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欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":929.565,"end":936.015,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅"},{"start":960.828,"end":986.465,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1067.629,"end":1067.792,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":1211.602,"end":1213.163,"text":"由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":1260.589,"end":1281.044,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":1320.503,"end":1321.695,"text":"谢谢观看,下次见!"},{"start":1576.028,"end":1576.958,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1649.309,"end":1678.507,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":1695.377,"end":1695.458,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1777.065,"end":1786.9,"text":"請報告出席人數報告全體會出席委員10人已足法定人數現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀上次會議意思如"},{"start":1787.577,"end":1812.96,"text":"立法院第十一屆第三會期經濟委員會第六次全體委員會議事錄時間114年3月31日星期一九十一分至十二時二十二分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員邱益穎等14人列席委員賴世保等12人列席人員經濟部常務次長賴建信農業部政務次長黃昭清內政部國土管理署副署長吳旺勝國家科學及技術委員會政務委員"},{"start":1813.621,"end":1827.659,"text":"政務副主任委員林法正等主席謝昭紀委員依附報告事項一 宣讀上次會議思路協定確定二 邀請經濟部部長 農業部部長內政部首長及國家科學及技術委員會首長"},{"start":1829.241,"end":1844.349,"text":"就2025年防洪抗旱計畫進行報告並被質詢經濟部常務次長賴建信及農業部政務次長黃昭金報告後委員邱映穎等16人提出質詢經由經濟部常務次長賴建信等及其答覆決定一登記委員"},{"start":1845.189,"end":1845.63,"text":"繼續進行報告事項請宣讀"},{"start":1867.625,"end":1882.319,"text":"邀请经济部部长及国家发展委员会主任委员就国际经贸情势变化提出协助国内传统产业及中小企业因应对策进行报告并被质询宣传并请经济部郭志辉部长报告"},{"start":1897.182,"end":1921.776,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好今天承蒙貴委員會邀請就國際經貿情勢變化提供協助國內傳統產業以及中小企業因應之對策進行報告受到美國關稅新政的影響我國傳統產業以及中小企業受到相當的通緝經濟部已與相關部會合作提出"},{"start":1922.622,"end":1933.082,"text":"因应美国关税我国出口供应链支持方案协助各影响业者因应调整敬请各位委员不吝视教"},{"start":1934.144,"end":1940.067,"text":"我國中小企業達167萬4千家佔全體企業家數98.9%提供超過900萬個工作機會傳統產製造業者共8.6萬家佔整體製造業比重超過9成就業人數206.6萬人總產值達11.24兆元"},{"start":1960.876,"end":1989.503,"text":"以金屬製品、機械設備、塑膠製品、食品等加速最多扮演經濟發展的重要角色美國川普總統於今年114年4月2日宣布包括我國在內全國多國實施對等關稅的政策4月5日起對約180個全球所有的國家所有的產品"},{"start":1990.623,"end":2013.033,"text":"除原有税率以外一律加征10%的关税自4月9日起上述180个国家中贸易逆差较多的57国除原有税率之外另外加征个别国家对等关税11%到50%不等的税率其中对我国科征税率高达32%"},{"start":2016.161,"end":2044.27,"text":"2013年台湾对美国出口达1114亿美元占总体出口的23%主要出口到美国的前30大商品占我国出口到美国总值的72%主要以自通讯电子零组件为主占对美国出口高达65.4%其余汽车零组件扣件"},{"start":2045.154,"end":2070.783,"text":"机械零件 自行车 运动器材 家具 塑胶制品等传统产业产品占5.8%经济部分析美国实施对等关税后初步评估相关产业受影响的情形如下一 钢铁金属 钢铝及其制品加征25%与其他对等国一致"},{"start":2072.199,"end":2094.919,"text":"可与其他对等国公平竞争扣件业受到的影响所工具水五金税率是32%预期短期获利会下滑二运输工具自行车加征32%整车影响有限零组件部分影响持续评估中汽车零组件"},{"start":2096.246,"end":2109.931,"text":"招增25%的关税为因产品验证书销约一年的作业时间短期能会继续出口中长期可能会影响国内的生产制造"},{"start":2111.078,"end":2134,"text":"三、机械的部分加征32%,中小型工具机以及产业机械将会受到影响。四、重机电及电线电缆加征30%,部分重机电因为需要取得认证,所以短期较难被取代。电线电缆以内销为主,影响程度将持续观察。"},{"start":2135.492,"end":2142.821,"text":"5、石化、塑膠以及橡膠加征32%石化及橡膠製品輸美的金額較少"},{"start":2144.564,"end":2171.137,"text":"評估影響有限塑膠製品部分產品對美國的依賴程度比較高預期影響競爭力六 運動器材以及家具加徵32%運動器材面臨到品牌客戶洽談成本的轉移壓力家具因為受到市場競爭的對手關稅較台灣高受影響的程度我們持續關注"},{"start":2172.518,"end":2189.806,"text":"七生技医药药材适用32%关税成本增加影响厂商的获利药品暂时豁免关税赏贷后续的评估八一般化学加征32%造成因为疏免的"},{"start":2190.566,"end":2219.64,"text":"比率比较低冲击有限染料或颜料主要外销市场是在东南亚加工后输出到美国可能会有间接影响化妆品的部分客户无法完全吸收提高关税之成本预期利润可能会被压缩9加电加增32%部分输美业者竞争对手为美国当地厂商影响产品的竞争力"},{"start":2221.363,"end":2238.831,"text":"我們應應的對策報告如下台灣已經組成談判小組由行政院副院長鄭麗君女士領軍包含成員包含國安會經貿談判辦公室行政院相關部會以及學界"},{"start":2240.923,"end":2262.689,"text":"業界談判關稅可以比照美加墨自貿協定從台美雙方的零關稅開始談起全力爭取改善對等關稅且擴大對美採購以降低貿易逆差行政院已經完成盤點對農工、石油、天然氣等產品的大量採購計畫"},{"start":2264.689,"end":2286.878,"text":"為因應針對美國客戶終止訂單或展延訂單交期國內傳統產業或中小企業業者短期內將有資金周轉的困境經濟部將與金管會合作透過銀行工會呼籲協調各銀行提供受影響業者貸款本金展延暫不緊縮銀根"},{"start":2290.526,"end":2312.796,"text":"防止業者因資金周轉不靈而影響持續的經營此外行政院於今年的4月4日召開記者會提出因應美國關稅我國出口供應鏈支持方案整合跨部會支援擬定九大面向二十項措施投入總經費880億元全力讓國家經濟穩定產業發展穩定國人生活安心"},{"start":2319.215,"end":2334.418,"text":"其中經濟部共投入411元提供金融支持提升產業競爭力開拓多元市場等三大面向共四項支持措施協助美國加徵關稅受影響業者"},{"start":2335.459,"end":2360.749,"text":"其重点如下1.外销贷款优惠保证加码加码60亿元针对多元布局市场外销订单提供外销贷款优惠信用保证降低业者采购原料生产以及出口周转金的负担2.中小微企业贷款加码加码50亿元提供周转性支出及购买机器设备的贷款"},{"start":2361.872,"end":2388.873,"text":"并搭配利息补贴以及信用保证三补助研发转型加码200亿元鼓励企业技术升级打造更高规格的新产品布局国际多元市场减少对单一市场的依赖四争取海外订单加码100亿补助企业海外新设展示中心花负"},{"start":2391.495,"end":2419.333,"text":"發貨倉庫等實體據點或代理經銷商等協助企業拓展國際市場的佈局此外為因應美國加徵關稅所帶來的重大挑戰經濟部在短期內將採取多項因應措施包括鼓勵國內上市公司上市櫃公司買回庫藏股對比較基優的公司呼籲他們的懂事"},{"start":2421.985,"end":2427.829,"text":"監視經理人能夠買回自己的自己家公司的股票那麼"},{"start":2430.612,"end":2455.164,"text":"引導已經在美國投資的業者以代工方式支援國內品牌廠商並促成民間成立大型的貿易商整合訂單後分配與中小為企業在中長期方面將聯合海外台商在當地保稅園區代工生產台灣品牌的產品推動代工廠與品牌商共同開拓新進"},{"start":2456.545,"end":2473.053,"text":"先进工业国家的市场同时培育数位与AI应用人才协助产业升级转型经济部非常重视传统产业以及中小企业发展所面临的问题"},{"start":2474.601,"end":2500.046,"text":"針對美國加徵關稅的部分行政院已推動因應美國關稅我國出口供應鏈支持方案整合跨部會資源提出加碼的支持措施協助受影響產業因應相關支持措施辦法將於今年的4月14日之前對外公布並對各個產業需求提供客製化的需求"},{"start":2500.986,"end":2517.347,"text":"協助經濟部已設立免付費諮詢專線並設立網頁專區供業者查詢運用也提供馬上辦中心來解決業者在需求速度上面的問題那麼"},{"start":2521.209,"end":2550.989,"text":"我们这个政府也将持续召开产业座谈会,倾听业界的心声与需求,随时解决问题,让政策更符合需求。此外,经济部将从今年推动中小为企业多元振兴发展计划,投入116亿元经费,以数位转型、净零转型、通路发展等策略,以及30人以下数位能力建构与普惠贷款。"},{"start":2551.79,"end":2576.59,"text":"租稅優惠 為員工加薪納入信保審核機制等配套協助提升中小微企業的生產力並減輕基本工資調整的衝擊以上報告敬請各位委員指正視教敬祝各位委員身體健康 諸事順利謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請國發會我們劉靜清主委報告"},{"start":2589.25,"end":2597.341,"text":"主席、各位委員及與會的先進今天榮幸承蒙貴會邀請就協助傳統產業及中小企業因應國際貿易情勢提出報告"},{"start":2604.944,"end":2611.11,"text":"首先說明我們當前的國際經貿情勢自從2025年4月2號美國宣布對等關稅之後主要的國家將會針對貿易的壁壘所產生的經濟效率的減低是一個"},{"start":2623.28,"end":2632.687,"text":"探討的事實那在世界貿易組織也因為這樣的關係他們認為在2025年全球的貿易量將由成長3.2%轉為衰退1%那國際貨幣基金組織也指出美國加徵關稅將會對全球經濟造成一定的風險那這些風險都是我們現在必須去面對克服的地方那隨著這個不確定性"},{"start":2649.699,"end":2666.892,"text":"整個過程裡面大家都在進入一個協商期主要是國內的貿易主要採用是FOB、CIF為主在服務一部分的DDP及自由品牌那目前來講不論是走FOB模式或者是CIF模式"},{"start":2667.732,"end":2684.972,"text":"FOB就是我們的貨品送到我們的港口CIF是到美國的港口這兩種模式都不負責通關跟繳付關稅是由客戶繳付那現在這些廠商必須跟客戶釐清是不是客戶願意繳這個關稅否則的話貨到了"},{"start":2687.495,"end":2707.363,"text":"或出去之後會有一些將來會有些爭議那但是呢這個部分呢美國有個寬限期就是在4月5號美國時間凌晨送出去的凌晨之前送出去的貨在5月27號能夠抵達在這個部分這個期間是一個寬限期還是可以沿用這個現有的稅率那"},{"start":2710.064,"end":2728.455,"text":"另外呢DDP的部分現在也受到影響DDP是會由台灣的廠商來清關繳付關稅送到客戶的hub艙但是到了這段期間客戶願不願意付也是一個困難所以現在都進入協商期所以多數的事情還在一個不確定的狀態下我們會持續的觀察這個不確定的狀況下的短暫影響在這個過程中我想在這個機會也說明一下全球在2024年"},{"start":2738.38,"end":2765.395,"text":"所有的國家進口的貨品大概是24.7兆美元美國佔了3.3兆也就是佔了13.34%換句話說美國以外也有世界這個世界還佔有了86.66%的進口額度貨品進口額度也就是說我們還有很多大的市場值得我們去探索值得我們去行銷以及公約這個市場"},{"start":2766.772,"end":2785.346,"text":"那所以呢政府也會在這個兩個角度來協助所有的廠商這在短期的部分我想郭部長剛才已經提已經報告過了在這個工業部分經濟部有700億的措施那我這邊就補充在農業的部分我們也有一個六大措施主要是"},{"start":2787.082,"end":2809.301,"text":"有180億的支持是農業部主政的就是第一個對農業貸款的利息加碼的金融支持也同時提升產業競爭力所以農業部會強化在外銷冷鏈系統加速產業的價值化然後盡快取得國內外的標章認證協助轉進其他市場再來是開拓多元市場擴大國內的行銷活動擴大海外的行銷活動"},{"start":2812.203,"end":2832.769,"text":"整個部會合起來總共有九大面向、二十項措施在服務熱線上有190條這個短期的結束之後我們另外會針對中長期協助產業的發展跟轉型我們會掌握六大趨勢的改變然後以三個大的方向來協助產業進行中長期的轉型"},{"start":2836.05,"end":2852.278,"text":"第一個趨勢的改變是在於供應鏈重組將會成為一個重要的方向那這裡面的方向有機會有機會那什麼樣的機會呢舉個例子多數台商在中國跟越南或者是這個"},{"start":2854.67,"end":2876.321,"text":"泰國為主但這個過程裡面呢其實如果我們每個國家有不同的稅負所以加起來的總稅率來看或是總成本的增加來看其實中國是增加了百分之九十幾越南增加了百分之八十幾台灣大概在五十左右那這個泰國大概在五十六左右那比較下來以比較利益來講呢台灣是最低的"},{"start":2876.881,"end":2902.959,"text":"那第二個部分呢建廠需要時間建廠需要時間在短期的因應下呢最快的方式是產能的移動這個產能的移動呢就是利用現有的廠房去做供應鏈的重組那以台灣為最後的組裝地出去是最便宜的喔所以呢相較之下呢也有很多的廠商希望利用這個機會在短期內來解決這個問題中長期再看其他的供應鏈的變動以及現在的政策變化"},{"start":2904.38,"end":2926.674,"text":"我們也希望協助廠商掌握現在的供應鏈重組商機再創我們的商業機會另外在飛鴻供應鏈裡面在這段期間也是逐步在形成在早一點的時間AI供應鏈開始要進入飛鴻化的時候光模組的通訊從中國市場移到台灣來讓台灣的廠商有一個很好的商機另外在"},{"start":2928.275,"end":2953.015,"text":"這個在當時呢COVID-19的時候呢我們推動的跟流台灣也也回來的很多的廠商那再來就是在現在半導體半導體的封裝出現了白名單這個白名單也讓我們台灣增加了很多的商業機會我們認為在未來的廢紅供應鏈的商機會越來越多越來越多隨著兩個集團產生衝突之後那另外一部分呢台商必須去提升我們的競爭力那競爭力的發展"},{"start":2955.517,"end":2975.687,"text":"我們會協助再來是研發創新轉型的這個部分還有新市場的開拓因為就沉入我們剛才報告的全球進口市場還有86.66%在海外在其他的國家那我們希望的協助廠商往這裡走那我們因此推出三個比較大的方向第一個是強化產業優勢"},{"start":2977.228,"end":2991.54,"text":"第二個是激勵投資與創新第三個部分是優化投資環境那這幾個部分呢都會我們會強化在信貸物產業的策略產業裡面去更加的強化以AI為核心的發展然後呢帶動半導體帶動這個"},{"start":2995.171,"end":3022.726,"text":"这个军工产业带动次世代的通信带动我们的爱控带动整体的AI产业那同时呢我们会加速在细光子量子运算跟自主机器人等新的技术里面持续的去发展取得全球领先的地位那第二个部分我们协助这个传统产业在中小微的产业的发展那我们这个部分呢我们会做几件事情第一个是协助强化通路这个研发"},{"start":3023.286,"end":3051.922,"text":"以工具機來講工具機這幾年新的通路主要是在印度跟土耳其那我們希望透過替代市場來取代美國以外的市場那取代美國市場那能夠協助這些廠商能夠盡快的去掌握商機去彌補這個數字那這個部分需要比較強的這個銷售能力尤其是全通路的發展那另外我們透過AI協助這個廠商把自己的效率化跟成本下降"},{"start":3052.862,"end":3070.54,"text":"那再來這幾年會形成成熟期的產業他需要透過規模化跟經濟化降低他的成本那我們除了我們剛才除了我們在研發的協助之外我們也希望能夠協助產業進行控股的產生那我們也會修訂這個企業併購法來這個鼓勵這個"},{"start":3074.537,"end":3100.436,"text":"控股產業的產生讓大家可以集結起來以後變成較具規模優勢去競爭那另外我們也推動產業再造基金協助傳統企業的轉型那同時我們也推動了中小微企業的多元振興方案我們希望透過中小企業振興方案來協助中小微企業的再次的轉型發展那另外我們也會利用這個機會推動產業再次轉型"},{"start":3103.078,"end":3123.193,"text":"那台灣的產業需要再次轉型往高附加價值產業走或者是往高效率的方向走那我們希望透過價值鏈的改變去讓往差異化的價值跟經濟規模降低成本的角度提升效率的方式讓自己的資本競爭更強烈"},{"start":3124.894,"end":3133.402,"text":"另外在資助創新創業的部分我們也會大量的提供老創產生新創也協助青年創業我們希望2027年能達到1500億的資金投入每年資金投入協助這個產業的發展"},{"start":3141.97,"end":3162.165,"text":"至於在激勵投資與創新的部分,我們除了產障條例的修正,我們增加企業投入AI跟綠能的部分能夠有大幅的改善之外,國發基金也推動了七大百億基金,希望透過主題式的投資帶動整個社會青年的發展。"},{"start":3162.705,"end":3170.971,"text":"那這個7個百億分別是機器人的基金預計今年第三季啟動AI新創基金我們已經啟動了那在這個智慧醫療新創基金也開始受理了綠色成長基金會在今年第二季我們希望這幾個大的基金去帶動那之後呢我們也會在六都之外提供我們這個創業100的計畫我們希望給予補助提升100家以上的企業"},{"start":3190.445,"end":3212.564,"text":"在这个六都地区我们提供青年创业100我们希望提升青年创业100我们给予青年更多的补助给年轻人更多的创业机会来利用这个来发展自己的未来那另外我们会透过这个促参造园投资方案扩大国内的需求刺激国内的景气发展然后扩大我们的公共建设的发展"},{"start":3213.902,"end":3229.975,"text":"那在用化投資環境部分呢我們會擴大我們這個投資台灣三大方案第一個範圍的擴大第二個第二個這個補助範圍也跟著擴大喔那我們在國內來講過去土地是最貴的我們現在由經濟部提供產業園區然後呢提供"},{"start":3233.938,"end":3253.318,"text":"像我們有一個園區我們目前會給到三年的這個免租金那之後呢大家以租代買的話呢成本建設成本會更低那我們在生產五要素我們也會去特別的強化那我們對於這個投資回台的利息補助我們也編列了更大的預算兩倍以上的預算擴大來支持"},{"start":3255.12,"end":3272.45,"text":"另外我們會強力的推動六大區域的產業發展透過均衡台灣以科學園區跟產業園區帶動台灣六大區域的發展尤其是南北創矽谷跟中部的智慧新核心還有農業智慧化我們會強力的推動讓台灣的產業跟內需更加的擴大透過這幾個方案我想"},{"start":3278.959,"end":3294.233,"text":"面對中長期而言政府也會很積極的去協助大家去發展那我想也表達美國之外也很美 美國之外有世界那誠如我之前講的有86.6%的進口市場在美國以外那我們面對問題才能解決問題但是真正的問題在問題的背後不是表面的問題但我們會協助企業解決問題背後的問題然後呢"},{"start":3303.221,"end":3318.481,"text":"以問題背後的問題作為核心來進行轉型我們希望透過這樣的轉型能讓台灣進到第二層次的再次的進化讓我們的掌握到二次供應鏈重組也掌握到廢紅供應鏈的商機發展"},{"start":3319.582,"end":3331.781,"text":"也透過研發強化我們整體的產品跟商業模式還有流程的能力然後讓我們再次轉型成功讓我們產業更具韌性以上報告敬請不認指教謝謝"},{"start":3334.599,"end":3352.046,"text":"谢谢现在进行询答委员询答前主席袁立作以下宣告每位委员发言时间本会委员六分钟必要时得延长两分钟非本会委员五分钟上午十点三十分截止发言登记首先请邱毅英委员做询答"},{"start":3363.695,"end":3389.103,"text":"謝謝主席我是不是請一下部長跟國發會主委好了國部長 劉主委委員早部長早 主委早這個我看得出兩位的面相不太好看"},{"start":3390.91,"end":3416.185,"text":"這個對整體的經濟發展應該是憂心忡忡對國際的局勢應該是憂心忡忡台股在前天開盤就跌了2000多點我剛剛一路一直在看著今天的台股股市雖然國安基金進場了但是現在看起來狀況也不是太樂觀現在好像也下跌300多點這個剛剛部長跟主委兩位的報告"},{"start":3417.455,"end":3444.909,"text":"我還是想要直接針對問題請教其實對於川普總統的這樣的一個關稅政策在全球引發了軒然大波那當然他在今天中午4月9號美國的時間中午以後才會美國時間才要開始正式來實施我想請教兩位台灣的經濟大概掌握在經濟部跟國發會的手上你們怎麼看"},{"start":3446.138,"end":3472.049,"text":"到底這一波對於台灣的各式各樣的產業或者是說全球現在大家急著要去跟美國政府談你們的評估能夠談出什麼東西出來對台灣來說台灣有些什麼樣的優勢或者是台灣能夠怎麼樣從這個困境裡頭逃脫兩位誰可以回答"},{"start":3476.028,"end":3499.703,"text":"跟委員報告我的看法台灣不論是全球來講所有的AI Server90%都在台灣廠商的手上晶片也在我們的手上但是我們的客戶其實都是美國公司所以我們跟美國的廠商是一個百分之百很審密的結合在一起的一個供應鏈"},{"start":3500.643,"end":3524.752,"text":"那這個供應鏈呢 其實我們彼此是互惠的所以美國廠商其實也很幫台灣在講話那我們也積極在溝通因為在這個供應鏈的替代過程中不會那麼快速不會那麼快速所以呢 我們是有一定的優勢去談第二個 我們過去台灣跟美國建立很好的關係那這個關係也讓我們有比較好的管道在溝通中"},{"start":3525.612,"end":3540.805,"text":"主委我們當然知道台灣過去跟美國建立很好的關係但是現在在野黨的批評就是說你們一直講跟美國建立很好的關係可是我們被課徵高的關稅我相信待會來的在野黨的委員一定是這樣問你的"},{"start":3542.226,"end":3558.565,"text":"所以你講說台美關係很好但是我們卻被課徵高的關稅政府要怎麼樣的解釋要怎麼樣的自圓其說或者是說您可以告訴大家我們這一次派去要跟人家談判要去跟美國政府談"},{"start":3560.066,"end":3588.565,"text":"真的除了台美關係良好之外我們還有什麼東西可以拿出來跟人家談減少台灣在整體這個關稅上面的損失這兩件事情我第一個先說明一下因為我在外美商待過很久他在處理這種事情上面他會有一個通則先走所以這一次的關稅是用一個公式以逆差為核心的公式算出來的那其實這是一個全球的標準不會是針對誰或誰"},{"start":3590.146,"end":3590.748,"text":"但是這個標準出來以後 基本上他會開始有一些可談判的空間"},{"start":3595.652,"end":3622.36,"text":"所以這是美國一貫的做法那我們接下來就是利用這個時間開始進入談判的空間只是就媒體報導川普自己講有超過60個國家在排隊了那我們應該會在比較優先的位置我個人的判斷那我們的籌碼其實就我了解我們有做很多的準備只是談判的籌碼是不可能公告出來影響到談判的結果那我這個時候我也呼籲國人其實我們國家遇到困難"},{"start":3623.501,"end":3641.242,"text":"不要再扯後退我們應該一起面對問題如果有建設性的意見應該可以提出來而不是一直扯大家在努力的後退這是我想順便也提主委您的這個看法我是完全同意我問一個比較我不曉得您可不可以回答就是我們的談判代表出發了沒"},{"start":3645.246,"end":3663.226,"text":"這個不在我的層次裡面我接下來還是問一下總統大概有五大指示所以如果對照您剛剛的說法您對於總統的這五大指示你覺得台灣能不能做得到"},{"start":3665.657,"end":3692.071,"text":"總統做事的決心這個不會是只有總統做事的決心這個關乎到兩國之間的這種互相信任跟我們整體的經貿談判的力道跟這個經驗度你單單最後一個要解決美方長期關切的這個洗產地的問題台灣能不能做得到洗產地的問題其實我們現在有一連串的措施正在進行查核中我們很有信心"},{"start":3692.91,"end":3713.375,"text":"好那我要請教一下你們就是說我們在對於跟美國之間的這一些採購你們是不是已經盤點完了是的都盤點完了已經盤點完了所以你覺得在能源的談判上面其實台灣是還有很多的利多可以釋出是這樣嗎沒錯我想昨天的媒體美國的媒體也有露出來這件事情對於台灣產業的衝擊呢比如說美國對台灣執行高的關稅"},{"start":3721.337,"end":3750.126,"text":"台灣現在說要對美國實行零關稅那未來台灣會不會追隨美國去跟中國科徵比較高的關稅這是幾大問題嘛那我們有很多的廠商其實他的工廠是設在中國他要賣美國他從中國出口要賣去美國已經面臨到很高的關稅了台灣還要再針對他再科徵高的關稅您覺得台灣的廠商受不受得了"},{"start":3751.366,"end":3773.999,"text":"我想一個比較明確的方向已經出現了就是美國現在有可能會對中國課更高的關稅所以我們現在我們的這個三大方案裡面有一個跟流台灣方案我們希望提醒廠商不如回自己的家鄉因為台商的主要生產基地的稅都包於台灣"},{"start":3774.039,"end":3787.952,"text":"我當然知道啊 