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各位委員長今天很高興來大院報告中央醫院的業務狀況首先我們就近期的業務重點做個摘述其餘請各位參見我們的書面報告下一張"},{"start":2308.789,"end":2319.314,"text":"首先我們在幾個禮拜前宣布我們攜手國內頂尖的學者組成下世代太陽能電池的研發團隊已經成功開發轉換效率超過31%的下世代疊層式的鈣態礦細基的太陽能電池元件"},{"start":2328.458,"end":2354.949,"text":"这个对未来升级太阳能发电装置非常有帮助也是首次国内的团队能够突破这么高的转换率的限制那我们正在与太阳能电池制造商携手成立台湾叠层太阳能电池研发联盟希望能共同开发可商品化的叠层太阳能电池材料与元件提升台湾绿色产业的价值下一张"},{"start":2356.175,"end":2384.497,"text":"在树立组的重要研究成果方面环变中心与美国17大学及其他的非盈利组织共同研究西北大西洋沿岸鲨鱼体内的永久性化学物质研究数据将有助于制定与改善PFAS相关的海域污染及食安规范地球科学研究所与国立中正大学合作发展新的台湾造山模型重现台湾造山带复杂的构造"},{"start":2385.509,"end":2401.964,"text":"天文及天文物理研究所利用高效能運算主機經歷兩年多的密集運算成功建立全球第一個二維多波段輻射流體模型為理解超新星振波閃光的物理機制提供全新的視角"},{"start":2404.564,"end":2422.143,"text":"環變中心設計多組數值模擬實驗深入探討氣候變遷對空氣品質的影響在全球暖化二度C的情境下探討PM2.5濃度的空間變異性化學研究所與國立陽明交通大學合作"},{"start":2423.084,"end":2434.635,"text":"成功開發一種基於導電高分子的梯度介面建構技術可用於各種生物電子晶片也可用於視網膜退化性疾病及視神經病變視網膜神經細胞修復"},{"start":2440.353,"end":2465.547,"text":"量子密碼的研究團隊探討一種新型的密碼工具稱為單向謎題在量子計算經典通信模型的重要性這個重要量子密碼學的模型奠定重要的理論基礎下一張在生命組的近期重要研究成果方面生物醫學研究所發現慢性疼痛會活化"},{"start":2467,"end":2493.352,"text":"丘腦前四膀核中的特定神經元存體那這是大腦的新發現揭示了慢性疼痛的感覺與情緒的來源生物多樣性中心發現無害菌縮具有在腸道中代謝黃體素的能力那這個無害菌縮導致口腹黃體質失效這個也是成為一個不孕症治療的一個新的契機"},{"start":2495.149,"end":2514.316,"text":"分子生物研究所与国立台湾大学日本国立遗传研究所合作改善了癌症化疗的新方向利用蛋白质一个蛋白质叫做HURP的蛋白质与Beta微管蛋白结合提供癌症细胞抗药性的新的一个基转下一张"},{"start":2515.602,"end":2541.613,"text":"生醫所同樣的也研發可釋放多種多重免疫治療的益生菌載體達到消滅腫瘤及提升抗癌免疫力的效果細胞與個體生物研究所與西班牙的研究團隊合作研究澎湖獄柱蟲解密海底漆動物與人類共同祖先的發育機制與演化"},{"start":2542.953,"end":2560.172,"text":"分子生物研究所以小鼠为研究对象并利用AI及高透亮影像截取技术打造可观察小鼠全脑神经细胞的高解析度荧光显微影像定位与定量的分析系统下一张"},{"start":2561.923,"end":2572.711,"text":"在人文組方面,十一所的陳正國研究員出版了《什麼是思想史》的一個專書回顧近百年來英語世界思想史研究的演變"},{"start":2574.229,"end":2596.979,"text":"近代史研究所陳冠任駐研究員他出版了一本叫做《繪製美國在東亞的冷戰海圖》包括主權、區域利益與國際安全專書透過對西太平洋地區深入的研究揭示海洋地緣政治價值與美國及東亞決策者戰略考量之間的緊密關聯性"},{"start":2599.143,"end":2618.696,"text":"經濟所陳明郎研究員發表了生命循環模型人力資本投資下的最適稅制他從經濟學的角度出發探討在生命週期模型下如何設計最優的稅收政策我想這本書對現在我們跟美國的談判應該非常有幫助"},{"start":2621.328,"end":2640.01,"text":"人文社会科学中心的陈一中研究员出版了《马克思从共和主义到共产主义》这本专书,透过对马克思文本的细致分析,并将其置于更广阔的政治与思想史脉络中进行考察,深入剖析马克思思想的形成与发展过程。"},{"start":2640.771,"end":2654.116,"text":"歐美所吳建輝研究員出版《台灣與中國之間的外交關係轉換,經濟與社會影響》論文集,透過深入分析台灣與中國在全球範圍內的競爭,揭示兩岸關係的複雜性與多樣性。"},{"start":2659.369,"end":2685.752,"text":"社會所的汪洪倫研究員發表了轉型正義轉化式對話與公民審議探索和和解共生的可能性他從社會學的角度探討台灣的轉型正義問題指出台灣的轉型正義不僅涉及政治制度的改革更涉及到集體記憶的重建我們在原住民研究方面"},{"start":2686.906,"end":2712.877,"text":"我們與原住民族實驗學校合作共同製作數位學習教案112年完成前導課程懸殷探秘口黃情文化的教育共鳴我們也與原住民部落合作提供數位學習資源將部落文化以數位形式展示給世界讓大眾認識並尊重原住民的歷史和文化下一張"},{"start":2716.636,"end":2736.245,"text":"我們在AI推廣及應用方面我們成立了AI推動辦公室下面設了AI合作社與AI風險研究小組等編組推出AI創新研究計畫並且致力於智慧化行政革新並且我們在全方位培育AI的人才下一張"},{"start":2740.171,"end":2746.948,"text":"我們的團隊也在過去幾個月內得到許多重要的學術獎項"},{"start":2748.858,"end":2771.073,"text":"譬如說在教育部的學術獎,今年我們有六名研究人員得到教育部學術獎為近年之最,其中包括人文及藝術類的語言所齊麗莎研究員、社會科學類經濟所徐金研究員及陳明郎研究員,在同一個所同時獲得兩個教育部學術獎是非常難能可貴的。"},{"start":2772.074,"end":2792.237,"text":"数学及自然科学类天文所的李景慧特批研究员及数学所的于家富研究员得到了学术奖生物及医农科学类生医所的谢庆和特批研究员拿到学术奖我们也拿到16位的国科会杰出奖这也都是非常难能可贵的一个表现"},{"start":2793.103,"end":2816.651,"text":"那我们在有七名研究员拿到国科会一一三年杰出特约研究员之外我们有两位院士得到国际大奖及紫微所的无质量助研究员深度中心林国勤特聘研究员也分别得到的这个欧洲这个生物分子生物学组织全球研究学者及德国马里奥马库斯的科学奖那下一位"},{"start":2818.359,"end":2843.067,"text":"我們也致力於推展國際合作 深化國際交流在上個月我們也率團去英國訪問 拜訪了英國皇家科學院及British Academy 及UK Biobank還有一些重要的學術單位 包括劍橋大學 牛津大學等等進行雙邊的交流"},{"start":2845.25,"end":2862.591,"text":"我們也預計今年首度舉辦中研學術大會今年下半年也會跟世界和平基金會共同舉辦台灣橋樑計畫邀請二十多位諾貝爾獎得主來台灣訪問我們在今年五月也會舉辦台灣研究世界大會"},{"start":2866.642,"end":2888.633,"text":"我們也致力於培植下世代科研人才我們推出中業學者計劃每年以穩定的研究經費支持大學的研究人員我們也推出了博士生獎助金方案到目前為止有700位博士生受惠每月得到4到5萬元的獎學金"},{"start":2891.505,"end":2903.615,"text":"此外我們也推出人文社會科學的博士等精英獎學金到目前為止有16位獲獎者剩下的我們就請各位參考我們的書面報告謝謝大家"},{"start":2910.596,"end":2920.786,"text":"謝謝 謝謝我們中央研究院廖院長的口頭報告那我們現在進行詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘 必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘"},{"start":2924.79,"end":2947.987,"text":"发言登记截止时间为上午11点30分委员如果临时提案请于上午10点30分前提出并与本会委员李锦本席质询结束后即进行处理处理提案时若提案委员及联署委员均不在场原例不予处理首先我们请发言登记第一位林沛翔委员质询"},{"start":2960.047,"end":2965.871,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進 有請廖院長好 有請廖院長林委員長"},{"start":2971.121,"end":2993.162,"text":"院長早安首先我想先請問一下我在報告中有看到我們的南部園區已經成立了所謂的關鍵議題研究中心那聚焦在所謂的這個量子科技海洋能太陽能的電池等領域那基隆因為我是基隆的區域立委那我們也會希望說像這方面的科技"},{"start":2993.622,"end":3008.102,"text":"這科研的資源能夠延展延展到基隆尤其我記得在前瞻計畫裡面曾經有提過這個基隆河谷廊帶的開發計畫那未來可能有一方面來講的話好像有一個生計園區有可能在這個整個工業園"},{"start":3009.083,"end":3032.708,"text":"公園區從這個內科南软這邊直接再延伸到基隆港來那這一點來講的話就請問中研院是否有計畫將南部院區的研究成果與基隆的海洋科技研究資源來做結合譬如說是否考慮在基隆設立所謂海洋能的研究基地來推動黑潮發電的技術在地應用請院長解釋"},{"start":3037.109,"end":3053.377,"text":"謝謝林委員的質詢事實上我們在海洋能的方面已經跟國立海洋大學商談過幾次我們將與國立海洋大學及其他相關的大學合作"},{"start":3054.017,"end":3078.408,"text":"共同在南部院區研發不同形式的海洋能不見得是黑草因為黑草不在基隆那邊所以其他形式的海洋能發電有些是比較適合基隆附近的那部分海洋大學已經做了相當多我們會跟他們持續合作至於未來要怎麼樣把南部院區的研究能量"},{"start":3079.168,"end":3104.749,"text":"擴展到其他地方我們會持續考量那當然基隆是一個可能的選項因為我這點剛剛院長也提到如果既然已經有個海洋大學因為本席正在海洋大學任教雖然我是在這個航運管理的跟我們海洋發電的領域不相不相同但是我們還是很希望能夠看到說中研院有我們的科技研究的資源能夠往基隆這邊發展"},{"start":3106.73,"end":3119.214,"text":"那請問中研院是否有計畫去跟基隆的海洋大學建立所謂跨區域的合作平台來共同推動整個海洋能跟量子科技的應用研究呢"},{"start":3119.854,"end":3142.999,"text":"這當然是可以討論可以思考的方向那我們先從這個目前已經有的跟海洋大學合作的一些面向從這邊開始那主要是海洋的能量的開發的研究那這方面那我們也在南部園區有一個海洋的研究室那這詳細我是請了觀念中心主任來回答一下"},{"start":3144.299,"end":3169.843,"text":"委員好 我是關鍵中心主任李超黃那麼目前在南部縣區我們設立一個台灣海洋核心參數的這個設施那麼基本上是開放給全國的海洋研究的團隊使用那個是跟國科會合作的所以就是不只是南部或者是基隆只要是全國參與海洋研究的我們都可以提供這個設施的服務那跟海洋大學的合作就是剛剛院長講的我很快"},{"start":3170.403,"end":3193.918,"text":"會跟他好幾個學院跟系所來簽訂合作的MOU那麼會挑選最適合的方向很快就會開始推動合作謝謝好 謝謝您的解釋那另外一方面我也想問因為我還是在注重在我們基隆這邊需要的一些有些滿足一些基隆上面產業上的需求那我們其實很知道說中研院在我們AI技術剛剛我看到專案報告上面"},{"start":3194.298,"end":3209.539,"text":"也有在講到我們在AI技術的研發跟應用上面是獲得有顯著的成果的但是如果說AI的應用不能把它落實到產業上面來幫助我們的傳統產業的轉型的話那很可惜這個可能價值性就不足"},{"start":3210.04,"end":3228.744,"text":"那我們基隆的傳統產業像是漁業也好觀光業也好正被你所謂轉型的壓力尤其是說像是我知道說其他國家好像美國吧好像有利用這個AI的技術跟AI的大數據各方面的研究來去幫忙他們去做這個漁群的"},{"start":3229.484,"end":3255.063,"text":"雲群的偵測分析還有預測那這方面來講我覺得我可能就比較少看到說我們台灣這方面有實際上的應用那我覺得以一個科技大國以一個自詡為科技大國來講這點是蠻可惜的那我就想請問中研院是否願意跟基隆市政府跟基隆的漁業界合作將AI技術應用在漁業資源的管理甚至觀光行銷的領域上面來幫助我們基隆的產業來升級呢"},{"start":3256.449,"end":3272.866,"text":"我想我們在AI應用上陳如委員講AI最可貴最重要就是要怎麼樣落地那除了在比較這個高端的科技產業之外更是這個傳統產業百工百業都需要運到AI那短時間我們會找比較"},{"start":3273.707,"end":3297.369,"text":"資源比較多所謂資源就是有許多的數據資源比較多才能做AI訓練所以我們從這方面探討看假如說漁業方面有很多數據那當然也是很好的一個方向但我們還不確定說這方面數據是否足夠來做現在AI運用不過委員提到這一點我們會去探討看說是不是可以用這個方向確實這是可以用的話是非常好的應用方向"},{"start":3298.19,"end":3313.774,"text":"因為為什麼會特地提到漁群的事情是我了解說好像是美國氣象跟海洋研究的機構好像已經他們已經在很積極的去做這方面的事情而且有些成果那我會很直觀的認為如果"},{"start":3316.255,"end":3336.45,"text":"如果美國有就代表這個用AI來去做來去做預測跟觀測魚群的技術就已經相對來講比較成熟了那其實像這樣的技術如果我們台灣如果可以的話接觸研究或者是發展出來屬於我們台灣屬於我們自己的一個不同的技術或不同的方式也是對我們整體來講是會有很大的幫助"},{"start":3338.311,"end":3354.043,"text":"好那再來我想請教一下就是有關說我們中研院其實在我們國際學術界的影響一直都是很重要的甚至這個Academic Sinica這個是在全世界都很有名的但是我們在全球老實講現在這個昨天財經"},{"start":3356.465,"end":3368.909,"text":"昨天降關稅今天又鎖起來這件事情導致說現在全世界都人心惶惶但人心惶惶另外一方面來講美國現在也在大幅度的在減少高等教育的這個經費那這一點來講的話我們是不是當然他們"},{"start":3371.77,"end":3390.181,"text":"Someone's loss is our gain如果說在這方面來講台灣在科技在科研競爭當中我們現在人才還是在流失有資源不足的挑戰那請問我們中研院有沒有什麼具體的策略來吸引現在看起來美國這邊的人現在我知道Columbia好像被砍了不少錢Columbia跟Yale被砍了不少錢"},{"start":3391.041,"end":3405.167,"text":"那有沒有具體策略趁他們現在可能對高等教育沒有那麼專注的時候我們來吸引國際頂尖人才來台把台灣打造出來是另外一個亞太地區的科研樞紐呢好 謝謝委員質詢我們最近確實推了一個計畫我們請國際處孟處長來介紹"},{"start":3409.248,"end":3426.087,"text":"林委員我們剛剛推出一個計畫就是要把台灣的優秀學生留在本國來念博士班尤其是今年他們已經申請了美國學校但是因為種種原因沒有辦法去那我們現在推出一個快速讓他們入學的博士班計畫那已經上線了"},{"start":3426.587,"end":3445.68,"text":"而且昨天已經有學生來詢問我可以問說是哪方面的領域嗎就是本院有13個博士班學生涵蓋數理跟生命科學總共有13個不同的領域所以說我們現在有沒有機會說去挖一些不是只有把本國人留下來把一些外國"},{"start":3447.221,"end":3462.973,"text":"這個我們持續會進行因為要挖角已經事業有成的教授那需要長時間的接觸那不是短時間所以我們會持續進行這方面也陸續聽到"},{"start":3465.074,"end":3489.25,"text":"在美國的有些教授對美國的環境有所維持那在這個狀況之下我們會保持跟他合作保持跟他吸引他們是不是可以短期來台灣從短期變成中期從中期變成長期來台灣從這方向來做那比較快比較直接的就是把現在申請到美國學校但是"},{"start":3490.15,"end":3517.794,"text":"種種原因沒有辦法去或是覺得那邊環境不好或是被這個收回這個emission的這些學生能夠再趕快來中央醫院甚至台灣其他學校這也是很好我們留住這個學生的機會除了留住學生我們可以利用這個機會擴展到吸引國際學生所以我們剛才孟柱講這個計畫不只是台灣學生國際學生也是一樣譬如說其他國際學生申請到美國學校"},{"start":3518.174,"end":3544.988,"text":"因為總統的原因他們認為美國不再適合了那我們說沒關係那台灣可能很適合你那請你來申請我們這學校所以我們也特別放寬了一些時間來吸引這些人我會認為啊就是說人力資本這邊來講人才資本這Human Capital這件事情是一個國力最直接的最直接的保障如果說有良質的Human Capital在每個領域尤其在研發領域的話"},{"start":3546.409,"end":3562.595,"text":"基本上這是個國力增長的象徵尤其是說美國之強就是因為說他當初海納百川現在川普可能反其道而行但是我剛才講過their loss is our gain他們的失去搞不好就是我們加分的時候"},{"start":3563.355,"end":3582.67,"text":"所以這個時候 如果中研院能夠做到一個起頭的作用把一些最頂尖的人才往我們台灣往我們中華民國身上靠 身上收集的話我覺得這會對我們未來會有直接的幫助是是是好 謝謝院長謝謝委員好 謝謝林沛翔委員院長請回我們接下來請柯之恩委員謝謝莊委 我們現在就請院長好 