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邀請經濟部部長 農業部部長及財政部首長就因應美國關稅政策以維持我國農漁畜業及關鍵產業競爭力之協助措施進行報告並被質詢"},{"start":1912.621,"end":1937.844,"text":"農業部部長陳俊濟財政部政務次長李慶華及經濟部部長郭智輝報告後委員邱毅英等18人提出質詢進而經濟部部長郭智輝等及其答覆決定一登記發言委員除不在場者外區域均已發言完畢詢答結束二委員徐欣盈及謝一鳳所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報三書面質詢的未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會上會宣布完畢"},{"start":1941.224,"end":1950.469,"text":"進行報告事項請宣讀邀請國家發展委員會主任委員經濟部部長及財政部首長就因應國際貿易情勢變化如何協助國內廠商擴大國際市場進行報告並備諮詢請國發會劉靜清主委報告"},{"start":1969.071,"end":1985.66,"text":"主席 各位委員先進大家早 今天承蒙貴會邀請本會列席就因應國際貿易情勢變化如何協助廠商擴大國際市場進行報告 敬請各位委員不吝指教"},{"start":1987.595,"end":2003.212,"text":"這一波的川普的關稅有形成了五個趨勢第一個就是變化已經變成常態了就是我們會在一個變化多端的一個新世界裡面經營企業第二個是全球沒有可藏之處"},{"start":2005.274,"end":2026.534,"text":"幾乎所有的國家都有都有得到受到這個這個對等關稅的對待那低稅率的國家呢通常充滿了這個低供應鏈的基礎未必是一個可去之處那再來在競爭力呢會變成一個王道那在大家在共同的"},{"start":2028.075,"end":2045.222,"text":"這個稅率稅率的壓力之下如何去把自己的競爭力做好才能夠不隨風起舞那最後呢深耕市場是一個重要的機會那這個市場呢成如本期上市報告的在全球的進口市場大約是24.7兆進口市場美國佔進口市場約3.3兆大概是3.4"},{"start":2051.544,"end":2073.982,"text":"換句話說全球的進口市場還有86.6%在美國以外的地方那我們如何協助廠商去進取美國以外的地方同時也協助廠商如何回到台灣讓台灣這麼堅強的供應鏈基礎能夠作為台商的後盾是我們現在積極在打造的兩個方向所以"},{"start":2075.103,"end":2089.875,"text":"我們今天大概有兩個重點第一個是如何協助台商立足台灣鞏固台灣競爭優勢那首先我們必須要確保我們的供應鏈的優勢那這個供應鏈是我們過去幾十年累積下來的供應鏈基礎"},{"start":2090.615,"end":2118.068,"text":"那這個基礎其實坦白講它跟美商是一個完整的結合那這個結合上面呢也帶動了台灣在供應鏈上面的超強地位那我們因應全球的這個AI的局勢裡面我們希望讓台灣的供應鏈能夠維繫既有的優勢那要維繫這個優勢呢其實總共有三件事要做好第一件事情就是我們對市場的力道跟通路必須做得比較強一點"},{"start":2119.569,"end":2148.112,"text":"過去台商中小企業多半都是透過代理商那代理商像美國的代理商是沒有能力把我們的產品賣到美國以外的地方那所以呢通路的改變將會是台灣中小企業很重要的一個挑戰如何貼近市場掌握市場直接需要的如何建立一個強而有力的通路到世界上其他的國家去是我們這一波希望協助台商進行轉型的"},{"start":2148.692,"end":2165.661,"text":"第二個部分是產品的差異化如何面對市場創造更有競爭力的產品也是一個必須去改變的地方第三個部分第三個部分就是說如何讓我們的運作透過數位化讓我們的整體運作成本效率都能夠大幅的提升"},{"start":2166.321,"end":2182.436,"text":"甚至如何達到一定的經濟規模在成熟型的產品因為成熟型產品比較難創造差異化他必須規模經濟來來進行那這裡面呢也帶動了幾個重點第一個就是企業AI化的競爭力我們如何透過AI的競爭讓我們的企業"},{"start":2184.518,"end":2210.518,"text":"更有竞争力在运作效率上面包括在产品的设计上面带进AI的因素让我们的差异化产生透过AI掌握市场的变动知道市场在哪里怎么发生那不同的产业在全球整体而言都是一个平均的成长只是它在不同的国家会起起落落在先进的外资企业几乎都会去掌握每个国家的变动做适度的资源调动"},{"start":2211.098,"end":2231.559,"text":"但是透過經銷商的模式通常會掌握不到市場的變動而且只會掌握到某些特定的國家那對我們發展未來的世界是不容易的那再來就是在比較利益下台灣的確在相較東南亞的國家裡面包括中國來看我們是的確有一定的競爭力"},{"start":2232.56,"end":2261.736,"text":"而這個人輕又土輕的地方可以給臺商更好的資源所以我們也希望協助臺商能夠回到臺灣我們會提供在土地水電能力各方面的協助那讓他們能夠有更強的競爭能力那另外在推動我們也曾同時在推動產業站照製造基金我們希望透過製造基金的方式協助傳產能夠轉型那第二個大的主軸就是臺灣嘉義布局全球"},{"start":2262.475,"end":2281.987,"text":"在這一波下來除了新的市場必須去佈局之外有一個新的商機也會跟著出現就是很明顯的中美的對弈之中非紅供應鏈是明顯的逐步壯大那我們從去年開始在AI Server上面就逐漸看到替換中國供應鏈的部分一直在產生那這個產生下來到了"},{"start":2285.129,"end":2308.454,"text":"今年出現了白色半導體的這個白名單也不斷的在給台商更多的機會我想我們認為這樣的機會會出現的越來越多隨著美國的科技禁令那我們的商機會越來越多我們如何掌握這個飛鴻供應鏈龍路飛鴻供應鏈裡面的大商機是我們也是必須去掌握的那同時呢我們也會"},{"start":2311.301,"end":2329.257,"text":"這個台商在做全球的供應鏈佈局上面我們也會進行協助讓台灣能夠在全球供應鏈裡面扮演很重要角色達到我們總統日不落帝國的這個經濟目的那這個目的裡面當然也含我們對美國的大力投資跟支持台商往美國的發展"},{"start":2330.718,"end":2355.245,"text":"當然這是一個全球的做法再來就是在企業的多元市場的開拓要開拓多元市場就一定要掌握市場的商機所以經濟部現在也成立了台灣貿易投資中心我們也希望能夠協助一起找出比較好的基地然後協助廠商調整自己的供應鏈跟市場的目的抓到了目標市場 針對目標市場去設計產品"},{"start":2358.166,"end":2379.368,"text":"然後呢去做市場的開發那另外這幾年呢全球最有效率的銷售方式不再是人的拜訪而是數位的行銷那數位的展間所以我們也會透過輔導的方式透過數位化與AI化協助廠商去開拓市場那讓這個市場能夠真正被深耕"},{"start":2380.009,"end":2407.476,"text":"那面對這個川普市場的這個新情境呢那政府除了制定這些有效的策略以外我們會繼續強化跟利用我們的優勢跟盟國做更緊密的合作那透過飛鴻供應鏈的建立同時加強台美的經濟關係確保在全球供應鏈重組過程中台商能夠擁有這個一片天而且可以在經濟跟產業持續的發展讓我們在變局中站穩腳步以上報告"},{"start":2409.557,"end":2426.273,"text":"這個謝謝指導謝謝現在請經濟部郭智慧部長報告主席各位委員大家早"},{"start":2427.27,"end":2455.317,"text":"承蒙贵委员会的邀请就因应国际贸易情势变化如何协助国内厂商扩大国际市场进行报告敬请各位委员不吝视教美国川普总统在今年1月重返白宫之后延续美国优先的路线推出许多关税措施希望能够缩短贸易逆差以及促使制造业回流美国"},{"start":2456.462,"end":2478.031,"text":"目前在特定的产品关税方面已针对钢铝汽车课征25%关税在对等关税方面则宣布自4月5日起对所有的国家加征10%关税另对57个贸易顺差较高的国家加征11%到50%不等的税率其中台湾暂定税率是32%"},{"start":2480.037,"end":2498.491,"text":"随后由于中国采取反制措施川普政府于4月9日宣布将其对等关税累加至145%其余国家在未来的90日之内暂停原宣布的对等关税税率维持加增10%的基础税率"},{"start":2501.069,"end":2510.357,"text":"对国际贸易市场的影响我们的分析如下在川普政府的关税政策之下全球贸易体系将进入一个新的变局"},{"start":2511.653,"end":2535.675,"text":"前动全球贸易链的供应链的重大调整企业将面临产业线的转移寻找新的供应商等挑战由于全球贸易环境的不确定性升高可能影响企业及民众对经济的信心市场商降低资本支出民众减少消费降低国际贸易及全球经济的成长动能"},{"start":2536.641,"end":2559.204,"text":"世界貿易組織在本月評估美國關稅政策將使今年的全球商品貿易貿易量萎縮1%IMF認為該政策將為全球經濟前景帶來風險我商在當前國際貿易環境面臨的挑戰如下一 台灣經濟發展高度依賴對外貿易"},{"start":2560.68,"end":2584.523,"text":"美国的关税措施将对我国出口导向的产业形成压力目前的评估工业产品例如机械、工具机、手工具等产业可能由于成本增加影响获利传统产业受关税冲击影响也较为明显是政府以及经济部关注及协助的重点"},{"start":2586.495,"end":2607.425,"text":"為傾聽業界心聲及了解業界需求經濟部近兩週來密集安排與企業座談與多個工商團體舉辦產業座談會向業者說明美國關稅政策及行政院的因應美國關稅我國出口供應鏈支持方案以確保政府政策能夠符合產業的需求"},{"start":2608.405,"end":2636.581,"text":"我近日陪同賴總統及行政院卓院長走訪桃園台中彰化高雄等受影響最深的傳統產業聚落了解產業需求業者都表示美國的關稅政策會因為產業屬性及廠商全球布局狀況而帶來不同的影響希望優先針對提供金融支持協助產品及技術升級擴大出口拓銷及近期出貨美國"},{"start":2637.984,"end":2658.513,"text":"的運輸安排等需求來給予協助針對如何協助國內廠商擴大國際市場經濟部另外透過外貿協會主動關懷業者收集與300家外銷企業的意見這些業者多關切美國訂單將有變化希望政府協助開拓美國及中國以外的國際市場"},{"start":2660.779,"end":2679.311,"text":"我们如何协助国内厂商扩大国际市场针对可能受美国关税影响的业者期待与需求政府已研明一系列的协助与辅导方案除了希望解决业者的燃眉之急也希望透过系统性的辅导方案开拓多元市场"},{"start":2680.151,"end":2695.574,"text":"协助业者取得国际订单以下分别说明经济部研拟的短中长期协助企业扩大国际市场的拓销措施在短期方面我们提供及时咨询的服务窗口"},{"start":2696.275,"end":2713.95,"text":"经济部已设置专人专线专网的服务窗口并将在国际专业展或者采购大会产业聚落等场合提供拓销投资布局产业升级等咨询服务让业者能够马上掌握到政府提供的协助方案"},{"start":2714.631,"end":2741.069,"text":"二 紧急协助争取新客户订单经济部属业权就川普关税政策严正一带并透过全球驻外单位扩大邀请各国买主来台采购定于本月23日举办Taiwan Select全球抢单大会届时将有包括德国 英国 韩国 日本等48国471位国外买主专程来台"},{"start":2746.111,"end":2771.737,"text":"1805家次企业与海外买主洽谈预估可以创造约5亿美元的商机为经济部协助受美国关税影响较大的机械精密零组件 锁工具 气配等产业经济部也特别安排于4月24日邀请至少50位海外买主前进中部产业重镇进行媒合洽谈"},{"start":2772.617,"end":2783.74,"text":"今年下半年规划分别于台中高雄重点产业聚落办理两场产业聚落抢单大会并将持续邀请国际买主深入机械零组件"},{"start":2785.174,"end":2812.944,"text":"水五金金屬製造擴建等產業聚落以精準鏈接買主需求呈現我商生產整合優勢顯示政府帶頭搶單助攻出口的行動決心另外鎖定國際五大排名第一的展覽辦理受影響產業的專屬活動例如於漢諾威木工機械展歐洲自行車展歐洲工具展"},{"start":2814.534,"end":2844.094,"text":"等新增设置台湾国家形象馆安排买主洽谈供应链展示区举办国际记者会新产品发表会等等使国际买主在数千家国家大厂名利的展览中更注意到我国企业与产品强化MIT形象并争取国际订单三支持出口供应链行政院已提出总额880亿元应应美国关税我国出口供应链支持方案"},{"start":2845.255,"end":2869.257,"text":"包括加码外销贷款保证、脱销海外市场等强化产业抗压与转型能力协助企业海外布局经济部将扩大协助企业在海外新设展示中心、服务维修中心、花货仓库及实体据点或新增代理商、经销商与拓展多元市场"},{"start":2870.216,"end":2894.628,"text":"二 外銷貸款優惠保證將針對出口企業擴大提供外銷貸款將優惠信用保證透過高保證陳述保證額度及補貼保證手續費降低業者採購原料生產出口周轉金等負擔三 中小微企業的貸款將受影響企業提供資金辦理周轉性支出及"},{"start":2895.936,"end":2917.11,"text":"购置机器设备贷款并搭配利息补贴及信用保证而在中长期方面协助企业强化全球布局经济部机器透过境外关内的策略带领台商布局全球市场优先聚焦中东欧、日本、美国、菲律宾等贸易伙伴"},{"start":2917.87,"end":2938.75,"text":"经济部于去年12月在捷克设立台湾贸易投资中心完成境外关内第一个海外服务据点第二个据点将在本月底于日本福冈设立今年下半年规划在美国成立第三个台湾贸易投资中心协助我国业者全球布局以共同的品牌来开拓国际市场"},{"start":2939.973,"end":2960.701,"text":"經濟部推出Taiwan Select共同品牌擴大海外通路,撥獲業界認同及支持未來將持續透過這項策略打造具高品質、安全、健康與永續發展形象的台灣產品未來經濟部將結合Taiwan Excellence在海外國際專業展設置台灣精品館"},{"start":2964.516,"end":2979.563,"text":"讓台製優質產品行銷全世界將評估與國外通路商合作配合產業需求在海外設立長期的展售點或維修中心在持續發掘潛在的商機方面為開發具潛力的國際商機經濟部除了積極發展"},{"start":2985.865,"end":3008.235,"text":"無人機在救災或物流之擴大應用亦將持續關注全球因氣候變化、天然災害、能源短缺、科技突破、政治局勢等因素衍生的防衛與安全、公共建設、醫療照護以及烏克蘭戰後重建等新商機5月份經濟部將結合Computax辦理資通訊政府採購洽談會下半年將舉辦國防軍工"},{"start":3013.777,"end":3030.317,"text":"智慧能源、水資源與環保主題的洽談會以發掘潛在的商機我政府的目標讓我國業者一、立足台灣二、布局全球三、加強美國式行銷全世界打造台灣成為經濟"},{"start":3032.392,"end":3051.985,"text":"日不落國面對經貿情勢變化政府將全力以赴制定有效因應對策確保經濟的穩定發展經濟部將持續跨部會合作與美方溝通確保我產業的利益外並關注美國關稅政策的變動"},{"start":3053.126,"end":3075.339,"text":"同时聆听各行各业的需求与挑战依产业意见滚动式调整政策强化产业的竞争力协助业者全球的布局以上报告敬请指教并祝各位委员生理健康万事如意谢谢谢谢现在请财政部李庆华次长报告"},{"start":3079.793,"end":3096.54,"text":"主席各位先敬大家早安那金融贵人会安排相关的部会就这个因应国际贸易形势的变化如何协助我们国内的厂商来扩大国际的市场进行报告那仅就涉及本部业务的部分呢仅要说明如下进行指教"},{"start":3097.06,"end":3116.42,"text":"首先我们持续配合政策协助我们的厂商国际布局那为了协助厂商国际布局呢我们的公股银行呢配合政策以金融支援产业协助厂商海外的发展以新南向的政策为例目前执行的情形如下我们中国输出的银行呢提供各项的专业金融的服务"},{"start":3116.88,"end":3141.677,"text":"包含了出口贷款与保证还有海外投资的融资海外营建工程与保证等专业的授信以及输出保险业务协助我国的厂商进居新南向的市场以113年度为例贷款的核准金额就高达新台币342.7亿元保证核准的金额也有40.35亿元输出保险的承保金额也有341.01亿元分别较111年度成长3%到10%"},{"start":3147.58,"end":3174.415,"text":"2左右那第二个部分呢输赢跟我们新南向地区有6个6国10家银行建立了转融资合作的关系提供1.87亿美元的转融资额度并透过系统整场及工程产业输出连带的平台从104年开始呢到114年3月底我们乘坐了新南向国家的案件就共有347件累计贷款以及保证的金额达到399.63亿元"},{"start":3176.896,"end":3203.438,"text":"那在其他各公股和银行部分呢我们也提供授信等金融服务扩大支援台商的能量其他的八家公股银行我们推动新南向业务的发展呢到114年3月底呢在新南向国家我们共设置了36家的分行21家的支行1家的子行以及20家的办事处来提供我们新南向这些业务的这个企业需要的授信余额达到8655.89亿元"},{"start":3206.5,"end":3224.31,"text":"另外我们也致力推动洽签所得税协定营造有利于台商全球布局的合理赋税环境我国目前签署生效的所得税协定达到35个包含了亚洲10国大洋洲3国欧洲16国非洲4国以及美洲2国"},{"start":3225.59,"end":3251.402,"text":"將持續配合台商全球布局的經貿或外交的需要與理念相近的國家來推動洽簽所得稅協定明明我國所得稅的協定網路那在因應美國對等關稅政策影響我國出口供應鏈支持措施部分呢我們提供出口廠商金融的支持包含了貿易融資利息解碼還有就是輸出保費的優惠那這個部分因為"},{"start":3252.342,"end":3271.238,"text":"在相关的部会都已经有做三万报告我们这边就不再重复赘述第二个呢就是简化通关的措施降低我们行政的成本从今年四月份开始呢我们保税业者呢按月会报关的作业呢可以免除减负装箱单也就是呢"},{"start":3272.119,"end":3287.519,"text":"保税业者出货每月只需要汇整申报一份的报单经过统计呢包含科学园区等1224家的业者每月可以减少制作约20万份的装箱单以及10万小时的作业时间降低业者的成本"},{"start":3288.16,"end":3305.802,"text":"第二个部分海关部分的作业也扩大实施远端集合也就是从今年4月份开始对于这些科学园区这些业者我们会透过保税智慧服务平台扩大实施远端集合减少监管海关实地的查核降低行政的干预"},{"start":3306.283,"end":3329.626,"text":"有助减轻业者的法尊成本那在租税优惠措施方面呢现行的产业创新条例已经针对各个产业提供多项的租税优惠那另外为了因应数位及绿色双轴转型协助企业呢因应国际经贸情势的转变行政院呢也在去年度就已经提出产业创新条例的修正草案延长了第十条之一"},{"start":3330.186,"end":3356.759,"text":"致激设备投资抵减的施行期间还有扩大了适用范围以及提高了支出的上限同时我们也修正了23条之一及23条之二来鼓励资金抑制新创事业的适用条件本部将持续关注产业发展以及国际情势配合产业政策来检讨我们的租税优惠措施给予企业支持以及维持国家经济成长的动能"},{"start":3357.279,"end":3384.687,"text":"另外財政部也提供了一些寬緩協助的措施包含在繳稅方面的協助措施那是因為如果遇到這個受到這個美國實施對等關稅政策的衝擊不能在稅捐繳納期間內一次繳清應繳稅款的話呢可依稅捐金款的規定像我們的基金機關呢申請延期或者是分期繳納稅款延期最長可達一年分期最長可達三年也就是可以分成36期來繳納"},{"start":3386.528,"end":3409.522,"text":"另外为了减轻我们企业以及民众申报缴纳所得税的压力本部已经规划延长我们今年的报税所得税的结算申报期间到6月底此外在公股银行的协助措施方面呢我们本部也督导我们的公股银行依据这个金管会办理对于企业的融资宽缓的措施就符合条件的部分呢提供展延借款的年期"},{"start":3410.342,"end":3426.408,"text":"或者是環交本席的協助來減輕企業資金的壓力另外我們自己公股銀行也用自有的資金來辦理中小及微型企業的振興融資方案這個部分也會持續辦理為我們中小微企業的穩健經營創新與轉型升級提供金融的支援"},{"start":3429.409,"end":3457.508,"text":"那对于因应这个美国对等关税政策的冲击本部已经提供上方上开相关的措施来协助我们国内的厂商因应国际经贸情势的改变并且扩大国际的市场那公股银行也会持续提供相关金融支援措施来希望能够这个协助我们的企业并且我们也会跟随来营造合宜稳定及保障的租税环境来协助企业因应变局降低贸易的风险"},{"start":3458.068,"end":3485.763,"text":"提升厂商全球布局下的国际竞争力以上报告敬请各位委员会议指教谢谢现在进行询答委员询答前主席原力作以下宣告每位委员发言时间本会委员6分钟必要时得延长2分钟非本会委员5分钟上午10点30分截止发言登记首先请邱毅英委员做询答"},{"start":3500.397,"end":3505.04,"text":"谢谢主席我请一下经济部郭部长"},{"start":3514.622,"end":3532.034,"text":"委員長部長早部長我想這幾天經過了這個上沖下洗這個可能不只經濟部國發會甚至整個政府團隊都一直在面對關稅的問題不斷的變動不斷的調整包括豁免的部分到底這些豁免"},{"start":3532.975,"end":3546.466,"text":"我們的半導體的豁免到底有沒有聽說川普總統自己親自出來打臉說他們的這個部長發布的這個是假新聞喔所以到底這個豁免關稅的部分有沒有經濟部的掌握是什麼"},{"start":3550.072,"end":3567.07,"text":"這一部分我想我們有確認確認這個美國啦但是我們確認也是美國的這個確實是美國的這個海關發出來的訊息是但是但是也不知道他到底是不是真的因為總統又出來否認"},{"start":3568.271,"end":3588.261,"text":"不過我要今天要請教就是說其實面對這樣的一個國際局勢或者是說美國在關稅的部分一直不斷地做變動當然大家都在尋求解決之道包括今天國發會經濟部甚至財政部的報告內容大概都會談到很多我們對於廠商對於產業的協助"},{"start":3592.003,"end":3618.101,"text":"那這個我們也看到這個國民黨的這個應對政策包括他們的主席帶領的幾位縣市長出來那他們的應對政策第一個就是說要恢復入客來台觀光刺激台灣的經濟部長我看到你在偷笑這個我個人是覺得我們現在在拼的是產業拼的是整體面對國際局勢"},{"start":3620.902,"end":3637.359,"text":"但是為什麼他們想到的都是要拚那個小的比如說一定要入客來台灣觀光這個跟國家的安全跟產業的韌性我們在談到的產業韌性其實那個觀念上面那個做法上面是有很大的落差嘛"},{"start":3639.417,"end":3661.968,"text":"那我們要談的我想接下來要跟您談的比較嚴肅的問題喔 洗產地這個大概是我們很多的產業界都非常的關心包括卓院長前兩天在演說的時候也特別談到洗產地到底我們有沒有準備好面對未來的這一波可能的洗產地風險來 部長"},{"start":3664.279,"end":3691.492,"text":"報告委員我們對洗產地這個命題是非常的這個嚴謹以待因為這個是美國也非常關注這個也牽扯到我們在談判上面是不是具有這樣的一個讓美國可以完全信任的這樣的一個程度所以跟委員報告我們大概對這個違規轉運來洗產地這個我們大概有四項這個具體的做法第一項就是我們監測進口量"},{"start":3693.713,"end":3720.262,"text":"就是我们进口的这些产品那跟苏美的产品做对接 