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農業部杜長志行政院主計總處陳主計長及相關人員予以說明"},{"start":1884.648,"end":1905.765,"text":"及答覆決定一報告說明及詢答完畢二委員詢答未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關單位一周內以書面答覆委員令要求期限者從期鎖定三委員員寬恆王世堅徐欣盈林楚英陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關部會以書面答覆"},{"start":1907.57,"end":1934.22,"text":"討論事項1審查納稅者權力保護法4案1委員賴世保等22人擬軍納稅者權力保護法部分條文修正草案案2委員國庭委等18人擬軍納稅者權力保護法第4條條文修正草案案3委員林思明等20人擬軍納稅者權力保護法第7條及第21條條文修正草案案4委員林思明等18人擬軍納稅者權力保護法第21條條文修正草案案"},{"start":1935.22,"end":1949.449,"text":"決議一 審查結果一 第四條 趙委員 羅廷瑋等18人提案通過二 第六條 趙委員賴世保等22人提案通過三 第七條及第21條均維持現行條文四 第20條 趙委員賴世保等22人提案修正通過"},{"start":1951.377,"end":1967.037,"text":"第三項修正為前項納稅者權利保護官得由外部專家學者擔任第四項不予增訂第五及六項一列第四及五項第七項一列為第六項並修正為財政部每年應就催捐基深機關辦理納稅者權利保護業務"},{"start":1970.161,"end":1990.618,"text":"機效及考核結果提出報告並送立法院備查5.增訂第21條之一不予增訂2.全案審查完畢案已據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論權不需交由黨團學商院會討論時由賴昭及委員事保補充說明2.審查加值型及非加值型營業稅法法案"},{"start":1991.94,"end":2011.622,"text":"一委員鍾嘉斌等十八人委員鍾嘉斌等二十三人委員郭國文等十七人分別擬據加執行及非加執行營業稅法部分條件修正草案案等三案二委員陳昌明等十八人委員邱志偉等十六人分別擬據加執行及非加執行營業稅法第八條條件修正草案"},{"start":2012.122,"end":2027.843,"text":"等二案三委員賴世保等二十五人委員應寬恆等十六人分別擬據加值刑及非加值刑營業稅法第十三條條文修正草案等二案四委員賴世保等二十二人擬據加值刑及非加值刑營業稅法第五十八條條文修正草案案"},{"start":2028.844,"end":2049.686,"text":"決議一 審查結果 第六條 之一 第三十二條 之一 第四十八條 之二及第五十條均維持現行條文二 第十條 第十三條 第二十三條 之二十六條 第二十八條 第三十二條 第四十條均保留送院會處理三 五十八條 趙委員賴世寶等二十二人提案通過並修正立法說明"},{"start":2051.204,"end":2071.448,"text":"2.委員中嘉賓等18人 委員中嘉賓等23人分別履具加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案等二案委員賴世保等25人 委員寬恒等16人分別履具加值型及非加值型營業稅法第13條條文修正草案等二案審查完均併案履具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論權需交由黨團協商院會討論時由賴昭及委員"},{"start":2075.969,"end":2095.464,"text":"事保補充說明三委員賴事保等二十二人履具加值刑及非加值刑業稅法第五十八條條文修正草案案審查完據履具審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前不需交由黨團宣判院會討論時由賴召集人事保補充說明四委員郭國文等十七人履具加值刑及非加值刑業稅法部分條文修正草案"},{"start":2096.605,"end":2113.654,"text":"及委員陳超明等18人 委員邱志偉等16人分別履具加值刑及非加值刑一頁稅法第8條條文修正草案等二案令折期繼續審查通過臨時提案六案宣讀完畢好 謝謝請問各位委員對於上一次的議事錄有沒有意義"},{"start":2114.926,"end":2143.588,"text":"好沒有依依那議事錄確定請議事人員先讀今日的議程邀請財政部長莊翠雲經濟部農業部及公平交易委員會就防範中國大陸產品低價傾銷及透過台灣息產地問題之因應策略進行專題報告並被質詢宣讀完畢好我們現在先介紹那個到場的那個委員我們首先先介紹林德虎委員"},{"start":2148.094,"end":2166.267,"text":"吳秉瑞委員謝謝那接著依序介紹議會的官員首先我們先介紹財政部莊翠銀部長官務署彭英偉署長國庫署陳柏成署長戶稅署宋署長國有財產署曾署長"},{"start":2177.429,"end":2197.942,"text":"財政資訊中心主任 張主任經濟部政務次長 江次長國際貿易署副署長 胡副署長國有產業發展署副署長 陳副署長商業發展署 劉副署長"},{"start":2205.047,"end":2222.974,"text":"標準局賴副局長 農業部杜文貞常務次長國際事務司副司長洪曉軍 訓務司周科長農糧署副署長黃副署長 漁業署陳副署長"},{"start":2228.171,"end":2238.771,"text":"水產試驗所淡水養殖研究中心研究員 楊研究員公平交易委員會主任秘書 毛主任秘書"},{"start":2244.383,"end":2273.337,"text":"那今日議程的安排我們邀請財政部莊部長經濟部農業部及公平交易委員會就緩緩中國大陸產品低價請銷及透過台灣息產地的問題的因應策略那進行專題報告那首先我們先請財政部莊部長進行專題報告那依次是經濟部然後再來是農業部那請三位那個精簡的報告那請財政部部長先"},{"start":2273.797,"end":2275.258,"text":"主席各位委員先進大家好今日貴委員會邀請相關部會就防範中國大陸產品低價傾銷以及透過臺灣息產地問題的因應策略進行專題報告緊就涉及本部業務部分做簡要的報告進行指教"},{"start":2299.232,"end":2305.417,"text":"首先是執行反傾銷措施維護台灣商民權益這個部分我國反傾銷調查的申請以及審查"},{"start":2307.742,"end":2328.235,"text":"都是根據WTO反請銷協定規定辦理那麼請銷調查案件呢經過國內的相關業者或工會提出申請以後那必須提交本部的關稅稅域審議小組來做審議經過決議進行調查的話那麼就會由本部和經濟部分別就是否構成請銷以及國內產業"},{"start":2331.177,"end":2345.429,"text":"產業是否因此遭受的損害來進行調查那麼我國現行採取反傾銷措施的產品總共有十件其中八件是中國大陸的產品包括當獨對中國大陸產製進口的毛巾等課徵反傾銷稅那對於中國大陸以及韓國產製進口的不鏽鋼冷壓鋼瓶等"},{"start":2352.955,"end":2368.363,"text":"課徵反請銷稅另外本部在今年的3月11日公告對中國大陸產製進口的啤酒還有特定的熱壓扁壓鋼品進行反請銷的調查那等到完成初步調查以後呢提交我們關稅稅率審議小組審議做成有沒有有無請銷初步認定後並且決定是否臨時課徵反請銷稅"},{"start":2377.208,"end":2388.158,"text":"那中上國內業者對於中國大陸產品提出反傾銷調查的申請那麼就可以獲得相關的救濟保障來維護我國公平競爭的經商環境那麼確保產業次序的穩定第二個就落實反堵違規轉運保障台灣經貿安全的部分為了防堵中國大陸出口貨品"},{"start":2399.62,"end":2421.858,"text":"規避美國所加徵的百分之一百四十五關稅而會落經我國偉茂台灣製造後違規轉運息產地到美國那麼本部採取了事先預防事中嚴查以及事後研發三道防線來應應並且以這個為基礎我們更進一步的規劃精進的作為說明如下首先三道防線防堵違規轉運的部分事先的預防"},{"start":2425.18,"end":2439.093,"text":"包括了配合經濟部公告要求廠商在出口的時候必須要檢附輸出許可證或原產地證明那麼海關才能夠通關放行第二個我們和經濟部合作對於經過篩選屬於高風險貨物以及高風險廠商我們在核發原產地證明之前必須要嚴加的審核"},{"start":2448.542,"end":2465.511,"text":"第三個針對廠商出口美國的貨物海關的系統會主動提示業者要注意出口貨物的原產地訊息並且輔導出口廠商要強化法尊的意識那麼第二個就是在市中檢查的部分"},{"start":2465.871,"end":2470.654,"text":"我們針對出口美國貨物篩選可疑的目標海關查驗貨物的時候要嚴查產地確認是不是有違規轉運的情勢第二個我們針對高風險業者海關在保稅艙間要加強查核貨品的標籤以及產地的標示"},{"start":2484.344,"end":2492.687,"text":"在事後的研發部分我們會議請主管機關研發違規的廠商那麼海關茶貨廠商沒有依規定標示產地或標示不實的話就會移送貿易署依照貿易法的規定最高可處罰新台幣300萬元的罰還或禁止一年的輸出貨品如果屬於自由貿易港區茶貨的違規廠商那麼就會用自貿港區的設置管理條例的規定來做懲罰"},{"start":2513.396,"end":2542.616,"text":"第四個我們會要加強國際間的合作來協助境內的查核接下來為各位報告有關四項的經濟措施第一個我們海關的各官會成立強化違規轉運的查核小組我們強力查核包含在密度強度部分都會加強第二個我們會精進風險的分析資料庫來精準打擊可疑的對象第三個我們會擴大宣導商民遵守相關的規定避免觸法"},{"start":2543.556,"end":2569.49,"text":"第四個我們會鼓勵檢舉不法那麼全民協力打擊不肖的廠商本部和經濟部將會持續密切的合作執行反傾銷的措施保障本土的產業權益並且在三道防線基礎上持續的精進各項行政的作為來強化防堵的力道維護台灣的利益以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝好 謝謝接著請經濟部那個江次長進行專題報告"},{"start":2578.297,"end":2605.919,"text":"主席 各位委員 大家好承蒙各位委員會邀請就繁放中國產品傾銷及透過台灣洗產地問題的因應策略進行報告經濟部將與財政部密切合作以避免中國產品透過台灣洗產地或傾銷台灣危害國內的產業發展損害我國商譽以下僅就經濟部的業務相關部分提出報告敬請各位委員指教"},{"start":2606.96,"end":2626.883,"text":"首先在美國對各國科徵對等關稅部分美國川普總統在今年的1月20重返白宮後延續美國優先的路線推出許多關稅措施希望能縮減貿易逆差及促使製造業回流美國目前在對等關稅方面美國在4月5號"},{"start":2628.004,"end":2645.637,"text":"美國已宣布從4月5日起對所有國家加徵10%的關稅另外對57個貿易順差比較高的國家加徵11%到15%不等的稅率隨後由於中國採取了反制措施美國在4月9日宣布將對其"},{"start":2647.432,"end":2651.196,"text":"將其對等關稅稅率累加到145%其餘國家在未來90天內暫停原宣布的對等關稅稅率維持加徵10%的基礎稅率"},{"start":2663.376,"end":2688.302,"text":"由於美國對57個國家科徵對等關稅造成各國關稅稅率差距高關稅稅率的國家產品可能會流向低稅率的國家以更換產地標示、重新包裝或簡單加工的方式轉運美國被美國科徵高關稅的國家的貨品一旦透過我國轉運至美國規避高關稅以及這些國家產製產品低價傾銷我國"},{"start":2690.502,"end":2718.907,"text":"都将危害我国产业发展 影响我国国际信誉而且可能使我国成为美方关注的对象为了防度违规转运经济部将采取多项具体的作为包括全面监视进出口监督高风险厂商重研财阀违规厂商配合财政部加速调查反倾销案件加强对业者宣导等以健全贸易秩序维护产业利益"},{"start":2720.171,"end":2746.321,"text":"在監測貿易量跟高風險廠商的方面為了避免高稅率國家貨品流入我國經濟部已經建立了監測系統追蹤貨品量的變化在發生重大違規轉運的情形之前能夠防範未然此外經濟部將透過自美國科徵高關稅國家進口的產品跟出口美國的產品全面勾結比對進口量跟出口量之間的關聯性"},{"start":2747.641,"end":2765.593,"text":"以及特定貨品或廠商是否有異常進出口的情形依據前述監測方法及了解異常貨品的產業特性下進一步會去仿視個案廠商掌握其進口來源及出口流向後建立高風險廠商的名單並且海關加強查驗防度違規產品出口"},{"start":2772.492,"end":2785.776,"text":"違規轉運不僅會嚴重損害我國信譽進口國也可能對我國發動貿易救濟調查及採取救濟措施或者科徵高關稅影響我國產業的發展因此經濟部將對違規的行為加強裁罰根據貿易法第17條第28條的規定出口貨品如果有產地標示不實得署以警告6萬至300萬元罰款或停止輸出入貨品"},{"start":2800.141,"end":2825.653,"text":"情节重大者得废止出进口厂商的资格如果进口货品没有在台湾进行实质转型而经转换包装或进行简单加工程序后就标示台湾产制并出口到美国的厂商本部将会视违规的情形加严处分每一张报单最高可以罚新台币300万元严重者取消厂商的资格"},{"start":2826.758,"end":2842.146,"text":"此外我們也會配合財政部加速調查反傾銷案件我們已經為了因應中國因為產能過剩的原因低價傾銷我國我們已對中國的貨品按月進行進口量"},{"start":2842.846,"end":2848.29,"text":"還有價格的監測並提出監測的報告經濟部跟產業工協會向來均保持密切的聯繫對於這些監測的結果如果發現異常也會進一步洽詢相關工協會跟業者了解原因如有啟動反傾銷調查的必要會透過專案計劃請全國工業總會幫助業者申請"},{"start":2863.799,"end":2884.487,"text":"調查案財政部及經濟部對於這些申請案都會依法分別盡速完成反傾銷完成傾銷及產業損害調查的認定並採取措施保護國內產業同時為了避免廠商因為對原產地認定等相關進出或規定不熟悉而違規經濟部將加強辦理貿易管理的宣導會"},{"start":2888.268,"end":2917.419,"text":"第一场宣导会已经在昨天4月15日举行总计有超过600人出席主要参与的业别为机械、电子、金属、纺织及化学业等本年规划跟相关的产业工协会办理至少要18场的宣导会提醒厂商不违规转运经济部希望厂商跟政府能够密切的合作不要铤而走险反而被美国科技高关税维护业者自身的"},{"start":2917.799,"end":2943.424,"text":"以及我國的信譽如此才能在全球供應鏈重整過程中得到各國的信任為了維護台灣產品在全世界市場的聲譽防止台灣成為習產地的破口經濟部將與財政部密切合作打擊習產地的不法行為保障我國的商譽確保我國經濟永續發展以上報告敬請指教也祝各位身體健康萬事如意謝謝"},{"start":2945.307,"end":2972.673,"text":"我們接著請農業部杜次長進行專題報告主席各位委員各位女士先生大院貴委員會全體委員今日邀請本部列席防範中國大陸產品低價請消及透過臺灣息產地問題之因應策略會議請就農業部業管部分提出以下報告敬請各位委員給予指教"},{"start":2974.559,"end":3001.448,"text":"維護農民權益針對國內有產製的多數的敏感農產品我國已管制該農產品不得自中國大陸進口以避免對國產的造成一些衝擊令為防渡農產品走私夾帶或是第三國轉印的邊境管制及查查農業部配合查緝單位進行聯合查緝配合鑑定及處理農產品的銷毀工作共同防範非法走私的行為"},{"start":3002.728,"end":3021.485,"text":"二為協助海關查緝與判定原產地作業農業部已成立農產品協助鑑定小組針對海關或相關政府單位移送至鑑定貨樣藉由品種外觀顏色形狀等特徵觀察或以微量元素穩定同位數進行分析與相關資料庫進行比對協助海關做原產地的鑑別"},{"start":3022.906,"end":3035.952,"text":"為強犯中國大陸農產品自第三國轉運來台農業部持續採取下列三個大措施一加強聯繫與勤資收集協助查緝與鑑定強化跨部位的橫向聯繫積極對於進口與市售的農產品進行聯合積查與查"},{"start":3041.434,"end":3064.002,"text":"查處協助鑒定所移送的農產品之銷並銷毀協助銷毀走私的農產品追溯犯罪源頭增加查緝的效能針對重要農產品農業部防範措施例舉如下一大蒜跟香菇為了有效防範中國大陸香菇及大蒜經由周邊國家轉運至台灣財政部關務署依據海關認定進口貨品原產地作業要點"},{"start":3064.842,"end":3091.432,"text":"規定需逐批茶葉尤其韓送致農業部雜糧蔬菜特作協助鑑定小組進行原產地鑑定二茶葉我國禁止中國大陸茶葉進口至其他國家輸入者需要提供原產地證明將加強對進口國家的查核此外為強化國產茶溯源管理本部已經公告指定國產茶為應登錄溯源資訊之農產品及其應遵行事項"},{"start":3092.392,"end":3101.423,"text":"自112年1月1日起產地標示為台灣的也就是我們的國產茶葉經營者應於流通販賣前把溯源資訊及標示方式"},{"start":3102.401,"end":3120.974,"text":"一規定辦理及包裝應該張貼農糧產品追溯條碼或產銷履歷或有驗證標章三牡蠣本部與衛福部分別就生產端及市售端辦理溯源標章及散裝攤商的輔導那也就相關的法規進行修訂並視產業狀況滾動調整"},{"start":3123.596,"end":3148.029,"text":"為了強化我國牡蠣的溯源管理持續推動牡蠣養殖業者申請溯源截至2014年3月底溯源戶達1270戶涵蓋率達64%應為防範進口牡蠣混充牡蠣販售行政院食安辦結合高檢署本部衛福部內政部保期總隊等進行試售牡蠣的專案查緝2.持續經濟與開發農產品的產地鑑別技術"},{"start":3151.151,"end":3171.617,"text":"為提升產地鑑別的準確度本部農產品協助鑑定小組持續開發精進各項農產品的產地鑑定技術並收集各國產地樣品與相關資料盡力完整資料庫以提供海關查緝機關作為判別產地資參考三 強化產地標示為避免業者魚目混珠以進口農產品冒充國產"},{"start":3172.677,"end":3188.074,"text":"品德這個不良標示行為本部會持續強化農產品的溯源管理例如指定國產茶葉為應登錄溯源資訊之農產品及其應遵行事項配合衛育服務推動強制標示市售散裝農畜禽產品等原產帝國資訊"},{"start":3189.375,"end":3195.963,"text":"辦理牡蠣的溯源標示及散裝攤方的輔導與修法是以持續輔導養殖業者依農產品生產及驗證管理辦法納入產銷履歷及隨產品溯源系統的管理以持續推動產銷履歷等標章區隔進口與國產農漁畜產品"},{"start":3207.717,"end":3232.925,"text":"結論我國針對多項國內重要農產品已禁止自中國大陸進口且設有進口原產地查驗加強溯源管理等管制措施本部將持續觀察各項農產品的進口情形適時與經濟部財政部衛福部及各縣市加強進口與市售農產品的產地查查此外財政部持持續與市前預防市中研查事後研發三道防線的違規"},{"start":3234.985,"end":3257.754,"text":"防止違規轉運本部將積極協助海關與食安單位查緝流通農產品不法情勢保障農民的收益以上報告敬請指教 謝謝好 謝謝那現在我們開始詢答先做以下的宣告每一位出席的委員花言的時間是8分鐘必要的時候延長2分鐘每一位列席的委員花言的時間是5分鐘"},{"start":3259.635,"end":3268.917,"text":"今天早上10點我們截止登記花園那現在一登記的順序請登記第一位的林德虎委員質詢謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請財政部莊部長請莊部長"},{"start":3292.833,"end":3314.272,"text":"委員好部長你好部長我請教因為去年稅收3.7兆超徵5283億主要的貢獻來自證交稅中所稅還有營業稅以及營所稅其中又以證交稅全年的整個成長907億元年增率達到46%"},{"start":3319.677,"end":3324.98,"text":"居首工那禮拜一財政部公布第一季的稅收5540億元比去年同期減少了36億元"},{"start":3332.83,"end":3359.722,"text":"那其中光是證交稅單月10增219億元219億元年減就是72億元成也是證交稅敗也是證交稅那如果以川普關稅的整個觀點分析請問部長你認為第二季過後甚至於今年全年的證交稅有機會維持去年的水準嗎"},{"start":3361.823,"end":3366.079,"text":"跟委員報告確實如委員所說的我們今年到3月為止的"},{"start":3366.613,"end":3394.951,"text":"持增数是比去年少了36亿这是里面关注证交税就少了52亿那也就跟委员说其实因为股票市场和这个国际的政经情势有相当高的联动而且跟美国的股市更有相当联动所以它的成交量其实也有相当幅度的一个变化所以说你认为大有大到五六千亿小有小到只有两千多亿所以这部分因为有很多不确定的因素在里面所以会影响到"},{"start":3395.511,"end":3405.076,"text":"股市的一個動能那這個部分我們會持續的觀察那依您判斷今年會不會難逃這個衰退的命運依目前這樣看當然因為相關的關稅政策的不確定會影響到國際貿易的成長的動能"},{"start":3412.113,"end":3438.803,"text":"那這個部分大家也都各個國家也都非常的關注好我想這個部分但是一到三月份其實我們的出口出口其實是成長的是比去年成長那當然有含在因為關稅的因素而大家都在拉貨所以我們出口是做成長的那另外也要跟委員報告就是說因為有關美國這個關稅的衝擊所以我們在五月份的所得稅申報的部分期間也把它延長"},{"start":3439.916,"end":3461.936,"text":"到6月底同時對有受到衝擊的不管是個人也好營利事業也好可以申請延期或者是分三年繳納那這個部分跟稅收都會有相關的一些聯動的影響部長3月下旬央行公佈整個經濟預測下修今年的整個經濟成長率達到就是只有到3.05%啦最近"},{"start":3464.618,"end":3479.868,"text":"大摩外資券商還預測川普的關稅政策會讓以出口為導向的我們整個台灣的經濟今年的GDP成長整個預估下修到2.2%那我請問部長你認為這個可能性是做壞的狀況嗎"},{"start":3487.489,"end":3510.49,"text":"我想對於這個關稅的影響行政院還有我們的經貿工作的談判小組都在努力希望能夠在爭取國家的最大利益以及維護我們廠商產業的國際競爭力都在做努力那我也希望這個能夠爭取到最好以後對我們的產業以及衝擊市場的大家最想打拚這個大家都知道了那個部長"},{"start":3511.711,"end":3532.581,"text":"為因應大陸產品低價傾銷及透過台灣席產地財政部採事前預防事中嚴查以及事後這個研劃整個三道的黃線那我請問部長目前哪些大陸產品是事前預防的重點項目因您看"},{"start":3534.07,"end":3537.313,"text":"目前來說對於大陸在對美國他有課徵反請銷稅的以及屬於301條款裡面他課徵高關稅的部分是我們列為最高風險的部分那未來由於這個美國對於中國大陸課徵145%的高關稅"},{"start":3550.706,"end":3564.253,"text":"那個差距這麼大會可能連其他貨品都會有可能會做違規轉運到台灣來所以這個部分我們除了在三道防線之外我們會再做一個精進的措施讓台灣不能成為洗產地的一個地方那我請教部長換句話說現階段的是有哪些高風險的貨物篩選高風險廠商有沒有出現盲區啊有沒有"},{"start":3581.059,"end":3607.654,"text":"這個部分也就是我們持續的一直在進行在這個部分您講的盲區的部分也就是我們要再進一步的來做那個部長現階段哪些種類的大陸產品財政部必須採取適中嚴查的這個方式才能夠有效防堵低價傾銷台灣甚至於透過台灣來其產地銷售到美國目前呢"},{"start":3609.295,"end":3611.296,"text":"目前來說當然高風險產品我們還是對於美國對他們課徵反傾銷稅跟301條款高關稅的部分那未來我們會擴大查查的範圍而且會強那個強度也會加強我們以各官會以官務長"},{"start":3625.551,"end":3641.647,"text":"帶隊組成一個小組做專案的棋查而且密度也會加強避免形成這個他們想要違規轉運的目的那當然我們這裡也請所有廠商也要知道千萬不要以身試法不要以身試法他們也如果有這種情況也歡迎來檢舉"},{"start":3643.939,"end":3660.353,"text":"那個部長這是政府事後處罰的作法財政部處罰的對象有哪些會不會因為川普關稅政策擴大處罰對象的範圍會不會啊對於有關他違規這個標示不實或申報不實的部分我們會依照貿易法移給國貿署來做懲罰"},{"start":3670.165,"end":3682.62,"text":"那最高可以拔到300而且可以或者是禁止輸出入營業那另外在自由貿易港區我們是依照自由貿易港區的條例來做移情處罰那對於相關罰則的部分我們希望能夠重罰讓這個避免以身試法部長美國海關檢視產地啊那這個"},{"start":3690.407,"end":3698.037,"text":"不僅大部分採個案來認定而且判定的原則更為多樣複雜國內產業重難是取得國內"},{"start":3703.274,"end":3724.419,"text":"MIT的認證也可能受到挑戰那針對美國海關原產地認定個案的做法配合這次整個川普關稅政策的實施請問部長財政部有統計過有哪些外銷美國的國內產業可能成為重點觀察的指標"},{"start":3725.984,"end":3728.407,"text":"我想我們每一樣產品都每一樣出口貨物都要做嚴格的審查那對於原產地證明怎麼樣的合法以及標準國貿署這個部分剛剛我們那個國貿經濟部的次長也有詳細的一個說明這個部分會持續的精進"},{"start":3743.186,"end":3766.955,"text":"香港部長 