有請廖院長"},{"start":3595.677,"end":3624.155,"text":"各位委员早院长早明年六月你大概就是任期期满了所以应该是在现在谢谢好像说完一口气要数馒头了所以距离今年六月的时候你们应该就开始成立的院长的临选委员会应该没错吧应该提前一年有个院长临选委员会我们还是希望他还是能够来秉持一个公正公开的原则不要像你上任之前有一堆的风风雨雨有一些政治因素的一个介入我们还是希望能够"},{"start":3625.075,"end":3639.53,"text":"也很平顺因为相对于你欧情院长跟你比起来的话你的平和没有涉入政治等等来说应该还给中研院一个比较公平干净的一个空间这是一个期许好大家不用担心我的问题到此结束来"},{"start":3641.691,"end":3666.336,"text":"不要愿意还是锁定在这个院长啊你在全国的校长会议里面提到我觉得你讲的东西非常的有道理啊就是台湾学术界都是跟社会脱钩而且制度偏重防弊解决问题对社会贡献才是有一个最大的一个目标所以不要去看论文的排名这是你当初所提到的嘛在全国校长会议我想很多人都深有同感而且您说要走出苏氏圈院长我真的要说啊"},{"start":3666.676,"end":3692.602,"text":"你走出舒适圈这句话让很多院长很感慨因为中研院一定是所有人大家最羡慕的目标好不好各位你们几乎已经如果要做学术的话中研院绝对是一个大家非常向往的地方我现在要请问的就是当你提到这句话的时候其实你有反映在你们中研院内部的一些升等制度上面吗我们来看一下中研院的这个所谓的升等标准里面来看其实呢第六条里面"},{"start":3693.542,"end":3705.343,"text":"paper的产量虽然说你们认为要研究价值里面的部分要对这个社会的问题的解决等等但是无可厚非的还是在这个paper的产量来说这点院长应该不否认吧"},{"start":3706.311,"end":3725.308,"text":"喔 對不起 這個好像不是這樣解釋的好 那請說我們希望說在審查的時候不要單以paper的數量甚至我期許這個審查的時候不要side這個到底發了多少paper而是要講說這邊paper做了什麼貢獻"},{"start":3726.189,"end":3753.443,"text":"是但是呢这就是我要问的嘛这是所有人都要问的因为我刚刚说你讲这句话深有同感但是所有的学界要说应该展现透过学术研究的成果来影响他人的可能性你如何来界定这个所谓的影响力而且你考核多久才有目前为止看不到我十年后才看得到这个部分你如何来界定因为这个就是中研院所以我们特别调出来看看你所东西有没有办法反映在你们自己院内的生存制度上面"},{"start":3754.083,"end":3769.715,"text":"這考核上面我們是強調有兩個部分一個是客觀的證據就是您所提的說你怎麼樣求證另外一方面我們更要強調是要主觀的判斷身為一個學者特別是做音樂的學者應該有主觀的判斷說我認為這個是好的或者我認為這個還沒有達標所以我們要強調這個方向"},{"start":3775.719,"end":3797.592,"text":"我觉得我还是很希望能够更具体的方法特别是对于社会社会贡献的东西到底如何来界定因为任何东西都要有一个量化的方法从主观的一个判断那我们就要看看你说的你这些的升等的领选的小组里面到底又是如何这才是为什么我们在大学里面大家很难突破这一点你讲的都非常的好可是十几年来"},{"start":3798.152,"end":3824.724,"text":"大学没有办法因为在没有办法看出他这个contribution特别是social这个部分里面的时候我们只好很被迫要用量的方法来做一个处理所以这叫慢慢的推动当然是所以说我说十年你已经解出来但是这个真的要把它落实其实非常困难所以我们期望在这个中原的部分能够引申作则然后特别是我还是要强调为什么要这么讲因为我们政府目前很多的经费我已经不断在讲技术发展的部分是45%应用研究是20%"},{"start":3827.825,"end":3851.293,"text":"真正到基础研究已经降到虽然说这个资源好像是有多但是你知道这个比例来说特别是基础研究相对于过去来说其实政府投资的比例是低的所以在这个原则之下面你怎么会认为大家会认为说我应该就是好好来来这边而且是对社会有贡献我觉得这个部分是政府的做法跟我们所希望达到的"},{"start":3851.573,"end":3873.515,"text":"这个东西是还是有一个落差的好吧希望说政府要加强这个当然是这个样子啊可是要数据就可以告诉你啊那特别是提到这个学术的交流我也刚刚看到你有提到的就是说有一篇在社会人文著作当中你有特别提到台湾跟中国之间的外交的关系但是呢我要请问一下院长啊之前教育部虽然你不归教育管但是教育部来管"},{"start":3874.136,"end":3886.64,"text":"然後呢但是你知道他也嚴格的限制了幾個學校是未來是完全是禁止的完全是禁止的但是呢這幾個禁止的學校裡面其實有社會人文跟這個領域裡面當中我想請問院長我也調出來了我們來看一下這其實有很多是不錯的學校中研院跟中國大陸具有他們所調列的黨政軍的學校的交流狀況其實也有不少院長你認為是跟他們交流裡面你真的就會被統戰嗎"},{"start":3899.72,"end":3916.928,"text":"我們的交流裡面大部分都是研究人員主動跟對方一起合作的項目這方面我們具體的交流的方式跟經驗我們沒有說控管很清楚所以這方面至於說"},{"start":3918.108,"end":3941.238,"text":"所以你会follow教育部的脚步吗因为这几个学校里面包括这个哈尔滨工程大学南京航太如果你要做这个领域的话他们其实彼此之间做学术上面的一个交流过去到现在我们也做过很多的学术交流我不觉得我过去会认为我会被他们做什么样的一个影响你认为中研院要follow这个教育部的脚步跟这十个学校过去也跟你们教的学校也完全禁止吗任何部分都禁止吗"},{"start":3942.018,"end":3967.897,"text":"這部分我們中研院做的比較少這個航空或工業不是 我是說你會follow教育部的腳步禁止跟這十個學校來做部分嗎這是教育部中研院呢我們要follow政府的規定只要政府有規定我們只好就這樣做但是你贊同嗎那我們要看裡面的內容裡面內容就是你問過嘛所有的你們去過學術教的部分純粹就是在這個學術的裡面來做這個層面嘛"},{"start":3969.698,"end":3985.572,"text":"这七个学校我们的交流我不觉得很多所以你们虽然不归教育部管你是归总统府来管所以你认为未来在这个学术的交流部分里面你们就尽量往别的地方去而不跟这十个学校来做更进一步的一个流动"},{"start":3986.252,"end":3992.395,"text":"不是這個怎麼做是要看說我們怎麼樣避免跟人家交流所產生的壞處不會有的不是不會有就是你們中研院每個人在做學術部分我相信都會恪守學術上面的一個原則對我個人來說"},{"start":4002.521,"end":4024.917,"text":"我们都认为在做交流的部分纯粹就是在做不同的就是很单纯那个学术只是因为他们后面有党政军的一个色彩然后呢就影响这个部分我觉得就像你说的还是看交流内涵的一个层面而不是从一个具体的一个什么学校里面就完全是否定这样子的过去的一些研究上面的一个配合跟合作这是我要强调的好不好"},{"start":4026.218,"end":4053.539,"text":"然后呢接下来我还是要特别提到了有关于核能的部分因为你现在是我们和环境变迁的这个小组当中的其中的一员然后呢你也不断的认为说核能当然是有这个优点也有一个缺点然后呢中研院其实也已经特别提到有关于核安的问题你特别提到了你们对于第三plus代跟第四代在这个核分裂的反应磁器的安全度上你们认为其实是应该蛮安全的但是呢我再进这没有错吧"},{"start":4055.187,"end":4083.074,"text":"是否安全因为我们不是这个主管机关我们没有办法到现场去查核我们是就研究的层面我们是说技术上是可以把它变成很安全那是否我们现在的现有的技术上可以变安全所以说你有给政府技术是可行但是都还没有开始做因为我后面再特别去调有关于你们中研院的一个计划你们现在告诉我你们没有这样子的完全没有未来也不讨论未来也不考虑"},{"start":4083.994,"end":4096.279,"text":"因為我們沒有這樣的人才所以沒有辦法這樣做對所以你們沒有辦法在這一塊多做一些的一個貢獻然後我們特別提到的但是有關於減碳目標我看你們有環境變遷的小組我剛剛看了一下很顯然並沒有往這一方面來做因為"},{"start":4102.202,"end":4114.419,"text":"我们过去来说我问过你你认为2030年有没有办法达到减碳你认为有点困难那赖总统还特别提到又提出一个2035的目标来做一个接轨院长以你目前来看是不是还是很困难"},{"start":4116.043,"end":4132.722,"text":"現在國際情勢瞬息萬變股票從川普昨天不到幾個小時當中完全大翻轉萬變所以我想我們要預測未來減碳會多少是非常困難的但是我們要強調說減碳是長期目標"},{"start":4134.844,"end":4162.925,"text":"你决定长期目标但是以你目前来去看你就有这样的一个机会从2030你说没有可能2035你要看看在美国在巴西他们都提出了这样子的一个方式看到巴西在减碳这是他们的目标美国甚至认为要再减61%到66%以你目前的这个预估因为你毕竟在这个小组当中你也某种程度呼应了童子贤董事长的一个说法所以你认为2035来说的话你觉得机会大不大"},{"start":4163.41,"end":4179.484,"text":"我想我們不是談20 重點不是要短期我們一再強調重點是要長期我們把它減碳因為最新的研究至少這個越來越多的研究資料顯示全世界最糟的狀況不是在2030不是2035也不是2050是2075到"},{"start":4183.507,"end":4189.291,"text":"到二零八五二零九五因為那個時候是真正全人類的最大危機所以嘛我只問你嘛我只問你嘛你當初很明確的說二零三零對台灣來說是有點困難即使再延後五年很顯然這樣一個目標只是我們的目標要實際做到還有非常多條件的配合這點你應該是可以同意吧那要看怎麼做嘛那當然是你講以目前的做法來看的話我個人覺得"},{"start":4207.483,"end":4225.577,"text":"我觉得是有点困难我们光是在讨论这些部分朝野之间其实没有太大的一个讨论空间任何的议题里面只要被卡上一个到底要不要恢复核能核能到底是如何我们都已经没有空间我觉得这是我们在这个部分里面在讨论的时候其实我个人认为颇为"},{"start":4226.798,"end":4244.087,"text":"难过的一个部分因为我们没有太多正向可以合理思考的空间最后我只用30秒的时间我还是要提醒院长一下因为中研院也是有AI推动的办公室里面也成立了几个不同的一个面向我刚刚看到你的简报但是我还是要提醒很重要的一点就是有关于AI"},{"start":4244.707,"end":4248.409,"text":"他目前為止已經從國科會目前可能是速發部要來做這樣的一個處理但是呢很多我們認為在AN基本法裡面應該最需要的就是有關於法律授權還有規範基本的權的評估目前為止我們目前為在這部法裡面是空缺的我只是期許因為我們中研院有非常多的不管是學界法界業界裡面你們都可以跨領域來做這個部分所以呢中研院應該"},{"start":4272,"end":4272.36,"text":"好 谢谢提醒谢谢"},{"start":4301.084,"end":4306.405,"text":"好 謝謝柯之恩委員 院長請回我們接下來請劉書斌委員好 謝謝趙偉 那有請趙俊志院長好 有請廖院長劉委員早"},{"start":4325.936,"end":4342.77,"text":"好 院長好喔對於說您昨天呢提出來的這個中研院的一個這個書面的報告看到非常的詳細事實上先給一些讚許那尤其是在我們現在下一頁中研院的功能在網羅傑出人才社方面呢我們可以看到有很多的部分的"},{"start":4343.47,"end":4363.941,"text":"特點往下一頁在這邊看到的是有對於潛力的優秀人才跟這個國際生還有在國內的部分都有非常多的這樣子的把重點放在所謂的新的研究人員的這樣的培育我覺得這邊是非常肯定的然後還包括在人文社會領域的這樣子的一個體現要人文素養是好的事情"},{"start":4365.402,"end":4374.129,"text":"那這當然是呈現出來是最高的一個學術研究機構他的一個態度這邊呈現出這種嚴謹認真的這個狀況但是我們想要看的是在下一頁這邊我們是根據我們立法院的預算中心他在對中研院的114年的學術"},{"start":4384.957,"end":4409.451,"text":"單位預算的評估報告當中特別是針對延攬傑出學者的任職還有博士後的培育這部分當中發現出現到實際值遠低於目標值的這個狀況特別是在大家看到113年的這部分有個目標值是10但是實際上到位只有一個人這樣的情形那還包括是剛才說的這個博士後的培育當中那過院知不知道原因我們發預算中心發給這樣的一個報告你們知道原因是什麼嗎"},{"start":4414.373,"end":4435.621,"text":"這個延攬資深學人的部分假如我們延攬成功非常成功我們就不需要用到這筆錢因為變成人事費會變成這樣子就不成功就一半成功他來這個part time才會用到這個情況所以過去幾年我們事實上延攬的許多優秀的所長中心主任"},{"start":4436.181,"end":4464.246,"text":"很多在做我們都變成人事費所以就不會用到這筆經費但是我們仍然需要變一些以備萬一所以需要有用到的時候但是我的意思是說原因為什麼會這個狀況是什麼困難度我重點是在這裡這個是以備萬一的時候這不是困難度並不是說我們一定要用到這個等於是真的做很成功我們真正的目標是要把它延攬回來變成我們專職人員就用人事費來聘僱好 那如果這樣的情況之下您的原因是說就是先"},{"start":4465.256,"end":4471.158,"text":"妥善的放著在這邊需求的時候剛好時機配合了就會進來對不對但是我們在下一頁貴院在回覆到我們本院的預算報告的這張張出就是你們把這邊部分等等的都說一說出來了然後就是說還是需要說進行會議支持不過我們在112年的時候整預算的時候醫法院根本沒有"},{"start":4489.284,"end":4495.868,"text":"沒有去審沒有去刪也沒有去動113年這個經費那您的理由如果是說了這個清楚的話呢那還要再繼續增加經費那這個餘額就還存在的情況還要再增加經費事實上也不是這麼合理的沒有 我們沒有增加沒有 我們都是逐年減少我們這個部分已經逐年減少了沒句話 我們是逐年減少了"},{"start":4507.694,"end":4525.631,"text":"沒有沒有 我們現在看到114 你還是在商業你看到還是10個人喔這部分那是目標值 但前數我們是逐年減少因為我們希望說這個你們便利的預算是是都有在增加啦 那今年我覺得要等一下沒有沒有 預算沒有增加"},{"start":4526.712,"end":4548.446,"text":"等一下我們大概看到如果再往下看的話會講到預算的問題不過我想這部分我想要特別在預算的部分就是在於說您特別也來在我就任的時候後來有來做拜訪在這邊就是說今年我會呈現出來今年是一個特別的年是第一次有三檔不過半那你們這部分在預算上面在下一頁其實可以看到說是你們的部分特別在"},{"start":4549.567,"end":4556.717,"text":"國外的旅費啊 國內旅費當中這些都是統刪這一部分 不得留用不過因為蔡英文總統她有提到的是說她在當在野黨主席的時候啦她是有提到說其實3到20都沒有問題那10%的時候是都很用所以這邊就是"},{"start":4564.568,"end":4593.067,"text":"在這期間我可以提升到這是一個特殊的情形大家我們知道國家的科研預算等等是必須要去做的那我這邊也是說特別檢討民眾黨的立場那我們繼續往下看的時候再進一段我想要再下來一個部分就是說你們有在報告當中特別提出來說中研院有辦一個角色就是四個棒接力賽從基礎研究到產業的合作這部分特別是指責到這幾個部分那我在想請問是不是在"},{"start":4594.088,"end":4621.859,"text":"目前的中研院的這個活動當中有沒有真的是已經到達像這個四個階段到基礎研究到大學產研到工研院到給業界使用的部分可不可以舉一個例子來設別在這裡這是我們最新研發出來的高效太陽能光電全部國產的機器國內的實驗室由中研院召集國內的最精英的學者專家昨天出爐的30%"},{"start":4624.56,"end":4644.773,"text":"這個轉換率全部用國產的設備國產的細機那我們除了中文音樂研究之外也召集了至少五間大學的教授也跟業界合作我們接下來也要跟業界成立這個產研聯盟一起來做這方面的技術"},{"start":4645.493,"end":4666.347,"text":"好 那這樣很好 我看到有這樣的一個成就有在發展然後我們繼續往下看 我想要另外談到因為您也是身兼 這個部分我想這個部分我們就先調過去了重點是說因為您也身兼到氣候變遷的對策小組裡面的副召集人那淨零碳排這些部分 有一個部分是在去碳燃氫"},{"start":4667.568,"end":4687.915,"text":"那這邊的部分我們在往下面看的時候就看到是說它有技術性的部分這部分也就是中研院可能在進行的那第二個部分可能我想要談到的我從人文社會出發在講的是說也有部分就是在所謂碳費的這一些部分它必須要去支持還有另外一部分是在於說在下面兩頁的時候可以看到它有涉及到的是"},{"start":4688.635,"end":4696.321,"text":"有一個在下一頁可以看到的是說呢他有說建立公民社會組織參與這個社會溝通平台那請問一下中研院有沒有對說說因為人們還是支持這些碳費碳費或碳稅這些的支持還有說公民的這個參與平台請問在人文社會處這一部分社會組這邊有沒有針對這個部分有一些的有些相關的研究"},{"start":4710.433,"end":4729.733,"text":"有 我們在這個淨零計畫當中其中有一支是委託社會所林宗鴻研究員做一些社會溝通 社會調查他對各種淨零政策的對民眾的接受度 民眾的意向等等做了相當深入的研究所以這邊是有的"},{"start":4730.595,"end":4733.456,"text":"那會發生什麼效果會有一個時程表就是推促進我們的尤其是你在當副召集人是不是可以提出來說讓我們政府在這邊在碳稅上面符合國際的這個標準等等的這些部分有沒有一個行動的計畫等等碳稅至於碳稅碳費的部分目前好像據我了解還沒有做到這一個部分因為"},{"start":4752.423,"end":4761.954,"text":"那個跟一般民眾稍微一點距離比較跟產業界比較接近所以這部分未來我們會納入但是目前好像還沒有到這個地步"},{"start":4762.911,"end":4788.463,"text":"那我就希望您在作為對策小組的副召集的時候能夠推出這些部分因為2050或是說今年的2026的時候明年2026的時候歐盟的部分這個CBAN就要進行了那下面有個問題就是說您在能源的態度上面因為您在過去的發表聯絡在去年到今年往下的狀況"},{"start":4789.944,"end":4817.742,"text":"特別有呈現出來的說您在對第三代第四代核能等等甚至說您因為說淨零碳排的需求是很重要往下點點點因為我們有好幾篇文章這邊講說都是您曾經考到德國的部分他要不要核能的部分在共識之後也可以得到一些讓核廢料也處理的情況可以讓台灣有更好的安全選擇來去進行好 