勾击第二个 重演处罚当然每一件最高可以罚到300万而且取消它进出口的资格第三个 加强反倾销的调查那这个部分我们已经委托工种辅导厂商来做一些提告那当然最重要的这个厂商会讲说你都没说啊"},{"start":3721.222,"end":3738.296,"text":"為什麼就直接對我們採取這樣的措施所以我們現在目前不斷的加強對業者的宣導那麼第一場已經在4月15號舉行大概有600人參加你們是針對哪一些的業者你們第一場的宣導是針對哪一些哪一個是比較正相關比較擔心的"},{"start":3740.666,"end":3761.504,"text":"我們現在大概就是對我們這一次業者比較擔心的包括工具機、扣件這一類的業者先跟他們講因為他們有一些材料會從中國進來來加工我接下來就是要請教您的就是這個工具機或者是扣件其實扣件業者面臨到的衝擊應該是算是在海嘯第一排"},{"start":3762.625,"end":3790.402,"text":"他們其實像這些扣件業者在3月12號開始已經受到關稅已經漲到25%的影響那未來鋼材會不會大量的傾銷中國的鋼材會不會大量的傾銷到台灣來我們對於這些反傾銷的措施包括部長您剛剛講的那些其實過去都有在做未來我們要做的可能是加鹽加大茶器的力道但是對廠商來講成本的負擔"},{"start":3792.146,"end":3810.26,"text":"這個是一件事情那如何保護我們的這些扣件業者我們談到了那個880億的部分現在是說行政院本來是這個禮拜四會通過特別條例那現在要暫緩一週所以暫緩的部分"},{"start":3811.121,"end":3838.894,"text":"包括你的這些產業我們剛剛講到的這個扣件業者會不會也納入我們的這個輔導的範圍之內我們因為透過幾次的座談會然後由這個業者來反映他們目前的狀況那我們就是因為斟酌他們的這個反應的情形在做一些調整那我相信扣件業者的這些反應的這些訊息都會作為我們參考來做一些如何紓困"},{"start":3840.094,"end":3867.897,"text":"如果他們碰到問題如果紓困我要跟委員報告就是說我們這一次是比較能夠具體的根據每一家廠商受困的情形不一樣給以充分的這個協助這個是政府的態度所以我們應該是希望他們能夠度過目前這個90天以後可能會遭受到一些如果"},{"start":3868.778,"end":3896.488,"text":"我們也希望他能夠得到一些公平的這些競爭的這個位置那所以我們各方面都在努力啦那我們也會幫助他轉移這個訂單如果美國的這個市場我們沒有辦法繼續耕耘的話我們希望能夠開拓美國以外的市場等等各種的情況我們都在進行但是第一個重點就是說當他發生有營運上面的困擾的時候"},{"start":3897.848,"end":3915.429,"text":"政府第一個要做的事情就是紓困政府第一個要做的事情應該不是紓困應該是你們要跟財政部講好是不要抽銀根因為有的業者他不見得是要你紓困但有的業者他的這些銀行的貸款等等的"},{"start":3916.87,"end":3940.689,"text":"它會面臨到銀行第一時間就抽銀根所以其實包括那天部長您在我們在高雄的辦的這個產業座談會裡頭院長親自下來本席也都一直提到這個跟財政部跟金管會之間的溝通協調抽銀根這個事情一定是要一定是要能夠充分掌握而且千萬不要發生在我們的業者身上"},{"start":3941.269,"end":3966.039,"text":"是 報告委員我跟你講這個雨天不收傘這個是院長的指示啦所以具體的做法就是舊有的貸款展延這樣的一個命題來講的話如果企業他有繼續經營的意願而且順利的繳息那個票債信你一樣我們第一個階段先讓他延六個月先讓他延六個月那麼採取繳息不還本的這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":3967.62,"end":3989.698,"text":"那這個信保基金配合展延這樣的一個保證那我們也會讓銀行加速處理這個過程所以這點跟委員報告我想我們第一階段先讓它展延六個月然後我們再看後面實際的狀況運作是怎麼樣再來提如果有必要的話我們做第二波的這個"},{"start":3990.539,"end":4006.928,"text":"那我接下來要請教我們剛剛講的這些東西大概都直接從你們從這個經濟部或者是從財政部那地方政府的角色是什麼你總不能又讓地方的這些縣市長又出來開記者會說我們希望入客來台觀光所以地方政府的角色是什麼"},{"start":4007.148,"end":4034.123,"text":"你比如說像陳其邁市長已經邀集了業界座談過幾次大概市政府也擬定了一些政策要如何來協助這些產業那其他的地方呢比如說工具機比較多的台中市或者是沙崙或者台南嘉義等等這些縣市政府他們能夠扮演什麼樣的角色去協助這些廠商或者是說經濟部跟他們有沒有什麼樣的對接"},{"start":4035.604,"end":4056.638,"text":"報告委員我們跟地方政府的工業會或者是當地的工協會我們都去直接去跟他們呼籲開座談會直接了解我想中央政府跟地方政府我們會密切的配合我認為有一些政策的宣導應該是要"},{"start":4057.679,"end":4074.664,"text":"透過地方政府或者是透過剛剛部長您所說的這一些公策會公協會等等去不斷的讓這些廠商知道政府現在最新的措施是什麼最新的協助是什麼那他們面臨到的問題是什麼能夠及時的回報那經濟部或者是國發會我們也才能夠及時的去做滾動的修正才能夠去做及時的反應"},{"start":4083.007,"end":4109.519,"text":"所以我想這個國際的經濟局勢瞬息萬變很多的訊息早上講的跟晚上看到的又不太一樣所以他都必須要非常的及時的去做這些事情所以我們可能所有的工作同仁都會面臨到極大的壓力這個工時可能都會拉長但是不管怎麼樣要協助我們的廠商在最短的時間內去適應去調整甚至我們要去做到讓我們的廠商的"},{"start":4110.779,"end":4129.748,"text":"損害是降到最低我想這個會是經濟部跟國發會接下來這段時間很重要的一個工作我們會努力好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝現在先確定上次會議議事錄有無錯誤沒有好議事錄確定現在請楊瓊英委員做詢答謝謝主席楊瓊英發言邀請郭部長郭部長"},{"start":4147.054,"end":4167.652,"text":"委員長部長好那麼輝達宣布要跟台積電在美投資5000億美元您昨天也說了台灣只有兩種公司也就是做EMS的代工的鴻海跟偽創那台積電封裝的也會過去細品也可能會去直導"},{"start":4168.893,"end":4188.458,"text":"當然你也強調台灣廠商要去美國都會關注那台灣的技術更要嚴守我們的技術本位留在台灣不會過去這是你昨天的回答所以請教未來台灣還有哪些產業會加大在美國的投資"},{"start":4189.318,"end":4208.275,"text":"因為您一直說會希望是以產業鏈國家隊的方式來赴美所以請教規劃跟措施到目前為止的進展是如何請說明報告委員我們現在目前因為就像您剛才所指導的這個指教的這個每天的這個變化非常的大對"},{"start":4209.276,"end":4226.074,"text":"那这个NVIDIA的5000亿美元的投资那跟这个Apple5000亿美元的投资跟那么其他的美国很多的这个厂商七大科技厂商的这种高金额的投资啊"},{"start":4227.219,"end":4241.078,"text":"我們都在關注那台灣非常在目前的狀況因為我們台灣跟美國的科技業其實是高度的互整互相的配合的互相的關聯的"},{"start":4242.279,"end":4263.824,"text":"所以在这个方面台湾的厂商如何在透过这个市场的需求而造成全球的移动这个是必然的一个趋势在这个必然的趋势当中也就是我们是否会预期更多的台湾的半导体产业链会到美国那我们要如何严守我们的技术优势呢"},{"start":4264.204,"end":4282.686,"text":"我們的技術優先我們會在因為我們所有的對外投資經濟部能夠把關的地方就在我們的投審會那麼投審會有各個部會的同仁參加我們會對於國家安全對技術保障在這方面"},{"start":4283.086,"end":4301.626,"text":"這一點很重要我要謝謝部長這個嚴守我們的技術優勢這一點是非常的重要那除此之外台灣到你們目前的盤點還有其他的向下標的會加速去投資嗎"},{"start":4304.264,"end":4329.443,"text":"哪一方面在你们的产业你盘点的这些产业那对于在美国的投资是不是还有比较具体的哪一类型的有可能会加大的来投资这一部分我们没有办法去推论跟委员报告也就是说美国大概在世界上面领先的部分大概都是在软体科技业了"},{"start":4330.287,"end":4350.578,"text":"那或者是在這種高科技的設計業那這一部分其實跟我們的製造要移動其實是要相當大的這個協商所以目前在你們的評估判斷當中除了半導體電子業大概是這個方向是不是"},{"start":4351.687,"end":4367.435,"text":"我們目前來講這一部分就是看美國他們現在的政府的立場他需要達到什麼樣的一個目的是不是全部都到美國去生產我們也不認為是這個樣子因為這裡面"},{"start":4370.017,"end":4385.157,"text":"就這一個不認為是這個樣子所以因為訊息萬變所以這段時間我相信經濟部是最辛苦的我們必須要嚴正以待因為產業界真的很緊張所以接下來本席要請教的也就是說從紓困"},{"start":4386.559,"end":4402.205,"text":"一開始在關稅議題顯現出來的時候本席就強調對外的談判對內的紓困這是非常非常重要我要謝謝部長在上一次我們委員會的時候您正式回答說絕對不能雨中收傘"},{"start":4403.345,"end":4430.924,"text":"而且要寬 重寬 重塑那所以呢我們看到呢這個紓困的部分呢我要謝謝我們的謝昭偉在禮拜一的時候經濟委員會我們也到了台中因為台中是非常重要的這個工具機 手工具機 擴建零組件 木工機 自行車業這一些的產業 航太產業我相信在中部地區我們塑造了數兆以上的一個產值 所以"},{"start":4432.225,"end":4435.027,"text":"也換句話說 中部的產業穩 等於台灣的經濟動脈也會更加的有利那顧產業就是顧名聲嘛 因為這個是非常的一連貫的連結所以本席要具體建立 也就是在紓困的這個部分我們應當要設立一個單一窗口"},{"start":4455.459,"end":4475.21,"text":"因為未來這個紓困包括了產業界不管是海關不管是財政部不管是我們經濟部自己的方向跟政策一個政府就是一個單一窗口因為廠商界現在最危急的最害怕的是什麼未知未知比如說我們現在的海運"},{"start":4476.391,"end":4500.56,"text":"他們說競速拉貨但是這個海運漲得不得了而且排船不一定排得到在這樣的情況之下政府應該要有責任出面來協助所以我具體首先建議也就是說在這一段時間大家努力辛苦所做出的這些政策跟方針跟方法我們應該要有單一窗口來協助我們所有的產業請教"},{"start":4501.92,"end":4520.636,"text":"是啊報告委員這個我們會朝你這樣的一個建議啊是來來來協商感謝感謝因為這裡面跨很多的單位對對對單一窗口所以我們會來協商那如果是中小微企業的話因為我們中小企業署啊它本身就是有一個中小企業保證基金是這是另外一個部分我們有一個經濟部的馬上辦對對對"},{"start":4524.659,"end":4551.156,"text":"但是部長本席清楚你馬上辦的這個部分它只是一部分但是未來我們整個談判的過程當中廠商所需要協助我也感謝部長您說一定要跨部會的來成立一個位階提升來成立一個單一窗口這個訊息出去讓我們的產業界它會比較安心會比較安心這個我們會來跟其他的單位來做一個溝通來整合"},{"start":4551.696,"end":4569.256,"text":"就像您所指教的這個馬上辦服務中心我們會擴大它的這個功能對 做一個單一窗口橫向的組織也就是應變小組能夠快速解決它的問題是 非常感謝但是我們看到大家有一個心聲也就是傳統產業跟中小企業佔我們的人口"},{"start":4570.097,"end":4597.816,"text":"劳动人口的九成那我们到目前为止大家都认为政府的资源多重在这个半导体电子业传统产业跟中小企业似乎没有受到重视大家一致的心声所以我也看到在我们880亿当中首先要请教因为延后来宣布我们也知道在整个关税的谈判当中还有很多的挑战"},{"start":4598.956,"end":4620.923,"text":"那請教我認為880億根本不足為道那所以要請教喔部長880億昨天我們在總諮詢的時候院長也說會因應方向所以我具體建議具體的請問我們的880億是否會加碼如果有必要的話"},{"start":4622.203,"end":4633.108,"text":"會加碼好 這個跟行政院院長昨天答覆本席的是一樣有必要就是要加碼那在我們整個中小企業的部分也務必要加碼對不對是我要謝謝部長你這麼說所以我們昨天討論的"},{"start":4638.59,"end":4666.949,"text":"中小企业的这个围形的部分我们现在在881里头我们只有提51这是不够的这个数额必须再去盘点再去增加因为这个就是最基础的你稳定了整个中小企业等于稳定了就业等于稳定了我们的家庭接住了我们的家庭这是非常的重要整体我们可以运用的这个中小企业的钱是410亿"},{"start":4669.291,"end":4683.061,"text":"對 410億當中昨天你也回答了你還有一個200億的200億你包括的是補助研發轉型但是部長我要跟你討論的在我們中部地區裡頭我們這些工具機手工具機零組件我們的"},{"start":4685.522,"end":4710.707,"text":"扣件等等我們的自行車我們的航太大家非常的緊張非常的緊張所以我相信這一個數絕對是不夠的除了方法精進我們更要將數額來增加就成為你剛才所說的四情況來加碼因為我們知道這個產業這個數量比較多所以我們會"},{"start":4712.678,"end":4718.144,"text":"趕快去解決這些問題就直接在您剛才講的這幾個精密加工的部分我們會來趕快去解決這個問題一個重點也就是說不要讓我們的中小企業傳統產業做了這麼多的苦工政府理當應該要協助輔導尤其在這個時間所以一定不可以忽視了我們的傳統產業跟中小企業"},{"start":4737.302,"end":4750.272,"text":"我們不會忽視傳統產業跟中小企業而且一定要重視這是我們國人的產業我們都一定是重視的一定是重視好加油謝謝是謝謝委員好謝謝我們現在請林黛嬅委員做詢答好有請國發會組委跟郭部長劉組委郭部長"},{"start":4770.458,"end":4799.254,"text":"好 本席想了解这次美中关税大战当中到底在这个习产地很明显这是一个重点那习产地的政策目前是什么那个郭部长跟主委这边你们回应一下是 报告委员我想习产地的部分我们会有四个重点第一个重点就是对这个习产地的部分我们第一个对监测进口量"},{"start":4800.694,"end":4821.926,"text":"監測進口量就是跟輸出美國的這個產品做全面的勾結把它勾結出來第二個當有這個現象的時候我們重研加法那麼最高可以罰到300萬甚至於取消它的進出口商的資格第三個加強反傾銷的調查那麼這個我們已經委託工業總會輔導廠商來提告"},{"start":4825.708,"end":4846.986,"text":"那第四個加強業者的宣傳我想這個很多的業者他可能不清楚所以我們加強這個業者宣傳第一個在第一場呢針對這個工具區啊這個扣件業我們在4月15號有舉行大概有600人參加那麼今年至少會趕緊來辦理大概預定目標是18場"},{"start":4847.867,"end":4867.489,"text":"好部長您這四個方案我覺得還不夠徹底還不夠根本本席在這邊建議這個短期作為你們這個尤其在短期作為當中本席認為在這個短中長期你們的做法其實我是認同的尤其在你們報告當中也很清楚的寫到要協助廠商進度美國市場"},{"start":4868.55,"end":4894.731,"text":"那除了台湾除了半导体之凶性之外部分的传统产业食品农业制造业的加工在美国市场跟中国是有高度的同质性既然是危机是危险也是机会所以本次除了对美国谈判应该争取较有利的条件如果开拓新市场除了美国之外的新市场来分散集中风险这也是我这本席要提醒要注意的所以针对习产业当中"},{"start":4895.211,"end":4907.036,"text":"本席建立我們政府直接應該評估積極的加速全球標準組織GSI這是美國推動的各級產業的產品生產履歷全球標準化所以為什麼要請國發會來因為今天不是只有經濟部包括農業包括任何各行各業"},{"start":4921.221,"end":4938.169,"text":"的這個產品他推了一個所謂的生產履歷那這個生產履歷標準是跨各行各業的那這是美國在推動的全球標準的組織CSI他所推動那我們尚未加入所以你們應該積極的去了解這個議題也認為這個是應該趕快積極加入的話所有稀產地全部都解決了我從他的生產地這是從越南來的這是從哪一個國家來的"},{"start":4948.014,"end":4958.463,"text":"清清楚楚他已經跳脫你的這個QR Code的這種這個不管是一維還是二維的概念了他已經是整個全球產品各產業所以他裡面的標準有4000多種的標準所以我不曉得部長跟主委這邊知道這個訊息嗎"},{"start":4971.401,"end":4998.128,"text":"報告委員這個全球標準組織GSI這個部分到目前為止我想我們並沒有用這個標準來衡量那我想我們會參考這個其實在我辦公室其實有跟你們產發署的同仁有做一個初步那你們也說你們不知道所以應該趕快帶回去研究那如果這個的話根本就是你剛講的四個作為從邊境的管制"},{"start":4999.108,"end":5028.868,"text":"包括你相關那個四個作為那其實要花下更多的很多的人力啊但是如果你跟上這個全球的組織這個全球標準化的組織的時候你各行各業你的從產地運輸到加工包括你到你的最終點不管是不是到美國你到即使到歐盟這是全球唯一的美國在推動的一個全球的標準組織那你就全部都迎刃而解了我覺得這個才是根本你在解決洗產地的方法"},{"start":5030.629,"end":5046.736,"text":"這個這個就那部長您這邊包括國發會你要跨部會的協調你們的做法是什麼針對這個議題你們要趕快啟動你們的評估啊包括部長我們可以深入了解就這個標準大概是全球標準組織但是"},{"start":5047.476,"end":5059.444,"text":"美國還是真的全球每一個國家都有納入譬如說像WTO它有納入這樣的我們會深刻的去瞭解謝謝委員我覺得這個也稱為可以變成是你們跟美國談判的一個籌碼"},{"start":5064.247,"end":5071.955,"text":"那另外呢這個中期的部分呢我們政府要扮演產業升級轉型這個其實在郭部長這邊您其實也做得很積極那包括這個農業部的部分包括豬隻來講我也這個一直倡議要這個精準的"},{"start":5080.763,"end":5089.847,"text":"異因育種 那也希望提升租資的一個生產效益 包括農業部本身整個決策都應該指揮化 包括也針對國發基金當中 本席也對我們主委這邊有提到應該要在相關的要重視這個傳統產業跟中小企業好 這個針對國發會"},{"start":5100.332,"end":5121.663,"text":"70年代國家經濟會的長遠發展才有1987年的台積電成立進化成為所謂護國神山那其實晶片產業重點是它能夠帶動電子跟直通訊的蓬勃發展其實我晶片對美粗糙的占比我才4.5%而真的帶給我們台灣國家利益的是晶片所帶動的直通訊電子產業我粗糙達64.5%"},{"start":5126.585,"end":5148.299,"text":"所以山頂只有一點 山頂 山體才是堅如磐石的關鍵讓台灣成為產業鏈中不可或缺的關鍵角色作為規劃國家發展策略的統合機關國發會您在佈局下一個護國神山當中您的下一個世代的長期策略規劃我們再回顧一下"},{"start":5149.079,"end":5150.48,"text":"台積電成為復活神山的原始背景是在於長期的市場調查那時候美國他放棄了晶片的代工我們國家認為他放棄然後他也探尋了張忠謀等"},{"start":5165.653,"end":5169.775,"text":"相關的這些人才既然美國放棄那這些人才在美國生根那就把他們也認為這是前景可為所以就回國那我們做了一個世界調查當中之後人家不做我們認為有前景的才造就了這件事情"},{"start":5183.701,"end":5188.687,"text":"好 那現在我們政府這個的下一個復國神山這樣的一個產業規劃我不曉得國發會這邊有沒有什麼的一個規劃或者是一個什麼想法或者有什麼啟動"},{"start":5198.65,"end":5217.425,"text":"我們有兩件事在做第一個是強化既有的護國神山韌性譬如說我們在半導體的特用化學跟這個零組件的部分設備的部分我們會去強化它的韌性那另外一個是我們在規劃更多的護國神山其實台灣現在"},{"start":5218.786,"end":5241.175,"text":"已經有多個譬如說AI是我們的新的復國神山譬如說ICT是我們的新復國神山它有一個基準點我們用兩個構面去看它第一個構面是這個產業具不具備國際競爭力已經具備國際競爭力又有一定的市佔率的時候我們就會以它為發展把它的全球市佔率擴大因為全球市佔率擴大才能影響到全球但是沒有國際競爭力是"},{"start":5242.775,"end":5251.5,"text":"難以做全球市佔率你認為當時在台積電美國放棄的當下我國投入的時候是有一個已經有一個基礎的市佔率嗎"},{"start":5254.304,"end":5282.348,"text":"這是中期的一個發展另外一個長期是它有一個長遠的未來那我剛剛提到的AI就是未來很重要的一個長期的發展那我們這些都會去考慮進來好所以你政府對我們在技術上我們有三個大的方向第一個是矽光子的產業量子的產業再來是自主化機器人就是全部自動化的那自主化機器人這三個產業是我們在未來如果您用長期來看是我們長期在"},{"start":5282.968,"end":5305.908,"text":"在發展的對象那我們現在也規劃了政策好OK那我想對於帕蘇我想這次還是就既有現在的產業趨勢當中去做我們下一個世代的富國深山的規劃但是本席想要講的是你對於全球的市場規劃當中接近台積電的這樣的一個市場"},{"start":5306.348,"end":5324.751,"text":"他當時是被放棄的也可能當時也不被認為有任何的被美國放棄而且在全球當中他也不具任何的一個市場全景的情況之下我們台灣積極的投入因為我們的徵詢的類相關的人才都認為他可能會是一個"},{"start":5325.712,"end":5340.42,"text":"一個未來的一個很有潛力的產業所以其實這也是沒有人是神啦所以其實這也是但是我覺得不要除了在你現有的產業當中去爬出所謂的護國神山之外是不是有更這樣的一個寬闊而且有一個非常長遠視野的來替國我們台灣下一世代護國神山來做產業規劃好 那以上 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":5350.711,"end":5368.469,"text":"好谢谢在张琪凯委员询答结束后我们休息五分钟现在请陈婷飞委员做询答谢谢主席我们请部长经济部长国部长"},{"start":5375.543,"end":5388.892,"text":"委員長部長好我想最近一個議題就是說川普要針對半導體藥品來徵關稅要啟動232調查232項的這樣的一個調查的部分232調查這個部分要怎麼辦報告委員這個232調查我們現在這個產發署都已經有進入這樣一個模擬的狀況"},{"start":5401.974,"end":5431.332,"text":"有模拟状况有模拟状况怎么模拟状况首先对半导体的课税我们大概有四个方向第一个就是美国政府正在进行国安的调查所以我们也在关切密切的关注这样的一个调查第二个我们政府也因为美国在调查这件事情所以我们也在布局看到这个调查的结果会怎么样第三个积极跟美国的政府协商为什么"},{"start":5431.872,"end":5439.336,"text":"因為台灣的這個半導體跟美國的用戶是高度的相關因為美國他們是做設計我們是做這個開發跟製造所以這個東西"},{"start":5448.081,"end":5466.875,"text":"合作關係 合作關係很深所以我們跟美國是這個策略上面的夥伴根據這四個命題我們都是高度的跟美國在做協商希望這個稅 