跟流台灣方案其實我們喊很多年這幾年其實有很多廠商已經回來我們現在會更大的強化但是現在面臨到馬上面臨到就是這個關稅的問題他貨出不出的去啊他貨有可能都已經做好了但是這個關稅這麼高這個稅額是誰要付"},{"start":3792.358,"end":3806.764,"text":"是對方要付呢還是生產方要付呢還是大家各付一半呢這個我相信這個業者跟這個跟他的客戶之間應該有在談談成怎麼樣不知道那我們現在說叫他跟留台灣或者是叫他把廠移回來台灣移回來台灣也沒那麼簡單第一個他在台灣要重新找到可以設廠的土地也蠻困難的"},{"start":3817.189,"end":3834.658,"text":"第二個他馬上面臨到就是這個高額的關稅科徵的問題所以對於廠商來講他現在是雪上加霜我前兩天去拜訪了高雄的螺絲工會螺絲業者他們其實現在面臨到一個困難就是說他賣也不是不賣也不是那現在美國對中國科徵這麼高的關稅"},{"start":3840.609,"end":3860.554,"text":"那有可能美國就完全不跟中國買那未來中國的貨也不賣去美國了他直接賣到歐洲去那美國需要的貨跟誰買可能跟台灣的業者買可是台灣的業者要面臨到這麼高的關稅對於台灣的業者來說就是我剛才說的要賣也要死沒買也要死"},{"start":3866.001,"end":3872.952,"text":"買到買都要料很多錢那剛剛你們講的就是說不要說你們啦就我們政府提到了880億的這個"},{"start":3876.72,"end":3885.828,"text":"這個金額這個叫做什麼優惠嗎或者是補助880億老實講我覺得是太少那你這個880億要怎麼樣去對有需要的業者補貼能夠補貼他多少比如說你的加速投資利息補貼現在是三年補貼0.7%的這個業者"},{"start":3901.977,"end":3925.765,"text":"有沒有可能把它擴大那這880億如果很快就用完了那未來還有沒有錢可以再增加還有沒有額度可以再增加這點我想很多的業者很想問這個我們會滾動式的調整我們也其實有不停的在收集現在我們也每天在收集從工會收集是你們現在要滾動式調整我就問你一個最關鍵的問題錢在哪裡"},{"start":3928.936,"end":3935.396,"text":"你在立法院你們的這個我們行政院的預算被砍成這樣錢在哪裡就還是需要立法院的支持"},{"start":3936.734,"end":3961.159,"text":"那也希望立法院大院能夠支持我們這個扶植臺灣產業的特別那您覺得立法院可不可以可不可能支持到補貼到2000億左右這個在野黨的主席說880億不夠要增加到2000億我們也希望越多越好啦但是我們還是希望大家能夠如果大家一條心支持的話這也是很重要的"},{"start":3962.574,"end":3989.833,"text":"我想大家一條心非常關心台灣的產業的未來面對到這樣的一個關稅的衝擊其實我想這個部長也很希望趕快到各地區去了解這些業者的心聲包括這個螺絲工會我想您剛剛講的幾個大產業就我們的了解螺絲工會其實就面臨到最大最巨大的第一線的衝擊螺絲跟石化"},{"start":3991.213,"end":4008.805,"text":"這部長那現在大家在立法院這邊你們大概在研擬對策啦有沒有可能直接下鄉去跟業者做面對面的溝通直接了解他們的需求不要說我們畫了很多的大餅我們政策寫得很漂亮"},{"start":4009.943,"end":4034.889,"text":"可是其實沒有對症下藥我想我們這個座談經濟部已經非常多次了所以我們現在啟動馬上辦中心也就是讓業者直接到我們的園區管理局我們有66個園區管理局跟我們中小企業處有馬上辦中心我們每一家客戶的狀況會不一樣所以我們不用那個大的框架來告訴他們而是每一個客戶你有什麼問題"},{"start":4036.209,"end":4053.332,"text":"我們來協商幫他解決那我在台北有一個顧問團我們在台北本部有個顧問團也就是說當地沒有辦法回答我們已經設定的這個框架問題的時候送回來台北我要求一天就給他回應這個是我們目前的做法"},{"start":4055.156,"end":4081.874,"text":"部長我想這個問題其實牽扯到還非常的長遠今天只是剛開始當然股市跌了三天四天了但是整體的考驗整體的狀態今天才剛開始我覺得我們大概全民上下都應該責無旁貸密切觀察然後隨時在政策上面能夠對於我們的業者能夠有什麼樣的照顧對於我們的產業能夠有什麼樣的扶植我們都應該隨時滾動式提出"},{"start":4084.079,"end":4102.452,"text":"具體的方案出來好不好 是的 謝謝好 謝謝在邱志偉委員進行詢答前我們先確定議事錄上次會議議事錄 議事錄是否有錯誤沒有 那我們議事錄確定現在請邱志偉委員做詢答好 謝謝主席 有請進一步郭部長 國會劉主委郭部長 劉主委"},{"start":4119.181,"end":4138.768,"text":"委員長 這個碰到是前所未有的一個挑戰那當然要用非常的手段 880億我就料離從寬 欲離從嚴880億你是用特別預算 是用特別預算嗎 是特別預算你要趕快編列 編列之後趕快送來立法院 趕快通過那我覺得880億還不過這個後續的延續不會說是一個月兩個月 可能會影響到一兩年"},{"start":4145.891,"end":4166.141,"text":"所以我覺得這個如果採用許可的話我覺得應該寬裂寬裂第一個能夠解決更多問題第二個能夠讓所有的業界都能夠安心所以我目標是應該只有兩千億你即便只有兩千億還不能完全解決問題因為受到影響所有的製造業所以我覺得這部分應該這統合是由誰來統合這預算統合是由誰來統合"},{"start":4175.538,"end":4200.627,"text":"預算局有 這個經濟部的部分是我們自己在負責那經濟部你才400多億沒有 這個是第一階段報告委員這是第一階段我是覺得這個趕快把特別預算把它再寬裂再多一點然後最快的速度來送到立法院是 這個我們希望大院能夠支持另外 你說在六幾在幾個這個園區管理局是馬上辦中心啊我覺得應該下放給各地方政府"},{"start":4201.167,"end":4212.499,"text":"每一個,特別是中南部很多傳統產業,他不會去找服務中心,他會找縣市政府日本政府24%的稅率,我們是30年,他24,他馬上成立1000個諮詢的窗口,1000個在全國"},{"start":4224.537,"end":4245.402,"text":"我是覺得每一個這個產業都碰到問題不一樣譬如說這個金屬扣件 比如說鋼鐵 比如說鎖工具昨天也請這個邱球會邱署長立刻跟這個金屬扣件特別是集中在高雄 在岡山特別跟工會做一個比較深度的會談 深度的討論了解聽聽他們的問題 聽聽他們的建議然後拒絕馬上建級旅局去執行"},{"start":4252.36,"end":4279.595,"text":"不只是金屬構建包括你今天提了很多的手工具石化、塑膠、橡膠、中基電、電線、電纜這些都有工會應該一個禮拜之內立刻啟動跟所有工會的相關的諮詢跟討論不能再等了因為你要最短時間之內了解問題你才能提出有效有效率、有效果的解決方案所以你叫那個什麼服務中心我告訴你這個好過太壞"},{"start":4281.343,"end":4310.174,"text":"報告委員您剛所說明的這一部分我們都有在進行我們只是說對那些比較沒有參加工會的這些業者還是有很多人沒有參加工會我們要看到他所以我們請他們就是說我們直接去拜訪他們或者他們很急的可以馬上到我們馬上辦中心我們是全面在處理這些事情這兩天啊我們民意代表變成一個窗口"},{"start":4311.054,"end":4339.811,"text":"變成窗口 然後我再把這些相關的資訊再轉傳給您這個我沒想到我的這個手機號令這麼快一電話講不完 講不完所以代表說你們的窗口還見得不夠普遍另外 談判小組已經成立 對不對是的 談判小組 那經濟部有代表 對不對國安會 談判辦 然後這個學界 業界也有代表學界 業界也有代表 對不對國安會也有代表"},{"start":4341.65,"end":4369.107,"text":"代表是由行政院來處理對啦我這邊你的報告寫的學界業界都有代表嘛對越早去跟美國談判他這個搶到時間的先機嘛你有政府也講 越快來講好過越好嘛我們有沒有在他們的list裡面有有有這個有有在list裡面我們是在這個前面的排我們的ranking是在前面我看媒體報導是日本跟韓南韓他們是優先來"},{"start":4371.112,"end":4400.545,"text":"對不對那台灣呢台灣排序在多少我們都實際在運作啦這個目前在談判的過程很抱歉沒有辦法在這裡跟您報告所以我要確定說我們這個談判小組已經成立了隨時可以上路對不對然後我們相關的副案都已經準備好了然後只要美國那邊有同意要跟我們談我們立刻就啟動是不是這樣子是所以我覺得這部分很怪"},{"start":4401.195,"end":4429.538,"text":"加強對美國的這個這個談判的這個請求跟要求啊即刻啊 最快的時刻跟 爭取跟以前啊 那個蔡總統跟川普還可以通上電話我們也要朝向這個努力看能不能讓賴總統跟川普通上電話不是 笑我啊 這個我給你的建議你要跟 跟這個跟總統跟官會來建議啊那個 主委"},{"start":4433.649,"end":4453.369,"text":"這個委員的建議我們會去傳達所以為什麼4月5號180個國家他普遍加徵10%然後接著針對58個國家要特別稅率又加徵到10%到50%對不對台灣是34那是偏高了32"},{"start":4455.325,"end":4468.573,"text":"中國是34% 也有50%的為什麼會有10%到50%的差別最主要是看它的雙邊貿易的這個逆差順差的這個額度跟規模"},{"start":4470.066,"end":4490.992,"text":"台灣對美國的這個順差台灣對美國的出口以2024來看是出口111.14億美國進口是460億所以我們貿易的順差將近800億所以這貿易的順差就最主要是它作為這個柯真理額外關稅的對等關稅的主要原因"},{"start":4491.932,"end":4515.82,"text":"所以我們怎麼樣讓這個貿易就從美國的這個進口能夠增加對美國的出口市場能夠做一些調整做轉移所以這就牽涉到匯率政策前行政院副院長那個施俊錫副院長他也提出這匯率政策可能是一個選項這個相關財經部會有沒有針對這部分去思考用匯率政策"},{"start":4517.34,"end":4541.415,"text":"目前是所有的政策都有被思考過就我了解了那很多政策的訂定都有很多多角面的思考多構面的思考我想應該會在適當的時機做出適當的政策出來這個經濟議題是很科學的我不希望太多太多模糊或者抽象的回答這個您贊不贊成用匯率方式來處理"},{"start":4545.812,"end":4561.061,"text":"這種事情喔 我講實話喔 這種東西是沒辦法明著去講的因為會進入匯率超重國家的清單 會造成我們更大的損失所以在這個部分我是沒有辦法回答好 那回過頭來再請教一下郭部長這個對美採購 農 工 國防產業 對不對"},{"start":4566.104,"end":4580.879,"text":"農業是農業不管工是歸你管對不對是天然氣也歸你管所以我們相關的對每家鄉採購的金額品項是不是都已經確定了我們盡量在這個收集啦我們可以向美國這個購買的這個品項"},{"start":4583.803,"end":4608.3,"text":"跟內容這個曾經在一個月前我就質詢過也諮詢過農業部 也諮詢過經濟部說你們相關的對美加強採購的品項要趕快列出來金額規模也要趕快雖然時間之內讓美國知道說我們雙邊的貿易不會那麼大的失衡對美國的貿易順差不會那麼多你現在都準備好了嗎有 都準備"},{"start":4609.898,"end":4624.896,"text":"都有準備 我希望說有準備要趕快要上路要趕快去想方式法跟美國有任何窗口可以能夠有更多的接觸跟討論報告委員 我們的這個方向都跟委員所這個"},{"start":4626.738,"end":4648.61,"text":"指導的方向是一樣的至於說進度的部分我們這個前三部隊在美國的部隊也都一直在安排進入要談判的這個時間只是說這一部分很難在這個地方跟你做詳細的報告聽您跟劉主委的這個說明我大概可以了解我們是政府是有準備的只是等適當時機美國那邊願意跟我們談的時候我們馬上就啟動談判是的然後另外對受衝擊的部分我剛剛還是要強調"},{"start":4656.815,"end":4675.476,"text":"這個預算規模還是不夠我覺得要寬列然後要趕快再通過而且你要分階段實施然後把各受衝擊的產業的priority先把它列出來最嚴重的產業你要有更多的補助更多的協助那相對的你要把它做一些分級"},{"start":4676.842,"end":4701.252,"text":"所以賴總統提出這五項做法零關稅談判、擴大利潤採購、拖高利潤投資、排除非關稅障礙我問你請教一下什麼叫排除非關稅障礙排除非關稅障礙就好像我們過去有一些譬如說對美豬美牛我們要特別要highlight這個來源這點我們馬上可以做到嗎"},{"start":4703.491,"end":4730.068,"text":"這點我們馬上可以知道 這個要溝通這個要溝通啦 這是五六制法我們要由農業部再溝通然後農業部的談判代表會跟美國也溝通解釋我們台灣的這個情形讓對方能夠了解雖然他們認為這個是非關稅傷害的部分但是我們認為應該要多溝通另外擴大對美投資也是經濟部主管的義務嗎"},{"start":4731.772,"end":4748.327,"text":"五大做法裡面也是擴大對美投資大部分是那有沒有什麼具體的投資計畫有計畫有沒有具體的具體的部分我們現在在就是這個是談判的一部分我們希望能夠落實這個我們所提的計畫"},{"start":4749.608,"end":4764.159,"text":"有談判單位他們能夠我這麼評估這五項做法賴總統提出非常方向正確但是你要具體落實才會有政策效果啊是譬如說譬如說我們現在在進行這個境外關內的這樣的一個台灣園區的設置在美國這樣子"},{"start":4768.823,"end":4784.329,"text":"但是一個園區設置到好廠商進駐大概也要四五年所以這個不是解決目前的問題所以我們現在解決就是目前應該怎麼做未來怎麼做這個我們都有詳細的計畫部長跟主委你們兩位是最重要的財經內閣"},{"start":4786.215,"end":4799.859,"text":"那對內也很重要,對內怎麼樣把相關所有衝擊產業把它有穩定下來,有信心能夠持續獲利,持續有序成長對外,再包括你們有國貿署,對外你們有談判辦"},{"start":4803.175,"end":4821.125,"text":"這個國安會也是主管所有財經部會的統籌對外也是非常重要對外很急迫就是怎麼樣跟美國政府最短時間之內取得這個協商或是談判的契機這點很重要但是在此之前你們相關準備我再確定一下是不是都準備好了"},{"start":4823.145,"end":4851.047,"text":"跟你說明一下我們的確有準備就是不只是您講的投資包括採購我們的確是準備了只是這個是因為是我們的談判籌碼我們就沒辦法在這裡談但是我很肯定我們有這是一個國家的挑戰也許你可以說是危機危機就是一個轉機是一個挑戰是一個嚴峻的挑戰但是你有準備一定可以客戶挑戰"},{"start":4852.213,"end":4863.942,"text":"而且要建基底基具體快速迅速的落實有效率落實這政策才能到位一起努力謝謝好謝謝我們現在請楊瓊英委員做詢答主席好"},{"start":4879.195,"end":4883.988,"text":"陽泉發言 邀請部長跟國防會主委郭部長 劉主委"},{"start":4892.297,"end":4918.722,"text":"兩位好我們一起加油那首先要請教部長全民關注的這個關稅應對在4月3號美國總統川普他宣布了加徵我們32%的對等關稅時那首先請問政府有沒有事先先前評估到會這麼高有沒有從美方得到相關的資訊有沒有提早"},{"start":4920.959,"end":4940.798,"text":"預備到因應關稅的措施請做說明報告委員我想這一部分我們可以 主委說明委員報告我們當時設了很多版本最高的版本其實我們是到35%最高的版本是35%對對對我們當時有好幾個版本那有比較好的有比較弱的但是"},{"start":4941.298,"end":4950.724,"text":"但是他這次的工資你比較好的你認為你們的很多版本最高35最低是多少我25最低是10最低是10我們都有版本在應變是是是那請教"},{"start":4955.663,"end":4975.305,"text":"您所謂的最高35%到最低的10%因為我們看到在4月1號執政黨的這個黨團總召柯總召他不只鐵口直言說美國只會收10%更說是國安會議的總結 他參加 他也看到"},{"start":4976.326,"end":4991.134,"text":"所以換句話說 如果照剛剛劉主委所說的在川普這個宣布前 我們政府就已經有預估是10%是最底線 是最輕的那最高是35% 是不是如此"},{"start":4991.994,"end":5016.106,"text":"是不是如此我們的評估當然是根據各種不同的情境那我們也曾經評估到高標是35所以換句話說對這很好要事先評估是很好所以本校要請教因為宣布的時候落差那麼大跟柯總召落差那麼大所以本校要請教所以當時柯總召說的"},{"start":5017.472,"end":5045.231,"text":"也是你們的研判之內報告委員柯總召不代表行政院好 這句話我們聽到了柯總召不代表行政院那同時我要請教那880億的方案是當時就有的方案還是事後得到32%的加徵才開始討論又是以什麼為基準呢請做說明"},{"start":5045.971,"end":5065.576,"text":"我們當然是事後事到32%以後我們趕快再調整加碼放大加碼出來第一個階段我們認為880億是不是可以來滿足這個紓困的方案因為我們大概整個加起來"},{"start":5066.836,"end":5080.071,"text":"我們大概看一下就是說受到影響的可能就是傳統產業跟中小微企業那在那個電子伺服器的部分高科技的產品可能影響不大這個是我們都確認過了"},{"start":5081.553,"end":5104.001,"text":"所以我們880億就是針對中小微企業跟這個傳產以這個為主但這是第一階段如果這個談判出來的結果以後如果我們能夠快速談判達到一個好的結果大概我們預估880億應該可以滿足這樣的一個需求如果我們談判的結果不如我們的預期那麼當然這個金額會加大"},{"start":5105.421,"end":5124.134,"text":"好 這個就是大家一定要一起團結而且我們要事先也有預作我們的應對措施所以本期要請教我們是出國導向的國家美國關稅來提高的做法對於我們這樣子的一個經濟體它絕對是很大"},{"start":5126.596,"end":5147.383,"text":"的一個衝擊那外媒的彭博也預估該稅率將會導致台灣對美出口銳減會63%那導致我們國內的GDP會降到3.8%會降這麼多在這樣的情況之下大型的公司或許他有迴轉的空間"},{"start":5148.863,"end":5168.349,"text":"就如剛剛部長所說的我們對於中小企業他是直接面臨到生存的一個壓力在這樣的情況之下我們看到台灣的中小企業激佔我們的九成產值我們的就業人口也即將要有在中小企業裡頭要有千萬人"},{"start":5169.289,"end":5189.935,"text":"在這樣子的一個重大的經濟的動脈下去如果處理不佳它當然經濟的停滯當然是跟整個社會會連動那換句話說是全民要承受所以在這樣的情況之下我必須要強調目前為止我們的談判大家似乎認為"},{"start":5191.095,"end":5204.003,"text":"我們的準備不夠周延而且慢半拍在這樣的一個情況之下我們要看到紓困緊急紓困是第一個階段最迫切需要的對不對 部長你們兩位都點頭我們繼續討論緊急紓困"},{"start":5210.907,"end":5225.495,"text":"880億的內容當中幾乎都是我們中長期的政策而且包括政府的轉型AI導入他沒有辦法即刻救援啊所以在這樣的一個情況之下 本席要請教"},{"start":5226.716,"end":5244.678,"text":"像我們中小企業他們既然面臨了生存的壓力這是非常嚴肅的一個議題他們除了需要要解決關稅就請政府我們全力的支持勇敢的有專業有能力的去談判"},{"start":5245.984,"end":5261.777,"text":"那同時就像中小企業所馬上面臨到的請教部長跟主委我們針對於基台的更新這些的利息補貼你們做足了準備嗎 準備怎麼做甚至土地的租賃要不要協助他們來做補貼"},{"start":5263.678,"end":5288.874,"text":"中小企業信保基金你必須要有填單他已經連他的單都被轉單抽單他沒有業績中小企業信保基金能不能延續下來協助跟銀行一起寬鬆的帶給我們的中小企業急迫必須需要銀行會不會雨天收傘會不會抽銀根"},{"start":5290.622,"end":5313.341,"text":"請教報告委員回答你的問題第一個銀行一定不會抽銀根這是我們一直進行監督銀行一定不可以抽銀根部長對不對我們現在的中小企業署創新署我們現在開辦馬上辦中心來協助這些中小微企業他們碰到的問題不會每家都一樣所以我們一對一的輔導一對一的幫助他們解決問題"},{"start":5316.383,"end":5336.984,"text":"好 銀行一定不可抽銀根這是部長告訴我們的 我心裡踏實一點我也給我們所有的中小企業說不會雨天收傘大家共體時艱也務必一定要落實到在現階段我們絕對不能抽銀根部長"},{"start":5337.685,"end":5365.146,"text":"這個是行政院的決策決策一定要落實不會去戳銀根好這一句話讓我們繼續來討論本下請教台中市整個機械產業的一個重症那麼我們是不是已經掌控因為目前大家很緊張在中張頭是整個機械的胖修啦我們都在這裡好緊張自行車業燈手工具機工具機這個零件"},{"start":5366.207,"end":5393.744,"text":"還有我們的扣件我們都好緊張各個工會也都發出了聲音所以在這樣的情況之下我們政府針對於產業鏈的人力流失跟失業風險的擴散所以要請教國防會在這裡你是不是會考慮設立了產業轉型與人力穩定基金作為我們整個緩衝轉單期的時候它的人事成本它的再訓資源的一個來源"},{"start":5395.985,"end":5418.188,"text":"請教有沒有跨部會去討論我們目前是有跨部會討論我們跟經濟部這些單位有在討論過相關的問題那我們是一個再次轉型的專案那委員這邊提的產業轉型與能力穩定基金我想這也許也可以作為一個思考的方向之一謝謝你納入本席的建議"},{"start":5419.349,"end":5434.446,"text":"思考之一但是我請你務必要這麼做因為依照勞基法老闆是不能不給薪的那我們雙邊都要讓他們穩定下來除了不要抽銀根但是人力我們還要保留住"},{"start":5435.006,"end":5459.002,"text":"在這個階段我們如果在做再訓的工作我覺得是非常適當所以用這兩點意見也提供給主委我非常的希望可以聽到你納入這兩項來協助我們的產業好的好謝謝你接下來本席要請問部長台灣投資美國隊我們主要的產業是什麼"},{"start":5460.339,"end":5477.236,"text":"半導體 ICT或者是什麼產業那這一些你在投資的時候當然你也不能隨便給你還必須要有所評估那到底有多少項目有多少人可以配合做得來"},{"start":5478.79,"end":5492.558,"text":"盤點了嗎還有我們的輔導措施到底是什麼所謂的台灣投資美國對請做說明報告委員所有企業要往外走他只有兩個選項第一個看重當地的市場第二個看重當地的資源"},{"start":5493.854,"end":5510.58,"text":"我們是民主的國家我們對企業只有輔導那麼他有意願到美國發展我們會幫助他早日能夠出海落地早日能夠賺錢項目我們有盤點了嗎我們基本上這個我們可以思考我們到美國去做的是優勢產品還是做的是競爭的產品"},{"start":5512.961,"end":5538.072,"text":"是 所以我們項目有盤點了嗎因為既然喊出了這個口號絕對有所措施請問有哪些產業我們的盤點是這樣子就是說這個是在談判的過程美國希望我們哪一些東西去投資我們要保護國內的產業所以我們要衡量國內的產業有沒有到海外去發展的這個能力所以我們這個才綜合在"},{"start":5539.966,"end":5568.629,"text":"考量的部分中和在考量的部分還沒有確定哪一些項目是嗎但是我們基本上就是會整合如果去外國投資我們要縮短它的交易成本縮短它的配送成本所以我們大概是比較建議是整個供應鏈一起走整個供應鏈一起走打一個台灣國家隊這樣的一個概念就是換句話說半導體跟ICT產業是已經在這項目之內"},{"start":5570.063,"end":5584.903,"text":"可以這麼解讀嗎這要看對方的希望好 我們也希望政府你必須要有輔導的措施所以因此排除非關稅的貿易障礙那請教美國最在意的是什麼呢"},{"start":5587.062,"end":5599.818,"text":"我們有很多嘛譬如說我們的一些稅上面的部分或者是一些在行銷上面的措施讓美國覺得說你這個不是公平的競爭這一些叫做貿易障礙"},{"start":5604.062,"end":5625.275,"text":"我們當然會從各方面去解釋可能是國內的文化的關係可能國內的習慣的關係所以我們主要還是要保護國內的這些產業所以我們會透過他們在這個協商或者是在談判的過程裡面讓對方完全了解保護國內的產業這是基本的概念"},{"start":5626.115,"end":5645.003,"text":"本系列提出必須要能夠保護我們民生食安以及我們的農牧產業是的這兩點請務必一定要嚴肅與正一起加油 謝謝我們現在請鄭振淺委員做詢答"},{"start":5662.073,"end":5665.148,"text":"謝主席我想請一下郭智慧部長還有劉靜清主委"},{"start":5676.479,"end":5705.359,"text":"首先先請一下郭部長就是剛剛你有特別回憶一個狀態就是說因為在面對這個美國科30%關稅之後的時候我們有一個880億的一個因應計畫對不對你有特別提到說這880億是特別預算對不對是特別預算可是因為之前柯總早講說這880億是就有預算所以它到底是特別預算還是就有預算"},{"start":5708.62,"end":5714.434,"text":"我們所了解的是特別預算是特別預算嘛所以基本上柯子文昭之前講的是不對的"},{"start":5717.65,"end":5739.763,"text":"我們所了解的是 我想這個時間差啦這個預算跟特別預算是完全不一樣之後要動用也完全不一樣的程序你剛才講的那個部分是不是時間上面的差異啦但是就這個預算來講就是特別預算沒問題喔 特別預算我們都知道說後續我們立法院這邊要怎麼去配合這件事情"},{"start":5740.583,"end":5765.208,"text":"那我想另外再特別問一段話因為之前有商種有些企業界朋友他們回應說因為有些貨品現在在海運當中的時候那他們現在碰到4月9號之後課徵32%的關稅的時候可是有新的訊息出來就說如果4月9號之前已經裝船在5月27號之前抵達美國的部分的時候就不會課徵這32%具體的狀態是不是這樣經濟部這邊有沒有掌握"},{"start":5768.169,"end":5793.769,"text":"报告委员是没有错啦就是说你4月9号on board的产品才会课征这个32%的税啦4月9号以前出货从台湾出口的应该是这个具体是这样的4月5号以前那适用的税率就是原税率4月5号到4月9号是加征10%4月9号以后出货的"},{"start":5794.369,"end":5811.601,"text":"加32%所以是以出貨的時間為標準對不對所以4月9號之前裝船的話基本上就不苛徵這32%裝船的時間適用的稅率是嗎OK所以只要在4月9號包含4月9號裝船5月27號之前到達美國就不苛徵對不對在報關才能適用我看那個劉主委"},{"start":5819.895,"end":5829.255,"text":"點頭點得很用力就確定是這樣的狀態嗎?