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海軍參謀長報告當天他的毛巾是在原廠在做一個對 他在調教嘛 對不對那他是不是因為壞了所以拿去調教那這個事情是什麼時候知道的呢在海上測試之前就知道了吧在規劃那天定義出去做海測之前就知道毛巾是損壞的狀況然後在原廠調教吧"},{"start":199.262,"end":215.849,"text":"對 它當初就是原廠它在做測試的時候它自己發覺有些元件要做必要的更換要做必要的更換嘛所以我覺得這個事情是這樣子既然它有要修正的地方壞了要調校那為什麼你今天海上測試的時候不是等它調校完畢之後準備好了再出海測試呢這到底是本來就台船或海軍我們都不在意還是呢覺得"},{"start":227.054,"end":232.432,"text":"用這樣的方式加速然後呢不顧大家的安全這件事是可以被接受的"},{"start":234.077,"end":259.913,"text":"跟委員報告那潛艦用的毛他一般是在這個潛航的時候他是不會用這個毛那他一般用於在航進這個轄災水域或是進出港那你還是不是需要嘛跟委員講他是一個多元備變的手段因為對啊那你還是不是需要嘛你這樣講的話航道不需要那就別裝啦那他有沒有必要性嘛我看永昂將軍都在搖頭"},{"start":262.135,"end":287.552,"text":"你說裝這個毛沒有必要性毛巾沒有必要性這是你現在講的喔你現在告訴我們說海昆號上面不用裝毛巾也沒關係喔你的意思是這樣喔你要注意你的說法你的意思是告訴全台灣的民眾海昆號上面沒有毛巾也無所謂你是要做這樣的定義嗎我跟委員先報告他有一個先決條件就是說他的主要動力跟備用動力的系統是正常的"},{"start":288.092,"end":309.489,"text":"他的毛巾然後還有他當天我們左營高雄港是有做全程的所以他其實實際上對海昆號來說是必要的東西嘛但是你們在測試的時候你們當時他就是壞了所以在原廠調校沒有然後呢你們認為自己經過評估之後測試還是OK所以就去測試了不是這樣子嗎"},{"start":310.766,"end":328.895,"text":"那是經過嚴密的這個 那既然日後要回專為什麼要急著出港那你今天講說旁邊有介乎就想吵吵了事這個對在船上的這些船員測試員當中他們會認為你們根本沒有把人家的生命當一回事這就是在碰運氣"},{"start":330.556,"end":355.698,"text":"根據委員報告 我們這個評估是專業團隊 台船 國外技協還有最終使用者 船上的官兵一起跟我們做評估如果你認為船上的使用者 大家都這麼的接受的話今天又和有哪些人會覺得說是受不了然後向進報去做這樣子的爆料 而且是符合事實的呢我要講的事情是說 你今天台船大言不慚的去引用船舶法 說它不包含艦艇"},{"start":356.659,"end":375.549,"text":"但是對艦艇來說其實我們會希望它是更加的嚴格而不是更鬆散它本來就是必要的航安設備如果這樣的測試是可以被接受的那以後是不是所有的海測你們都可以在沒有毛機的情況下測試國防部可以接受甚至海昆號完成以後出海"},{"start":376.289,"end":387.236,"text":"沒有毛巾國防部也要接受嗎以後出海的時候不是測試喔完成以後出海我毛巾壞了我照樣開出去無所謂這是今天國防部要給我們的態度嗎跟委員報告艦艇有區分兩種狀況一種是他完成成軍服役的服勤艦"},{"start":397.625,"end":409.198,"text":"它是完整的扶擒艦毛巾是一個重要的一樣是選項裝備但是有的替代方案另外海昆現在在建造階段你說的替代方案在當天海上測試的時候有嗎"},{"start":410.526,"end":436.311,"text":"有提供方案就是我剛有提到主電力 墮機跟相關應變的措施都所以你的意思還是一樣啊完整的潛艦已經完備之後就算是已經測試完交艦之後你認為海空號上面沒有毛巾國防部可以接受報告委員這不是 