美國課稅結果他的目的沒有達成反而傷到我們台灣"},{"start":5467.735,"end":5486.011,"text":"這個部分其實現在大家都在看因為依照1962年貿易擴張法的第232條那這232調查就是依照這個部分要去重新對於我們半導體及相關製造設備去做調查那就像部長所說的其實"},{"start":5486.952,"end":5509.967,"text":"我們跟美國是策略聯盟的關係他是設計我們是在製造的一個強項所以在這樣的一個前提之下我們怎麼把這個平台建立好然後可以用協商的用動之以情也好或是用夥伴合作的角度也好我覺得大家都在看所以這是個面向"},{"start":5511.209,"end":5525.73,"text":"剛剛部長所講的是四個面向我們到底目前有掌握了多少的優勢你認為呢我們現在是這樣子因為其實跟委員報告因為我們自己說不好我們最大有影響的是我們的客人"},{"start":5527.762,"end":5554.347,"text":"用客人用客戶用客戶跟我們政府互相來幫忙表達給美國的政府了解所以這個給美國政府能夠了解這裡的經營就是對我們台灣我們在講這個關稅就靠大家在認知沒有差異的情況之下決定一個對我們台灣有競爭力的關稅所以部長你剛剛說客戶很重要"},{"start":5554.907,"end":5582.575,"text":"就是說我們這一次的所謂一個協商的團隊我們其實應該把這些我們企業體也應該要加入也就是客戶端他們其實是很重要的所以如果這樣的一個協商團不只是政府還有民間的力量我覺得我們會越成功這個部分可能要請部長在這段時間可能跟這些企業體密切的"},{"start":5583.516,"end":5598.215,"text":"結合甚至因為部長是來自企業界我相信這個部分你非常的了解如何利用客戶的心理客戶的心理來讓他們的政府好好的在這個平台當中去做對談"},{"start":5599.497,"end":5615.545,"text":"然後彼此互利這才是重要不是哪一方得利而是要彼此互利所以這個部長在麻煩那因為我們也清楚現在90天這10%的關稅大概這是一個"},{"start":5616.545,"end":5636.142,"text":"一個基底那這個基底我們對於這個基底有多少的廠商有受到影響我們有沒有調查過之前我們是針對32%那現在基本上90天以10%為這樣的基底那麼這個基底大概川普也說了這個基底也不會降"},{"start":5637.464,"end":5655.081,"text":"大概也很難只是說在幾個我們的業別去做調整而已那麼好我們有沒有瞭解有多少的產業會因為這10%受到影響是 報告委員我們大概在過去的兩個禮拜裡面透過市場的這個跟"},{"start":5656.863,"end":5673.878,"text":"總統還有行政院院長一起開的這個座談會還有我們經濟部同仁去拜訪各個的這個工協會我們大概以10%的關稅來講大家當然也有一些廠商有受到一些影響對就是在這個部分那這個部分呢他們有特別講說"},{"start":5675.439,"end":5685.006,"text":"只要跟競爭國是站在同一個起跑線這個他們不擔心他們比較擔心的是我們10%別人0%這樣子對他們來講就馬上有10%的距離所以部長這就是關鍵競爭力是"},{"start":5693.032,"end":5713.943,"text":"其實就是說大家如果齊頭是都OK但是呢如果有不一樣的所以我覺得我們會希望了解哪些廠商受到影響就是說我們在這幾個區塊是不是會被漏掉是 報告委員我們在產發署他們的努力情況之下我們都會把我們的競爭果"},{"start":5715.663,"end":5735.053,"text":"把這些資料然後呈送給這個談判的這個小組讓他們做參考那麼也積極的跟美國那邊做溝通就是說這個部分我們希望因為我們跟美國在很多的這個科技也好其他的各種方面也好"},{"start":5735.473,"end":5754.167,"text":"都是很多是非常好的这个关系我们希望透过这样子让美国能够充分的了解台湾是他的国家关系部长其实现阶段我们的资料要越详细是给谈判的这些代表让我们清楚我们台湾现在的优势在哪里劣势在哪里"},{"start":5754.747,"end":5778.943,"text":"讓他們很清楚了解那這些一些基本的基底資料你們才有所以我們會希望你們要把這些資料很具體的呈現然後如何分散我們在整個出口產業的風險這也是另外一個區塊好就是說我們如何分散如何找尋更好的一些出口的對象"},{"start":5779.764,"end":5791.401,"text":"然後我們行銷的對象這也是一個重點然後我要給部長看一個資料這是昨天新的一個民調也就是說大家對於"},{"start":5792.796,"end":5810.506,"text":"我們政府要如何穩住人民的信心指數當然現在台灣人對川普的這個部分是非常沒有辦法接受覺得說台灣人這個美國川普總統對新關稅的政策其實覺得不合理的有81.9%可是認為我們的政府"},{"start":5816.89,"end":5834.93,"text":"應該要有更對於對應的回應這個部分認為有贊成的是43.9%不贊成的是40.8%也就是一個信心指數我所講的這是信心指數就是說我們這段時間所做的大家還是會有點擔憂"},{"start":5836.371,"end":5851.304,"text":"包括農業大家會覺得說我們是不是在談判桌上會被扒第二層皮或是多層皮然後呢也有今天車輛工會因為我們汽車零組件非常的強是不是會造成有30萬人會失業"},{"start":5853.446,"end":5882.626,"text":"這就是信心指數的問題今天我會在這最後跟部長來討論就是說我們應該要人民的信心回復讓他們做為我們最強的後盾這才是最重要的是的所以部長這個就是說我們希望你們提供更多的資料產業的資料企業的資料給我們談判的代表讓他們清楚台灣的優勢在哪裡我們要怎麼去跟美國談判我們的劣勢在哪裡"},{"start":5883.366,"end":5903.462,"text":"第二 我們要分散我們的風險 也就是出口風險這也是我們應該現在要做的第三 恢復我們的信心指數因為我們一定要把這些出口的比重分散而且我們要搶中國在美國的市場"},{"start":5904.858,"end":5932.808,"text":"因為中國現在跟美國這樣的一個角色已經很清楚了大概很難中國可以進到美國去做這些所謂他們過去運籌帷幄的這些市場端那麼我們要怎麼去取得這個部分這個也是另外一個重點是 這個我們都有在模擬那有各種的方向那如何切入因為中國它失去這個市場以後它可能會溢出到其他的市場"},{"start":5933.368,"end":5962.184,"text":"这个都是动态的报告委员我们产发署都有做这方面的模拟这个模拟很重要所以你们任何的模拟就是要让我们的人民更有信心去support你们然后更有竞争力能够让我们去抢所谓国外的市场这个才是我们现在要帮忙我们产业界跟人民在未来商业的一些变动"},{"start":5963.024,"end":5966.63,"text":"所給的一個信心力量好 再拜託部長謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請張其凱委員做詢答"},{"start":5996.015,"end":5996.075,"text":"國務委員好"},{"start":6008.369,"end":6024.036,"text":"博士長辛苦了這段時間稍微補回應該經濟部是同辛苦的啦所以我剛剛看執行的委員對你都是肯定會加冕你我一早看到楊前雲楊委員一個執行講了那麼多次的謝謝不過老實講這段時間我看你在說每天早上六點就起床"},{"start":6027.256,"end":6053.331,"text":"吃苦 動作的吃補 對不對當然是辛苦啦 不過更重要的我們都可以吃苦 可是不能讓人民吃苦所以 包括剛剛你講的 剛剛產發署要做一些模擬讓人民可以安心 這是當務之急那這兩天我先問你一個比較重要的這幾天啊 人民現在有一個很大的餘力就是來 我們看一下我們台灣啊 怎麼沒有在名單裡面呢"},{"start":6055.126,"end":6083.806,"text":"美國的財政部長說他有五個國家優先這幾天都要談英國、澳洲、日本、南韓、印度像日本明天他就要談了石破茂他們首相都說有機會他自己要親自要過去極力的爭取我就要問我們本來不是總統說我們是在第一批嗎怎麼現在被落掉了還是我們的錯誤有消息嗎那個消息是有錯誤的報告委員我想談判過程裡面"},{"start":6085.687,"end":6098.663,"text":"它有幾個重要的部分第一個是談確認命題對不對第二個進行對談第三個總結我們在第一階段已經在4月11號跟美國開過視訊了"},{"start":6100.666,"end":6124.193,"text":"所以我們是比日本要快的喔那個視訊是那個視訊大概有兩個問題啦第一個這個視訊到底算不算是會談的現在人家去的這個只是一個視訊嗎不是啊我們是把錯誤的一個視訊當成我們的一個一個已經開始在談那個變成是第一波我們現在的問題現在民眾你看啊你看喔專家學者是這樣問所以我們股票為了我們11號那天的那個視訊已經"},{"start":6125.793,"end":6151.246,"text":"上漲一波了對不對 結果發現我們現在不在第一波裡面所以我們的消息是不是有錯誤 這是一個這是第一點 第二點比較重要那天我們談完之後 那天你沒有去嘛是次長去了 江次長嘛對不對那天的內容到現在我們完全沒有信息然後外面有很多的擔心把我們跟以色列放在一起嘛所以他們就講說我們應該是跟南韓跟日本放在一起會比較安全因為我們都是在半導體很強嘛"},{"start":6152.447,"end":6173.544,"text":"可是相對的我們跟以色列說他們說兩個問題一個會不會談到很多美債的問題因為我們都是需要美國大力的支持在國安上面會不會我們讓步太多可是到目前外面都沒有消息就是歸納問題的部分我跟委員報告我想所有的都是進行中的命題"},{"start":6174.639,"end":6193.576,"text":"那我們在4月11號他們談的部分大概就談對等關稅談非關稅貿易障礙出國管制等多項的議題我們要談的是非常的多的所以我剛才在講嘛第一個美國在談判不管是誰啦任何一個談判都是已經確定我們要談什麼"},{"start":6195.253,"end":6206.519,"text":"然後才會進行談對不對所以我們已經先確定我們要談什麼日本、韓國他們還沒有所以他們第一波也是進行所以我們算是比在頂線這第一波的五個應該是這個樣子這個解讀應該是這樣解讀才是正確的"},{"start":6210.421,"end":6231.229,"text":"外界有人說這是假消息什麼在總統講我們在第一批是假消息來源這個不對我們現在應該是搶還比這個澳洲跟日本跟南韓還是搶在前面這個是事實嘛你怎麼會漠視說之前已經我們跟美國談了然後來講說後面報導說這個我第一波要談但是在那一邊談"},{"start":6231.889,"end":6259.487,"text":"我們這個視訊基於我們在這個進行的過程之中大家彼此協商的一個結果進行第一波的這個談過所以我在這個立法院跟委員報告千萬不要誤導我們的國人說這個什麼我們白開心一場我覺得這個是對現在是兩個問題嘛一個就是專家學者跟民眾說我們股票是白開心的一場這是一個要把它弄清楚嘛"},{"start":6259.887,"end":6268.072,"text":"第二個現在民眾更關心的那天談完之後我們到底有什麼樣的進展你說人家如果美國跟日本人家都實質已經坐在那邊談了那個總統有回應嘛院長也有回應嘛都有回應啊說談的這個情況不錯嘛"},{"start":6276.67,"end":6301.624,"text":"就這樣子啊你也了解對不對所以外界現在很期待說我們很清楚知道哪些地方是有進展的那我們什麼時候代表團可以過去不是只有一個視訊不是啊現在不是只有我的疑問嘛對不對這幾天從昨天到今天因為美國的財政部長清楚講說他優先要跟這五國趕快要談對不對所以現在我們回過頭去問說我們的視訊到底進度是怎麼樣第二個我們代表團什麼時候可以開始出發"},{"start":6302.945,"end":6323.542,"text":"這些事情都是在進行中的事情報告委員有些在進行中談判的事情我們也沒有辦法跟大家做一個鉅細靡遺的報告不過大家請放心到目前為止我們談判的就是就成果來看應該都還在好的境界裡面"},{"start":6325.034,"end":6352.292,"text":"OK 好 那我們就很期待啦現在全民都在等了不是只有那一場視訊我們要談出一個對台灣的這個關稅是具有競爭力的競爭力這樣的一個情境嘛大家朝這個方向在努力所以為什麼我們現在還不斷地要去跟業界訪談特別是大家委員所關心的這一些產業我們都包括總統也好 院長也好我都陪著他們跑了好幾場接著後面還有好幾場"},{"start":6353.132,"end":6381.873,"text":"我們自己經濟部裡面的產發署也好我們的中小企業署也好也都一一的去拜訪這些產業了解他們我們現在在談沒有想到的所以我們都非常的努力在勾勒出來這些哪一些問題可以提供給談判小組他們作為參考所以這一點請委員也能夠了解當然委員有看到什麼樣需要來協助這些中小企業協助我們台灣的中小微企業"},{"start":6382.914,"end":6410.76,"text":"幫他們爭取說你看看大家都沒有看到部長你看我已經質詢好幾次我們做了很多要求希望可以露實我們現在是共護國難共同來努力這個大家心都是一樣的可是當然就是人民期待就是說政府是解決問題的大家我知道看你們有在辛苦可是我剛才講了包括就是談判這個整個過程如果開始有在質疑就是說視訊完之後為什麼沒有新的進度代表團什麼時候要出去我覺得政府也要讓人民可以安心是的 這個是我們共同的目標那問你一個"},{"start":6413.823,"end":6416.489,"text":"最近引起很多討論就是我們美麗的東海岸的風機的這個問題我們看一下現在有人說在台東"},{"start":6425.577,"end":6446.243,"text":"這邊有一個東重陸翼的風力的發電計畫會不會讓我們最漂亮的東台灣啊你看 成功那麼漂亮一直到長濱那邊是 報告委員這個計畫部長有掌握嗎這個在禮拜一啊那個台東的那個委員就已經有問過這個問題然後問了報告再重新一次"},{"start":6447.043,"end":6464.069,"text":"就是經濟部不支持長指有生態環境疑慮地方不支持的陸域風電規劃的案件經濟部不會支持所以針對保定所以針對這個案子經濟部是不支持的地方政府不支持我們就不支持"},{"start":6465.149,"end":6484.721,"text":"不只這個案件所有地方政府不支持的案件經濟部就是不會支持這個我在禮拜一那個台東的那個立委就已經問過這個問題我回答過了今天我再鄭重的回答這個委員您的這個案子會引起很多討論是因為他已經辦了兩次的這個說明會"},{"start":6487.322,"end":6514.67,"text":"以細微邪告替大五鄉辦了這個說明會10號又辦了第二次然後很多縣議當地的縣議員跟縣政府都出來說他們不曉得然後他們去問了環境部說開始要做環評而且他上面有一個公告嘛環境部直接跟他講說主管機關要許可是你嘛所以很多立委都要問你這個事情那當然他體面還有一個爭議點這個公司啊還沒有成立可是他們說去查這個聯絡電話是在光與工程顧問有限公司"},{"start":6515.959,"end":6533.324,"text":"經驗公司你一定知道嘛他們兩個在同一個公司裡面這個公司啊是從業的子公司所以經驗公司你一定了解嘛對不對我離開上任部長以後你已經把從業這個說滿了沒有沒有沒有 崑委員在這個地方再說明一下我離開"},{"start":6535.307,"end":6548.205,"text":"崇越之前光於是我已經離開崇越的董事會了我只是股東的時候他買的公司所以你千萬不要低溝道塞都這樣子我會很難過"},{"start":6550.562,"end":6577.424,"text":"這種事情 這個就是一個利益迴避嘛 其實不是我不是經營者的時候你會投這個這樣這不公平不是不是 部長我如果說我今天要買台塑的股票我是股東我賣台塑有問題的話我也有問題嗎 不會這樣子嘛部長 這個案子是因為它是一個光電嘛 對不對光電的主管機關是經濟部員你聽我講 你是主管機關嘛"},{"start":6579.267,"end":6585.196,"text":"這個案子目前你是反對的那還好啊若是你贊成了這個案子要經過經濟部你下面的人"},{"start":6587.541,"end":6615.427,"text":"這個人家瓜田李下 這個就是法律上的第一迴避嘛對 報告委員所以今天很好 我今天從你嘴巴聽到說你不贊成這個案子你如果贊成就麻煩啦這個時候進入整個開發的過程經濟部的同仁 要...報告委員對不對 所以今天得到一個你反對這個案子是非常好的報告委員所有我做事行事光明 坦蕩蕩任何的違法違規你只要找到麻煩去提告"},{"start":6617.577,"end":6644.568,"text":"我不會說這個地方去呼籲啦什麼的不可能啦 了解這個意思嗎現在這件事情 總是安裝人員對我看不上眼啦所以千萬不要用這種事情來勾擊我部長你今天做這個宣示是好的不過我要提醒你一點從業是一個本來就是這樣一個政策嘛不定 你先聽我講這應該也是為了你好啦經濟部主管的業務裡面因為你從業也很大嘛經濟部也很大"},{"start":6646.989,"end":6664.301,"text":"你當然你上任經濟部長之後你就辭掉了跟從業的可是我在提醒你我在上任經濟部長之前的五年我就已經離開公司了對啦 保定你現在來關經濟部嘛經濟部這麼多從業有太多的這只是其中一個案子嘛"},{"start":6665.322,"end":6692.911,"text":"你有太多的案子跟經濟部都有關你要非常注意這件事情當然可能不見得馬上法律上有問題可是這一定有利益迴避跟瓜田李下你要非常小心任何的瓜田李下我都歡迎提告不是提告啦 保定來所以今天做一個很重要的宣示嘛東城電力開發這個案子你不贊成更進一步的你說只要是路上一些風機對環境有不好的除了東海岸你都反對嘛這是第一對不對你今天要不要利用這個機會更清楚跟大家宣示等於剛才說的嘛"},{"start":6693.947,"end":6708.251,"text":"違法事情你不做你光明磊落嘛所以包括崇業你以前的公司如果是跟你經濟部有關的在利益迴避上面在瓜田底下上面你會清清楚楚一定不會涉及到我已經離開崇業的經營層了"},{"start":6711.252,"end":6738.334,"text":"你不能用說我只是一個股東然後這些公司他的作為要來橫架在我身上我剛才已經跟你報告了如果我今天是某個公司的股東那代表那家公司跟我就有關係嗎我這麼多公司這麼多公司三百三千幾間公司我買公票你都可以認為說這我都有關係嗎不可能是這樣嘛對不對 委員我想你是非常"},{"start":6739.315,"end":6758.05,"text":"努力非常棒的一個委員但是不能夠這樣子好不好部長我今天是為你好喔也是為了我們整個國家的體制我講錯了我剛剛講說第一個我先肯定你今天這個事情你是反對的嘛你甚至進一步的陸上風機影響到這個環境我現在是進一步說我現在不是只有對你這個要求像所有的"},{"start":6758.991,"end":6778.773,"text":"部會首長所有的政務官本人應該信守這個原則嘛如果是你以前有過關係的特別你是創辦人那你現在接了經濟部然後講你如果說是加豐部長或者其他部的部長跟他其他關係業務有關係我相信人家也會切得乾乾淨淨我今天只是給你一個宣示機會我意思是說不是我啦"},{"start":6779.514,"end":6808.058,"text":"我只是暫時擔任經濟部長所以我講說這個地方政府不贊同的話經濟部就不會贊同任何人來當這個部長他也是不會贊同好不好部長我在講的不是只有這個案子啦我現在在講就是說所有跟你以前比較有就是說曾經從業現在如果是經濟部主管的你要比較小心但目前我不是說你有問題你已經可能要以身作則已經做出一個不錯的那算每個部會的所長本來就被這樣要求嘛"},{"start":6809.219,"end":6821.07,"text":"我們可以今天不做一個宣示可能可以宣示得更清楚一點沒有啦 你放心不是只有有沒有人去告的問題你經得起考驗就沒有問題可是這也是個政務官的一個風範謝謝委員關心好 謝謝休息五分鐘"},{"start":7090.009,"end":7091.118,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":7145.877,"end":7166.737,"text":"好 現在開會請鄭正前委員做詢答謝謝主席我想請一下郭志威部長還有我們劉繼慶主委郭部長 劉主委"},{"start":7175.453,"end":7191.145,"text":"兩位好首先我想先請一下郭部長因為昨天我在質詢總質詢的時候針對那個卓院長的部分我特別問到了一個因為我們在做那個國際採購當中要平衡那個台美貿易逆差的部分問到了一個"},{"start":7191.725,"end":7209.871,"text":"天然氣的部分那針對這個部分的時候我那時候有提到說當時說要跟美國買天然氣要從10%提高到30%那郭部長你當時你直接講到的狀態是說你要鄭重跟委員報告你從來不會提到有多少的比例然後而且你提到說這個資料可能有錯就是"},{"start":7211.411,"end":7226.32,"text":"昨天的畫面我都直接調出來了那我也覺得很疑惑啦因為我在想說我不只是從媒體看到而且重要的其實是在我在4月9號的時候就在我們紅樓101經濟委員會的時候你在回答"},{"start":7230.362,"end":7256.284,"text":"你在回答就是張其凱委員的時候你就直接講到了就是將來就是20%到30%你具體講這個部分所以我覺得我也很疑惑我在想說不就是只差幾天的時間一下怎麼會變成說我得到的資訊可能是錯誤的可不可以請部長這邊做一個簡單的回應報告委員我想這個是天然氣的部分"},{"start":7257.506,"end":7262.628,"text":"那天然氣的部分是不是會買到30%這個我想我們會根據談判的這個內容我不應該這個很貿然的講說我們會一定肯定會到30%"},{"start":7273.383,"end":7293.329,"text":"所以基本上我的依據是有來源的嘛對不對因為你很具體在經紀委員會講到了這樣的一個數字那我用這樣的方式來質詢我們的院長的時候你跳出來說我的資訊可能是錯誤的不會有這樣子的一個事情我就覺得這是什麼狀態"},{"start":7295.049,"end":7315.01,"text":"才4月9號到4月15號 隔6天的下你講的話就要收回去了但我們這樣怎麼去做我們接下來的整個報告委員這一點我想是這個樣子因為我們的變化蠻大的這裡面牽扯到現在在談判的內容所以6天你的話變化就不算了不是不算"},{"start":7317.191,"end":7336.179,"text":"所以媒體有嘛我用媒體你背詢的資料回來出來用的時候你告訴我說我的資訊是錯誤的那我這樣我怎麼能夠接受部長你理解我的意思嗎那針對這個部分我想說我們接下來要怎麼樣去談判這件事情其實我完全尊重"},{"start":7336.519,"end":7358.99,"text":"而且我也理解談判當中有很多東西可以揭露有很多東西不能揭露只是針對我昨天在總質詢的時候問到這個數字的時候你說我應用的那個數字是錯誤的我就很難接受因為你當時4月9號在我們經紀人會回答的這件事情那這部分我想說在這邊我就很清楚的跟"},{"start":7359.89,"end":7380.627,"text":"就是部長報告我在質詢運用的所引用的數據都是有來源的而且有清楚的來源而且是從你這邊講出來的東西如果說隔了六天你覺得就不算數然後理由是因為我們現在在台美談判當中的時候那很多東西都不算數那我們這樣政策很難推動啊"},{"start":7381.127,"end":7406.661,"text":"好不好這邊特別跟部長這邊做一個清楚的一個說明那我想說接下來的時候我想請教一下劉主委因為你在簡報當中你特別提到了一個台灣加一這個部分那台灣加一的部分其實我們賴總統他特別提到的一個情況就是說台灣加一就是台灣加美國的一個新布局對不對我這樣理解有沒有錯"},{"start":7408.878,"end":7422.665,"text":"這是總統的意見 對那總統的意見對嘛台灣加美國就是一個全球的新佈局嘛OK那因為你剛剛的報告當中你也特別提到了這個部分"},{"start":7423.385,"end":7436.434,"text":"那我想說台灣要加一這一是什麼東西我在想說也許我們本來在想他可能有一些更彈性的一個調整而不是只是設定在美國那總統既然定調說他是美國的狀態我們對台灣加一就是我們希望還是實現這個經濟日不落帝國"},{"start":7443.819,"end":7469.738,"text":"只是因為你剛剛也特別提到了因為總統特別提到說台灣加1加1就是美國那我其實是有點擔心因為台灣其實它本來就是貿易導向的國家它其實應該是要更多元化跟國際接軌這很重要所以跟台灣加1這部分還牽涉到了一個脫中入北我這邊我也請教一下那個主委我們脫中入北這個概念是怎麼樣子"},{"start":7471.343,"end":7476.103,"text":"郭忠祿北不好意思我不太清楚您這個意思是北是什麼"},{"start":7477.148,"end":7501.538,"text":"很好喔 