{"error":false,"id":["166034"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166034,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166034","日期":"2025-12-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-35-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-01T11:45:48+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-01T12:00:38+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:50","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8163f3efc01af7ec29c84f4d62c5a096d3b95029a3bab617e9c371ce254979628ecc4a3d608f005ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳俊宇","委員發言時間":"11:45:48 - 12:00:38","會議時間":"2025-12-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「軍人薪資待遇結構現行作法檢討及未來調整規劃」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.7522187500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.3597187500000003,"end":3.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.14346875,"end":10.695968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.235968750000001,"end":13.379093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.88534375,"end":24.989093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.63034375,"end":62.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.77221875,"end":79.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.45721875000001,"end":85.30034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.67159375,"end":123.26909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.53909375,"end":128.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.98971875,"end":129.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.83346875,"end":130.03596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.03596875,"end":130.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.57596875000002,"end":132.97221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.36034375,"end":144.85221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.44284375,"end":151.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.19284375,"end":157.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.48721875,"end":166.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.92471875,"end":167.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.88659375,"end":167.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.97096875,"end":168.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.03846875000002,"end":169.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.15221875,"end":169.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.48971875,"end":186.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.90471875,"end":199.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.01659375000003,"end":219.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.38471875000002,"end":222.54471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.73034375,"end":223.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.89471875,"end":230.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.03284375,"end":243.36846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.46971875000003,"end":246.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.59159375000002,"end":255.77159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.61221875,"end":250.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.14284375,"end":256.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.17659375,"end":263.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.42846875000004,"end":265.20471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.33971875000003,"end":268.