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徐永梅"},{"start":2090.68,"end":2113.778,"text":"研究設計會主任張雅光理兵處處長陳欣欣秘書處處長陳景林人事處處長呂士儀政風處公使韓建豪主計處長林佩華"},{"start":2121.215,"end":2127.818,"text":"資訊及電務處處長林啟文公眾外交協調會執行長蕭光維國際事務辦公室執行長陳剛毅非政府組織國際事務會執行長江振維"},{"start":2153.234,"end":2179.309,"text":"台灣日本關係協會副秘書長林佑慧台灣美國事務委員會秘書長邱高維外交及國際事務學院主任秘書蘇秋熙領事事務局代理局長陳尚友"},{"start":2182.109,"end":2205.795,"text":"財團法人國際合作發展發展基金會秘書長黃毅林財團法人台灣民主基金會執行長廖建齊廖達齊抱歉那介紹經濟部的政務次長江文洛"},{"start":2209.048,"end":2221.999,"text":"產業發展署檢任計政鄭先佑國際貿易署副署長福啟堅投資審議司副市長蘇啟彥副主任委員沈宥忠"},{"start":2239.705,"end":2251.568,"text":"大陸委員會大陸委員會的這個副主任委員沈憂忠經濟處處長葉凱平綜合規劃處副處長陳淑娟陳淑媚抱歉常務次長謝玲媛財政部的常務次長那"},{"start":2270.479,"end":2295.251,"text":"負稅署副署長陳惠琦官務署主任秘書江惠君中國輸出入銀行副總經理王挺傑國家發展委員會副主任委員高仙貴經濟發展處副署長陳美菊"},{"start":2300.484,"end":2324.252,"text":"行政經貿談判辦公室副總談判談判代表嚴慧欣中央銀行副總裁朱美麗補充介紹王帝穎委員"},{"start":2332.862,"end":2346.905,"text":"確定議事錄請問在場的委員對於上次會議議事錄有無遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有好那議事錄確定"},{"start":2350.387,"end":2372.036,"text":"本日會邀請外交部、經濟部、大陸委員會、財政部、國家發展委員會行政院經貿談判辦公室及中央銀行報告美國開放全球貿易制裁及以中共競可下我外交經貿戰略布局及因應並備詢質詢"},{"start":2375.777,"end":2380.677,"text":"一首先請外交部我們林佳龍部長來上台"},{"start":2389.475,"end":2415.763,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安承蒙貴會邀請外交部前來就美國開啟全球貿易制裁與中共競合下我外交經貿戰略部局及因應來進行專題報告並備質詢以下請提出本部說明敬請主席及各位委員不吝指教首先川普政府自上任後就推出了一系列的經貿政策"},{"start":2417.301,"end":2436.316,"text":"那麼只盼達成與外國貿易公平互惠美國再工業化製造業及供應鏈重回美國以及維持美國在人工智慧等高科技產業之領導地位那同時呢以積極的方式促進吸引各國赴美投資設廠等為目標"},{"start":2438.197,"end":2452.606,"text":"那麼基於此川普總統在美東時間4月2號在白宮發表演說宣布新關稅措施包括你自4月5日起對所有國家進口貨品課徵10%的基礎關稅並自4月9日起對包含台灣在內的近60個國家課徵對等關稅"},{"start":2461.812,"end":2478.477,"text":"那麼其中你對台灣課徵32%的關稅那半導體跟藥品等這樣或豁免那麼隨即呢就在4月9日開始實施的時候呢川普總統那麼除了針對中國提高關稅到125%那麼"},{"start":2488.25,"end":2505.813,"text":"對於75個國家已經跟美國已經有表達要進行關稅談判那麼他再給予90天暫停措施那只苛徵10%的基礎關稅那麼而且即刻生效"},{"start":2507.108,"end":2522.952,"text":"因此我們對於台美有關於關稅談判的一個進行我們也一方面做好了各種方案的準備同時對於台美之間談判的方式有關於進行已經也建立了溝通聯繫的管道"},{"start":2530.117,"end":2557.267,"text":"那麼總統特別是在今天一個國際媒體上有發表完整的深化台美經貿關係路徑圖這裡面有很詳細的來說明特別是總統在本月六日說明的政府的五項應變策略包括透過談判改善對等關稅提出產業支持計畫"},{"start":2558.615,"end":2568.734,"text":"提出中長期經濟發展計畫以及台灣加一佈局美國及全球市場另外就是傾聽產業的聲音外交部可持續積極的協同國內"},{"start":2571.79,"end":2599.651,"text":"相關的部會推動應變的策略那今天呢總統的這個路徑圖的完整的一個內容我想在國際上一定會引起很大的重視我們不只是被動的要回應川普提出的對等關稅我們希望能夠積極的來推動台美經澳關係的一個深化特別是總統提到的台灣投資美國隊"},{"start":2600.692,"end":2614.037,"text":"那我們怎麼樣充分利用美國的龐大的市場他們的科技資金跟人才也可以讓台灣的產業能夠有新的佈局那在供應鏈重組的此時能夠有一個更有競爭力的一個國際的地位"},{"start":2618.559,"end":2638.611,"text":"那關於具體的我們跨部會的應變措施主要有幾下幾點那麼首先是擴大對煤採購以降低貿易逆差行政院基於我國家安全及利益已經完成盤點對農 工 石油 天然氣等產品的大量採購計畫各項採購都會積極來進行那外交部也持續跟各部會協調確保各項計畫能夠順利的來推動"},{"start":2646.616,"end":2660.727,"text":"那麼另外就是擴大對美國的投資讓台美經貿合作更緊密提升台灣經貿戰略地位除了台積電目前宣布對美國再投資1000億美元那就合計超過1650億美元的投資以外那麼"},{"start":2665.951,"end":2691.099,"text":"美國白宮也有聲明已經多次將台灣承諾對擴大美國的投資列為重要的政績那凸顯台美雙方是互利共榮的供應鏈的關係那另外一方面在能源的採購和投資方面特別是阿拉斯加的石油那麼中油已經公司跟他們簽訂了這個未來的合作的一個意向書"},{"start":2692.279,"end":2711.95,"text":"那其他的投資項目還包括像AI非常多的這些資通訊的產業等行政院也做好了盤點具體的項目跟金額此外我國企業也響應美國商務部舉辦的選擇美國投資高峰會就是SelectUSA"},{"start":2713.001,"end":2731.117,"text":"那麼外交部將與相關部會共同協助我業者了解赴美投資環境並結合台美雙方的優勢增進台美經貿關係及加強公年的合作以提升台灣整體經貿戰略地位那麼SelectUSA是在5月上中旬就即將來舉辦"},{"start":2733.919,"end":2755.099,"text":"那麼未來隨著業者赴海外的佈局投資供應鏈韌性將更為加強亦有助於台美共建緊密的網路協助雙方企業在彼此市場共拓商機就是包括我們也期待美方能夠組成美國投資台灣隊以對等互惠的方式來深化台美的經貿夥伴的關係"},{"start":2757.361,"end":2784.437,"text":"另外呢在台美貿易產業貿易結構的互補性台灣是美國重建製造業及鞏固高科技領導地位中不可或缺的重要夥伴那也盼藉由此事那麼尋求台美雙邊貿易平衡的合理性的同時能夠來增強彼此的一個夥伴關係那由於我國跟美國共享民主自由及法治的價值而且具備串聯產業完整上下游的能力"},{"start":2785.297,"end":2803.068,"text":"也秉持了政治民主經濟自由開放對國際社會負責任的原則台灣是美國打造重要戰略產業供應鏈的最佳夥伴外交部及我駐美國各管處也持續對外強化以上的論述彰顯台灣對全球高科技供應鏈的貢獻"},{"start":2804.807,"end":2826.582,"text":"那麼再者我政府將持續透過如台美經濟環融夥伴對話這些既有的機制就EPPD那麼討論雙方關切的議題以深化互惠互利的夥伴關係那包括到第三國的投資包括我們的邦交國包括理念相近的國家那麼持續來推動解決台美雙重"},{"start":2828.184,"end":2846.999,"text":"剋稅的問題減少雙邊投資負擔而進一步擴展台美經貿的一個關係那麼再來面對中國帶來的地緣政治的挑戰我政府將與民主夥伴合作打造堅韌的非紅供應鏈以提升我國的戰略地位"},{"start":2847.999,"end":2868.784,"text":"這是因為面對中國主導的紅色供應鏈以及低價請銷的衝擊台灣有能力也有意願跟民主陣營團結合作共同來維持民主夥伴的科技優勢結合我政府積極發展的五大信賴產業與民主夥伴來打造堅韌的非紅供應鏈以有效嚇阻威權主義的擴張"},{"start":2872.036,"end":2894.941,"text":"政府也提出了全球半導體民主供應鏈夥伴倡議利用尖端半導體的優勢盼與民主夥伴共同建立AI晶片產業鏈的全球聯盟同時對接川普政府重視的AI產業政策那麼台美是雙方強化經濟及能源韌性的重要合作夥伴除了這一個"},{"start":2895.987,"end":2919.455,"text":"半導體還有這些AI以外在能源方面如何增加能源更穩定而有競爭力的採購長期的投資也是一個更具有確保我們經濟安全甚至國家安全的必須要的一個手段因此在今年3月阿拉斯加州長"},{"start":2922.298,"end":2949.349,"text":"Dolivet應美台商會M-Trend邀請來參加謝年飯的活動期間雙方面有了深入的討論並由中油和阿拉斯加的油氣公司來簽訂了採購跟投資的意向書這都是具體被列為加強台美關係特別是能源的韌性跟安全重要的一個突破"},{"start":2950.233,"end":2969.227,"text":"那麼最後呢在推動我們的經濟外交上那行政院也成立了經濟外交工作小組那外交部負責策略規劃也與各相關部會建立起雙部長聯繫的會議那展開各個工作小組這裡面包括跟經濟部農業部還有"},{"start":2972.598,"end":2990.784,"text":"衛福部、教育部、環境部等這個機制也有助於展開對台美經貿的談判還有未來合作關係的促進最後在面對中國的威權擴張我們怎麼去鞏固邦交國的關係除了傳統的故邦我們也提出龍邦的計畫"},{"start":2991.764,"end":3006.45,"text":"那最主要是希望透過具體台灣的產業創新發展的經驗結合美日等友盟能夠到這些國家去投資其中一個例子就是在中美洲的瓜地馬拉"},{"start":3007.652,"end":3032.011,"text":"美國國務卿盧比歐在訪問中美洲的時候特別肯定瓜地馬拉跟台灣維持邦交關係但也期待台美合作共同能夠增加對瓜地馬拉的投資巴拉圭是南美洲另外一個例子我們的鄰居菲律賓也是台美在經貿合作也就是EPPD架構推動很重要合作的一個對象"},{"start":3032.631,"end":3054.673,"text":"那結合上他們提出的夥伴機會考察團那麼我們期待在陸續展開台美在第三國的投資還有經貿的合作那麼以上就是針對今天的主題做的一個簡要報告那敬請主席跟各位委員不吝指教謝謝"},{"start":3060.373,"end":3077.474,"text":"接著請經濟部姜次長進行報告主席各位委員大家好承蒙貴委員會邀請就"},{"start":3078.564,"end":3102.138,"text":"台美開啟全球貿易制裁及中共競合校我外交經貿戰略佈局及因應進行報告經濟部將針對當前美中關稅措施及政府佈局因應二要說明敬請各位委員不吝賜教有關美中關稅的說明因為美國對中國的關稅還有中國對美關稅有最新的進展"},{"start":3103.378,"end":3117.466,"text":"等一下我會用口頭來補充最新的進展首先在美國的關稅部分川普總統在今年的4月2號宣布從4月5號起對所有國家普遍加徵10%的關稅自4月9號起針對貿易逆差比較多的57國課徵11%到50%的關稅"},{"start":3125.951,"end":3146.836,"text":"另因为中国对美国科征报复性关税川普总统在4月9号宣布对中科征对等关税从34条升为84累计对中国科征的关税将达104%同日川普政府又再宣布对中国增加关税到125%立即生效"},{"start":3150.057,"end":3172.329,"text":"而對其他國家的對等關稅暫停90天暫停期間的稅率降到10%至於中國反制美國的關稅措施中國原以對美國的煤炭、原油、農產品加徵10%到15%的關稅在美國宣布科徵對等關稅之後再度在4月10日"},{"start":3173.55,"end":3188.97,"text":"再度宣布從4月10日起對自美所有的進口產品加徵34%的關稅又在4月9日起宣布對美國再加徵50%關稅所以整體的稅率增加到84%"},{"start":3191.253,"end":3209.238,"text":"為了貫徹賴總統價值外交的理念,行政院成立經濟外交工作小組,跨部會推行統合外交,落實總統經濟日不落國的理念。此外,行政院也成立了台美經貿工作小組,協調統合相關對美經貿戰略及因應對策。"},{"start":3212.839,"end":3238.885,"text":"相關的因應對策如下第一 透過談判決定爭取改善對等的關稅賴總統於4月發表談話由行政院政府院長領軍組成談判小組成員包括國安會 經貿談判辦公室行政院相關部會等而且擴大對美採購以降低貿易逆差行政院已經完成盤點農工 石油 天然氣等產品的大量採購計劃"},{"start":3241.088,"end":3256.559,"text":"經濟部帶領產業全球佈局美國雖然是非常重要的市場但它非單一的市場在經過美中貿易戰跟疫情的洗禮之後台昌透過多元佈局開拓新市場優化生產流程整合全球價值鏈"},{"start":3257.8,"end":3285.638,"text":"降低风险是在全球经济变局中维持竞争优势的关键鉴于美国加征关税将影响我部分厂商在海外的布局经济部会协助厂商调整供应链例如转移到美国或其他国家提供目标市场资讯观察等客制化的服务包括当地的投资法令市场机会以及协助寻找合作伙伴等确保台商得到最适切的支援"},{"start":3286.519,"end":3311.231,"text":"第三點,因應全球地緣政治變化以及迎接智慧化時代政府推動半導體、人工智慧、軍工等五大信賴產業的發展台灣有科技研發能力、工程人才以及完善的產業供應鏈與民主夥伴共同合作打造韌性非紅供應鏈鞏固科技關鍵地位、擴大需求、帶動產業發展"},{"start":3313.092,"end":3338.5,"text":"同时面对国际经济情势快速变化台湾也需要厚植国力强化产业韧性政府持续利用投资台湾三大方案协助我商及外商在我国站稳脚跟截至今年的3月28日总投资额约2兆5000多亿元超过1600家厂商透过审核预估会创造就业16万多人"},{"start":3339.764,"end":3357.334,"text":"行政院已經提出880億元的因應美國關稅我國出口供應鏈支持方案經濟部在工業方面提供了金融支持提升產業競爭力開拓多元市場三大面向總共四項支援措施包括"},{"start":3358.314,"end":3376.713,"text":"外銷貸款優惠保證對於受影響的企業經濟部將提供外銷貸款優惠信用保證透過高保證陳述保證額度及補貼保證手續費降低業者採購原料生產及出口周轉金等負擔協助多元佈局"},{"start":3377.844,"end":3390.267,"text":"二中小微企业的贷款为受影响的企业提供资金办理周转性支出及购置机器设备贷款并搭配利息补贴及信用保证"},{"start":3391.53,"end":3417.941,"text":"第三点,补助研发转型,鼓励售美,加征关税影响的制造业技术升级,双轴转型,取得海外订单或者认验证,打造更高规格的新产品维系产业竞争力。第四点,协助企业争取海外订单,补助企业海外新设展示中心,服务中心,发货仓库等实体据点或者代理经销商协助企业拓展国际市场。"