如果連國發會主委都不知道賴總統講脫中入北是什麼意思的時候那我們的廠商 我們的企業我們其他的經濟部 其他各部會要怎麼去講脫中入北脫中入北這個部分也是賴總統直接講的喔我說明一下喔 我們的簡報上面我們今天講的兩件事喔如果你早上有聽我講喔美國佔全球進口市場13.4%"},{"start":7504.319,"end":7509.56,"text":"全球美國之外的市場還有86.6%我們希望引導廠商能夠分散市場進入全球那美國是因為深化我們跟美國的合作這個沒問題我只是針對因為脫中入北這個部分"},{"start":7522.944,"end":7546.352,"text":"我不太理解就像你的反應跟我的反應是一樣的因為所謂北是什麼意思因為台灣其實在20世紀下半的部分的時候當時華沙公約組織解散的時候很多人就講說北方國家的時候就是一個先進的國家概念所以台灣原本就在北方國家之列所以脫中入北這邊的時候我覺得在目前整個"},{"start":7547.992,"end":7562.907,"text":"美國重新要調整國際經濟格局的時候我覺得特別的一個重要所以我為什麼會把台灣加1跟拖中入北這兩件事情拿起來討論就是因為台灣目前為止第一個最大的貿易"},{"start":7564.228,"end":7584.851,"text":"對象其實還是在中國大陸去年佔了20%那麼美國這邊佔18%點多那美國也成長得很快 這都沒有問題那台灣要擁抱美國 這是說實話 我覺得台灣原本跟美國關係就非常的緊密而且台灣的朝野基本上都是親美的"},{"start":7585.231,"end":7602.972,"text":"我的認為是這樣子所以我們跟美國這邊有更好的連結度我覺得也沒有問題只是在目前因為美國的對等關稅的時候全世界都在重新考量跟美國的一個距離當中而且我覺得可能會產生兩個世界格局的一個不同的"},{"start":7603.753,"end":7619.265,"text":"貿易陣營的時候台灣要怎麼去做很重要是不是完全壓在美國的身上台灣加一完全壓在美國的身上還是我們同時重新要去讓台灣更多元化去進行"},{"start":7620.286,"end":7641.905,"text":"美國以外的一個貿易的一個互動跟格局這也是我特別關心的一個點所以今天針對就是主委跟部長在今天的一個委員會當中的時候我特別提到這個點就台灣這邊加一我希望這個一委員我的報告第二頁寫得很清楚台灣加一佈局全球"},{"start":7642.145,"end":7656.299,"text":"理解 理解只是因為我們總統不是這樣講我們總統講台灣家又台灣家美國總統的政策很清楚就是要做經濟日不落國也就是希望我們協助台商能夠佈局全球理解 這個也是我的目標"},{"start":7658.681,"end":7683.731,"text":"那我只是希望說因為針對這個部分的時候呢我希望我們有更好的一個戰略讓台灣能夠更面向就是世界不同的一個經濟體都能夠有好的一個互動那這個部分我在這邊先打住我最後一個部分因為您跟郭部長都在那我想特別提到的一個情況其實是因為"},{"start":7686.796,"end":7701.881,"text":"總預算的複議已經過了35天了總統公告也已經公告到今天是第36天我看到的一個狀態國發會這邊的時候我們有很多的解凍案總共經濟委員會總共有98個解凍案"},{"start":7705.302,"end":7726.201,"text":"那其中在國發會這邊的時候呢專案報告就使得動之有4個案書面報告就可以動之的有15案那書面報告之後要同意使得動之有2個案經濟部這邊的時候呢專案報告使得動之有21個案書面報告就可以動之的有17個案"},{"start":7727.722,"end":7736.396,"text":"那到目前為止的時候我想請一下劉主委跟郭部長我們國發會跟經濟部有送了多少解凍案進經濟委員會來"},{"start":7740.733,"end":7762.535,"text":"跟委員報告我們現在大部分的報告都準備好了啦那但是有些數字因為還在釐清中所以我們還在等那個這個確定的數字大概什麼時候可以送進來下個禮拜嗎因為有些數字因為他給的當時在統三那部分有些數字不夠還要等分配所以我們因為有點"},{"start":7763.436,"end":7777.332,"text":"我們在等那個這個足跡總署的分配什麼時候會送進來什麼時候送進來他們確定之後我們就會送過來我們基本上報告都寫好了OK 顧部長這邊呢我們也是一樣因為那個統三的部分我們到底要怎麼樣調這個是個問題"},{"start":7780.92,"end":7802.006,"text":"這個部分因為我覺得書面報告送進來的時候就可以直接動用的時候可是到目前為止其實是零我們整個經紀人會動了98個案子一個案子都沒有送進來這其中包括了我們產發署也有一個直接書面報告就可以解凍的案子也沒有送進來標準局也沒有送進來"},{"start":7803.206,"end":7823.836,"text":"制裁局也沒有送進來 水利署沒有送進來 商業發展署沒有送進來 能源署也沒有送進來那麼國發會這邊的一個檔案局也都沒有送進來這都是一個很簡單可以就解凍的案子那我不知道是現在是因為更高層的一個政治決策還是我們各部會"},{"start":7825.325,"end":7846.465,"text":"或者是各署各局偷懶了所以我們沒有送進來那這個部分我希望因為主委剛剛提到的一個數字這個問題我相信它正常應該可以很快有那我希望就是劉主委跟郭部長能夠用最快的速度把可以直接用書面報告解凍的案子就直接送進委員會可不可以這個我們回去會來努力"},{"start":7851.786,"end":7876.677,"text":"好那這個部分我希望用最快的速度因為我覺得能夠做行政部門能夠做我們就盡力的去做那麼盡力的去做尤其兩位都是攸關整個台灣整個經貿發展很重要的一個部門那我們希望對於這樣的行政效率的時候能夠加速的提升能夠解凍就盡速的解凍不要拖謝謝"},{"start":7878.22,"end":7878.58,"text":"主席有請"},{"start":7908.686,"end":7912.487,"text":"主委還有那個郭部長好兩位好這個先談這個預算解凍案"},{"start":7927.408,"end":7955.351,"text":"這個部分的通商這是立法院一直以來都有的通商然後呢通商其實就是授權給行政部門所以組織總署這麼慢這個有他的一個特殊的考量那我認為是行政院院長特殊的考量但是我們作為部會的首長要去協助溝通協調尤其是"},{"start":7956.925,"end":7985.657,"text":"經濟部尤其是經濟部因為這涉及到很多我們的經濟的發展尤其是我們現在又面臨這個川普的關稅的問題所以這個部分解凍案非常很清楚很明確怎麼樣的時候解凍條件都很明確通商就是就是授權給行政院到底要刪哪個那更好啊"},{"start":7986.853,"end":8015.867,"text":"所以這個都不是理由這是第一個第二個要跟剛才那個鄭正前委員提到脫中入北這個是最新的是這個在民進黨中央黨部開會的時候一個專題報告然後賴總統當時他以這個民進黨主席的身份主持這個會議他很贊同脫中入北"},{"start":8017.062,"end":8023.86,"text":"然後被引申為托中入美所以這個不是一個大議題非常重要對我們整個經貿"},{"start":8025.94,"end":8045.592,"text":"有很大的關係所以這個部分這個當然主委不知道這個事情所以這個部分還是要審慎的該溝通該建議的就應該建議這個它的影響的層面應該要做一個審慎的提供給這個"},{"start":8048.194,"end":8058.058,"text":"總統來去做一個參考來做一個好這個就請就請那個劉志偉請回座好這個部長是"},{"start":8061.123,"end":8071.527,"text":"這個美國總統川普真的是上次我們已經談過他是多變非常多變然後上次我們也提到75個已聯繫美國對這個國家當初你也認為我們是在這75個裡面這個是先維持10%但是我們很遺憾的就是說這個這樣的一個"},{"start":8087.093,"end":8109.874,"text":"美國所批貿易談判對象美國財政部長貝森特他提了這五個優先談判的國家我們沒有被列入所以我們要積極我們要加油我們要透過各種各種的管道各種管道要去跟這個美國尤其是"},{"start":8110.973,"end":8135.488,"text":"尤其是台積電已經去了透過他的管道啊他們的關係啊所以很多的一個要去積極的部分這個部分是這個我的建議因為在這樣的一個美國首批談判對象裡面他列了相關的這些時程跟各國的立場然後呢很重要的這個"},{"start":8140.489,"end":8168.403,"text":"美國財政部長提到通常第一個達成協議的人會拿到最好的協議你看這個是一個所以我們要積極要加油在這樣的一個非常不穩定的川普總統的情況之下要過透過各種各種的管道當然我們的談判的籌碼"},{"start":8170.236,"end":8195.986,"text":"也要善用上次我有建議我們也要善用這個部長經濟部的報告今天也提到了這個協助國內廠商擴大國際市場在短期方面在中長期方面都有提了非常詳細的非常詳細的一個說明當然就是要繼續剛剛部長也提到會繼續提起"},{"start":8199.889,"end":8224.891,"text":"這個產業界各方的意見各方的意見這個是都應該要繼續的部分當然這個這個面臨這個多變而且是非常非常的不穩定的而且多變的總統川普總統的一個情況之下確實是有他的難度但是必須要去積極要去積極那這個上次"},{"start":8227.844,"end":8252.059,"text":"這個880億的部分在經濟部所提的這些項目裡面除了經費額度院長有時候可以再考量到底是要增加還是要減少當然會涉及到談判的結果當然會涉及到談判的結果所以這個部分是一個在我們在跟產業界溝通協調或是說在這個金額"},{"start":8254.724,"end":8276.717,"text":"到底要多少的情況之下當然這業界的部分你們都考量到但是我們也必須去考慮到這個勞工勞工的部分那所以也要去去跟這些業界勞工親王不要受影響政府"},{"start":8277.816,"end":8301.394,"text":"怎麼樣去投入相關的資源去協助企業界但是勞工的部分千萬不要受影響那另外就是時間的關係這個除了業界的建議那因為在野黨國民黨跟縣市首長而這些縣市國民黨的縣市首長也跟業界"},{"start":8302.782,"end":8330.382,"text":"有很多的一個這個了解所提出的這些譬如說第一項紓困優先擴大規模兩千億這個也都拿來這個國發會跟這個經濟部包括別的部會都應該所以這個不是不是像某某個委員所講的只有入客來台不是只有這裡面沒有寫到入客來台所以第一項這個"},{"start":8332.078,"end":8355.117,"text":"蘇昆約擴大規模然後呢這個相關的擴大內需觀光先行產業升級這個部分是一個啟動國際談判擴展多元所以我們的那個就是談判或是怎麼樣去因應或是去規劃因應的時候各方的意見各方的意見都給予這個"},{"start":8357.666,"end":8385.975,"text":"來去做評估去採納這個是一個在這樣一個面臨非常困難的而且是從所未有的部長是不是從所未有報告委員我想這些部分都是方向那這個事實上我們現在政府都有在進行我們有具體的目標我們有具體的數字"},{"start":8387.426,"end":8388.069,"text":"那也謝謝這個國民黨"},{"start":8391.243,"end":8417.324,"text":"大概這個方向大家都差不多啦但是沒有方法那我們是目前來講具體的做法都有我們也歡迎各位能夠就我們現在的具體的做法上面譬如說剛才講說880億可能不足這個也謝謝委員的關注那我們在這個地方我們也談過了如果880億是不夠的我們願意往上加碼謝謝委員的提示"},{"start":8418.846,"end":8432.139,"text":"當然也許不足也許太多啊就看談判的結果吧所以這個部分是談判是非常非常的重要這個相關的籌碼我們要善用好不好是謝謝謝謝請謝一鳳召委諮詢"},{"start":8450.42,"end":8472.132,"text":"謝謝主席 我想要請國發會的劉主委跟財政部的理事長請劉主委 理事長主委 你剛才在報告的時候 你有提到就是美國其實占全球市場只有大概是1.3成左右進口的市場 貨品進口 不含服務"},{"start":8477.086,"end":8494.436,"text":"這是財政部的資料嘛 沒有錯嘛那我國對主要國家出口的金額我們看到了是中國大陸 美國還有東協佔前三名嘛那第一名就是中國大陸那在我們不要"},{"start":8495.649,"end":8514.705,"text":"就是中國大陸與美國的其他市場請問劉主委我們應該從哪裡來擴大我國的出口市場跟委員報告其實全球的市場是在滾動的在不同的國家在不同的時間會有不同的建設跟不同的方案"},{"start":8515.726,"end":8535.884,"text":"譬如說在五年前美國對於這個智慧醫療非常的重視那個市場就會起來那智慧醫療補助結束市場就會下去那歐洲其實在這幾年在通訊上面會起來那包括最近像以供給機最近比較大的市場會比較崛起的市場是印度跟土耳其那其實"},{"start":8537.734,"end":8553.681,"text":"我們的產業必須依據不同產業所發展的地方來進行這個市場的攻略才會比較有效率因為它是一個起落的起起落落的狀態那我們沒辦法說現在哪一個市場就是主市場"},{"start":8554.341,"end":8580.877,"text":"要依據產業的特性跟那個產業在明年跟今年的變化來選擇所以我們的主張是希望透過冒險去掌握到市場的趨勢變化去讓廠商知道現在市場在哪些地方崛起的比較快譬如說現在在北非跟東非其實在建築市場是起來的比較快那要掌握這樣的一個訊息才有辦法掌握真正的市場"},{"start":8581.94,"end":8594.59,"text":"但是我們知道我們如果根據這個表來看我們看到東協其實在這一次對美的關稅裡面我們有非常多的廠商也在東協的國家裡面"},{"start":8598.035,"end":8614.961,"text":"我們知道了在關稅的談判對於我國的產業有利的情況下就是第一個就是對於其他主要的競爭國家我們對美談判的時候必須要比他們的關稅更優惠是不是"},{"start":8616.415,"end":8640.632,"text":"如果就市場的攻略倒不再是跟美國的談判而是我們跟東協之間的關稅的問題那第二個事情是我們要從做去做工廠變成做市場我們過去以東協來講多半是以東協作為工廠那我們希望將來他也可以把東協作為市場那他要在策略上必須進行一些轉變"},{"start":8641.656,"end":8670.228,"text":"所以你会你认为我们应该要协助我们的厂商在东协里面扩大市场吗我们其实两个步骤一个步骤是美国的主市场怎么协助台商能够在美国的市场取得比较好的地位第二个事情在美国以外的市场如何分散风险我们希望协助他们去分散风险那如你看到我们现在日本跟欧洲的市场全部都下降了是不是"},{"start":8671.599,"end":8690.556,"text":"出口都下降了那未來我們怎麼樣是因為匯率的問題嗎還是什麼其他因素這個必須依據產業別來看它升降的因素有些是升有些是降那我們降要解決降的理由然後升的話要掌握升的機會再往上走"},{"start":8691.483,"end":8708.835,"text":"那怎麼樣解決呢這個還是要去切割到產業別我們在產業有一個名字叫GMV叫Growth Market Value就是在談其實全球都會分析出來在不同的產業在不同的國家每一年這一塊的市場是成長還是下降我們只要掌握到這個數據就可以去去執行"},{"start":8710.356,"end":8716.4,"text":"那我們具體的方向當然產業別會有差異但是我們具體的方向我們可以怎麼樣子擴大對歐洲或者是其他的東協國家我們怎麼樣子擴大我們廠商在那些國家的利基點"},{"start":8732.35,"end":8747.47,"text":"怎麼樣子可以讓我們台灣的整個全球的市場整體擴大那你總要有目標嘛不能夠永遠都在這裡說各個產業別上上下下上上下下那我們的目標在哪裡啊委員講的是對的所以我們現在才開始在"},{"start":8752.674,"end":8775.899,"text":"才开始要去建立这样的一个资讯提供给厂商做参考这个我上周已经请我们同仁开始进行规划但是要进入一个的新市场除了建立通路之外还有受到法规的影响包括整个通路的影响的建立所以我们第二步会来协助建立通路的能力让厂商有能力去进行这个新市场的开发"},{"start":8776.604,"end":8801.814,"text":"好 谢谢你都没有给次长讲到话人家次长对于关税的资料也掌握得非常清楚你们都没有借重一下我们都已经有情况相关的资料提供给经济部对 你都没有借重一下次长的相关你们都没有做横向的联系我们一直都有横向的联系那次长请回我们再请郭部长请郭部长"},{"start":8807.062,"end":8833.149,"text":"主委部長我想請問一下貝森特他點名這五個國家是先談關稅的國家這樣子對我們是好還是不好美國他說了如果先談判者就有先行的優勢那請問這樣子對我們來說是好還是不好報告委員我想在這個地方我再一次跟委員報告"},{"start":8834.73,"end":8852.187,"text":"我們在4月11號已經跟美方來做了諮商了所以我們是在這個第一他們所你剛才所講的這個第一批的前一批我們就已經進入了那我們在那個談判的內容裡面談的是對等的關稅"},{"start":8853.348,"end":8879.327,"text":"跟非关税贸易障碍以及出国管制等等这些多项经贸的议题这最起码我们跟美国说我要跟你谈判的就是这些议题美方大概到目前为止他们也同意跟我们谈这些问题所以谈判我跟你们报告谈判不管是怎么样子所有的谈判一定经过三个阶段第一个阶段确定我们要谈什么"},{"start":8879.907,"end":8907.183,"text":"好在那一次的會談當中即便你沒有參與我要問的是美方有沒有給我們清單這個我不是談判小組你不是談判小組啊你要掌握啊你們兩個總不能都沒有掌握劉主委你有沒有掌握我們沒有參與談判所以你也不知道美方有沒有給我們待解決的清單有沒有這個我不清楚"},{"start":8911.125,"end":8928.34,"text":"國貿 國貿署也不清楚他也不知道這表示說我們之間大家在談的都是非常的聚焦了沒有衍生新的命題了所以我們也沒有收到新的指示那我要再問的是"},{"start":8929.895,"end":8949.16,"text":"川普總統他在他的Twitter宣布揮打會擴大在美國的投資以及他是跟5家台積電以外的5家公司他們會就是在美國發展AI5000億的AI基礎設施會不會加劇整個半導體供應鏈向美移動"},{"start":8959.688,"end":8983.939,"text":"跟委員報告這個正好說明了我們跟美國供應鏈是一體的那對台商而言會增加商業機會因為投資的只是一個過程是一個手段手段要達到的目的是商機所以呢這500個billion的商機對台灣台商而言是一個巨大商機可取得的所以呢我是我們是很正向的看這件事情"},{"start":8984.039,"end":9005.538,"text":"那半導體供應鏈會不會向美國移動中下游整個帶過去這個對台灣整個供應鏈大家都很緊張產業跟著商業機會走不會造成產業的技術流失這個是台灣過去這30年40年來的全球化過程中都掌握得很清楚"},{"start":9006.218,"end":9022.643,"text":"那這點委員是可以放心的因為每一個企業對自己的機密一定有一套獨到的方法去守住它因為這是它的生命競爭力只要總部在這裡就不會變化那輝達呢 輝達 對 總部嘛輝達總部在這裡 所以輝達的技術也在他手上所以輝達未來在台灣的投資會不會暫緩"},{"start":9031.348,"end":9044.041,"text":"您從這個案子可以看得出來我們台商跟輝達是一個完整的供應鏈整合是相當完美的那只是讓我們彼此共同對外來的發展鎖得更緊更有未來好 謝謝"},{"start":9061.136,"end":9082.847,"text":"現在請呂毅林委員作詢答謝謝主席 請郭部長郭部長委員好部長"},{"start":9083.888,"end":9090.313,"text":"美國原先規劃了台灣要課徵32%的對等關稅在4月9日宣布了各國的對等關稅暫緩了90天而且只是徵收了10%的基準關稅這也是有給我們充裕的時間可以對於未來整個情勢的演變做好準備"},{"start":9107.105,"end":9133.309,"text":"那所以說我們的行政院也特別也下鄉了去做一個我們產業的傾聽之旅來針對這個產業的對對等干稅所面臨的這個困境還有什麼需求的部分的話來做協助那部長你有親自過去第一站就到我們桃園包括桃園台中彰化跟高雄那部長你也聽到說產業很多的需求這些需求除了你們六個層面去給協助幫忙之外"},{"start":9136.53,"end":9164.653,"text":"那很多產業所提出來的問題部長你認為這些問題你有什麼解決的方案或者是你還有加強哪些部分嗎是 報告委員我想很多的這個在這個座談過程中發現有一些剛開始我們可能稍微沒有想到的問題那也非常好透過這樣的一個座談我們發現有一些需要改正譬如說很多的這個業者關心我們會不會雨天收傘"},{"start":9166.53,"end":9195.057,"text":"那這個問題是當初我們沒有想像到的那也謝謝大家的關心我們馬上做出一個這個就貸展延的這樣的一個措施就是說就有了貸款當你有認為有需要的時候那麼你這個企業要繼續的經營下去利息可以繳我們同意馬上展延六個月展延六個月然後你可以繳息不還本然後信保基金的配合這些展延的保證"},{"start":9196.638,"end":9211.899,"text":"這個就是第一件事情那再來就是說有的廠商反應說你這個保證的額度是不是能夠再加大一點那我們這方面都有調整不是 你有認真聽因為我有參加這個座談"},{"start":9213.681,"end":9223.129,"text":"所以產業提出來的不只是這些也有關於電的問題還有土地的問題等等就是因為他們本來要投資的現在因為對等關係的問題可能會暫緩投資或者是設廠的問題這個部分的話我們也希望橫向方面不管是跟國發會或者財政部那邊也給他們適當的一個比較暢通的溝通的管道好不好"},{"start":9235.919,"end":9255.273,"text":"是在桃園的部分確實如委員所指教的土地的問題我們現在因為桃園大概土地已經比較少了可以做生產的土地會比較少我們現在在南部嘉義以南大概有四個工業區是經濟部所屬的產業園區"},{"start":9257.495,"end":9273.684,"text":"那這裡面大概加起來好幾百公頃那我們採取因為大家現在都覺得土地太貴像桃園的土地真的就是非常的貴不利於生產所以我們幫助他們我們現在的土地只租不售只租不售"},{"start":9274.204,"end":9285.228,"text":"那對於這個租金的部分我們都可以考慮在他現場的時候考慮給他一些或者是融資或者是租賃問題對這個部分我們都會根據業者他們的這個需求滾動式的這個改善也就是幫助這個業者能夠順利的這個返台然後在台灣所以部長這個我們已經開了四場後面還有幾場嗎還是各縣市會陸續依序"},{"start":9301.693,"end":9330.81,"text":"各地來展開各地來展開這些因為你都去座談的市場你知道業界很多聲音很多需求必須要給大家給我們長官們知道才能夠給他們溝通給他們一個管道給他們做個協助這個才是我們的本意啦所以我們希望這方面的話我們就依序陸續在辦後面還有幾場呢你說辦那個座談會是不是對座談會我們大概目前我收到的大概有這個三場"},{"start":9331.67,"end":9342.32,"text":"還要再增加三場新北 台南等等加起來有三場好 部長會有這種對等關稅的問題就是美國他要解決的他們這個逆差的問題嘛那這個逆差的問題的話我們賴總統的話也特別說要對美國擴大來增加這個"},{"start":9350.307,"end":9363.779,"text":"採購那部長您這邊的Title也說要針對這個最主要大宗的這個天然氣的採購那我們看到我們對美國的天然氣的採購是百分之在我們整個進口量來講的話是佔了百分之九點八"},{"start":9364.72,"end":9384.334,"text":"那因為美國我們購買的話運輸成本的問題要考慮到所以我們才會只有9.8%因為在美國運輸的話大概要20天左右那其他國家像澳洲的話大概是10天卡達的話大概是15天左右那現在我們跟美國擴大這天然氣的採購部長有沒有想到這成本問題那當然在3月20號的時候有提到說美國的阿拉斯加啦"},{"start":9389.798,"end":9394.203,"text":"阿拉斯加如果採購天然氣的話它的運輸的話會縮減到10天那我們成本當然會降低但是還是未支出 