{"error":false,"id":["165763"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165763,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165763","日期":"2025-11-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-15-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-24T09:47:13+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-24T09:57:14+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f813cb5f76f78103f1c1cc5d0fdaab9c46adc14d631adda669bc65e346f37e4cc6a74b42f456a0955ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"09:47:13 - 09:57:14","會議時間":"2025-11-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、國防部部長就「普發新版臺灣全民安全指引如何提升全民安全意識之政策效益評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請行政院主計總處派員列席備詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.27534375,"end":14.222843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.509718750000001,"end":15.184718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.977843750000002,"end":21.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.06971875,"end":26.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.96346875,"end":40.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.17221875,"end":44.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.96909375,"end":46.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.673468750000005,"end":51.212843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.26346875,"end":54.351593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.39784375,"end":56.477843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.11409375,"end":62.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.67096875,"end":63.05909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.03784375000001,"end":68.00346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.32409375,"end":72.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.47534375000001,"end":80.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.14909375,"end":81.70596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.90846875000001,"end":89.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.55284375000001,"end":91.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.72971875,"end":113.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.29159375,"end":125.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.62909375000001,"end":115.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.03659375000001,"end":126.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.44159375000001,"end":148.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.85596875000002,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":149.08784375000002,"end":159.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.74534375000002,"end":154.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.82034375,"end":166.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.31284375,"end":167.32971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.32971875,"end":170.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.34659375,"end":168.17346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.42659375000002,"end":170.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.48534375,"end":176.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.50221875,"end":170.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.75534375,"end":170.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.67034375,"end":176.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.54346875000002,"end":180.77909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.98159375,"end":182.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.02346875,"end":188.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.06471875000003,"end":192.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.57471875000002,"end":194.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.31284375,"end":195.96659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.33784375000002,"end":202.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.88159375,"end":206.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.33659375000002,"end":204.80909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.00284375,"end":209.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.62284375000002,"end":208.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.21346875,"end":222.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.04784375000003,"end":216.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.42659375000002,"end":255.