{"error":false,"id":["165834"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165834,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165834","日期":"2025-11-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-26T09:33:09+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-26T09:43:39+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:30","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f5b16bee5fdcc5c142851ce606566fd9ba7bab90aa47d99902ef04a352e939f45195ddf4f073bf875ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"09:33:09 - 09:43:39","會議時間":"2025-11-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、財政部及環境部就「蘇丹紅化學原料竄臺，政府如何強化進口把關及後市場查驗，以維護國人健康安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n邀請衛生福利部部長、司法院、法務部、勞動部及內政部警政署就「國內醫師、護理人力需求及分布暨防止醫療暴力措施及改善情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n\n(討論事項)\n審查\n一、委員柯志恩等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員林月琴等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員王育敏等16人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員顏寬恒等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員萬美玲等16人擬具「醫療法第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員顏寬恒等16人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員邱若華等17人擬具「醫療法第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員陳菁徽等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員魯明哲等18人擬具「醫療法第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員林淑芬等25人擬具「醫療法增訂第一百條之一條文草案」案。\n十二、委員盧縣一等16人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「醫療法第二十四條及第一百零六條條文修正草案」案。\n【第十四案，如經復議，則不予審查】【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.39721875,"end":7.185968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.02971875,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.30346875,"end":12.029093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.978468750000001,"end":38.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.28659375,"end":52.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.001593750000005,"end":73.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.35284375,"end":122.81346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.53971875,"end":96.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.94409375000001,"end":97.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.88471875,"end":99.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.50721875,"end":111.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.80659375,"end":113.26221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.72596875,"end":118.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.83471875000001,"end":129.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.00221875,"end":136.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.00159375,"end":134.91284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.90846875,"end":151.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.48034375,"end":149.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.12159375000002,"end":150.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.73721875,"end":156.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.80846875,"end":155.41596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.95596875,"end":174.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.19159375,"end":160.