還沒有採購雖然要投資將近440億美元但是哪些國家會投資"},{"start":9408.22,"end":9421.964,"text":"有順利嗎 就算你順利的話也在2030年那這個五年的時間我們對美國的採購天然氣的話那有可能就會到他們的本土地方那本土的運輸還是一樣這麼久的時間運輸成本還是會提高難道部長還要讓我們中油跟台電要承受這個成本虧損的問題這麼嚴峻嗎"},{"start":9432.077,"end":9461.096,"text":"報告委員我想這個就是成本的問題啦那採購多少量量價這些都有關係啦那所以剛才那個鄭委員也有問我這個說為什麼我當初跟他講這個跟別的委員講這個幅度不太一樣確實是這樣的就是說因為量價的關係我們當然方向是未來的方向可能是朝一個比較高一點的目標啦這就是看談判的這個樣的一個結果是怎麼樣子"},{"start":9462.317,"end":9478.249,"text":"所以我們也沒有辦法確定但是以目前來講不到10%的這個採購量我們當然是衡量怎麼樣子透過採購的力量然後可以讓我們取得的這個成本更低這個是我們的目標10年2000億的採購"},{"start":9481.13,"end":9505.936,"text":"剛剛有人問到這清單問題我覺得這清單我們不要被動譬如他給我們什麼東西我們就買什麼要我們台灣有需要什麼我們去買什麼譬如說你天然氣我們有需要我們去購買那除了這個主要的這個原料跟天然氣以外還有很多的像機械的用具或者是電機設備精密的儀器跟航空器等等這些也是我們進口的大品項裡面"},{"start":9506.676,"end":9522.306,"text":"所以我們也可以把這些我們需求的量的多少把它放入清單我們主動出局主動提供去溝通這才是我們談判對雙方都有利的是不是是的我想談判都是彼此大家雙方來交換彼此的需求不是單方面的啦"},{"start":9522.726,"end":9536.617,"text":"都是雙方面的彼此交換需求然後去談出一個好的良善的一個結果所以我想委員所提示的這一些部分也都是我們考慮的範圍還有就是說美國對於各國的這個對等關稅率那其中"},{"start":9544.554,"end":9567.406,"text":"有其他國家會擔心一個洗產地為什麼提到這個部分就像菲律賓的話才18%新加坡的話10%那菲律賓的課徵這個18%的稅率遠低於台灣的32%那我們政府若是依照你原先的計畫要到菲律賓設置這個產業園區的話會不會被美方認為說你是有特定要洗產地的嫌疑"},{"start":9568.627,"end":9593.362,"text":"報告委員我想我們目前大家在談的32% 18%這些都是暫定的稅率所以現在這些都已經被調到所謂的基本的稅率10%那我想這90天以後才會明朗化所以對我們來講我們都在爭取在台灣台灣的這個業者都可以找到一個具有競爭力的這樣的一個關稅條件"},{"start":9596.184,"end":9608.33,"text":"那我們在達成總統的日不落國的競爭條件也是一樣我們會幫助台灣的業者找到具有競爭位置競爭的區域來把他的市場擴大我們剛剛講過了全球的市場"},{"start":9615.333,"end":9636.452,"text":"我想剛才劉主委也講得非常清楚全球市場不是只有美國全球市場這麼大我們的模式就是幫助台灣的產業找到具有競爭力的方向找到這樣的競爭力的產品讓我們在台灣幫助它提升它的競爭力這個是我們經濟部最主要的工作"},{"start":9637.372,"end":9663.266,"text":"所以在這邊也提醒部長包括我們的劉組委跟我們次長那針對於這個對等關稅我們還是在這個整個清單裡面的話我們不是一定是天然氣也可以有新的核能新的核能的採購的話也是一個擴大採購的一個方式這也是可以做的那至於說這個稀產地這個方面的話我們也要多些關心"},{"start":9663.886,"end":9664.246,"text":"我們現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢答"},{"start":9692.418,"end":9693.002,"text":"好 先請郭部長"},{"start":9701.886,"end":9724.22,"text":"國務部長 先請教一下因為大家都關心這個美國的財長點名說優先的五國 韓國 英國 澳洲 印尼跟日本那我們印度跟日本那我們現在因為當時我們的數據上面其實我們應該之前有先談過了嘛部長現在你所了解的狀況是怎麼樣報告委員我們的狀況就是說4月11號我們已經跟美國做這個諮商了"},{"start":9730.031,"end":9754.45,"text":"我們跟諮商了那主要的內容我們在這裡跟委員報告主要的內容就談對等關稅第二個非關稅貿易障礙以及出國管制等這一些多項的這個經貿的議題已經談已經有談了嘛其實也是在賴總統五項那個原則的來跟他們談的嘛整個回應整個川普總統美國政府的回應是"},{"start":9755.151,"end":9777.29,"text":"所以這五點的部分其實都跟美方已經在做談判了嘛是對所以有初步來談了那但是他為什麼財長這樣講他這個點名優先我是先是優先來跟這五個國家先簽訂他們朝這個目標來前進嗎還是說為什麼沒有含在台灣裡面我們已經談了所以其實有談了我們是有談納塔的以色列"},{"start":9778.491,"end":9800.601,"text":"談嘛 在我們之前他也先跟越南談嘛所以這個是有進度的啦對 所以就像賴總統前幾天講的嘛跟以色列跟台灣我們是第一批在談的嘛我們一直在談那但是財長點名這五國也是他們現在優先要處理的目標啦報告委員是這樣子啦談判像我個人的經驗來講談國際談判我在工作這個快50年"},{"start":9806.229,"end":9807.953,"text":"那我這個國際談判也談蠻多的這是我們第一個會去確認這個談判的命題是什麼"},{"start":9814.451,"end":9842.206,"text":"要談什麼東西先確認這樣子不然的話講一堆大家拋來拋去的然後會決定談的內容跟程序這個是第一個先界定的部分第二個才會進入實質的討論大家把資料拿出來實質的討論彼此的利益然後再去談出來第三個在做整體的conclusion我想這是談判的一個過程"},{"start":9842.946,"end":9858.32,"text":"但是我們這一次談的我相信不脫離這種國際談判的一個格式因為美國要跟這麼多的國家談判其實也不容易啦對他來講他一定要確定說你要跟我談什麼 我跟你談什麼"},{"start":9859.841,"end":9887.1,"text":"這個所以是過程所以為什麼他一個禮拜只能談五個國家所以70個大家都要跟他談嘛所以說現在有的會去解讀說不包括台灣事實上台灣已經在談了啦台灣已經談過了OK好我們只是再次的讓外界清楚啦不要被好像某個這樣的講法好像一副台灣是沒有在進行台灣事實上剛剛部長已經提到4月11號已經在進行當中了4月11號已經談過了經濟部的同仁也有參與其中嘛對不對"},{"start":9887.96,"end":9903.476,"text":"經濟部的同仁這個談判小組我不是那麼清楚所以有談了有談就對了沒關係有些讓部長做一些保留這個沒關係那再來我請教那接下來是電費的問題因為我們現在動漲那動漲了之後"},{"start":9908.854,"end":9937.532,"text":"部長現在動漲之後其實因為台電當時為了吸收整個這個油價的部分上漲的部分吸收了大概六千億嘛那我們會再提出最佳預算嗎我到地方上聽到很多人都說接下來他們很擔憂包括美國的這些關稅的問題的時候很擔憂接下來的電價在七八月的時候的這些夏季電價的部分那很多人甚至希望政府要來撥補來支持啊會再提出最佳預算嗎"},{"start":9939.5,"end":9950.262,"text":"報告委員我們會綜合考量實際進行的狀況那麼下季我們下季電價我們在之前就已經"},{"start":9951.847,"end":9975.869,"text":"在討論漲不漲上一次上一次的討論裡面就已經確定這個不漲價對先不漲對不對是這個樣子這樣的進行對那但是台下一波討論這個電價電價委員會他們討論是在這個九月底九月份的對那會不會再提出來經濟部考不考慮再提出來追加預算來降低台電的壓力我們現在是這樣子我上一次有呼籲過"},{"start":9977.17,"end":9999.106,"text":"就是我們考慮所有的這個國家的這個CPI然後這些狀況那考慮這個關稅的這個衝擊所以我們在3月的時候就提出來不漲價但是我們真的為了台電的經營台電的財務的狀況我們真的希望我們當初所提出來2000億的撥補"},{"start":10001.147,"end":10030.619,"text":"能夠大院能夠通過讓我們可以拿到這個2000億撥補來改善我台電的差異所以部長的意思應該是還是要繼續支持希望能夠支持2000億一樣來撥補台電那至於用什麼樣的形式的部分的話經濟部會來研議啦齁但是事實上還是希望用這個2000億撥補這樣的形式上來協助台電這樣的話能夠對我們台電馬上有提綱確定的這樣這個力險的這樣的改善效果我也希望把那個所有的方式全部提出來啦好不好"},{"start":10030.879,"end":10052.785,"text":"就是說因為現在聽起來在野黨很多也慢慢也覺得說應該對的產業不要受到影響所以希望來支持台電的時候我也希望部長把這些方案也再次把它提出來好不好讓台電不要承受這麼巨大的一個財務上的壓力是 謝謝委員好 那再來我請教一下現在我們關稅有881的一個支持方案裡面有700億是跟工業有關"},{"start":10055.186,"end":10067.844,"text":"這個應該是一個底標嘛就是說因為隨著談判的結果會有不同的跟美國談判會有不同的一些狀況嘛對不對但是政府支持這些基礎傳統產業支持中小企業支持受影響的產業這個態度沒有變嘛對不對"},{"start":10069.867,"end":10090.926,"text":"完全沒有變所以我們會隨時來談議長但我想這是一個底標就是說當然我們希望最後談的結果很好大家不受影響或者是影響很低那當然政府就可以比較不用花這麼多的財源但是如果他的影響是很大的因為談判處在變動那這881是底標嘛有可能再往上追加是吧"},{"start":10091.566,"end":10118.886,"text":"这个我想院长在座谈会的时候也都有指示要请大家放心基本上基于辅助这个产业具有竞争力的状况之下我们也不希望这些产业失去这样的市占率比如说它在美国的市场占有率它如果失掉了然后要再回去其实也不太容易所以我们希望在这一波谈判的结果"},{"start":10119.486,"end":10125.382,"text":"完成之前這個應該就是您所說的這個底標那如果真的不足"},{"start":10126.297,"end":10156.117,"text":"我們會增加會繼續追加嘛我想這個沒有問題啦那本來今天要公布的要延後一周公布細節嘛那應該也是因為跟會跟談的也會有相關因為我們經過市場的一個座談會啊那每個業者都有提出一些新的這樣的一個建議確實當初我們在這個這個構思的時候有一些沒有放進去像這個大家的這個舊的貸款啊是不是可以延續啊等等當初沒有想到"},{"start":10156.597,"end":10184.986,"text":"那現在因為這個這個院長他有指示嘛雨天不收傘所以全力支持我們的這個產業所以在這個部分的話我們會做微調所以會延後一個禮拜對我也希望這個方案啊另外當然也希望談判的過程一方面是聽到了地方企業的聲音啊另外一方面也希望談判過程的部分對我們是有更有利的一些狀況現在當然是用比較不好的狀況去估嘛但是希望談的過程"},{"start":10185.806,"end":10201.622,"text":"有更好狀況我們現在都用那個32%的最糟糕的狀況做基本檢測這個才能夠最能夠有效的去協助到這些產業好那我們期待下禮拜出來那再來剛剛部長有提到雨天收傘這件事情我也希望"},{"start":10202.362,"end":10220.356,"text":"對於這段時間特別是不要抽銀根我幾乎聽到不管是從產業界到農業界都是這樣大家擔憂都是被抽銀根這件事情我希望這件事情還是要請包括部長 包括主委跟金管會跟整個財務部裡面都要做溝通"},{"start":10221.076,"end":10234.466,"text":"銀行在這段時間要繼續支持不要在這個時間反而緊縮了我就認為這個這是最快能夠協助產業的一個很好的方法是的好不好這請部長要持續的反映最後一個小問題可能跟你們那個但也是重大的問題"},{"start":10236.447,"end":10257.977,"text":"我兩三年前有講我們的詐騙這個相當大比例來自於臉書那其實今天我看到那個新聞其實蠻心痛的一個林建榮他是刑事警察局的他自己在抓這個防詐結果他因為點了進去之後反倒是更多的推播詐騙廣告給他我從一兩年前的時候就不斷在講臉書有絕對有能力去"},{"start":10259.057,"end":10282.705,"text":"辨別出哪些是詐騙的訊息那如果你不有效去賭你內控機制不做的話整天要警政署幫你檢查查到再告訴你再下架受騙者已經多少更何況我認為這幾乎是一個共犯嘛你詐騙者賺詐騙的錢你賺詐騙者的廣告那這當然是一個共犯結構這很惡劣啊那為什麼臉書都有條件去演算法連"},{"start":10284.325,"end":10307.556,"text":"連降載都能降流都能降得下來了有些關鍵都能降流了你最這麼容易判斷出來的詐騙的廣告你卻無法辯對它我認為臉書是沒有誠意也不認真甚至於共犯結構在處理這個問題我希望訴法部當然在處理我希望經濟部和國發會展現你們的影響力給臉書更大的壓力好不好不要想要來賺台灣這樣的錢但是連這種詐騙這種錢都不放過我認為這有點惡劣啦"},{"start":10313.039,"end":10336.192,"text":"這其實做得到 我一兩年前就一直在講這件事情那我認為我請經濟部跟國安法會能夠更加重視這問題 詐騙是人民最痛絕的讓很多人傾家蕩產 甚至於犧牲了生命 輕生了我認為這個部分政府要更強要作為 而臉書現在既然佔最高的比例的時候我們希望部長跟整個主委都有影響力 對臉書也都有產業的關係"},{"start":10338.894,"end":10360.161,"text":"多跟他們溝通 請他們要重視這個問題如果要進入台灣的市場 要賺台灣的錢要負起該有的企業責任不要連這種東西該過濾掉的都不過濾掉你在平台擋掉這些詐騙廣告看不到的詐騙人數大幅減少了嘛那你連這種詐騙廣告都讓他不斷的跳出來還 因為點了一則詐騙來更多的詐騙廣告全部跳出來給你"},{"start":10361.681,"end":10387.146,"text":"這種點算難怪人家諷刺得要命好不好 這請部長跟主委請你們要放在心上不跟你們直接相關但是跟政府完全相關我希望你們協助給臉書壓力讓臉書能夠認真的解決這個問題好不好 部長是 全力以赴好 謝謝 謝謝部長好 謝謝我們現在請邱志偉委員做詢答真的喔 好 那你等一下"},{"start":10398.507,"end":10427.796,"text":"好 謝謝當然隨時都準備好了來 謝謝主席有請經濟部國務部長國會劉主委國務部長 劉主委委員好部長我很詳細看您的報告那報告當然有些重點我大概請問一下就是捷克我們設立這個所謂你境外 關內這個部分捷克已經上路了嘛"},{"start":10428.925,"end":10449.742,"text":"也可以已經上路了嗎?是那目前執行狀況怎麼樣?我們現在還是在協助國內的廠商做一些貿易諮詢那現在不是外管的經濟組就可以做了嗎?但是外管來講的話我們在那個地方"},{"start":10451.906,"end":10468.545,"text":"確實啦我們現在因為人力的問題啦因為境外關聯是一個很大的一個概念你要去捷克投資或者捷克台灣投資你找到他就可以解決所有的問題是不是你的觀念想法是這樣子沒有錯嘛不是那你的想法是怎麼樣"},{"start":10469.551,"end":10493.712,"text":"報告委員 所謂的境外 就是中華民國國境之外就是在捷克 在福岡 或者在美國某一地嘛 對不對 在境外那官內的意思是什麼官內就是屬於中華民國政府啊 可以進入協助他們落地那外管能不能協助外管很難啦 外管基本上 報告委員外管也有經濟組啊NO NO 外管是從事外交工作"},{"start":10494.757,"end":10515.523,"text":"你們經濟組當然是協助招商經濟組是附屬在裡面經濟組是您管的 是您派任的嘛你可以加強規模我的意思是說你要有這個境外官內實質的功能而不是只有表面上的意義您聽我說完如果你的人力不夠 你的授權不足傑克桑那邊 他只是一個諮詢"},{"start":10516.943,"end":10535.417,"text":"他沒辦法馬上得到他應有的協助比方說一個捷克廠商要台灣投資或者台灣去捷克投資台灣去捷克投資我透過這個那個什麼貿易外貿協會就可以了嘛所以我的意思是你要花費功能我想請教你"},{"start":10536.607,"end":10562.456,"text":"捷克成立到現在有多少的這個捷克廠商透過這個貿易投資中心來請求協助有沒有相關資料我們是基本上是輔助台灣的廠商到捷克或者是中東歐去做一些不是 你問的報告是說捷克廠商跟台灣投資也可以透過那邊去取得資賬沒有 你看到你的報告同仁是不是這樣子是雙邊的嘛"},{"start":10564.226,"end":10568.324,"text":"沒有錯吧是雙邊的 沒有錯嘛我看我很仔細在研究這個問題嘛"},{"start":10570.188,"end":10595.106,"text":"是雙邊的 捷克要來台灣投資或是台灣要去捷克投資來台灣投資是我們的投資台灣的這樣一個部門我們只要服務的是捷克商是捷克要來台灣投資對不對捷克要來台灣投資的是我們投資師的工作那我們台商要去捷克投資那個才是我們的貿易中心的工作"},{"start":10597.412,"end":10599.953,"text":"我們現在的貿協有一點稍微不足的地方貿協只做貿易推廣"},{"start":10614.739,"end":10641.078,"text":"所以這裡面有一點我贊成啦 那個保留 我贊成但是我要有實質的說你現在4月底要在福岡福岡有機會我去看看到底是怎麼運作的4月底什麼時候要成立報告委員 我們未來我們真正的落實是這樣我們在那個貿易中心將來我們要在那邊做一個虛擬的我來瞭解 我實際去瞭解一下你4月底日本設立嘛時間點出來了嗎 當時"},{"start":10643.359,"end":10654.38,"text":"我們4月21號就會揭牌我有時間去看一看 謝謝到底有沒有實施境外達到境外關聯的功能美國也會成立今年下半年也會成立"},{"start":10655.748,"end":10674.706,"text":"我覺得對中小企業的協助你除了財政部這些待會兒負稅署負稅署這個李署長是不是一起來這個相關的稅務包括出口金融支持等等輸出保惠優惠通關這些措施大概是財政部在執行那我覺得經濟部可以協助的部分"},{"start":10676.072,"end":10696.003,"text":"你水電可以給它減免 水電是經濟部國營事業你水電針對這些受影響 比如說這個船產 比如說家裡這個金屬構建這個手工具 或者機器業你水電要給它減免 讓成本可以降低 你可以做得到的"},{"start":10696.403,"end":10718.618,"text":"報告委員我想這一部分我們現在有一個措施在進行就是我們的節能減碳我們的ESCO這裡面都有一些措施我們會透過這樣子的一個辦法來協助他能夠有效率的使用能源我直接就告訴他這個這半年或者這一年受到關稅的衝擊我的水電給你減少50%我們現在水電都是虧損的狀況我知道啦 虧損當然"},{"start":10724.142,"end":10746.579,"text":"他們虧損更嚴重不是 我們現在幫助他幫助他能夠節能減碳我們有這個我是救急 不是救窮啦你能夠做你所掌握的政策工具裡面除了財政部的規劃是財政部在執行之外我說你可以做的水電的減免最直接而且對他們最有管成本馬上降低嘛這個齁"},{"start":10748.617,"end":10768.588,"text":"我跟委員報告這個部分可能會違反美國的所謂的補貼我知道WTO我也了解但是你這是個暫時性的緊急處置措施我們的方法就是趕快透過節能減碳的這樣一個措施來幫助它永遠的競爭力長期的工作"},{"start":10772.41,"end":10799.219,"text":"那馬上改 誰可以反應 我提出來 你們要不要做 你們自己去評估廠商給我說 我最直接 你最直接給我解免我的成本降低 我競爭力還可以維持 我就不會倒了這給您做參考 是 謝謝文言 劉書偉產創條例 你要政府加速產創條例投資修法我上回期我把它修了啊 為什麼你現在還修什麼他現在還沒有過"},{"start":10800.956,"end":10824.522,"text":"我委員會通過了 現在等院會院會總質詢之後就算通過了這個我當招募的時候通過的啊對我以為你另外一位在提產生條例沒有吧沒有 但是因為現在新的法案還沒有辦法公告另外經濟部這個三大投資海外方案我那天在院會質詢2027 調整一個調整你先講兩次資格調整"},{"start":10830.632,"end":10855.378,"text":"那產業調整這個部分到底公布了沒有還沒有他因為到期我們這個2024已經到期了現在2025的這個4月份我們新的跟委員報告我們針對這次的關稅問題我們有一個擴大方案包括我們的融資都擴大一倍那這個都要等院核定"},{"start":10856.525,"end":10884.363,"text":"我了解啦但是你們這個要趕快合訂而且我們產業也擴大了因為很多非中國其他地方的台商要回來因為非紅供應鏈的問題必須要回來但是你們沒有這個方案趕快公佈他們沒有辦法有所依據啊所以我要給你們趕快這三大方案延長到底內容是怎麼樣趕快公告好的另外你說產業再造基金什麼是產業再造基金"},{"start":10885.461,"end":10895.893,"text":"我們現在是有一個實驗性的基金就是過去我們去提醒產業你需要去轉型你國安會要出多少錢我們已經出了我們出了12億那總共30億的基金在第一期"},{"start":10904.562,"end":10929.872,"text":"那過去的做法是說廠商有時候聽完不見了會去動作那我們現在這個基金會有人會去購買股權之後有人進去管理協助他轉型之後再退出我跟你說不要創造新的名詞你這既然說推動產業再造產業要怎麼再造你要不要再造到什麼樣的一個一個一個境界什麼樣的程度對不對不是說你拿到12億你就說你要推動產業再造是針對傳統產業"},{"start":10932.153,"end":10936.264,"text":"突破瓶頸那你現在是跟推動傳統產業升級有什麼關係一樣的概念嘛 對不對"},{"start":10940.819,"end":10967.088,"text":"所以你要把傳統產業升級你要推到2.0版對 這是跟過去這個是不太一樣的概念那其實我們是多條路在進行這只是其中一個一條那這一條主要是說過去我們喊那麼多大家不見得會動或者是他不知道如何做我舉個例跟委員報告我們第一次提出來就有廠商主動來報名因為他們發現他們上市之後呢他們沒有國際化管理能力"},{"start":10967.788,"end":10989.674,"text":"他就很希望這個基金能夠進去協助他們因為基金要發揮功能能立即解決問題你那麼多 大家都問我說什麼是再造基金我說我要問一下劉金青 劉書偉大家都不知道什麼基金的內容再造基金到底是什麼東西能夠協助幫忙哪些事項現在川普對等關稅現在已經正式執行了是不是對中國的關稅4月9號對145萬對100多已經正式上路了嗎對"},{"start":10996.909,"end":11024.764,"text":"一個禮拜了對不對從10月9號開始一個禮拜那在中國投資的台商有沒有跟政府有相關的反應你們有沒有接到相關的訊息跟委員報告其實在屬於現在原來原來有很多台商就是規劃快速的轉回來尤其是已經台灣有工廠的他們希望利用台商的台灣的工廠能夠進行做最後組裝達到原產力的規定"},{"start":11025.624,"end":11043.645,"text":"那但是因為現在有一些屬於通訊類等等的這幾個屬於在在還在一個擴免期的部分就稍微遲到但其他的部分現在有在移動他首當其衝面臨到第一波就145%高關稅在中國投資的廠商他們一定想回來會移到第三地沒錯 沒錯"},{"start":11045.447,"end":11073.876,"text":"那他們所當前遇到的問題 我覺得145%短時間可能沒有辦法去改變 對不對所以他們勢必在最短時間之內 他們就想回來 或者移出中國回來最快 那我們能夠給他什麼樣的協助 因為他們藍莓之極啊175%耶 因為專業在中國比較多耶 是不是這樣對 所以你可能要了解這個我們還是跟經濟部的這個投資台灣辦公室 我們現在是緊密的在合作好 