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.83346875,"end":238.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.51846875,"end":255.82221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.44659375000003,"end":258.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.48846875000004,"end":263.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.20909375,"end":291.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.97159375,"end":273.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.27471875000003,"end":276.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.43909375000004,"end":278.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.68159375,"end":293.95971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.31409375000004,"end":295.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.13659375000003,"end":298.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.80284375,"end":299.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.81534375,"end":311.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.23971875,"end":314.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.46284375000005,"end":314.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.74971875,"end":318.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.03596875,"end":320.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.02721875000003,"end":323.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.46159375,"end":323.65971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.65971875,"end":324.21659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.91284375000004,"end":328.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.00909375000003,"end":331.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.89471875000004,"end":338.98221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.18471875,"end":347.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.53784375000004,"end":349.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":350.40659375,"end":352.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.24159375000005,"end":360.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.59909375,"end":364.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.66596875000005,"end":371.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.85471875,"end":373.30596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.64346875,"end":375.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.34784375000004,"end":377.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.08159375,"end":381.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.11471875,"end":390.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.58596875,"end":394.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.72034375000004,"end":396.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.30221875,"end":401.85846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.17909375000005,"end":402.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":402.75284375,"end":407.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.05159375000005,"end":410.32971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.48159375,"end":413.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.07596875,"end":419.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.04971875,"end":432.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.94221875000005,"end":440.92409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.36284375,"end":445.88534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.08784375000005,"end":449.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.31096875000003,"end":451.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":451.40346875,"end":457.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.74846875000003,"end":472.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.39596875,"end":476.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.62721875000005,"end":487.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.61721875,"end":492.35909375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.61221875,"end":499.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.24409375000005,"end":516.6084687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.81096875,"end":552.5690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.67034375,"end":556.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.61096875,"end":559.5890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.74971875,"end":558.3234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.11659375,"end":564.