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.62596875,"end":270.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.53721875,"end":292.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.60971875,"end":297.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.08159375,"end":301.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.16096875,"end":315.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.47534375000004,"end":329.63346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.81471875,"end":333.05909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.49784375,"end":343.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.75784375,"end":352.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.26721875000004,"end":351.58784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.66784375000003,"end":375.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.39409375,"end":386.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.46846875,"end":386.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.34596875,"end":394.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.39971875000003,"end":394.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.26034375,"end":395.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.27721875000003,"end":402.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.51659375,"end":420.64034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.94409375000004,"end":449.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.86784375,"end":449.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.71159375,"end":450.72846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.72846875000005,"end":475.04534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.14659375,"end":491.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.16909375000006,"end":500.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.10034375000004,"end":501.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":502.16346875000005,"end":505.35284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.62284375,"end":511.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.96784375000004,"end":512.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.96346875,"end":527.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.2690937500001,"end":564.0947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.61346875,"end":575.5359687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.89034375,"end":578.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.1640937500001,"end":617.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":618.48284375,"end":618.9384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":620.27159375,"end":627.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":627.61221875,"end":628.32096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":628.9284687500001,"end":644.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.5672187499999,"end":654.6797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":654.8315937500001,"end":659.1853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.6240937500002,"end":660.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.92346875,"end":665.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.01159375,"end":664.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":666.13784375,"end":670.7109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.08221875,"end":673.