那這個情況下我想要問的是您再往下一頁"},{"start":4819.023,"end":4843.235,"text":"那您對於這個召集人對能源選項的立場為何那你對台灣有本錢放棄核能嗎我想這個一個政策一個能源政策要推動有四個面向第一個是科技的面向那我們是緊究科技面向來探討說核能方面科技面向是可以做的那剩下來看是不是合經濟效益這部分恐怕要經濟部或相關單位來判斷"},{"start":4846.457,"end":4873.448,"text":"接下來要政治方面是不是可行社會可不可以接受這就完全不是中央醫院可以智慧的地方所以我們是緊就這個科技方面提出我們的意見然後希望社會能夠接下來進行看說社會的接受度那您的立場呢我們在立場是認為說在科技方面我們儘量利用科技解決社會的疑慮利用科技解決政治上的困難"},{"start":4874.008,"end":4884.515,"text":"利用科技降低所以在科技沒有問題的情況之下核能是一個好的選項是嗎是的我們要引進新的科技把現在即使是認為我們認為說現在的我們既有的核能設備有點老舊即使我們將來假如經過檢查還需要改善我們應該引進新的科技幫他改善"},{"start":4898.024,"end":4907.514,"text":"好那往下一部分可是我們的環境基本法當中有提到往下往下核能基本法的環境基本法這邊有提到是說我們要訂定這個達成非核家園的目標氣候變遷因應法當中有提到說要逐步落實非核家園願景那您的看法這邊的話是不是跟剛才的態度一樣"},{"start":4916.463,"end":4932.748,"text":"就已經不是這個科技的面向是我剛才講的是政治跟社會的面向這個就不是中央醫院的專業我們期待說相關單位包括這個全社會人士能夠大家一起努力看凝聚共識怎麼樣再往前走"},{"start":4933.291,"end":4943.316,"text":"好 謝謝廖院長您在整個在能源政策上面提出中研院作為一個最高的學術單位的時候所做的立場好 謝謝廖院長 還有各位謝謝謝謝劉淑冰委員還有院長請回好 我們接下來請葛如君召委"},{"start":4960.739,"end":4964.211,"text":"好 謝謝主席 有請莊園院院長好 有請廖院長"},{"start":4968.325,"end":4995.57,"text":"各位元豪院長好我想在這個會期開始您謝謝有來我們的辦公室來進行拜會那有討論到這次的預算刪減其實我也提到網路上有非常多的抹黑 造謠 假訊息那我們也看到有中研院發信給各個研究員那導致有非常多研究員擔心自己的計劃受影響甚至還有人會擔心失去工作那本席當時也有表示"},{"start":4995.95,"end":5022.087,"text":"因為我們的這個會談內容也都是完全透明的都有逐字稿都有上網那我也表示就是這樣的做法其實有可能會造成恐慌我們希望中央醫院該做的應該是積極面對並且遇到這個問題我們一起來協助同仁來解決並且我們一起來確保未來不會有這樣的一個狀況來發生所以本席想要請教首先第一點這個所謂的預算假設有人受到影響你們現在有一個單一窗口讓大家來回報嗎"},{"start":5026.29,"end":5043.406,"text":"有 我們有這個發信給同仁假如有這個治安難行的部分像學術處 像副院長都可以回報各種不同的狀況 我們都盡力調配這段我們已經盡量在做了其實當時我也表示啦"},{"start":5043.786,"end":5064.975,"text":"就是老實說中央議員的角色應該是要發信請同仁不要擔心而不是說我們遇到了問題你們如果沒問題的不用來找我有問題的個別來找我這會變成什麼解決問題的部分大家都看不到可是恐慌卻蔓延在全院沒有關係我是希望要有一個單一窗口"},{"start":5065.595,"end":5091.583,"text":"不需要各自去找 那找誰 找的效果也不一樣你們有辦法做好統計嗎有哪些人受到影響 有沒有單一窗口回答我 有沒有單一窗口 協助同仁學術處處長陳建璋好 所以大家就是找學術處處長所以這個信件裡面都有提到嗎有 找誰找我啊對 就是找我 我有發信給我們今年有拿到院內的計畫的這些同仁所以您是單一窗口對 他們會找我"},{"start":5094.363,"end":5116.151,"text":"您有沒有公告這個受影響的話單一窗口是您我們這邊的表達是第一我們還是希望中研院應該是要來讓同仁知道說不會有問題中研院會來協助解決解決的單一窗口在這裡這樣的做法可以嗎"},{"start":5117.811,"end":5140.579,"text":"有沒有問題事實上我們院裡面也不會知道因為我們被凍了十二十一年多所以我們儘量我們希望儘量讓同仁不要擔心但你的信送出去是說你們都受到影響沒有關係我們現在就直接來看問題嘛您剛剛提到凍結的案既然這麼重要請問中研院有沒有送解凍報告過來"},{"start":5141.479,"end":5169.052,"text":"好 我們正在進行這個解凍的因為我們要根據立法院決議我們要能夠送出這個預算執行情形不好意思我們這三個單位預算執行情形形我們仍然在進行當中我們院會的時候已經很早就已經決議了總統也已經公告了到現在還在處理零份事實上不只中研院所有的教安委員會的部會一份解凍報告都沒有送進來"},{"start":5169.972,"end":5192.122,"text":"那你們呢 事實上你們的投影片時間裡面送事實上你們也提到嘛就是凍結11億其實只要提出專案報告我們同意就可以解凍我相信我們的林錦昭委也一定會來全力協助因為我們的專業同仁我們都希望不要受到影響我們學術研究很重要嘛那你們如果不提出來我們怎麼有辦法解凍呢我們會提出來"},{"start":5192.722,"end":5213.546,"text":"那什麼時候會提出 很好我們會依規定提出來依規定時間提出來規定是誰規定 您是院長啊所以是誰規定立法院規定的時間提出來欸對不起我們沒有說什麼時候規定送出來喔這一點不好意思喔 院長你講清楚喔這個球不在我們這裡喔所以是林一錦 張偉有跟您規定說是什麼時候要送出來嗎沒有 張偉搖頭啊我們沒有任何規定說什麼時候"},{"start":5221.072,"end":5248.142,"text":"立法院決議是要我們做預算執行情形的報告我們要把預算執行情形再整清楚之後才能夠抓到報告因為總共有十多億我們不能做十頁報告一頁解凍一億所以我們要做詳盡的報告我們有33個所中心就需要一點時間避免出錯所以院長您可不可以收回您剛剛的說法我們沒有規定您什麼時候才能送進來喔"},{"start":5249.302,"end":5273.412,"text":"沒有規定的話我們就要立法院的慣例處理慣例就是ASAPAs soon as possible這是考驗大家的這個團結力量嘛是沒錯那我們也是所以我問您什麼時候可以準備好啊您作為院長你沒有規劃一個時間同仁怎麼來依循呢我們現在預計我們快完成了預計在幾個禮拜之內我們就可以送幾個禮拜之內好幾個禮拜"},{"start":5277.053,"end":5297.265,"text":"兩個禮拜 二十個禮拜 三十個禮拜不會是兩三個禮拜一兩個禮拜到兩三個禮拜就好謝謝 謝謝院長同時喔 其實我也理解啦因為院會的金額真的比較高11億嘛 我們大家都有共識接下來我們的這個我們作為專案報告我們全力來協助但是委員會凍結1250萬只要書面報告就可以解凍為什麼到現在也不交報告"},{"start":5302.228,"end":5322.054,"text":"我們希望說兩個合在一起這一點部分我們確實是有討論過你發信的時候就發到全體同仁然後呢你每一個人你都來說影響你解凍的時候能解的趕快解啊你為什麼突然你講的好像很緊張結果呢你處理的時候能先處理的為什麼不先處理呢那個可以處理部分的金額事實上非常少"},{"start":5326.276,"end":5350.431,"text":"1250萬所以1250萬非常少我們請所有中央醫院的研究同仁都理解了我們院長的標準就是1250萬非常少可以先不送我們自然難行的部分是一些沒辦法留用的部分那其他的我們照委員講的時候我們已經盡量在處理我是希望您先送就能送因為這個東西到委員會報告不用專案報告好不好"},{"start":5351.932,"end":5356.615,"text":"那太好了委員講不用專案報告我說的是委員會的1250萬我們下禮拜就送不用專案報告委員會的1250萬沒問題我們交報告就可以啊張委員理解嘛我們這個本來就書宴報告就可以啊"},{"start":5367.421,"end":5391.413,"text":"所以請跟同仁了解一下好不好這個是本來就是不用專案報告的這部分是沒有問題但是跟委員報告說我們現在最難最自然難行的就是一些被被刪被動的部分又不能留用那這是為什麼大家會覺得說沒辦法沒辦法動院長您要有動作否則大家會懷疑是不是有人不送現在呢連媒體都在報導了"},{"start":5392.133,"end":5412.386,"text":"行政院是不是在擋解凍報告但是你們是對總統府報告所以你們應該沒有這個壓力所以不要自己給自己壓力黨派委員會凍結的只需要提交書面報告即可解凍同仁如果有告訴你要專案報告才可以解凍那就是有問題你要調查一下所以委員會的李克松進來好不好這個我們同意"},{"start":5416.309,"end":5431.464,"text":"好接著我想我來詢問一下幾個點現在中研院的院內的同仁要做AI的研究能不能下載Deep-Seek R1的模型到自己的電腦上面安全的運行可不可以"},{"start":5433.282,"end":5461.092,"text":"委員好我是資訊服務處處長陳寗志按照目前規定以不能下載為原則如果真的要下載的話他必須要做好資安管控措施對不起我剛剛講的不是下載APP喔不是下載應用喔是下載這個模型喔不行你確定嗎確定現在所有的學者都說下載模型單機運行是沒有問題的喔您確定我們現在的對談是一致的喔是的"},{"start":5461.932,"end":5472.049,"text":"下載模型研究不行需要做資安控管需要報備所以模型運行在自己的電腦上是有資安問題的我們現在列入紀錄喔這個是政府的規定"},{"start":5475.32,"end":5501.696,"text":"所有中國的軟體硬體我請您研究一下所有的規定我們的理解就是不能下載APP不能下載應用服務同時去註冊它的服務可能是有資安的疑慮的可能會有各自的問題模型本身有學術的意義所以請您稍微幫同仁了解一下第二點請問同仁可不可以研讀DeepSeek的開放論文"},{"start":5502.897,"end":5520.37,"text":"論文當然是可以的論文可以嗎所以我想其實相關的這種開放的心態對AI發展非常重要如果沒有問題的就應該讓同仁放手去研究他山之石可以攻錯不管是誰的我們都要好好來瞭解同時我想未來AI的發展應該還會前進我想請教院長您覺得AI的發展結束了嗎還是會繼續發展下去"},{"start":5526.636,"end":5545.499,"text":"當然會繼續發展下去所以我想發展跟監管跟風險都是要做平衡的那同時我也想衛生專業院院長在AI的發展方面有沒有跟其他部會來做合作跟速發部有沒有合作跟國科會有沒有合作跟國防中心的算力有沒有合作"},{"start":5546.259,"end":5568.364,"text":"當然有 當然有很多的interaction譬如說我們的算力主要是由國會的國網中心來support那我們現在也希望說組成全國的很多AI的專家一起來發展AI 而不是大家分散的是啊 我想AI是一個競賽我們希望我們大家不要做自幹"},{"start":5569.144,"end":5594.006,"text":"所以我們特別也覺得這個灌籃高手的合作精神很重要我們也一起來打贏這場AI的競賽我們中央醫院跟各部會一起最後最後一個問題我想沒有電就沒有AI啦面對全球減碳的浪潮您提出了近零五支箭那請教一下院長這五支箭你有沒有發現缺了哪一支箭啊"},{"start":5595.792,"end":5599.377,"text":"這五支箭的部分是我們認為說是社會上討論比較少的我們提出來讓大家討論不是說我們要做社會上已經在討論已經在做的我們就不會放在五支箭裡面是這個意思那您覺得核能現在社會上有在做嗎有在討論"},{"start":5612.412,"end":5638.488,"text":"那有在討論這些不需要我們來提醒說社會需要討論這件事情所以禁令五支箭不是要做的只是大家沒在講的你確定這是這個說法嗎不是不是是我們能夠做的核能現在中文院沒有這樣的人才也沒有這樣的設備我們沒有辦法做核能的研究五支箭每樣我們都有經費有人員有團隊集合全國力量在大力推行當中即使做核能中文院沒有辦法來做核能的研究"},{"start":5641.988,"end":5669.307,"text":"好 沒關係 我們都列入紀錄了我想我們問了全世界最優秀的AI包含Solnet 包含CHAIR GPT 4.5包含Gorak 3我們都問 如果作為國家最高的研究機關我們要做近零五支箭 五個項目我們應該要做什麼 很抱歉每一個AI都把核能 新核能的科技列進去結果您在這裡告訴我們中央醫院沒有能力來做這一塊的研究"},{"start":5670.427,"end":5689.192,"text":"我想這個人民包含我們全世界所有的國家關注研發的關注研究的都會非常失望我希望中研院要秉持著中立跟學術研究的良心不要有意識形態跟政治性我最後一個問題不好意思這個主席已經站起來了我們看到有一位無姓研究員到了民進黨中常會來進行報告"},{"start":5699.774,"end":5718.845,"text":"那提出了這個脫北入中的消息請問這個報告 院長我們可以去哪裡下載我不知道我不知道這件事情這是個別研究員 哪一位無線研究員這邊有很多新聞我不好意思講名字啊在座同仁有沒有知道"},{"start":5719.827,"end":5736.934,"text":"有一位吳姓社會所的研究員到中 有舉手啦 有知道沒有關係 這件事情我們會關於這個學術研究的中立性 獨立性我們希望院長能不能相關訊息了解一下那一些訊息回應到我們辦公室來可以嗎好"},{"start":5738.174,"end":5762.043,"text":"我們個別研究員的言論我們非常尊重不管任何言論我們希望中研院是一個大家能夠秉持學術自由言論自由的方向來做但是他是以中研院研究員的身份出現在那裡而且有了一個單方面的結論所以我相信院長應該要能夠知道那當然我理解學術研究是自由的我們一起來捍衛謝謝"},{"start":5765.592,"end":5772.44,"text":"好 謝謝葛如君召委 院長請回我們接下來請陳秀寶委員謝謝主席 請院長好 有請廖院長"},{"start":5785.928,"end":5800.662,"text":"政委員好院長早安這邊我想先請教院長本席發現有立委是運用我們中研院的報告來佐證乾式儲存廠還有很多空間根本不存在核廢料的後續處置的問題但是事實是這樣嗎請專家來回答"},{"start":5809.047,"end":5823.544,"text":"中研院永續科學中心副執行秘書龍士郡中研院並沒有研究核能相關的人才所以基本上我們都是取用政府公開資料來做彙整這是一個彙整報告"},{"start":5826.067,"end":5843.338,"text":"我想請教一下院長跟您確認以您的專業您回答我按照我們標準的安全的核廢料處理高階核廢料的後續處理是不是就是先放在幹室儲存場然後再移到中期的佔存場最後移到最終處置的這個設施是不是這樣"},{"start":5846.108,"end":5848.511,"text":"理論上是先在場內的一個冷卻池之後的話才會移到場內的乾式儲存槽然後的話如果我們社會有共識能夠找到一個最終儲存場的話最終儲置場然後的話要移存到最終儲置場"},{"start":5863.186,"end":5885.043,"text":"我們按照這個標準的安全的核廢的路徑圖來講我們從燃料池出來之後會到乾式儲存的儲放然後到中期的暫時儲放之後我們會放到最終處置就是最終的處置設施嘛是標準的處理程序是這樣子嗎是那麼我想請教這個核廢料可以一直放在乾式儲存場嗎"},{"start":5887.174,"end":5893.838,"text":"理論上最好最後還是要有一個最終處置場那你們的這一份報告你們的這一份報告上面有提到說核廢料可以一直只放在乾式儲存場就好不用後續處理嗎你上面有寫嗎這邊的話我們都沒有寫我們這邊的話都是取用台電以及這個核安會已經核定的報告所以這是你們的一個數據的統計這不是我們的統計這其實我們是引用別人的資料"},{"start":5914.591,"end":5918.472,"text":"引用別人的資料來做你們的報告嗎現在其實做其實核廢料的處理剛剛我們有討論過了就是這個錄定就是說最後是還要包含就是中期的暫時儲存跟最終的這個處置嘛那其實連美國到現在都還沒有找到最終處置的場址"},{"start":5933.018,"end":5956.789,"text":"那中期的暫存跟最終的處理的選址才是我們現在不能再繼續使用可能一個很大的關鍵那我也希望就借這個機會讓你們中研院把話說清楚不要在這種情況之下混淆視天讓民眾誤解其實民眾是要誤以為說我們有很多的這個空間可以繼續來儲存這些核廢料而且不用再繼續處理我們可以繼續發展核能繼續產生核廢料是這樣嗎"},{"start":5962.572,"end":5982.462,"text":"跟委員報告台電以及經過和安會所核定的台電報告中提到的是乾式儲存槽如果按照目前的規劃的話他確實可能還有一些儲存的空間那最大的儲存的年限的話大概是50年但是在那個之後還是需要最終儲置場那很遺憾的是和安會已經試圖要去"},{"start":5987.504,"end":6013.33,"text":"這個尋找這個最終儲置場很多年了但是因為社會沒有共識所以很沒有辦法選擇到這個最終儲置場好 院長您要說明我們這個報告寫得很清楚就是蓋好後才可以提供儲存換句話說有一些蓋了大部分都還沒有蓋好是這樣子的意思重點是在於乾式儲存它不是最終儲值對 乾式儲存它只是一個暫時的"},{"start":6014.79,"end":6027.44,"text":"我們後續要處理的部分才是我們現在最棘手的對好那你們也做這樣的澄清了就是我們的核廢料不能不是只是一直放在乾式儲存場就可以不是永久我們最終的這個最終處置的部分沒有解決"},{"start":6030.543,"end":6049.375,"text":"所以現在這樣是不足以解決就是我們目前核廢掉的問題的好 謝謝那再來我想請教我們核三廠的二號機將在五月十七就除役那接下來二零五零的近年排放的進度及相關科技的這些研發的進度也是大家都一直非常關心的議題"},{"start":6050.316,"end":6059.539,"text":"那中研院你們這個五大技能科技當中呢去碳燃氫已經在2023年在興達電廠啟動示範機組我想請教一下目前的進度怎麼樣我們現在在規模放大當中跟一些國內廠商合作希望把規模放大到能夠5MW的地步預計在2026年明年在興達電廠"},{"start":6077.586,"end":6097.887,"text":"能夠測試我們的規模放大的效果明年會測試規模放大那你們什麼時候預計投入商轉投入商轉要看規模放大的成果怎麼樣就是現在初期的測試是成效是很好的但是還沒有規模放大那到明年我們會規模放大再來測試"},{"start":6099.088,"end":6121.137,"text":"對 只要測試成功 那我們當然接下來商轉的可能性就非常高假如測試沒有很成功 我們還可以要多努力 