針對大陸產品低價傾銷 習產地的策略川普似乎把戰線拉到美國境外那我請問部長 你認為這個有效可行嗎對於習產地本身就是違法的一個行為這個部分我們當然是要嚴格的查查跟執行如果有違反的話就要懲罰嘛"},{"start":3768.052,"end":3796.025,"text":"部長因為卓榮泰卓院長說美國非常在意稀產地的問題未來中國到美國稅率都非常的高那中國產品會向世界各地來流竄最有可能跑到台灣來經過小三通就進來那部長政府竟然意見大陸產品將無路可銷"},{"start":3797.205,"end":3807.009,"text":"的大量這個低價的來傾銷到台灣來甚至於以加工的方式來吸產地那我請問部長大陸台商會不會成為大陸產品低價傾銷台灣的破口會不會"},{"start":3813.115,"end":3830.86,"text":"我想對於是不是低價請銷的部分我們剛剛報告裡面它有一定的制度跟怎樣來認定那都是我們依照WTO的規定所以會調查第一個有沒有低價請銷這個低價就是說它出口到我們這邊來的價格比它在國內正常銷售價格來的低甚至有影響到"},{"start":3832.241,"end":3860.703,"text":"國內產業的部分都會構成所謂的一個傾銷我們依照會刻意反傾銷稅新南向國家的這些台商會不會也成為大陸的產品轉運加工低價傾銷的破口會不會所有的破口我們都必須要防堵面對可能產生的破口你認為有沒有辦法可以阻絕在境外有沒有辦法"},{"start":3862.17,"end":3880.841,"text":"當然這個部分涉及到這個進口那進口以後他是不是往哪裡去這個部分我們也是要查查的是部長川普關稅政策新南向國家也在名單中上個禮拜財委會質詢時央行總裁曾說新南向國家萬一啊受關稅這關稅戰的影響政府也會"},{"start":3884.103,"end":3907.255,"text":"調整相關的政策內容然而就本席了解由於不少廠商採自中國進口原料或半成品台灣加工製造再出口到美國的模式所以預期新南向國家發展的台商恐怕容易受到美國海關高標準的檢視那我請問部長"},{"start":3909.016,"end":3935.774,"text":"現階段針對這些在新南向國家發展的台商政府能夠給予他們有哪些的幫助我想新南向在新南向國家裡面做這個製造或營運的台灣的廠商就政府來說第一個他只要正常營運不管是我們輸出銀行或者我們公股銀行對正常營運的廠商當然應該在金融上還給予支援"},{"start":3937.025,"end":3956.45,"text":"那至於如果他們要回台灣來投資的話那台灣也會背後相關的條件然後協助他們回台投資或轉向到其他國家的投資最後一個過去因為美國去中化的政策全球電子產業這個產業鏈積極的分散整個大陸生產的比重那朝東南亞等歷代發展"},{"start":3962.671,"end":3983.323,"text":"那國內有許多上市櫃電子產業的公司未配合政府新南向政策新南向國家更成為熱點整個投資區域那我請問部長像川普關稅政策下的台商投資成本獲利空間會不會相對出現成品價格上漲"},{"start":3984.784,"end":4008.442,"text":"那這個成本提升獲利當然減少的情況財政部的稅收會不會因此受到影響會不會如果收入減少的話當然會影響到稅收會影響到稅收那你們認為稅收的影響大致上大概照預計會出現有哪些稅損這個稅損的計算那還是要看最後它實際的影響程度"},{"start":4012.443,"end":4021.945,"text":"這樣齁 我是希望說我們要事前的一個預防啦 這個很重要是是是 是 謝謝好 謝謝德部委員接著請吳秉瑞委員質詢主席麻煩請財政部莊部長 經濟部江次長好 財政部莊部長 經濟部江次長"},{"start":4046.331,"end":4070.747,"text":"委員好首先請教 關入署出口的統計是以出口地為標準的比如說實際裝船到美國這樣子但是美國的海關的計算方法是不一樣他是以進口來原國或是最多目的地為準這兩個定義不同 那如何在統計數據上如何去協調"},{"start":4077.26,"end":4091.219,"text":"這個部分確實在統計數上會有不同比如說我們是以出口當時的離岸的價格那他們是用什麼樣的價格不是只有價格喔我剛剛講的是一個是出口地一個是進口來源國跟最終目的地"},{"start":4093.181,"end":4111.194,"text":"會有不同都會相互的釐清另外就是說還有一個時間差的問題還有時間差這裡面是不是會造成民國113年台灣對美國的出口暴增到1000多億增加了46.1%跟上一年增加46.1%跟這個有沒有關係啊"},{"start":4113.939,"end":4130.136,"text":"我想這個部分當然因為計算的方式不同但他是用分子分母兩個都加的話他的分子都是增加其實美國認為台灣去年對他的順超是379億美金可是台灣本身的統計我們的這個粗糙是649億就中間就差了90億美金啊"},{"start":4136.563,"end":4159.922,"text":"這個金額就不一樣啊那是不是因為定義不一樣所以造成的會有差距那我們是不是應該要跟美國來好好的協商說這個到底要怎麼統計才能夠大家用一致的標準呢當然我想委員所提的這個部分我們可以把資料準備給我們經貿小組在談判的時候可以做一個說明也就是說金額上的一些我們統計上的不同的地方"},{"start":4161.02,"end":4182.786,"text":"提醒你美國針對產品的原料還有製造如果有35%是來自中國他就會認定是Made in China就是中國製造而他中國製造的關稅是比較高的到145%被宣布是這樣但是台灣針對附加價值我們如果製造附加價值超過35%我們就是認為是台灣製造"},{"start":4186.227,"end":4202.556,"text":"這中間就有落差我們想想看如果一個美國我們要出口去美國的產品從中國進口原料50%然後我們台灣加工50%它的價值然後出口去美國那這樣到底算是台灣製造還是算是中國製造"},{"start":4205.658,"end":4223.844,"text":"這個部分我們對於原產地的核發經濟部這邊有一定相關的規定什麼樣情況下可以發MIT這樣的一個原產地證明那至於美國它這樣的一個標準以及所謂的所謂的含中成分的問題就是說你的比例是多少是不是用什麼樣的課稅我想這部分是不是可以請經濟部來做說"},{"start":4225.575,"end":4240.926,"text":"那麼次長你有聽得懂我在問什麼嗎我們台灣現在自己的標準說我們無論原料從哪裡來只要在台灣製造負加價值超過35%以上就認為是台灣製造但是美國是這樣子美國進口到美國的產品"},{"start":4241.807,"end":4265.438,"text":"如果裡面的原料有35%以上它的價值是來自中國的他就認為是中國製造那我假設現在有一個狀況就是有某一項產品我們從中國進口原料或是半成品來到台灣加工結果裡面中國的原料跟它的半成品價值是50%台灣這邊的附加價值增加50%"},{"start":4268.581,"end":4290.072,"text":"以這個case而言台灣認為這是台灣製造但是美國認為這是中國製造那這中間這個矛盾要如何處理啊報告委員一個原產地的認定呢其實是進口國海關在認定您所提出的問題當然根據我們的規定是要有實質轉型也都是35%的轉變或者要稅率的這個稅號的轉換"},{"start":4295.194,"end":4319.948,"text":"所以我們現在有建議我們的所有的出口廠商一定要跟他的客戶他的美國的進口商要保持密切連續去詢問美國海關的相關規定第二個呢美國海關有個預審的制度我們的這個客戶可以請我們的出口商可以請客戶呢把這個要進口的產品的相關的成分的內容請美國海關先做一個預審"},{"start":4321.482,"end":4336.372,"text":"那這個是預審制度啊問題是我們台灣的規範就輸入美國的這一部分的產品要不要照美國的標準這樣的方式來修正啊不然的話我剛剛講那個case你還是沒有回答我"},{"start":4337.438,"end":4360.124,"text":"在美國的定義原料跟半成品只要價值在超過35%以上是來自中國他就認為中國製造但是台灣的定義卻是無論原料還有這個半成品從哪裡來只要在台灣加工產生的附加價值超過35%就認為是台灣製造那我剛剛那個case剛好have and have"},{"start":4361.854,"end":4390.177,"text":"台灣認為是台灣製造美國認為是中國製造這就剛好是美國認為你在替他洗產地啊在替中國洗產地不是嗎?相關的規定我們會再跟美國政府來做溝通我就說以剛剛我講的那個例子是不是就剛好美國政府就可以認為你台灣在幫中國洗產地這個部分的話要由美國來美國的海關來當你被美國海關認定你就慘啦你幫中國洗產地的時候台灣所有產品的關稅"},{"start":4394.581,"end":4407.447,"text":"所以我們現在呢是積極的鼓勵要降低這個所有的產品的含中成分我們經濟部也會輔導相關的業者做對所以我在今天在跟兩位溝通就是說我們台灣那個附加價值超過35%"},{"start":4409.508,"end":4426.221,"text":"如果你是銷到別的國家去或許這我們可以定義問題是你銷美國的產品你的定義要跟美國海關採取接近或一致的標準這樣我們台灣才不會有這個危險啊我今天就是在跟你溝通這件事情啊那你贊不贊成這樣的講法呢"},{"start":4428.652,"end":4444.565,"text":"所以我們一直有在鼓勵一定要降低他的產品有含中的成分這是經濟部一直在努力的方向我知道你剛剛已經有談過了你講的這個方式我也認同問題是你沒有回答到我的問題我們兩個的問題沒有在同一個平面上啦"},{"start":4445.225,"end":4473.39,"text":"你要鼓勵大家盡量原料或是半成品盡量不要有含中的成分這我也贊成問題是你至少要跟美國要協同商量有相同的計算方法我們才有辦法有一次的標準我現在在談你談的是相同的規範 一致的標準而不是你在講我也鼓勵我們應該要盡量往好的地方去啊但是這跟我剛剛跟你談的題目是兩件事情啦"},{"start":4475.949,"end":4495.481,"text":"所以這個提供給你們參考啦另外這個稀產地的太陽喔剛剛也要包括農業部這很難定義的啦我舉個例子我們在海上台灣海峽抓到的漁獲假設是中國的漁船抓到了台灣的漁船抓到的在海上做交易然後拿到台灣來在這邊銷售"},{"start":4498.629,"end":4524.287,"text":"那假設在這邊加工又出口去美國有沒有息產地的問題這也很難定義啊 農業部是不是來回答一下杜市長我剛剛的問題你有聽到水產的部分海上抓貨的其實它本來沒有國籍但是中國旅船抓貨 台灣旅船抓貨不一樣如果在海上做交易 然後把它運回來台灣然後再"},{"start":4525.171,"end":4536.72,"text":"出口去美國會不會有棲產地的問題應該這樣說啦 那個棲產地不是我們自己的棲產地那不是我們的貨嘛 對不對對啊 問題是你也知道我們的棲產地在海淀港那裡中國棲產地也在海淀港那裡那裡有時候就在海淀港購物海巡視會去那裡的這個部分 不行就不行"},{"start":4547.788,"end":4571.183,"text":"我當然知道不行啦 我的意思是說你這個有辦法很嚴格的來去處理這個事情不一定啦 境外要處理 國內要出口也是要來顧這個部分只有MIT才叫MIT好 那你先請回 江次長也先請回部長 是我上次跟你諮詢的時候在跟你談到那個小額包裹的事情"},{"start":4572.265,"end":4600.698,"text":"現在中國出現這種態樣大量的產品運到墨西哥去然後再用小額包裹分拆整個過去然後分拆用小額包裹進到美國去這樣給逃避關稅那我還是再次跟你強調小額包裹的免稅我知道有一些消費者因為他想要得到免稅的福利其實要向這裡澄清稅金是賣的人要交的"},{"start":4601.772,"end":4629.314,"text":"不是買方交的你賣方得到錢嘛 買方得到貨物嘛所以要交稅當然是賣方等於要交啊 對不對但是他們都是貪圖說我一年有幾次可以稅額他是像這樣子去降低那個價格可是這對台灣的製造業者非常的不公平台灣的製造業者有貨物稅出廠之後還有交易稅"},{"start":4630.768,"end":4642.968,"text":"然後他的官司獲利將來還有盈利事業所得稅分配股利到個人股東的時候還有綜合所得稅結果這些小額包括免稅進來通通不用了"},{"start":4645.459,"end":4661.147,"text":"那再來就是加害給付的問題 這上次我也跟你提過所以這部分拜託你一定要好好把關我們美國全部都希望製造業能夠重回美國了那台灣我們如果讓我們台灣的製造業者在一個不公平的競爭環境下那對台灣的業者是不公平的話是傷害台灣自身的產業是 我知道"},{"start":4672.458,"end":4689.945,"text":"委員一直對這個問題非常關注然後上次提案也要我們要提出一個報告這個部分我們會審慎的最後問一個問題一個小問題請問西產地從第一次美中貿易戰爭之後開始強調就重視到現在請問抓到多少件罰了多少金額罰了多少金額"},{"start":4701.275,"end":4729.15,"text":"這個是一年的價格一年還是從2018到現在應該是從2018到現在2018到現在抓到四十幾件罰了一百多萬報告委員這是自貿港區的部分因為它是依照自貿港區設置管理條例法還有貿易法的那多少貿易法的這個部分要貿易署這邊有所以我可以說部長今天來這邊報告寫的都很好看"},{"start":4730.646,"end":4750.685,"text":"不要供給本地做不到一年這個事情會嚴重影響到台灣未來美國如果對台灣界定他關稅該繳多少這會影響到台灣重大的產業所以今天這件事情絕對不是在這邊說一說文章講一講寫一寫很漂亮自貿港區2018到現在七年啊"},{"start":4754.392,"end":4757.617,"text":"40幾件100多萬你認為這有可能嗎我想這個部分也跟委員報告我們會擴大查查的範圍也就剛剛就說原來我們是針對他301這個高關稅可不可以每兩個月或是三個月給財政委員一個報告說你們有查獲多少"},{"start":4770.675,"end":4777.782,"text":"每兩個月提一個報告也可以我們把我們的各項的做法也可以提報對 要把你們已經查獲多少做的怎麼樣處罰做一個統計表統計數量給我們可以嗎可以 私貿港區的部分採訪是海關來採訪"},{"start":4785.971,"end":4796.522,"text":"那貿易法的部分要請貿易署這邊協助來統計數目對啊 我經濟部那邊有聽到啊這個也要一起做啊最後再一個問題說你們報告裡面講說鼓勵民眾檢舉有沒有考慮給獎金"},{"start":4803.025,"end":4815.001,"text":"市產地抓獲 有罰款嘛那對於檢舉的這個民眾有沒有給獎金 增加誘因啊不然幹我什麼事 我為什麼要去檢舉報告委員 這部分我們來研議看看好 研議喔 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":4817.244,"end":4817.644,"text":"請戴思寶召委質詢"},{"start":4841.808,"end":4864.078,"text":"謝謝主席今天排這麼有水準的題目不錯 題目排得很好各位先進來有請我們的財政部的莊部長農業部的杜次長以及經濟部的江次長三位長官三位長官委員好"},{"start":4868.067,"end":4872.508,"text":"首先我請教農業部這次賴清德總統說跟美國談關稅從零開始 農民就開始緊張了農業談零的話 請問農業人口現在多少"},{"start":4890.001,"end":4903.647,"text":"報告委員 其實農業人口多少 你回答這問題我們現在是說我們有農保的農業嘛對不對農業人口多少了 農業人口多少因為其實我覺得這件事情其實不是不是 你沒有回答問題農業人口多少一個市場你都不知道"},{"start":4906.247,"end":4912.031,"text":"還是怎麼樣 農業人口你居然不知道你農業會市長咧實際從農多少 實際從農多少我會懷疑啊 現在Google都說實際從事農業的就業人口四成九萬啦"},{"start":4924.284,"end":4938.875,"text":"啊農業戶的76萬戶啦啊在農業戶裡面的人口233萬佔總人口10%啦差不多 差不多有啊你農業戶的廠商你不懂我們加入農保還有實際從農的有夠漏氣的 實際從農的49萬啊目前是這樣是啊 我跟你說你這三個廠商你在做咧怎麼這樣啊我問你啦真的把 把關稅"},{"start":4953.366,"end":4966.121,"text":"當我們要變零的話 大家要抓狂啊這樣從業人口有幾十萬人會抓狂啊其實農業對台灣的重要性 其實大家都知道不只農民知道 不止我們知道所以你怎麼樣 你堅持說不可以為零你要講出來啊你要講出來 請你大聲講出來 農業"},{"start":4974.158,"end":4997.792,"text":"我跟你講喔 即便我們加入WTO全世界在談零關稅 目標就是希望是零關稅都要保護全國 全世界的農業 都在保護他們當地的農民很重要的謝謝委員支持 其實本來在談判 不管是在WTO所以你要大聲講啊賴總統講的零 包括農業你這句 你敢不敢講應該這樣說 以農業為最優先 絕對保障他們最大的利益"},{"start":5003.049,"end":5025.626,"text":"董事長你再講一遍說農業的部分如果零關稅我們不接受可以嗎?說一遍應該不是這樣說啦我們所謂的談判其實一定是以台灣最優先那以農業部但是保障台灣的農業農民為最優先所以你不能接受農產品是零嘛還是這樣美國要來那個雞棒棒啊"},{"start":5026.886,"end":5045.071,"text":"磅磅雞腿啊 20%咧 20%應該是這樣說啦應該是這樣說 不會全部都變成零所以有機會變成零 那你厲害農民起來抗議喔 我剛才說了喔就業人口有49萬喔但是農戶裡面的人口有230幾萬喔這是10%的人口喔別說你如果來70萬 你就把他罪了喔"},{"start":5054.597,"end":5059.019,"text":"想好喔這個就是賴清德總統啊等於貴哥跟人家談啦一下子又要犧牲農民的權利啊好啦 請經濟部的江市長你可以回去了"},{"start":5070.525,"end":5079.855,"text":"都不曉得我對你有失望的我又問三不知居然能夠發生在你國管農業部的做這麼大的事 又什麼都不知道大嘴苦苦的這樣而已 還會這樣來 我請教請問我們跟美國開始談了沒有關稅 關稅"},{"start":5088.894,"end":5114.9,"text":"開始談了沒有我們都已經準備好了我們是ready to talk但是not talk yet我們都可以隨時的所以還沒有嘛居然有媒體來嚇說我們跟以色列第一批的英台灣現在被抓到 不是嘛第一批美國要談的是日本 韓國 印度 英國 澳洲第一波嘛"},{"start":5115.919,"end":5141.168,"text":"請問妳知道因為第一波什麼時候要談?這個韓國是下個禮拜根據媒體報導韓國的禮拜日本是明天明天印度呢?印度是之前之前有有談過英國呢?英國英國英國的部分也是之前的總理有去澳洲呢?澳洲 澳洲澳洲 sorry"},{"start":5146.769,"end":5172.923,"text":"澳洲我...不知道你們掌握一下啦齁我請教你談的結果可以不可以讓老百姓說我們談的結果大概就是落在10%到30%到20%之間是不是這樣子報告委員我們會爭取國家最大的利益而且一定要保護我國產業的利潤利那是什麼那是什麼 你說這聽不懂"},{"start":5174.604,"end":5185.966,"text":"談判的過程我們會積極的來幫我們我們要結果嘛 你談出什麼嘛他現在來講是基準的所有全世界國家最少課10%現在請問你台灣到美國課幾%你是外貿的現在是10%現在過去了 10%以前了10%以前課多少要看個別的產品"},{"start":5199.677,"end":5215.76,"text":"大概是百分之二點幾到百分之三八啦 剋三八啦這個叫不當基礎 剋三八啦所以現在來講我們賣到美國是一千一百多億對不對 到美國去了一千一百多億美金"},{"start":5217.011,"end":5229.575,"text":"然後剋3% 過去剋3% 現在要剋10%一來就損失7%這就是為什麼莊部長很明快地第一次回答我的時候說我們的稅損就75億美金是從這裡來的啦7.5億7.5億美金7.5億喔 你7.5億要怎麼省來來來 部長要怎麼說"},{"start":5240.397,"end":5264.126,"text":"7.5億要怎麼省呢我想跟委員報告我說7.5億是指說以113年美國進口到我國的實際的貨物來按照我們所課徵的關稅113年是7.5億美金那你跟我講的不一樣啊你跟我講的不一樣啊我是問我們到美國去是1100多億美金現在要多課7%啊當然就七十幾億啦"},{"start":5266.943,"end":5289.014,"text":"我現在講對法情報部長還是講說看看各個產品有不同的不是不是啦平均AverageAverage是沒有錯的所以就是現在原來3%現在他扣10%雖然沒有扣32%但是對我們來講立即的影響就是要損失了多給美國70幾億美金啦這個江部長 江次長你同意這樣說嗎"},{"start":5296.181,"end":5312.139,"text":"是 不過現在呢我們的出口商跟客戶呢都在協商看是不是還是有尤其是相關的自通訊產品是有客戶端來繳交相關的當然啦你個別可能低了但是Average我跟你講Average再請教中部長啊"},{"start":5313.508,"end":5336.432,"text":"現在大家看了 像美國要我們什麼 投資市場我們要投資的 大量的投資了除了台積電 大哥去了 二哥連電也要去了還有大量去買它的天然氣啊 這個石油啊阿拉斯卡那裡 要韓國 日本跟我們一起要蓋一個pipe啊 類似pipe一樣啊通到我們這邊 到時那裡開關一轉台灣的錢就進來 去美國啦還有將貿易障礙等等等等還有一條最近大家注意的"},{"start":5343.153,"end":5368.401,"text":"說真的不行就買美國一百年無息的公債啊部長你怎麼看政府的財政這個部分應該是屬於央行財政管理的我知道啦 但是以你財政管情的央行他這邊他是用他的所謂的外匯存體去做他的財務的部分他現在已經80%是都有利率的啦有值利率的是 他買貨不買我覺得央行這邊會做處理是"},{"start":5369.941,"end":5377.126,"text":"這個很嚴重喔 這個等於是買了會倒閉喔這個買了 如果真的買100年現在來說的話 我們還有3% 4%現在改成100年 來 我們來看一個第二個 請那個江市長 就可以請回了財政部 現在財政部的事情今年你們確定報稅到 延到6月嗎好 那我就給你算了啦你看 另外一張這個啊"},{"start":5396.927,"end":5405.42,"text":"財政部沒有時間限制喔只要你送來 隨時送來書面報告就可以解凍了國庫署兩案 戶稅署五區 國稅署五案官務署四案 國產署四案"},{"start":5412.189,"end":5425.205,"text":"一個月內送書面報告就可以解凍的財政部商案 國庫署兩案國庫署叫五區 五區國稅局一案關稅 關路署六案財政資訊中心兩案各位 看看這個數字啊財政部拜託啊 堵車啊"},{"start":5432.739,"end":5448.597,"text":"這些東西我們在翻前一頁去年的時候早就3月20號已經過了早就街東開街東就動了現在已經超過快一個月了還不滴出來大家都了解啦為了大罷沒我們再回去剛才那一頁"},{"start":5451.455,"end":5457.523,"text":"這麼多的案子 出面報告寫 報告就可以解凍連這個都不要寫 連這個都不要部長啊 你一方面分得上一頁一方面你就說 哎呀我可以6月才報稅就不好意思說 你錢這麼多喔"},{"start":5470.39,"end":5477.252,"text":"你們錢很多 解凍也不要解凍更何況你也不要報告不要來這裡報告什麼都不要去寫一個報告書名報告載你走 然後就解凍了居然這樣都可以配合大罷免莊部長啊政務官是中華民國的政務官不是民進黨的政務官啊不要作賤自己啊寫報告來這裡 回到那裡各位看官看清楚"},{"start":5500.468,"end":5523.349,"text":"財政部多門的配額大罷免連動書面寫幾個字就可以解凍的案子來在這裡都不理居然這個樣子部長您回答一下跟委員報告有關總預算的那個凍結案件那相關的提案內容我們財政部跟所屬都逐一在"},{"start":5523.829,"end":5545.165,"text":"核對然後提案內容然後書寫報告同時我們也會去再做盤點檢視是不是符合了有關解凍的一個要件譬如說有些案子他必須要直行完畢以後才可以提出來申請所以這個部分每個案子跟情況不同我們必須要去重新做一個盤點要符合這個也不要經過立法院的議員會什麼都不要你報告找人財政委員會就解凍了啊這樣的舉手之勞也都不做"},{"start":5551.649,"end":5566.778,"text":"讓人家瞧不起啊 裝不雜 我覺得不是這樣子我們非常地鄭重對這個案件最後還美國的政府官變成民進黨官 變成瞧不起最後一題 今天主席列的很有水準的題目台西產地 你稍微暫停一分鐘 讓我把這個講完"},{"start":5568.715,"end":5572.36,"text":"自由貿易港區啊 違規的轉運我都查得很仔細喔112年16件50萬 花50萬而已一件就花3萬多113年10件花40萬這就是非常可能犧牲地的"},{"start":5585.435,"end":5609.572,"text":"來抓一個Made in Taiwan的處理這個是 鐵牌啦我們有讀喔 我們的規定什麼叫犧牲地 不管從 比如說中國大陸從任何地方來台灣我們在加工 Value Added就是我們加工的一個級數超過35%就是Made in Taiwan這麼清楚 那我就請教部長低於35%是不是通通叫犧牲地"},{"start":5617.199,"end":5625.162,"text":"這個部分是有貿易署這邊他們在發生地許可證的時候來來來 經濟部的江市長你講一下 不好意思你給我講一下因為今天是週二的題目你們有規定在台灣進來不管從什麼地方來的產品只要我台灣加工的附加價值增加35%以上就不叫西產地否則就是西產地 是這樣子嗎"},{"start":5647.383,"end":5673.334,"text":"我們對於原產地的認定他有兩個標準第一個是他要轉換這個貨品號列稅號整個完全轉換就實質轉型另外一個呢他的在台灣的這個必須要有35%的這個附加價值也就是說換言之呢如果說你一些簡單加工啊切割包裝這種我們就不認不認為說這是符合那個都叫稀產地是不是這個應該跟"},{"start":5679.017,"end":5684.521,"text":"今天一名的主席就排喜產地亞這麼有水溫的題目我就問清楚什麼叫喜產地亞"},{"start":5686.563,"end":5713.792,"text":"你怎麼知道?