確定OK 好那我想說接下來我想來針對這個這個部分因為我看到那個"},{"start":5832.876,"end":5853.751,"text":"2017年我們整個出口的統計跟2024年出口的統計因為當中有一個很大的部分就是我們政府不斷推新南向這個政策可是我們看到2017年的時候對中國大陸跟港澳的一個貿易統計占台灣出口的31.68%出口到美國只占11.37%到去年的狀態的時候"},{"start":5856.052,"end":5883.245,"text":"大陸跟港澳的狀態出口是20.27可是對美國這邊大幅的提高到18.15%所以我們看到一個狀態就是在這段期間當中的時候呢在新南向在東南亞國家這邊其實比重沒有差距很大那對大陸這邊金額沒有差距很大可是比重大幅的下降表示我們對美國這邊的成長非常的多這個數字應該沒有錯吧我看都是按照整個政府這邊的一個統計數字"},{"start":5884.986,"end":5899.675,"text":"那我想特別問到一個狀態因為在整個國發會這邊有特別提到說我們在整個非紅供應鏈這邊的時候逐漸形成新的商機那政府也想要大力推動國內傳產中小企業進購相關能力拓展還會通路"},{"start":5901.136,"end":5924.585,"text":"打造一個民主供應鏈我想特別講一個狀態就是說我們看到這個數字當中的時候呢就發現非紅供應鏈我們現在政府努力在做的狀態可是在這一次的關稅的一個大地震當中的時候幾乎並沒有倖免針對這個部分的時候我想請教一下國發會主委的時候你怎麼樣去看待我們接下來對於整個非紅供應鏈的一個建制"},{"start":5927.76,"end":5947.823,"text":"陳如我剛才講的 其實美國佔全球進口大概是3.34%大概全球的進口貿易還有86.66%在其他的國際所以對我們而言 以台灣的經濟產業能量而言其實我們還有很多其他的市場可以去發展"},{"start":5948.704,"end":5969.753,"text":"所以有這樣的機會 我們希望利用這樣的機會 協助廠商去發展 讓他的整個風險管理跟市場更佳的建立 理解喔 所以就是說 飛鴻國運鏈這個部分我們還是持續努力推動嘛 原則上是這樣對不對對OK好 沒問題喔那我想說 在接下來我想特別提到說 因為您剛剛也特別提到說 我們有一個那個"},{"start":5970.793,"end":5998.079,"text":"對美的一個溝通的談判小組也成立了那我想說針對比方說以目前來說台積電已經承諾到美國去投資1000億沒有問題那麼國防預算也承諾明年要提高到3%GDP是3%那麼經濟部這邊也表示我們要協助整個供應鏈赴美去投資然後總統也特別提到說零關稅那我們現在還有什麼樣的籌碼你覺得現在跟美國在談關稅的時候可以用得上的"},{"start":6001.833,"end":6015.851,"text":"這個兩邊在談判的過程中我想籌碼是不可能攤出來給對方知道那就我的了解他是在我們行政院副院長的領導之下然後也他準備了非常完整的所以你說那個談判籌碼現在沒辦法講嗎"},{"start":6018.775,"end":6040.64,"text":"我可以理解 不過因為經濟部這邊有特別提到行政院已經完成了盤點對農工石油天然氣等產品大量採購計畫已經盤點完成那麼因為這一次的關稅很大一部分是因為貿易逆差的問題我想請教我們這樣一個大規模盤點之後的時候大概預計可以處理掉多少對美的貿易逆差順差的問題"},{"start":6042.379,"end":6056.645,"text":"這個還是要由談判的人來進行談判因為經濟部的報告裡面有直接提到所以我想知道說我們這個已經完成盤點的這部分的時候大概可以減少多少的一個貿易順差我們只能講說"},{"start":6057.985,"end":6079.13,"text":"這裡面經濟部是盤點了足夠的數字 其實我們各個不同 不只經濟部各個不同角度都有盤點那這個都是未來的籌碼 這個看談判的代表所產生的談判結果所以這個數字已經盤點完成 也沒有辦法揭露 你的意思是這樣子嗎經濟部長 因為這是你的報告當中 你的意思也是這樣子嗎"},{"start":6081.055,"end":6096.992,"text":"我們現在經濟部所揭露的是我們經濟部所包括的範圍之內但是這個是經濟部的這個金額我想之後行政院他們談判他們還有其他的資源"},{"start":6098.053,"end":6103.495,"text":"因為你這邊講行政院這邊已經談判好之後的時候我想之後到本辦公室我們來做這個細部的溝通我們內部這是可以調整的理解剛才像主委在講的就是說這個其實談判是在談判人員他們手上去溝通這個"},{"start":6114.858,"end":6131.521,"text":"那我想因為剛剛有地震可是我發現就是郭部長跟劉主委其實還是非常穩健我們也希望這一次關稅的一個大地震的時候我們台灣能夠順利的一起度過不過我這邊想要再問一個問題就是因為川普他又特別提到一個情況"},{"start":6132.302,"end":6146.564,"text":"就說台積電如果沒有履行到美國去投資的一個承諾的時候他要對台積電科徵百分之百的關稅針對這個事情我想請教一下郭部長這邊有沒有掌握我們怎麼去因應這件事情"},{"start":6147.569,"end":6166.956,"text":"報告委員我想您的那個訊息從哪裡來我們是不清楚啦到目前為止我是沒有收到這樣的一個訊息OK媒體已經有報導這樣出來今天早上媒體出來的訊息已經是投資的公司嘛所以在講說不會投資這個也是很奇怪的一個論述"},{"start":6169.417,"end":6197.563,"text":"所以你剛剛講說你還不知道這個訊息因為這是今天早上一早的媒體的訊息所以我想說報告委員我想媒體的論述也有它的來源但是這個部分必須要由台積電他們自己來回答我的問題是川普因為他公開講如果沒有兌現的時候他就會課徵百分之百的關稅對啦我想這個就是看什麼時候嘛"},{"start":6199.065,"end":6224.868,"text":"什麼時候那另外我想特別針對目前其實台灣的對美出口當中的時候以伺服器跟整個零組件佔的比重非常的高那當然他們目前其實是一個零關稅的一個情況那之後碰到32%的關稅的時候我想特別去又把那個所有以伺服器為例我找了一下"},{"start":6225.549,"end":6240.306,"text":"目前全球的十大伺服器的供應商台灣占四家啦那我一找他們的財報出來喔他們的一個淨利率淨利潤大概都低於5%基本上沒有辦法"},{"start":6241.207,"end":6261.517,"text":"去支撐這麼高的一個關稅所以我們對於這樣子的部分的時候我想請教一下部長這邊有沒有什麼回應報告委員那我想你的資料的取得這個當然是一種參考不過這幾家公司大概都是做這個代工的是所以那個稅是這個自己原廠要付"},{"start":6262.177,"end":6274.274,"text":"就是說今天可能是NVDA或者是這些公司包括COCOM這些公司他們或者是美插委這些公司他們要自己付是 所以你說關稅他們這邊都不用沒有問題"},{"start":6275.928,"end":6294.76,"text":"這些我們都跟他們談過了伺服器所有的廠商我們都跟他們談過了他們認為32%對他們來講不是問題而且我們現在重點是我們自己的brand我們台灣的台廠那我也問過了你有多少的利潤大概對他們來講這個優勢商品利潤是高於32%是高於32%優勢產品嘛"},{"start":6301.104,"end":6317.982,"text":"因為我是看整個公司的財報啦那如果針對特定的優勢產品我當然相信他們毛利淨利率其實也是高於這個部分至於整個公司財報來說其實是不夠然後你剛才有特別提到說針對這個部分的時候基本上買方的時候他會去把這個關稅的部分cover掉"},{"start":6318.871,"end":6334.015,"text":"而且坦白講這些這一個部分也是我們廠商他們自己我們都盤過他們的也跟他們討論過了他們認為對他們來講包括他們是生產的基地不一定只有在台灣理解"},{"start":6334.675,"end":6361.014,"text":"生產基地可能在墨西哥跟美國有一個美墨之間的稅條款所以你覺得因為台灣的出口當中很大一部分在針對伺服器跟ICT產品你覺得這個部分所以這關稅的部分對台灣的出口你覺得影響不會太大是這個意思嗎對 就是對伺服器或者台灣的優勢商品譬如說台灣什麼叫優勢商品"},{"start":6362.795,"end":6385.47,"text":"舉個例像我們的汽車零組件Aftermarket大概就是獨佔所以這個Aftermarket你要買台灣的商品那對不起這個32%加上去你還是要準備OK理解那我想說因為我看經濟部的資料當中有提到說我們前30大產品的時候大概佔對於出口美國大概72%我想知道說我們這30"},{"start":6387.832,"end":6404.799,"text":"前30大的產品當中我們是不是有去針對它會受到這個關稅的一些影響像部長剛剛針對伺服器有一個很具體的說明就是不會受到影響我們前30大的產品是不是都有做這樣的一個分析跟評估不是不會受到影響而是這些影響"},{"start":6406.492,"end":6432.963,"text":"廠商可以解決理解這是這個不同的理解 完全理解一定會受影響這麼高的這個關稅對我們台灣來講一定是影響只是我們對這個影響如何去解決如何把他這個影響轉到另外一個層級去然後大家來吸收或者是說他們可以承擔這些都是談判小組根據這個國內的能夠承受的程度"},{"start":6433.583,"end":6460.338,"text":"对于跟美国谈判的一个非常重要的关键所以经济部的立场就是不断地来访问国内的这些厂商可能会受影响的厂商他们影响的程度是多少提供给谈判小组做参考所以我想知道说我们经济部针对前30大产品这边是不是也都有做类似伺服器这样的一个评估如果有做再给本席一个很清楚的一个资料好不好我们现在因为在谈判中对不起这个部分可能"},{"start":6461.411,"end":6488.209,"text":"可能要晚一點尊重那我最後這邊的時候想請國發會這邊因為也有提到一個七大百億基金的部分在國發基金裡面因為國發基金裡面本來就有針對這七大一個產業有一些相關的一些投資的一個計畫我想知道這七大百億基金當中的後續的一個操作會是怎麼樣子之後給本席一個書面的資料好不好好的"},{"start":6488.709,"end":6496.896,"text":"OK好谢谢好谢谢在张其凯委员询答结束我们休息两分钟好现在请张其凯委员做询答"},{"start":6520.93,"end":6525.614,"text":"謝謝主席 請保定教主委國務部長 劉主委委員長保定 我們現在是共護國難啦共護國難角色非常重要 經濟補教國發會都很重要很重要的 包括我發現一個神奇怪的現象你4月4號"},{"start":6547.318,"end":6576.596,"text":"那一天你的角色應該是重中之重啊你為什麼做到第二排一個記者會前程一百分鐘你幾乎都沒有講欸有評論你有看到嗎?他們說你那個表現啊比那個手藝老師啊還不如你明明應該有準備的嘛對不對?那一天你是被下封口令還是你不想講?報告委員你看到的那個畫面跟事實不一定是正確的你去看棒球"},{"start":6578.271,"end":6602.414,"text":"投手好幾個在後面然後這個先發投手投得很好 九局都他在投啊對不對 我本來是中繼角色啊那你說我沒有上去就代表說我沒有用嗎大概是這個樣子 我跟你報告啦齁那一天我們是 我準備要回答記者的提問"},{"start":6603.939,"end":6626.929,"text":"但是記者的提問 提完了 我們院長副院長都答了都答完了啊 就沒有輪到我這是事實 跟你報告就這樣所以評論才會講說你比那個衰老師表現都不足啊我現在 人民現在比較關心的你角色要很積極 你那天沒有上台是怎麼樣你是被下風口令還是你自己主動就不上去"},{"start":6627.554,"end":6640.365,"text":"沒有 這個就是分工合作嘛分工那他們為什麼人家都是部會首長可能兩個投手上去投嘛那你是投手啊 為什麼是次長上去啊沒有 那個是報告 他上去是在報告嘛"},{"start":6644.844,"end":6656.612,"text":"不是在回答問題我重點不是在回答問題你聽到嗎後來又沒回答喔不然就沒問到我怎麼回答啊為什麼不去報告是人家怕你講真話是要講錯話嗎"},{"start":6658.174,"end":6682.321,"text":"你報告是完全照上面唸的啊對啊 大家補充都是自己去唸 他們中間的補充都是自己去唸他們的比較少啦 內容比較少啦我內容比較多啦我相信你應該 我在說的意思你應該很清楚對不對這怕要去 你要關心打棒球嘛我這用你認識的這個棒球的這個環境來跟你做解說嘛 你應該聽得懂嘛"},{"start":6683.021,"end":6705.367,"text":"對不對所以你本來要準備上場後來沒上場嘛我告訴你沒上場的原因第一個 我跟你講清楚跟民眾講嘛因為民眾希望你有積極的角色嘛重中之重那一天你是被嚇瘋狂我的角色是回答記者他要問的問題那一天記者都沒有問我能夠回答的問題啊對啊 沒問就什麼經濟問題啊就像問那個頭巾"},{"start":6716.35,"end":6739.388,"text":"所以不是被下風口令嗎也不是說怕你上去講錯話或者講了真話又戳破了一些謊言嗎報告委員這一種基本假設的機率等於零我們行政院是一個團隊每個人誰應該扮演什麼角色是非常的清楚我那一天的角色就是回答記者的問題"},{"start":6740.729,"end":6746.537,"text":"因為那個報告,我的次長上去報告就那個報告,他可以報告我也可以報告"},{"start":6747.745,"end":6769.534,"text":"但是我報告在回答問題 因為比較長所以我們稍微分工一下以後每個部委首長都叫次長上去報告這樣很好啊報告跟結果有沒有差別 沒有差別問題是回答問題嘛我是在回答問題的啊 結果沒有人問問題啊下次記者要記得請教那個部長問題要記得問啦 好不好"},{"start":6773.536,"end":6800.821,"text":"好 那我們現在就是要很積極的好 現在我就問問題啦 你要好好答喔不要就抖起來 又跑到第二排去啦不會啊 因為現在我第一排沒有人我們現在問第一排的問題 你不要閃抖喔現在 賴總統因為清澈共啊要大舉的採購美國的天然氣嘛 對不對他剛才講說盤點過啦我們天然氣大概要買多少目前我們所有天然氣 你知道嗎我們跟美國買的比例是多大 你知道嗎所有買的天然氣跟全世界各國多少錢啊"},{"start":6804.187,"end":6815.37,"text":"才10%耶那你現在要提高到多少不是三成喔10%目前只有10%你現在盤點過了你現在要大概要買多少跟美國這次要大總統說要你大局去買要買多少"},{"start":6817.884,"end":6840.399,"text":"我們現在就是目前這個確實是如你所說的我們目前跟美國買因為這個市場價格的問題啦成本的問題啦啊中來啊就是20%至30%啦所以要一倍到增加也不是說一倍啦就是說我們根據這個需求嘛我們因為這個有辦法為美國可以買現在對我們有一個優勢就是說我們為什麼過去沒有買美國那麼遠就是美國離我們太遠了啦"},{"start":6848.124,"end":6854.733,"text":"但是現在這個新的條件是這樣阿拉斯卡我們阿拉斯卡直接從上來到台灣十天而已"},{"start":6856.462,"end":6878.092,"text":"而且不會經過中國的東海的地區所以對我們來講這個是非常好的選項部長你今天很好 你到第一線來講這個非常具體我們本來只有買天然氣所有買天然氣的全世界各國只有10%現在大幅增加到20%到30%這個很重要另外更具體的你剛才說過"},{"start":6882.099,"end":6896.458,"text":"我們已經跟這個阿拉斯加的這個天然氣公司已經簽了這個投資意向書嘛對不對對那天我特別問你那個金額光是說他說是用管線就要400億的美金嘛你說不只那個錢還包括什麼採購對不對那個要一起開採對不對"},{"start":6898.392,"end":6917.777,"text":"發財可能要擴大嘛擴大一點這個部分我們是參與這個計畫啦這個計畫啊詳細的我不是那個那個單位啦你剛剛有參加嘛現在就是通常他的價位就是在那買衣服要買很多天然氣之外他這個開發計畫一共要花400億不管管線都開採嘛400億美金金額很大喔所以我們會負擔多少"},{"start":6919.445,"end":6923.806,"text":"那個不是說這麼大的金額就如你所說這麼大的金額我們當然要審慎具體的評估啦然後我們投資是根據我們將來採購的量"},{"start":6941.38,"end":6964.904,"text":"也有關係啦 因為你是溝通 你是溝通你的應用程度有多高 對你買的價格就有差別啦我想這個委員應該是很清楚嘛 你是財經專家嘛你一定很了解啊 我的投資跟我的報酬率這個是我們的關鍵啦 所以這一部分我想委員應該是非常的清楚 我們為了這幾天啊 就可以確定說"},{"start":6968.745,"end":6981.989,"text":"這個幾十年的慷慨不可能的事情媒體本來在報導說440億美金我們可能會佔一半這個是還沒有做過勾算的如果是這樣我可以跟你馬上回應這個問題啦絕對不會佔一半不會那麼多啦可是就是包括這個管線跟這個開採我們都會參加就對了啦"},{"start":6984.67,"end":7013.756,"text":"我們是溝通嘛我們會講說我如果參與是股東然後股東可以買到什麼好的價格我的ROI到底是多少這個是非常重要的觀念對我們來講對經濟部來講怎麼樣提出一個服國利民的政策做投資這個是我們基本關鍵這跟委員報告這樣所以到時候財務報告要給大家好不好要勾算了不要丟了太多錢"},{"start":7015.675,"end":7022.078,"text":"賠太多錢這個也不行啦我們現在是鼓勵要去投資啦另外一個 我覺得現在很重要的剛剛講天然氣你們想過這段時間我們要降低我們對美國這個逆差有一個很重要的 你知道天然氣有嗎就是核電喔"},{"start":7035.814,"end":7054.149,"text":"連他們AIT的處長都直接跟我們講了他願意幫我們提供他們的技術跟服務對不對而且這個金額很大這方面又是安全的美國跟日本美國現在都大舉在用這個核電了嘛對不對那利用這個機會啊我們現在有發展核電第一就是叫他們的處長說的嘛"},{"start":7055.49,"end":7083.598,"text":"鼓勵人說的啊鼓勵人說的疊疊重點就是說核電是比較穩定的第二個它是便宜的對不對那這樣你就不用漲電價可以降電價啊又可以第三個現在剛好要降低這個逆差你應該好好不要思考這個問題對所有的新的科技能源我們都會多方的評估那麼我想我們對這個您剛剛所說的這些可能的部分我們還是基本上的原則全國國人有共識然後核廢料可以處理"},{"start":7085.119,"end":7090.633,"text":"那這個是安全的我想這三個條件之下我們不排除任何新的科技穩定這個"},{"start":7093.548,"end":7121.919,"text":"電價又低 不只不用上還可以降可以降 第三個美國已經主動我們沒有排斥 報告委員我們沒有排斥 第三個最重要我們沒有排斥 現在可以大幅的降低我們這個逆差我們的關稅就不用這麼高了這個比買很多天然氣都有用喔不然現在內委會考慮嘛對不對我們不反對任何新的科技的能源科技我們不會反對的我們會評估 您剛所指示的我們會評估我再問一個更具體的"},{"start":7122.959,"end":7149.911,"text":"這幾天你一定有很多人在問你啊連電啊跟閣樓房的這個兩家要聯親的這個事情兩家要聯親我問的是非常直接的喔你要在第一線不要跑要跑到第二排去啦有吹哨者啊直接來直接來這邊提供很重要的這個訊息他說經濟部啊有一個官員啦前官員才退休啊叫做廖衛軍"},{"start":7152.978,"end":7172.974,"text":"他在促成這個事情 不認識這個人吧?不認識你不認識廖維俊?我去年520才加入這個經濟部的 所以這一位我不認識所以今年啊 崔少澤講說今年閣樓方德的高層有到台灣來三月份有來 你跟這個高層有見過面嗎?沒有"},{"start":7175.758,"end":7197.213,"text":"確定沒有?三位?當然沒有啊你想一下啊我在這個地方可以在這個在這個國會我不會讓外面人說啊我就是沒有啊所以你跟那個跟這個閣樓方德任何的人沒有接觸?沒有沒有OK好那五月份馬上就到了嘛對不對是五月份馬上就到了是你會去參加這一場這個聯電啊跟閣樓方德他們這個聯婚嗎?報告委員傳說的東西啊"},{"start":7204.181,"end":7223.408,"text":"你認為他的氣力有多大?你又抖到,用傳說又抖到第二線去本,你又到第一排啦沒有,我跟你講就說這個醜習慕總要見公婆,我現在已經死過了,五月馬上就翻牌了這個不需要否認,如果真的有的話,你就要坦白的承認啊這個是,這個是不確定的一個訊息你應該去問這個聯電有沒有這樣的一個訊息"},{"start":7227.168,"end":7251.185,"text":"我們是經濟部基本上如果他們有意願他一定會送到我們的投資部那我們會經過我們的投審會那這個到目前為止我們有收到這樣的一個投資意向這是第一件事情第二個這個是傳聞傳聞不予置評傳聞不予置評三個五月份我會不會去美國到目前為止"},{"start":7252.607,"end":7269.425,"text":"我們的行政院的這個整體的運作是動態的到目前為止我沒有收到這個訊息所以你本來5月份要去美國參加2025選擇美國投資高峰會這個行程可能有異動是不是這個不見得是有預定要去嘛對不對"},{"start":7270.818,"end":7282.348,"text":"這個我們因為碰到這個關稅的問題國家會整體的考量那我想這個是動態的部分到目前為止我沒有收到訊息其實民眾想了解的是為什麼會關心聯電"},{"start":7287.142,"end":7313.201,"text":"這是有沒有要去幫我們是二哥去幫二哥之前護國神山是大哥嘛對不對已經去幫了Intel啦那這次我們的二哥會不會聯電變成美聯電這個是大家的問題委員我們如果要做這個所謂的這種投資啊策略的討論我們可以另外闢時間好不好我可以告訴你非常正確因為我以前在研究所教書就是教策略管理所以我可以告訴你真正的"},{"start":7314.319,"end":7329.714,"text":"這個是不可能的事情部長連電這個事情就是三個這是三個嘛民眾要知道就三個啦第一個會不會因為復國神山去了之後大哥去了之後二哥又去那連電去了有三個大的影響嘛就是你現在不是假設性的問題啦他如果真的去你現在要了解的"},{"start":7330.234,"end":7334.439,"text":"因為這個是一個產業鏈一個半導體產業鏈那你如果說我們要討論學術的研究我可以另外跟你討論所以我的意思就是說對傳言的部分對傳言的部分不予評論"},{"start":7349.395,"end":7360.922,"text":"那我五月份會不會去美國要等到這個行政院的指示因為這是動態的部長我說你不要跑到第二排去你第一排你要去面對問題連電的問題至少要面對三個問題連電問題要面對三個問題嘛第一點會不會連電跑去美國變美聯電的時候我們的半導體這個整個產業會不會受到什麼影響這第一點你是要評估的嘛這經費保證你當然要回答這個問題啊第二點"},{"start":7376.392,"end":7394.609,"text":"對我們的半導體的發展那個營業有到底影響有多大第三點是人才啊去的一定帶一堆人去嘛你這三個評估好了以後你才能夠知道說這個事情要怎麼去應對嘛要不然的話你就永遠在第二排咧好不好至少做這三個這個評估啊好那五月份我們見珍珊看你有沒有去啦好不好我簡單問一下請教一下國發會主委"},{"start":7401.021,"end":7416.876,"text":"除以一段有提到說你們之前有做了這個評估最低可能是10%最高可以到35%那為什麼如果真的有做這個評估那你們會不會太樂觀行政院長怎麼叫我們安心稅啊完全沒有意想到可能有35% 32%嗎"},{"start":7424.299,"end":7441.787,"text":"我們的版本有到32%在那天的記者會副院長有說得很清楚我們的版本最高到35%這個是如果你有去看當天的記者會如果32%你叫我們安心說這個行政院到底是在逃跑去是不是不只是無能問題啊32%整個台灣你看這個一個海嘯來"},{"start":7448.732,"end":7470.943,"text":"他焦頭爛額 驚慌失措你們會抑固到35、32 怎麼那時候沒有 怎麼可以叫我們安心稅目前沒有驚慌失措 那我們再往前推 再往前推行政院長叫我們安心稅的前面你看歐盟還有全世界多少國家 美国已經判了幾個我是建議你不要製造社會的恐慌當政府積極正面的在解決問題 我們也的確有方案在解決問題"},{"start":7472.324,"end":7500.878,"text":"那其實您如果對這個方案有意見可以協助我們強化但是不應該一直鼓勵民眾要恐慌這是我認為一定要你如果處理得很好我們現在共互國內把它處理了當然就不會恐慌如果您認為哪裡不好你應該提出來叫大家安心睡民眾才會恐慌因為委員您是很知名的財經專家其實如果您也一起大家一起來共同努力我相信國家會更好好 我覺得很重要 剛剛講的"},{"start":7501.618,"end":7524.809,"text":"天然氣這個踩過這個方向你要整體去盤整我剛剛講的我覺得現在最重要可以馬上降低那個逆差的其實就是核電啦對不對大幅降低你關稅就可以降啊而且電又穩定啊電價又可以不要漲回往下是不是要去爭取這個這才是我們這樣王牌啊我想經濟部剛才已經有對這件事有一個回應"},{"start":7527.031,"end":7551.631,"text":"因為我不負責電廠的部分所以我們沒有辦法表達意見整體的國家發展對人們講很重要而且這次你們 老實講你們兩位都是重中之重我們談的好不好就看你出去王牌好不好對不對 你現在天然氣買了對不對我說你好好去考慮一下跟賴清德賴總統的建議而且你們去談的時候把核電廠放進去這絕對是一張好牌人民會幫你們國長的電穩定對不對"},{"start":7555.987,"end":7568.297,"text":"店家又可以降不要漲美國又主動開口逆差又可以降低為什麼不做呢好不好這位老爹好不好好謝謝委員好謝謝我們現在休息五分鐘"},{"start":7577.961,"end":7579.402,"text":"不是,你別戴這個"},{"start":7595.196,"end":7610.213,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":7623.899,"end":7625.54,"text":"這是時候的問題,為什麼這是時候的問題"},{"start":7657.689,"end":7659.109,"text":"每一船每一船"},{"start":7686.637,"end":7688.499,"text":"好 再来一个 再来一个"},{"start":7715.29,"end":7730.935,"text":"召喚人在AEA的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的那一層樓梯上的"},{"start":7743.52,"end":7747.084,"text":"如果 如果 如果 如果 如果 如果"},{"start":7784.065,"end":7785.507,"text":"谢谢大家谢谢"},{"start":7801.349,"end":7802.69,"text":"如果是政治問題"},{"start":7819.779,"end":7822.663,"text":"所以这个传统的体制是非常清楚的"},{"start":7845.018,"end":7846.659,"text":"今天馬上要為千語創作一個好片"},{"start":7871.778,"end":7872.459,"text":"現在開始開會"},{"start":7914.256,"end":7941.545,"text":"現在請鄭天才委員做詢答主席有請部長還有主委郭部長 