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陳景林人事處處長 李世儀政工處公使 韓建豪組建處處長 李佩華資訊及電務處處長 林啟文公眾外交協調會執行長 蕭光偉"},{"start":2017.553,"end":2043.493,"text":"國際事務辦公室執行長陳剛毅非政府組織國際事務會執行長江振偉台灣日本關係協會秘書長范正國台灣美國事務委員會秘書長邱高偉外交及國際事務學院副院長陳文宜"},{"start":2046.33,"end":2069.79,"text":"領事事務局代理局長陳尚友財團法人國際合作發展基金會秘書長黃玉玲財團法人台灣民主基金會副執行長盧業忠財團法人太平經濟合作理事會中華民國委員秘書長許俊斌"},{"start":2077.238,"end":2100.247,"text":"補充介紹我們陳俊宇委員羅美玲委員好確認議事錄請問在場委員對於上次的會議議事錄有無疑落錯誤或需要更正之處好那議事錄確定"},{"start":2104.073,"end":2107.722,"text":"本會議邀請外交部林曉龍部長業務報告概況必備諮詢請林部長上台報告"},{"start":2121.263,"end":2138.099,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 大家早安很榮幸再次獲邀前來進行外交業務報告非常感謝大院和各位委員對外交工作的支持書面報告請參閱 以下就重點說明 敬請指教"},{"start":2139.417,"end":2152.426,"text":"在過去337天以來總和外交已累積不少成果與具體的進展特別是總統繁榮南島智慧永續之旅圓滿成功造訪"},{"start":2154.056,"end":2181.151,"text":"太平洋三友邦並順利過境美國夏威夷和關島成果豐碩本人也先後率團訪問我八個友邦和美國等12個友好國家深化同盟關係和強化經貿連結在這一段期間儘管中國對我打壓矮化恫嚇變本加厲但是國際友我挺台力道屢創新高"},{"start":2182.95,"end":2204.999,"text":"美日歐等民主夥伴國家很多也以實際行動捍衛台海自由航行權也持續在國際場域重申維持台海和平穩定的重要性反制中國扭曲聯大第二七五八號決議以及支持台灣有意義的參與國際組織那我們也積極的推動龍幫八大旗艦計畫"},{"start":2211.735,"end":2227.292,"text":"不僅固邦更朝榮邦的目標來邁進展望未來我們將繼續全力推動總和外交各項工作實現賴總統的價值外交理念和經濟日不落國願景今年以來國際政經情勢更加詭譎多變"},{"start":2228.593,"end":2246.87,"text":"包括川普總統重掌白宮等發展導致全球地緣政治經貿格局和國際秩序都面臨劇烈變動和重新洗牌目前還在重新形塑之中此外當前許多還有涉及的美中博弈"},{"start":2248.089,"end":2265.136,"text":"俄乌战争等地缘政治严峻挑战而全球经贸环境也在快速变化及重构中充满变数以及不确定性甚至冲突加剧我们会继续以推动总和外交农帮计划以及建构"},{"start":2266.28,"end":2289.645,"text":"全球民主價值鏈印太第一島鏈和飛鵬供應鏈的台灣三鏈戰略來因應當前全球的變局另一方面我們也要協助國內業者立足台灣佈局全球我們更要進一步連結世界尤其對接美國的民主夥伴我們非常感謝美國政府"},{"start":2290.525,"end":2311.835,"text":"對台灣的支持而面對川普政府各項新政以及關稅的新局我們將持續秉持互惠雙贏的精神和美國政府保持密切溝通和協商以創造雙贏外交部也會全力落實總統提出的五大國安策略及17項因應策略"},{"start":2312.515,"end":2335.063,"text":"透過和友盟合作向世界宣示我們反對中國併吞也將反制中國消滅台灣矮化台灣主權的野心和作為自上個會期以來我們推動總和外交的主要重點如下第一從故邦到龍邦雙贏共榮除了賴總統成功出訪太平洋三個友邦"},{"start":2337.785,"end":2359.712,"text":"會晤馬紹爾群島土華路以及帛琉等友邦元首我友邦元首政要高層也樂意來訪在國際上為我直言各項合作項目也體現護龍的精神此外我們也會落實賴總統邀請友邦青年來台圓夢的宣誓規劃今年就會有4個友邦青年團共約50人以及約25個"},{"start":2362.13,"end":2370.32,"text":"提案來台圓夢的方案同時也將在兩年內達成倍增本部台灣獎學金入許名額的目標"},{"start":2371.564,"end":2392.753,"text":"第二台美夥伴關係穩健深化美國行政部門持續重視對台安全承諾美國國會也推動高度友台的法案面對川普新政台美持續拓展合作契機台積電在上個月宣布對美國再投資一千億美元賴總統也提出全球半導體民主供應鏈"},{"start":2394.963,"end":2409.069,"text":"全球半導體民主供應夥伴倡議凸顯台美高科技產業密切的合作此外賴總統上任後已經有五位美國州長先後率團訪美以實際行動支持雙邊合作"},{"start":2410.45,"end":2436.438,"text":"有助於進一步提升台美經貿往來及實質的商機第三台日關係密切友好日本政府持續重申維持台海和平穩定的重要性台日在經貿漁業等實質領域合作關係穩健日本國會參眾議員陸續來訪互動密切友好故前首相安倍晉三夫人安倍召會"},{"start":2437.543,"end":2452.173,"text":"也於今年2月出席哈利法克斯論壇台北年會再再彰顯台日的友好第四 台歐關係持續深化歐盟對外事務部英國 德國 瑞典以及七大工業國集團就是G7"},{"start":2453.434,"end":2478.715,"text":"透過公開方式或聯合聲明對中國在台海周邊進行軍演表達嚴正關切歐洲議會也高票通過友台的決議再度關切中國升高台海緊張情勢支持持續深化台歐多面向合作與交流各國的政要若以訪台展現台歐交流穩定深化挺台密度與聲量持續提升第五 善用台灣經濟優勢實現經濟外交"},{"start":2481.437,"end":2506.34,"text":"本部協助推動行政院經濟外交工作小組並設有三個專案小組全面拓展我與美國等夥伴國家的經濟外交合作針對龍幫八大旗艦計畫先鋒人才培育專案以及資安等議題整合跨部會的資源強化資訊交流及協作此外本部也已經和環境部文化部"},{"start":2507.18,"end":2525.425,"text":"衛福部、農業部、教育部等部會攜手,透過成立跨部會工作諮詢小組、籌組、公衛醫療臺灣隊、智慧新農業顧問團等機制,加強協調政府及整合公司部門支持員,以推動農幫計畫。6.繼續強化與新南向國家關係,推動新南向2.0。"},{"start":2530.686,"end":2548.506,"text":"我們推動以人為本的新南向2.0並提倡數位新南向以數位的實力、軟實力作為與世界及新南向國家的橋樑及樞紐將我國與新南向國家的雙邊關係提升到新的高度強化印太地區民主國家的經濟韌性"},{"start":2549.887,"end":2564.815,"text":"本部3月和台灣亞洲交流基金會合辦第八屆玉山論壇展現台灣在國際情勢下的重新定位強調我們有意願也有能力與西南向印太及全世界的國家合作藉由提供技術與經驗"},{"start":2566.796,"end":2586.884,"text":"與民主國家持續打造乾淨網路與非紅供應鏈並善用當地的資本、人才與技術推動產業的台灣PlusN的模式台灣加N的模式打造台灣與區域以及世界夥伴合作的行動方案第七 累積國際參與動能國際間支持及認同台灣國際參與的力道穩定攀升"},{"start":2593.087,"end":2603.977,"text":"如今年2月世界衛生組織執行委員會10個會員國友邦美日英法德澳以色列以及歐盟等代表發言挺台我們也持續透過亞太經濟合作"},{"start":2606.889,"end":2630.981,"text":"APEC展現台灣專業務實有貢獻的影響力第八積極向國際社會發聲我們持續以多元方式向國際發聲配合APEC命輪聯會聯合國氣候變化綱要公約第29屆第一方大會等國際場域以及重要政策主題及文化軟實力等主軸增加台灣的正面曝光加強國際文宣"},{"start":2631.741,"end":2657.968,"text":"第九 多元推進外交主流化我們持續在原住民、科技、治安、文化、人權、NGO等不同領域推動外交主流化並加強結合公司部門的能量打造台灣成為印太NGO中心也延續和文化部合作參與巴黎文化奧運的成功經驗規劃本年日本大阪2025世界博覽會"},{"start":2659.537,"end":2684.768,"text":"推動台灣歐洲文化年擴大宣揚台灣軟實力及優質國際形象第十積極提升為民服務效能和便民的措施這包括調整相關探親簽證的停留期限與加拿大育空特區簽署免試護照互換駕照的協議令今年1月1日起正式實施的有條件"},{"start":2686.108,"end":2700.787,"text":"線上的身換護照措施檢證辨明也讓人民有感本部將繼續全力穩健推動總和外交各項工作也期盼大院各位委員繼續給予支持和指教以上報告敬請視教 謝謝"},{"start":2709.242,"end":2725.268,"text":"現在開始詢答本會委員6加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分發言登記截止如有臨時提案請以10點30分前提出11點左右處理那現在請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請林佳龍部長"},{"start":2746.563,"end":2763.568,"text":"部長早 部長在上個禮拜呢這個國民黨的青年軍這個成員叫宋建良的他因為在罷免李昆城委員李昆城委員的這個連署案因為涉嫌偽造文書然後遭到新北地檢署的這個約談那在移送賦訊的時候呢他帶著這個有納稅符號的這個備章還有手持希特勒的這個著作然後比出這個納稅的這個敬意的手而手勢引起這個社會的這個嘩然"},{"start":2773.851,"end":2779.177,"text":"那當然這個德國在台協會呢認為這個行為是非常的無恥喔那以色列駐台代表處也表達了這個嚴重的強烈的這個譴責那這件事情呢其實呢不單單是對我國的國際形象造成很嚴重的這個衝擊那也影響到我們跟德國還有以色列等國的這個外交的這個邦誼喔"},{"start":2793.112,"end":2799.694,"text":"那其實我們除了這次的事件之外呢其實像過去其實國內陸續也發生過極其類似就是誤踩國際紅線的這個行為例如前幾年就有某一間這個高中在校慶的時候表演這個就是穿著表演的時候穿著這個納粹的這個服飾然後模仿這個德軍輕衛隊呢受教業的這個場景那像在2011年的時候其實也有"},{"start":2822.799,"end":2838.861,"text":"學生在參加國防部的戰鬥營的時候也是身穿納粹的軍服等等所以為了避免類似的情形發生我們外交部對這個部分我們要如何對這些年輕的孩子做一個再教育"},{"start":2839.201,"end":2841.463,"text":"因為當然我們知道教育部在一些歷史課本有提到關於納粹的過去對人類歷史的一些柔令跟一些迫害可是好像還是有些國內的孩子似乎不太了解他們"},{"start":2856.094,"end":2862.457,"text":"實際上呢對納粹行為不是那麼的清楚像外交部每次遇到這種狀況的時候都必須要跟外館這個德國或是納粹或是跟國際來做道歉甚至說呼籲國人該怎麼做該要尊重他國的這個文化的這個歷史可是單單呼籲本席覺得應該是不足的應該是不足的我們如何要對這些孩子們"},{"start":2881.627,"end":2906.323,"text":"予以這個教育 這部分我們不能一再的道歉跟呼籲而已啊 部長是 委員我同意這個對於這個這件事件 外交部在第一時間就表達嚴正的譴責我們用這麼重 就是嚴正的譴責也是要就是有個機會教育要讓國人也跟國際都了解我們在對於這一個"},{"start":2908.945,"end":2922.746,"text":"用納稅的符號跟旗幟那麼濫用我們自由法治社會的一個言論的自由受到憲法的保障但是這一些是這個"},{"start":2924.969,"end":2943.061,"text":"不只是說負面的意義這種對於歷史的無知可能會持續造成傷害所以我們必須要利用這個事件嚴正的譴責另外一方面也是透過我們跟包括很多的"},{"start":2944.762,"end":2966.139,"text":"活動包括像這個有關於這個納稅大屠殺這樣的一個反思包括舉辦活動包括像HoverCost這些讓更多人的了解除了學校教育要加強以外我們在社會各個層面也必須對於使用這個納稅的這種過去殘害人類的"},{"start":2970.402,"end":2981.14,"text":"符號跟旗幟啊其實是表達絕不容忍也不會就是說讓這樣的事情在台灣就是發展"},{"start":2983.155,"end":3007.861,"text":"對 因為我剛剛有提到了 每次發生這個事情外交部就必須要站出來 像剛剛部長所提到了就譴責啊 那不然就辦一些活動其實我們也必須要讓國人知道 就像部長剛才所講的其實言論自由 其實它是有界限的那我們有盤點過幾個國家 尤其像德國德國它是明文禁止使用 就是說"},{"start":3008.701,"end":3016.444,"text":"有納粹標誌的這些任何的這個物品那再來也禁止穿著這納粹的軍服使用納粹敬禮宣揚納粹主義德國是還是明文禁止不然的話違反者他將以煽動種族仇恨的這個罪名來起訴那法國的話如果你出犯了以上的這些行為的話其實他是有罰款的那奧地利呢甚至呢他是處於一年以上十年以下有期徒刑情節嚴重的等於處於二十年的有期徒刑"},{"start":3036.013,"end":3061.17,"text":"那澳洲也是一樣他2025年透過的反仇恨犯罪法他最高是可處十二徒刑那泰國曾經也是發現像亞洲的泰國像之前有一個女子團體呢她在彩排的時候穿著納粹的這個萬字圖案的這個衣服那之後呢她還必須要向這個以色列大使來道歉而且共同舉辦教育活動像這個部分的話在台灣可能真的就比較少了"},{"start":3062.278,"end":3083.915,"text":"當這些人他在就像部長所說的也許是無知也許是無知那可是我們要讓他們如何了解像國外的話他其實是一個禁忌耶可是台灣的話不能只有外交部一代的道歉譴責而已那國人也必須要有所教育讓他們知道說其實你已經踩了國際的這個紅線"},{"start":3085.256,"end":3093.986,"text":"所以這部分的話我在想外交部跟教育部是不是應該共同我們是不是來舉辦一些教育活動讓這些年輕的孩子知道說其實你已經抵觸了這個國際的這個紅線了這是本期的這個建議啦"},{"start":3100.253,"end":3128.555,"text":"OK好那再來呢我想請教一下就是說在上個月底的時候緬甸呢發生了規模7.7的這個強烈地震我們看到呢有很多的這個官方跟民間的這個單位他有發起了對緬甸地震災區的這個震災的捐款活動那當然要在捐款之前必須要跟這個衛福部社會救助司這邊來申請合法的這個勸募的這個活動我先想請教一下像這些善款到國外去我們有哪個"},{"start":3129.455,"end":3157.085,"text":"單位在監督嗎 請問部長當然如果因為要勸募必須向衛福部登記那有主管機關的監督那如果涉外因為我們外管尤其是如果以我們政府發起的當然我們會嚴格的來落實這些監督那有些民間他們的不管是善款或善刑透過非政府組織或其他的方式"},{"start":3158.025,"end":3179.016,"text":"那他們可能是以實際的行動表達對於這些災害他們的關心跟援助那這個部分我們會盡量的來去宣導一方面協助同時讓他們了解因為這都涉及到勸募的行為必須依法來辦理"},{"start":3180.117,"end":3207.816,"text":"為什麼本席會這麼問?