謝謝 謝謝主委 謝謝部長"},{"start":11074.969,"end":11079.113,"text":"好 謝謝我們現在請李昆城委員做詢答謝謝主席那我們請經濟部我們郭部長"},{"start":11102.369,"end":11122,"text":"委員好部長好 辛苦了我記得我們是在上個禮拜五4月11日透過視訊的方式跟美國進行了有關關稅的談判是不是是那美方的這個談判大概的層級方便透露嗎"},{"start":11123.211,"end":11138.867,"text":"我不是談判委員那你知不知道說談判的內容談判的內容跟委員報告就是說我們大概第一個是談這個對等關稅第二個是非關稅貿易障礙第三個出國管制"},{"start":11140.151,"end":11158.89,"text":"以上這三個命題那這三個議題本來就是我們所關心的嘛那我的意思是說跟美方談完之後有沒有我們一些政策要去做調整的到目前為止我們沒有收到談判小組的一些需求可是已經差不多一個禮拜的時間了"},{"start":11160.659,"end":11177.188,"text":"就是說談完之後還沒有說我們目前的這個不論是總統府或是行政院關於這次的這個關稅一些政策然後因為有談判之後我們有哪一些需要做調整有哪些不足的或是有哪一些下一回合繼續在跟他們談的內容"},{"start":11178.268,"end":11205.14,"text":"是報告委員談判進行中有很多不便在這裡報告的地方我知道啦但是就是說就我剛才所提到的有沒有方便可以提供訊息的地方也讓我們的業者能夠安心大家可以安心啦我想這個總統跟院長都曾經在4月12號跟大家報告過了談判的過程非常的這個順暢大概沒有什麼太大的問題"},{"start":11206.424,"end":11213.29,"text":"我可以問一下談判時間大概多久嗎這個在談判的時間多久我其實也沒有掌握"},{"start":11215.253,"end":11239.016,"text":"你都沒有想要說像我一樣去關心一下說談判單一天的視訊談判大概時間有多久然後有關經濟部的內容大概是怎麼樣我們都分工合作啦我想談判小組然後他們需要我們的資料support我們都會來準備是這樣子好那半導體的部分有談到嗎"},{"start":11241.087,"end":11266.379,"text":"我到目前為止沒有收到談判小組的指示好那預期會不會有第二輪的這個談判當然會有因為這個第一個談判是在談判決定第二次談判的時候要談什麼它裡面的重點是什麼那有沒有第二次的談判的範圍大概是在哪裡就是剛才所講的那裡面那就是第一次"},{"start":11267.66,"end":11295.929,"text":"所以第二次跟第一次談的應該會更具體更聚焦才對啊對啊是更具體更聚焦只是我們那個是在進行中的事情好那我就問說這個有關半導體跟藥品因為現在這個美國他們認為說這個是屬於這個有關國安的部分那他們有可能會再克制關稅但是不論是半導體或是藥品對我們來講都相當的重要那尤其是半導體的部分的話那我想請教一下部長就半導體這部分的話跟美方"},{"start":11296.625,"end":11323.239,"text":"談判的這個情況是怎麼樣現在還沒有進入談這個部分美國他必須要針對這個因為對美國來講半導體是一個非常重要特別是先進半導體這屬於他國安的問題所以美國在跟我們談之前他現在正在做一波國安的調查所以我們政府的立場就是密切的觀察"},{"start":11324.86,"end":11345.673,"text":"這個調查到目前到結果會怎麼樣那對我們來講我們也了解國內的半導體廠商了解他們的狀況以後我們會積極的跟美國的政府來協商因為畢竟台灣的半導體跟美國的業者彼此的關係是非常緊密的我想就您所知道的"},{"start":11346.153,"end":11359.321,"text":"比如說昨天這個AMD他們來台灣跟我們的供應鏈在開會在談事情也就是說大家很清楚AMD是Fabless的公司所有的供應鏈都是由台灣這邊來製造來組裝的"},{"start":11363.503,"end":11377.794,"text":"所以這個地方因為我們做完的東西要回到美國對他來講所有的稅對他來講都是他要付的問題不是我們付所以台灣跟美國來講在半導體這個領域裡面是完全的策略夥伴"},{"start":11379.466,"end":11406.608,"text":"所以不是只有我們關心他是user所以美國的七大科技產業幾乎都把製造圍給台灣所以這個命題來講其實對我們台灣來講對客人美國的客人更是非常的重大我知道所以我相信這個美國政府他也會考慮這樣的一個狀況大概半導體如果以美國政府的考量那50%世界的市場都是在美國"},{"start":11407.796,"end":11417.803,"text":"那你們有做過模擬關稅就像之前的關稅我們有模擬就是說大概幾%到幾%那有關於半導體的關稅你們有個模擬大概會落在多少到多少之間嗎"},{"start":11419.345,"end":11436.122,"text":"這個我想這個要由這個美國那一方面來提出來他們當然會提出來 因為他現在在做調查嘛 對不對那我們這邊應該有因應嘛 就像是之前就是說這個4月2號之前我們也是做這個關稅的模擬那現在沒想到說一下子課到32%當然後來他也做調整了 現在先10%那我的意思是說 我們經濟部有沒有對這個半導體的這個關稅"},{"start":11443.089,"end":11470.108,"text":"因為這裡面大概我們會當然會有一些模擬就是理性的模擬會怎麼樣做那非理性的模擬又會怎麼做但是超過這兩個範圍的話我們就很難去把握不過我們現在的策略上面就是希望推動國內的業者跟美國的業者共同"},{"start":11471.667,"end":11484.064,"text":"來關心這個命題然後希望也就是說不是只有我們單方面的就是我們也希望說我們也跟美方的業者來講因為最後他們的產品是由他們來做的"},{"start":11484.997,"end":11509.277,"text":"那是不是也透過他們來希望讓美國的這個不管是貿易部或是他們的這個談判單位能夠就關稅這方面一起來合作來做一個管控美國他會針對半導體跟藥品這個命題對世界丟出一個他想要談的關稅就像之前的這個鋼跟鋁這樣一樣"},{"start":11512.179,"end":11539.41,"text":"然後在各個國家來跟他談這個是談判的一個手法基本上我們會爭取讓我們台灣的廠商具有競爭力的關稅我們要求他是在一個立足點是一個非常平等的具有競爭力的關稅這個是我們跟美國的這些客戶共同努力的一個方向那我們有跟台積電有談過了嗎"},{"start":11541.414,"end":11550.367,"text":"我們跟台積電台積電是一個Fabless的公司它並不是一個品牌公司對 我說有跟我就是說有跟台積電提過說未來半導體的關稅"},{"start":11553.592,"end":11578.145,"text":"他們有沒有一個範圍我們其實跟委員報告我們其實2024年輸到美國的被認定這個半導體只有74億的美金佔全球出口量只有4.6%所以很難這樣去定義那所以你的意思是說我們要等這一個川普那邊宣布了對半導體的關稅是多少之後我們再來去跟他們談嗎還是怎麼樣"},{"start":11579.005,"end":11596.922,"text":"沒有這是我們現在大家在努力嘛大家在努力美國的客戶他們會直接跟美國的政府去反應嘛台灣這邊我們不斷的這個也是準備讓談判小組有更豐富的這些資訊嘛那將來在談判的時候可以拿出來好OK好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝我們現在請鍾嘉賓委員做詢答"},{"start":11615.882,"end":11642.618,"text":"主席 在場的委員先進 列席的政府機關組長 官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生有請我們財政部理事長還有經濟部郭部長 以及國發會的劉主委主委好次長好 部長好 主委好 題目是即時應應對關稅展延的資金需求要提早佈局未來產業的有案分工 來"},{"start":11643.277,"end":11665.186,"text":"首先請教一下次長 你看看這個本來要課高關稅 展延90天 結果科技業出貨潮本來爆倉 未來週末倉位是滿的 要趕在關稅後來有可能變高前 有貨先過去有沒有看到這樣的現象 次長除了倉位有需求之外 有沒有資金的需求"},{"start":11666.796,"end":11692.063,"text":"應該也是會有資金的需求好我們來看一下美國川普政府的超高關稅嚇倒了全國的出口業全世界出口業本來約訂單暫停結果暫緩90天現在大量訂單湧入除了原料採購才能全開有沒有本來我們的880億是要因應那種貨出不去訂單被取消融資被斷頭那現在轉過來希望說趕快給他一點融通的資金趕快要補辦進貨出料"},{"start":11695.171,"end":11720.234,"text":"財政部有沒有準備目前財政部有沒有針對我們各產業因為展延90天的現況而這個產業的資金需求能不能即時的到位報告委員其實我們所有的公股行庫實際上都有運用一些自由的資金在目前平常就在協助這些產業平常就有 這時候額外需要 我要看郭部長的臉色"},{"start":11720.854,"end":11736.336,"text":"看看有沒有轉好來 我們往下一頁 部長其實呢 洗產地的事情我問過很多次了今天呢 我就不再贅述但是還是要來了解一下到底台灣怎麼迎來其實呢 在2018年川普1.0之前我們台灣在應對"},{"start":11737.964,"end":11749.572,"text":"美國的時候我們台灣會有關鍵的零組件然後在中國沿海地區有我們的相關的產業鏈供應鏈做零組件內地的便宜的勞動力來去組裝然後銷美國這是2018年的情況但是川普1.0之後變成什麼"},{"start":11754.695,"end":11770.408,"text":"變成是啊如果說這些零組件呢直接從中國出去不行結果我們就有一個Plan A我們有個自貿港關鍵零組件在台灣但是不需要太多勞動力的呢零組件到台灣配上去就消美國是不是這樣這就是所謂境內關外部長是不是這樣子"},{"start":11772.308,"end":11796.87,"text":"是這樣的一個過去啦對對對好那另外一個模式是怎樣越南取而代之越南說我有很多的勞動力把昆山蘇州上海周邊這些電子產業的零組件送到越南來台灣把關鍵資源送過去組裝好後Plan B就到美國事業有這樣的方向過去這幾年越南走這條路嗎是好我們看一看"},{"start":11797.349,"end":11820.398,"text":"那現在我們看看 自貿區可以直接進儲 不用核准 是這樣嗎目前應該是這樣好 所以你看 自貿區在2024年我們的自由港進出口破3兆2024的貨櫃破300萬那過去我們現在川普說你這個不能直接中國銷美國 所以我們在台組裝"},{"start":11822.489,"end":11843.888,"text":"還有呢中轉他國直接在台灣過個水就出去那現在怎麼防止中國貨路呢是 報告委員我們大概有四點可以來這個防止第一個就是來監測進口量好 第二點那麼跟蘇美的產品做全面的勾擊對比這是第一點第二點從嚴處罰最高罰300萬或者取消進出口商的資格"},{"start":11849.733,"end":11859.917,"text":"第三個我們加強反傾銷的調查我都幫你寫好了部長就這一頁我都寫好了因為你們有講過嘛我們委託風總輔導廠商來來來我們來看一下桃園航空城"},{"start":11864.571,"end":11884.032,"text":"我們2024三兆的產值呢桃園貢獻了2.4兆而且2025年還有一個台北港要一個智慧車輛園區但是在2018年到2024年經濟部根據自由港的條例到歐盟到英國的美國的自行車電動輔助自行車履制輪胎圈到先核准什麼意思部長認為為什麼這樣子"},{"start":11886.581,"end":11901.484,"text":"因為自貿區本來不用核定的嘛但這幾個東西這些進口國認為有息產地嘛所以要先核准嘛 是不是這樣是啊 確保台灣有這個產地所以說自貿區要防止息產地在川普2.0之後也行不通了那麼"},{"start":11902.225,"end":11930.406,"text":"越南的部分呢也被美國盯得很死也行不通了所以好像有一個說法譬如說另外找個像菲律賓這樣的國家他有很多的勞動力把一些原來台灣消美的零組件呢產業鏈移到菲律賓台灣的關鍵零組件到那邊去這個是不是就是你所謂的境外關內的一種模式是的是的很好所以呢我們往下看所以未來境外關內可能是應對所謂的息產地自貿區的模式不可行的時候來接下來我們看劉主委劉主委"},{"start":11931.96,"end":11947.775,"text":"台灣現在有一個國家火箭發射基地了嘛是不是對現在選定九棚嘛目前在美國SPEX有四個發射基地SPEX一次可以發射143顆低軌道的通訊衛星那麼未來有沒有可能台灣也可以來協助像"},{"start":11948.876,"end":11972.5,"text":"團客的大巴士有SPEX但是呢兩三顆的小型的即時的送到我們台灣來發射有沒有這個可能呢台灣可不可以提供低軌道通訊衛星的運載服務有沒有可能從產業的發展來講這是有可能的有可能的我們可以跟美國合作團客你處理散客我來接對不對那台灣需要什麼需要運載火箭台灣現在有辦法獨立完成運載火箭的裝備嗎我們預計2027年可以自己有對"},{"start":11975.461,"end":11999.332,"text":"但是我們可不可能跟美國分工以前我們跟美國買波音航空客我來載但是飛機你來賣所以我們跟美國買飛機有沒有可能未來我們跟美國買火箭或買火箭當中的比較高關鍵的像火箭引擎那我們台灣組裝後來發射有沒有可能這是有可能的是的所以我要跟郭部長跟主委說的就是說其實未來我們的產業除了"},{"start":12000.332,"end":12023.782,"text":"自貿區不可行 防止稀產地要努力 跟美國的銷售之外我們不要老是只是想賣東西給他 想辦法也跟他買東西來我們看看 川普說什麼 大再工業化 請問劉主委川普的再工業化是把鋼鐵拉回來美國 造船又拉回來美國運動鞋 球拍 紡織品 筆電 自行車都美國自己製造嗎汽車都自己製造 是這樣的意思嗎"},{"start":12025.457,"end":12050.439,"text":"我個人比較看法是說它應該整合對它友好的國家形成一個新的供應鏈機器是的所以它的再工業化不是重度最快效率最高是再分工化對不對對所以中高階的美國留著中低階的排除中國後交給有岸來外包像無人機無人機台灣現在死神不是死神這個等級的無人機美國不會交給別國生產"},{"start":12051.44,"end":12076.915,"text":"但是像中國的大疆那種低中低界的無人機會不會希望台灣結合以色列跟東歐的光電球我們來生產會不會這是有可能的因為我們正在復建這樣的能力是的所以說全球的而且我們已經有代工廠商已經產生了已經產生了嘛所以全球的產業重組的時候呢我們希望我們國發會要瞄準未來的產業需求不是只在現有的產業格局下跟美國去討論說有沒有中國成分"},{"start":12077.395,"end":12089.525,"text":"而是希望找到他的美國的再分工當中台灣居一個有利的位置跟美國分工合作你同意嗎同意好所以這時候的資金人力土地跟公共建設的需要來最後三個問題分別請第一個對不起國發會"},{"start":12092.526,"end":12120.501,"text":"是不是已經評估未來的產業需求拟據了產業在全球化市佔據所需要的這四缺的這些狀況而且有解決方案國發委員會開始準備了這個有的有的好最後來請財政部財政部次長因應台灣產業受美國對等關稅影響短期資金需求提出一個方案報告可以嗎可以沒問題好請經濟部對於在中國的台商撤出中國後進駐境外關內園區的輔導方案可以提出一個說明嗎報告"},{"start":12121.958,"end":12148.229,"text":"這個境外觀念是您的嘛您的倡議嘛我要深得您的倡議的精髓來幫忙講這個事情最後請國發委研議全國去中供應鏈的情況之下如何提高台灣的產業全球市佔率和解決到所需要的資金人才土地跟供應建設的方案提出來一個報告跟說明可以跟本席嗎這可以啊好 謝謝主委 謝謝次長 謝謝部長好 謝謝我們現在請蔡依瑜委員做詢答"},{"start":12151.485,"end":12164.797,"text":"中午不休息 延長開會時間謝謝趙偉那我們是不是有請國發會 劉主委跟經濟部部長劉主委 郭部長委員好好 我先"},{"start":12177.95,"end":12205.939,"text":"我先請教郭部長部長現在川普因為這兩個禮拜來看起來他對於關稅這件事情心中有想法但是目前的說法很亂包括說他原先說可能會對電子產品就是類似像手機這一類的會作為關稅的豁免但是他後來又否認說他沒有這樣說那現在也說下個禮拜可能會對半導體"},{"start":12208.301,"end":12215.966,"text":"來開始科稅科關稅那以及會啟動232的一個調查那這樣的話對於整個半導體的影響部長你的判斷呢我想因為我們在半導體這個領域裡面跟美國來講很多跟美國的客戶是互補的"},{"start":12229.588,"end":12247.205,"text":"那美國大概都是Fabless的公司嘛很多是Design House那他的產品是透過我們台灣這些Foundry公司幫他製造所以我們做完交回去美國啊那這個稅客更多就是他美國這些品牌公司他要負責"},{"start":12247.925,"end":12261.801,"text":"當然他要負擔這個關稅後的成本的提高嘛對不對但是事實上除了我們跟美國之間的關稅之外因為半導體畢竟他只是電子產品中的一個零組件"},{"start":12262.982,"end":12288.522,"text":"中的一個部分他很重要他要驅動整個整個這個科技產品的運作但是他也是裡面的材料之一所以他基本上他這個半導體可能會擴散到很多不同的國家像中國也會這個晶片跑到了中國然後在那邊組裝變成科技產品再銷售到美國或者是其他像越南這樣的國家事實上都是有可能的"},{"start":12288.982,"end":12305.864,"text":"那這樣的話美國在這個科與關稅的時候他又講到科技產品可能會豁免但是半導體不豁免那這樣的話會不會變成說未來半導體就大家想說那我就不要到美國就好了啊我到其他國家去啊"},{"start":12306.673,"end":12325.293,"text":"是 報告委員我想這樣子美國的這個客戶啊大概對高階的半導體大概美國客戶都表示大概四五成的這個用戶用量在美國所以他還是要進到美國啦還是會有這樣的一個市場這是美國會考量啦但是對我們國內的半導體業現在是"},{"start":12327.936,"end":12347.107,"text":"很頭痛啊我們現在最重要的是跟美國的客戶表達就是說台美是合作的夥伴讓美國的政府可以了解不是說這些東西跟日本的商品是一樣的這不一樣所以這些中間商品"},{"start":12348.208,"end":12363.061,"text":"要來課稅其實是有它的難度但是我相信美國他們也會去計算這一點我們大概目前還不清楚他怎麼來課但是我們從最近美國開始美國政府在進行國安的調查"},{"start":12364.215,"end":12390.645,"text":"因為他認為半導體這高階的半導體影響他的國家安全所以我們台灣這邊進入也是密切的觀察這樣的一個措施所以我們會了解這個結果以後積極的跟美國政府來協商透過這一次的談判我們積極跟他協商最後表達的台灣就是美國的策略夥伴"},{"start":12391.405,"end":12397.071,"text":"所以他在下這個關稅的時候不要只針對台灣"},{"start":12399.391,"end":12423.898,"text":"就是要針對台灣因為是夥伴所以要區隔跟部長我們跟美國的整個生產的鏈是很多是高度互補所以我們跟美國事實上是就從你所說的來做戰略上的夥伴這個是一個很好的一個方向所以未來的談判那麼期待會有一個好的一個結果那部長那就你的判斷從411的一個視訊會談那你覺得"},{"start":12427.359,"end":12441.998,"text":"台灣會跟美國還有第二波或者是第三波的一個會談嗎還是411講完後他們就已經要把它變成定見了沒有沒有 這個國際談判國際談判不會說一次就談完不會一次談完嘛他先定義我們要談什麼"},{"start":12443.875,"end":12468.634,"text":"所以411都主要在做定義就是定義嘛哪一些東西談哪一些東西不談好那我想部長接下來整個談判我想第一個對於產業的一個守護啦以及當然這是農業部的問題對於整個農業應該要台灣還是要有自己的一個守護我們台灣本土我們糧食安全的這個立場我想這個談判都是很重要的啦好那下一個我要問這個國發會國發會這個主委"},{"start":12474.716,"end":12475.137,"text":"就是說這個關稅暫停暫停90天"},{"start":12479.522,"end":12503.562,"text":"那台灣現在看起來就是有一股極端效應那這個極端耶大家都要掛在這三個月每個月都快出來了可能在美國那邊的客戶也說不然你剩現在10%的時間都先來那所以就變成說這個極端效應變成說現在會出了那我擔心的是說現在出貨那三個月之後哇"},{"start":12504.58,"end":12532.02,"text":"沒辦法出啦而且這個在過去也發生過在疫情那一段時間那個整個船運塞港的時候有一段時間大家都趕著出貨在出貨完後 哇 忽然一間不管是做卡特車的啦 做樓梯的 做零件的全部都說 哇 他們那裡倉庫滿滿不需要台灣的訂單那現在這一波急波效應會不會在三個月之後也發生這樣的狀況"},{"start":12535.224,"end":12561.516,"text":"這個是有可能的因為現在幾乎所有的產業都在趕貨但是我們希望利用這三個月的時間積極的輔導廠商進行供應鏈的移轉跟新市場的開發然後來面對將來在高速的出貨之後主委要開發新市場豈是那麼簡單三個月要請他們他們只能開始著手去努力"},{"start":12562.256,"end":12590.634,"text":"啊到真的到接著到市場黑衣頂就是對那個都要點時間了但是至少利用這幾個空檔往前走這段時間是極端嘛都是短期的啊那之後會變成一個空窗期在進入空窗期之後我們可以想像的可能就會衍生出這個就業的問題啊或者是工廠波瀾間變成停擺這個倒不至於因為這三個月會讓廠商收入的現金會"},{"start":12591.815,"end":12607.473,"text":"比以往高很多啦那就跟我們當年在疫情結束之後瞬間急凍了一年多大家都可以過得還不錯的原因啦那這個企業一定是但是我在急凍的那一年我聽到很多企業事實上事實上他們還是有受創啊"},{"start":12608.937,"end":12620.946,"text":"因為有時候極端跟穩定的工作他是不一樣的另外一個事情我想也跟委員報告因為整個全球都在談判那美國第二個如果我們再回頭去看川普1.0的時候川普1.0的時候他訂出高關稅之後呢"},{"start":12624.639,"end":12640.732,"text":"它會經過美國內部的一個審議期跟建議期建議出來的清單呢並不最後呢它總會有一些會放寬的部分所以我們還是要等待那是談判的結果同時要等待這段期間的一些變化因為現在這個變化是很"},{"start":12642.775,"end":12659.909,"text":"幾乎每天都在變所以我們就是得我們得去準備好我們自己未來的競爭力那集單總不可能三個月之後你就走大陣子就有了三個月後再繼續出貨所以未來的競爭力一定要準備他就抓大陣子抓時間這個時間會衍生一些社會問題我覺得我們國大會應該要開始去思考是 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請張家俊委員做詢問"},{"start":12682.973,"end":12688.583,"text":"謝謝召委我想請劉志偉還有郭部長劉志偉 郭部長委員好"},{"start":12695.57,"end":12701.914,"text":"部長早安 然後劉主委早安我想先請問劉主委根據賴總統411的說法台灣跟美國進行視訊商議而且台灣列在美國第一波的談判名單之內但是根據最新的華爾街日報報導美國財政部長宣布美國首輪的談判名單包括英國 包括澳洲 日本 南韓 印度"},{"start":12723.408,"end":12745.017,"text":"但是卻沒有台灣請問主委為什麼第一波沒有台灣呢如果委員記得的話第一次公告第一波名單的時候也是美國公告的那我就我的了解我沒有參與那麼多但是我的了解4月11號台灣進行了第一次的談判那這個談判一定是後續一定是一個陸續談判那這個陸續談判呢"},{"start":12746.998,"end":12766.677,"text":"談到最後才會做成結論那這個事情是我只能講這個談判在持續進行中持續進行中持續進行中所以第一波應該是沒有我們的意思嗎第一波美國公告如果你回頭看這是美國商務部長講的第一波但是美國政府的公告第一波是有台灣的部長你要補充一下嗎為什麼第一波沒有台灣"},{"start":12772.304,"end":12800.327,"text":"我們就已經跟他諮商過了啊4月11號當天我們就跟美國來做這個諮商的這個會議嘛這裡面也談到了所以當天部長也有參與沒有沒有參與那所以411的視訊商議的性質到底是什麼兩位部長跟主委其實是不清楚的是啊 