},{"start":3419.67,"end":3446.748,"text":"同時為了防範中國可能會違規轉印或低價請銷或者中國可能會避開美國的政府實施違規轉印我國已經密切注意中國或者從第三國進口產品以及相關產品輸往美國的情形是否異常來採取救濟或防堵的措施為了防堵違規轉印會由海關進行邊境查驗如果有查獲出口人"},{"start":3447.548,"end":3466.418,"text":"由产地标示的不实的情形会移送经济部贸易署依贸易法处分出口人业者如果认为中国倾销会造成我国产业损害也可向财政部申请科征反倾销税财政部及经济部将依法进行调查"},{"start":3467.538,"end":3488.786,"text":"我政府的目标是让我国业者立足台湾布局全球加强美国行销权世界打造台湾成为经济日不落国政府会做产业的后盾让我国业者可以放心安心来投资也鼓励在地的企业跟由台湾扩大对台湾的投资经济部也将持续跨部会合作"},{"start":3489.486,"end":3501.514,"text":"與美方溝通確保我產業利益並關注美國關稅政策的演進及影響性密切掌握我業者需求強化產業競爭力以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝好"},{"start":3504.322,"end":3517.809,"text":"以上因我們外交部部長林部長10點後有要工離席所以我們就以其他的部會機關報告請蔡英業素面來資料"},{"start":3520.66,"end":3543.949,"text":"那现在开始寻答本会委员6加2分钟非本会委员5分钟10点半发言登记截止如有临时提案请在10点半前提出11点左右处理现在请王定一委员上台致请"},{"start":3553.939,"end":3567.429,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩外交部長林佳龍我們時間有限 我儘速請教幾個問題川普發布這個授權authorize這個90天的pause"},{"start":3577.117,"end":3590.065,"text":"當然前面有講因為基礎是根據75個國家以上提出相關的談判那昨天我在問國安局的時候其實就在詢問這個可能性也就是說在它執行的前夕會不會把它分類成兩大類報復的"},{"start":3592.426,"end":3618.853,"text":"跟願意談的因為全部執行下去看起來美國自己受創也會很重所以要把它暫停下來了那這個暫停下來今天美國的股市暴漲3.5萬億美元是16年來的最高紀錄所以它產生一些效應我先請教你看它全文它提到70多個國家因為這70多個國家提出談判所以我現在授權行政部門去做一些暫停"},{"start":3620.053,"end":3645.321,"text":"這裡面有沒有明確指出這75個國家通通列入暫停你們有沒有去確認台灣是不是這些被暫停的some countries我們有沒有在那裡面有有確認了嗎是好這第一個所以已經確認台灣是暫停90天的國家行列之一那我第二個要請教的是你們有沒有做一些了解所有提出談判的國家都有被暫停嗎"},{"start":3648.146,"end":3658.154,"text":"因為我不是美方我不知道他75個名單每一個國家但是就我們部分我們台灣確認有被暫停那其他國家有沒有被暫停為什麼要了解"},{"start":3659.355,"end":3682.834,"text":"出口貿易不是只單向市場還要看競爭對手哪些國家我們也許台商間接投資在那邊設廠哪些國家可能是我們競逐同一個商品行業的競爭者他加了125%我暫停下來當然會產生競爭優劣的差距至少未來兩季會有影響所以我們目前沒有去蒐集是否所有"},{"start":3683.786,"end":3710.295,"text":"提出談判要求的國家都列入90天暫緩的行列這個不確定啦不確定 但就剛剛講基礎關稅的部分因為我們是10%嘛所以我們現在就是說比較屬於有利的地位啦那我們其他部位有沒有人知道是不是所有提出談判的國家75個國家或更多有沒有同步列入如果沒有的話麻煩蒐集一下我第二個要請教一下"},{"start":3711.375,"end":3736.67,"text":"那我們現在已經在時程上要進行談判了嘛那我看他們有的是經過USTR提出有的經過財政部提出有的經過外交單位提出啦我們台灣提出談判的要求賴清德總統的五項策略我們是跟他們哪個單位提出的我們是透過多元管道那同時展開那目前呢也都有你的多元管道是指通通都記"},{"start":3738.274,"end":3752.864,"text":"總是我們當然不管是官方或是非正式的包括我們的各個單位或者是企業界還有各種方式因為川普的這個總統他的這個決策圈牽涉到未來90天"},{"start":3754.105,"end":3764.552,"text":"因為75個國家談判關稅不是小事情當然川普用的是一個簡單粗暴的方式可能會很快但以往一個國家要談就好幾年何況是90天我們縱使現在危機暫時緩解90天我還是要擔心80天後"},{"start":3769.817,"end":3787.075,"text":"預告要怎麼樣的事情所以我們到底是經過哪一個單位掛號進去要談判那未來也許跟他談的是經由這個單位我們還是要回到正式的管道啦那我們的美處跟USTR也都有聯繫啦我坦白講USTR很慢啦"},{"start":3787.595,"end":3815.367,"text":"對 那是其中一個嘛 那怎麼去促進能夠來加速所以 這個是我們我們是經由哪個管道提出談判要求的你有多元管道多元管道去接觸那也得到確認他們有收到訊息那也呢 就我們官方的管道裡面當然美處就是我們各部會啊在那邊的代表處都有都有人嘛 各組長嘛那也跟美方的這個"},{"start":3816.307,"end":3822.433,"text":"因為機關上還是美國貿易代表還是一個最重要的要對接的窗口我們未來進行溝通談判是經由哪個單位"},{"start":3830.073,"end":3850.865,"text":"因為現在的決策方式看起來財政部部長USTR跟商務部都有影響權所以就如同林教長部長所提的我們是透過多元的管道那USTR當然一定是我們的管道之一USTR因為USTR我們過去不管談哪個項目其實都蠻慢的這個是實話你認為這90天內我們排的"},{"start":3855.208,"end":3862.788,"text":"順序會在優先順序還是還是要排隊他不會是根據掛號啦他可能根據他們美方的需求的優先順序"},{"start":3864.586,"end":3881.32,"text":"確實我想美國他是按照他自己本身的利益以及跟這些國家的貿易逆差的大小來決定順位但是因為我們在幾天之前我們已經掛商號所以我想我們一定會持續的努力爭取希望可以盡快的跟這一個有關外交部或者我們經貿談判辦你像我們注意到在"},{"start":3886.272,"end":3910.257,"text":"4月8號跟今天美國的財政部長貝森特特別有提他提了兩件事情我覺得好險他提第一個事情他說中國升級用對等對抗的方式就好像以為拿了一對二就在跟美國玩博弈他認為這是極度愚蠢因為兩邊的貿易是5比1"},{"start":3914.043,"end":3922.887,"text":"這個對等的報復對中國來講他一定輸定的牌我就想到我們台灣國內有些人本來還講說台灣政府應該一起跟著中國報復啊"},{"start":3924.537,"end":3950.205,"text":"我們是以出口為導向美國現在是我們第一大出口市場在1月份到2月份已經正式超越中港所以如果採取對等報復的時候今天公佈我們台灣就會在那一邊在125%那一邊在小額的800美元以下90%的那一邊你知道那台灣的中小企業已經全部完蛋了90天內訂單都沒有了所以國內有些負荷的中國這種呼籲的"},{"start":3951.923,"end":3970.736,"text":"坦白講我不用政治去看這件事情要嘛就外行要不然根本不把台灣以中小企業出口為主的產業體系不當一回事倒是賴總統這五項策略穩穩的把這個事情控制下來所以我這邊提醒外交部跟談判辦就是說未來90天很重要"},{"start":3971.638,"end":3988.652,"text":"我們現在是鬆一口氣我猜啦我猜今天早上台股應該也是會不錯啦那大概去排隊等單的會很高興但是人民高興是好事政府官員要去想未來90天內我們多快可以達成一定的協議"},{"start":3989.973,"end":4014.305,"text":"這個是我希望未來我們招委這邊可以再排特別在經過45天以後我們的進度就明確了對口是哪個單位談的項目是什麼東西真的是零關稅基準嗎零關稅基準我們國內產業的衝擊可以允許補貼到什麼程度這都是談判的重點不容易所以請談判辦跟外交部準備好我現在兩位請回請經濟部跟財政部"},{"start":4018.137,"end":4041.156,"text":"是 我也很好川普的宣布其實第二件重要的事情是對於暫緩90天這是一件事他裡面特別點出來說指點中國事實上對等報復的加拿大也有25%但加拿大已經宣布執行了所以他不在這一波歐盟也宣布要即將採取報復那川普認為他不叫對等報復所以好像也放了只有中國 中國磕了"},{"start":4042.037,"end":4062.118,"text":"水價外加就是原來的稅由外加125%的稅低於800美金的郵寄商品從免稅調高到90%的這個是懲罰性的一個關稅因為本來只有30現在調高到90%那我請教請教經濟部跟財政部我們現在應該要注意什麼中國這個當然中國經濟一定會受重創"},{"start":4065.677,"end":4080.943,"text":"那重創他們國家你繼續擔心我們擔心是我們台灣跟台商我們經濟部現在跟財政部應該注意什麼事情首先我跟委員報告我們要注意兩點第一個是我們台商在大陸的經營方式"},{"start":4081.927,"end":4106.383,"text":"因為某些台商雖然在川普1.0的時代已經有撤出中國市長到其他國家去佈局但是還是有部分的廠商留在中國我們的台商因為放在中國那邊要面對125%我們當然也要關心我們在海外的台灣的生意人你們關注的焦點是什麼 協助他轉移"},{"start":4106.926,"end":4131.767,"text":"我們會第一個我們還是會歡迎他回台投資因為台灣投資台灣三大方案會持續的進行這個部分我了解我待會把你summarize一下我現在要問的是對於中國小額因為我們後續的談判這一題跟前一題有關係後續的談判他以美國一定會看你有沒有成為第三方偷技術洗產地到貨的地方嗎"},{"start":4132.779,"end":4160.675,"text":"這就叫兩部經濟部跟財政部嘛對於中國那種單一品項你知道他用郵寄中港澳郵寄到美國的貨品佔他出口的90%欸那個課90%齁其實中國影響大以外他一定想辦法倒貨昨天在英國國會就開了一個會題目叫做當孩子可以買到便宜的聖誕節玩具的時候他這題目很有創意對啊他倒貨就變便宜可是父母會失去工作"},{"start":4162.23,"end":4171.702,"text":"所以我不知道經濟部跟財政部對於防止中國到貨來台灣不管是以台灣為市場或者以台灣為傾銷或者金額台灣要洗出去有沒有什麼具體做法"},{"start":4173.596,"end":4201.527,"text":"是 各位委員報告其實中國的對等關稅稅率擴增的越高中國的貨品利用台灣的稀產地的機會就越高你們有什麼具體做法是 這個部分事實上從川普第一任開始我們海關就開始在執行違規轉運的強力的查緝但是因應這個形勢越來越嚴重那我們海關這個部分已經有提出一個事前預防事中審查"},{"start":4202.247,"end":4217.338,"text":"我建議經濟部跟財政部第一個是對於在海外台商要回國投資或者輔導去對我們有利的地方投資比如說我們要降低對美國增加降低壁壘增加就業機會要做輔導措施"},{"start":4218.999,"end":4245.093,"text":"第二個特別對中國商品經由小額郵寄包裹進到台灣的部分不管是以台灣目的或者像你剛才講的是轉口的要有一些具體可執行的方案否則談判辦去談一定會被ㄉㄧㄤ的那我後續就不再問了那我提醒央行請你注意這個時候你們是管兩個綠你不用出來了匯率跟利率請把這兩項控穩這時候利率不能動"},{"start":4246.153,"end":4268.948,"text":"這時候利率一動你看當年市集房貸我這樣講你就懂了所以這個時候雙綠控穩利率匯率請務必讓總裁了解這個時候要控穩我們不政府去manipulate但是請控穩來以上謝謝主席好謝謝王定一委員發言那接下來有陳永康委員上台質詢"},{"start":4293.596,"end":4300.483,"text":"有请经济部请外交部好了外交部先外交部领部长先经济部稍后谢谢"},{"start":4306.266,"end":4330.103,"text":"部長早安委員長在這個國際動態變化的情勢裡面唯一不變的就是持續變化因此對於我們政府對於這個有關關稅的挑戰如何因應這其實就是一個大挑戰因為我們沒有辦法做預應所以我們在這邊提出來那如何預應呢預應是full spectrum是全面向的"},{"start":4330.663,"end":4348.127,"text":"他没有办法对单一问题做出细节因此我在今天拜读了经济部还有外交部还有其他部会的文件以后那有些东西对我们来讲是一种互动学习有些部分我用下面的方式提供一个建言请参考"},{"start":4353.367,"end":4374.639,"text":"這個根據您的這個報告文內啊就是4月6號總統向國人提出的五項應變政策以及我們提出的具體方法啊我這邊這個文字就不足以再走一遍我把它列出來提供出來給大家看一下這張圖啊就是我們解析啊強權競合的作業流程圖"},{"start":4376.226,"end":4387.2,"text":"川普就任以来比较过去他从45任再加上拜登46任到现在47任他所有运用的方法手段产生的巨变都在这里面"},{"start":4389.761,"end":4414.74,"text":"所以如果你只是用经济问题用军事问题用外交问题你是切开来个别谈你可以看出来他前面提出的关税以及后面所出的这个图里面不管他的对等公平惩罚两层四层六层八层这是随他讲的九十天十五天十天随他讲这个都在变所以我们如果没有一个long term strategy"},{"start":4415.287,"end":4433.623,"text":"把外交經濟軍事政治面涵蓋進來像這個圖表列出來的退出國際組織廢除不合理的條約關閉領事館持續貿易戰晶片法案分裂市場脫不脫鉤今天裡面講的中美競合"},{"start":4438.386,"end":4450.566,"text":"這是competition跟cooperation才產生的這個competition那就表示他不會脫鉤了嘛所以在這個情勢判斷裡面他很多在談可以把底線露出來但是明天又變化了"},{"start":4451.508,"end":4477.229,"text":"所以中美貿易對話他是不會斷的那美國跟所有國家的對話也不會斷但是為什麼先出狠招這叫引蛇出洞先看你們有什麼招然後我再把你們做區隔區分所以他巴拿馬的問題叫他退出一帶一路但高層領導直接我跟某某是好朋友雖然今天常態性的行政對話中斷元首可以對話"},{"start":4478.513,"end":4496.008,"text":"对完话以后明天就可以变化退出气候协定退出世界卫生组织退出人权组织退出教科文退出UNESCO随他讲同一个时间法律施压同时跟菲律宾跟日本军事演习"},{"start":4497.554,"end":4525.269,"text":"表态所以这个scope就显示出来了如果我们没有一个完整的战略观而只是针对单一问题做反应你永远在react可是你的手头的筹码跟你的时间是有限的90天内要把所有东西分析出来去对口能够排序我们面临是一个挑战所以同样的我们的行政院排出了这个条款这是正面的"},{"start":4526.325,"end":4552.99,"text":"我们也肯定的但是从负面来看你的风险在哪里我给一个方法论美国开启全球贸易制裁与中共竞合下我外交布局机因应没有预应这一次大家看到了台积电的特质正好把地缘经济地缘政治地缘战略整个结合一起你看这个图里面这个供应链是互为上下层而不是可以剪断切割的"},{"start":4555.731,"end":4575.765,"text":"所以地緣經濟你考慮的人口位置貿易源頭產業鏈路地緣戰略這裡面美方考慮的如果海峽起衝突台積電會不會被摧毀全世界會不會斷斷的晶圓的來源所以軍事戰略威澤嚇阻維護利益另外地緣政治國家利益合縱連橫雙軌雙標所以雙軌雙標就是在"},{"start":4580.083,"end":4608.146,"text":"这个川普总统里面他用的很厉害的就是dual strategy double standard我跟不同的人不同的标准不同的谈但是呢我可以把它交换所以从这个里面我们看出一个结果我们需要有一个国安战略国家安全战略的引领全民群策群力形塑寒藏牵动邻国的利益营造区域平衡巩固贸易源头强化产业的链路多元生产生存的缝隙"},{"start":4609.246,"end":4636.776,"text":"以有利的地缘的政治经济科技环境进而善于外交的布局精进军事能量要运用以小牵大虚实联动正齐相生的合众联盟多轨并进的策略维护国家安全利益所以我们这次看到这个英法德国对于这个这个贸易的关税的问题跟这个所谓的西班牙跟意大利是不同步的"},{"start":4637.847,"end":4656.722,"text":"我們看到了一個什麼同路不同道同道不同德同德不同心同心不同人同人不同調所以不要用口號來喊同路人根本不重要太low end了你去看他的價值觀去看他的法律所以我們今天尊重的是我們講的民主"},{"start":4657.677,"end":4677.264,"text":"人权法治可是在这个国际变动的局势里面这三个它的优秀不一样它不是同步重视的所以基于这个考虑我们需要一个长期的战略跨部会的沟通协调这非常重要那刚刚讲经过多元管道这是一个正面看法可是feedback以后的如何fusing"},{"start":4678.024,"end":4687.406,"text":"要收斂这是另外一个挑战因此我把今天做一个最后的结论就是外交部在提出针对总统五项里面有八个做法"},{"start":4688.294,"end":4710.431,"text":"可是呢你必須要有主觀客觀微觀宏觀樂觀悲觀前瞻反思同時要考慮到這是政府還是政黨的政策這是動態淨碳輿論學術經濟國安是個案還是通案是科技還是醫療今天還講到藥品的問題是全面還是局部長期短期所以你會發現產生多少變化量啊"},{"start":4714.839,"end":4726.851,"text":"512个变化量所以当你分析的参数参考参数越多我们犯下错误决策的几率就越低不是谁绝对对谁绝对对的错而是我们现在要做"},{"start":4728.035,"end":4752.363,"text":"避險為先 持隱保態 要長期規劃 統籌執行所以這裡面cover到了目的 方法 手段你設定的目標 選擇的方法 運用的手段包括對美關係 兩岸關係 國際協商 內外折衝你是要晶圓支撐台灣 你要確保能源你要社會的全任性 你要國防的戰力強所以在這個裡面 它已經超出了單一"},{"start":4753.143,"end":4780.929,"text":"外交經濟或者是它是一個完整的國安考量我特別用這個圖像請這個部長做一個參考部長請您指導好 這個委員的高見真的我受益良多特別是把八項具體的做法一一對應那麼確實我們有一個總和外交那搭配總統他的大戰略今天的這一個彭博社的這一個文章很清楚這個路徑圖"},{"start":4782.265,"end":4792.662,"text":"所以川普我們要對齊他他在講什麼我們要聽的對再來我們事實上要去對接他"},{"start":4794.517,"end":4816.235,"text":"比如他的貿易政策他的投資政策他的所有的政策都有長年的主張跟最近的宣布再來我覺得就是到對應你要有措施所以這個從對齊對接到對應那我們才能夠去這個就算是一個國際的賽局那因為美中的抗衡"},{"start":4817.478,"end":4843.354,"text":"所以使這一次對我們有威脅也有機會因為紅色供應鏈跟美國會是兩套不同的系統而台灣在所謂的非紅的供應鏈裡面我們有不可或缺的角色而這個供應鏈不只是純粹從所謂的投資或者是貿易它也是一個安全的戰略它甚至是一個高科技在包括未來的AI跟晶片上面的一個"},{"start":4844.415,"end":4863.41,"text":"美中的抗衡所以台灣呢我們怎麼樣去對應包括美國包括中國包括其他各國這個就是我們剛剛委員提到的一個戰略我們會根據委員的這個方法論好好再來檢視我們現在做的然後予以做必要的這一個增補或者是調整"},{"start":4866.367,"end":4885.716,"text":"謝謝部長我們也會全力支持我們國家對外的政策那麼在這個情勢下就是說資源有限時間有限我們整合作業是一個非常重要的以上提出建言謝謝部長謝謝陳永康委員上台質詢接下來有羅美玲委員上台質詢"},{"start":4894.792,"end":4897.222,"text":"謝謝主席 有請林佳龍部長還有經貿辦"},{"start":4909.313,"end":4925.778,"text":"部長早安今天凌晨確實是一個非常戲劇性又非常勁爆的一個大轉彎我看到美股大漲那台股一開盤就狂漲媒體用這個滿血復活來形容我們今天的這個台股"},{"start":4926.798,"end":4940.347,"text":"那美國除了對中國呢的進口關稅提高到125%那其他的而且是馬上生效那其他75個國家呢就你有去跟美國聯繫的你有去談的你沒有採取報復行動的其實呢他就"},{"start":4944.169,"end":4965.74,"text":"維持這個10%甚至給你三個月的這個緩衝的這個時間那當然一開始今天我們的定語委員有在提到就是說我們到底有沒有在這75個國家裡面可是我今天有看到林部長你有提到說其實我們都已經有掛號進去了所以也就表示說其實我們就是在這75個國家裡面而且我們就是維持這10%而且我們三個月的這個緩衝期嘛是不是這樣子"},{"start":4970.302,"end":4984.547,"text":"對所以這是非常非常明確的那當然我們也看到就是在一天 