還可以往後再推幾年所以要明年規模放大測試之後才會知道說未來什麼時候投入商轉是的那有沒有預期說我們首次投入商轉可以帶來多少發電量這個有沒有一個規劃"},{"start":6122.978,"end":6144.072,"text":"這個我想這個事情都是要逐步的這個屈膽然青的技術可貴的地方就是它不是一次全有或全無它可以逐步增加它的含氫量也是可以逐步增加所以它可以是這個技術發展的狀況可以是這個成本的效果可以簡單的需要可以逐步增加"},{"start":6144.212,"end":6172.505,"text":"所以院長的意思是說現在目前是沒有辦法評估要等明年這個擴大規模的測試之後才能夠知道喔那我這邊想請教院長喔我們在精靈科技中的地熱海洋能以及生殖碳會目前好像比較沒有突破性的進展院長是不是要說明一下這三項計畫目前你們執行的情況這個在地熱方面我們在宜蘭園山已經跟中油合作專探國內首座的深層地熱的研究井到"},{"start":6174.286,"end":6194.658,"text":"這個禮拜為止已經鑽到1500公尺已經鑽1500公尺了這是已經是相當大的突破那我們預計年底應該可以鑽到4500公尺今年年底可以到3000公尺所以這方面持續在進行當中"},{"start":6196.259,"end":6220.038,"text":"那光電的部分我們剛才也提到說光電的部分我們最近有相當好的進展就是在高效光剛才您有展示過有這樣的成效這個方面是非常好的那在海洋能方面我們也開始測試在我們的海洋流發電機在高雄長裡面已經下水測試做浮力測試所以這個也持續都有進行當中"},{"start":6221.263,"end":6243.14,"text":"那關於生殖炭會這個部分生殖炭會部分我們跟農委會的敘事所在合作在培養在篩選下一世代的狼尾草作為牧草它的耐旱耐冷它的肥料的效應等等這個方面也有相當好的進展"},{"start":6243.94,"end":6256.104,"text":"所以其實都持續是有進度的對 但是每一個技術它對時程都不一樣譬如說生殖蛋會跟海洋人它可能時間會比較久一點院長你這邊你會後你把相關的這些資訊你一份資料給我辦公室"},{"start":6260.405,"end":6265.927,"text":"我是希望說中研院這邊要積極的辦理關於我們近林的這些相關科技的繼續的研發而且我們也要隨時關注我們整個世界的趨勢來盡快達成我們2050近林探訪這個目標那我這邊快速的先問一下好了就是我們中研院的這個預算被刪減的問題呢其實我們都知道說學術交流非常的重要"},{"start":6285.494,"end":6304.346,"text":"對於我們的這個國外旅費以及出國教育訓練費用招統15%這個部分呢想必也會影響到我們一些學術交流的活動讓我們一些優秀的學術研究人員沒有辦法順利的進行相關的學術交流及訓練我想知道的是我們中研院這邊因應的辦法是什麼"},{"start":6306.155,"end":6327.504,"text":"我們在可能的範圍裡面我們儘量由這個院方來調度可用的經費所以確實這個產生了相當大的問題所以我們只能在同一工作計畫向下能夠留用但是在不同工作計畫下就不能留用所以我們有一點空間但空間不是很大"},{"start":6328.544,"end":6341.414,"text":"特別是因為金額這個很多大家都需要都同樣有同樣狀況所以跟別人借錢也沒那麼容易所以是這樣的狀況那在這狀況之下每一個計劃執行的研究員就"},{"start":6343.696,"end":6355.669,"text":"會比較沒有企圖心做一些比較前瞻性或者是未來性的研究我想有一些研究員他們本來有一些計畫去執行的就會有點挫折了"},{"start":6358.152,"end":6375.193,"text":"你們被刪的這個經費相當高國外旅費就有兩千多萬那出國教育訓練費用有五百多萬所以其實這樣子合縱起來你們其實合計起來你們被刪的費用這麼高我覺得是會影響到所以我希望說你們院長院長這邊跟我們中院院長盡量想辦法協助我們相關的人員"},{"start":6375.914,"end":6396.625,"text":"但是我真的還是要強調因為其實中研院我們帶領我們國科技前進而且我們前的那個之前我們之前在開會的時候也問過國科會主委他說台灣沒有諾貝爾得主這覺得很丟臉所以我希望說中研院這邊跟我們其他的科研單位還是要持續努力雖然現在遇到這樣子的狀況但希望說"},{"start":6397.185,"end":6405.429,"text":"我們跟相關的部會包括教育部啊我們相關的高等教育的相關改革可以持續努力我們盡快產生諾貝爾獎的得主好嗎好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳秀寶委員院長請回我們接下來請武力華委員"},{"start":6424.7,"end":6450.519,"text":"謝謝主席 有請院長好 有請廖院長好 吳委員早院長早在園民會 您應該很清楚有一個建構原住民族教育文化知識體系的中長城計畫110到114那剛好呢 今年就是一個階段的結束我在3月17號的時候我有就"},{"start":6451.44,"end":6471.43,"text":"原民會這個原住民族知識體系的計畫去問國科會參與的情形那國科會主委是表示這個沒有進行但是我有在中研院的夜報我有看到說你們有持續的參與這個計畫"},{"start":6473.931,"end":6497.746,"text":"那我在這裡就是要肯定為什麼因為我有看到在這個當中有去補助我們原住民學者的一個研究也有去補助做部落的訪調甚至是補助這些人類學系相關學系他們的一個補助計畫那我就要回頭說其實我在2020年的時候我剛進來立法院"},{"start":6500.768,"end":6516.439,"text":"我在教育委員會也曾經質詢過院長您我當時就是希望說中研院能夠多做一點多做一點什麼呢就是說走出學術機構的庫房然後能夠返回部落那我很高興因為我看到"},{"start":6517.539,"end":6536.668,"text":"這些年我們的經費呢有逐年的增加那114年民主所的預算是來到7745萬那我也有提到多做一點就是關於出版專書著作在這邊我也看到台時所的預算今年是編列6360萬都有一個大幅度的成長"},{"start":6541.39,"end":6561.384,"text":"那特別是我看了我們復健當中夜報所提供的這一些講注的名單名冊我也覺得說著實的非常的豐富一年比一年豐富好那我現在要說的是其實我很高興的我這幾年看到有盧凱學"},{"start":6562.625,"end":6588.986,"text":"排灣學 塞夏學 卑南學 阿美族學我至少看到這五個族群都有在辦什麼什麼學的一個研討會而且我要特別就是來肯定中研院裡面很多發表的都是有拿到中研院的經費補助案那我現在是要進一步的來請我們院長中研院來幫個忙就是"},{"start":6591.428,"end":6613.835,"text":"我其實在國科會過去幾次一直到現在我都有不斷的要求有沒有可能把原住民族的研究把它變成一個學門我知道現在能量還不足但是我希望是不是至少讓它成為一個次領域那上次我也有去問國科會因為那個是我五年前問的"},{"start":6614.835,"end":6630.505,"text":"後來發現 哇 不了了之本來有答應要把它變成次領域可是後來還是變成專案補助所以我來到這裡就是也要請我們中研院幫個忙我們的目標都是希望哪一天成為真正的學門"},{"start":6632.288,"end":6655.869,"text":"那在這個部分我希望中研院要有角色那我舉個例子像你們中研院有一個數位典藏我們可以看到就是開放博物館這裡面呢提到相關的數位展覽有13件相關的數位展品有8000件相關的數位專書一就一本"},{"start":6657.151,"end":6679.489,"text":"那這個專書你們的重心又是放在1960到1980年的研究院長我想說的是我希望能夠看到有原住民的學者那我也希望不要只有他族的觀點的專書是不是可以有我族的觀點"},{"start":6681.311,"end":6705.767,"text":"所以在這個部分院長您應該很清楚我在這個部分就是特別希望中研院應該可以有角色那在這裡呢我要特別的提醒就是從過去我們習慣有他者的觀點那現在呢透過你們這幾年這樣的一個補助越來越多的原住民學者越來越多有我族觀點的這一些論文出來"},{"start":6708.308,"end":6718.541,"text":"那我希望未來他有機會成為一個學門啊要不然我現在我也不好意思問啊請問中研院有沒有原住民的院士我不好意思問嘛因為我知道不可能嘛"},{"start":6721.843,"end":6737.141,"text":"但是我希望未來有啊那你都還沒有辦法成為學門的時候我如何哪一天可以看到中研院能夠有原住民的一個院士對不對所以呢在這個地方成為一個學門那我就是一個簡單的訴求啦"},{"start":6739.688,"end":6760.574,"text":"這方面中研院已經在做了對 我現在就是一個訴求這一些什麼學什麼學的他們在辦研討會的時候我希望中研院要有角色最好能夠進去合作然後第二個就是把它整理成專書 從書出版讓我們有一本一本每一年不一樣的排灣族學的從書研究"},{"start":6762.594,"end":6785.04,"text":"盧凱族的重塑研究 泰雅族的重塑研究我希望現在開始我們往這個方向走那針對原住民學 我也希望中研院跟學者能夠緊密的合作不要忘記 不要讓這件事停滯不前 要往前走等到哪一天我們回頭來質詢的時候我們希望看到它是被重視的 它是被改善的來 請"},{"start":6786.64,"end":6813.4,"text":"吳委員好我是那個民主所的所長周玉慧那我今年剛上任四月剛上任我很高興能夠在這裡跟您澄清一件事情就是我們今年會有兩本就是一本是關於工作的就是我們終於要把它出書了那另外一本呢就是剛剛您有提到的就是我們的原住民的培訓的那個計畫我們也會再出一本第二本專書所以呢我們就是在朝著這方面努力那至於您說的我們能夠朝重出出版"},{"start":6815.481,"end":6838.273,"text":"我們也會朝這方面努力的 謝謝好 謝謝所長那在這裡就是提出這樣的一個因為中研院是我們最高的一個學術單位機構那研究機構所以我很希望中研院不要忘記在這個原住民成為學門這一件的路上"},{"start":6839.013,"end":6865.137,"text":"中研院可以幫助我們扮演一個很好的角色那最重要的就是從過去他者觀點的這些研究一百多年來幾十年來都沒有關係到現在開始這幾年我們越來越多原住民我族觀點的一個研究那中研院的學者在這個當中怎麼樣把過去的他者跟現在的這樣的一個怎麼樣去透過研究方法"},{"start":6865.717,"end":6881.962,"text":"透過這樣的一個方法學能夠把它整合出一個更新更完整的東西更前進的東西我想這個是中研院一個責無旁貸的一個責任那希望我們一起來努力院長好謝謝好謝謝那謝謝主席好謝謝謝謝吳麗華委員院長請回"},{"start":6889.366,"end":6895.829,"text":"我們接下來請郭育晴委員那在郭育晴委員質詢完之後 我們休息五分鐘謝謝主席 有請院長好 有請廖院長好 郭委員早廖院長早安"},{"start":6911.932,"end":6937.76,"text":"今天我們看到美國大家在關心的關稅大刀現在看似只砍向中國提高到125%台灣目前還有一個觀察的90天為什麼會特別提到這個部分因為我想企業如果沒有有效的來應對所謂的關稅的壁壘它還是有可能會削弱我們在科技產業當中的一些地位"},{"start":6938.46,"end":6957.818,"text":"那其實在我們的科技產業當中其實最重要的還是人才那科研人才的流用或者是它有可能會流失這個部分其實是我們非常關切的問題那剛剛其實早上我也聽到其他的藍營的委員也在提到這個部分但是現在我們面對我們的預算"},{"start":6960.38,"end":6980.439,"text":"被删被动那其实有很多都是跟人才交流这个国际交流上有一些很大的一个状况相关那我想呢如果没有有效的留住科技人才那除了会影响到这个国际的企业那另外呢还有我们的这个科研的机构"},{"start":6981.079,"end":7003.947,"text":"相對來講整體的一個發展也會產生一些所謂的這個負面的影響那根據這個美國的智庫他們有查過就是超過3500名的半導體的專業人員他們希望能夠藉由挖角台灣或者是韓國的一些所謂的工程師來增強自己本身在這個部分的一個強度"},{"start":7005.988,"end":7031.07,"text":"那當然我們也看到了就是根據檢調的調查這個11家的中國相關的企業涉嫌要挖角台灣的高科技人才那這個涉及的人數呢是超過50名的IC設計以及半導體領域的一個研發人才那我想在這邊請教一下這個院長如何來評估這個部分對台灣科技研發體系的一個長期的影響"},{"start":7031.83,"end":7049.031,"text":"我想在國際上人才競爭是非常劇烈我們在人才競爭的同時我們需要讓全世界知道台灣是一個重視科技發展重視科技研究人才的地方"},{"start":7050.372,"end":7064.697,"text":"所以從這角度出發我們希望未來在審議預算的時候特別要考量學研單位包括大學包括中研院包括所有的研究機構預算的時候要考量"},{"start":7065.177,"end":7088.886,"text":"科研的特殊性及它的重要性它的長遠性來做一個通盤的考量那我們怎麼樣來面對就是中國要挖角或者是美國想要這個人才的一個爭奪所以我們一方面要極力留住另外一方面我們要大力改善我們國內的科研環境那改善國內科研環境一定要充分投資"},{"start":7090.667,"end":7111.003,"text":"大家都知道說現在全世界在拼科技拼科技一定要投資投資一定要從基礎開始從大學從研究機構開始大學中研院其他的法人的研究單位都扮演不同的角色我們在這方面一定要大力支持"},{"start":7111.423,"end":7125.619,"text":"我想這個中研院長年你們都在推動所謂的博士後研究短期的技修或者是國際交流等等的一些計畫那台灣的這個科研人才走出去其實是中研院扮演的非常重要的一個平台"},{"start":7126.28,"end":7145.567,"text":"那但是呢現在我們看到的就是國民黨跟民眾黨他們在預算的凍結跟刪除那這個通山的案子大概通山的部分是3億941萬7千元3億喔那另外呢在大院表決凍結全院的業務費用是高達30%那相對來講就是11億4963萬多"},{"start":7151.429,"end":7168.818,"text":"那這個部分其實嚴重的會影響到我們的國際人才的鍛煉那我想這也是我們非常非常擔心的部分那更可能會造成所謂的這個青年的科研人才他們失去了所謂的關鍵的訓練那這個部分我們中研院怎麼看"},{"start":7170.068,"end":7195.696,"text":"這部分當然是對研究人員心理層面影響是不言可喻大家期待說台灣要能夠重視科研重視特別是科研的環境而不是只有表面上的數字讓科研人才在這邊覺得是受歡迎的讓他做研究能夠有足夠的經費"},{"start":7196.996,"end":7213.841,"text":"他想出國參訪或是甚至國內的交流也都需要有一些經費來支持那這方面假如碰到卡關狀況難免會對研究人員造成一些心理上的一個挫折感"},{"start":7214.481,"end":7224.71,"text":"雖然我們院方也極力來調適這方面來調度可用的經費在合法合理的範圍內我們院方已經調度經費來因應現在這樣子的狀況但是這個畢竟有限"},{"start":7230.134,"end":7238.92,"text":"我們來看一下因為這個畫面當中看到這是一位這個中研院應該是研究員他說中研院的這個經費被刪減通知正式已經發下來了那今年大家所有的研究計畫只能保守計畫勒緊褲帶了那規劃要到這個日本進行20年的長期研究在這樣子的一個氣氛之下只能終止了那這些呢就是藍白認為刪減經費對國家不會有影響的人他希望大家要醒醒啊"},{"start":7258.754,"end":7278.588,"text":"這個是一位中研院的研究名字我們就不透露也不透露他在哪一個這個部門去做這個研究但是他已經確定他是這麼寫的那我想大家應該都知道這個預算凍結很多人說這個凍結是不是我要解凍放在這個微波爐裡面逼一聲就好了"},{"start":7279.108,"end":7304.044,"text":"其實解凍的程序大概經過三個月左右的時間那我們的總預算是在3月21號正式公佈這總預算的部分是3月底才公佈的現在要解凍有這麼簡單嗎這個是其實真的要跟大家講一下從預算的解凍我們的程序大概是怎麼樣因為要到程序委員會去排案再交付委員會"},{"start":7304.884,"end":7323.312,"text":"到了委員會相關被凍結預算的部會機關你們還要交出口頭報告或者是書面報告而且要委員該委員會的同意大家討論過後同意之後才能夠來進行大到大院再交付大院"},{"start":7323.652,"end":7338.376,"text":"然後才能進行解凍整個所有的程序真的有那麼簡單嗎再次強調大概是需要三個月的時間現在都已經四月了我們是3月21號總預算才公佈才確定結果現在因為摯愛難行要你們馬上交出書面報告"},{"start":7346.773,"end":7365.491,"text":"我們是在極力努力所以我們同仁也都非常辛苦有放下很多工作要趕快來彙整各種資料所以今天其實真的還是要再次提醒我們剛剛不斷的一直在強調中研院是科研人才非常重要的一個培養的平台"},{"start":7366.151,"end":7376.523,"text":"那麼不管是對國際上的交流還有我們人才的一個培養其實中研院扮演著非常非常重要的角色但是我們中研院被刪的預算剛剛講過了是三億多"},{"start":7380.948,"end":7400.615,"text":"被通案凍結的預算是百分之三十十一億這整體加起來我想這個影響層面應該是非常非常之大我們只能朝著解凍的方面去努力但是還是要請中研院我們有信心"},{"start":7401.155,"end":7428.788,"text":"因為中醫院一直以來扮演著非常重要的這個科研的一個就是培養人才的一個角色所以我們也希望我們繼續加油好謝謝謝謝院長謝謝主席好謝謝郭育晴委員院長請回我本來有宣告說在育晴委員諮詢後要休息五分鐘那因為葉仁芝委員有要事所以我們就先請葉仁芝委員諮詢"},{"start":7432.95,"end":7435.931,"text":"那等院支委員質詢完我們就休息五分鐘麻煩請那個院長還有彭新坤副院長經濟所的所長好請廖院長跟副院長還有所長院長副院長還有所長好那個因為我們"},{"start":7463.351,"end":7488.328,"text":"中研院有發布一個2025年的台灣經濟情勢總展望其實這段時間最近幾天大家對於經濟是最關心的那中研院又是我們應該算是我們研究的最高能量的機關所以當然很想要來了解一下我們政府或經濟部到底有沒有就這一波川普關稅所對台灣的影響來跟中研院請教我不知道院長有嗎"},{"start":7489.594,"end":7498.739,"text":"中文院這方面是有相當多的實例我知道那個現在因為我們現在政府推出了很多政策嘛那事先有沒有來跟比如說"},{"start":7500.334,"end":7527.161,"text":"中研院這邊不管是經濟所所長啊或者是彭新坤副院長這邊來請教說我們應該怎麼因應這一波經濟危機有嗎我想這個只要是政府單位來跟中研院的個別研究同仁來這個進行磋商的話不會經過院方所以我不會知道那有沒有跟那個副院長來問一下你的意見目前沒有沒有是不是那有沒有跟經濟所所長"},{"start":7528.791,"end":7537.429,"text":"張俊仁所長來詢問目前我也沒有也都沒有是不是好那這樣子我就來請教一下利用這個機會來跟大家請教一下第一個"},{"start":7540.023,"end":7566.312,"text":"本來這份報告裡面它這是去年12月出刊的當時對於我們的GDP的年增率的預估值是3.1%那我想請問一下副院長現在因為我也看過您最近發表的文章去年11月到今年去年11月有去做演講那今年1月也有演講實際上你都有提到川普當選之後有一個很不確定性好像您有提到"},{"start":7566.852,"end":7572.081,"text":"那現在已經很明確了他本來是要關稅是要加到32%但是現在暫緩90天先10%那你的預估對於我們現在那個GDP的影響是怎麼樣"},{"start":7578.625,"end":7599.842,"text":"非常感謝葉委員有注意到我的那個演講不過目前非常非常難預料我想我現在是瞬息萬變那我會覺得去年的預測3.1是不可能達到不可能嘛所以你覺得會下修多少一定會下修那至於會下修多少我要觀察這個未來這個幾個月的時間"},{"start":7605.649,"end":7613.224,"text":"謝謝那我再請問一下副院長因為現在總統的講法是說要用零關稅的這個基礎去跟美國談判"},{"start":7614.431,"end":7643.22,"text":"那他的想法是這樣那請問一下您支持這樣零關稅去談這樣的一個做法報告葉委員這個零關稅不是關鍵因為我們的法定關稅非常低了已經不到2%現在問題的關鍵是在非關稅貿易障礙對 