劉主委兩位辛苦了"},{"start":7945.006,"end":7967.934,"text":"這個今天的主題我們召委這個有先見之明這個在4月2號以前就規劃了這個議題真的是有先見之明國際經貿情勢的變化正好這個3號就美國川普總統就發布了"},{"start":7971.584,"end":7994.395,"text":"美國對台關稅這個部分是媒體的報導這個美國保守派智庫研究員他計算之後他認為這個整個關稅的稅率這樣的一個比原來一起的高了四倍如果從台灣來看媒體是這樣報導"},{"start":7998.41,"end":8023.504,"text":"AEI的官网公布了重新计算对等关税税率他认为台湾应该适用10%的关税税率这跟我们财政部这是媒体的报道根据台湾财政部的数据台湾2023年平均民募关税税率约6.5%"},{"start":8025.478,"end":8047.344,"text":"故有分析意固美国对台最多实施10%的关税我之所以要特别提出来这个因为要去谈判所以也要把这些数据资料作为谈判的"},{"start":8048.733,"end":8068.788,"text":"資料之一部長一直說不能講出來了談判的籌碼但是這樣的一個資料要把它收集起來然後實際上的數據應該是怎麼樣所以我一直認為總統啊在4月4號講了這個"},{"start":8079.876,"end":8105.935,"text":"從台美雙方零關稅開始談起我就認為非常的不妥也有很多的專業人士也認為一開始談這個就不妥所以我還是建議建議就是說這個去談判的代表一定要仔細當然資料是你們要提供各部會要提供這些資料"},{"start":8109.126,"end":8136.737,"text":"應該是要最最最怎麼再怎麼樣應該是10%而不是32%這樣的一個數據怎麼樣去提供這是我的建議這個我我是外行啊我是外行但是我從參考這些資料來看的話好當然台積電我認為也是一個一個談判的談判的籌碼之一"},{"start":8138.4,"end":8165.022,"text":"我先請教這個部長台積電這個一千億加上原來的就等於一千六百多億就以現在的這個一千億來講要經過我們國家的法定的程序嗎這個程序完成了嗎報告委員現在還沒有好就是因為還沒有完成"},{"start":8166.371,"end":8194.128,"text":"所以談判代表一定要提我們的程序還沒有完成我們國內的無論是立法委員或是業界都認為都必須要列為這個看怎麼說了這個談判代表要把它說出來這個部分是一個很重要的"},{"start":8195.603,"end":8208.289,"text":"所以整個都認為說我已經一千億一千六百多億了結果還是百分之三十二對大家都沒有辦法接受啊我們一定是好了"},{"start":8210.351,"end":8235.554,"text":"所以這個部分我只是建議啦當然你們比較專業啦你們比較專業所以這個部分國發會經濟部包括其他的部會共同的在審慎的研議這個部分是不是可以成為談判的籌碼之一這個是粗淺的建議"},{"start":8237.335,"end":8266.218,"text":"我們會將委員的意見然後呈上給他們做參考對好尤其是總川普總統啊這是最近講的事業商號的媒體報導的一直在一再的不是第一次講啊事業商號又再講啊台灣抖走了美國的晶片事實上不是這樣事實上是當時的對不對以前的軍艦會"},{"start":8267.898,"end":8293.72,"text":"以前的經濟部當時的行政院對不對行政院長蔣經國那個年代把他請過來了怎麼會是奪走呢我們是給他更精進這個也要談啊也要說啊我們沒有奪啊不是我們這個也要說出來啊因為在他的認知上就是認為是這樣啊他公開說出來呢"},{"start":8295.137,"end":8319.112,"text":"比方說這個很深的那個認為,這個也要說出來,不是這樣,對不對所以這個部分,剛剛講的一千億,加上原來的六百五十億,就一千六百五十億對台灣來說這個是一個很重要,對美國也是很重要,對全世界來講都很重要"},{"start":8321.291,"end":8339.756,"text":"當然今天國會的報告裡面提到這個880億了880億這個裡面包含了經濟部主政的部分包括其他的這個農業部主政的部分這個880億這樣的一個"},{"start":8347.295,"end":8360.019,"text":"請問一下到時候是誰提出這個 是特別預算嗎 部長 那個主委會是特別預算好 那誰 哪一個部會來提報到行政院會由經濟部跟農業部經濟部跟農業部好 這個部分當然你們 因為時間很倉促時間很倉促"},{"start":8371.363,"end":8395.812,"text":"我所謂的時間很倉促就是說雖然4月2號以前4月3號以前你們有預估然後4月3號宣布然後又正好又放到連假正好就是我們的連假很多的資料相關的資訊的準備當然這個我們很多公務員都"},{"start":8397.601,"end":8421.26,"text":"也許就沒有放假但是這個資料的收集畢竟還是有限跟業界尤其是產業界包括農業然後因應相關的這些勞工或是農民這些的盤點未必那麼精準880億所以這個部分"},{"start":8426.153,"end":8452.56,"text":"還是要審慎的去把它盤點之後提出來也許足夠也許不足所以這個部分這個就就這個老公務員的立場來講是是需要再從這個審慎的盤點盡可能不要造成盡可能減少"},{"start":8454.308,"end":8461.774,"text":"我們的損失了好的謝謝委員好謝謝好謝謝我們現在請陳廷飛委員做詢答謝謝張偉浩我們請經濟部長郭部長"},{"start":8486.001,"end":8508.253,"text":"部長好我想這個美國把關稅高額變成32%其實對台灣的衝擊真的是蠻大的那我想我第一時間在臉書我就已經發布了這個訊息說這個部分就是因為貿易逆差因為台灣出口美國的一個高額"},{"start":8514.318,"end":8541.836,"text":"跟美國進到台灣這樣的一個貿易擬差造成美國去思考這樣的一個關稅的調整那我們要共體時間怎麼共體時間就是我們現在要去談的就是說兩個階段我可能比較不一樣其實部長我今天這個圖會比較清楚4月9號就是今天"},{"start":8543.174,"end":8556.125,"text":"今天美國對於關稅這樣的一個調漲他已經是上路了 對不對好 他也說會有談判期"},{"start":8557.761,"end":8586.252,"text":"現在所有的國家包括台灣在內都有提出要跟他談判這樣的一個方向也希望能夠有一個好的結果所以台美關稅最後定案這是一個我們非常重要的關鍵部長你看這個圖我們從4月9號到台美正式關稅最後定案"},{"start":8587.783,"end":8609.48,"text":"這當中到底是一個禮拜 兩個禮拜 一個月 兩個月 不知道可是在這談判期 我把它當成談判期在這個談判期我們針對所有的企業被取消的訂單我們政府如何協助這已經是過急症了"},{"start":8610.855,"end":8631.587,"text":"現在兩個階段這個圖寫得非常清楚台美關稅最後定案也就是我們雙方大家談判之後的結果我們台灣需要讓利在哪一個部分這是後面階段也就是可能受到衝擊的產業政府要如何協助因應"},{"start":8632.932,"end":8661.41,"text":"也就是可能面對的就是我們現在政府預計要提出特別預算在工業的部分700億農業的部分180億這是後面階段也就是長遠性的因為如果我們台美關稅最後定案這個可能就是一個長期性的狀態我們要面對的就是要如何協助這些受充其的產業可是我們要講的"},{"start":8663.087,"end":8683.148,"text":"談判期呢這個臨時已經有很多的企業已經被告知他們的訂單可能會被取消甚至有些都已經海運在空中還有甚至船起已經出發了這些部分怎麼辦"},{"start":8686.311,"end":8704.115,"text":"部長這部分怎麼辦報告委員那個船在船上的那個都是他如果在5月5月27號之前到達美國是按照原本的這個稅率這個我們有一個盤點出來說裝船是在這個4月5號之前"},{"start":8709.059,"end":8728.048,"text":"那麼他是按照原稅率,也就是說您剛才所指導的這個準的HIGH中的,這都教官來的稅率啦但是一定要給我的理智進行,到美國,報官進去所以部長,我會用這樣的圖,就是要讓你說明清楚現在很多人HIGH"},{"start":8728.288,"end":8754.081,"text":"不知道所以在4月5號以前只要我們已經上傳或是出關的這些都沒有問題5月27號之前5月27號那一天以前到達美國然後報關這個就是按照原稅率如果是4月5號到4月9號這一段期間他已經發布了那麼加10%的關稅"},{"start":8756.127,"end":8779.434,"text":"那如果是4月9號以後才出船今天以後才出船的32%這個我們會在經濟部的網站上面還有對我們的馬上辦中心以及我們的call center上面都會來報告跟國人報告所以這個國人在這方面有需求的"},{"start":8780.27,"end":8783.411,"text":"不用客氣部長你這個資訊很重要你知道這個資訊很重要嗎其實在這幾天其實我們在基層被問到最多的是那麼如果我們的訂單被取消了怎麼辦"},{"start":8799.036,"end":8822.034,"text":"好你剛已經說了有不同的階段如果在5月27號以前可以到美國報關的維持維持也就是我們原來的關稅那麼如果我們在4月5號到4月9號出關的從台灣出關的5月27號前到然後5月7號是增加10%我再一次強調4月5號以前"},{"start":8829.284,"end":8853.685,"text":"出關然後5月27號以前到達美國的員官稅然後如果4月5號到4月9號這段時間然後這個從台灣出關5月27號以前到美國的加10%那麼其他如果在4月9號以後從台灣出關的就是"},{"start":8854.446,"end":8863.679,"text":"照他們現在所有的關稅但是現在在談判所以你剛才那個點最後定案為止我們希望"},{"start":8864.682,"end":8884.596,"text":"會在5月27號以前然後可以這樣子談到一個好的稅率然後讓這個台灣的這個廠商啊可以來follow up這很重要所以我們希望我們這個最後定案希望是在5月27號以前也就是我們目前在整個"},{"start":8886.498,"end":8913.154,"text":"關稅到達美國一個界定的時間5月27號如果可以在這5月27號一簽完成談判我們就有方向這個是要穩定所有的一個中小企業的信心如果在我們這個談判因為談判不是操之在我不過我們的Priority在前面那在這一段期間裡面我們的業者"},{"start":8913.934,"end":8935.239,"text":"如果需要紓困 如果需要經濟部的協助我想我們都有準備那我們現在有開辦馬上辦中心來解決我們國人業者的擔心這個部分我們都會一一根據每一個業者不同的情形給予資助"},{"start":8936.243,"end":8964.712,"text":"部長因為其實我們在基層已經有些有些企業有接到就是要撤訂單的這樣的一個聲音了所以呢如果在這個部分有造成的無薪假或是企業損失在這個部分有需要我們政府來協助的我們有馬上辦中心可以來幫忙是好這個很重要好再來就是第二階段我們現在要去談判嘛"},{"start":8965.772,"end":8981.706,"text":"談判之後最後因為不是超支在我們我們一定要提出很多的版本那最後版本的定案是什麼當然是未知數因為這是談判的機密也不能請你們在這邊說我只有說"},{"start":8982.967,"end":8999.648,"text":"如果在談判之後最後的定案一定會有些受到衝擊真正受到衝擊的產業這個就一個時間就會比較長了就不是這個短時間喔這個時間上有可能未來都要面臨這樣的一個狀態好"},{"start":9001.77,"end":9030.219,"text":"那這個部分可能就落入到我們現在所講的我們會有特別預算的700億工業700億還有農業我們180億那這幾個方向在企業的部分可能就是資通訊產品電子零組件 汽車零組件扣件 機械零件 自行車運動器材 家具或是塑膠製品那其實很多的傳產"},{"start":9031.639,"end":9049.105,"text":"其實他們的隱形產業都在台南其實部長也知道所以其實雖然我們看到的包括汽車零組件雖然佔了1.8%甚至扣件可是其實很多它的集中地都是在台南"},{"start":9050.663,"end":9071.288,"text":"報告委員我想我們現在的881是對製造跟對農業上面產生變異的時候的一些支柱那您剛才在提的也非常重要也就是說在商業上面因為這樣而造成的連鎖的這樣的一個反應而造成resection這一部分"},{"start":9072.264,"end":9093.619,"text":"不在880億裡面這個是院長也有指示880億是第一個階段我們用特別預算來趕快來啟動接著因為後面有一段時間才會反映嘛讓我們觀察如果真正的需要我們會再提第二次的這個特別預算我想這個是一個程序啦"},{"start":9095.428,"end":9115.485,"text":"對 但是部長我們這個要先講給大家知道因為現在我們當然期待我們這個談判是一個對台灣非常有利的結果可是我們一定要讓我們台灣人民有信心讓企業穩定才不會反映在股市當中"},{"start":9116.346,"end":9134.552,"text":"你看我們的股市在星期一開盤的時候那個是整個跌停因為就是失去信心然後慢慢的我們讓大家有慢慢回升可是這個回升率還是不及大家的恐慌所以部長我剛才講的是當我們在最後台美談判的定案版"},{"start":9141.374,"end":9159.962,"text":"他可能影響的層面從我們的工業面跟我們的農業面這880億我們的協助之後那麼還有一個商業面這個商業面怎麼做我覺得我們應該不是說我們這一塊先做完那以後再談"},{"start":9161.636,"end":9188.354,"text":"人民的信心指數所以我覺得我們要講清楚我們現在對外的報告就是短期裡面我們的措施是什麼中期我們會怎麼做長期我們這個國發這個會有一個非常長期的對提升台灣在未來的產業競爭力的部分我們是不是請主委長期的部分長期的部分他已經提了2040年為止的長期的部分是"},{"start":9191.243,"end":9205.752,"text":"我們長期的部分主要是我們是要去透過三個角度去協助廠商第一個是協助企業進行轉型包括轉進到新的市場因為美國占全球進口市場3.4%這個我們都會講"},{"start":9209.074,"end":9238.674,"text":"我們都會講但是其實你所講的這些都沒有辦法直接讓人民有信心也就是說我們長期的所謂當880億我們在這個協助之後所引發的一些商業的影響我們整個市場面的問題台灣市場面的問題人民信心指數的問題在這個部分我們要怎麼幫助我們有沒有什麼樣的配套這才是重要的"},{"start":9239.734,"end":9263.881,"text":"主委這才是重要的報告委員那個中期的部分您剛才提的大概是短中期的部分那個是有經濟部在負責經濟部在負責我講的是未來長期的部分未來的話我們所謂的長期是那種10年20年的這個叫長期所以我們定義目前這一波的話就短期措施在這幾個月我們這樣子做接著在未來的"},{"start":9264.361,"end":9282.855,"text":"來 部長跟主委報告其實我們都來自基層或許你們都認為你們有在做可是這一波真的讓突然之間美國這樣的宣布已經讓所有台灣人民整個非常的驚慌"},{"start":9284.036,"end":9300.515,"text":"金孔那我覺得我們現在的責任就是穩住大家的信心所以我們希望的不是短期不是中期我們希望的是連同在整個商業面所造成的影響都應該有一個規劃"},{"start":9302.237,"end":9320.204,"text":"這個不是10年20年這個講太遠了而是你今天我們要給所有的工業轉型沒錯可是轉型不是一年兩年的事啊他要去把訂單從美國轉到歐洲市場也不是一年兩年的事啊這些市場的通路要怎麼抓"},{"start":9321.667,"end":9331.948,"text":"我覺得這是一個非常必須要面對的現實所以拜託部長跟主委我們希望看到的是你們在未來"},{"start":9333.362,"end":9354.289,"text":"在如何把這些再講一個標的時候雖然這個是標可是人民的感受不一樣我們希望給我們的是有一些能夠讓人民更加安心我們政府是有在做事情政府不是完全沒有風雲 沒有標好 拜託 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":9363.299,"end":9388.37,"text":"請謝依奉召委諮詢謝謝主席 我想要請郭部長跟劉主委請郭部長 劉主委"},{"start":9399.292,"end":9418.02,"text":"我想請就教兩位現在我們目前我們預估對於傳產是提出的是700億的特別預算對於我們的農業是180億那我想要請問以就目前"},{"start":9419.281,"end":9440.208,"text":"我們這樣子的一個情況什麼樣子的情況下你們未來去談會增加我們要補助不管是傳產微創微小型企業以及對於農業我們要增加在什麼樣子的條件下"},{"start":9441.321,"end":9454.992,"text":"報告委員 我想我剛才也有講過了880億是特別預算在現階段馬上能夠紓困止血對這些中小微企業的部分"},{"start":9456.058,"end":9482.884,"text":"那對於這個中期來講中期所謂的也不要講說中期就是說目前在處理的第一個階段我們是這個樣子那第二個階段當我們第一個階段結束的時候發現有必要再持續來協助那持續來進行的時候這個預算我相信是會再增加的會再增加的那但是這一些因為是屬於特別預算需要大院"},{"start":9483.664,"end":9511.974,"text":"所以我在說什麼情況下我知道啊但是剛才你們說了我們有非常多套的劇本我也認同我們談判絕對不能只有一套劇本但是在什麼樣子的情況下我們要給企業信心啊我們在什麼樣子的情況下會要對我們的傳產對我們的農業在提高我們特別預算什麼樣情況下"},{"start":9513.786,"end":9540.297,"text":"報告委員因為我們現在還沒有我們雖然有掌握這整個情勢啦但是每一家廠商對應這個環境的變異他需要的協助程度是不一樣的我不是每一家直接乘上多少家宿我們不是這樣子做而是直接的去訪談接觸這一些可以講說這些有受到影響的這一些廠商"},{"start":9541.337,"end":9561.036,"text":"我們來協助他需要什麼樣的協助這個是不一樣的我們有很多他可能在生產上面需要我們協助可能在訂單調整上面需要我們協助可能在金融上面需要我們協助但是產銷人發財太多了我知道我必須要去identify這一些他需要你什麼時候可以identify"},{"start":9561.576,"end":9576.057,"text":"我们现在都在进行中进行中我们现在我们整个产业发展署我们的中小企业署我们的园区管理局我们大概四个单位在进行所谓厂商的访谈"},{"start":9577.381,"end":9605.669,"text":"所以我們分別第一個我們跟我們比較高階的同仁是跟這個工會產業工會去做一些座談對實際上的廠商我們都一一的去訪談我相信這樣子得到的訊息會比較正確而不是大家用那個假設性的這個訊息所以我們對我們來講我們雖然是這樣但是我們希望能夠對症下藥"},{"start":9606.909,"end":9632.198,"text":"然後來協助他們好那什麼時候談什麼時候去美國談啊納坦雅胡對不對以色列總理他已經去美國談他們就零關稅你們希望的目標是零關稅是不是你從零關稅開始談嗎從零關稅看你們自己的目標你們自己設定的目標有沒有辦法像以色列一樣談到零關稅"},{"start":9634.074,"end":9660.877,"text":"這個是談判的這個談判小組他們的目標啦設定啦我們是盡量以不影響國內的生態然後創造有競爭優勢的的這樣的情境啦然後讓這個這個談判小組的人能夠跟對方來談我想這個有很多的這種give and take所以還沒有確定什麼時候談你看"},{"start":9662.867,"end":9690.551,"text":"石破茂他已經跟川普通電話了那他們就是優先去談那我們到底什麼時候我們比較low key啦所以我們要low profile去進行這件事情不需要那麼那怎樣我們是要隱藏起來我們是隱藏起來還是已經談了那個報告委員我們一定是這樣子一定在這個priority在前面的group"},{"start":9691.596,"end":9695.059,"text":"你已經確定我們是在Priority group在韓國之後嗎?會不會在韓國之後"},{"start":9703.765,"end":9731.123,"text":"有幾個我們主要的競爭你們都一直在談嘛只要我們不比我們主要的競爭對手的關稅還要就是高的情況下我們就有保持我們的貿易優勢但是目前我們就比日韓都還要高啊是不是報告委員那個韓國跟美國啊他們是這個FTA的"},{"start":9733.22,"end":9751.088,"text":"所以你認為我們這樣子的情況已經比過去好是不是不是比過去好了我的意思就是說不針對單一的命題去做一個假設我們是談整體的對我們中華民國"},{"start":9752.168,"end":9778.987,"text":"有幫助的對我們整個台灣的企業這個產業能夠穩住在台灣製造台灣生產這個是我們最大的目的所以你還是不確定什麼時候開始談我現在都在進行中好那對於美國所要求的消除貿易障礙的部分我們有沒有辦法做到在著作權方面"},{"start":9780.032,"end":9800.122,"text":"報告委員消除貿易障礙的部分很多是基於文化跟習慣的這個部分所以我們會跟對方溝通解釋說明台灣為什麼做了這些措施會引起他們認為是貿易障礙我想從這個地方去溝通"},{"start":9801.162,"end":9822.675,"text":"那他們會去溝通會去談判我認為我們必須要表達為什麼要做這個事情才有辦法再去做談的內容啦對不對這是give and take的部分嘛所以這個很重要美國認為重要的事情我們可能有疏忽或者是我們認為重要的事情美國他們不清楚所以這個很難談我想"},{"start":9824.996,"end":9838.248,"text":"談判啊像我跟劉主委我們在民間大概每一年這種重大談判都會碰到一兩次我這一輩子大概民間做50年的工作我大概有150次談判的這個經驗所以你會去談是不是就我們的經驗來講所以你會代表去談"},{"start":9841.411,"end":9862.388,"text":"沒有沒有我們兩個就是提供我們過去的經驗讓談判小組去談這些事情我想很多的事情我們過去的經驗可能是很久的經驗那他們現在談判小組他們與時俱進啊他們是專家我們是在外面談商業的部分所以我們可以提供一點經驗"},{"start":9863.689,"end":9883.005,"text":"那我的意思就是說談判通常會站在give and take的這個角度上面然後取得一定的平衡那這個裡面我們當然講說非貿易障礙這塊的東西不是數字可以解讀的而是要從文化習慣各方面來綜合考量"},{"start":9884.136,"end":9910.519,"text":"取得對方的諒解或者取得對方的同意或者取得對方的知曉我想這一方面有夠注意溝通啦我們只是提供這樣的意見好你站第一排太久了是不是讓那個劉主委一下主委喔剛才你在你的報告裡面提到喔就是美國的市場其實算全球市場的就是不是全部吧"},{"start":9911.69,"end":9919.497,"text":"那有86%是其他的市場可是我要給你看的是我們的數字我們國家的數字這是我國對"},{"start":9926.809,"end":9942.355,"text":"就是主要的出口數字你看到了我們的數字裡面對中國大陸與香港在我們總出口量的31.7%對美國是23.4%對東協東協也是在這一次對美國來講也是重大的損損失的國家是18.5%那我想請問我們要轉去哪裡我現在要轉去哪裡"},{"start":9957.176,"end":9983.391,"text":"委員是這樣子其實我們在很多新興的市場我們其實都還有很大的成長空間那對我們來講的話其實對廠商而言在這個時候它兩個大的可能只有三種比較可能大的方向第一個是供應鏈移轉往美國走或者是找到一個最適的生產地譬如說稅率10%的地方另外一個角度是它就市場上面進行分散"},{"start":9984.371,"end":10012.13,"text":"進行分散像最近崛起的印度市場土耳其市場其實也蠻多台灣廠商走到裡面那從這裡面賺到一桶金所以我們只是希望幫大家找到很多替代市場然後呢協助這些廠商往替代市場去發展對 問題是你找出替代市場的時候廠商會不會跟著政府的腳步走是不是廠商會不會跟著是不是你沒有提供足夠的誘因是嗎"},{"start":10013.124,"end":10024.812,"text":"我們會提供誘因之外我們其實也跟一些協會有在溝通那我們也在探討怎麼樣協助這些協會帶著他的會員往新的市場去開發好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":10049.341,"end":10069.375,"text":"現在請呂玉玲委員做詢答謝謝主席 請郭部長郭部長委員好部長"},{"start":10071.311,"end":10093.59,"text":"美國總統川普他現在在進行的就是貿易的保護所以要對我們全世界的國家都要課一個對等的關稅在4月2號公布的話我們國家台灣就被課了32%那馬上4月7號我們的股市一開盤也大跌了2000點以上"},{"start":10095.271,"end":10124.697,"text":"所以在這種情況之下我們立即要應對的事情非常的多本席想詢問的就是說像我們看到日本他是被課了24%韓國被課了25%這都是我們鄰近的國家最有跟我們競爭力在競爭的國家所以我們被課了比較高的這個關稅那我們的因應方式我相信在這幾天你們也會去盤點那尤其最重要的"},{"start":10125.137,"end":10141.625,"text":"你原先在這個川普一直在預告的當下應該要先來跟我們所有的產業來做一個溝通或者是說你們要先跟美國來做一個溝通跟評估你們溝通評估了沒有"},{"start":10143.067,"end":10156.738,"text":"報告委員我想這個這一次確實是如您所講的這個來的這個比我們預期我們當然是有預期到35%最高35%最低就10%所以我們32%是算高的吧我們高的這個是計算方式我們後來發現這樣的一個計算方式"},{"start":10171.341,"end":10198.2,"text":"这个导致于我们会被课比较高的这样的一个关税不过我想那个美国他也有讲这个就是你最高的关税是然后接着来谈判谈判到我想那个谈判只有这个关税不会比这个再高因为会比这个更低就那些项目之内那我们也启动一定要跟美国再谈谈我们当然现在就是要那你要去谈之前一定要盘点各产业的需求"},{"start":10199.531,"end":10216.338,"text":"對不對 那你要怎麼談這單項談還是總個談還是說我們要讓這個關稅要降到多少心裡都要抵最重要心裡的抵是什麼我們要有籌碼去談嘛那因為川普在等著你們來談為什麼要等著你們來談你們來談 一定要帶著他說你要帶著錢來談嘛帶著利多來談嘛"},{"start":10222.401,"end":10244.879,"text":"所以在這個情況之下雖然說都是未知數談的結果怎麼樣我們也不敢有樂觀但是我們要準備好所以現在盤點的情況怎麼樣了報委員我們現在最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最最"},{"start":10246.055,"end":10271.842,"text":"然後我們如果能夠談到10%這樣的關稅我們會有什麼樣的一個情境這個就是分析然後哪一些東西可能會被課32%但是是不是我們的優勢商品是不是我們的供應性商品是不是互補性的商品這裡面我們可以看就是說你美國需要但是只有我台灣可以供應"},{"start":10273.206,"end":10286.853,"text":"那你課我32%你的客戶要買單嗎所以說要部長好好的盤點嘛我們確實是都有盤點台灣對美國的出口金額從2020年一直到2024年逐年增加從505億一直到去年的1114億在這個裡面佔了52%就是資通訊"},{"start":10296.499,"end":10307.406,"text":"就是資通訊所以現在雖然說台積電不要說台積電雖然半導體跟藥品目前是暫時豁免但是我們要談的"},{"start":10308.84,"end":10329.493,"text":"就是準備看看我們台積電在已經過去投資了那現在投審會也在審查了那可不可以請美國在這方面給我們多一點力多來保障保護到我們的產業不然的話我們台積電就白白去美國投資沒有獲得更多的優惠的部分是不是"},{"start":10329.833,"end":10343.458,"text":"我想委員的意見我們都會提供給談判小組人做參考是好那本市也要知道你們現在因應方式就是特別預算增加880億這880億工業700億農業180億真的對這些產業來講真的是杯水車薪不夠那在不夠的情形之下"},{"start":10354.162,"end":10374.556,"text":"現在是先應急啦根本解決就關稅對等關稅趕快談嘛對我們再更加的有利啦所以也請你們好好盤點那現在不夠的部分我們會支持我們會支持因為產業太辛苦了因為你關稅提高的話就算產業的成本就是提高提高的話萬一訂單減少"},{"start":10377.113,"end":10394.56,"text":"的話就會裁員裁員又會發生的就是無薪假的部分再來就會失業這是連帶關係整個產業都會受到很大的衝擊所以我們一定會支持應急的方式你們趕快把每個產業都了解怎麼要去輔導該轉型的部分都要去轉型所以這不夠的部分本席在這邊也是要建議因為去年的超收稅金5283億"},{"start":10406.745,"end":10415.929,"text":"這個部分也可以做產業的紓困基金這個部分也請部長可以呈報去給行政院這個能夠解決我們產業的需求這樣子好不好是 