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PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO"},{"start":1777.814,"end":1801.252,"text":"報告委員會我們現在請主任秘書報告出席委員的人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數本席正式宣布開會拜託現場的媒體帥哥美女們是不是你們讓我們開會不要妨礙官員就不要在官員附近的位置"},{"start":1803.8,"end":1831.105,"text":"也請我們的議事人員來幫忙一下現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上一次的會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第三會期財政委員會第六次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年三月三十一日星期一九十至十二十二分地點全球九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福委員等十四人列席委員張其凱委員等八人列席官員今晚會主委彭金榮"},{"start":1832.245,"end":1854.159,"text":"財政部政次 阮清華 中央銀行副總裁朱美麗 國發會 法務部等單位代表即各所屬 相關人員 主席 賴召集委員 會員報告四項預薪族商事會議事錄決定 議事錄確定二 邀請今晚惠朋族務委 金融財政部 中央銀行 國發會及法務部就如何促進台灣金融市場規模發展之執行政策包括國際金融業務OPU"},{"start":1855.58,"end":1882.696,"text":"保險業務OIU 國際證券業務OSU進行專題報告密碑質詢經濟管會主委彭金文報告後藉由委員林德富等14人提出質詢經濟金管會彭主委財政部阮政事國發會金發處邱處長央行朱副總裁法務部曾教授等單位代表及相關人員以答覆決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢集會及答覆或請補充資訊請相關單位一週內以書面答覆委員另要求"},{"start":1883.616,"end":1887.219,"text":"好 報告委員會請問對於上一次的會議紀錄有異議沒有 我們就要確定那麼請議事委員宣讀今日的議程"},{"start":1905.558,"end":1927.524,"text":"報告事項二 邀請中央銀行總裁楊金龍金管會主委彭金龍行政院主席總處陳主席長淑芝財政部莊部長翠雲經濟部郭部長智輝農業部陳部長俊記就川普對等關稅政策實施對我國股會市經濟成長物價房市等向所造成之衝擊與因應措施進行專題報告並被質詢討論事項一審查納稅者權利保護法"},{"start":1932.365,"end":1958.192,"text":"4案1委員賴世保等22人擬拒納稅者權利保護法部分條文修正草案案2委員羅廷偉等18人擬拒納稅者權利保護法第4條條文修正草案案3委員林思明等20人擬拒納稅者權利保護法第7條及第21條條文修正草案案4委員林思明等18人擬拒納稅者權利保護法第21條條文修正草案案2審查加值型及非加值型業稅法8案"},{"start":1960.714,"end":1989.568,"text":"一委員鍾嘉斌等十八人委員鍾嘉斌等二十三人委員郭國文等十七人分別擬具加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案案等三案二委員陳超平等十八人委員邱志偉等十六人分別擬具加值型及非加值型營業稅法第八條條文修正草案案等二案三委員賴世保等二十五人委員寬恒等十六人分別擬具加值型及非加值型營業稅法第十三條條文修正草案案等二案"},{"start":1990.288,"end":1997.125,"text":"次委員賴世保等22人擬拒加值型及非加值型營業稅法第58條條文修正草案宣讀完畢"},{"start":2000.992,"end":2017.185,"text":"我們今天原來上禮拜排並沒有專門報告因為這個禮拜一突然川普宣布給台灣加32%的關稅所以我們排到今天做一個各部會的因應報告"},{"start":2021.721,"end":2032.95,"text":"好我們現在這個雖然第一個是專案報告但是我們主要還是原來是審查相關的法案現在就請提案委員說明每一位提案因為提案比較多每一位委員提案一案兩分鐘一案兩分鐘好我們請這個內事保委員先做提案說明"},{"start":2055.073,"end":2073.796,"text":"主席各位先進我的提案現在提三個第一個就是我們這些年來我們每一年幾乎都超增了營業稅非常多但是對於統一發票對於統一發票我們只有說"},{"start":2076.807,"end":2097.381,"text":"這個按照中央政府總預算有全面的營業稅收入總額編3%但是得他還可以不編所以變成是他現在只有編預算的超徵的比如說去年這個超徵了5000多億那裡面呢這5000多億就沒有了"},{"start":2098.101,"end":2124.958,"text":"就沒有了這個3%的統一高票的中獎的機會我這樣算起來106年來以來我們讓老百姓少掉上億次的啦最少1億次的這樣子中獎機會啦所以我把它補起來把因改 把得改成因就這個案子就是這麼簡單第一個案子第二個案子有關於小規模的營業人那麼已經"},{"start":2126.419,"end":2146.804,"text":"75年來到現在114年快40年了我們都沒有調整所以把20萬調整為30萬這是第二個案子我的第三個案子呢是有關於這個納稅者權利保護法的修法我們希望能夠第一個辦公聽會"},{"start":2147.924,"end":2165.578,"text":"第二個外部的專家應該最少二分之一這是兩大的重點我想我三個案子就這樣跟各位做簡單的說明請各位能夠支持 謝謝謝謝賴委員所以我們請林志明委員做提案說明好 謝謝主席"},{"start":2177.403,"end":2198.599,"text":"各位委員 各位先進 大家好我想我針對納稅者權利保護法第21條條文的修正做以下的提案說明監察院在111年裁調之第13號已指出打贏稅法官司的當事人反應法令規定而陷入無限輪迴的司法救濟的困境並侵害賦稅人權"},{"start":2200.64,"end":2224.169,"text":"卻稅捐基增法第21條關於核課期間的規定議裁非故意逃漏稅捐者之核課時間為5年故意者為7年的規定然現行納稅者權利保護法之規定卻未逾15年未能確定其因納稅而者方可不得再行核課因而造成我們民眾萬年稅單的困擾"},{"start":2227.105,"end":2254.291,"text":"此外許多學者專家也都提出相同的意見更何況我們在行政程序法第131條的規定公法請求權時效也不過5年刑事妥數審判法也規定8年內要完成訴訟本法所定的15年不只破壞稅監激增法及行政程序法的原有法律體系以及對人民的時效利益保護嚴重的利益失衡"},{"start":2255.651,"end":2273.857,"text":"納保法是用來保護我們的納稅義務人但是現在卻是在法院撤銷處分後還要再花至少15年的時間等國稅局隨時去查我想因為法院只是撤銷復查的決定以及訴願的決定而非課稅處分"},{"start":2275.237,"end":2302.816,"text":"所以當稅監計政處只要重新做成複查的決定當事人可能又要進行重新的司法救濟沒完沒了所以即使打贏稅法官司還是會輪回萬年稅單的一個困境稅監訴訟我認為應仿效刑事妥數審判法才是納保法的立法目的與精神所以我將現行的條文規定自法院做成撤銷或變更裁判"},{"start":2303.496,"end":2318.806,"text":"之日起逾十五年未能確定其因納稅額者修改為自法院作成撤銷或變更裁判之日起逾七年未能確定其因納稅額者這樣的一個文字修訂敬請各位委員支持好 謝謝"},{"start":2325.95,"end":2350.539,"text":"我們下一位請莊嘉斌委員 莊嘉斌委員 莊嘉斌委員不在郭國榮委員 郭國榮委員 郭國榮委員不在顏寬恆委員 顏康文委員 顏康文委員不在羅廷文委員 羅廷文委員 羅廷文不在陳昭明委員 陳昭明委員 陳昭明委員不在邱志偉 邱志偉 邱志偉委員不在我們現在請莊部長進行這個"},{"start":2355.281,"end":2381.886,"text":"這個回應 這個委員的提案內容不過在回應之前啦我們按慣例 剛才漏了一顆洞 主委抱歉那麼介紹一下在場的立委林保福委員林思敏委員吳秉瑞委員陳育臻委員我們各單位 今天各單位來的比較多啦我們只介紹所長喔莊議員的楊金榮總裁"},{"start":2385.7,"end":2413.004,"text":"金管委的彭金榮這個主委以及主計總書的陳主計長財政部的莊部長經濟部的何正次農業部的杜長次以及司法院行政訴訟及懲戒廳的陳法官"},{"start":2415.863,"end":2419.924,"text":"謝謝主席那麼我就直接進入提案說明今天我們的這個營業稅當中針對所謂的加值型營業稅過去我們將它的設定標準小規模營業人免開統一發票是20萬元月營業額"},{"start":2445.353,"end":2472.339,"text":"事實上這個37年的標準一直沒有更改那造成的結果就實際上整個人事房租成本都提高的情況之下現在要找到月營業額不到20萬還能夠生存的小店家事實上已經不存在了但是我們要了解當時為什麼給這些未達20萬月營業額免開統一發售的小店家這樣的一個查訂科徵的一個寬免事實上就是為了稅務的減變"},{"start":2474.019,"end":2487.098,"text":"但是實務上現在由於科技的進步這些營業人應該逐步的引導他使用包括行動支付等這些電子憑證的方式來以便他能夠未來"},{"start":2488.221,"end":2510.438,"text":"納入到開立統一發票當中的憑證所以呢我們覺得在五十萬的這個門檻上請行政機關不要再去主張我們會有多少的稅損跟多少營業人會變成免開統一發票事實上目前全台灣將近六十萬的營業人有營登的其實呢絕大部分的小規模營業人"},{"start":2511.198,"end":2515.483,"text":"已經超過大概是超過30萬人佔比是到達6成以上但是這些小規模營業人他的稅負貢獻在我們多達將近6000億的營業稅當中他只不過佔了30億30億"},{"start":2527.659,"end":2546.713,"text":"百分之零點五所以過去這些將近三十萬的小規模營業人民該統一發票的他們的稅務貢獻就是三十億如果我們把合理的調高到五十萬的月營業額給予這些在我們的基本生存線上這辛苦掙扎的小店家給予他們"},{"start":2548.774,"end":2564.884,"text":"5%以下一%或零的納稅額對國家的稅存有限但是對我們整個有辦法訂定輔導措施協助他們往未來50萬以上的營業賣進使用統一發票我們要設定一個優惠的"},{"start":2566.545,"end":2589.904,"text":"激勵機制如果我們今天不調整這個20萬到50萬的基準線我們永遠停留在過去落伍的查定課程也沒辦法鼓勵小規模營業人往他實際上的營業規模往正規的規模去發展所以在這裡我們提案的內容就是要求把過去的20萬的小規模營業人的認定標準提高到50萬以上"},{"start":2591.105,"end":2604.753,"text":"好 謝謝鄭建平委員的一個提案報告我們先就請財政部的莊部長進行這個回應委員的提案內容同時進行今天的總案報告好不好 就一起那個楊洋總裁就第二位好不好"},{"start":2613.379,"end":2624.26,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家早今天貴委員會審查大院各委員所分別凝聚的納保法及營業稅法相關條文的修正草案總共有13案"},{"start":2624.761,"end":2648.846,"text":"本部僅作簡要的說明 敬請指教有關賴委員事保等22人提案增訂租稅優惠的擬定在法律送請大院審議前應舉行公聽會並提出稅事支出評估部分與現行的納保法適應細則第4條的規定相同本部敬表尊重有關增訂納入外部專業人士擔任納保官的部分"},{"start":2649.686,"end":2677.579,"text":"考量稅務的法令具有專業複雜而且由資深的稅務捐人員擔任納保官他可以提供納稅者及時必要及有效的諮詢以及協助相較外部人員擔事更能迅速解決問題還有貼近民眾的需求而且也撲授到納稅者的肯定我們建議給予維持另外增訂本部每年應該提出納保官績效報告送大院備查部分本部每年都根據了大院的附帶決議"},{"start":2678.919,"end":2696.645,"text":"提送納保業務績效及考核結果的報告送交貴委員會所以本部敬表尊重有關賴委員世保等22人提案以及林思明委員等20人提案就租稅規避案件刪除補繳稅款加計利息部分查租稅規避案件因案"},{"start":2698.367,"end":2713.008,"text":"補繳稅款一次性的加徵滯納金以及利息是以補繳稅款作為加計利息的範圍不申抵觸司法院4至第746號解釋所揭示的重複計算的這個情勢建議維持現行的規定"},{"start":2714.653,"end":2742.237,"text":"有關羅委員庭委等18人提案將維持基本生活所需費用的檢討期程由每兩年定期檢討修正為每年定期公告及檢討部分和現行納保法的施行細則第三條第三項的規定相同本部競表尊重有關林委員思明等20人提案刪除關於利息得適用提起行政救濟超過15年不得再行核課部分考量該項利息是包含所有的利息"},{"start":2743.117,"end":2767.547,"text":"刪除以后比现行的规定更不利于纳税义务人建议维持现行的规定有关领委员司名18人提案将不得再行合克期间由15年缩短为7年部分考量不得再行合克期间与税捐基增法第21条规定的合克期间两者规范目的及性质不同难以比赋原因而且恐有借新送获取不再合克利益之余"},{"start":2769.127,"end":2785.262,"text":"另外賴委員世保等22人提案徵定公務員違反納保法的規定因移送監察院彈劾或糾舉部分那麼公務員的懲戒法裡面已經有相關的規定以及處理的機制我們建議免予徵定"},{"start":2786.002,"end":2805.879,"text":"有关陈委员超明等18人提案农业会收购农林渔牧产物所制的初级加工品免征营业税的部分依照现行的相关规定已有免征营业税的规定而且以根据农业主管机关的政策目的提供适切的租税优惠我们认为不宜再以扩大"},{"start":2806.519,"end":2833.093,"text":"那邱委員志偉等16人提案實體圖書免徵營業稅的部分那麼現行相關的法例已經有提供了經認可的圖書出版品銷售的收入可以免徵營業稅的租稅優惠所以無需再在營業稅法裡面另外做規定那至於賴思寶委員25人及嚴寬和委員16人所提案的調高使用發票銷售額標準至平均每月30萬元"},{"start":2835.404,"end":2857.682,"text":"恐怕會弱化有關競銷勾擊的制度有造成營業人逃漏稅捐之餘而且會影響民眾索取統一發票對講的權益以及食品安全溯源追蹤還有物價稽查那麼並增加洗錢防治的困難另外中委員嘉賓等18人提案將小規模營業人認定標準由現行平均每個月銷售額未達20萬元提高到50萬元"},{"start":2860.084,"end":2866.989,"text":"以及平均每月銷售額達20萬元未達50萬元的小規模營業人應按稅率1%開立統一發票另外中委員嘉賓的23人又提案廢止查訂課徵制度小規模營業人於118年12月31日前適用稅率1%從119年1月1日起改按5%課徵的部分均採自動報繳營業稅並免用統一發票恐怕會難以掌握他的銷售額造成"},{"start":2889.085,"end":2904.275,"text":"稅捐逃漏情形并且会增加53万余加的查定课程营业人依从成本以及其买售以及他的买售人营业税的负担另外有关增订税及登记销售额标准的部分将会使政府无从了解"},{"start":2904.795,"end":2927.562,"text":"全國實際參與經濟活動的營業人加速地下經濟恐怕會更型惡化那麼有關賴委員世保等22人提案將本部得訂定統一發票給獎辦法修正為應訂定統一發票給獎辦法那本部已經在71年5月28號訂定了這個辦法而且從100年起都按照軍事政府的財政狀況按營業稅全國預算按數的3%編列統一發票的給獎以及推行經費"},{"start":2933.684,"end":2957.987,"text":"以足額的編列如果修正為無論政府的不管政府的財政狀況一律給予3%編列會不會恐怕會有減損政府的財政調整彈性那麼現行的給獎制度以及等等以及經費的編列可以達到防止逃漏控制稅控制稅源以及促進統一發票的推行等立法的目的那麼我們認為還沒有調整的必要性"},{"start":2958.567,"end":2981.776,"text":"那有關郭委員國文的17人以及5委員配議等18人提案的內容和本部114年1月7號報請行政院審查的營業稅法部分條文修正草案內容大致相同那麼該草案等到行政院審查通過後核轉大院審議建議屆時依行政院的版本修正以上說明敬請各位委員指教接下來"},{"start":2984.532,"end":3005.872,"text":"報告有關今天的有關川普對關稅政策的實施對我國的股匯市等項目的所造成的衝擊及因應措施的專題報告這個部分先就涉本部的業務部分做簡要說明如下首先說明的就是107年由於美中貿易戰的爆發後引發全球供應鏈的重組台商加速回台"},{"start":3006.672,"end":3019.163,"text":"擴建產能並且把高附加價值的產線移回國內生產其中包括伺服器供應鏈的廠商以及人工智慧高速運算等新興科技的興起所以107年我國對美國出口的金額是395億美元那麼到大幅上升到113年的1114億的美元6年期間擴增了719億美元那麼出鈔增加了585億"},{"start":3032.914,"end":3039.976,"text":"佔整體出口比重由110.8%提高到23.4%那麼113年台灣對美國的順差達到649億元那麼台灣出口到美國的前30大產品佔我國出口到美國總值的72%主要是以資通訊以及電子零組件的為主"},{"start":3055.38,"end":3075.288,"text":"那麼美國在今年的4月2號發布從4月5號起對全球180個國家實施對等關稅的措施以及對鋼鋁汽車以及特定的零件半導體藥品以外的所有產品除了原有的稅率以外一律加徵10%的關稅而從4月9號起針對貿易逆差較多的57個國家徵收11%到50%的"},{"start":3082.751,"end":3089.622,"text":"不等稅率的對等關稅而對我國課徵的是32%不過根據今天的媒體的訊息白宮的白宮"},{"start":3094.175,"end":3099.457,"text":"白宮的新聞秘書已經證實給予90天期間所有國家徵收10%的關稅包括加末兩國那麼他們的財政部長貝森特也補充說明汽車等產業關稅是保持25%的不變那這個部分呢應該我們是會在這"},{"start":3116.058,"end":3121.259,"text":"加徵關稅10%的範圍裡面而加徵的20%、32%的部分應該會有90天的一個緩衝期我想這個部分補充報告那麼對於我國出口供應鏈支持措施的部分美國對等關稅影響到我國的產業"},{"start":3137.023,"end":3149.369,"text":"有關供應鏈支持的措施的部分首先我就簡單的說第一個就是便捷業者出口通關作業降低行政成本也就是說對保稅區的通關全免裝箱單免裝箱單這個部分可以減少有關保稅區的業者1224家的業者減少製作裝箱單的20萬份"},{"start":3159.853,"end":3165.418,"text":"以及10萬小時作業時間降低業者的成本第二個我們海關會實施遠端集合那麼減少行政干預有助減輕業者的成本第二個我們是提供出口廠商金融的支持包含貿易融資的利息減碼"},{"start":3176.887,"end":3195.255,"text":"那麼最高可以減到500萬元或者是600萬元一個一年的利息那第二個對於輸出保費的優惠的部分呢我們也給予一折的一個優惠然後鼓勵廠商可以去擴大新的市場以及新的客戶那另外我們會提供租稅的優惠支持我國出口供應鏈的產業這包含現行的產創條例裡面的相關的一些投資底檢"},{"start":3200.237,"end":3221.824,"text":"以及目前已經送到大院審議當中的修正條文那這個部分呢如果經過大院審議通過呢可以讓我們的產創條例有關租稅抵減的一個部分可以再做擴大適用那第四個部分就提供受美國關稅衝擊的協助包含繳稅困難的協助措施也就是說受到這個關稅政策的影響而發生財務困難的話沒有辦法在一定繳納期間內一次繳清因繳稅款者可以向"},{"start":3228.746,"end":3257.695,"text":"基增機關申請延期或分期繳納稅款另外對於公股銀行協助措施那麼企業貸款如果因為這些關稅因素影響營運可以根據經濟部協助企業辦理銀行債權債務協商作業要點恰原代公股銀行申請還繳本息或展延繳款的年期那麼由各銀行依照個案來審酌處理來紓緩產業的一個資金調度及營運周轉均的一個需求另外公股銀行也有中小"},{"start":3258.215,"end":3267.954,"text":"及微型企業振興融資方案來持續推動中讓我們中小微企業能夠穩健的經營那麼第三個就是股市衝擊及因應措施"},{"start":3269.35,"end":3292.831,"text":"這個部分國安基金委員會已經在4月8號召開會議那麼全體委員會共事在4月7號由於這個股市的一個動盪不安所以這個部分已經授權由執行秘書是情況動用資金執行市場安定的任務第四個結語為了因應美國關稅政策及對台灣出口廠商的衝擊本部所提出的出口供應"},{"start":3293.431,"end":3296.336,"text":"出口供應鏈支持方案來協助產業因應降低貿易風險確保競爭的優勢以上報告 敬請委員指教 謝謝"},{"start":3313.772,"end":3333.571,"text":"主席、各位委員、各位女士、先生今天呈邀前來委員會文會報告川普對等關稅增值事實對我國股匯市經濟成長物價、房市等項所造成之衝擊與因應措施自感榮幸以下緊究本行業務相關部分提出報告敬請匯市指教"},{"start":3334.844,"end":3348.623,"text":"一川普對等關稅實施對國際經濟物價及全球股市的影響第一個對國際經濟影響貿易政策不確定性劇增全球經濟下行風險上升第二頁"},{"start":3350.927,"end":3366.181,"text":"第三頁掛斧二對全球股會市與物價值影響對等關稅政策衝擊全球股會市只要大宗商品價格下跌全球需求降溫可抑制通膨壓力請翻開第五頁"},{"start":3368.183,"end":3385.855,"text":"二川普對等關稅實施對國內經濟成長物價房市之影響告一對國內經濟成長之影響美國對等關稅政策實施後將限縮台灣出口成長動能以制約全球經濟動能進而影響台灣經濟的成長請翻開第六頁"},{"start":3392.124,"end":3411.964,"text":"阿拉伯4-4目前投資銀行預測對等關稅對本年台灣經濟成長減少0.4%到1.1%上市評估結果為初步簡略估算美國公布之對等關稅稅率遠高於預期主要國家人大與"},{"start":3412.685,"end":3437.465,"text":"美國就關稅議題協商因此對全球經貿影響可能不如預計評估的的嚴重為其衝擊效果仍具不確定性此結果僅供參考第七月對國內物價之影響美國對等關稅實施產生政府政府兩股力量互相拉扯物價阻塞對台灣通膨"},{"start":3438.766,"end":3464.923,"text":"利益影響具不確定性為政府面衝擊附體對台灣通膨影響可能有限對國內房市之影響美國對等關稅政策對國內房市雖無直接影響為可能透過對國內經濟金融情勢之衝擊而間接影響房市川普對等關稅實施對國內匯市之影響已應措施"},{"start":3470.208,"end":3494.053,"text":"本行提出了四個因應策略第十月一建立場內外監理機制第二如預市場供需失衡至新台幣匯率過度波動本行將進場調節以維持新台幣的匯率的穩定十一月被投充配的外幣流動性第四提供國內金融市場外幣資金流動性"},{"start":3497.411,"end":3515.868,"text":"12月4 本行將密切關注國內企業取得融資情形採取妥適金融穩定的措施及貨幣政策來因應13月9 未來本行將持續關注國內通膨發展情勢並密切關注美國經貿政策主要經濟體貨幣政策調整步伐"},{"start":3518.83,"end":3532.764,"text":"步調等對國內經濟金融形勢之影響適時調整貨幣政策以達成維持物價穩定與金融穩定並於上述目標範圍內協助經濟發展之法定職責以上報告敬請各位委員會議執教謝謝"},{"start":3535.077,"end":3557.217,"text":"好 非常謝謝央行總裁的精簡精彩的報告那麼報告委員會因為我們今天的議程比較多所以其他單位的報告請各位自行參閱我們就不進手中報告了等一下有問題可以搜尋他我們現在開始詢答做以下的宣告"},{"start":3558.018,"end":3575.005,"text":"每位初選委員發言8分鐘 必要的時候延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間4分鐘上午10點截止發言登記現在依照登記的順序 請登記第一位的林伯福委員資訊 請"},{"start":3589.423,"end":3599.633,"text":"謝謝主席一位各部會首長還有各位同仁我們是不是我特別來邀請這個中央銀行楊總裁"},{"start":3608.843,"end":3634.586,"text":"林委員早總裁你好我請教雖然川普昨天又宣布對於未報復美國的這些國家關稅措施暫緩90天的實施但針對川普關稅政策對我國股匯市以及經濟成長物價包括房市所造成的衝擊與因應的措施我請問總裁"},{"start":3636.247,"end":3646.455,"text":"對於川普關稅政策我國各層面帶來的衝擊你認為影響是一時的還是有可能遞延的影響"},{"start":3648.302,"end":3673.853,"text":"包委員這個就是說90天的這個觀察期這個舒緩的就是說他一開始對整個全球的影響但是這30天呢這個90天呢還必須要觀察所以就是說如果說這個這個不確定性還是依然的揮之不去還是存在他還是會存在那個莊財是那你認為這個"},{"start":3677.97,"end":3704.302,"text":"會不會有可能這個地緣的影響又或者相互間會產生一些連動的效應會不會當然啦就是說剛剛也就是說如果這個不確定性的因素沒辦法消除的時候呢那麼這個影響就會一直遞延下去那這樣的話呢就事實上對整個全聯來講的話他的金融市場的一個波動度呢還是會還是會有這樣齁總裁"},{"start":3706.483,"end":3728.533,"text":"因為本席這個憂心的是這個基於受衝擊的是全球各大經濟體所以說影響時間長效應深遠那請問你認為會不會發生全球關稅戰會不會現在看起來就是說有一些的國家要去跟他談"},{"start":3729.433,"end":3753.533,"text":"當然我在想這是我個人的看法就是說川普也知道就是說這一次的這個一開始的那個衝擊是非常大的所以應該就是說他在談判上應該會比較鬆一點但是至於對於那些就是說要跟他硬碰硬的這個還是會造成整個全球的一個經貿的影響"},{"start":3755.314,"end":3781.899,"text":"而且是對岸中國你看他中國也是很硬喔是喔是喔是喔他不但這個不跟他談甚至於還也給美國加很大很大的關稅那因為以目前我們整個政府的因應措施九大面向二十項的措施總經費八百八十億的協助方案你認為是不是足以來應付川普關稅政策帶給台灣的衝擊"},{"start":3785.1,"end":3792.264,"text":"這個是我個人的看法啦我不能代表行政院來回答這個問題當然880億是現在的一個評估那現在就是說要一段期間之後還要再評估他這個880億是不是足夠"},{"start":3806.173,"end":3831.266,"text":"如果說他的一個影響是很大他的衝擊是很大的話那恐怕這個金額還是要加大因為以你中央銀行專業的立場應該你是可以就是比較深入啦謝謝你鼓勵川普暫緩90天的實施新關稅你認為政府因應措施是不是也會有一些遞言的實施遞言效果的實施"},{"start":3834.268,"end":3857.675,"text":"應該 