他現在正在做測試是啊 在測試的時候對於安全來說當然也很重要我問你一個問題喔今天你要做測試是不是要講求數據正確"},{"start":439.909,"end":450.045,"text":"要看哪種的監測環境你要不要講求你今天測試的時候數據是你測試的時候各項的數據是符合到時候你交件以後你所得到的內容"},{"start":451.311,"end":461.278,"text":"不需要要看條件之下因為他這次出去做的是比較並不需要很精準你們的海上測試都不需要很精準這個話我們在國會殿堂上也可以講的出來那所有全民聽到你們這樣講之後會覺得你們的海上測試做的是嚴謹的嗎現在大家希望是一個嚴謹的測試我告訴你上一次是什麼沒有你記得嗎"},{"start":477.085,"end":492.028,"text":"什麼東西是跟人家借來裝的 我們自己沒有潛望鏡這一次是什麼沒有 毛巾沒有下一次是什麼沒有 不知道每一次都丟三落四的 少東少西的那這樣子我就問 你剛剛講說測試不需要很精準的數據 為什麼你會這樣講因為我簡單講 你今天有沒有毛巾對於艦艇的整體重量有沒有影響"},{"start":504.056,"end":524.335,"text":"跟委員報告 剛才會跟委員報告他這次出去的主要測試目的就是在做他做高轉速我剛問你的問題沒有回答我嘛今天有沒有毛肌對於健體的整體重量有沒有影響對於健體的整體的重量有沒有毛肌有沒有影響"},{"start":526.55,"end":544.064,"text":"好 非常的低 配重有沒有影響配重配重 船上會做自己的平衡跟配重 配重沒有影響 平衡也沒有影響重心跟浮心的計算數據有沒有差異沒有 差異並不大你都說並不大 但是就是會有嘛 對不對都會做統一考量"},{"start":544.424,"end":548.406,"text":"你就是只是說因為你們覺得你們自己做現在的統一考量那就是你們說的算但是實際上你剛剛講的會有差異不管你今天差異多少它的測試數據跟你實際上面最後你得到的就是不一樣我們今天測試都是講求什麼我們希望你測試的東西就是測試跟最終的結果是一樣的"},{"start":565.416,"end":583.489,"text":"結果你少了這個毛巾之後我先不說你的安全性的問題以及船員你問船員每一個人已經要測試說我沒有毛巾但是我們覺得很安全所以我們這樣出去可不可以那請問他們怎麼回答你不可以但是大家的心情是什麼你們有沒有拿人家的生命當一回事他心裡有數啊那我剛剛講了嘛你今天不管說你的艦艇的重量配重"},{"start":588.712,"end":593.095,"text":"重心 浮心等計算數據你說影響維護 但它就是有影響今天簽一法而動全身海昆號我們希望它是做好而且能夠安全然後呢而且是一個很好的潛艦所以對所有的測試我們都希望能夠用高標準跟高規格結果你告訴我的是一個說我們今天只要說記寫所謂的你們的專業團隊認為沒有問題就出去了旁邊反正有兵力戒護等等的"},{"start":615.569,"end":636.459,"text":"那這個對大家來說今天台船的說法我必須說國防部未必要買單啊你今天應該是要監督台船萬無一失而不是說今天所謂的標準就是呢台船說了算台船來回應那下一次如果用的設備壞掉涉及重要安全的像這樣子的一個情況那你還要持續往外測試嗎"},{"start":639.145,"end":655.247,"text":"公務員報告我是不是總統大概就三點第一點就是說我想秉持安全還是首要的考量所以我們每次的海測都有經過完整的逐項評估會制定安全的規範跟風險管理來應處在符合安全條件下才會安排海上測試"},{"start":656.528,"end":672.121,"text":"就這一次的這個潛艦用錨是在一般潛航的時候並不使用它是在航經狹窄水域或進出港的時候因應緊急狀況作為減速使用是一個多重的備援選項之一那