昨天一天之內我們看到了美國祭出了 同時祭出了這個棍子跟這個胡蘿蔔那當然我們也看到了它的這個針對性所以說它想要這個除了貿易逆差之外 想它對這個中國的這個針對性是非常非常的強的"},{"start":4993.45,"end":5019.147,"text":"那當然我們也看到川普這兩天的操作也讓未來呢說實在的不確定也是增加了非常的多所以三個月你說很長嗎其實沒有啊到底我們三個月內能不能進到這個談判的這個順序裡面我們到底排的這個順序是在前面還是後面其實這個也是讓我們非常的擔心那當然因為川普的不確定性當然三個月內如果75個國家還沒有談判完畢的話我在想這有沒有機會"},{"start":5023.89,"end":5049.691,"text":"如果我們排了三個月後我們有沒有機會還是一樣可以坐上這個談判桌因為機會是給準備好的人我們做了充分的準備川普總統上任到現在80天那未來還有90天我們可以談判那我跟委員報告事實上從川普當選的那一天我們總統就指示行政院我們已經針對台美經貿的工作尤其是談判做了很多分工"},{"start":5050.211,"end":5078.849,"text":"所以最近為什麼那麼快速的可以盤點完再做一些調整因為他現在政策很具體那這個時候我們跟他從管道已經建立到實質內容所以到底是誰會先談或談得好不好取決於你的準備也就是你要跟他談判的內容你看越南的例子越南罪長講所謂的零關稅的這個作為他跟美國談判可是你看美方的官員他馬上就講說不是用講的"},{"start":5079.75,"end":5106.669,"text":"因為這裡面涉及到的很多的不管是你關稅怎麼樣去降哪些包括一些貿易的障礙他就指出很多的這些貿易障礙也要排除所以我們要談的包括說你要去讓雙方面的貿易能夠比較公平的話一方面是我們要增加它的進口"},{"start":5107.811,"end":5132.979,"text":"那同時呢我們怎麼樣去投資它那就不用透過我們的出口而是直接包括投資美國或採購這個方式很簡單就是這個怎麼樣去出口到美國的能夠相對它進口的我們能夠把這個貿易上任的時候我們就已經在做準備了嘛對不對所以我們在每一樣做的包含經售的這個經購的這個部分也是嘛"},{"start":5133.599,"end":5153.959,"text":"對 我跟委員簡單講一下比如我們有一個聯力方程式的話那每一個變數啊我們怎麼樣加起來之後可以縮短貿易事實上台美的貿易是去年2024史上最高是因為我們透過像AI Server或顯卡或這些電子資通訊半導體的產品那類似是歷史新高那隨著我們投資美國它會下降"},{"start":5154.86,"end":5170.733,"text":"同樣我們降低關稅或是比較對等的時候他進口台灣會增加所以這個公式其實是很容易去加加減減之後就能夠告訴川普政府說我們要做什麼事會有什麼結果所以川普政府的官員都說你要告訴我你要做什麼數字是什麼"},{"start":5172.614,"end":5183.87,"text":"他不是要一個口號那個如果說輕弱就會寡性啊到時候也會造成可能更大的一個不利的反應所以我們的這個工作同仁真的是沒面沒力尤其是4月2號那一天之後啊到5號到9號到今天"},{"start":5188.556,"end":5200.247,"text":"那我也可以跟委員報告就是說我們基本上他們提出的問題啊我們大概都有事先做準備那已經做了重新的盤點跟調整那現在就整個上談判桌就實質的項目跟內容一項一項來談我們是非常的以務實的態度而且是相當有準備"},{"start":5207.794,"end":5225.224,"text":"那至於說他這個關稅既是目的也是手段他當然希望能夠平衡關稅可是他也希望用這個做槓桿那他要的是什麼那我們怎麼樣不會陷入被動而是我們藉由他要的去達到我們要的這也就是為什麼是這個投資這個美國我們要組成這個台灣投資美國隊"},{"start":5229.929,"end":5244.198,"text":"那同時我們也期待美國投資台灣隊所以我剛剛在委員問題裡面有提到說我們不只是台美我們到第三國瓜地馬拉也好菲律賓也好都可以一起去投資強化台美經貿的合作跟我們的韌性"},{"start":5245.31,"end":5269.064,"text":"所以簡單的講就是說我們就是看美國他需要什麼那我們針對他的問題然後我們跟他去做這方面就是主軸我們就是先拉出來他要的是什麼我們能夠提供後續能夠提供什麼嗎那再來還有一點我想我們始終還是要坐上這個談判桌剛剛部長你有提到的所謂的零關稅像越南他一開始就提出說OK他們就要從零關稅開始談我們的總統也提到說我們要從零關稅開始談"},{"start":5275.708,"end":5299.965,"text":"那當然這個部分我們還是必須要回到之前我們跟拜登政府所簽訂的台美21世紀貿易倡議這個部分那這部分在去年底的時候已經生效了那現在好了第一階段對第一階段去年生效是沒錯那當初我們跟台美希望說利用這個堆積木的方式來堆疊那希望成為未來FTA的一個基礎吧我們本來想說用這樣子的方式那現在會不會就是因為這一波高額關稅的這個談判我們直接把這個過程給拿掉了"},{"start":5305.188,"end":5319.574,"text":"那直接進入談用這個FTA的模式來談會嗎這個部分可能待會請這個委員問一個很重要的問題因為這個台美21期貿易倡議是拜登政府提出以後會用這個名稱我們不確定但第一階段12項裡面的5項已經達成也會執行那這個是屬於這是非關稅的一些我們怎麼去做貿易的一個台美的一個合作"},{"start":5334.264,"end":5360.515,"text":"那這些項目其實在我們推動的時候就幫助我們其實今天我們為什麼準備那麼快跟當時的這個台美21世紀貿易倡議的談判我們台灣已經做很多條式所以就不會從零開始所以我想前面的這個堆積木是有一定效果可是川普比較像是他比較是想要建立一個模他是目標先講出來你要答應一起來做"},{"start":5361.676,"end":5372.006,"text":"然後再慢慢去蓋所以我覺得每一個人的領導風格不一樣所以我們要了解這個川普總統有他作為一個我想他是一個談判高手我們怎麼樣跟他對上我常常講說對齊對接到對應那最好是我們能夠對等的雙贏"},{"start":5379.233,"end":5393.86,"text":"台灣不要只是為了被迫回應我們一直在回應中去掌握我們這個主動然後我們要達到的我們的國家目標然後甚至路徑圖我們也告訴他們了所以那個總統所提到的五項或是你看對應這個川普政府裡面的這些經濟的官員"},{"start":5398.382,"end":5415.536,"text":"他都列得很清楚怎麼樣會對等貿易有貢獻的項目是什麼那我們有沒有去一一去救那些項目我們看怎麼去努力那這是要台美一起努力不是只有台灣不是我們這樣而已事實上我們台美關稅的這個順差並不是很大"},{"start":5416.417,"end":5437.612,"text":"他是用這一個所謂貿易逆差作為一個類似來談判的籌碼的時候那我們就是要先上談判桌你沒有上談判桌的話你再多的準備都沒有用那我們現在有一個第一步我們建立了一個溝通管道那也列入他談判的對象那我們就把我們的內容談判所有的give and take所有的這一些互相的策略的互動我們要把它一一的提出來那跟他能夠得到互惠雙贏的結果"},{"start":5445.718,"end":5450.523,"text":"林副長說得很好 我想經貿辦是不是要補充 你需要補充的部分嗎"},{"start":5451.585,"end":5455.508,"text":"我簡單補充一下就是針對這個台美21世紀貿易倡議他理論上因為美國川普總統有說有說明對於他現在的所有FTA或雙邊協定他們會去檢視未來要持續推動的可能性以及如何去強化那目前他沒有還沒有提到我們台美這個倡議他要如何處理但是從我們經貿辦的角度我們會努力去推動希望可以朝向未來如果要進具體協商的話那我想"},{"start":5479.102,"end":5505.256,"text":"台美21世紀倡議我們現在委員這邊所列出來的這些貿易便捷化服務業國內規章反貪腐良好法制作業確實都是美國這一次在認定對等關稅它去所謂非關稅貿易障礙它去評估的來源所以我們有台美這絕對都是基礎對 所以它創造了很好的基礎所以我們會用這個去跟美國進一步的爭取OK 好 以上謝謝"},{"start":5506.963,"end":5527.876,"text":"好謝謝羅敏林委員的發言下面我們請黃仁委員來質詢請問主席跟委員是你要先他時間到了你要先離開這是好謝謝"},{"start":5534.522,"end":5562.125,"text":"有請經濟部江次長江次長請今天不談你的專案報告我是談現在非常重要重要在台東東部現在發生的事情這幾天清明節之後有好幾天都已經在各部落裡面都開始他們的頭目部落會議在抗爭抗議是什麼你知道嗎"},{"start":5564.352,"end":5574.248,"text":"今天我們講的是東風東風能源有限公司在台東長濱跟成功泰瑪里大武這一帶"},{"start":5576.395,"end":5601.314,"text":"來做一個說明說明什麼 要建蓋我們的風電在我們的太平洋的東海岸裡面而且現在已經弄得沸沸揚揚季節風電 還我家園台東的長濱成功太五大五是天賜的美麗的福地因為偏遠所以才能夠一直為別開發"},{"start":5602.608,"end":5632.166,"text":"也因為邊陲才能保有國際級的自然景象自然景觀海岸的美應該是全台灣的驕傲應該是所有人讚嘆疼惜怎麼會有偏鄉人口少就被直接規劃成陸域風力發電的區域請問次長長濱成功泰馬里要設置陸域風力發電機這件事情是不是已經定案了"},{"start":5633.691,"end":5650.327,"text":"報告委員我們要任何設置這種陸域發電的話必須要跟當地的政府還有各相關的利害幹線都在做溝通所以現在應該還是在一個溝通的階段而且他們是強行的而且不定時的"},{"start":5650.948,"end":5680.088,"text":"然後呢第二個他並沒有邀請我們台東縣政府包含地方官員包含地方的民意代表共同來商議是不是要設立一個風電在我們的東海岸這是一個非常嚴重的事情所以我這邊特別要講昨天他們也偷偷的到台東縣大五鄉在那邊做一個說明會今天又要辦一個說明會麻煩你查一下好不好是"},{"start":5680.973,"end":5695.225,"text":"那今天他們要舉辦第二次的說明會但是台東的縣政府及所有的民意代表都不知道請問東城是否向經濟部合備召開說明會的事情"},{"start":5696.277,"end":5719.03,"text":"有沒有報告委員這個部分我不清楚不過我可以回去馬上了解你趕快清查經濟部是否同意為向地方縣市政府申請的狀況之下就召開說明會這種方式這種強行的硬幹的手段令人不齒所以本席要求經濟部要徹查徹查到底"},{"start":5720.951,"end":5743.571,"text":"到底他們現在是個人行為還是已經有在某種默契跟你們的經濟部裡面有合備然後讓他們為所欲為在台東開說明會而且並沒有讓部落的人接受要在台東開立風電這是非常嚴重 過去裡面我們可以追溯"},{"start":5744.502,"end":5761.899,"text":"我們過去在2008年桃園新屋鄉首先發難2011年北海岸山之鄉也爆發怒火在2012年英華威公司在苗栗這個"},{"start":5765.014,"end":5792.827,"text":"苗栗也是進行了強行的動工所以造成了一個反風電的一個風暴所以這個部分你一定要記得記得要查查到底他們是為什麼為什麼還在那個地方而且媒體都有報導說要將在台東東海要設立風電那我想請教如果是這樣的話如果是這樣的話"},{"start":5797.146,"end":5826.204,"text":"東海岸成功泰瑪麗大舞就是天賦造舞的藝術創作那例如政府不傾聽民意以其閒來勒馬強行硬幹的話本席將號召台東上萬的鄉親上北北上總統府行政院包含經濟部進行史上最大的抗爭你不要不信今天"},{"start":5826.804,"end":5854.891,"text":"你要經過部落議會如果有涉及到台東原住民的傳統領域包含海域法的話必須要經過部落會議的召開而且要進行以上三場的公聽會次長你來回應一下是謝謝委員的關心我們回去會就委員的提案我們會回去進行這個"},{"start":5857.196,"end":5882.631,"text":"討論然後也會向長官報告委員的關切我們強力的季節的封店黃武嘉園以上我要提出有五大點在究竟這套封店制度背後的結構性問題為何本席提出五大五大的問題請政府重視的民意第一缺乏公眾"},{"start":5884.392,"end":5887.494,"text":"公眾參與機制應從選址階段就廣增意見第二用補償換開發人權被漠視應將居民權益納入審查程序"},{"start":5899.702,"end":5919.836,"text":"第三,切乏區域規劃,尊重既有使用者,落實沿海空間的規劃。第四,法制基礎不完備,應制定正式法規命令。第五,跨部會整合不足,權責失衡,須有更高的統籌單位。"},{"start":5922.377,"end":5946.471,"text":"以上在這個部分本席強調政府應制定計劃逐步邁向非核家營而不是在時勢急急忙忙用盡一切的手段讓我們的鹽田 漁溫 濕地 海岸遭到難以恢復的破壞所以更犧牲了鄉村 漁民以及當地民眾的權益所以"},{"start":5947.071,"end":5975.301,"text":"第一個業者應該要先從地方政府申請若地方同意申請後會再送中央審查核備那業者動工前必須先辦理說明會二選址限制若是政府公告之生態敏感區域那絕對禁止設置那我的建議是如果業者向地方政府申請地方政府應該要求業者"},{"start":5976.941,"end":5994.27,"text":"舉辦三場的公聽會所以這是非常非常嚴重而且破壞了整個東海岸的大自然今天我們核能電廠不辦光電就造害了公害台南嘉義就是一個例子"},{"start":5994.89,"end":6010.483,"text":"那現在要想到我們台東東海岸裡面想要動這個頭腦我們絕對拒絕而且我們絕對會責成所有東海岸的鄉親來上北上來抗議"},{"start":6012.945,"end":6030.997,"text":"市長你要特別把我的話重視告訴給部長絕對不能夠強行硬幹這個事情好不好報告委員因為這個台東縣政府是地方電業的主管機關所以我們應該要地方政府先行的來同意同意之後呢你們要傻傻"},{"start":6031.397,"end":6046.933,"text":"到底東風東風今天憑什麼會在那個地方說明會憑什麼是你們已經有你們有允許還是有核備還是跟縣政府有核備你們查查一下好不好是那把這個報告提出給我好以上謝謝黃榮委員我們下面請馬文君委員發言"},{"start":6072.555,"end":6078.325,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請外交部現在是次長請陳次長還有經濟部"},{"start":6090.504,"end":6115.672,"text":"你好謝謝次長今天我們主要大概是針對我們關稅的這個部分來做一個專報那美國總統川普他在宣布對等關稅的這個政策的時候其實搞得全世界人仰馬翻雖然現在暫時有90天的緩衝期不過川普大概也等著世界各國"},{"start":6116.452,"end":6119.796,"text":"去跟他疏成去跟他談判所以談判大概也沒有辦法談什麼大概他的主導性還是非常強就這一點我們的談判小組已經出發了嗎"},{"start":6131.542,"end":6152.749,"text":"我們在跟美國的所有的溝通感到暢通無阻具體的這個施程我們還是基於雙方的誠信原則我們想是說還是有一定程度上也不便揭露的地方我們已經就像我們部長之前回覆委員的話一樣就是說我們的已經掛上號了"},{"start":6153.669,"end":6162.892,"text":"好 那麼我們隨時Ready可以去跟他進行這個相關的談判在等美方的時間 通知時間我們會主動 我們會很主動的來進行相關的這個準備那麼也隨時準備可以進行他有對象嘛 我們"},{"start":6171.095,"end":6193.686,"text":"對象就好像我們OTM所說的一樣包括美國財政部美國的商業部美國的USTR這都是我們主要的對口單位我們現在看到談判小組雖然其實我們涵蓋了國安體系、外交體系、經貿談判辦公室還有其他的業界、學界我們好像都有納入"},{"start":6195.567,"end":6204.392,"text":"當然他談判的這個本質上面我們有政府體系那代表的人物當然吳釗燮秘書長他已經出發了嘛這我不便透露"},{"start":6210.806,"end":6234.258,"text":"這個好像大家都知道啊現在是因為你該做的就算這個有什麼好不便透露的你如果可以做吳釗燮身為過去是外交部長他現在是國安會的秘書長你不用特別說他跟誰見面可是你本來就要因應那出去就出去了這有什麼好不便透露的我現在看到的是因為去年8月"},{"start":6235.439,"end":6239.201,"text":"吳釗燮秘書長他是跟林佳龍部長一起出去訪美他也是用比較特殊的管道那現在他已經出發可是這一次我們林佳龍部長是沒有出去的那對我們因為包括我們在美方給我們的"},{"start":6255.389,"end":6258.051,"text":"訊息我相信他報給就是我們的駐美的代表處其實當時是給什麼樣的資訊可以讓賴總統他說讓大家放心然後我們的卓院長讓大家安心入睡甚至民進黨的總召他都可以大剌剌的說我們大概只會10%的關稅"},{"start":6278.712,"end":6304.355,"text":"完全讓大家隔天一覺醒來都靜呆了所以其實我們說有史以來關係最好或者我們有掌握什麼樣的狀況顯然不是那你現在如果說像這樣的狀況之下我們要去談判已經有建議像張忠謀可以納入我們的談判的一個小組裡面有沒有可能有沒有考量"},{"start":6305.317,"end":6321.662,"text":"委員的意見我們都是會這個向內傳達那麼當然最後變成談判的這個決定那麼外交部是負責收集相關的資訊提出相關的好的建議那麼剛才委員指導的這個相關的東西我們都有"},{"start":6322.302,"end":6328.364,"text":"第一個我們每處都有充分掌握相關的資訊我們的資訊是完全錯誤的所以不要再拿出來談這個部分因為你出來的資訊是跟大家天然地別差的太多所以我們現在講的是為了我們台灣整體的利益尤其這個關稅對我們打擊非常的大台灣的經濟高度依賴外貿"},{"start":6346.411,"end":6351.652,"text":"我們在2023年其實我們貿易額是GDP的99%我相信這個在座的各位都非常的清楚所以這個談判小組其實是非常重要的因為我們不希望說你到時候我們的談判小組去只是去聽然後去全盤的接收你一點談判的能力都沒有的情況之下我們現在很多國人會擔心因為以川普的個性他甚至像越南"},{"start":6374.477,"end":6387.896,"text":"他直接去了他直接最早他表達要零關稅他根本覺得遠遠不足而且非常不屑所以對於我們來說我們今天談判的代表也非常的重要因為他攸關我們未來不管整體的經濟貿易"},{"start":6391.761,"end":6393.703,"text":"或者我們未來的產業發展它都有很大的影響那既然我們在APEC的時候其實都可以請張忠謀去參加那如果這個談判對於我們來說因為第一對業界最了解的對產業界最了解的對整個我們半導體或者其他國家"},{"start":6411.255,"end":6428.459,"text":"整個全球的脈動很了解的非他莫屬所以其實他是一個很好的人才當然也有人建議蔡英文前總統那可是他的身份不曉得適不適合那不知道可是我們還是希望台灣可以派出最強而有力的一個談判的代表來爭取我們這一個困境的解決好不好"},{"start":6433.48,"end":6453.665,"text":"是,剛才委員的這個建議我們一定傳達給決策者。