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我們麻煩部長有請顧部長部長早安 您辛苦了我想第一個問題我們就直接來我想請問一下您之前說11月海空號無法交件每天要罰19萬這個部分已經開始要做了嗎"},{"start":23.54,"end":48.308,"text":"我們會就按合約來好 那就這個部分麻煩雖然杯水車薪跟他的總金額比起來但是既然已經跟國人說了就麻煩貴部一定要做到不管說這個台船現在到底是什麼人貴部還是要做到好 那第二個問題我想今天的主軸是軍人加薪待遇結構的檢討那我們都支持軍人"},{"start":49.808,"end":74.659,"text":"待遇要提高那我們也絕對支持國防要強化但是我們要問一個很根本的問題立法院三讀通過的軍人待遇條例那每個月要調高加幾這比約300億的預算其實是可以穩定軍心尤其是在兩岸兵兇戰亡或是總統前幾天講了那個2027的這個事情之後其實穩定軍心穩定民心是非常重要的事情但是我們現在卻發現"},{"start":76.6,"end":92.822,"text":"我們對內我們拒絕編列對國軍的加薪預算甚至還提出四限來拖延這個完全違憲違反權力分立第二個我們對外卻制定了一兆兩千五百億"},{"start":94.384,"end":107.44,"text":"的這個特別預算這史上最大的特別預算而且我國目前在執行的跟國防有關特別預算不是只有這個大家不要誤會的不是只有一照2500億是還有好幾個特別預算目前都在執行都在花錢中"},{"start":108.962,"end":130.621,"text":"我來跟 所以我一直在想就是說我們對於這個300億是0.03兆我們斤斤計較但我們對於美方的1兆2500億卻付得很開心然後一直要讓美國再次偉大那讓美國再次偉大之前可不可以想想讓台灣也稍微讓我們中華民國也稍微偉大一點那我想 請問一下 在談新的1.25兆"},{"start":133.264,"end":151.096,"text":"這個軍購之前我想我們到底是在護國軍還是在護美軍我們先算一下舊帳2019年的那66架F-16V的2472億原本是2023年第四季就要交兩架2026要完成66架但是我們現在看到的"},{"start":152.349,"end":178.093,"text":"而目前我們審計的報告我們一件 一架都還沒有交而且我們付出來的錢已經超過七成了那我們還是必須照常的付款那這個巨額的資金到美國去只是美方就是賺寶的利息動不動都是幾百億嘛那當初預算編列是依據美方所提供的那個發價書LOA來去所訂的時程啦但是後來都沒有做到"},{"start":178.573,"end":206.354,"text":"那2019年說2023年會來結果現在也都沒有來嘛那我在這邊跟我先跟國人報告一下也跟部長報告一下一般買賣商購的那DCS它就好像你去買車嘛那車商說什麼時候要交沒交就是罰錢東西不好也要罰錢也要賠償但是呢我們交了兩千多億卻拿不到一架戰鬥機還不能罰美國的錢我想這個就是軍購案嘛就是FMS嘛"},{"start":207.174,"end":235.724,"text":"軍購案 好 那軍購案的發架書裡面這LOA的發架書裡面有幾個霸王條款部長你跟我一樣都念法律一定非常的清楚我請大家仔細聽好第一個 他沒有罰則第二個 交貨其成是僅供參考第三 死都要付錢第四個 最後我們還是要保護美國最高利益內容很簡單 請大家看一下我的那個PowerPoint上面 寫得非常的清楚"},{"start":237.464,"end":265.739,"text":"FMS就是政府對政府 所以裡面沒有預期罰款的問題再來 交貨的期程 這個只是預估值沒有任何強制第三 死都要付錢就算美國武器一拖再拖連通知你都懶得通知你 為什麼他一拖再拖你還是得付錢最後啊 我們要保障美國所有的利益我們美國只能賺 不能賠而且所有的風險 台灣單這個就是目前的狀況嘛部長 你有沒有認為 我哪一句講錯"},{"start":267.312,"end":283.226,"text":"跟委員報告吼那個無論如何都得付錢這句話我想不盡正確吼我想我們上次已經有報告過了那你們付多少了 請問F16V付了百分之多少了請問F16V付了百分之多少 