我想呢 也應該要就未雨綢繆那所以就是說 雖然這三個月的時間可以再有一個密切的一個觀察不過呢 我總覺得提早準備是更好對啊 你要做充分的準備啊請問總裁 這次國安基金的進場你認為護盤基金需要多少嗎"},{"start":3859.675,"end":3864.137,"text":"因為以前富盤基金說5000億不過市場有一些建議希望5000億能夠擴大不過如果說我們來看待我們的股市它的市值確實"},{"start":3879.443,"end":3891.418,"text":"它是增加了將近是增加是很多的那你等於是購水休息嘛那這個可以評估這個可以考慮不過這個是國安基金它本身要那你認為護盤的時間會不會比以前更久"},{"start":3892.869,"end":3916.921,"text":"這個我沒辦法來預測這個我沒辦法預測總裁因為川普關稅政策的效應你認為會不會讓我們整個台灣股市提前走入熊市會不會現在目前還是那個uncertainty就是他的不確定性真的還是非常的高所以我們現在如果說要做一個很"},{"start":3918.082,"end":3936.563,"text":"很直接的就是說下一個判斷說實在是言之過早那個總裁因為這種面對關稅政策的股市反應到底是這個人造熊市的短期現象還是會加速來催化"},{"start":3937.364,"end":3957.843,"text":"整個台股啊走入空頭市場的前奏曲一鳴看所以還是在強調的就是說這個不確定性不確定性還是在強調這個不確定性如果說這個不確定性可以把它排除掉的時候呢我覺得啊應該股市它還是會回歸到它的基本面總裁"},{"start":3959.161,"end":3986.374,"text":"你曾說你對從對等關稅的角度來看台灣應該不在其中就算台灣對美順差大也因台美是互補的關係所以這個不是不公平這個貿易那我請問總裁是所以你對台美貿易的互補關係的看法對照美國對台灣科"},{"start":3988.995,"end":4012.62,"text":"32%的關稅的決定 請問到底是我們誤解台美關係還是美國根本就是吃定了我們你認為呢 吃定了台灣我認為他也不是單獨就台灣來 就是說吃定我們台灣只是說他的一個公式呢 他的不合理性是適用所有的國家"},{"start":4013.84,"end":4026.283,"text":"適用所有的國家所以我們也不能說他單獨對我們因為他的這個公式是太過粗劣了太過粗劣不是粗劣 粗暴對 應該是說粗暴太過粗暴了所以也不是說他只是針對台灣來那主要的就是說因為台灣對他的貿易順差是大了但是他都沒有考慮到台灣的這個對他的順差事實上是他需要我們的產品"},{"start":4043.067,"end":4046.871,"text":"我們什麼都給人家的啊我們產品對它的生產力是有貢獻的也就是說我們台灣對它的一個共識是蠻大的我們產品對經濟的生產力是很有貢獻的現在最嚴重就是我們沒有籌碼跟人家談"},{"start":4060.752,"end":4080.715,"text":"你認不認同因為你的戲隊我們台積電已經說要去那裡設廠那些衛星工廠也跟著都去甚至於啊他把其他的一些有關IC的產業全部都要過去你說未來我們是剩什麼對不對總裁針對川普的"},{"start":4082.056,"end":4103.302,"text":"關稅政策請問總裁你認為川普真的是以對等關稅來作為出發點的決定如果是以賴總統回應川普不採取關稅報復從零關稅談起的立場台美之間能夠站在實質公平的立足點來談判協商嗎你認為呢"},{"start":4104.782,"end":4127.81,"text":"我想這個是雙方啦雙方當然就是說要對等的話呢就必須要去好好的談那當然要去好好的談那這個呢彼此會互相更了解所以你看我想應該就是說各個國家去跟他談的話應該會有效果這是我個人的猜測但願如此啦總裁如果川普"},{"start":4129.03,"end":4148.998,"text":"關稅政策是手段公平貿易是政策合法性的包裝最終目的是在其他方面請問你認為台灣要怎麼去面對這種不確定性的政策呢所以唯一的途徑還是就是說去跟他好好的談"},{"start":4150.534,"end":4168.391,"text":"這是唯一的途徑總裁本席任何大多數人都不樂見好不容易慢慢互輸的疫後經濟又轉壞但是川普政策的不確定性的負面影響恐怕比較大"},{"start":4169.372,"end":4187.522,"text":"那最近啦 台經院也公布二月景氣動向調查後張建義院長表示以對等關稅或是貿易量貿易順差來看台灣可能是汽車啦 農業產品影響較大那總裁 如果農產品關稅影響大請問你認為會不會對國內進出口農產品的價格產生這個聯乙的效應"},{"start":4199.369,"end":4216.866,"text":"我想如果說是農業產品的話可能是會啦但是就是說這個也就是說如果說對這些的產業有發生比較大的損失的時候我覺得政府也可以考量到要做某些的一個補償"},{"start":4217.867,"end":4239.566,"text":"那如果會的話你認為今年的CPI還有CCPI是不是會出現上修的空間會不會到目前為止我們還是認為我們的物價還是會穩定的會穩定總裁根據美國財經媒體彭博模型的推估一旦對台灣課徵32%的關稅台灣對美出口將減少"},{"start":4245.19,"end":4265.578,"text":"約63%大約會讓GDP縮減3.8%那我請問總裁你認為彭博模型是高估還是低估整個關稅對台灣GDP萎縮的影響我想彭博的這個我總覺得是他可能是用很"},{"start":4266.218,"end":4279.789,"text":"很悲觀的一個情境用很悲觀的情境但是呢就誠如我們的報告所說的到目前為止呢這都是僅供參考而已啦因為後續還有談判啊什麼之類的所以這個就是還有一點就是主攻參考啦"},{"start":4283.012,"end":4309.603,"text":"只供參考總裁請問你認為我們政府需不需要調整整個政策方向換句話說新南向國家萬一受關稅關稅戰的影響政府會不會調整既定的政策計畫會不會我想台灣是一個是一個小型開放的經濟體我們國際化還是要國際化的國際化還是國際化但是這一次的關稅的政策"},{"start":4310.663,"end":4322.939,"text":"因為它的一個供應鏈的一個場所呢還是會做一些某些的調整所以還是會調整的還是會對啦事前要防範啦要做多元啦怎麼去杜絕防範好謝謝謝謝林委員的質詢下一位請吳秉樂委員質詢請"},{"start":4342.694,"end":4346.917,"text":"主席麻煩請財政部專部長昨天川普宣布這個都回到10%的這個基準"},{"start":4364.164,"end":4385.204,"text":"就是暫緩90天 暫緩90天內就是要談判可是美國的另外一個政策就是他對中國關稅不斷沒有降 還做了幾個動作第一個 小額包裹 全部從5月2號開始要收稅而且要加到90%"},{"start":4387.27,"end":4405.677,"text":"因為美國有10億件的小額包裹絕大多數都是從中國去的那我就是在這個地方已經問過很多次了我認為小額包裹進到台灣來的免稅額度現在你們的規定是新台幣2000塊這個對台灣的製造業是不公平的"},{"start":4409.932,"end":4438.469,"text":"台灣的製造業的廠商產品從工廠出來還要貨物稅 還要營業稅各項的稅金結果從中國來的包裹2000塊以下是免稅這就讓台灣的廠商先天上就處於一個不公平競爭的關係這個我已經跟你提過很多次了而且去年前年都有提過"},{"start":4439.468,"end":4452.455,"text":"那你以前給我的回答就是說因為全世界大家都有這個小額商品小額包括免稅的規定所以你認為台灣調整的那個時機還沒到那美國這次調整了那台灣要不要調整啊"},{"start":4459.5,"end":4478.745,"text":"美國是要跟他課90%的關稅我還不敢說要求這樣只是說應該也要照其他貨品的這樣關稅來課這個你的看法怎麼樣是謝謝委員 委員確實好幾次有提到這個那因為尤其是我們的小豪包裹來自於海運快遞的相當的多"},{"start":4479.301,"end":4505.778,"text":"而且這裡面是中國大陸裡面佔的比例更高達五成以上那至於對於所謂少額的包裹是否免稅目前來說免稅的兩千塊是不是要做一個調整這個也是目前我們正在做一個分析的部分也就是說因為美國是對中國大陸所進口的這個小的包裹的部分課徵百分之九十的稅那我們這個部分是不是要做調整是可以做一個思考的"},{"start":4506.243,"end":4534.664,"text":"因為我們主要的也是從中國來的中國都是用低價的商品用這個走這個漏洞小額包裹免稅的這個漏洞源源不絕地一直來啊其實就造成了台灣的製造業處於一個不公平的競爭關係所以逼得台灣的製造業過去必須要外移要移到中國 移到東南亞這跟這個有關啊所以如果像看美國的政策川普的政策他是要讓製造業重回美國"},{"start":4535.865,"end":4547.079,"text":"那如果台灣要重新扶植我們的製造業這個小額包括這個我強烈建議好好檢討我認為我是贊成完全取消的好第二個問題電商有一些台灣的電商就落地了"},{"start":4554.534,"end":4579.1,"text":"也有一些外國的電商落地沒有落地的電商會造成一個問題我一直在擔憂這個問題 我也跟你提過對於民法的加害給付無法處理今天進來不是說這個東西瑕疵不好用 品質不好不是只有這個問題喔如果進來的東西 舉一個例子 進來是有毒的"},{"start":4580.509,"end":4609.543,"text":"穿在身上引起過敏的或是說拿到什麼樣子的簡單的電器品結果它是爆炸的這個在民法上叫加害己負啊加害己負是除了產品本身沒有那個價值之外對於使用者還造成了傷害這個民法裡面規定這是要損害賠償的嘛或是走契約關係的不完全己負要求賠償兩條路徑可是電商如果沒有落地啊"},{"start":4611.091,"end":4637.367,"text":"請問消費者要去跟誰糾纏確實委員非常關注這個問題但是我們目前我們知道有關在我們已經要求這些網路要辦理這個稅籍登記大家都有落機那當然還有您提的就是沒有落地的部分確實在消費上會對消費者的保護是不夠的我現在要跟你講我的想法不是只有落地還要要求在台灣登記的資本額要實收"},{"start":4638.646,"end":4665.034,"text":"我舉個例子淘寶網隨便賣到台灣來的瑕疵貨品如果對消費者造成傷害我要求償啊那求償他要有資歷啊如果他落地之後他的資本額是很低的他的一兩百萬登記的資本額那我告他他都賠不起而且大家知道嗎國際這些貨物的流通喔有時候一進來的數量就相當大他有可能造成集體消費者的傷害"},{"start":4666.368,"end":4672.244,"text":"過去我們說有一些中國來的這些或是東南亞來的這些家具"},{"start":4673.274,"end":4699.185,"text":"你用記的但是在裡面如果那個害蟲沒有防治或是那個塗料有含超過台灣的這個可以核准的標準這些都有可能間接造成消費者的損害所以我在這裡要跟你說不是只有要落地我要要求要落地而且要要求有足夠的資本額當它發生這樣子的對消費者造成損害的時候還有求償的機會"},{"start":4700.586,"end":4718.3,"text":"不然難道要叫台灣的消費者跑到中國去打官司告他那邊的人嗎早就人去樓空不知道在哪裡啦對委員這個建議喔因為財政部這邊主要是稅籍登記那您剛剛提到的一個資本額以及相關的登記我們會跟經濟部這個部分再來討論經濟部的次長不是有來嗎來請上台好"},{"start":4729.588,"end":4753.473,"text":"我剛剛講的問題你應該有聽到啦那政策上面一定要趕快研議趕快這樣處理因為我覺得這個未來一定會造我在這個地方斷言不處理未來一定會發生那你發生的時候你不要讓他說沒有辦法因為電商沒有落地對你造成的所謂你自己到他的國家去告他這樣子消費者是不能接受的喔"},{"start":4754.486,"end":4774.958,"text":"市長你的看法怎麼樣我們會照委員的提醒我們回去來研議你現在看人家金管會有一些金融商品要落地公司必須要落地不然不能讓他做交易你那個金融是商品你這個是實質貨物商品更需要這樣"},{"start":4777.668,"end":4792.615,"text":"金融商品造成的金融損失你這個商品實質的商品還有可能造成人身身體的損害呢所以可以取法於人家的這樣的規定要求這些落地 請你回座再來要請教部長其實"},{"start":4796.096,"end":4824.168,"text":"這一次你知道越南為什麼要去跟美國談關稅美國都不要跟他談你知道什麼原因嗎當然他提了除了關稅稅率之外還有美方也認為說你還有非關稅的貿易壁壘的問題存在最重要的問題就是認為在幫中國的產品洗產地洗產地所以這是一個台灣未來要面對很嚴肅的問題台灣如果被美國認定有在幫中國的商品洗產地"},{"start":4826.38,"end":4851.767,"text":"我們可能將來最嚴重要承擔跟中國一樣的關稅所以這個是其實我個人的認知啊川普出這個重權目的第一目標就是對準中國所以為什麼東南亞這些國家都跟美國講說那我們都不要關稅 我們關稅都零川普仍然不能接受 美國仍然不能接受就是因為他在對付中國的起產地"},{"start":4852.759,"end":4880.607,"text":"好那你知道台灣目前有哪一些東西可能有這些嫌疑的跟委員報告對於有關席產地也就是違規轉運這個部分我們都非常重視那在海關的部分已經建置了三道防線就是事前的預防事中的嚴查以及事後的嚴懲罰事中的管理那這個部分的在三道防線之下事實上我們已經有相關的績效抓到一些"},{"start":4881.107,"end":4900.624,"text":"抓到一些這種違規轉印的情形同時我們也跟經濟部這邊成立一個橫向的一個機制也就對於我們認為高風險的廠商我們都會定時的名冊給經濟部然後他們對於在核發有關產地證明或許可證的時候要更加的嚴格審核那在我們海關的部分也會再做經濟"},{"start":4902.225,"end":4921.086,"text":"杜絕這個違規轉運你的自由貿易港區喔 境內關外中國的貨品送到自由貿易港區來不用進到台灣的關轉口出去這個要做詳細的調查跟統計我們這個漏洞如果被美國抓住了對台灣是不可承受之重"},{"start":4921.98,"end":4941.446,"text":"所以我是先把這個話講在這邊喔你們執政者要很小心這個問題因為美國現在既然要用這麼高的關稅對抗中國對付中國中國跟他高度對抗所以美國會更重視其產地的問題不要為了那一點點的銀頭小利"},{"start":4943.306,"end":4950.192,"text":"去讓整個國家的貿易崩潰那個後果是非常嚴重的要加油好不好好 加油 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝吳秉瑞 吳委員來 繼續 來賴昭偉 來賴世袍"},{"start":4966.62,"end":4976.852,"text":"謝謝主席 有請央行的楊總裁 以及財政部的莊部長以及經管會的彭主委三位長官三位長官好"},{"start":4987.72,"end":4998.167,"text":"最近這個禮拜都是川普週大家大街小巷談著川普他現在本來大家看起來一副1930年代1929、1930年那時候的美國總統"},{"start":5006.598,"end":5023.334,"text":"那時候也是做兩件事情一件 關稅引起關稅的大戰第二個呢他做一個升息這點川普比較聰明川普比較準備降息所以那時候開始就來一個大蕭條"},{"start":5025.832,"end":5038.284,"text":"這個美國的股市花25年才讓它回到原來那個水準所以這個東西很慘烈啊 看起來很慘烈那現在 這個好不容易川普啊 這個說暫停90天只剋10%了 美股大漲"},{"start":5043.888,"end":5046.552,"text":"從此我們台灣的股市從此過上幸福美滿的日子一路往上攀升"},{"start":5060.127,"end":5085.143,"text":"要我回答嗎我剛剛也在講就是說金融市場他很顧忌的就是不確定性那所以也就是說這三個月給他緩衝因為這三個月他的結果是什麼還不曉得所以基本上整個的市場還是會籠罩在不確定性"},{"start":5085.983,"end":5102.893,"text":"所以不確定就不會一路往上衝因為他可能會做某些就也許有些時候會上去但是也許有些時候風吹草動的時候他又會下來所以不會就說現在美國要的資源不都滿足了他現在要的就是他這個財政部長講說640幾億的貿易逆差其實也從美國的資料算是739億那我算這個來講的話來講的話"},{"start":5115.561,"end":5133.931,"text":"台灣雖然現在90天裡面暫時豁免但是還是要課10%喔但是原來是1.7%中間就差8.3%8.3%是什麼概念我們去美國多少一年的輸出多少去年1100多億1100多億我們乘以8.3%大概90幾億美金整合台幣3000億所以從現在開始"},{"start":5145.356,"end":5149.241,"text":"他雖然把我們說要暫時90天暫時WAVE掉暫時免除32%可是我們關稅仍然多付3000多億給美國"},{"start":5156.961,"end":5160.243,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說我們出口出去的產品他進口台灣的產品那這個要分大類可以分三種產品一種產品他就是他剛需他比較需要的"},{"start":5177.054,"end":5191.081,"text":"那需要的話 那這個就是說我沒有時間 只能聽你分析喔你現在就跟我講這個數字對不對啦對 這個呢 這個就是說你講的就是說是最嚴重的時候是最嚴重沒有 最嚴重就是這個數字在這裡喔最嚴重的 來來來這個再確定一下喔他講說75國戰死後面 有沒有報告台灣確定"},{"start":5200.001,"end":5227.197,"text":"他這個七十五國就應該是有包含了沒有應該還是確定這個我不曉得莊部長要不要確定一下七十五國有沒有包含台灣確定沒有他是講七十五國有去表達跟美國去協商那至於後來我們剛剛有講那個白宮的秘書有華爾街日報有他有表達他有直接就說除了中國以外"},{"start":5227.797,"end":5243.04,"text":"其他的國家可增基本的關稅就加增10%的基本關稅可是他這次靠的是全國全世界是一百八十幾個國家欸不是只有只有只有七七七只有八十個國家不是欸他靠的是一百八十幾個國家"},{"start":5243.641,"end":5263.285,"text":"就是全部的國家它是加徵10%的關稅另外有其他大概57個國家是加徵到另外有加一個4月9號以後是高於10的11到50%的一個對等關稅這個部分還有加25%的還有加25%的25%的那個是232的貿易條款裡面所以它也有一些暫時豁免的一些部分是"},{"start":5271.28,"end":5276.494,"text":"沒有 所以我就問你 你還沒有給答案嘛台灣是不是確定在這75個豁免國家裡面 有沒有"},{"start":5280.9,"end":5308.371,"text":"美国新闻秘书所发布的就是它有证实这个部分确实是所有国家征收百分之十的九十天的期间所有国家加征百分之十的关税那当然中国不在里面啦就是确定嘛中国大陆不在里面我们在里面根据它这样的证实那现在我们现在来讲说我们的进口从美国进口我们要零关税这样子税损多少"},{"start":5311.236,"end":5331.745,"text":"至於零關稅這個部分根據總統也提到說從零關稅開始去跟他們去做談判那至於最後是不是所有的貨品是不是零關稅我想我們的貿易談判的工作小組他會去做模擬各種方式所以他不知道這個部分我們先跟報告的就是說我們知道去年的我們從美國進口的一個"},{"start":5333.966,"end":5335.147,"text":"4百多億美金客徵對美國徵收的關稅是7.5億美金"},{"start":5343.262,"end":5364.718,"text":"7.5億美金美國計算7.5億美金但是裡面很多農產品對農民的損失對農民的壓力非常大的這個部分當然產業主管機關會去衡量第三個部分各縣市政府都希望財政部給他降稅"},{"start":5368.481,"end":5386.59,"text":"這個時間總裁也講了現在不穩定喔還不穩定喔沒有因此走上一個幸福快樂的日子還沒有喔還沒有到not ready yet你這個怎麼回應各地方政府希望能夠降稅降你的營所稅或降什麼稅whatever"},{"start":5387.571,"end":5410.417,"text":"有沒有可能這個部分對於有關的產業供應鏈的一個支持方案行政院已經提出了那支持方案裡面的一些項目或有沒有減稅這一項沒有減稅這一項沒有減稅這一項租稅的部分第一個租稅部分產創條例裡面有相關的一些減稅的優惠以及我們今天也我們也同時提到在我們的報告也提到"},{"start":5410.897,"end":5436.483,"text":"如果廠商受到或者民眾受到這個衝擊的話那稅可以申請延分期繳納分期繳納或者延後繳納沒有減稅這個所以沒有減稅這個選項啦所以地方政府是白搭的啦白講的啦那我再請教這個彭主委啊台灣的股市過去幾天是不是已經進入休市了是不是"},{"start":5437.709,"end":5461.23,"text":"當然沒有 我們過去其實兩天交易量其實非常正常熊市是看你的跌幅啊不是那個當然是比如說剛才像今天跌幅超過120了對 當然比如說學理上有一個所謂的熊市的定義不過熊市還是要看它實際上的狀況我們看今天的情況如果說回復以外就按照那個定義其實上可能還不到那個程度"},{"start":5463.444,"end":5484.245,"text":"其實從去年的七月中到今年的一月初啊就已經跌了22.9%那時候老實講 從去年中到今年初如果按照20%的一個講法就是熊死了所以好 那今天這樣子活著暫時豁免90%要有他的立場 你有你立場"},{"start":5485.633,"end":5500.981,"text":"從此台灣的股市是不是一路順利往上走當然今晚會不會去預測未來的走勢那我想說因為他是充分的反應我想各位如果有比較過過去這個台灣的產業結構還跟國際股市的發展台灣在這三天確實是"},{"start":5506.944,"end":5518.61,"text":"應該是有疊的比較多那實際上我覺得應該製作事實的回覆我想這個部分應該是很合理的好 請兩位長官先回座我再請那個楊總裁楊總裁啊是你在這裡回覆一個立委講說外匯存底92%買美債這個是確定嗎 對不對這個沒有確定"},{"start":5533.516,"end":5541.022,"text":"你都公開回答了不是我公開我是我們的副總裁副總裁講錯了但是是確實他是說錯了"},{"start":5543.234,"end":5547.596,"text":"還是多少我們應該又說是8以前我就講過啦我們的美債大概有八成以上八成八十八十一八十二八九八成八成以上因為我也不能就是說跟你講是一個確定的數據為什麼呢因為匯率呢匯率都時常在變動所以這個比例也多大概85左右可以這樣講嗎"},{"start":5572.421,"end":5583.985,"text":"可以這樣猜 我猜85%左右沒有人沒講我只能說是80%以上85%也是80%以上啊現在有一種講法說川普為什麼把這次跟世界這樣子"},{"start":5593.289,"end":5598.879,"text":"開這個手術大刀就是希望能夠解決他的美債的問題因為美債超過36兆美金這個講法對吧"},{"start":5605.919,"end":5630.508,"text":"對啦 也可以這麼說但是我覺得比較準確的說法是說他要把美國的政府的deficit就是他的budget deficit要能夠下降下來對嘛 就是要減少他的美債嘛那以現在來講的話日本或者大陸都在拋售美債"},{"start":5632.789,"end":5654.519,"text":"500億最近有一個數字跑出來了雖然還沒有到最後Final這樣子因為他今年6月美國6.5兆的美金6.5兆國庫券再到期了被要求轉入長債長債高達30年50年那利率更低有的甚至一到0"},{"start":5655.419,"end":5676.031,"text":"一百年常在因為你看它常在三十年期的多現在比十年期的多還高啊怎麼有可能就是說那個把它到一百年那然後呢是零利率這個是不可能的不可能那不可能外面有媒體這樣破頭我覺得這是不可能的好最後一點我們就請潘主委上來請那個楊總裁下去請"},{"start":5682.114,"end":5709.876,"text":"本身有一個小問題我們就可以下去了不少出入股市者怕被斷頭用保單 用信貸來支應萬一股市再跌要像這樣 stable 完全穩定會不會產生系統性的風暴儘管會怎麼來對這些人這些人很多是剛加入股市的特別是年輕的剛大學畢業或者在學生 在校學生"},{"start":5710.837,"end":5728.569,"text":"其實跟委員報告其實我們非常關注這個問題我們也隨時請交易所關注這個比如說他們這些的profile長什麼樣我們發現這個段頭的大概是七成大概就是40到69歲的族群是占最多數那其實這個部分當然人數最近比較多"},{"start":5729.389,"end":5758.428,"text":"但是我覺得我們這個部分呢還在一個可控我們是會提供一些盡量提供一些協助像我們的第一波的像我們第一波的方案裡面也提到就是說再來就是我們希望可以比如說這個補這個擔保品的部分呢能夠更多元我們市場上反映很多問題我們就立刻去解決當然有些系統上的問題不是一下就能解決不過我們這部分呢我們就盡量去協助這些因為這個不確定因素而遭受一時之間沒辦法融通的這些"},{"start":5759.328,"end":5774.479,"text":"現在目前看起來還不至於我覺得你需要跟這些年輕的對外多教育教育我們還是真的是非常非常的關心這個問題我們持續的就請教育所這邊會關注 謝謝好 下一位請 郭光榮"},{"start":5795.143,"end":5799.426,"text":"主席有請彭族偉莊部長楊總裁經濟部次長以及農業部副農業部次長"},{"start":5812.534,"end":5829.479,"text":"主委好 總裁好 大家好我先請教一下莊部長莊部長你也知道我在媒體上有一些發言就是五千億的安定基金到底夠不夠原來的這個照我們的市值大概8.1兆大概佔比大概6.1現在73.6兆的情況底下的佔比剩下0.67那國安基金已經"},{"start":5834.82,"end":5855.278,"text":"預計已經要進去了,雖然使用率沒有那麼高但是金額多一點,那總會大家比較安心嘛主要是安定安心嘛,對不對不一定要用到足嘛請問一下,你這五千億用了多少了?委員報告,五千億裡面當然有兩千億我知道,這我都知道,兩千三百我都知道你就不用講那個我們知道的common sense好不好這現在用了多少?"