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樹木的素質部長等一下我再進一步問到底有哪些狀況喔因為這個其實也很特別喔因為針對這個氣象署的足量的雨量資料喔11月份台南間車站有降雨4天喔"},{"start":138.246,"end":154.392,"text":"那有總共譬如說永康監測站下了6天的雨那這個火災的原因到底是什麼這個現在還要等到他們消防單位來鑑定是會有人為的狀況嗎還是他純粹是有這個高熱物質在裡面悶燒這個現在還不知道"},{"start":155.475,"end":169.387,"text":"因為本席其實曾經釣魚2019年到2023年全國49處的垃圾站置場5年間就發生了72起火災那其實以台南這個仁德掩埋場之前發生火災也只用空污法才罰了5000元"},{"start":171.289,"end":199.096,"text":"我覺得根本不痛不癢那這個部分到底要怎麼處理啊那另外去年我在問的時候你也部長也被詢說要答應要偵射移動式的滅火水塔偵射也沒有新的進度這樣子面對這樣子的狀況要怎麼處理包委員這個是屬於新的這個是新的戰制而且我知道就是因為風災後可是我的意思一樣有很多這樣子的戰制場那你要到底要怎麼管理才不會再發生這樣子的問題"},{"start":200.941,"end":213.801,"text":"我們舊的是有啦但是新的部分的話我們會再跟同仁來討論說跟環保局再確認說不是因為你新設的時候你當時就應該要要求他們是不是就要做管理這是不是代表流程上管理上都有疏忽"},{"start":216.377,"end":229.99,"text":"因為你說這個量體非常大嘛那我想要進一步說的就是這樣子看起來長期的監管失靈會不會導致我們現在很多面對這樣的事情只重視文件的審查而不是實體的管控"},{"start":230.991,"end":251.648,"text":"甚至在第一線的時候這些管理是不是也只是簡單的去對這些相關的數字那像這樣子新的戰事場出現的時候究竟有什麼樣的SOP因為我要進一步的指出喔當發生這樣的火災現在目前為止請問你們只有公布說PM2.5 PM10的指標是不是"},{"start":253.679,"end":273.292,"text":"對嗎可是裡面究竟有沒有其他相關的有毒物質包含著這個戴奧辛啊或者是膚男啊或者是氯化氫這些這些有沒有去檢測難道燒的時候你說真的只有樹木嗎不會有一些塑膠嗎不會有一些其他的有毒的這個廢棄物在裡面燃燒嗎"},{"start":275.863,"end":303.379,"text":"更有報告 烏樹林這個廠是颱風之後集中的一個廠那其實它是暫時的一個廠在整個台南的計畫裡面它也有提特別條例也有預算準備把它清除那不幸的在這段期間它發生不過我們初步雖然在這個火災調查不過最可能的一些原因樹木堆積多了確實它在這個"},{"start":304.86,"end":332.628,"text":"熟化的過程會產生一些木質的一些氣體出來那是比較容易燃燒的可能是這個原因在烏樹林的這個場剛開始的時候但是署長你可以確定裡面沒有其他的有毒物質在燃燒嗎因為我說真的啦你們現在只講常常只講說這個空瓶預警啊只有講PM2.5或PM10的這些常見的指標那請問有沒有其他的有毒物那住在附近的這些居民怎麼辦"},{"start":333.368,"end":361.116,"text":"你們有沒有什麼相關的配套所以現在就兩個問題嘛你要怎麼去檢討精進第一個你的戰事場出現之後你要怎麼去管理他不會發生這樣的事情第二個當發生這樣的事情的時候你們的公布的這些指標還有沒有其他的有毒物質的去鑑定對不對第三個現在常常的短期戰事場都變成永久戰事啊他可以申請再延長申請再延長你到底什麼時候可以把它處理完"},{"start":367.841,"end":391.22,"text":"跟委員報告其實這塊地是先跟國防部借的一塊地台南跟國防部也有在討論它的區劃國防部希望他趕快把它處理掉所以實際上他到今年12月開始他就要啟動他的減量往外運的一個過程他的進度大概是這個樣子"},{"start":391.86,"end":410.755,"text":"沒有署長我要跟你說這是一個事件而已但是最近發生的事件太多了這只是你只是解釋這個事件我要講的事情是你結構性系統性管理上面制度上面你到底要怎麼精進今天發生這個大火你們說要燒多久之前是不是說要燒七天一個禮拜還是要多少時間"},{"start":411.741,"end":433.174,"text":"目前火勢已經控制下來了那現在門燒之後呢會不會又再燒起來呢應該不會現在的消防跟環保單位的人都在現場看不過委員的建議我覺得很好就是說天災的後續這個戰事場的管理上面我們確實可以再精進例如"},{"start":434.074,"end":460.898,"text":"引進跟一般掩埋場一樣的這些設施譬如說紅外線的感應如果溫度有增加的話那這部分可以做一些應該是要要求暫置的時候就要趕快把這個相關的管理上放上去因為你要預防這樣的事情發生嘛你發生之後你去公佈這些數據然後你要再去檢測有毒物對附近的居民是都已經是很大的傷害謝謝委員的建議這個我們真的可以來"},{"start":461.538,"end":490.598,"text":"對再來就是你們越世界的垃圾我也想要請問一下其實當時這個11月5號本席也在委員會執行行政執行行政院核定的112年到117年你們預防環保犯罪暨智慧環保打造綠色幸福家園計劃你們說提報終止那另外要提一個強化全國廢棄物流向的遠端數位管理智慧決策計劃那舊的計劃被你們終止新的計劃現在行政院還沒有核定對不對部長"},{"start":491.878,"end":515.592,"text":"那個預算已經有了但是行政院還沒有核定對嘛行政院還沒有核定嘛那個明年的預算已經編進去但我真的是比較想要請問一下這兩個計畫到底有什麼差別哪一個新的計畫真的比較厲害嗎剛剛你沒有講到有關於所謂智慧維理的系統喔這些這兩個計畫之間到底為什麼你要廢掉原本的然後要用新的是技術更新還是你更有把握可以追蹤的好"},{"start":516.618,"end":537.056,"text":"是 