跟委員報告那一天我們大概談的是第一個對等關稅第二個是非關稅貿易障礙"},{"start":12801.348,"end":12816.4,"text":"第三個是出國管制等非常多項的這些經貿的議題所以是有具體的那有沒有一些具體的產業別呢我想這個兩邊談判就我個人的經驗來講一定會先確定命題是什麼我們到底要談什麼"},{"start":12817.617,"end":12830.493,"text":"所以到底是誰跟誰談呢先談的確定不能談的就拿掉大概是這個樣子是 這個我理解但是我們現在比較想要知道的是台灣這邊是誰然後美國這邊是誰這個不清楚吧"},{"start":12835.018,"end":12840.442,"text":"所以部長也不清楚主委也不清楚這個倒是知道是由正副院長領軍然後由談判代表辦公室楊振尼政委領軍在談判那美國那邊呢我們並沒有參與美國那邊你們也不曉得所以這點就是令本席有點擔憂就是我們談的對象到底是誰他的決策權夠大嗎能不能能夠站在"},{"start":12863.019,"end":12890.639,"text":"比較支持台灣的立場呢那包括說之前針對這個關稅談判呀那個美國的財政部長貝森特他就表示率先談判的國家會獲得更有利的對待那所以本席擔心的為什麼一直問說我們是不是在第一波這個名單裡面就是在擔心說我們會不會是在有利的這個名單裡面所以這一點才會一直想要請教主委請教部長"},{"start":12892.56,"end":12912.289,"text":"那如果假設我們當然我們有第一次談判但我們的第一次談判不代表我們在他的第一波名單裡面那如果未來我們持續談判主委跟這個部長你們有沒有預估說我們大概會在第幾波的名單當中呢這個細節我們沒有辦法預測因為我們沒有參與這裡面"},{"start":12918.985,"end":12940.28,"text":"那當然本席在這裡有建議建議就是說在面對這個關稅風波時更應該謹慎因為中央政府要帶給人民的是安心那這樣子有時候訊息反覆反而會造成民心不安想說我明明就覺得說我們有第一次談判了可是我們竟然不在第一波名單裡面"},{"start":12941.161,"end":12969.193,"text":"那這樣子會造成社會各界的不安定那我們在越艱難的時刻一定要做最壞的打算最充分的準備希望我們能夠化危機為轉機好不好這是也鼓勵主委也鼓勵部長說實在我也看到這幾週來你們都非常的辛苦不斷的跟產業在溝通不斷的在安撫產業之外也努力想要找出路那這一些努力我們其實是看在眼裡那所以只是希望說"},{"start":12970.473,"end":12991.398,"text":"我們的訊息啊我們的訊息一定要正確怎麼會我們的這個總統說我們在第一波名單裡面就公佈沒有 我跟你說這會造成很多民眾的一些錯亂跟不安心當時是美國先公告的第一波裡面在以色列跟台灣都在他的第一波裡面"},{"start":12991.638,"end":13010.708,"text":"對啊 但是他又公佈啦 他又最新的公佈裡面4月11號有的第一次的談判 那我們希望我們可以再不要說一定要第一波啦 就算是第二波也沒關係我們可以在前面幾波 趕快安定下來這是我們不只是本席 我相信包括你們以目前來看我們應該會是嘛 因為他"},{"start":13012.382,"end":13039.045,"text":"很多在底層的談判技術型談判裡面大家應該也許我們還有一點要釐清的吧我再猜啦但是技術型談判結束之後才會回到往上走做決策是我們都希望有一個最好的結果好那我是先謝謝主委然後我接下來想要請教部長在這一次的關稅議題上部長覺得什麼是現在台灣最需要去跟美國談的重點項目呢"},{"start":13041.038,"end":13067.831,"text":"我們最需要的重點項目就是說我們這一次跟美國所談判的關稅能夠為我們國內的廠商能夠爭取到一個很公平但是具有競爭力的這樣的一個線上面然後幫助台灣的這個產業是具有在市場在市場上面的有沒有幾個特別的產業是產業別是你覺得要再重點加強的呢"},{"start":13068.949,"end":13085.448,"text":"我想他對我們高關稅的部分就是他本來所設計的這個關稅的部分比較高的部分對我們我們認為跟其他的競爭國來比較我們是比較高的那幾個領域都是我們的重點那幾個領域會是哪幾個領域呢"},{"start":13086.28,"end":13104.708,"text":"目前經濟部有掌握嗎不是我想我們在幾個領域就是說譬如說很多的這個國人擔心我們可能比日本高比韓國高然後比這個有的競爭國高那各個產業的狀況不一樣那本席今天想要跟部長談的就是能源這個項目部長認為我們跟美國能夠救能源這個項目"},{"start":13111.944,"end":13118.395,"text":"變成是我們談判的一個籌碼嗎?能源、科技都是我們談判的重點"},{"start":13119.605,"end":13146.941,"text":"那本席也想要提醒部長就是說核能因為美國在台協會AIT的處長古麗妍她在川普對等關稅尚未宣布之前在上個月的20號在美國的商會的謝年范致辭她就直言說美國可以為台灣提供全方位的這個能源解決方案其中包括核能電網技術"},{"start":13148.502,"end":13163.607,"text":"那他這一番話也可以是台美經貿合作的另外一個藍圖那美國的核能技術成熟那美國總統川普本身也是核能的擁護者那相信美國應該會支持這樣子的一個"},{"start":13165.647,"end":13194.767,"text":"貿易那所以本席想要請教部長如果從美國進口核能競速還有反應器的模組燃料棒等等是否可以作為平衡貿易順差的一個策略工具之一呢我們核能的部分對先進科技的核能我們是不反對的我們都可以來積極的討論那我們還是三個原則啦就是說大家有共識核廢料可以處理然後安全無力"},{"start":13195.347,"end":13220.391,"text":"那在這個三個前提之下我們對新的核能科技是不反對的所以本席要提醒部長既然您不反對是不是能夠真正考量核能作為一種能源戰略合作讓台灣跟美國談判有優勢我們不要只是把它看成一個可能性如果可以把它當作是一個政策工具讓它具體的落實那我相信這絕對會是我們關稅談判的一個很好的籌碼是"},{"start":13224.712,"end":13239.856,"text":"謝謝委員的提示這一部分的話我們還是維持剛剛跟您報告的三個基本原則如果符合這三個基本原則那所有新的核能科技我們都不反對因為台灣現在真的很需要一張有價值的籌碼那既能達成減碳目標又可以強化對美關係"},{"start":13246.178,"end":13256.648,"text":"那既能保證這個能源穩定又能夠化解關稅壓力這不就是我們可以主動創造優勢的好機會嗎好不好謝謝部長我們一起加油謝謝部長謝謝主委謝謝好謝謝我們現在請賴世寶委員做詢答"},{"start":13272.981,"end":13284.14,"text":"好 主席各位先進我們請這個經濟部的郭部長郭部長以及經濟部的柳主委一起好嗎好 柳主委"},{"start":13287.608,"end":13313.906,"text":"委員好兩位長官好我請教啦因為我也是同一個問題今天很多人都疑問了就我們到底是第一輪還是第幾輪因為美國商務部公布的第一輪沒有台灣就日本 韓國 印度那英國 澳國英國 澳大利亞已經早就談過了我們沒有那但是我們的總統府那裡又發布說有澳第一輪談了所以我的解讀啦"},{"start":13317.228,"end":13338.777,"text":"我的解讀當然各位兩位都沒有參加但是這個對我們也很重要你們是經貿的長官大長官這個我的解讀411我仔細看了好幾份的一個報導它就是說雙方面就關稅以及非關稅貿易的障礙做了一些溝通"},{"start":13340.165,"end":13362.153,"text":"我感覺啊 我請教各位 我這樣解讀對不對411那個會議是一種類似我們法院的裡面的準備庭他不是實時進入那個辯論庭啊真的再去談 他是一個準備庭就開始問你名字啊 問你們現象啊 問你幾個項目要談啊什麼之類的 我這樣解讀對不對 請教兩位長官"},{"start":13368.177,"end":13379.669,"text":"我想委員是這方面的專家但是我分享一下因為我太太以前也在WTO談判做了十幾年就我的認知是通常我們會做技術型的談判針對要談的條件由技術官員先做USDR先做一個技術談判然後最後才會往上走"},{"start":13387.217,"end":13403.967,"text":"那這個過程就要看雙方在技術談判上的爭議點多不多爭議點越少的一定會先越早上去所以是準備點的概念嘛對 這個要郭部長同意吧是準備點的概念但是如果我們因為要維護台灣的經濟因為大家關心的當然這個過程啦大家關心的是說我們不能談一個好的 deal現在是10%到32%之間嘛"},{"start":13412.631,"end":13422.597,"text":"是不是事實上原來現在是為止10%大家好高興喔股市漲啊什麼之類的其實不要忘了我們到美國原來是3%錯了請指正原來3%這個要顧不準對吧原來是3%看產業表"},{"start":13429.622,"end":13457.999,"text":"要看哪一些產業AverageAverageAverage美國它本來是3.1%對就3%左右對Average是3%但是現在一概的都是10%它已經給很大的favor給很大的message所以是10%到12%我特別請教郭部長你心目中有沒有一個說我們如果談到多少我對國人就很有交代"},{"start":13460.237,"end":13472.902,"text":"當然月底月好了就10%最好但是我看這個可能性也不高我們能夠接受到哪裡加起來除以2 10加30號40號除以2 21因為我不是談判委員因為我沒有授予這樣的一個談判的目標"},{"start":13483.686,"end":13502.226,"text":"那如果就大家一樣的國人的想法當然是維持原來的稅率是最好那原來稅率是3%他現在他就10%但是他現在已經調到10%對啊那這10%可能就是美國他們政府的一個目的基礎目"},{"start":13502.927,"end":13525.329,"text":"基礎稅率不可能再降了有沒有談到10%已經是100分了啦所以我們大概可以觀察現在他的第一波出來的那個五國的稅率是什麼那個大概是一個referenceOK好那現在跟那個主委請回座跟這個有關係的其實稅率最高的是最健康食品"},{"start":13527.046,"end":13555.322,"text":"我剛才過去未完問了問了老半天才知道是你們管的健康食品是你們管的不是我們不管的是這個這一部分你有沒有對於我們國內的健康食品的相關產業有沒有衝擊三十八如果變零可信性如何因為如果是對等關稅啦除非美國的關稅是零啦美國大概是零喔美國現在美國的關稅是八趴啦八趴好我們就降到八趴我們有沒有印象"},{"start":13556.24,"end":13572.491,"text":"但是他現在對我們當然是有衝擊啦對我們目前的這個這個就是看他們如何去調適啦這畢竟是國家的大事這是一個 另外有一個汽車產業17.5汽車產業17.5還有它的零組件在那邊影響的工作人員"},{"start":13580.27,"end":13607.072,"text":"我們的勞工有十幾萬人衝擊是蠻大的當然有人在批評說保護下來不好啦什麼之類 把它歸 看一下如果歸成零這個衝擊相當大我們的物性價會增加失業率會增加對社會造成一個很大的社會問題這個你的觀點怎麼樣這一部分我的建議是這樣子就是說台灣因為電子零組件很強對"},{"start":13608.613,"end":13629.114,"text":"那麼現在台灣的這個車廠都是做油車所以我們如果跟他們建議他回到因為大部分都是日本的品牌比較多所以我們建議是不是他們的電動車可以在台灣的這些電子零組件有優勢的國家裡面可以來生產電動車這是一個最快的轉換"},{"start":13630.015,"end":13641.926,"text":"我覺得既有已有的員工那麼也有生產線那麼也有市場這個是我們的一個建議我回到比較笨的問題了那你期待17.5可以降到多少你覺得可以接受對產業衝擊沒那麼大我們有跑過模型了我們有跑過經濟模型大概我們大概可以7年"},{"start":13657.15,"end":13684.663,"text":"七年就是說在七年內如果說我們可以安排他們轉型大概不會產生衝擊所以七年安排轉型但是稅率就零開始囉就是最worst case是零的話最worst case就是從只要台美1000元就從零開始那七年以後他們可以適應就七年以後才會佔負責所以七年你要有一個輔導方案出來"},{"start":13685.143,"end":13705.344,"text":"我們當然會我們的輔導方案會出來嘛但我的意思就是說當我們這是基本假設啦不會這個樣子當17.5的稅萬一是零被要求是零的時候那麼對這個產業的衝擊會造成實質的影響我們跑過模型大概要七年才會產生其實你們可以去跟美國argue"},{"start":13707.086,"end":13729.247,"text":"這個時候跟他討論一下所以我們意思就是說我們做最快的這個打算我們也跟原廠跟台灣的這些廠商其實我們都瞭解了台灣的市場美國車即便你變零美國車也不是賣得最好的台灣人喜歡歐洲車啊日本車啊大部分來進來都還是日本車啦日本車對啊在美國的日本車啦在美國的日本車"},{"start":13730.589,"end":13755.826,"text":"所以這個基本上大家都買進口車啊因為沒有稅了以後大家沒有買進口車所以本土的車廠他們確實會造到一些這個其實從對等關稅的角度台灣的車去美國的很少都是沙灘車啦沙灘車台灣去了整車非常少但是我們的up market是很棒的是up market是很棒的是的那個半導體他說要課稅現在還沒出來你認為他可能課多少"},{"start":13758.146,"end":13777.88,"text":"這個還要看因為美國現在在做這個國安調查那我再看他的國安調查之後他們才會做一個確定所以我們現在很密切注意這樣的一個命題目前多少目前的話這個半導體的這個稅是0領先繼續領吧是是謝謝委員謝謝我們現在請黃國昌委員做詢答"},{"start":13799.285,"end":13809.413,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請國發會主委 經濟部部長郭主委呃 郭部長 劉主委呃 委員好"},{"start":13812.65,"end":13834.218,"text":"兩位好,先請教主委,之前我揭發盧欣娜的弊案,持續在追蹤當初花了納稅人15億,說要去併購中國的酒地,搞了半天是被人家反向併購把台灣納稅人跟資本市場的錢拿去中國胡搞瞎搞結果這件事情已經起訴了,一審其實也判出來了"},{"start":13835.236,"end":13856.611,"text":"但我一直追查我發現很奇怪當初跟陳世修勾結的一個中國人叫做孫陽我一開始揭發弊案就點名他了啦他媽媽是中共的高幹那很奇怪啊這個被台灣通緝的人結果呢結果實際上面還在我們國發基金投資的盧新當董事"},{"start":13857.799,"end":13884.885,"text":"中國那邊實際上面營運他還是實際的負責人這件事情國發會應該有掌握了吧我上次有提醒過你這個我們有掌握了我們做了三件事情是第一個我們去函這個上市委公司的主管單位金管會請求他們表示意見第二個我們也找了律師然後呢我們也發函給蘆星公司要求撤換孫楊第三個部分我們預防將來撤換有問題我們也進行試骨"},{"start":13887.846,"end":13904.816,"text":"上一次啦,我當面跟主委提醒這件事啦我提醒完了以後你們馬上就採取了動作,這件事情我是肯定啦但是我要跟主委講的事情喔,是說我們的國發基金啊,派去爐心的董事啊,是在睡覺嗎?是在睡覺嗎?這個事情要我講,你們才會發現,才會動"},{"start":13913.277,"end":13929.422,"text":"一個被台灣的法院通緝的中國通緝犯在我們國發基金投資的公司裡面繼續在中國那邊的營運當負責人妥當嗎?適合嗎?台灣人的錢已經被騙得這麼慘了抓不到這個中國人還繼續讓他負責中國那邊的業務錢太多"},{"start":13938.305,"end":13964.651,"text":"委員這個我們會去了解我們的董事有沒有清楚如果有的話我們會進行董事的更換一個禮拜之內回覆可以嗎沒有問題好謝謝第二個另外一個號稱我們國家投資了30億綠能國家隊不是只有國發基金藥花玻璃也有是希望能夠發展我們太陽能自主的產業"},{"start":13966.431,"end":13980.107,"text":"那當然投資的績效不好這個我們另外再討論啦投資前已經虧損上百億啊投資後繼續虧損上百億啊當初投資決策怎麼做的這個不是我今天要討論的重點"},{"start":13981.653,"end":14006.172,"text":"我今天要討論的重點是什麼當初我們扶植這個太陽能國家隊就是希望這些太陽能相關的產品電池能夠在台灣好好生產嘛那要不然怎麼叫太陽能國家隊當初成立了以後這個聯合再生的董事長還在媒體上面大聲疾呼啊說第三地的模組啊傾銷台灣啊將成為國安的隱憂啊"},{"start":14009.38,"end":14028.522,"text":"大陸的太陽能模組透過東南亞製造稀產地大量傾銷台灣啊這個會影響到台灣的什麼 國安隱憂啊這個是在2023年的時候啊他在媒體上面啊 大聲疾呼的內容啊他這樣大聲疾呼啊來請教一下國發會的主委 贊不贊成"},{"start":14031.426,"end":14052.257,"text":"我當時我還沒有進入政府但是我們當時如果從扶植台灣太陽能產業的角度來看我是贊成這樣的做法沒錯但是現在就是說計劃與支持之間的差異我們如何去彌補但是我今天要注意我們是善意投資人不是經營之神等一下"},{"start":14054.938,"end":14078.023,"text":"我今天要跟主委講的事情 不是前面那一趴啦 虧損的部分 那個我說另外再討論啦我先就這件事情來講 現在我看不懂為什麼對外面說的是一套 做的是另外一套 來看下一張我台灣的綠能國家隊 拿台灣人的錢去投資 講紓困可能太沉重"},{"start":14079.298,"end":14097.208,"text":"他要賣太陽能的電池要賣到土耳其結果竟然是從中國的上海出貨這件事情很奇怪啊是台灣人的太陽能電池先運到中國的上海然後再去土耳其還是直接就在賣中國的電池主委你認為咧"},{"start":14098.963,"end":14122.582,"text":"委員我跟你報告我不是檢調單位我又不是監理單位我只是投資單位但是我們沒有能力去做檢調的工作但是但是如果您有證據給我我跟上次的承諾一樣我一定去告發我一定去告發我希望你把證據給我這樣違法我一定做我們一件一件來啦現在我要告訴主委的事情是說第一個我們的台灣啊"},{"start":14127.52,"end":14155.114,"text":"太陽能的國家隊賣到外面的產品結果是在幫誰賣貨在幫中國賣貨這我沒有辦法接受這我沒有辦法接受這個是第一件事情我可以同意你的看法但是委員也請注意喔我之前就已經回應了我們已經在進行事故這是我們目前最好的解決方案但是如果有違法的證據沒有啦我先跟你溝通一件事情啦"},{"start":14155.794,"end":14176.955,"text":"不要每一次都拿不同層次的事情來處理啦第一個我今天要跟你表達的態度非常的清楚我看你今天的回應你顯然是不知道沒有關係我會站在這邊質詢就是公開提供檢舉資訊給你第二個我很謝謝你提供資訊給我第二個我現在要跟主委講的是"},{"start":14178.036,"end":14204.484,"text":"這也不是什麼秘密啊這已經是公開資訊了這已經是公開資訊了但我懷疑的事情是什麼我懷疑的事情是說我們台灣的太陽能國家隊怎麼會在做這種事情下面還有其他的公開資訊我再給主委看JA說了是哪一個國家的太陽能模組時間的關係我直接跟主委報告JA說了"},{"start":14207.082,"end":14235.783,"text":"是中國的太陽能是中國的太陽能模組這個在經濟部上面全部都有登記那我現在就搞不清楚狀況我們的太陽能國家隊結果成立國家隊 號稱國家隊那個是上引號下引號那個台灣之光 台灣的驕傲結果我們的太陽能國家隊在做的事情是什麼淪為中國太陽能的模組代理商主委你贊成嗎"},{"start":14237.962,"end":14253.965,"text":"我們當時投資那個聯合再生的時候是希望再創台灣的太陽能產業當時的目的這是我們投資目的那這個結果不是我們樂見的不是你們樂見的嗎我們會去理解如果它違法我們一定會處理"},{"start":14255.843,"end":14266.687,"text":"現在喔有兩個層次啊一個是主委說剛所講的違法的層次嘛所以我就一直在問嘛我希望國發基金等一下等一下主委請你先聽我說完好兩個層次的問題主委我只是"},{"start":14275.443,"end":14296.752,"text":"我跟你就是溝通到現在我基本上是蠻尊敬你的對我也是因為我覺得你有擔當所以我是很善意的把這些資訊跟你講是我提醒兩件事情第一個你們那個國發基金派去聯合再生的董事提醒他一下這不是什麼秘密的事情"},{"start":14297.956,"end":14324.792,"text":"這全部都是公開資訊委員 正常的董事會不會討論到這麼細節的事情呢欸等一下喔但是我們國發基金派去聯合再生的董事他肩負的責任是什麼他肩負的責任董事裡面我們國家派去的董事這一點都不細欸這已經牽涉到你剛剛所講的欸沒有委員我從企業出來的這是不是有維持到國家政策的問題欸我從企業出來的喔董事會會依據董事會議程來討論跟開會"},{"start":14327.588,"end":14354.057,"text":"他不會去了解到每一個訂單的細節我再跟主委講這個不是訂單的細節這個是公開的資訊今天主委你願意請董事下去這本來就是應該他做的事情但是派去的董事就要有功能他如果能夠發揮功能的話就可以站在國家的立場不要讓這種丟人現眼的事情發生"},{"start":14355.902,"end":14378.327,"text":"怎麼會是我今天站在這邊質詢這件事情呢我很謝謝 我很佩服委員有這麼多的資訊管道我也謝謝你提供這些資訊給我我們一定會來做進行必要的處理時間的關係 我不影響下一個委員質詢的時間我只提醒一件事情 我只提醒一件事情"},{"start":14379.281,"end":14394.774,"text":"我們現在在面對的事情大家對習產地這件事情深惡痛絕的時候結果裡面竟然有我們自己國發基金投資的公司深陷其中這件事情對台灣的國際信譽會造成相當大的打擊"},{"start":14395.655,"end":14423.577,"text":"我希望國發會能夠非常嚴肅的面對這個課題可以嗎我們非常的嚴肅我們也依據上市委員的交代我們已經發文給所有的投資公司目前已經也收回了四十幾份資料我們已經跟您做一個報告我們會持續要求把這些這些廠商提出他們的切結書OK這是我們Best Can