我們評估這個主動力"},{"start":674.022,"end":696.204,"text":"主被動力的系統正常那還有拖船警戒及伴護的兵力已經全程支援之下那個毛具他在這一次的這個護航測試不是一個必要的條件但我想潛艦在現在還在建造測試的階段那毛巾呢之後我們還是會在調校之後回裝之後我們會以護航"},{"start":698.125,"end":715.576,"text":"無航的方式來測試下毛跟起毛的操作功能所以等到回裝之後我們會配合什麼時候要回裝12月中12月中要回裝所以這樣很清楚了我們會配合後續的海上測試會來執行SAT的驗收"},{"start":719.958,"end":732.814,"text":"因為你十二月中你知道十二月中毛巾才要修好所以如果你今天你不先讓他出去的話你覺得你十一月的海戰你就要跳票了因為你出不去了所以你才說喔很安全那就讓他先出去否則的話照理來說他應該是要一起去測試的"},{"start":737.62,"end":760.506,"text":"報告你現在已經是12月1號了所以我的意思是說我們沒有在做任何政治計畫你海策的時候是11月不是12月今天不是今天就海策的部長要完成全部的海策你們本來就已經跳票了事實上現在已經是做不到所以我們還是以秉持安全為首要的考量是說你11月要海策對不對我們剛剛已經做了充分的說明了你上一次的時候是不是說你11月說要海策"},{"start":765.988,"end":777.032,"text":"所以說如果你12月的時候毛巾才要修好然後再裝上去然後才能做海測的話那又再跳票一次所以說為了要趕這個時間點來測試所以呢你就告訴大家說哎呀這個反正我們要去的地方沒有毛巾主動力系統安全所以還是讓他出去了那你想要避免大家來通緝說海空號再度跳票的結果在於你呢之後12月的時候又還是基本上還是得去做測試的嘛"},{"start":794.898,"end":805.261,"text":"那既然要測試的話為什麼就是你沒有一個道理說毛巾在11月的時候這一次的海測上面如果我告訴你如果他是好的你會不會讓他去測嘛如果他本來就沒有要維修他本來就是好的你會不會讓他也一起去測嘛也不會嗎你就把他拔掉嗎你也不會這麼做啊"},{"start":816.587,"end":828.775,"text":"我還是再次強調我們都經過安全的評估我想沒有什麼要趕著要在幾月要進行你們基本上你們都會說沒有要趕我想這邊要正式的還是要否認有這樣的任何的政治性考量請委員能夠我告訴你如果今天這個毛巾他根本沒有壞掉他也沒有再調教的情況他上不上海昆號他測不測試他測試你們剛剛的說法非常清楚了"},{"start":846.007,"end":850.65,"text":"那就是因為他壞了所以他這次海測的時候沒有要下一次的時候再測不是很簡單的道理嗎所以我沒有要講說這是政治性海測這是船員然後呢他們向進報的報導裡面所說的我在意的是什麼第一毛巾損壞的情況下的安全問題對於很多在船上測試的人來說他們是不舒服的"},{"start":872.702,"end":889.097,"text":"第二測試數據的問題就算你今天告訴我影響不大他就是有影響第三國防部的態度應該是要用最嚴厲最嚴謹的方式來監督台船而不是幫台船洗地最後就是人事問題我今天時間不夠我只講"},{"start":891.799,"end":898.722,"text":"為什麼只要涉及海昆號的人士更迭的速度都特別快台船從鄭文郎董事長之後又換了兩次董事長黃曙光走了 唐華掉崗位那對海昆號的相關資訊要怎麼銜接這個人士拼裝車是很難讓外界安心的"},{"start":910.586,"end":913.348,"text":"希望我們部長能夠針對海昆號相關測試的相關的人員讓他穩定下來不要再這樣子換來換去會讓大家感到非常的不安心因為時間有限的關係 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}