第二個是說,也請委員放心,就是說在關於談判上面來說的話,其實我想針對這個撤補的關稅,大概就是說我們要做好所有的功課,然後要做好所有的萬全的準備,各種的可能性。"},{"start":6454.425,"end":6480.218,"text":"就外交部的立場來說,我們所有的訊息都有透過各種的管道來掌握那不可否認的,因為川普總統他的談判的風格那麼很多的時候我們掌握,但是說他還是像昨天的突然宣布90天暫緩實施的時候其實很多時候可能連他的格言都不一定能夠完全掌握"},{"start":6480.758,"end":6483.722,"text":"那麼所以是說這個談判上面一定會有一定的彈性但是做好功課雖然川普總統他的決策因為他事先都已經預告了他昨天這個90天其實可能是比較很多人是比較意外的可是他在關稅要課徵重稅這個不是後來才講"},{"start":6500.262,"end":6519.297,"text":"可是我們掌握的訊息顯然是不對的所以我想沒有什麼任何理由在這裡提說我們有什麼準備而且有做功課如果有做功課而且甚至知道說他可能會對我們課這麼重的稅因為我們台積電都已經送去了他還對我們至少中國2%"},{"start":6521.459,"end":6523.16,"text":"我們遠遠比日本、韓國我們其他有競爭力的國家我們都比他高得多耶所以我們未來談判你還要再送出什麼我們已經送了台積電你又要買武器然後又要零關稅然後對於他的所有的"},{"start":6537.532,"end":6540.453,"text":"採購還要大力的加碼我們還能給什麼所以如果回來還是告訴我們就是這些那我覺得那還不如不要談判所以在這裡我們還是很慎重的去提醒因為今天這幾天我相信所有的部會包括經濟部現在也在然後還有其他的部會其實他牽動非常廣泛所以在這裡我們還是要提醒尤其算"},{"start":6564.139,"end":6573.704,"text":"外交部長不在不過我們還是希望這個部分外交部還是要掌握最大的一個能量因為其實你們應該跟美方的脈動不然你告訴國人一直以來告訴國人說我們是台美有史以來關係最好的我們都看不出好在哪裡我們吃了美豬然後我們現在他甚至可能還要求我們的標示不可以有明顯的標示那當時對我們全國人民所講的話那個"},{"start":6593.974,"end":6604.101,"text":"你現在智利進來的櫻桃或者其他的日本的蘋果他都很清楚的標示是哪裡來的產地啊就像我們國內要求我們的農民要履歷產地是一樣的啊那為什麼美國如果他要求我們這樣我們會妥協嗎我覺得我們都會全力跟美國溝通經濟部講一下這個部分會不會妥協"},{"start":6617.519,"end":6623.405,"text":"因為這個是涉及的談判的策略所以我們一定會站在什麼叫談判的策略如果你今天在這裡沒有辦法對我們國家或者我們所有人民或者我們食品的安全你過去對人民的承諾你現在去談判你就要強力的要求因為這是為人民把關你今天其他的產品"},{"start":6638.641,"end":6648.285,"text":"人家都沒有問題的他都可以標示啊你來自智利啊澳洲啊紐西蘭的起義國啊什麼大家都標示的非常清楚如果你這個沒有讓人家有疑慮你幹嘛擔心人家標示那如果應該要標示對哪一個國家都一樣所以這個部分我們在這裡提出特別的要求"},{"start":6657.228,"end":6658.971,"text":"我們應該要把關的應該要堅持的我們希望談判小組一定要堅持到底可不可以做到我們一定會去盡我們的盡全力去積極的爭取產業的利益那另外我們在這已經提醒了另外"},{"start":6674.813,"end":6694.642,"text":"賴總統針對這個美國關稅政策他有提出五大因應的策略那剛剛我們提到很多可是其中有一個他就是拖中入北這是好像早上有特別提出來的一個方向所以拖中入北大概就是當然就是希望重心不要放在中國大陸的這些投資那希望可以入北你們的看法怎麼樣是拖中入北的"},{"start":6702.006,"end":6723.954,"text":"他的這個過程其實是很正面的也就是說台灣可以用自己的經濟實力來透過這個這個立足台灣同時呢要佈局全世界那我們經濟部的話會協助廠商來做全球的佈局例如呢像這些我想請教一下因為剛剛你在業務報告的時候有大概念了一下可是當時在2019年"},{"start":6728.155,"end":6742.147,"text":"中美貿易大戰的時候那時候政府也希望因為免於受到很大的衝擊所以台商自己本身也很清楚所以都從中國把它往外移那時候其實政府推的是新南向那現在新南向呢不適合了"},{"start":6745.29,"end":6749.173,"text":"你現在又要脫中入北那你過去的新南向呢新南向有什麼問題嗎好不容易供應鏈才漸漸的落實完成那個不像我們一般要搬家他那個廠房投資各方面還有人力的培訓他在一個地方如果可以安定下來過了六年現在好不容易慢慢達成這樣你現在"},{"start":6768.567,"end":6777.955,"text":"又有一個新的說要入北而且你入北的國家通常都是不管在人工的成本各方面的投資成本上面都是比較高的以台灣的實力或者經濟部更沒有條件去說你們政府可以給這些廠商做什麼因為我覺得你在政策上面你沒有辦法延續你必須告訴大家新南向為什麼不行了"},{"start":6792.932,"end":6810.043,"text":"報告委員其實出了我們台商除了去新南向國家之外有部分有回台灣甚至也有我們的電子產業聚落現在也有到墨西哥那經濟部呢在去年在歐洲也設立了這個投資服務中心"},{"start":6810.583,"end":6813.645,"text":"因為我們要的不是投資服務中心我們要的是你政府的政策要有一貫性你過去在新南向這一個部分我現在要知道的是新南向有沒有發生什麼樣的問題因為大家已經都投資在那裡了剛剛說的墨西哥當然墨西哥以現在美國的關稅部的那種"},{"start":6830.038,"end":6834.859,"text":"的政策來說他可能算是比較好一點的可是他隨時在變動而且川普他現在掌理美國他隨時都在改變我剛剛提到的如果我們去投資像剛剛講到的托中入北這些北方的民主國家我們號稱的民主國家他的投資成本是很高的這對於我們整個產業是不是有利我希望可以有一個具體的數據資料再提供給本席還有我們委員好不好是"},{"start":6861.706,"end":6866.77,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝馬文君委員上台質詢接下來有沈不揚委員上台質詢謝謝主席齁這個有請這個經濟部這個次長還有這個副署長謝謝"},{"start":6890.035,"end":6890.322,"text":"委員好"},{"start":6891.071,"end":6920.471,"text":"你好那這個呢這個關稅的問題其實呢這幾天我覺得炒作是真的非常的多啦那我個人是感受到非常的痛心為什麼呢就是因為這幾天關稅說真的它本來就是一個長期的談判但是我們可以看到在我們這一邊即使是在立法院不斷的有人用這樣的一個方式去炒作這樣的一個政治議題甚至呢可以看到有人說什麼這個在野省下當時多少的預算就是為了當救命的基金"},{"start":6921.232,"end":6936.014,"text":"叫台積電聯電要來這邊報告啦等等之類的我覺得這種政治操作其實說真的讓我們這些正常的討論沒有辦法持續下去這一點是讓我覺得非常的難過那更不要講說在外面很多政治人物就一直在講說我們要跟中國市場融合"},{"start":6937.856,"end":6956.053,"text":"這個國民黨的總召都還在講說這一個是不是要中國的遊客這個趙少康其實也有講一樣的話那我現在比較擔心的事情就是說呢我們現在是要出去談判的人我們也是雖然現在也有這個90天那我們要出去談的時候對於我們這個國內的聲音其實不是很一致"},{"start":6956.973,"end":6983.943,"text":"雖然現在執政黨像剛剛這個前面都有提到不管是這個全美的21倡議啦還有剛剛定宇我們有提到的就是說目前我們總統的這個談話啦投書啦這些事情我們本來是穩定的但現在有一群人等於是在扯後腿啦這一群人呢等於一直在講說我們跟中國站在一起到底有什麼問題啊這一件事情呢會形成我們很大的一個loss因為不管怎麼講今天有兩件事情第一個是順差的問題必須要被解決"},{"start":6984.723,"end":7012.325,"text":"所以呢我看到總統的投書有特別提到到底要做什麼樣的採購但第二個問題最重要的就還是經濟安全那經濟安全這件事情呢目前來講看起來就是選錯的人關稅一二五那如果說我們今天決定假設有國內有一直很大的一個聲音告訴我們說要跟中國站在一起這會是我們非常大的危機因為這就等於你沒有去加入這一個非紅的供應鏈等於你不重視經濟的安全"},{"start":7012.985,"end":7037.838,"text":"所以我從這一個我去年就已經問過部長經濟部部長那我在總質詢也有再問過一次那一次問的主要是跟淘寶有關還有跟算能科技有關的這個習產地的問題那這邊呢我想問的就是這一個不過在這個之前我還要再講一下就是我覺得這是一個核心問題我覺得一定要去注意就是這個去年這一個呢也是陳韻甄委員跟陳學生委員他們呢提了這個離島建設條例裡面的第六項"},{"start":7041.417,"end":7059.767,"text":"他有提到說這一個呢中國的這一個呢人民法人團體機構資金物品商務勞務或服務進出離島自由貿易示範區有沒有然後呢他的許可條件與程序呢等於呢由會商各離島縣政府自己來擬定這就是一個息產地的一個規定"},{"start":7060.908,"end":7085.628,"text":"等於是說我們現在要防止稀產地我等一下要持續的重點就是要怎麼去防止但現在是有人不斷在開後門用這樣的一個方式我們先不要講人員的管理人員的管理光是我的附中草案就已經被擋了44次然後還有我們的關鍵技術我在我的兩岸條例的修正裡面我們關鍵技術還有關鍵的基礎人員要怎麼去做管制這個都已經被擋這個就算了離島建設條例是直接開後門那這個是一個危機"},{"start":7088.61,"end":7118.09,"text":"所以現在除了我們要擋下這個危機之外因為畢竟這個我記得陳玉正委員跟陳學生委員並沒有在這個被公民團體罷免的名單裡但無論如何這個法案是有可能會去被推行的有可能是國民黨想要通過的而這個就會造成危機你在談判的時候結果裡面的人跟你講說我們現在台灣準備要討論這個離島建設條例我們準備要讓離島中國的公司進來不用受到審查中國的人進來不用受到審查那這樣的話要怎麼去做對外的談判"},{"start":7119.371,"end":7140.826,"text":"所以這個剛剛我看前面馬文君委員其實也有提到說什麼這個我們現在到底這個南向到哪裡去或什麼之類的我覺得有時候我們在討論這件事情的時候真的必須要具備一般的知識我們台灣現在可以看到這個紅線的部分是我們對中國的投資是不斷地在下降我們對其他國家的投資是不斷地在上升從二零"},{"start":7142.667,"end":7165.013,"text":"18、19年開始我們對於東協也開始往上升我們對於美加末開始往上升對於中國跟香港開始下降這跟現在有沒有關稅根本就沒有關係這是這89年以來我們政府最重要的一個大政策而這個政策一直都在推行當中所以台積電今天去赴美投資也就是只不過是這樣的一環但這三天我看到很大量的政治操作我看到經濟部是有停住了"},{"start":7165.433,"end":7192.366,"text":"但這個政策操作就是在講說台積電都已經去美國了為什麼沒有換到什麼東西等等之類的沒有這是這八九年以來我們政府一貫的政策就是我們必須要去風險化我們不能夠跟中國綁在一起跟中國綁在一起就是會出問題那現在的這些漏洞呢除了我們要擋下這個藍白現在可能想要去主推這些有的沒的法案之外我認為有一個關鍵就是我們現行的規定的息產地有沒有辦法擋下來"},{"start":7193.707,"end":7217.214,"text":"所以我看一下像這個是原產地證明書及加工證明書的管理辦法這個我看署長這個副署長或者次長都可以看一下在這個第二款因為他說貨品加工或製造這邊我們先不講技術先講最終貨品它的附加價值超過35%或特定貨品已符合貿易署公告的重要製程前面這個附加價值率是有公式的"},{"start":7217.694,"end":7232.423,"text":"所以既然有公式的話,你就一翻兩瞪眼,企業也好遵循,你今天去跟美國談判的時候也可以講說,我們根據這個來認定什麼叫做MIT,所以其產地的問題怎麼去擋下,但後面有這個叫做特定貨品以符合貿易署公告,那這個就變成有一個空間,變成說他可以去認定。"},{"start":7236.365,"end":7260.917,"text":"當然這個有空間有彈性本來在行政機關不是壞事所以我現在想要問的事情就是說如果我們今天這九十天之內因為看起來美國非常重視稀產地那現在有這個也不算是後門就算是有個行政的彈性在這邊但這個彈性別人可能就會質疑說你這一個重要製程你的認定標準是什麼我們這個標準如果講得夠清楚就能夠去擋下說"},{"start":7261.897,"end":7281.277,"text":"那這個息產地的疑慮很明顯台灣是沒有的所以不知道看是次長還是副處長針對這一點就是這一個我們現在有沒有什麼好的標準慢慢在進行當中如果說這個是需要機密會議再討論或者說對外談判先不要講出來的話我們可以另外再安排沒有關係但是就可以跟國人公開的回答就可以"},{"start":7282.178,"end":7299.057,"text":"是謝謝委員的指教委員非常關心未來有沒有洗產地的問題實際上呢我們從今年的二月份就已經開始在實施相關的規定我們有做對自中國進口的這個產品做監測首先看它的這個金額進口的金額"},{"start":7300.238,"end":7319.85,"text":"還有進口的量是不是有異常同時我們也是跟相同的產品去跟蘇美的這個部分去做勾結任何有問題的話我們就會去了解這個實際的狀況那如果未來廠商有違反洗產地的這些相關的"},{"start":7320.63,"end":7345.708,"text":"規定的話根據貿易法我們可以給處罰最高可以罰到300萬單筆甚至呢我們可以停止它這個進出口的資格所以這個機制呢其實現在已經是在進行了那我這樣聽起來的話金流算是一個重要的認定標準金流的異常那除了金流的異常之外我在想的事情就是因為貨品這邊呢可能會比較容易那我之前在總質詢的時候我就有在問這個貿易法第13條"},{"start":7347.569,"end":7371.983,"text":"那裡面有這個我講前兩個就好戰略性高科技貨品出口跟這個軍用兩用貨品技術出口管制清單那因為我記得好像是昨天還前天啊剛好在國科會他們有一個相關的討論然後有一個美國商務部的這個官員嘛是他已經做了三十幾三十年了他已經退休了他有來台灣做一個內部的這個演講但是在國科會那裡那他就有講到一件事情就是說他認為貨品相關的就像剛剛這個次長講的可以有一些標準出來"},{"start":7375.805,"end":7403.386,"text":"那有標準出來的話你根據什麼標準這樣你可以去對外說你看我們這邊並沒有稀產地的問題但他說有一個部分他一直覺得很困擾就是技術就是說像比如說晶片因為他說技術現在進展得太快了所以他說以前商務部美國商務部就是說他們一直在思考一件事情就是他們內部有專業團隊而這個專業團隊不是指經貿專業團隊指的是那個技術就是他對半導體特別了解所以他可以看得出來有沒有問題所以像之前輝達"},{"start":7404.247,"end":7426.665,"text":"其實像美國現在技術它已經有一個很高度的管制嘛那回答為了要不符合那一個所謂的高標準它還要降低它的那一個晶片然後再出口到這個中國去嘛所以台灣現在在這個部分就是說我們對於這樣的一個團隊其實沒有說要求一定要在經濟部裡面啦但是不管是在國安的團隊裡面還是在國科會裡面這個方向現在是否有"},{"start":7427.347,"end":7455.479,"text":"是有關於技術的部分我們已經公布了兩波的國家核心關鍵技術現在總計有32項那這個部分呢包括了相關的行政部門我們都有跨部會的一個機制在討論那貿易署的經濟部的部分因為最主要是貨品的出口管制所以在科技的部分我們跟國科會還有其他的單位都有固定的在做討論如何防範台灣的高科技外流"},{"start":7456.359,"end":7480.439,"text":"那這邊我覺得還有兩個細項就是說我們在跟國科會有一定的討論那國科會這邊在內部我看到他們裡面內部這些政府相關的這些他的智庫他有提出一些建議這些建議裡面包含我剛剛講的除了這個技術它的更新要更快之外因為我覺得速度真的很重要就像我去年在質詢的時候那時候就發現華為其實還沒有到我們的清單上所以我就說這個速度太慢了"},{"start":7480.899,"end":7510.251,"text":"那技術的速度一定要比這個還要再更快這是第一點第二點就是人流啦就是說我們剛剛有提到金流的異常現在有提到技術要怎麼外流但人會帶著技術走嘛所以人要怎麼做就是說今天在什麼樣背景的人要怎麼去做背景的審查之外什麼樣的行為我看到美國現在的做法就是什麼樣的行為你就已經預設你就有可能是在export就是預設你可能會把技術帶出去然後做相關的管制那這個部分我是有先"},{"start":7512.132,"end":7531.661,"text":"針對這幾個條文還有國安法相關的條文要做出一些修正但這個可能也要等到國科會提出一些院版那我在總質詢的時候其實有提到說這個院版要趕快出來那現在畢竟你看說我們現在是90天嘛這90天之內如果我們能夠更把這些跟經濟安全有關的法案院版出來迅速討論通過的話我覺得這個對我們談判的空間一定會有幫助啦是的好那這個"},{"start":7536.923,"end":7543.127,"text":"這個我可能就已經沒時間問了但是我最後一個問題問一下這個民企司長不好意思是 會員因為最近我們有看到美國在做一些相關的民調就是圓屋這件事情還有對於這個北約的態度那民主黨跟共和黨還是會有一些分歧因為以前我們在外交上面就一直提到說要怎麼去做這些溝通交流"},{"start":7566.363,"end":7585.636,"text":"我覺得我們外交部對於智庫的部分真的是越做越好組織的部分也是那公眾的部分呢僑委會雖然有幫忙但我覺得主力應該在外交部那現在等於說我覺得現在世界各國民眾對於一些特定議題的想法會跟著政黨走在台灣也是這個樣子那目前我們現在對於這一個不同黨派的這個溝通策略分頭併進的狀況如何"},{"start":7587.661,"end":7607.361,"text":"我們當然是說對於這個像我們重要的友邦當然是說他們所有的這個不同的這個黨派我們都會有所接觸那麼我們尤其是說當然我們不可避免還是跟執政的這個團隊有更多的這個互動但是我們也沒有說這個在野的就不溝通"},{"start":7608.562,"end":7630.009,"text":"但是現在外交部的一個跟溝通,跟民眾的,像剛剛委員所提到的,我們的形象的形塑,遇到一個很大的問題,就是貴院凍傷我們的相關預算。