謝謝委員那接下來剛剛有特別提到說你們盤整嘛要盤整去談的話我們進口的美國的部分你們有沒有盤整"},{"start":10427.754,"end":10447.322,"text":"他們進口我們將近30個品項的產品這些產品的話你們有沒有去盤整說哪些我們也要說釋出善意啊除了台積電來談的話這半導體來談的話其他他進口的一些品項裡面有沒有我們可以調整一下這個他們進口台灣的部分的這個關稅"},{"start":10449.076,"end":10465.802,"text":"我想這個關稅談判他不是做只有單一啦他們會總的當然是總的那我們自己要盤點嘛這30個品項你們有盤點嗎我們都提供這個資料讓談判小組他們可以去做參考有盤點這30個品項嗎對對對有嗎我們都有分析你們盤整出來數額聽你們講是都夠怎麼樣叫夠"},{"start":10470.779,"end":10482.738,"text":"你說700億的部分不是就是美國進口是30個品項你們看哪些品項可以降低這個關稅的部分來釋出我們的善意跟美國可以進一步的對談嗎"},{"start":10484.315,"end":10511.169,"text":"我們現在都會盤點其實我們從美國進口的工業性產品不多我們倒是賣到美國的東西是工業性產品多於這個農業性產品那我們現在農業產品是美國進到台灣的是比較多比我們輸到美國的這個農業性產品是比較多的所以我們會綜合去討論那其實要解決這一個關稅的問題它有很多的方法"},{"start":10511.849,"end":10529.743,"text":"那我們行政院大概就是有分配各部門大家應該分工合作然後提供給談判小組一些有利的談判的資訊我相信我們跟委員報告也都是一樣當然委員有更好的這個指教我們也希望我們能夠告訴我們對你剛才那些好的意見我們都會轉達會向上報告因為剛剛提到的是台積電半導體都到"},{"start":10536.888,"end":10549.597,"text":"美國去投資了啦你增加要增加一千億那投審會都在審查了那現在美國也把這個半導體為他們的主軸利益嘛所以他們一定會非常的重視這個是非常有利的一個條件投審會這邊要加強的來審查那我們也可以拿這個當籌碼跟美國來談讓這個有更多的利多給我們來保護我們的產業謝謝委員提示"},{"start":10561.665,"end":10572.19,"text":"這樣子的話半導體或者是藥品它可以永久的豁免這才是重點好不好加油加油謝謝好謝謝我們現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢答謝主席請劉主委跟郭部長劉主委 郭部長我先請教一下劉主委"},{"start":10590.649,"end":10601.157,"text":"主委我先請教一下因為最近這個包括川普美國川普這邊提高關稅的部分那我們原先預估我們今年的經濟成長率其實可以超過3那這個會不會受到影響以現在這樣的狀況現在來評估的話會受到影響會受到影響可能保3會有問題嗎"},{"start":10606.961,"end":10634.363,"text":"如果照現在這樣狀況的話對 寶山會有問題寶山會有問題但是我們還是希望透過一些措施刺激國內的一方面跟美國做一些談判一方面投入80811甚至未來更多的也希望寶山應該還是我們的目標我們還是要面對目標去努力朝這個方向但是現在看來是如果照這樣看來是一個艱鉅的挑戰是的好 了解好 謝謝那個主委先請回那我問一下部長好了 部長"},{"start":10636.912,"end":10651.508,"text":"我問一下今天早上大家都在關心這個台積電部分因為AI晶片部分有流入到華為那很多人在關切恐怕會被開罰10億美元部長有這樣的事嗎報告委員我想這個對這個問題我想"},{"start":10657.472,"end":10675.445,"text":"台積電應該是台積電它是一個遵法 鎖法的公司對對這樣的一個傳聞基本上我們經濟部是不予評論這件事情但是我們相信經濟部有掌握到這件事情嗎"},{"start":10676.225,"end":10699.12,"text":"經濟部因為沒有收到這方面的報告所以沒有得到任何這樣的訊息沒有收到這樣的報告我也認為以台積電這麼大的一個國際級的公司他應該很謹慎小心他也很清楚美國的底線他也很知道這些晶片流入華為的嚴重性我們認為台積電會犯下這樣的錯誤所以我認為我對這樣的訊息其實我是懷疑的同時間我對台積電是有信心的對這個傳聞的訊息未經證實我們不予評論"},{"start":10703.424,"end":10704.348,"text":"不予評論 不過部長應該對台積電有信心吧"},{"start":10707.099,"end":10734.438,"text":"台積電我們當然是非常有信心的對守法對清楚尊規然後對各地各國的法令都非常的清楚而且遵守的一個廠商我相信他們不會輕忽這件事情我也不認為他們會這麼的輕忽讓這個晶片流到華為去然後犯下了美國這麼在乎這件事情是的所以我認為我對台積電是有信心部長應該對台積電有信心吧"},{"start":10734.998,"end":10754.276,"text":"非常有信心 非常有信心喔 很好再來我請教一下 現在也有在提到說川普說如果台積電威脅台積電如果不到美國設廠的話 課徵百分之百的關稅部長我們怎麼 這是川普所講的啦當然未來我們會做很多的一些談判的過程嘛這個我們應該會來協助溝通跟協助這個台積電吧"},{"start":10759.451,"end":10765.41,"text":"我想我們這個台積電他對他所承諾的事情我們相信台積電一定會做到"},{"start":10767.619,"end":10793.884,"text":"對 所以如果有這樣的百分之百的關稅這對台積電來說我講的是接下來我們會有很多的談判的小組會去跟美國做溝通我們希望讓美國讓川普這邊更知道怎麼樣讓台灣跟美國之間創造一個好的一個環境而不是造成更大的一些來 部長請說是 報告委員我想大家都非常清楚"},{"start":10794.878,"end":10812.257,"text":"台灣跟美國之間的科技是互補的也就是說一個產品能夠在市場上面賣得很好美國只扮演研究的角色台灣是扮演發展跟製造"},{"start":10813.905,"end":10831.121,"text":"的這個角色所以這個是完全互補也就是台灣有台灣的優勢啦台灣的不管我們的人才不管我們的各方面我們有很多我們的優勢這個部分其實未來透過談判小組我們希望讓川普讓美國這邊更清楚怎麼樣達到一個雙贏的目的而能夠而不是讓"},{"start":10833.317,"end":10857.78,"text":"我希望這一塊未來談判小組持續來努力是 他們會把握到我接下來要問一下談判小組接下來會來跟美國這邊溝通嗎我們的順位應該滿前面的嘛因為很多國家都要跟美國來做溝通我想我們的順位應該在很前面對 因為我們跟美國的貿易這個數字是相當大的嘛而且我相信美國也很在乎不過從我們沒有被列入到這個十大的這個應該是美國對我們之間還算是有一定的信心"},{"start":10859.588,"end":10883.169,"text":"我們跟美國一直維持良好的溝通所以在這一方面我們要傳達國人的這個想法或者是談判代表需要能夠提早跟美國進入談判的這個過程我想美國他一個國家這些人他要對五六十個國家甚至七八十個所以我們的順序看前面也很重要我們順序一定是在前面"},{"start":10883.809,"end":10895.677,"text":"那我問一下這個談判小組裡面部長會參與進去嗎還是我們經濟部的哪些人會參與進來談判小組的組成包括前往美國溝通部長你會去嗎"},{"start":10897.847,"end":10920.586,"text":"我到目前是沒有收到這樣的一個命令但是部長也會做準備啦反正我想部長、次長包括各相關的因為經濟部是一個重要的我們是一個團隊啦那有必要我們那個角色扮演我想我們都會善盡自己的職責不過部長跟次長跟經濟部團隊都已經做好萬全的準備了嘛我們在提供訊息方面我們確實是做好萬全準備"},{"start":10921.266,"end":10943.361,"text":"那另外賴總統其實也提到了除了從零關稅談起以外其他也提到了包括對於軍事的採購甚至投資美國我想這個都是啦減少美國的貿易赤字減少他們利差我想這也是一個努力的方向創造多元的方向那我們對於美國的採購的天然氣這個部分會持續來進行嗎"},{"start":10945.405,"end":10963.135,"text":"這個是項目之一啦項目之一啦那其他的部分呢包括像農產品的部分也會持續來加強做採購嗎我們對可以採購的部分我們當然是加強但是以國內的產業不受影響的前提作為我們這個努力的方向"},{"start":10963.855,"end":10986.914,"text":"這個當然是必然的啦 盡量減緩對於國內產業但是現在看來有些一定會受到衝擊那衝擊的時候也希望經濟部善加運用政府的這個880億甚至更多資源來協助他們度過這一波的難關是的我想這個部分我們會持續的來這是我們優先項目這個優先項目那部長 那之前他傳五月份要前往嘛這個就尊重行政院整體的規劃嘛 對不對"},{"start":10988.798,"end":11002.946,"text":"這個是行政院整理規劃整理規劃我們是動態的運作那部長也做好準備嗎就是說行政院請部長出發部長就前往這個都是大家我們是一個team一個團隊那什麼時候上場"},{"start":11004.086,"end":11028.153,"text":"這個就是由這個總教練這個就是說就像剛剛部長提到的不管是請你當先發當這個中繼甚至上最後的終結者這個我想請這邊我們隨時都是準備的部長就做好你的角色嘛每一個部長次長各單位的都扮演好每個角色都是一樣好謝謝那再來我請教一下啦有很多人說應該要這個投資中國"},{"start":11032.654,"end":11057.723,"text":"這個時間點有些國民黨某些人說投資中國甚至於應該要對美國採取比較對抗的態度然後跟中國走比較近的路部長同意這樣的看法嗎所有的這個輿論所有的這個談話我們都給予參考尊重那部長認同這樣的看法嗎基本上因為我們跟美國其中有一個非常重要的"},{"start":11058.735,"end":11087.77,"text":"就是紅色供應鏈必須要避開這是美國對我們的出國安全的一個非常重大的要求那紅色供應鏈其實是我們現在必須要檢視的所以如果在這個前提之下然後再來就是從中國輸出到美國的關稅那麼高100多%我相信我們讓我們的業者去中國投資他可能也不願意吧"},{"start":11090.073,"end":11114.353,"text":"光一個民主的國家跟一個專制的國家裡面說 官制的國家很多已經受制於人所決定啦光這樣的一個經濟的體制上面來說 我當然會比較相信是一個民主的體制是一個比較安全的除川普以外 川普旁邊還有很多的國會嘛 他還有國會的機制還有人民的機制可以去處理 這個當然是一個相對比較安全的而且這裡是一個長期的民主夥伴關係嘛"},{"start":11115.194,"end":11143.84,"text":"那中共可能就是聽了就是習近平一個人的決定而已這是一個高風險更何況現在中共內部的問題也相當的多嘛所以我認為現在去講所謂的這個親中然後跟抗美這樣路線我是非常不認同的啦我認為其實當然我們也不會刻意去跟中共為敵啦但是對於你要去抗美親中這樣路線我想這個是完全背離台灣最大利益的我們的國人業者也會對他的這個利益考量啦"},{"start":11144.58,"end":11164.013,"text":"那我們基本上還是協助他能夠避開這個經營上面的這個風險這個是我們經濟部會做的事好最後一個因為扣件其實對於影響相當大我們的扣件的有523億會受到衝擊我也希望經濟部要來加重來協助來看怎麼來處理"},{"start":11164.933,"end":11189.874,"text":"當然我們有競爭對手的關係也跟美國之間的關係但我希望這一塊經濟部能夠特別的去重視特別擴建都在高雄跟台南這邊南台灣那影響相當重大我們會每一家公司都去訪問我們也希望用專案的方式來協助這些擴建業者來渡過這一波難關好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝中午不休息延長開會時間我們現在請下一位徐巧欣委員做詢答"},{"start":11204.785,"end":11206.668,"text":"謝謝主席那我們有請經濟部長郭部長"},{"start":11216.021,"end":11233.332,"text":"文雲好部長好新聞傳出呢聯電要與全國第五大晶圓代工廠企業這個格羅方德傳出合併的消息那也引發很多人的批評說先把護國神山台積電賣掉了連二哥聯電也要賣那請問部長對這件事情您是樂觀其成還是倍感憂心部長這些假設性的這個他們已經談到滿深入了"},{"start":11245.861,"end":11274.207,"text":"我們的訊息是我認為這是假設性的命題你認為他們不會合併是假消息我們到目前為止沒有收到這樣的申請所以你認為這個聯電跟格羅方德不會合併我們沒有收到這方面的訊息嘛好那如果說他們合併的話您是樂觀其成還是您會有所憂心"},{"start":11275.451,"end":11284.759,"text":"我們認為這是假設性的命題假設性的問題你還是可以回答因為就兩個第一個就是他們會合併第二個就是他們不會合併你只有兩種選擇而已如果他們合併了你會倍感憂心還是你會樂觀其成如果他們不合併你會倍感憂心還是樂觀其成這不算是一個假設性的問題因為你只有兩種選擇你認為你要跟我討論的是學術性的探討"},{"start":11302.794,"end":11329.221,"text":"就我要問你作為一個經濟部長的探討如果是學術性的探討我認為他們不可能合併你認為他們不可能合併好你認為他們不可能合併嗎那業界有那如果合併了呢你今天要怎麼如果他們最終合併了你今天在這裡的就不會合併你確定他們不會合併就對了我說是學術性的探討他就是不會合併好沒有啦我只是問你說那如果他們最後合併了你在這裡告訴大家說不會合併"},{"start":11332.242,"end":11336.446,"text":"能夠了解的範圍之內反正我知道了 這個經濟部長告訴我們說他們不會合併那經濟部長您在5月11號到14號去這個企業領袖訪美團那參加這個美國投資高峰會裡面那有沒有可能去見證他們相關的這個MOU"},{"start":11354.68,"end":11366.252,"text":"我們會有哪一些的資源假設性的題目嘛你就已經要準備去參加了嘛那你去參加之後你2025年有沒有要去參加這個高峰會你有沒有要赴美參加這個高峰會"},{"start":11371.897,"end":11385.315,"text":"參加這個美國的這個這個高峰會這個是由行政院在調整的我們目前都是動態的所以你2025有沒有去參加你不知道"},{"start":11388.218,"end":11406.223,"text":"你說我不知道什麼你不知道你2025年美國投資高峰會你自己本人有沒有去參加我本人去不去參加不是我決定的而是由行政院決定的所以你本人不知道目前我現在目前當然是沒有說到這個指示你不知道那我也沒辦法你好像很多事情都不知道"},{"start":11407.003,"end":11426.036,"text":"那先前三月在亞利桑那州反台的時候對存在的事情的意思就是說你不會喔因為其他很多部門他今天他要準備今年要去哪裡哪裡做拜訪的時候他們的schedule都已經出來了喔我就在你這裡才有聽過說哎呀我還不知道2025年的這個活動我要去還是不要去我就在這裡才聽過你講這樣子好不好我繼續問喔你假設的問題不見得是我要知道的問題"},{"start":11436.443,"end":11447.559,"text":"那是你這樣認為我不這樣認為我在其他所有的委員會裡面我詢問說你們今年要來哪一些的出訪大家都已經把2025年的schedule都排好了目前只有你不知道目前只有我知道假設性的問題你認為是假設性的問題"},{"start":11453.587,"end":11464.734,"text":"但在其他的委員會的部長裡面他們都已經是把今年的時程表給規劃好了只有你不知道沒有關係那如果說川普他當天演說的時候有提到我們的台"},{"start":11471.198,"end":11488.045,"text":"要拿走台灣的台灣拿走所有的半導體跟晶片那後來呢商務部長又講川普之後會做更深入的研究看看要如何把全部的半導體製造從台灣移到美國那請問這個真的會發生嗎那我們會同意嗎"},{"start":11491.752,"end":11507.36,"text":"我們對各種情境的假設我們都會評估啦我們都會評估你剛剛說不會所以沒有講不會是你聽錯了那你說你那等於說政府對於美國商業部部長已經說出來的要把"},{"start":11510.581,"end":11532.35,"text":"全部的半導體從製造到台灣移到美國你們要現在開始做評估還是你們做評估已經做多久了我們早就有做評估了所以你們評估是要怎麼樣你們是所以你為什麼要說我是假設性的問題呢你們都已經做了評估了我就問說你們會同意還是不同意嘛你們評估的結果是什麼嘛評估的結果是什麼"},{"start":11537.673,"end":11559.45,"text":"這種不是假設性的嗎有很多很多是什麼你講個一個兩個來聽聽嘛一個兩個來聽聽啊不是啦你想要聽哪一個啊我隨便你我隨便你你講一兩個來聽就好因為我要知道你到底評估了什麼你說你有評估但是你評估了什麼你完全沒講那我到底知不知道那我到底能不能知道你有沒有評估啊那你要亂問啊沒有啊我亂問個屁啊"},{"start":11559.87,"end":11575.404,"text":"你剛才說你們已經有評估了然後我問你說你評估了什麼你一個都講不出來那我就講說我們有很多你要聽哪一個啊那我隨便你講一個嘛我現在在講嘛你剛才提供的Global Foundry跟聯電這個事情我可以告訴你不可能好"},{"start":11576.044,"end":11590.28,"text":"然後呢所以我們不會同意嘛對不對所以我們最後我們講說所以美國商業部長講說如果我們要把全部的半導體從台灣移到美國我們是反對的我們不會同意對吧"},{"start":11591.274,"end":11599.081,"text":"我們會有各種情境的假設你剛剛已經說了連電不會去合併跟美國這邊合併所以你的意思就已經很清楚了你不會讓全部的半導體從台灣移到美國嗎這就是一個邏輯嗎我時間到了 謝謝你這個邏輯怪怪的好 謝謝我們現在請張家俊委員做詢答"},{"start":11624.147,"end":11625.575,"text":"主席我想請郭部長郭部長"},{"start":11633.339,"end":11653.513,"text":"部長 美國4月2號對台加徵32的對等關稅這是台美經濟關係數十年來可以說是最劇烈的一個變化能夠與之比擬的大概只有45年前台美斷交可以比擬你覺得不覺得這已經是我們國家的一個危機了呢我認為這是一個難題啦但也不見得是個危機啦"},{"start":11662.028,"end":11678.476,"text":"那這880億其實您提出的希望可以紓困的這個方案需要立法院通過那這幾天連續好幾個院會我們議事都空轉了 您坐在下面會不會著急呢"},{"start":11679.366,"end":11703.489,"text":"我們大概這個是因為提特別預算我們希望能夠在這個院會我們行政院院會先通過然後趕快送來給大院來請大家立法院現在一直空轉沒辦法開會大院如果沒有辦法通過沒有辦法開會沒有辦法通過您著不著急我們就現有的就現有的這個部分先能夠來"},{"start":11704.85,"end":11729.866,"text":"你們會不會希望說這個行政院也要跟這個黨團溝通一下儘速可以來開會趕快儘速通過因為昨天有非常多的縣市長也已經呼籲這個不是我們可以我們可以決定的我現在跟你們報告的意思就是說雖然你也對我們幫助很大希望能夠早一點通過這個880億但是如果我的意思就是說我們其實是這個880億是擴增出來的"},{"start":11732.327,"end":11746.062,"text":"增加出來的這些舒緩這些中小微企業的困擾是我們本來就有一些預算存在所以如果你不能夠大院不能夠這個所以你們有另外的錢可以先支應"},{"start":11747.406,"end":11768.136,"text":"你們還有另外的錢可以先指引嗎那我本席想要提一下就在這場風暴當中其實首當其衝的不是那些擁有全國布局能力的大企業甚至也不是台積電而是我們這塊土地上最多數最辛苦最容易被犧牲的也就是我們167萬家中小微企業請問部長是否也認同呢"},{"start":11772.478,"end":11792.272,"text":"我們這一次的這個確實啊這個傷害比較大的層面是這個傳統產業也就是說這個中小微企業啦但是沒有到167萬家啦報告委員我們大概會比較辛苦的就是有幾個產業是 大概是哪幾個呢它是蘇美的"},{"start":11793.012,"end":11797.613,"text":"他做東西做起來是不會去美國的 出口的如果去大陸就沒有了所以美國在佔我們所有出口的部分但是你是認同中小23%而已所以這23%也很嚴重那你167萬加的23%也不是小數字呢對 23%裡面有一半又是我們伺服器"},{"start":11816.658,"end":11820.799,"text":"嚴肅的來檢視這個880億怎麼花啊你裡面喔報告裡面我有看到啦四大措施就是外銷貸款優惠中小微貸款加碼研發轉型補助還有涉展示中心拓展海外市場那部長我想要請教你如果假設企業訂單被取消現金流中斷員工薪水付不出來的時候"},{"start":11844.106,"end":11868.555,"text":"這四項措施有哪一項可以馬上解決問題呢我們對這個所謂的他如果是做出口的我們有幾個措施就是說他出口貸款可以做融資就是說他已經有訂單但是這些貨可能在船上或者是貨打包然後結果被通知停止出貨那既這一部分我們會給他一些資源"},{"start":11869.755,"end":11874.557,"text":"什麼樣的資源是補貼嗎直接型補貼嗎我們就是給他一些貸款啊貸款這就是我想要提出的問題了就是說可以貸款可以設點可以升級研發這其實是在補助還是在補刀因為中小企業最怕的不是沒有競爭力是撐不到可以競爭的那一天貸款也是債啊銀行也要審啊還要評估啊他們現在最缺的是解決眼前問題的這個活水"},{"start":11899.928,"end":11927.045,"text":"不是增加他們的這個負擔所以我是希望說是不是有可能將部分貸款的額度轉為直接型的補助來紓解他們現在的壓力尤其對於資金鏈中斷者能夠優先處理報告員你所關心的這個地方我們都從簡從素從優來處理希望從簡從素從優所以我們過去可能要搞一個月的我都要求他們兩天就要完成"},{"start":11927.965,"end":11948.175,"text":"所以這個我想我們從簡從適從優好謝謝謝謝部長有這樣子的決心喔那我想要請教部長目前有掌握多少家中小企業的這個訂單被終止或者是有類似的危機呢我們現在在進行訪談我們也就是說不用這個我必須要講今天雲林縣政府在"},{"start":11951.477,"end":11953.399,"text":"召集這些產業要討論目前遇到的問題但是你經濟部現在派不出人去參加因為我們每一個人都動員也是要派人去啊有的人在這裡有的人在別的委員會有的人到"},{"start":11965.896,"end":11984.047,"text":"那我很願意當這個橋樑我會去聽我也會把問題整合帶回來但也希望說另外有一個困難就是紓困的問題現在現行的紓困是有門檻的就是說要15%的營收衰退才能符合紓困門檻我想請你複展都取消了取消嗎所以這條線是已經取消了嗎都取消了"},{"start":11987.589,"end":12005.912,"text":"太好了因為我本來就想提醒部長說很多中小企業他本來就是唯利在經營甚至營收他跌個10%他可能就虧損了所以這一點希望部長能夠體諒他們我剛才講過了重塑 重優 重減所以不會有這些條款的限制"},{"start":12007.088,"end":12012.951,"text":"希望說我們所有經濟部能夠站在這個我們所有產業的角色來感受到他們的這個困難因為包括他們面臨的取消訂單 貨卡在港口 訂金拿不出來這些狀況其實也希望說我們經濟部這邊能夠趕快掌握最及時的最及時的因為呢"},{"start":12030.6,"end":12039.13,"text":"我們今天的質詢呢其實也是一個意見交流不只指出問題也希望真的有機會為我們這些企業爭取到改變那中小企業呢是我們台灣經濟的根基是數百萬家庭的這個支柱那這個"},{"start":12047.961,"end":12052.026,"text":"也許您說不算是國難只是說是一個危機但是國難當前的現在需要我們部長還有經濟部所有的官員拿出智慧然後拿出這個決斷力跟這個良知那我想"},{"start":12062.918,"end":12079.283,"text":"我們大家一起努力我們一起努力我在這個地方有一個部分暫你一點點小時間我跟你報告就是說大家很擔心說我現在東西在船上啦我在怎麼樣怎麼樣我在這邊再報告一次4月5號以前在台灣出貨的走船的是"},{"start":12080.163,"end":12104.736,"text":"都沒有問題 5月27號以前到達美國直接報關了就不受影響 是4月5號到4月9號 因為他宣布了然後這個部分是10%然後4月9號 也就是今天以後才on board那對不起 就是32%所以大家在擔心說 啊我現在準備4、5天空電了然後我有什麼東西 不知道怎麼樣"},{"start":12105.816,"end":12125.508,"text":"跟委員報告 跟大家報告就是原來的稅率這個我們會在經濟部的網站上面跟經濟部的這個公告上面可能要盡速啦 盡速因為很多人現在是非常的恐慌非常的擔憂所以如果可以盡速把它也許今天下午你就把它PO上網很多中小企業他看了他會比較安心那我也希望說"},{"start":12131.611,"end":12148.961,"text":"既然今天部長有這個決心就是要從速從寬來協助我們這些中小企業本企業比較安心我也希望說我們可以共同努力為他們開闢一條更寬鬆的道路那因為這不只是救企業也是救台灣的忠誠民眾好嗎謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請洪孟楷委員做詢答"},{"start":12166.274,"end":12168.256,"text":"好主席謝謝麻煩請我們經濟部長跟國發會主委國部長劉主委"},{"start":12177.418,"end":12201.54,"text":"好 部長好 主委好我想美國關稅的因應全世界大家都一起面對那當然台灣兩千三百五十萬人我們共同努力因為這不會分朝野 不會分黨派但其中一個部分我想現在因為我們也有代表團現在正在美國要準備要談判嘛 對不對都有溝通嘛 是不是好 