習產地就是沒有經過實質轉型以及符合附加價值你們已經有了,只要附加價值,加工超過35%就是沒得台灣就是沒得台灣,其他都是鐵牌就是習產地,鐵牌就是習產地,人家不是嗎?是是嗎?所以低於35%就是習產地,確定這是WTO的共同,全世界共同的標準"},{"start":5714.81,"end":5722.374,"text":"就是local content要超過35%了好 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝世保委員接著請郭國文委員質詢主席啊 我要先講一下我每次在賴委員後面都等了很久賴世保能不能稍微約束一下是 好再提醒一下賴世保委員"},{"start":5742.571,"end":5755.051,"text":"好謝謝主席有請那個莊部長還有彭署長以及江次長好那個我們那個莊部長江次長委員好"},{"start":5756.004,"end":5785.764,"text":"部長好 部長那個中國啤酒傾銷衝擊到台啤的員工的生計台啤公會來跟我澄清從竹南烏日散化的員工數從減少了三成到四成所以它的產業的衝擊傾銷造成市場被侵佔的情況底下是非常嚴重的現在我們在談席產地也有可能會被席產地我們可能看起來我們好像是加害者其實某個程度我們也是中國的被害者"},{"start":5786.805,"end":5801.387,"text":"所以這個問題你們要去面對這個問題的過程當中應該從兩頭思考我們不要成為加害者我們也不要成為被害者中國啤酒就是這種狀況啊你們現在的反省銷調查現在什麼時候做出認定產業認定的部份經濟部什麼時候"},{"start":5803.578,"end":5825.549,"text":"不知道6月底本來初步調查是4月20號要做出認定喔已經調查了已經在調查了那延長到什麼時候才要完成沒有延長就是按照我們規定的一個進程目前沒有延長經濟部在認定我會請經濟部認定要快一點啦好不好"},{"start":5826.229,"end":5851.534,"text":"是我們在進行損害市長你可能不清楚但是回去多了解一下再加快已經明明對台灣的產業已經造成這麼大的傷害這很明顯中國想要透過這種傾銷的手法把台灣的消費市場複地化把台灣的消費市場內地化不只是消費市場而已還有製造市場的部分你去看江市長你曉不曉得啊越南的部分有沒有在做不鏽鋼線啊"},{"start":5854.005,"end":5879.084,"text":"美國商務部的DOC調查過越南的不鏽鋼線其實使用是南韓進口的原料生產就我去了解過業者越南也沒有做不鏽鋼線的一個廠商那為什麼有高達這個一萬五千多噸從二零二三年到了這個二零二四年一萬八千多噸到現在三星級已經佔了15%都從越南進來的喔"},{"start":5881.618,"end":5906.078,"text":"都從雲南進來囉所以台灣的產業有多大的衝擊而且還有一個那個部長這不是經濟部的事情而已經濟部我看一副狀況外還在看那些數字你看我們就是因為這樣子的情況底下我們是被害者進口產地的時候彭署長在後面有沒有加上一個進口的產地證明"},{"start":5910,"end":5937.845,"text":"報告委員 那個進口產地要不要付產證那個別的貨物都有不同的規定對 就我知道有些產品就類似這不鏽鋼線的部分是不用的是不用的所以說越南進來你就是以為越南做 不是越南根本沒有那個產你沒有個產品溯源的機制嘛對啊結果搞了半天它越南是被洗產地的洗了產地越南成為加害者台灣的業者變受害者"},{"start":5939.141,"end":5961.364,"text":"主長你要去了解你要透過這種加入一個進口審查產地的證明才能夠避免台灣的產業被加害者同意嗎同意同意要去加強還有現在這種狀況嚴重到什麼程度呢這種就等於製造市場的被內地化"},{"start":5962.621,"end":5986.665,"text":"這樣的情況底下齁 我跟你講情況要請那個部長還有經濟部跟財政部組成一個調查小組你們看起來我們被我們起產地好像我們是加害者其實我們被害者的項目我們才一併的要去調查啊部長 你們同意不是這個不修剛線而已啊其他的署長剛剛有講很多都是不用付的你根本不清楚"},{"start":5988.288,"end":5996.992,"text":"不清楚結果站在經濟部你要保護產業對不對台灣的產業對不對你要保護員工的就業機會對不對這樣的情況底下你們要不要組一個調查群組來調查群組兩位"},{"start":6000.684,"end":6022.275,"text":"我想謝謝委員的提示這個部分我們會和經濟部一起來把這個事情來做一個好的處理避免台灣的製造市場也被內地化消費市場被內地化製造市場被內地化還有一種是消費市場跟製造市場同時都會被內地化那個莊部長我再讓你看一個數字最近大家有在討論這個電商的問題"},{"start":6024.396,"end":6051.038,"text":"這中國電商也有傾銷的問題這傾銷的數字我讓你看一下中國從2022年到2024年因為他用低價傾銷什麼方式就補助運費嘛99塊以下的人民幣不用運費的情況底下這種變相的低價傾銷的方式以至於讓他的整個市佔率高達64.4%而且你如果再加上香港再加上澳門"},{"start":6052.765,"end":6061.794,"text":"整個進口的這一個電商的部分港中澳 中港澳加起來超過八成八 將近九成這也是很清楚的把台灣的消費市場內地化的一個結果嘛這會影響到什麼 影響到消費市場 影響到製造市場這非常嚴重啊"},{"start":6077.253,"end":6090.039,"text":"所以你去看類似這一種變相的這種補貼的方式達到低價請銷的一個目的的這種做法我要請問一下你有沒有類似反請銷的制裁方式 有沒有"},{"start":6092.179,"end":6111.657,"text":"部分因為都是小的包裹不同的消費者這個部分然後他的貨品也很分散大部分什麼生活上的一些小東西或者是小的家電之類的這個部分那當然這個部分所謂的第一個是小包裹的量快速成長而且透過我們的海運快遞進來你現在在描述現狀我在問你如何解決問題你一直在描述現狀"},{"start":6116.18,"end":6142.106,"text":"現階段來說我們的免稅額度是兩千元這個部分有沒有可能差別待遇化其他的國家沒有這種低價請銷的情況有低價請銷的中國就把它降為一千或者其他國家有低價請銷我們要把它降為一千有沒有可能是委員這個方向我們也會納入一起考慮這個部分本來就是目前我們在你們要納入計畫喔這要差別待遇因為要用這種方式遏止這種當的請銷嘛對不對"},{"start":6145.647,"end":6151.273,"text":"對國內的產業也會受到傷害我同意委員的觀點你知道淘寶在幾年前一直想要進入台灣的市場裡頭只有三次要進入投審會都沒有通過就他轉個彎用什麼方式他用下一個廣告公司"},{"start":6170.441,"end":6185.145,"text":"用廣告公司來達到營運的事實啊就在廣告公司營運的事實的情況底下你知道嗎這種廣告公司進來這又是100%由阿里巴巴集團所投資設立的叫香港這個淘寶國際產業結果呢他在這邊一樣達到營運的事實啊"},{"start":6191.354,"end":6208.022,"text":"你完全拿他沒轍嗎結果你知道嗎這會變成什麼早期有一段時間我們的這個電商的各自外流就達成詐騙犯案的結果嘛所以這裡頭有牽扯到各自的管理還有牽扯到什麼因為違禁商品上架的問題你完全沒有辦法管理他"},{"start":6209.885,"end":6220.535,"text":"市長 這問題要怎麼處理第一個 你要去思考這個各自的問題要去跟書發布來做個協調總共有高達多少我們2024年從中國進口的小額免稅的商品高達3337萬個比我們人口數還多1000萬如果以六次滿額來計算的話你至少有556萬人來使用淘寶"},{"start":6236.977,"end":6260.005,"text":"就是各自的人數是如此之多喔市長這非常嚴重喔你要怎麼處理我們會跟數位部來做不是數發部處理而已你不是跟數發部講而已還要跟他講你要如何落地監管的問題嘛他等於繞個彎經過你的投審思嘛對不對這種情況底下是不是要考慮廢止淘寶國際產業的這個投資許可"},{"start":6263.206,"end":6282.876,"text":"我們核准淘寶的話因為它是電子資訊服務業就是如同剛才委員所說的它去年的雙十一的時候有做了相關的廣告其實我們經濟部已經對於這一家公司進行了相關的裁罰相關的裁罰不夠啦對不對它的盈利也這麼大你的行政裁罰能夠裁罰多少"},{"start":6284.09,"end":6308.101,"text":"我們而且呢除了這個以外我們要求他要改正如果沒有改正呢如果連續的情況底下他明明就是這樣營業的方式啊他繞個彎啊你必要的時候應該要廢止許可才對啦否則的話你這個投審會的功能就不在啦就等被架空了不是嗎必要的時候我們可以要求他撤資好必要的時候要求撤資我就等你這句話好最後一個部分喔那個"},{"start":6309.266,"end":6336.181,"text":"你知道那個部長上一次有關於這個Anytech的部分新加坡的這個資金很難辨識他進來以後變化股權香港更難辨識這種香港更難辨識的情況底下有一些進來之後的這一個部分的資金的資本屬性的轉化的過程當中有沒有可能一個至親的機制那個次長這個部分我要請你跟那個陸委會溝通一下因為今天陸委會沒有來"},{"start":6337.779,"end":6356.858,"text":"也就是中資的認定要怎麼認定以前港澳資基本上我們把它視為外資還把它視為第三地喔對不對可是現在隨著港澳內地化的情況底下中國的屬性越來越高這資本屬性應該是不同這種不同的情況底下它隱含的就是中資的色彩未來越高嘛"},{"start":6357.538,"end":6368.595,"text":"那這個部分你有沒有可能以前以港資澳資澳資進來的這些人你要求他類似像陸配一樣自清一下說我呢基本上沒有受到中資的實質控制權有沒有可能那個次長"},{"start":6369.537,"end":6395.985,"text":"有的我們對於這些業者其實都要他們來做切結我們也很擔心是假外資真中資的情形所以這個部分現在有進行切結然後未來在股權變動的時候我們也會要求這些外資如果有任何股權的變動從現在開始要求起我們已經開始了最根本的方式你們應該跟陸委會講清楚港澳條例該改要改"},{"start":6397.796,"end":6403.827,"text":"港澳之間的這個資本屬性已經中資化的情況底下我們要把它視為中資來看待你同不同意"},{"start":6404.781,"end":6428.033,"text":"是我們再跟陸委會來進行相關討論好好最後我再請那個部長說一下因為天然災害的結果有很多青龍的權益也受損沒有收入天然災害的結果然後有一些資金的一些貸款的部分請部長好好思考一下該優惠應該有優惠該展期應該讓他展期請那個部長回去思考一下好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝郭委員謝謝部長接下來請賴委員會員質詢"},{"start":6439.212,"end":6444.699,"text":"謝謝主席有請財政部部長還有經濟部農業部次長請財政部莊部長以及經濟部和農業部的兩位次長"},{"start":6456.351,"end":6473.763,"text":"我們針對川普總統在這一波的一個關稅關稅的一個議題其實我們很普遍在網路上有一個美國解放日他就講說川普不會讓任何的一個地方排除在外"},{"start":6474.423,"end":6498.037,"text":"跟美國的一個對等關稅的一個議題排除在外甚至就是說攔戟的這個企業它也是一樣所以就是說在這麼嚴重的一個對等關稅的一個問題裡頭然後又有這麼多的一個不確定性川普他可能今天早上講了到了中午以後又改了"},{"start":6498.777,"end":6516.102,"text":"好這個美國解放日不讓任何一個地方排除在外那我們在上週五我們的卓院長也講到了我們事前的一個預防事前的一個預防然後就是事中的一個嚴查事後的一個嚴華那他特別強調台灣不能成為世界貿易的一個破口當然我想就是台灣將"},{"start":6525.844,"end":6543.992,"text":"嚴謹的一個預防稀產地NIT就是NIT所以我們要啟動還請銷的一個調查這個毋庸置疑當然我們都可以看到政府的一個決心但在這裡我要請教經濟部次長次長你剛才針對的就是"},{"start":6546.26,"end":6571.06,"text":"郭國文委員的這個小兒包裹就是說我們知道這個小兒包裹長期其實我可以這樣講啊長期就是說我們的關務署施上一直認為說這個小兒的包裹就是說在財政委員會裡頭有很多的委員不斷的一個質詢可是顯然你們沒有把這個事情看到非常的一個嚴重啊"},{"start":6571.881,"end":6592.755,"text":"那美國川普總統他在4月9號簽署的一個行政命令他講說從中國進口價值800美元的這個以下的小額包裹他加徵關稅從貨值的30%增到90%那甚至港媒的一個報導他措施是在5月2號"},{"start":6593.976,"end":6610.819,"text":"那個生效就是等於是香港的也一樣生效那台灣的呢剛才你跟郭委員講你說淘寶就是才華改正還有惠子許可甚至必要的時候撤資你有沒有這樣子的一個決定呢"},{"start":6613.077,"end":6640.566,"text":"報告委員其實我們在二月份已經找了國內的相關的電商平台電商平台非常的樂意跟政府來配合因為我們經濟部對於相關有一千多項的這個產品都有規定要因時檢驗所以電商平台現在已經跟我們的經濟部有做連線任何進口的產品好市長如果他不配合的時候必要的時候有沒有辦法撤資你有沒有這樣的一個決心呢"},{"start":6641.837,"end":6669.705,"text":"我跟你講你如果不撤它的話我們國內很多零售業就是會先被撤了那經濟部一個這個監督我們全國經濟的這個部門那如果這樣子放任不作為的話我相信這個台灣的社會其實基本上是會非常非常的有更大的一個反撲對於淘寶在台灣因為他所從事的廣告業務跟他所登記的項目不一樣"},{"start":6670.527,"end":6691.114,"text":"我剛才有跟委員報告我們已經給予裁罰然後命期改正如果他不改正的話我們就會進行撤資的動作這個部分已經通知了該公司所以期限到什麼時候目前的話期限還沒有到期限到什麼時候在今年的上半年上半年6月30號"},{"start":6693.952,"end":6716.05,"text":"這個確切的日期容我回去再去好 會後給資料好不好好 接著我們請那個次長你請回我接著請那個杜次長杜次長我想就是說針對的這個台灣的一個那個就是是不是會變為一個息產地那其實我們比較擔心的農業的一個議題那相對的就是說我先從這個吳國瑜來講起"},{"start":6718.132,"end":6737.208,"text":"那吳國瑜其實現階段我們看不到他大概要五個月可能到了八九月的時候他現在剛剛放苗下去嘛那有沒有一個比較好的方式因為顯然就是說中國一定會利用利用台灣來洗產地你們有沒有什麼比較積極的一個作為呢"},{"start":6739.67,"end":6761.096,"text":"謝謝委員關心,因為農業是我們最重要的一個產業吳國瑜剛提到吳國瑜現在都在放苗而已,所以我們有要做養殖登記,放養登記這是第一點那第二點其實就接下來要出去的這個部分一定要加強溯源,包括它的流向跟到最終的產品,這個我們都會來做對,溯源還有就是產地"},{"start":6763.817,"end":6787.604,"text":"我們有一個管控他要來做定期所以除了這些以外有沒有比較一個積極的方式就是說你的這個產品的一個檢驗的機制我們看到了那你驗收就是查驗加工廠的一個進出口量還有你要提高中國的水產品的一個關稅那這些有沒有辦法做到呢"},{"start":6788.945,"end":6802.519,"text":"就進口的部分其實當然在邊境包括海關包括我們還包括衛福部他說那個殘留檢驗第二個是在我們國內生產的部分從源頭剛從放養要去做登錄到最終產品要去注意那委員在"},{"start":6804.281,"end":6819.919,"text":"檢報上面提到的這個如果能不能透過其他的檢驗包括來源的DNA標示或是同位數我覺得這個農業部要做這些檢測都完全會這個完全沒有問題啊我們有幾個行啊包括茶葉啦 五齡啦但是我跟你講"},{"start":6821.439,"end":6822.66,"text":"我的蝴蝶蘭幾乎就是團滅"},{"start":6841.857,"end":6864.362,"text":"你看他這樣子他面對的他最大的一個對手他的越南還有就是說他的這個荷蘭幾乎都是毫無招架之力我們不然是零關稅嘛現在10%對業者來講其實是個蠻大的壓力在所以你有把握是10%嗎那你有把握說在這個90天以後而不是"},{"start":6865.422,"end":6891.819,"text":"還是維持10%嗎不管怎麼樣對我們來講一定有影響所以我們的蘭花業者包括我們做很多農產品的業者我們一定要讓他第一個要渡過這個難關是所以這個金融支持第二個一定要提升體質讓他可以永續經營到底第一年就是免稅他所有借的免利息不是免稅免利息就是第一年的免利息然後一個就是一個廠商我們提供五千萬五千萬的一個借貸這個有沒有確定"},{"start":6893.76,"end":6911.715,"text":"應該是這樣,我們一定要來金融支持,至少要讓他渡過這個難關我要很確定的,你們自己到地方去的,都寫得很清楚每一副是五千萬,每一個廠商是五千萬,利息減免一年就是非常確定的"},{"start":6913.697,"end":6933.728,"text":"一定要先讓這些就是我們所有的養殖部還有就是我們所有的蘭花產業每一個人就是把信心先把它安定下來還有你的貿易商這個貿易商這個確實也是一個非常重要我們必須要就是有非常強大的一個信心喊話"},{"start":6935.77,"end":6963.007,"text":"我們現在農業支持希望貿易商不要給錢給辭變價所以我們有一個平台就是說如果真的碰到有刻意壓低價格一定要來通報我們來到處理所以我還是在重複的跟那個次長再講一次就是第一年的利息第一年的利息是免的還有就是我們每一戶最高的一個補貼額度是五千萬這個是絕對確定的對不對利息減免一定有然後讓他能夠有這個資金周轉這件事情也一定會有"},{"start":6964.088,"end":6969.173,"text":"最高的額度是五千萬啊你們自己寫得這麼清楚要認帳啊"},{"start":6972.51,"end":6977.793,"text":"要認賬好不好好謝謝委員謝謝市長我想就是說針對的就是說這個還請銷還制息產地的一個問題接著我要請問財政部長就是說部長有沒有機會針對這些商品的一個還請銷的一個標準你們最基本的一個判讀的標準到底是什麼"},{"start":6995.546,"end":7023.669,"text":"我們會有兩個第一個就是經濟部會做調查然後還有財政部也會調查分別就是第一個有沒有傾銷的事實第二個有沒有對國內產業造成實質的損害這兩個一定要確認以後然後送到我們關稅審議小組裡面來做確認好我想這個非常的明確啦非常的明確那你們也一直就是說一直這樣子的開始著力的在調查了"},{"start":7025.067,"end":7044.181,"text":"這進行了嗎是的 目前來說跟剛剛報告就是有的已經課徵了反傾銷稅就在我們的報告裡面有八件那另外有兩件目前正在調查中就是大陸產製的進口啤酒還有特定的熱壓扁壓鋼瓶在進行反傾銷的調查中是"},{"start":7045.463,"end":7060.31,"text":"所以就是說這兩個這兩個就是特別你提出來的還在調查就是麥芽的那個釀造的一個啤酒還有就是那個特定的那個熱壓扁壓的一個鋼瓶我想這幾個產品我們就是說這兩個樣態的一個產品你們必須要就是用最高的一個謹慎的一個態度不然台灣的三業真的都會倒啊"},{"start":7070.854,"end":7071.015,"text":"尤其是農業會先倒"},{"start":7075.67,"end":7100.058,"text":"所以這個是大家最擔心的以後我們可能吃不到就是最好最平價的台灣米我們會吃到了可能就是米糕米米喔這個是跟我民生息息相關的我們也吃不到最便宜的就是最便宜的這些我們台灣所生產的這些農產品所以部長請加油是 謝謝委員我想這個盤錦蕭調查我們會加速的處理是 謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":7105.523,"end":7106.944,"text":"好 謝謝賴委員 謝謝部長 謝謝次長謝謝嘉賓委員 接著請鍾嘉賓委員質詢我要上廁所"},{"start":7134.585,"end":7145.67,"text":"主席 蔡黨委員先進 列席的政府金融市長 官員 會長 工作夥伴 媒體 記者 女士先生有請財政部莊部長 經濟部跟農業部的江次長和杜次長是 三位長官委員好部長好 兩位次長好小時候聽過一個說法 說"},{"start":7158.735,"end":7176.13,"text":"媽媽總是疼愛兒子,有一個阿婆,我講台語應該聽得懂啦她一個兒子呢,大兒子呢在擺地攤,小兒子呢在賣雨傘她每天都愁眉苦臉,人家問她為什麼?