有一個海外的傷到腹的。等於是完全沒有的時候,其實在外管上面進行相關的工作非常的困難。"},{"start":7630.609,"end":7657.488,"text":"那尤其是在一些地方其實在我們的外交擴展上面可能是有一些這個比較自愛難行的地方所以我們希望能夠加強跟民眾的溝通但是這個事情因為大院把這個刪減掉後我們真的進行上面非常非常的這個也是我現在比較擔心的一件事因為我從去年質詢的時候就一直在講除了組織之外人民的溝通很重要因為人民他態度一旦轉變政治人物必須要跟著做所以我們對人民的溝通其實很需要這些媒宣相關的費用"},{"start":7658.709,"end":7671.473,"text":"好 這個我們再努力 這個我們再努力看能不能這個立法院有一些變化啦好 那這個不好意思 這個主席佔用時間謝謝謝謝謝謝沈副委員召委上台的資訊接下來有習巧欣委員上台執行謝謝主席 那我想先請這個外交部那經濟部我們稍等喔"},{"start":7691.397,"end":7716.23,"text":"委員好您好關於昨天的質詢我們在調查的過程當中因為外交部剛好有兩位同名同姓之人那導致我們誤植其中一位常任文官的照片以及職位那造成當事人的困擾因此在這裡我要先向外交部以及該常任文官以及何先生和他的家人表達最深的歉意"},{"start":7717.918,"end":7733.941,"text":"那昨天呢我也向林佳龍部長就此事聯繫那清楚的表達我的歉意同時我也希望國安局針對林部長所說的偵查中的另外一起的案件同名同姓的政治幕僚吳先生能夠"},{"start":7735.042,"end":7760.824,"text":"盡快的為所謂的共諜案能夠盡快水落石出但是呢我想是這樣子的就是我說錯的人呢就是說錯的人那誤用了他的照片呢我感到非常的抱歉所以在此呢也向您以及這個何先生及其家屬再次的表達歉意那我今天主要跟您談論的是川普的這個關稅政策所以我們也請這個經濟部一起上來"},{"start":7761.673,"end":7773.306,"text":"那部長我們看到這次川普政府緩徵關稅90天等於我們有多了90天的時間來說服美方來降低或取消32%的關稅對我們來說其實是一件很好的事情"},{"start":7777.19,"end":7806.306,"text":"尤其呢昨天還看到了史無前例的是川普總統他在這個宣布政策之前呢他就發布說的呢This is a great time to buy所以呢我們以前都只聽過內線交易那我們第一次看到這個外線交易所以我們今天看到呢台股能夠翻紅我們都覺得非常的開心但這個情況能夠實施多久能夠維持多久這都端看我們外交部以及經濟部的努力喔"},{"start":7806.826,"end":7820.882,"text":"那能夠延遲90天讓國家暫時脫離險境但是我們也注意到其實中國被美國科證125%的關稅那他們今天的股票仍然是上漲的那這一點我們也應該要去注意到"},{"start":7821.783,"end":7844.415,"text":"特別想要問經濟部就是川普他們暫緩及日期各國的32%的這個像我們的32%的稅率剩下各國適用的10%的稅率事實上比原本我們跟美國之間課的稅率還是比較高的那呢仍然會對產業造成影響在這方面我們是否仍然會持續對產業進行協助甚至補貼"},{"start":7847.825,"end":7871.143,"text":"是 谢谢委员的指教其实我们政府有提出这个因应美国关税的产业资源的方案从不同的面向那刚才行政院院会已经通过这个产业资源方案措施不变而且要请院长有才事要请相关的部会要尽速的研拟措施我们在4月14号会对外正式的公布"},{"start":7871.263,"end":7886.69,"text":"那請問一下先前行政院所提出的880億的支持出口供應鏈的方案仍然是以880億的規模持續進行嗎沒錯是的那也會提出特別條例嗎會的好的那呢因為現在的這個關稅那"},{"start":7890.131,"end":7900.602,"text":"除了之前我們講到的這個基本關稅之外先前美國有針對全球產業的特定的部分關稅例如像是鋼鐵業等等的那請問這也包含在這個90天的暫停範圍之內嗎"},{"start":7906.408,"end":7925.033,"text":"沒有鋼鐵業還是維持所以那我想要請問一下除了這個基本關稅的10%以及加徵的32%之外還有哪一些部分是它是特定的產業仍然有比較高的關稅有哪一些產業是如此的"},{"start":7925.473,"end":7949.766,"text":"是 百分之三十二這個已經我們了解改為百分之十一就是延長延長對 除了這個以外呢有鋼鋁的關稅是百分之二十五但是跟委員報告我們先前呢就蘇美的話就是百分之二十五所以現在變成跟其他的國家齊頭的都是百分之二十五那還有其他的產業"},{"start":7951.467,"end":7975.358,"text":"對 還有汽車產業 汽車產業還是維持25%的關稅汽車產業維持25%的關稅還有就是美國對我們的課徵嘛 對不對就是基本的MFN的稅率那原本美國對我們的課徵的稅率是多少看各個產業不同 資通訊產業化是零關稅沒有 我剛剛問的是汽車的部分汽車大概 看不同的零件 大概20%"},{"start":7978.768,"end":7993.954,"text":"20左右2525所以25的部分也是沒有變動的嗎對沒有變動的那有具體變動的還有哪一些你們可以幫我們大家就是民眾很想知道就是說呢我們所謂的這一些"},{"start":7995.134,"end":8012.5,"text":"针对全球产业的部分关税不包含在32%里面的有没有其他的产业是有高于原本的关税这个部分就是钢铝还有汽车产业因为那本来就都一样嘛一样的我们就不谈了那有高于的"},{"start":8013.2,"end":8031.203,"text":"汽车产业您刚刚说25%现在也是25%的话那是没有高于啊所以是不是请补充一下相关的资讯让我们国人知道有增加的部分大概是哪一些川普总统总统曾经有说过可能会对药品半导体"},{"start":8032.605,"end":8053.545,"text":"還有同志品可能會加增關稅到目前為止並沒有這樣的訊息所以可能會有這幾樣那未來呢即便是在32%的關稅延長的狀態之下仍然會另外剋稅的可能性這是你們不排除的嘛那我們現在呢雙方已經都在交換資訊就請那個外交部來回答"},{"start":8054.105,"end":8063.645,"text":"那呢台灣不只是關稅談判還有對美的投資採購等等的我想要問一下我們這次的談判小組的成員有哪一些人來組成"},{"start":8065.265,"end":8085.427,"text":"那麼現在據我們已經公佈的就是由這個行政院副院長姓立軍副院長領隊那其他的這個成員我想都可以想像得到那外交部在裡面是擔任什麼樣的一個角色我們主要是說我們掌握相關的這個管道那麼我們同時每處也隨時會把"},{"start":8086.628,"end":8110.683,"text":"相關的訊息能夠傳遞回來台灣包括我們之前的時候的掛號也都是進行的了解我們對美關稅談判的首席代表是鄭麗君女士這一次的特別的是由這個政院宣布是由這個正副院長來對正副院長那在領銜的部分請問他已經出訪或是聯繫美方了嗎"},{"start":8111.443,"end":8122.545,"text":"這是我們普遍透露因為就是說包括這個第一個說昨天的他人還在國內嘛對不對新聞報導是如此寫的如果不對的話可以告訴我們讓我們能夠刊物"},{"start":8123.56,"end":8140.731,"text":"報告委員這個我們沒有訊息你們沒有訊息那我剛講的是新聞上的訊息那你們可以不回應這個沒有問題那所以如果因為我們質疑的地方是如果鄭麗君副院長還在國內的話那他到底要怎麼樣去談判"},{"start":8142.552,"end":8154.278,"text":"那他有沒有打電話給川普的官員能夠來通電話 因為我們看到的事情是其實呢 不管是 我們可以看這些人他們包含是美國的財長 這個我們看到好幾位的高層都已經到這個華府去面對面的協商 或者是打了這個相關的電話去"},{"start":8164.804,"end":8181.024,"text":"那我另外再問一個問題就是去年川普政府其實他在選舉的期間就已經提出過他要利用關稅這件事情來進行對全世界的一些可能他們的貿易的策略我們可以看一下"},{"start":8182.805,"end":8207.113,"text":"當時呢我們的這個外交部的政務次長吳志忠次長那他呢就說這個川普聲稱台灣偷走美國晶片的生意是選舉語言那外交部對於過去次長這樣的說法那是不是會覺得因此我們晚了很多的時間來做準備我們當初真的把它當成了選舉語言嗎"},{"start":8208.857,"end":8230.938,"text":"報告委員這個選舉議員當然是一部分那另外一個部分就是說其實可能一部分的這個美國的政治領袖對於台灣晶片的這個優勢有一些這個不完整的一個掌握所以我們也盡力的跟他們溝通台灣做到這樣的一個程度並不是所謂的偷走的問題而是我們在技術上面精益修新"},{"start":8231.499,"end":8258.553,"text":"但是因為川普已經不是第一次說是偷走的問題那我們請主席再給我一點時間最後一個問題就是美國的商務部長剛剛大家都有提到了那他在4月3號的時候接受那個訪問的時候表示說川普將會深入研究這些內容也就是剛剛我們經濟部談到的包含半導體等等措施會陸續提出那要目的是要把所有來自台灣的半導體"},{"start":8260.535,"end":8282.309,"text":"產業移植回美國經濟部如果有需要的話可以來回應這個題目那這個關於CNBC的逐字稿裡面寫得很清楚Donald Trump is going to deeply study thoseand those are going to come lateron how to ensure from Taiwan all that manufacturing"},{"start":8282.609,"end":8306.012,"text":"所以呢他基本上所有的半導體產業他裡面寫的是all不是have或是some of所以我想要請問就針對美國商務部長的這個訪問裡面他提到的措施是會陸續把台灣的半導體產業全部的移到美國這個部分經濟部的看法目前是如何評估狀況是如何"},{"start":8307.894,"end":8323.214,"text":"其實我們的業者到海外的布局最主要的考量是要客戶的需求因為可以就近的接近客戶例如像美國有很多的大廠他需要因為要發展AI要發展人工運算所以都會"},{"start":8323.715,"end":8349.794,"text":"如果是我了解如果是我們主動去的話當然沒有問題但如果是像這樣子這個方這個說法是美國商務部長要求就以美方的角度要求半導體要來到美國因為就像川普說的他一直強調他講了至少三次以上說呢台灣偷走了美國的晶片跟這個半導體這句話我想我之前也問過林佳龍部長他也不同意"},{"start":8350.154,"end":8375.394,"text":"甚至我問了一些美方的友人他們也不是這麼的同意但是呢現在川普他上任之後他以及他的相關的商務部長他們的說法都是要把台灣的半導體全部移回美國因為你看原文他確實是用all的方式all that他就說all that所以他說全部都要移到美國去那我們對這方面有進行相關的因應或是準備嗎"},{"start":8377.416,"end":8395.884,"text":"因為半導體的發展它是需要時間所以我們原則上我們必須要掌握的最先進的技術一定要留在台灣這個部分我們同時同步的也會協助我們的廠商進行相關的研發一直把最先進的技術給開發出來留在台灣"},{"start":8397.645,"end":8420.812,"text":"那最後問一個問題就是呢因為台積電到美國那投資一千到兩千億左右這件事情也引發台灣不少的議論那大家就在問的是說那聯電是否也會出走這件事情請問經濟部是否有掌握或者是這是一個不對的消息是不是可以幫我們澄清一下我們對於市場的傳言不做任何的評論好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":8423.865,"end":8443.077,"text":"謝謝習小平委員的上台諮詢待會陳冠廷委員諮詢完畢之後我們休息待會我們就楊瓊瑜委員諮詢完畢之後我們就休息五分鐘請陳冠廷委員上台諮詢"},{"start":8474.468,"end":8484.083,"text":"我們先請外交部委員您好是次長嗎是"},{"start":8485.305,"end":8509.205,"text":"市長 我們來看一下現在整體的外交的政策可能我們要變成一個要調整的階段過去這一二十年來 我們跟美國應該說二三十年來 包含美國為主的我們的盟邦都是以貿易促進外交 用外交來促進包含中國等國的改變"},{"start":8511.167,"end":8536.527,"text":"那在2000年初那有嘗試著來去做這樣子的做法但是經過20多年的這種交往之後我們發覺到中國他在市場上面的這種傾銷掠奪或者是用補貼等等不對等的做法之後那以美國為首的盟國開始知道說這是中國是可能是沒有辦法做完整的全面性的公平的貿易所以開始改用貿易"},{"start":8537.708,"end":8558.13,"text":"作為一個武器特別是在川普總統之後那所以貿易作為武器來去遏止中國的這種勢力的這種拓展那在今天我們可以看到他是已經再次被證實了包含許多盟國大概都是在10%左右但是"},{"start":8558.911,"end":8577.691,"text":"中國卻被強制增到100多%那對我國來講它的非紅供應鏈它是可以去壓制中國的我想請教一下市長你們針對這個外交上面戰略的變化有沒有做好準備跟未來的我們要怎麼樣去把我們的論述做調整"},{"start":8578.499,"end":8601.809,"text":"是,謝謝委員的這個提問那麼我們這個外交當然是跟著整個大的一個形勢在變那它有它變的地方跟它不變的地方不變的地方是在於這個台灣跟美國之間的這個安全承諾那麼以及在這個維護台海和平穩定上面的一個共同的努力這個是沒有改變我們看到是說包括在"},{"start":8602.829,"end":8624.074,"text":"這個美日高峰會議的時候的聯合聲明那個美日韓三國外長在慕尼黑場邊慕尼安全對話場邊的這個聯合聲明以及G7的外長這個會議聯合聲明上面其實都展現了以及我們看到美國的這個新任國防部長Hexes那麼他就任以來第一次的出訪訪問了菲律賓訪問了日本"},{"start":8626.355,"end":8642.334,"text":"像這個東西都展現出他對這個區域的一個這個承諾那麼第二個是說他們堅定守護這個地方的環境穩定的等一下市長我在講的是說我們未來的論述我不是要叫你敘述現在的狀況比方說我們未來論述可以說什麼"},{"start":8642.975,"end":8671.145,"text":"然後我國跟美國的安全上面為主包含一些資源的運送到台灣我們是整個跟美國做一個結合這就是飛鴻供應的一個最好的方式從能源開始到製造業開始那我們是美國最好的夥伴那在這些東西我們可以化作為我們談判的優勢這是我們的論述之一鞏固台灣可以鞏固美國的利益鞏固台灣的利益就是鞏固美國的利益類似這樣的論述是可以做改變的我不是請你敘述"},{"start":8671.605,"end":8693.978,"text":"說現在的狀況是怎麼樣完全同意喔那包含第二個是說其實川普總統那麼對於這個AI的重視那這個台灣的製造業的這個能力其實是美國最好的夥伴的關係如果美國要繼續在AI的這個領域上面有一個獨步全國的一個這個地位的話台灣是不可或缺的一部分好 謝謝我謝謝外交部我們請這個談判代表我們的副總談判代表"},{"start":8707.211,"end":8721.665,"text":"美國近日有32%的關稅,我們現在正式大概是會暫緩,會以10%來去課稅那歐盟呢?