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16:01:05","會議時間":"2025-11-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第4會期第11次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。（11月28日）二、討論事項：本院財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境五委員會報告審查行政院函請審議「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」案等9案。（12月2日）三、11月28日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1.53284375,"end":3.3215937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.249718750000003,"end":35.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.26596875,"end":37.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.12034375,"end":50.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.18346875,"end":51.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.157843750000005,"end":80.44034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.38034375,"end":59.414093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.79471875,"end":89.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.99159375,"end":97.92284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.31096875,"end":117.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.80159375000001,"end":121.98659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.02034375000001,"end":136.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.24159375000002,"end":140.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.19034375,"end":156.09096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.27659375000002,"end":156.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.69846875000002,"end":170.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.04221875000002,"end":191.57909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.74784375000002,"end":202.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.41284375,"end":203.39159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.66159375,"end":209.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.53409375,"end":217.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.54534375,"end":228.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.50159375,"end":248.19471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.36346875,"end":251.95784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.24471875,"end":255.73784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.87284375000002,"end":259.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.90596875,"end":273.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.33846875,"end":282.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.38346875,"end":305.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.23221875,"end":305.77221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.24471875,"end":311.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.40846875,"end":312.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.38284375,"end":354.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.75971875000005,"end":331.82721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":331.82721875000004,"end":331.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.89471875000004,"end":332.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.62534375,"end":355.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.16534375000003,"end":367.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.61909375000005,"end":377.