},{"start":5856.244,"end":5868.05,"text":"現在用的多 這次啊這個部分執行秘書來做我不會知道他會不會給你報告部長完全沒有掌握都給他處理在國安基金裡面我只是其中的一個委員那你總是要知道你要掌握狀況吧"},{"start":5873.292,"end":5886.969,"text":"對啊 他執行秘書也是 你是他的上司不是嗎那我上次還問你說呢是不是要增加 你也是說要需要進行合理的評估嘛 對不對那請問一下評估了沒有"},{"start":5887.903,"end":5915.081,"text":"我們已經有做評估了交代了沒有那結果呢評估呢評估的結果那我們覺得在適當的時機也許會做處理吧適當的時機也許會再做調整所以現在這麼嚴重還不是適當的時機今天股市已經回彈了今天是今天剛剛楊總才跟你講說還不確定不穩定嘛他可以一下子半夜跟你講說延久10天搞不好後天跟你講搞不好又變縮短成40天當然變動性蠻大的"},{"start":5916.662,"end":5923.086,"text":"川普就像天氣一樣變來變去 難以琢磨比女人還女人所以這種情況你難以預測川普嘛天氣或許還可以預測"},{"start":5933.672,"end":5960.52,"text":"好 那我現在問你嘛你不變硬萬變嘛好 我現在問啊基本上你怕非理性的崩盤的情況底下非理性的崩盤的情況底下你國安精心是適時的去做多好 那彭主委彭主委你的限空令基本上是防阻過度的放空嘛那一個限空的情況底下一個要做多的情況底下你們彼此有沒有一個協調機制請問你其實我們在"},{"start":5962.14,"end":5987.267,"text":"資本市場的管理部分涉及到這種重大事件的時候我們當然跟各個部會之間都保持密切的溝通但是我們有各自各個的職場密切的溝通的情況底下有去掌握同步要如何讓它恢復到理性跟基本面才是目標嘛不是嗎當然回復到正常的市場機制是我們在金融市場監理一個最重要的目標就是這個最重要嘛所以說你才會有一個限空它才會有國安基金進場嘛那兩邊的協調你們是怎麼協調法"},{"start":5990.068,"end":6015.546,"text":"這當然跟委員報告其實這部分因為其實有各種狀況不同都不同因為每次的情形看起來非常類似但是都很大的不同那像今天已經漲到這種情況底下那我就問你一件事嘛原來的先空令是不是到明天結束我們的暫行措施我們上次宣布到五天那我就請教你啊下禮拜還會不會有我們會在星期六的下午宣布會不會在下午幾點"},{"start":6016.887,"end":6035.009,"text":"因為下午我們要先看國際的這個狀況因為我們有那個時間的落差在整個國際的盤勢的情況底下來做一個下午的宣布來看看下個禮拜是不是要延長這個限空令是的 我們現在是這樣預計的預計嘛 目前這樣預計好 那個兩位稍微那個主委你先請回謝謝"},{"start":6036.731,"end":6047.479,"text":"我先請教一下總裁還有包括其他的部會總裁我試著去看川普的這一種連環計是不是這樣子你站在總體經濟來說第一個先關稅戰逼著你來我這邊設廠減少貿易之間的一個逆差"},{"start":6055.305,"end":6077.987,"text":"第二個呢 他一來設廠的話 製造業就可以復興復興之後呢 而且同時打擊中國息產地 創造他的就業機會第三呢 採取美元貶值的方式 來打擊外匯的操縱國然後第四個呢 賺取外匯 然後減少國債把短債變成長債 有沒有可能是這種套路啊"},{"start":6080.19,"end":6106.167,"text":"我想Step 1就是說關稅戰這個我覺得是邏輯上是可以的是對的那製造業復興這個也是對的不過美國要製造業除非就是說是重點式的復興它不可能就是全面復興因為人力什麼的都不大一樣只要在川普的重要選區復興就可以但美元貶值拼出口這個也不見得會因為"},{"start":6109.309,"end":6134.507,"text":"匯率也不是說他要讓他貶值就貶值不是喔對這麼有把握對這個除非就是說就像那個什麼你現在談到匯率我們就來聊一下嘛你知道川普他基本上有一個Mirren的經濟顧問嘛那Mirren他裡頭有提到說那個美元基本上是過度被高估所以說25%"},{"start":6136.688,"end":6153.968,"text":"沒有人的建議就是說應該走弱勢美元應該把它貶值20%的這種說法讓整個製造業回流那這個方式如果說按照目前它在公開的檔案當中從關稅戰然後一直到美元的這種貶值有一個路徑圖喔"},{"start":6155.728,"end":6171.509,"text":"可是呢總裁你記不記得我們上一次討論上個會期討論的時候我就請教你說川普會走強勢美元還是走弱勢美元可是顯然這個經濟顧問的看法跟你絕然不同嘛不是嗎沒有沒有我跟委員報告"},{"start":6173.371,"end":6201.241,"text":"事實上前沒有多久他的財政部長才說他們還是希望強勢美元可是他們財政部長是邊緣啊我跟你報告事實上呢匯率呢是財政部在主掌的所以說你認為他不會走弱勢美元這個當然財政部長說是強勢美元但是呢我想委員也知道就是說川普的個性就是說我說了算我說了算那沒有辦法部長說的沒有算"},{"start":6203.102,"end":6218.555,"text":"但是呢 一貫以來啊 我跟委員報告就是說一貫以來 美國的財政部呢 都是希望美元強勢強勢美元 所以說就你跟財政部的美國財政部溝通是走強勢美元所以這個貶值的路線不會這樣走就是了"},{"start":6225.412,"end":6237.464,"text":"所以我跟委員報告前財政部長Alan他都一直認為匯率呢匯率講說是弱勢美元或是強勢美元他都認為就是說好像這個也不對他認為就是說匯率是由市場來決定總裁"},{"start":6247.314,"end":6267.772,"text":"說是這樣說啦華盛頓廣場協議你也非常清楚啦他用美國的實力來影響你其他的貿易對象逼著貿易對象來生死嘛他現在沒有逼著你貿易對象生死第一個就把你關稅提高嘛第二個他如果再加上把你貶值的話你看台灣以出口貿易為導向的這個經濟體如何去面對我現在擔心的地方就是在這邊啦"},{"start":6269.394,"end":6285.951,"text":"委員擔心的是很正常很合理邏輯上是對的啦不過呢我想呢我們會密切注意這件事總裁你稍作休息我請一下部長因為賴清德總統已經有去這個彭博社新聞社裡頭書第一個他就強調說要一定要洗產地"},{"start":6290.339,"end":6312.388,"text":"你到底有沒有什麼方式好洗產地越南的方式洗產地的方式怎麼洗產地呢他就在科徵中國的這個稅金高達25%有沒有可能比照辦理 部長洗產地的部分其實我們的關務署跟經濟部都是強一直非常密切的合作我們剛才報告過就是海關裡面有三道的防線除了防線之外有沒有可能用稅的這個工具啦有沒有可能我是問你這個問題嘛"},{"start":6313.611,"end":6336.412,"text":"洗產地的目的最主要就是說他從中國進口以後他就改了一個就是Made in Taiwan的一個標籤然後再出去這個就是一個洗產地這個部分我們要杜絕一定會杜絕而且也強力的查核那三道防線實施以後有一定的成效那我們最近也一直在做精進的滾動的精進讓他可以更嚴厲更更嚴密是好謝謝經濟部的次長我們次長"},{"start":6338.8,"end":6357.959,"text":"那個何次長何次你現在的狀況好像重但是放在經濟部第一個的部分是說你們要採買採買的部分我算一算這個石油的部分採買你大概憨不啷噹有沒有可能天然氣加石油有沒有可能多100億的可能性它總共大概360億左右"},{"start":6359.71,"end":6387.7,"text":"是就是短約跟長約大概有三是短約大概三到四成的左右有沒有可能訂單移轉有沒有可能是當然這是一個可能性盡量來達到擴大那加強投資的部分呢就減少貿易逆差現在也在進行是好這兩個你們現在負責這兩個對我們那個杜次長杜次我們現階段跟美國的這個貿易是美國是屬於順差的部分農產品是28億"},{"start":6389.201,"end":6418.294,"text":"可是我們主要的部分是黃豆跟玉米的部分還有一些空間主要是跟巴西買嘛有沒有可能轉向美國其實美國這邊因為就我們的業者來講第一個品質當然要穩定第二個價格要合理那以美國來看這最近的黃豆玉米價格報價其實都非常可接受所以說有可能轉單我們業者確實是有然後貿易逆差不為了逆差也為了他們自己就是整個糧食的來源供應穩定跟品質好然後但是現在我們就是在貿易的問題嘛"},{"start":6418.974,"end":6433.756,"text":"不是一個供應的問題嘛最後請教一下總裁總裁你上一次的報告當中有特別提到說要購買農產品要增加投資嘛還有增加採買嘛對不對這三項嘛還有還買武器嘛對不對可是買武器的部分有算在裡頭嗎"},{"start":6435.618,"end":6448.645,"text":"據我們了解好像武器有一部分是它有放在裡面但是我知道好像大部分沒有即便我們現在2.5%的GDP淺搭3%的話約內可以採買的這個武器大概剩下44億的空間所以說你這樣的說法這44億當中真的能夠達到貿易平衡的效果到底有多少你們評估一下只有一部分嘛"},{"start":6466.274,"end":6492.262,"text":"我們記得我們在了解的稍微了解一下要不然我們寫得夯不啷噹好像國人很有信心但是事實上沒有那麼多的情況底下相關的單位就要增加其他的方式來平衡貿易的可能性好不好好謝謝大家謝謝好謝謝郭國文的質詢下一位請賴會員請林思敏委員質詢對不起沒有看到"},{"start":6499.639,"end":6508.932,"text":"好 謝謝主席主席我先請我們經濟部核次長還有農業部杜次長農業部杜次長好 梁院次長"},{"start":6518.159,"end":6525.843,"text":"我想今天針對川普的對等關稅我們看到一個好消息就是說他暫停90天這樣對等的關稅在這90天內都降至10%讓大家暫時鬆一口氣"},{"start":6533.507,"end":6544.611,"text":"那我相信政府有更多的時間籌碼跟空間可以跟美國展開這個貿易的關稅的對等的談判所以我今天就針對未來經貿的談判我國會面對的問題來就教兩位"},{"start":6550.782,"end":6573.257,"text":"那我們看到在對等關稅的實施後美國貿易代表署在4月8號接著就宣布10項不公平的貿易行為雖然我們台灣沒有名列其中但是報告中還是有點名台灣對美規車設置技術性的貿易障礙以及我們台灣要求落實豬肉"},{"start":6574.538,"end":6598.084,"text":"產品的原產地標示以及對某些美牛的產品實施反鎖檢查的做法他認為這是貿易的一個障礙會影響關稅的一個政策美國表示反對認為這是傷害性的貿易行為所以美國公布這些不公平的貿易行為是否就是在暗示如果我們要跟美國來談判對等關稅"},{"start":6600.725,"end":6614.837,"text":"這些就是必須要讓我們讓步的一個地方這是第一個問題第二個對於我們美豬產地的標示對美牛的進口限制美國是要求我們要全面的解禁美國的牛肉產品"},{"start":6615.798,"end":6632.331,"text":"並且與基改食品可進入校園且要跟非基改食品是列為同一個分類號列美國的這相關的一個政策是否會影響我們政府為了談判成功"},{"start":6633.092,"end":6650.283,"text":"而修改我們或者放寬我們現行相關的限制或修改相關的規定此外對於美規汽車的關稅部分是否也會往下調整那麼依序先請經濟部何市長來回答"},{"start":6651.667,"end":6667.716,"text":"好那謝謝委員的提問那有關美規汽車的這個一些限制的這個部分我想這個是交通部的這個權責那我想我們也會注意到這樣的一個現象那因為談判我們"},{"start":6669.502,"end":6682.13,"text":"國家會有一個整體的策略所以我們也不在這裡講得太細畢竟我們還是要留一些談判的籌碼在手上市長這問題我聽起來你沒辦法回答這個權責就是說對美國汽車數量的限制這個部分我想"},{"start":6692.916,"end":6718.144,"text":"不是 我說要放關 關稅的問題是你的選擇關稅的部分 當然我們是希望就是說盡量能夠足年是不是足年能夠來調降其實市長我的問題是說因為美國現在就是要求我們這幾個產品項目他要求我們關稅他進口進來我們要降低"},{"start":6719.244,"end":6745.58,"text":"所以我們的因應措施是什麼我要問你這個問題有沒有可能就是他要求什麼我們就接受什麼他跟你講說你的汽車關稅要降低啊要放寬美規車進口到台灣的一個關稅報告委員其實委員提示的這個部分其實我們都會納入到談判的內容那容我稍微做一些保留因為這個部分確實不能再"},{"start":6746.801,"end":6764.185,"text":"講太多把我們的底線掀出來我的呼籲跟要求是希望政府的談判代表不能讓美國欲取欲求我們相關的我們國家的關稅政策我們還是要我們還是堅守國內的產業最大的利益為主再請杜市長對於我剛才講的美豬美牛的一個進口我們相關的限制規定會不會做一個放寬"},{"start":6776.627,"end":6799.43,"text":"好,謝謝委員關心,因為其實在農產品這塊,特別是在豬肉這塊,其實要求來自原產地的國家,要不要說,這是對每個國家都一樣,不是只針對美國,那其實這個目的是,第一個當然是我們台灣的豬肉,或是美國來的豬肉,加拿大的豬肉,或者是西班牙的豬肉,讓消費者可以看到他吃到的豬肉是哪個國家,這只是讓消費者知道,沒有..."},{"start":6800.671,"end":6810.255,"text":"所以你是說政府是否可能會為了談判成功未來會放寬相關的限制或修改規定我們的立場你要講清楚說明不會啦我希望不會啦我們要保護我們的個人的健康嘛"},{"start":6819.179,"end":6829.988,"text":"甚至我剛提到的就是基改食品可進入校園這個部分跟非基改食品他們要求必須列為同一批貨號的列序"},{"start":6833.451,"end":6848.669,"text":"所以這個規定我們不可能去做修改吧你要保護我們學童的安全啊這應該是衛福部跟教育部他們在商量不是 為了在談判這個都跟你們的業務相關嘛你在談判上面如果美國做這方面的要求我們應該要去堅守"},{"start":6850.491,"end":6857.595,"text":"我想所有的談判都是以臺當然是以保護臺灣農業為最優先接下來我再請經濟部次長川普他8號在共和黨的全國委員會活動表示若是台積電如果不在美國設廠就要開徵關稅100%所以除了川普這個最新的談話"},{"start":6878.327,"end":6897.666,"text":"經濟部是否知悉川普是希望台積電還要再投資一千億在美國是否有要求台積電必須在未來三年內要全數移轉關鍵技術到美國經濟部你是否有完全確實的掌握台積電到美國的投資條件內容"},{"start":6899.838,"end":6922.168,"text":"根本報告就是台積電的這個全球的佈局應該由台積電這邊公司來跟對外來做宣佈我們政府這邊就針對他對外投資所以他的投資內容你現在一無所惜一無所惜他已經在公開的場合已經有宣佈他未來他宣佈他要去投資嘛但是未來的投資的內容難道我們經濟部不用去把關嗎"},{"start":6926.109,"end":6951.286,"text":"他說要全部過去你就全部讓他過去啊跟我們報告我們有個投資省力的機制我們有個投資省力的機制當然我們會站在就是國家的產業最大利益的我想我的看法是說你們應該要做砂盤推演啦因為遇到這種關稅的問題我們即便台積電宣示說要過去美國投資要投資一千億川普還不滿意他說你要再加碼投資一千億"},{"start":6952.367,"end":6976.682,"text":"就欲取欲求啊所以政府面對這種問題當關稅大概今天有90天的一個暫停期所以我的意思是說你們是不是好好要去盤點如果萬一萬一90天過後川普還是堅持我們台灣要被這麼高的一個對等關稅那我們台積電是否你們有考量有沙盤推演"},{"start":6978.018,"end":6990.236,"text":"可能在放行的時候他的一個未來的投審會要嚴格的把關啊而不是說他喊多少我們就給多少啊這個是不是你們應該要做沙盤推演"},{"start":6991.663,"end":6996.068,"text":"所以我是呼籲說政治經濟部對於台積電要不要放行這一個部分我們要審慎的考量來對應美國的高關稅的一個政策"},{"start":7009.181,"end":7015.267,"text":"另外我想針對這個880億的紓困預算農業部是180億經濟部是700億賴總統在4月6號也跟國人說政府已經完成盤點對美國採購農工石油跟天然氣等採購計畫也已經派員前往美國談判"},{"start":7031.303,"end":7058.728,"text":"今天我們看到報紙也寫我們林佳龍外交部的林部長他說台灣已經跟美國建立溝通管道談判機制正在與美方對接中期待很快就可以展開實質內容的談判我想請教兩位次長談判代表是否對於美國要求我們增加採購跟擴大投資照單全收"},{"start":7061.482,"end":7088.475,"text":"會這樣嗎跟委員報告我聽起來好像我們現在看到的氛圍就是普遍認為好像我們政府對於美國的他的所有的他的一個提議我們全部照單全收跟委員報告其實我們大概有盤點一些可以對美擴大採購的一個項目那我們這些資訊也都提供給相關的這個談判的部門來對美國在談判的過程裡面所以政府有設下底線"},{"start":7090.236,"end":7104.776,"text":"有設下底線啦不可能說他講什麼我們就全部招攬全收啊當然這個我們在談判過程一定會有這樣的一個考量是所以你們現在到目前為止你們有什麼樣的考量啊你們的因應措施是什麼當然就是說我們"},{"start":7106.317,"end":7126.338,"text":"要符合就是要擴大對美採購的這樣的一個就是最主要是平衡的平衡貿易逆差的這個部分那我想我們大概經濟部這邊就我們說可能油氣這個部分所以對美的採購就是如果他要求我們擴大投資或者對美的相關的採購"},{"start":7128.039,"end":7145.752,"text":"經濟部也好 農業部也好對於他要求我們去購買他的農產品這部分你們是不是有設定一定的一個底線嘛我的問題就是這麼簡單啊當然我們把最大貿易談判代表出去但是我們基本上我們要談什麼"},{"start":7147.691,"end":7166.862,"text":"我們自己要的底線在哪裡完全都完全毫無所惜不知道到目前都沒有任何的措施跟委員報告因為就如同我剛跟委員說明的其實談判一定有很多的情境各種很複雜的因素那這些情境其實也不宜在我們在這裡講得太清楚"},{"start":7167.722,"end":7188.876,"text":"那是不是可以給我們那個談判代表有更大的一些空間在為我們台灣爭取最大的利益我想進一步責無旁貸因為這一次我們有九十天的非常充裕的時間所以你們出去談判我希望能夠帶來很好的讓國人安心放心這樣的一個成果以上 謝謝謝謝林師傅委員的資訊下面請賴慧芸委員質詢"},{"start":7198.362,"end":7203.73,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請總裁還有財政部部長還有經濟部農業部次長經濟部的何次長 農業部的杜次長是 總裁 早安"},{"start":7214.345,"end":7228.383,"text":"總長你這幾天睡得怎麼樣睡眠品質好不好都還可以所以你是都是在你的掌握當中當然我們就是密切的注意那其實"},{"start":7231.267,"end":7246.808,"text":"這個所有的這個情境不管就是說昨天川普又就是加了這個90天的一個緩衝期跟75個國家一樣這個也是在你的掌控中嗎這個這個我們只會想就是說可能他會他會比較放鬆一點"},{"start":7248.09,"end":7266.652,"text":"但是他會說是三個月這個我們也沒辦法掌握所以你也認為在未來就是說在4月2號以後他講了以後這個32%那就是引起了很大的一個震撼他會再放鬆這個也是在你的一顧範圍內我是覺得因為整個他"},{"start":7267.313,"end":7283.295,"text":"因為他也事實上呢這個川普總統他也沒有想到就是說他美國他本身的那個股市呢會跌得那麼慘所以他還說他不是故意的所以很顯然他也沒有想到總裁你認為他美國的股市"},{"start":7284.156,"end":7300.029,"text":"不會跌得那麼慘,川普不會認為說他的那個他一開始的時候要實施之前,他就說不會啦,華爾街不會有問題但是呢,他實施了以後呢,整個就跌了連續好幾天我覺得啦,我覺得我的觀察,認為呢,他也緊張了"},{"start":7302.031,"end":7312.422,"text":"他很緊張他也緊張了所以他才會有這三個月的一個緩衝期可是我不覺得他很緊張如果他沒有很緊張的時候他不會做這樣的一個改變好"},{"start":7318.069,"end":7340.585,"text":"那你的台幣會升值還是會貶值這個我剛剛還是一直在講事實上匯率很難是現在就是說他要升他要貶事實上是由市場來決定的由市場來決定那你有沒有就是說那會不會就是這升值貶值的時候你會不會調整你的那個外匯存底你的工具在哪裡"},{"start":7342.206,"end":7359.359,"text":"我覺得就是說調節本身就是外存體來調節所以我們這一次的我們的報告裡面我們有講到這個四個因應措施我們因應措施的主要的目的就是要來穩定我們的匯率"},{"start":7360.14,"end":7384.231,"text":"好那我可以再請教你一下嗎如果這個外匯存底的話你覺得你會調整的是美債還是就是你的那個美股我想就是說要調整當然了我想我就很密切的注意這個情勢的發展不過我剛剛因為這三個在外匯存底裡頭哪一樣是佔了你的外匯存底最多你說哪一個"},{"start":7385.191,"end":7400.743,"text":"就是你的美債、你的美股還有你的美金我們主要的還是美債美債多所以中國拋售大量的美債這個也是一個攻防"},{"start":7402.511,"end":7417.311,"text":"我跟委員報告就是說市場都在說現在就是說有一些國家開始在跑美債不過我有一個數據跟委員報告事實上前沒多久美國10年期公債是4.9%降於5%"},{"start":7419.533,"end":7439.225,"text":"對那後來呢他就一直跌跌跌跌到多少跌到將近4%那現在呢最近我覺得說市場在宣傳就是說因為大家都在趴挖趴美債啊所以美國公債呢這個價格呢就是在下跌啊然後呢到目前到昨天呢他是4.34.3那我們如果說來把4.332跟這個他將近這個4.9幾來比較的話這個顯然還是很低啊"},{"start":7448.11,"end":7464.221,"text":"還是很低所以這個一切都還是在你的掌控我覺得到目前為止我們還是密切注意謝謝你的自信也讓我們感受到一邊一國跟中共我們的經濟其實台灣跟中國經濟上是分開的謝謝你剛才講的話今天股市應該會好一點"},{"start":7474.379,"end":7475,"text":"主席"},{"start":7505.139,"end":7532.488,"text":"聽然後解決什麼樣的一個問題是不是有啟動了這樣子的一個那個計劃包委員我們其實現在已經開始啟動這個產業的這個座談那我想院長跟總統也都分別在本週都會陸續到這個各相關的縣市這些產業聚落去跟這個這些產業界來做一些座談了解他們的一些心思"},{"start":7532.868,"end":7552.228,"text":"那你看我們對美出口的只要產品就是說我們在工業的部分鋼鐵、運輸、工具、機械、石化、塑膠這個運動器材啪啪的還有這個醫療器材一般的化學、家電這些東西我們可想而知這個狀況是會非常慘的不管就是說你是32%還是10%"},{"start":7554.71,"end":7583.758,"text":"甚至川普會改來改去現在只是有一個90天的一個喘息的一個機會那看到我們的農業更慘了這個讓我們更害怕這個蝴蝶蘭它本來就是茶葉毛豆無鍋魚剔頭刀這個鱸魚點點點這些榆木產業它其實也面臨到了一個很大的一個困難所以我在這裡那個次長那個我要問一下農業部次長就是在昨天"},{"start":7584.438,"end":7596.805,"text":"在本席的一個那個選區裡頭我們的蘭花生物產業我才知道就是說我陪了那個農業部長下去座談的時候我才知道這個我們這一個園區幾乎就是掛掉了完全沒有機會他們的訂單全部都是被退了"},{"start":7600.987,"end":7622.484,"text":"胡鐵蘭的電單全部都被退了所以問題不是說我們在金融上的補助他們多少甚至就是說我們去給他降稅還是說我們就是免收他們的一個租金其實他們面臨到的是一個長期的一個競爭力你看荷蘭到美國去設這個種苗廠結果我們台灣還是處在這一個地方那怎麼辦呢"},{"start":7629.689,"end":7648.398,"text":"非常謝謝委員,委員長期關切農業,特別是在我們這個蝴蝶蘭園區這一塊,很關心、很關心,也給我們一些建議,那謝謝昨天經過這樣子的座談,其實我覺得是雙向的,第一個是我們跟業者講說我們有哪些措施,第二個是我們真的是聽到業者跟我們講說還有哪些可以繼續來做,"},{"start":7649.398,"end":7652.96,"text":"農業其實不是只有成品,不是說那種蘭花有營養從品苗、從栽培、從整個過程總培到可以到末端,18個月,這18個月訂單全部都是被抽回他們本來的訂單是排了三年了,所以我覺得跨國的蘭花國家隊"},{"start":7672.551,"end":7687.265,"text":"一定要快速促成要趕快來佈局不然從此以後台灣的蝴蝶蘭在全世界就不見了要提早佈局啦快點來處理這件事情謝謝我的稻米呢我的雞啦我的豬啦這個有沒有什麼樣的一個辦法"},{"start":7689.006,"end":7710.419,"text":"市長有沒有提出一個什麼樣的一個辦法你看美國那個農產品的零關稅對台灣的農業它是一個很壞很壞的一個影響你知道台灣人都愛吃米台灣人已經關心吃最好的米在未來如果美國米進來的時候那台灣米怎麼辦那我們台灣的"},{"start":7711.969,"end":7735.7,"text":"雞肉豬肉怎麼辦市長我相信你是在這個農業上的一個前衛你也非常清楚知道就是說台灣豬跟美國豬當然吃起來的口感是完全不一樣那如果在未來台灣的全體就是我們國人的味蕾要做了很大的一個轉變的時候那該怎麼辦有沒有比較好的一個想法"},{"start":7736.84,"end":7751.466,"text":"應該這樣說啦其實不管是怎麼樣的談判結果就農業不立場保護我們的農業絕對是優先這是第一點第二點其實美國的米跟美國的豬現在也都有台灣來但是消費者選擇就是還是喜歡台灣的米喜歡台灣的豬所以再加上這樣講"},{"start":7752.606,"end":7768.741,"text":"現在進口的豬跟雞那個數量是非常少的你要去面對問題啊你不可以講這樣的話所以將來選擇在談判上面一定有一些是我們一定要保護的那你準備好了嗎我想這就是我們的立場一定優先保護對我們怎麼樣保護呢"},{"start":7771.343,"end":7796.062,"text":"在關稅談判本來就是沒有說一定全部要變零是從零開始不是全部變零在未來的談判裡頭我們的農業一定是被犧牲的絕對是被犧牲的其實他是一併一個國家來討論啊你這個半導體顯然看起來的時候他有一個人道的一個政策的一個什麼那個保護啊現在就是農業最慘啊你沒有發現到站在這裡就是你最慘了"},{"start":7797.715,"end":7821.334,"text":"妳沒有感受到嗎也謝謝委員支持啦我想其實整個行政團隊跟談判團隊都知道台灣農業很重要會盡量來爭取所以我想說我希望就是說這個農業部在兩週內就針對了川普關稅的影響的農產品還有生產的一個聚落提供給我們更多的一個詳細的一個評估還有分析的一個"},{"start":7822.034,"end":7840.858,"text":"那個資料這個資料非常的重要就是你的出口的額度還有你的占比還有你競爭的對手國這個其實都是我們必須要快速去那個彙整的不然在這一波裡頭我覺得台灣的農業也會消失掉這個是我非常擔心的好"},{"start":7842.018,"end":7870.35,"text":"那我想就是說在這裡在針對的就是說電子零件的一個組合經濟部長我在這裡就是特別在提醒你就是說其實在這個台南裡頭我們的電子零件的組合金屬還有就是化學化學製品塑膠橡膠成品這幾個在台南佔的是一個非常非常重要的一個那個產業的一個生產的一個基地所以我們需要你們更多的一個協助更多的一個幫忙"},{"start":7872.691,"end":7895.328,"text":"在這裡還特別提到了我想就是美國經濟的一個解放日就是連這個席產地川普都注意到了你看到企鵝他也不要他連企鵝這些都沒有人住的地方他也不放過所以我們不要低估了低估了就是川普這一次他要應用各種手法"},{"start":7895.848,"end":7912.273,"text":"他要美國再一次的一個偉大這個計畫其實是都讓我們必須要那個加緊來處理各種的一個那個問題 謝謝謝謝菁姐好 謝謝賴昭偉的諮詢現在我請鍾嘉斌委員諮詢李燕秀委員諮詢 對不起然後向委員會報告等到鍾嘉斌委員諮詢我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":7926.38,"end":7931.543,"text":"是我是不是可以邀請央行的楊總裁楊總裁請李委員早總裁早是一大早清晨五點多起來看到新的新聞你昨天晚上你是什麼時候知道今天早上川普調整了暫緩關稅目前調整是今天早上我才知道"},{"start":7953.294,"end":7972.348,"text":"今天早上才知道原來每天的狀況隨時都在改變這也就是長期以來我對於對美的關稅的談判 匯率的談判其實我在委員會一直不斷的提醒金管會 財政部 還有央行的地方"},{"start":7974.509,"end":7999.331,"text":"總裁今天早上川普說他早上才決定的那最主要理由暫緩關稅對等關稅的理由那CNN也提出說這個最主要背後的原因有可能是在近期美債巨幅震盪的一個結果嚇壞了財政部包括從二月初開始無論是中國大陸或日本不斷的提出要這個"},{"start":8000.492,"end":8027.57,"text":"美債到期之後要贖回這都是其中的因素之一那你認不認同你覺得這個可能性高不高也就是說CNN提出來川普暫緩關稅給予90天當然對大陸他達到125%關稅持續的延長那你覺得背後跟美債最近這段時間不斷的巨幅震盪你覺得這個理由合不合理"},{"start":8028.47,"end":8040.861,"text":"我覺得只是理由之一啦我個人判斷他不是理由之一?