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.04596875000001,"end":197.94096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.08471875,"end":197.13096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.48096875000002,"end":213.12846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.95971875,"end":214.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.34784375,"end":218.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.41471875000002,"end":219.43971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.79846875,"end":230.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.46909375,"end":222.12284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.73784375000002,"end":230.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.03284375,"end":245.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.58846875,"end":240.14534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.14034375000003,"end":254.87721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.77284375000002,"end":248.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.30846875,"end":249.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.87284375000002,"end":257.08784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.94034375,"end":268.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.37346875000003,"end":266.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.87096875000003,"end":268.15784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.63034375,"end":269.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.68096875000003,"end":270.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.43596875000003,"end":271.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.55409375,"end":278.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.22409375,"end":292.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.28284375000004,"end":278.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.92346875000004,"end":283.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.13784375,"end":288.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.56721875,"end":310.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.34284375000004,"end":299.93346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.92471875,"end":302.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.32534375,"end":303.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.44659375000003,"end":317.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.00346875,"end":313.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.96909375,"end":315.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.19659375000003,"end":338.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.88846875,"end":318.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.14971875000003,"e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有請石部長請石部長"},{"start":11.545,"end":30.295,"text":"陳委員長部長 今年來有很多新聞媒體他會用這個字眼醫療崩壞這個字眼去做報導那也有很多新聞媒體他會用這個當專題來探討這個問題在什麼地方部長你醫生院很用心端出了很多的政策那希望能夠改善包括這個UCC事辦計畫"},{"start":32.136,"end":51.369,"text":"但是部長我必須老實跟您說因為很多一線的醫護人員他們認為這樣還是治標不是本那因為急診擁塞本來就是因為因為大部分急診在一樓就是樓上的病房開不出來那開不出來最主要的原因就是護理人員沒夠 護理人不夠所以沒有辦法開出病房"},{"start":53.05,"end":72.709,"text":"我想我從上任以來大概這幾個會期我都一直關心三班互併筆的這個立法進度為什麼因為賴總統也承諾在2023年競選的時候他就說明白的表示他支持這個三班互併筆入法那我想請教部長現在有沒有進度那進度到有沒有具體的入法的時程"},{"start":73.95,"end":98.159,"text":"跟委員說明當然要解決急診擁塞的問題是多方策略從前面的分流到急診的處理的精確化到後面的收治跟病房的運轉所以我們不只是只有UCC還有包含門診的靜脈抗生素的注射居家住院這些模式我們都在發展"},{"start":99.079,"end":116.804,"text":"至於這個三班戶病比 確實我們需要不斷的去改善這個護理的負荷不要讓那個負荷太高 那才能夠留住這個護理人員所以我們在三班戶病比上呢 也做了很多的獎勵的措施那我們看起來 