幫委員我們幫委員我們從"},{"start":286.232,"end":304.472,"text":"請問F16V付了百分之多少不好意思我的題目非常簡單請問F16V我們付了百分之多少了我們付到百分之六十左右就停下來了好那是不是也是付了嘛那你要的回來嗎但是現在已經四十八架在組他在組的過程我們"},{"start":305.293,"end":317.39,"text":"就必須要付這些生產所需要的錢好 然後呢 都拿不到啦你大筆資金匯過去啦你按照原來合約期成付款錢就留在美國啦請問一下你要的回來嗎我講一句 要的回來嗎"},{"start":320.711,"end":339.745,"text":"跟委員報告我想我們已經說明了我們成立了專案辦公室然後也美方也盡力的在盡快的加速這樣剛剛站規師也提到了在線上生產的這個飛機的架數已經50架所以我想我們預期我們因為明年的年底最後到期嘛"},{"start":340.265,"end":355.522,"text":"那我想我們會盡快的在這一年當中進促警察加速這個飛機的交付這個就好像部長您在十月的時候回答媒體的話說我們海昆號十一月交接有相當大的挑戰這就政客的話術嗎"},{"start":356.923,"end":382.689,"text":"根本不可能啊你到現在連前一次都沒有過了11月可能交件嗎那一樣你現在說我們2026總目標不變這個其實也是不可能嘛好就算今天美方真的2026一次全部給你大說哈一次全給你請問一下我們的人員培訓呢我們的地勤呢我們的品質驗收呢難道就是隨隨便便一次全來嗎那"},{"start":384.309,"end":411.962,"text":"你不用擔心說我們國人 我們這些國軍使用飛機的安全性好 所以啊因為你們說的是說2026總目標不變嘛對不對 那我只是跟你說好 就算總目標不變馬上就2026啦 馬上就2026了那你一次全部交給我們不可能嘛要全部 我們現在要盡量的加快但是當然要全部能夠再交2026年以前交機 這確實有相當大的挑戰"},{"start":413.903,"end":422.428,"text":"部長現在不是全部不全部的問題就算我剛講就算美方可以在明年一年全部交完但是呢全部交完還是有一些驗收的問題啊"},{"start":423.962,"end":450.789,"text":"出廠檢測品質的問題啊我們有沒有足夠的飛官跟地勤啊有沒有辦法同時驗收跟接收這66架這都是問題人才的部分空軍都有在準備那有關這個相關的測試的飛行相關所要進行的這些驗收當然都要嚴謹的來進行相當大的挑戰其實這意思就一樣嘛其實就是政治人物的空曠那我剛剛在跟您報告"},{"start":452.91,"end":472.181,"text":"錢會滯留美方這是審計部的報告這不是我講的您現在如果覺得不會那您去告審計部好了不然就請你的同仁準備好審計部的報告給你看為什麼審計部要告訴我騙我說目前錢就是滯留美方那如果這樣的話跟你說的就不一樣好那再來就是"},{"start":473.394,"end":492.922,"text":"2026雖然F16V您的說法總目標不變但是我也說即便總目標不變一次66架梭哈給你但是我們有非常多行政上面根本不可能達到的就像您當時說11月海昆號交建有相當大的挑戰一樣大家聽完都在笑好那我再跟"},{"start":494.431,"end":519.186,"text":"部長說啦 你們2019年啊 已經如期交貨F16V已經被騙了一次 人才兩失那你 我怎麼知道 跟你怎麼知道1.25兆這個軍購會準時當年2019年的部長也是說沒有問題啊 美方都已經講好其成了但是做不到就做不到 而且最慘的是軍購做不到 還沒辦法處罰他跟商購不一樣 那請問一下那我怎麼能夠相信1.25兆的這個軍購會準時呢"},{"start":522.208,"end":545.58,"text":"更重要的是您說1.25兆的採購我們已經取得美方的報價美方也已經提供交運的期程但是我剛剛也說了這個交運的期程這個只是最佳交運時間這只是一個建議的他沒有做到也沒有關係所以這就是讓我們很擔心會不會又變成一個大錢坑另外"},{"start":546.681,"end":574.77,"text":"依照軍購的程序我們是要先送需求信函給美方嘛LOR給美方之後美方才會回復報價那既然說你說有報價那這程序上代表百分之百就是走軍購的那依照2500億又沒有罰則也沒有違約罰則交易期程 