他不是最需要的理由?我覺得最重要的還是他的股市只有股市嗎?"},{"start":8045.665,"end":8071.212,"text":"對於全世界各國擁有美債的人如果在近期不斷的拋售美債大家都知道美債過去長期大家都認為是全世界資金的避風港它是穩定的但是在近期它變成是大怒神被很多國家到期了它可能要贖回或者是大量的拋售這個對於美國金融體系的影響非常大我想你比我都還要專業還要懂所以"},{"start":8074.093,"end":8094.761,"text":"所以我才說他會不會是主要的理由是因為CNN已經提出來了不是說CNN講的就對啦你覺得不對我只是說其中之一啊我也沒有就是說是他就是絕對就是這個啦但是有一點很重要的就是說美國呢他希望你看川普希望廢的降息"},{"start":8095.501,"end":8098.645,"text":"它希望它降息最主要的目的呢它是希望它的十年期的公債能夠降下來因為影響美國的經濟最主要的就是它長期債券的一個殖利率只是說利率下降那也要代表就是說它的債市它是穩定的對呀對呀對呀沒有錯啊沒有錯啊沒有錯啊"},{"start":8114.742,"end":8121.984,"text":"最近整個大環境的狀況包括中國大陸 包括日本他們打算要贖回其實也就是對於美國的經濟我剛剛也有引用一個數據啦我現在也提供委員參考就是說在沒有多久之前呢在還沒有這個事件之前呢美國的公債是多少"},{"start":8132.307,"end":8149.528,"text":"美國的公債十年級的公債是將近5%4.9幾後來因為就是說這些的因為就是說他大家都是避嫌嘛避嫌就會跑到股市不好避嫌之間就跑到那個債券市場所以債券市場就下跌到他的利率就下跌到4%"},{"start":8150.829,"end":8157.995,"text":"那現在呢現在跟直升利率它有一定的聯動關係總裁我直接提啦就是說從2000年開始美國的美債暴增到兩倍以上達到36.2兆美元這個數字那今年美兆對全世界到期的總共達到9.2兆其中有6.5兆美元全世界擁有美債有6.5兆在6月到期所以"},{"start":8178.713,"end":8197.279,"text":"對美國來說對於海外的債權人來說他當然是希望對他來說到期他贖回錢但對美國來說現在經濟的整整體的狀況他當然不希望馬上拿出這麼多錢來還這對他來說是一個很大的負擔嘛所以他當然希望到期的人是不是可以繼續的"},{"start":8199.504,"end":8225.223,"text":"購買他長期的債券再買個十年二十年三十年甚至是最近有傳說再買個一百年有傳出這樣的傳聞出來所以如果是這樣子的狀況的話總裁我要請問就是說你剛才也回答我們的召委就是說我們目前外匯存底總共五千七百七十五億美元那你剛提到說我們有八成是購買債券對不對"},{"start":8227.004,"end":8235.171,"text":"沒有錯那之前上個禮拜我聽到副總裁回答的是說我目前有92%92%這個數據大概他的這個數據是怎麼來的原來我們希望他的92%是錯的"},{"start":8247.642,"end":8274.922,"text":"這個數字是但是這個有一個數字在那邊我覺得他是不是我們一個奇幻的目標級就是說這個數據呢是時常因為匯率的變動的結果呢這個數據呢是會時常會變動的他是匯率變動的結果美債不過我跟委員報告我跟委員報告就是說第一個他可能是看錯了所以他講錯了第一個第二個呢我剛剛在講就是說我們的美債大概就是說我們的美債大概是八成以上"},{"start":8277.211,"end":8294.145,"text":"八成多多少那你覺得那個92%跟八成那個是一個規律變動的結果不是一個期望值上來都不是一個期望值你有沒有對於美賽我們應該持有多少期望值你覺得是一個合理的數字這個沒有所謂的期望值沒有那有沒有一個理想的數字"},{"start":8299.223,"end":8311.331,"text":"那當然啊我們會覺得就是說我們會持有這個債券持有這個債券我們都會評估的總裁你的專業評估我沒有要跟你吵架我只是問您專業的問題就是說您認為理想的美債的數字是多少你覺得是一個理想的數字我想理想的美債到目前為止我們認為我們八成以上是理想的"},{"start":8329.103,"end":8353.017,"text":"八成以上都是理想那我會不會持續增加美債的比例那所以我就說我們就要隨時要評估啊我也沒有所以我就說你說理想的水準是在哪裡八成以上都是理想的我現在跟委員報告就是說我現在目前的評估我說我八成以上是理想的理想的好那總的來講我沒有反對"},{"start":8357.159,"end":8361.524,"text":"反駁你喔 我也支持你喔那我再請問一句話就是說接下來我們會不會增加美債來當作跟美國繼續談判的籌碼之一"},{"start":8369.171,"end":8393.851,"text":"我想就是說我們只能夠這麼說如果說我們要跟他談判要說我們說美國的逆差那你必須要用公債要發行公債來融資但是我們中央銀行我們台灣是對你的公債我們是hold to maturity我們是長期持有對你的融資成本是有降低的貢獻"},{"start":8395.663,"end":8401.484,"text":"而且是你的赤字的融資呢是很穩定的 為什麼因為我們不會就說馬來拋 馬來再拋我們不會 我們hold to maturity當然 但是美國整體的經濟狀況當然也會影響我們持有美債我們到底那個變動到底結果是什麼所以它是不動的嘛那我要請問總裁一件事情就是說我們目前這兩三年今年有沒有美債到期的 有多少"},{"start":8423.85,"end":8426.352,"text":"這個我們在評估 不知道多少我待會私下我給你"},{"start":8431.847,"end":8453.042,"text":"這七年到期的有沒有數字 有沒有應該有啊應該有那這三年馬上到期總裁我都不反對因為你接下來跟美國談判他可以變成籌碼我們未來到期的或明年到期甚至後年到期的我們可以再跟美國談判說好 那我再跟你買十年 二十年 三十年這都是我們可以談的目標這個委員的這個建議是相當好的啦"},{"start":8455.043,"end":8459.764,"text":"這都是談判的工具好不好你們專業來決定但是對我們來說我就會想知道說我今年到底美債到期的數字有多少明年有多少後年有多少至少在川普這個任期裡面我們手邊握有可以有哪些工具是談判籌碼我們各部會現在都在盤整談判的籌碼這個是我現在要知道我時間剩下不多"},{"start":8483.951,"end":8485.565,"text":"我覺得委員的建議是相當好的"},{"start":8487.605,"end":8514.338,"text":"部長我沒有介意我只是想知道不是我的建議照理說你手邊應該有這些談判的工具不然你們在美台辦小組各部會到底在統整哪些東西那到底我們有沒有受到就是說其實川普都在對全世界施加壓力怎麼樣讓他經濟景氣好無論是增加關稅也好或者美債要你們多買一些也好或者債券再延長日期也好其實這都是他的籌碼我想你比我更清楚了解"},{"start":8514.778,"end":8536.303,"text":"那到底這件事情譬如說把美債延長十年二十年三十年我們從來沒有想過這件事情嗎或者美方有沒有給任何的壓力到目前為止沒有你沒有收到完全沒有沒有完全沒有想到說債券可以再跟他購買十年二十年這也是我們談判籌碼之一所以我說說委員的一個建議是很好的啦"},{"start":8536.863,"end":8565.665,"text":"好部長那我再請問你美中最後美中關稅談判的結果當然他說跟習近平是好朋友目前增加到125那也希望跟習近平談但是美中對於關稅談判的結果其實是影響全球的那你對於這件事情你的看法你覺得對台灣的影響會是什麼如果他談得好如果有共識因為台灣是中小企業我們都是全球貿易的其中的一環"},{"start":8566.565,"end":8583.355,"text":"我想關稅戰特別是在兩強的互相報復不只是說是只有兩強還有其他的包括歐盟這個對全球的經濟都不好那你覺得他們兩個邊會不會談得好有沒有機會談得好 你的預判是什麼最好是能夠談"},{"start":8595.711,"end":8603.863,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝李院長委員的質詢下一位請鍾嘉斌委員質詢鍾嘉斌委員質詢完畢 休息十分鐘"},{"start":8616.055,"end":8633.3,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進 列席的政府計劃所長 官員 會長 共和國大媒體 記者 女士 先生請來的比較多 有請楊總裁那麼請蔡局長協助那金管會請彭主委主席總裁請陳主席長陳主席長 陳副主席 陳副主席 莊部長莊部長 請會長關進莊委員好好委員好"},{"start":8645.66,"end":8673.968,"text":"等一下我們主席講抱歉齁 幾位首長好齁今天我的題目很清楚高關稅排中來建立自貿同盟台幣升值跟美債減息兩害取其輕來 我要分別請教幾位首長齁請問一下我們看到了美國的關稅清單也看到了中國堅決反制這裡面台灣也列明其中請問川普的關稅清單是目的還是手段總裁你認為"},{"start":8675.153,"end":8693.425,"text":"我覺得呢簡單講是目的還是手段是手段也是目的好很好來我們請今晚會主委彭主委你認為是手段還是目的我的看法跟總裁一樣好很好莊部長那您的看法呢我跟總裁和主委的意見一樣哇很好來那麼我們的那個主席長"},{"start":8696.058,"end":8712.384,"text":"我也是覺得是一樣的啦好那總裁再請你回來大家都聽你的OK來我看齁我認為啊下一頁對中國的目的是圍堵但是對其他國家是要求你跟我談判我們看得很清楚川普說你中國對我不公平貿易說要對你加徵關稅"},{"start":8714.125,"end":8734.726,"text":"但是他對其他的國家說什麼?說我對你加徵關稅,但是你要對等關稅的話,我們就可以談,是不是這樣子?順序不一樣,結果中國很生氣,馬上去提高到84,結果他好,我就給你提高到125,結果現在很多國家已經表示我要跟你零關稅了,是不是這樣?那這樣結果會變成什麼呢?"},{"start":8737.949,"end":8763.658,"text":"可是當越南提出零關稅的時候美國說不是喔你的請交跟補貼貼補這個非關稅欺騙我要注意喔所以顯然的美國對有案零關稅是要建立一個零關稅的自由貿易同盟但是也要嚴防大家去跟中國要好所以要圍堵中國往下看那既然美國川普政府對中國的目的是圍堵那對其他國家要求談判的目的有哪些"},{"start":8764.881,"end":8793.134,"text":"總裁我覺得啦我覺得啦就是說我那個還是我來跟你解釋一下好來這樣審視喔川普他說兩個任務要減少赤字一個要增加就業其中赤字有一個是貿易逆差一個是財政支出這當中的貿易逆差部分中國的不公平貿易是主要原因所以他加徵關稅同時籌組了一個自由貿易同盟彼此之間零關稅因此呢在美國市場上"},{"start":8793.894,"end":8813.717,"text":"中國商品沒有競爭力了出去了讓出來的位置讓其他零關稅同盟進來遞補而且這些零關稅同盟也對美國開放了市場美國想要透過這方式解決貿易逆差但是他一方面要增加就業要投資減稅要改善他中西部的弱勢經濟選民還有一個很重要的財政支出他要減少負債"},{"start":8814.378,"end":8824.32,"text":"要怎麼解決美國公債的問題總裁你同不同意這是川普我覺得我非常佩服委員你的整個邏輯是謝謝你的佩服我繼續讓你佩服來往下看"},{"start":8826.021,"end":8845.481,"text":"我們目前呢 談判小組他有幾個任務第一個 談判關稅 這是減輕逆差貨到對美採購 也是縮減美國逆差貨到對美投資 這是改善他的就業排除非關稅障礙 這些改善逆差解決西產業問題 要防堵中國但是有沒有注意到這個小組有一個任務 寫在這裡"},{"start":8846.622,"end":8863.217,"text":"台灣大部分的外匯準備是購買美國公債也可納入作為關稅下降的有利條件總裁你認不認同這個報導我們的談判小組有這樣的一個籌碼我覺得也是也是喔很好很坦白那因為我這就不再對數了齁"},{"start":8864.218,"end":8890.788,"text":"目前呢因為你說本來說92%你的副總算是92%現在說82%所以我合理估計我們的外匯存益目前是5780億大概呢有推估4800億是由美債來持有好我們來看一下剛剛葉委員有提到欸美國面臨債務到期欸他有9兆36兆的有9兆今年要到期相當於什麼聯邦總收入的兩倍其中在6月到期的呢有6.5兆我們看一下川普怎麼做"},{"start":8892.128,"end":8896.831,"text":"他要減少負債要政府讓他瘦身找了馬斯克然後呢他有可能加稅嗎很困難現在關稅都零啦"},{"start":8900.1,"end":8924.691,"text":"要還債沒有錢還所以只剩什麼降低債息總裁你同不同意如果你是今天你是美國的財政部長你是美國的財政部長你認為減輕負債是不是這個是很重要的一個目標是啊是喔很好那往下看那請問總裁如果對美談判川普政府要求一台幣對美元升值跟B中央銀行持有部分美債減息你覺得哪一個對台灣的經濟衝擊比較大"},{"start":8927.526,"end":8952.912,"text":"我覺得這個哪一個衝擊比較大 二則一我覺得這兩個都不是很好都不是很好 我知道當然不好這才問你 兩害相權取其輕不是 我的意思就是說台幣對美元升值我先問你 哪一個對台灣影響比較大我都一直覺得台幣 兩個都不好台幣是由市場來決定的"},{"start":8955.27,"end":8975.401,"text":"好了,我就直接幫你講了,其實你兩個都不要了,但是被迫選的話,來看看你要選哪一個,我們來看一下下一頁,米倫,這是美國白宮經濟貿易顧問委員會的主席米倫,現在米倫在去年的11月他出了一個用戶指南,重組全國貿易體系,他講到什麼,講到說關稅本身不是目的是手段,"},{"start":8976.061,"end":8999.954,"text":"解答了是手段不是目的今天的報紙也寫到了根據米倫的用戶指南他說對等關稅有五種方式來協助ABCDE很清楚關稅不要報復打開市場就是解決逆差然後提高國防出資增加採購投資美國增加就業直接捐款給美國財政部這是有點戲謔的說法簡單講就是檢討美國財政部的什麼美債的負擔來往下看"},{"start":9006.018,"end":9019.865,"text":"美國的白宮經濟顧問委員會主席米倫的攝氧什麼他說接下來美國要有盟友來美債的部分手中的美債你們都有拿一部分來用超長期譬如說50到100年超低利譬如說2%來跟我買"},{"start":9022.472,"end":9050.923,"text":"你們快到期的美債換買這個好不好可是這種影響會影響到我們外匯存備裡面的流動性這樣的美債沒有流動性等於是挖個坑把它買起來第二個呢也會影響我們匯率風險的管理所以米倫不是不知道所以他提出一個方案快速換回美元現金的官方渠道他說如果你有一千億兩千億的美債換成了一百年五十年那你短期效率怎麼辦我讓你短期回購機制report"},{"start":9051.806,"end":9074.903,"text":"或者他說用一個類似SWAP SPOT的方式去互換協議總裁你認為這樣的米倫的建議有沒有可能當你要考慮被要求要買超長期低利的美債的時候你覺得這兩個有沒有幫助我們各種這樣我覺得米倫的這個建議是不合乎市場的運作"},{"start":9075.848,"end":9104.38,"text":"而且我覺得美國的公債它的殖利率是它美國金融市場的一個穩定的力量這個不是在金融上買的喔這個是恰特定客戶這是恰特定客戶對嘛所以也就是說如果說是這樣子的話你不要就是說是特定客戶就其他一般的投資人也會怕"},{"start":9105.185,"end":9107.807,"text":"今天如果說這個米倫說台灣來的談判小組我們現在談一下我這個建議你採論看看因為這隱含有什麼優勢當這兩個機制放進去的時候他形同是美國跟這些國家形成了一個沒有包括中國的準金融同盟啊"},{"start":9124.336,"end":9136.664,"text":"大家把美元的儲備跟美國綁在一起我跟委員報告我跟委員報告美國如果說就我的猜想我先來觀察美國是第一個他才會就是說就這個關稅的問題來解決這個問題"},{"start":9140.786,"end":9154.955,"text":"那講到這個的時候呢 我還是覺得顏值過早 都是顏值過早連講都不要講 顏值過早 我同意顏值過早因為現在還沒有到亮底牌的時候 我也不是亂講我們就不要講了 因為顏值過早就不要講了因為顏值還是亮底牌 但是我們來看一下剛剛有個人問你啊 合理的外匯儲備是多少同樣的 前副總裁提到說 總裁說到什麼"},{"start":9165.362,"end":9190.813,"text":"他說大概維持四千到四千五百美元這樣就很安全了你同意嗎?不你不同意?沒關係我知道你不同意就好總裁不見得意料一致往下看但是人家有當過總裁的人米倫方案的試算假如說台灣我們的外匯儲備是這麼多我們手上假設有四千八百億的美債其中我到期之後我拿一千億他說你有四千億就可以很安全了"},{"start":9191.974,"end":9206.652,"text":"到期之後我拿1000億來購買一個超低利的美債長期的結果呢美債利率現在4%假設協議的利率是2%結果我們在這50年當中或100年當中我們每年會損失這麼多有沒有很嚴重"},{"start":9208.328,"end":9215.035,"text":"我覺得很嚴重我想這個都是假設問題所以我就說這個假設的問題的時候呢很難回答假如說我們接受了這個提議我們的600億的利損小於目前現在的特別預算的880億"},{"start":9228.227,"end":9253.116,"text":"我們了解如果台灣可以換得美國相互零關稅我們有很多的好處也可以避免很多的損失我們880億要用來對付這個因為出口沒有辦法出口高關稅的報復之後我們要來紓困的跟我們剛剛談一個好的條件我們只是少損失了只是損失了600億的利損而且還是帳面上的好我們來看一下下一個所以我們來看一下"},{"start":9254.056,"end":9278.822,"text":"超長期低利的美債在米倫的方案當中如果現在以美國來講30年的國債他只要掉1%他的帳面30年的帳面就進賺20%對台灣來講當我跟美國談的那個交易我有短期的美元的流動性需求的時候他給我一個附帶美國央行免費的買權保證避開短期的利率風險你認為如果是這樣的交易台美有沒有雙贏"},{"start":9280.001,"end":9290.671,"text":"我跟委員報告我總覺得米倫的這種推論是不確實際的第二點如果說這個是真正實施的時候我個人判斷美國先發生金融危機然後造成整個全球的金融危機我了解我總裁的判斷"},{"start":9305.343,"end":9328.018,"text":"很可惜的自從剛剛那個之後就沒有得到你的肯定了後面你都否定最後我一個結論來請央行分別就台幣兌美元升值以及中央銀行持有部分美債降息分別提出經濟衝擊影響一個月內提出說明報告可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝眾教兵委員的質詢我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":9951.297,"end":9955.401,"text":"好 這位報告為我們繼續開會請大家幫忙維持會場的次序如果需要講話 請到室外講話我們在裡面開會好 下一位請李坤崇委員質詢 請"},{"start":9979.185,"end":9981.628,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們請這一個央行 央總裁央總裁請"},{"start":10001.355,"end":10028.351,"text":"李委員早部長好 辛苦了我還記得我們在3月27號的時候還有針對所謂的川普政府對等關稅策略與我國被列入骯髒15國名單有來做一個專案報告結果發現不是骯髒15國一公佈的時候發現全世界都有不過我看了一下當時候央行的報告"},{"start":10030.352,"end":10052.298,"text":"其實你們那時候說到說台灣跟美國的關稅的差距啦這個如果按照這一個貿易加權平均的關稅來計算的話台灣是1.7%美國是2.2%其實台灣還低於美國0.5個百分點那如果按照簡單平均的關稅來算一算台灣呢是6.5那高於美國的這個3.2%多了3.3%"},{"start":10056.939,"end":10080.586,"text":"就是說從當時候三月底的這一個報告來看的話總裁有想到說最後川普的算法是這樣子的嗎沒有因為我認為我當時我們的推論是說第一個我對等你講對等關稅因為對等我們加權平均都比你低當然雖然就是說簡單平均我們比他高沒有錯而且主要的就是來農產品"},{"start":10082.306,"end":10106.015,"text":"但是也就是3.3而已這是第一點第二點我們也認為就是說事實上台灣最近幾年對你的粗糙這些的產品都是你最需要的而且對你很有貢獻的對你的經濟發展很有貢獻所以那時候你是說其實是產業的互補對 是互補不是不公平的貿易我們的這些產品包括SERVER這些AI SERVER這些對它的生產力的提升"},{"start":10110.462,"end":10129.743,"text":"還有就是對他國防安全航太領域這些都有貢獻的所以我們才會覺得就是說應該不至於對我們台灣的這個對等關稅會扣那麼高所以那時候一個最壞的這個預想的一個策略會被課到多少那時候"},{"start":10130.023,"end":10146.495,"text":"那時候他也有提到基本是10%那時候頂多我們也是想大概是10%是10%那你現在就是說他是用那個公式是非常不合理的就是說用第一個你對他的逆差第二個除上你對他的一個出口所以這個方案是你們從來沒有想過的沒有想到的"},{"start":10155.362,"end":10180.478,"text":"那現在又從32%又降到10%了又回到這個基礎關稅來了那總裁想說這中間的轉折是怎麼樣這美國自己也受不了了嗎我也覺得是這樣子因為剛剛我也在講就是說第一個他也沒有想到就是說他的這個對等關稅一公佈了之後呢事實上最先反映的是他本國的"},{"start":10181.198,"end":10195.271,"text":"他的股市整個股市你看跌的那麼多那其他的國家的股市呢也就隨著多跌所以呢他這而且連續的他如果說不做這樣的一個踩煞車的時候呢就是說有這三個月的一個緩衝期的話那這樣的話呢股市下去的話是會崩盤的所以總裁認為說川普的轉折是跟自己國內的這一個股市"},{"start":10207.842,"end":10227.812,"text":"還有剛剛也有委員談到就是說他的公債的利率可以這樣彈升上來他也會有一點怕為什麼呢美國財政部特別是美國財政部他都希望他的長期的公債的殖利率能夠下來那沒有想到就是說他下來到3.9幾的時候最近又爬到4.33所以他也緊張了"},{"start":10231.334,"end":10233.637,"text":"所以我是覺得4.33對美國財政部的財政負擔是蠻大的所以我覺得這就是一個轉折點無論如何也爭取到三個月的時間了那三個月的時間總裁有什麼樣的建議嗎"},{"start":10246.271,"end":10256.78,"text":"所以我總覺得我剛剛也是在講就是說三個月的時間當然大家就整個市場就說鬆了一口氣鬆了一口氣你看看美國的股市都是每個都上漲"},{"start":10263.386,"end":10279.06,"text":"包含台股也都上漲了他的reaction就是利多嘛包括我相信亞洲的大概也是台股前面也漲了不過呢我剛剛也在講就是說事實上呢因為三個月只是這個時間而已三個月時間如果說大家要來談判的話三個月是足夠長"},{"start":10282.603,"end":10306.742,"text":"可以讓他美國跟這些的國家來談就台灣來講總裁怎麼建議也是很好啊但是呢有什麼優先來做但是問題就是說這個三個月也是很長的三個月很長的話整個的金融市場還是因為他的uncertainty他的不確定性還是依然存在因為不曉得他的 outcome 是什麼"},{"start":10308.123,"end":10327.659,"text":"所以也就是說在這段期間股市還有包括其他匯市、債市也都是一樣的它還是會上上下下上上下下而且波動度也應該從上一次的波動非常大的之後它可能會減少波動但是它的波動度還是會大的"},{"start":10329.54,"end":10342.115,"text":"好 那我請教一下齁那這樣子對於台灣的經濟的成長率會不會有影響本來預估是大概是3.14嘛那現在就是說會受到影響有可能最差會到1.4%那好一點的話2.6%那總裁這邊的想法咧"},{"start":10345.438,"end":10359.743,"text":"我覺得所以也就是說在這一次的評估裡面我們就沒有把我們的評估把它揭露出來為什麼因為我們總覺得這是一個uncertainty這是一個非常但卻總是有影響"},{"start":10360.303,"end":10362.967,"text":"所以我們才扣的這些投資因因為到目前為止IMF跟那個BIS還有就是ADB這些OECD都還沒有來估測說對整個全球經濟的影響是怎麼樣對個別國家的影響是怎麼樣到目前他們還沒有"},{"start":10380.007,"end":10405.285,"text":"但是呢投資銀行他就有一些的評估所以我們就引用了這個評估但是呢我們有一個但書我們說這都是參考參考因為到目前為止呢整個的情勢都還沒有非常的明朗所以我們現在做這樣的一個評估的時候有些時候呢會嚇到自己那如果就是說最後如果是10%的關稅好了那總裁認為說寶山有可能嗎"},{"start":10406.569,"end":10431.797,"text":"這個我們必須要再做評估我也沒辦法說在這裡就馬上跟委員說就可以保持這個3%的經濟成長力到目前為止我覺得我們必須要總裁認為不確定性太高了對對對那請教一下這個關稅對等關稅它裡面除了貿易逆差之外它有提到說這個所謂的匯率的操縱"},{"start":10434.178,"end":10451.766,"text":"匯率的操縱我跟委員報告一下匯率的操縱這個我看指標上面其實是有達到他的這一個這個就是說匯率的這個問題基本上他當然他有說這個可能會涉及到他的逆差跟匯率有一些的關聯對啊有出超嘛"},{"start":10452.646,"end":10476.258,"text":"但是我認為事實上匯率的這個部分是美國財政部的主權所以我上一次的報告裡面我也提到就是說美國財政部在4月是因為那時候一般來講他都會在4月中會提出他的匯率報告那他的匯率報告他就會提出他的看法"},{"start":10477.699,"end":10495.812,"text":"他的看法所以呢我現在呢要跟委員報告的就是說事實上呢關稅關稅的這個議題呢是美國政府美國的總統有這個緊急的緊急的那個發布命令的那個權限但是呢財政部的這個會議報告他的會議報告我跟委員報告他的會議報告是國會通過的"},{"start":10500.715,"end":10504.539,"text":"它的匯率報告是國會通過的它是1988年綜合貿易及競爭力法案還有2015年貿易變節化及貿易執行法案這個都是國會通過的"},{"start":10515.629,"end":10538.391,"text":"那它國會通過的它有一定的標準總裁我是說如果按照這一個美國財政部的標準來講的話其實我們有兩個指標包含這一個對美國貿易的粗糙經常這樣的順差其實都有達到那我是說這方面的話會不會被美國我們匯率沒有啊我們匯率我們還是賣啊我們還是在賣啊它的第三個標準是說你要單邊的買"},{"start":10540.453,"end":10561.194,"text":"我們沒有啊我們反而是在賣啊所以總裁認為說不會因為這樣子被美國如果說根據美國國會所通過的這個法案的三個標準按照道理我們是不會列在裡面的所以總裁認為說不會就對了我們是覺得是不會的但是呢現在就是說態度他"},{"start":10562.095,"end":10584.598,"text":"現在就是說財政部長的態度還有就川普總統的態度因為這個匯率報告畢竟還是要通過川普總統的看過看起來美國財政部長是對這個關係是踩煞車的啦我想就是說因為這個標準是國會通過的所以國會通過的話你不能就是說是"},{"start":10585.499,"end":10593.79,"text":"是對國會的這三個標準做某些的扭曲這個是跟他的關稅是不大一樣的總裁請回最後一點時間我請財政部莊部長"},{"start":10602.512,"end":10607.735,"text":"關於對等關稅 