好像他那個達標率也在提升當中啦"},{"start":121.826,"end":149.64,"text":"部長最重要是賴總統他有承諾說兩年內要完成這個入法現在已經到2025年你快年底了所以你要不要有沒有做這個方面的努力修法的努力呢還是你都在旁邊做其他的配套我們一直在監測這個實施的情形就像我剛剛提到的在113年我們大概以醫學中心來講達標率才36%那到今年就到64%所以如果我們一直往上"},{"start":152.309,"end":177.821,"text":"在做這個入法之前的所有的這個輔導措施這樣衛福部去年他有主動公佈這個三白病比的人力缺口那當時薛部長說按照這個標準護理缺口是7582名那請問部長你現在你認為這個缺口有多少名那有多少醫院沒有達標大概就數字就好了 謝謝好 跟委員說明我們在這個疫情之前"},{"start":178.641,"end":197.675,"text":"大概我們的每年新增的護理人力大概一年增加5000人左右然後離職率就是那個流動率大概在差不多10到11%之間那我們到了這個今年來看我們已經慢慢回流到4900位的增加量所以跟疫情前慢慢"},{"start":198.576,"end":216.77,"text":"前幾年有時候一年增加不到1000位幾百個而已那現在已經慢慢回來到今年是增加到4900位了到目前為止所以看起來是有慢慢在回流那離職率也從一起當中最高的時候13%現在降到11.5%"},{"start":219.412,"end":245.549,"text":"但是問題出現在醫院的問題跟委員說明確實您的觀察也是對的雖然我們護理人力在回流的感覺但是過去新增的護理人力大概七八成會留在醫院現在大概差不多一半而已所以如何讓新增的護理人力能夠流向醫院這個是我們要努力的方向"},{"start":246.55,"end":254.625,"text":"这个方向都是对的但是我还在问你很实务的问题到目前为止发了多少三百互聘笔的奖励金你知道吗"},{"start":256.559,"end":268.946,"text":"今年我們一年是編了40億左右的這個夜班津貼那另外有28億左右是26億左右用在三班戶併筆的獎勵那今年到11月的三班戶併筆已經發出了10.95億 將近11億了"},{"start":277.91,"end":290.858,"text":"副部長我的意思是說因為你們這個發獎金都是根據醫院填報的數字但是重點因為現在有這個護理師他們都會反映醫院填報數字怎麼是你確定是正確的嗎會不會造假"},{"start":294.602,"end":309.469,"text":"就是這是第一點就是說理發因為你他說多少你就承認多少那但是基層人還是會跟我們這個民意代表陳情那因為他們還甚至陳情說有些醫院把獎勵金拿去修天花板買便當那部長這樣不行"},{"start":311.089,"end":338.608,"text":"不行 這個都是要專款專用改善在護理人力的身上您就是要公開對這個基層護理師有一個回覆嘛那還有一種他為了形式達標啦形式上達標就是說他們會做很多跨科資源你也知道跨科資源的一些問題他的工作量是大壓力更大病安也會出問題啦所以那個請問照護師你有掌握這個狀況嗎護理人員的狀況你應該最清楚啊那怎麼都跑來跟民意代表這個陳情呢"},{"start":339.651,"end":353.37,"text":"跟委員說明我們其實有一個那個平台啦就是那個護理職場正義通報平台是可以直接通報那通報的情形只要我們有收到就會去調查所以這個"},{"start":355.271,"end":383.18,"text":"也請委員把個案給我們就會去處理有幾件事情我希望您參考一下第一個就是說三胞護病比100%用在增加護理人力跟護理的失之失之的薪資您同意嗎就基本上放在這個地方人力跟這個失之對就是用在增加護理人力那就不可以用不相關的部分第二個那未達標的醫院其實很辛苦因為未達標表示那些護理人更辛苦啊那有些醫院他就不領這個獎勵金那表示說他永遠沒有辦法去改善你覺得要罰則嗎"},{"start":384.847,"end":406.345,"text":"不領獎勵金的表示沒達標那你要不要管他們對 我們要看他的這個整個原因所以希望部長你要去了解他們為什麼就根本放棄這個獎勵金那表示他的護理師會更辛苦那這個問題會更大因為他們有打算要改善像之前這個劉委員一關心說我們的部立醫院"},{"start":407.866,"end":429.957,"text":"護病品沒有達標沒有領獎一金那我們就立刻作業那現在通通都已經達到了請你也繼續注意嘛第三個就是說有一些地方因為他們反映壓力大風險大喜勝市 開刀坊 新刀館到目前為止沒有任何標準沒有任何指引沒有任何公告喔那有沒有打算就是說都不知道嘛護病品要多少不知道那工會 鋼會每次詢問就問這個有沒有要修醫療機構設置辦法"},{"start":435.68,"end":465.32,"text":"那照護師就說尊重醫事師那醫事師說就在研議沒有人負責那請問這個部分有要處理嗎就是醫院的醫療這個機構設置辦法你有想要改變嗎如果是設置標準的部分其實在特殊病房的部分因為樣態很多所以有一些是有設定那個人力標準有一些當然就沒有像新導管室這個沒有設定人力那像ICU這個加護病房的這個特殊病房"},{"start":466.02,"end":478.213,"text":"他是有能力標準像RCW這個都有能力標準至於說這個能力標準要不要涉到這個護病比的問題那這個我們要再討論一下我今天還有一個問題很重要的問題像您這個反應非常沉重問題非常急迫的個案我們說到因為媽媽的陳情她的孩子只有11個月大"},{"start":485.6,"end":506.936,"text":"他罹患了SYNJ1有一種就是異基因相關疾病這是非常罕見在全球的文獻報告在各位數字那在這個叫做神經退化型癲癇腦病變這個孩子卻需要要一個叫做RevotrilRevotril你知道嗎他要Drop DG那這個是管制藥台灣是管制藥那台灣沒有嘛那你又不能叫他拿定劑讓這個嬰兒吞服"},{"start":509.718,"end":526.108,"text":"因為是管制藥 所以他依法申請他申請了個人自用藥品進口同意食藥署核准了但是這個藥為什麼進不來嗎到現在還沒有辦法到這個材質手上因為這個藥在其他國家也是管制藥那你不能拿台灣的醫師處方間去買到這個藥即便食藥署已經核准了而且離這個台灣最近的國家有這個藥品的是紐西蘭"},{"start":534.873,"end":553.018,"text":"等於說他希望這個孩子要親自去就醫因為他那個國家也是管制藥所以現在就是說問題說孩子不是沒有藥但是永遠到不了他的手上部長我現在想請教衛福部可不可以主動協調醫事司不是有一個兒童困難取得是臨床必要要免金醫材調度中心嗎"},{"start":553.678,"end":578.626,"text":"可不可以協助或是說用其他的專案來進口我一邊說明因為只要官方願意幫忙這個孩子是有機會有機會拿到這個藥的他們不是要特權他只是希望這個孩子有機會活下去所以我希望今天部長可以給我一個答覆這件事這個病童院務部願不願意主動來幫忙處理呢我們要把所有的孩子都照顧好我們的使命就是這樣"},{"start":579.426,"end":595.259,"text":"那因為我們有一個像委員說當時候我們就設立了一個法就是法 我知道那法不外乎人情嘛那應該是可以專案進口我聽起來好像是已經核准專案進口但是我們去了解一下看那個關卡卡在哪裡是那邊出不來還是什麼所以現在政府要想辦法看有沒有一個特殊方法"},{"start":603.086,"end":628.905,"text":"他怎麼不能帶著11歲小孩到紐西蘭去了解了解這個我們來我今天特別得到你的一個承諾你願意幫助這個孩子嗎沒有問題這是我們的責任他也許也在看你今天我們之間的討論喔好那就麻煩部長我們最快的速度處理好那謝謝部長謝謝主席等一下我的助理就跟你聯繫一下讓這個媽媽可以得到幫忙沒問題沒問題謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}