有哪些包括像這個進口的配合包括檢疫包括像我們的基因的食品這些我們政府的規定都被美國在挑剔"},{"start":7644.54,"end":7656.758,"text":"甚至是我們的外匯市場的人為干預這個在美國的報告裡面都有提出來所以你的意思是說總統講的零關係因為他今天才投書外媒"},{"start":7657.802,"end":7680.55,"text":"你就覺得他講的不是重點重點應該是你剛講那些嘛零關稅其實對我們大部分的產品已經很低了只有少數像汽車有點偏高還是17.5像保健食品30%有點偏高那是大部分的進口產品都非常非常低非常低關鍵是在所以我們拿零關稅去跟他談他應該是不會買單應該是副院長剛講那些貿易非貿易障礙"},{"start":7685.632,"end":7714.091,"text":"要去把它消除之後美國可能才會給我們降低關稅你的意思是這樣嗎對那我希望說你可以跟總統建議一下那再來就是我們看這個GDP一定會下修嘛那我們看下一頁這個是也是經濟所前一年12月公佈的CPI物價指數是2.02那請問一下問一下所長好了你覺得我們的CPI會增加增加"},{"start":7715.725,"end":7734.045,"text":"我們的CPI事實上這個是因為這是去年12月的預估啦那因為當時大家也不知道說川普會提高關稅到32%嘛那經濟所會重新預估一下嗎會的那你覺得應該他的走勢會怎麼樣主要的問題還是在這個"},{"start":7736.904,"end":7741.948,"text":"水電的價格會不會造成我是說關稅的影響因為川普的關稅政策會不會影響到我們國內的物價"},{"start":7746.482,"end":7775.211,"text":"我是經濟所負責的梁淑君我想從關稅角度來看的話如果我們出口會下降的話而且因為對這個出口衰退的預期會導致這個資本外流這兩個因素都會有對我們新台幣貶值造成壓力那如果是這樣從這個角度來看的話確實會造成輸入性通膨那在這個基礎上原本物價的壓力就挺高的那有可能會讓物價有更上升的壓力"},{"start":7776.173,"end":7791.057,"text":"那現在有辦法預估嗎還是不確定我們現在因為就是這個關稅的幅度還不確定然後執行的長度也不確定我們修正的方向應該是會還是維持在二以上但是距離幅度現在還需要觀察"},{"start":7792.837,"end":7818.284,"text":"接下來再問一下匯率這是也是經濟所的預測也是去年12月公佈的是預測說美元匯率大概是32.51那是不是也來預測一下因為川普這個關稅政策就我剛才提到的兩個因素都是會讓匯率有貶值的壓力所以原來的預測應該是有一點高估了有點高估"},{"start":7820.071,"end":7844.698,"text":"我特別來問這些問題就是要說因為我們看我們不管是所長副所長副院長當然院長是統領所有中研院大家其實對經濟都很了解而且也都非常關心所以如果中研院可以主動出席雖然我們現在剛剛問起來好像行政院或經貿辦公室並沒有來問你們意見開會沒有找你們但我覺得如果中研院既然我們有這麼豐沛的研究能量"},{"start":7845.538,"end":7870.962,"text":"主動出擊第一位政府給他們正確的方向這可以幫助台灣度過經濟危機那接下來再來我們來看一下這是前一段時間引起了一個風波那個經濟所還有那個副院長可以請回這應該是國建所這個一個生物醫學科學研究所之前一個風波就是有民眾反映"},{"start":7872.639,"end":7895.679,"text":"忽然間有中研院的人找他們說要抽血檢查而且指定小朋友所以大家非常的害怕那這個當時是公文啦公文是這個我想請問一下為什麼會發生這樣的事情因為任何的現在家長對小朋友都很寶貝啦忽然有人上門指定說要抽小朋友的血大家都會非常的害怕這個事情為什麼會這樣我想這是個誤會我們請那個首長來解釋"},{"start":7901.089,"end":7904.09,"text":"委員好 我是生意所所長陳盈莊很簡短的跟您報告一下這是一個國建署的委託計畫基本上是針對全台灣的民眾來做調查所以沒有集中在小朋友上面那基本上它有一個很特別的抽樣式"},{"start":7916.235,"end":7926.557,"text":"全台灣會抽出八十個里八十個里每一個里還會再抽出十個家庭那他們在做家訪的時候呢會先寫一封信問說願不願意受訪然後呢當時訪問的時候也會把信帶去如果他們不願意受訪那這個事情就會結束如果會訪問的話也會在當時在安排下面訪問的時間所以實際上這個可能是一個誤會這是一個誤會"},{"start":7944.18,"end":7963.491,"text":"但當時媒體人爆了蠻大的因為那既然有誤會我覺得中研院我們都相信中研院不會作亂七八糟事情啦可是如果說是有誤會造成人家心情恐慌可能要思考一下那個流程是不是在哪個地方有疏失啦我覺得大家可能再思考一下是 我們有檢查SOP 謝謝OK 謝謝好 謝謝葉元之委員院長請回那我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":7975.796,"end":7976.517,"text":"有發言的感覺"},{"start":7989.079,"end":7989.359,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8017.619,"end":8020.077,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8024.377,"end":8024.637,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8053.476,"end":8054.217,"text":"謝謝您的收看"},{"start":8081.858,"end":8082.459,"text":"鸡蛋糕"},{"start":8093.182,"end":8093.202,"text":"好"},{"start":8115.043,"end":8145.043,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8145.043,"end":8145.584,"text":"你這個開採的那個"},{"start":8170.879,"end":8171.579,"text":"那是中美聯合監督會議會議員"},{"start":8193.505,"end":8213.814,"text":"對阿 中國完全沒問題"},{"start":8222.944,"end":8246.869,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":8267.993,"end":8272.217,"text":"OK good"},{"start":8284.828,"end":8285.328,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":8326.846,"end":8329.928,"text":"好 我們會議繼續我們接下來請張雅玲委員質詢"},{"start":8343.483,"end":8345.51,"text":"謝謝主席 有請院長好 有請廖院長"},{"start":8349.649,"end":8375.99,"text":"張委員好院長好我想就是說這幾天前面也有非常多委員關心有關於美國關稅的議題是不是有跟中研院做一些相關的請教那因為這件事情其實引發了世界各國政府的一些震盪然後也讓大家都非常的對未來有一些憂心不過我也在網路上面有看到有一位經濟所的許文泰的教授他研究員他其實也寫了相關的文章來跟大家分析"},{"start":8376.65,"end":8404.67,"text":"好那這個呢這個文章其實也受非常多的人得到認同啦然後轉載啦然後也有國外的一些媒體也來做一些採訪所以我想這個東西其實是一個非常重要在彰顯一個很重要的事情就是中原音樂其實是台灣的智庫是台灣的大腦所以這是非常重要的一個我們必須應該要省慎在預算上面應該要更省慎的一個單位那接下來其實跟這篇文章無關啦所以其實是想要"},{"start":8415.867,"end":8430.634,"text":"剛剛許文泰研究員給了我們一些方向就是台灣怎麼辦那我現在就想要來請教院長那中研院怎麼辦就是說在我們面對的這一次大規模的總預算的一些刪減案"},{"start":8432.475,"end":8447.592,"text":"我知道就是之前院長其實也有相關的發言就是說對中研院的一些影響所以我想要請教一下就是說我知道院長已經啟動了院內經費彈性調配優先確保研究人員薪水以及核心計畫的運作例如去碳燃氫的計畫因為屬於新興計畫所以"},{"start":8450.675,"end":8474.609,"text":"在立法院沒有審過這個預算之前呢每月逾百萬元的人力成本暫時由其他研究經費來支應那宜蘭地熱探勘團隊開挖深度達1000公尺這個經費也是透過既有的計畫來去支應但是我想請教院長說明的是說這樣子的調控能夠撐多久那這樣子的調控有哪些的計畫受影響可不可以簡單說明一下"},{"start":8477.488,"end":8495.937,"text":"區團燃氣清新步伐這部分據我了解上禮拜已經通過了學術署陳建章我説明一下新的計畫區團燃氣裡面有一支有受到影響因為它是屬於新的在公共建設計畫那支我們受了影響大概一千萬元左右"},{"start":8496.577,"end":8510.23,"text":"然後我們自己院內的計畫有一個跟AI相關的AI在人文與科學研究的創新應用計畫那一支計畫有受到影響大概受到一百多萬的影響然後這些計畫都還是受到30%的凍結現在還在"},{"start":8514.574,"end":8530.74,"text":"但是我想因為其實這個因為你調配了一些計畫那一定有一些計畫也要做一些縮減嘛對不對這部分是不是也可以簡單說明一下實際上影響因為我覺得可以希望清楚的說明讓大家知道說中研院在這一次的預算刪減案實質上對我們的學術研究會產生什麼樣子的一個影響"},{"start":8532.149,"end":8548.022,"text":"我想最大的影響是讓大家的企圖心不見了反正我做多也是OK我做少一樣可以交差原來想要更加有企圖心的往更先進更前瞻的方向做"},{"start":8550.083,"end":8566.469,"text":"或許這方面給大家的感覺就覺得說不是這樣子的狀況所以這方面的影響是沒有辦法來量化也沒有辦法來實質來說明的都是大家心理層面上的"},{"start":8567.233,"end":8584.911,"text":"我想這個心理層面的影響是非常非常可怕的因為我們在講學生的學習上面最怕就是他失去那個好奇心嘛對不對還有他的學習動機嘛那這樣子的一個刪減案其實並不是只有研究計畫就是台灣未來的智庫的擴充知識的量能擴充會受到影響還有我們這些研究人員的熱情"},{"start":8586.192,"end":8602.86,"text":"跟創造力跟研究的這些動能都會受到影響所以我希望就是說有在觀看我們直播的所有的台灣的公民朋友都要非常了解這次的三檢預算案對於團體的士氣研究都受到非常大的打擊那我想要再請教院長就是說"},{"start":8603.8,"end":8627.362,"text":"因為其實從我自己非常關心的就是兒童科普日這件事情過去這幾年其實兒童科普日也都帶來非常好的人潮然後也做非常好的一個兒童的科普基層教育也在家長之間大受好評那很可惜的是我們可以看到114年我們的業務費雖然沒有做太多的調整只有大概一點點 將近6萬塊可是我們的媒體政策及業務生產費"},{"start":8629.224,"end":8636.862,"text":"少只剩下從49萬變6萬那我想知道那這個今年的規模會不會有什麼樣子的影響可不可以清楚的說明一下我們請秘書處長來回答"},{"start":8638.891,"end":8662.073,"text":"委員好 秘書處處長曾國祥對 因為由於受到這個經費的煽動那我們所有的活動基本上都是要由所中心來這個響應那因為所中心還是以研究為主那在這個經費有限情況之下今年的規模確實可能會變小此外如同委員所提到的因為我們的這個沒宣費同時剩下60%所以今年的宣傳的力道就不會像往年那麼樣的積極"},{"start":8663.234,"end":8690.28,"text":"所以可能參與的人數方面可能也會比較不如預期但是我們還是會盡力把這個活動辦好謝謝我想問一下就是說場次呢因為去年原本就是大家都非常的期待可以有更多的場次嘛那今年的場次是不是會變少對因為我們還要跟所中心進行這個醫院的調查那我剛才所說的因為經費的刪減那我不太想對那大家還是會以研究為優先所以在場次的方面我們不敢很樂觀的預估"},{"start":8691.34,"end":8706.675,"text":"好 那我可以簡單的跟您確認一下就是說我去年去的時候我們其實現場結合了我們的研究有做一些很可愛的扭蛋機然後我們還會送一些就是給小朋友的一些贈品然後還有一些很有趣的場次所以是不是這些通通都可能會消失"},{"start":8707.296,"end":8726.533,"text":"我們會盡力的還是會希望能夠繼續辦下去對那因為這個如同剛才說的因為宣傳費用是減少的所以我們的做法大概就會比較回到傳統的方式用公務機關的譬如說用公文用我們的自己的新聞稿這樣的方式來做宣傳"},{"start":8727.133,"end":8747.981,"text":"好的沒關係因為我想這個是藍白亂山預算造成一個後果啦但是我希望還是可以幫我這邊用我們的臉書的平台社群的平台一起來幫忙宣傳所以到時候如果有相關的資訊的話也希望pass到我們這邊我們一起來做宣傳讓更多的孩子有機會可以來參與這麼有好這麼優質的一個運動那接下來再請請教一下院長就是有關於才化法"},{"start":8748.601,"end":8764.57,"text":"好 就是剛剛講這種預算啦可是財劃法也會受到一些影響嘛所以我想要請教就是說之前有團體連署就是財劃法的修法可能會讓我們的科研預算倒退十年那我自己大概去估算因為像我看了國科會說它大概有兩百億的影響"},{"start":8765.47,"end":8790.1,"text":"那我自己算了一下這個可能會是中研院的一個影響大概就是從學研領域會少14萬自然人文的研究也會少14萬所以大概總共會有28億的影響我不曉得說院長現在有沒有一些相關的預估金額跟影響這個金額到目前為止是非常難估算的那假如這個委員的數字是對的話那對我們影響是非常非常大的"},{"start":8792,"end":8805.604,"text":"這方向我想我們是有點不確定性特別是對未來科研除了不能刪除外更應該要加碼投資在這狀況之下我們確實是有點擔憂"},{"start":8809.131,"end":8835.403,"text":"對 那我想可能接下來也可能要再看院長也可能要開始來評估一下就是這28%下去之後我們的實際影響可能會是哪些可能要做一些因應的部分尤其剛剛有講到就是說全球的AI都在競爭大家都那麼的競爭可是我們卻在國家打擊自己的士氣打擊自己的研究計畫但是我想我們還是可能要有一些因應的作為可能要請院長要積極的來做那最後一件事情我想要講的是說"},{"start":8836.823,"end":8857.733,"text":"其實比較輕鬆的事情啦就是說中研院其實一直都有一些相關的出版品那大概已經有累積了三千多件的一個出版品喔但是呢兒童面相的出版品從2008年到現在只有這一本啦整個這17年來只有這一本喔那其實因為受到這個兒童權利公約的關係喔其實許多的部會都開始製作了相關的"},{"start":8858.633,"end":8883.858,"text":"這些繪本就可能簡單讓孩子可以更了解他們這個機構在做什麼像這個是國政中心他們做的一些很有趣的這種翻番書立體的翻番書可以讓小朋友透過這些書可以更了解地震的時候他應該怎麼預防怎麼避難像這個是農業署做的去講有關於胎險的故事也是一個很可愛的繪本"},{"start":8884.977,"end":8911.492,"text":"所以我只是想說因為其實在法國它也有一個國家科學研究中心他們也是用非常可愛的方式去講分子科學那我們是不是也有可能來研擬一下有沒有可能來製作一本講述中研院某一個領域研究的書呢或者是把我們兒童科普日的東西再濃縮起來做一個很可愛的繪本可以跟孩子來介紹呢"},{"start":8912.077,"end":8934.724,"text":"這方面是很好建議但是因為我們中醫院這個目前沒有這方面的人才這個也恐怕也不是我們的專長那加上這個大家現在忙於這個做這個在這個可用預算之下能夠照顧好自己的最基礎的研究所以這方面我們目前大概只能是來"},{"start":8937.985,"end":8952.47,"text":"來規劃來檢視看我們有沒有這方面的能量那委員的建議是非常好這是非常可愛的繪本比較可行的方式可能是我們找外面的單位一起來合作那我們來跟專家一起來做這個可能比較可行"},{"start":8953.151,"end":8975.932,"text":"好我了解了那就是希望就是我非常可以清楚的了解就是院長也有這個心想要來跟外部團隊一起來思考看看但我也非常清楚的知道說因為現在的預算現在預算受到非常大的影響所以以至於現在這本可能執行上面會有一些難度那我們就希望說今年今年接下來我們"},{"start":8977.574,"end":8989.728,"text":"我們黨跟民眾黨的委員在審相關預算的時候要更謹慎不然他不僅是打擊了我們研究團隊的士氣也好他可能也會犧牲掉我們兒童可以親近科普知識的機會謝謝好 謝謝謝謝 院長請回謝謝張雅琳委員那我們接下來請吳佩義委員"},{"start":9004.733,"end":9007.676,"text":"謝謝主席 我請中研院廖院長好 有請廖院長"},{"start":9011.431,"end":9016.272,"text":"好 吳委員長好 