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.86659375,"end":674.4740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.9084687500001,"end":684.3459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":684.7847187500001,"end":686.7422187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":687.1640937500001,"end":690.8259687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.28159375,"end":705.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.2622187500001,"end":716.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.30721875,"end":751.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":752.06534375,"end":754.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":754.6472187500001,"end":767.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.9740937500001,"end":769.2609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":769.8515937500001,"end":777.36096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":778.08659375,"end":783.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":783.0478437500001,"end":798.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":783.1997187500001,"end":783.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":799.7709687500001,"end":803.0109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":804.0065937500001,"end":807.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":807.4153437500001,"end":818.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":819.5147187500002,"end":820.7634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.80971875,"end":830.1965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":830.26409375,"end":837.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":837.9253437500001,"end":845.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":846.44721875,"end":875.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.97846875,"end":887.1328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":887.2847187500001,"end":891.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":887.35221875,"end":887.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.46159375,"end":889.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":891.38534375,"end":891.97596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.429,"end":24.271,"text":"謝謝召委 我們有請顧部長請顧部長部長午安 辛苦了是 陳偉好 部長我想先就最近我們這個台海周邊的軍事活動相關的事實那個事件來和部長您做討論那近期這個外媒報導"},{"start":25.892,"end":49.066,"text":"紐西蘭海軍最大的軍艦在11月5號航行通過我們台灣海峽那這也是從9月以來再次有紐西蘭的海軍通過這個台海而在這個航行的這個過程當中據稱中國的這個艦艇和飛機持續在做監控那甚至有這個中國的戰機來進行所謂的這個模擬攻擊"},{"start":50.306,"end":79.226,"text":"我們中關過去這幾年不管是歐洲還是印太地區的友好國家派遣軍艦在我們台灣海峽執行所謂的航行自由的活動當然都是依照國際法所保障的航行自由權利不過當今天有美國以外的國家派遣軍艦通過台灣海峽的時候通常共軍都會派出海空軍來應對尤其在今年以來"},{"start":79.906,"end":80.03,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":80.509,"end":109.416,"text":"共軍所採取的反應似乎有更加強烈的跡象比如從2月以來包括日本、加拿大、澳洲還有英國的軍艦通過台海共軍除了增加附近空域的軍事活動外還會實施聯合戰備警巡除了展現反制的手段以外也是對台海管轄權的法律戰我想就此來請教部長"},{"start":110.777,"end":128.677,"text":"從這次紐西蘭海軍的這個案例來看是否代表中國對於這個歐洲或是印太國家派軍艦通過台灣海峽的這個應對措施有升級的這個趨勢那這其中有沒有擦槍走火的風險我方應該如何來因應"},{"start":130.733,"end":156.711,"text":"跟委員報告第一個就是說我們支持各國來經過台灣海峽從事自由航行這樣子的一個自由航行權有關遭到中國的跟監等等的這些挑釁的行為目前觀察來看還不具有擦槍走火的風險"},{"start":158.547,"end":178.054,"text":"我們國安部會利用聯合勤政的手段都有在全程的來掌握跟應處一切都還在我們掌握之中近期還有台海有事說的論調中國和日本之間的關係略顯緊繃在上個月底"},{"start":181.135,"end":209.656,"text":"日本防衛大臣小泉晉次郎也到這個西南諸島進行視察那之後日本防衛省就公布11月24日齁有中國的無人機穿越台灣和這個與那國島之間的空域那日方也派出戰鬥機緊急起飛前往應對那我想請教部長在這一次的事件當中我們國防部是否也掌握這一架無人機的來源和意圖而我方的應處作為是什麼"},{"start":210.376,"end":210.657,"text":"中國的無人機"},{"start":224.379,"end":245.866,"text":"這個日本這邊公布的大概就是11月24日那他出海之後是沿著我們的航空識別區跟日本的航空識別區就恢復這個飛到西太平洋從事一個一個一個長航的一個一個任務了那日本的飛機一般例行性的他都會在就這一個"},{"start":246.906,"end":267.321,"text":"像您提到宇納國島這個空域 他會來起飛警戒應出那我們都有全程的掌握部長 