歐盟也是一樣,現在所有的國家都是,現在有180個國家以上都是10%"},{"start":8728.553,"end":8750.765,"text":"那川普的這個他最新的宣布是75個國家會有10%那其實是不只75個國家對他是對全球都科徵對等關稅而對等關稅的起步的稅率是10%那有50就是他現在所謂的75個國家是有比10%更高的個別國家關稅像台灣就是有32%的關稅他現在是暫緩這個個別國家的對等關稅"},{"start":8754.332,"end":8781.089,"text":"OK 所以就是回復到10% 是那歐盟 我這麼講好像是歐盟儘管說有做某種程度的對等的報復但是他目前還是10%還是維持10%還是維持10%那所以說這證明說美國他對他的盟友在此時此刻還是有跟非盟友是有差別對待的我們這樣的理解是可以的嗎目前我們所看到的只有對於中國他直接立即提高關稅其他的國家都是維持10%"},{"start":8782.506,"end":8797.944,"text":"近期我們看到美國企業研究所就是AEI它有說到這個實際的稅率它提到說它的這個公式裡面對台灣的公式是公佈數值的大約四分之一所以對日本的關稅不應該是24%對台灣的關稅不應該是32%我們現在是有豁免大概90天對不對"},{"start":8802.631,"end":8822.265,"text":"是所以在這90天的過程中包含這些智庫我們跟智庫的合作跟他們的輿論的影響其實是有重要性的我想這一次就是因為這樣子川普總統才能夠把32%先暫緩執行90天那我必須想請教一下副代表以這樣子的公式來看的話"},{"start":8823.581,"end":8849.1,"text":"他是在錯誤的地方在哪裡就是他們當初在美方政府他的錯誤的地方在哪裡那AI他們標示的計算的不合理的地方在哪裡這個公式我們可能要回去再去研析一下但是最主要的是我們認為現在因為他的計算方式基本上是用台灣的貿易逆差去出於美國從台灣進口的總額所以那我們覺得台灣的貿易逆差"},{"start":8849.86,"end":8871.548,"text":"實際上他只用這個去年所產生的這個數字並不是很公平的對台灣去做一個衡量因為我們這兩年是因為第一個在這個美中的第一代的貿易戰之下然後大量的台商回流第二個是因為台灣在美國在AI產業的促進之下所以我們很多的產品這些半導體有關的產品大量出現"},{"start":8873.849,"end":8890.517,"text":"他們相關的新聞出到現在已經有一週了那我們現在有90天的時間當然比較好但是如果說過了一週我們還沒有這AI是很重要的智庫當他們在替我們說話的時候我們還沒有辦法去理解說這個公式的不合理性"},{"start":8891.383,"end":8917.459,"text":"那就是我們必須要快速的去應對的包含經濟部也是昨天經濟部部長有被質詢到那這些理解的方式跟要趕快讓我們的這一些領導的部會的首長能夠快速的去理解這樣可不可以沒有問題那我想我現在簡單看了一下他主要是提到的是美國因為他對於所有的進口國家的來源他的所謂進口替代的這些價格的彈性"},{"start":8917.861,"end":8937.318,"text":"他都給予同樣的價格但是每個國家實際上跟美國的關係是不同的沒錯 好 謝謝那副代表趕快再講一下這個關於整體的談判架構上面我們現在很擔心的特別是農業線或者是傳產的產業我們擔心的是說他們把這個半導體排除然後來去談農業跟這個傳產的話"},{"start":8940.763,"end":8963.313,"text":"對我們的這個談判的優勢會不會來去做削減那我們希望說能夠以單一整體性的協議架構就是說把我們的這個擔心的部分特別是農業的部分因為我們非常擔心這個談判辦公室有沒有針對說如果未來為了換取台灣的整體出口利益而必須在稻米牛豬等其他的敏感的農產品上"},{"start":8964.634,"end":8979.455,"text":"可能要對美國會不會有這樣子要做更大程度的開放如果是這樣的話那對我們的衝擊就會很大我想請教一下你們有沒有先做可能的情境來進行政府的這個模擬的整備工作至少這些數字還有這些計算有沒有開始在做這些事情呢"},{"start":8980.203,"end":8997.912,"text":"我想我們從去年11月開始在行政院這邊已經成立了台美經貿工作小組就一直在做這些研擬那我們在預作準備那當然32%公布之後呢對台灣來說因為前幾天我們總統也已經宣布了就是說我們接下來會希望以零關稅為基礎來開始做協商"},{"start":9000.458,"end":9024.791,"text":"那這對我們農業的就會有開始我們擔憂啦可能就對我們農業就會有影響那現在的880億的特別預算裡面針對農業是180億所以說談判辦公室的有任何的跟農業相關的進度的話就必須要立刻轉資農業部讓農業部在做未來的準備的時候有足夠的資源來去跟足夠的時間來去應變那我還是在特別講因為現在"},{"start":9025.771,"end":9038.608,"text":"每天都有變化每天都有變化每天都必須要掌握我們的詮釋權跟我們的話語權像是AEI它能夠在第一時間就來提出說這一個算是對日本跟台灣不公平"},{"start":9039.562,"end":9067.101,"text":"是他們提出來了喔是駐美在美國在美國的智庫在聽我們說話那我們直到昨天包含其他委員在質詢經濟部部長的時候沒有再做這個快速的回應的話那我們必須要比他們還要再早這是第一點第二點也行外交部在對美的這些智庫不管是傳統基金會AEI這些比較跟共和黨親近的執政黨親近的智庫立刻要做好"},{"start":9068.052,"end":9082.771,"text":"更完善的一個說詞跟說法確保我國的利益能夠被保護好不好那完全同意我們跟AEI跟這個heritage都有非常密切的關係很好因為我還是在強調這個這沒有什麼好大的一盤棋是"},{"start":9083.345,"end":9101.71,"text":"有的是我們要把我們所有的資源都放在能夠使用的資源上面所有的說法所有的管道所有的全面性的來去營造對台灣有利的輿論環境只有對台灣有利的輿論環境我們才可以爭取到更多的外交籌碼這是中等國家必須要爭取的"},{"start":9102.29,"end":9103.411,"text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員上台諮詢接下來有楊瓊英委員上台諮詢"},{"start":9131.243,"end":9135.164,"text":"我們來討論美國對等關稅政策峰迴路轉川普在9日的時候宣布暫緩對等關稅90天"},{"start":9158.692,"end":9182.611,"text":"那期間對於貿易夥伴的部分全面來施行10%的關稅但是我們也不能掉以輕心因為訊息萬變政府應該要更積極的來應對總統也宣布了由行政院副院長來領軍的關稅談判小組那其中裡面包括我們整個國安體系、外交體系、經貿、辦公室等"},{"start":9183.331,"end":9211.647,"text":"政府也持續說透過各種的方案以及管道來做溝通所以本期要請教昨天國發會主委在經濟委員會他說了他說我們是優先的剛剛經濟部部長郭部長在經濟委員會我跟他的詢問當中他說我們是列在第一波那我們看到鄰近國家日韓不管是見面或者通電話都已經上入ING了"},{"start":9212.287,"end":9236.084,"text":"那所以首先在這邊請教,我們什麼時候會談?是,那麼我們掌握所有的管道把訊息做充分的溝通那麼跟委員報告,我們現在就像這個已經說了就是說我們已經掛了號,那麼就是由美國來按照他的這個時程跟他對於這個,我們會爭取"},{"start":9237.705,"end":9266.905,"text":"那麼爭取的兩個東西就是第一個是說我們的整個的談判的內容必須要齊備那麼第二個是說那麼也要跟美國隨時保持信任那我要跟這個委員說明一下我們現在這個駐美代表處透過所有的管道包括國會包括智庫包括這個對於川普總統的影響力請告訴本席提問是說我也將郭部長所說的我們是列在第一波"},{"start":9268.486,"end":9288.318,"text":"國發會主委告訴我們的是我們是優先那我們呢我們在這90天內我們會在30天內談嗎因為川普的次子艾瑞克他說了他在社群平台上面發文他說我絕對不會想要當最後一個跟川普"},{"start":9289.719,"end":9311.601,"text":"這個協商的國家因為第一個來談判的就是贏家最後一個是輸家當然社群上面的所說明也不代表美國的官方但是一定是越早談對我們越好所以請教市長我們在這樣的一個條件之下那我們的這個台美又是非常的友好我們會在30天內慘嗎"},{"start":9313.069,"end":9329.35,"text":"這個我們沒有辦法做保證那麼要看看這個對方掌握的這個情形談判辦公室 來 謝謝談判辦公室謝謝委員我們會在30天內談嗎就誠如郭部長說的我們是第一波誠如劉主委說的我們是優先請說明"},{"start":9330.851,"end":9347.333,"text":"我想我們就是努力爭取那我覺得對台灣來說我們知己知彼知友都是我們現在在等待的過程就是我們實際上在觀察其他國家去跟美國現在談判的一個過程實際上也是協助台灣來準備所以我覺得不論是列在哪一國我想你們兩位"},{"start":9348.734,"end":9375.072,"text":"今天代表來到立法院答詢那就是非常重要在這一次談判當中的重要的重中之重我們也希望因為產業很緊張我們的農業也很緊張在這種情況之下我們希望能夠盡速來談這是人民的心聲我們不希望聽到的都是"},{"start":9375.993,"end":9401.18,"text":"沒有答案的那我們真的非常希望大家加油好好的來幫助我們自己的國內產業以及我們的人民所以接下來本席要請教今天在報告書當中我們也擴大對美國的投資讓台美經貿合作更加的密切來提升台灣經貿戰略的地位那我們也"},{"start":9401.86,"end":9431.039,"text":"看到你們的報告除了台積電會對美債投資至少一千億美元之外台灣的企業也響應美國商務部所舉辦的選擇美國投資高峰會那外交部也跟相關的單位產業來協助來了解那麼要怎麼樣赴美來投資所以本席要請教經濟部也在這裡那請教外交部跟經濟部是政府所組的台灣投資美國"},{"start":9432.58,"end":9458.953,"text":"剛剛在經濟委員會當中我們也跟部長充分來討論那麼也針對了總統在外媒當中所說的我們針對哪一些項目那郭部長也回答對 我們就是朝這個方向的項目去做所以本席要請教重點是不是在半導體跟ICT產業是不是如此"},{"start":9459.853,"end":9482.949,"text":"但是我們也希望在國內的產業我們究竟是要怎麼樣能夠維護我們的根基能夠穩定下來我想這個也是在你們談判的過程當中保障國內產業也是非常的重要所以請教是不是朝總統先生所說的這個方向在外媒他的投書上面所說的來請"},{"start":9483.894,"end":9498.824,"text":"是 那總統今天在這個Bloomberg上面所發表的這個台灣的這個路徑圖那正是我們所要進行的跟美方的這個談判的策略包括投資 包括採購那跟委員報告所以項目方向大概就是"},{"start":9499.964,"end":9518.329,"text":"這個這些項目基本上面是這些項目但是不只限於這些項目比如說有關於半導體就是台積電這個承諾的這個1000億美金加上之前已經開始投產的這個650億美金再加上這個其他的這個SELAC USA上面可能有很多的這個ITC產業會過去但是也要"},{"start":9520.209,"end":9549.139,"text":"包括所謂的我們在這個中油跟這個阿拉斯加已經簽訂了這個意向書那麼關於他們有關於這個天然氣管的這個投資案那這些東西都是對於台灣非常重要的包括說天然氣這是增加台灣的能源韌性包括對於台積電包括ITC產業其實一定程度上是我們要來救進客戶我們的大量採購有將天然氣呢要這個這個達到大概三成左右"},{"start":9549.819,"end":9550.579,"text":"報告委員因為現在技術的發展呢"},{"start":9577.632,"end":9592.052,"text":"這個核電呢它現在是有在進步所以我們如果是要有這個採購核能相關的產品必須要有三個原則第一個呢就是要去確保核能的安全第二個呢"},{"start":9592.642,"end":9607.581,"text":"要核廢料的處置一定要完善第三個最重要的就是必須要有全民的共識這三點的基本原則是一定要掌握住的但是我們是持一個開放的態度來進行討論"},{"start":9608.783,"end":9636.783,"text":"一個開放的態度這是我們這一段時間這一兩個月來聽到的政府告訴我們在新人員的新技術裡頭我們是採開放的所以接下來本席要請教原本的32%讓大家就是繃緊了神經總統也喊出了五項的策略因應也喊出了比照美墨加自貿協定"},{"start":9637.924,"end":9654.265,"text":"那也就是說我們從零關稅開始來談但是本想要請教外交部跟我們的經貿辦我們會朝FTA或者是BTA還是單純由我們自己主動來降關稅來談呢因為我們知道"},{"start":9655.006,"end":9679.77,"text":"有學者就指出了川普上議院的時候他就不談FTA所以如果想要在這個架構上去談降關稅似乎不是很可能但是也不是不可能因為現在千變萬化但是郭部長昨天也特別表示會朝這個方向他也說機率高不高他沒有辦法去做決定"},{"start":9680.791,"end":9697.331,"text":"所以我們在蔡總統的時候她也以這個方向但是我們萊豬進來了我們還是得不到什麼所以在這樣的一個情況之下想要請教辦公室跟外交部我們現在談判的方向"},{"start":9698.68,"end":9718.845,"text":"到底是什麼呢請說謝謝委員那我想我們基本上就是從零關稅開始談那現在台灣出口到美國有76%零關稅美國到台灣則62%零關稅所以我們就是從這個基礎往上去討論探討哪一些產品可以逐步的去擴大我們零關稅"},{"start":9719.705,"end":9732.959,"text":"的範圍那目的就是要去降低我們的貿易利差以及降低我們對等關稅的稅率所以這個不論是採取哪一種的經貿協定的模式那我想這個都是我們要去跟美國協商的方向結果想要去平衡這個均衡嘛那請教會專部"},{"start":9738.853,"end":9752.128,"text":"貿易談判主要是由OTM來負責,但是外交部的策略一定全面配合。第二個是說,我們首要的目標當然是要減低我們的關稅。第二個是說,在這個上面是不是能夠把台美雙邊貿易的關係制度化。"},{"start":9756.292,"end":9779.118,"text":"所以再包括您所提到的FTA啦Bilateral Trade Agreement等等的這些東西我想都是在我們談判的這個目標之一但是能夠達到多少就看是雙方的這個談判的具體的這個結果多少的選項因為是多元那所以本席給一個答案國內的產業務必能夠要保障國內的農業"},{"start":9781.943,"end":9809.31,"text":"以及國內的食安是在你們談判當中非常重要的必要因子的一個保障這是本席語重心長的來建議你們我們希望台灣是一個好的國家我們務必一定要好好的保障我們的人民謝謝謝謝楊瓊怡委員上來致敬那現在休息五分鐘五分鐘之後繼續的答詢"},{"start":9816.868,"end":9817.734,"text":"開始用剪刀"},{"start":10166.13,"end":10167.232,"text":"謝謝收看,下次見!"},{"start":10182.256,"end":10182.276,"text":"好"},{"start":10218.402,"end":10222.344,"text":"現在開始開會我們請陳俊宇委員上台致敬"},{"start":10239.67,"end":10255.189,"text":"好,謝謝主席,我們有請我們外交部的陳次長,還有我們行政院經貿談判辦公室的我們的嚴副作,還有我們大陸委員會的省副主委"},{"start":10260.617,"end":10283.648,"text":"市長、各位首長大家午安今天在立法院多個委員會都聚焦在美國對等關稅衝擊各國的相關議題上我們看到川普的決策也是瞬息萬變在我們台灣時間今天凌晨已經宣布他將暫緩"},{"start":10286.35,"end":10303.749,"text":"這個對等關稅90天並且有75個國家已經主張要和美國來討論相關的這個貿易的相關議題那他們對此只要是對於美國友善的部分他們對等關稅的稅率會先維持在10%左右"},{"start":10307.608,"end":10317.617,"text":"川普更表示未來他如果能夠在談判的過程裡面希望他能夠跟每一個國家坐下來談親自要下去談"},{"start":10318.987,"end":10343.155,"text":"他也指示貿易團隊對於每一個友善的這些有美的國家一定要制定特製的貿易協議每一份協議都要根據該國的市場還有該國出口的產品美國進口等情況來量身訂做以確保美國勞工和產業"},{"start":10344.897,"end":10348.39,"text":"有利的一個方案,那在此我想就叫我們"},{"start":10350.098,"end":10377.98,"text":"相關部會就我們準備的這些方案自身的這個優勢研判川普在未來的90天後會不會對台灣來調降關稅這個機會高不高那另外在整個這個過程裡面我們也觀察到美中之間的互不相讓到關稅政策的急轉彎我們如何來觀察川普的相關策略及中國的反應"},{"start":10379.221,"end":10404.778,"text":"那接下來可能這個美中之間會不會有相關的這個策略轉彎的狀況?是,跟委員報告,首先是說就我們的這個談判的這個策略,那像這個包括總統禮拜天的談話,那麼今天在Bloomberg上面的這個投書,我想都已經把我們的談判策略與談判優勢都講得很清楚。第二,如果我們已經commit對於美國的投資,"},{"start":10405.798,"end":10432.846,"text":"對於美國的採購而且我們在這個五月的時候還會有Select USA以及相關的這個採購團去到美國這些採購並不是只是一個裝點門面而是譬如說像這個對於這個天然氣的這個採購包括對於這個供應鏈的這個投資都是我們的國家整個經濟結構轉型以及我們國家的這個安全的韌性上面的這個提升所以是我們所需要的"},{"start":10433.186,"end":10462.339,"text":"所以這個是我們的談判的策略第二個是說我們在科技上面的優勢那麼這也是我們的談判策略就是說美國如果希望在AI上面能夠取得全球領導的地位的話台灣必然是不可或缺的一部分那我們希望用我們的誠意跟我們的做好功課能夠跟美國做最萬全的一個準備我們不敢預期說它會對我們降多少關鍵但我覺得我們是可以樂觀以待的有機會降低嗎"},{"start":10463.154,"end":10482.141,"text":"我覺得是他既然已經說了是說這個第一個這個美國財政部長Benson說其實我們現在看到這個對等關稅他的這個上限那個是屬於上限而不是屬於所以我們要用我們的做好功課然後拿出我們的誠意包括對於有關於這個"},{"start":10484.582,"end":10501.698,"text":"非關稅的貿易障礙的部分我們跟美方充分的溝通然後能夠做適合的調整我想我們有很好的機會能夠得到比較好的後果這我們也期待啦我們也請我們相關部會就是準備齊全啦那美中關係會不會在這個"},{"start":10504.38,"end":10520.638,"text":"美中關係分了好幾個層次,包括安全經貿,包括其他的共享的價值文化等等我想在所有的地方,我們跟美國在價值上面一致,在利益上面也是一致然後在安全上面有共同的一個需求"},{"start":10521.178,"end":10547.037,"text":"所以我可以來說是說包括從這個我們剛才提到的這個美日的峰會那麼的聲明包括美日韓在這個慕尼黑這個安全對話之後的共同聲明包括在G7上面這已經說明了說其實以及很重要的這個美國的這個新任國防部長在亞洲型上面所發表的聲明也充分的表示他們對於這個地區的重視那在各個"},{"start":10549.678,"end":10568.567,"text":"這個最近這個這個中國對我們的這個洗腦上面那麼國務院以及美國相關單位甚至包括歐盟等等都展現出對於台海的和平穩定的關切我想這讓我們感到說在安全上面有很多可以做到在經貿上面就這一次因為昨天的這個豁免也讓我們看到是說"},{"start":10569.327,"end":10582.716,"text":"雖然是暫時的豁免但是我們是在美國的這一邊我們是在所謂的整個價值的這個非紅工意念的一邊所以在這基礎上面我覺得說台美關係會有很好的一個發展的機會"},{"start":10583.889,"end":10611.722,"text":"持續觀察對於美國財政部長貝森特也有談到美方可能會和日本、韓國還有台灣等重要的亞洲經濟夥伴來達成一項阿拉斯加能源投資的協議而美國與主要的貿易國談判的時候不會拘泥於關稅與傳統貿易的協定而是把能源還有國防等多項議題結合"},{"start":10613.323,"end":10636.74,"text":"也對非貿易領域的談判表示歡迎那我想對於阿拉斯加能源協議我們會是接下來台美談判的一個關鍵嗎那未來在台美相關的協議協商的機制當中是否應該在經濟貿易合作的基礎上進一步強調我國的能源經濟還有國家安全的相關議題"},{"start":10638.335,"end":10666.759,"text":"對 