交貨期程只是供參考那這個就是我們將來會擔心的所以我希望這個禮拜能不能夠給我們一個資料就你們可以揭露的"},{"start":575.35,"end":593.38,"text":"部分不要再扣我們紅帽子什麼要我要拿資料給誰不用就你們可以揭露合法可以揭露不影響櫃部運作可以揭露的情況下給我資料就我剛剛提的那些我們質疑的地方啦不要只是口頭保證就是"},{"start":595.574,"end":618.95,"text":"違約交不了貨怎麼辦第二個如果說就是delay沒有違約金怎麼辦再來交不了貨怎麼辦因為這在F16V上面都發生那如果我們1.25兆這個東西也發生了你們打算怎麼處理這是一個很重要的點再來我也想要請問一個很重要的問題就是一個程序上面的問題你們可以看一下PPT"},{"start":620.543,"end":627.972,"text":"今年10月21號我們剛剛王定宇委員他去美國參加國防工業會議的時候就已經有提到這個為期7年1.3兆的這個軍事採購"},{"start":632.694,"end":661.084,"text":"結果呢 卓榮泰在面對院會的時候他卻他在許曉清問他 他卻一無所知啊那以我對於編列預算的了解是國防部先編列預算行政院核定以後才算數那為什麼會發現民進黨的立委都已經知道了結果行政院院長竟然不知道那這個是變成是美方寫好報價單直接交給我們代表帶回來啊那我們國防部再直接抄一抄 然後寫特別條例"},{"start":661.804,"end":690.436,"text":"這不就是幾乎就是要台灣來硬吞下去嗎所以這個程序有問題嘛院長本來應該是國防部編行政院核定結果現在是立委在外面都公布了就院長說我還不知道所以這個期程上面就給國人無限的遐想到底鬼出在什麼地方還是我們王定委員就會算命就會預測未來是這樣子嗎所以這一整個都非常的奇怪到底我們的執政黨在玩什麼東西"},{"start":691.536,"end":713.261,"text":"他要把台灣掏空到什麼地步去我就覺得很莫名其妙而且一兆兩千五百億耶你一兩百億都跟國人斤斤計較一兆兩千五百億卻卻是這麼的隨便像剛剛王定義委員也講什麼財化法補發還有人講補發一萬年金健保等等說在窮台在掏空台灣在配合解放軍"},{"start":714.561,"end":725.269,"text":"這些錢不是掏空台灣這些錢也不是在野黨拿走這些錢是交給全體人民或交給地方政府是用在人民身上但是軍購"},{"start":726.69,"end":749.885,"text":"是把錢拿去美國 好 就算你說拿去買武器是為了國人但是買了武器交不了貨 那我怎麼對國人交代所以我們當立法委員 我必須要監督這東西我再說一次 我尊敬您部長 您是我們法律大前輩我完全支持我國的國防我絕對支持國人 國防一定非常的重要我們要買適當的武器 能交貨的武器好 再來喔"},{"start":750.987,"end":778.965,"text":"部長第四條你們這次特別條例草案的第四條裡面七大項我也看到幾個很恐怖的點部長您是法律人我們也很清楚第六款第四條第六款強化作戰持續量能相關設備這句話空泛到不行法律人如果可以寫出這樣子的條款那等於是完全授權你愛怎麼做就怎麼做啦我買垃圾袋也可以說是要持續作戰強化作戰的持續的量能啊所以"},{"start":780.032,"end":805.945,"text":"為什麼會有一個這麼空泛的條款呢然後你貼上一個任何東西你只要美國掏出來叫我們買你就貼一個標籤說這就是強化作戰持續量能所需要的結果我們就必須全部買單所以這就是我第一個質疑的點為什麼第六款有這麼空泛的條文第二個第七款台美共同研發及採購合作但是呢我在這一款裡面完全看不到"},{"start":807.25,"end":820.25,"text":"任何技術移轉的比例台灣本地產值的門檻價格審議機制沒有一個說得清楚那請問一下這樣子的櫃買條款如果真的過了以後"},{"start":821.465,"end":850.017,"text":"美國跟台灣說要共同研發共同採購結果呢技術最後留在誰手上專利留在誰手上台灣是不是又變成了軍火商的提款機這是我對於第七款一個很嚴重的我覺得有很大的問題的地方你雖然講得很好聽但是呢你又沒有講要怎麼合作的方式甚至智慧財產權留在誰那裡怎麼在哪裡生產 