她說喔,好天我就歡樂我們的小孩子的風聲不會出去了啊,下雨天我的大兒子我就擺攤子啦"},{"start":7181.107,"end":7210.029,"text":"那人家說你要轉念啊你要說天氣好的話 你要想那個擺地攤的生意好啊萬一下了雨呢 賣雨傘呢 有人買啊部長你會怎麼想謝謝委員 我想委員的意思就是說其實我們對於任何來的一個變化其實國際政經情勢的變化是一直存在的也就是說面對變化的時候我們就要你這樣的回答好像我在星海羅盤啊我在問的就是說關稅到底是出口影響還是進口影響我們現在搞不清楚啊 來我們看一下"},{"start":7211.53,"end":7225.033,"text":"高關稅暫緩 結果呢 誒 本來柯基業本來擔心會被課稅啊 現在出貨潮啊 有沒有搶單啊 要搶船有沒有這種情況90天嘛 趕快把貨出一出不曉得90天後會不會提高關稅嘛 部長是不是這樣那我們屏東的農業廠也是這樣子啊剛剛那個人擔心南華賣不出去我們還擔心我們的鬼頭掏出不去啊現在是怎樣 誒 搞不好可以跟我們買多一點 要金融支持部長 是不是這樣子"},{"start":7240.461,"end":7269.333,"text":"金融支持所以金融支持下一頁台灣做過產業資金需求大增啊你看看本來超關稅暫停訂單又說呢哎呀大量訂單永路暫緩90天於是要採購原料產能全開需不需要資金是需要的那好我的問題很快來請下一頁是否已經掌握台灣各產業受美國對等關稅暫延90天的影響現況以及各產業資金緊急需求能夠及時到位有沒有把錢子彈銀彈準備好了"},{"start":7270.339,"end":7290.432,"text":"如果他擴大融資能來得及嗎這樣跟委員報告這個部分對於各產業的影響我們都一直在關注而且也跟他們座談那對於資金的部分都會準備好了也都會準備是880億本來是又遇到什麼出口出不去的他訂單被取消他的融資會斷現在是怎樣他要搶單要趕快有錢去買貨是不是這樣"},{"start":7294.574,"end":7318.582,"text":"好那我們來看一下齁其實呢我們來看其實目前呢我們來看到嚴防中國製品透過供應鏈從台灣銷美國美國都在防啊現在美國跟中國的145%他不能進來很擔心透過台灣再過去是不是這樣子所以今天都在問西產業的事情嘛好那我們來看過去怎麼做來川普1.0之前在18年之前"},{"start":7319.585,"end":7329.097,"text":"台灣怎樣 台灣有關鍵領主権利用中國東南沿海的其他的領主権和他內地便宜的勞動力然後消旺美國 是不是這樣"},{"start":7329.963,"end":7358.108,"text":"但是川普1.0之後呢開始調整了首先台灣 越南就起來了越南有便宜的勞動力但是在我們的半導體電子產業的部分昆山 蘇州 上海這邊的生態系很難把零組件移過來所以用貨運的方式到越南關鍵零組件從台灣去然後在越南組成後出口到美國這是這幾年發生的情況但是台灣有因應啊台灣因應了嘛自貿港"},{"start":7359.109,"end":7363.667,"text":"自貿港是叫境內關外 什麼意思江市長 什麼意思 自貿港"},{"start":7365.663,"end":7373.93,"text":"也就是在自貿港區因為他沒有進入到台灣本島所以他直接在自貿港區進行相關的加工是的 剛剛有那個我們吳秉樂委員問到說你看2024年兩岸海運直航貴量300萬破新高欸大量的中國來的貨物來到我們的自貿區然後呢 加值35%就成為是台灣出口的到美國這就是自貿港啊"},{"start":7393.476,"end":7395.543,"text":"美國防不防 防啊 我們來看一下"},{"start":7396.923,"end":7424.896,"text":"我們桃園航空自由貿易區自貿區2024年3兆貿易值桃園貢獻2.4兆但是裡面還有電子 生醫 自行車2025年還要成立一個智慧車輛園區但是它這裡面有提到什麼經濟部在過去根據自由港的條例16條歐盟 英國 美國的自行車電腐自行車 鋁製輪胎框部分的鋼鐵產品要先核准"},{"start":7426.121,"end":7454.899,"text":"本來自貿區你怎麼來我不管你嘛我加值35%之後我就銷美國嘛為什麼這些東西要先告訴我因為對方要知道啊你們到底這些是台灣自己做的還是從中國來的是不是市長自貿區是不是人家也在防跟委員說明喔我們現在對於自行車還有工具機需要說我的問題是自貿區人家是不是也在防你是是也要防嘛好所以川普2.0怎麼樣呢川普2.0這套自貿港啊"},{"start":7456.613,"end":7485.452,"text":"他沒有用了剛剛那個吳委員問得很清楚了他現在直接只要你的成分超過3成5是中國的就是中國的然而越南也麻煩了越南如果用中國的零組件加上勞動力台灣的關鍵再銷往美國也被擋所以會變成什麼川普2.0未來怎樣會要在台灣可能要找到其他像菲律賓零組件跟勞動力充沛的地方將關鍵零組件送過去再銷往美國"},{"start":7487.076,"end":7505.961,"text":"江市長,這就是郭部長的境外觀內,是不是這樣子?是的好,很清楚喔,來所以我們請杜市長那一天呢,星期天,葛奎帶著我們陳部長去他說毛豆,毛豆就是那個阿伯阿伯是賣雨傘那裡擺地攤的小孩啊"},{"start":7506.977,"end":7527.237,"text":"本來我們台灣的毛豆一半是出口一半是內用出口的部分七成到日本品質高的 細的一半的到美國現在美國跟中國開始打仗了所以我們的毛豆一樣可以銷美國但是你知道嗎美國市場進口毛豆最多從哪個國家進口中國對"},{"start":7530.427,"end":7551.759,"text":"中國毛豆不能來啦,美國是不是需要更多的台灣毛豆?但是中國的毛豆不能進美國,他會去哪裡?他會去日本所以我們部長說什麼?我們要救日本啊,變成美國啊美國的市場要把他搶了,但是日本的市場要救好掉啊所以我們貿易的關稅會有這樣的變化,我們看下一頁"},{"start":7553.404,"end":7576.921,"text":"所以剛剛舉到的境外關內有沒有可能台灣的主陪苗利用菲律賓在他的自貿區然後呢他的土地他的氣候的條件我們出口到日本其實這個是什麼在解決賴委員的問題啊蘭花蘭花如果我們到關稅要提高10%那有沒有可能菲律賓的關稅要低我們到菲律賓去做自貿區的轉運你同意嗎"},{"start":7577.608,"end":7597.234,"text":"不放棄任何機會不放棄任何機會講得很好表示我也同意也不同意看看可能再說我們往下一頁看我現在講一個部長講一個中小型的運載火箭我們屏東九鵬現在列為國家的火箭發展場址現在火箭做什麼用呢火箭不是打飛彈而已火箭打低軌道的通訊衛星"},{"start":7598.786,"end":7626.068,"text":"SPEX的火箭一次可以載143顆的衛星它等於是團客要佈建一個衛星通訊網要一個SPEX但是台灣是中小型的火箭像什麼 像小黃如果你要換更新 換修的要重所以部長你來想像一下如果台灣未來我們有很多的訂單要我們幫它發射運送到衛星到空中我們需不需要進口大量的火箭"},{"start":7628.099,"end":7653.435,"text":"那你覺得火箭可以跟誰買?跟誰買?那我覺得我們可以找這方面比較專精的國家買其實航太產業是美國到目前的出口大象過去我們只會想要跟他買波音載我們的國際旅客現在想辦法去跟他買火箭或者說火箭的關鍵的像火箭引擎用來服務那些低軌通訊衛星需要帶排灣來運載的"},{"start":7655.464,"end":7678.632,"text":"所以航運的市場不是只有貨運,不是只有民用航空,還有什麼?太空,再往下看。所以我們現在思考的是說,如果我們現在還在談洗產地,那只是眼前。最好的方式是怎樣?要瞄準產業未來的需求,提高台灣在這個產業的佈局。川普說什麼?川普說美國要再工業化。"},{"start":7679.807,"end":7702.908,"text":"部長你認為川普再工業化的意思是說汽車回美國製造 造船回美國製造美國從過去不知道的球鞋 球拍都有美國製造 是這個意思嗎當然他也希望製造業能夠回流到美國他的再工業化他只挑好的啦中高階的回美國 留在美國中低階的其他的有案發包啊"},{"start":7704.031,"end":7716.281,"text":"所以我們台灣能夠要繼續承接運動鞋、紡織品、自行車、筆電嗎?沒有我們要跟美國爭取一個它所謂的中高階的有岸分工就是你"},{"start":7717.54,"end":7734.177,"text":"波音客機有沒有可能有些領土建造這邊生產又或者說我要需要很多的中小型的運載火箭你的火箭引擎賣給我我跟你分工或者無人機產業無人機產業史神等級最高啊那是軍用級的啊美國不會讓出去"},{"start":7734.958,"end":7761.646,"text":"但是像大疆中國的大疆那種中低階的無人機他當然希望你台灣能夠接下來我美國需要的時候我跟你中低階的跟你無人機跟你台灣買我不需要跟中國買部長你同不同意這樣說法是的所以呢未來的產業需求需要資金能力土地跟工業好像下一頁所以有沒有評估好我們未來產業需求你去台灣產業全球市佔率的方案次長兩位次長你們有沒有回去跟你們部長講是不是要評估這個"},{"start":7763.522,"end":7782.152,"text":"是的 我們已經在進行評估我們也希望往高科技等等相關的產業發展好 那杜市長您呢 農業部呢是 就農業永續一定要做這樣子的評估好 那部長 莊部長這裡面的資金 人才 土地跟公共建設五缺財政部要負責什麼我下面舉一個例子這是一個台灣的離電"},{"start":7783.544,"end":7809.374,"text":"離岸風機他要本土化 策略上本土化所以這些來台灣幫我們做離岸風機的他都要跟本土的一些譬如說水下基礎他要跟他合作那麼因此台灣這幾年除了海事工程團之外我們水下基礎除了四季鋼之外還有其他的公司都在做他們趕快興建廠房希望承接這樣的一個訂單他是需要融資但是現在廠房不是馬上可以蓋好"},{"start":7810.294,"end":7821.952,"text":"銀行說你要有合約要有人跟你買水價基礎我才跟你放款結果廠商說你的廠房還沒蓋好我不能給你訂單那這時候卡在什麼那融資是要幫助誰如果這時候融資不給"},{"start":7825.964,"end":7851.245,"text":"他廠房蓋不下去這樣人拿不到訂單 雞生蛋誕生雞所以有沒有發現到這個問題當我們要佈局未來的產業的時候這些新興的產業最需要的是什麼金融的支持 部長你同意嗎我覺得金融支持是有必要同時我們會透過這個所謂的信用保證的機制讓銀行可以更有一個風險的分擔信保機制目前在國"},{"start":7853.069,"end":7870.812,"text":"發會那邊有個國發基金有信保的機制那麼要評估哪些產業要納入信保請財政部跟國發要密切聯繫好不好是的好最後三點訴求不好意思主席第一請財政部因應台灣產業受美國對等關稅影響短期融資的資金需求的方案提出來可以嗎"},{"start":7871.846,"end":7893.082,"text":"是好請農業部跟經濟部說就在台的中在中的台商他撤出中國的中國之外後去進駐我們境外關內園區的輔導方案趕快去想今天你想搞一個境外關內那麼從中國撤出來台商怎麼輔導他們去要趕快準備江市長可以嗎可以都市長也想一下嗎是最後"},{"start":7894.06,"end":7910.831,"text":"請三個部會去想一下在全球去中供應鏈的重組之下台灣的產業升級以及擴產在訂單跟合約尚未明確的時候它的融資的需求的解決方案可能經濟部跟農業部要提出你們要輔導的業者他們的需求然後請財政部幫忙可以嗎是的好 謝謝"},{"start":7914.482,"end":7933.189,"text":"好 謝謝嘉賓委員 接著請李燕秀委員質詢那主席在這裡補充報告一下 李昆城委員質詢完畢我們休息十分鐘謝謝主席 我可不可以請財政部部長好 財政部部長好 部長"},{"start":7941.81,"end":7970.392,"text":"部長其實宗家濱委員剛剛提出來那三個最後的問題其實都是產業還有我覺得身為現在執政黨我覺得接下來十年二十年我們整個產業的發展的方向其實是非常關鍵現在所有的產業其實都在跟時間賽跑所以到底這些未來的發展方向因應的策略如何去一條龍式的去做解決恐怕我們要拿出更大的魄力來去做後續的協助"},{"start":7972.213,"end":8000.993,"text":"這是我剛剛聽到我要給您建議我們也希望可以看到那些更完整的包括時間點的報告因為如果報告出來沒有辦法真正解決問題那不過就是一份報告對產業來說政府還是沒有辦法幫助他更多的就是說你即便給我低利的一些租稅的優惠或貸款這些錢我還是要還我今年不用還我明年還是要還那當然是要還但是他如果沒有營收的話他如果沒有訂單的話他如何去還"},{"start":8002.233,"end":8030.63,"text":"所以这个是在很多产业界我听到的声音好 回过头来我还是要问一下部长就是说目前整个关税战的议题其实仍旧是全球所关注的那美国总统川普的变动其实最主要的核心其实就是把最主要他希望的产业链包括制造业相关的上下游还不只是高科技重要的对美国未来生产有利的整个劳动市场有利的产业有利的"},{"start":8030.97,"end":8043.539,"text":"都一併回到美國對台灣來說當然不只台積電他當然還是希望台積電上下最好是整個都過去但是對於台灣未來產業的空洞化我們如何去解決甚至是"},{"start":8044.693,"end":8062.76,"text":"台積電過去之後我們一定會有稅損因為過去台積電是我們最主要我們這個稅收很重要的一份收入那這個如何去做解決恐怕也是要恐怕部長也要後續要有一份更完整的報告跟說明那川普也再三的警告說增值稅"},{"start":8063.94,"end":8081.318,"text":"也是屬於現在非關稅障礙當中的一環增值稅也是他所關注的那除了增值稅之外營業稅還有包括貨物稅的部分他已經認定是屬於關稅障礙這是他都在關注的部分所以我想請問部長就是對於後續"},{"start":8085.482,"end":8112.857,"text":"貿易障礙這個部分我們有沒有去做後續的盤點包括貨物稅這個部分比如說汽車業那對我們的衝擊是什麼你有沒有一份完整的報告或者是一份完整的數字跟委員報告剛剛委員所提示的都非常具有一些建設性那我想對於美方我們要去談判已經美方所提出來除了屬於關稅的稅率之外還有非關稅的貿易障礙以及違規轉運這個"},{"start":8114.588,"end":8136.973,"text":"部分我們分為這三大個方向那對於這些他所關注的議題呢財政部以及相關的部會都已經研擬相關的一些因應的措施提供給我們的談判小組去做去做彙整或者是說他因應他們在談判的策略章當中的一些一些方案好一些方案我想這個部分你有因應的你一定有好幾個不同的版本這個因應的版本"},{"start":8140.535,"end":8159.356,"text":"後續對於財政部底下我們業館的重要業務有一定的衝擊嗎你一定也有一二三你希望他談的最好是三或者是一嘛對不對那對我們的衝擊你有多分析給他嗎對你財政部底下業館的主要業務在資料裡面我們一定都會有一些相關的分析的"},{"start":8160.202,"end":8164.504,"text":"所以你是有答案的這個部分我們都會有運營各種情境去給談判小組來作為他們談判之後的策略我們的相關資料都隨時會提供的那你有盤點那是不是也可以給立院呢"},{"start":8181.707,"end":8183.93,"text":"因為貨物稅擺在前面目前我們是25%到30%降到20%是怎麼樣降到15%是怎麼樣降到10%是怎麼樣我想因為這個數字是擺在那邊的"},{"start":8198.448,"end":8215.289,"text":"委員報告我想這個部分這個談判的部分我們是有給經貿小組來做他們的一個嚴厲的一個策略這個部分我覺得這是一個談判的一個策略不宜在外面就是大家都把牌都掀得這麼亮的這樣子我想還是要跟委員做這樣的說明是"},{"start":8217.833,"end":8229.668,"text":"談判的過程我們還是希望有機會讓我們立法院可以進一步了解到底整個對於後續的衝擊會是什麼可以有的說明我們還是希望私底下可以跟部長做溝通"},{"start":8231.95,"end":8247.597,"text":"貨物稅要不要調整但是我還是要提醒部長賴總統在選舉的過程當中提到他希望2050年我們可以達到淨零排碳當作目標我想你非常清楚這是部會要努力的方向2040年的時候就要達到電動小客車達到新售的車子裡面我們希望可以達到百分之百"},{"start":8256.5,"end":8270.825,"text":"那這當然是一個目標或許是選舉的口號但是我關注到就是說電動車掛牌的部分大概在去年只有賣出的部分大概只有8到10%那看起來2040年要達到"},{"start":8273.886,"end":8297.733,"text":"無論是要達到電動小客車達到百分之百用這個數字來看好像非常的困難不容易那解決的方案有沒有目標這個目標到底怎麼去訂定所以我也找出就是說目前其實電動車為什麼這麼不好推大家意願這麼低當然有幾個主要原因一個是充電樁不足就是很多地方要設充電樁有沒有這個空間都有很多"},{"start":8302.014,"end":8324.069,"text":"硬體跟軟體跟人之間溝通的問題另外一個就是車價過高還有電動車的續航里程除了電動車續航里程跟充電樁不足之外這不是你業館的業務但是車價過高跟我們就有一點關係譬如說我剛剛提到的貨物稅的部分要不要去做調整等等那目前我們看到"},{"start":8324.529,"end":8347.557,"text":"无论是油车或电动车我们来把这两个车来做比较的话我们电动车因为我们把它既定为未来的目标所以无论是在减免货物税的部分包括免牌照税的部分包括免燃料税的部分我们有相关的一些优惠的政策在里头但是对油车却没有接下来如果我们在贸易谈判过程当中货物税要调降"},{"start":8348.888,"end":8366.205,"text":"那未來可能電動車跟油車的差距就會越來越大因為調降是全部都調但因為我們電動車目前它本來就有優惠的政策在裡面140萬免稅所以未來如果整個都調降"},{"start":8371.551,"end":8390.748,"text":"兩種車子的車價差距就會越來越大所以我們未來我也支持電動車因為對於大環境是好的對於氣候變遷是好的所以未來這一塊我們會不會有新的租稅的相關的政策在裡頭去落實賴總統的政策去落實整個國際的潮流"},{"start":8392.454,"end":8402.001,"text":"我想這個部分您剛剛提到的電動車跟油車部分那目前電動車的貨物稅是零那使用牌照稅是屬於地方稅我們知道地方稅是零這個目的也就是要鼓勵消費者去買電動車對不對"},{"start":8407.765,"end":8429.191,"text":"你說成長的部分那當然涉及到諸多因素比如說充電樁的充足性或者不講這個我都清楚你不用再敘述就是說未來如果真的貨物稅整個都調降但是這個會造成油電車油車跟電動車的差距就會越來越大會縮小我們就看不到所謂電動車的租稅優惠政策在哪裡所以你們會不會再研議把140的門檻是不是再調整"},{"start":8433.712,"end":8442.54,"text":"我知道您的意思就是說如果說貨物稅一般的油車也調降它跟電動車之間的差距就縮小了它的努力性是不是就變得不夠強了我想委員持的是這個部分那委員建議我們這個部分會納入考慮這第一個問題第二個問題就是說後續包括我們現在跟美方正在談雙邊的優惠政策的部分"},{"start":8457.233,"end":8461.955,"text":"那我認為包括未來包括後續包括稅損的問題啦對台灣未來稅損的問題也會有所以這個部分我們要不要趁這一次的關稅談判當中把它一併去做更多的討論當然我們要評估就是說後續兩邊雙重課稅的部分的減免然後對我們的影響對於整個財政的收入的影響到底是什麼"},{"start":8482.805,"end":8498.634,"text":"然後趁這次關稅的談判包括赴美投資的一些企業的負擔還有包括美國來台灣投資的意願我們怎麼樣增加更多的誘因可能這個部分都要持續的去做盤點這是我要提醒部長的地方最後一點"},{"start":8500.054,"end":8518.127,"text":"我要請教部長 就是對於國安基金的擴編的部分 擴大規模的部分我們現在國安基金的規模是五千億那我有看到就是說 無論從媒體看到 或者是委員會提案有希望提到一兆的理由到底對於擴編國安基金的部分 你的態度是什麼"},{"start":8520.229,"end":8540.08,"text":"這個部分我們持開放的態度那妳的評估擴編到底是優點多還是缺點多 妳的顧慮是什麼妳的開放看起來是比較傾向支持的喔2000億加3000億 3000億就是基金的借款然後2000億是跟融資 目前是5000億嘛"},{"start":8542.402,"end":8547.987,"text":"另外就是四大基金的部分都沒有去動用都是利用那個2000但是從過去來我們看最後一張表過去我們有八次的動用過國安基金其實大概都除了第二項以巴衝突那時候我們動用了1227億還有2015年動用將近200億其實都平均下來都大概在300億左右沒有太大的"},{"start":8567.825,"end":8590.794,"text":"沒有超過 除了那兩次 第二次跟第六次在第二次跟第六次在18衝突的時候還有2015年的時候其他其實平均我算下來大概都在300億左右國安基金存在的目的其實不是要救股市是穩定金融市場所以有沒有這個需求我覺得恐怕都要做更多的思考部長你同意嗎"},{"start":8591.674,"end":8619.866,"text":"我想委員的提醒我們會注意因為過去也沒有用到這麼多因為提升了很多國安基金的國安基金擴編的目的如果有需要你支持的話那擴編的理由是什麼你如果覺得說我們不需要支持的話那擴編的理由因為第一個國安基金就是我們現在台灣的股票的一個市值跟成立的當時已經差距很大大概有差到9倍大概市值差不多近72"},{"start":8621.847,"end":8627.389,"text":"所以整個股市不穩定的時候或金融秩序不穩定的時候才需要做這個東西也就是說如果部長你支持五千億的國安基金必須要擴編到一兆很顯然的你也認為在國際市場上或未來在國際的國際社會上無論在政經上我們一定都面臨相當大的挑戰否則依照過去的潛力來看好像沒有我們都幾乎除了那兩次之外八次除了那兩次之外都沒有動用超過三百億"},{"start":8652.276,"end":8664.9,"text":"國安基金這個部分我們的授權執行秘書在做操盤的話我想他會非常謹慎的去動用然後也視我清楚真的我清楚所以我才把過去國安基金的次數跟金額都列出來其實幾乎說有一次超過300億其他說2000年來幾乎都沒有所以我才請教部長說到底國安基金擴編的理由到底在哪裡那如果必須要擴編很顯然是國際局勢政經局勢有很大的變化"},{"start":8681.906,"end":8695.77,"text":"很顯然如果要要除留可見你們也對於未來整體的國際局勢事實上你們是有很多的壓力或者是不看好的好以上謝謝謝謝燕秀接著請李坤成委員質詢好謝謝主席那我們請這個財政部莊部長好請莊部長"},{"start":8714.98,"end":8730.373,"text":"委員好部長好今天主要來說明報告有關席產地的問題我相信卓院長也說得很清楚MIT就是MITMIT絕對不能是MIC所以接下來因為針對了美國要對中國課的關稅高達145%所以我們現在會啟動嚴格的反傾銷的調查"},{"start":8739.961,"end":8756.369,"text":"事先防備 事中嚴查 事後嚴懲 不讓低價傾銷傷害台灣的產業安全我想這個左院長已經講得非常的清楚了那請教一下部長這邊是根據你們所提供的資料在2018年到2019年有關於這個洗產地的違規的樣態"},{"start":8762.672,"end":8787.419,"text":"這一年2018到2019只查到五件但是呢這個2019之後呢到2025年的3月底已經有裁罰388件其中數往美國有133件超過三分之一我不曉得這數據對不對數據齁因為裁罰的部分是根據貿易法來裁罰那我們是根據經濟部提供的資料來做彙整的那所以這個數據是正確的嗎請我們署長說明一下"},{"start":8792.475,"end":8813.888,"text":"報告委員 精確的數字還是要麻煩經濟部這邊提供那我跟委員報告就是說這是我們同仁自己去那個電腦系統公文管理系統去撈出來的一個資料就是說經濟部如果有裁法 依貿易法裁法的話他會複製我們那就會有公文過來那我們是同仁自己去抓的所以這個數字我想"},{"start":8814.824,"end":8825.571,"text":"不夠精準還是要看貿易署這邊的資料但自貿港區我們自己採訪的我們是有資料43件43件好那我不知道經濟部這邊能不能提供比較正確的數據這個次長要回答嗎"},{"start":8832.5,"end":8847.61,"text":"我想請問一下,如果按照這個數據的話,有三分之一是透過中國的商品透過台灣,然後這個悉產地到美國有超過三分之一,那我接下來想要問人說"},{"start":8850.013,"end":8866.458,"text":"現在對於美國課了這麼多的關稅然後會不會說過去所沒有的一些產品或是說一些貨品或一些東西因為課了145之後跑到台灣的會越來越多你們有沒有做這樣的一個評估"},{"start":8868.821,"end":8882.871,"text":"跟委員說明其實我們對自中國的進口的監視系統不是最近才開始我們已經進行了很久了任何我們發現有異常的話我們都會注意到有沒有特別增加的情形"},{"start":8883.724,"end":8905.622,"text":"我的意思是說 