當然所以我們要把這個對阿拉斯加的這個天然氣採購案以及投資案看成其實第一個是增加我們的能源韌性從美國運來台灣比這個從中東運來台灣其實它來得近這個也是我們就近的一個考慮過去的時候因為中共美國的這個限制那麼從美國進口這個天然氣比較困難那現在既然拜登政府有意的打開這條路的話我們當然很願意掌握這樣的機會第二個"},{"start":10667.319,"end":10685.251,"text":"它是台美關係中間一個重要的槓桿我們事實上跟委員報告我們事實上是甚至是早於日本早於韓國去談這個阿拉斯加的這個天然氣的案子事實上我們也做了相關的一個承諾目前來說我們進度是最好的"},{"start":10686.36,"end":10712.41,"text":"好那川普也希望說他們的這個製造業能夠回流到美國並且要求這個相關的這個國家能夠增加對美國的投資也期望我們台灣的這個半導體能夠加速前往美國來佈局這個會與我們台灣提升在非紅供應鏈的這個地位的目標然後兩者之間應該要如何來互補那以確保我們台灣的一個戰略地位不受影響"},{"start":10713.174,"end":10742.632,"text":"是 那麼我們這個在半導體上面就是這個我們研發生根台灣產線佈局全球但是在這個脈絡之下然後我們也能夠接就近這個我們的客戶畢竟我們的很多的客戶是在美國所以我想在台積電他們作為一個民間企業私人企業他有這樣的一個考量所以去做了投資這個投資現在也開始產生效益第一個是說在建廠階段對於美國提供了大量的建築工人的這個第二個"},{"start":10743.212,"end":10767.412,"text":"提供匯來這個高科技的就業界第三個對於很多層重要對於我們的半導體產業來說是究竟那麼接近美國除了接近客戶之外還有一個是接近這個美國的強大的研究的能力包括對AI包括對於未來的可能的這個量子的這個電腦那麼都能夠往那個地方能夠得到更好的一個機會所以是跟美國的安全以及美國"},{"start":10768.253,"end":10775.825,"text":"想要在AI上面在所謂的Cyber Space上面能夠繼續的領先全球是至關重要的一部分"},{"start":10776.34,"end":10787.909,"text":"好,那另外我們為了平衡台美貿易的順逆差,我們政府也提出要擴大對美採購的策略,其中由我們外交部還有農業部將籌組農業的訪問,預計這個九月,跟剛剛次長您說的十月應該是不同的一個採購的團體。"},{"start":10799.378,"end":10825.76,"text":"那我們農訪團赴美採購的這個時間和相關的這個規劃是否已經這個定案那會不會再提前我們現在來說的話目前得到的訊息是按照原來的時程走畢竟我們五月馬上會有幾個團不是一個團包括SelectUSA那麼包括這個我們的這個民間的產業工會所帶領的那麼外交部全力配合的以及在國防產業上面"},{"start":10826.641,"end":10844.973,"text":"那麼都會陸續的在五月的時候到訪美國我想希望能夠在這個上面提供我們跟美國談判上面一個重要的槓桿那麼也會充分的利用這個透過訊息能夠讓這個美國的政府了解到我們對於美國的這個投資以及採購是有十足的誠意"},{"start":10846.034,"end":10862.069,"text":"另外我們擴大採購的這些農特產品的規劃,包括稻米還有基改的作物等等,是否會衝擊到我們國內的農業?外交部是否和農業部已經和縣市政府進行盤點跟評估?"},{"start":10864.713,"end":10890.98,"text":"這個部分比較多的是我們負責去這個對外的這個溝通談判那當然說相關的這個對於我們本國的農業的衝擊主要是由農業部來的但是我的了解是說其實農業部在這上面也做了萬全的準備既然我們要對煤採購那麼對於國內的這個農業會有產生的這個衝擊那麼我想說包括在農業部包括在行政院這個地方都已經做好的這個相關的一個準備"},{"start":10892.54,"end":10916.693,"text":"好,這個農業跟農民是相對的弱勢,那我也請我們未來的採購團在整個過程裡面,務必要特別的謹慎保護好我們佔領的農業我們一定權衡國內的考慮,以及對於我們重要有盟的關係,兩者權重之下來做我們相關的採購跟談判好,謝謝次長那因為時間因素,兩位副作會後如果有時間再請教,謝謝"},{"start":10922.532,"end":10942.102,"text":"謝謝陳俊宇委員上台之訊接下來由李倩琦委員上台之訊好 謝謝主席我們請外交部陳次長"},{"start":10951.645,"end":10967.359,"text":"本席今天針對整個國際局勢現在在快速的變動那美國對中國採取的這個高關稅跟戰略圍堵的政策而且擴大了對等關稅到其他的經濟體台灣作為出口導向經濟面的這個部分遭受到直接的衝擊這是第一個"},{"start":10967.959,"end":10981.566,"text":"然後第二個共軍頻繁的引煉也封鎖了台海的周邊暴露我們能源跟物流體系的脆弱那第三個部分是川普主義的回溯那美國外交政策不確定性就上升了"},{"start":10982.947,"end":11003.541,"text":"在這個時候歐盟也開始思索對美國的依賴那我們更需要謹慎的因應那今天的質詢我想要聚焦在外交部如何強化對美的溝通跟推動美國跟美國FTA的進程還有我們對全球政經風險有沒有必要來重新佈局外交經貿戰略來確保我們的利益跟經貿的安全"},{"start":11004.761,"end":11030.478,"text":"所以您也知道我們整個權力在重組國際局勢的權力重組規則也在重建那麼在川普的這個強勢回歸再次走向貿易的保護主義跟單邊主義的路線全球經貿現在的秩序大亂那台灣在對美經貿政策外交安全跟供應鏈佈局上現在面臨很大的挑戰那你們的這個角色又相形非常重要"},{"start":11031.218,"end":11057.052,"text":"那也因為美中戰略競合的態勢一直持續美國對中國及其全球的貿易網絡的圍堵也外溢到影響到台灣所以32%的關稅引起我們的很大的震撼那出口導向經濟的核心利益直接被衝擊當然昨天已經做出一些調整但是很多地方還是值得檢討那現在的架構台灣還沒有跟美國簽訂自由貿易協定"},{"start":11059.153,"end":11082.85,"text":"第二個部分是21世紀倡議貿易倡議到現在也只有制度性的對話跟初步的章節的安排也沒有實質的保障那我們如何來強化兩台美的經貿關係快速FTA的進程那本席這邊的問題是如果川普繼續落實他所有對美國剋稅者皆將遭反制的稅責邏輯"},{"start":11084.471,"end":11099.368,"text":"台灣作為順差來源國的波及影響可能會是長時間那外交部與駐美的代表處現階段跟美國國會白宮幕僚跟產業界整個的溝通計畫跟情形的評估是不是可以請教次長"},{"start":11099.989,"end":11115.763,"text":"那麼我們傳統上面每處跟美國的國會都議員那麼保持著非常良好的關係那麼這一次我們的跟美國的談判也透過很多的有我的參議員透過剛才講的國會白宮物料產業界"},{"start":11116.724,"end":11141.136,"text":"那麼白宮幕僚的方面的話我們當然也是透過正式的管道跟各界的這個官員能夠接觸現在這個我們跟USTR包括美國的USTR包括美國的這個財政部以及美國的商務部都已經取得聯繫那就好像這個委員在這個我們媒體上面看到就是說我們已經掛號成功我想這就是一個我們對美工作的一個成果"},{"start":11141.716,"end":11165.984,"text":"那麼對外圍的智庫我們希望能夠去形塑他們對於台灣的經濟發展的一個正確的認識這個東西也同時也要讓他們知道說台灣希望利用了用這一次的一個機會做整個經濟體質上面的一個調整所以對美國的這個白宮的幕僚你們現在有相關的管道是 沒錯這個是我們在他們對接著的幕僚都有產業界的部分"},{"start":11166.904,"end":11189.257,"text":"產業界的部分當然是以我們跟美國產業的緊密結合的程度我們當然也動員我們在產業界的人脈那這個部分你們有沒有機會匯後提供給本席這邊你們再評估一個簡單的相關的資料但是其實很多的東西可能牽涉到雙方的判判他們協助的時候不太希望能夠曝光"},{"start":11190.598,"end":11208.727,"text":"好的那就請外交部就一個架構上然後你目前掌握的一個比例讓本席了解好那第二個部分我們來談一下這個地緣政治那中共最近多次透過環台性的封鎖性的軍事演習對於我們的能源物流跟貿易的動線我們看出了我們的脆弱性"},{"start":11209.367,"end":11228.348,"text":"那這不僅是軍事的威嚇對經貿有可能產生很大的直接挑戰所以這類情境我們是不是有建立海域封鎖下國際支持與通報網絡第二個部分是我們是不是有主動與美方或其他戰略夥伴建立預警、能源協助跟國際供應鏈重啟機制"},{"start":11230.35,"end":11247.167,"text":"那畢竟當前貿易戰也有一些灰色的地帶那所以美國外交的不穩定性那也導致歐盟對於之前的這個俄烏戰爭知道目前他們有可能在原烏的這個相關的資源會中斷那也威脅到"},{"start":11248.362,"end":11263.772,"text":"北約那美國拉近俄羅斯的這樣一個戰略大家都也很憂慮所以我們就歐盟現在開始檢討美制武器的依賴程度那我想我國在這個部分也有很大的影響所以在這個部分"},{"start":11264.853,"end":11286.319,"text":"美國的可預測性現在變動性非常高所以外交部是不是有評估報告來針對未來美國縮減如果美國縮減印太地區的軍事承諾那我們要如何因應第二個部分我們有沒有思考跟歐洲日本還有印度等本地來擴大政治備援的這個網絡來分散我們對單一強權的依附"},{"start":11288.277,"end":11308.093,"text":"是 報告委員 第一個是說我們現在並沒有感受到美國對於這個區域的安全承諾有任何降低的一個傾向可是這個 我想我們的這個感覺是非常的直接喔你們沒有感受到不是說沒有感受到 包括我們對於像這個美國國防部長 新任國防部長他在這個"},{"start":11309.594,"end":11335.749,"text":"就任之後第一趟的這個亞洲行第一次的海外訪問就是到亞洲到亞洲的時候拜訪了我們北邊跟南邊重要的這個安全的這個夥伴菲律賓跟日本那我想說展現出來的一個態勢是說美國依然堅定的維護它在這個地方對於有盟的這個安全承諾以及它對於台海的和平穩定的一個重視這是我們現在感受到的一個狀況好的 謝謝市長當然我們會在這個聲明"},{"start":11337.25,"end":11362.771,"text":"更重要的是說我們自己防衛自己的決心以及對國防持續的投資我想這個才是我們安全最重要的一個方案是的 本席在這邊一直提醒那戰略夥伴的一個網絡的支持是本席今天一直提醒的一個重點有 這個都有在進行好的 所以我們的外交支持不是只有口號沒有很重要的是要實質的航運、能源跟市場接替的方案所以我請外交部跟相關的部會一定要主動的去做一些處理"},{"start":11363.932,"end":11389.618,"text":"那我最後這邊不用問的啦但我還是提醒南非日前要求我們牽管的這個事件那代表我們在外交站這個部分有需要再強力的去做一些處理那第二個部分是我們知道緬甸的地震讓外交部如何很快的來掌握災情提供人道的協助那也考慮到在這也關係到我們的責任關係人的國際能見度所以提供給您參考"},{"start":11390.558,"end":11416.121,"text":"第三個部分是新加坡國安統籌的部長公開表示中美如果要避免衝突必須要先解決台灣的問題而且這樣的言論一直暫步到東協的相關國家那我們有沒有政策來準備面對區域國家對台灣議題國際化建區保守的趨勢這個是不是會後可以給本席一個回應"},{"start":11417.161,"end":11442.241,"text":"是 雖然說我們的感覺並不是這個樣子包括這個新加坡的好的 那如果那個外交部的感覺不是這樣是不是針對本席這邊所提到的問題然後在會後給本席相關的回應如果你們的感覺跟本席不一樣那最後我要提醒的是我們必須要在風險來臨之前確定制度的保障法律的框架跟利益的連結主動布局 快速應變"},{"start":11443.902,"end":11460.888,"text":"主席我最後可不可以做一個宣告這個跟你我都有很直接的關係因為他這個議題是很突然當然跟今天的委員會不是那麼的直接賓夕要為台東來發聲尤其是東海岸"},{"start":11461.468,"end":11486.815,"text":"那本席要表達一個立場要求立即阻止台東海岸離岸風電的開發我們不是反對再生能源但是我們堅決反對不顧地方意見未經共識然後就要插滿近60座大型風機的粗暴開發台東海岸是全台很美麗的最純淨的一段海岸如果被這些大型的機具風機來遮蔽我們還認得出來是台東嗎"},{"start":11490.896,"end":11516.163,"text":"所以根據目前業者的規劃風機可能設置在學校的附近它會破壞景觀最重要的是它關係到居民的健康與安全低頻的噪音電磁輻射對我們的孩子對長輩對大家對整個社區都是潛在的風險我們不能被模糊的數據跟空泛的保證來說服台東人有權決定自己家園的命運"},{"start":11518.257,"end":11523.895,"text":"好 謝謝李倩琪委員上台之心接下來由林楚英委員上台之心"},{"start":11534.18,"end":11549.014,"text":"謝謝主席因為時間有限我先請部會的首長一起上來外交部陳正次經濟部是江正次然後我們財政部的謝長次還有我們陸委會的沈副主委"},{"start":11551.598,"end":11570.775,"text":"好 先有請外交部市長 我就直接詢問其實現在還是有許多的媒體甚至於外界在造謠說美方是已讀不回所以說對台灣來講這個對可能還沒有排上所以我要很明確的詢問在這一波談判當中我們有信心是已經接上線"},{"start":11572.171,"end":11593.297,"text":"我們不是有信心,我們現在已經掛上號,而且這個是經過美國的白宮相關的人士證實所以說並不是空泛的我們去有個感覺而已這是確實的事情,我們已經排上號,我們就是在那個75國的名單裡面我們馬上要,我們ready,而且我們隨時要準備開始進行談判"},{"start":11594.517,"end":11616.815,"text":"那麼因為我們已經ready我們掛上號我們隨時都已經準備要好談判其實從川普昨天半夜的決定就可以看得出來他很明確的就是希望能夠在這場關稅風暴底下去紅色供應鏈甚至於呢就是要讓全球在這場貿易的關稅當中要做出決定跟選擇是不是"},{"start":11618.416,"end":11632.112,"text":"沒錯,我想這個非紅供應鏈是川普很重要的,從第一任開始,他的一個重要的政策。那台灣因為我們的政策選擇上面,我想我們現在來說是站在對的一方。"},{"start":11632.605,"end":11644.287,"text":"好我想這個對於所有的全國民眾來講可以先暫緩休息90天來看我們行政團隊的表現這相當重要的好謝謝鄭次喔我現在有請經濟部跟財政部我首先先問經濟部其實美中貿易戰在川普第一任的時候就已經展開了2018年就有美中貿易戰之後台灣為了因應我們曾經有修正法律也就是在2019年的時候我們修正了貿易法"},{"start":11658.55,"end":11684.82,"text":"那麼在這個法案的過程當中為什麼要做這樣的修正其實最重要的就是避免在美中貿易戰底下台灣變成息產地的中介是吧那麼整體來說我想要就問經濟部跟財政部因為我知道這個政策過去是關務署署長啦這個部分我想您一定非常的了解喔那麼在修法之後息產地的件數有沒有減少經濟部或財政部都可以"},{"start":11686.696,"end":11701.453,"text":"報告委員其實我們一直都在嚴加的管制進口監視的這個措施一直都沒有中斷而且呢我們也經常辦理相關的宣導會所以其實現在的廠商都非常的注意洗產地這個規定"},{"start":11704.276,"end":11718.864,"text":"這個樣的措施也是我們所不容許的好 所以我想問的重點就是那我們在這個裁處的案件是不是有逐漸減少當中而且外界或者是美國是不是在我們2019年修法之後至今到現在2025年"},{"start":11722.363,"end":11749.982,"text":"習產地的案件是有效減少嗎然後來自中國習產地的比例又是如何來 財政部是 跟委員報告其實我們查獲的件數有388件其中輸往美國的有133件我們倒是沒有去比較修法前跟修法後的變化但是事實上海關一直都在執行好 