它裡面有提到台灣裡面有一些非關稅的障礙經貿談判辦公室有指出有七項非關稅的障礙 其中跟財政部有相關的要怎麼去處理"},{"start":10623.789,"end":10630.512,"text":"是,對於非關稅障礙這個部分經貿辦公室都逐一在談對,那我說跟財政部那在財政部那個部分當然也有提到所謂的違規轉運就是息產地的部分那那個部分我們海關跟我們的經濟部其實在從107年中美貿易戰以後已經建立起一個非常好的一個"},{"start":10644.137,"end":10670.589,"text":"機制來做事前的預防事中的管理及事後的嚴懲這個部分那我是說在對等關稅成立之後有沒有新的措施來做法因為你要因應新的情勢啊我們又在希望能夠再精進那海關這邊已經檢討以後就更精進的一些作為署長有要做補充的嗎那個那個關務署署長可以再說明那個精進的措施報告委員我簡短報告一下我們已經立即成立了一個強力查核小組在各關"},{"start":10671.249,"end":10686.179,"text":"都要組這個強力者查核小組違規轉運那由官務長或副官務長要親自帶隊那頻率會非常高查核的頻率會非常高另外我們會建立一個專一的風險管理系統專門針對違規轉運來做精準的一個打擊因為洗產業這個是很嚴重啦為什麼像越南這些國家"},{"start":10695.104,"end":10703.951,"text":"開始被課那麼多關稅 就是它涉及席產地啦所以這方面我要盡量避免 好不好好 謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝李酷成委員質詢 下一位請陳玉珍委員質詢"},{"start":10713.351,"end":10725.2,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請這個央行然後央行總裁請央行金管會財政部金管會彭主委財政部專部長經濟部也有經濟部副次長好"},{"start":10729.073,"end":10751.469,"text":"各位我們政府重要的這個首長這個今天幸好早上這個訊息至少我們還要多了這個90天可以應對那我記得我們之前這個兩個禮拜前我們賴昭偉排這個案子的時候我記得剛剛那個執行局貢獻委員還說哪有被列入什麼骯髒十五國啊這個議題是假議題啊那我記得那時候那時候還訓了我們"},{"start":10753.07,"end":10768.561,"text":"招委一頓說好像排這個很不應該覺得我看到我們招委事實上有賢見之明那現在後來這個發生這個32%這件事情但是我在上禮拜看到我們在討論這個議題的時候我們各個部會的報告包括那個談判辦公室的報告事實上都有一點不痛不癢"},{"start":10770.242,"end":10788.377,"text":"他這個32%的這個關稅核戰是讓衝擊全球雖然說他現在暫緩90天現在還是先用10%但是90天後我們一樣要面對嘛所以我們現在要趕快想出辦法還有可能的這個的問題然後大家看一下當初可能被列入骯髒15國3015的時候那時候我們的預判財政部說這個會做好運營實際衝擊預算預期有限這是當初財政部上上禮拜的說法這個這個"},{"start":10796.624,"end":10825.341,"text":"朱美麗這一位是我們央行副總裁她說對等關稅影響台灣有限有限 物價穩定OK 好金管會也說短期波動難免但是我們有上次公司有應應風險的韌性結果沒想到你看一發布32%以後連跌了三到四天好幾千點那當然今天又回來但是我的意思說當初各個部會財政部 金管會 央行那時候你們是真的覺得"},{"start":10826.081,"end":10832.208,"text":"如果說因為他現在又給90天如果沒有你們現在還是覺得當初回到當初那時候是不是實質影響衝擊有限32%會有限嗎"},{"start":10834.674,"end":10859.019,"text":"總裁你所謂的三十二八就是原來他宣布現在是暫緩了不是說沒有就三十二八這個對等關稅你們當初在這之前你們預判都是影響有限我們那時候你們是不是全是預判失準我想就是說這個判斷事實上我總覺得連美國他本身第一個連川普總統他也沒有想到就是說他的這個措施下去會導致"},{"start":10860.379,"end":10869.002,"text":"他的這個措施呢就是說大家都沒有想到我的意思是說那我們這些部位首長不管是央行還有農委會幾乎全球的主管機關都沒有想到"},{"start":10880.845,"end":10908.044,"text":"但是我們也是不是太過大意因為上個禮拜為什麼民進黨委還說這個根本不重要你如果說我們都會大意的話川普在實施之前他都這麼說華爾街不會有問題但是呢隔天一實施的時候華爾街大跌而且連續跌了好幾天我的意思是要跟大家提醒啦這已經發生了幸好今天有這個時間我也跟委員報告"},{"start":10910.766,"end":10920.233,"text":"事實上連廢的他也沒有想到現在就說他這個不合理的公式大家都認為是不合理嘛應該是都認為這個不合理他這種什麼算法我們根本是因為互補事實上我們的關稅財政部也在這裡我們跟他的關稅我們是6.5他們是3.3差距才3%而已沒有事實上所謂的什麼64%對不對這個是要讓百姓知道沒錯吧財政部關稅你們在那個的"},{"start":10938.243,"end":10961.568,"text":"是的委員也就是說在上一次的專案報告裡面財政部的報告是針對有關我們跟美國的相關的一些關稅的關稅的稅率的一個比較以及還有進出口數據的分析但是我們並沒有說影響有限我們裡面就是說我們會密切的關注這個部分所以你們有注意那沒關係現在既然有90天我很高興有這個90天"},{"start":10965.589,"end":10973.494,"text":"有這個九天我們現在還是要往後看看怎麼樣幫助我們的產業實際解決問題才是重點那現在九十天後要怎麼樣來解決這個危機我們來看一下他的要求是什麼經濟部、農業部有沒有做好相關的評估還有我們現在可以做什麼我想請問財政部有什麼想法"},{"start":10987.603,"end":11003.155,"text":"比如說對於零關稅總統說零關稅吧那比如說如果真的零關稅那汽車這個部分是不是從零關稅開始談起啊跟委員報告我想總統已經提過就是我們會有組成一個所謂的談判的一個小組會由政府院長領軍"},{"start":11004.349,"end":11031.245,"text":"那在談判小組都一直在模擬如果談判官要達成他的目的嘛他有美國汽車產業嘛對 各種方案那對於就是說你們有沒有做影響評估對國內的產業的影響會有產業主管你們做了評估了沒有我們在這裡要求汽車這個降稅已經要求很久了也可以幫助國人的那降稅的部分會對產業的一個影響的部分你們做了評估了沒有是由經濟部跟經濟部來做評估所以這經濟部是喔 汽車產業的影響農業部也上來一下"},{"start":11033.807,"end":11051.042,"text":"還有農業部的部份 到時候如果零關稅 農業部的杜次長來經濟部你先回答就是說如果汽車零關稅 到時候適用WPS 全部一體適用對汽車產業的影響有沒有做過 你們可不可能這樣做包委 我們當然會為國內的汽車產業爭取最大的權利這個零關稅確實對國內的產業是有一些衝擊的"},{"start":11061.09,"end":11083.079,"text":"當然我們會在對美談判的時候爭取最大的總統說要從零關稅談起所以有可能所以我們還是希望能夠爭取最大的不可能美國不會接受汽車產業是他重要產業我想請問農業部到時候零關稅農民受到農業都受到很大衝擊你知道吧"},{"start":11084.099,"end":11098.165,"text":"那你們可以接受嗎從零開始談但不代表全部都要是零那如果美國就這樣要求你們會接受嗎我想對我們來講重要的產品一定要保護著所以你們不會接受那總統要零關稅啊如果美國就這樣要求咧"},{"start":11099.825,"end":11118.411,"text":"從靈觀會議開始談不代表全部都要變成如果美國就這樣要求咧不然30天後要給你32%90天後要給你32%我們一定會拒以利爭因為拒以利爭沒有他就是要32%不然就是0重要的農產品還是要還是有他所以你們也不支持嘛那你們都不支持在總統來央行那請問這個大家很多財經專家說這就是美債嘛你剛剛也提到了嘛"},{"start":11120.292,"end":11147.802,"text":"您覺得說你會不會同意放手讓現在幣已經升值你會不會同意放手升值或者同意讓持有美債從一年短期債變成長期債甚至無期債我跟委員報告就是說中央銀行從來沒有就是說新台幣不能升值或是說新台幣不能貶值就是說我們央行實際上沒有在控制匯率沒有我們總覺得匯率是由市場來決定它要升值就要讓它升值它要貶值的時候"},{"start":11148.302,"end":11150.644,"text":"讓新台幣的匯率波動幅度不要太大一天跌2000多點 一天升1000多點這個外資進出不會波動太大"},{"start":11169.398,"end":11188.732,"text":"還是會 就說現在現在的中央銀行的匯率呢他現在的波動弧度是比以前還大的但是你沒有回去控制啦因為這等於是非關稅的壁壘所以你那個資金的匯出進來出去呢有些時候都是很短時間都是很具有的"},{"start":11189.312,"end":11209.776,"text":"那你一定要讓這個匯率能夠穩定這樣才會好所以你不控制然後他還可以穩定喔不不不沒關係啊梁總裁我不為難您啦這個為國家好這個問題我不會往下問啦這個我不為難您我來建議我來具體建議可以做的事情啦我來跟各位具體建議啦因為我覺得我們大家共赴國難都要站在一起為國家做事啦我建議幾點請各位聽一下第一個"},{"start":11213.437,"end":11229.686,"text":"我覺得這一次的關稅衝擊跟新冠疫情一樣都是很大的衝擊甚至是一個經濟海嘯我覺得我們政府單位應該第一個就比照新冠疫情期間是成立一個指揮中心然後以前新冠疫情是每天宣布新的情形我們這次要三天開一支記者會"},{"start":11231.067,"end":11248.081,"text":"各個部會對產業衝擊每天有新的結果會怎麼樣做出一個向老百姓報告那個讓全民安心這個中央應變要嘛要三天要嘛至少一週要開一次記者會尤其現在還有九十天時間這個是第一點就是談判進度要安定民心這個很重要第二個我跟財政部建議這個行政效率部長"},{"start":11250.743,"end":11276.766,"text":"行政效率的這個提高 事實上就降低那個成本你這個關稅通關快的話 就會降低那個成本那這個對廠商就會有幫助那我知道現在關公署人手非常的不足所以你們要趕快趁這個機會跟人事總局要求增加人手因為當通關迅速的時候 行政成本降低嘛時間就是金錢嘛 你們人手不足我知道吧所以這個部分你們要趕快增加人手 增加行政效率 降低成本"},{"start":11277.406,"end":11298.923,"text":"那第三個也是財政部這個比照疫情期間就是說可以按照關務署曾經出口多少這個廠商的歷史數據那評估不管是農業部或不是農業部經濟部這邊評估這些廠商到底因為這樣如果實施32%會有多大的衝擊然後以前在疫情期間衛福部曾經做過一個方法叫做衛八補八就是說診所如果沒有達到"},{"start":11299.743,"end":11322.942,"text":"當時的百分之八十你就補達到百分之八十那我們一樣可以用這個財政手段財稅的手段如果沒有達到他的損失多少我們可以把這個額度留下來以後當他如果有賺錢可以扣抵的這個稅額用財政手段財稅的手段來幫助我們的這個產業讓他們不至於很快的倒閉那第四點因為今天勞動沒有來就是說勞動部的部分也可以按照"},{"start":11323.402,"end":11347.908,"text":"之前有多少 禁用多少勞工那多少勞工按照他的勞健保投保那個人數也許政府補助一定的預算然後讓穩定就業那比如說像疫情期間也是啊針對某一些產業補助勞工比如每個月一萬塊啊五千塊讓勞工的市場可以穩定這個不會讓民眾造成恐慌那儘管會當然這個金融市場他是比較自由的但是當如果勞工就業穩定當如果我們的這個產業"},{"start":11349.048,"end":11377.37,"text":"比較穩定用財稅手段的時候這個時候我想這個對市場的衝擊就不會那麼大就不會那麼大相對的就會造成金融市場的這個穩定那但是金融會員要注意一點我覺得我們現在政府有一些或者是說有一些人或者說我們有一些執政黨的有一些民意代表他會認為說好像中國大陸刻著比較高的關稅是比較好像有點幸災樂禍的感覺但這事實上也不是只有影響到中國大陸因為我們很多台商是在大陸"},{"start":11378.231,"end":11403.443,"text":"是有設廠的事實上他們的營業很多是算到我們的上市櫃的營業額裡頭事實上對我們很多上市櫃公司在全球都有佈局越南 泰國 中國大陸都有也是影響他們的產值對我們的金融市場也是有影響的所以政府不要因為說是大陸關稅很高然後我們就幸災樂禍"},{"start":11404.864,"end":11425.658,"text":"好像是跟我們無關 實際上我們全世界台商都會受到影響我們一定盡量來協助我們的上市貴公司這個很多產業的衝擊 現在幸好有90天我期許大家 我想我們現在是共赴國難我也不會苛責你們 但是我們提出一些建議大家趕快去做 趕快想辦法具體可行的方法 真正幫助百姓 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝陳立正委員的資訊下一位請楊瓊英委員資訊請"},{"start":11442.85,"end":11444.434,"text":"主席 本席想邀請楊航來 楊總推請"},{"start":11453.184,"end":11470.676,"text":"總裁好 川普掀起的關稅風暴影響了全球的金融市場對此您也在4月7號提出四大穩定的機制比如說建立場內外的監理機制 運用大額結匯及時通報"},{"start":11474.139,"end":11485.593,"text":"來確實掌控資金的進駐等等這四大的方案所以本席要請教剛剛本席聽到您在答詢當中你說這個匯率它市場機制要漲就讓它漲"},{"start":11488.756,"end":11514.497,"text":"這一句話是不是有但書啊如果像這麼大的一個風暴這個幾天跌了4000多點這樣子央行的作用是什麼是不是應當要維持穩定我們的匯率啊對啊當然啊當然還好我剛剛也是在強調這一點啊那你說他要漲就讓他漲啊不是不是你要說明清楚本席願意讓你說明清楚是的就是說"},{"start":11515.197,"end":11532.831,"text":"中央銀行的職責就是說穩定匯率但是在某種情況之下它要反映基本面導致新台幣是升值的時候我們不能去阻止它升值如果說它的貶值是因為金融市場的大幅的波動中央銀行也不會讓它貶的太多"},{"start":11539.116,"end":11560.415,"text":"因為我們要穩定它 也是要讓它穩定為基礎對對對 沒有錯 我的說法是跟委員的說法是一樣的一樣的 還好 還好那所以本鄉請教總裁 現在外資也持續在撤在這樣的情況之下 我們除了您宣布的這四大機制之外還有沒有其他 因為現在它突然間32%來一個10%"},{"start":11563.277,"end":11584.064,"text":"90天這個90天就是大家搶先要去談判我們掛了號也有我們的國防會主委說我們是優先的也有其他的論述所以不管怎麼樣千變萬化除了這四大機制之外你還有其他的備案"},{"start":11585.505,"end":11598.436,"text":"我想是這樣第一個就是說我們的我們有足夠的外存體來維持市場的秩序這是第一個第二個我們有足夠還有這個是次大的機制對不對那這樣的話就是說"},{"start":11600.057,"end":11607.924,"text":"因為有些時候我舉一個很簡單的例子就是說我們如果說外資一直出去假設然後我們就拋匯拋匯我們就賣美元賣美元的時候我們就收進來新台幣那收進來新台幣的時候國內的新台幣的市場它會緊縮"},{"start":11619.673,"end":11634.629,"text":"他會緊縮那這樣緊縮的時候整個金融市場還是會不穩定所以你整個金融市場還不穩定的說我們的公開市場操作我們還是可以把新台幣的資金再把它釋放出去這個是一個很簡單的例子"},{"start":11635.109,"end":11658.975,"text":"就是說中央銀行有足夠的能力來維持外匯市場中央銀行有這個足夠的能力來維持我們的本幣跟外幣的流動性好這也是人民希望要聽到的這一個足夠跟這一個準備跟這一個應對我們好好的來維持謝謝繼續本席要請教主計總署主計總署"},{"start":11665.333,"end":11665.353,"text":"來 請回"},{"start":11670.407,"end":11689.724,"text":"主席講我們在2月26號的時候我們發布了我們的經濟成長是3.14%那到現在短短的這一兩個禮拜讓我們的產業讓我們各方面大家都繃緊了神經非常的緊張所以這個數據是可能是還沒有納入現在這一兩個禮拜的千變萬化"},{"start":11696.029,"end":11717.728,"text":"在這樣的一個情況之下不管是我們台幣不斷的重挫或者是新台幣股票不斷的重挫新台幣的貶值呈現資金的外流 股匯市的雙重壓力在這樣的也恐怕影響到整個企業的一個投資所以在全球貿易成長放緩"},{"start":11718.829,"end":11744.85,"text":"而且我們的地緣政治風險又升高在這樣情況之下呢 潛在的風險持續在增加因為我們是以出口導向所以主席我們現在所用的經濟預測模式那麼對於這樣的狀態您二月份所宣布的是不是必須要重新的來修正來反映出保守市場的現象請做說明"},{"start":11745.55,"end":11767.445,"text":"我們大概五月中旬的時候下旬我們會再做一個預測的一個預估然後這個部分也會到時候會請提供給大家來做一個參考就是五月份會重新再來宣布那也納入近期比如說我們的股會是波動的重大影響以及談判的預定過程那麼內容"},{"start":11768.726,"end":11794.299,"text":"等方面都把它納入在五月份的時候再宣布這樣就對了因為本席認為您的預測會直接影響到整個政府的施政方向而且會影響到你預算的編列你產業界到底談判之後會怎麼樣那這個都是不可測的所以本席就是建議我們必須要把這些因素納進來作為一個比較正確"},{"start":11795.659,"end":11808.549,"text":"貼近情境的一個宣布讓大家有所依歸那這個時間點就在五月份是 五月中下旬五月下旬的時候好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝楊春英委員資訊下一位請黃珊珊委員資訊"},{"start":11821.623,"end":11832.289,"text":"謝謝主席我請楊總裁還有稍等一下我們按慣例11點50可以發鞭湯各位如果需要現場用就可以用黃委主委金管會黃主委好 委員好兩位好我想這幾天大家不是只有三溫暖應該是說快要得心臟病從川普幾天來的動作像是第一"},{"start":11852.403,"end":11870.109,"text":"沒有預期也沒有警告就直接殺殺完之後再告訴你說你還有90天可以活現在的狀況就是我們在這90天之內有沒有什麼樣的想法還有我們到底跟他的溝通管道在哪裡央行跟金管會平常跟美國沒有任何管道嗎"},{"start":11871.418,"end":11900.041,"text":"我們我跟委員報告我們基本上就是說我們每年每年都會國際組織國際的會議我們都會跟美國財政部來答案就是我們現在就看到他對全世界沒有人信念所以不能怪你們但是我們看到賴總統投書講了台灣的立場那美國我們昨天看到下出一聲冷汗的是他的經濟顧問在美國大放厥詞說美國只有五個方法第一個"},{"start":11900.982,"end":11918.71,"text":"接受美國關稅不能報復第二個打開市場停止不公平的交易第三個要提高國防支出跟軍購第四個投資美國第五個直接捐錢給美國財政部請問這五個選項總裁你的看法呢"},{"start":11919.881,"end":11947.526,"text":"我覺得第一個就是說他說不能報復那當然就是說他現在也已經講了就是說很多國家都願意跟他去做談判反正就是這五個方法我們台灣會選哪幾個方法第一個我們已經不報復了嘛所以我們接受了第二個第三個第四個都是可以啦不過呢我總覺得就是說直接直接關錢給這個美國財政部這個我總覺得好像是不可能做不到"},{"start":11948.807,"end":11962.064,"text":"就說是好像覺得怪怪的啦那不是覺得怪怪的啦是我們現在給人家政府的只有一種人叫做我們的友邦比我們弱的我們才會做援助 國際援助大概不太可能直接給錢吧"},{"start":11963.846,"end":11989.433,"text":"中華民國預算法也很難直接給錢吧美國以前是在援助其他弱勢的國家那現在呢他就說你就去捐好像是在援助他好像我也不曉得他的意思他的答案就是給我錢其餘免談所以這五個方法我們已經沒有別的方法了來彭主委這幾天我想金管會非常累但是"},{"start":11990.353,"end":12018.489,"text":"我們針對現在的狀態金管會還有哪些可能會考慮今天找回來了明天呢後天呢報告委員那個資本市場有波動這是他的特質如果把時間拉長這個波動是是一個我們都一個資本市場目前還算可以承擔的狀態我們就會面對各式各樣的不確定性其實從過去時間拉長來講您聽到剛剛他們講的那五個方法你覺得台灣有多少談判的籌碼"},{"start":12019.85,"end":12042.468,"text":"這五個方法其實都不在金管會所能評論的範圍之內金管會對於資本市場的管理剛剛委員問我們是不是很累我們平常心因為實際上我們必須要更冷靜的去面對這些問題金融海嘯金融風暴其實都經歷過都會走過來只是要受多少代價而已"},{"start":12043.871,"end":12070.906,"text":"那既然這樣的話那就麻煩總裁了現在的問題就在於看到他剛剛講的這些東西現在他今天會有這個變動大家都說是因為美債的關係美債殖利率本來是他預期美國希望他下降現在看起來被拋售然後殖利率上升美國要付更多的錢所以美國總統嚇到了所以他停止那你覺得我們目前為止剛剛聽到說我們外匯存底五千多億裡面您說有大概八成是持有美債"},{"start":12071.906,"end":12099.174,"text":"八成持有美債如果按照這個川普的方法的話將來這個殖利率可能會一直不斷的壓下去那會不會影響央行對於這個美債資金尤其是你每年要繳酷一千八百億你會不會受到影響基本上以目前我們的評估呢到目前為止呢我們還是可以達到我們的目標你的目標所以殖利率你覺得不會大幅的下降美國川普的不是陰謀是陽謀不會實現"},{"start":12102.016,"end":12127.675,"text":"所以我剛剛也是在講就是說中央銀行會密切的注意密切的觀察但是這些錢他其實講的講白了就是關稅只是他的工具目標是消減貿易逆差那最重要的就是讓美國人更多的錢他一天可以收到20億美金的關稅這是他洋洋得意的地方所以我們必須面對這個結果他的政策大概不會變了只是方法的問題"},{"start":12128.476,"end":12135.486,"text":"所以中國開始拋售美債假如這樣的話那你會不會去市場上再把美債買過來"},{"start":12137.765,"end":12166.073,"text":"我覺得是這樣子啦你覺得台灣不應該再去接手美債不不不因為我剛剛也就是說有提供一個數據啦就是說美國的10年期的公債呢在前一陣子的時候是4.94.9多我等於是說他現在還有另外一個美國政府說我們可能接下來要發行零利息的債券你要不要買我剛剛也是在講的就是說你要不要成為他的朋友啦就這樣"},{"start":12167.894,"end":12196.028,"text":"這個就是說他這個是不通的啦不通他不通的而且呢而且呢你就會像那個像他這個關稅一開始的時候呢導致他的那個他的那個結論是我們不會去買他什麼臨時債券第二個就是他會不會發行都還是一個問題那我們也不必要那麼早就說我不會去買更沒有捐款給他們的可能性還沒有談到這件事所以不會也不會有捐款給他們的可能性吧"},{"start":12197.169,"end":12212.2,"text":"捐款所以我剛剛在講到就是說這個捐款所以我們談判籌碼就是賴總統說的嘛第一個增加投資增加軍購第三個投資美國要降低所謂的貿易障礙我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我我"},{"start":12221.909,"end":12247.479,"text":"部長我想我們在這邊質詢過很多次喔台灣的稅不是只有關稅台灣的稅有非常多的貿易障礙尤其是像汽車的狀況就是我們有很大筆的貨物稅所以台灣人買車比別的地方貴這是長久以來的事實這點我想財政部在這裡回答委員的問題就是阿愛會增加我們的稅損那現在你已經沒有稅損這個理由可以用了那怎麼辦呢 你的籌碼是什麼"},{"start":12249.023,"end":12264.441,"text":"跟委員報告你一定會被要求降低所謂的非關稅貿易非關稅障礙類似貨物稅 類似我們國內的這些李李可可的一定會被挑戰這不用財委會來要求你刪了吧美國政府就叫你刪了"},{"start":12265.081,"end":12275.485,"text":"非關稅貿易障礙其實是在於進口的時候相關的檢核事項並不是在於其他的稅的部分你認為他們不會把貨物稅當成障礙嗎當然貨物稅的部分當然跟汽車購買者的財務負擔有關係貨物稅事實上是國內稅如果說貨物稅的話因為有貨物稅所以就沒有人要買進口車進口的車跟國產車都要課都要課的"},{"start":12291.67,"end":12298.198,"text":"而且目前貨物稅對汽車的部分像電動車都是零的貨物稅這些東西你們盤點了沒盤點的狀況接下來怎麼處理當然是在我們盤點範圍內你什麼時候盤點我上上個禮拜已經問過了你們說正在盤點中那現在已經剩下90天了"},{"start":12311.713,"end":12336.208,"text":"所以現在我們希望你們早一點把相關盤點的結果可以跟大家做個簡單的說明相關的盤點的最後我們會提交給經貿的談判小組裡面去做方案的內容重點是要消除所謂的貿易障礙絕對不會只有一個部會啦所以剛剛總裁這邊說得很清楚我們不會用犧牲台灣利益的狀況我覺得這個財政部要守住啦理解 是 謝謝"},{"start":12337.869,"end":12355.817,"text":"總裁我還有一個問題現在就是最嚴重的問題其實是美國跟中國的他不是只有貿易大戰他可能還有接下來的匯率大戰因為中國就是擺明了我跟你談你104我就84然後今天又變成125明天可能變200"},{"start":12357.037,"end":12373.894,"text":"所以接下去他們其實中國手上滿手都是美國公債他拋售之後他手上可能有非常非常多的錢然後他會繼續的控制他的匯率那同樣的我們也會受到美元的影響那匯率當然是一個影響我只要問說中國跟美國這樣的貿易調當然對台灣的影響"},{"start":12376.505,"end":12398.496,"text":"我想就是說 基本上呢 美國跟中國...