你們有沒有去評估 因為課了145的關稅之後第一個 你不要從中國去 中國去的關稅課率比較高所以會流到台灣 或是流到其他國家去然後有沒有去評估說 有沒有什麼新增的產品或是種類有可能在這一波的關稅戰會來到台灣 然後再轉出去"},{"start":8909.171,"end":8933.172,"text":"因為這個145%對美國的課徵是所有的項目我們不排除任何項目但是呢其實我們一直跟業者宣導不要做這種洗產地的行為那我們對美的出口呢我們的金額也會去跟自中國的這個進口的金額做一個勾結那其實我們業者其實都是非常守法的最近呢我們也強化了我們宣導"},{"start":8933.832,"end":8963.016,"text":"像昨天辦理這個席產地的宣導就有600多位這個業者參加我們今年還會再繼續辦理每個月要辦理兩次我知道了我是關心就是說有沒有什麼因為這個中美大戰這不是第一次嗎2018有所以2019我們有修了這個貿易法那我們把這個席產地的這個最高的這個財閥提高到300萬嘛然後現在因應這個美中的貿易戰關稅戰第二次了那我在想說因為這次的力道比第一次更大"},{"start":8963.516,"end":8978.442,"text":"那就這個裁罰的部分那我請教一下莊部長好了就裁罰的部分的話有沒有要再提高或是說過去雖然最高到300可是都沒有罰到300這個部分裁罰目前來說貿易法的規定最高是300萬對那我說過去呢過去都有罰到300萬嗎有 它是一張報單300萬過去我們也曾經超過300萬有個案有超過"},{"start":8993.838,"end":9013.248,"text":"因為現在是因應這個現在是比較關鍵的時期那我看到你們報告有寫出來我的意思是說有沒有在這個關鍵的時期那你的動作可能還要再加大不論你們去查或是去處罰或是說是激勵比如說去檢舉的"},{"start":9014.409,"end":9025.453,"text":"這方面的話有沒有跟以前比較不一樣嘛如果說都跟以前一樣的話那就沒有什麼比較特別的要來對付說這次因為關稅有可能會發生斜產地的一個問題啊謝謝委員我想您提的是非常關切的一個問題第一個就是說就我們報告裡面過去我們是針對美國對中國大陸課徵反傾銷稅的以及301條款裡面課高關稅的部分"},{"start":9040.174,"end":9067.743,"text":"作為重點那未來他是對中國大陸都課百分之一百四十五的關稅那這樣的情況下會讓中國把低價傾銷或者期產地的誘因拉高到台灣來對不對那這個部分我們當然在貨品的部分不能再僅限於原來的那些範圍而是應該把範圍擴大我也是這樣講的所以該沒有一個比較具體的東西接出來就要把所有貨物都應該要擴大然後加強的查核然後不是僅僅對原來的一個範圍"},{"start":9068.823,"end":9088.224,"text":"因為他也不可能就是說全部的東西都來嘛他一定有哪一些東西他比較有可能利用台灣再轉出去的啦你們有沒有去評估說大概是有哪些的對 次長剛剛提到就是說在進口的時候事實上都已經有系統在監控他的數量上如果有明顯的波動的話那就會特別的給予關注特別的查查"},{"start":9089.145,"end":9104.332,"text":"那我再請教一下現在這個在野黨包含陳旭珍陳雪珍他們都有提出這個離島建設條例第十八條之一第六項提出修正案就是說民定大陸地區物品商品老物等等"},{"start":9105.673,"end":9127.373,"text":"進出離島自由貿易示範區就把金門當成是一個離島的示範區但是我們也擔心如果萬一這個條例通過之後因為它的物品商品都可以來到這邊而且是大陸地區過來的會不會有可能這個條例過了之後讓金門當然它是屬於台灣變成席產地"},{"start":9130.456,"end":9140.997,"text":"的一部分然後呢因為這樣子被美國認為說是台灣在席產地然後肯與跟這個中國一樣重的關稅"},{"start":9145.229,"end":9169.298,"text":"我想這個部分對於所謂的在離島建設裡面加這個自由貿易區因為自由貿易港區的設置必須按照自由港區的一個條例來做那這個部分符不符合那個條例的一個設置規定那必須交通部可以來認定那第二個部分就是說不管是在哪一個通商口岸、席產地的一個惡主的行為都是我們要去阻絕的"},{"start":9170.278,"end":9197.741,"text":"那我是擔心啊我是擔心萬一這個條例真的通過之後金門變成一個離島的自由貿易市場中國的這些商品物品進來金門之後然後透過金門再洗出去那等於是利用金門來洗產地啊那這個條例通過之後會不會造成我剛剛所擔憂的這個後果這個部分金門並不是國際的通商口岸"},{"start":9199.67,"end":9215.189,"text":"我知道啊,那可是他就是利用金門來做這一個他如果要到美國去還是要先到台灣來嘛那是一樣啊,那進到台灣,進到台灣那一樣啊就是台灣就是被克,如果被發現說是金門,透過金門到台灣再出去"},{"start":9216.297,"end":9237.969,"text":"那一樣啊 那台灣是變成洗產地的 不是一樣的意思嗎對啊 還是會有這個風險啊對啊 還是會有這個風險啊所以我就擔憂這個地方你當然不可能直接從金門出去但是有可能透過金門再來台灣 然後再洗出去啊我所擔憂的是這部分啊所以這個離島建設條例如果修成這樣子的話我是擔心有可能會變成這樣子的後果 對不對"},{"start":9239.653,"end":9255.937,"text":"這個部分我們希望都不要有發生這樣的稀殘地的情形好那最後我再請教一下這個有關於這個啤酒要反傾銷的這件事情我上次質詢有問過就是說現在財政部這邊審查完畢現在交由這個經濟部經濟部這邊說是最快六月會完成這個調查"},{"start":9263.75,"end":9288.419,"text":"這個按照這個反傾銷業者他們的一個說法他們認為說那的確啊因為從中國進口的這些啤酒他們價格比較低因為他們有很多的一些優惠跟促銷的一些空間所以光是一瓶330ml的這個啤酒在台灣他們所賣的價錢就比我們一般市售要便宜便宜到五塊錢就變成一種對台灣的啤酒業的一個反傾銷那我請問一下這個那次長好了"},{"start":9293.518,"end":9307.736,"text":"這個關於這個啤酒案的這個反起效調查我上次問是六月那有沒有可能因為現在關稅站那在這一個審查的速度上面稍微可以再加快一點是我們是負責有關於產業損害調查部分我們會加快腳步"},{"start":9308.704,"end":9322.94,"text":"那上次是不是六月啦?五月份一定會完成五月份會完成就對了,那就稍微再快一點因為在這個時機點上面,我是認為說關於任何中國的這個不論是席產地或是說這個傾銷這個貨品來到台灣,我們都要提高警覺"},{"start":9328.846,"end":9344.153,"text":"好 謝謝坤城委員在這裡跟大家致歉一下是不是我們到顏寬恆委員諮詢完畢以後我們再休息十分鐘接著請顏寬恆委員諮詢好 謝謝 特別感謝主席各位列席官員大家早主席有請財政部莊部長是 莊部長"},{"start":9360.154,"end":9382.194,"text":"委員好部長早部長川普發布了對等關稅對台灣祭出32%的措施衝擊全球經濟在10日的凌晨又改口將暫緩實施90天期間是實施10%的關稅弄得大家人心惶惶也衝擊了百工百業"},{"start":9383.922,"end":9410.504,"text":"我們的報稅計要到了那左院長在上星期行政院會上表示會跟你們財政部這邊討論延長5月開始的報稅期那會比照COVID-19疫情期間的模式那請問部長研究的如何這個報稅期限能不能延長到6月底跟委員報告我們所得稅決案申報會延長一個月到6月30那我們近日會辦理公告"},{"start":9411.854,"end":9433.812,"text":"進入會公告所以我想如果能夠延長報稅的期限在目前這種不確定性的時期會對企業跟民眾有實質的幫助減輕他們的負擔希望財政部能夠迅速而且具體的延長報稅的安排有更多的時間讓民眾可以來應對目前的困境"},{"start":9439.016,"end":9461.717,"text":"那明天行政院會議會討論新來幣880億的支持產業方案特別條例那也會送到立法院來審議法案通過之後特別預算會再送來立法院那請教部長你簡單的跟我們說明財政部知道的部分包含條例的裁員還有金額目前由行政院喊出880億那會不會設上限"},{"start":9465.274,"end":9470.578,"text":"委員報告我關特別條例的部分現在目前都在主條的都在嚴尼當中那同時在這個時間也去聽取產業的意見那對於有關"},{"start":9476.434,"end":9503,"text":"需要不足的部分看要不要再補強這個部分都還會再進入討論那至於880億的部分的金額是不是在條例裡面做特別的規定可能會在他們院裡面會再做討論那重點是在於就是說我們對於裁員的部分剛剛委員提到特別條例通過以後要編列特別預算它的裁員第一個會來自於稅計剩餘或者用舉債的方式來做支應"},{"start":9503.902,"end":9531.576,"text":"好 我認為說不分朝野都希望這一次的這個關稅風波能夠讓國內的業者能夠損失降低 降到最低所以支持產業方案是非常重要那要請部長多加留意 因為不要過於自信我要再提一次就是在川普還沒宣布關稅32%以前我們就宣布了把我們手中的王牌台積電赴美投資一千億"},{"start":9533.257,"end":9559.788,"text":"自信的認為說這樣子就可以避免高關稅但是發現了說這個太早亮牌太早亮牌就白白浪費了我們的談判籌碼外交貿易談判像日本韓國都沒有在一開始就宣布加碼投資都等到談判進行中才開始交涉那財政部在未來的這80天接近80天的這個因為大概4月9號宣布了所以在未來這80天要更加謹慎"},{"start":9561.289,"end":9587.245,"text":"那剛剛提到說不管是32%還是10%最後調升多少這些物價反應都是在我們所有包括你我這些消費者身上那請教部長中研院下修台灣經濟成長預測3.1%目標是難以達成你的看法如何跟中研院一樣嗎我想中研院他們是一個非常專責的機構也是國家一個智庫這個部分我想他們的"},{"start":9588.258,"end":9593.621,"text":"評估有他們的一個道理那整個局勢事實上都一直在變一下32%一下回到10%那未來會是多少我想我們的經貿團隊去談判團隊一定會為國家爭取最大的利益以及維護產業的國際競爭力會以這樣的一個目標來做進行那這個訊息事實上是時常都在變化的"},{"start":9610.61,"end":9625.705,"text":"那就我們政府機關來說我們就做好準備同時對於委員所提到對於需要輔助的產業我們都應該要有這個支持方案來給予他們的一個支持部長我在這邊要跟部長討論一個方案就是不管結果如何"},{"start":9626.986,"end":9651.608,"text":"所有的民眾生活一定是受到嚴重的影響那所以說好比在異常期間的一個紓困貸款一樣我們有看到財政部目前有研擬對於中小企業的這個紓困貸款但是我是希望說財政部能夠督導公股銀行研擬給勞工一般民眾的紓困貸款因為我們未來不管是結果如何都一定是"},{"start":9653.787,"end":9666.2,"text":"32%也好或者是比現在10%更高對於台灣所有產業的衝擊都非常的大那最簡單的如果說這些產業我們剛剛提到的中小企業的紓困貸款那"},{"start":9669.887,"end":9689.592,"text":"國內的產業受到衝擊之後 他們最簡單最常見的方式就是裁員 公司瘦身那所以對於這樣子有可能被裁員的這些基層民眾那一被裁員 他可能是一個家庭的重心這個家庭就馬上失去了這樣子的一個經濟來源"},{"start":9691.593,"end":9707.848,"text":"那還有房貸要繳家人要養所以我是希望說部長能夠跟金管會勞動部一起研議提出針對一般民眾的紓困貸款針對年收入較低的這些族群給他們一個方案部長願不願意這樣做"},{"start":9710.43,"end":9736.286,"text":"謝謝委員我想在勞動部在這一次的一個碰到這樣的一個關稅的衝擊他也有提出相關的一個支持方案在裡面對於勞工朋友受到衝擊都有相關的一些協助的一些措施那自己在金融的部分就所知金管會會跟銀行工會這邊會來做討論做一些寬緩的設施如果這個措施出來以後我們的公股行股當然應該依照金管會所訂的一個以及銀行工會所訂的規範來做執行是"},{"start":9739.893,"end":9748.077,"text":"請部長跟勞動部還有金管會互相的來做一個溝通跟聯繫是的 謝謝委員謝謝部長你請回請經濟部姜政次好 次長"},{"start":9758.891,"end":9778.783,"text":"委員好次長好次長川普在上個禮拜宣布對等關稅暫緩實施90天但是對中國關稅並沒有暫緩所以中國關稅高達125%世界各國都很擔心後續引起的這些中國產品的傾銷透過第三地、席產地這些部份我想大家都討論很多"},{"start":9779.483,"end":9788.832,"text":"那看來財政部跟經濟部我們看了你們的報告所以財政部跟經濟部所採取的應對措施大致都相同就是嚴格審查那如果發現違規就進行懲處"},{"start":9791.291,"end":9809.987,"text":"那我想其他國家也一樣都很擔心中國產品傾銷的問題不只是台灣啦印尼跟我們一樣都被川普課徵32%的對等關稅那他們因此印尼國內各個產業也都跳出來呼籲說印尼政府要迅速採取行動"},{"start":9810.928,"end":9825.416,"text":"那我相信不只是印尼包括越南南韓等其他國家都會面臨到中國產品傾銷的威脅我想請教次長說是否考慮跟其他國家合作如何維護公平貿易營造公平貿易的環境這部分"},{"start":9826.167,"end":9855.744,"text":"是分兩點跟委員說明第一點我們現在的進口監測不是只有針對中國的進口產品而是全世界因為我們害怕的擔心的是說未來會被這個科與高關稅國家的產品也會進入到台灣的市場第二點因為我們跟這些國家通通都有平常就往來有經貿的這個互動所以我們也是有透過我們相關駐外單位的同仁"},{"start":9856.365,"end":9862.749,"text":"去跟當地的政府去了解他們的相關做法為何作為我們的相關參考我認為說除了鋼鐵半導體之外我們更應該注意我們的紡織業因為就我們看到這880億裡面700億是給"},{"start":9872.496,"end":9887.09,"text":"這個工業的部分那180億是農業的部分那我沒有看到針對紡織的部分有做任何的一個規劃那中國大陸的這些紡織品衣服 襪子這些東西原本要銷售到美國的"},{"start":9887.731,"end":9913.079,"text":"那有可能因為這樣子的關係所以就會跑到中國跑到台灣或者跑到東南亞任何一個台灣是可能是台灣日本韓國這個都有可能那所以說原來像同樣一件衣服在淘寶買比在蝦皮或任何的廠商的這個資深網站更加的便宜甚至於半價甚至於半價所以不只是衣服包含生活小物這些東西都有很大的價差"},{"start":9914.159,"end":9933.232,"text":"那這樣子的話我們台灣自身的這些紡織業要如何生存其實這些問題已經存在非常久了市長也知道說這一次我們這些紡織業者非常的困難那如何能夠提出具體的協助部長可以簡單說明一下市長"},{"start":9934.292,"end":9956.855,"text":"是分三點來說明第一點呢政府所推出的這個881並沒有排除紡織業所以紡織產業如果有需要的話也可以來申請試用第二點呢我們也主動的去跟我們的紡織業者有做交流我們有部分的業者呢其實他是生產據點是在其他的國家所以他們也會做"},{"start":9957.885,"end":9986.113,"text":"產能的調度第三點呢也是一樣對於中國會進來的紡織品我們從邊境就會開始做相關的管制也是會做相關進口量以及金額的這個監測如果有異常的話我們會去跟這個會不會輸美來做相關的勾結有異常的廠商名單會交給這個財政部來做這個高風險的這個名單的特別的這個監督以及查核市長請回謝謝"},{"start":9989.71,"end":9993.886,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝快橫委員那我們先休息十分鐘"},{"start":10636.613,"end":10639.636,"text":"好 我們繼續開會 接著請黃森山委員質詢謝主席 我請莊部長 然後經濟部江次長 還有關務署署長好 請三位長官"},{"start":10663.618,"end":10678.433,"text":"川普提出的對等關稅已經造成了全球的非常重大的影響當然他的目的是為了重塑全球產業鏈然後美國優先但是目的其實看起來只有一個就是防堵中國"},{"start":10679.674,"end":10704.66,"text":"到现在为止大概防堵中国是他最终的目的那目前为止看到越南也开始担心洗产地的问题那表示说洗产地的部分在今天的专案报告里面我们也希望看到比较具体尤其是在4月4号的时候行政院经贸办当时杨哲宁的简报说低价产品洗产地违规转运是美国计算对等关税的原因是这样吗"},{"start":10707.369,"end":10712.714,"text":"目前還不知道次長你是我們負責談判的副代表所以您在這個過程裡面美國有把低價產品及產地作為對台灣對等關稅32%的主要原因嗎"},{"start":10734.208,"end":10760.221,"text":"就如同剛才部長所講的未來要跟美國協商的時候才知道但是目前白宮官方目前沒有把洗產地成為台灣32%的主要原因吧目前還沒有吧沒看到我們找不到看他有公布那個公式就是分子分母除下來以後再乘以50%所以我們是32%對但是洗產地並不是我們的主要原因嗎"},{"start":10761.601,"end":10777.031,"text":"不管是不是主要原因,所以習產地這個事情我們一定要阻絕的習產地就是他要關稅不讓任何可能透過轉運的方式然後規避掉美國的高額關稅剛講嘛,因為他要防堵中國嘛"},{"start":10779.482,"end":10798.455,"text":"好 所以經濟部財政部跟工會我們對原產地有一定的嚴謹的流程那主要是要加工在地加工還要有實質轉型然後目前為止要超過35%才可以算是所謂的產地可是大部分很多35%的規範目前為止對美國來說它有沒有這麼明確的規範經濟部"},{"start":10807.04,"end":10814.844,"text":"分兩點跟委員說明很清楚哪一些東西是叫做實質轉型哪一些東西才是真正所謂的原產地"},{"start":10819.144,"end":10846.093,"text":"如果按照美國的規定美國是由海關來認定它的原產地現在的問題就是它就變成是有一些是有規範有一些是個案認定甚至有一些可能是特殊商品比如說自行車要產車價的那個地方才叫做原產地太陽能發電機組的那個太陽能電池的原產地才叫做原產地所以這些東西都還不清楚是嗎"},{"start":10847.059,"end":10875.619,"text":"根據美國的最終實質轉型規定他會看幾點第一個就是名稱特性還有使用的方法是否有改變此外呢他也會去看單一這個產品他加工的複雜程度所以兩位首長現在台灣的廠商最困擾的其實就是這些也就是說從美國來說他107年駐美代表處我們經濟組的報告是說美國政府針對FTA的協定國家會"},{"start":10877.26,"end":10904.331,"text":"約定原產地的證明格式但是原產地證明目前是僅供參考看海關的認定那最重要的是有些特殊商品還有特殊的規定也就是說這些東西目前為止並沒有百分之百明文或很明確的內容這就是台灣跟美國要談判的相關的細節對吧接下來的原產地可能也是要成為你們談判的內容吧"},{"start":10905.474,"end":10923.159,"text":"我們未來要談什麼話要看談判的相關的所以今天到底是不是原產地的部分我看到財政部的報告是事前預防事中嚴查事後嚴懲對吧在財政部報告裡面確實是這樣事前怎麼樣預防"},{"start":10927.079,"end":10942.184,"text":"第一个他就是说他必须拿到原产地证明输出许可我们才可以所以我们台湾有能力去预防别人到台湾来洗产地的方式目前有什么样的比较具体的做法吗"},{"start":10943.531,"end":10967.313,"text":"具體的做法就如同我們報告 管務署應該都有嘛 對不對那未來我們還會持續的精進那當然剛剛委員所提到就是說我們這邊有息產地的一個相關規範原產地證明的一個文件我們109年就針對貿易法修正了嘛就是怕人家來息產地然後我們看到的我現在調出來的資料"},{"start":10969.134,"end":10996.121,"text":"財政部只管經貿相關的這個經貿區我們目前為止貿易法實施以後我查到了五年來罰了四十件只罰了一百四十萬也就是說針對息產地的部分目前為止財政部自由貿易港區管理的部分只有四十件一百四十萬經濟部你們有針對貿易法的相關裁罰有做出開罰或者是相關的資料嗎"},{"start":10997.133,"end":11008.342,"text":"自貿港區是由財政部依據我們經濟部是在自貿港區以外的你們這幾年有查過多少嗎總共查了744件如果說有財閥的話是200多件財閥的金額是2800多萬所以稀產地還是一個需要"},{"start":11021.909,"end":11045.529,"text":"如果我們要跟美國好好談判 這個部分可能執行方面也是要做嚴查好 適中嚴查 現在有一個可能性最近看到的是美國他把所謂的小額的包裹的800塊美金的取消那顯然應該會有很多原來要寄到美國的包裹會透過其他的方式來去規避所謂的相關的高額關稅"},{"start":11046.69,"end":11075.169,"text":"那台湾因为我们比较优惠我们五万块以下是检疫申报然后两千块以下是免税那这个有没有可能成为将来现在大家担心的是五月份开始这个一取消之后中国大陆的相关的化整为零的这些所谓领土建会不会透过小额包裹的方式转运到台湾在借由台湾跟美国还是低关税的状况下又是另外一种习产地"},{"start":11076.391,"end":11093.331,"text":"關稅署 關務署這種狀況會在你們掌控之中嗎是 報告委員當然我們這個風險都有在控管當中好 我想問一下你怎麼控管他寄到台灣來再轉到美國去省下來那些高額關稅那我們怎麼控管"},{"start":11094.432,"end":11106.741,"text":"跟委員報告,如同委員所知道的,我們現在是有次數平反以及我們是低價免稅才兩千塊而已然後我們有實名認證因為他那邊要繳稅,所以他轉來轉去轉回來,那你怎麼管我們有實名認證接下來我們要做的就是對於中國大陸進來的這些貨物"},{"start":11119.29,"end":11141.508,"text":"我們會監控他的這個流量實質監控然後看看哪些報關行哪些公司專門在進大陸的這種小額包裹然後怎麼樣看到他將來出口這些狀況的對這些流量我們都會監控前面要做預防中間要做查緝最後出口的時候要搞清楚不要到時候被人家處罰了我們都還不知道"},{"start":11142.288,"end":11159.185,"text":"好不好 關務署這件事情我覺得給我一個完整的流程跟我們接下來會怎麼做的一些有沒有新的方法如果這個狀況發生五月份以後的小兒包括大量入侵的情況下你們會採取什麼樣的做法是 也跟委員報告我們其實快遞貨物"},{"start":11160.319,"end":11187.933,"text":"它基本上是有總貨物流量的一個控制我們很關心的是我們不要變成別人息產地的工具啦而且最重要的是台灣MIT已經成為一個優質產品我們希望它是一個優質產品的代名詞而不是被息產地這樣子污名化的地方另外就是財政部世界官務組織其實亞太經合會都有推動所謂的AEO優質企業認證對吧"},{"start":11191.035,"end":11194.417,"text":"那台灣只有400多家的原因是什麼?