我知道海關相當的辛苦啦尤其在這個部分但是為什麼我會特別問這個是如果我們從2018年"},{"start":11752.043,"end":11777.049,"text":"看到美中貿易戰2019年修法到現在如果我們能夠透過修法有效的減少而且讓美方有看到我們是一個民主法治的國家我們有法規而且我們守法而且我們執法有成效我相信這個對於談判代表來講這就是一個很好的數據如果現在沒有我建議你們其實應該要讓數據透明出來有沒有道理"},{"start":11778.486,"end":11804.417,"text":"那麼就是因為擔心席產地喔但是我現在擔心啊是上有政策下有政策對策而且在藍白聯手底下的立法院不知道會通過什麼法案我們2019年把它杜絕起來之後我們看到2024年這個也是我跟財政部關務署所要的資料目前2024年對美國輸出的五大商品因為其實很多樣所以我大概做了五大類"},{"start":11805.037,"end":11808.247,"text":"就是USB極限器是排名第一有一兆"},{"start":11810.013,"end":11816.138,"text":"199億然後電腦主機是5112億電腦主機零件及附件第三名是2174億IC第四名是2153億網路設備是570億我想這個就是展現出台灣在對美之間貿易的部分但是我現在非常擔憂的是這些台灣可以製造中國也可以製造是吧"},{"start":11836.236,"end":11853.507,"text":"當中國面對現在川普所迎來的一百多超過破百的關稅的時候這些東西會不會透過台灣變成是一個席產地呢我想剛剛其實沈伯環委員也跟我注意到了同樣的問題那就是國民黨所提出的離島示範區"},{"start":11856.048,"end":11879.593,"text":"難道現在是要為中國習產地開後門嗎從第18條之一的第6項當中我來念給大家聽大陸地區人民法人團體機構資金物品商品老物及服務進出離島自由示範區是可以透過主管機關來做一個特別的擬定其中他的說明欄就講了"},{"start":11881.199,"end":11897.128,"text":"會給予適度相關規定的鬆綁所以我就請教陸委會這個是不是在我們2019年修法而且我們有效的杜絕所謂洗產地之後現在藍白聯手"},{"start":11898.735,"end":11917.654,"text":"要使中國的廠商、勞力、貨物能夠透過洗產地的方式透過所謂的禮保示範貿易區為中國開後門如果這樣的法規過了之後我們是不是就是選對的人走對的路選錯的人關稅超過一百"},{"start":11918.917,"end":11942.754,"text":"我想現在基本上陸委會的態度還是說關於離島建設條例的部分還是必須要在兩岸人民關係條例底下來去做進行了那委員所關心的有沒有可能反而變成是我們開了這個國安的後門確實我們也認為現在這個法律在當前社會沒有共識尤其是我們全力的在進行一個要脫離紅色供應鏈的這種國際的這種氛圍底下的話那麼也應該要用國安的這個層次來去做一個思考"},{"start":11943.234,"end":11968.373,"text":"所以如果說他涉及到國安的這個議題同時在國內也是有高度的疑慮更甚至於是我們現在看到美國總統川普也特別的關注希望全球的民主國家都能夠謹慎的來跟中國保持一個經貿的往來的一個距離的話那貿然的來去做一個開放確實有可能會在人流物流金流都有可能會開後門造成國安疑慮甚至會影響到台美關係的情況底下應該要更審慎的來做一個評估"},{"start":11968.933,"end":11987.221,"text":"好這是陸委會的立場嘛那我問一下經濟部因為如果是離島建設條例當然相關的話這也跟經濟有關如果扣一個經濟的帽子當然你說要讓離島能夠推進經濟能夠繁榮等等我們都同意不然不會我們看到這幾天全球股市"},{"start":11988.061,"end":12001.257,"text":"因為川普的一句話或是美國的一個決定就會像洗三溫暖一樣大起大落但是這個法案目前他就在立法院裡面如果經濟部被問到相關的離島"},{"start":12002.54,"end":12018.124,"text":"自由貿易示範區要讓大陸地區的人民法人團體機關資金物流勞力服務通通可以透過這個示範區做一定程度的適度鬆綁請問這個會給我們的現在面臨的貿易談判帶來什麼樣的衝擊跟危險"},{"start":12025.309,"end":12050.979,"text":"報告委員您剛所提到的也是政府的顧慮所以我認為我們應該要好好的處理所以這個條例現在我們也希望在立法院討論的時候必須要顧及到國際的趨勢的發展那剛才陸委會的長官也有表達說這個條例的內容已經涉及到整體的國家的安全所以這個部分一定要去非常的注重這一點"},{"start":12051.601,"end":12080.544,"text":"好最後我再請外交部正次因為現在這個法規它不是秘密它是你上網可以看得到對外你也知道所以美國也看到所以外交部的立場是什麼會不會現在我們說了我們前面本來有法規我們要杜絕席產地我要講喔USB極限器電腦主機電腦主機零件IC網路設備這些東西台灣可以製造中國在昨天"},{"start":12081.894,"end":12105.197,"text":"蔡局長也是國安局蔡局長所提出來的國安局報告當中就有特別提到了中國現在面臨的東西就是經濟下滑內需整個緊縮然後產能過剩他現在最需要的就是把東西直接的往外銷如果台灣現在這樣的一個所謂離島自由貿易市番區出來那是不是給美國錯誤的訊息"},{"start":12106.414,"end":12121.234,"text":"那麼這是我們所擔心的一個方向那麼美國對於這個洗產地的責任非常的重視那麼也這是他整個這個關稅全球佈局的一個用意之所在那麼他會跟美國的盡力的溝通那麼也希望"},{"start":12121.835,"end":12147.24,"text":"那麼剛才這個包括陸委會包括經濟部也表達立場我們也會跟美國來繼續的溝通基於這樣一個立場來繼續溝通然後我們一定會對於這個洗產地的這樣一個作為做全面的一個防範我們不會不希望留下任何的漏洞那麼也當然這方面也是大院能夠這個注意到這樣的一種風險我們會適度的把這個相關的訊息跟這個我們立院這邊來做溝通"},{"start":12148.4,"end":12165.999,"text":"所以從外交部經濟部財政部再到陸委會其實都有明確的立場我們也透過質詢台對外轉達只是很遺憾現在就是國民黨加民眾黨超過半數所以我也希望透過這個質詢台透過這個直播讓全球的國人可以看到到底選對的人走錯選對的人"},{"start":12168.484,"end":12187.237,"text":"就會走對的路選錯的人到底造成什麼樣的路我想大家都看得到那麼我也希望這個離島自由示範區條例這個案子最好藍白能夠自己把它先內部把它取消掉謝謝感謝謝謝林淑英委員上台質詢接下來由李坤澄上台質詢"},{"start":12199.221,"end":12210.397,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我們邀請經濟部的江政務次長還有行政院經貿談判辦公室的副總談判代表嚴副總代表"},{"start":12218.31,"end":12230.362,"text":"賴總統在這兩天有在彭博新聞社發表一篇文章台灣已有深化對美貿易關係的路徑圖希望透過對話努力排除台美的貿易障礙"},{"start":12232.463,"end":12256.197,"text":"將關稅劃減為零那不曉得兩位有沒有看過總統的這篇文章都有看過嘛那裡面有提到就是說希望把關稅這個劃減為零他說這個台灣目前的這個對美國的這個平均關稅是百分之六希望在這個互惠的基礎上面進一步降至零那藉由排除自由公平貿易的最後的障礙希望促進雙邊的這個擴大貿易與投資的規模"},{"start":12259.659,"end":12268.733,"text":"那總統這樣子講那是不是說我們本來有一個台美21世紀的貿易倡議那要直接跨一大步了就要到這一個FTA的自由貿易協定了"},{"start":12270.899,"end":12288.016,"text":"好謝謝委員那我想那個因為台美貿易倡議他基本上在解決的是法規的之間的連結的問題那我們現在透過因為法規連結他可能形成的障礙實際上也是川普政府現在對等關稅的衡量基礎所以我們會利用台美倡議所達成的這些共識來作為我們去化解我們對等關稅的稅率的這個的基礎"},{"start":12293.641,"end":12315.717,"text":"但是這是去年通過的第一階段那是還沒有關稅啊那現在有關稅了那要做的一定是不一樣嘛那我的意思是說總統竟然有這樣子講那是不是有什麼新的策略要出來因為他直接有講希望能夠關稅能夠化解到最後到零啊那是一大步耶那化解到零那所以我才問說那是不是就是要這個跟自由貿易協定是有相關的"},{"start":12316.82,"end":12325.805,"text":"我想自由貿易協定可以是有包含降關稅也可以包含只有純粹法規連結那現在因為賴總統所指示的就是希望從我們現在台美之間各自台灣輸美的這個有76%美國輸台有62%是零關稅我們就是以這個基礎往上去談看哪一些產品可以逐步去納入我們可以"},{"start":12338.671,"end":12356.179,"text":"調降關稅的一個範圍那目的就是還是要去降低我們的對等關稅現在適用的一些品項那所以我想如何從台美21世紀倡議跨越到是不是可以走向台美FTA我想這個是我們要努力的方向因為總統有這樣子說嘛那所以我是說"},{"start":12357.199,"end":12368.845,"text":"因為這個就是在川普宣布對等關稅之後雖然現在是從32%降成10%但是總統他有這個說法那是不是說我們在跟美國在談判的時候"},{"start":12369.921,"end":12396.038,"text":"有什麼樣新的 比如說新的措施或是說進一步的想要達成什麼樣的協議來讓總統他所提到的說希望能夠把關稅降到零那這也是能夠降低就是說這個美方認為說我們關稅好像課得太高 其實是沒有啦他是用這個貿易的逆差來做的那所以請教這個副總代表那如何落實總統所提到的說這個排除自由貿易的這個最後的障礙"},{"start":12398.218,"end":12405.261,"text":"我想排除貿易障礙呢基本上我們也要從美國現在的需求來討論那美國的需求他已經很明確說了要去跟他談對等關稅的下降不外乎要從三個目標第一個目標就是現在的關稅如果過高的我們要去評估如何下降第二個就是他們長期點名出來的在他們的"},{"start":12418.385,"end":12443.578,"text":"NTE就是他們的這個非關稅貿易障礙報告裡面長期關鍵的議題那我們要加以處理以及第三個即便你有前面的關稅跟非關稅措施但是他必須要能夠反映在降低貿易逆差上這三個目標都是缺一不可所以我想我們就是取得賴總統的授權從零關稅的基礎開始談但是必須要能夠達成美方所期待的三個目標"},{"start":12444.178,"end":12461.935,"text":"那所以也是這一次我們打算去跟美國談的最主要的這個三個目標嗎這是會是我們努力的方向好那我再問一下這一個江次長好了那現在就是說要消除這一個剛有提到這個對美的這一個非關稅的貿易障礙那這部分的話經濟部要做什麼樣的處理"},{"start":12463.035,"end":12490.382,"text":"在經濟部的部分的話大概非關稅貿易障礙目前美方比較關心的是我們的智慧財產權的落實的情形所以我們已經積極地在做相關的檢討就只有這部分而已嗎涉及經濟部的部分那財政部的部分咧據我們了解目前USTR提出來對財政部的項目是屬於明久的課稅的問題"},{"start":12492.35,"end":12501.772,"text":"這只有米酒客稅的問題嗎?沒有其他的問題嗎?當然我們違規轉運也是美方非常關切的部分那它不是還有點名一些產業嗎?這不是在經濟部,是在農業部嗎?我簡單補充一下,當然它還有提到的像跟這些我記得它有提到七項嘛"},{"start":12516.738,"end":12526.585,"text":"至少提到七項嘛對 還有提到服務業還有提到外人投資的限制然後當然還有提到農業的一些我們長期的這些關稅配合的議題那這邊要怎麼做處理勒"},{"start":12529.355,"end":12551.812,"text":"我想我們現在就是由這個鄭麗君副院長所領軍的這個團隊那台美經貿工作小組一直在盤點這些議題然後當然我覺得最重要的是我們會尋求是兼顧國人的健康糧食安全這些目的之下那當然有一些非關稅貿易障礙議題他可能會涉及到國內法是否要修法這個也需要我們取得朝野的共識"},{"start":12552.512,"end":12564.735,"text":"所以我想我們必須要綜合的去通盤的檢討才能夠確定台灣在非關稅議題上面可以跟美方提出怎麼樣的一個解決方式好那我們現在這個談判的代表團何時要去美國"},{"start":12566.463,"end":12586.991,"text":"我想我們現在就是持續的在溝通那要確認美方他現在希望我們因為他的談判團隊我們也要確認成績那才可以來決定我們台灣怎麼樣的一個談判的一個組成因為現在有90天的這一個緩衝時間嘛那所以說等美國那邊確定之後我方就會過去就對了對 我們現在持續的這個在規劃當中好 謝謝 謝謝三位 謝謝主席"},{"start":12594.041,"end":12622.192,"text":"謝謝李坤臣委員上台諮詢那接下來有葉言之委員上台諮詢請外交部次長各位您好"},{"start":12623.298,"end":12644.605,"text":"那個部長說我們已經跟白宮掛號成功了那請問一下這個掛號大概掛到幾號是會很快去談判還是會等很久因為我們現在只有90天的時間這樣來說好了就像是說其實在這個醫院裡面掛號我們是已經透過這個相關的管道我們已經預約好大概什麼時候可以開始談"},{"start":12645.585,"end":12664.691,"text":"這個還要看美方的一個進度還要看美方所以有可能會排很久以後因為90天我們一定比那個現在現場掛號的要快很多快很多大概是大概是怎麼樣時間我們約90天其實75號以內75號以內是那所以是多久你一號要看幾天啊不要跟我在那邊耍嘴皮子好不好這很嚴肅的議題耶"},{"start":12665.911,"end":12692.936,"text":"沒有那個這個看幾天90天之內對呀你75號你1號看兩天那100多天的啊不會不會所以你要對啦所以不要現在是第一個越快越好因為說實在你沒有給一個我們國內的廠商一個明確的答案他們現在無所適從啊他要不要增加資本投資他到底要怎麼因應所以當然要越快越快越好但是我覺得我們在談判因為我知道次長那個部長有講說您是副總談判"},{"start":12696.179,"end":12709.619,"text":"在談判上我們都知道要give and take可是現在川普的態度其實蠻高傲的我看到媒體報導他說現在各國的領導人都搶著拍他馬屁英文叫kiss my ass"},{"start":12710.779,"end":12732.002,"text":"他是這樣子講的然後說各國領導人找他都是說拜託啦來跟我做交易啦我什麼都願意意思是說他先把我們的關稅提高到32%然後呢好像只要在這32%以內他把它降下來對 那就是給你恩惠的可是實際上像現在的10%對我們的國家的產業也都是有影響的"},{"start":12733.163,"end":12747.841,"text":"所以我覺得在談判上面我覺得還是要堅持我們國家的利益第一件事情是當然美方非常重視我們一些貿易障礙非關稅的貿易障礙例如說食安在他們的報告裡面就有提到"},{"start":12748.513,"end":12771.434,"text":"他們對於我們進口的配額啊 像檢疫啊 或者是基因食品啊這些他們都覺得是非關稅的貿易障礙但這牽涉到我們國內的食安問題所以你在談判上有沒有可能說因為他說大家都搶著去拍他馬屁啦所以你給我放寬你的食安那我們就好好好 因為我們什麼都願意 所以我們就放寬在談判上會這樣嘛"},{"start":12773.373,"end":12793.079,"text":"我們在談判上面當然一定要顧及我們的國家的利益但是我們也跟委員報告我們這跟美國的這個在關稅上面的一個互動其實不妨把它看成是我們的整個產業的結構的一個調整那麼過去必然回答我的問題就好針對我的問題回答就好我是說你在談判的時候"},{"start":12794.079,"end":12820.366,"text":"我們要堅持台灣的利益譬如說台灣人重視的食安一定要堅持一定會把我們的這個包括的消費者的利益放在跟美方的談判裡面的重要的位置裡面再來就是譬如說賴總統投書媒體他說要以零關稅為基礎可是實際上很多經濟學者都指出其實我們的法定關稅不算高大概2%左右只有個別的產業的關稅比較高譬如說汽車或保健食品"},{"start":12820.686,"end":12848.411,"text":"所以零關稅對美國是沒有什麼吸引力關鍵還是要拿出其他的籌碼去跟他談判其中有一個我昨天看到郭智慧部長講我是嚇一跳因為白宮的經濟顧問召集人米倫是有提到五個方法說可以跟美國談判其中第五個是說直接捐錢給美國財政部你知道嗎那昨天郭智慧部長是講說這也沒有不可以"},{"start":12849.653,"end":12865.987,"text":"那有學者就提出來就講說沒事我們幹嘛捐錢給他又不是政災然後又不是說我們戰敗國然後沒事捐錢給美國的我不知道說那個副總談判代表您的看法是怎樣完全同意這個委員的這個提醒"},{"start":12866.647,"end":12884.706,"text":"那麼我們在談判上面當然堅持我方領養尋求雙方最大的利益交集那這是我們談判的一個策略那麼像對於美方這些東西不盡完全合理的地方也盡力的來溝通希望能夠達成雙方的這個共識那零關稅用零關稅方式談判你自己覺得有用嗎"},{"start":12885.106,"end":12910.162,"text":"我們是用零關稅為基礎但就好像剛才這個這個顏惠欣這個顏副總談判代表這邊來說的一樣喔包括非關稅壁壘非這個還有包括我們的這個相關的這個稅其實是第三個很重要的是有關於這個貿易赤字的這個部分那美方現在是用結果論的方式所以貿易赤字是我們要努力的一個方式那我再跟國務委員報告說"},{"start":12911.082,"end":12934.683,"text":"這個東西不用看成是一個對我方的利益的一個損失它可以看成是一個我們的整個經濟體質調整的一個契機我是覺得你不用粉絲太平啦這個對台灣的經濟絕對是影響很大啦不可否認那零關稅部分特別要提醒一下因為我剛剛講零關稅美方不見得會有吸引力啦但它有沒有可能談部分產業零關稅"},{"start":12936.601,"end":12946.045,"text":"你們說農業部分兩邊零關稅那其實對我們農業產業就不是啦那這對我們農業產業就會有影響嘛這個東西當然是說我們還要提升我們自己的產業經驗在整理"},{"start":12948.793,"end":12969.813,"text":"農業部那時候在那個學校推一個什麼斑斑喝鮮奶政策就是因應紐西蘭的牛奶鮮乳零關稅進來台灣為了保護弱農所以叫小朋友喝鮮奶但是因為那時候政策也沒有配套所以也無極而終這真的對於一下下無極而終其實你如果要因應農業零關稅後面政府要做的規劃跟配套非常多"},{"start":12970.313,"end":12995.755,"text":"沒錯所以我覺得那個談判方方面面啦不要像川普講的一樣好像大家都都是排隊等著要來拍他馬屁啦該怎樣怎樣我們該堅持的國人的利益還是要堅持住的在談判過程中一定會兼顧國人的利益以及尋求上方最大的利益交集感謝委員謝謝葉迎之委員上台質詢接下來由曾振權"},{"start":12996.876,"end":13014.973,"text":"委員上台諮詢鄭振淺委員鄭振淺委員那王宏威委員上台諮詢王宏威委員王宏威委員不在那蘇欽賢委員蘇欽賢委員蘇欽賢委員不在"},{"start":13020.08,"end":13046.552,"text":"那張家俊委員張家俊委員張家俊委員不在鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在那黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員翁曉琳委員不在那接下來就是林義軍委員"},{"start":13049.063,"end":13057.865,"text":"林一新委員已提出書面質詢已登記執行委員除不在場外已發言完畢報告及詢問結束"},{"start":13071.462,"end":13096.701,"text":"提出書面的質詢,請列入記錄並刊登公報。委員書面及口頭質詢,為其答覆部分或要求補充資料者,請相關機關以書面與兩周內答覆。委員另約定期限者,從期所定。本日會議到此結束。"},{"start":13110.828,"end":13110.888,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}