Do最後一件事聯合再生在做這件事情為什麼做這件事情一個禮拜之內給我回覆可以嗎"},{"start":14424.905,"end":14430.87,"text":"我們會去發文了解請他解釋OK好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝我們現在請陳冠廷委員做詢答你好我們請部長郭部長"},{"start":14456.431,"end":14481.756,"text":"部長好部長依據經濟部的調查從2018年美中貿易戰開始到現在哪一個產業因為每一個產業的影響都是有受到一些差異那台灣的各產業裡面哪一個部分受到最嚴重的負面影響哪一些產業會受到反而會因為轉單有一些效益大概具體上面來跟我們分享一下好嗎"},{"start":14482.506,"end":14487.47,"text":"我想因為這個訊息萬變哪一個產業會受到影響我們根據目前的這個狀況看起來傳產傳統產業受到這個比較大的這個衝擊"},{"start":14498.257,"end":14519.622,"text":"所以我們目前來看在傳產裡面大概機械業、鎖工具業、扣件這些傳產傳產受到比較大的影響那其實在我們嘉義縣主要雖然說現在開始有一些半導體的業者進入包含台積電的投資等等但是傳統產業還是工業區裡面的主力所以我們對於傳統產業的支持我們是非常重視的"},{"start":14525.603,"end":14554.398,"text":"上次質詢的時候我也請教說這個在我們經濟部總共這次整合跨部會的資源總共是880億的20項的支持措施但是經濟部主要是負責410億那410億裡面提供的包含金融支持提升產業競爭力開拓多元市場等等那上次我們質詢的時候我們是在講說因為現在的關稅的這樣子的挑戰是即時性的所以我們希望說在優先順序我們不希望緩不濟急那"},{"start":14554.958,"end":14569.756,"text":"在這樣的窗框之下上一次我們有提到說包含你說補助研發轉型你們是加碼200億元那爭取海外電力是加碼100億元那是上一次提供的報告可是我們看這一次的話好像還是依照這樣子的"},{"start":14570.697,"end":14590.347,"text":"排序那這樣子有沒有辦法對於我們現在直接面的挑戰做出有效的因應呢因為我看這個價格這些都比較遠程的啊200億也好100億也好輔助研發轉型等等這些都是我們要講未來的長期規劃但是現在我們要遇到的是包含你們提出來的我覺得不錯的是貸款優惠的保證加碼"},{"start":14591.187,"end":14607.973,"text":"跟這個中小企業的微型貸款加碼這是現在可以立即去面對的問題我想請教一下這樣的排序這樣子的順序是不是能夠有機會來調整包含今天的報告也是支持出口供應鏈裡面你們還是把協助企業海外佈局還有一些相關的還是排在比較前面"},{"start":14608.979,"end":14625.848,"text":"是的我想我們現在目前因應的方式是根據在這個32%關稅的情況之下然後所做出來的一個模擬那現在因為又造成這個延緩"},{"start":14627.949,"end":14653.719,"text":"這個關稅調整為10%那延緩90天嘛那這根據這樣一個情境來講我們認為在這樣的一個措施之下應該是可以解決目前的這個問題但是如果這些金額不足的話我們會啟動再做第二次的這些準備部長我剛才的意思不是說規模而已我是講說裡面細部的項目的優先順序"},{"start":14654.939,"end":14679.744,"text":"項目的優先順序第一個是紓困第一個就是說假如這個業者有這個貸款要展延我們雨天不收傘所以這個是列為第一優先第二個他有需要再借錢我們放寬這個條件部長雖然說是第一優先可是在這一個總共410億的這個分配上面他們似乎他們的規模"},{"start":14681.364,"end":14707.844,"text":"並不是最大的我想請教說這樣子的安排你覺得要不要做一些調整就你在企業界也待過你覺得現在此時此刻如果要及時因應的話因為我們剛才提到說現在是呃有10%的基準關稅但是我們不知道他說什麼是戰亡豁免因為他前幾天又說這些又沒有戰亡豁免他不是豁免而是要另外再去做特別的處役處役的話那個是指半導體的那還有"},{"start":14709.285,"end":14727.162,"text":"報告委員我想我們這一些措施都是動態的也就是說我們現在還是持續的在跟業者溝通那目前看起來我們到現在包括我們的call center包括我們的馬上辦中心我們現在所接的案子來看"},{"start":14728.504,"end":14751.884,"text":"事實上並沒有那麼危急並沒有那麼危急這個是一個事實的報告那如果這個金額已經接近我們的這個預定的一半的話當然我們會啟動新的這樣的一個來紓緩或者是紓困的一個措施好 謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":14755.653,"end":14781.383,"text":"我們現在請賴慧媛委員做詢答賴慧媛委員不在我們現在請王洪威委員做詢答好謝謝主席我請我們劉主委還有我們的郭部長"},{"start":14787.267,"end":14789.448,"text":"委員好好 主委好 部長好委員好"},{"start":14817.407,"end":14832.932,"text":"因为在今年初就传出来除了台积电除了联电我们有七大代工厂我们有七大代工厂包含鸿海广达伟创维影一叶达仁宝和朔"},{"start":14833.672,"end":14848.451,"text":"他們將在將在這個可能是五月份或者是最近他們會到美國去做訪問而且提出七大代工廠可能在川普"},{"start":14849.131,"end":14861.542,"text":"就只百日的時間左右的時間會宣布新的重大投資那其中是有關於德州竹科會不會造成整個產業外移的狀況"},{"start":14864.484,"end":14866.665,"text":"所以我想請問部長跟諸位第一個你們有沒有掌握到我們七大代工廠什麼時候會去出發到美國還有預計他們會不會宣布新的投資案我先請部長講好了"},{"start":14882.229,"end":14907.392,"text":"报告委员我想最近这几天这个新闻上面也有披露这个NVIDIA即将投资在美国就邀请这几家厂商5000亿美元的AI投资包括Apple也曾经宣告5000亿美元的投资这些因为我们跟美国的这个科技的互补"},{"start":14908.325,"end":14937.78,"text":"非常的緊密包括很多的產品幾乎過去整個供應鏈都是由台灣來做所以不管是做EMS所以不管是輝達的五千億Apple的五千億這裡面都包含台灣的資金台灣的廠商是嗎這個台灣的資金非常的小因為我們只做EMS所以我們去那邊只做代工替他生產而已所以那個投資金額相對五千億是很小的金額"},{"start":14938.573,"end":14956.946,"text":"我想請問一下,我們的七大代工廠,我們這幾個月四月或五月,他們要一起出發到美國嗎?有掌握嗎?我們對廠商的活動都有一些聯繫。新聞都有了,不可能你們沒有掌握,你們總要去問一下吧。"},{"start":14957.446,"end":14981.73,"text":"我們是有掌握有掌握所以他們確實會去那我想請問一下那麼在這個川普就職百日的時候除了剛才講的不管是輝達的投資或者是Apple的投資就主要是我們台灣的廠商會不會在5月10號附近然後我們有新的投資案的宣布"},{"start":14982.67,"end":15010.78,"text":"我跟委員報告一下我們銷美國的AI Server67%是從墨西哥過去從墨西哥過去佔了67%在這一波我們其實有找廠商談過如果台灣的關稅比較高的時候他們會Leverage墨西哥來做生產因為台灣出去美國的部分是比較少的那就我的了解有些廠商現在是有計畫從墨西哥移過去"},{"start":15011.701,"end":15028.043,"text":"從墨西哥移過去是有部分廠商是有跟我提到所以不是從台灣移過去是把原來在墨西哥的廠因為我們在墨西哥廠確實很多要從墨西哥移過去所以我的意思說所以在5月10號附近會有新的投資案的宣布"},{"start":15029.82,"end":15052.9,"text":"会不会有新的投资案的宣布会有厂商来做决定政府不会去帮他们做任何的宣布好因为我时间的关系但是目前并没有这里面的每一家但是会有蛮多家都已经有了原来也有一些在德州就有工厂的这个会它会扩大既有的工厂"},{"start":15054.302,"end":15079.831,"text":"所以這就是其實所謂的德州足科還是應該要去關切因為時間關係我想請教那個部長因為我們的總統府副秘書長張宗涵他在前不久跑去參加一個政論節目他說在立法院裡面我們立法院刪除了中小企業的新創企業科技運用的預算請問有刪除嗎部長"},{"start":15086.857,"end":15096.064,"text":"沒有沒有請問一下中小企業新創企業科技發展的預算34億878萬7千元有刪除嗎報告沒有沒有請問經濟部特別收入基金01撥補中小企業發展基金21億有刪除嗎只有凍結有凍結"},{"start":15111.001,"end":15123.918,"text":"有冻结吗没有没有冻结没有删除好来中小企业新创企业科技发展02强化资金规划运用能力奖补助费32亿5350万请问有删除吗"},{"start":15127.762,"end":15135.468,"text":"沒有都沒有好所以呢謝謝部長的回答因為經濟部的預算經濟部最清楚雖然幕僚來告訴你所以我在這邊邀請部長好跟不管是院的高層或府的高層預算的情形我想各部會最清楚那麼我們預算在3月21號已經經過總統府公告所以事實俱在但是身為總統府副秘書長"},{"start":15157.345,"end":15161.289,"text":"竟然在已經預算公告之後公然造謠然後造成社會的一個恐懼或動盪因為很多中小企業如果相信張春寒所說的話他可能以為他的相關的補助的預算被刪除了"},{"start":15175.023,"end":15177.305,"text":"可是部長在這邊非常謝謝部長把它做澄清了那這個部分我想經濟部都會確實來執行所以在這裡請部長去跟行政院尤其跟總統府反映如果他們對預算有些什麼疑慮有些什麼問題請他們直接問經濟部請他們直接問"},{"start":15197.765,"end":15210.654,"text":"部長 而不是應該在那邊隨便的跑到政論節目拿不實的消息來造謠 好嗎 可以嗎報告委員 他只是講說剛開始有但是他也了解沒有刪"},{"start":15211.636,"end":15220.318,"text":"他了解沒有刪除 還在那邊說 把那個曾經程序然後做一些說法 這不叫造謠嗎?我要講的是 我們現在這麼多中小企業這麼擔心有關於美國對等關稅的衝擊 其實大家已經非常驚嚇了"},{"start":15233.982,"end":15254.727,"text":"我們的政府官員尤其政府的高官不應該隨便的去嚇唬老百姓嚇唬中小企業正確的資訊請我們政府應該要帶頭提供而不是帶頭去混淆資訊然後製造不實的訊息好不好那麼謝謝謝謝部長跟謝謝主委謝謝好謝謝我們現在請廖先祥委員做詢答"},{"start":15271.974,"end":15296.972,"text":"好謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們郭部長郭部長委員好部長好這個談到貿易嘛就是做生意嘛一般來說企業或者是商家做生意是為了什麼商家做生意是為了什麼"},{"start":15299.228,"end":15301.778,"text":"商家做生意我開一家公司是為了什麼"},{"start":15303.227,"end":15330.246,"text":"每一家目的不會一樣吧應該是賺錢吧應該是一個普世的大家應該有一個共同的社會的認知我開一家公司就是賺錢社會企業就不一定他可能還會有一些這個社會的價值那什麼ESG或是什麼的那是附加的社會的責任那普遍大家開公司就是為了賺錢不是做功德那既然是為了賺錢那就是可能國際上貿易就是有順差那"},{"start":15332.862,"end":15342.067,"text":"順差了之後我做生意成功了我賺了很多錢那你因為可能你的生意做的沒有那麼好你賺的比較少或者是在國際貿易上面有了逆差那你要透過其他的手段來要求來說減這個貿易的順差逆差我想這可能是國際社會上面對於川普的一個政策許多的一個批評的一個地方那也因為這個對等關稅他們希望縮減了"},{"start":15360.377,"end":15383.408,"text":"順差跟貿易這個順差他們希望有更多的一些我們可能會有一些希望他會希望有更多的對美的一個投資那其中有一個項目然後其中有一個項目是這個美國AIT的時候有在提的就是一些核電的技術那剛剛部長在詢問的時候有說新的技術新的技術我們不會排斥然後就看新的技術到怎樣"},{"start":15383.968,"end":15413.218,"text":"那原來這樣核融核的技術目前國際上的新聞可能2030年最快商轉那可能這個都小規模到真的大規模的營運可能還是還要很久一個未知的時間那短期內可能還是一個還是會以核分裂的方式來做討論的一個標的啦那既然是傳統的核電廠那就有一個核廢料的問題那部長我的選區就是在萬里那萬里就是有一個核二廠那他就是有一個核廢料處理這個問題那包括台電目前在做"},{"start":15414.239,"end":15425.077,"text":"這個室外乾除已經發包了那室內乾除也準備要做了啦那無論如何我們目前對外的說法萬裡不是最終的處置場目前我們對外的說法是這樣子嘛對不對"},{"start":15427.199,"end":15449.289,"text":"我們這個儲置場要看這個科技的方式嘛最起碼我從這個原來的這個槽裡面要把這些這個用過的核廢料做一些乾式的儲藏對 目前大概就是一個中期的儲置嘛我們並沒有對外宣稱最終的儲置場在萬里但是實際上我們的國家並沒有找到最終的儲置場"},{"start":15450.069,"end":15467.793,"text":"目前的進度是還沒有找到嘛普遍上社會也會預期找到最終處置場是非常的困難是非常困難的事情這是一個科幻的事實所以說中期的一個處置到底會在萬里百多久它是一個未定數那許多人認為很多地方的鄉親會認為可能在"},{"start":15470.37,"end":15495.216,"text":"他的有生之年他的有生之年這些包括室外的乾除或是室內的乾除大家都不會離開萬里在他的有生之年可能我現在60歲了有些長輩60歲了你說50年後目標50年後要離開萬里對我來說他是沒有意義的對他來說就是終身都放在他的家鄉是在萬里所以說萬里的有些好朋友希望說討論"},{"start":15498.411,"end":15526.818,"text":"我們萬里既然我們國家沒有找到一個最終的處置場那我們現在是不是能夠務實的來討論我們的萬里它就是最終處置場的一個形態很多的民眾會是這樣討論因為中期跟最終處置它在回饋金上面有一定的差別在法定上面也有一定的差別那既然在我們的有生之年對我來說"},{"start":15528.358,"end":15542.336,"text":"對每個人來說不一樣或許是剛出生的民眾來說未來他可能在未來五六十年的時間有可能離開萬里但是對一個五六十歲的民眾來講的話你五六十年後離開萬里對他是沒有意義的你的中期跟最終處置場是沒有意義的"},{"start":15544.238,"end":15563.044,"text":"那我們萬里有部分的民眾希望經濟部能夠務實地來討論有沒有辦法用最終處置場的一個法令或者是回饋的辦法來務實地告訴大家短期內沒有辦法離開那我們就用最終處置場的一個法令跟回饋的辦法來回饋萬里的鄉親不曉得部長認為這是不是有討論的機會"},{"start":15567.214,"end":15594.681,"text":"這個我想我們來參考其他的這個國家的處理模式啦是我們也沒有什麼獨特的經驗嘛是然後我們就看其他的國家它處理模式怎麼樣來作為一個參考的辦法就是說我們當然是說現在萬里它就是一個戶外乾除跟室內乾除的一個中期處置但是當我們還沒有找到最終處置長之前我們不曉得它會在萬里擺多久"},{"start":15595.806,"end":15601.617,"text":"很多人認為就是離不開萬里啦實務上很多人認為就是揮子在萬里那既然是在這樣的情況下"},{"start":15602.759,"end":15631.46,"text":"我們的回饋辦法就不能夠用中期的處置嘛因為你是對他們來說他是永遠的地方在那邊我想這個都是有法律的認定啦是那我們還是依法去作業啦那也會參考國外的一些科技的進步啦我想這個科技進步日新月異嘛那這個最終處置廠會在哪個地方我想美國他們也或者是世界科技的國家也都有一些這個paper出來嘛"},{"start":15631.92,"end":15638.263,"text":"那我們會參考最新的科技的處置方式作為我們這個最後決策之用"},{"start":15638.715,"end":15667.361,"text":"好我想今天時間也不多我希望未來還有機會能夠跟部長討論在核廢料的處置上面如果我們國家沒有辦法很明確的告知我們萬里在地的民眾我們的最終處置場會在哪邊找到會在多久時間之內找到多久會移開萬里那我們就必須要討論一下我們必須可能要雖然說我們現在是中期的處置但是我們的可能的適用的法令在你沒有提出辦法或者說部長你講的新技術還沒有提出來之前大家認為會一直留在萬里這樣的情況下我們適用的回饋了一個"},{"start":15668.201,"end":15690.573,"text":"補助辦法就希望能夠用最終處置場的一個違規的補助方式來跟我們經濟部的討論希望未來有更多的機會你也可以不一定我是一個民營代表或是說你們也可以請我們台電或合二廠的一個相關的部門未來在跟鄉親在做討論的時候你們也可以收集一下相關的意見我傳遞的是不是鄉親的意見希望基金部能夠重視這件事情以上謝謝"},{"start":15693.183,"end":15710.971,"text":"好 謝謝 我們現在請黃建廷委員做詢答 黃建豪好 謝謝主席 主席我們請經濟部郭部長 郭部長"},{"start":15721.644,"end":15744.265,"text":"委員好部長好部長辛苦了部長今天的這個報告裡面你們也提到說針對這個貿易政策這個關稅政策台灣的這個機械工具機手工具這些產業的成本增加影響獲利所以對這些產業的衝擊會比較明顯我想以台中為例台中今天市長也特別講說這個台中一些這個傳統產業是重災區希望你不能特別多幫忙"},{"start":15745.026,"end":15770.308,"text":"那台中也盤點了幾項六大產業包含說手工具、工具機、自行車、光電面板新屬製品和航太那這些就業人口就業的這個狀況我想可以看到數據上來講的話確實在這六大產業裡面中部或台中整個中部地區來講它的影響面它的占比是非常非常高的而它的就業人口也高達這個24萬左右24萬多左右這個數據我想是各單位統一出來的數據那對這樣的衝擊"},{"start":15772.79,"end":15797.769,"text":"我不知道經濟部因為剛好你們這禮拜一也有來台中來跟這個產業界來座談那我不知道你聽完部長聽完產業界的反應之後目前的對策我們先不管談判結果怎麼樣我們針對這段時間因為你們還在談判過程嘛有90天的緩衝期那至少在這段時間裡面對於內需或對於裡面內部我們怎麼去穩定這些產業的做法我想問一下經濟部有什麼樣的想法談完之後我們"},{"start":15801.189,"end":15827.48,"text":"到台中都不止一次啦我陪總統就去一次上週五去一次吧總統去一次在總統之前我們這個產業發展署中小企業署都跟業者多方面的去談過那這個談完了以後我們當然在這個有一些措施推出來但是看起來我們之前推的"},{"start":15828.393,"end":15852.363,"text":"本來要公告的因為跟這個座談以後發現有一些微調的不一樣所以我們一直在修正像這個工具區、手工區這一些廠商來講他們現在這個並不是說缺單或者是缺工並不是這樣但是反而是大家急著要把他的這個單子提高"},{"start":15853.942,"end":15874.293,"text":"接下來找的是說船旗可能找不到船要我們政府協助他安排這個船旗可以快速的讓他送到美國去我想這些等等因為這個需求有做很大的改變但是對經濟部來講服務廠商這個就是唯一的任務所以我們會動態的調整我們的工作來 部長"},{"start":15879.676,"end":15891.024,"text":"其實座談的過程我不確定這個消息有沒有正確傳達就是說這一次當然經濟部也好或行政也好整體的這個方案很多是在拯救或是補助"},{"start":15892.951,"end":15913.243,"text":"對美直接有對美關係的貿易額的這些廠商但是其實包含說這兩天我想這個報紙中央社有一個報導是指這個像我們在法國在歐洲的這個世界台商總會長蔡國泰他也提到其實像台中很多這些機械產業它的主要出口國確實不是美國但它很多出口"},{"start":15913.883,"end":15936.892,"text":"到歐洲去或到其他國家去它的終端消費市場它依舊是在美國所以這些終端消費市場在美國的國家它的確不是直接出口到美國去的它的占比沒那麼高沒錯但它最後的送到國外去組裝然後再賣美國的這批廠商其實也受到影響那我要問的是說這批廠商有沒有在你們的這個清單裡面還是這個東西沒有在目前的這個盤點裡面"},{"start":15938.283,"end":15959.18,"text":"如果說他需要申請補助我們基本上是從寬從減從速所以過去的一些條款譬如說他有衰退跡象我們才可以補助事實上這次都沒有都拿掉把這些條件我們都是寬裕的來認定那中小微的企業如果他是企業比較小"},{"start":15959.921,"end":15979.899,"text":"那麼如果有一些資料佐證他確實有從事這個出口的這個工作或者是說他上他交給的那個客戶本身就是蘇美的這些廠商的話那在這方面我們都認定是可以所以最終只要能夠提出最終消費市場他是在美國的話他會在這一波的那個他就拿那個訂單出來看我們就可以知道"},{"start":15980.199,"end":16006.68,"text":"另外部長還有一個問題就是說因為現在是我們現在談的都是台灣跟美國之間的關係那問題是說像我剛剛提到以歐洲為例他們跟中國大陸之間並沒有這種目前並沒有產生這種關稅之戰那很大一些廠商擔心什麼就是我們的產品現在像歐洲是沒問題的但是如果在這段期間如果假設歐洲跟中國之間中國把這個所謂不能銷美國的產品他不去賣美國他反而賣去歐洲做傾銷的話"},{"start":16007.871,"end":16029.142,"text":"對於台廠也會產生衝擊這部分的話我們今天不知道怎麼面對這個事情我們當然有把這個考慮進去啦這個外溢效用那當然一樣廠商面對的問題我們就幫他解決他如果是我們一樣嘛就是幫他這個先這個紓困有必要的紓困第二個就是在短期裡面我們幫他找新的訂單嘛"},{"start":16030.302,"end":16049.734,"text":"我們幫他找新訂單所以他們在外面的展覽啊或者是我們找國外的廠商國外的buyer來台灣買東西我剛才在那個報告上面也有講所以我們是盡量來這個協助讓他們取得新的訂單部長很高興你提到這個協助找訂單啊但我要先確認一個事情就是說"},{"start":16051.035,"end":16080.204,"text":"當台灣這些廠商往海外找訂單或拓展拓銷等等這部分是鼓勵用貸款的方式還是到時候政府會有一個專案來補助這些廠商他們出國去歐洲以後去其他第三世界的國家也好其他消費市場去做相關的這個推廣還是說是由貸款的方式來處理這個部分因為在過去第一波你們公布的方案裡面似乎是用貸款的方式但是我現在問的說經過這個一兩個週討論之後補助方案或說鼓勵這些廠商出國的方案還是用貸款的方式呢"},{"start":16080.724,"end":16108.26,"text":"還是政府會有一個專案讓大家找到對的市場我們過去是用補助的方案那很多的廠商認為說補助金額太少所以我們現在大概會改變這樣的一個方式就是說我們打台灣一個品牌那聯合出展台灣一個品牌那這樣子可以增加它的效果增加它的效果第二個廠商也不需要花那麼高的成本那我們"},{"start":16109.284,"end":16127.467,"text":"政府會完全來支持來協助他們到國外出戰好謝謝最後一個問題喔這個時間到了最後一個問題之前提到這個中小微企業你們的貸款利率是2.22那我不知道2.22其實很多應該很多民眾很多廠商在座談裡面也有點反應了2.22其實就是正常啦"},{"start":16128.32,"end":16146.785,"text":"這邊有感受到政府的誠意跟幫助啊如果真的是遇到困難的廠商你們的利率2.22%還是這個數字嗎還是有機會要往下降因為這個我們有利息補貼啦我們有利息補貼2.22%嗎還是2.2%嗎我們舉例子新青安當初這個新青安是1.6% 1.8%我們代款報告委員我們代款在250萬以內補貼1.5%大概維持6個月"},{"start":16153.12,"end":16168.85,"text":"再加上是多少?如果這樣算的話,他們廠商的貸款利率大概可以加上多少?2.2減1.5啊好,所以就是0.7啦,是不是這樣子?六個月內?是那六個月之後呢?還是要看到時候經濟狀況來決定?再看看,再看看狀況好,謝謝部長來,謝謝,謝謝委員"},{"start":16170.899,"end":16175.121,"text":"好謝謝現在請嚴匡衡委員做詢問"},{"start":16190.149,"end":16213.041,"text":"林楚英委员做询答林楚英委员不在现在请苏星泉委员做询答苏星泉委员不在现在请徐欣盈委员做询答徐欣盈委员徐欣盈委员不在现在请马文君委员做询答马文君委员马文君委员不在现在请欧晓琳委员做询答欧晓琳委员欧晓琳委员不在现在请叶元之委员做询答叶元之委员叶元之委员不在"},{"start":16215.128,"end":16232.658,"text":"登記發言委員除不在場外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束委員陳超明翁曉琳所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及為答覆部分請相關單位於一周內以書面答覆並複製本會本日議程處理完畢謝謝大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}