{"error":false,"id":["165756"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165756,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165756","日期":"2025-11-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-35-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-24T09:56:43+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-24T10:07:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f813cb5f76f781034e7e6888efabd4340652d1d50d7223a569bc65e346f37e4c4a35e1cf326b66635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃仁","委員發言時間":"09:56:43 - 10:07:18","會議時間":"2025-11-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局、外交部報告「日本首相高市早苗『台灣有事說』及『安保三文件修正』對區域安全及台海穩定的情勢研析」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.08159375,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.14784375,"end":8.738468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.008468750000002,"end":15.184718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.31971875,"end":23.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.387218750000002,"end":15.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.200343750000002,"end":44.564093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":44.63159375,"end":49.845968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.166593750000004,"end":53.642843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.929718750000006,"end":59.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.072218750000005,"end":69.99471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.27721875,"end":71.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.39534375000001,"end":71.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.35721875,"end":74.95596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.15846875000001,"end":90.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.00409375000001,"end":91.32471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.64534375000001,"end":98.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.36159375000001,"end":102.69846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.84596875000001,"end":103.89659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.89659375000001,"end":103.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.91346875,"end":104.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.46596875,"end":107.35596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.40659375000001,"end":108.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.04346875,"end":110.56221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.15284375,"end":113.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.97096875000001,"end":114.35909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.10159375,"end":116.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.58659375,"end":122.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.03721875000001,"end":122.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.84721875000001,"end":144.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.93159375,"end":123.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.95346875,"end":170.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.09284375000001,"end":186.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.65159375000002,"end":188.69346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.11096875,"end":201.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.61159375000003,"end":202.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.80096875,"end":204.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.11284375000002,"end":206.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.91846875000002,"end":215.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.25034375,"end":221.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.90346875,"end":233.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.42909375000002,"end":235.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.36534375000002,"end":311.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.53909375,"end":313.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.11284375,"end":322.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.39909375,"end":317.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.48346875000004,"end":317.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.52909375,"end":325.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.48221875,"end":331.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.35471875,"end":363.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.39221875000004,"end":378.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.26284375,"end":384.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.98346875000004,"end":398.