像之前我們那個土耳其發生這個大陣的時候其實有很多這個善款流到這個台灣中心去嘛結果呢後來這個善款到底是如何使用的後來去向不明所以這一次這個緬甸的這個雖然發生了大陣可是有很多民眾其實有在擔心他捐出去的錢到底有沒有用在重建那會不會說不知情之下"},{"start":3208.817,"end":3230.292,"text":"甚至會流入軍政府手中作為一級的資金等等都有這些聲音出來所以這次緬甸的這個大政我們發現就是說民眾很有疑慮因為大家都很擔心說之前土耳其大政的時候國人有透過這個募資平台來募款那這台灣中心到後來錢到哪裡去了完全不知道"},{"start":3231.252,"end":3245.913,"text":"國人很擔心這件事情會發生所以我剛才就在提到就是說那部長有提到了如果是政府這邊來辦理的募款也許你們有所可以監督可是民間呢民間的捐款到國外去我們發現好像沒有監督單位耶是"},{"start":3246.794,"end":3260.75,"text":"國共委員報告其實在第一時間除了跟緬甸方面聯繫希望派遣救災人員過去那因為也涉及到他們沒有接受嘛那我們就支持民間包括很多的慈善基金會他們進入"},{"start":3263.392,"end":3288.142,"text":"他們比較有經驗以外其實很多台商這個台商的協會或聯誼會他們也有在地的人脈所以我們就用間接的方式來協助那另外僑委會在第一時間也有跟台商會來聯繫所以這些都是表達我們對於這些就是不管是救災 震災的關懷跟協助那可是呢確實在有一些國家它比較"},{"start":3289.822,"end":3312.372,"text":"就是比較不上軌道尤其是涉及到這些善款的利用我們也記取過去的經驗我們怎麼樣去實質的幫助到需要幫助的人而不是只是給錢因為錢就是會有產生非常執行的問題那在海外有時候啦真的是沒有辦法像國內那麼清楚的去監督到每一筆錢的流向"},{"start":3313.713,"end":3335.249,"text":"如果我們跟NGO或跟台商會的合作他們至少是一個在台灣算是有一定的代表性的社團這個也能夠達到援助的一個目標但是我們政府任何的捐款都必須要接受嚴格的監督這個是要做一些區別的"},{"start":3336.723,"end":3353.443,"text":"部長是這樣子喔因為剛剛部長還是在提這對於這個民間單位的這個募款目前說實在聽起來是我們這個監督單位的系統是還沒有建立起來海外喔真的是因為我們多次其實包括在東南亞發生的很多災難國人真的也是很熱"},{"start":3354.384,"end":3357.406,"text":"這是國人的愛心但是在執行面會有一些落差因為畢竟他那些國家法制比較欠缺會有時候中間人像你在緬甸來講就好幾個政府了所以這次緬甸的捐款國人很有疑慮錢拿去用在哪裡或者是這個都會造成無法去追蹤"},{"start":3377.581,"end":3399.021,"text":"所以避免國人的愛心被有心人所利用我想外交部跟有關單位相關單位應該要來建立一個比較有系統的這個管道如何去監督這筆錢否則國人還是有疑慮畢竟土耳其的事情之前也發生了台灣中心大家都還以為是台灣的政府"},{"start":3399.601,"end":3423.074,"text":"成立的一個 因為它用台灣中心 實際上後來錢跑到哪裡去了所有的建設也都不知道在哪邊所以這個部分的話 我想這部分應該外交部也要來加強跟各個單位來做一個討論這些民間的善款如何有效的被利用好 以上謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝陸美玲委員上台質詢接下來由陳俊宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":3436.22,"end":3464.256,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請林佳龍部長部長早 辛苦了我們台灣護照根據這個最新的2025年的亨利護照指數顯示我們名列全世界第34名是可免簽通行139個旅遊的一個目的地那我想在此"},{"start":3465.116,"end":3492.891,"text":"來就叫我們部長台灣護照排名提升越來越好用那目前我們正在爭取的相關互惠的免簽、自動通關待遇還有相關的這些與其他國家的互惠的方式近期內是否會有增加的機會那可否請教部長是否可以透露有可能是哪些區域或是哪些國家有可能會有好消息"},{"start":3495.014,"end":3514.052,"text":"我們在東南亞也有一些在進行中國家那就是因為免簽也涉及到因為有一些簽證費用的處理那這當然是互惠雙向的一個進行那因為我們也給東南亞有一些國家"},{"start":3515.693,"end":3537.484,"text":"因為基於觀光或其他的這些包括各種的移工進出等等的方便我們也像對方國家也能夠基於對等的原則來辦理另外當然就是說在包括其實因為像主要的民主國家我們大概都有免簽了不管是美日或者是像歐盟"},{"start":3538.624,"end":3561.401,"text":"但是有一些像在不管是中東或者是非洲還有其他地方雖然是往來沒有那麼頻繁不過這個就是一個如果能夠免簽那也會促進雙方面的交流包括商務或觀光所以我們也是跟很多國家在溝通台灣是大家都喜歡來那怎麼樣基於對等"},{"start":3563.843,"end":3579.341,"text":"互惠的原則我們也一一在檢視所以也希望說能夠再不斷的增加免簽的對象國家另外一個就是因為現在很多都是用電子簽或其他的方式或落地簽這也都在我們努力的範圍"},{"start":3582.52,"end":3603.432,"text":"本年度我們外交部的業務費還有美宣費還有旅費被煽動包括外交部領事事務局的預算其中有一條1.2億的部分這筆預算主要是用於購置空白護照那刪減後僅能支應購買185萬本的空白護照"},{"start":3607.694,"end":3633.471,"text":"那如果今年國人申辦護照依然像往年這麼踴躍的話我們推估在這個今年的十月底左右,空白護照安全存量就會吃緊那我想就叫部長就是依目前的這個實際的情況預算執行的情形那我們空白護照與印發的這個作業是否會受到影響那影響的情形我們該如何來因應"},{"start":3634.597,"end":3649.218,"text":"是 各位委員報告確實因為預算的三貨棟尤其在護照的部分我們內部的估計大概到十月可能就沒有辦法再印製所以這個部分我請領務局是不是來更詳細說明一下"},{"start":3651.691,"end":3668.785,"text":"謝謝部長 謝謝委員林務局報告這樣子 因為我們在去年我們預估我們會印280萬本結果我們總共印了286萬本那今年呢 我們現在1到3月應該說到3月底 甚至到上個禮拜我們總共合發了大概69萬本"},{"start":3670.106,"end":3682.996,"text":"那也就是說今年依照我們的預估是可以應該要核發209萬本那依照這樣的一個速度來看的話我們大概短缺是15到20萬本剛剛委員有提到"},{"start":3685.638,"end":3713.411,"text":"那這一部分呢因為我們有所謂的安全存量這有點類似說家裡面都有安全的存款這樣子那這會造成一個卯池飲糧的一個現象就是說我們會把我們的安全存量提前把它用盡用完那這一部分我們領務局已經考慮到了我們會跟我們護照供應商中央印製廠來做一個密切的聯繫或許我們早一點展開這個所謂的招標工作等等來因應以上報告"},{"start":3713.971,"end":3735.607,"text":"安全存量就可以因應十月份以後我們的安全存量大概是一估兩個月那一個月大概是20到25萬本也就是說我們的安全存量是大概四五十萬本那因為到十月底如果用完的話那可能我們到12月就真的一本都不剩了所以我們要提早作業這個部分好"},{"start":3736.388,"end":3757.289,"text":"那我想再就教就是這個依據我們之前的相關領照的一個數據五一勞動節的這個前後會是一個這個換照的一個高峰期那我們領務局的各辦事處是否已經提前做好準備對於各地申辦的這個量能我們是不是已經都準備充足了"},{"start":3761.458,"end":3774.585,"text":"五一勞動節確實因為我們勞工朋友依照勞基法勞動基準法他是放假的但我們公務機關並沒有放假所以這個對我們那個護照的就修建跟合法都是一個非常大的挑戰"},{"start":3775.405,"end":3796.265,"text":"那跟委員報告事實上從每年的3月到5月都是我們護照核發的一個高峰期因為民眾有在暑期出國的一個必要所以5月1號是一個特殊的日子但是對我們來講3到5月都是一個非常高的高峰期那本局好像外交部領事處局跟我們外交部四個辦事處都做好相應的準備"},{"start":3797.026,"end":3823.226,"text":"那我們的同仁現在其實都已經在加班然後假日也必須要來加班因為這個工作負荷相當的重不過外交部所有的同仁都有信心要來應付這樣一個挑戰謝謝好那我想針對這個護照的部分我請外交部能夠持續的來做好相關的準備讓台灣的護照可以在國際上的使用更加的這個便利也可以持續的精進讓這個民眾要換發的過程裡面"},{"start":3827.268,"end":3845.733,"text":"這個申辦的過程能夠更加的便利性那另外我想就叫部長就是對於我們這個友邦的相關問題的一個討論那在這個立陶宛他在這個2021年的時候允許台灣在他的首都設立以台灣為名的一個代表處"},{"start":3847.013,"end":3872.027,"text":"引發中國的不滿對於立陶宛祭出外交與經濟的制裁立陶宛的總理帕魯克在去年底上任之後多次表示希望能夠和中國恢復外交關係近期也傳出與中國恢復外交關係的對話已經在進行當中立陶宛是否可能迫於中國的壓力"},{"start":3873.389,"end":3877.077,"text":"更改台灣的代表出名稱,進一步影響到台灣和立陶宛的雙邊關係"},{"start":3879.644,"end":3900.349,"text":"報告委員 立陶宛政府包括總理他們也都對他表示立陶宛跟中國在諮商是不是在恢復大使館或一些外交的關係他不會以更改臺灣我們的代表處的名稱來迎合"},{"start":3906.95,"end":3926.778,"text":"那這個部分因為也是我想他們政府也是延續的那也有對外表示他們不會再壓力下去做這個更名未來這數年也都會維持就是我們這個所謂的Taiwanese Residential Office這樣的一個住管的名稱"},{"start":3928.389,"end":3944.782,"text":"另外南非的部分,南非政府惡意打壓片面的要求台灣代表處遷離首都並且在3月試圖將我們聯絡代表處降級更改為商務代表處目前我們雙方針對這個部分的協商進度違和"},{"start":3947.384,"end":3966.613,"text":"如果南非的執政政府執意要改變現狀的話,那我們後續會有如何的一個因應的作為而且中國動作頻頻,那我們應該如何來避免這種效益會擴散,進一步影響到導致這個骨牌效應的出現"},{"start":3970.195,"end":3981.668,"text":"確實南非在中國的壓力之下企圖要求我們牽管、更名還有矮化我們駐地的一些權限"},{"start":3989.236,"end":4009.346,"text":"不過經過不斷的交涉在他們原先訂這是三月底嘛必須要簽管但目前不沒有再持續這樣的要求我們也瞭解因為我們也訴求就是說我們要讓南非政府瞭解這個我們"},{"start":4010.426,"end":4037.287,"text":"互設代表處是基於1997年兩國政府達成的這個結略就是協議這裡面白紙黑字都在要任何的更改必須雙面雙方來這個對談所以沒有啟動這個程序就擅自單方面的去更改對台的關係這是違反雙方的這個協議那這個也是南非很多友人他們據以力爭"},{"start":4038.628,"end":4054.452,"text":"就是南非還是一個法治國家,它就不能夠自己違法那當然在這個過程當中,我們怎麼樣能夠說之以理雖然我們這是有法的依據,那我們也是不卑不亢所以就這整件事情來講,這快一年來我們的應處,也讓南非這麼感受到我們的堅持"},{"start":4062.994,"end":4087.81,"text":"我們不會去在壓力下妥協可是呢我們也是很理性的希望跟他來溝通怎麼共同來去應對可能南非面對的壓力那我想這個基於這次的經驗我想對外交同仁來講也是一個很大的激勵我們不是一定就是零和我們就是必須在說之我們有我們的這個"},{"start":4092.173,"end":4111.808,"text":"說裡以外要得到國際的支持所以包括美國包括歐洲很多國家其實包括日本等都是透過他們正式的外交管道有表達對這個史詩的關心所以我想這一件事情啊也讓我們台灣的外交空間不但沒有受到打壓而且得到更多國際的一個支持"},{"start":4116.483,"end":4141.423,"text":"主席再給我一分鐘我想再就教部長最後一個問題就是這個2023年3月的時候洪都拉斯與我國斷交那今年底他們將進行這個大選那傳出有許多位的在野候選人也都希望能夠繼續跟台灣來恢復邦交的關係那針對這個部分我們外交部是不是有掌握到相關的這個情勢是否有可能會與洪都拉斯再復交的可能"},{"start":4142.578,"end":4166.487,"text":"報告委員確實有洪都拉斯的總統參選人有表示如果他們勝選會恢復跟台灣的邦交當然我們這是歡迎不過我想這個因為我們也是密切在關注對於這個尤其是中美洲特別是在美國川普政府尤其是那個國務卿盧比奧他訪問之後的影響"},{"start":4169.288,"end":4186.014,"text":"因為他在瓜地馬拉跟這個阿聯酋總統的記者會裡面公開肯定瓜地馬拉維持跟台灣的邦交國而且也肯定台灣持續的增加對瓜地馬拉的不管是投資或是援助那我們把邦交國的關係做好"},{"start":4186.394,"end":4201.98,"text":"也會讓更多的友邦跟台灣就是包括恢復邦交這裡面一個很重要影響宏都拉斯的就是所謂的他的白蝦這個產業現在是很慘整個是瓦解掉我們也在支持旁邊國家的貝里斯"},{"start":4203.801,"end":4223.11,"text":"已經得到衛福部派船去做很多茶廠檢疫近期內已經都陸續的完成程序我們的農幫計畫也是透過這樣的方式因為台灣的業者也很需要進口大量的白蝦甚至龍蝦所以我們的台灣是有一定的經濟實力我們幫助友邦能夠繁榮而且以跟台灣友邦交國為榮"},{"start":4228.713,"end":4244.433,"text":"這也是榮邦計畫我們現在用經濟外交來讓很多國家比如說我們在南美洲有巴拉圭那把巴拉圭的這個榮邦計畫做好之後周邊國家他想跟我們談的時候就很簡單我說如果你跟台灣建交或恢復邦交我們就比照辦理是"},{"start":4245.313,"end":4265.72,"text":"這個就是我們現在的經濟外交籠幫計畫整個發揮的一個效果我想對台灣來講現在的不管經濟科技的實力我們的各種的台灣發展經驗已經可以很多友邦他們有興趣的已經不是一般的員外比方台灣參觀我們的所謂的智慧城市展"},{"start":4268.021,"end":4288.847,"text":"電腦展 還有半導體展 AI展他們都覺得台灣的包括我們智慧城市的解決方案他們也想要整體的能夠應用在他國家所以這個是我們的國家隊所謂的心驗型聯合艦隊就包括了非常多我們包括像電信的公司 中華電信或者是涉及到一些科技的像工研院 資策會"},{"start":4291.288,"end":4318.288,"text":"那當然外貿協會就是我們標準的我們這個所謂的聯合艦隊裡面的我們的成員這種方式我們也感覺到有亮點可以這個作為示範計畫在巴拉圭的這一個台巴的科技台巴的智慧科技園區即將這個已經就是整地完成在建廠這個都是新的榮邦計畫的模式以上再補充 謝謝"},{"start":4319.289,"end":4332.239,"text":"那我們也期待藉由部長的這個新的外交策略來帶領我們台灣在外交空間能夠尋求新的一個突破謝謝部長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝陳委員質詢好 