你的匯率 如果你繼續控制匯率你又會被川普說你是不乖的小孩所以匯率變成是我們的籌碼之一我想中央銀行不會控制匯率中央銀行只要我們的職責就是說讓匯率的波動不要過大"},{"start":12401.637,"end":12424.643,"text":"當它該升的時候就讓它升讓它匯率該貶的時候就要讓它貶因為它的每一個階段它說你沒有控制匯率但是我們都說我們沒有控制匯率可是美國也好像所以我就說我們每年都要跟美國財政部都要溝通所以我們就是必須要跟它講台灣曾經經歷過從40塊上升到27塊"},{"start":12429.444,"end":12448.892,"text":"這段時間對台灣的影響我想時空是不大一樣的時空是不大一樣的現在就是說央行在這上面要做好把關如果要做貿易逆差的調節犧牲掉匯率這個可能也是對我們的廠商有更大的影響對 我想我們會跟美國"},{"start":12451.493,"end":12473.301,"text":"因為它除了進出口關稅之外它如果還在面對匯率大幅的升值而造成我們出口更加卷上加霜這對台灣整體的經濟都能會有很大的匯率呢 必須要反映它的基本面這個我們都知道了所以我希望匯率跟你的談判不應該同時間被犧牲好嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝黃偉銘的諮詢下一位請 某銘才偉銘諮詢 請"},{"start":12487.677,"end":12515.267,"text":"主席各位委員 處理的習慣 大家好主席可我請央行楊總裁金管會彭主委以及台灣政經教育所林董事長林董事長主計總署主計長主計長陳正部長要不要來一下陳正部長也一起來一下好了這都很重要的部會"},{"start":12516.533,"end":12543.726,"text":"那我想經濟部麻煩一下大家一起來面對國難大家要團結在一起不要再搞什麼大罷免了全世界遇到這個事情大家都已經很緊張每天都可能忐忑不安總裁你這幾天睡得怎麼樣"},{"start":12544.726,"end":12554.346,"text":"我還好啊老心在哉我們密切注意情況的發展你要穩住啊有啊 穩住啊"},{"start":12556.359,"end":12578.827,"text":"總裁啊 為什麼美國的公債啊 十年期的公債 殖利率 它飆新高沒有 新高啊 我剛剛提供的一個數據就是說它前一陣子才 還沒有實施這個之前 它都到4.9那後來呢 它就慢慢的下來 下來到4% 3.998的樣子"},{"start":12582.128,"end":12609.401,"text":"但是最近呢是上升到4.332那如果說從4%上升到4.332這個很高嗎那如果說我們跟這個4.98來比較的話4.33還算低啊所以你對美元未來在川普之後的新世界因為坦白講那個上上下下那"},{"start":12610.236,"end":12633.242,"text":"我們也不曉得到底怎麼辦更何況是一般的中小企業這感覺就是說我們各部位的重要的成績單位對不對就川普很重要重不重要川普是他很重要沒有錯但是他就是現在變成我們在屋簷下不得不低頭但是也沒關係"},{"start":12636.095,"end":12645.163,"text":"順著川普走你想要平安健康才會有啊所以總裁你要跟他"},{"start":12647.13,"end":12667.922,"text":"要有一定的溝通嘛你跟他熟不熟當然不熟啦不熟那彭懷南彭總裁彭總裁以前是直接就對上的他有那個熱線不是川普就以前的總統他們的內委這個我就不曉得"},{"start":12670.922,"end":12693.126,"text":"可是你現在外匯存體你買了多少的美國公債?我就說我們會有八成以上啊多少?大概美金是多少?八成以上你覺得說用五千七百億乘上百分之八十有的四千多億美元其實四千多億美元你是有話語權的啊如果把我們逼緊了我們沒路可去的"},{"start":12698.798,"end":12724.458,"text":"老娘跟你拼了我把所有的這個公債通通考慮贖回有沒有這個可能我想這個就是說這個就是有一點情緒的一個反應情緒的對這是一個情緒的反應我總覺得中央銀行要穩定市場我們是密切的關注市場的一個發展然後做妥善的因應"},{"start":12725.86,"end":12732.868,"text":"對好我希望說在談判的時候央行可以成為談判代表的一個"},{"start":12740.578,"end":12755.373,"text":"你至少還有這些籌碼我發現好像現在這個持有美國公債最多的是哪一個國家應該是日本跟中國大陸都持有很大日本配合度很高"},{"start":12756.434,"end":12780.823,"text":"那中國大陸他現在持有的美國公債有多少這個我大概不曉得待會兒我再告訴你好了幾兆他也持的蠻多的啦所以這個世界的當然實力為王那兩邊這樣吵來吵去假設未來美元的過去傳統崇高的地位不見了"},{"start":12783.206,"end":12786.923,"text":"中國大陸他全部贖回那會造成什麼樣的情況"},{"start":12788.808,"end":12795.913,"text":"這個委員所講的是一個假設性的議題你要沙盤推演啊對啦 當然啦每件事情都應該要做一個完整的沙盤推演禮拜一啊禮拜一他說給我們課32%的關稅總裁你有料到說他突然說那這些70幾個關要先停止90天的寬鬆期再慢慢談這一點你有想到嗎"},{"start":12816.407,"end":12832.024,"text":"沒有想到啊所以我們大家要不要大罷免了趕快回歸把所有的108套劇本包括金管會包括財政部我請教那個部長莊部長"},{"start":12835.888,"end":12855.09,"text":"那未來我們關稅你的想法是怎麼樣他如果調高我們可以跟著調高嗎對等還是我們就是卑躬屈膝我們就隨便就配合他就好不是卑躬屈膝我覺得我們這個部分行政院的有經貿工作小組也有談判的團隊"},{"start":12856.392,"end":12865.184,"text":"會去跟川普那邊做協商跟川普的誰?川普政府的誰?我覺得這個部分當然我們的國安跟外交團隊會在那邊現在我們的談判代表查德木會不會去?目前那個團隊裡面會有政府院長領軍"},{"start":12872.423,"end":12884.882,"text":"財政部有沒有一起參加財政部一直在對相關有關財政部的業務的部分我們都有提供相關的資料給談判的團隊那你派誰去"},{"start":12888.106,"end":12910.801,"text":"妳派誰去目前來說還沒有要求財政部派員而且我們其實在駐美那邊駐美代表處也有我們官務的同仁在那邊經濟組裡面工作妳在美國的關係最重要我們現在最重要的關係是跟誰我們最重要的關係那現在當然面對川普這個關稅的一個措施你們有沒有找Washington DC那邊的一些Lobby的單位來互動一下"},{"start":12915.414,"end":12932.108,"text":"這個部分我相信他們都非常努力的在進行他們是誰包含我們的駐美代表處或者我們在那邊的國安團隊等等對 外交團隊你們在沙盤推演在模擬議題的時候你們要看看有沒有管道"},{"start":12934.462,"end":12950.428,"text":"據我知啦 我所知啦川普總統的周圍以前他發言的人很近周圍他很信任的人最近會來台灣啊你們應該跟他看能不能連線上起碼講講好話吧"},{"start":12952.543,"end":12974.602,"text":"是不是謝謝委員的一個支持啦所以希望說在國難當頭這個時間部長你答不答應全力來為民把關好好來爭取最好的應對方式政府當然是秉持這樣的一個立場那你最近會不會去參與大罷免的活動我從來都沒有參與大罷免的活動啊"},{"start":12980.806,"end":13000.2,"text":"楊總裁你會去參與所謂的應該是沒有沒有是很好的莊部長沒有也很好再來請金管會主委其實你是台灣的兩條金融之一"},{"start":13001.458,"end":13024.556,"text":"楊金龍、彭金龍本來是希望說能擋得住因為今年的蛇年是雙頭蛇雙頭蛇很兇的從過年初的時候有一些人在講希望說你們兩隻大龍可以壓住雙頭蛇小龍那主委這幾天你的心情怎麼樣"},{"start":13027.178,"end":13050.129,"text":"剛剛有委員問到我們就平常心因為儘管會面對這個資本市場管理波動本來就是我們每天都要面對的事情你平常心可以可是說融資斷頭戶什麼時候會萬箭齊發我想今天其實我們每天都有監控剛剛也有委員提到我們都非常關心這個問題因為影響到很多散戶投資人的一些的權益莊部長請問"},{"start":13054.13,"end":13069.726,"text":"是那這部分我們當然像我們在這個上個禮拜天我們第一個的措施就是針對這些可能未來的所謂的融資追繳沒辦法去補繳的這些投資人呢做一些一些動作嘛是目前的情況"},{"start":13070.447,"end":13089.701,"text":"如果股市跌到17000多點的時候我們現在的維持率大概是146今天應該會很大不同就是我們看到昨天跟前天大概就是增加了2%可是相對的來講今天反彈上來會不會是最終的逃民險"},{"start":13091.122,"end":13108.862,"text":"這個當然每個人我們儘管會不會對這個市場做什麼預判啦這完全投資人自己的決定所以市場要有量有量代表多空雙方自己有自己的判斷我想這是最重要的同志們美國川普給我們90天的寬限期在談那談的情況會有幾種"},{"start":13111.564,"end":13114.506,"text":"如果90天又恢復說心情不大好還是要課你32%的關稅"},{"start":13125.939,"end":13144.667,"text":"金管會怎麼辦我想這個我們對各種的情況包括這個三十二這件事情我們在這個星期一已經有有所反應了我想這部分接下來本來這個剛剛成都總裁講的本來這個東西那個uncertainty本來就一直都存在那我們想說我們過去在金管會處理這個類似這個"},{"start":13147.088,"end":13173.076,"text":"金融上面的波動特別是股市的波動我們有很多很多的相對應的方法來穩定市場上次在這邊質詢的時候其實官員的回答是答錯了我說這個關稅的問題會不會造成國內中小企業上市櫃公司重大的影響你們查查看我們這個都有錄音的你們的回答是說影響不大經過"},{"start":13176.384,"end":13183.003,"text":"這個尋答大概會有22千左右的上市櫃公司可能會有一些影響其他影響不大"},{"start":13186.205,"end":13210.772,"text":"那個回答是錯誤的沒有 那是我們那個其實當時的是我們交易所去做調查上市櫃公司針對那幾個被點名的國家我們在那邊的一些的出口跟相對的數字他們的回應說有22家對他們影響是比較明顯的可是你看看第一天你說影響不大全部都跌停在你的任內已經創了8個紀錄"},{"start":13214.279,"end":13235.621,"text":"一天跌幅幾千點?2600點創下有史以來的紀錄我想這全世界都面對到相同的問題啊所以主委你要小心啊未來再過90天以後怎麼辦?請你們做好準備我們一定是全力準備大罷免你會不會去搞大罷免當然不會不會?好謝謝那請主席講"},{"start":13240.158,"end":13263.805,"text":"那主席長我們對這中小企業的應變啊你們要做最好的準備800多億是杯水車薪不夠的啊你能不能提高一點 做準備我們先 這是第一回合啦 將來看情況來講第一回合我們的表現啊大家是很失望的啊你第二回合你要強一點啊"},{"start":13266.752,"end":13279.922,"text":"那最後問 大罷免你會不會去參與不會不會好 謝謝好 謝謝羅明財委員質詢下一位請廖先祥委員質詢好 謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們央行的這個楊總裁楊總裁請"},{"start":13300.461,"end":13305.244,"text":"中華民國有5780億的美元外匯存底那有八成是買美債的那我想確認一下剩下的兩成大概是什麼性質我們買了歐元的"},{"start":13323.971,"end":13340.999,"text":"歐元還有澳幣所以5780億原則上大概會是八成是用美金計價那其他的兩成會是就是其他的貨幣所以八成是美金其他就是兩成是一籃子的貨幣那過去我們會有八成那麼高的一個"},{"start":13342.921,"end":13348.063,"text":"選擇八成放在美金上面就代表說我們國家5780億的資產他是跟美金的價值在做聯動因為我們過去因為這個美元霸權的時代我們相信買美金放美元是相對安全的但這幾年這個"},{"start":13360.648,"end":13388.369,"text":"國際的貿易情勢有很大的一個變化包括對岸的崛起那包括近期是川普的就任造成了很多的不確定性那也造成了美元霸主的這件事情很多人在存疑未來還能夠走多久那這件事情不曉得央行這邊的判斷是怎麼樣那未來會不會去調整一下一攬子貨幣的一個美金所占我們總外匯的一個比例"},{"start":13388.949,"end":13411.961,"text":"會啦 我想委員講的也沒有錯就是說中央銀行也會密切注意事實上我們每天都是在評估這些必備的一個安全性它還有它的獲利性中央銀行的外群體我們最重要的第一個就是說它的安全性第二個它的流動性所以你講的這個沒有錯就是說我們要看情況做適當的一個調整"},{"start":13414.902,"end":13437.999,"text":"這個我們都隨時在做所以在川普這個宣布對等關稅的政策之後那我們央行的評估是會調升美金所佔的比重還是你們認為他的不確定性可能要讓我們暫時的去降低美金所佔的比重我們到目前為止還是密切的注意他的發展"},{"start":13438.419,"end":13457.552,"text":"所以目前還沒有要調整相關的比例那我想未來包括剛剛很多委員提到了可能包括對岸會用這個外匯的一個手段去做一些貨幣市場的一個戰爭那可能都會影響到美金的它的一個價值等等的有時候不一定是我們的判斷而是也要看一下其他國家"},{"start":13458.432,"end":13483.507,"text":"對於美金所做的操作那我希望說我們可能有四千多億的美金的價值那它隨便漲個一趴跌個一趴對於我們中華民國的資產來說就有一個很巨幅的一個變動那也希望我們的央行繼續秉持我們的專業來調整好我們這個外匯存底一攬子貨幣的一個比例是 沒有錯 那個委員分析得非常好我非常贊同好 謝謝董事長那我接下來請我們的經濟部 市長黃市長 請"},{"start":13488.513,"end":13502.552,"text":"市長抱歉您邊走邊講喔就是這一次的大概就是90天內是10%嘛那10%這部分到底是國內的廠商要吸收還是這個買方要吸收甚至是還沒有"},{"start":13503.693,"end":13529.081,"text":"還沒有出貨的一個東西的一個製造他可能不是一兩天能夠做成他可能需要個半年一年他才能夠出貨譬如說船舶這些東西他都會被這10%影響那可能國內的廠商跟買家跟美國的買家就會產生一些糾紛或是過去的這個契約沒有寫到那麼細那有沒有廠商會遇到這樣子困難我們的經濟部會怎麼樣的來協助我們這些廠商這就是10%的一個爭議是"},{"start":13532.042,"end":13558.51,"text":"鮑偉這個其實就是我們的廠商跟客戶之間他會有一些協議的一些行為大概就是說大家彼此怎麼樣去分攤還是說是由賣方還是買方來分攤對但是這個應該是全面性的問題每一個對美國的廠商都會遇到這樣的問題我們經濟部會不會成立了一個專責的窗口來協助這些廠商如果說協調的好當然最好協調不好我們經濟部有一個單一的窗口協助廠商去打這個貿易戰或者是法律戰"},{"start":13559.21,"end":13583.42,"text":"好 跟委員報告其實我們經濟部有成立一個單一服務窗口是包括法律問題對 我們都可以來協助所以就是如果廠商未來這10%的關稅要負擔多少沒有辦法跟買方談好的話我們經濟部未來會有律師來協助這些廠商來爭取他們應有的權利這確定喔是 我們可以來協助確定喔好 那就相關的訊息都有散播出去了嗎是好 謝謝"},{"start":13584.64,"end":13587.221,"text":"好 謝謝六委員的質詢 現在要請葉元智委員質詢主席好 麻煩先請楊總裁請"},{"start":13618.074,"end":13640.142,"text":"總裁這次要去跟美國談判除了用零關稅為基礎這是總統講的零關稅基礎去談其實很多專家也指出來說美國其實更在意的是一些非關稅的貿易障礙其中有一項跟央行有關就是人為干預匯率但我覺得這個問題其實想要問一下總裁的意見因為"},{"start":13641.562,"end":13659.199,"text":"我們如果要跟他們談當然這也涉及到台灣要加大對美國的採購那採購又涉及到匯率當然對我們來講的話台幣匯率越高採購可能就是對我們越有利可是美國又認為"},{"start":13660.953,"end":13676.781,"text":"外匯市場的人為干預是貿易障礙這部分總裁你認為應該要怎麼拿捏事實上他也沒有說外匯市場的干預是貿易障礙 不是事實上我跟委員報告事實上匯率的這個議題是美國財政部在主導的是美國財政部在主導"},{"start":13687.014,"end":13689.436,"text":"所以匯率這個問題說實在的連美國的以前的財政部長他都一直認為匯率這個價格說實在的是很難去說它哪一個匯率價格是合理的"},{"start":13705.933,"end":13733.371,"text":"因為我們諮詢的時間很有限你直接回答問題就好了因為美國認為說外匯市場人會干預是其中一個非關稅的貿易障礙他沒有講這句話在他們的報告裡面有啦他說是匯率超重他沒有說是匯率干預匯率超重是誰來決定的匯率超重是財政部在決定的"},{"start":13734.141,"end":13743.931,"text":"你說是我們美國財政部在決定的他是說台灣台灣的匯率超重沒有啊我們沒有匯率我們沒有超重啊我們沒有超重我們沒有根據美國前幾次的匯率報告裡面呢我們都是"},{"start":13750.218,"end":13759.666,"text":"都是那個觀察名單那觀察名單裡面呢我們是兩項去符合他的觀察名單的兩項第一項呢是經常帳順差第二個呢就是說我們對美國的順差那這兩項呢都跟中央銀行所以總裁你認為說美方認為的可能的"},{"start":13769.795,"end":13793.931,"text":"一個非關稅的貿易障礙其中一個外匯市場我們這邊沒有嘛我們沒有嘛所以這個部分要排除我們有調節但是我們沒有操縱我們沒有操縱有沒有調節或操縱那個是他們的認知現在主要是美國在他們把關稅提高叫大家來談嘛川普的態度也很高川普說現在大家都排隊等等去"},{"start":13794.511,"end":13819.347,"text":"去拍他馬屁啊所以現在的不是我們講什麼是他怎麼認定嘛所以假設今天要去跟他談判的時候你會去跟他講說沒有我們絕對沒有干預到外國市場沒有操縱也只有調節我剛剛就跟委員報告了嘛事實上匯率的這個議題呢是美國財政部在主導的嘛不是美國的那個商務部嘛"},{"start":13820.846,"end":13834.458,"text":"不是美國的商務部啊美國財政部川普要跟你談的話他美國的財政部我跟我有報告現在美國政府很多官員跟川普一直都不一樣他大概在四月中謝謝總裁那我接下來問一下那個經濟部次長經濟部次長有來嗎 沒有來副次長請"},{"start":13851.022,"end":13870.581,"text":"委員好次長那個因為我們現在要談判喔其中有一項是要加大對美投資嘛那當然大家都會關心台積電啦那按照川普的說法台積電是因為他自己去的啦他說因為他跟台積電講如果你不來的話我要課你100%的關稅所以他是自己去的這個次長你認同這樣的說法嗎"},{"start":13873.042,"end":13897.211,"text":"我想這個台積電有他的這個全球佈局的考量那因為他的很多的客戶因為我跟你講我會這樣問是因為昨天你們部長 郭部長講說即便是川普把關稅拉到32%對於我們的晶圓產業也不會有什麼半導體也不會有什麼影響他是這個意思那如果按照這樣的邏輯的話那川普用百分之百去跟台積電說那台積電"},{"start":13898.956,"end":13901.602,"text":"會因為這樣子跑過去投資嗎所以你認同川普這樣講的話嗎好"},{"start":13904.505,"end":13928.31,"text":"我想那個台積電有他的這個我問你認不認同啦我是問台積電怎麼樣我是問你認不認同因為我會這樣講是說現在因為我們要談判當然就要有籌碼嘛那台積電已經宣布要去投資但是經濟部投審會還是可以審查對吧是是所以我們對於這個審查會不會當作是台美談判的其中籌碼之一"},{"start":13929.704,"end":13956.585,"text":"會不會跟委員報告其實我們在這個投資談判這個任何的這個對美的談判其實包括投資包括採購這個部分都會納入到整個談判的這個內涵裡面那我想我們也都會把我問的問題很具體啦我說針對台積電投審會的審查因為也有人呼籲說要嚴格審查然後當作談判籌碼之一有可能嗎"},{"start":13957.764,"end":13983.206,"text":"當然我們在投審會在審查的時候一定會考慮到整個國內的這個產業的這個競爭力的部分還有整個產業的一個全球佈局的需要那這個美國的這個談判的部分我想我們都會綜合的考量啦OK 謝謝好 謝謝右邊的諮詢下一位羅美玲 羅美玲 羅美玲我們不在"},{"start":13984.267,"end":14012,"text":"許宇珍許宇珍許宇珍委員不在王文維王文維王文維委員不在陳培宇陳培宇陳培宇委員不在陳冠廷陳冠廷陳冠廷委員不在鄭振淺鄭振淺鄭振淺委員不在蘇清群蘇清群蘇清群委員不在張家俊張家俊張家俊委員不在黃建豪黃建豪黃建豪委員不在林楚英林楚英林楚英委員不在"},{"start":14014.161,"end":14040.133,"text":"那麼報告委員會今天登記法案的委員已經完全詢談完畢現在進行討論事項第一案第二案以及臨時提案共五案的處理預計先讀時間15分鐘先讀完畢以後即進行協商與法案無關的相關部門的行政長官可以先"},{"start":14042.254,"end":14060.02,"text":"所以就是留下財政部的長官其他人都可以離開了請議事人員宣讀然後請我們各黨團的我們的先進同仁是不是call一下你們的委員過來處理"},{"start":14064.442,"end":14084.962,"text":"納稅者權利保護法部分條文修正草案案委員賴氏寶的二十二人提案對照現行條文第六條第二項修正為前項租稅優惠之擬定於法律案送請立法院審議前應舉行公聽會並提出稅事支出評估第七條第三項刪除及利息三制"},{"start":14085.953,"end":14110.894,"text":"第七項刪除加計例席之規定第二十條第一項修正為並設置專人為納稅者權利保護官新增第三項前項納稅者權利保護官之設置應以下列方法選任但外部專業人士比例不得低於總人數二分之一依各級基金機關以任務編組方式指定二選派外部專業人士擔任"},{"start":14112.014,"end":14136.777,"text":"新增第四項,納稅者權利保護官之資格限制任期及其他應遵循事項之辦法,由中央主管機關定之新增第七項,財政部每年應就納稅者權利保護官之業務績效提出績效報告並送立法院備查新增第21條之一,公務員違反本法規定者應移送監察院彈劾或糾舉"},{"start":14138.158,"end":14156.098,"text":"委員羅廷偉等18人提案修正第四條第二項前項所稱維持基本生活所需之費用由中央主管機關參照中央主計機關所公布最近一年全國每人可支配所得中位數60%定資定於每年定期公告及檢討"},{"start":14158.905,"end":14177.457,"text":"委員林思明等二十人提案修正第七條第三項刪除及利息三字第七項刪除加計歷史規定第二十一條第五項刪除利息二字委員林思明等十八人提案修正第二十一條第四項納稅者不服課稅處分覆查"},{"start":14178.758,"end":14205.089,"text":"或訴願決定提出行政徵送之案件其課稅處分覆查或訴願決定自本法施行後因違法而受法院撤銷或變更自法院作成撤銷或變更裁判之日其餘七年未能確定其因納稅而者不得再行核課但與其係因納稅者之故意延至訴訟或因其他不可抗力之事有所致者不在此限"},{"start":14211.65,"end":14218.572,"text":"加執行及非加執行營業稅法部分條文修正草案案委員、宗教兵等18人提案"},{"start":14220.455,"end":14245.171,"text":"第六條之一第一項第二項通現行法條文第十三條第三項修正為前二項小規模營業人指第十一條第十二條所列各業以外之規模小小平均每月銷售額未達五十萬元之理營業人增列第四項前項小規模營業人銷售額基準因依物價水準及最低工資變動情形每四年評估一次"},{"start":14246.365,"end":14270.061,"text":"第23條小規模營業人文字修正為依第32條規定免用統一發票之小規模營業人第24條第三項小規模營業人文字修正為依第32條規定免用統一發票之小規模營業人第26條小規模營業人文字修正為依第32條規定免用統一發票之小規模營業人"},{"start":14271.582,"end":14299.177,"text":"第32條第一項小規模營業人修正為平均每月銷售額未達20萬元之小規模營業人第32條之一第一項文字修正為因依規定實現將其開立電子發票及相關必要資訊傳輸至財政部電子發票整合服務平台存證增訂第四項第一項規定之傳輸實現開立電子發票及相關必要資訊之範圍由財政部公告之"},{"start":14300.325,"end":14309.451,"text":"新增第48條之二同線型條文第50條同線型法條文"},{"start":14310.851,"end":14329.647,"text":"委員中嘉賓等23人提案第10條修正為營業稅稅率除本法另有規定外最低不得少於5%最高不得超過10%其徵收率由行政院定之但於中華民國118年12月31日以前小規模營業人資營業稅稅率為1%前項小規模營業人資認定標準由財政部定之"},{"start":14334.651,"end":14361.062,"text":"第13條刪除第23條刪除第24條刪除第二項第三項第25條刪除第26條刪除第28條修正第一項營業人之總機構及其他固定營業場所月銷售額於一定基準者應分別向主管基層機關申請稅籍登記新增第二項前項月銷售額至一定基準由財政部定之第40條刪除"},{"start":14363.837,"end":14390.806,"text":"委員郭國文等17人提案第42條之一第三項修正為第一項應由主管基準機關核定之案件其案營業人申報資料核定或應補稅款符合稅捐基準法第25條之一免徵規定者主管基準機關得以公告方式在明申報業經核定代替核定稅額通知書之填據及送達"},{"start":14392.318,"end":14419.89,"text":"第44條第一項修正為財政部得指定稽查人員對營業人進行有無依規定開立統一發票之稽查並作成記錄第二項刪除第48條第一項修正為儲新台幣1500元以上15000元以下罰還第二項修正為儲新台幣3000元以上30000元以下罰還第59條修正為本法施行細則由財政部定之"},{"start":14421.414,"end":14438.903,"text":"第60條本法施行日起初中華民國88年6月28日修正公佈條文自88年7月1日施行106年6月14日修正公佈條文及全年全月全日修正之條文自公佈日施行外由行政院定之"},{"start":14444.349,"end":14463.914,"text":"委員陳昌明等18人提案第8條第一項新增第22款農漁會收購農林漁牧產物所製初級加工品其初級加工品由中央主管機關認定之其他款次依序調整委員邱志偉等16人提案修正第8條第一項第6款實體圖書免徵營業稅"},{"start":14466.533,"end":14477.839,"text":"委員代事保黨25人提案修正第13條第三項前二項小規模營業人指第11條第12條所列各業以外之規模小小平均每月銷售額為達30萬元而課徵營業稅制營業人"},{"start":14481.874,"end":14495.643,"text":"委員嚴寬恆等十六人提案第十三條第三項修正為前二項小規模營業人之第十一條第十二條所列各業以外之規模小小平均每月銷售額未達新台幣三十萬元而課徵營業稅之營業人"},{"start":14500.946,"end":14517.294,"text":"委員類似報導22人提案對照現行條文修正第58條為防止逃漏控制稅源及促進統一發票之推行財政部應訂定統一發票給蔣辦法,其經費由全年營業稅收入總額中提出3%以致因應"},{"start":14531.883,"end":14533.346,"text":"妳的資料因為剛剛被叫上來唸"},{"start":14548.086,"end":14574.887,"text":"接續宣讀臨時提案五案第一案請研議取消來自中國小額包裹免稅之優惠一依關稅法第49條第二項規定進口包裹物品因應相關規定徵收關稅貨物稅營業稅菸酒稅菸品健康福利捐特種貨物及勞務稅及推廣貿易服務費為自民國八十九年起規定完稅價格在新台幣下桶三千元以下者免稅"},{"start":14575.948,"end":14593.686,"text":"一百零七年一月一日起更調降免稅額度為二千元以下二根據統計上述進口包裹大部分來自中國且部分有分拆金額以化整為零的方式規避稅負三我國原為各類電子商品及民生用品的製造大國"},{"start":14594.767,"end":14616.029,"text":"所生產的相關產品品質優良廣受世界各國消費者愛用長期為台灣賺入大量外匯並支持台灣產業向上升級近三四十年來中國利用低廉的人工成本及大量抄襲及仿冒專利逐漸成為世界最大的消費性電子商品"},{"start":14616.69,"end":14636.004,"text":"及各類民生用品的製造大國我國許多消費者見多直接自中國進口或在網路購買致臺灣販售或滋用最終導致扼殺臺灣製造業的生存空間而小額免稅包裹更是助長質疑現象的幫兇我國製造業"},{"start":14637.044,"end":14652.158,"text":"稅逐漸衰退5.