那"},{"start":12202.421,"end":12230.509,"text":"其中一個很大的關鍵我覺得到目前為止我們還沒有聽到我們政府部門的一個說法我想也在這邊救教就是美國總統川普他用一個大帽子對等關稅那他先拿出來講是說因為台灣剋美國64%關稅所以要砍一半變32%但我們這幾天也都陸陸續續看到我們也認為說不可能有那麼高關稅嘛這是第一點第二點也有媒體報導講是說這公式是算錯了"},{"start":12231.311,"end":12249.427,"text":"那我想請教我們自己現在盤點到底台灣對美國的產品也好相關的關稅我們到底實際課多少我們實際跟美國差的關稅不到3%3%我們就相差不是不是相差是我講的是說他講64嘛是"},{"start":12251.417,"end":12275.278,"text":"對不對美國總統川普先講那個64是用那個粗糙跟對整體他的計算方式是這樣子嘛所以他就是用這個來變成是說是32嘛對不對他就變成是說要求我們要變成是32的關稅嘛那我們現在就對美國對進到台灣到底多少關稅各產品我們最高"},{"start":12276.385,"end":12295.453,"text":"因為這就不符合對等我們平均跟委員報告我們平均對美國的課的關稅大概是6.5%6.5%嗎 對不對對阿美國對我們是3.2還是3.4所以他現在變成是說他不管用什麼樣的理由他現在從原本現在3點多要一次提高10倍變32"},{"start":12296.954,"end":12312.213,"text":"他也不是說10倍啦 他就是用那個入鈔齁來除這個整個的 是嘛部長我理解 但是我們是說外面 因為他的公式拿出來而他先用這個大帽子來扣下來 所以他"},{"start":12313.594,"end":12339.404,"text":"說實在話我覺得這就是變成是我們談判的底氣以及我們談判的策略你要怎麼樣拆掉他的大帽子他講了一個64因為他這個是一體適用對全球各個國家都是用這個方法來讓大家上去跟他談判但是他的談判的目的大概不外乎幾個第一個可能是解決他貿易失衡的問題"},{"start":12339.944,"end":12350.744,"text":"是就逆差的部分第二個解決他金融失衡的問題第三個解決他的國債問題國家對解決他國家製造空中化的問題大概就是這三個問題"},{"start":12352.079,"end":12377.137,"text":"那為什麼要用關稅呢關稅你就是剛才我想這個委員也指教的很好就是他這個金融的問題國債的問題所以他需要一點Cash所以這個Cash就是從關稅來說是最快或者從投資來說是最快所以我們是不是已經嚴正的讓美方知道其實到現在為止它不是一個對等關稅因為我們收美國是所以"},{"start":12381.421,"end":12403.59,"text":"連這個所謂我們賴清德總統也提出來說現在要雙方研議甚至往零關稅的方向但實際上來講我們收美國只有6%報告委員我想總統的意思是說從零關稅開始談起對對對這是我們的底牌有一些這個就談判的籌碼Give and Take如果他沒有進來我們台灣的"},{"start":12405.117,"end":12426.537,"text":"我們台灣也沒有輸出去日本的先談 大家都是零嘛這個談判的一部分啦我給委員報告 這個我們都總體的盤過了所以我們談判小組 他們會收集各部門各個各界的這個建議他們會綜合考量以後呢然後就像剛才委員所指導的"},{"start":12427.478,"end":12448.201,"text":"然後他們會去跟美國做一些更細膩的談判好那部長你剛剛提到就說已經都整體的盤過我想我們國人也期待因為畢竟從上禮拜宣布到現在今天中午12點要生效我們也期待說政府部門已經有掌握我們目前的狀況那幾個部分我再跟您就教第一"},{"start":12448.921,"end":12474.384,"text":"藥品目前是還沒有宣布藥品跟半導體都還沒有宣布藥品跟半導體什麼時候會宣布他們要計算這個美國是如何去計算他會參考這樣的一個過程但目前我們還是沒有辦法得知我們其實這個就是因為這一次的這個變數太大就是我想我們雖然有盤但是現在不敢再先講因為這是談判的一部分"},{"start":12474.744,"end":12491.145,"text":"好那第二個部分預計何時我們真的能夠上談判桌我們有沒有掌握確知我們現在是第一群的人但現在媒體報導不管是媒體報導或說我們當然希望我們能夠儘速上談判桌嘛"},{"start":12491.963,"end":12507.205,"text":"我想在商業考量在國家考量尤其是我們在這一次這個對於我們國家來講這其實很重的一個方向32%我想都是跟委員所擔心的是一樣但是我們不能夠跟大家講"},{"start":12508.95,"end":12537.117,"text":"確確的數字因為這個會移情其他的在那個LINE上面的人不高興嘛然後會講說為什麼他台灣會到前面沒關係確實我們有在等待有機會談判我們希望啦希望這是在前面談判好那第三關鍵的部分也是今天我們這個專案報告的一個方向就是說中小企業中南部有一些這個零組件的相關也都現在已經有"},{"start":12538.017,"end":12560.098,"text":"紓困的部分跟這個轉型的部分我們都有掌握您剛才已經有講到是說有盤點了有掌握現在會有多少家的一個企業已經有宣布因為其實最近我也不希望人心惶惶其實部長這一點我要提出來的就是因為現在有人已經有看到新聞有哪一家已經有放無薪假等等的那到底實際狀況為何"},{"start":12561.679,"end":12576.517,"text":"報告委員我們現在就是透過兩個管道在收集這個資訊一個就是我們自己經濟部的同仁一家一家去拜訪這是一個管道另外一個因為怕這個太慢所以我們有開放那個call center讓他們打電話進來工業區的部分工業區"},{"start":12581.682,"end":12603.67,"text":"因為其實經濟部下面工業區有66個工業區所有我們都有服務中心是那我們就開放這個服務中心讓區內的廠商但部長我們現在66個工業區裡面的廠商狀況廠商的狀況還有這個外部的我們都在調查而且我想一步一步調查我們會了解因為每一家的這個情況不會一樣"},{"start":12604.79,"end":12621.005,"text":"所以你一個措施下去不一定每天都有效啦我是希望能夠對症下藥他需要我們協助什麼到底是金融的紓困還是我們幫他訂單的轉移或者是他將來技術的提升我想這個是不同的層次部長當然"},{"start":12621.786,"end":12648.635,"text":"您剛剛提到對症下藥這就是本席想要請教以及今天為什麼我們早晚會排這樣的一個專報其實我們都希望對症下藥但到目前為止我們想要了解說至少你從大方向經濟部下面的工業區66個工業區裡面廠商的部分一定是更加連結我可以理解跟同意中小企業它沒有辦法你完全同時間掌握但你先從大方向著手"},{"start":12649.375,"end":12670.105,"text":"工業區裡面先掌握到底現在裡面是不是真的有所謂的停止訂單是不是有所謂的這個調整是不是有所謂的無薪假這一點總是可以先做做完之後你才有辦法把你的政策再拿出來嘛否則我們上禮拜看到先講到一個所謂的特別700億經濟部農業部180億所以總共880億當然"},{"start":12674.867,"end":12701.565,"text":"合理的預算運用我們都不會反對我們也都希望能夠當台灣中小企業的後盾但重點在於是說把錢怎麼樣用在刀口上這是我們現在所關注的我們現在880億是根據過去的經驗推論出來的一個數目字但是我想我們院長有特別的交代也就是說希望我們盤點具體的這個出來以後那如果有需要增加預算"},{"start":12702.145,"end":12726.854,"text":"那麼我們會再提第二次的好 所以部長我給一個比較具體的建議因為這個禮拜五也已經排定了行政院長做特別預算的專案報告在下午的時間我們朝野黨團也都有代表要去做質詢所以這一個部分請經濟部的同仁真的一定要掌握因為我相信在禮拜五的時候一定還會有委員也詢問到不管是特別預算數額夠不夠"},{"start":12728.454,"end":12743.426,"text":"災情的狀況怎麼樣以及現在充其場面到底有多廣多少中小企業現在面臨到什麼樣的困境我想這一些部分也都需要在專案報告的時候好好的說明所以委員吹詢的部分我們會馬上來準備謝謝我們現在請劉書斌委員做詢問"},{"start":12764.39,"end":12767.393,"text":"那我要請經濟部的郭部長郭部長您好辛苦了您今天上午都在備群那這一部分我們現在看到今天我們看到的是會到這邊有這個報告最重要就是因為美國對我們這樣的一個對等的關稅的要求那看上個禮拜也看到說"},{"start":12793.424,"end":12820.674,"text":"左宗泰的政府已經有提供了880億的這樣的一個因應對策那其中看到是經濟部有410億對吧那這個情況是這樣我們繼續往下看那我想要詢問的是說在下一頁看到的是美國在下一頁在美國的這個台灣對美國的貿易概況當中最主要的是這大概七八樣產業在於資通 電子 民主建這些部分就是已經有大概65%的這樣的一個情形"},{"start":12822.975,"end":12836.45,"text":"好 那我們想要問到的是因為從經濟日報上面的一個報導當中它所呈現出來的是說呢我們跟其他國家很不一樣的是在於我們很多是屬於半成品的內容好 那我就想說請上一頁"},{"start":12837.972,"end":12858.003,"text":"但在上一頁當中所看到的是說電子資訊產品在這邊有792億的這個美元當中這邊可不可以請部長說明一下這個部分你再點一下是不是這個就是大部分都是屬於我們的是不是屬於真的是半成品你可以大致說一下嗎就是在剛才或是剛才的那幾類七八類當中"},{"start":12859.969,"end":12872.805,"text":"報告委員我想這裡面呢因為電子資訊的產品它是屬於零組件的部分是那像這個顯示卡這個伺服器也都是在某一個部分的一個這個"},{"start":12875.067,"end":12902.237,"text":"組件所以這一部分這些金額其實都是台灣的優勢商品都是台灣的優勢商品也就是說是美國的廠商委託台灣的業者幫他製造的所以這個32%的稅金只有兩個現象一個就是美國的廠商自己吸收第二個我們會幫助他們走這個9903的這個特別條款"},{"start":12904.785,"end":12927.054,"text":"這個條款裡面上面有寫明註明只要這裡面有20%這個美國的成分那麼它就可以豁免所以我們是在找各種的方法幫助台灣的業者可以暫時不適用這樣的一個條款第二個呢有很多的廠商他比較擔心那我現在已經出貨了會不會打碎"},{"start":12927.634,"end":12952.623,"text":"因為我剛才有聽過的我們再往下一頁我剛才很高興聽到部長您有說到就是說尤其是在電子自動產品當中是屬於半成品的地方很多那也就試著要爭取說有這20%是屬於美國製造的這部分的話那就是用貨品關稅那就是我下一頁的地方就是要談到的是在說就是請大家請經濟部或是我們國家在做對美的這個談判當中要加重這一邊尤其這個互補性"},{"start":12954.163,"end":12972.355,"text":"這部分呢那是全球供應業的角色在台灣裡面的不可或缺所以已經往這邊降低關稅或爭取豁免我覺得國家政府這邊往這邊走是值得肯定的好謝謝然後在下一個部分呢我想要談的這個重點在於說因為您在報告當中有提到就是在下來部分下下"},{"start":12973.732,"end":13002.385,"text":"重點在於說要去增加因為增加說對多元的一種配備這個多元開拓市場就對了因為從這個資料剛剛看到了2018年的時候其實是有大概是大概是40%左右的這樣子的一個對中跟對美那後來中有向下來那美國又上升的但是現在2024年的時候我們看到的是它已經增加到的是43%增加多了"},{"start":13002.765,"end":13030.558,"text":"所以你的多元分散其中還是在集中在中國跟美國的情況之下呢這個部分是在把雞蛋放在一個籃子上面那我想要詢問的是說既然這是有100億要作為開拓的多元市場那請問新市場的這個對象國是在哪裡那這樣我們有競爭力嗎這是個重點我們在新市場的地方大概是放在三個地方第一個就是歐洲第二個印度土耳其哇"},{"start":13032.028,"end":13052.062,"text":"好謝謝這是非常好那基本上真的很可行那現在就是目標性就往這邊去就對了是好謝謝那非常好就要得到這個看到讓廠商會有這樣的一個希望那另外我們再往下看齁這個部分我想要請國防會主委羅主委請你上台一下那同樣就是這個部長你請在旁邊這部分羅主委"},{"start":13052.842,"end":13071.105,"text":"那同樣的情況之下問一下那對於這邊也是說要調整供應鏈嘛這是國發會的報告嘛那這種情況之下你跟經濟部的合作分工狀況是怎麼樣還有在要特別去提升AI競爭力那國科會當中呢也有好不然就講國科會的分工好了就請你做跟經濟部的分工是怎麼樣"},{"start":13073.288,"end":13091.196,"text":"我們是做中長期整理計畫之後我們就會跟經濟部、國科會、速發部這些只要在這個計畫內有相關的部會我們都會進行協商、分工、執行然後我們國安會是負責整合的部分所以你是做整合的部分那請問你們預算是多少呢"},{"start":13092.781,"end":13108.871,"text":"現在這整個預算還在規劃之中那我們規劃完之後會跟院提出來一個整體的計劃報告之後我們就會會有預算的需求就會提出來希望說下禮拜 而是說禮拜五的時候就看到行政院長報告之後可能也有出現"},{"start":13109.531,"end":13130.06,"text":"好 那在下一個部分的時候也是兩位的報告 兩個部會的部分報告當中就提說要增加所謂的補助研發的這個轉型那經濟部長就說您這兩百億有當作是加值台灣的中小型企業嘛那這邊我也想要請問的是說那這個部分跟國科會當中的百工百業數位轉型我覺得這方向是對的 那你們怎麼進行請 部長"},{"start":13133.772,"end":13151.053,"text":"在這部分200億的重點我們其實是放在我們的法人機構法人機構在做一些這個發展跟製造的部分在develop包括工研院包括我們的金屬工芯然後我們過去只是教"},{"start":13153.195,"end":13175.612,"text":"讓這個業者學但是我們要讓他習跟做就是讓他學習然後會操作新的這個技術這個是我們重點所以我們要建立很多的這個習作的場域跟買很多可以AI使用的這個設備其實我們有一個轉型的這個資料這個我們大概如果這個委員有"},{"start":13176.632,"end":13200.585,"text":"希望經濟部提供給我來做參考謝謝同樣的問國發會這邊你們是有提升AI競爭力提升船廠的經費這部分國發會這邊也是屬於整合嗎還是扮演什麼角色還有您跟4月4號3號之前的AI競爭力有什麼不同因為被人家說是舊瓶裝新瓶舊酒裝新瓶而已"},{"start":13204.049,"end":13229.66,"text":"這個是是這樣子的齁這個本來就我們就有編列公務預算在執行這個部分那我們還是以國家費還是整合的單位齁那還是由部會來實際執行那這個但是因為針對對等關稅的影響我們會擴大這個部分的支出跟方案那經費還是還沒有預算盤點我們希望對我們現在在爭取更多的預算來做這件事"},{"start":13230.169,"end":13245.95,"text":"所以在特別預算的部分要加入對不對對我們希望是這樣好那就謝謝兩位部會首長這邊非常辛苦來就讓這個全民來做一個這樣的分析解說謝謝好謝謝好謝謝我們現在請李光誠委員做詢答"},{"start":13258.314,"end":13262.08,"text":"謝謝主席我們請經濟部的郭部長還有國發會的劉主委"},{"start":13269.987,"end":13298.531,"text":"部長跟主委都辛苦了最近這幾天為了美國關稅的事情相信大家都卯足全力在做這件事情可是其實因為我在財政委員會我在關稅還沒有公布之前其實不論是央行或是財政部都沒有提到會有課到32%這麼高的關稅所以這個32%的關稅出來之後有沒有超乎你們的預期"},{"start":13300.18,"end":13328.574,"text":"報告委員我想這個整體的營業小組來講我們在做評估的時候是有算到35%有算到35%高標是35%那你們高標的35%是按照川普這種方式算出來的嗎因為他是算貿易逆差的不是我們有各種這個評估的方法各種評估的方法所以你們那時候算出來有最高到35%但是不是像川普這種算法就對了川普這種算法有沒有在你們的這個"},{"start":13330.001,"end":13356.379,"text":"評估裡面他是一個比較舊的計算方式比較舊的計算方式應該好像是19400還是什麼時候的一個計算方式好那請教一下那就是說現在早上很多委員都很關心就是說接下來要跟這個美國談判嘛因為4月9號其實12點台灣的關稅其實就算是生效了嘛我們就是算是課32%了對不對"},{"start":13359.264,"end":13383.908,"text":"就是今天開始出貨的就是32%今天開始出貨的到美國的就是算32%那你剛有提到啦就是說有什麼在船上的然後之前已經出貨的有一個時間的算法就對了那請問一下那現在我們跟美國的談判我剛看這個委員在問已經有接上線了而且是排在前面在談了"},{"start":13385.188,"end":13408.749,"text":"我們當然在這個line上面我們應該是排在前面啦但是還沒有正式談還沒有正式談好那其實川普的算法也很簡單貿易逆差這麼大他要的就是第一個你就是多買美國貨那第二個呢就是減少這個逆差就是擴大去美國投資嘛那這兩點的話目前我們做什麼樣的準備"},{"start":13410.305,"end":13424.777,"text":"我們擴大買美國的東西這個部分我想我們都有在盤點然後實際依照國內的情形以不傷害國內的廠商的利益為主我們進行擴大對美國的採購"},{"start":13427.679,"end":13444.252,"text":"因為我們採購的東西不是只有美國一個國家我們有很多其他的國家採購的東西我們可以稍微來在這上面做一些調整但民間的企業的部分我們比較沒有算到我們這一次但是我們在國營的企業"},{"start":13445.712,"end":13470.97,"text":"我們的機構所需要的採購我們可以調整方向比如說大家可能關心的能源的問題能源問題可以攻擊的國家蠻多的所以根據在目前的這個階段我們就是擴大對美國的採購比如像天然氣比如說像天然氣其他的部分也有OK好那現在開始對中國的關稅是課到這個104%"},{"start":13475.009,"end":13478.041,"text":"那我們還是有台商在那邊那這樣對台商的影響咧"},{"start":13479.246,"end":13507.847,"text":"我們大概希望是這樣子就是說對在這件事件會影響到我們的台商在中國的台商或者在東南亞的台商那我們可能就是有兩個方向來幫助他們第一個就協助他們轉移不賣到美國賣到其他的國家因為美國畢竟佔整個這個全球的這個貿易市場沒有那麼大所以他還有其他的市場可以去"},{"start":13509.69,"end":13532.304,"text":"去銷售這是幫助他第二個如果他的產品是以美國為重點那我們有兩個方式第一個就請他回來台灣製造台灣生產這個是優先第二個如果他是需要美國那邊的資源的他的市場跟資源都在美國那我們協助他"},{"start":13533.405,"end":13562.404,"text":"到美國去透過我的之前跟大家報告的境外關內也就是說由我們政府跟美國政府來共同成立一個管理機構協助我們台商可以快速的出海落地然後在那個地方做一站式的我們做一站式的服務讓他們可以避免一些行政上面往來的時間過去在美國要設一個工廠最快要四年"},{"start":13563.683,"end":13588.799,"text":"但是如果說我們用這個統一在這個行政的這樣的一個服務的話大概可以縮短成兩年你這樣講是比較長期的耶大概要花一年到兩年的時間所以短期的話我們希望他轉移市場幫他調整訂單轉移市場另外一個報告委員另外一個如果他的產品在美國由我們台灣的廠商在製造的"},{"start":13590.16,"end":13617.014,"text":"我們請他幫台灣的品牌做OEM然後他市場上面照樣用他自己的品牌去銷售但是製造請我們台商在美國的同業幫他製造這說得通嗎?通了嗎?通通是通啊有跟他們講過了嗎?有跟他們講過了嗎?這個我們在之前我們在這件事情之前就已經跟很多的業者在討論了"},{"start":13618.476,"end":13647.139,"text":"因為其實我們的網通設備我們的PC我們的筆電伺服器手機零件這個會受到很大的影響啊這個不見得我跟委員報告台灣的很多的廠商是做EMS他很多做EMS或是幫人家代工所以那個稅是由美國的客戶在繳所以你說這樣子課了104%的關稅對台灣的這些台商影響不大對台灣的才有對台灣的才有"},{"start":13647.947,"end":13659.911,"text":"好 我最後問一下就是說對於經濟的影響這個彭博他有說到他就說台灣對美國的出口可能會銳減63%導致對台灣GDP下滑約3.8%這個劉主委是不是可以答一下"},{"start":13665.28,"end":13674.285,"text":"因為他這個數字出來其實還蠻震撼的其實目前我們有委託專業機構進行研究目前出來的數字是減少0.43到1.610.43到1.61這是在"},{"start":13680.915,"end":13702.384,"text":"關稅確定32發之後算了嗎?對確定關稅之後我們委外研究的我們現在是在委託另外一家研究機構做第二次的檢核那所以沒有像這個什麼彭博他們所講的這一個會掉了這麼多就對了對目前是出來的數字是沒有好我再問最後就是其實這881比較是像是這一個"},{"start":13706.249,"end":13708.858,"text":"讓台灣的廠商能夠渡過難關那我請問一下是881夠嗎"},{"start":13713.298,"end":13740.031,"text":"880億其實它是一個可以隨時在市狀況再進行調整的我是覺得是880億可能還不夠雖然我不知道說談判的情況是怎麼樣但是這個短時間你用880億因為我不知道這個數字最後怎麼算出來的700是屬於工業部門 180是屬於這個農業部門但是我直覺啦我直覺這個對廠商來講可能還不夠啦那你們有沒有想說這個再爭取再多一點部長"},{"start":13742.944,"end":13763.42,"text":"報告委員我想881是我們有一個假設的稅率啦可能造成了這個影響所以我們大概881你說假設的稅率是多少這是我們有一個假設的這個抱歉在這個地方不能夠來談因為現在還在談判嘛所以這個部分只能X好不好X的話我們大概881是夠的高於這個X"},{"start":13767.148,"end":13779.011,"text":"那881就像您所說的可能不夠我們會有第二次的特別預算所以是希望881就夠用就對了以下以下好 OK好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主委好 謝謝現在請鐘嘉斌委員做詢答"},{"start":13796.717,"end":13805.438,"text":"主席 在場的委員 現屆列席的政府機關總統 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請郭部長跟劉主委郭部長 劉主委"},{"start":13813.154,"end":13838.778,"text":"委員好 部長好 主委好兩位都是經貿財政的專家 容我班門弄斧今天我的題目是台灣要擴大對美採購 要降低美國對台的貿易逆差而且要嚴防中國起產地 避免遭美國圍堵我來先表述一下大家這幾天緊張的事情請問部長你認為川普總統 美國總統他要解決什麼問題他最面之在之的是什麼"},{"start":13839.741,"end":13853.164,"text":"報告委員我想他解決三個問題但是念之再之的是他的這個金融失控的問題是然後呢然後再來就是貿易失衡的問題第三個解決製造空通化的問題很好"},{"start":13854.008,"end":13871.783,"text":"大概跟我的很接近我覺得他要解決美國的赤字哪兩種赤字貿易赤字跟財政赤字貿易赤字主要來源是包括中國在內的不對等貿易就是逆差財政赤字他要削減政府支出要增加財政收入我這樣講 劉主委認為有沒有符合川普的目前的想法"},{"start":13873.084,"end":13888.678,"text":"有的 好 我們來看還有他解決他目前中低階階的結業機會是 很好 那製造他就會往下看來 川普開出各國不等的關稅清單目的是什麼大家都不合理啊部長你覺得他的目的是什麼"},{"start":13890.12,"end":13916.277,"text":"一句話他的目的他的目的就叫你繳關稅啊我覺得不是這樣他要你上談判桌因為不合理嘛所以你會跟他argue嘛所以你要上談判桌但是談判的目的是什麼呢兩個目的第一他要維持對中國的高關稅第二他希望他的貿易主要對手友邦他建立一個零關稅的自由貿易同盟來對抗中國你認為我這個推測合理嗎 劉主委"},{"start":13919.653,"end":13943.998,"text":"我想這是一個選項之一但是我很樂觀的認為他不是要跟其他的貿易對手課高關稅他是要叫你調低零關稅我就跟你成為一個零關稅的自由貿易同盟然後我們都對中國圍堵好往下看如果零關稅同盟圍堵中國產生什麼結果呢第一本來消亡美國的中國貨被同盟國取代因為中國高關稅嘛"},{"start":13945.219,"end":13965.491,"text":"本來很有競爭力的 現在呢 盟國是零關稅所以盟國就取代銷往美國的中國貨 是不是這樣子 部長可以這樣的 這個方向來討論但是同樣的 中國也對你美國高關稅啊所以美國貨銷不到同盟國去 他要銷給誰銷給零關稅的同盟國嘛 是不是這樣子"},{"start":13967.034,"end":13984.246,"text":"我們都是零關稅同盲,所以他賣給我們,好,往下看所以美國輸台,如果是零關稅,能改善美國的貿易逆差嗎?有兩個可能一個是有的產品會啊,真的零關稅之後我們就跟美國買啊部長是不是這樣?什麼會跟美國買?主委你覺得哪個會跟美國買?零關稅後會有一些產品的確我直接跟你講,我來自農業圈,我們很擔心的,農產品"},{"start":13993.952,"end":14011.984,"text":"黃小玉啊這些牛奶乳製品啊還有什麼還有這些其他的美國的出口大宗那我們要因應產業衝擊明天會問農業部但是有的產品不會什麼產品不會我請教一下美國車跟日本車都零關稅你覺得國人會買美國車還是日本車我直接講好了我想很多人都會選擇還是買日本車所以零關稅也不見得能解決美國銷台的輸售問題就要擴大採購往下看"},{"start":14024.028,"end":14051.471,"text":"所以我在3月17號就建議要加大對美的採購其實最美採購的大家第一宗就是什麼 能源嘛所以部長 現在我們台電跟台灣中油是不是有擴大要跟美國採購天然氣有可能沒有 有可能 好 很好但是為什麼台灣過去不買呢因為跟澳洲買比較便宜啊 至少運匯便宜啊運匯跟關稅有沒有關係 沒有關係啊就算零關稅 我跟澳洲買運匯便宜啊 跟美國買運匯貴 所以"},{"start":14053.112,"end":14077.426,"text":"成本會提高 應經部要不要因應台電買比較貴的電纜器又要不影響電價經濟部要不要因應 部長要不要因應這一部分我想我們會擴大評估啦從成本的概念 從時間的方面都可以評估好 下一頁但是 好啦 我們解決了對美擴大採購問題之後日月難都降到零關稅了 為什麼美國認為還不夠"},{"start":14079.352,"end":14092.618,"text":"部長你覺得呢他這裡面有很多就是國家補助啊國家補助還有一個最重要的如果越南跟美國之間是零關稅但是越南跟中國也是零關稅中國就洗越南的產地去美國啊有沒有辦法防堵"},{"start":14094.056,"end":14118.751,"text":"美國要防堵中國有沒有辦法防堵 不行除了我們之間彼此零關稅你越南要跟中國要建立一個關稅壁壘或非關稅壁壘 是不是這樣子你點頭嘛 往下看所以說台灣也要擔心美國我相信我們可以跟美國彼此零關稅這個希望可能很高但是當我們跟美國零關稅美國還是會把酒勤勤的在打什麼中國產品有沒有透過你台灣洗產地啊請問 部長"},{"start":14122.011,"end":14149.284,"text":"有沒有這個過去的實例 有嘛從中國進口建設機到台灣來交貨其實又貼什麼 改標籤嘛養殖的東西 水產品透過活魚搬運跑到台灣來 有沒有有的是賣過去 有的是賣過來有沒有 好 往下看所以部長台灣輸出美國的主要商品有哪些你們有沒有統計你說產品的產品我們賣給美國的東西主要是半導體電子產業"},{"start":14151.038,"end":14169.646,"text":"五金零件還有呢比較優勢的就是半導體嘛然後電子相關的零組件然後還有汽車零件的這個部分那一旦零關稅之後呢台灣很多的產品就更具有競爭力可以到美國市場了但是美國會擔心啊你的上游供應員有沒有來自中國是不是這樣子"},{"start":14170.694,"end":14190.419,"text":"我們現在大概因為跟美國在談就是飛鴻供應鏈是我是意思說我們要注意到當美國這樣看越南的時候零關稅還不夠的時候我們台灣也要遇到當我們也跟他零關稅之後他還是會檢視你輸出到美國的東西有沒有含有中國成分是是這樣嗎是主委你同意嗎"},{"start":14193.252,"end":14209.098,"text":"這是有可能的所以我做個結論其實這次我個人認為川普先生他主要的目的要解決美國的赤字包括貿易赤字跟財政赤字在貿易赤字部分最大的對手就是中國造成的不公平的貿易因此他要求"},{"start":14209.958,"end":14235.675,"text":"主要的貿易對手跟他成立一個零關稅的自由貿易同盟要求彼此之間零關稅那麼讓同盟的產品可以取代美國市場上的中國貨另外呢他也希望同盟國開放你的國內市場讓我美國商品銷售但是由於美國商品有他的非關稅因素台灣可能必須特定的去進行大量的採購另外當台灣想要對美國零關稅的時候美國也會嚴格防止"},{"start":14236.275,"end":14256.076,"text":"我們台灣消美的產品有沒有含有中國成分所以結論請經濟部盤點消美的主要產品上游的供應鏈是不是含有中國製品可以嗎可以而且要提出調整對策因為我知道我們有很多的產業它是跟中國有一個供應鏈的關係一定要提出對策可以嗎這個是主委的事情嗎"},{"start":14257.536,"end":14271.073,"text":"這部長的事情部長可以嗎我現在在交代他們馬上謝謝馬上處理可能我下午就拿到了好那麼就謝謝部長謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝我們現在請蔡義渝召委做巡打"},{"start":14286.257,"end":14289.703,"text":"好謝謝主席那我們有請經濟部部長跟國發會我們劉主委好"},{"start":14300.189,"end":14319.183,"text":"部長跟主委那針對這一次的美國對等關稅那當然對台灣課32%那現在有很多的討論包括我們跟美國之間是不是走到零關稅或者是我們擴大對美國採購能源的相關項目來緩和我們對美國的貿易順差"},{"start":14321.425,"end":14335.212,"text":"但是我覺得這個都是比較長遠的事情因為談判現在才剛開始但是在談判的這個過程中部長你覺得有可能爭取到在談判期間讓這個32%的這個關稅的一個啟動時間讓他暫緩嗎"},{"start":14342.842,"end":14358.958,"text":"這一點有沒有信心爭取到?