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.9934687500001,"end":570.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.06409375,"end":584.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.4965937500001,"end":589.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.50846875,"end":596.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":596.81534375,"end":600.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.96721875,"end":597.5915937500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.703,"end":13.633,"text":"部長 接下來我想小局書會即將取代農民曆 成為全台灣家戶必須收藏的書籍"},{"start":14.628,"end":37.541,"text":"那我們今天安排這個專題報告最主要是因為最近普發這個全民國防手冊造成了不少的爭議包括第二倍金然後以及印上賴金澤總統的簽名還有普發工作造成很多基層的人員疲於奔命最重要的是說很多人都質疑說這本手冊在緊急狀況的時候它是否真的有它的實用性因此特別我們請國防部專報告還有備詢"},{"start":39.262,"end":56.291,"text":"希望你們也能夠將今天各位的意見呢能夠持續的來去做檢討跟精進以及後續的這相關政策也避免最重要是避免造成我們基層人員的困擾跟這個負擔那我想好那接下來我想要請劉思芳劉部長好謝謝韋陽謝謝董事長"},{"start":64.059,"end":90.744,"text":"部長首先要肯定內政部那在本席積極的協調下我們內政部行政院跟內政部我們同意把台東縣現有兩塊兩米比土地還給我們天后宮落實還地於民也守護了在地重要的信仰這個傳承這點我想要給我們內政部來感謝不過最近我們針對賴清德總統他公布的這個工地放領的這個政策本席有幾點想要跟你進一步來討論我想先請教部長"},{"start":91.764,"end":113.105,"text":"不然你還可以記錄我們今年六月份今年六月份本市在內政委員會就有跟部長來爭取說內政部應該以以南大南澳台州的土地公立放領為例持續推動全國的公立放領以我們台東縣特別是要以台東地區來優先來實施盡速跟我們地方來做研議推動我們公立放領的政策不然你還會記錄嗎"},{"start":114.786,"end":121.348,"text":"報告委員我有跟你答應過但是現在我跟委員講一下說我們現在進度是超前第一個就是宜蘭的大南澳台地本來叫市辦然後市辦的時候就是以台東縣這邊為主後來我們跟財政部一起清查過後跟獲得行政院的同意我們現在就是所有的這些部分只要清查出來"},{"start":139.232,"end":165.429,"text":"他具有這個我們規定上面所說的要65年以前然後有連續耕作那我們就按照原來的部分就全部要處理所以跟委員報告超前我們現在內政部已經成立這個審議委員會那今天我們就會發函請包括台東縣在內的縣政府要成立工作小組因為我記得當時是跟部長要求說一個月內要趕快回覆然後部長說"},{"start":167.37,"end":169.752,"text":"因為是財政部他在清查的時候因為台東縣最多啦所以我都不敢答應奇怪是內政部忘記跟我們立法院來報告為什麼我們還沒有收到消息的時候"},{"start":183.301,"end":208.166,"text":"總統就先公布了沒有沒有我們擔心的是這樣部長擔心的是第一個當然如果不管今天是怎樣這個政策如果重要的話當時部長都說要嚴厲的話那我們在不知情的情況下總統就公布我們擔心的是會不會這樣急救章的推出真的影響到其他農民的權利沒有我想委員你上次這個事情不能清拆委員你上次一定有聽我講過我們現在最大的重點在清查清查是最困難的OK"},{"start":209.306,"end":221.053,"text":"然後清查你要決定他是國有平地耕地還是國有山坡地耕地然後是不是符合國土保育原則那我也跟委員報告從17年前到現在有很多法律已經在修正譬如說有這個這個原住民的這個這個進法補償或者其他"},{"start":226.216,"end":255.536,"text":"這些可能要排除或者你要排除漁權要排除這個台大實驗林等等這些那都必須要跨部會協商那因為如果跨部會協商的話一定要到行政院以上的這些政務委員來做協調所以那時候並不是說沒有照這個進度而是我們超過這個進度在處理那所以呢這個總統在上個禮拜週末的時候他公布的時候是公布這個政策那政策公布之後我們內政部的地政單位可以處理的都已經先處理了"},{"start":258.538,"end":285.459,"text":"那不過部長就剛剛你提到說總統公佈的條件我們就來討論條件的部分他依據我們總統的提出的這個工地放檸條件第一個就是必須在1976年1976年就是9月25年進檢跟政府就訂定契約到現在這第一個嘛對不對第一個就是你要符合有國有耕地放檸實施辦法還有國有邊際養殖用地放檸實施辦法"},{"start":285.919,"end":313.557,"text":"就是這兩個條件 符合這兩個條件這個對很多農民聽起來說聽起來比較簡單 其實說起來比較簡單 聽起來比較複雜為什麼會這樣講部長你也知道台東縣的土地是複雜我們台東縣是山多 平原少然後公有地占了87%然後又涉及到的是財政部 國防部 農業部還有中央主管機關跟國營事業土地複雜的最多比其他縣市更高"},{"start":314.858,"end":338.658,"text":"因此台東縣 其實在本期上週回去台東的時候 很多農民都很擔心說我覺得反正現在的經濟空間在那裡吃不下不會啦 委員我幫你報告一下有什麼我會先告訴你 有什麼有三個問題 我們現在發現三個問題第一個就是說 以現在我們工地放領的這個是縣 國有的平地耕作跟養殖戶第一個 我們的三多平 平地這個部分就是一個限制"},{"start":339.338,"end":362.43,"text":"很多人 他可能耕作多人 他是在山區他是山丘地 山坡地 耕作地他第一個就被排除在外了嘛 這第一個問題嘛第二個 很多農民要擔心的是說工地放棄林子 縣什麼 自耕農有的農民 他做幾十年了 他耕不到他早期的主業早就找不到了然後第二個就是年紀大 他沒辦法再耕作然後所以他的土地 繼承權過戶給他的兒女的時候"},{"start":365.184,"end":392.023,"text":"他兒子死了可能他沒農報啊所以他沒辦法認定是根農嘛所以這個可能照他幾十年的等待就是一場空那第三個會擔心的是什麼台東很多農民早期是像退府會台塘甚至是台營土地租用啦租用這些土地這些人也都不符合恐怕都不符合在這一次工地放領的對象裡面所以我們根據你們內政部提供的這些簡報資料台東工地放領的面積達到了608公頃"},{"start":394.825,"end":413.51,"text":"全國最多我們隔壁的屏東縣比賽將近多了兩倍將近是大概兩倍但是台東縣符合這樣條件的人數只有752人這個人數大概是屏東縣的一半面積是台屏東縣的兩倍人口數是屏東的一半"},{"start":414.19,"end":440.062,"text":"那加上現在政策相對是模糊我們台東縣的境內的狀況又很特殊因此台東很多農民擔心說最後成功能夠申請到放寧的人他可能比你們預估的人數還要少所以我們想在這裡讓我們中央這個不要玩文字遊戲因為他們等了一輩子等了那麼久他們期待著這些事情不要好不容易有了希望結果到後來"},{"start":442.904,"end":465.119,"text":"所以本期今天會提出一個臨時提案也要求我們內政部在一個月以內邀集相關的部會還有我們地方政府來擬去這個工地放寧的清澈並針對我們台東縣的特殊狀況來做研議就像我們提到那個地形的關係然後還有就是從寬從速的推動我們工地放寧的政策讓這項德政能夠真的落實到民眾的"},{"start":465.759,"end":465.859,"text":"我會回應"},{"start":479.659,"end":504.219,"text":"那報告委員第一個我們根據現有的行政命令來處理所以並沒有所說的有模糊的空間第二個呢我剛講過有新的法令譬如說你牽涉到國土保安還有牽涉到信賴保護原則的部分狀況之下我們的所有原則都非常清楚三個原則兩個辦法然後你剛所提到台東跟屏東那是因為屏東的土地的比數"},{"start":504.739,"end":512.005,"text":"是台東的兩倍不是面積多寡 你又寡很多人然後再來有關於它是自耕農的這個只要有延續是跟財政部的國有財產署有訂約那我們會來請國有財產署來從寬認定因為我們內政部所處理是土地的清查那清查出來以後它這個清查土地的所有者有沒有跟國有財產署繼續去簽約"},{"start":529.801,"end":546.639,"text":"那就是由這個國有財產署來認定所以我剛剛才說我們今天會請縣市地方政府趕快成立工作小組因為國有財產署他手上就是所有的清單名冊都有但是他在對證譬如說有的人可能已經往生但是他是不是繼續跟國產署有訂定契約那應該就是沒有太大的問題但是這個是財政部認定"},{"start":552.665,"end":558.567,"text":"我都聽到委員的建議在處理啊 你在抄錢啊所以是不是跟我們上禮拜聽到的 其實不太簡單嘛 對不對不是不是 沒有沒有沒有第一個 站在我們的跟那個財政部一起來協辦的立場上面第一個 法律沒有改變第二個 信賴保護原則沒有改變第三個 國土保育是新增加的如果你那個地方是有堰塞湖的危險或那個地方有土石流 你現在放你出去"},{"start":581.576,"end":585.937,"text":"是害了他們所以這個部分要排除我們是臨時提案是委員的權益但是那個財政部的部分我們尊重財政部他們的處理的規範好不好好 謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}