美國總統川普於本114年4月2日簽署行政命令自美東本年5月2日起取消來自中國與香港小額包裹的免稅優惠該免稅額度原本規定為美金800元"},{"start":14653.619,"end":14681.221,"text":"約合新台幣26,400元川普總統鑒於大量中國製造充斥美國的消費市場長期以危害其製造業的復興及整體經濟發展乃不惜宣告終止每金800元之優惠制度五國財政部依應與相關部會演繹取消對中國小額包裹之免稅優惠以免繼續傷害台灣本土製造業的發展進而振興製造業網路"},{"start":14682.822,"end":14707.182,"text":"往日榮景提案人吳秉瑞賴慧仁姑國文第二案依網路電子購物商務以下簡稱網購電商或跨境電商為商業發展之必然趨勢無可遏制目前在台灣較具規模之網購電商由我國本土業者如MOMO PC HOMEYahoo 奇摩 ETMO東森購物網"},{"start":14708.584,"end":14724.514,"text":"布克萊、露天市集、生活市集、松果購物等亦有已在台灣落地註冊取得合格營業登記依法繳納稅金者如Shopee、Shopee新加坡、Coupang、Coupang韓國"},{"start":14726.496,"end":14743.01,"text":"洛天、樂天、日本等,而由於網路國界,也有許多消費者在未曾來台落地登記的跨境電商平台上購物,如淘寶中國、時印中國、天目、中國拼多多控股的子公司,"},{"start":14744.111,"end":14767.198,"text":"樂天日本、亞馬遜、Amazon、美國、eBay、美國等這些為在我國落地登記的跨境電商夾起各自獨有的競爭優勢招攬我國消費者上網購物勸明除依法繳稅、免受消費者保護或個人資料保護相關法令之約束包括金流物流交割糾紛"},{"start":14768.838,"end":14794.006,"text":"貨物品質低劣甚至對人身造成傷害卻追溯無門等有有勝者中國電商如淘寶、史映、騰命等更以中國低廉的人工成本及大量抄襲及仿冒專利而成為世界最大的消費性電子商品及各類民生用品的製造大國其產品品項數量乃至價格等均具有他國所無之"},{"start":14795.406,"end":14812.042,"text":"強大競爭力造成我國消費者或直接向中國製造業者進口或自其跨境電商平台廣購因此而扼殺台灣製造業的生存空間最終導致台灣製造在實體店面及電商市場都喪失競爭力"},{"start":14813.783,"end":14839.147,"text":"3.網路電商便捷的購物模式,雖為新世代的購物主流,為為保護消費者權益,及振興台灣製造業之往日榮景。政府機關應協同加強對跨境電商之管理,包括鼓勵未在我國落地登記的境外電商依法登記,落實對已落地登記的境外電商之稅捐積增作業,檢視跨境電商對消費者的保護。"},{"start":14842.648,"end":14850.733,"text":"保護市府落實 清查會在5月6日進行財政部議件尤其是中國的財政部議件在五國不法的行動中來 建案或補強跨境電商這登記 經過查核等機制是網路電商平台之外 會承證諸多紙體商品亦有甚多自中國進口的生活日用品"},{"start":14867.384,"end":14879.732,"text":"加其通路方便、厚色齊全、價格低劣等優勢早已攻占五國消費市場此對台灣製造業的振興十分不利各機關因應共同對策一直對台灣製造業復興極為"},{"start":14884.814,"end":14913.553,"text":"極為不利的消費傾向提案人吳秉瑞 郭國文 賴慧媛第三案面對美國關稅新政策考量我國與美國談判快折數月慢折半年一年都有可能而資金流動是目前各產業最擔憂的問題之一原要求財政部及金管會督促國內銀行業者不要抽銀根避免造成產業雪上加霜協助業者度過此次難關提案人羅明才 黃珊珊 賴世寶"},{"start":14914.854,"end":14929.266,"text":"第四案,因美國關稅新政策,行政院擬定九大面向二十項措施,總經費八百八十億元的我國出口供應鏈支持方案,其中經濟部提出中小微企業代管加碼,提供代管額度。"},{"start":14930.766,"end":14957.436,"text":"250萬元以內1.5%為期六個月的利息補貼考量我國與美國談判快則數月慢則半年一年都有可能原要求經濟部考量為讓企業度過難關嚴密比較醫後振興專業專案貸款及低碳智慧納管貸款貸款額度於3500萬元以內提供利息補貼並且補貼期限最長一年其次為及時因應"},{"start":14959.757,"end":14982.919,"text":"為及時回應企業因應美國關稅政策的疑問與需求經濟部現有提供馬上辦諮詢專線量考量過往COVID-19疫情期間的諮詢經驗電話總是盲線引發民怨原要求經濟部因每日滾動式檢討調整服務量能力和品質以因應屆時各項措施申請辦法公布後的諮詢人潮"},{"start":14983.699,"end":15007.295,"text":"第二轮罗明彩黄珊珊赖世宝第五案鉴于近年诈骗案件频传且受法治新阅议政府积极打诈仍难以全面防治现由内政部警政署刑事警察局携手国内35家银行业者联合成立鹰眼试诈联盟运用AI侦测专利技术建制的鹰眼防诈预测模型在受害者报案前就可先辨识"},{"start":15008.556,"end":15029.391,"text":"並預警可疑的警視帳戶而且警視帳戶預先管控率最高達80%以上燃烤糧全台共有38家銀行業者剩有業者未加入該聯盟以及按金管會統計去年信用合作社的警視帳戶數有750億戶已被詐騙集團所利用而其未加入該聯盟明顯為得"},{"start":15031.613,"end":15050.952,"text":"原要求金管會督促國內所有銀行業者及信用合作社共同加入鷹眼施炸聯盟以完善台灣防炸防護網保障民眾資產安全必於兩個月內向立法院財政委員會提出書面報告提案人羅明才、李燕秀、黃珊珊、賴世寶宣讀完畢"},{"start":15069.192,"end":15088.176,"text":"沒有 第一個齁 這個這個研議 這個財政部表示的意見吧這個對中國大陸來的小額包裹就要免稅把它取消掉 這個到底有多少錢啊這個目前是兩千塊這個以下的是免稅啊兩千塊以下 那如果取消免稅之後對然後取消免稅就是都要"},{"start":15099.902,"end":15113.736,"text":"這個取消免稅兩千塊低價免稅的話那就是所有的貨物都要課稅就是你要想清楚各位要想這個跟意識形態沒有關係因為很多支持民進黨的一直用這個兩千塊你把它取消這個東西"},{"start":15115.998,"end":15130.738,"text":"怎麼去課稅照原來的稅率每個貨品的我們只是研議研議可以的你們去討論一下文字是不是做一個修正那五位委員也同意了"},{"start":15132.558,"end":15155.946,"text":"就是第一的部分就依關稅法第49條第二項規定冒號還有那個引號刪掉然後後面的一個引號就服務費第三行的服務費後面的引號也拿掉另外就是維治民國89年改為87年就做這樣的一個維治修正條件就按照修正和通過又是延逸了宣告加入聯署"},{"start":15163.113,"end":15165.739,"text":"中委員跟李昆禎委員都加入提案"},{"start":15171.423,"end":15197.769,"text":"第二個提案吳委員還有我們賴委員都是提案那做文字的修正吳委員也已經同意那文字的修正就是在第三點的部分的第二行就政府機關修正為數位發展部應協同財政部及經濟部然後加強對跨境電商之管理"},{"start":15199.025,"end":15202.048,"text":"還有最後一段就是說"},{"start":15209.386,"end":15216.53,"text":"由經濟部會同數位發展部及財政部共謀對策這樣子就是把機關寫得更清楚這個我們是財政委員會不能夠經濟部放第一個財政部放第一個經濟部可以嗎"},{"start":15234.689,"end":15240.814,"text":"經濟部放第一個 因為今天樹化部不在啦所以經濟部放第一個 財政部放第二個 樹化部放第三個"},{"start":15247.577,"end":15275.946,"text":"那臨時提案的第三案那個原來在雲一年內委員原來就是把它刪掉所以這個部分我們遵照辦理遵照辦理第四案不是經濟部的第四案跟我們包括第四案第四案是經濟部的跟經濟部也有關那是不是在第五行的部分原要求經濟部這邊是不是可以改成原建議經濟部考量"},{"start":15277.186,"end":15301.268,"text":"那後面 倒數第三行 原要求是不是也可以讓我們改為原建議然後 因每日這邊 下一行 因每日改為因定期就修正這三個地方的文字你這定期是多久 你還是半年一年要不然就是每個月啦 每月啦 每月"},{"start":15305.08,"end":15306.321,"text":"好 這個報告我們現在這個"},{"start":15338.724,"end":15339.998,"text":"先看這本好不好第一本"},{"start":15362.013,"end":15384.96,"text":"第四條請署長說明報告委員因為第四條的部分沒有人的提案其實事實上我們現在施行細則裡面就有規定那我沒有參考司法院跟法務部的意見其實也是大致上是認為細則已經滿清楚了現在實務執行是沒有任何的障礙的沒有關係嘛"},{"start":15385.74,"end":15410.595,"text":"如果實施所做就已經代表沒有問題可以做你就給人家一點credit嘛原來有時候辦法變成一個法律你就你做啊就給他啊你不要說我已經在做了不用立法不需要這樣子嘛不需要這麼的科嘛就按照通過吧因為已經在做了嘛"},{"start":15411.508,"end":15422.076,"text":"對 我們目前就是這樣做就已經這樣做了嗎通常我們都是說因為我們現在沒有這樣做那當然就需要法律徵明訂那當然我們就還是就你們已經這樣做了我們就做了人會整個審查的結論就給他"},{"start":15427.461,"end":15442.723,"text":"照委員的意見通過第六條那第六條計畫也是一樣因為我們先細則第四條都已經有規定了好第六條內委員的意見通過第七條"},{"start":15444.488,"end":15466.506,"text":"那第七條的部分的話事實上我原來提案是認為因為司法院釋字第七次六號解釋認為滯納金不能再加計利息但因為我們在條文裡面非常清楚在應該是在第七項的部分已經講得很清楚說這個滯納金我是按照那個因補稅款來"},{"start":15468.127,"end":15484.597,"text":"大家可以看現行條文它是按照那因補繳稅款來算滯納金的所以它不會有所謂的抵觸憲法的問題那如果今天把這個滯納金就譬如說我們把利息因為它這兩個是不同的適用情形"},{"start":15485.037,"end":15513.746,"text":"譬如說滯納金是針對避稅案件它是違法我們叫做違法應該講說脫法的行為脫法行為它避稅的時候它就看你查不查得到所以我們會給它一個滯納金有點像相對是漏稅案件的漏稅法一樣只是它沒有到情節這麼嚴重所以我們會加這個所謂的滯納金那滯納金用英補稅款算15%另外呢它英補稅款因為它已經完繳了譬如被我們查會是兩年以後它已經完繳了兩年所以我們就要加其他利息"},{"start":15514.286,"end":15522.334,"text":"但這種算法基本上跟司法院那個解釋是完全沒有抵觸的這個在司法院或法務部的意見也是這樣"},{"start":15532.082,"end":15552.538,"text":"謝謝第二十條第二十條是納保官的部分那當然我知道外界有時候會覺得說我們好像全員簽裁判會不會有問題那我跟委員非常誠實的報告我們納保官制度實施以來啊因為主要是因為稅務的案件本身他的案件所涉及的交易太陽比較複雜"},{"start":15553.679,"end":15580.405,"text":"這階段法律也比較複雜它有涉及到國稅跟地方稅所以我們現在納保官技術參考日本跟比利時的方式都是由國稅局的同仁來監認那我們最重要是說到底他有沒有提供相關的保護根據我們這麼多年來實施我們每年都有送這個績效報告其實我們現在納稅人最直覺的反應都是他對我們納保官協調的結果他的滿意度已經高達99%"},{"start":15582.285,"end":15603.969,"text":"所以換句話說在目前的狀況之下其實納保官是覺得就是民眾對納保官是肯定的那我們也問過會計師公會的意見他也建議說我們現在納保官實施的成效很好他也建議說我們是不是維持現在還是由國稅局同名來兼任因為比較專業嘛因為我們要求至少八十等九十等消息最少年資要十名以上"},{"start":15604.429,"end":15622.631,"text":"然後我們也把他列入考核所以現在同仁都很努力在做這納保案件那如果對整個納保協調的結果如果最後的處分還是不符他還是有行政救濟的管道包含婦查啊 訴願啊 行政訴訟這些都有外部人士像我們婦查跟訴願都有外部人士這個都有規定的"},{"start":15623.732,"end":15647.244,"text":"所以我們是建議說現在的這個納保制度是不是可以還是像參考日本比例時一樣還是由我們同盟繼續去處理然後我們一樣跟以前一樣就是我們還是會列入所謂整個考核還有我們每年都會送報告到委員會來接受監督這樣子可不可以 我知道你意思了但是"},{"start":15651.36,"end":15668.446,"text":"你先講說有問題還是可以到上面去 上面就有外部專家那第一階段不要 你們是第一階段不要我們是希望第一階段就有啦 這樣可不可以這個授權給你們 我把因改成德 你可以要你可以不要"},{"start":15674.241,"end":15677.463,"text":"但外部專業人士比例不得低於總數二分之一這個拿掉前項納稅職權力保護官"},{"start":15703.996,"end":15726.127,"text":"得聘外部專業人士那委員我可以再請示一下那後面那個執法的部分是不是也可以刪除因為你如果知道委員原來的是有那個下一項次項他有講到那就是權力保護官的資格限制任期跟其他任職員事項有中央主管就官定制嘛那如果現在是得的話事實上就不用再這樣定嗎"},{"start":15727.809,"end":15744.464,"text":"但是還是有點限制啊你也不能隨便找一個人來當我們現在就有限制了我們現在就有限制我意思是說譬如學者你做教授大家可以接受你不要找一個這種回應的程度啊我瞭解你們的意思啊這個你們自己定啦都給你們自己定啦"},{"start":15744.724,"end":15747.385,"text":"那就是全校納保者權力保護官得聘外界學者專家學者專家"},{"start":15769.983,"end":15798.638,"text":"得聘外部學者專家擔任之這樣的話就結束了委員的意思對對對前向納稅者保護女官之事得聘外部外部專家學者擔任外部專家學者是不是外部專家學者擔任專家學者可以其他都不要了其他都不要了就這樣好 那文保文字整理一下趕快文字整理一下就是"},{"start":15800.619,"end":15824.158,"text":"那個納保官得品外界專家學者就是得選派 不用這樣我就叫你原來的文字 前項納稅者權益保護官制設置得選派外部專業人士擔任 就是你原來的第二款好啦好啦 好不好 我們就用這樣然後第四項我們就刪除 可以嗎好 可以 第三項"},{"start":15826.109,"end":15836.919,"text":"我們會定資格我們會定資格趕快把文字給那個好那你趕快寫給委員看好不好這過來21條21條都一樣21條部分跟委員報告這個這個有兩個問題等一下我等一下那個"},{"start":15850.407,"end":15875.206,"text":"前面那個最後沒有財政部每年就那是有權利預期我知道這個報告我們是不是提文字修正這邊對我們可以同意只是文字修正我們現在原來就有受財委會報告的名稱可以可以可以那我們就這樣好把那個名字等一下先讀了就修正報通過了修正報通過我再你唸一下好了唸一下報告委員我們就這樣"},{"start":15877.861,"end":15907.143,"text":"21條呢 21條都一樣21條的話這個因為都一樣嘛 就按照行政院版本這個沒有行政院版本 這個還沒有行政院版本以後怎麼沒有呢這是不一樣的21條不是喔 21條它是指那個我們這個沒有行政院版本啊這個完全沒有行政院版本"},{"start":15910.571,"end":15914.495,"text":"最後一項第七項財政部的修正是財政部每年第20條"},{"start":15929.468,"end":15944.501,"text":"20條 財政部每年應就稅捐積增機關辦理納稅者權利報復業務績效及考核結果提出報告並受立法院備查有財政部的意見我們接受了21條"},{"start":15949.205,"end":15969.08,"text":"那21條的部分的話這個是屬於行政訴訟中的案件如果今天行政法院我們的原來處分被法院撤銷或變更的時候那我們在15年內如果沒有做成決定的話他就是不能再行合作"},{"start":15970.701,"end":15974.585,"text":"21條採現行版本好 謝謝謝謝委員 非常謝謝還有21條之一因為現在就有懲罰機制因為現行機制"},{"start":15994.738,"end":15998.679,"text":"如果違反相關規定的話就有公務員懲戒法跟你跟這個規定不一樣不要鎮定不鎮定第一個總嘉賓委員的我說明一下好不好請請"},{"start":16022.609,"end":16041.682,"text":"來我這邊有兩個案子那可能大家一時之間各位我們委員會的委員會覺得說怎麼會有兩個案子其實它是兩個制度那先我用18人跟23人來做區分那18人的案子它其實是將開立統一發票的"},{"start":16043.202,"end":16056.045,"text":"以維持在20萬沒有去更動我覺得說20萬以下是免開統一發票因為這個全案我要再說明一下我是定在第32條平均每月銷售為達20萬隻小規模營業人的次發普通收據沒有統一發票"},{"start":16065.323,"end":16092.811,"text":"這個部分呢是跟原條文呢不一樣那原條文呢他是只有沒有把那個金額寫出來我這裡是就明定那事實上這個20萬是跟現在開立統一發票的門檻是一樣的這是指18人的提案但是18人提案他雖然維持一個20萬以下免開立統一發票但是這跟小規模營業人的定義是脫鉤的因為我在第13條的部分呢也跟我們賴思寶委員的提案"},{"start":16095.052,"end":16107.778,"text":"是維持有20萬維持統一發票的情況之下呢我們把小規模營業人定義在50萬以下叫小規模營業人那小規模營業人適用的稅率就跟"},{"start":16109.537,"end":16131.712,"text":"以上的營業人不一樣 一個是1% 一個5%大概我先說明一下我的23人提案跟18人提案的差別是這裡那剛講的是18人提案它仍然維持有一個一定額度上才要開立統一發票一定額度以下免於開立統一發票只是目前我們的原條文 現行的條文是沒有把金額寫出來那這樣的話 那我還沒講完嗎那23人的部分"},{"start":16135.535,"end":16152.42,"text":"二十三年的部分呢就根本的就把這個可以免開統一發票的規定就拿掉了那這個衝擊是比較大也就是說這個完全由財政部他來決定這個這個憑證的這個使用的方法"},{"start":16153.654,"end":16178.079,"text":"那這個時候呢也對於所謂的小規模營業人就是這個一趴五趴的規定呢就沒有在這裡面做明確的規範那以上說明那看看財政部是不是沒有我先看財政部他有沒有偏好會學怕會學怕所以我才說要先聽聽看主管機關的意見所以你等於說兩個會學怕財政部替你改觀這樣他們看要做什麼他們才不會聽"},{"start":16181.09,"end":16199.485,"text":"等一下 等一下 等一下這樣子啊 那個總委員啦你這樣說 這回事什麼啦我們是不是就一條一條 好不好就這樣一條一條來啦好不好我們現在看第 莊家斌委員的提案第六十一 六十一就"},{"start":16201.272,"end":16206.678,"text":"科學 科技產業園區科學園區跟科技產業園區現在的用法是要科技產業園區不是科學園區喔"},{"start":16217.029,"end":16236.326,"text":"是是是 我們現行條文在今年1月4 你們改了去年8月7號就修正公佈 我的條文比較慢所以你們不用改了你們會員先提現行條文好 第八條那第八條的部分我來說明一下那因為陳委員他特別提出來是農漁會 他在增訂22款農漁會收購21頁 21頁 21頁 謝謝"},{"start":16243.351,"end":16261.22,"text":"他是針對蒙漁會收購蒙漁漁牧產物所製初級加工品其初級加工品由中央主管機關認定之那我跟委員報告目前對於蒙漁會他是怎麼課稅的現在事實上在共同產銷制度之下基本上全部都免"},{"start":16261.92,"end":16272.152,"text":"好 都是免的也就是說農民你也免農民會也免那現在被課的是不符合共同產銷制度的部分那目前農民會只有賣給會員的可以免賣給非會員的還是要課稅這是現行規定"},{"start":16278.038,"end":16302.606,"text":"那這樣之後我們修正就會變成今天農漁會賣給非會員也可以唸那這個衝擊是什麼我們現在可以想像兩家超市一個叫農漁會超市一家是我們一般的超市我們就不要講哪一家譬如說女醫生就是一國兩制的啦對 我們就是考慮到這個所以我們是建議對啊 好不好我們就陳昌明我們就不予修訂啦 好不好"},{"start":16304.434,"end":16332.132,"text":"還有一個 邱志維邱志維 邱志維 邱志維那邱志維委員對不起 等一下圖書的部分那我跟委員報告因為我們現在的文化藝術講座條例裡面所授權替代執法我們現在是要經過文化部認可的經過他們認可的圖書他就可以解免就可以免一月稅那因為這樣委員這樣一講的話就會變成讓人家覺得好像我不需要進行認可這樣好不好我稍微修正一下"},{"start":16333.232,"end":16350.367,"text":"陳昌明委員跟邱志文委員的提案財政部基本上我們尊重他他就不接受不接受我們不要說不予修訂我們把他留在財政委員會萬一哪一天他做要了我們還可以用好不好就把他留在這裡不予處理不予處理這樣就結束了就放在這裡了再過來"},{"start":16358.154,"end":16376.714,"text":"那接下來是第四條那這個其實整個都是關於人性的關於人性那我們是不是可以就相關的條例跟小規模因為主要大概都是這個就是庄家平委剛剛提的第十條跟第十三條啦"},{"start":16378.515,"end":16402.561,"text":"這兩個 希望財政部指導他一下其實我們有跟委員溝通過我們都知道委員利益都有良好反而是希望說我們現在本來財政部一直說規定20萬我跟委員報告當時都是希望台灣的價值行業稅永遠都會變主流簡單講在國外他們也都是大家去日本就知道"},{"start":16405.115,"end":16419.251,"text":"我們目前還不敢我們至少要有一個緩衝期裡面但是它有一個財政部規定標準是授權我們訂的那我們這個就是有彈性就是我們看與時俱進去調整這個免使用方法"},{"start":16419.711,"end":16435.872,"text":"的那個標準這樣那當然我們當時為什麼只維持20萬是因為我們希望台灣到最後都按照實際銷售額來課1、2歲這就像我們去日本旅遊大家可以發現每一家商店機都有開評準它有多少就報多少那台灣的機制是變成說我給了一個"},{"start":16437.854,"end":16451.743,"text":"免使用發票以後就變成有一部分是課1%的稅率有些人就課5%但是因為這個制度實施到現在我們還是認為說可能還是有一些需要查聽課程所以我們就維持但我真的是請委員是不是因為"},{"start":16453.344,"end":16476.257,"text":"發票制度走到今天真的很不容易它是我們現在發票已經不是單純只是課稅的工具它包含了食品稅源包含了我們競銷勾結包含洗錢防治它已經變形到富有各項公司我知道了你當然講的是一個例但是另外一個例現在真的微型企業是要很難看的"},{"start":16476.917,"end":16503.6,"text":"真的 這個來其他委員會議見來 郭委員這個部分其實我們在委員會也交換過好幾次意見可是就如同剛剛署長所講的那與時俱進 做彈性調整可是從來沒有調整過從來都沒有啊 一定要維持二十啊那個數十年來的日子他不是想要把他殺掉 連二十都不要對 他是打算把他殺掉然後我們打算是要把他提高那個完全立場上不一樣"},{"start":16507.328,"end":16526.475,"text":"就是我們應該講說台灣未來的制度我們希望走向什麼我們台灣是應該越來越進步嘛然後我們希望說家族型應該變成一個主流但是我們現在是有一個緩衝所以我是真的請委員是不是可以支持我們還是維持有財政規定標準但我們隱若就是我們財政部會去"},{"start":16527.782,"end":16551.439,"text":"思考一個配套措施這個賴昭偉賴昭偉的意見他今天本來他的意見很多他滿堅持的我覺得我支持他其實我是記得去年去年宋所長也是去年我們財委會也提過相同的事情其實我們都是希望說既然與時俱進的話那這20萬是30幾年前訂的標準是不是"},{"start":16556.644,"end":16567.934,"text":"對啊 