這些是因為廠商不願意去認證"},{"start":11201.226,"end":11209.071,"text":"也就是說將來如果全世界已經回到高額關稅的狀況了所以AU的優質企業認證的話可以減少所謂的通關審查也可以讓優質的廠商得到比較優惠的方式我想關務署跟財政部這個還有經濟部是不是在台灣的廠商裡面怎麼樣讓協助他們能夠面對接下去這麼多的考驗"},{"start":11224.301,"end":11248.496,"text":"如果加入這些目前看起來我們承認的國家只有10個但是韓國有25個互惠的國家日本有14個所以在AO認證的相關的國家同意的情況下我希望台灣也能夠找到更多的貿易夥伴來協助廠商能夠協助他們有關通關審查的相關的作業"},{"start":11249.696,"end":11276.633,"text":"是 謝謝委員指導這也是我們海關一直努力的目標對 所以部長跟次長我希望你們在這上面協助關務署協助台灣的廠商不是只有給他880億給他實質能夠做得到讓他面對將來的挑戰不會受到這些國家突然間變動的影響我覺得現在的問題就是以前簽的貿易協定一個總統說話就不算數了很可怕 所以要幹嘛要在各個國家裡面都有相關的朋友"},{"start":11277.583,"end":11285.998,"text":"包括像這種國際關務世界關務組織已經有的相關的機制我們就要把它趕快好好的運用接下來最後一個小問題在這次的"},{"start":11290.138,"end":11312.699,"text":"習產地的過程裡面我們希望財政部剛剛講的明確化的部分還有經濟部剛剛所說的可能會成為習產地的第一優先的所謂被列為的名單你們現在有任何優先的相關的產品或者是名單嗎或者被列為所謂的高危險名單嗎"},{"start":11315.014,"end":11327.327,"text":"一直在做的就是301被課高關稅的以及反傾銷稅之前叫做高風險商品這些都是高風險的貨物那現在應該有新的變局了啦是沒錯所以新的變局你要有新的相關的"},{"start":11330.041,"end":11345.871,"text":"應變跟討論跟美國人他們到底現在關心的是什麼我們是不是要先因應像我看到院長下去很多的其他的廠商真的都搞不清楚現在問題是沒人搞得清楚所以希望的是經濟部跟關務署跟"},{"start":11347.052,"end":11368.937,"text":"財政部讓,不要說民眾,廠商至少搞得清楚我覺得現在很多連自己的廠商都搞不太清楚工會更不要講,打電話去工會,很多工會都說我們也不知道,要去問財政部那為了財政部,財政部說也還不知道,要去看經濟部,看怎麼樣跟美國人談我覺得這些動作可能要快一點,好嗎?"},{"start":11369.437,"end":11394.617,"text":"好的好 我覺得至少我們在短期內希望你們可以一個完整的明確化的原則給我們所有的工會跟廠商 好嗎財政部我想跟委員報告當然我們希望所有都非常明確但是美國的關稅政策您也知道就是常常在變一路數變 我知道但是我們就至少把高風險的先列出來然後給他們一些相關的因應措施"},{"start":11394.997,"end":11413.168,"text":"是好的我們把相關跟經濟部一起合作什麼叫高風險的那也只要因為經濟部也已經跟廠商在舉辦了你們平常就有在整理啦只是這次要把所有的東西再重新的recheck一次好嗎好謝謝謝謝珊珊委員接著請林思敏委員質詢好謝謝主席請部長請部長"},{"start":11429.502,"end":11447.789,"text":"委員好 部長好 您在上週4月10號表示說對於擴大國安基金的擴編 財政部已經做過評估 適當時機也會處理所以請問部長 您是否認同國安基金要朝擴編的方向來進行"},{"start":11449.605,"end":11464.402,"text":"委員報告跟委員報告我們其實評估我們大概有相關幾個重點第一個就是說目前來說台股的市值是72兆跟在89年成立之後已經達到有9倍之多了第二個就是說外資的"},{"start":11466.323,"end":11489.477,"text":"比例來說佔了四成所以整個來說國安基金是不是要做把它的規模擴大這個部分一直在我們的評估當中那另外就是說雖然目前是五千億那兩千億是以我們的股權去做持押以後借款那三千億是有關基金的部分那我們其實操盤手每次都大概都在這個"},{"start":11490.69,"end":11513.903,"text":"兩千億的這個範圍內 但世大基金本身他們也有一些用途很難懂所以這個部分我們都是在我們評估的項目之中所以你聽你這樣講你的意思就是說是朝擴編的方向來進行嘛因為市值已經比過去這個股市的市值大那麼多了高達七十幾兆了嘛所以這國安基金的規模有擴編的必要嗎"},{"start":11515.778,"end":11532.955,"text":"這個部分一直都是在我們幾個數字裡面在評估的項目中來 部長我們看一下這個我們的PPT裡面所顯示的其實我們的國安基金從2000年開始2000年的10月我們最大的一個投入的金額是1227億到了2008年金融海嘯我們投資是600億"},{"start":11539.221,"end":11557.243,"text":"到了前年,2022年的烏俄戰爭,投入的金額是545億,那金額大概就是說也沒有超過2000億,最多就是1227億,但是陳榮林剛才講的,其實我們不是以說我們投入的金額來做評估,"},{"start":11558.104,"end":11576.272,"text":"評估是整個因為現在市值已經股市的市值已經那麼大了比過去大很多所以到底國安基金面對這一次的川普的政策的不確定性對於關稅對等關稅做出這麼一下子這個招令細改"},{"start":11576.972,"end":11601.379,"text":"這樣子造成全國世界各地的整個金融其實就講金融海嘯也不為過啦所以在這種情況之下當然會影響我們的股市還有很多我們的進出口產業所以我們的尤其股市我們要如何的讓我們的股市能夠穩定這一點可能國安基金投入的一個護盤的一個金額未來會有充滿很大的一個變數"},{"start":11603.26,"end":11610.686,"text":"所以我個人是認為說整個如果國安基金的一個擴大可能有它的必要性部長你贊同嗎謝謝委員的這樣的一個方向我想是因為"},{"start":11616.329,"end":11628.416,"text":"國安基金的目的就是在穩定投資人的一個信心維護這個金融資本市場的一個穩定所以部長你剛才也認為說適當時機因為你過去講適當時機你就要去這個來擴大那你所謂的適當時機是什麼時候我們都還需要再做評估謝謝委員"},{"start":11637.589,"end":11661.841,"text":"還要再做評估所以我現在接下來就想問你啊因為你講說適當時機你就會去做擴編然後你要去做積極的一個評估那評估到今天為止今天為止你可不可以有一個具體的答案到底你適當時機沒有現在川普這樣的政策之下你就要趕快做評估啦你不能還拖啊你現在跟我講說你還在評估評估到什麼時候謝謝委員我想我們這個部分會再積極的處理是"},{"start":11667.4,"end":11693.589,"text":"部長我要告訴你川普給我們的時間只有90天在這90天之內充滿變數那您上週也回答說適當時機你們會提出整個這個國安基金擴編這樣子的一個方向政策方向的一個評估所以你現在要很具體告訴我啊在這90天之內有沒有可能國安基金你會做擴編"},{"start":11695.933,"end":11712.606,"text":"現在破冰要經過管理條例的修正就是我們國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例要做修正所以我的意思你這個條例什麼時候可以提出來還是跟委員報告這個部分我們還是會審視的評估部長不能太久啊"},{"start":11720.686,"end":11727.861,"text":"你這個還是要你要加緊積極加緊腳步啊好謝謝要更積極一點好不好OK好"},{"start":11730.319,"end":11751.229,"text":"那另外這個對於這個今天農業部的今天的專報提到說需要有效的防堵中國大陸的大蒜還有香菇經由周邊國家進口到台灣並要求財政部關務署依據海關認定進口貨物原產地的作業要點規定需逐批的來查驗"},{"start":11752.779,"end":11764.796,"text":"那在含送到農業部雜糧蔬菜特措協助鑑定小組來協助鑑定原產地我想這個農業部你不用上來因為我要問關務署那個關務署啊"},{"start":11768.442,"end":11785.338,"text":"我在3月20號的時候就已經針對我這個有工農跟我澄清說從金門海關可以放行攜帶3公斤的一個超過我們規定的1公斤規定這樣的一個情況會影響我們這個工農的權益"},{"start":11792.344,"end":11821.548,"text":"那當時我要求關務署你應該就是要在每個月把你們查緝的結果做成報告來提供給我們財委會還有本席來做一個這個了解那今天農業部我們看看在報告裡面就剛有提到這個問題了對於香菇的問題怕有息產力的問題所以今天3月20到今天4月20忙到了本席想請教我們關務署你的報告什麼時候可以出來"},{"start":11823.127,"end":11845.02,"text":"我們這個絕對會遵照委員的指示啦會盡快提那個報告署長剩沒幾天欸到現在還沒有做出來啊我們再盤點一下好不好對4月20你就要做出來所以這個議題就代表說我過去我所關心的確實我們怕有這個有稀產地的一個問題嘛"},{"start":11846.381,"end":11869.995,"text":"農業部也有提出相關的一個同樣的一個意見跟看法所以關務署你要加強查緝啦這應該的謝謝好那個再請教部長部長這個賴總統他講說這個我們未來國家的投資將積極的拖中入北往拖中入北的方向來前進部長你知道什麼叫拖中入北嗎"},{"start":11872.447,"end":11898.457,"text":"這個部分可能就是對中國大陸這個部分逐漸的不再做入北是包含哪些經濟體所謂的入北是包含哪些區域的經濟體區域的部分那當然就是北半球的部分嘛對好 那好 就北半球的部分嘛部長 目前我們的泛工股銀行在中國大陸的投資的總加數是多少"},{"start":11899.991,"end":11914.461,"text":"加速的部分就是我們公股行庫在中國大陸它有涉相關的分行或者是紙行全部都有全部都有八大公股銀行都有那加速的部分我們是不是會後再提供給委員"},{"start":11916.042,"end":11930.17,"text":"所以部長你覺得說如果托中入北這樣的政策是否就是表示說將來這些飯工股的銀行也必須完全配合我們政府的政策托中的一個政策撤出在中國大陸的投資"},{"start":11931.965,"end":11942.338,"text":"跟委員報告其實我們的供股行庫這幾年來對於在中國大陸的曝險情形都一直逐漸的下降以111年來說是2,601億那到114年的2月已經只有1,400"},{"start":11949.696,"end":11972.412,"text":"62億大概%是7%它已經逐漸降低但是我們的供果航庫基本上是服務我們的台商它當然會隨著有關廠業的有關供應鏈的一些調整來去調整它的佈局所以這樣一個拖中入北的政策是否會影響說我們台商在這個大陸的一個權益"},{"start":11974.521,"end":11999.551,"text":"大陸台商還有我們飯工股銀行在經營上會不會有什麼風險大陸地區的台商在經營上尤其遇到目前來說美國對中國大陸的部分是課高關稅我想在台商的部分他們可能會有一些因應的部分經濟部也在協助如果台商這個部分的一個需求或者回台投資或者轉移生產集體等等都會做一些調整對飯工股銀行的風險影響呢"},{"start":12003.432,"end":12024.917,"text":"譬如說在那邊台商全部如果說你講的都要去脫中要入北那這放公股它的獲利會不會就會受影響公股行庫其實跟剛剛委員報告它在中國道路的破險已經逐漸下降目前大概只有百分之七非常的低跟最早的時候曾經到高達百分之十是已經逐漸降低嘛"},{"start":12025.373,"end":12041.372,"text":"那他主要是服務還是我們的台商為主所以你認為偷中入本的政策是可行的嗎這個部分是一個國家的一個大方向是 好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝思敏 接著請陳一貞委員質詢"},{"start":12052.077,"end":12072.524,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請財政部還有關務署的署長好 財政部還有關務署的署長經濟部是下面 要準備好 那本席在這邊宣布我們12點開放就是在會場用餐好 那個陳一貞委員好 你開始了好 委員好"},{"start":12073.55,"end":12090.584,"text":"最近一個很流行還是一直抹黑我們金門的議題就是說我們這個提案在離島建制條裡面修說要把金門做自由貿易港區那民進黨尤其是民進黨委員會起心上下不但抹黑金門還抹黑自由貿易港區這個詞啦"},{"start":12092.165,"end":12095.811,"text":"說我們金門要設這個自由貿易港區就是要為中國洗產地要開後門我們都是到時候這個如果被懲罰都是因為我們金門要做這些事情我們變成一個幫兇這個帽子扣得非常的大"},{"start":12107.428,"end":12114.77,"text":"我們先來討論一下大家所說的什麼叫息產地我想觀光署這個署長是專業的財政部也是專業我們來看一下我們講的這個對不對什麼叫息產地自由貿易港區是不是會變成息產地的特區我們金門如果變成自由貿易港區是不是會變成息產地的特區我想這個東西帽子不能扣這麼大在李導身上所以我們也要先弄清楚什麼叫息產地"},{"start":12132.015,"end":12154.804,"text":"稀產地根據剛剛各個部會的報告也有說是將已接近成品的貨品進口到台灣簡易加工再把產品比如說本來是Made in China到台灣以後簡易加工改成Made in Taiwan然後如果對美國來講再出口到美國這個就把原來中國字變成台灣字這個叫稀產地第二個可能把"},{"start":12156.184,"end":12179.146,"text":"貨品進到自由貿易港區物流中心保稅區啊然後就違規他沒有做任何的加工他違規改標比如說原來上面貼的是中國製造現在把它改標成台灣製造這叫違規的改標嘛這個定義沒有錯嘛如果是簡易加工但是沒有那麼大的加工他把它改成改成地然後第二個就是說直接就違規啦他就可以改標啦那個署長這樣對不對這個定義"},{"start":12182.012,"end":12198.894,"text":"是報告委員基本上就是一個原型態的把它改標出去的一個是透過就沒有改變那麼大只有簡易或者是直接改標這個違規的改標這個都叫息產地行為對吧那息產地要有什麼樣的條件呢一個地方如果要息產地呢要"},{"start":12199.395,"end":12225.653,"text":"第一個 從大陸如果說我們要把中國字大陸字變成台灣字第一個要先進東西嘛進大陸的貨品嘛齁所以一個地方要先進大陸貨品第二個要有加工廠或是工廠改加工或是改標籤嘛要有人去做這個動作嘛齁一個動作嘛齁好或是簡易加工啦齁第三個要輸往美國嘛這美國關切是不能別的地方變成他的嘛變成變成台灣的嘛輸過去所以要有這三個構成要件嘛沒錯吧署長"},{"start":12228.493,"end":12250.364,"text":"沒錯吧 要進貨物進來要改標或者是簡易加工或者是然後最後還要把它運到美國這是美國關心的 這叫去美國的息產地嘛 正確吧基本上就是這些貨物是標示不實貨或者是衛福規定去標示就過程是這個樣子嘛 息產地的意義是這樣子啦好 那我們來看一下所謂自由貿易港區台灣現在有幾個自由貿易港區 署長六港一空"},{"start":12255.266,"end":12280.063,"text":"蘇澳港 基隆港 台北港 桃園空港 台中港 安平港 高雄港 還有屏東農業生技園區 這些都是自由貿易港區123456789 那個生技園區 6港1空 現在至少7個啦 屏東那是生技園區那自由貿易港區 我要講一下為什麼我們金門要修這個離島經濟條例為什麼金門也是一個港府 它不能變成自由貿易港區 關公署長你知道原因嗎"},{"start":12281.61,"end":12285.092,"text":"報告委員金門因為它不是國際商港因為它不是國際商港因為自由港區要定義在國際航空站會會國際商港金門港雖然跟廈門往來但是被定義不是國際商港沒錯吧在我們國內的法律定義如果今天是國際商港"},{"start":12297.057,"end":12314.852,"text":"那我們就可以直接申請啦也不用再什麼改什麼離島經濟條約什麼事情都不用做我們就直接申請就好全部按照這個法律嘛對不對因為它不是國際商港嘛雖然賴總統認為廈門跟金門喔中華人民共和國跟中華民國一邊一國但是兩邊往來不是國際往來啊是叫小山通往來啊所以金門的位置很很"},{"start":12316.713,"end":12346.093,"text":"很委屈啊你一邊說我們兩邊是兩國一邊一國然後這個往來又不叫國際港又叫小山東往來所以我們想要身為用國際港的生命力申請為自由貿易港區又不被准取因為我們叫小山東港不叫國際港所以我們才說那只能修離島建制條約要符合跟國際自由貿易港一樣的待遇嘛持續改在離島建制條約裡面修法如果今天就被認為是國際港我們不用修法對不對沒錯吧就可以直接申請嘛如果金門市地域是國際港是不是可以直接申請"},{"start":12350.134,"end":12373.243,"text":"是國際港就可以直接申請吧任何國際港都可以申請吧如果被認定是國際港啦這不是你認定的交通部在認定如果是認定的國際港就不用申請不用再修法對不對就是可以直接依照那個自貿港區設置管理條例去申請對就是說如果金門被認為是國際港就不用再修什麼立法建設條例所以是因為我們現在法律架構我們不被認為是國際港但是"},{"start":12376.017,"end":12390.555,"text":"總統呢 又說我們又是這個廈門跟金門又是兩邊又是一邊一國的不同的地區不同的國家互不隸屬我們又切身為名我們又變成是小山東港口所以我們才要去修這個吧好 我們來看看現在實際上國內的自由貿易港區裡頭有多少"},{"start":12392.877,"end":12408.091,"text":"施產地就這種違規的這個行為我有跟關火署要資料你知道財政部部長你知道現在自由剛我們提的那些現在還沒成立喔剛剛已經提了這些所謂的自由貿易港區因為違規轉運而被裁罰最多的自由貿易港區在哪裡嗎現行最多的在哪裡嗎部長在高雄對不對沒錯嘛我還給你看一下數據"},{"start":12414.574,"end":12433.915,"text":"金門什麼都還沒有做 給我們扣帽子現在高雄關 高雄關包括高雄跟台南高雄跟台南才是最大的息產地破口 以目前來講高雄關 高雄港跟安平港因為違規轉運而被裁罰的案件呢這麼多年來最多案件的是112年的48件"},{"start":12436.854,"end":12458.605,"text":"48件這是關公署給我們資料去年113年是37件那其他的關呢 台中關是零件這自由貿易港區不是指所有的管 只管自由貿易港區台中關是零件 基隆關是五年六件高雄關48件 台北關就是包括航空城五年一件就相當的少"},{"start":12459.585,"end":12472.978,"text":"那有人說是不是因為高雄港的貨運量比較大所以他比較多案件有這個違規情形不對以去年為例高雄自由貿易港區自貿港的貨運量是101萬公噸台中的是503萬噸台中的運量是高雄的5倍"},{"start":12477.441,"end":12496.434,"text":"但是台中的案件是零高雄的案件是48件是37件高雄關包括台南港跟安平港跟這個高雄港那其實整個來講這是你們給我知道整個來講我說的只是自由貿易港區所以自由貿易港區事實上違規的轉運的案件相對來講數字來講也是不多啦數字很少"},{"start":12496.914,"end":12515.647,"text":"所以自由貿易群根本不應該被扣上一個會變成所謂席產地的缺口的這種罪名今天先不要說金門就算高雄 台南啊 哪裡啊整個違規轉移情形很少其他自由貿易港區以外我們不知道但至少在這裡頭這幾年就四十幾件台中甚至是零件"},{"start":12516.528,"end":12543.954,"text":"所以今天很多人就把自由貿易港區呢扣上了一個帽子說做自由貿易港區就會變成違規洗產地的這種地方呢這個是對這些地區的努力的商家也是很不公平的對高雄的商家對台南商家也是不公平那不管怎麼講現在最多的案件也還是發生在高雄港所以如果照民進黨說現在高雄跟台南才是最大的洗產區破口啊如果照他們現在原則不就違規做的就是高雄跟台南嗎"},{"start":12546.728,"end":12570.377,"text":"這是數據是關公署我們問的你們是關公署提供給我們的這個是只問自由貿易港區不問其他全部的只問自由貿易港區的因為我們今天只提自由貿易港區剛剛委員講那個37件應該那個是華環的那個金額啦37萬不是不是來113年它是高雄關它是9件112年對9件14件啦好不管幾件很少對不對"},{"start":12571.843,"end":12590.015,"text":"就很少嘛 對不對自由貿易港區整個違規的形式是不是相當少如果這樣來看一年九件相對的數量是不是很少 台中關甚至零件我的意思就是說自由貿易港區它不應該被擴散一個會洗產地的這種標籤啦不然就是你們關務署查核不立喔"},{"start":12592.358,"end":12611.651,"text":"是你們查而不立還是他的違規案件就是這麼少當然我們同仁一定是全力以赴查查這個所以他的案件九件 十四件也好反正高雄台中關甚至零件所以整個的情形很好但最多的還是高雄跟台南沒錯如果以數據來看台中關的部分我跟委員再補充一下台中關他主要就是那個遊船"},{"start":12612.872,"end":12632.109,"text":"所以它的那個貿易額會比較多一點主要是郵品的金額比較高那不管嘛 郵船也有可能會被弄成不知道什麼都會被洗產地嘛反正任何東西只要會被洗產地的也有可能嘛有關稅的問題嘛那我的意思就是說自由貿易港就它本身的裁判案件這麼少要嘛就是官務處執行不力啊要嘛就事實上真的做得"},{"start":12632.369,"end":12649.816,"text":"沒有這種違規的情形嘛應該是這樣子我覺得這種一個自由貿易港這樣的經濟行為不應該被扣上這樣的帽子啊我的意思是說大家其實要理性來看這件事情那請問啊對未來這個席產地 假設金門啊我請問關公署如果金門哪一天變成國際港啊或者我們這個通過以後變成這個自由貿易港你們也會對金門睜一隻眼閉一隻眼嗎就讓他隨便席產地嗎還是也會一視同仁一樣會去查核啊"},{"start":12661.377,"end":12689.251,"text":"跟委員報告我們海關查核的依據是風險就是說高風險低風險我們有不同的一個查核方式也是如果在進門你不會查核嗎會不會查核也是會嘛對不對你再進門會不會查核還是你閉著眼睛多會查核啊經濟部啊經濟部現在你們所提出對不起再一下經濟部還沒問到經濟部你們有所提出的這個部長提出息產第五大策略你現在是認為這針對這個七大自由貿易港區嗎"},{"start":12690.868,"end":12704.701,"text":"還是針對還沒有 我們都還沒做金門港自貿港區的部分是屬於交通部所以我們可以加強做相關的宣導所以你們這個防止席產店五個策略事實上我們金門都還沒有成立嘛還不是針對金門嘛 對吧"},{"start":12706.121,"end":12733.974,"text":"沒有針對特別的地區對嘛好那所以呢這個不是針對金門但是民進黨上下把他講成金門那我想請問最重要一件事情來這個財政部部長其實最重要的不是只在廠商的這種自己的這種自律而已關務署啦關務署到時候要加強查核不要中國大陸進來要向美國的貨品要加強查核是落在海關同仁方面我覺得現在部長我想請問你覺得現在海關的能力是夠不夠啊"},{"start":12735.322,"end":12760.136,"text":"海關人力那很吃緊我也知道委員一直很關心我們海關人力的部分那我也請署長去盤點那看尤其這一次我們要加強查緝的需要多少人力那也希望委員給我們支持是我像你看你們基隆關一千人台中關三百多人高雄關一千人但是現在包括了這麼多事情的不管要加快行政效率或者是要加強查核我們這個支持 全力支持這個情形都是"},{"start":12761.699,"end":12775.986,"text":"現在高雄 不是高雄關 關務所的人力就不足你們是不是應該財政部要趕快跟這個全序部要求再跟人事總書說這個員樂部要趕快增加是 已經在盤點當中這個是趁這個機會的話增加人力 增加行政效率"},{"start":12777.106,"end":12804.388,"text":"那個增加這個查核這個所謂息產地的這種力道違法那個嘛齁同時也要讓老百姓了解喔金門現在就是沒有這個辦法我們也不會成為所謂息產地的地方我們也當地也沒有加工廠也沒有這樣的能力啦齁所以請大家還是要把這些正常的這個所謂這個貿易的這個行為用正常的想法去想而不是一味的只要想要扣帽子啦齁好 以上好 謝謝義貞委員接著請羅明才委員質詢"},{"start":12814.178,"end":12840.867,"text":"主席各位出列席官員大家好主席可不可以請財政部莊部長經濟部姜次長還有農業部的杜次長好選莊部長還有就是姜次長還有杜次長謝謝委員好 自從這個關稅貿易戰開打事實上"},{"start":12841.892,"end":12869.929,"text":"我們全國的企業大家都是非常的緊張不曉得未來何去何從首先請教一下中部長五月中手稅就要申報了現在有什麼新的制度變革嗎往後延了嗎那如果今年度有困難繳不出錢的可不可以往後延或者可以申請明年再繳"},{"start":12871.51,"end":12895.979,"text":"跟委員報告今年的所得稅結算申報會延長一個月從5月1號到6月30號這樣讓民眾可以在因應這個相關的關稅政策的時候有一個寬廣時間來做申報那為什麼今年會往後延一個月就是剛剛講就是說因為民眾也好或者企業也好會受到這個產業這個部分他們可能要處理訂單或等等的事情而不要再"},{"start":12896.738,"end":12912.366,"text":"一個月內即時也去申報那讓他有一個比較寬廣的時間來寬闊的時間來做申報那至於如果說他沒有辦法在繳稅期間內繳清的話那也可以申請延期或者是分期那分期最長可以分到36期也就是分為三年來繳納"},{"start":12913.735,"end":12932.749,"text":"所以可以延期就對了對 可以延期或者是申請分期那也不計利息這個部分不用付利息啊不用計算利息 不要加計利息的OK 那我想這是一個很好的一個方法畢竟這個關稅大戰也不是這些中小企業組他們"},{"start":12935.202,"end":12956.804,"text":"自己犯了什麼錯而是因為大環境的改變所以謝謝部長向來我對中小企業的支持我是全力支持畢竟台灣過去經濟的發展都是靠中小企業一點一滴然後慢慢的逐步的成長"},{"start":12957.785,"end":12979.367,"text":"所以你剛剛說,繳不起錢的,就可以延後,分36期,或者是說還可以寫個報告,利息也都可以不用出,是不是?