產值的門檻什麼都沒有這是我一個很大的問題"},{"start":852.797,"end":872.346,"text":"還有我跟你講因為我不知道說這次這麼大軍公安是不是美國威脅加徵關稅如果是就勇敢說出來告訴國人說我們不得不吞下否則這真的就很像是台灣版的馬關條約這就是這樣不好意思再給我一點點時間抱歉"},{"start":873.345,"end":893.283,"text":"我跟你講台灣我們所有人民絕對支持國防我們中華民國絕對支持國防但是反對當凱子更不想變成詐欺案的被害人我想我們支持的就是這個點還有拜託不要把行政院長當傀儡連立法委員都知道的事情就行政院長竟然不知道其實這個還蠻離譜的還有一個"},{"start":896.585,"end":915.547,"text":"還有一個會發生債留子孫的問題因為你們這一次呢第五條特別條例你們第五條講的是說這個是可以規避公共債務法嘛對不對你這規避公共債務法等於我們是把未來這八年我們分裂在未來這八年裡面你會排擠掉原本國家的"},{"start":916.567,"end":940.811,"text":"的預算啊所以呢我們本來未來8年可以用在健保長照教育基礎公共建設我們全部都先借來花掉了那我想請問一下第一個部長這1兆2500億錢從哪裡來你要加稅還是要砍健保還是要砍長照還是要砍教育第二個錢要怎麼還請問你的常在計劃是什麼利息負擔多少還有"},{"start":941.411,"end":956.724,"text":"是不是還要繼續每年舉債有一些側翼啊很無腦在那邊說啊國防預算增加不會排擠社福因為兩個編列單位不一樣問題是錢就這麼大錢不會天上掉下來怎麼可能不排擠說不排擠都騙人請問您常債計畫怎麼做錢從哪裡來一定借來的嘛特別預算你要去借錢不是我們現有的預算請問常債計畫在哪裡"},{"start":970.756,"end":978.631,"text":"現在是讓我回答了嗎是 請說因為你剛剛講了一大串我想用了很多的形容詞"},{"start":981.496,"end":1002.971,"text":"長債計畫在哪裡用了很多形容詞我想我特別幾個點跟您報告一下可能您有所誤解我的問題是長債計畫在哪裡時間的關係我簡要回答一下可以嗎您已經講了十幾秒還沒有講到我想第一個您說這個一兆兩千五百億全部都是軍購這不是事實"},{"start":1003.792,"end":1008.635,"text":"沒有問題沒有問題但是是特別預算嘛不是您剛剛講說全部是軍購這不是事實因為因為您要讓我您講了那麼久你要來兜圈子齁我沒有要來跟您兜圈子那我先回答您最後一個問題我先回答您最後一個問題可以嗎我先回答您最後一個問題可以嗎我先回答您最後一個問題可以嗎"},{"start":1030.609,"end":1048.661,"text":"有關特別條例的經費上限依照2500億分8年那來源為已用以前年度稅期剩餘或舉債方式舉借債務方式來辦理施行期間會依財政紀律法來管控舉債的規模我們也會依行政院的指導來嚴守財政紀律我還是聽不到這是官話一切依照規定一切依照以前的做法"},{"start":1055.325,"end":1059.528,"text":"都是官話我也沒有話講而且您對一照2500億的一個是條例等到後面要編預算每一筆預算還要再送大院來主筆的來審議剛剛那樣的講法顯然是誤解了條例的意義跟後面編的預算今天就是還沒有討論到這邊所以我才會拿出來問嘛如果今天立法院都已經審了都過了那還有什麼好問的還有最後講一個啦"},{"start":1083.982,"end":1097.595,"text":"您今天買了一大堆武器對於軍人的薪水斤斤計較武器買了滿滿的沒有人用我不知道理由是什麼第二個你也不是買到最新式的武器比如說F16V是4.5代"},{"start":1100.063,"end":1125.245,"text":"你買的是舊的武器那難道你要把台灣當博物館嗎因為沒有人操作沒有人願意喜歡當兵這次總援合直接少了9000人那等於是少了兩個旅遊戰鬥部隊其實這都是我們憂心的我不是找國防部麻煩我想您對總援合少掉多少可能沒有看我們的報告我們的縣議叫去年成長了2000多人我想您講的很多都不是事實好不好那有必要的話再用書面補充"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}