這個是我們的期許啦我們的期許嘛對不對對啊但是這個決定權在美國所以我們當然要去爭取但所以我就擔心了我就擔心了說如果萬一在4月9號前我們沒有爭取到這一個關稅32%的啟動"},{"start":14361.981,"end":14376.689,"text":"那現階段馬上台灣的台廠就要面對一個問題,就是說我要出口到美國的,我可能現在正在專櫃,我可能現在正在海上,我們回去的時候過去這個關稅如果課的話,應該是由在美國的那一方要負責這個32%"},{"start":14384.713,"end":14394.301,"text":"但是他現在就會說 哇這個32%下去 我不合他爪子給我們台廠公 不然延後出貨我延後給你拿 還是我爪子沒了"},{"start":14396.42,"end":14421.202,"text":"所以這會馬上面對一個問題這個台廠就是說我這裡的費水斷掉了那你也知道我們事實上台灣如果做代工為主的一些產業的話他這裡代工的東西又涉及到了所謂有智慧財產權有IP的一個限制我們同樣的這些貨除了出到這個訂單下訂單的國家要轉售出去還會受到IP的限制"},{"start":14422.043,"end":14451.187,"text":"所以這個會有雙重的一個打擊所以我要具體的請教部長說我們要幫這個企業就是要讓主席賭到的總控所以如果他們在跟美國的廠商在談判32%如果沒辦法順利的時候政府可以做怎樣的協助來我想要請教部長報告委員我想這個現在已經過了12點12點過後以後就適用這個32%的稅率但是12點之前出貨的一個禮拜前出貨的"},{"start":14452.755,"end":14463.948,"text":"五月二十七號到美國他打十趴啦一個拜訪出席 都教官來的稅率啦所以一個拜訪出席的意思是說為什麼要處理 是說告美國 還是我們準賽處理就算啦"},{"start":14468.292,"end":14481.505,"text":"5月27日那天就是說4月15日以前出席5月27日可以告美國的這都是早晚的稅率要早晚的稅率如果4月15日到4月19日跟今天中午之前出的90%現在已經持續12天了這個時候出席去美國的"},{"start":14487.125,"end":14498.033,"text":"要加30% 要加30%所以因為這個情形 所以我們很輕鬆已經收到美國那邊的通緝暫緩出貨 暫緩出貨嘛 暫緩出貨很多廠商就這樣跟我反映啊對 這個部分造成它的金融頂頭的問題是我們都有準備要如何讓它紓困"},{"start":14512.683,"end":14538.123,"text":"要怎麼讓他能夠就寢離瀉就寢的時候 特別是中小銀行來說中小企業 他要把我們的貸款 把我們的中小企業的貸款我們都會給予一些重寬 重塑 重減的方式來協助他們市長 所以你這說的很重要的就是說雨天不能說散"},{"start":14539.749,"end":14551.634,"text":"現在大家很擔心啦,我們現在真的是很擔心,就是第一類他們現在暫緩出貨,這些東西就囤在他們那裡,所以他們後面他們的生產所也會對這個出問題喔,所以這個事情一旦拖久了,這個32%客在那邊又暫緩出貨,對他們的整個生產線,然後他們的資金調動,整個就卡住了"},{"start":14561.778,"end":14583.676,"text":"所以台廠會馬上面對的這都是一連串的一個問題所以第一類我們對於他們在於說這種短期的需要這個貸款需求的雨天不能收傘第二個部長你剛剛講的重塑重減這件事情要怎麼做一個落實然後第三個就是我們880億我們除了現在想像的到的農漁牧產品會受到首當其衝在未來的談判中"},{"start":14588.56,"end":14607.757,"text":"農漁牧產品大概是受傷最嚴重的第二個就是這880億能不能具體用在協助廠商在這個時候給他給予他們更多利息的一個優惠讓他們一旦有獲利因為卡掉了他們真的這個倉儲成本啊或者是他們的生產線不順的時候"},{"start":14609.819,"end":14623.611,"text":"這個時候我覺得我們經濟部應該都要下鄉跟很多廠商 愛做堂會 愛做堂會 大家要知道他們現在的狀況 實際上要判斷起來 到底我們台灣的企業有多少因為這個延後出貨 因為這個32% 目前他們的商品是調遷的 我覺得這個都要趕快去了解"},{"start":14629.036,"end":14642.87,"text":"是 報告委員我們現在的做法是這樣子我們園區管理局有66個園區裡面的廠商是數千家數萬家我們是透過園區管理局先了解區內的廠商的需求"},{"start":14644.071,"end":14655.723,"text":"第二個我們有開設這個call center這個馬上辦服務中心在我們中小企業署上面然後我們會啟動讓他們打電話來詢問他們的問題"},{"start":14659.927,"end":14679.005,"text":"我們也啟動這個說如果需要的話請他我們一對一的來輔導他了解他到底他的問題是怎麼樣子那該紓困的紓困該輔導的輔導我想我們這一次啟動的除了快速的去了解問題然後我們希望能夠對症下藥"},{"start":14679.445,"end":14708.428,"text":"好 部長那你剛剛講到的就是說我們可能會針對現在國內62個這個我們的產業園區這是經濟部管轄的產業園區但是部長也許你也不要忘了事實上台灣有很多隱形冠軍他們是在早期沒有進到園區裡面甚至就是包括說我們公布法通過的有很多這些農地工廠事實上現在農地工廠除了土地跟他們的建物還沒有辦法合法之外他們的生產力是很高的"},{"start":14709.408,"end":14729.018,"text":"他們都是台灣的隱形冠軍我認為雨天不應該收場的也應該都是包括他們報告委員我們不是只有針對我們自己的園區我們會跟各地方的工業會來舉辦座談或者是直接去拜訪就是有需要我們協助的我們是優先處理"},{"start":14730.318,"end":14754.367,"text":"對於那個產業的發展因為不是每一家公司都對美國的這個關稅會有影響不是每一家都會去美國但是可能會有連帶的擴散會有一些擴散的影響所以我們基本上是防止一波的往外擴散真正對需要協助的廠商可以快速的協助所以部長我是再次呼籲"},{"start":14755.447,"end":14773.9,"text":"因為我們現在要說零關稅現在要說擴大對美的一個採購這個真的是比較長遠的方向但是現階段就是要趕快扶持這些產業面對馬上的衝擊這件事很要緊所以我希望部隊包括我們主委真的要跟廠商有機會就叫他們包括他們有很多的同業工會就叫他們來講叫他們來協助"},{"start":14783.627,"end":14812.706,"text":"從過去就一直進行啦 我想這個要加速這個危機讓他們先渡過你看一下事實上如果以台灣這個台股來說你看這幾天還不斷的在看起來還在跌啦事實上台灣的廠商在這一次32%的衝擊很大因為我們的產品很多都是在產業鏈的一環裡面既然在這個產業鏈的一環他就很少廠商可以說他完全置身事外"},{"start":14813.687,"end":14818.129,"text":"算他雖然是一個很細胞 可能若是這種東西不然就一樣就是會調查好不好 部長是好 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請黃國昌委員做詢答謝謝主席 有請部長郭部長"},{"start":14845.509,"end":14874.031,"text":"委員好部長好,那個川普政府對台灣客家的32%的高關稅生效了沒有?嗯?川普政府啊,對我國的產品客家的32%的高關稅生效了沒有?從現在12點,今天的12點開始生效對嘛,我剛剛在下面聽有委員問你,說要爭取要延緩生效你還說你會盡量努力我坐在下面聽完全聽不懂啊現在就已經生效啦"},{"start":14874.943,"end":14898.67,"text":"第二個,我們目前針對有關於高關稅產業衝擊影響評估做好了沒有?我們有做了已經做好了嗎?什麼時候可以提供給所有的委員?影響評估我們都有評估對可能衝擊的產業做法因為我們到現在拿不到我們的網站都有公告公告在網站上面?"},{"start":14900.267,"end":14923.093,"text":"我們具體的行政院的部分要14號才會出來14號才會出來經濟部這樣講好了行政院的部分14號才會出來院長禮拜五就要來這邊報告了我們那天去行政院開會的時候我跟院長要衝擊影響評估他們說做好了我請他們提供到現在也沒拿到"},{"start":14924.747,"end":14936.998,"text":"所以就經濟部的部分已經先做好了是嗎那惠後部長可以提供嗎惠後部長可以提供嗎好那就請今天惠後部長提供我們進一步談針對賴總統所主張的零關稅經濟部的立場怎麼樣 讚不讚成"},{"start":14942.779,"end":14961.103,"text":"零關稅開始談判不是零關稅支持不支持這個由我們的談判小組他們去處理所以這個由談判小組來決定而不是由經濟部這邊經濟部是提供資訊讓整體的在政策的立場上面從零關稅開始談 部長您贊不贊成零關稅"},{"start":14965.416,"end":14982.318,"text":"開始談當然贊成當然贊成嘛那如果跟美國針對有關於從零關稅開始談的這件事情你認為台灣政府應該表達的形式是什麼所以表達的形式是我們主動把關稅降下來還是要簽自由貿易協定"},{"start":14983.359,"end":15010.307,"text":"我們當然是以自由貿易協定為我們前提啦機率高不高我們沒有辦法判斷沒有辦法判斷嘛好那我們先澄清一個問題假設如果不是簽BTA的話假設啦如果不是簽BTA的話我們把關稅對美國的部分把它降下來了其他國家是不是要一體適用這個部分我們談判不會朝這個WTO的這個條款去談"},{"start":15011.653,"end":15018.188,"text":"我們該跟美國談這個就是台美之間的這個決定是啊是啊那個部長那個WTO相關的規範你應該還熟吧"},{"start":15020.083,"end":15049.343,"text":"還好嘛對嘛好那如果沒有BTA的話我們對美國降關稅對其他國家其他國家主張用最惠國待遇原則要怎麼辦不會啊我們這次談判應該是不朝那個方向那個是我們跟美國談嘛跟其他國家根本沒有在談這件事嘛我們談判的單位不可能說以傷害國內的這個權益為止當然我了解是所以嘛我才一直強調嘛為什麼我們在跟美國談的時候希望能夠爭取到BTA嘛"},{"start":15050.263,"end":15059.833,"text":"你如果沒有爭取到BTA的話在WTO的架構下那不就是有最惠國待遇原則嗎我講的應該沒有錯啊這個是很基本的事情啊"},{"start":15061.508,"end":15090.237,"text":"現在我擔心的就是什麼我並沒有說委員你是錯的對啦我們還是回到問題的基點嘛如果沒有簽到BTA我們對美國降關稅其他國家不能援引嗎其他國家會援引啊那個衝擊影響啊是遠遠超乎喔現在我們在政府所估算的範圍行政院所提供給委員們的那份報告您看過沒有您看過沒有我不是委員所以我沒有看過"},{"start":15090.842,"end":15110.044,"text":"所以行政院在提那個報告給委員的時候你也沒有參與我不是委員啊所以我不會收到不是啊 那是行政院出來的報告啊那個是行政院出來的報告你是經濟部部長你還不熟喔我是經濟部部長所以我只熟經濟部的部分所以就經濟部的部分提供給委員的部分你看過沒有"},{"start":15111.519,"end":15123.77,"text":"我們送出去給行政院的報告我當然看過啦但行政院送什麼給我們你不清楚就對了行政院調整過他會調整嘛是所以那一部分我沒有看嘛沒關係啊但我不是委員嘛所以我看不到部長"},{"start":15124.636,"end":15153.694,"text":"你趕快看啊星期五的時候你就要陪院長啊到這邊啊來進行報告了我給你善意啊的提醒第二個部分啊針對美國貿易代表署啊在計算關稅的這個公式你看過了嗎我知道你知道嗎你贊不贊成這個公式這個我我贊不贊成我當然是不是不贊成啊那你覺得這個公式有什麼問題這個公式當然我不是數學家啦所以我沒有辦法回答你這個問題"},{"start":15154.827,"end":15182.278,"text":"不是啊 可是你剛剛已經說你不贊成啦我不贊成不代表我懂所以這個公式你也看不懂嗎這個公式我就是看不懂所以不贊成OK 好非常好喔過去啊 這段時間啊你的反應啊可能下面有些人會覺得很有趣但我覺得蠻嚴肅的為什麼蠻嚴肅的因為連川普總統啊自己的支持者一個大企業家他也說他看不懂"},{"start":15183.22,"end":15207.972,"text":"他完全看不懂這個公式代表的是什麼這也是為什麼我們行政院第一時間會說這個公式不合理嘛要不然我們的行政院院長怎麼會出來說這個公式不合理怎麼會課台灣這麼高的關稅那這個對我國接下來跟美國之間的談判非常的重要啊因為如果美國貿易代表署把這個公式寫在他們的官方文件上面就是我們所看到的這個嘛"},{"start":15209.281,"end":15232.443,"text":"就我們所看到的這一個 它已經寫在官方文件上啦所以它重要的兩個係數 一個是Epsilon 一個是Phi就是在那個數學的公式上 但是剛剛部長你也說了嘛這個公式你不是很熟 那沒有關係 我就不要跟部長進一步討論啦接下來在美國經濟學界對這個公式討論 大家所舉出來的問題"},{"start":15233.824,"end":15262.23,"text":"時間的關係我最後只問一件事情剛剛有委員提到台灣遭受到美國關切的是不是有台灣的廠商在幫忙洗產地部長這個部分你有掌握嗎我們有掌握你們有掌握你們也不允許這些廠商來台灣洗廠地絕對不允許嗎不允許OK好 那個時間的關係我最後只提醒一件事情那個國發會的主委您坐在下面嗎"},{"start":15266.454,"end":15295.288,"text":"是不是可以請主委齁是不是可以請主委其他的不肖廠商做這種事情我們沒辦法容忍嘛但我們國發基金所投資的公司絕對不應該做這種事情主委贊不贊成呃我贊成你贊成嘛好主委我們會來清查清查清查喔國發基金投資的公司有沒有在幫中國的廠商洗產地國發基金清查需要多久"},{"start":15297.334,"end":15314.261,"text":"國發基金我們會發文出去然後看廠商的一個禮拜之內請他們回覆好不好可以請所有國發基金投資的公司切解喔有沒有在幫中國產品洗產地請他們一個禮拜之後回覆把答案提供給所有委員好不好好的好謝謝謝謝我們現在請牛許廷委員做詢問"},{"start":15325.286,"end":15350.17,"text":"謝謝主席 郭部長有請郭部長委員好 部長午安這個大家都關心這個美國關稅大刀一下來造成的一個衝擊剛剛那個奇奇怪怪的公式講白那就是美國用他的貿易逆差去算嘛對不對 其實部長心裡清楚啦也不用踩著明白裝糊塗但我今天要問的是"},{"start":15350.69,"end":15374.13,"text":"今天大家都問範論也就是說比如說881夠不夠以及等等但是我想大部分的中小企業也好甚至再往下到各個勞工也好最焦慮最擔心的還是跟自己的關係是什麼所以今天我們花一點點時間我們就挑一個產業來跟部長做深入的討論我想先請問部長現在我們的賴總統講說我們要以零關稅為基礎重新去談判這個零關稅有沒有包含汽車產業"},{"start":15375.896,"end":15396.247,"text":"我想所有的關稅總統既然宣布是由零關稅開始談起這通通包含嘛這通通包含所以包含對不對通通包含好現在我想部長你也很清楚啦現在普遍台灣的消費者我們從消費者的角度來講其實對於汽車關稅他們也是反對的嘛他們也覺得說保護國內產業幾十年好像也弄不出像樣的東西以及等等"},{"start":15396.667,"end":15424.682,"text":"不如讓大家有機會買便宜的進口車這樣的聲音其實你做個民調其實就知道搞不好是壓倒性的多數這是從消費者的立場來看但我請問部長那為什麼過去我們要維持對汽車產業的保護課相對比較高的關稅報告委員齁我們國內還是有國內的這個汽車產業啦那大概就業的人口有十幾萬就是一個很急速的降稅那他們可能就馬上沒有工作"},{"start":15425.302,"end":15441.622,"text":"沒錯嘛我想過去在這個關稅上面其實基於保護這些從業的人所以其實你是照顧國內產業跟國內就業甚至保護國內勞工的角度來做這樣的規範對不對所以跟什麼哪個品牌怎麼樣其實沒有什麼直接的關係對不對好那我今天就問這個問題"},{"start":15443.184,"end":15458.598,"text":"現在剛剛已經講因為賴總統的宣示基本上是所有的產業都包含在內剛剛黃國昌委員等等其實也都有提到如果你一旦降了汽車關稅其他可能要求你准用WTO的最惠國待遇也就是說他當然就一去就不回頭了那我想請問針對汽車產業的調節跟衝擊的影響評估這個"},{"start":15462.782,"end":15478.896,"text":"包含汽車不是只有大家都講裕隆、納智捷嘛然後都說他們很爛對不對所以我們今天不做評論但是也不只啦還有中華汽車有國瑞等等他其實都是國產車的代表好或不好今天不在這裡做論斷但是這樣子的叫做汽車的整車製造就本席的了解啦這樣子的這個產業的從業人數5.2萬人"},{"start":15481.972,"end":15493.047,"text":"還不只是有整車製造那請問部長或者是你後面下面的這些幕僚知不知道零組件的產業大概有幾家從業的人數有多少"},{"start":15494.7,"end":15510.926,"text":"零組件的廠商其實跟委員報告這個就是你如果是primary market可能我們有的廠商受的傷害不會很大但是我們有一個after market的廠商其實蠻強的"},{"start":15512.605,"end":15541.372,"text":"就有些他競爭力強有些競爭力但總體來講因為我們今天如果要討論880億處理全台灣的產業那一定是不清楚的嘛但有幾個有兩千多億的這個產值產值兩千多億至少有一點數據做基礎因為現在大家討論如果關稅降下來汽車產業會被衝擊農業會被衝擊今天應該針對這些特別被點名的產業的產業鏈的衝擊影響評估要有更詳細的報告這是我今天希望看到的我們是有報告齁如果這個需要的話我們今天下午就可以送給今天下午OK"},{"start":15541.852,"end":15547.44,"text":"就本席目前的了解啦目前的了解全台灣的這樣子的國內的汽車產業鏈喔這個整車製造我剛剛講過了從業人數5.2萬人佔整體汽車產業就業人口17.3%零組件供應有超過2000家的各式各樣零組件的廠商"},{"start":15557.895,"end":15575.207,"text":"它當然有些強勢有些弱勢但他們的共同身份是什麼中小企業嘛你今天討論我們難道不需要針對特定的業別做更多的調查嗎這樣子的一些從業者你剛剛講產值2000億從業的人數就本身現有的資料啦你官方有更精準的資料沒有關係從業人數24.8萬人佔整體汽車產業直接佔就業人口82.7%"},{"start":15580.251,"end":15605.825,"text":"加起來整車製造跟零組件上下游加起來大概總共有30萬的就業人口可能會因為汽車關稅的鬆綁受到一定的衝擊我現在請問經濟部詳細的數據比如說這2000多家或包含整車製造他們會調多少單有沒有哪些產業被衝擊到會直接有裁員或者是無薪假的狀況你們現在有沒有掌握報告委員我想我們現在就是說有做一些這個情境的分析"},{"start":15606.994,"end":15613.237,"text":"那台灣也不會因為說這個零關稅以後進口車大家都來買進口車然後這個國內車我想我們會幫助國內這些廠商來做轉型"},{"start":15619.949,"end":15641.955,"text":"即使今天因為時間有限啊但因為沒關係後面還有專案報告我們都還有總諮詢但我希望經濟部做好準備啦特別針對幾個已經被擺上檯面的產業你總要有詳細的數據嘛我們才會知道說這881要怎麼下它是單純的補貼還是怎麼樣因為你881只是講大方向沒有意思嘛我本席最關心的不外乎就是掉多少單有沒有人會失業啊"},{"start":15642.535,"end":15663.189,"text":"我們有多少人因為這樣失去工作或是要放無薪假請問你政府的錢有沒有到這些人的口袋裡去減輕衝擊嘛你如果對各產業鏈的分析不夠了解的時候你當然就我們就無從知道這881下的有沒有價值或者是需不需要增加所以我至少我們今天很有意義因為部長講這個今天下午我們就會拿到汽車產業鏈的相關的衝擊分析報告對不對我再確認一次"},{"start":15664.246,"end":15675.579,"text":"好不好 那就麻煩經濟部提供資料不只是汽車啦 我也提醒其他相關的 電子零組件 農產品等等都要有分門別類的報告而且盡量要讓立法委員來參考要公開透明好不好"},{"start":15678.864,"end":15701.77,"text":"農業部獨立啦沒關係但你經濟部所有的我會送給你農業部也應該要有啦但沒關係今天這個就不為難你就是今天的這個我們有做了一份報告你就把相關的報告就送交而且這位知道其實在你禮拜五的這個說明的時候他其實越詳細越好這樣大家在未來在審查這個預算要不要放行的時候你也會有更多的說明的依據可以嗎謝謝委員好謝謝部長好謝謝我們現在請林倩祺委做詢答"},{"start":15718.367,"end":15724.071,"text":"谢谢张伟主席福音同仁大家好我现在请一下我们的郭部长郭部长"},{"start":15729.102,"end":15746.268,"text":"部長好 辛苦了今天中午就如同您剛才講的12點開始美國的這個32%的關稅已經生效了當然在他公布的時候我們就知道對台灣的整個造成很大的衝擊那尤其是我們以這個出國"},{"start":15747.708,"end":15768.659,"text":"出口為主的導向的一個產業那直接對我們的實質打擊是非常大的那剛才幾位議員這邊也提到了一個相關的訊息我這邊就不多贅述那今天呢實踐的關係我想針對我們整個實質打擊然後所產生的衝擊兩個大象來跟您做一個探討那第一個部分是"},{"start":15771.358,"end":15788.358,"text":"長期我們對於衝擊跟產業的一個處理常常都以升級轉型的政策來做因應那在這一波的衝擊下那這樣一個方式我們能夠怎麼樣實質的產生一些效果"},{"start":15789.099,"end":15810.591,"text":"那第二個部分的是我們的產業結構其實很早就受到高地價高人力成本跟環保高環保要求的這個壓力的這個多重擠壓我們的產業線已經也有一些外移但是在現階段美國這樣子高關稅的衝擊其實在這個部分又寫上加雙所以今天最主要這兩個"},{"start":15811.852,"end":15831.782,"text":"重點那剛才因為也有委員談到你們應該相關的在你的轄下可以掌控而且比較了解的相關產業你應該也做了一些衝擊的分析那我也提醒一下這個會後也請提供給本席所以剛才本席所談的這兩個部分那汽車產業其實我們不僅有這個整個產業鏈的一個狀況衝擊的這個狀況那"},{"start":15840.826,"end":15855.114,"text":"當然當然有一些委員提到那是不是很多人就認為可以買到比較便宜的美國汽車那這是一種想法但是我這邊跟您做一下交流也就是說我們整個"},{"start":15856.294,"end":15881.321,"text":"是不是有機會來設置汽車供應鏈的這個重整基金然後協助轉向內需跟新興市場然後解決剛才其實大家都知道的整個汽車產業鏈的問題我不知道您對這個看法上是謝謝委員指導我想在這個汽車的部分確實台灣因為這個市場很小台灣大概一年只能有這個"},{"start":15883.061,"end":15890.711,"text":"二十幾萬台的這個需求那我們現在大概就在收集這個資訊短期裡面我們現在這個舊的車超過20年以上的車聽說有100多萬輛"},{"start":15902.81,"end":15919.443,"text":"那我們希望就是以新換舊以新換舊然後來把這個市場讓出來不打擊我們國內的這個原有的這個製造製造T我們台灣有很多的我們有六大廠商在台灣製造大概二十幾萬台"},{"start":15920.263,"end":15948,"text":"那我想这个以新代旧的这个部分推出来我们可能就是把货物税拿掉然后让它具有竞争力然后来换旧那第二个呢就是说美国会进来的车美国会进来的车不是只有美国品牌的车不是只有福特Cadillac它可能会进来现在包括连韩国的车都到美国去设厂那么日本的车也在美国设厂他们都会进来"},{"start":15948.96,"end":15956.25,"text":"所以在台灣的我們要解決這20幾萬的從業人員我們當然有很多的方法台灣的電子零組件非常強"},{"start":15957.446,"end":15982.282,"text":"所以我們都在幫助這些廠商希望他回到他的 譬如說日本然後我們跟日本的主廠跟他談說欸 台灣可不可以幫你做這個電動車但是這樣看起來其實有很多細節這邊要做相關的談判跟處理嘛對 但是美國的這個談判我們能夠談多久然後能夠是不是就只談到零我們是從零開始談"},{"start":15983.343,"end":16001.114,"text":"所以我們這個會議談到一個美國可以接受的然後這個裡面也牽扯到時間是不是馬上立馬就是0或者是立馬跟美國一樣2.5這個不一定我們這是談判的手法但是我們的目標跟委員報告我們的目標就是幫助國內的產業"},{"start":16007.506,"end":16023.017,"text":"不能夠萎縮不能夠讓國內產業部長我這邊剛才其實也提到在過去的方法上都是所謂的財政補助或單點的技術升級但是這對整個系統性的風險您覺得有幫助嗎我們現在重新盤點提出能夠因應現況的對策大概跟過去不會一樣"},{"start":16032.683,"end":16050.699,"text":"所以本席希望這個部分能夠更積極的作為啦那另外當然其實有很多細節的這個問題沒有辦法在這邊細談但是對於目前傳產面對高地價高人力高環保壓力那這個部分你怎麼看這個結構性的挑戰那我這邊有個例子啦就是你們在過去的這個輔導上"},{"start":16052.04,"end":16073.619,"text":"今年114年你們整合資源的升級轉型也就是你們過去都對單點但是整合性的做起來好像稍微不是力道不是那麼強所以你們在整個升級轉型總共才41筆而且是專注在個別企業導入相關的數位工具還有升級設備但是整個產業整體的這個規劃"},{"start":16076.021,"end":16088.855,"text":"好像沒有很明確那怎麼樣因應外來的這樣這麼大的關稅的衝擊呢那這個部分你們有沒有一些想法能夠跳脫過去這個效能不彰的這樣子的輔導跟單點的補助呢"},{"start":16091.909,"end":16117.219,"text":"專家企業署的部分我是不請署長跟你回報可能很快的回報 