這個充值的話,我們申請延期分期是不用加計利息的,對好,謝謝,那另外很多的銀行啊,會不會抽銀根啊?"},{"start":12981.669,"end":13000.118,"text":"我想在我們在參與這個業者座談會的時候許多業者都提出說希望不要抽銀根那我們這個部分也特別有提醒說告訴他們說其實在不管你在續借或者是在延期的部分都可以跟原來的銀行去商討而且金管會也會跟經濟部還有銀行工會"},{"start":13003.312,"end":13021.568,"text":"去做討論希望給業者有比較好的一個寬緩的時間來做那也不能是做雨天收傘的動作謝謝我們希望說的要做到啦因為事實上現在有很多的這個社會上很多銀行已經開始抽銀根了"},{"start":13022.452,"end":13038.648,"text":"那沒有關係謝謝部長剛剛講的那麼誠懇而且那麼有善意對我們中小企業的支持所以在這裡也跟大家宣布如果全國各中小企業如果受到抽銀根的情況"},{"start":13040.129,"end":13068.781,"text":"會感覺企業經營困難因為企業經營不下去接下來就是裁員裁的又都是我們國人又是我們自己的兄弟姊妹所以我們是於心不忍的所以裁委會也是一個很好的申訴管道那另外再請教一下部長國安基金是不是已經配合八大公股銀行已經開始進場來承接了"},{"start":13070.316,"end":13075.699,"text":"經過委員會的討論以後已經授權我們的執行秘書可以去做有關的一個覆盤開始動起來了嗎我想這個部分我們的由執行秘書來做執行已經在4月8號開會4月9號就開始在執行了看起來這個金額夠不夠我想過往我們這個執行秘書在操盤的部分是非常有經驗的"},{"start":13100.681,"end":13115.295,"text":"那如果說錢不夠可不可以把去年政府超收的稅額5280億你也可以部分先來推動這些你所謂的護盤計畫"},{"start":13116.82,"end":13117.44,"text":"現在3000多億計畫怎麼用?"},{"start":13135.405,"end":13158.45,"text":"三千多億這個部分我們第一個就是還債也多還了一些債然後原來要借錢的部分也沒有借大概1750億也沒有借那其他的部分會到稅基剩餘當然這個部分稅基剩餘要必須到決算的時候才能夠確定也才能夠去動用現在全民苦哈那我還是站在民眾的立場來"},{"start":13160.543,"end":13179.979,"text":"跟部長請命啊就是全民還是需要期盼今年可以一個人發一萬塊的紅包一人發一萬快樂常相伴一人發一萬大人小孩通通有希望"},{"start":13181.212,"end":13201,"text":"希望部長記住苦民所苦因為最近便當長得不像話以前一個雞腿便當大概90後來變100部長妳知道現在便當一個多少錢大概100或120左右雞腿便當池上的霸西坑"},{"start":13202.682,"end":13228.249,"text":"所以我的意思是說 爭取的紅包是要來補貼這些嗷嗷嗷代補的一般的市井小民我們真的很需要 真的很需要我在外面第一線跑 大家都 有一些家長可能家裡有兩個小朋友一個是四歲 一個是小學一年級他們覺得現在連買奶粉錢"},{"start":13229.571,"end":13254.705,"text":"都有點困窘啊雖然我們上次奶粉關稅有降奶粉還是繼續漲啊部長你知道這個情況嗎我想委員一直都非常關心這個議題對我還是要繼續關心啊因為民眾的反應我們第一線就要把現實的情況來告訴部長部長另外再請教一下現在銀行啊這些"},{"start":13256.448,"end":13280.709,"text":"你管得到公費 手上是買了很多的美債有沒有統計累積的金額有多少這個部分我想我們會後會再把它累總以後 會總以後給委員銀行手上買了那麼多的美債那如果他 央行總裁說他到時候都不計利息等於是賴債 就是有點像倒債"},{"start":13281.96,"end":13310.242,"text":"那你怎麼控管這銀行會不會受到波及我想大家其實央行總裁也好幾次在立法院不管是財委會或昨天的院會質詢裡面都有做回應其實這個大家都這麼在說但是國際間好像對這個部分並沒有太多的討論之所以美債是安全的這個部分當然這個我不是這方面的專家這個怎麼判斷你要不要告訴央行總裁總裁很擔心"},{"start":13311.655,"end":13330.421,"text":"我想您今天的質詢央行總裁也一定都在看他人沒來啦希望你趕快跟他講因為本席在一年多兩年前就誠心問過總裁說那這個美國派遣公債會不會有問題"},{"start":13332.759,"end":13357.889,"text":"他當初講他說他會審慎來評估應該是OK可是這幾天他的說法已經開始感覺到是有危險的美國公債十年期的殖利率不斷的飆升啊這很不正常啊好 那我再來問一下 部長什麼叫做息產地"},{"start":13359.168,"end":13387.923,"text":"過去一二十年來有什麼國的產品在台灣是息產地的或是你要請經濟部說明都可以息產地我想大概大家就是一個稱法就俗稱嘛也就是說它不是我們台灣生產的Made in Taiwan但是是掛著MIT的這樣一個標籤就是這樣子啊對那就是產品的百分之多少是如果不是台灣做的就叫息產地"},{"start":13388.825,"end":13418.037,"text":"這個部分經濟部他們有相關的規範好 請經濟部事實上現在目前從大陸從東南亞進來的物品很多都是半成品那請問經濟部你怎麼來界定誰是誰洗的產品有兩個原則如果它經過這個處理之後附加價值超過35%的話就是認為是台灣的產品另外一個的話就是經過加工之後"},{"start":13418.499,"end":13433.724,"text":"整個稅號的完全的改變這個就叫做這個台灣的產品或是標籤把它換掉是不是標籤換掉的話就是違規的行為OK好謝謝可是你講的到底算不算呢你有跟川普溝通過嗎"},{"start":13439.598,"end":13456.347,"text":"這個未來的話我們會透過各種管道去跟美方去做說明因為現在我發現即便那邊講很多最後全部被推翻之前有人說斬釘截鐵說最多10%後來出來是32%現在對台灣的課的稅次長你估計是幾%半導體的部分"},{"start":13463.909,"end":13482.404,"text":"這個部分的話未來會極力的幫業者來做爭取我想最重要的就是要維護我們國家的利益還要保持產業的競爭力有沒有可能零關稅我們要是談判的情形我們一定會去爭取產業最大的利益還有這個國家的利益不要撇了夫人又折兵"},{"start":13483.755,"end":13510.247,"text":"上次你在這邊我跟妳建議我們還有很多的籌碼包括央行的外匯存底我們買了大概4000多億的美國公債你也可以做一個談判的基礎以及所有的金融銀行買了多少公債你們手上有資料嗎我們所有的資料都有做萬全的準備多少"},{"start":13513.234,"end":13538.744,"text":"好 那我再問你一個所有保險公司這點你都不知道啦保險公司買了多少美元公債你也不知道我跟你講啊 加一加喔也是好幾千億的美元啊所以我們都在講央行 其他都沒算進去可是這些都可以作為你談判的一個籌碼是不是 次長"},{"start":13542.802,"end":13571.036,"text":"是 我們會 談判團隊會把各種對我方有利的都會納入考量好 謝謝你等一下可以跟莊部長聊聊他手上還有很多籌碼他沒有一次告訴你謝謝但是現在面對國難當頭大家一定要團結在一起對不對我們要口徑一致我們要團結對外來保護我們國內的所有中小企業人民的生存"},{"start":13571.598,"end":13575.079,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝明察委員接著我們請王世堅委員質詢謝謝主席 我請莊部長還有經濟部江次長是 部長跟江次長"},{"start":13602.932,"end":13616.202,"text":"委員您好部長 市長 兩個問題第一個就是針對中國電商在我們台灣的銷售加以限制就是取消"},{"start":13617.662,"end":13643.367,"text":"中國低價免稅額這個部分我認為這是非常正確的事情但是我要請財政部考量的一點就是說請財政部刀下留人的就是說要取消這個低額2000元小額包裹免稅這個部分我認為針對中國的部分取消就好啦"},{"start":13644.535,"end":13669.627,"text":"為什麼呢 因為我們其實有20%的金額是進其他國家 像是美國進日本的保健食品而那是我們國人所需要的我如果用一句話形容就是說 其實那是我們深斗小民啊我們小市民們的小確幸而已嘛"},{"start":13670.56,"end":13693.63,"text":"第一個金額那麼小才兩千元我們這個免稅的門檻是全世界最低的你看看其他國家新加坡南韓日本那遠比我們高我相信部長這裡很清楚新加坡甚至高達美金298元一萬元台幣之多"},{"start":13698.598,"end":13720.291,"text":"即便日本低一點 88美金也3000台幣而且美日韓其他他們國家對於這個小額的部分他們還不限次數而我們2000元的小額這個包裹"},{"start":13722.035,"end":13742.794,"text":"還限半年六次等於一年十二次也不過兩萬四千元所以我認為這個部分這百分之二十總額百分之二十的這個小額包裹應該保留這是給我們深斗小民的小確幸"},{"start":13744.451,"end":13759.576,"text":"那至於80%從中國來的這個部分我覺得這一次去取消去設限是應當的啦因為避免他們洗產地嘛這是事實喔 這是事實那"},{"start":13761.428,"end":13776.966,"text":"他們中共的這個貨品席產地這個情況我相信部長你很清楚嘛他們整個貨櫃進到加拿大到墨西哥那邊然後再透過小額豁免這個條款"},{"start":13779.673,"end":13805.311,"text":"那麼他們透過他們中國的電商小額貨美這個大量的再去進去美國所以這次美國把它取消就是這樣欸 那個金額多高欸460億美金欸一兆五千億台幣啦所以這種大金額那這個當然美國他們的考量我們來借鏡是對的所以部長我希望"},{"start":13806.601,"end":13816.225,"text":"在這裡面我們台灣的金額多少我相信你們很清楚我們台灣的總金額總金額332億這個小額的這個小額包裹的部分332億裡面來自中國的那麼267億佔了80%"},{"start":13837.267,"end":13848.053,"text":"那這20%我剛剛跟您提到的生斗小民 小市民的小確幸我認為這個不要去碰 可不可以"},{"start":13850.087,"end":13869.802,"text":"謝謝委員對於小兒包裹免稅這個低價免稅這個部分我們真的以審慎的意義那委員建議就是說對於中國大陸來的部分做不同跟非中國大陸進來的做不同的處理這個部分我們都會納入都會納入參考那你現在初步看法呢我覺得我這個講法是非常好非常"},{"start":13870.862,"end":13873.583,"text":"確實你同委員所說的80%來自中國大陸那這麼大的一個數量的話會對我們國內的產業其實也會造成衝擊的對而且對乖乖舉舉的"},{"start":13885.305,"end":13909.154,"text":"比方說國外來的電商我舉例好了新加坡來的電商人家在我們台灣在國家在我們台灣登記人家也合法繳稅也接受我們政府他被我們政府納管嘛人家規規矩矩的做那最糟糕的就是中共的那邊的淘寶不是嗎"},{"start":13910.259,"end":13929.879,"text":"如果他真的有誠意來 他就來台灣登記嘛他也接受我們政府納管嘛 這才對嘛結果不 他們不這麼做那很可能未來就是可能被利用為席產地嘛"},{"start":13931.363,"end":13954.645,"text":"所以我認為說我們有全世界門檻最低的免稅額我們才兩千元那承諾我剛剛講的一年我們設限次數12次也不過兩萬四全世界最低國外尤其自由民主國家完全不設限次數而且每一次的金額都還比我們高"},{"start":13956.373,"end":13969.321,"text":"那然後呢我們還有全世界最高關稅的保健食品我們的保健品的關稅部長我們討論那麼多次了百分之三十現在經濟部這個"},{"start":13976.806,"end":13991.875,"text":"不曉得哪一天來的佛心啦聽久了經濟部你們願意說你們考慮那38要降到20%我希望你們說到做到啦說到做到這個保健品我們全世界最高啊"},{"start":13993.31,"end":14017.651,"text":"連日本那麼高也才14.5喔韓國8%美國6%那我們30%之多這也是這一次造成美國跟我們之間要求對等關稅的原因就在這裡所以我希望這個你們一起檢討啦第二點齁那個江市長"},{"start":14019.107,"end":14038.604,"text":"我是針對你啦 你帶話回去跟你們部長講好不好你們部長齁這幾天有講了啦就是說如果因為我們這次跟美國在談判當中很可能我們就是要降低汽車的進口關稅"},{"start":14040.322,"end":14068.851,"text":"因為汽車進口關稅不但數十年來我們這麼高還加上我們額外增加的在美國列入的這個叫做不當的額外稅負百分之三十的貨物稅所以相乘之下等於加了六成的稅金那這個也是造成對等關稅的要求談判那麼這一點的時候我認為你代話給部長"},{"start":14070.509,"end":14089.316,"text":"他身為部長要謹言慎行我們國家賴總統已經講了啊我們先釋出善意我們願意零關稅這當然是包括汽車啊結果郭部長就說說如果汽車關稅驟降會釀成十幾萬人失業"},{"start":14095.526,"end":14121.754,"text":"那個 次長這個我四個字形容這個叫危言聳聽而且對事實完全不了解我們講高關稅政府的錯誤不當的是說你高關稅這五六十年來你保護了特定的國產汽車業者就是育農保護了那個阿斗我們是指你保護了整車"},{"start":14123.857,"end":14150.593,"text":"是針對整車的部分我們汽車從業人員有十幾萬但是你要分整車跟零組件的整車裕隆他們六個廠加起來也不過一萬一千五百人哪來的十幾萬人另外零組件他們才是真的人多的"},{"start":14151.772,"end":14180.103,"text":"零組件2500家廠總共8萬5000位民眾在那邊工作但是零組件這數十年來是靠自己的努力研發成長受到國際大廠的肯定主動來下單給我們的零組件業者你看他們做的他們做的"},{"start":14180.987,"end":14207.259,"text":"不管是汽車燈 汽車大燈不管是保險桿 排氣管等等啦等等這些啊 都是美國大廠 歐洲大廠你像Mercedes-Benz啊 BMW啊 Porsche啊Massarotti 欸 他們主動來下單欸因為我們做得好 而且價廉物美"},{"start":14208.783,"end":14233.583,"text":"那這一部分經濟部別人可以不曉得經濟部很清楚啊台灣汽車零組件業者是我們台灣的光榮台灣的驕傲他每一年的產值640億美金耶2000億台幣他們不需要政府保護啊今天美國總統川普還釋出善意他還說"},{"start":14236.463,"end":14263.855,"text":"這次對等關稅汽車零組件的部分他說要豁免他說要豁免啊所以根本不需要嘛我們的汽車關稅降低那是針對整車業者我們汽車零組件業者不需要這些高關稅的保護更何況我們輸往美國的部分他們還要豁免"},{"start":14265.353,"end":14282.406,"text":"所以這是兩回事我希望你帶話回去給郭部長他身為部長一言一行洞見觀瞻他講的話就是代表我們整個行政會我們國家的經濟政策產業政策天啊不能把"},{"start":14289.309,"end":14311.306,"text":"這個數十年來表現這麼好的汽車零組件業者拿來當作整車業當作那個阿朵裕隆的保護傘拿他們來電底說這個不能降降了會影響十幾萬人的工作沒有 只影響裕隆 裕隆自己想清楚"},{"start":14312.697,"end":14327.945,"text":"其他的2500家的汽車零組件異業者人家活得很好 活得很光榮不需要任何保護也不要被部長拿去當作禦龍這個保護傘可不可以我回去會轉達跟向部長報告"},{"start":14339.741,"end":14361.233,"text":"你跟他要求這個事情啦好不好我希望以後不要再講這個事情啦好不好真正習慘地的是什麼那個莊部長真正習慘地的就是向日榮引進中國的AMG車他把中國的AMG車化整為零到台灣在台灣組裝所以就是稱為國產車啦"},{"start":14363.781,"end":14374.71,"text":"這才需要高關稅保護之下所以他用國產車的名義賣他總共前兩年他總共進了3到4萬輛銷售額超過300億"},{"start":14380.354,"end":14404.731,"text":"結果這才是真正的習慘地啊我們要針對的是大金額二列的這個無能的阿斗帶給我們台灣社會的傷害而不是針對小市民的小確幸一個小額包裹才兩千元而且我們還限制一年只能十二次"},{"start":14406.164,"end":14423.081,"text":"所以我說對中國的部分百分之八十的中國部分我們取消然後百分之二十對從美國日本進的小黑包括這個我們要繼續維持維護生土小民的小確幸可不可以"},{"start":14424.602,"end":14439.536,"text":"好你多久給我答覆好謝謝多久我們一個月好嗎一個月太久了太久了差不多一個禮拜一個禮拜趕快做出決定好不好好謝謝委員是好謝謝謝謝世堅委員那接著我們請張祺凱委員質詢謝謝"},{"start":14462.347,"end":14466.38,"text":"請莊部長還有經濟部的姜次長還有農業部的杜次長"},{"start":14477.659,"end":14490.963,"text":"大家這段時間辛苦了我們現在共體時間在共護國難那個江市長還特別代表我們代表團去跟美國談判等一下有些進度我要請教你那我先問一個比較關鍵的其實這段時間這個談判引起大家最大衝擊的其實就是我們在總統說的從零關稅"},{"start":14499.732,"end":14511.202,"text":"開始談起那至少有三個層面影響會非常的大第一個是我們關稅直接會減損多少第二個如果真的是零關稅或者關稅非常低那對產業衝擊會很大還有非關稅的這個障礙我先來請教柏定 再見柏定關稅如果用從零關稅或很低的關稅去談馬上影響到就是你的關稅收入減少對不對"},{"start":14529.79,"end":14540.557,"text":"我們統計過113年從美國進口的貨物我們實際課真的關稅大概是7.5億美元大概247億7.5億美元你去年整體的關稅收入多少差不多1500億1609股尼關稅的收入是1609那美國呢"},{"start":14559.991,"end":14563.192,"text":"所以美國是247億我剛剛講是7.5億的美元在我們關稅的佔比高達15.38所以現在要跟全民講清楚如果真的我們的關稅歸零"},{"start":14575.838,"end":14604.214,"text":"對美的關稅歸零 從零關稅來算我們的稅損就是224億的新台幣了在我們關稅的15.38所以保定 你要極力也要試著要去爭取歸零這對全民的關稅收入影響非常的大在談判的時候 我想我們的談判團隊會有各種不同的相關的策略跟情境來做討論我想這個部分不是就像委員講說"},{"start":14605.234,"end":14629.184,"text":"全部都虧零啦好的談判就是有給有拿所以我才說你要給跟拿的同時你要抓好你要知道跟全民講說這邊牽扯到247億而且它更重要它不是只有美國如果是美國零的話零關稅那我們跟其他國家FTA那個會有很大衝擊欸最近我們光是跟紐西蘭你看一個先來"},{"start":14631.138,"end":14656.502,"text":"一個先來現在要零關稅進來對不對你看那個對台灣的那個產業就已經影響很大了對我們關稅也有影響啊所以部長我先問你這個問題我們讓全民知道關稅的損失零關稅是這麼大的那如果一趴兩趴當然損害會很大所以問財政部要盡量幫我們人民爭取權利另外裡面牽扯到一個比較大的這個進口關稅如果是零啊農業部的次長在現場我來問一下杜Sir"},{"start":14660.455,"end":14685.687,"text":"我看那個養雞協會歷史上有照出來說如果零關稅 聽到這個他們嚇都嚇死對不對 你有看到嗎 養豬協會也是緊張到所有跟農業跟畜牧業有關的看到這個零或者關稅很低都嚇到了我問你一下我們現在米啊米現在每一年從國外配合進來的米有多少"},{"start":14688.1,"end":14696.423,"text":"大概有14萬公噸14萬4720公噸美國就佔了其中的45%其中就佔了45%然後我跟你講 你知道我們台灣平均起來一公斤的米大概多少錢一公斤到哪裡 40塊左右 我們農糧署來"},{"start":14714.461,"end":14742.936,"text":"你現在平均一公斤多少錢平均白米是四十塊四十多嘛白米再加其他米大概五十米夠了米夠米差不多一公斤多少大概三十五塊左右三十到三十五嘛所以你看美國是大面積耕種他的米很多價格又比我們少那米如果進來你如果真的用你把取消配額我們現在用一個配額在那邊美國已經佔了我們的四十五趴了"},{"start":14745.646,"end":14769.798,"text":"配額現在是賣多少?一公斤四十五嘛配額內是賣多少?