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Kacaw等18人擬具「森林法第二條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n六、\t本院委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「森林法第十七條之二及第五十六條之三條文修正草案」案。\n七、\t本院委員盧縣一等16人擬具「森林法第九條之一及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n八、\t本院委員游顥等25人擬具「森林法增訂第八條之一條文草案」案。\n九、\t本院委員黃仁等29人擬具「森林法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十、\t本院委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「森林法第二條、第十七條之二及第五十六條之三條文修正草案」案。\n十一、\t本院委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「森林法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、\t本院委員林岱樺等16人擬具「森林法增訂第八條之一條文草案」案。\n十三、\t本院委員楊瓊瓔等26人擬具「森林法第二條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、\t本院委員張雅琳等19人擬具「森林法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(第十三及第十四案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) 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我們在這個我們在這個森林的生態保育這當然本席支持啊"},{"start":131.813,"end":159.65,"text":"你都沒有講到人那你修什麼啊你修什麼 你還來跟我們溝通什麼藍綠的立委這邊陳冠廷委員這個提案 馬文君委員提案游皓委員提案 本席提案我還沒講到連署的人喔我們全部都給打臉了嘛所以你的法案你沒有聽到名義耶好 開始本席 林班弟還是家這本席直接點出重點了"},{"start":161.349,"end":180.47,"text":"來下一頁法律不能只屬森林有幾公頃也要交代山林有幾戶人家台灣山區的發展歷史悠久政權多次更迭地籍資料的缺漏土地登記制度長期不完善而使得我許多山區居住的居住"},{"start":181.25,"end":205.477,"text":"權益被侵蝕生活環境受到威脅土地使用權及其合法的權益面臨嚴峻的挑戰這些都明白的寫在本席跟其他提案委員你們反對的這個森林法增訂第8條之一說明當中爬梭歷史民國58年的時候政府為了穩定山區居民的生計以第一版的杭照圖認定既有佔"},{"start":207.377,"end":220.082,"text":"這個暫懇跟居住適時 排除地質的敏感地區 容許簽訂正式的租約或移交國有財産主 以建築用地跟榮木用地來簽約好 照了民國66年78年90前就辦了三次的補辦作業最後一次補辦 97年 看好這個數據民國97年的申報案件當中有6200多件最後只有684件通過"},{"start":233.908,"end":252.661,"text":"只有一成多的通過表示給你申辦當中有九成現在被認定為違法所以一直就一直這二三十年來一直就被讓你認定為違法所以包括你們的詞彙用的多可怕叫做濫墾地你認為他們叫做濫墾戶多可憐啊"},{"start":258.827,"end":283.936,"text":"國有財產署可以你為什麼不可以好代表絕大數實際居住的使用的戶數始終被排除在制度之外在同一塊土地在林務機關的電腦裡面被標示為林班地在居民的記憶當中叫做家這個矛盾如果不透過法律的補正山區居民會永遠被標記為違規占用戶今天本席宣示"},{"start":285.576,"end":298.662,"text":"森林法的第8條之一是在處理國家對山區居民長期牽扯的歷史帳不是替新違章開後門搞清楚"},{"start":300.089,"end":315.863,"text":"什麼叫做你看啊你們寫什麼你們的報告寫什麼這個呢對於這個呢還是你們寫說呢之前依法排除佔用者顯示橫貧在實務執行上衍生爭議呀"},{"start":318.085,"end":334.87,"text":"哇你們這個完全都沒有看到人耶我不知道你的存在是為了樹木還是為了人而存在好再來制度門一直在收窄居民始終被排除在外現行國有林地總面積161萬公頃山區內許多建物跟農田具有長期使用與歷史背景"},{"start":339.331,"end":357.527,"text":"卻因法律設計不完備被一律視為違規佔用生活受到影響所以把人民從佔用戶改名為陳租戶不是放水而是把國家欠下的帳補給回來所以本席我也沒多厲害我就比照國有財產法"},{"start":358.968,"end":377.021,"text":"一字不漏的超過來在森林法當中國有或公有土林地於民國8207月20日以前以實際居住使用並願繳清歷代歷年的使用補償金者則管理機關也就是你林務林務署林保署就可以給予出租"},{"start":377.481,"end":400.863,"text