謝謝下面我們請黃仁委員提出質詢我們請部長"},{"start":4349.155,"end":4350.237,"text":"有請林部長謝謝部長好委員好"},{"start":4358.308,"end":4384.404,"text":"那個關於預算的解凍,我今天講的比較務實一點我想114年的年度的預算,外交部的預算凍結案有幾個案子目前已經送了幾個案子,幾個結凍的來到立法院那現在已經四月下旬了那以往這個時候外交部不會有解凍案"},{"start":4385.424,"end":4412.475,"text":"送來立法院尋求解凍了但今年很特別到目前還是零案是什麼樣的原因有沒有任何朝野立法委員組織外交部送解凍案來立法院我想應該都不會我想部長你來回答這個問題好不好關於解凍的案到現在為什麼目前來講還是零案"},{"start":4414.879,"end":4429.496,"text":"報告委員一方面是當然行政院或主計總署他在會診各部會的這個解凍案那因為這個相關的這個總數怎麼認定這涉及到大院跟這個行政院之間經過我想"},{"start":4432.74,"end":4449.031,"text":"不斷的在諮商這個我們也會配合來辦理那這次比較特別的是要經過立法院院會通過才能夠解凍這個程序跟過去周國委員會就可以完成是又不太一樣所以我想行政院一定有通盤的考量"},{"start":4449.943,"end":4469.411,"text":"我想這個紛紛擾擾現在是已經捆腰四天現在全國人都認為說我們為什麼一直沒有解凍然後呢全國現在行政院沒有錢可以去執行在各縣市裡面或者是各個預算裡面這個就是一個誤導四天"},{"start":4470.791,"end":4489.199,"text":"那有關於預算的解凍原因各有不同解凍條件也難以自分很多只要提交書面報告就可以解凍了但幾乎沒有解凍的難度如果不會真的在等前為什麼沒有提出書面的報告"},{"start":4489.918,"end":4503.21,"text":"是因為解凍報告寫不出來嗎那另外就是執政黨一直抱怨預算遭到預算害得部會無法做事那但是各部會自己不送不送解凍案是不是表示"},{"start":4503.829,"end":4526.523,"text":"其遭解凍案的前確實沒有急迫性那基本是了解行政院或主席總署下令各部會暫時不准提解凍案外交部有沒有收到這個命令我想應該是行政院主委院長下的命令吧那你來說明一下好不好"},{"start":4527.844,"end":4550.179,"text":"而我們外交部針對凍結案都在進行準備當中那因為這次要大院通過才能夠解凍那因為大院對應的就是行政院所以我們外交部也是會配合來辦理那如果說我想一個另外的方法如果委員能夠讓他交回來到"},{"start":4551.159,"end":4568.013,"text":"從大院交回到委員會我想這個事情就更單純了一點我想部長你有難言之處啦我當然知道好不好那因為行政院或組織總署是不是打算用解凍案當作大版面的工具然後故意押案這是不是"},{"start":4569.334,"end":4584.366,"text":"產生了一個堵值所以這個是我要提醒我們這個部長那你盡快送來因為零一個案子都沒有送來那所以這個就是比較有一點特別的一個狀況那另外就是"},{"start":4586.182,"end":4612.596,"text":"為被美國列入的關稅優先的談判談判國那部長本希在4月10號安排外交部和相關部會報告美國開啟這個全球關稅戰的議題當時各部會曾經在曾經在90天內緩衝洗和掛上號的洗頁中但是沒想到之後美國財長列出的第一波談判的名單並沒有台灣"},{"start":4614.097,"end":4629.825,"text":"跟讓本席感到嚴重的是手破條件談判的五個國家中不但沒有我國反而包含我國貿易的重要競爭對手韓國和日本那請問部長"},{"start":4630.945,"end":4654.462,"text":"在外交部是否就此向美國交涉向美國表達不應該無視台灣在全球貿易中的重要性提出台灣印在美國談判優先名單的訴求那部長你認為我們要不要爭取來做一個優先的名單當中你來說明一下"},{"start":4656.158,"end":4680.236,"text":"報告委員 我們已經在優先名單而且同步平行在展開台美的談判所謂外傳我們不在優先名單 這有出路我們跟美國的包括貿易代表署也已經建立了管道就具體的項目已經在諮商"},{"start":4680.896,"end":4687.139,"text":"那因為這個一下子美國要面對這麼多國家怎麼進行包括除了視訊以外實體的談判這個都需要安排包括時間、地點以及這個談判項目的優先順序那任委員報告是我們應該是會診已經很聚焦有這個幾類的這個議題然後哪些項目雙方面我想包括賴總統在"},{"start":4710.268,"end":4721.832,"text":"不管他透過這個錄影的方式或是投稿國際的媒體也展現了我們的所謂台美的這個經貿關係的路徑圖那那個路徑圖的項目很明確比如說有不管是五大項目那這裡面包括關稅的談判以外"},{"start":4733.216,"end":4760.149,"text":"還包括非關稅貿易障礙投資採購或者是出口管制也就是息產地的問題這些都已經有對應啊已經整理出議題清單今天為什麼提出這個五國當中我們並沒有台灣這是一個數據也是一個事實那是列舉啦那應該是我們是在優先名單第一波的名單已經展開了在台美以4月11號先行進行的視訊的會議"},{"start":4762.31,"end":4789.893,"text":"那可能在世信會議中不是貿易的談判這個不要混淆視聽本席特別期待我會應該在優先貿易談判的名單中原因有兩個第一個90天的暫緩時間並不多貿易談判本身也需要時間若無法被放人優先名單很可能遇到戰時期台灣"},{"start":4790.917,"end":4806.656,"text":"還上不了台辦桌所以這個問題我想我們一定要重視因為有關於台灣是一個重要的貿易貿易國家所以這個就是我們請部長要用心"},{"start":4809.318,"end":4832.084,"text":"第三個就是我們南非代表處遭到清除的南非首都那本席去年就一直關心南非住管的處境並且多次質詢相關的狀況雖然在外交部的同仁努力之下我駐南非代表處仍然在"},{"start":4833.22,"end":4847.92,"text":"普勒托利亞正常的運作在南非政府推動我牽掛及降級的立場乃非常堅持向南非提出的協商要求也沒有獲得具體的回應"},{"start":4849.282,"end":4865.5,"text":"表示危機並沒有解除本席整理了事件的始末第一,2023年12月南非國際關係合作部口頭要求我國駐南非代表處遷出首都佛羅托莉亞"},{"start":4867.722,"end":4895.299,"text":"第二,2024的4月南非正式發出結列要求我國駐南非代表處在半年內簽字耶漢尼斯堡第三,2024的11月我國駐南非代表處舉辦的國慶酒會當中南非再一次以電郵寄送結列要求10月30日"},{"start":4896.62,"end":4915.291,"text":"前完成搬遷並威脅若不搬遷將關閉這代表處那2025的1月南非政府再度致函我駐南非代表處要求在3月底以前搬離佛羅多利亞並試圖將代表處降級為更名為貿易辦事處2025的3月南非媒體報導3月底完成台北辦事處的"},{"start":4925.256,"end":4950.447,"text":"簽署這更名2025的3月25號那我國外交部向南非提出協商的要求包含建議實地人員組織以協議簽署方式細節等待南非政府的回應2025年的3月31號南非要求頒獻的最後的期限我駐非駐南非代表處來維持政黨運作但非洲"},{"start":4954.208,"end":4971.502,"text":"這個南非政府對於協商要求的並沒有回應所以請問部長現在已經事業下旬了對於協商的南非政府有回應了沒有那當然根據部長之答詢的內容如果真的被迫簽這個簽管或降級"},{"start":4972.302,"end":5000.012,"text":"外交部能採取的措施包含一 強力的抗議二 要求南非駐台辦事處遷出台北三 嚴審南非人士簽證的申請四 暫停雙邊合作及貿易的反制那我想這個措施對於南非政府能不能產生反制的效用呢那部長你來回答一下"},{"start":5000.731,"end":5023.245,"text":"我們基於對等跟互惠的原則因為外交行為嘛 我們有我們的國家的立場他們也有他們國家的立場所以在這個情形之下 我們都準備好應處的方案可是我們希望還是能夠據理力爭目前到已經是4月21號 他們並沒有強"},{"start":5026.727,"end":5051.186,"text":"自的要我們簽管那這個時候我們當然知道他們也有一些考量比如說他們如果是一個法治國家那這個管財產是台灣的那怎麼迫使我們簽呢可是我們在應變的方案當然對於我們管務人員的安全或領悟怎麼去進行我們都有一些沙盤推演的對策這個就是我們這個"},{"start":5053.949,"end":5080.083,"text":"要危機處理的一個準備啦那現在的情形是他們內部政府也正在進行重新的檢視到底能不能這樣子違反法律或契約然後也違背了國際的輿論甚至他的現在的聯合政府啊他們裡面的這個政黨也有公開反對的國會議員也是"},{"start":5082.245,"end":5110.223,"text":"這個就是要提示部長因為既然你剛提的不管是陳俊宇委員所提的他是一個法治的國家但是對國際的信守承諾也應該遵行所以對台灣來講的話非常的重要因為我們台灣很多的華僑都在南非我們要保障他們在南非不管是從事經貿任何的事務應該是要保障他們在南非的"},{"start":5114.106,"end":5124.372,"text":"請主席再給我一分鐘另外剛剛我看到在業務報告裡面的應用外交主流化務實擴展"},{"start":5128.134,"end":5149.594,"text":"這個十億的外交我想我針對原住民的外交的MGO中心我想你有什麼樣的目前這個推動進展跟未來你來說明一下是總和外交我特別強調包括原住民外交當然也包括MGO的外交因為我們外交處境很特別原住民是我們台灣很大的資產"},{"start":5150.535,"end":5175.575,"text":"特別跟南島語系的國家我想在賴總統上次的這個太平洋三個友邦還有訪問跟過境美國就可以看到那這個原住民的方面我們除了有無論所大使有兩位有這樣的背景以外我們也加強在各種的文化經濟還有國際組織上面的互動跟合作當然我也很期待有"},{"start":5176.235,"end":5196.932,"text":"更多的原住民大使所以我們這個真的也是很激起希望能夠有這樣的人才針對這個原民外交的MGO的推動我想這個賴總統已經任命有兩個原住民無認所的大使那我想下一次的外交業務報告裡面我也想請這個兩位"},{"start":5199.154,"end":5217.646,"text":"吳任所的外交大使也請他列席我想問問他他未來短期中期長期的推動的外交事務包含南東以西的這樣的一個南太平洋北太平洋的這樣的一個怎麼樣做的連結來做一個報告一下好不好"},{"start":5218.266,"end":5232.827,"text":"好 我跟委員說明在這個上週紐西蘭有七位國會議員來訪問就有原住民的國會議員那真的是他們很關心這個原住民的外交另外甚至加拿大"},{"start":5233.488,"end":5254.503,"text":"他們也都有很多原住民的政策而且這已經不是只與一般的交流包括經濟文化權利的保障很多制度啊政策可以相互來交流跟學習所以委員提到兩位無論所大者他們各有負責的這個領域當然我們要看要也讓我們的國內國人知道就是說目前這個"},{"start":5255.644,"end":5278.694,"text":"原民外交的一些推動的政策而且我們在外交的樹裡面現在每況愈下那我們希望說能夠提振提升更能夠擴展一下我們的國際事業好不好是 那我也建議委員因為包括原民會啦還有幾個相關的部會如果能夠一併來做一個整體的對原住民外交的檢視我們就可以有更多能夠促成我們一併邀請好不好謝謝謝謝黃人委員"},{"start":5284.955,"end":5300.776,"text":"下面我們請陳冠廷委員來質詢您好我們請部長"},{"start":5311.55,"end":5340.29,"text":"部長好 委員長部長剛才其實有幾位委員有提到關稅的部分那我想要請教一下現在的進度特別是日美之間已經有一些談判的一些進度出現那當然根據一些媒體有提到說日本他可能是在北國全球上面的談判中可以視為一個典範但是當然日方不見得是所有人都這麼認為特別是只要是談判特別是在這種狀況之下他可能有得有捨"},{"start":5341.01,"end":5362.087,"text":"那這樣的狀況包含一些農作物可能必須要有一些讓步會衝擊到他們的農業也好 汽車業也好那我們可以從中得到什麼樣的資訊 情報以及從中得到什麼樣的經驗讓我們在跟美方談判的時候能夠更加的有餘裕這是第一個部分第二個就是日方怎麼樣應對中國"},{"start":5363.388,"end":5382.974,"text":"我為什麼要特別講因為中國商務部有各種的這種非常戰狼式的這種反擊對美方的反擊甚至是對美方的盟友甚至都要見縫插針對此我們有什麼樣反制或者做好相應的準備嗎各位說明確實我們也密切關注美日之間的關稅談判"},{"start":5384.935,"end":5409.146,"text":"那因為他們有直接的邦交關係嘛那有包括甚至我想川普就可以這個在他們在比較工作階層談判的場合他也後來也參加這確實是特殊的風格我們也密切關注那因為每日之間因為涉及到這個關稅貿易以外其實他們有一個很大的問題農產品的問題是汽車"},{"start":5413.407,"end":5432.174,"text":"這個產業對好像日本影響非常的大這個然後另外就是他們的所謂的安保就是說軍費的分攤的問題這個也是另外一個比較特別因為他們有這個日美安保的這個協定那在台灣方面我們很密切的關注尤其包括因為我們沒有汽車這樣一個這麼關鍵性到可以可能這個涉及到這個"},{"start":5439.996,"end":5465.601,"text":"就是日本的一個整個產業的一個發展那另外一個就是他們日方的談判策略跟結果我們也密切關注因為雖然我們也同步展開了跟美國的談判可是我想川普是把日本當作一個示範要讓各國來看所以我們也密切的關注謝謝部長那我還是強調一下就是說我們跟日方的關係也是很緊密的"},{"start":5466.141,"end":5491.457,"text":"那在這個談判的節奏上面我們可以從中觀察到那常常會節奏上面可能還是以美方為主導的節奏那所以我是希望說在在美國的我們的辦事處也好那加強對日方的聯繫那從中汲取一些經驗那快速的去反應這未來的談判都是會有加分的那特別要觀察就是說日方怎麼去應對中國的壓力因為"},{"start":5492.197,"end":5516.796,"text":"從日方的這個反應也可以成為我們未來的一些各種情境上面的演習所以我們是在第一批但同時第一批裡面的首先的最重要的日本可能已經給我們很好的一些經驗的或者是一些我們可以效法的一些做法那我們還是都要警惕一下因為看起來這還是會蓋成他們的一些衝擊剛才你提到的一些農業也好他們的這個汽車產業也好"},{"start":5519.318,"end":5528.186,"text":"那從中看到他們的節奏是什麼對我方我跟委員補充一點就是其實我們在先前談台美21世紀貿易倡議的時候針對第二階段包括農產品 工業 環境還有一些涉及到的項目我們已經其實剛好有這個準備"},{"start":5539.896,"end":5554.177,"text":"那這關鍵就是說我們的衝擊跟整個怎麼樣去配套對國內可能的影響所以相對來講我相信我們的準備工作是應該做得比較完整麻煩部長也要全力的來守護我們特別是我們是來自嘉義農業縣"},{"start":5555.359,"end":5574.884,"text":"那對於我方的這個農業必須要它的衝擊要把它降到最低這是我希望外交部來去協助的再來第二個部分就是剛才你提到這個安全保障還有軍費分擔等等那根據華府智庫的統計CSIS 他說美國目前全球的造船產能只有0.13%"},{"start":5576.784,"end":5594.354,"text":"那是落後中國南韓那中國是53%那南韓是29%日本是13%那甚至美方的這個造船的產能是落後於台灣大概是0.29%那我的意思是說剛才我們提到各項的這個跟外交談判的時候"},{"start":5595.254,"end":5614.087,"text":"對我方跟對對方都能夠雙贏的是什麼我認為就是安全領域上面在造船領域上面我們現在台灣的造船有很多優勢譬如以高雄為核心的這個國艦國造的產業聚落包含台船中心等等都有那我們的實際是有公務船海巡軍艦特種的作業船都有"},{"start":5614.947,"end":5639.374,"text":"我想請教部長外交部針對台美造船業的合作立場是什麼有沒有辦法來協助不管是海委會或者是其他相關的這些部門來去跟AIT來去就相關部門直接來接觸不管是維修共享維修產線共享設計健行或者是來確保我們印太區能夠保有量能的這種可能性想請部長來回應一下"},{"start":5640.114,"end":5661.454,"text":"是 