配額內是零關稅配額外四十五塊還有權利金權利金平均起來大概十幾塊所以你看我們台灣米差不多四兆到四十五塊美國米大概三十到三五他們配額進來四十五那你現在把它全部降到零關稅"},{"start":14773.259,"end":14785.516,"text":"那這完蛋了等於是美國將近30塊米進來打垮了我們台灣的50塊的這個米所以這米這一塊我明確的要求次長回去跟部長講清楚今天招信員都在米啊"},{"start":14786.499,"end":14798.483,"text":"不能零關稅而且價格不能太低所有談判都會以農業保障那些農民最優先一定要保障到農民的那個要不然的話我跟你講不只是那個整個米價整個被衝擊了我們30萬那個跟農有關係的到農生活就受影響了這就是內容喔我們的那個整個那個"},{"start":14806.147,"end":14813.169,"text":"整個那個農業會很大影響保障台灣農業最優先牛肉是10.10%嘛對不對豬肉12.5%雞肉現在雞肉傷影響最大雞肉如果是從20%以下降到零的話那就太慘了我知道大家主席已經站起來了我做個結論"},{"start":14833.902,"end":14863.297,"text":"我做要求三個結論 部長你聽一下現在我們都看到了 你看戴文老將 現在處境真的很艱困啊川普是從最高的32先丟出來 然後往下慢慢降我們是從零啊 我們必須要美國保護我們要表現我們的友善 甚至是投降 我們從零開始談你看兩個是落差非常的大的所以我們至少要做三件事情 我今天具體的要求第一 行政院本來我去行政院這個草野協商的時候啊"},{"start":14864.588,"end":14887.187,"text":"就說要提出一個細部的衝擊影響評估報告現在細部還沒出來在一個禮拜內給我這個第二個我們剛才講的我們現在全部都看到大部分都在講說什麼事我們賣到美國那邊關稅人家課多少可是我們國內現在人民影響會更大是什麼其實不是只有出去我們進來的時候剛講不是全部都用"},{"start":14888.428,"end":14910.981,"text":"不只不能零關稅關稅也不能太低要不然第一個剛講到的關稅損失的第二個對我們農產品對我們的產業影響很大所以這塊到底影響是什麼所以我要求第二個從經濟部跟農業部針對我國被迫要降低關稅這一塊甚至是零關稅你到底對我們衝擊有多大一個禮拜給我一份報告好不好這本來應該是你們就應該有的嘛對不對"},{"start":14914.224,"end":14929.083,"text":"當總統講說可能用從零關稅開始談 你本來就應該有這個東西囉好不好 一個禮拜時間給我這個 好不好第三個 現在還碰到一個問題 就是降低那個非關稅障礙貿易那個非關稅的那個障礙的影響那個衝擊報告也給我一份 一個禮拜 可以嗎"},{"start":14930.031,"end":14943.904,"text":"好 謝謝應該是總統對外講說從零關稅開始談應該是有的東西嘛市長你們手上應該都有對不對有吧你們不會打給總統吧應該有吧有齁那一個禮拜一個禮拜給我應該送過來我28號我們那個立法院的訪問團就要去美國一個禮拜內一個禮拜給我好 謝謝那接著我們請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":14964.266,"end":14990.281,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請財政部部長是 財政部部長備詢委員好部長 我接到任何檢舉我都很謹慎之前接到一個檢舉說我們公股房戶的董作 詐領公款拿公關費 採購餐券給家人用買營養品 買紙尿布"},{"start":14992.705,"end":15021.501,"text":"因為這個檢舉的內容太匪夷所思了因為我們工股航庫的董事長待遇應該不錯怎麼會拿公關費去搞這種事情但是任何人跟我提檢舉我就必須要處理所以我開始下去追了我發現土銀的公關費每年大概2800萬就工股航庫來講你有時候要去處理一些公關的事情我沒什麼意見"},{"start":15022.813,"end":15052.114,"text":"那董事長個人花的大概就百餘萬到兩百餘萬之間我把這些數字全部都調出來然後我進一步就請你們轉公股行庫說他是不是真的有這樣子的狀況請你們把他公關費到底怎麼花的細目交上來給我結果你們交上來就給我這麼籠統的東西那我進一步要求更細的資訊的時候土銀就不提供"},{"start":15053.342,"end":15080.923,"text":"土銀不提供 那我沒有辦法那我接下來就請審計部去查因為我不會輕易放棄的結果審計部查出來的確是買公關費去買高檔飯店的餐券然後沒有宴客的資料然後拿公關費去買營養品買嬰兒用品那顯然人家當初的檢舉全部都是有所本這件事情財政部知不知道"},{"start":15082.472,"end":15110.625,"text":"委員 之前的一個檢舉案我們有看到然後也請土銀去做調查是那所以調查的結果是什麼是查無此事是嗎調查的結果基本有一些是有但是有一些並沒有這樣一個情形譬如說我記得這個事情哪一些有哪一些沒有要不我記得是沒有並沒有這個情況因為我現在手上沒有照不可能記得到那麼細的一個事情是沒有關係今天國庫署的有來嗎"},{"start":15112.501,"end":15140.309,"text":"有事的我們署長有來國庫署知道這件事嗎部長記不清楚這我可以理解因為部長要處理的事情很多這個是國庫署的業務吧因為土銀是百分之百的國營事業所以這個應該是我們政風處收穩的所以是政風是直接處理沒有到國庫署是不是是由政風處他會交給土銀的政風來做調查是"},{"start":15140.765,"end":15165.321,"text":"那現在調查結果出來了嗎?調查結果我是有看到對那你們調查結果出來以後接下來做了什麼處理?第一個有一些部分其實並不是事實他們調查結果譬如說像尿布這些等等那有一些譬如說他還有檢舉一些譬如說他的父親什麼住院的時候什麼的一些很靈細的一個事情等等那基本上並沒有看出他有相關違規的一個情況"},{"start":15167.25,"end":15194.217,"text":"那奇怪了怎麼你們政風處查的跟審計部查出來的東西完全不一致是你們的標準比較寬鬆嗎我們有關公關費的使用像土銀它內規都有相關的規定的對啊 但問題現在重點就是有遵守規定嗎所以依照財政部的標準現在是有遵守規定喔這個部分經過政風處的調查過了 是的對啊 但我現在就跟你講啊審計部調查出來的結果就不是這樣啊"},{"start":15195.322,"end":15221.936,"text":"那審計部調查的結果我們是不是我回去再給他調出來看一下因為我審計部調查的結果我沒有我只有一個要求啦因為這件事情我如果沒有處理的話檢舉的人會覺得我好像跟被檢舉的對象有什麼特殊關係啊是不是不敢問啊不敢處理這件事啊但是我花了相當的時間啊去查這件事情以後發現人家檢舉就有鎖本嘛"},{"start":15222.95,"end":15247.602,"text":"人家不是亂講的嘛那你今天跟我講說你們的結果覺得沒有什麼問題但我看審計部的報告就不是這個樣子沒有關係我給部長我給你時間回去了解一個禮拜之內給我回覆那同時告訴我說財政部作為公股的管理機關這件事情打算要怎麼辦"},{"start":15248.843,"end":15271.917,"text":"是要認真追查還是這樣就算了可以嗎可以啊好謝謝可是黃國昌委員那個你查的是新的董事長還是舊的董事長舊的董事長舊的董事長記錄全部都在OKOK好謝謝黃國昌委員接著請林楚瑩委員質詢"},{"start":15284.353,"end":15308.009,"text":"謝謝美麗的主席 辛苦了 要撐到中午我有請莊部長以及我們經濟部的姜政次對 姜政次好 我們的莊部長跟姜次長部長 我想詢問的部分因為其實前面蠻多委員都已經詢問過那麼我就針對我現在想要理解的 來 下一張"},{"start":15309.566,"end":15325.718,"text":"我想其實防堵紅色供應鏈現在全世界都在清查自己在對美的貿易跟出口的部分那麼本席特別跟我們的關務署有提到那就是我們知道美國現在公佈的包括他們原本的這個現在雖然是暫緩"},{"start":15327.999,"end":15356.673,"text":"實施90天但是幾個國家在對等關稅的稅率當中像這個從50%到41%都有那麼台灣是32%那麼許多的國家像越南啦緬甸啦這些新南向的國家包括泰國的37%孟加拉的37%等等其實這個對台灣的影響就是過去我們當然也知道我們為了去紅供應鏈我們會有新南向的政策"},{"start":15357.193,"end":15363.179,"text":"那麼在這個部分呢根據本集現在所了解是台灣對美的副出口值從2016到2024那麼這8年來其實成長了153%過去大家都在問的就是說除了"},{"start":15372.288,"end":15396.223,"text":"我們直接對美的出口之外這種所謂的對美的副出口值在增加多年來8年就有153的時候到底是哪些物品又或者是說財政部或者跟經濟部之間有沒有一個詳細的數字因為過去我所關心的當然是我們直接對美的出口包括前幾名的有一些AI的"},{"start":15398.125,"end":15414.802,"text":"IC的電腦的供應的相關的周片零組件產品等等而這個副出口值扣合的是我等一下要問的題目就是這個進來台灣做了一定的加工之後再出去的這個更多因為台灣的這個技術上面非常好"},{"start":15415.222,"end":15427.435,"text":"我想問的就是財政部跟經濟部目前知道是哪些貨物嗎不知道也沒有關係那麼有沒有打算要做一定的清查來做交叉分析有沒有時刻表這個部分我們可以跟經濟部一起再來做一次清理好那麼經濟部這裡呢你們有去做了解嗎"},{"start":15438.391,"end":15455.159,"text":"我們回去跟財政部一起來討論好 那麼我希望你們壓一個時間點要多少的時間因為我們現在還是面臨著最美談判第一線在談判後面的後援必須要給足夠的子彈"},{"start":15456.239,"end":15481.545,"text":"談到了才會知道說到底有多少是我們直接對美的又有多少其實是算在我們這裡但事實上他從周邊國家我們需要說周邊國家如果他們的稅率現在是高於32%的那麼他就會持續的把這個quota算在我們這裡喔這個不涉及我們現在在講的紅色供應鏈但確實這個也是我們全球經濟布局上面必須要面對的問題要多少時間"},{"start":15484.246,"end":15503.012,"text":"是不是給我們兩個禮拜的時間好不好好 謝謝因為兩個禮拜的時間非常寶貴我們只有90天可以來談判來看下一張我想最近大家都在講這個所謂自由貿易港區又或者是陳玉珍委員所提出來的就是有關離島建設條例當中是不是幫中國去開後門來洗產地"},{"start":15507.734,"end":15531.201,"text":"前面我們要擔心的是別的稅率對等關稅高於台灣的國家同樣的也用所謂的付出口值來加深我們對美的逆差順差但是在自由貿易港區有關於這個違法的部分是不是法環太低那麼這個部分是不是應該做討論那麼現在部內財政部有沒有什麼樣的想法"},{"start":15532.267,"end":15551.883,"text":"市務委員報告對於自貿港區管理條例裡面因為管理條例這個部分是交通部主管那它這個部分處的是3萬元以上30萬元以下事實上是比貿易法來的低因為貿易法我們剛剛知道最高是到300萬那這個部分可以建議交通部是不是要考慮提高相關的罰則"},{"start":15552.864,"end":15567.077,"text":"好其實組織單位雖然是交通部啦但是我們現在全面所面臨的包括來自於國際上面或美方整個經濟情勢上面的壓力就像如您所說的他跟其他的貿易法方來說他的"},{"start":15569.199,"end":15571.48,"text":"確實新台幣3萬到30萬這個大家都會覺得說你到貿易港區被罰一下如果我可以賺幾個億我罰個30萬有什麼這個確實啦賠錢的生意沒人做但是沙頭的生意只要能夠賺"},{"start":15584.687,"end":15596.551,"text":"有人還是會願意這個部分我希望財政部經濟部跟交通部在這個部分我們在罰則的部分也必須要好好的一起來做一個通盤的檢討因為現在就是在我們面臨關稅談判的最前線的最後關鍵90天最後有一個來下一張我趕快的來講一下因為我們即將在立法院有一個跨黨派的訪問團包括我在內我們也都要到華府去當我們面對"},{"start":15612.897,"end":15638.676,"text":"外國的國會議員的時候他們只有一句話那就是你的立法院你所訂定的法規到底是協助中國席產地還是我們的法規是要杜絕中國席產地我在國防外交委員會的時候其實我質詢過江正次了次長會認為現在的國民黨所提出來的離島建設條例他們沒有打算要撤喔但是我也知道說實話啦"},{"start":15640.057,"end":15663.522,"text":"部長我現在不在財委會啦你要面對的這個提案人是在我們財委會的委員你可能不好說但是我就先問你離島建設條例為什麼會特別提出來就是因為金門它本身就不是一個國際港所以它無法用我們自由貿易港區對不對所以它現在另外提了這條我只問如果現在這個法案在立法院如果今天"},{"start":15664.982,"end":15680.788,"text":"財政部你不表態現在的立法院就是藍白會過多數他說今天明天議會說要拿出來表決就可以過喔所以我想問財政部的立場這樣的法案有沒有習產地的疑慮如果今天我遇到了美國的國會議員"},{"start":15682.589,"end":15704.182,"text":"我要怎麼轉達我們財政部經濟部的說法我要告訴他的是說現在的立法院就是藍白戰多數所以這種法案就是可以在金門過關可以大大地說我幫大陸地區的人民法人團體機構資金物品商品勞務跟服務他能夠政府適度地給相關的鬆綁會不會鬆綁這樣的法規請問財政部經濟部怎麼看要不要給鬆綁"},{"start":15712.003,"end":15725.089,"text":"這次在談判裡面有關違規轉運的部分還有出口管制是非常重要的一個談判的一個關鍵點我想這個部分要非常的注意所以政府會不會給大陸地區也是中國適度的鬆綁 會嗎"},{"start":15728.37,"end":15741.095,"text":"怎麼會對中國大陸來鬆綁呢因為他們被美國課徵145%的那個不是我是說他會進來台灣啊就是因為他課了145啊台灣現在目前是10啊那我們會加強的查核啊好會加強的查核經濟部也是嗎"},{"start":15748.158,"end":15759.148,"text":"所以本席見到美國的國會議員的時候我可以請他放心立法院雖然民進黨現在不是多數但是至少我們的中央政府會守住這種法案我們是堅決反對的不敢講喔那這樣子我跟兩位報告我們前方談判前方吃緊後方緊吃啊"},{"start":15771.206,"end":15782.51,"text":"很麻煩啊不會的我想大家我們會是談判團隊的最後的一個最好的後盾好絕對不會讓中國習產地至少這個話你們講得出來吧來部長會讓中國習產地嗎我們一定要努力的阻絕這樣習產地的行為好正次呢我們也不容許這樣的行為發生好謝謝好謝謝謝謝楚英委員接著請徐護魁委員質詢"},{"start":15805.163,"end":15809.605,"text":"謝主席 有請我們財政部莊部長經濟部姜政次還有國貿署副署長是國貿署副署長"},{"start":15824.421,"end":15842.63,"text":"部長好 三位好我想今天主要是針對中國大陸產品低價傾銷還有透過台灣吸產地一個問題我想本席也要提出最近我們一直在追的一個案子就是有關於中國啤酒大量傾銷來台灣的一個疑慮"},{"start":15845.211,"end":15853.478,"text":"那我想部長可以從這個圖示上的一個資料我們這個國產啤酒的市占率從2017年的65%降到2024年只有剩下47.8%反觀中國大陸的啤酒在台灣的進口從這個2015年的20"},{"start":15866.708,"end":15890.582,"text":"6%到目前為止足足成長了5倍到已經變成32%那我想這樣子的一個進口出口的一個狀況可以顯示這個中共這邊他們用國家的一個力量大量支持他們的啤酒的一個產業然後用大量傾銷的方式到台灣來那尤其我們自己在鄉下發現很多的這個雜貨店還有檳榔攤"},{"start":15893.143,"end":15913.713,"text":"都是佈滿他們的廣告他們的廣告不會寫說是大陸啤酒他們用百威 用Kirimba 用雪山這些名稱好像看起來是外國啤酒事實上全部都是產自於中國大陸這非常非常的危險而且他們每一瓶的單價都比我們國產啤酒還便宜那依我們調出來的資料"},{"start":15915.014,"end":15920.475,"text":"我們2024年中國啤酒內銷的單價是台幣23.94元當然國產啤酒這個單價我們是高達43.93元銷價的幅度高達45%所以我想一個價差的落差會造成我們很多的鄉親這個當然是選擇便宜的啤酒來飲用"},{"start":15937.279,"end":15950.291,"text":"但是這個就造成我們一個台灣一個很嚴重的一個國安危機那部長我想這個案子相關的業者他們也提出一個反傾銷的一個案子那財政部這個目前的處理進度請部長說明一下"},{"start":15951.701,"end":15968.274,"text":"對於中國大陸產製的進口啤酒已經由我們台灣的釀酒商協會提出申請然後申請反傾銷調查目前已經是由經濟部和財政部一起在調查當中那調查結果以後只要有傾銷的事實而且影響到國內的產業的話那麼就我們會提送到我們的關稅稅率審議小組來做審議那如果有這樣的一個情況就可以"},{"start":15977.08,"end":15991.902,"text":"合格初步的臨時課徵反請銷稅就可以做這個部長你們有沒有其他的外在壓力沒有啊 沒有啦 該怎麼做就怎麼做啊我們就是公平來調查嘛 當然要進行相關的調查是"},{"start":15992.472,"end":16022.055,"text":"那我想除了我們這個展開一個反傾銷的一個調查之外那我想本席這邊也期望我們當然還是要增加我們國內產業的一個競爭力那所以本席有針對因為過去我們這個主要我們台灣針對這個麥芽也好啤酒花也好栽種的面積有限那所以我想我們很多都仰賴進口但是這個總是有一個關稅的一個壓力那本席也提出了一個啤酒花關稅調降到齡的一個案子"},{"start":16022.515,"end":16049.949,"text":"那部長財政部這邊是不是會來支持這樣的一個增加國內產業競爭力的提案對於有關啤酒的產業裡面主要的一個原料是啤酒花跟麥芽那這部分那是不是要進口調降關稅的部分目前我們也還在研議當中是也要了解它實際上會不會有什麼樣的影響部長那這個大概多久時間可以給本席一個報告"},{"start":16051.769,"end":16073.059,"text":"這個部分我們是不是可以再這樣的話我們是不是再兩個月給委員一個報告好那就兩個月好謝謝委員謝謝那另外我想我剛剛特別提到這個中國的啤酒他們藉著這個Kirimba還有雪山還有這個甚至是不一樣的進口品牌來這個進口"},{"start":16075.72,"end":16098.03,"text":"那官網又特別打出了一個台灣原創的一個品牌實在是匪夷所思那更遺憾的是台北市政府在調查的時候竟然還包庇這個竟然查不出一個具體的一個成果讓我們非常遺憾那部長我想你在我們這個圖示上面從九類標示的管理辦法第13條上面的第一款就有特別提到"},{"start":16098.53,"end":16125.143,"text":"所謂一個地理標示他就是必須要足以證明該來源是該商品的原產地而且應該也符合各該地區的一個國家的一個規定那我想寫得那麼清楚那部長站在主管機關我們可以放任地方政府這樣混淆一個產品的販售嗎不可以剛剛其實委員講的像剛剛幾款那個啤酒他不就是把那個外面譬如說"},{"start":16126.199,"end":16146.277,"text":"飆上宜蘭的蔥、蔥油餅、黑鮪魚等等那這個部分造成消費者的混淆所以這個部分依照管理辦法我們財政部的國庫署已經發解釋函令地方政府要確實好好的查而且不能有混淆的情況什麼時候調查的報告會拿到"},{"start":16149.853,"end":16173.711,"text":"這個我們解釋函令已經發下去了,是不是署長可以說明一下是,跟委員報告,剛剛我們部長講的一些那種足以讓消費者混淆誤以為原產地不是在台灣的這樣的一個誤認的事實的話我們這個解釋令,也就是說不管是酒的包裝或者是廣告都不能有這樣的情形,那這個解釋令已經發了"},{"start":16175.668,"end":16180.834,"text":"但是我們執行面有問題啊那這個部分的話地方政府他們會依據我們的解釋令去落實執行"},{"start":16189.332,"end":16212.941,"text":"我希望還是財政部要再緊追啦這個部份要緊追而且也要求地方政府要有相關的進度基查的進度要回報回來好是好那最後一個我想針對農產品息產力的部分還是要請我們相關單位做好準備尤其這個我們現在關稅的競爭之後很多我們的農業產品很可能變成這個中國的一個息產力的一個"},{"start":16214.221,"end":16230.844,"text":"出口的一個很重要的一個要件那所以這部分我們過去的一個裁罰基準是不是有應該要做提升甚至做有效的管制我想這個請相關單位再做好研議謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝副科委委員謝謝那接著請陳冠廷委員質詢你好我們請部長財政部部長"},{"start":16249.372,"end":16275.747,"text":"委員好部長好部長我們今天針對反傾銷的調查的效率我們是非常重視的原因是因為我們擔心中國會用補貼或者用便宜去化的這個大量出口美國的貨品然後來傾銷到台灣那為了要做這些事情署長是不是可以請你提供過去三年財政部負責的傾銷事實調查階段從案件受理到完成"},{"start":16276.667,"end":16305.013,"text":"到完成的平均處理的市場大概是怎麼樣是不是有逐年縮短這個趨勢相較於其他國家的效率我們的表現是如何我想這樣的一個程序是WTO相關都有規定的一個程序那我們在我們報告裡面提到事實上我們目前來說已經採取反擊銷售是總共有十件八件都是中國大陸的一個產品那我不知道委員您是要過去三年的一個資料是不是"},{"start":16305.475,"end":16319.903,"text":"我首先要在我們口頭諮詢的時候我要知道趨勢那接下來再請書面給我們資料你說趨勢是那個量的一個成長的一個狀況我們是說趨勢的平均逐年時長是不是有逐年縮短時間是吧"},{"start":16321.764,"end":16332.567,"text":"時間這個部分的話因為他一定要有一定的一個階段那我們都會在這個階段裡面如果除非有特別必要才給延期大概時間大概都需要將近一年的時間所以如果在這個過程當中我們要怎麼樣去面對這些挑戰就是市場如果是這樣子的話"},{"start":16344.949,"end":16371.595,"text":"這個過程當中一個經濟部會去做調查還有財政部也會去做調查那調查結果會事實上會在我們的關稅稅率審議小組裡面去做討論然後才認定以後來給予相關的課徵反請銷稅好謝謝那第二個部分那個是針對我們地區我們嘉義高山茶它是一個很特色的農產品那我們擔心說這個這邊農業部不好意思請農業部的官員"},{"start":16381.239,"end":16398.751,"text":"我們擔心關於境外茶混沖的問題當然農業部已經在1、2年有實施國產茶的強制溯源的狀況但是還是有偽冒產地的問題還有很嚴重的去侵害到我們農民的利益還有我們台灣農業的生育"},{"start":16400.632,"end":16414.336,"text":"目前鑑定的科學技術應用於市售通路市售通路的產地抽驗這樣子的頻率或者是說範圍有沒有產生足夠的嚇阻效果"},{"start":16416.124,"end":16435.747,"text":"就那個檢驗的方法公告之後其實不只是在比賽茶各通路還有就是只要標示是台灣茶就一定要是台灣茶那如果其他有拼配或是有其他那就不能用那現在的方法在不管是在市售通路賣場或是在比賽的狀況其實都已經有大幅改善那"},{"start":16436.331,"end":16460.65,"text":"我們現在還有聽到說有DNA的這個檢驗技術它已經慢慢的普及了現在有這個趨勢嗎目前我們茶葉檢定方法還是以這個同位數微量同位數的方式因為它相對敏感跟整個資料庫是完整的那哪一個就是你剛剛提到的跟我們現在講的這樣子哪一個的檢驗成本會比較低廉或者是考量性價比的話是"},{"start":16462.074,"end":16486.423,"text":"應該這樣說啦其實對我們來講讓能夠掛上台灣茶國產茶的這個品牌其實是必要的所以我們其實當初在開發方式是以它的準確跟可行可行可推廣使用的方式來做目前用起來其實是都還算是在普及率或是在它的特異性敏感性正確性其實都有蠻好的結果"},{"start":16486.923,"end":16512.301,"text":"那對於防範那些偽餐的或是冒用的其實也有很好的成果那現在我們主要的這個境外茶來去混應該是說中國現在根據你們的報告已經我們禁止中國茶葉的進口現在主要是來自第三地的進口茶葉來去混應該是哪一個國家為主東南亞是越南有一些但是他就要標示他的原產地"},{"start":16513.622,"end":16530.636,"text":"還是希望說我們剛剛講那麼多不管是在這個檢測或者是說在它的範圍等等如果能夠可以把它的這個能源資源更放下去那確保說我們這些重點的茶葉能夠被守護住謝謝委員支持台灣農業 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝冠廷委員"},{"start":16537.076,"end":16555.606,"text":"那接著我們請鄭振權 鄭振權 鄭振權委員不在鄭天才 鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在王宏威 王宏威 王宏威委員不在黃婕 黃婕 黃婕委員不在邱志偉 邱志偉 邱志偉委員不在"},{"start":16557.307,"end":16583.755,"text":"楊瓊英 楊瓊英 楊瓊英 我言不在洪孟楷 洪孟楷 洪孟楷 我言不在蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉 我言不在蔡玉瑜 蔡玉瑜 蔡玉瑜 我言不在劉喜婷 劉喜婷 劉喜婷 我言不在葉延芝 葉延芝 葉延芝 我言不在何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳 我言不在好"},{"start":16586.277,"end":16607.813,"text":"今天登記花園的委員 經已詢答完畢本日會議作如下的一個決定 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊 請相關部會在一週內以書面答覆委員另外要求期限者從期鎖定"},{"start":16609.033,"end":16629.526,"text":"委員 劉喜婷 黃婕所提的書面執行經列入紀錄 刊登公報並且相關部會以書面答覆本次會議議程已進行完畢倘若有不在場的委員補題書面執行一併列入紀錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理 散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}