我們掌握這架無人機會是空軍的無人機還是其他的無人機系統它是一個KVB808的無人機"},{"start":271.206,"end":277.651,"text":"與那國島和台灣距離只有110公里日本自衛隊從2016年進駐了160人的沿岸監視隊後來也進駐了電戰部隊近日小泉防衛大臣也證實了自衛隊已經規劃在這裡要部署034的防空飛彈"},{"start":292.662,"end":320.778,"text":"那外媒也報導美軍要在這裡建立這個前進加油點使得這個第一島鏈成型的更嚴密的這個防衛整個這個串聯我想請教部長日本和美國在包含與那國島的這個西南諸島加強相關的軍事部署跟整備的相關規劃當中我們是否有角色在其中扮演那尤其未來若是其他的這個防空飛彈部署"},{"start":322.359,"end":324.18,"text":"與我方的防禦範圍有所重疊對於我們台灣支盾的規劃會不會有什麼樣的影響"},{"start":331.554,"end":360.131,"text":"我想這樣就是說美國跟日本會加強在日本的西南諸島的軍事部署那你這邊有提到這個與那國島的這個防空飛彈的部署這個都是為因應中國的基建頻繁的洗腦突穿第一島鏈的這樣的威脅所以他跟我們要致力於以這個嚇阻或者以實力來維持區域和平穩定的這個目標是一致的"},{"start":360.811,"end":386.312,"text":"那至於我們的要建構的台灣之盾是以我們現有的防空系統作為一個基礎那我們強調整個偵測一直到這個決策還有打擊整個系統來做整合然後來遂行一個多層次跟高效率的一個攔截那我想我們是為了加強強化我們的自我防衛能力而設而來建制"},{"start":387.784,"end":394.216,"text":"部長 我剛剛問的就是在這個第一島鏈形成的過程裡面我們台灣有沒有角色的扮演"},{"start":395.325,"end":420.507,"text":"我想戰略上來看的話美國跟日本都要強化他們的一個這個軍事的威懾所以在西南諸島所做的軍事部署也是基於這樣的道理那所以協同嚇阻我想是大家共同的一個理念那台灣在第一島鏈的前緣那更要強化自我防衛的能力這個是必然的"},{"start":421.047,"end":449.307,"text":"也就是說我們之所以要提出這樣的特別預算還有我們要提高我們的國防預算在GDP的佔比都是基於我們的防衛作戰的需求而不是單純的只是說為增加而增加這個都是基於需求而來那我想強化我們的防衛能力就能夠強化嚇阻那日本跟美國也一起加入從事這樣的協同嚇阻那就能夠維護區域的和平穩定也會治台海的和平穩定的現狀"},{"start":450.759,"end":472.634,"text":"好 那由於我們台灣跟日本之間並沒有所謂的這個制度性的同盟關係那在軍事上也缺乏共同演訓的機會遇到緊急狀況的時候是否能夠有順暢的一個溝通或是協作的機制來整合區域內盟友的一個資源那我想還是就這個部分請教部長"},{"start":473.274,"end":500.066,"text":"台灣和與那國島的距離相當的近那我們是否應該和日方來建立一個常態性對話或是協調的一個這個良善的機制來因應中國的這個揮帶侵擾或是有任何的緊急處理的方式我們國防部已經有掌握當中我們跟有盟國家都會建立一個情報交流跟情質交換的機制那麼"},{"start":502.25,"end":530.9,"text":"也共同來掌握台海周邊以及這個執行任何突發狀況的一個處置作為我想這個我們平時就就已經在建制 就有建制好 那日本和台灣這個長期的友好關係未來我相信在這個西南諸島強化各式的這個軍事整備對於台海的和平穩定會帶來正面的效應那也持續請我們國防部能夠對於這個部分的這個方面來加強"},{"start":531.88,"end":549.074,"text":"那另外我想就另外一個議題想請教部長在今年10月底監察院公布了一份調查報告當中提到在國防二法實施之後政府希望能夠引進一定比例的這個文職人員來參與國防事務以提升我們國防部決策的品質並且能夠達成"},{"start":551.556,"end":563.909,"text":"文人領軍的一個政策目標又提到在這個民主先進的國家任用國防文官的比例都超過七成以上我國的這個標準相較其他國家已經明顯的偏低"},{"start":565.646,"end":583.044,"text":"造成我們文官政策難以落實那在報告當中也提出幾項造成國防部文職缺額率偏高的一個癥結點包括這個升遷管道有限薪資誘因不足另外還有一個是文官心態的一個保守等等"},{"start":583.945,"end":608.701,"text":"而且監委認為在國防部對於三分之一的這個文職條款規定採取了不同的計算方式可能有意來掩飾長期以來任用這個文職未達法定比例的一個情形更讓我們這個條文形同虛設所以要求國防部進行檢討那在此我想對於這個監委所提出的這些質疑我想請教部長"},{"start":609.181,"end":626.623,"text":"我們文職人員任用的這個比例究竟是多少那應該怎麼樣來落實三分之一的這個文職條款的規定又有關這個文職人員不足的這個部分"},{"start":629.008,"end":644.098,"text":"光部現在已經全面性的在檢討有關這些文職人員在我們國軍內部特別是光部本部以及光部本部以下的這個一屬是"},{"start":645.659,"end":672.942,"text":"一署四局一署四局的這些部分我想我們會來一個想家的檢討那確實國安部的這個文職人員他們進來也要經過一些安全查核然後另外他也要對部裡面的組織文化要能夠適應才能夠長留久用這些但是這些都"},{"start":675.967,"end":704.267,"text":"不能夠說我們就因此就不需要來進行檢討所以我想我們要如何讓這些所有的應該願意來到國防部服務的這些文職人員能夠能夠理解國防部的整個的對他這個整個人生涯規劃的一個一個一個保障還有我想還有他的可能的一個"},{"start":707.355,"end":722.809,"text":"就是說他對整個整個他的專業的一個要求等等的我覺得這個部分我們會做一個全面性的一個檢討好那最後一個問題我想在上週五我們也看到總統公布了新任這個軍政副部長人選是我們"},{"start":723.61,"end":751.265,"text":"徐思簡博士來擔任那我們也知道徐副部長是學者出身那多年來在外交和國安的領域深耕也多次參與台美之間的重要這個對話會議那顧部長您在先前擔任國安會秘書長的時候他也和您配合多年我想請教部長那對於徐副部長來到國防部有什麼期待那希望能夠借重他的長才來推進哪些政策那有沒有可能會主責對於"},{"start":753.706,"end":767.276,"text":"這個對美的軍購另外您也身為這個文人部長對於文人領軍的這項政策考量到的政策目標和實施的實際的這個情形認為有什麼優缺點又該如何來做檢討"},{"start":770.315,"end":798.04,"text":"簡要的回答三點第一點就是說軍政副部長即使是這個前任的這個伯副部長其實他也是以文職任用的只是說他們出身的背景可能會說伯副部長是過去是軍職出身的那現在的徐副部長是這個文職出身但我要講的第二點就是說"},{"start":799.867,"end":820.473,"text":"徐司檢副部長事實上在國安會他的歷練很多部分都在國防的相關事務上面因為國安就是包括兩岸外交國防那其中國防是佔了非常大的一部分所以您剛也提到在台北的軍事交流的部分很多時候都是由"},{"start":822.234,"end":845.295,"text":"當時的徐副秘書長或者現在後來的徐諮詢委員然後現在要再擔任副部長他由他率隊去參與這樣子的一個台美的軍事交流所以事實上是他對國防的事務是很閒熟的第三點我要說明的就是說我想我們用不管他的是"},{"start":846.656,"end":875.726,"text":"過去有沒有擔任軍職或者是他在國安會有相關的國防事務的歷練我們都希望他是一個我們都依賴他的專業專長那我們會希望他能夠深入參與各項的國防改革計畫然後對國防事務我相信他現在在有一定的深刻的掌握情況之下上任之後一定會持續發揮他這個國際事業跟戰略的一個長才來協助我們各項這個落實各項國防施政的措施"},{"start":876.246,"end":890.351,"text":"好 謝謝部長那因為法規上有納入很多優秀文職參與國防事務的期待那我們也期待我們國防部能夠朝這個目標積極來研議對 我們會來努力好 以上謝謝部長好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}