確實我想因為川普總統上任之後就成立了造船的辦公室在直屬總統府之下他也跟韓國那時候這個尹錫悅總統第一個議題談的就是造船業因為對於中國造船業已經不只是在商用甚至在軍事上幾乎是"},{"start":5662.745,"end":5682.763,"text":"快要壟斷了整個國際的市場所以他也對於他的所謂的停港費有中國造船的都可以甚至是一百萬一百五十萬美金的這個稅那這個就是希望另外一方面要加強美國跟他的友邦的造船業這個就是台灣因為這幾年國建國造還有我們的造船產業也發展起來"},{"start":5688.408,"end":5691.13,"text":"所以這個部分除了自用之外我們跟美國現在有一個經濟繁榮夥伴對話在去年我們續約了第二屆就是新的五年裡面我們就提出針對運輸安全相關的項目那我們也會把造船業放進來這不只是配合美國的政策我們也希望在這個造船產業利用這一波的機會"},{"start":5710.823,"end":5729.022,"text":"讓台灣可以輸出到國際包括尤其是第一島鏈我想面對中國的整個青老除了軍艦以外包括海警船包括很多其他的西藏他們灰色地帶的這個青老非常的嚴重所以很多的這個我們海巡署用的這個"},{"start":5734.407,"end":5759.479,"text":"船艦這個快艇都是我們現在優先要發展國造以外也希望能夠輸出那跟美國能夠有合作在國際上市場也能夠佔有一個一定的地位謝謝部長那這也是符合美方跟我們的共同利益那我們剛才提到說安全的共享安全的這個確保其實這就是一個方向那我還是希望台美能夠透過制度性的合作"},{"start":5760.299,"end":5787.739,"text":"然後來去融入他們區域的造船體系那其實不管是在造船的船體本身或者是它的相關產業鏈特別是我國的通訊產業等等那這些產業聚落我們都有那我希望更加主動的來去談那部長我不知道你還記不記得我們在之前我在質詢經濟部長的時候我有特別提到說有美方的智庫有把這一個川普把關稅的公式的錯漏之處把它指出來"},{"start":5789.42,"end":5809.758,"text":"有那你不覺得這個智庫對我國非常友善嗎智庫因為有時候當然我們都很重視啦基本上我們跟美國的智庫的交往非常的平凡那這個部分他們所發表的專業的研究我們也都會參考所以我覺得智庫外交對台灣來說是無關"},{"start":5811.92,"end":5833.736,"text":"不是無關這個政黨的它是智庫外交是對台灣來講是重中之重因為你沒有辦法去推測說哪一個智庫會在什麼時候會對我們提出最關鍵的協助像上次傳統基金會就是提出很關鍵的協助對我國來講對我們關稅台灣來講都非常重要這是無關黨派的"},{"start":5834.376,"end":5859.224,"text":"這是對台灣有最大利益的我們希望外交部能夠加強協助在台灣的各個智庫然後對美方的這些智庫之間的關係那當然我們的駐美辦事處跟這些智庫都長年以來都有很深厚的關係我們也是希望能夠持續來去加強那當然我還是想要請教外交部是不是有沒有考慮把這個包含外交學院與你基金會啊國科會教育部等等"},{"start":5859.904,"end":5879.507,"text":"建立這些美國的一些研究學人你知道各個智庫他們都有研究學人來到我們台的這些駐點研究機制這是長期之間的人才培育無關黨派不管是共和黨還是民主黨不管是比較親共和黨還是民主黨的智庫都可以來台灣來跟我們有長期的關聯"},{"start":5880.208,"end":5901.181,"text":"那這樣的關係建立之後在關鍵的時刻特別是在關稅的時候他們就能夠指出對台灣有利有益的論述好 各位有人說除了美處啦密切積極跟這個在美國的智庫有很多的交流合作舉辦活動以外我們事實上也很多邀請那當然有一些計畫"},{"start":5902.663,"end":5928.744,"text":"專案性的委託 或者是說他以這個學人獎學金的方式進行那我們也尊重他們的學術的自主啦另外就是說我們的玉山論壇 凱達克拉論壇常常也都會邀請說也有一些他們的成果的展現那在關鍵時刻我們也是透過這些智庫進行所謂惡鬼外交甚至1.5鬼到1鬼都可以透過智庫做平台"},{"start":5929.204,"end":5955.282,"text":"那在台灣像美國的IRI、NDI還有這個NED還有這些就是不管共和民主的不同政黨他們成立的這些智庫還有包括民主基金會我們更是有對應的這個台灣的民主基金會所以這個智庫是非常頻繁現在已經不只美國跟歐洲特別這方面的交流現在非常的蓬勃發展"},{"start":5956.283,"end":5971.341,"text":"謝謝部長我特別強調過去我在智庫服務的時候那我的一些部署或者是實習生有的在日本大使館工作他是日本人有的在印尼的總統府工作那後來他們都有跟我國在駐地的辦事處有很深的連結"},{"start":5972.082,"end":5989.41,"text":"我現在是鼓勵我們駐館包括日本的我們的代表處啊積極的透過東京啊除了連結日本相關的智庫以外也連結其他國家住在東京他們不管是大使館或者是這一些智庫相關的一些代表"},{"start":5991.846,"end":6014.431,"text":"我想請問趙委我可以再問最後一題嗎好謝謝趙委那最後一點其實就快速回應就好安全許可的機制這個部分我們剛剛有提到這麼多的事情裡面最重要的就是人但如果人他沒有做過背景查核的話我們不知道他代表誰甚至是他背後的能量是在會不會來去導引他做出傷害國家利益的事情"},{"start":6015.211,"end":6033.232,"text":"那在美國國務院有外交安全局外交安全局裡面是專門處理接觸機密人員的資格審查那我當然知道說我們現在未來要配合行政院等等這樣的說法我有聽到那我也知道說院長也有提到相關的這個未來的一個方向但是"},{"start":6034.215,"end":6056.805,"text":"我是希望說評估的範圍他能夠從國家的忠誠財務到犯罪、民、刑事都要特別是民事也必須要包含在那有沒有可能外交部主動來去承擔一下在行政院跨部會議把你們的這個方向指引來跟行政院來分享來做一個主導特別是在外交部本身部內"},{"start":6057.941,"end":6084.668,"text":"是外交人員除了經過國家考試我們其實尤其是在派外的時候都有很進一步的安全查核那至於說幕僚人員這一波涉及到的就是機要有任用或者其他約聘那也必須建立更完整的制度而且要加以落實所以我們藉由這個一些發生的事件我們有在積極的"},{"start":6087.569,"end":6108.524,"text":"希望在制度面更加的能夠來做一些完整的規範我講這個原因是因為你講到農幫或者是經貿外交經貿談判那就涉及我國的重大利益這個就是非常機密的事情所以我才想說安全核可被檢查這個部分來好好研究一下"},{"start":6109.625,"end":6136.041,"text":"美國的話在聯邦的單位是由國防部的反情報安全局來去執行95%的這個背景查核那當然國防部說這個是調查局的工作那國安局的話是有國安局自己內部的所以其實現在每個部門都還有一些不同的查核機制那我是希望說部長你們可以自己來做部內的檢討看什麼樣的機制最符合外交部特別跟機貿相關的謝謝部長謝謝委員"},{"start":6140.757,"end":6146.64,"text":"謝謝陳冠廷委員上台諮詢那接下來由沈伯陽召委上台諮詢好 謝謝主席 那有請部長 謝謝"},{"start":6169.742,"end":6197.703,"text":"部長好好久不見因為剛剛前面有接續到這個考核的事情我在想說因為今天剛好隔壁調查局也有來人事總署今天沒有來但是這個考核的事情確實是非常的重要不過我打算等一下到隔壁問所以我就先問個外交的不過考核確實真的很重要我今天大概有四個問題第一個當然就是跟我們的預算有關係就是說"},{"start":6198.604,"end":6227.205,"text":"我有看到這一個外交部跟Discovery有合資一些這個紀錄片然後也有得獎那我看到今年的3月16到22有這些這個網紅組團訪台對不對說這一個觀看數是3,500那我覺得這個算是在總和外交裡面非常重要的一環因為它尤其是第二個它已經接觸到一般的人民不只是而且不只是說什麼是單純的知識分子而已就是說很廣泛的一般的庶民都可以去接收到這樣的一個訊息"},{"start":6228.366,"end":6257.797,"text":"那但是因為我剛好前陣子就上禮拜了我們有去外交學院那外交學院因為他們現在也有在辦這一個全民外交的課程那他有點是在帶譬如說台灣的一些NGO或者說偏鄉等等之類他們怎麼去加入這個總和外交那但是現在就是他們好不容易如果把人也可以把他訓練出來然後或許也可以跟外交部搭配那國傳司現在這個預算的部分是不是受到比較大的影響那目前因為畢竟他已經受到影響了我們大概也不能做什麼"},{"start":6258.237,"end":6259.881,"text":"那像因應的這個策略有什麼"},{"start":6261.124,"end":6286.366,"text":"因為他不能夠做這些文宣影響真的很大因為你還是要透過一些媒體管道去傳播我當然巧不難為無名之炊但是我當然盡量變通所以我就自己有時候親自上場開記者會然後辦活動然後變成一個議題甚至有爭論都不要緊就吸引國際媒體的報導"},{"start":6288.968,"end":6304.477,"text":"因為國內比較屬於我想大家都了解這個都很關心外交部可是在國際上因為中國它現在是排山倒海的它的所謂的一帶一路這些在很多國家去事實上有一些都已經是"},{"start":6306.23,"end":6334.924,"text":"涉及到違法的行為他也在做那我們要以合法的方式去對抗他然後就宣傳好像參加國際組織我們要讓更多的人來支持台灣的時候我們卻沒有這樣子的一個文宣的費用當然我是這個一方面是很難為但是也很難過啦所以我希望我自己或者像我最近辦這個不管是所謂的大阪世博要去發現要去所謂的尋找台灣Finding Taiwan我就變成一個活動"},{"start":6335.684,"end":6362.352,"text":"然後號召限制各地的人來投件這個就不是宣傳但是它會不會有效果也會有一些突破然後像歐洲像我知道去年奧運是文化奧運效果非常好歐洲人很有興趣所以我們今年有推出這個歐洲台灣文化年可是一樣沒有文宣的費用我們是要把外館年度性的活動做個檢討之後我們把它聚焦然後以活動或新聞稿或各種方式"},{"start":6362.932,"end":6380.725,"text":"包括一些網紅的邀請那有一些是幾乎半贊助的方式所以委員剛剛提到包括像我們國傳司邀請的四位網紅其中一位啦我舉個例子這個瓜地馬拉的這個網紅他在一週裡面那我也跟他互動他總共接觸到3200萬"},{"start":6384.93,"end":6399.049,"text":"人 點閱這西班牙語系啊那這個就是我想國團司也是功不可沒但是畢竟啦我們都要透過活動而不是一般的文宣管道真的也是會有點精疲力竭或是說力有未待"},{"start":6399.429,"end":6415.057,"text":"對 因為現在這個砍的這個狀況我就覺得說這個運作非常困難那剛剛聽到部長第一個當然就是透過個人透過個人去參與活動先自己製造新聞這個當然是會稍微比較辛苦一點那另外我剛剛有提到像士博這一次我已經這樣等大家看見臺灣"},{"start":6416.158,"end":6442.192,"text":"那我上面因為剛好聽到這一個我順便問一下就是說因為現在在這一個展場因為畢竟它不能夠直接弄出這個台灣的元素嘛對不對那如果說我們現在要把這一個元素把它增強這是剛剛講的剛剛已經講已經在做了那第二個就是說因為我們這個也有一些在那邊的同仁他們就有回報說其實在那個當地的這個導覽就日文的導覽他們有不斷的提到台灣"},{"start":6442.972,"end":6456.119,"text":"因為他是導覽他導覽的時候他在語音上但是因為他是在日文的時候提到那不知道就是說可不可以會同經濟部因為我知道最主要其實是在經濟部在弄那這個會同經濟部看能不能有更多這個語言的一個方式讓台灣可以呈現其實"},{"start":6459.209,"end":6481.011,"text":"台灣我們不去講大家都知道那因為日本當然也是協助我們用玉山這個科技諸事會社去登記了一個叫TEDWORKTEDWORK的但TW這個台灣也是TW但是我覺得這個就很自然的我們現在是從實質參與之後其實也是很有張力"},{"start":6481.792,"end":6487.758,"text":"很多日本人去看的時候打卡上傳那有些人甚至問TW不是台灣打個問號年輕人很有創意變成一個新聞事情我覺得這個也都是在大家覺得怎麼樣透過這樣的一個參與參與就能夠讓大家看見"},{"start":6501.952,"end":6526.664,"text":"至於說有一些官方的一些限制我們盡量去爭取可是我想民間的空間是無限大因為畢竟日本也是一個民主的社會所以這個是委員提到就是說它的台灣元素是具體而為的呈現在這個館我們經濟部不管是我們外貿協會號召了台灣所有的這一些新興科技"},{"start":6527.564,"end":6539.113,"text":"包括AI晶片還有所有的虛實整合的這一些資通訊產業還有智慧的這些解決方案我是覺得就像奧運當時在東京舉行的時候日本的NHK就稱我們是台灣隊我們有時候"},{"start":6548.834,"end":6564.368,"text":"有時候因為中國的霸道可是大家都知道心照不宣那透過自發性的力量呈現其實有時候適得其反反而對中共來講想打壓我們效果反而大所以委員也可以去參訪透過委員參訪你也有很多的粉絲以這個方式來幫助讓台灣能夠被世界看見"},{"start":6573.857,"end":6591.157,"text":"不過說到這一個就是說中國的ABA啦中國的打壓這件事情因為最近也是變得比較嚴重那因為WHA就是也要就WHO的事情所以也差不多要進行了所以我想後面再問一下就是說中越這個我先挑過就是說目前這一個WHA這件事情"},{"start":6591.838,"end":6605.397,"text":"就是因為畢竟離美國離開還有一段時間但是就是說我們之前很著重在2758那現在因為這件事情也快了那這個跟衛福部相關的合作針對這件事情有沒有一個相關的報告跟國人知道一下"},{"start":6605.951,"end":6633.605,"text":"我覺得跟委員報告其實美國雖然對世界衛生組織也許新的政府有一些不同的做法不過對台的支持力道並沒有減低今年二月這個在世界衛生組織的執行委員會裡面就是美日等國的這自然公開的對台灣來發聲以外其實中共想要用27582決議來排除台灣他們反而激起了這一些理念相近國家也表態"},{"start":6634.725,"end":6653.004,"text":"這很多都是有幫忙表態2758的所以有時候危機就是轉機因為中共打壓無所不在所以我們怎麼樣能夠透過各界有點是有時候也是借力使力讓台灣的聲音被聽見那可以跟中共我們站在同樣一個舞台上"},{"start":6653.624,"end":6673.036,"text":"大家能夠就是我們能為台灣來發聲對我們就是說對外當然我覺得外交部在應對中國威脅那現在當然是預算上有所不足這是一件事但是有些創意的發想這當然是很好那當然就是內部就是說我那天在去這個學院的時候也有特別跟他們提到因為內部我們也可能會有滲透或間諜"},{"start":6675.197,"end":6702.613,"text":"那內部的這個滲透跟間諜除了等一下這個隔壁那個忠誠考核是隔壁現在在問的我待會去隔壁問但其中有一項就是說這個教學因為在怎麼做一些忠誠考核義務還不如說他在過程當中對這個的學習因為今天我不是說只是要抓比如說被滲透者而已我們還需要一個蠻關鍵的地方就是裡面的人要怎麼知道對方的手法是什麼那我之前在這一個外交學院的時候我就問就是說資安的部分因為之前有建議過然後也已經放進去了"},{"start":6703.934,"end":6729.22,"text":"就是跟資訊滲透有關的那人員滲透有關的如果未來也可以放進去我們那天大概也有一個初步的結論那再請部長就是跟外交學院再提醒一下這件事情的課程的一個整合可能會變得更重要那就是我跟委員說明賴總統提到的那個所謂的不管是反滲透反併吞那些決議我們外交部現在也在辦理當中所以除了資安人安的部分我們也會特別強調"},{"start":6730.76,"end":6753.005,"text":"因為這個對於外館本身的那些人員他們經常被騷擾又可能被滲透他等於是內外交迫所以這個部分如果能夠給人員更多的訓練的話他們可能更能夠去抵抗中國的威脅關稅的部分我想說很多人問過那我看有時間差不多我就先不問謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝沈培洋周圍上台諮詢接下來林楚英委員上台諮詢"},{"start":6768.017,"end":6769.12,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請林部長"},{"start":6778.479,"end":6789.286,"text":"部長好時間來到了這個四月底那我們知道這個二月份總預算復議之後現在國民黨開始針對總預算的解凍那麼我想從剛剛這個一路下來我想等一下可能蠻多國民黨的委員要詢問其實我也想問這個問題因為呢我確實也發現了國民黨最近包括他們剛剛黨團好像也開了個記者會那麼也開始在講"},{"start":6806.556,"end":6821.602,"text":"到底為什麼不預算解凍我先帶大家來看一下這個部分國民黨他們確實做了一個所謂預算解凍的倒數計時器我剛看了一個最新的他們現在已經說是總統公告總預算通過已經來到了31天"},{"start":6823.183,"end":6831.835,"text":"但是我想國民黨在講這個預算解凍的時候可能自己沒有搞清楚或是真的就是盲投盲表決連自己當時我們挑燈夜戰通過了什麼案子可能都不知道我來幫國民黨念一下這個是當時我們表決而且我們覺得萬萬不可的"},{"start":6840.366,"end":6848.489,"text":"在有關於外交部總體部本部的預算當中他說外交部的業務費要凍結本來是70後來手寫改成了50可是他說要等到執行30%之後才能申請解凍而且還要院會同意所以言下之意現在二月份才剛過而且總統公佈嘛那麼現在才幾天請問我們現在執行超過30%了嗎"},{"start":6869.649,"end":6877.375,"text":"剛剛還沒有如果做剛剛委員提的那個時間點的話是啊而且如果說要百分之三十才能申請的話那這不是開全天下玩笑嗎就是之前你們大筆一揮一動不是要七十就是要五十而且還說要執行了百分之三十那當時說這個凍結是為了要認真監督現在逼你們趕快提出來解凍那不就是逼你們在一個月之內趕快把百分之三十給花掉"},{"start":6899.433,"end":6902.603,"text":"請問部長可以這樣子來使用預算您會這樣用預算嗎"},{"start":6904.352,"end":6919.925,"text":"不會因為預算執行都要嚴格的監督因為其實三層啊我有12個月那就是要到4月才能夠接近三層嘛現在才4月嘛那當然而且這個應該是講以時間來算啦到了4月我們第一季才有機會把它過完嘛但是預算是可能用一季一季來執行的嗎我相信很多的預算"},{"start":6933.016,"end":6940.825,"text":"它其實是一整筆規劃出去對不對對 