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.57221875000005,"end":398.43284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.75346875,"end":429.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.58846875,"end":430.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.09034375000005,"end":435.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":435.82784375000006,"end":453.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.22159375,"end":483.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.25534375,"end":454.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.41534375000003,"end":486.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.35159375,"end":494.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.68784375,"end":495.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.44721875000005,"end":563.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.58846875,"end":566.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.0984687499999,"end":581.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":582.15096875,"end":583.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.2097187500001,"end":589.8628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":590.0990937500001,"end":591.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.21284375,"end":592.9340937500001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支持日本你認為日本議論怎麼看待這個事件你怎麼樣的一個看待"},{"start":73.612,"end":89.339,"text":"我看到的是日本語論對於高市的說法的支持度是增加的我講日本的語論我看到的數字是已經增加到80%以上具體回答說日本國民的反應"},{"start":91.753,"end":113.05,"text":"那你覺得賴總統吃日本的水產他這個態度是表達支持日本那你的看法呢中華民國台灣的國家利益有很重要一點是台海地區的和平穩定安全"},{"start":115.134,"end":144.643,"text":"中華民國台灣的一個很重要的國家利益其實這不是現在才開始我相信是從你針對回答我的問題對那我現在就是要回答委員的問題就是說跟日本保持友好這是我們1949年來一直就是這樣歷任總統我們跟日本都是是要維持友好的國家利益所以就像任何動作來維持跟日本的那個友好關係我想這都是必要的"},{"start":145.023,"end":169.015,"text":"我想我們兩個都要面向我們跟對岸一樣的態度友好的一些態度跟日本一樣友好的態度本來就應該要有這種態度嘛那日本外省 這個外務省有沒有經由任何管道表示感謝賴總統吃日本的水產台灣媒體報導回台灣這些不管是在這個"},{"start":172.096,"end":188.589,"text":"電車 公車 在日本的電車公車包含街頭曝光經由台灣媒體報導回台灣這些照片是我國刊登的嗎還是總統府出現 以及外交部出現 有沒有"},{"start":190.869,"end":202.238,"text":"再跟委員報告一次就是說外務省是否有表達我想這一點我並不清楚我現在就回答你了這個感覺上"},{"start":205.165,"end":221.494,"text":"好像出口變內銷的一個廣告那日本並沒有那麼熱烈啊是國內大內宣嘛大內宣總統吃日本水產的這樣的一個廣告嘛"},{"start":222.134,"end":234.787,"text":"所以我們講一個日本包含輿論媒體和政府對依賴總統是日本的水產的這件事情的反應也沒有那麼強烈嘛所以在有支持的聲音"},{"start":236.468,"end":260.814,"text":"主要還是中立表述其外交向生顯然賴政府這種這波操作在台灣內部的這個宣導效果比在日本更大那另外就是本席從賴總統的表演和政府的反應看來我們似乎很高興日本將台灣納入他的集體自衛權的範圍那自衛權包含個別和集體"},{"start":265.896,"end":266.68,"text":"雖然在聯合國憲章"},{"start":268.925,"end":295.67,"text":"第51條附議所有國家自然權利但是大多數國家行使集體自衛權還是要透過軍事同盟條約來確立義務關係行使條件和範圍請問一下次長既然高市首相表達台灣就是日本集體自衛權的行使範圍"},{"start":296.75,"end":310.922,"text":"那我國政府也樂見於此那外交部是否有意藉此機會向日本尋求軍事同盟簽訂同盟條約那駐日單位有沒有這個運作"},{"start":312.603,"end":328.861,"text":"你回答報告員 降低衝突仍然是最重要的最近有一位中國記者在聯合國詢問了聯合國發言人Stefan他的一個回應其實他只要重提2758號重提那樣的意見"},{"start":329.562,"end":353.176,"text":"他聯合國的回答也是說降低衝突是聯合國最重要的一個目的所以我想我們跟不管跟日本跟歐洲其實我這次去歐洲大家的反應就是要降低衝突所以剛才委員特別提到吃日本料理那我們台灣人百分之百喜歡吃日本料理既然日本沒有反應那我們就把它視為正常其實我們不必誇張"},{"start":354.025,"end":376.346,"text":"那目前台灣並沒有尋求跟日本簽訂正式的軍事同盟這樣的一個做法因為簽訂這樣的並不會有幫忙你們既然都熱見移植對高市這個首相的這樣的一個態勢跟態度我們是不是剛好藉此機會來尋求這個所謂的軍事同盟啊"},{"start":377.227,"end":384.258,"text":"或是簽訂同盟條約啊是不是那對於我們台灣國土多一份保障嘛"},{"start":385.437,"end":400.326,"text":"報告委員 我剛才其實有回答過尋求簽訂正式軍事同盟並不一定是保障安全最好的方法烏克蘭就是最好的例子它有四國 目前世界上最強大的四國美國 俄國既然我們都已經表達友好關係我想我們藉此機會跟日本來談這一些軍事同盟條約或是這些盟友條約嘛所以進一步對我們台海 台灣的保障嘛"},{"start":414.534,"end":435.139,"text":"所以這個就是你要回答就是對於國內既然我們樂見於此那是不是我們就可以藉此機會來尋求這樣的一個同盟條約嘛這是我的本席的建議好不好謝謝委員我們可以做這樣的那更進一步齁集體自衛權是涉及到是國家"},{"start":436.299,"end":452.218,"text":"但是日本首相在法理上是不承認我國的國家地位那外交部是否屆時機會在日本的法理上承認中華民國的國家地位有在進行這樣的一個想法嗎"},{"start":454.524,"end":468.037,"text":"報告委員長期而言尋求中華民國正常的國家地位廣泛為世界各國承認這絕對是外交部非常高的目標那以現在中國習近平主政下的中國我們現在反而是尋求中華民國的穩定安全和平民意位得以捍衛這是最重要的一個事情"},{"start":479.048,"end":506.061,"text":"當然很多目標是必須要時間的所以長期而言甚至中長期而言尋求我們的國家中華民國正常的國家地位被世界全面承認這絕對是我們全力以赴一定遵照委員的指示去做因為你們執政太久了但是進度如何我們大家國內都看得到所以你們要檢討跟努力另外就是以我們縱觀來看"},{"start":507.662,"end":529.803,"text":"我們以地緣政治和歷史的角度你認為中國大陸政府對於日本高市首相關於台灣有事構成日本存亡危機事態的說法反應是否過於激烈因為本席問題特別提到地緣政治和歷史角度主要是因為"},{"start":530.664,"end":557.878,"text":"整件事情之所以欣然踏脖那重點其實不是日本支持台灣而是高市首相的言論等同以直接表明日本將不受日本和平憲法的約束而是日本作為二戰的發起國及戰敗國這番言論牽動到這整個東南亞和平格局的改變"},{"start":558.718,"end":581.104,"text":"所以這個就是我們今天討論的重點我們以地緣政治和歷史的角度日本應該要有所言論上要有所保守不要刺激到兩岸之間跟我們台灣的台海的緊張的關係次長你回答這個問題董事長"},{"start":584.318,"end":597.103,"text":"我作為中華民國的外交部次長 我不宜去評論日本首相的一個言論只要沒有傷害到中華民國的外交關係"},{"start":598.703,"end":614.909,"text":"那我這次去再強調一遍就是說我這次去都是所謂的理念相應國家都是支持自由民主的那基本上我在歐洲得到的反應確實中國的反應過於激烈中國在於日本所說的所以你現在已經"},{"start":615.749,"end":634.709,"text":"承認日本的言論 高市的言論過於激烈嘛這是一個重點嘛我國內知道這樣的一個言論這樣的一個言論對我們國內的台海或是國內的情勢絕對不利的 好 以上好 謝謝市長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}