時間有限大概零三十秒針對我剛才講的那個部分你們現在欠缺系統性的處理而且很多時候都是這個數位升級也就是你們補助跟輔導的東西不痛不癢所以你沒有系統性的一個處理因應外來的 我們現在所碰到的衝擊我不認為你們的效度能夠去因應 您的看法"},{"start":16117.759,"end":16136.274,"text":"是 包委員這一點我們每年都在加強改進特別針對產業所面臨的不同的樣態的問題我們會針對這個問題也就是廠商所需要解決的到底是在智慧的生產或是它數位能力的提升或是它要怎麼樣進一步節能減碳這就是我說的問題就是廠商會提出單點的問題然後你們針對他們單點的問題可是就國家而言我們是有力道可以去處理一個系統性跟整個產業的別"},{"start":16145.842,"end":16165.491,"text":"那你們可能在這個數據上有沒有掌握然後再來在過去的這樣一個支持上或投入輔導上或因應企業的需求有沒有做更有效能的一個規劃這個是我需要知道的一個答案把每一個處理的方式變成一個模組變成一個具體的一個個案然後把這個個案把它盡量朝向"},{"start":16166.411,"end":16195.538,"text":"推廣 推廣的方式 讓更多的中小企業推廣在產業的部分 你是要有一些效能跟結果所以要想他們能夠產生具體的中小然後更多的中小企業所以說是不是 針對這個部分你如果有比較具體的報告會後給本席做一個提供好不好那你應該聽得懂本席所擔憂的跟所提出的建議是的我這邊假設是這樣嘛好 那就先這樣子 好不好謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請陳冠廷委員做詢答"},{"start":16220.884,"end":16222.545,"text":"麻烦请部长过部长"},{"start":16230.066,"end":16236.793,"text":"委員好 部長好部長我剛剛看到幾位委員都非常重視這個因應關稅的這個方案"},{"start":16239.756,"end":16263.732,"text":"同樣的我也想要請教我們現在這個880億的這個支持方案裡面我們就工業的六大面向700億來討論700億的討論來我想先請教一下是不是4月5號出船之前是用原稅率然後5月27號前然後抵美報關的話就是用之前的這個稅率我們大概有三種情境"},{"start":16265.066,"end":16289.121,"text":"那這個主要的這個情境是這樣就是4月5號以前從台灣出貨的on board那麼按照原稅率如果4月5號到4月9號也就是4月中午以後然後到4月9號中午大概加10%的這個稅率那如果說今天剛剛12點過現在一個小時前現在出貨的話要32%"},{"start":16294.107,"end":16318.159,"text":"我們為什麼要重視這些數字因為現在它的影響是即時的所以我們需要即時有效的政策去對應那我看這700億的部分提升產業競爭力的這個研發轉型它是由高達200億那另外一部分是爭取海外訂單包含紙項目有補助海外新設展示中心大概有100多億"},{"start":16319.946,"end":16324.593,"text":"我就這些部分想要請教部長這些是長期的還是短期的應對方案"},{"start":16326.902,"end":16349.858,"text":"這個海外的部分也有短期也有長期因為我想我們現在必須要替受到衝擊的這些廠商找到新的訂單對部長我同意但是我要強調的是我們現在要面臨的是即時的有效的應對所以我看到這個工業的六大面向是四項措施裡面我看到的金融支持"},{"start":16350.518,"end":16371.213,"text":"金融支持包含這個融資利率的減碼還有輸出保費的優惠中小微型企業的貸款加碼這個是應該要提高的要降低行政成本的當然也是要提高的但是提升產業競爭力開拓多元市場我們現在講的是這個月今年我們馬上面到了這個關稅的變局是數十年來從來沒有這樣的大變局我想請教一下部長"},{"start":16372.332,"end":16393.559,"text":"你會不會認為說這一些700億的預算它的優先次序是不是要做一些調整我特別還要提到你們的安定就業這個部分因為它排在最後一項第六項但是其實它的影響是最最最最重大的所以想請部長回應一下報導委員我們第一個第一個優先的動作就是紓困"},{"start":16395.205,"end":16419.983,"text":"疏解這些中小微企業他面臨到的財務上面的危機包括他被欠單包括他被post fund這些訂單包括他可能因為這樣子這個業者希望他能夠到5月以後再去出貨明確的台灣的這個稅率這個稅率確定了以後才會讓他出貨我想這些都是"},{"start":16421.084,"end":16443.016,"text":"造成產業上面在財務的調度上面可能會出了一點問題那我們第一個就是紓困特別是小跟微的企業那大型的企業經過我們盤過的幾個大型的企業包括電子相關的這些產業他們可能做的是EMS可能做的是OEM對他們來講我們都確認過"},{"start":16445.037,"end":16463.655,"text":"他们的影响不大所以我们现在这个800亿的部分700亿的部分是完全针对这个中小微企业那第一个先以纾困为主各种方法那所以我们呢希望能够在这个所有的方法里面能够重塑重减"},{"start":16465.421,"end":16485.88,"text":"來幫助他們好部長這很重要因為我看到上面的這些資源的配置來看的話提升競爭力研發轉型這種比較偏向這種國發會的長期的機會是200億喔所以說我們在有限的資源下面怎麼樣的調度剛才部長說紓困優先同時經濟部也是作為整個這一個方案的主導的部門"},{"start":16486.48,"end":16514.34,"text":"所以我是希望說調整一下看怎麼樣可以針對你剛剛講到的中小型企業最直接的幫助你剛剛提到的紓困方案它的資源配置不應該是最少反而是應該是最多的但是我們剛剛看到700億光是有300億就是在長期的促進產業的發展我覺得這個要做一些調整是 報告委員當我們在這個一般來講我們看的是這個廠商它其實是非常順利在運作"},{"start":16515.501,"end":16543.197,"text":"那基本上我們會讓他調適一些訂單因為畢竟美國不是占他全部大概只有20幾個百分比好那就是你剛剛提到的開拓市場的部分那想再請教一下開拓市場的部分我們現在能夠某方面美國是不可能被取代的某方面能夠替代的這個市場還是以歐洲國家為主是不是我們大概有三個方向就是說第一個是歐洲的市場大概這些部分都是工具區跟這個構建的部分"},{"start":16543.857,"end":16562.656,"text":"歐洲市場再來就是印度再來就是這個土耳其好這三個市場裡面特別是歐洲市場它的消費能力是比較接近美國的更加要放重心在上面那最後這一個部分我是請經濟部要回去研擬一下因為這一次的關稅它是針對"},{"start":16563.877,"end":16590.931,"text":"不是只有非盟友他是針對盟友是美國的盟友也包含在內所以包含日韓台灣歐盟全部都在他的這個裡面都被課徵高關稅所以未來會不會影響飛鴻的這個供應鏈這個要怎麼樣應對我希望這是我不知道經濟部門有沒有先想好那我也認為說張偉未來也可以派類似這樣子的會議我現在講的飛鴻供應鏈已經受到威脅了"},{"start":16591.411,"end":16616.211,"text":"所以这个部分是我们主要的命题所以在这个变数进来这个关税的变数进来以后当然我们会调整好 谢谢谢谢委员好 谢谢我们现在请黄建斌委员做询答好 谢谢主席最后我们有请我们郭部长郭部长"},{"start":16623.607,"end":16650.26,"text":"委員好部長好部長這是第一次本席跟部長見面那部長您身為我國能源政策的主管機關的首長那本席有注意到您上任以來對於再生能源政策的一些說法在去年9月的時候您上任不久就剛才說過風電國產化的限制8年已經差不多了會朝著開放的方向來努力那希望國內外的廠商都能夠雙贏"},{"start":16651.32,"end":16669.498,"text":"那後來你又拋出說要在菲律賓蓋電廠的計畫把綠電送回台灣也造成非常多的討論那我們經濟部在三個月經濟委員會的專案報告裡面也有提出說可行性評估的報告認為菲律賓中間是可行的並特別的提到當地的陸域風電評估有龐大的開發潛力"},{"start":16672.837,"end":16699.491,"text":"另外部長在備詢的時候也有說經濟部正在啟動新的計畫像我們澎湖地區可能會設置太陽能光電或者是陸域的風電要送回台灣這些相關的計畫都還在報行政許可當中所以看起來部長您對於我國發展風電尤其是陸域風電這一塊你的態度是很支持的那前部長除了澎湖以外我們經濟部目前還有打算在其他區推動相關這個陸域風電的計畫嗎"},{"start":16702.204,"end":16702.686,"text":"我想這個臺灣因為這個"},{"start":16706.226,"end":16729.823,"text":"地狹人稠所以這個陸域風電能夠設置的地方其實並不多但是我們認為這個陸域風電是一個可以使用的部分所以我們現在除了澎湖繼續來在無人島上面建立這個陸域風電以外當然我們在探討台灣還有什麼其他地區可以來設置陸域風電不過"},{"start":16731.784,"end":16759.427,"text":"我們接著會去考慮我們在海外地區 臨接台灣的地方有沒有設置陸域風電的場域如果有設置陸域風電的場域因為它的陸域風電成本是相對的非常的低所以我們如果可以把這些產生的電力送回來我相信會讓我們現在面臨到的窘境因為我們必須要有再生能源"},{"start":16760.007,"end":16771.438,"text":"來support我們的這個綠能所以這個部分我想是我們在努力的一個方向所以部長對陸域風電這塊其實蠻有信心你很支持嘛對不對信不信 部長也很支持這一塊吧"},{"start":16773.683,"end":16793.724,"text":"我們都是依規定在進行這個所有的這個拓展OK好 部長謝謝部長部長其實本期監修基金委員會最主要的原因就是跟你強烈表達台東人的心聲喔不知道部長你有沒有注意到有一個風力發電的業者最近要在想要在台東縣整個海岸縣從北到南176公里從長濱鄉成功鎮"},{"start":16796.567,"end":16811.84,"text":"泰瑪里鄉 大武鄉到達人鄉要設置將近60座的大型風力發電機那這個計畫已經在我們環境部的這個網站公告了那這個網站這個消息一公告之後引起台東鄉親強烈的反彈"},{"start":16813.081,"end":16831.155,"text":"那先不跟我在第一時間內也表達反對我想台東的海景是全國國人都知道的無敵海景最美麗的海岸線那你一旦插滿了這大型的風車那我們引以為傲的美景可能就完全破壞那更重要的可能會衝擊當地的生態"},{"start":16832.296,"end":16850.872,"text":"那也影響到這些區域都是我們原住民的傳統理念也影響到我們原住民的一些文化那我們甚至看到業者的規劃案裡面有些風力發電機的位置它竟然在學校附近學校這個低頻的噪音跟輻射波會影響到我們這些偏鄉的小孩還有當地的居民"},{"start":16851.753,"end":16880.496,"text":"那除了本席跟台東縣政府已經明確的表達我們的反對的意思之外那不經沒有經過同意就是不同意未經過我們共識的封建開發案破壞台東的環境這個我們都有表達強的意思而且有許多鄉鎮長民大家都反對而且還有鄉親發起的自救會那代表當地的居民非常明確表達就是沒有經過同意的共識這些封建會毀了我們台東那本席在下午也"},{"start":16881.437,"end":16905.363,"text":"公開的號召連署不到24小時我們這個連署名單已經到1000人以台東人口結構來說這個時間非常的快速就達到連署數目原本我今天本期堅保的帳板要回到台東參加台東縣議會有一場召開跟鄉鎮展跟民意代表跟自救會在的一場說明會不過我們飛機在天空繞了兩圈之後回到松山趕快跑過來跟部長也來表達這個儀式"},{"start":16907.003,"end":16934.172,"text":"那我想對風電業者打算在我們台東海岸線發展路易工電環境部昨天已經發表聲明他特別強調風電開發的許可是由經濟部核發的那根據環評的流程開發單位必須先在環境部的評論論壇公開發表訊息收集意見完成環評書之後送交經濟部那這要經濟部正式轉送環境部進行實質的審查"},{"start":16936.092,"end":16964.176,"text":"簡單的來說就是環境部的意思就是說這個案子的出審機關在經濟部所以在這裡我還想要具體的請教部長你是否支持風電在台東海岸線來開發是不是有聽見台東鄉親的聲音願意阻止這個沒有經過共識的風電開發案報告委員我們如果接受的條件是地方政府要同意如果台東縣政府不同意我們也不可能同意"},{"start":16965.339,"end":16987.184,"text":"包括我們民眾的聲音部長這邊都能夠所以台東縣政府是我們第一關這個會不會同意的一個最基礎的評論所以這部長的意思台東縣政府已經表達沒有經過共識的開發他是反對所以這個部分經濟部這邊就會停掉我當然是會接受嘛中央跟地方是合作的謝謝部長的回應所以這次真的"},{"start":16989.885,"end":17015.882,"text":"我這樣在空中飛兩圈回來台北絕對值得得到部長這樣的答案那最後是還是要跟部長強烈來表達我們身為能源政策的主管機關經濟部能源我們在發展再生能源的同時也要兼顧我們當地居民的感受最重要是我們避免破壞環境的破壞因為這個錯誤的政策如果沒有經過選址同意這樣子貿然的做決定是斷送整個美麗台東海岸線的這個未來的"},{"start":17017.643,"end":17041.828,"text":"整個發展喔那我想未來如果有類似的案子本席一定要站在第一線嚴格的監督我們中央機關那這邊也要我要跟部長強烈表達我們會守護台東鄉親的這個權益照顧我們台東居保持台東這塊美麗的土地也希望部長跟我們一起來加油那以上謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝我們現在請徐副科委員做詢答"},{"start":17052.992,"end":17055.979,"text":"謝謝主席 有請我們郭部長郭部長"},{"start":17064.813,"end":17087.482,"text":"委員好部長辛苦我想部長也是來自屏東也長期關心屏東的一個產業發展部長我想針對這一次美國關稅的部分那當然對於這個鋼鐵電子跟工具機的部分造成一個出口導向產業的直接衝擊那這不是不僅是一個國際貿易的一個議題更是產業鏈穩定跟國際信任危機一個壓力測試部長同意這個論調嗎"},{"start":17094.685,"end":17122.655,"text":"是部長那我想針對屏東縣的一個產業發展我們過去在農業生技漁機製造還有零組件的加工還有鋼鐵的一個零配件的供應鏈部分我想我們也扮演一定的重要的一個角色那面對這樣一個全球供應鏈一個變局那部長身為屏東人未來怎麼樣去協助這個用這個881的部分怎麼樣來協助屏東縣的中小企業來渡過難關"},{"start":17124.155,"end":17145.268,"text":"報告委員,我想我們這一個紓困的這個方案,這881大概都是針對中小微企業給他們紓困使用那至於說將來的要做轉型啊,或者是訂單移轉啊,在各方面如果說這些紓困費用是不夠的我們當然會另外再編列,包括紓困費用會加碼"},{"start":17146.869,"end":17170.06,"text":"所以這個變數是在於說我們現在的談判單位在談32%的稅率可以降到多少這個是他們在談的所以我們現在的881是第一個階段因為我們不知道可以談到多少所以我們先編881如果談下來的稅率有各種不同的連動"},{"start":17172.481,"end":17186.038,"text":"那如果不夠 880億是不夠來疏解我們的中小企業我們的小微企業他們的轉型或者是提升他們的轉移訂單的這個市場那麼我們會繼續再加碼那長遠來講的話我對平衡鄉親來講的話有上限嗎"},{"start":17192.595,"end":17195.057,"text":"應該是不會有上限因為對國內企業的安定跟國內企業的穩定是最重要的部分總統也有指示應該是擴大在台灣業者的"},{"start":17212.25,"end":17221.507,"text":"強化它的競爭力所以這個部分只要是我們國內的產業我們都會全心全力的來幫助它提升它的競爭力"},{"start":17223.103,"end":17248.893,"text":"部長那就一個國際這個我想你本身是來自於業界就這個我們企業這個發展的過程裡面部長認為這個出口導向的這個發展性有沒有什麼樣需要調整的一個方向跟委員報告這個我想從過去的全球製造化自由化的這個貿易行為大概在最近因為這個地緣政治的關係或者是極端氣候的影響"},{"start":17250.373,"end":17274.16,"text":"所以现在大概比较转向这个区域经济学的这个时代那这个我们对这个整个台湾在做出国贸易的时候我们必须要更精准的找到我们可以发展的这个区域所以美国当然是我们一个很重要的因为我们的基础是互补的美国也是做这个研发研究"},{"start":17275.2,"end":17288.438,"text":"但是它的發電做得不算很厲害那個行善也不算很厲害這個部分傳來台灣台灣做這個研究跟行善發電我們是在那邊研究可能不太講但是我們對於這個發電"},{"start":17290.541,"end":17315.197,"text":"跟製造這是我們台灣的優勢所以我們國家必須要針對我們自己的優勢發展所有的行善的供應鏈包括產品的供應鏈所以這個是我們一個非常重要的命題我們的傳產將來也是面向一些比較剛性需求的產品我們來協助它能夠移轉對他們來講其實不是太困難"},{"start":17316.118,"end":17336.679,"text":"所以經濟部來講的話經濟部在未來因為面對到這個問題所以我們一定要移轉那個市場移轉產品所以我們會讓他第一個從事既有的產品因為那個非紅供應鏈下來的ICT的產品跟下來的一個軍工產品這個市場非常的大這個是我們馬上可以catch up"},{"start":17337.403,"end":17352.67,"text":"另外一個就是對一個新的產品然後這個是我們可以主導的未來一定所有的製造業只有兩個變數第一個利用機器人替我們生產第二個利用生成式的AI來"},{"start":17355.132,"end":17371.105,"text":"訓練這個機器人幫我們做工作所以我們的國人只要會訓練這個深層式AI你有這樣的一個技能大概啊在台灣在這個智慧製造的這個領域裡面大概就是全球第一啦好部長我想這個我們"},{"start":17372.226,"end":17395.376,"text":"這個企業界除了關心這個關稅之外還有很重要的問題就是我們電力的供應穩定度尤其我們現在核三廠5月17號2號就要除役那我想不分朝野大家都很關心我們這個電力的一個調度那包含我想我們在這個多元的能源的一個發電部分包含再生能源火力發電這部分部長我們這個"},{"start":17397.655,"end":17411.67,"text":"在野黨一直攻擊這個能源的一個缺口的問題到底這個部分我們目前掌握的狀況是怎麼樣報告委員我想對這個核能這種新的科技基本上我們是不反對討論的"},{"start":17413.625,"end":17439.461,"text":"只要符合三個要件第一個安全第二個大家有共識第三個核廢料可以處理我相信新科技的這些能源我們都是在我們討論之中只要它能夠符合這個要件我想核三廠它如果再符合這個要件至於未來的發展是怎麼樣的這個交由全民共識來決定那核三廠除疫之後"},{"start":17440.061,"end":17454.501,"text":"那後續這個最終處置廠的部分我們目前有進度嗎核廢料的處理我們現在都在進行中包括因為我們現在有核一核二嘛那現在都在進行核三廠當然我們會有這些基本假設那我們希望能夠處理"},{"start":17456.22,"end":17480.146,"text":"好那我想這個也是我們恆春半島這個居民很關心的一個問題啦那後續整個河山除役之後整個在這個整個地方的環境議題上面還有這個我們所謂的一個相關的回饋機制上面我想經濟部還有台電公司應該拿出更正面的態度我想這個要後續還是本市還是會持續來追蹤啊柏林你做變動人這也要繼續來給我們努力一下啦謝謝委員鼓勵好謝謝"},{"start":17485.657,"end":17497.902,"text":"好 謝謝我們現在請徐宇珍委員做詢答徐宇珍委員 徐宇珍委員不在我們現在請蘇清泉委員做詢答蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在現在請葉元之委員做詢答麻煩請那個經濟部長郭部長"},{"start":17521.451,"end":17535.599,"text":"委員好部長好請問一下我們現在經濟部或行政院有沒有盤點出目前因為川普關稅政策導致受影響的產值全國的產值跟勞工的人數目前有盤點出這個數字出來嗎"},{"start":17537.233,"end":17553.305,"text":"報告委員我們現在因為今天12點以後才是開始適用32%的稅率那我們現在不斷的在update這些data因為這個事情其實也不是一個突發事件"},{"start":17554.306,"end":17570.787,"text":"就從去年11月我們之前在經濟委員會也都問過類似話題那時候經濟部的回應都是說都有在盤點了啦都開過座談會了啦都是說有做了很多事情那目前你掌握可能受到影響的產值跟高空我可以跟委員報告大概影響是9千億啦12萬人"},{"start":17572.108,"end":17591.038,"text":"影響九千億跟十二萬人那因為現在週五以後這個關稅就要實施了嘛那現在目前之前很多廠商說他們的貨櫃都已經在路上了啦還有一些廠商在想說那接下來是不是要繼續生產所以其實政府明確的政策對他們來說非常重要那目前"},{"start":17591.798,"end":17613.048,"text":"委員剛才在講的這個說在路上的部分其實他5月27號以前進到美國他的稅率跟過去是一樣的那因為我們現在行政院所提出來是880億的一個補助的方案那這個方案大概會持續多久那因為主要就是說我覺得很多廠商想要知道"},{"start":17614.048,"end":17630.189,"text":"想要知道說第一個他們可以得到相關的比如說補助啊或者優惠嘛那政府會利用這個期間會均跟美國談判嘛那預計來說大概期限是到什麼時候要讓廠商做一點準備啦因為像比如說我是來自於新北市我們新北市兩萬家工廠"},{"start":17630.99,"end":17650.051,"text":"大概佔了全國的五分之一啦那新北市政府他也有盤點出相關的產業出來嘛比如說在新北市金屬跟製品就佔了25%機械12%所以其實對新北市的廠商來說影響很大我覺得現在政府的政策越明確對他們來說他們的規劃"},{"start":17652.133,"end":17668.485,"text":"可以更精準就不會在這過程當中不知道怎麼辦所以部長可不可以很明確的來做一個說明謝謝委員我想我們輸出到美國的或造成影響的產業其實是只有侷限於在一些比較小的部分"},{"start":17669.426,"end":17694.301,"text":"那我們輸出美國就是一個小的部分是什麼意思?出差的比較有優勢的產品,譬如說伺服器,譬如說半導體這個是美國需要的產品,它沒有替代性的那這個部分他不擔心32%的稅對他有什麼影響怎麼會不擔心,因為他們是做有的譬如說你剛剛講的部分嘛,我的了解是有一些很多是做代工的嘛"},{"start":17695.454,"end":17713.248,"text":"那代工的話現在衍生出一個問題就是因為代工就品牌商委託他們代工嘛那32%應該是品牌商吸收還是代工廠吸收品牌商可是實際上我的了解啦很多廠商其實很擔心啦沒有那回事品牌商會壓縮代工廠的議論我們都盤點過啦盤點每一個伺服器做代工的廠商我們都一一盤點對他們來講他們當然原廠在討論啦"},{"start":17725.338,"end":17733.843,"text":"我聽到就是說有的原廠就會去跟代工廠去談嘛現在就加了32%的成本啊代工廠的利潤只有10%代工廠的利潤只有10%"},{"start":17754.797,"end":17765.348,"text":"這些廠商現在要做什麼然後政府的比如補助公開透明的步驟或期限很明確告訴大家都有我們的方法就是從這個從簡從速從寬這三個原則來給他們舒緩給他們補助"},{"start":17773.897,"end":17792.874,"text":"這是第一點第二點呢我們對這些廠商啊這個他原有的貸款我們也不會雨天收傘我們讓他延後最起碼這個六個月那我們現在推出的這些啊措施大概啊原則上是四年有效四年有效對那你那個80還81是怎麼預估出來的"},{"start":17795.057,"end":17804.055,"text":"880億是根據過去我們在第一個時間裡面所推論的可能會影響說我們現在的談判不是去談32%接受"},{"start":17805.962,"end":17825.419,"text":"是談說30%以下美國會對我們課多少實際課多少所以那個X是我們用那個X來假設說如果在那個階段我們假設我可以談到10%的話大概這個881是夠的如果高於10%那我當然就要再加碼反正你會盡量加碼到夠啦"},{"start":17834.073,"end":17853.305,"text":"對最後一個問題因為現在其實各縣市政府都有盤點出在各縣市裡面可能會影響到的中小企業而且中小企業都有一些回饋給縣市政府我不知道我們經營部有沒有去跟這些各縣市政府對接去了解一下他們的需求我們會跟各縣市的工業會市政府"},{"start":17856.047,"end":17885.359,"text":"跟縣市政府縣市政府的工業會有嗎 已經對接了嗎有對接已經對接了嗎那會召開一個比較擴大會做談會我們從過去的一直在做了所以經濟部本身有66個工業區我們都透過我們自己的這個單位跟在我們區外的單位整合來談我不是說之前啦我說因為他們這兩天也都很密集在跟中小企業在開會啦希望部長中央的角度也去了解一下各縣市政府的需求"},{"start":17885.919,"end":17889.606,"text":"我們都是中央合作啦中央與地方合作啦全力來度過這個難關好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":17892.742,"end":17919.141,"text":"好謝謝我們現在請馬文君委員做詢問馬文君委員馬文君委員不在我們現在請廖先祥委員做詢問廖先祥委員廖先祥委員不在我們現在請劉建國委員做詢問劉建國委員劉建國委員不在我們現在請何欣淳委員做詢問何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在我們現在請王玉敏委員做詢問王玉敏委員王玉敏委員不在我們現在請林德福委員做詢問林德福委員林德福委員不在"},{"start":17920.721,"end":17939.81,"text":"現在除了登記發言委員除不在場外其餘經理發言完畢委員徐欣盈陳超明所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會本日議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝"},{"start":17952.422,"end":17953.383,"text":"經濟部的經濟部的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}