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.94659375000003,"end":382.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.68471875,"end":389.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.38471875000005,"end":382.80659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.35909375,"end":385.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.24909375000004,"end":386.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.05471875,"end":388.49346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.06721875000005,"end":393.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.83034375,"end":415.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":394.99034375,"end":395.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.32721875000004,"end":405.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.99659375000005,"end":409.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.52346875,"end":412.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.56096875000003,"end":417.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.38346875,"end":444.88971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.26534375000006,"end":444.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.88971875000004,"end":476.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.64471875000004,"end":487.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.54284375000003,"end":478.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.61846875000003,"end":481.54221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.29721875,"end":483.83721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.35596875000005,"end":485.87909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.92534375,"end":492.42659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.44784375,"end":501.97784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.28721875,"end":495.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.29034375000003,"end":510.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.84596875000005,"end":527.2565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.38784375,"end":530.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.8003437500001,"end":575.13096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當然在災難的時候有時候因為緊急避難的關係來不及攜帶常備的用藥後面有些用藥的需求所以剛剛委員所設定的情境是有藥有藥師 但是沒意思"},{"start":331.961,"end":354.061,"text":"所以在这个情形之下呢那我们就分两个状况一般如果是止痛症热啊的这些药物那属于多数都有OTC啦所以这个止湿用药呢由药师就可以交付这个大概是没有问题那问题是在于这个处方药就需要有一支处方的那处方药通常呢它有责任的归属的问题一方面呢"},{"start":355.371,"end":376.351,"text":"這個病人吃什麼藥他可能自己都不知道所以還需要透過診斷之後才能夠給處方所以我們現在在災難的時候一般我們都是馬上就開放遠距醫療可以透過遠距的方式由遠端的醫師診治一下病人之後那麼下處方那由藥師來交付我覺得這個方法就會"},{"start":378.032,"end":394.537,"text":"改善我们那个钥匙医师还没有到钥匙就可以处理所以我刚才你讲的第一时间因为这次是真的面临到这个问题我今天会提出来这个问题就是那时候当时所遇到所以我刚才听部长这样讲所以这一次花莲我们就立刻开放远距医疗但是你那个是之后了"},{"start":395.037,"end":404.004,"text":"因為我們當初藥師進駐的時候其實醫生沒有所以我剛才講幾個情況剛才部長你剛才講的就是說我們可以讓遠距醫療變成一個常規我們現在要釐清幾個情況剛才部長的意思是說如果那時候藥師在的時候如果是有OTC的那些藥的時候人家捐贈的藥的時候藥師是可以交付的對不對OTC的藥是沒有問題的"},{"start":417.535,"end":443.694,"text":"因為也遇到了那時候很多志工還是有一些就是那時候有一些災民然後他們可能就是酸痛還是有外傷但是因為有一些酸痛的貼布是處方藥但是它是非常安全的它是安全無虞的但是因為那個時候只有大家的捐贈捐贈來的就是那個就是貼布就是一般的處方藥而且是非常安全的請問一下這樣藥師可以交付給災民嗎"},{"start":444.915,"end":473.122,"text":"如果它還是處方藥那這個您也是專業的藥師所以如果從您的角度來看認為它是相當安全的不妨透過機制改類在我們的FDA食藥署裡面也有一個委員會那麼在討論哪一些藥物呢具有安全性相當高那又有民眾的可敬性的考慮它可以改類從處方藥改成OTC就是指示用藥所以我想"},{"start":473.823