院長好今天是中研院的業務報告詢答那當然很多委員會關心到預算因為有預算我們才能夠執行才能夠做事情那剛前面也有很多的關切那首先我想要請教院長一個問題因為社會上也有一種意見認為說中研院的預算即便受到煽動預算還是比去年多那為什麼要哭求製造社會的恐慌關於這一點因為我個人是不認同的我想要請問院長你有什麼樣的回應"},{"start":9041.218,"end":9059.947,"text":"我們增加這個分兩點來講第一個我們增加部分是因應很大一部分是這個加調薪的部分至少3億元是用來調薪另外1億元是用來做這個治安的改善然後剩下的部分是因應這個所有研究耗材經費"},{"start":9061.687,"end":9083.612,"text":"研究的成本在過去幾年當中增加的非常多所以我們增加的部分是這樣子最重要的影響是研究員的企圖心就被打擊了我們增加預算並不是讓我們過得舒服是研究員希望做的更多的事情中文醫院並沒有法定說你要做多少研究"},{"start":9084.612,"end":9112.244,"text":"所以我們爭取預算的原因是因為每個研究員有很強的企圖心想做更多更前瞻的研究拿一樣的薪水他拿一樣的薪水他需要做更多的研究那這樣的狀況之下那他現在沒辦法做所以嚴格講起來他薪水沒有被影響他一樣可以做他的事情但是對國家未來的科研就無形中產生一個沒有辦法估計的影響"},{"start":9112.984,"end":9130.733,"text":"是 其實站在支持我們國家的學術研究的立場我是支持你們增加預算因為其實去年我們在委員會這裡我又記得不同黨派的委員都一直在關切的是我們給研究人員的待遇如何尤其拿跟很多國家來比較是的"},{"start":9132.174,"end":9152.558,"text":"甚至台灣的研究人員的待遇甚至比有些國家少到五分之一差距是這麼落差這麼大我們的學術人員也是在國際的市場裡面去競爭願意留在我們台灣繼續從事學術研究我們其實都抱持感恩這當中都有一份為國貢獻的心情否則以他們的優秀他們的才能"},{"start":9156.579,"end":9161.825,"text":"其實很多的國家都紛紛向他們招手所以我還是認為說我們應該要來給予支持因為這都是對我們國家的發展是相當的重要那院長你剛也在詢問當中多次提到說雖然說刪減凍結數字這麼大但是你的責任當然是你要盡力的讓"},{"start":9176.98,"end":9184.625,"text":"我們研究人員還有我們相關的業務不要受到影響所以努力的在做調度能不能實際的舉例一下是什麼樣的調度因為我舉幾個例子例如說刪減這還不是凍結刪減我們的出國差旅費這包含了學術會議學術訪問這個是被刪了15%3000多萬那還有我們的這個"},{"start":9201.575,"end":9215.848,"text":"出國的教育訓練也是被刪了15%那像這些被刪掉它大概會影響實際影響到是什麼樣的因為我想國人可能不了解因為說就是搭飛機出國實際上不知道你們去做什麼事情那我們現在被刪了15%我們如何來調度呢我們請國際處長回答"},{"start":9221.032,"end":9244.293,"text":"委員國際處處長孟子欽報告我們被刪掉這個出國旅費最大的影響就是把年輕學者跟學生送出國去參加學術會議還有進行國際交流的短言計劃那這個的確是15%的刪減會造成我們必須要減低補助的金額或者是降低補助的名額那這個在今年應該是一定會反映出一個實質上的影響"},{"start":9244.793,"end":9264.822,"text":"那我們目前會是以減少名額還是說名額維持只是補助的金額降低這個我們還在評估但是可能會是以減少名額可是補助金額對每一位送出去的同仁還是給他可以支應這個旅費的金額這樣子可能對每一個人的影響會比較少一點"},{"start":9265.502,"end":9292.805,"text":"是 這個我們還是就是非常希望明年因為預算還有明年就是未來這些預算有機會都要把它加回來因為就我們所知其實過去就已經都希望要再去持續增加了那委員我們到年終之後我們會再評估如果說有一些我們院內的預算可以想辦法挪移的話我們當然會再繼續支持但是這個可能還是需要再評估之後才能夠決定"},{"start":9293.405,"end":9309.891,"text":"對沒錯這也是我們立法院大家要共同來協商啦因為我看這一次我們的刪減條件很多是不得流用這個就會讓在後面我想說對如果說委員可以幫忙的話就不得流用這個如果可以中研院排除在不得流用這一項那這樣對我們真的會有很大的幫助"},{"start":9313.012,"end":9318.293,"text":"恐怕是很多部位都希望可以排除不得留用所以這個我只是說要讓大家知道這個文字不得留用它實際上會造成什麼樣的影響好 那幾位可以請回繼續請教院長是台灣橋樑計畫這個去年總統也有接見這是世界和平基金會的主席來到台灣那我看了中央院近日有發布嘛我們今年是預計會在台灣來舉辦"},{"start":9338.177,"end":9355.645,"text":"那預計除了中研院以外包括台大、清大、成大、師大、中興、東海、中國醫藥、亞洲、慈濟等大學也會一起來參與這個跨校跨院校的合作計畫我想應該是今年台灣學術界一個蠻重大的盛事能不能說明一下我們目前的這個進展那預計怎麼樣來進行好我們請國際處長來說好"},{"start":9362.548,"end":9373.512,"text":"這個計畫從今年11月到明年4月在台灣總共會邀請28位諾貝爾獎得主涵蓋和平獎、化學、生醫跟物理所以各領域都有"},{"start":9376.728,"end":9396.355,"text":"經濟沒有 經濟目前沒有那他們除了在台灣會給公開演講之外現在最重要的一個我們想要推動的事情是跟台灣的學者還有學生甚至一些民眾有一些對話深入的對話那我們希望這個活動可以讓台灣走入世界也讓世界看到台灣是 先十位諾貝爾獎得主"},{"start":9399.671,"end":9404.354,"text":"28位 10位是本院支持那總共這個台灣橋樑的計畫就像您剛說的有包括各個不同的學校參與所以總共會有28位28位的諾貝爾獎得主來到台灣這個恐怕是盛況空前所以我也希望說我們可以多加強交流啊 相關的宣傳我覺得除了學術圈以外也應該可以跟國人大家一起來分享這是非常重要的知識性的相關的交流"},{"start":9425.586,"end":9429.669,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來是很關心的因為我看到BBC有一個報導就說2024全球電力需求持續增長那來自乾淨能源的貢獻已經超過了四倍四成那其中太陽能發電量的成長是最快的過去三年太陽能已經增長了一倍"},{"start":9444.199,"end":9453.463,"text":"那眾議院近日宣布院長今天有報告就是我們的太陽能技術我們的光電轉換效率已經超過了31%這個下世代的太陽能電池元件這個比目前市售產品轉換效率是高出三成以上所以可能很多人就在期待啦那未來我們的這個技術量產啊落地的應用啊等等這個怎麼樣來進行進展你們請院長說明我們請那個觀念中心主任來回答"},{"start":9471.031,"end":9474.436,"text":"委員好 我是關鍵中心主任李超煌那麼目前我們這個技術在3月26號已經開了一個疊層太陽能技術的說明會"},{"start":9480.646,"end":9503.78,"text":"那麼大概全台灣跟太陽能產業相關的包括材料商、設備商、電池商、模組商都有派代表來參加那麼目前已經有兩個大的公司表示願意加入這個聯發聯盟那麼我們期望初期是以共同研發的方式然後各自去開發各自的製材把這個技術真正落地在台灣可以生產"},{"start":9505.18,"end":9513.342,"text":"這個我覺得非常的重要就是這是一個很重要的研究技術的突破加上我們跟產業已經開始有在結盟因為我們台灣太陽能板2011年開始設置它的這個太陽能線其實差不多20年所以我們現在這個未來如果能夠技術應用的話除了設在新的案場我們既有案場要更新的時候我們剛好就是達上這個時間點所以非常的重要也非常的期待那請中央醫院繼續努力加油那我們國人都會支持你們謝謝"},{"start":9534.929,"end":9559.537,"text":"好 謝謝吳佩玉委員好 請林靜委員執行好 謝謝主席有請廖院長請中理院廖院長"},{"start":9562.99,"end":9584.264,"text":"林委員要照好 院長辛苦院長 中研院今年的業務費被國民黨凍結了30%共計11億多那特別必須強調的是中研院的國內外旅費以及媒體政策跟業務宣導費也早就已經被通案"},{"start":9585.746,"end":9591.012,"text":"減八了一成比 統三所以剩下來的錢又被凍結了30%簡直是嚴重打擊了中研院推動科普以及延展年輕學術人才的量能"},{"start":9602.066,"end":9618.189,"text":"我想台灣的學術研究就是站在國際舞台上接受強烈競爭跟挑戰的最重要的一個關鍵我想只有權力的衝刺我們才能跟世界各國並駕齊驅所以沒有哪一個國家說會自己的在野黨"},{"start":9619.19,"end":9642.907,"text":"因為通常這個中研院這種學術機關應該就是不分黨派大家來支持自己國家學術研究所以竟然我們的在野黨透過這種大幅度凍結預算的手段然後再叫中研院的學者這個停下來等解凍那逼迫台灣的這個學術研究規模來縮減我覺得這就是很"},{"start":9644.088,"end":9668.703,"text":"某個程度我是覺得是非常的惡劣啦那我現在是納悶是說當然這個中研院可能想說到底我們是犯了多大的重大的疏失才會被動成這樣讓在野黨不惜犧牲這個學術衝擊國際的交流也要這樣大幅度的凍結預算院長你覺得你有犯下重大的疏失嗎"},{"start":9676.537,"end":9686.979,"text":"我想實際上真的是莫須有的罪名因為國民黨自己的凍結預算的內文其實也都說不出一個所以然為什麼要凍我們 為什麼要刪我們"},{"start":9689.02,"end":9712.094,"text":"那搞不清楚這樣的一個狀況之下很遺憾的 很明顯的就是說台灣這樣重要的學術工作成為國民黨惡搞的犧牲品那我想為了預算問題剛剛葛如君召委又有點名我所以我想我也趁這個機會做個提問喔我其實我也很納悶就國民黨又要動預算然後又要趕火車 請你解動預算那"},{"start":9715.976,"end":9726.665,"text":"那當初他在動是在動台灣文的動心聲的喔對哪有這種就是說你要動人家然後又要說啊你趕快解凍就是說怕人然後還要喊救人我已經大開殺戒然後又說你怎麼"},{"start":9733.911,"end":9755.589,"text":"不去送醫院莫名其妙那國民黨可能就很清楚知道他這樣的亂三動預算已經造成了社會很大的輿論他也造成他自己很大的困擾所以他現在才急著想要這個彌補的時候叫你們趕快來送解凍案那可是喔很有趣的是當初國民黨動文的這個"},{"start":9758.371,"end":9774.317,"text":"理由就是一篇言不及語的廢文甚至還複製貼上那要叫中研院的話剛剛院長你也回答你還很用心回答所以我要花很多的心力然後我們要花很多的時間要去寫一篇解凍的報告"},{"start":9775.237,"end":9790.238,"text":"即便是書面報告也不能亂寫我們又不是國民黨所以我想這個部分很顯然就是說他們召委然後用這樣的方式來質詢你我是覺得國民黨確實是沒有到現在還沒有反省能力針對這件事情"},{"start":9792.441,"end":9821.146,"text":"我們預算被凍結影響的層面相當廣那我最關心的就是說我們的南部縣區因為十月份我們就有要辦理縣區開放的這個系列活動那我想十月份要辦的活動我們是不是現在就要開始做所謂的左手採購的一些作業包括一些籌備網路架設啦 活動設計啊廠部啊 宣傳等等那這些"},{"start":9823.167,"end":9838.753,"text":"剛剛好像雅玲委員有稍微提及那你有回答說這個就能就現在的多少預算做多少的事情嘛那是不是這個部分就也只能這樣 院長是的 就我們也儘量在目前可動用預算之下來規劃那詳細我們就請秘書處關鍵中心來回答"},{"start":9843.475,"end":9867.108,"text":"報告委員 秘書處處長曾國祥除了剛才提到的可能在規模跟參與人數會影響之外您特別關心的南部縣區開放主要還會因為國內旅費刪了15%而且不能留用那因為南部縣區特別需要這一個資源所以它影響的程度會更大但是我們還是會盡我們的全力把這個活動繼續辦下去"},{"start":9868.849,"end":9897.816,"text":"因為刪除預算他如果給你寫個但書不得留用就是真的沒有辦法所以我們兩個好他再來要跟院長來探討一個數位化研究資料開放的問題知識是公共財那由全民同資那掌握研究資源的這個中研院我想有責任推動知識的普及與開放我舉個例來講中研院的台史所的台灣日記知識庫就做得很好"},{"start":9898.756,"end":9924.892,"text":"讓台灣大眾都可以很輕易的找到林憲棠啊田健智郎等這種重要的歷史人物的日記這一點非常的重要那像林憲棠的日記如果在台灣史的學者手中可能他就轉換成論文那同樣是林憲棠的日記到了導演手中可能就變成一部電影那所以開放這個資料乍看之下可能是吃力不討好可對於台灣文化台灣研究的長遠建設來看是可以創造無數的可能性"},{"start":9928.214,"end":9939.625,"text":"所以開放資料的重要性真的遠不亞於中研院研究的推陳出新那透過中研院的數位文化中心我們大概可以掌握到有131個資料庫"},{"start":9944.91,"end":9972.253,"text":"包含資料庫 工具 平台跟主題網站在內的一些數位化的成果可是當中有部分的網站已經失效或者已經需要重新佈建那這一點麻煩中也因為必須要重新盤點跟改善那另外關鍵字的這個搜索功能好像也只能針對個別的網站提供的簡短說明來內容做搜尋沒有辦法說處理跨資料庫的檢索"},{"start":9973.974,"end":9980.264,"text":"那這一點可能是否也要請中研院來提出一些改革方案我想這部分是不是也簡單說明一下"},{"start":9981.448,"end":10010.522,"text":"社會文化中心陳希仁委員說得好 事實上我們現在在通盤整理因為我們現在可能要建置一個Open Academy的方法來使得研究人員就近包括您剛所講的日記資料庫來妥善的運用 運用在他們的研究上面去所以我們現在想全部的納入這樣的系統裡面來以我們過去的開放博物館為基礎建立起這個所謂的開放的一個學術院讓人文研究學者能夠擅進從文字影像到數字的社會化整理工作"},{"start":10017.468,"end":10028.898,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們在南部縣區也建立了一個數位圖書館現在方便南部的學者到我們的南部縣區就可以用到我們這些數位的資料"},{"start":10029.358,"end":10048.831,"text":"好 那現在就我整理了幾項我們中研院網路開放資料使用者希望改善的點或許可以提供中研院一些改革的方向像近代史 這個數位資料庫算是一個模範 它內容完整而全面可是像說石宇所的數位典藏資料庫整合系統"},{"start":10049.571,"end":10068.623,"text":"就是這個入口網站的型態它整合檢索的功能差那剛才的那個平台上剛才我們提到的那個台時所這個台灣日記知識庫它則是建立在維基百科這個平台上所以那個文字資料的結構性"},{"start":10069.804,"end":10089.422,"text":"相對低那如果未來如果要建立這個規模包含列啊欄啊的這種資料表可能會造成處理電腦處理上的困難那怎麼突破這可能要請中研院多費心一點那另外有台灣文獻全文資料庫有新建的報紙資料還沒有上網的問題那台灣研究"},{"start":10092.765,"end":10113.944,"text":"古籍資料庫則是欠缺全文字的檔所以特別必須提到的是說中研院建設這個平台似乎好像都偏向計畫成果的彙整很難跨資料庫的檢索這一點相當可惜所以以上是不是也請院長做一些改革"},{"start":10115.105,"end":10140.112,"text":"謝謝委員的建議我們朝這個方向來做事實上有些東西我們已經開始在做謝謝委員的提醒那需要多少時間跟委員報告一下就是我們現在關鍵中心有一個新的計畫就是利用AI來解讀歷史文本今年已經開始執行而且我們投入相當大的經費有台詞鎖民族鎖跟進食鎖三個鎖一起來做所以在您提到這個"},{"start":10142.473,"end":10159.503,"text":"報紙資料還有這個全文字檔案的部分我們這邊一定會加速的來進行好因為中研院的這個數位內容全數都是全民投資的成果所以開放全民共享我想理所當然那以社會所台灣社會意向調查為這個例子調查執行後三年就會開放資料下載那調查完成後半年就會開放問卷下載那請問院長中研院這種"},{"start":10170.49,"end":10195.319,"text":"所有的數位化研究資源是否都有像這個台灣社會意向調查這樣的開放年限的規劃我想每個計畫的它的這個開放程度也不一樣它有特殊的條件所以可能沒有辦法這個一個政策用諸四海那可以每一個不同的資料來分開來處理這可能比較合適"},{"start":10197.096,"end":10223.491,"text":"所以你覺得就各所要各行其事就是說大家朝能夠開放 儘量開放的目標前進但是每一個計畫 每一個資料庫都有它特殊的狀況所以我們必須要考量這個部分當然啦 數位化成果開放程度不一可是對於這些公共資源我想我們應該要最大程度的開放因為它還是可以讓全民共享好 以上謝謝 謝謝院長"},{"start":10225.792,"end":10228.194,"text":"謝謝主席 謝謝林議員 請院長回座謝謝 我們接下來請萬美玲委員好 謝謝召委 我們有請廖俊智院長好 有請院長"},{"start":10254.332,"end":10270.002,"text":"王委員好好 院長辛苦了我想今天的質詢到現在不論是我們葛如今召委或者是林盈瑾召委以及我們所有的委員我想對於中研院的預算我們都是充分支持但是本於明代的職責嚴格審查那現在呢"},{"start":10273.224,"end":10287.356,"text":"一如過往這幾年都一樣過去的這個例子就是我們解凍的案子事實上到了4月了5月了那也提醒院長那我們有很多可能都是要靠這個書面報告提出來以後就可以申請解凍案那我想這個"},{"start":10288.277,"end":10310.573,"text":"醫警委員也很替中原醫院來設想葛如荊委員也很著急這個解凍案真的也要趕快送上來我們希望知道您的業務非常繁忙但是既然這麼急著預算恐怕在解凍的書面報告上面也要稍微花點心思我們回到我們今天的主題來看院長不知道有沒有看到"},{"start":10311.413,"end":10338.302,"text":"這個國科會的吳承文主委在日前他有表示他說台灣沒有諾貝爾獎的得主真是丟臉這話其實有一點重那我們中研院作為最高的研究單位也參與過很多的國際會議會集了無數的精英學者在這裡我們過去李遠哲前院長他是第一個獲獎的台灣人翁啟惠前院長也差一點點他其實就有可能會獲得諾貝爾獎"},{"start":10340.223,"end":10351.459,"text":"所以中研院可以說是可能會去催生出台灣這個本土諾貝爾獎得主的一個地方那你是如何看待吳主委這個語重心長的一個說法"},{"start":10352.674,"end":10373.334,"text":"布洛貝爾講 他其實是要表彰對全人類有重大貢獻的研究這個我理解 