":"好那比照國有財產署的國有財產法的精神你必須提供這些喔戶籍涉及資料房屋稅水電證明建物權利的證明再加上我會用修正單位加起來這三個士林證明以及金法院判決確認佔用的事實金法院判決他是佔用表示他真的居住啊"},{"start":401.664,"end":423.551,"text":"然後或者是林保署列管的占用戶以及政府於820721日前設置的圖資等等剛才我的提案就是把國有財產署的這些的文件寫到森林法這邊來而已所以一國兩制嘛你們就是連這樣的事實連照抄國有財產署的都懶得抄"},{"start":424.591,"end":452.411,"text":"好也就是說對像是國有跟公有林地的歷史常住戶的10點明確鎖定在82721以前必須提出可檢視的客觀證據所以本席的提案包括其他委員的提案它是一套嚴格可集合財政補償基礎的歷史補正機制不是容等的特色跟全面合法化所以本席要求在本法通過之後"},{"start":453.832,"end":476.261,"text":"當然我還是尊重主席啦如果主席我也希望主席的要懇請主席您的才智要把我們這幾個立委提案的森林法增修第八條之一納入院版你院版要有態度啊你沒有的話那你幹嘛送出來什麼大家都一定不滿意嘛你也沒有解決民怨那你送出來幹嘛"},{"start":477.481,"end":495.033,"text":"好所以呢這個通過之後我也要求其實現在你們就要做了三個月內全國國有及公有土地府82721前已有實際居住使用的紀錄的疑似戶數的盤點而這個全國的盤點當中也請你依限識別使用樣態書面送交"},{"start":497.915,"end":517.011,"text":"本委員會並公開那包括你們也事先這個規劃好在這個本法通過之後的六個月內參考國有財產法的銜接方式提出森林法第八條之一的整體實施的計畫包括審查流程證明文件要讓人家提出申請"},{"start":518.052,"end":532.733,"text":"好再來我講這幾個個案這不是個案是一整個市在的山區居民耶西投莊家案嘉義山區暴憤起伏西投莊家案市區這個西投莊家案的莊家是什麼"},{"start":533.294,"end":556.371,"text":"他世世代代與你林務局照齡契約 最後還是走向拆屋還地南投西投的莊家從清代開始就在當地耕作日治時代與戰後初期都被視為地方的遠啃人物民國56年的時候更與台大石研林簽署了40年的照齡契約結果還是被你們片面的解約那這個"},{"start":558.152,"end":578.765,"text":"嘉義山區居民跪地求土地證與生存權這個我在這邊要表達對陳明文陳前立委的致敬他2023年的時候媒體報導嘉義縣山區居民應有國有林搬地林業用地國土保安用地等邊境長年面臨住了幾十年的家被說是違法"},{"start":579.525,"end":592.38,"text":"一翻修就處罰 不斷被移送法辦要求拆屋還地的處境包括奮起伏 你要翻修啊 要搬 要還柱啊就沒理由啦 林班地限制下的日常困境是什麼日常困境是什麼"},{"start":595.303,"end":616.636,"text":"為什麼2019年公司都正式的報導嘉義縣阿里山的奮起府地區原居民因住在這個林班地連最基本的整修房屋都寸步難行長年活在這棟房子到底算不算違法的非法電我舉這三個這是比較特別的案例我的高雄市我整個山區也是這個狀況啊六龜"},{"start":619.198,"end":629.556,"text":"從我本席當立委到現在25年了尤其六龜的山區常常都有這種林班地啊你們都說違法 人家是在那邊世代居住欸好 再來"},{"start":631.499,"end":650.35,"text":"好我們看這些事實是什麼西投莊西投莊家案在現行制度下補還居民4代主張4居多久在無法在現行的體制下證明為合法最後的結局都只有拆除跟驅離所以森林法第8條之一是要解決這個結構的問題"},{"start":652.091,"end":656.172,"text":"嘉義山區案居民在立委服務處陳明文陳立委的這個服務處像跪求欸你看到這個不會流淚嗎還要人民跪求欸你們的那個農業部在幹什麼你看到這個跪求你心裡不會淌血嗎"},{"start":670.418,"end":683.99,"text":"請求這個土地剩餘生存權的畫面 凸顯這不是單一個案而是整個山區治理結構的長期問題 奮起無暗好 這雖然是林班第四你們管人家來問國有財產署 人家國有財產署就講啦"},{"start":685.351,"end":696.987,"text":"不好意思我們這個國有財產署的辦理方法很簡單陳初步你領到租約之後只要依租約使用就可以繼續合法不會被拆除我們有明確的幾個文件你只要提出來就可以了"},{"start":703.12,"end":717.628,"text":"我只差說好國有財產署再做給你做指導你連聽都不聽啊所以這可以證明一件事情從一國我們國家政府一體的情況之下國有財產署做得到你林保署就做得到"},{"start":718.388,"end":746.601,"text":"證明一件事情 只要國家承認歷史使用的私事透過解編 懲諸主席不好意思喔 再兩分鐘等機制調整地目與權利居民就可以在不犧牲森林保育的前提下講好不犧牲森林保育的前提下可以取得穩定安全的居住環境所以森林法的第八條之一就是把這樣的個案協商的經驗制度化為可普遍適用的法律工具"},{"start":747.381,"end":751.376,"text":"那再来下一页好下一页"},{"start":753.59,"end":778.253,"text":"好 山區居民本席就要立即要求 既然現在在修法階段我提出三點 