,"end":488.842,"text":"這個就是部長剛才說的處方藥變成指示用藥這樣可以擴大藥師的服務而且在災區的時候在第一時間的時候藥師也可以用專業去服務還有去救這些人我們有這樣的程序來討論經過委員會討論改類"},{"start":491.545,"end":508.616,"text":"但是實際上其實太多安全無虞的處方藥現在都沒有轉成只是用藥這就是最大的問題我們可以持續討論因為很難臨時去判斷說這個可以改這個應該從平常就討論好了"},{"start":509.276,"end":525.183,"text":"那部長你是不是要規範做一個表啦就是某些藥物你覺得是安全無虞的啊但是這些處方藥是可以在那個時候第一時間的時候黃金時間72小時內可以藥師可以使用的我想可以有藥師團體或者是醫師團體來提出建議這樣"},{"start":531.471,"end":557.681,"text":"因為已經遇到了因為這個跟02、06、04、03不一樣你知道嗎這一次的這樣的水災是不一樣的以前02、06還有04、03我都有遇過那時候也是馬上成立一個緊急的醫療團但是那時候市區都是還是有診所還是都是還是有藥局的但是這一次光復不一樣它是整個鄉幾乎那邊整個都沖掉了連藥局也沒有連診所也都沒有了"},{"start":557.981,"end":584.782,"text":"所以我想我們既然遇到這個問題我們真的是要來檢討還有看有什麼不足的我們就是應該要把它檢討然後把它加入以免以後當然我們大家不要想說以後會有但是就是說我們至少可以補充這些不足這樣可以嗎未來我們會讓在第一時間就開放遠距醫療馬上就可以使用到遠距的方式那我們醫師就可以從遠距來協助藥師"},{"start":585.322,"end":599.864,"text":"那大家捐贈的藥品怎麼辦呢像這一次捐贈的藥品也是沒有處理這個還是有一個問題因為他的安全性這個責任的問題像這一次我們也不建議要做一個違反什麼志工就帶了藥去發"},{"start":601.025,"end":618.193,"text":"事後會有一個安全性的考量責任的歸屬所以我還是覺得還是要回歸到那並不是沒有藥有藥還是按照常規的使用方式不要隨便去捐贈捐贈的時候你不了解這個來源有時候為什麼要有衛生局的把關機制就是要"},{"start":618.413,"end":633.104,"text":"我知道但是那時候是真的是沒有藥我跟你講說這個情況是跟02、06、04、03是完全不一樣那沒關係反正衛福部我想說還是依照這個可能還是要檢討討論一下好不好我們持續討論今天還剩五分鐘而已我還有很多問題要問的"},{"start":634.505,"end":650.462,"text":"好 接下來我要詢問有關女性的生育自主權的問題就是緊急事後避孕藥的問題上會期我已經請教過衛福部長邱太元部長了但是他這個就是剛才安全無虞的藥為什麼處方藥要變成止失用藥但是部長換人了"},{"start":651.323,"end":672.517,"text":"到現在衛福部到現在都一直沒有給我一個正面的回應所以部長你是醫生你也知道服用緊急避孕藥是越快越好的12小時內服用是最好的所以美國婦產科學會都已經公開指出避孕藥是非常非常安全的藥品在根據歐洲緊急避孕的國際聯盟在10月1號的時候最新統計"},{"start":673.317,"end":689.227,"text":"目前已经有90个国家都已经把紧急事后病药列为非处方药这就回归要刚才再去这个问题就是说这个已经那么安全了对不对为什么还在用这个当作医生的处方药呢那你这样药是根本没有办法使用啊"},{"start":690.107,"end":717.578,"text":"所以為了確保婦女對緊急事後避孕藥的可靜性和自主性其實國際緊急避孕的聯盟他們都是有建議說這個根本不需要醫師診療就可以自主服用所以台灣早在93年的時候婦女團體跟醫生也有召開過記者會那時候緊急事後避孕藥列為只是用藥了所以現在很多女權團體還有進行網路上面的問卷調查"},{"start":718.318,"end":744.504,"text":"幾乎有七成以上的人都支持緊急事後病藥轉類為止腎用藥我覺得好奇怪那麼多國家都可以了對不對那衛福部是不是要跟國際接軌呢還是我們要背道而馳呢對不對部長那你覺得呢我們是要我們是要跟國際接軌嗎還是人家90個國家都這樣做了我們現在一直擋在這邊那麼多年我從去年講到現在了對不對"},{"start":745.584,"end":765.328,"text":"我也覺得好奇怪我們口口聲聲不是說健康台灣我們要跟國際接軌嗎我們要看到人家好的優點我們要學習嗎那這樣為什麼我們這些國家都這樣做了那為什麼我們還是背道而馳呢而且我們這樣大家給的意見你們都視而不見了那請部長回答"},{"start":766.108,"end":785.604,"text":"我想這個所謂的事後緊急病癮藥就是一次性的高劑量荷爾蒙用藥那以目前在台灣的話它還是屬於醫師的處方藥沒有錯那剛剛您提到說讓這個用藥轉類成所謂的只是用藥那麼直接在藥局購買不需要醫師處方來作為緊急這個"},{"start":789.166,"end":812.741,"text":"這個意外使用 我說90幾個國家全世界先進國家都已經這樣了我也了解啦 我也了解這個日本過去是先有一個事辦他在某一個區域地區性的藥局去事辦事辦之後到了最近他到了最近才真正轉隊所以他也有一定的過程他也不是一下子就全部的開放所以我們來研議看看"},{"start":813.021,"end":837.083,"text":"但是部長你知道我們104年的時候已經開過專家會議了決議那時候也決議轉類了在105年的時候也發布了這個已經變成只是藥品了那時候已經都說跟隨著美國的制度但是這個政策到現在還是停滯不前啊所以我覺得你剛才講了只是藥品有一個成藥之一小組嘛對不對"},{"start":837.623,"end":852.017,"text":"那個也開過會過啦說已經確定啦要轉成只是用藥啦但是現在是說醫生團體專家評估暫無共識只是一個醫生團體講了這句話到現在都沒有做我也覺得好奇怪而且這樣"},{"start":853.462,"end":874.5,"text":"看已經過了10年了那我在想這個東西是因為開放這個轉成只是用藥會影響某個特定團體嗎的利益嗎還是不願意開放呢還是部長你有沒有受到什麼特別人士給你的壓力呢我想這個還是基於病人的安全用藥的安全的考量當然啦92國家都不基於病人的安全嘛那92國家開放"},{"start":876.601,"end":899.805,"text":"那些人不安全的嗎我們盡快的再去討論出一個共識我覺得這個要加快腳步啦那我請教卓院長卓院長我們政府不是都要推動和營造友善生育環境嗎是不是所以女性除了要安心生育外是不是女性自主可以自由選擇何時懷孕的友善政策應該也是一個負責任政府要為人民著想的嗎所以現在衛福部這樣跟民意背道而馳"},{"start":904.346,"end":911.633,"text":"那樣的話限制女性自己選擇是否自生育的自主權利你覺得那個院長你覺得這樣合理嗎"},{"start":913.259,"end":935.695,"text":"這個當然尊重女性的自主權利但我也要相信專業的醫師建議所以還是讓專業的專業醫師現在90個國家都已經通過了我們現在還在那邊說專業醫師現在全部醫師團體都是黨下來一黨黨了10年已經通過了到現在黨黨現在10年那現在是永遠都不要做了嗎現在連日本都已經做了"},{"start":936.636,"end":950.761,"text":"接近的國家都已經做了那我們台灣說要跟國際接軌是在接軌什麼好 我會請食藥署再盡快召開一次專家會議大家再把它討論定案好 謝謝好 謝謝立委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}