但是他說我們一直沒有這個得主是丟臉的事情所以我們不能捨本逐末我們要先追求我們研究有沒有辦法對全世界人類造成重大貢獻"},{"start":10375.856,"end":10398.665,"text":"有很多很好貢獻的研究成果不一定拿到諾貝爾獎所以我們應該追求的是我理解您的說法那我請教您一您看當前我們台灣的學術環境以及研究經費等等的相關條件足不足夠能夠催生出我們本土諾貝爾獎的得主目前的客觀條件確實是比較困難"},{"start":10400.166,"end":10428.563,"text":"你覺得如果說是不夠的話是大概欠缺哪些地方欠缺哪方面的條件我們主要是需要有一個很好的條件吸引很好的人才什麼樣的條件需要薪水要很高然後研究經費要很多最重要就是全民要善待這些研究人員不要受政治干預太多希望說研究人員能夠專心做研究能夠鼓勵他們有企圖心往前衝"},{"start":10429.403,"end":10438.376,"text":"院長我想您講的這些本身都非常的認同真的非常認同但我們就是要慢慢朝這個方向去做不足的要想辦法補起來那當然你也參與過無數的國際會議了那也跟很多諾貝爾獎世界各國諾貝爾獎得主的交流過"},{"start":10445.046,"end":10469.887,"text":"所以您應該對於這個獲得諾貝爾獎的這個想法就像您剛剛所說的這樣那既然你有這麼多的想法那我們的這個吳主委也是就是求好心切的說出這樣的重話那我們的部長啊其實在當時有些表述那不曉得這個說法之後您有沒有跟我們的吳主委還有鄭部長去討論過這個事情因為事實上我想我們三個部長兩個部長跟院長是息息相關的嘛"},{"start":10471.095,"end":10488.474,"text":"事實上之前我們也討論過類似的問題最主要是如何建構台灣一個很好的研究環境所以這個說法之後你們有討論過嗎就這個說法沒有針對這個說法討論過可能找個時間三個人聊一聊我覺得對這個是會有幫助的好不好"},{"start":10489.815,"end":10519.075,"text":"我想在吴组委2月中旬说出这个言论之后我看到中研院有发出一个新闻稿你有说世界和平基金会启动了一个台湾桥梁计划要邀请中研院台大 清大等等我们在台湾很多知名的大学一起参与要在今年的11月到2026明年的4月期间至少来接待至少25位诺贝尔奖得主来台湾交流我觉得听到这个消息我觉得很棒"},{"start":10519.455,"end":10547.651,"text":"那不曉得這是本來的既定計畫還是我們吳主委說完之後我們趕快來做了這個很早以前就既定計畫嘛那本席看到中研院負責邀請跟接待大概是十位諾貝爾獎得主那其中包含了這個諾貝爾和平獎一位物理學獎三位生理學跟醫學獎三位跟化學獎三位嘛那不曉得啊就是來這麼棒的一個人才來這邊跟我們交流我們要用什麼樣的形式來跟他做交流那這個規劃什麼時候可以完成"},{"start":10549.042,"end":10562.389,"text":"官員國際處處長報告我們現在的交流形式第一個就是所有的得主他都會給一個公開演講這個公開演講是大家都可以去參與的不是只有中研院所以我們希望開放讓全民都可以聽到這個諾貝爾得獎組的演講"},{"start":10565.25,"end":10581.191,"text":"所有的大專院校所有的民眾都有機會是不是那很棒啊那這個相關的計畫這樣好不好我沒有那麼多時間讓你全部闡述完但是我覺得這很重要能不能把書面的報告提供給我們辦公室好不好我其實覺得委員會的委員都可以知道一下好不好"},{"start":10582.372,"end":10603.145,"text":"那我想那個積蓄院長 曾當道別院長得主來台交流是非常之有助於我們這個學術啊 這個眼界也好啊 經驗也好嘛那可是我看到這一次我們這個台灣橋樑計畫是由這個世界和平基金會來主辦的我擔心是不是就只有這一次那如果感覺這是很好的有沒有可能未來是由我們中研院來把它變成常態性的計畫"},{"start":10604.245,"end":10626.561,"text":"我們一直都每年都有邀請兩三位諾貝爾獎得主來院演講這一次是因為這個和平基金會他要一次邀請這麼多他輪流在世界不同的國家做這樣的活動所以明年不太可能再有二十幾位也沒那麼多諾貝爾獎了沒有關係我想因為要做到這樣子要做到這樣子恐怕做成常態性他是有難度的"},{"start":10626.841,"end":10644.357,"text":"但是像您說的兩位三位五位八位我覺得其實真的可以我覺得眾議院常態性來做這件事如果這次的經驗又可以作為一個很好的一個吸收未來我們就這樣做好不好我們幾乎每年至少有一位幾乎好我們繼續加強接下來我想繼續請教一下廖院長我看到你3月26號接受媒體的專訪"},{"start":10646.178,"end":10661.701,"text":"那這個議題上面都繞著我們國家的能源跟科技發展那不管是這個淨零核能AI量子科技生技等等那你還提出了這個淨零五支箭那整個看起來好像都是比較在這個著重在科學研究"},{"start":10662.282,"end":10688.857,"text":"但是事實上我們按照中研院主持法第二條規定我們其實還有這個人文社會科學的一個研究那去年我們在審查預算的時候我記憶還猶新我們所有的這個委員大家其實都在講說過去我們都在講說這個中研院是重理工輕人文我們也希望能夠在這個人文跟社會科學上面多下點功夫但是這個訪談當中我們沒有看到這個相關的計畫不知道是不是就是這幾年來我們還是沒有在人文科學上面"},{"start":10689.797,"end":10710.37,"text":"做一些比較相關的計畫或是琢磨那倒不是這樣我們在人文方面投資非常多譬如說我們有這個人文精英獎學金計畫我們就資助全台灣的人文界的博士生每年挑選15位郵政院的資助好 那院長那天為什麼沒有提到"},{"start":10712.085,"end":10727.262,"text":"沒有問到而已沒有問到好像我沒有提到只是沒有登出來好像我沒有提到就是有提到對 但是我看到有一些你也會把它主動提起來那我們想就是說如果從你口中說出來應該是現在覺得非常重視的因為我們這個提過好幾次所以記者可能認為說未來我想這個方向"},{"start":10727.842,"end":10742.677,"text":"我們還是要加強好不好再來我想說我們再來談一下我們今天談到很多國家能源發展還有淨零轉型院長您也是國家氣候變遷對策委員會的副召集人我們來討論一件事情也就是說"},{"start":10743.197,"end":10762.735,"text":"在今年的我們看到是在這個1月23號公布的國家減碳新目標的草案當中相較於基準年就2005我們的目標是2032年要減量這個32%左右然後呢2035年要減量38%那但是您知道第一階段的2020年的目標是要減碳多少嗎"},{"start":10765.177,"end":10787.373,"text":"2020的我忘記2020要減多少2%對但是我們做到了嗎沒有你都不知道要減多少都知道沒有做到我知道說我們沒有達成差一點2%但我們只做到1.89那在2025年的時候我們的目標是要這個能夠減10%但是我們去看2021年我們沒有減反而增加了2.22%2023年的時候我們反而增加了10.39%"},{"start":10792.677,"end":10810.471,"text":"那你要怎麼樣在第二階段的2025年能夠達到這個減10%的一個這個基準這個我真的很懷疑啦所以我們按照這個數據看起來我們是這個叫做碳排量不減反增而且呢我們想要這個目標做出來越減越多那這個怎麼會是這樣能不能說明一下"},{"start":10811.945,"end":10830.779,"text":"這部分因為不是眾議院的全責範圍我們只是從科技的角度看怎麼樣幫忙國家減碳我們不設定減碳的目標那我們盡量能夠做多少做多少最後請教一下這個減碳越減越多您知道台灣前十大碳盤試驗是什麼嗎"},{"start":10835.931,"end":10860.324,"text":"從供給量來講台灣的碳排有50%是來自發電來我跟您提好了前十大的碳排七個發電廠兩個鋼鐵一個石化所以院長你曾經以多次以科學家的身份說台灣不能全依賴綠能但也不能全依賴核能這個淨零不能排除任何一種能源但事實上我們的發電如果沒有辦法轉型為低碳或者綠能是很難達到這個淨零碳排的你認為是嗎"},{"start":10861.804,"end":10877.653,"text":"對是的好所以我想去年我們質詢了去碳燃氣的技術之外那中研院正在發展這個高效能的太陽能板來增加原有的發電量希望達到50%那我想請教一下那我們這個高效太陽能板什麼時候可以研製出來來進行計轉委員在這裡"},{"start":10882.679,"end":10895.556,"text":"今天就有啊昨天出來的30%的高效太陽板全部都是國內自研自製連設備都是國內製的真的很棒啊非常好我們詳細請理事長主任來說明一下"},{"start":10897.619,"end":10915.219,"text":"我是關鍵中心主任李超煌 那麼目前這個技術我們在3月26號有開了一個技術說明會那麼國內主要的太陽能廠商 相關的廠商也都有派代表來參加那麼目前已經有兩家這個相當大的大廠有表示意願要加入這個研發聯盟"},{"start":10916.681,"end":10940.937,"text":"好那最後一個問題我就問院長一句話我們剛剛在講說既然我們都研發出來了那你有沒有信心在你的目標2032年跟2035年能達到減碳32%跟38%的目標這方面我沒有仔細來估算因為我們不是全責單位所以至於實際減碳多少這不是中央醫院的全責所以很抱歉這方面我沒有"},{"start":10941.277,"end":10957.807,"text":"但是我們希望各部會我們還是要橫向聯繫那不是說這個不是我的那我覺得大家橫向聯繫才有辦法達到目標好不好好謝謝好謝謝萬美玲委員院長請回我們接下來請范雲委員謝謝莊委有請院長好有請廖院長"},{"start":10973.247,"end":10986.454,"text":"院長早安首先肯定我們院長在預算期間就是努力的為中研院預算被動山發聲我想就是您可以看到其實我們全國人民是非常支持"},{"start":10986.954,"end":11002.621,"text":"中研院的那只是很不幸在這個過程中帶領煽動預算的居然是我們中研院出身的民眾黨的黃國昌立委那當時我個人也非常的努力就是為中研院發聲因為他顯然當時不知道他的統山就把中研院包進去然後還說他沒有針對中研院那我想這個過程非常的遺憾"},{"start":11012.265,"end":11025.193,"text":"當然就是我之前還大概了解一下中研院被煽動的情況剛剛很多委員都講過就不再重複我們翁教授也在場希望今天法律所也可以好好的講一下他的煽動到底對法律所有怎麼樣的影響非常遺憾都是學界同仁帶領煽動中研院的預算"},{"start":11033.999,"end":11039.065,"text":"那今天呢 除了可以了解我蠻認同剛剛我們趙薇講的就是藍百緯就是說主動殺然後後來又主動說你們趕快來解凍喔因為每個解凍報告 中英如果寫不好到時候也會被修理嘛"},{"start":11049.597,"end":11075.723,"text":"本來就是需要時間而且我相信眾議院的嚴謹程度絕對不會就是隨便回應的因為每一個委員的要求不一樣那這部分我非常認同剛剛的召委的回應那教文委員沒有辦法在自己的黨團去護衛自己的預算那最後來這邊說教文都是不分黨派支持我覺得從民眾角度來看無法理解就是說今天他們的說辭我今天想要針對"},{"start":11077.083,"end":11083.212,"text":"我的預算案裡面也有相關的要求就是大型學術會議應該要落實無障礙配套這個措施那我想院長要關切的議題很多那這題特別希望院長要特別的關心那為什麼我這樣講"},{"start":11093.286,"end":11109.047,"text":"其實我過去也不夠了解這個大型會議到底無障礙要做哪些會以為說就是空間無障礙我去年代表民進黨去參加美國民主黨的全國代表大會上"},{"start":11109.968,"end":11122.777,"text":"就看到現在一個大型會議的無障礙以他參與的人數的部分也讓院長您了解他真的做得非常的細緻從你落地搭飛機到場就是輪椅族嬰兒車的優先然後全程都有無障礙的接駁巴士現場機場甚至還有輪椅維修服務如果在旅行的過程中輪椅出事的話那更不用講就是手語翻譯我們坐在那兒在哪個角度都看得到"},{"start":11138.589,"end":11153.287,"text":"即時的字幕現在也因為有那個AI也變得非常的容易甚至還有感官配套提供給感官敏感者包含降噪耳機還會提醒你不要用強烈的香水因為有一些感官敏感者"},{"start":11153.968,"end":11176.505,"text":"那這些部分呢我覺得非常的重要那我也要特別提一下那大家知道就是民進黨之前我們不分區的候選人陳俊翰律師他的研究就是國際人權身心障礙政策那他過世前其實就在中研院的法律所擔任博士後研究員"},{"start":11177.305,"end":11193.324,"text":"那我們可以想像他今天在中研院法律所如果待得更久的話他要參加國際會議的時候中研院的國際會議有沒有提供就是讓他能夠跟其他人一樣平等參與的那我們知道他的母親"},{"start":11194.965,"end":11201.809,"text":"謝繼珍女士提供了她非常多超越政府補助的個人的協助可是如果陳俊漢律師還在的話他想要參與台時所的研究國際會議法律所的國際會議"},{"start":11209.873,"end":11233.808,"text":"那他有沒有辦法得到一個平等的參與權那這是我想用這個部分來請命那我請辦公室研究了一下我們發現英美大學澳洲學術計畫那更不用講聯合國都有無障礙會遇指南非常的重視身心障礙像我們陳俊翰律師那還有包含懷孕者親子高敏感等多元的面向"},{"start":11234.528,"end":11262.743,"text":"那這部分其實在網路上稍微查一下都可以看到非常完整的會議指南所以我有一個就是預算的相關的部分我這邊再舉例來講那它裡面包含就是無障礙廁所補給乳室那這補給乳室其實中研院早就我們過去婦女團就要求就已經有做到了優先車位還有提供電子文件大字幕手語翻譯那當然就是托育的服務等等也會考量"},{"start":11264.164,"end":11285.256,"text":"交通城鄉差距盡可能的提供接駁或者是線上會議等所以你可以看到他是鼓勵更多人都能夠平等的參與學術的活動那我今天想問就是說院長您覺得中研院作為國家級的研究機構是否應該加強無障礙會議的基本規範呢是"},{"start":11288.308,"end":11314.986,"text":"您很認同是喔那再來我就想跟您對話一下就是我之前提出的預算案那中雲有給我一個初步的回應說你們已經做到的部分第一個你們有喊轉衛福部的無障礙會議指示指引給轄下單位就是在座的各位的各所所長應該都有看到這個公文喔那你們說有部分大型會議有調查並提供無障礙服務"},{"start":11316.147,"end":11326.331,"text":"我覺得這是一個很好的開始那之前我的預算案就是你們有做到這個部分可是我今天想再往前走一步因為我剛以陳俊翰律師為例他不會只參加不分大型會議是應該要以院的層級落實無障礙的措施針對不同規模的會議訂定一個分級的標準"},{"start":11339.836,"end":11353.928,"text":"譬如說如果人很少的會議那也許是調查與會者基本的需求等等那為什麼我對中研院有這個要求因為我覺得中研院有這麼多的人才如果你們能做出來其實其他的大學甚至國科會他才能夠跟你們學習"},{"start":11357.071,"end":11378.699,"text":"所以今天因為時間剩下的不多所以今天想請院長能不能夠參考國外的案例我剛剛講的是請我們辦公室的團隊研究的那已經有這麼多的會議指標了訂定符合國際標準的無障礙和共融會議的辦理原則然後開始試辦呢我們朝這方向努力"},{"start":11383.151,"end":11410.431,"text":"好 朝這方向努力那院長您覺得大概多少的時間能夠就是了解然後訂出然後開始試辦呢了解跟訂出比較容易那真正開始試辦那可能要看這個實際的經費允許狀況那跟實際的需求所以這方面我們會了解之後才開始做"},{"start":11410.931,"end":11438.848,"text":"那了解大概需要多少時間呢譬如說就給我一個初步報告的部分先就了解然後試辦的話可以晚一點沒關係總務處處長報告應該是一個月內就可以把它了解然後給一個初步的說明給委員那就希望是總務處這個事情不應該再丟給各所去做因為總務處應該就有這個研究能力因為我認識中研院很多學者他們會覺得我的質詢就增加了他們的工作量我們會同意訂定以後讓各個單位他們參與意見"},{"start":11440.729,"end":11463.504,"text":"好那這樣非常好我相信那個總務處有這個研究能力那試辦的部分是不是之後也一併給我一個報告因為等到你們知道那個原則之後應該就知道比如說我是一年內還是甚至要兩年內才能開始試辦好不好我們是要給你們合理的那我相信你們做得到的話可以帶領我們全國的各級學術會議未來到其他型的會議都能夠做到那陳俊翰律師"},{"start":11464.324,"end":11477.332,"text":"那他走的時候 法律所還特別發聲明 感念他的貢獻那我相信 這個貢獻 不會只是感念應該要落實在具體的政策跟作為中 好嗎好 謝謝好 那謝謝院長好 謝謝范雲委員院長請回我們接下來請翁曉琳委員 時間四分鐘"},{"start":11492.779,"end":11493.339,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":11516.129,"end":11535.052,"text":"更好那麼雖然說當然他已經在我們國內的法研所的法律領域裡面表現得非常傑出但是我還是希望能夠更上一層樓不過就是從院長您今天的這個簡報裡面我還是沒有看到在人文組作業研究成果裡面有哪一個是屬於法律所的"},{"start":11535.452,"end":11535.592,"text":"主凡不及備載"},{"start":11558.328,"end":11561.491,"text":"我們就10分鐘可以報告我們有33個所中心 假如一個一個報的話我們一個所大概只能報10秒鐘"},{"start":11575.425,"end":11597.617,"text":"是了解就像是我咨询只有四分钟所以我真的没有办法好好的让这个法研所来说一下它的重要研究成果是的我有后来有看到只是说在院长您的简报里面似乎就没有特别提到法研所好那接下来我想要请教院长您预计未来十年我们中研院可能会培育出一个诺贝尔奖得主吗"},{"start":11599.286,"end":11618.437,"text":"我們希望說不要以任何特殊的獎項來當個目標我們做學術研究應該以創造知識貢獻社會為目標而不是以拿任何獎項為目標否則的話我們會過得很辛苦"},{"start":11618.837,"end":11645.474,"text":"是的 我非常同意这个院长您的看法但是您知道吗我们现在国内学界设置了多少奖项对 这个部分的话或许中研院之后也可以好好检讨需不需要用奖项来作为比如说经历薪资啦各方面的奖补助的一个标准那接下来我想请问一下这个院长您知道这个英国有个Nature这个期刊吧是的英国Nature期刊的公信力为何嗯"},{"start":11648.138,"end":11671.381,"text":"期刊看看哪一部分的公信力在自然科學領域裡面呢在這個他發表文章都相當有影響力那他有一些被人家詬病的地方但是他也有他的貢獻所以每一個方向並不是說百分之百他就是完全是是大家一致公認但是也是確實是相當好的一個期刊"},{"start":11671.701,"end":11694.227,"text":"好的 那么我要讲就是说英国的Nature期刊它公布的自然指数就是Nature