這個不是森林法第八條之一不是只上座而是真正落實 包括你院版現在正在進行所以第一個 立即暫緩強制拆除你的報告說什麼啊 說說你們還在針對爛肯定的清理機制還要分聯進行排除佔用 你給我即刻給我暫停"},{"start":780.134,"end":794.981,"text":"給我即刻暫停如果在森林法當包括你的院版當中沒有修法通過以及這個當中沒有納入第八條之一的執法修法完成之前餘率帳房強制拆除局刑事移送避免編修法"},{"start":795.881,"end":805.507,"text":"邊拆孵的荒謬情況如果這個剛才你講了你的院板都還在進行當中你還在修法的階段你還在拆孵這個不是很荒謬嗎好再來全國盤點跟資料公開在你們現在本席要求三個月內你盤點全國的國有跟公有林地的疑似符合的條件的住戶全部盤點"},{"start":817.814,"end":820.957,"text":"這樣而且要以圖資跟數據的方式公開送本院備查避免黑箱操作與選擇性執法以及從現在開始你們要準備在這個六個月內完成實習細則怎麼參考一下學習一下國有財產署他們怎麼讓人民來申辦的就學習他我讓你六個月去學習好最後我要呼籲的是下一頁"},{"start":843.922,"end":866.092,"text":"這個不好意思主席我停一下這個你們一直都不能動我一直不能按這個處理一下好嗎好同一個家庭是占用戶還是國民森林法第8條之一是讓國家承認一個簡單的事實在161萬公頃的國有林地不只有樹也有一代又一代住在那裡的人你的161萬公頃裡面的國有地沒有樹人嗎"},{"start":872.455,"end":888.162,"text":"有住的原住民我們支持他 我大力的支持住的閩南人 住的漢民族你就不把他當做人看啊而且連國有財產署都認定這樣的漢民族都可以住在那邊了你的農業部還忽視"},{"start":891.964,"end":916.03,"text":"還忽視說這161萬公頃當中沒有住的人你的土地正義捍衛的人權在哪裡憲法保障的人民的居住權在哪裡本席要求今天行政院跟主管機關正面回憶這個條文背後的歷史欠帳以具體行動讓山區居民在不犧牲環境保育的前提下終於能夠在國家法律內被當成有名字"},{"start":916.61,"end":926.278,"text":"有地址有權利的公民 同一個家庭在地級上可以被叫作占用府在國家記憶裡面 應該永遠被叫作國民謝謝主席那他的回應咧 到底他針對真理法第8條這些委員提案是忽視呢還是一樣 反正跟我沒關係而且"},{"start":941.391,"end":968.369,"text":"好 要跟委員溝通 溝通是朝向來跟我們有看重的這個人民的居住權還是不要土地正義 你剛才講得非常好 土地正義我們現在只要求它要有證明那航照圖的證明 您剛才講的清朝日本時代的時候 航照圖一定會出現所以現在我們處理的是 你航照圖沒有的時候那就是先讓肯的部分 那我們就會處理來 你現在只講一個本席提的那個法案 本席 不好意思"},{"start":972.214,"end":974.755,"text":"國產署跟我們農業部本身的處理的原則是不一樣 我們有清理 國產署沒有清理"},{"start":992.865,"end":1009.471,"text":"欸那個是你的列正說我叫你清理啊你終於講出重點了所以我說你三個月內要提出清理啊所以不能像國產署一樣一個時間點切下去就結束了喔對 我想你已經講到重點因為你沒有清理因為我們有清理"},{"start":1011.272,"end":1036.779,"text":"因為你沒清理 所以你的疑似戶數我叫你盤點然後你才依照這些戴華委員跟部長 因為時間已經所以你把我高雄市山區的居民放在哪裡我六龜 紅森林 甲仙我會跟委員再溝通你把我高雄市山區的居民東九區的居民放在哪裡我就講我高雄市就好了"},{"start":1037.979,"end":1054.228,"text":"你放在哪裡 你現在還在跟我騙說好我只有一項規則就可以了為什麼國有財產署可以多少我還針對可以六項的申請的要件水電證明也可以啊你只有一個航照圖"},{"start":1055.874,"end":1078.079,"text":"我們請部長針對我們目前一些土地的一些寬容的部分因為確實很多都是很早就已經在這一塊土地生長的他的一個權益所以因為過去可能我們老一輩的沒有資料那麼清楚而造成他自己的權益受損這也不公平"},{"start":1078.459,"end":1105.28,"text":"所以拜托大家就是拜托部长我们的署长这里我们了解一下状况因为不是在高雄而已台南 嘉义每个地方都有这个状况也确实林务局的相关土地林班地的部分比较多这个状况那台南署都已经有调整了那我们林班地要怎么调整那当然我们现在是用航测图可是航测图晚之后还是有一些"},{"start":1105.8,"end":1130.268,"text":"移株之憾 那這個部分怎麼補強怎麼補足 再拜託我們部長再做一個思考 再跟我們委員再做討論那個主席可不可以請你請他們 我不敢說要求啦 我已經很寬容了說請他們研議納入院版的版本 你沒有研議納入院版版本其實對我們這些委員長期以來 所以請他先把"},{"start":1130.948,"end":1154.476,"text":"我們的意見 然後收集起來溝通 因為目前院版還沒進來他的院版沒有 我很認真看他的簡報對 他的院版我看了簡報從頭 他不管他增訂的部分他的修正的第 你的簡報的第幾頁 第二頁所以我們還有一個修法的階段嘛 討論的階段就只有第二頁所以到時候再來做處理好 待會因為時間上 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}