它不會說4月底就結束它可能要執行到年底但預算已經啟動所以這個是三層確實是很難去做這樣的一個要求啦"},{"start":6947.253,"end":6971.182,"text":"就是說才解凍 如果要的話因為立法院會期也有限制啊那我們的很多的項目我們無法啟動比如說跟國際的很多的這些合作案你不能等到這個所謂的執行30你現在就一執行他就會違反他已經幫我們凍結了而且我現在不能夠提案去解凍"},{"start":6972.482,"end":6986.412,"text":"所以根本無法啟動所以這根本就是邏輯上面的妙物所以為什麼本席想要利用這質詢的短短的幾分鐘時間讓部長好好回答因為等一下國民黨的委員上來你可能沒有辦法把這中間的邏輯講清楚因為這就是設計了一個完全讓你動彈不得所以這也是為什麼卓榮泰卓院長當時在跟人民宣講跟人民報告的時候特別提到了解凍就等同刪除"},{"start":7000.902,"end":7019.403,"text":"因為就像您剛剛所說的他說要執行百分之三十才能申請解凍但是就像您所說的有一些他一發包出去可能就超過三十了那你就不能動因為你一旦動你是不是就違反立法院的決議那所以面對這樣的狀況部長我們現在該怎麼辦呢"},{"start":7022.768,"end":7041.843,"text":"如果要問我有沒有什麼亡羊補牢我們一個一個來解其中以前都是委員會審查就通過是不是可以請大院通過一個決議交回來委員會這樣子還可以爭取一點時間不然如果現在大院的議程還在總質詢還有專案的報告還有其他的這個是會沒有時間"},{"start":7049.749,"end":7069.024,"text":"大院來通過任何一項所以我覺得我有跟外交國防委員們報告因為這個真的是外交是不分黨派尤其是假設到現在這個所謂的凍結50%我們的外館到6月30號就要打烊的話這個真的傷害國家之大"},{"start":7070.404,"end":7081.676,"text":"那這樣也都是外館的約聘人員也不能用那些水電啊等等的話這個真的是已經迫在眉梢了啦必須要趕快為之處理對確實部長講出來重點就是在這個業務費的部分很多人都會認為說業務費不知道是什麼其實外館的水電房租租金日常"},{"start":7090.126,"end":7097.873,"text":"非執行業務的所用的其實通通都在這個所謂業務費然後更不要講說我們像國外旅費被刪了15%一般事務費被刪10%那麼媒體宣傳費更是全部的刪除喔我想剛剛前面沈博洋委員提到的我們過去有機會跟國際的媒體來做合作好好的來行銷跟宣傳台灣我想如果大家有去看YouTube就知道隨便打一個中國中國的旅遊"},{"start":7116.829,"end":7133.983,"text":"中國有許多他們狹下的官媒所做的這個什麼舌尖上的中國啦然後中國的好吃、好喝、好玩的這種行銷其實是遍佈整個網路世界我們其實真的單單只是就"},{"start":7134.884,"end":7148.342,"text":"不涉政治只是單獨的國家的形象宣傳旅遊可能都已經比他們來的弱勢如果現在宣傳費又全部刪除其實這個等於是等同讓我們在國際上面噤聲"},{"start":7150.825,"end":7166.276,"text":"那我們如果是這樣的話真的部長還是要想出一些方法另外我要講的就像剛剛部長你所提到的國外旅費的部分因為本席來國防外交委員會之後確實有許多到國外去也看到外管同仁非常的辛苦喔我就來講這個藍白亂砍刪除預算之後原定編定的10億5582萬元"},{"start":7172.861,"end":7193.627,"text":"因為以前面凍結50%然後呢可用的部分又有包括之前的15%被刪掉因為有所謂的統刪如果我隨便以一個畫大餅來給大家看你就會發現其實剩下的只剩下35%所以可用的大概是6億6千多萬不到6億7千萬那麼對於外館來講我們知道我們很多的外館"},{"start":7198.689,"end":7218.057,"text":"它其實是幅員遼闊然後很多的這些如果他們國外的差旅費被縮減到只剩下35%的時候那麼現在他們如何來進行他們的差旅或管務應該要如何來維持總不能一直都坐在辦公室裡面不出門吧"},{"start":7219.073,"end":7233.198,"text":"跟委員報告這影響例如我們要派人員到外館或是派的住館都需要用到這一筆費用也就是我們人事的調動會被冷凍起來"},{"start":7235.999,"end":7251.52,"text":"另外當然我們自己也許我們出訪我們盡量的減少一點但是立法委員也要出訪啊像最近委員會就會到美國嘛那這個也都是在這一筆預算裡面那我們也到底是不是應該等比例統三十五趴"},{"start":7252.581,"end":7276.227,"text":"還是怎麼樣其實這個很頭痛啦我們同仁就是想說怎麼去處理這些問題因為如果說等比例的話那都要一併35%嘛可是我們還是覺得立委出國其實對台灣來講是很有幫助的尤其到華府啊去替台灣發聲而且是跨黨派的所以這個部分我也是跟同仁講說我們就算再辛苦啦立委的部分我們怎麼樣讓大家能夠出榜為台灣來發聲"},{"start":7278.007,"end":7305.855,"text":"好我覺得喔其實在這個預算的凍結的過程中其實民進黨的立法委員同樣的也希望能夠爭取預算解凍但是如果以國民黨在我們當時院會當中表決所通過的很多他設下了許多你看不到的陷阱那麼如果你們沒有講清楚就會變成是你們好像不願意解凍或是故意不解凍但是就像我前面說的他們用一個一個的限制讓你們根本動彈不得"},{"start":7307.635,"end":7323.997,"text":"這個部分必須要對外講清楚因為民進黨也希望協助只是我們人數上 表決不贏但是論輸不能輸好嗎 部長好謝謝謝謝林柱英委員上台諮詢接下來有王定宇委員上台諮詢"},{"start":7336.496,"end":7365.409,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩部長部長好我今天有三個問題要請教我們部長因為今天是業務報告第一個就我們邦交關係以目前我們看這兩天在巴拉圭的媒體報導說洪都拉斯因為被中國騙了簡單一句話就中國承諾的事情不僅沒有做到"},{"start":7366.309,"end":7387.848,"text":"反而把中國廉價的貨品倒進去宏都拉斯的市場導致宏都拉斯的失業率不斷上升另外白蝦的部分過去佔他們出口的40%台灣的報價好 佔比也高一年跟他們大概有2億美金的交易額等等所以有傳出兩個消息一個是宏都拉斯的外交部長說想要來找台灣"},{"start":7390.39,"end":7409.425,"text":"他當時見利忘義中國的大撒幣大概只撒到他們的政治人物他們的民眾並沒有得到好處把頭賣收起 背誰受苦那現在他們的外交部長他知道國內的經濟局勢出問題了說想要回頭拜託跟台灣是不是能夠重啟經貿等等"},{"start":7410.646,"end":7423.169,"text":"那第二個是巴拉圭這個媒體報導說紅國有意向重新尋求跟我們台灣的所謂的邦交關係我不知道部長對這個事情有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":7423.678,"end":7449.221,"text":"是他們宏都拉斯的總統候選人之一有公開的表示 是他還不只一位啦有兩位 就是說如果他們獲選 當選為總統執政他們要恢復跟台灣的邦交 這個是他們講的那當然我們也密切關注另外就是說 我是從白瞎這個事情可以看到是我們幫忙宏都拉斯發展起來的 他有點忘恩負義"},{"start":7450.562,"end":7468.503,"text":"結果傷了他們的人民中國答應了都跳票而且還請消中國跳票國家其實可以整理出一個名冊了他跳票國家很多所以我們現在幫忙貝里斯發展白蝦而且現在我們業者都認為貝里斯的環境"},{"start":7469.744,"end":7489.563,"text":"來養殖白蝦比紅兔拉絲好很多坦白講我們幫了很多國家我們也不走大傻逼的路線了不花錢不走經濟文化外交但紅股有做這樣表述的時候我請教部長他們的外交部長雷伊娜或他們的經貿部長有沒有透過總是過去是邦交國有沒有透過關係尋求我國的協助"},{"start":7492.706,"end":7520.299,"text":"因為外交涉及到我想有一些是機密性我就不好意思在公開場合我另外私底下再跟委員來詳細報告他們公開有講嘛那當然我們也聽到了但是事實上當然不可能用這個方式去談到這個所謂的重新去進口的問題國家利益國家尊嚴還是要守住對就是說我們是一個好朋友但是不是潘納也就是說當你"},{"start":7521.88,"end":7541.3,"text":"做出對我們國家實質損害的時候坦白講我不吃白蝦都可以我不見得要買別人的絕對不可能買他的嘛這是國人的一個心情那我接著這個問題我請教我們部長目前全世界國家當中有沒有國家在尋求跟台灣重建或建立正式的外交關係"},{"start":7543.161,"end":7567.767,"text":"我們現在的所謂總和外交其實從以前的固邦發展到隆邦進一步要拓邦那當然我們要拓邦必須做好隆邦因為人家就會覺得跟台灣建交是可以學習台灣的發展模式這樣才會有助於固邦所以這個是三位一體所以委員講的沒有錯這個是理論嘛有些國家是很羨慕"},{"start":7569.448,"end":7584.768,"text":"跟我們建交的國家得到的發展經驗比如說像史瓦帝尼我們對他的幫助不是一般的援外我們已經在建構他的智慧城市然後醫院 農業其實這些都是周邊國家 像我們電網我是要請教就是說"},{"start":7587.091,"end":7611.066,"text":"我們當然我們台灣是全世界大概以外交的教科書來講是獨立的一章啦我們跟主流國家也許沒有正式的邦交關係但是跟主流國家像美國啦歐盟互動的關係甚至於比他們有邦交關係的還要密切這是一課我現在問的是另外一課就是說我們正式官方的邦交關係曾經有某太平洋的島國也曾經說過"},{"start":7612.367,"end":7628.117,"text":"那南美洲有兩個國家曾經有人表達過我現在正式詢問我們國家的外交部就是說就你現在了解有沒有國家我們要問哪一國在尋求跟我們重建或建立新的正式邦交關係"},{"start":7630.57,"end":7653.519,"text":"我們在朝這個目標啦 當然還沒有到成熟的階段不過我們當然希望能夠增加邦交國不過我們現在是先把我們的這個邦交國的發展模式做好因為以前在談這個是不是建交 涉及到是不是要什麼樣的條件我們現在就是沒條件 我們這個條件就是我們在我們建交國家發展的模式"},{"start":7654.159,"end":7679.349,"text":"都可以適用在未來跟我們建交的國家因為我問這個問題是2758號決議文在世界各主流國家美國還有很多州政府英國啦或者義大利的外委會啦都通過2758號決議文的真相是不涉及台灣而2758號決議文是當年中國建構所謂的一中不管是政策或原則的法理基礎"},{"start":7680.329,"end":7704.334,"text":"這個法理基礎你去看那個原文根本沒有處理台灣的代表權問題所以美國相當積極告訴各國說根據這個決議各國應該可以跟台灣發展關係也是台灣參加國際組織的法律基礎這個是在法律戰上面所以這幾年的2758號決議文演變到後面要展現出來的成果就是有些國家縱使他跟中國有邦交"},{"start":7705.034,"end":7731.676,"text":"他也是可以跟台灣邦交另外一個就是國際的組織特別是聯合國轄下的組織台灣並沒有被任何國家代表包括中國這個法理基礎現在全世界澳洲先通過決議了所以我用這一個基礎才會問部長目前有沒有國家他們未必要跟中國斷交可是尋求跟台灣重建相當程度的外交關係有還是沒有或者說現在未成熟不能表達"},{"start":7733.463,"end":7756.986,"text":"在法理上剛剛委員講以2758號就是這個解釋文現在得到美國還有友邦的支持大家一定要清楚這要做很多在做溝通宣傳嘛讓大家瞭解不是中共講的2758號就一中原則然後台灣就中華人民共和國這個是已經我講我們在做一些國際上面的攻防嘛可是另外來講有些國家他知道跟台灣"},{"start":7757.907,"end":7786.868,"text":"建立邦交是好的可是這個是有空間但現實上是什麼可能他們的執政黨或他們的精英或他們因為被控制包括一些債務陷阱整個國家幾乎都被中國控制他就很難再改變那這個時候怎麼樣去尋求外交關係的拓展我們當然也會評估另外也就是包括像美日一些國家對他們來講也是重要的戰略位置的地方我想在中美洲"},{"start":7787.688,"end":7809.341,"text":"委員就知道我想這個盧比奧國務卿去之後我想在中美洲我們我們現在只剩下瓜地馬拉跟這個貝里斯可是很多國家都會覺得說現在美國的政策對西半球的重視那台灣所在之地啊這也可以加強跟美國關係這個都是正面的也許有些東西正在cooking當中不便"},{"start":7810.101,"end":7833.274,"text":"但我覺得這一塊其實是從法理基礎到實質的案例也許是一個努力的方向他要抗壓性我們要協助他避免中國的經濟脅迫我們中國的排山倒海這個是會讓一些國家有所顧忌所以我們要跟美國起來push back我請教一個態度的問題就是說我們在外交部這邊曾經編列協助烏克蘭的經費"},{"start":7836.596,"end":7862.325,"text":"那目前美國對烏克蘭的態度川普政府對烏克蘭的態度確實有很明顯的不同那我們不替別國詮釋他們的外交政策我們現在回過來review我們國家的部分那烏克蘭當然過去他們跟中國關係不錯但是也看到澤倫斯基總統這兩天開始揭露中國軍演俄羅斯甚至有中國傭兵在烏克蘭戰場打仗也抓了兩個戰俘開了國際記者會"},{"start":7865.286,"end":7875.314,"text":"我請教一下我們國家目前的態度對於烏克蘭的人道援助是會繼續還是會跟隨著美國的節奏做一個重新的評估"},{"start":7877.065,"end":7900.835,"text":"我們還是會從人道援助持續在支持烏克蘭包括像城市發展很多重建像最近智慧城市展很多烏克蘭的市長來其實他們也面對很大壓力所以中央政府受制於這個國際現實但是地方政府就有空間那現在澤倫斯基已經公開講了事實上去年的這個NATO的這個高峰會就已經點名"},{"start":7902.356,"end":7915.725,"text":"俄武戰爭俄國背後的所謂的Decisive Enabler關鍵的推手就是中共啊 中國啊那現在烏克蘭面對到 甚至中國也有人去參軍這個是我們當然希望"},{"start":7920.788,"end":7945.716,"text":"我簡單講我們希望烏克蘭能夠不要去因為中國的因素限制了跟台灣的來往他們過去被中國這樣子簽了所謂的他們簽了好多條約我只問一件事情就是目前跟烏克蘭地方政府的交流持續人道援助持續但是新的局勢的變化烏克蘭的中央政府跟我方到底有沒有開始接觸還是保持跟原來一樣"},{"start":7947.729,"end":7964.053,"text":"其實接觸是有限,我們就是透過第三國因為其實在中東歐的國家也很關心烏克蘭跟台灣有一些合作,我們有一些援外或有一些互動當然也透過第三國好,我們有機會再談謝謝,謝謝部長謝謝王定一委員上台諮詢那待會兒辛曉欣委員執行完畢後休息五分鐘然後我們請馬文清委員上台諮詢"},{"start":7983.887,"end":7984.868,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請部長部長早"},{"start":8000.461,"end":8016.501,"text":"外交部其實在很多的互動上面應該主動一點應該是比較好啦過去跟現在好像有一點點不一樣部長剛剛有委員提到就是我們預算凍結的部分我們現在如果要提出解凍最大的困難在哪裡"},{"start":8018.813,"end":8036.945,"text":"我想因為涉及到大院通過的一些決議最大的困難告訴我們最大的困難因為過去每年都有解凍的程序部長您也擔任過立法委員現在跟過去如果有不同現在最大的困難在哪裡如果現在要提出解凍的話"},{"start":8037.731,"end":8065.244,"text":"就是有一些規定比如說業務要執行三層啊然後這個因為洞協一半然後因為立法院會期也可能五月底那這個時間的壓縮在五月底之前像現在都可以提出來過去其實就三層的那個規定我們有一些業務是還不符合可以提出解凍的標準三層的規定到現在我們一年12個月現在已經快要五月了如果再一個月大概就六個月就半年了"},{"start":8066.104,"end":8094.794,"text":"我們到現在如果連30%都還執行不了第一可能我們的執行力有問題第二我們的預算幅編太多所以它足以硬硬所以你到現在連30%都還沒用到因為它的標準就很簡單它就是30%你就可以提出解凍如果這樣都還做不到我能想到的大概就這兩個理由因為你還沒送出來因為有些國際合作案你一簽下去之後"},{"start":8096.072,"end":8110.104,"text":"他沒有辦法分階段來執行Yes