Index其实它就全球的整体研究学术机构的排名那我们看到一个趋势这是本席所做的一些小小的study从2013年到2024年我们可以看到中研院的整体的排名从2013年的136名一直下滑到2024年的340亿名"},{"start":11698.968,"end":11726.329,"text":"這是大家詬病的地方因為Nature Index它一個很特殊的計算方法一篇paper假如有三個單位掛名就除以3一個單位掛名就除以1中文院近年來就鼓勵跟大學合作特別是我們的研究生每一個都是大學所以幾乎每一篇paper至少有中文院跟一個大學所以我們至少我們的paper的數量就被除以2除以3甚至除以4"},{"start":11727.189,"end":11736.353,"text":"你這種方式除此之外這個Nature Index又沒有把人文放進去是謝謝院長因為我已經沒有時間了對我想就是說基本上您會認為說就是Nature Index它所做的這個統計數據基本上並不是很符合我們中研院這邊的這個發表的情況那麼但是我要講一個事實就是說您看看我們政府給中研院的預算從2018年到2024年是算是一個非常就是每年提高"},{"start":11757.061,"end":11766.714,"text":"而且它這個成長的比例非常之高我的意思就是說其實中研院每年拿的預算大概就平均差不多130億到150億左右可是在Nature Index的排名數據呢卻是逐步的下滑"},{"start":11772.922,"end":11793.098,"text":"雖然說是中研院或是其他國內大學可能有很多維持對於這個Nature Index所做的排名統計不是認為很客觀但是它就是一個事實在全球的排名裡面來看我們可以知道它的確是一個問題那麼我接下來要講的就是說我不認為它是一個問題我認為它只是一個指標我們不應該跟著一個商業機構的一個指標來後面進行"},{"start":11797.281,"end":11799.282,"text":"如果這樣的話其實我建議中研院幹隊退出這個排名根本就不用去參與這個排名不是我們自己參加我們沒有參加可是說實在話這個其實也是有點這個我認為是太駝鳥了對不對我們還是要去面對這個全世界的排名我們接下來看一下這個"},{"start":11817.551,"end":11844.79,"text":"我们知道其实中研院在2013年的时候当时的排名都还有大概140几名130几名那么之后是逐年下滑我现在拿中研院跟中国科学院香港城市大学跟广州晋南大学这个是广州晋南大学大家知道这个是最近我们教育部还有我们行政院宣告不可以跟广州晋南大学去"},{"start":11845.931,"end":11847.992,"text":"就不承認廣州近南大學的學歷可是看看廣州近南大學它在2017年當時的排名是418名到了2024年它的排名已經躍升為130名那麼我們的中研院"},{"start":11861.858,"end":11884.13,"text":"中研院在2017年的時候當時的排名應該是211名到了2024年排名下跌到341名更不用說我們今天跟中國科學院來比中國科學院從2013年一直到現在還始終都是No.1那我要講就是說他們的機會比我們大多少他們人數比我們大多少他們的社會上國家的支持比我們大多少"},{"start":11885.411,"end":11907.586,"text":"我們現在是要馬而跑 又要馬而不吃草 這不可能達成的事情那我們再來看看中研院跟國內大學的排名中研院可以跟台大比吧 中研院拿的預算跟台大是差不多的我們剛才講過 中研院的所有paper都要被除以二除以三而且我們人數少 而且我們的人文科學沒有放在裡面"},{"start":11908.286,"end":11924.254,"text":"中研院拿的預算的確是相當於台大比太多的大學的預算都拿的多今天我其實只是想要呈現一個事實就是說中研院我認為中研院就是應該要虛心檢討看有沒有熱情在改進的空間我們看看中研院跟台大的排名就知道不好意思我這邊數字有點錯誤"},{"start":11931.477,"end":11957.564,"text":"事實上2013年的時候中研院的排名是136然後台大是102你可以看到這次當然整體來講是下滑但是中研院的表現還是沒有台大好我要講的一個事實就是中研院以你們的規模你們的人數你們的經費來講它其實真的是全台灣拿的研究經費最多的單位但是跟其他的大學相比"},{"start":11959.128,"end":11982.234,"text":"事實上你們的表現沒有特別好所以我認為其實在各個領域裡面還有進步的空間我們是有進步的空間但請委員了解你從不同的鄰近看可以看到不同的長相所以中文院確實是有可以虛心檢討的地方我們確實是應該做得更好但是我想"},{"start":11982.734,"end":12005.163,"text":"我們不能用任何一個這個數字指標來否定說中央醫院這幾年的進步我們有更需要的地方你說中央醫院你的排名有上升的時候你就會說我認為說這個NATURE INDEX的這個數字基本上是可信的它基本上它的指標是正確的但是因為我們看到這個趨勢是逐漸下滑然後這時候院長又說這個指標不可信不好意思 超時太久了"},{"start":12005.723,"end":12031.389,"text":"可不可以会后请院长在书面报告给您好不好不好意思对我想在这边话就是最后我还是说我的看法我对中研院是爱之深则之切我希望院长能够跟你们同仁好好的再去思考怎么样能够提升中研院的研究能量我想所有所长都在这边都听到了谢谢大家都会努力还有就是其他的自家科学领域也是一样的谢谢"},{"start":12034.449,"end":12040.273,"text":"謝謝 謝謝謝謝翁小玲委員 院長請回好 我們接下來請羅廷偉委員好 謝謝召委 有請院長好 有請廖院長"},{"start":12058.779,"end":12083.1,"text":"好 院長好院長 國科會吳承文主委說過台灣經濟實力已經在世界20左右那可是幾十年的努力之下來連一個諾貝爾獎都沒有實在是很丟臉 這他說的那日本於1996年通過了科學技術基本法成立了科學技術委員會透過了保障科研的預算等方式那我們看到他們如此之重視"},{"start":12083.76,"end":12109.379,"text":"那提高了日本的科學技術水準2001年修訂通過第二版的科學技術基本法明確指出50年要拿下30個諾貝爾獎那目前呢日本已經有29位諾貝爾獎得主其中有一位是團體的那台灣呢台灣土生土長唯一目前拿過諾貝爾獎是1986年的李遠哲我們前院長那最靠近最靠近諾貝爾獎的是2022年翁啟惠前院長"},{"start":12112.381,"end":12126.935,"text":"那我想這兩位都來自中研院所以我想中研院讓我們有所期待那也希望在這樣的一個部分上院長你覺得提升一國的科研能力關鍵在於哪裡是政府的投資還不夠多嗎還需要更大量的預算嗎"},{"start":12127.355,"end":12148.306,"text":"需要有很好的土壤很好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠吸引人才才能讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下發揮他的創造力那希望能夠大家能夠給予支持給予鼓勵那跟這個國際一起競爭那我們要看到的是研究人員實際的貢獻對社會對學術方面的貢獻而不是單靠他的"},{"start":12154.009,"end":12177.119,"text":"功成名就之後才說給他拍手因為他得諾貝爾獎我們在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵給予經費上的最大彈性當然給予支持上我們當然都希望能夠給予一些支持所以你的說法就是不要只是得獎那你也否認了就是吳承文主委所說的連一個諾貝爾獎得主都沒有實在很丟臉這樣的說法你不一定認同"},{"start":12177.939,"end":12206.502,"text":"但是我想跟大家講是說那我想這個我們當然很希望說台灣有很多拿到很多世界第一拿到很多諾貝爾獎我們拿到世界冠軍這個也冠軍當然我們相信中研院現在所有的研究一定是希望社會能夠有所進步來幫忙做一些相關的研究我們都能夠知道但我們也希望讓世界看到台灣那目前我們現在最重要的問題是說我們現在一路走來台灣有很多的措施很多的政策頂大計畫"},{"start":12207.543,"end":12214.45,"text":"高教生跟玉山計畫等等會不會跟這些計畫的資源去過度的分散你覺得有可能嗎"},{"start":12217.179,"end":12245.008,"text":"這個很多問題那最主要是我們這個在學研界這個每一個人的方向目標沒有定得很清楚這是最近一直在講的不可能在座任何人把目標定在得諾貝爾獎至少這個人文學者就不能拿所以我們要把目標定清楚我們為什麼要做研究為什麼這個研究重要能夠闡述得清楚爭取立法院的同意"},{"start":12245.828,"end":12272.217,"text":"支持立法院也應該考量學術研究的特殊狀況那把跟政治性的跟一般機關的預算做分開的審查我們要的不僅是更多的資源我們要的是資源的彈性運用我們必須知道說我們眾院確實是拿了很多的資源但是不能用不好用是因為他之間沒有辦法留用很多譬如說設備費不能留用"},{"start":12273.777,"end":12289.777,"text":"那這個用人費不能留用等等的那加上這個最近有一些其他的限制這樣子我想跟你請教你剛剛有提到一些建議啦沒關係我都聽到如果能夠給予協助我們當然不讓我們都願意後續再有幫忙"},{"start":12292.861,"end":12310.525,"text":"但是學術上的一個建議呢是不是你也能夠給一些大家更多的一些建議我們看到日本有良好的科學科研環境那科學研究人員能在自己的計畫和支配研究工作也不會因為一段時間內沒有研究成果而影響評價但台灣好像跟日本不太一樣"},{"start":12310.885,"end":12333.728,"text":"是的我最近在大學校長會議給過一個演講我事後把演講的講稿提供給委員我們都希望能夠給科研人員有更多的一些彈性給予更多的空間這個平台能夠做好大環境做好是你剛剛第一句話沒錯對不對所以我們一起來努力我們提出了這樣子的問題我們看到了這樣的問題所以今天提出也會提出就代表要支持"},{"start":12335.25,"end":12363.388,"text":"會閒貨才會買貨嘛對不對好那中研院去年呢10月舉辦了一年一度的院區開放主題演說是未來世代的必修課能源與AI科技對吧還記得當時院長免利同學AI目前限制正式每一個人的一個機會希望未來世代勇於想像AI無法達成的事情將問題以及挑戰化為契機在去年7月中研院與AI辦公室要推動這一個"},{"start":12364.409,"end":12381.756,"text":"AI4OAS可不可以簡單介紹一下這是什麼這是我們希望的全院OASAS代表中央研究院的英文簡稱所以AI4OAS意思是說我們希望全院的人不論是你是研究人員你是研究助理或是行政人員大家都要"},{"start":12382.476,"end":12398.081,"text":"擁抱AI帶給我們的新契機大家都要適度的了解AI你或許沒辦法成為不應該期待你成為AI的專家但是你應該能夠用最新的AI技術來在你的研究上在你的行政上幫助你的日常業務"},{"start":12399.401,"end":12423.877,"text":"這樣子我講中研院也協力國科會推動深層式的AI這個Tide相信院長也都知道去年獲得諾貝爾物理學獎的一個辛頓教授研究人工智慧領域他在2023年離開Google一直在致力於談論急於目前推出深層式人工智慧產品的一個危險請問我們所推動的深層式AI是否有辛頓教授所說的一個風險"},{"start":12424.998,"end":12438.734,"text":"因為當然這個AI當然免不了被誤用的話絕對是有風險所以我們一方面要極力開發另一方面我們要極力思考這它對人類文明對社會安定所造成的一個風險"},{"start":12439.735,"end":12459.308,"text":"那院長中研院是否可以針對深圳市AI所進行可能性的一個問題研究盤整並且具體的建議到教育部目前的中小學數位教學指引的3.0以及校長數位學習的領導指引畢竟教育部"},{"start":12459.588,"end":12481.571,"text":"不是所謂的研究機構AI目前科技是日新月異我們也希望在這個前面第一線的研究單位你們最了解能夠在這個跨部會上給予合作給予協助給予建議這個部分可以嗎我們協助給予建議的這是可以我不確定說眾議院的專家有在您講這方面是有特別的研究"},{"start":12483.012,"end":12499.518,"text":"因為我想這個AI有相關的一些人工智慧的產品所帶來的一些風險那剛剛你說不免俗有可能那在這個研究上如果有找到一些問題對於教育部中小學的數位教學指引3.0給予一個建議我覺得這個部分應該是你們做得到的"},{"start":12500.018,"end":12524.898,"text":"因為你們畢竟是高位在看這件事情這個我想後面也有一些長官在點頭那應該是可以認同的我們不是找麻煩只是希望能夠讓這個東西更好謝謝委員提醒再來我想院長我很關心勞動權益的一個議題所以在去年預算審查的時候特別提出來政治所的徵才違法希望中委員要注意那你有掌握到嗎請政治所所長"},{"start":12527.031,"end":12536.33,"text":"我先請問一下 院長回去有盤點所有的單位徵才資訊或工作相關的規定嗎有沒有發現其他問題有 這請人事回答"},{"start":12537.831,"end":12563.984,"text":"委員好 人事室主任周培芳是有發現問題嗎我們院裡面非常重視勞基法的相關規範也很重視勞動權益我先問一下兩位請問這一份中央研究院工讀生僱用管理規定PTT這裡分別掛在中研院的網站跟中研院的總務處網站上請問這一份還有沒有在使用應該掛著應該還有在使用吧"},{"start":12571.136,"end":12579.189,"text":"有沒有這個綜藝院還有在徵公讀生喔在人文社會科學聯合圖書館"},{"start":12581.533,"end":12605.687,"text":"我想應該是有在使用了是的是的 對吧我們來講一下工讀生的僱用契約書第三項工作時間的第三點甲方如應經費受限請求乙方延長工時服務時乙方同意以補休假來做方式的處理不令知己延長工時的酬金院長你覺得這句話有沒有問題有問題嗎"},{"start":12611.67,"end":12611.811,"text":"人事處"},{"start":12615.747,"end":12641.854,"text":"我們原則上可以跟就是工讀生要求補就是協商要補休但是補休如果沒有協商是有討論的空間沒有補休完的話還是會給加班費但是在這一句上我覺得在用字譴責上我要先講院長這句話有問題因為加班費加班時加班費的請求權還沒有發生怎麼可以先要求要有拋棄"},{"start":12643.354,"end":12653.805,"text":"這一句話我覺得在實務上應該加完班後雇主才會去跟員工談能不能換補休這個既然委員提到務實上我們就談務實"},{"start":12655.546,"end":12679.873,"text":"每一個研究員都知道說自己手上經費有多少加班費付不出來的時候就必須要能夠控制說有多少人升級加班因為你們希望控制預算的使用並不會超支甚至付不出來但是我建議要修正因為討論的空間乾脆這一條就不要寫你們再去做導資這個部分的協商研究一下看說這怎麼做比較好"},{"start":12680.373,"end":12698.563,"text":"第二 如果工讀生僱用契約書要修正的話在第四項休假提及的《性別工作平等法》這部法律在2023年7月改為《性別平等工作法》建議一併修正啦沒事沒事不要說我們是雞蛋挑骨頭啦只是看到了這個問題順帶提到啦"},{"start":12701.124,"end":12720.797,"text":"那再來在第六項職業災害及普通傷害的一個補助應該要加上2021年制定的勞工職業災害保險及保護法最後中研院整個中央研究院工讀生雇用管理規定這份檔案在中研院網站跟中研院的總務處網站上掛的內容不一樣"},{"start":12721.778,"end":12745.331,"text":"院長你看一下這兩份最後修正的日期都是中華民國102年7月26日總務置地1020505343號修正也提及本規定經院長核定後執行的修正時異同但是為什麼同一個修正日期的檔案在工作時間的規定上是有不一樣的寫法"},{"start":12745.911,"end":12765.747,"text":"中研院的官網入口乙方工作時間每日不超過8小時每兩週不超過84小時但是在中研院的總務處網站檔案乙方正常工作的時間每日不超過8小時每週不超過40小時我想這兩個說法寫法都不一樣"},{"start":12767.632,"end":12789.993,"text":"這兩個寫法都沒問題但是呢到底哪一個才是正確的檔案我不太懂工作時從雙週的84小時變成單週的40小時是民國105年才開始實施的而中研院這樣子的工作工讀生的雇用管理規定呢最新的修正是在民國102年我想自己偷改不用報院長核定"},{"start":12792.654,"end":12815.416,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒跟提示這部分我們會一併檢討讓它有一致所以我所找出的問題是事實吧對不對是我們會回來檢討是不是應該馬上更正是的我想剛剛還是回到了我們希望不管是未來的工途生科研的環境那整個勞動的一個產業甚至這個環境都能夠有所提升我想這些細節今天沒有責難"},{"start":12817.217,"end":12824.843,"text":"我們都是希望讓整個環境更好只是提出到我所看到的一個問題在研究的過程發現的這些問題希望你們修正院長可以嗎好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝院長請回謝謝羅廷偉委員"},{"start":12833.507,"end":12857.603,"text":"好 我們再來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在我們請張家俊委員張家俊張家俊委員不在我們請鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌鍾嘉斌委員不在我們請鄭振淺鄭振淺鄭振淺委員不在我們請林德福林德福林德福委員不在我們請楊瓊英楊瓊英楊瓊英委員不在"},{"start":12862.626,"end":12888.108,"text":"我們今天登記質詢均已發言完畢關於今天會議做如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢及相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆的部分也請相關機關盡速書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"},{"start":12897.465,"end":12897.625,"text":"這個位置"},{"start":12920.942,"end":12922.022,"text":"謝謝您的收看"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}