原計劃我們把它精進成後來非法去資源端監控計劃那這計劃可以包含前計劃所以我們就把前計劃經費不要重複 不要跌闖價值我們就把它處理掉那這個智慧維理計劃目前我們預算有匡列"},{"start":538.277,"end":559.242,"text":"希望大院來支持剛剛署長你是有說現在已經有一些智慧維理的使用對不對是 我們先做先導型的示範計畫從我們自己的業務會裡面去做處理所以其實目前你們示範覺得效果很好很好那越世界這個事情是沒有放到智慧維理因為點數不夠所以沒放在那個地方"},{"start":560.162,"end":583.582,"text":"對 所以我就想問嘛發生這種事情誰會想到會有人把它倒在觀光景點那你們這樣未來要佈置點的時候這種地方你要怎麼涵蓋到會 會把它涵蓋到會把它涵蓋進去全國有兩千點所以未來兩千點你會把它全部的佈建進去是 依照我們分析的那個情道的熱點跟可能的區域去做佈設"},{"start":585.278,"end":605.857,"text":"甚至也跟委員報告未來的所有的CCTV監視器經過如果我們的廢清法修正之後我們也會跟警政單位借接所以以後這些東西都跑不掉所以你確定以後用這樣子的管理方式就不會再有人亂倒垃圾都可以掌握得到因為現在其實要的確有一點時間差那未來的話這個時間差可以降到最少"},{"start":606.617,"end":626.651,"text":"部長我覺得這個真的是很嚴重的問題最近好幾次環境部我想這都是現在大家很關注的議題到處有這種所謂的廢棄屋亂清道的部分我要請本席要請你們趕快不要再等了因為你也說過任何一個破壞環境都是罪嘛好不好好再來我想要再問"},{"start":629.016,"end":642.544,"text":"就是有關於光電環評修法的部分因為其實上個禮拜前個禮拜大院已經通過修法了嘛對不對可是我今天看到你們的報告你們寫的"},{"start":643.925,"end":669.361,"text":"好像跟修法的內容是不一樣的今天委員會發的資料你們說山坡地這個裝置容量兩萬千瓦以上或面積15公頃以上者均需實施環評這是代表你們不想要認大院修過的法嗎部長我手上我手上這一本啊今天委員會發的報告你們的環境部的報告第18頁第18頁"},{"start":673.28,"end":685.844,"text":"這是代表還是你們的報告沒有更新是超到還是說你們不想要認是這個意思嗎第18頁今天的報告第18頁上面第二行"},{"start":691.801,"end":704.216,"text":"可能版本不一樣我們我們應該是我們會遵照大院來進行會遵照大院因為你們你們今天這個印出來的報告可能你們後來是還有更新還是怎麼樣所以舊的報告是沒有寫到是不是"},{"start":709.861,"end":731.975,"text":"跟委員報告 我們現在報告是有更新在17月我們已經有把大院通過11月14號三讀通過的內容放進去我今天這份 我這個報告是我早上來委員會的時候拿的可是我們手上的是有更新過的我們確實已經把我來簽到的時候拿到這個好 所以你們有改你們會遵照大院的這個修法對不對是好 OK 因為我要告訴部長其實這真的"},{"start":733.664,"end":748.332,"text":"讓民怨四起啊本席在民間的時候大家也聽到說什麼山野光電板水野光電板海野光電板都覺得說環境部到底在做什麼我知道你前面有講過你們希望討論所以但是本席要告訴你們的意思就是說在"},{"start":748.812,"end":768.047,"text":"能源轉型的過程當中就是發生一大堆的弊案重生而且過去環境部多次的說要修研要去重新檢討環評的標準才導致現在我們要去不得不透過修法在母法上面給你們這樣子的一個更上位的法令要求你們嚴格去執行"},{"start":769.068,"end":784.308,"text":"所以部長這個部分希望你們可以尊重大院的決議不過我也期待就是說大院在決定那個量子的時候因為委員我們40幾個在執法裡面現在全部落到母法之後這變成一個很特別的一個特例"},{"start":784.748,"end":812.996,"text":"那黃國昌召委他其實在大院的時候也說那個數值可以來大家來討論可是我很遺憾的那個沒有經過太多的討論部長因為你們研議研議又再研議研議了非常的久本席在這裡聽到多次的質詢你們在研議的過程中就開始有很多的業者不斷的要增大加大他的開發這不得不逼著大院必須要儘速的修法要求環境部好好的落實不要再破壞我們的國土尤其在敏感區域"},{"start":813.578,"end":814.405,"text":"谢谢部长谢谢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}