No 那個就是1跟0的問題我想您很清楚我說您擔任過立法委員所謂的30%一定是你一般的常態業務如果你提出來如果這個被"},{"start":8111.645,"end":8126.438,"text":"在野黨或者甚至執政黨有意見的話立法院有意見的話其實都可以再做說明可是連提都還沒有提這38%達不到我就剛剛提到的那兩個理由是最明確的你在國際合作國際合作你也可以進行到30%啊不管你是哪一部分"},{"start":8129.941,"end":8138.467,"text":"所謂的不確定性是你在執行完成以後才會有不確定性可是你在計劃的當下當你在要這個預算的時候你沒有告訴我們立法院說這個有不確定性我們甚至可以不要編是這樣嗎如果30%都還沒有達到我們現在已經過了快要已經五月了這個部分請我們外交部自己本身去做完檢討以後為什麼不能夠提出來如果30%都還辦不到那是執行不利"},{"start":8159.66,"end":8163.122,"text":"這是要跟外交部提醒的不要把它再推到在野黨上面那另外今天部長也有提到我們現在根據外交部的消息南非政府已經在要求"},{"start":8174.93,"end":8182.096,"text":"台灣駐南非的代表處在三月底之前要遷離首都並且將住處甚至降級而且更名這個部分我們直接被台北我們本來是台北聯絡代表處現在直接被改名成為台北商務辦事處這個部分部長在說明的時候有提到說我們目前還是運作正常我不知道這個部分要怎麼運作正常"},{"start":8203.112,"end":8218.118,"text":"因為我們甚至在被降級的部分它本來是準大使的這樣的一個地位那你現在變成這樣子我們對等措施是什麼我們也看不到"},{"start":8219.895,"end":8245.722,"text":"因為除了牽管或降級或涉及到一些名稱我們都一一有在就是說除了我們拒絕這些違反雙邊協議的行為之外也在協商中那以剛剛委員講的其實他雖然有那樣子說但實質上我們目前還是按照原來來運作除了沒有牽管以外就是有一些"},{"start":8246.722,"end":8261.359,"text":"外交上面的互動啊並不是如他們自己先前有些宣稱的時間或有一些要做的事情那這代表有空間所以有空間我們據理力爭也希望說能夠讓他知道利弊得失啦"},{"start":8262.2,"end":8276.226,"text":"他國內外現在的壓力也很大那他也應該會開始去考慮啊如果單方的行為可能會引致的後果部長我們現在已經被直接改名了他要求我們簽我們還沒簽沒有錯可是我們已經被改名那你從臺北聯絡代表處變成商務代表處我說其實他在等級上面已經差了一大截準大使變成我們一個只是一個貿易的一個代表處那另外"},{"start":8289.411,"end":8296.656,"text":"目前實質上還是維持原來的關係那我們以前什麼名稱都不重要為什麼我們在國際上面會想要不擋所以如果我們要讓全體人民有共識你應該很清楚的讓大家知道南非對我們是不公平的然後是我們要持續的力爭而不是告訴我們運作正常可是我們看到的它是不正常"},{"start":8316.59,"end":8318.871,"text":"因為他直接把我們歸類我們現在已經四五月了他已經把我們改掉了嘛你一點辦法都沒有我們說要對等的措施也看不到他直接把我們降級以外而且他把我們歸類成國際組織"},{"start":8334.278,"end":8337.041,"text":"他把我們歸類成國際組織我們也看不到我們的對等措施是什麼因為在國內他們一點改變都沒有可是我們被改變了那這個部分我想要請教的是因為就這個問題的延伸我們目前還看不到不過我們請"},{"start":8351.915,"end":8367.43,"text":"外交部可以提供相關的書面資料我們要怎麼樣去因應因為我們看到的部長剛剛也提到說像南非的住管是我們的資產那我們過去有許多的錢利都是管處直接就被沒收而且還移交給中國"},{"start":8369.352,"end":8385.614,"text":"使用我們看到很多的案例像巴拿馬那時候我們在住巴拿馬的那個使館我們大概有2200萬美元這已經大概台幣7億多了可是在當時直接就移交給中國"},{"start":8386.835,"end":8409.425,"text":"那另外還有多米尼加斷交的時候我們的很多的房產也是被歸類為中國財產像薩爾瓦多我們赤字3000萬美金所興建的中薩文化經貿中心就直接被薩國政府接管然後做其他的公共用途還有非洲的案例有聖多美"},{"start":8410.523,"end":8424.778,"text":"普林西比這個也是我們有很多的國會大廈啊或者他們原住的總統府等等其實那時候大概也都被他們要求我們台方人員都必須要撤離管社還有布吉納法所還有像"},{"start":8426.179,"end":8437.102,"text":"索羅門群島還有吉里巴斯等等我念到的這些其實我們每次都告訴國人或者在立法院說我們一定會據理力爭一定會爭取可是我們從頭到現在看起來只要被拿走的我們就拿不回來了而且好像也沒有發生的機會"},{"start":8444.224,"end":8456.508,"text":"也沒有特別的管道那像南非這個也是因為他已經逐步逐步從去年十月到現在又說三月那現在沒有明確的日期可是他已經直接就這樣做了對我們都是在國格上面一個很大的損害而且對我們的權益也造成很大的影響甚至我們未來像這樣的一個管產或者像我們台商的這些利益他怎麼辦管產的部分部長您怎麼看"},{"start":8473.103,"end":8494.992,"text":"因為他沒有辦法就是如期的迫使我們簽管現在我們還在使用中那我們也會據理力爭那會窮盡一些方法那他也感受到壓力來自於內外的所以這個時候有空間我們繼續協商我們要捍衛我們的館產因為我們也找了律師做了研究他們也找了有律師跟這個"},{"start":8497.153,"end":8513.304,"text":"有關的所以我想這個這個大家研究完就會知道就是這個財產的所屬第一個財產的所屬我剛剛念了一堆所有的國家其實只要跟我們斷交以後他幾乎我們都拿不回來所以我們在還可以因應的時候你要怎麼樣確保這是一個方向因為另外一個"},{"start":8518.007,"end":8520.75,"text":"部分就是紐時的報導就是說川普他原理要簽行政命令要大幅改組國務院而且要砍非洲行動跟關閉當地大使館還有領事館"},{"start":8533.542,"end":8537.064,"text":"那我們在這個部分因為我們說對於南非的談判我們是找美國日本甚至還有G7的國家幫我們發聲然後幫我們說話可是看起來美國已經要放棄這個地方甚至有點是驕傲因為中國已經把所有的勢力都往非洲在推展"},{"start":8554.994,"end":8570.15,"text":"可是像這樣子的一個狀況美國現在突然有這樣子的一個做法這個有在我們的沙盤推演裡面嗎剛剛部長說我們所有的狀況裡都有做沙盤推演這個部分有做沙盤推演嗎有 因為當然美國的政府"},{"start":8570.791,"end":8595.448,"text":"因為國務卿Rubio也剛剛有表示並沒有說先前傳的那樣但是就算是有什麼樣變化我們台灣在非洲的外交關係就是我們跟史瓦帝尼要鞏固邦交然後我們另外有五個代表處持續會發展那再來就是跟南非他自己現在面對到的就是美國把他的駐美大使趕走"},{"start":8596.689,"end":8612.939,"text":"驅除出境 列為不受歡迎人物阿哥啊 就是說非洲這個所謂成長的機會法案是關係著包括南非所以他們為南非內部有很多的討論要不要屈從中國因為南非腸道他的外交自主嘛還是說應該跟台灣之間的關係應該要修好"},{"start":8618.482,"end":8622.063,"text":"對因為你剛剛提的是美國我說美國現在有一個這樣的做法那美國會怎麼做那是美國一個大國他有辦法去跟南非或者整個歐洲抗衡我們現在沒有辦法我們自己的邦交國我們自己鞏固沒有錯可是像南非我們現在已經面臨到這樣的問題我們不要再多做掩飾如果萬一因為"},{"start":8640.831,"end":8643.013,"text":"原來還有美國可以幫我們講話或者其他的你說G7就是歐洲啦其他的國家可以幫我們講話現在顯然美國都已經跟他交惡的情況之下我們要怎麼樣自保這個外交部要先想清楚而且你的沙盤推演裡面這個應該要列入重點項目因為我們已經沒有靠山了"},{"start":8661.71,"end":8664.311,"text":"所以這樣有可能我們很多的資產還有我們台商還有我們原來在那裡多年所做的努力其實都有可能會化為烏有這個部分外交部是應該要提前應應的你的沙盤推演也應該要做這個部分好不好"},{"start":8676.755,"end":8685.245,"text":"好我會都親自主持那另外因為剛剛有提到震災的部分不好意思主席再跟您接一點點時間震災的捐款剛剛部長也提到任何的捐款都應該要嚴格的監督因為這個都是大家"},{"start":8694.995,"end":8699.097,"text":"捐出來而且都是救命錢所以非常的重要所以在這裡對於緬甸政災的捐款或者每一筆他一分一毫其實都牽涉到大家的愛心那過去我們在對於烏克蘭的一個提供的一些資助還有包括我們之前也提過在"},{"start":8718.739,"end":8723.764,"text":"立法院也提到的就是有國內成立的商會民間自己成立的商會他們公開募款說要捐給敘利亞的這個善款還有之前我們用透過公務預算捐給烏克蘭的這幾個部分我們請外交部提供現在進行的一個狀況不管你的查核或者我們後續的執行的結果"},{"start":8740.939,"end":8761.108,"text":"比如說我們透過捷克的NGO的這個組織然後捐給烏克蘭的這個部分因為已經大概過快一年了吧這個進度到底怎麼樣執行的成果到底怎麼樣啊到底送了哪些物資也希望我們用一樣的嚴格的監督的態度來面對它好不好好請提供資料書面資料謝謝好謝謝謝謝馬文君委員上台諮詢接下來有許巧欣委員上台諮詢"},{"start":8777.363,"end":8779.565,"text":"謝謝主席我們請林佳龍部長部長好我也好我想現在大家最關心的都是在這個川普的這個關稅戰裡面雖然延了這個90天可是這代表說我們爭取90天的時間但每一分每一秒其實都是非常珍貴的那我想要先問一下我們目前談判的窗口是美國貿易代表USTR還是美國的財長"},{"start":8810.245,"end":8820.991,"text":"大家其實都很擔心的是說因為川普他們的政權的特殊性跟過去美國他在拜登時期是不太一樣的我們針對這個USTR來溝通的話那美國財長這邊那我們有沒有什麼方式能夠比較快的來接近他們"},{"start":8830.909,"end":8848.303,"text":"我們有多元的管道除了美國貿易代表署以外當然其他的方面我們透過各個管道也都在傳達但是我們現在是用USTR作為因為你要進入到項目的談判所以我問你一個問題先前我們傳出來說我們是在第一批名單的時候指的是在USTR是第一批名單"},{"start":8856.81,"end":8865.62,"text":"然后先前有说我们有视讯会议然后谈得非常的顺畅也是指的在美国贸易代表USTR这个部分吗"},{"start":8866.246,"end":8890.261,"text":"USTR都有在裡面因為它是最主要的主管機關對 所以我的意思是說我們在優先名單裡面那是在哪一個的優先名單裡面因為美國政政這個部分它等於是有不同的管道嘛您剛也談到了所以我要問的事情是我們當初像民眾說我們在第一批跟以色列一起而且我們做過視訊會議了相談甚歡這個部分我們所接頭的是哪一個單位"},{"start":8896.192,"end":8916.62,"text":"美國川普政府他們基於他們的主管跟分工那都已經對接了所以不是USTRUSTR是最重要的因為到談判的階段具體的項目一定是USTR因為如果您所說的是我們跟川普政府已經接頭了那就是指的是美國財長囉"},{"start":8918.561,"end":8923.706,"text":"他們當然會協調 我想不只是說財長 或者是商務部 或者是國務院我想美國政府也是一體的 那既然是說那組團 因為台美之間長期就是透過我們的OTN跟他的USTR對接 因為這裡面有很多技術系統所以這個我們當時說跟以色列的第一批是由USTR這裡主導的嗎?"},{"start":8941.501,"end":8950.628,"text":"是好那因為呢我們就覺得很奇怪我們大家都以為我們在第一批的談判裡面可是呢美國財長這邊呢說的所謂的優先名單五個國家裡面卻沒有談到我們我們可以看到談判時程跟各國的立場其實是日本韓國英國澳洲跟印度他們都已經目標在六週之內或者說最近來跟美國財長這邊來溝通我想要問的是這兩個有什麼差別"},{"start":8970.481,"end":8980.893,"text":"就是我們當時所說的我們在第一批而且已經視訊而且已經談得很好那跟現在所說的美國首批貿易談判對象的五國六國裡面沒有台灣差異在哪裡可不可以幫我們說明一下"},{"start":8987.401,"end":9014.032,"text":"因為他列舉這五國並沒有排斥其他國家就像台灣或以色列對但是他是首批嘛我們已經放榜了嘛所以不是現在才上榜我們現在上榜啊我們就有在談啊所以說現在進行是所以首批貿易對談判對象在日本、韓國、英國、澳洲、印度他們其實不是首批我們其實比他們還要更前面他現在說等五國五國等啦不只這五國啊"},{"start":9014.412,"end":9039.033,"text":"所以我們也包含在這裡面只是他沒有寫出來優先名單也在第一批我們也在第一批所以應該是日本韓國英國澳洲印度加台灣以及其他國家是這樣說嗎對所以你的意思是說美國財長說我們首批貿易談判對象漏掉了台灣沒有漏掉他們已經宣布了就是台灣就是在談"},{"start":9039.653,"end":9047.676,"text":"沒有啊因為財長所說的東西跟美國USDR所說的內容跟現在上面也沒有以色列啊上面也沒有談嘛因為談判喔他不會是由財長單獨去談嘛他是美國川普政府他盡力分工主管然後看哪一個"},{"start":9055.739,"end":9071.737,"text":"這個非常有趣就是說在川普任內的體制跟過去有點不一樣很多事情是美國財長他說了算真正跟美國財長有溝通到的像美國財長他每天都有很多川普相關的發言才是最近身到川普身邊能夠去做談判的"},{"start":9073.499,"end":9100.194,"text":"如果我們走的都是USTR這個路線說我們在USTR裡面排的是首位並不等同於在我們美國財長這邊也就是他真正正式的談判裡面排的是首位那我們應該要怎麼樣讓兩者之間能夠結合在一起呢各位媒體這是第一批的名單就是有台灣那因為這次談除了USTR談的我們一般的所謂的這個貿易涉及的跟關稅有關其實"},{"start":9101.295,"end":9118.621,"text":"除了對等關稅以外也有那個擴充貿易法案裡面的232條那也有其他的跟投資是啦但是我們現在談的我現在談的就只有在川普的關稅戰的這個部分而已其他的部分我們先不談我們先談關稅戰因為國人最關心的是關稅戰嘛"},{"start":9122.762,"end":9139.156,"text":"那我們可以看到日本韓國英國澳洲跟印度他們基本上都是很多人他們都比如說已經排定比如說像是當時韓國是下周嘛然後呢這個英國的話是兩國官員已經數週會談那我們看日本日本是他們有這個"},{"start":9146.603,"end":9155.089,"text":"經濟再生擔當大臣斥責量16號到18號訪美那我想問一下我們目前在川普的這個關稅案的談判是政務委員鄭麗君那請問副院長副院長對不起那請問他什麼時候會赴美談判"},{"start":9165.487,"end":9181.574,"text":"都已經有在洽談談判的時間地點跟方式我只能講說這個同步平行在進行中那我們以台灣跟日本來比較好了這個是在4月17號的時候我們可以看到美國總統川普"},{"start":9183.155,"end":9209.1,"text":"他祭出對等關稅日本經濟再生大臣赤澤亮到美國去談判那他就想說呢用川普自己的個人帳號寫說呢有重大的進展也就是呢日本派出了他們相對應的這個官員到美國進行談判那我要請問外交部的就是那我們台灣接下來會有官員赴美與川普進行談判嗎"},{"start":9210.829,"end":9229.425,"text":"也會也會所以會像這個畫面長的這樣子我不知道川普因為他是中間跑進來的你說誰是中間跑進來的我沒辦法決定因為他的這個風格很特別但是我們的規劃目標是像日本這樣子的型態嗎還是我們有其他的目標型態"},{"start":9230.146,"end":9249.426,"text":"現在跟委員報告我們不管是總統講的台美經貿這個深化的路徑圖或者是我們先前透過視訊雙方面進行已經彙整聚焦的項目都在進行中進行中那請問在什麼時候時間點上面因為談判涉及到雙方面啦當然當然我們知道"},{"start":9250.647,"end":9267.867,"text":"機密性那也希望不受干擾能夠順利的進行我們今天也沒有問說你們談的是什麼項目這個交給你們自己去處理但是我想要問的是既然您剛剛已經講到了有這麼多的談判項目都已經有非常重大的進展那最後兩個問題一個是我們會不會赴美"},{"start":9271.25,"end":9299.122,"text":"談判就是公開赴美談判第二個事情是公開赴美談判之後那什麼時候會對國人宣布我們最後的談判結果兩個問題我們都有這樣的準備赴美談判那因為有90天那策略上的怎麼樣去進行因為包括那個美日談判對我們來講也是很重要的參考我們怎麼樣有更多的資訊去對我們最有利的談判"},{"start":9299.762,"end":9318.647,"text":"那我們要了解美方他現在有一些安排那我們也做好準備所以你剛講的就是說我們會依照這樣的一個我們跟美方談好的節奏來進行目前都是溝通順暢也都按照雙方面的一個準備在進行中所以我們在90天以內就是說從他宣布關稅的90天以內會向國人公佈我們所兩邊會談的最終結果嗎"},{"start":9326.189,"end":9341.697,"text":"一定要公佈啊 