那現在已經是114年了啊那你還在用S1的標準這個其實來講就沒有與時俱進啦就是如果沒有做一些調整的話你們就會按照這個意思這樣好不好"},{"start":16573.038,"end":16594.19,"text":"彼此尊重一下啦 因為你的目標很好就最好把它殺掉 可是目前殺不掉而且危險事業這麼多 真的很辛苦啦你那個賣個麵你還給我開發票 可憐啦 真的早餐賣個蛋餅 全部蛋餅加那個豆漿加起來都不到五十塊錢你還要給我開發票"},{"start":16598.412,"end":16613.877,"text":"對不對 這個東西我覺得太老民了這樣好不好 我做一個小結啦尊重總委員 50萬不然我的30萬你37年都沒有調整啊你總是要讓我們委員 你看今天基本上我都尊重"},{"start":16622.439,"end":16636.467,"text":"尊重你啊你剛剛說要維持你們的但是這個我覺得替那個真的很小的企業著想一下這把它提高一點然後呢我們出去要協商你們還可以再去想一想 這樣這樣好不好"},{"start":16643.486,"end":16661.928,"text":"要入法你們就因為我們今天這個事情賴昭偉跟我反面好幾次叫你們做你們都不做所以要入法啦我沒有害你喔我吹捧你啊你即便沒有入法基本上你們沒有入法所以你說要保留彈性事實上也從來沒有彈性過"},{"start":16664.458,"end":16674.089,"text":"對啊 因為我們其實建議過非常多次啊你就一直維持20萬 一直維持20萬那其實不符 那個已經開了一張發票真的不符那個行政成本"},{"start":16676.929,"end":16699.103,"text":"我的意思是這樣的就是說的確委員非常照顧一般的小商民然後也提了很多次但是財政部規定標準就像我們一般的執法一樣它是有保留與時俱進的彈性但委員如果認為我們這麼多年都沒有調整今天可以做成就是維持財政規定標準但做成一個決議說要求我們財政部未必要檢討"},{"start":16700.765,"end":16715.455,"text":"然後我們就會把檢討的結果 包含配套措施一起送過來 然後我們送過來人們會一定會審嘛 審過了以後那我們就根據這個來調整你那個不用入法 跟我們一起審都審不到了這個這樣子啦 那個"},{"start":16719.264,"end":16746.005,"text":"其實齁我真的因為這個也提案很久了我從上一屆提那這一屆又提那其實也很感謝召委排入議程所以開始財政部負稅署動起來了我不要說緊張起來了那其實我為什麼兩個提案其實呢也是跟負稅署有討論過那為什麼呢其實這個制度呢有兩個點大家都把它擰在一起原來在條文裡面第一他們有明定小規模營業人"},{"start":16747.586,"end":16770.058,"text":"是多少金額 月營業額是多少 平均月營業額第二 他也沒有去明訂免用統一發票他有規定哪些像什麼市長者啦這些免用統一發票有規定但是月營業額多少以下的也免用統一發票 沒有規定但是我們都知道稅率免用統一發票這個事情跟小規模營業能適用1%的稅率這是兩碼子事情"},{"start":16774.247,"end":16795.589,"text":"這是兩碼子事情如果財政部付稅署你想保留統一發票因為現在是20萬為門檻但是如果我們把這個調高之後的確會產生一個情況我原來是20萬以上了我就用了統一發票了可是我現在還做到40萬結果呢你們通過了一個版本是50萬以上才需要開統一發票那我要不要再開啊"},{"start":16796.696,"end":16825.475,"text":"對不對 就會有新制跟舊制就發票的開立的門檻的新舊制的問題所以開立發票這個選項跟視為小規模營業人適用1%的稅率這是要脫鉤處理我目前的為什麼兩個版本我這兩個版本一個有脫鉤 一個沒有脫鉤一個就是明白的寫所有的小規模營業人就是50萬以下的就叫小規模營業人然後50萬以下的小規模營業人就是1%"},{"start":16826.756,"end":16836.353,"text":"但是另外一個版本呢 我就讓他脫鉤就是不去更動我們把所謂的免用統一發票的規定就授權給財政部"},{"start":16838.243,"end":16857.543,"text":"然後所謂的小規模營業人要給1%的稅率的也交給財政部所以這兩個版本財政部其實如果你們早知道你們要趕快挑一個你們比較可以接受的但是今天比較可惜的是其他各委員的版本是傾向兩個門檻都重新規定"},{"start":16858.644,"end":16886.982,"text":"五十萬或三十萬沒有統一發票以下嘛五十萬或三十萬以下百分之一的稅率所以我第一說我很佩服我們召委拍了這個案子但是我是覺得財政部因為你們到現在都沒有表示你們對於發票開立發票這個事情跟小規模營業人適用百分之一的稅率的事情你們沒有去做出調整我兩套制度讓你們選你們都沒有做其實這兩個是可以脫鉤的喔開立統一發票這個事情是可以維持在二十萬以下"},{"start":16887.702,"end":16914.54,"text":"但是如果你要給小規模營業人比如說30萬以下或50萬以下給他1%的稅率這也是可以規定的所以大家誤會了誤會以為說我們的提案要消滅統一發票或者要把統一發票的這個門檻拉高讓不開發票的行業人更增加錯外界都有這個影響你們在對媒體的角度也是這樣我們那個提案一出來什麼50萬的門檻啊你們現在把開立發票移到50萬那麼很多小店家就不開發票了"},{"start":16915.782,"end":16935.003,"text":"其實可不可以處理因為我們本職上在座的委員會員我們本職上是什麼兩件事情要不要開發票第一個第二個小規模營業人一定金額以下的要不要給他1%的稅率優惠這是兩件事情我們對於小店家的體恤有兩個體恤一個是他營業規模很小你用他用5%或1%這對他來講有一個"},{"start":16938.462,"end":16962.047,"text":"照顧的意味第二個開立發票這個成本對有些營業人士有負擔的但是有些營業人士沒有負擔的所以我們這兩件事不一樣的開立發票的賬戶成本是一件事情1%跟5%在它的營業規模要適用兩個不同的稅率但是財政部下來都說不行不能有兩個稅率這樣不公平為什麼同樣是做生意規模小的就要1%規模大的就5%"},{"start":16964.007,"end":16982.894,"text":"這剛好是跟我們各位委員的想法剛好南圓北側我們認為規模小的就是因為辛苦嘛所以給他一趴嘛那如果你們認為開發票要堅持那就繼續堅持開發票但是小規模的呢給一趴的優惠所以這是兩件事情所以我兩套方法讓財政部選到現在都沒有回應"},{"start":16986.479,"end":17013.303,"text":"我覺得看看莊委員意見怎麼樣喔就是第十條的就可不可以第十條維持行政院版本第十三條財政部的意見吧不不不 他們意見就不要他兩個都不要不行啊我們可以通過一個版本啊沒有嘉賓他們兩個都不要他們基本上的程度就是兩個都不要我現在這樣子好不好就是第十三條我們把大家的三十萬五十萬的一起送出去"},{"start":17014.226,"end":17026.891,"text":"好啦一直送出門啦不是說我們統一就送出門送出門 去協商好不好 用這樣我從議事規則上程序處理一下好啦 因為真的"},{"start":17028.038,"end":17048.151,"text":"我們如果都不動 財政部就不會動了我們動了 你們想挽回頹勢我跟你說要分手了 你才不來追我啦不然等著你在家裡等你電話 你都不來電話啊我說不玩啦 我退啦你就開始打電話約我看電影了啦所以我們現在就先通過一個案子但是呢 保留給他們回過頭來之後 他們想用什麼方式跟我交往"},{"start":17048.991,"end":17069.55,"text":"是要以結婚為前提的交往還是以同居為前提的交往你們提但是有一個意識上的程序因為我那個23人的版本如果那個條文沒有留未來要朝野協商他們要進來改條文會沒有地方可以複立可是你這兩個出去是矛盾的喔是矛盾你只能調遷喔那就都保留啊"},{"start":17070.356,"end":17096.318,"text":"啊?就是說一個保留,那一個呢?好啦,可以啦都保留,都保留,沒有通過,沒有通過加了尊重財政部,我們已經有夠尊重財政部了啦因為他們不講話,我真的覺得絕下去你們會很痛苦喔沒有,我只是提醒中文人,到時候人家會跟你打槍說你怎麼自己兩個矛盾欸,彼此矛盾,我怕你啊捏我保留18人版本就是50萬喔"},{"start":17099.619,"end":17122.136,"text":"那可是你們就改不回來那個發票跟小規模業人脫鉤處理喔沒關係你們再想齁 沒關係 那既然他們希望那個18人的白門我就留18都說協商你們要提出一個新的方案出來喔 不能在那邊都反對而已喔對你們打算怎麼做 你們要提出一個相對案出來喔那個"},{"start":17124.461,"end":17134.467,"text":"對對對對對對對沒有錯啊這跟我們那個打賽一樣好啦放棄了好就決定了齁夾兵他要回來追你了他有說要追了齁我等電話找到啊"},{"start":17136.129,"end":17163.007,"text":"第十條 宗教兵委員第十條也是保留送出去 保留送出去保留送出去 他要嘛第十三條 中委員跟賴委員的也全部保留出去延輝委員延輝委員的第十三條好 宗教兵委員的第十八條"},{"start":17165.899,"end":17189.056,"text":"18輪的第23條呢23條怎麼樣23條如果這樣就變成定案都保留了因為他是跟著跟著前面第13條的這個全部保留了對 如果這樣都要全部保留因為這是兩套系統對對對就變成23條 24條還有包含了25條 26條"},{"start":17199.032,"end":17202.655,"text":"第幾條 第幾條第幾條 第23條保留第24條保留26條253組"},{"start":17221.987,"end":17225.689,"text":"要保留好26條也保留32條也保留保留保留保留"},{"start":17253.19,"end":17258.674,"text":"三十二條之一採現行法那四十條呢保留好 四十二條之一保留"},{"start":17274.657,"end":17290.925,"text":"還好吧這個我跟委員報告這個你明明不會同意啊我跟委員報告 但是在行政院審查當中所以是不是可以等那個所以保留 我們的保留對 保留就對了就是42條G 44條還有48條以及48條G"},{"start":17301.81,"end":17310.392,"text":"48之後已經通過了 已經是現行條人了所以我提的這三條都保留就是了是 就在院長裡面 對對對就會進來了 對還有那個50條 50條對對 也是一樣的那個案現行法 58條"},{"start":17322.677,"end":17338.32,"text":"五十八條呢五十八條的話我就把德改成因啦不過委員是這樣子那個增加了一個一個抽獎機會啦因為我們現在每一年我們現在從一百年開始全部都按照"},{"start":17339.621,"end":17349.263,"text":"因為我們現在就有啊我們現在就是都要按足額去編了我們現在就要按足額編了對啊 那為什麼是 可是因為有時候啊你看有時候發生一些重大的一些事故的時候我們要保留一點財政調整的彈性啦簡單的講說如果你是"},{"start":17367.606,"end":17376.074,"text":"因為 各位知道嗎他現在編多少 譬如說編一百塊 結果他收到一百一他只用一百塊去發那個統一發票給獎 十塊錢不要了 變這樣子"},{"start":17383.18,"end":17384.881,"text":"因為我覺得統一發票給獎這件事情是看你要給到什麼程度"},{"start":17406.315,"end":17426.27,"text":"但是我們現在都真的都在鼓勵大家用完端發票都是用這種方式所以我是建議說是不是可以維持現行規定但是我們現在原則上都是按百分之一去編足啦保留一點 對不起 百分之三啦那這個可以保留我們預算變略的彈性啦"},{"start":17426.95,"end":17444.253,"text":"主席 我覺得有點疑惑欸五十三條 五十八條憲刑規定跟賴委員的版本齁他的德呢跟因呢是放在要定定辦法欸那你德定辦法跟因定辦法怎麼好吵的就是定啊可是 後面沒有你 你在面試前那是分號你那個是分號"},{"start":17445.694,"end":17458.824,"text":"說德定定跟因定定但是分號後面齊經費你的德跟因有沒有反射到後面經費的百分之三可是委員的立法說明是後面也是因你的立法後面是因嗎"},{"start":17464.568,"end":17468.751,"text":"我真的覺得你們解讀錯誤他的英跟德韓式的範圍是大家要定辦法他的說明是第三條"},{"start":17484.48,"end":17488.523,"text":"58條就按照這個通過然後那個說明人改文字"},{"start":17506.829,"end":17521.522,"text":"我建議說明欄就依現在的這個我們的這個重整版的說明文字就可以了啦因為這件事的說明你馬上看一下那第三點完全就跟你們的無色嘛那第二個那個主席剛剛那個郭委員的那個提案版本"},{"start":17522.162,"end":17539.579,"text":"建議是另定期處理另擇期處理啦因為他的版本要等行政院到了委員會並案處理如果我們現在把他保留他會變成跑到協商的時候去等行政院辦那把他留在委員會等行政院比較好他也同意的話我們我是建議說把國委的版本留在本委員會另擇期處理好第59條咧"},{"start":17544.289,"end":17572.181,"text":"那58條我們修法說明再改給再調整對對對他那個還是我私下在跟您報告我私下在跟您報告59條對啊這個也是一樣嘛也是在行政院版本裡面那就是應定期處理啦好不好"},{"start":17572.788,"end":17576.991,"text":"各位我們做一個 因為大家花很多時間中部還沒吃飯 我們就來做一個結論各位看這張 八案這張"},{"start":17600.95,"end":17626.024,"text":"包含這張中嘉賓18人的以及中嘉賓23人的以及賴世保25人的以及顏寬仁16人的這四個案子併案保留送院會寫上這樣好不好四個四個四個然後另外一個是賴世保"},{"start":17627.83,"end":17654.119,"text":"22人的第58條通過但是說明欄按照財政部所給的說明欄這樣不需要協商 這個就不需要協商了 好不好郭國文的那個17人的另立即處理那個其他的都留下來其他的全部留下來好委員郭國文17人的陳昌明18人的邱志偉16人的這三案另"},{"start":17657.011,"end":17663.774,"text":"另責其審查這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦這樣可以啦"},{"start":17684.443,"end":17703.728,"text":"因為我們這樣保留宋朝野協商那是一個月啦但是我是覺得以今年的修法的狀況還是要約束財政部還是要在多久期限內一個月內或多少期限內因為協商的東西完了之後不見得會馬上協商啦"},{"start":17706.522,"end":17723,"text":"所以呢你們在那一個月內要研議就是就兩個部分提出你們的對案出來第一個就立就統一發票的因開立統一發票的資格規定你們要提一個主張出來"},{"start":17723.936,"end":17740.696,"text":"第二個對於小規模營業人現在本來就有一趴的優惠嘛那對於小規模營業人的定義跟他的一趴的租稅優惠的配套方案要提出一個方法出來那這兩個有沒有連動你們自己判斷我講很清楚喔"},{"start":17742.326,"end":17765.365,"text":"因為統一發票這個事情20萬調成50萬或調成30萬這個是會牽動在現在已經開立統一發票的小店家的影響但是小規模營業人的資格定義以及所謂的1%的或者我們不要說1%就是稅率優惠優惠稅率的規定那你們要提出一個月內提出一個對案出來"},{"start":17767.899,"end":17772.881,"text":"這個部長還有宋署長 署長你聽我講一下你一直想把阿斯文那個殺掉"},{"start":17781.576,"end":17804.921,"text":"這個沒有人願意當窮人啦大家不是一定要當窮人一定是做二十萬的啦除非你做假不然我當然希望做兩百萬的 做兩千萬的為什麼我一定要做二十萬的就沒辦法啊 死記者不要這樣你不要把他先把他殺掉不同的mindset啦 你知道這不同的mindset好不好"},{"start":17807.845,"end":17809.672,"text":"你們兩個下來把你們的附帶決定通過"},{"start":17811.616,"end":17840.282,"text":"負貸決議要不要寫一下我們這兩個負貸決議要寫一下吧還是我們口頭這樣你們寫喔來來來主席我想要請求做成紀錄因為剛剛這個臨時提案我沒有在嘛就是有關研議取消來自中國小兒研議啦沒有沒有我要做紀錄好可以嗎可以請求紀錄嗎我知道現在已經通過了因為我覺得這個會影響到民生經濟民生經濟勝據喔我是反對這個案子這個會影響到因為世界是分工的嘛"},{"start":17840.842,"end":17857.187,"text":"我可以留下這個記錄就好了,因為到時候老百姓會罵死啊雖然他們是通過了,但我要記錄我是反對的我要記錄我是反對,不然因為我有開會,沒關係我還是反對我覺得這是一個戴風箱那種行為是反對的我反對,請留下記錄就好了"},{"start":17859.167,"end":17882.018,"text":"因為這個對老百姓影響太大了老百姓如果從大陸往上勾他上面寫是寫演繹啦演繹也是代表一個風向嘛那老百姓現在世界是分工的話有人可能買衣服啊買鞋子買什麼小東西啊都會可能受到重大影響不然我們這個案子先留著啦我不知道他們怎麼想如果民進黨想過就給他過沒關係但是我反對啦他們能多嘛"},{"start":17882.758,"end":17898.77,"text":"對 留下紀錄就可以了留下我的紀錄啦他們要支持就把支持人紀錄下來讓老百姓來公平就好我反對啊我連言議我都覺得反對請留下我的紀錄就可以了他們要怎麼過 他們人多嘛也可以表決啊"},{"start":17902.236,"end":17920.254,"text":"沒關係沒關係 請留下我反對的紀錄 這點非常重要因為這對老百姓影響太大 就是說老百姓上網買東西就不能 就是免稅的額度全部都被取消了這個不能對老百姓影響太大了這個不是這樣我要反對 你這樣講我要反對這會對老百姓影響很大嘛言喻就是一個方向嘛"},{"start":17922.176,"end":17930.585,"text":"你分黨派都會擁有的到啦對啊沒關係我說你們通過沒關係但是我要留下我反對的紀錄啊因為老百姓會有意見啦給你通過給你通過請留下紀錄就好謝謝那我們等一下等林子緹最後的確認"},{"start":17942.352,"end":17965.181,"text":"我們留兩個提案等你提案就那個事情沒有那個是負債券負債券要法案生效才算數臨提是絕書他們在法案通過前要提出對案出來不然我們協商的時候你們不提啊不提我們還是要處理啊這樣處理會很難喔你們會痛的受不了如果我們通過一個兩個五十五十"},{"start":17967.381,"end":17972.085,"text":"因為部長其實這個你要可以問稅務啦其實現在的我們小店家小公司營業人他有兩種成本一個是賬戶成本"},{"start":17986.998,"end":18011.624,"text":"我不用發票跟用發票我有我的做帳記帳的成本一個是營業的成本因為我營業雖然這個營業稅是消費者付的但是我的規模如果比較小我用1%跟5%因為我們都是先抽錢再付給稅務機關所以小店家他會認為我就收了這麼多錢了我拿5%出去跟拿1%出去Tone的感覺不同雖然我們認為那叫代扣"},{"start":18012.324,"end":18038.032,"text":"好 報告委員會我們現在協商完成了請議事人員宣讀協商結論先宣讀民事提案第一案修正通過第二案修正通過第三案照案通過第四案修正通過第五案照案通過沒有沒有 第一案要寫賴世鵬委員及陳義森委員反對發言反對 這案留紀錄公報紀錄對"},{"start":18042.685,"end":18054.553,"text":"一定要留記錄 因為這個影響太大了所有老百姓都會問了對 因為這個你們的人多麼稅務制度對 他們通過民進黨哪些委員支持最好寫下來"},{"start":18056.679,"end":18073.096,"text":"那這個其實已經對現在所以很多營業人都想要躲在二十萬以下就是兩千塊以下的重新捏掉啦重新捏掉可是他就要他的三四十萬銀額要支撐每個月付三四千塊的記帳室的帳務成本是太高了"},{"start":18074.639,"end":18076.601,"text":"重新宣讀臨時提案第一案修正通過這個陳立正委員跟賴思鵬委員我們發言我們這個"},{"start":18095.953,"end":18124.355,"text":"第二案修正通過第三案照案通過第四案修正通過第五案照案通過宣讀納稅者權利保護法部分條文修正草案協商結論第四條 趙委員 羅廷瑋等18人提案通過第六條 趙委員 賴世寶等22人提案通過第七條 維持現行法條文第20條 趙委員 賴世寶等22人修正通過不下"},{"start":18130.317,"end":18141.582,"text":"第二十條稅捐基增機關應主動提供納稅者妥適必要之協助並設置專人為納稅者權力保護官辦理下列事項一"},{"start":18143.623,"end":18165.312,"text":"1 協助納稅者進行稅捐爭議之溝通與協調2 受理納稅者之申訴或澄清並提出改善建議3 於納稅者依法尋求救濟時提供必要之諮詢與協助4 每年提出納稅者權力保護之工作成果報告"},{"start":18166.332,"end":18192.918,"text":"前項鎖定之納稅者權利保護官與辦理納稅者權利保護事項得為必要之調查前項納稅者權利保護官得由外部專家學者擔任我們會在檢查的時候會變成是我們的修正動力啊我們可以修正動力進去啊他們送來的改為外在這裡不是不是不是不是不是不是不是"},{"start":18201.557,"end":18219.309,"text":"第三項前項納稅者權利保護官得由外部專家學者擔任稅捐基增機關應將納稅者權利保護官之姓名及聯絡方式報財政部備查並與網站公告之人員有所變動時一同"},{"start":18220.45,"end":18246.198,"text":"第一項辦理情形財政部得隨時派員抽查資並列入年度基增業務考和項目財政部每年應就稅捐基增機關辦理納稅者權利保護業務績效及考核結果提出報告並送立法院備查第二十一條之一不予徵訂"},{"start":18250.302,"end":18272.168,"text":"第二十一條維持現行法條文第二十一條之一不予增訂宣讀加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案第六條之一維持現行法條文第十條第十條保留送院會處理第十三條"},{"start":18274.77,"end":18275.131,"text":"我沒聽他講好"},{"start":18280.953,"end":18298.326,"text":"第八條委員陳超明及委員邱志偉委員所提併則其處理第十條保留送院會處理第十三條各人分別提案三案均保留送院會處理第23條第24條第25條第26條第25條均保留送院會處理第26條兩案均保留送院會處理第28條第2932條"},{"start":18311.056,"end":18317.63,"text":"保留送院會處理第32條之一維持現行法條文第40條保留送院會處理"},{"start":18319.284,"end":18345.454,"text":"委員郭國文提案第42條之一第44條第48條另則其處理第48條之二維持現行法條文第50條維持現行法條文第58條照委員賴世寶等人提案通過並修正說明文字委員郭國文等人提案第59條第60條另定其處理宣讀完畢"},{"start":18346.414,"end":18349.717,"text":"請財政部於一個月內研議小規模營業人資格認定營業人使用統一發票銷售"},{"start":18369.858,"end":18393.711,"text":"而標準及優惠稅率之適用 向財政委員會提出對應方案提案委員 賴氏寶 鍾嘉賓 李崑禎 薛獨愛B好 我們就通過好 這個向委員會報告請問各位委員對行政結論有異議沒有異議我們就"},{"start":18395.683,"end":18415.905,"text":"照協商結論通過本日會議做如下之決議第一報告說明及詢問完畢第二委員質詢為其答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會在一週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其所求所定"},{"start":18418.222,"end":18433.249,"text":"委員 顏寬恆 徐欣穎 林祖英 陳冠廷 王世堅所提的書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆"},{"start":18434.738,"end":18449.39,"text":"第四 納稅者權利保護法部門條文修正草案等四案審查人均你併案你據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論以前須由黨團協商院會討論時有本席補充說明"},{"start":18463.806,"end":18485.337,"text":"對不起 休息一下因為討論以前不須交友黨的協商不是啊 這個有的要求 我的案子不要討論黨的協商啊剛剛先讀過了這個不用了我再確定一下喔"},{"start":18493.735,"end":18495.516,"text":"請問各位委員對以上決議有異議沒有異議報告委員會"},{"start":18520.421,"end":18548.987,"text":"本入會議一成好這個報告文外委員鍾嘉斌18人 擬拒 加執行其非加執行引頁稅法 破文條文修正草案委員鍾嘉斌等23人 擬拒加執行其非加執行"},{"start":18552.292,"end":18570.738,"text":"營業稅法部門條文修正草案以及委員賴思寶等25人凝聚 加持型及非加持型營業稅法第13條條文修正草案委員袁寬仁等16人凝聚 加持型及非加持型營業稅法第13條修正草案"},{"start":18573.89,"end":18590.299,"text":"這個這四個案子審查完畢並按明據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論以前需交由黨的協商院會討論的時候有本席補充說明請問各位對以上決議有無異議沒有異議通過"},{"start":18593.532,"end":18594.372,"text":"請問該委員對於以上決議有異議沒有"},{"start":18620.7,"end":18647.915,"text":"委員郭光文等17人擬拒加持薪及非加持薪營業稅法不應條例修正草案委員陳昌明等18人擬拒加持薪及非加持薪營業稅法第8條條例修正草案委員邱志偉等16人擬拒加持薪及非加持薪營業稅法第8條條例修正草案另責其繼續審查"},{"start":18650.732,"end":18671.427,"text":"請問各位委員對以上決議有疑問沒有疑問就通過那麼報告為本日會議程全部進行完畢倘若有不在場的委員不提書面質詢一併列入紀錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理本期宣布散會謝謝"},{"start":18679.036,"end":18688.625,"text":"這個立法說明的那個我們就在一個月內長約會只因為我有空我也有空辛苦了辛苦了辛苦了"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}