我們當然希望越早沒有 因為它有可能會在延期嘛但是在第一批裡面 其他國家在談啦我們也要謹慎的很注意去了解所以我們非常確定我們在90天以內嘛儘管它有可能再往後延長的話我們也是鎖定在90天內 是嗎對 我們當然是以這樣做準備OK 好 謝謝 謝謝部長謝謝謝小新委員上台諮詢現在休息五分鐘 五分鐘後繼續詢問"},{"start":9674.045,"end":9674.065,"text":"嗯"},{"start":9719.025,"end":9724.268,"text":"好 現在開始開會接下來由我們黃國昌委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請部長"},{"start":9749.823,"end":9764.107,"text":"部長你那個辦公室的機要有沒有依法辦,特殊安全查核?我的辦公室的機要,有。那是不是應該依法要辦?依法是不是要辦?"},{"start":9767.194,"end":9792.272,"text":"我們是要辦就是按照他的那個他的負責的業務跟職級是 好 來一般的跟特殊的現在我今天在司法法治委員會問那司法法治委員會啊調查局局長剛剛跟我說因為之前吳釗燮帶在身邊十幾年的親信何仁傑帶到外交部的時候我問"},{"start":9794.059,"end":9799.688,"text":"依法是不是要辦特殊安全查核?對阿居局長給我的答案是沒有辦"},{"start":9800.865,"end":9825.356,"text":"這件事情你有掌握嗎?有你有掌握嗎?是我問吊牙局的時候,剛剛吊牙局局長,我也不曉得他是不是不高興他說他們是被動,用人機關給他們,他們才會去查核那這個是用人機關的問題那如果依法要查核,卻沒有查核現在外交部有理解為什麼當初沒有送給吊牙局辦特殊查核嗎?"},{"start":9826.531,"end":9853.602,"text":"我請我們展開政風調查那目前這是兩回事啦第一件事情因為部長你了解我的個性我不喜歡把問題糊在一起談談不清楚今天我在外交國防我問的關鍵問題是他告訴我第一個依法要查核第二個外交部沒有送給他們查核第三個所以沒有查核現在我的問題來了外交部為什麼沒有送給調查局要辦查核"},{"start":9855.335,"end":9867.885,"text":"這個是我現在的問題因為我那時候還不是部長嘛我了解所以我剛才問你說這個狀況你有沒有掌握嘛有有嘛是那所以現在為什麼沒有送給調查局辦查核你不知道"},{"start":9868.943,"end":9887.345,"text":"我知道因為我一看到這個是有一些問題存在嘛所以當外界在詢問我的時候我知道說這件事情在偵辦中我雖然沒有對外講我知道問題的關鍵包括這一點是那你現在問題的關鍵沒有刑事偵辦交給刑事偵辦這個我們大家都尊重啊"},{"start":9888.166,"end":9910.793,"text":"但現在問題是在行政程序上今天吊牙局是在隔壁啊 釋法法治委員會啊大聲喊說那是因為外交部沒有送給他們啊所以我現在才請教你嘛你剛剛說你掌握了狀況嘛外交部沒有送嘛那這件事誰要負責任他曾經有查過 那是很久以前啦那是照外交部來講 應該要辦理對嘛 那為什麼沒有送 誰要負責任 這是我的問題"},{"start":9915.254,"end":9923.204,"text":"所以我就啟動了調查 內部調查就我的部分就政風調查 包括這一點也要進行調查需要調查多久"},{"start":9924.58,"end":9953.804,"text":"這個就看我們政鋒來來來 請政鋒 需要調查多久這個事情很簡單啊應該要送 當初沒有送誰決定不要送 誰要負責任這個事情要調查很久 這個有這麼困難嗎來 請報告委員 我們在4月14號4月12號 接到部長室的指示我們就開始啟動調查了然後目前已經調查到將近告一段落然後我們現在在做資料的整理"},{"start":9954.85,"end":9964.685,"text":"什麼時候可以調查完我們努力盡快的在希望能夠在這一周能夠把它做出來這一周完成嘛 來請部長"},{"start":9966.479,"end":9990.509,"text":"部長我再強調一次,司法偵辦當然尊重司法偵辦嘛我們所有的社會大眾也會看嘛看說當初黃曲榮這個不肖的商人為了錢在那邊搞共諜然後幫中共發展組織那個組織的網絡有多廣現在浮上水面的只有三個人嘛"},{"start":9991.289,"end":10009.375,"text":"那但是看黃曲榮他做的時間接觸範圍的廣度恐怕涉案的範圍不僅止於此但無論如何我們尊重司法檢調機關的偵辦社會大眾也都會檢視但我現在回到的是外交部的部分部長請你不要誤會"},{"start":10010.495,"end":10035.121,"text":"你那時候還不是部長,我不會要你承擔不屬於你的責任這是我向來的問政風格那但是,現在既然您是部長,也只有您在這個位置上可以告訴全體國人說,當初為什麼該送沒有送那第二個,針對這件事情沒有送到底誰應該要負什麼樣子的責任針對這件事情,部長"},{"start":10037.042,"end":10044.472,"text":"剛剛說這個禮拜調查會完畢嘛那接下來就行政責任啦行政責任就責的部分部長需要多久"},{"start":10046.735,"end":10070.869,"text":"我想我們 但是最快的時間嘛 因為這個事情這個都形容詞啦 他說這個禮拜會做完嘛那我說他做完了以後 接下來行政究責 行政上要怎麼處理就是部長您的權爭了嗎我們會加速來進行 因為我要了解 看到他的調查報告涉及 因為我希望他能夠更周延啦沒有關係啦 因為他那麼久的時間涉及人員業務 部長 我只跟你說啦 禁書辦理 禁書辦理"},{"start":10073.691,"end":10090.667,"text":"那第二個事情是這個事情您是什麼時候知道的我是在這個就是有委員去質疑是所謂一個核心的到那個時間點才知道嗎對專門委員我才知道"},{"start":10093.356,"end":10114.585,"text":"沒關係 接下來的問題會進入非常深的深水區那可能也不是你可以回答沒關係我今天詢問你的問題就到此為止就先打住但我期待喔政風的說這個禮拜可以做完嘛那我希望你要展現一個態度給國人看"},{"start":10115.834,"end":10140.679,"text":"我們按照目前的安全查核機制該送沒有送這件事情一定要有人負責任那就等您看完政府公司調查的報告的時候下一次下一次我希望你看完這個報告了以後盡速的追究責任從嚴辦理可以嗎我們一定憑公辦理好謝謝黃國昌委員上台資訊接下來有廖先祥委員上台資訊"},{"start":10151.65,"end":10153.571,"text":"謝謝主席 邀請我們的林部長部長 早安之前裴洛西來的時候有一些可能錯誤的資訊就提到說我們外交部有花錢去請裴洛西來那是查核中心有查核是沒有但是我們外交部每年有依照美國法定的規範"},{"start":10176.533,"end":10191.525,"text":"每個月編列10萬美金去跟這個美國的政治的公安公司來進行對美的遊說就是過去每個月10萬那一年就大概3000多萬的台幣那今年還是一樣保持一樣的規模嗎我來請我們北美司長因為這個詳細的數字會業務範圍來請"},{"start":10195.866,"end":10210.976,"text":"是 我們今年到目前為止 聘用的公關跟往年的規模是差不多的差不多 對 目前是差不多一個月差不多十萬嘛 美金這個數字的話 我可能需要再verify一下"},{"start":10211.556,"end":10235.155,"text":"好沒問題那除了這些給公安公司依照法令給付的依照美國法令給付之外那譬如說最近這個龐培奧美國國務卿有來台灣嘛那有媒體披露說有民間的公司有花錢邀請他過來那我想跟部長確認民間公司花的這筆資金跟我們外交部有沒有任何的關係"},{"start":10236.83,"end":10258.851,"text":"因為是不是有花什麼資金因為前後的有一些查核好像也不太一致不過我們沒有沒有就是民間公司怎麼做他們的事就算他有花錢我們不太了解也跟我們外交部沒有任何的金錢上面的金流關係我想確認一下因為每年我就大概了解一下規模金額的一個規模那如果說每年就是這筆公關"},{"start":10260.383,"end":10284.986,"text":"費用的話,那三千多萬台幣嘛大家會期待多這三千多萬的一個遊說費用能夠在適時的這個在應該要發揮作用的時候能夠發揮作用嘛那我想跟部長確認,那現在美國川普上台就任之後那剛剛很多人討論到了一個經濟問題那我們每年花費的這個公關的費用目的是為了要遊說嘛有沒有在這時候派上用場"},{"start":10286.759,"end":10310.985,"text":"我們長期對美國的不管公關或是說這些諮詢都在進行中效果也都良好我想當然我們是因為理念相近他們其實美國的法律非常嚴格的他們的政治人物也都有遵行所以這一點倒是請放心那效果來講我想我們如果從推崇效果不一定直接相關啦但是透過各種的管道去就是能夠這個對美國"},{"start":10313.726,"end":10340.333,"text":"因為美國是個民主國家他行政哪有國會當然就是都以合法的方式去就是去進行公關對 我說對象對美嘛 對美是一個輪廓 大大的輪廓嘛那現在好像是因為現在大家都會認為說好像川普也沒什麼在理財院或眾院嘛常常就是一人講的話 然後就當作政策宣布嘛所以我要確認一下這筆錢是"},{"start":10342.483,"end":10367.789,"text":"主要的對象是可能白宮參院或是眾院你們的重心是在哪邊我們的美處跟公關公司他們會有最好的判斷因為效果是都是很好的那這件事情你有沒有跟公關公司說就是台灣現在面臨到這麼大的一個經貿問題那請他們在公關上面給予協助那他們有沒有有一些具體的您能講我不知道你能不能講有沒有具體的一個反饋"},{"start":10369.676,"end":10388.411,"text":"有,因為美國這個是個多元民主的國家,它的遊說也有法律的依據都是依這樣辦理,那一定是效果是有的那他們怎麼,那既然是依法,那這部分會,像美國就會公開金額或什麼嗎?那內容會不會公開?這個委屈依照美國法令辦理會公開嗎?可以公開嗎?"},{"start":10392.959,"end":10414.617,"text":"就是該揭露就揭露 沒有揭露的 我們在執行單位他們一定有他們的判斷既然可以揭露的話 那有沒有我們這邊可以明確的實質的內容委員都拿一點 如果有比較具體的 您希望能夠垂詢我們來看怎麼樣了解因為這樣子比較籠統一點"},{"start":10418.259,"end":10442.707,"text":"經貿問題我們公關公司有沒有具體的協助我們外交部我們中華民國政府我舉個例子來講當然比如說我們台美21世紀貿易倡議的談判過程那怎麼樣得到更多的支持這都需要很多資訊那他們透過這個遊說政治的一個法律的依據去進行公關的顧問或者是怎麼樣去溝通所以效果都是良好的"},{"start":10442.947,"end":10465.388,"text":"我想其實經費只要是合法的我們都不會有太多意見只要符合美國法令那就政治公關的工作或許跟我們國內的政治環境不太一樣當然它是合法但是我們也希望說這筆錢每年3000多萬給了美國公關公司那它就要有相對應的一些我們需要它的時候它必須要有相對應的一些功能來協助我們的政府"},{"start":10466.63,"end":10473.487,"text":"對 就是一定的要求那你希望說我們過去可能大家認得說我們對面的管道不是很多"},{"start":10475.263,"end":10500.415,"text":"很多啦我跟委員包括韓國瑜院長能夠進入到國會參加總統就職典禮這也不是一般公關其實我們跟美國的關係是真的除了這種公關以外最主要是我們的理念一致我們美出的經營真的是包括所有的這些可能性都不是金錢可以去評估的也是像美國政治它是你要講道理的"},{"start":10501.435,"end":10522.795,"text":"我們就期待我們立法院通過的預算 給我們外交部用那錢既然花了 那就希望在適當的時候 要有適當的一個效果我們不斷地來精進那透過我們已經委託的機關 那請他們用力的協助 好不好 謝謝好 謝謝廖安的支持謝謝廖新祥委員上台諮詢 接下來有王宏威委員上台諮詢"},{"start":10529.98,"end":10532.842,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我請林部長好 部長請問一下 是就是外交部所任用的這個一等資義那麼如果進外交部的話 要不要做忠誠查核 依法要不要做"},{"start":10553.436,"end":10562.536,"text":"呃 要 要嘛 應該要一般查核 特殊查核 看他的業務啦 負責的範圍但是一等之一 一等之一需要做忠誠查核 特殊查核嘛"},{"start":10564.745,"end":10584.281,"text":"就是這個有主管機關嘛像就是說它涉及的業務是有這樣的一個機密性應該要送特殊查核因為這是根據公務人員的任用法第四條只要是你出任或者是調任或者是在任都要辦理相關的查核"},{"start":10585.27,"end":10605.722,"text":"那我因為今天在我們國防就在隔壁國防在我們司法法治委員會有委員問到問到就是涉及共諜案的何仁杰因為大家都知道他歷任了包含國安會還有外交部那所以調查局的說法是說何仁杰他在任職這個"},{"start":10608.382,"end":10633.353,"text":"國安會的時候曾經查核過一次但是他之後再去調任到其他的機關譬如總統府跟外交部都沒有查核所以請問一下如果說我們先不管總統府的部分如果是他到國安會然後他再進外交部是不是外交部應該與查核才對是"},{"start":10636.167,"end":10646.312,"text":"所以依照何仁杰的案子如果他在2016年5月才進行過一次的查核他又到了外交部跟總統府所以這個有沒有違法的問題"},{"start":10648.575,"end":10672.026,"text":"我想這個涉及到依法行政的部分他是重返這個外交部不過我想您問我的話我認為是應該要查核依法應該要查核那麼請問一下外交部一等之一會涉及哪些的這些機密的任務或者是文件"},{"start":10675.32,"end":10696.434,"text":"因為他是機要任用,就是看他部長任用他賦予他什麼任務,我想一般都有相當的機敏性所以一等資義確實有機敏性,但他也要具體看每一個人的業務當你用一等資義去任用的時候,基本上他一定會碰到一些機敏性的資料跟業務才對"},{"start":10697.586,"end":10716.807,"text":"就看部長賦予他的業務範圍但是我是認為一等這個機要的這個資歷的任用他是涉及到機要那當然也可能會涉及到機民的業務所以以部長您來看就是這位涉及共諜案的何仁傑"},{"start":10717.788,"end":10745.569,"text":"在這個過程裡面是不是確實出現了一些問題就是說我們該查核的時候沒有依法去做查核而他涉入一些機敏的資料機敏的業務那麼他甚至應該辦理一些特殊的查核那我剛才講的是不管是出任在任調任這還是這是基本款這是基本款如果他有涉及國家安全重大利益的還要做特殊查核"},{"start":10746.289,"end":10752.413,"text":"所以也就是說今天會是會出現這樣的一個問題那是不是要在這過程裡面確實有過失及疏漏的地方有關於司法偵辦在進行中那那個部分我想檢調也會來查明但是就行政調查的部分我啟動正風調查就是希望釐清這個何源當時所負責的業務涉及的機密事項那些資料有給那個相關單位嗎"},{"start":10775.91,"end":10788.905,"text":"現在就是在整理中我們的政風處最近就是很密集的在會診而且在約尋相關的人了解他的業務所涉及的一些機敏性的範圍到哪裡"},{"start":10791.557,"end":10812.415,"text":"對我想應該要做全力的偵辦而且呢我剛才說這裡面顯然在我們有應該依法去做的沒有去依法做應該要做的沒有做好那因為時間關係我想請問一下部長在4月初緬甸發生大地震那當時呢外交部有特別提到因為我們關心台灣人在緬甸的狀況因為緬甸詐騙事實上詐騙台灣人的狀況"},{"start":10818.22,"end":10823.524,"text":"非常非常多而且有很多帶救援的這些人應該還帶救援因為我們現在海外詐騙事實上前陣子曾經稍微降下來一些我們可以看到2023的時候確實有降下來可是從去年開始到今年今年我們是統計到4月8號海外的詐騙又回升了而且如果我們看資料統計"},{"start":10846.382,"end":10865.067,"text":"以緬甸、遼國來說還有泰國我們成功救援的比例是偏低的泰國、緬甸、遼國我們的救援比例是偏低的所以我想請教一下我們外交部針對海外詐騙的回升還有針對要加強救援我們國人回台灣我們有什麼樣的精進防範的辦法"},{"start":10872.495,"end":10899.947,"text":"是首先自2022年期間當然我們也已經協助救援的人數也高達1500人但是因為這個數字實在是這個太多了多到就是說其實剛剛委員所提到的這個整個救援數的比例還是有限那首先因為這涉及到跨部會的業務所以我們也有行政院包括政務委員來協調因為除了我們外管我們外管是負責急難救助可是有一些警政"},{"start":10900.447,"end":10922.203,"text":"第二就是說涉及到的這一些跨境的犯罪那我們就必須請外管那過去是各自在進行我們就外管是一體的這一點在第一線來做救援工作是很重要那因為有一些國家涉及到像緬甸或是說您提到的寮國真的是一些國家的一個"},{"start":10924.545,"end":10943.598,"text":"制度比較不上軌道所以我們會透過間接的方式第三國或有熱心的人士或台商來協助那怎麼樣做到能夠確保救人優先但是又能夠符合我們的一些法律行政的規範不會讓公務員陷入險境或為難這個都是我們在不斷的檢討跟改進當中"},{"start":10945.619,"end":10956.368,"text":"這個部分我希望可以書面提供給本委員或者是我們那個外交委員會來做這個了解因為我要特別去提醒部長按照我們現在的數據顯示從去年開始其實國外詐騙它的"},{"start":10960.791,"end":10986.16,"text":"建樹又開始在升高我也知道外館要去營救是非常辛苦的那當然包含我們國內的宣傳國內的防度其實是非常重要但是這部分因為我們看到的數據讓我們有些擔心去年的數據又開始上升然後再加上我們當然也希望能夠提高我們的救援率這個部分就麻煩我們外交部提供書面的資料給我們 好嗎好 謝謝"},{"start":10989.101,"end":11001.531,"text":"謝謝王宏威委員上台諮詢接下來有吳世瑤委員上台諮詢吳世瑤委員吳世瑤不在那接下來有張啟改委員上台諮詢"},{"start":11017.604,"end":11018.29,"text":"請林家榮林部長"},{"start":11027.51,"end":11051.515,"text":"保定喂好丁蓋你化解了民主基金會的人事僵局我是高度肯定的謝謝你提出來之後找到一個韓國瑜可以接受的人民進黨政府也可以接受的人那個是賴清德總統在最近上任快一年朝野和解跟朝野合作成功的一個案例我高度肯定我也期待這邊我們跟美國這次的談判不要搞到後來"},{"start":11057.605,"end":11076.135,"text":"投降各地賠款你落下一個各地賠款的外交部長好不好我們來想想有沒有什麼是美國願意給的而且是我們台灣需要的那我先問這個進展第一個你一直好像聽你講這個談判非常樂觀那我還在那邊問這個經濟部的處長江次長他從那次視訊完之後就停頓了連這個談判都沒開始啊"},{"start":11084.534,"end":11110.311,"text":"那現在是進度停擺了嗎?還是怎麼樣?都進行中,我們美處跟美方都有很頻繁的在溝通安排進一步的談判日本都談了第一階段結束了嘛現在南韓還要開始,我們差不多要再等多久?我們都有洽談了適當的時間跟這個出席的人員等來啦,我們來畫危機為轉機啦"},{"start":11113.909,"end":11142.906,"text":"談判一定是有拿的時候也要給嘛對不對我們有沒有想出來不是美國只有他喊牌說叫我們買這個金幣這個大概跑不掉啦對不對那個不算進去這個不算在這個逆差裡面這個也是很大的一個當然在省啊對他沒有算進去我們就要跟他講嘛對不對那除了這個之外要我們一直去投資台積電去還有我們的產業一直去投資之外有沒有是他們也要給我們我們也需要的"},{"start":11143.706,"end":11156.11,"text":"有沒有想過 例子能源呢我先開個頭 等一下看你有什麼好方法吧所以我們外交部有邀請金融美台商會阿拉斯加州長來參加所謂的忘年會就是美台的這個我知道 這個很好那我進一步來講 你講到天然氣我問了經濟部經濟部說我們目前所有天然氣的採購"},{"start":11171.235,"end":11198.752,"text":"美國佔我們的10%現在可能要增加兩到三倍那我提一個更具體的建議是你剛剛講阿拉斯加官方的天然氣來了我們跟他合資一起來賺錢這會不會更好如果這樣很好啊對不對進井路透社就有一個新聞他說有440億美金整條的他希望跟我們合作現在南韓也在爭取對不對包括要挖天然氣管道管線我們一起來投資一起來賺錢可以嗎"},{"start":11200.986,"end":11225.888,"text":"這會更好 比那個去買 買了很多天然氣又更好投資當然能夠建立的合作關係更緊密這是一個更好的路嘛第二個 而且以後如果這個除了這個商業的考量其實能源安全啊 跟韌性因為我想美國跟台灣如果說阿拉斯加的天然氣啊它不會比較受制於中國的影響對嘛 所以第一個我們有共識也是應該是個好的方法除了"},{"start":11227.129,"end":11249.125,"text":"擴大去買天然氣投資方面一起賺錢這應該是我們這次可以談的一個很大的突破第二個核能啊核能是一個好議題啊你有注意到AIT的處長古立言最近講了兩三次了對不對有他說對他說核能美國跟日本現在在重啟核能它穩定而且價格是低的我們電競就不用像現在一直在漲啊"},{"start":11250.455,"end":11269.983,"text":"美國商會一直在呼籲美國商會每一次跟我們談的第一件事情都說台灣現在他們來投資最大問題是什麼我們的能源可能不夠我們的電力可能不夠因為我們現在要推展半導體跟AI我們價格一直漲而且常常亂調三年調五次他說他們現在投資都碰到問題有一個穩定價格又低的就是核能"},{"start":11274.665,"end":11288.639,"text":"我跟委員講 核能部門來先救核廢料處理美國很有經驗跟技術 這個也是我們需要解決的問題他們的解決 這個也是一個合作的項目所以這個我們有共識 去突破 去跟美國要談包括核廢料他們幫我們處理"},{"start":11291.201,"end":11298.687,"text":"這個核能的設備包括Humble服務我們全部跟他買這個利差就降下來了喔而且是他要的嘛川普也在講川普的選舉就是能源的輸出果嘛所以他在天然氣轉啊轉啊轉啊天然氣就開始賣那我們說要不要合資第二個核能的部分我們跟你買買設備買技術那這個對我們的電力幫助很大啊我們發展AI半導體就有幫助了對不對第一個電價不只不用漲還降"},{"start":11320.945,"end":11344.143,"text":"因為我們現在一度電大概3.8塊核電大概只有1.3塊那你去買那個什麼再生能源5.8塊來回之間我們電價就可以降核能的發展有一些政策跟主管其實不是外教部但我想是核廢料的處理因為美方有很好的經驗跟這個設備還有相關的如果能夠協助台灣處理我想這個也對於縮短"},{"start":11345.064,"end":11348.731,"text":"所以我們是不是有共識把這個列為一個事實上經濟部也說這個可以列為討論我們去爭取看看如果包括你講的他可以幫我們處理核廢料美國處理得很好啊"},{"start":11355.805,"end":11375.993,"text":"現在的一方面法令上我們已經都提案了法令我們會趕快去處理然後最近這一兩年美國跟日本他們這個核能就40年過後日本已經延長到60年了美國有些地方都已經到80了我們現在的核二核三都是40年就要停了我們會爭取再20年這個沒有問題這技術上沒有問題還有包括核廢料美國都可以處理當然請他來幫我們處理這是一個美國要給我們而且對我們來講是需要這個才是有突破"},{"start":11384.676,"end":11402.148,"text":"這樣不只不讓變成什麼割地賠款 上前祖國期待喔 跟民主基金的人事案一樣我們再做一個突破好不好那最後我大概用一分鐘時間問一下那個吳釗燮他六年 八個邦交國因為那個共諜案嘛對不對你現在怎麼處理 你有前面去清查嗎不要又發生類似狀況"},{"start":11404.878,"end":11420.111,"text":"我有折騰政風處進行調查也就他接觸的業務跟人事等這個調查最近會完成我們來做損害控管"},{"start":11421.071,"end":11426.213,"text":"也能夠避免未來再發生調查完要對外要公開好不好不要再出現斷交的狀況所以有點時間我請教一下剛剛是我提的天然氣不是只有買還要投資一起賺錢第二個考慮核能重啟核能美國幫他們處理核污肥料你說你也有一些想法是不是有什麼突破的方法"},{"start":11443.049,"end":11458.797,"text":"沒有 有關於能源 台灣因為是個能源進口國那如果能夠從美國來進口包括天然氣或油或等其實這個也多一層能源安全的考量因為美國會用他的船來運送然後這個期間也會經過我們台灣附近的海域"},{"start":11464.499,"end":11473.283,"text":"這個是也是兼具有經濟跟安全上的考量啦這是一個那核廢料如果不解決其實談核能其實台灣社會就是沒有辦法進入到下一個階段去談核電的問題但是未來的技術我想有一些開放的就是大家都討論的空間但是核廢料的先來幫忙台灣如果能夠協助處理我想這個應該跨黨派啦大家會從這裡切入也只是一個比較好的路徑美國很有經驗有技術可以處理嘛"},{"start":11493.373,"end":11521.095,"text":"那核電除了核二 核二跟核三可以核二是可以重啟 核三可以研擬核四廠在那邊整個總體檢一下那甚至現在全世界都有小型的核電廠對不對這是民進黨比較不排斥的這個都可以好好去談好不好那我們共同努力希望繼這個民主基金會人事案之外這次的談判外交部可以辦理一個更積極的好不好 做一些突破我們化危機為轉機我們不只有去投降好不好 共同努力謝謝我們要來努力"},{"start":11523.377,"end":11526.359,"text":"謝謝張啟凱委員上台諮詢接下來李昆城委員上台諮詢謝謝主席我們請外交部林部長"},{"start":11541.633,"end":11565.466,"text":"主席好 委員好部長好 辛苦了這個我早上聽到很多委員在講說那為什麼我們行政院或是外交部預算不趕快解凍啊我在想說那為什麼當時候要去刪預算 要去凍結預算早知如此 何必當初啊我來看一下在總預算通過之後那您有寫到台灣在世界舞台已被消音"},{"start":11566.306,"end":11570.109,"text":"那其中關於業務費凍結了50% 37.64億然後媒體政策還有業務宣傳的經費全數刪除1.11億然後國外旅費刪減了15% 總計1.58億所以前陣子我有看到媒體有在寫"},{"start":11587.748,"end":11609.3,"text":"這個有關於外交部的這個業務費凍結50%要執行30%之後才能升級解凍而且呢解凍呢要經過立法院的院會同意才有辦法凍之那所以我剛剛聽到很多這個立委在講啦說趕快解凍啊現在不是已經快要三分之一了啦那為什麼當時候業務費要凍到50%那業務費凍到50%有什麼樣的影響部長能不能再做個說明"},{"start":11617.45,"end":11637.6,"text":"業務會凍結50%影響不是只有50%因為很多業務是要先期規劃去洽商才能夠未來同意之後來執行所以我想這一次的凍結數因為是一個統動所以它沒有去分項目所以有些項目你會發現說會影響我們政務的推動尤其是外管"},{"start":11638.42,"end":11666.326,"text":"因為很多的外交其實是交涉都要上都要一年以上的時間才能夠逐步的進行所以可能當時並沒有考慮到外交的一個特色所以我們這部分也是說有請求就是說如果以前是有委員會來解凍如果也許針對外交部分大院能夠能夠針對這個決議做一些新的通過的提案讓外交可以"},{"start":11669.107,"end":11687.603,"text":"我們可以不受這個洞穴這樣子影響因為現在影響已經產生了產生什麼樣的影響 有沒有一些比較具體的有一些我們在外館當然有些固定支出 除了這個水電房租就是有一些約用人員 其實我們高度的也是需要一些約"},{"start":11689.707,"end":11710.366,"text":"聘僱的人員那些在管務的經營上是很重要那尤其有一些領務或有一些行政協助的事項那雖然這些只是一個機關裡面的可能在最基層的執行人員可是因為我們要減少我們一些公務的負擔我們不可能都用公務員嘛這個部分的影響是相當大的在外觀"},{"start":11711.648,"end":11729.347,"text":"提到外管的事情我請教一下部長我們在國外有租用的117間的社管是不是有可能在7月就可能繳不出房租就算是我們有自由的住外管社會不會也因為到了7月繳不出水電費無法正常營運其實這個部分"},{"start":11732.833,"end":11760.347,"text":"因為公務員他都會很就是說依法行政所以如果說大院能夠有解釋這個部分可以除外或者是我們的這個主緝單位能夠有統一的解釋那我不是指的處長啦我指的是說整個行政院跟立法院之間能夠就因為這個事情真的是會傷害到我們外交嘛這個部分那當然"},{"start":11762.316,"end":11776.449,"text":"這些所謂固定的支出是不是就要算在這個所謂凍三的這個統凍的範圍這個也是另外一個可以大家來討論的方向但是它就是一起刪的嘛因為這是含在業務費裡面"},{"start":11777.09,"end":11797.026,"text":"三就三就沒辦法啦要去追加與否嘛但是我說動的部分其實動有時候比三影響的更大它的傷害因為它不確定性因為你會不會解凍因為我們必須尊重立法院職權也許最後動了之後最後沒有通過解凍啊有可能啊不能夠排除這種可能啊"},{"start":11797.966,"end":11811.696,"text":"會不會發生就是說 將來有一天或是最近我們的副院長曾立軍要到美國去做這個談判然後到了美國 連一個能夠開燈的辦公室都沒有會不會最快發生這種情況六月之前是 目前沒有動的這個部分因為他這個是要"},{"start":11821.352,"end":11835.037,"text":"就是一半嘛我們當然可以會移緩季節我們怎麼樣去針對因為這次規定齁其實這次也是麻煩欸不能留用很多項目不能留用所以就沒有辦法來這個"},{"start":11837.058,"end":11850.452,"text":"這個所謂的不管以緩計及或者是留用不過如果是上半年因為川普講這90天應該是在我們最近的就是會來執行我也不希望這個事情發生這個部分我們為了確保國家利益我是無論如何一定要讓我們團隊能夠順利出發如果到美國去的話"},{"start":11859.241,"end":11882.75,"text":"好 那最後一個問題 因為這個在4月16號發生要罷免我的領銜人在這個新北地檢應訊的時候這一個穿著這個納粹的背章然後拿著這個希特勒的我的奮鬥的書然後甚至還舉這個希特勒這個鏡手裡引起了這個外交事件這是國際醜聞這包含這個以色列駐台代表有個聲明他說這個呢"},{"start":11885.771,"end":11899.577,"text":"這個對於在台灣納稅標誌還有希特勒著作遭公開展示一事表達深切的關切與強烈的譴責然後呢德國在台協會呢也是他說呢這件事情呢是帶有政治目的是一個無恥的行為這兩個聲明呢"},{"start":11903.158,"end":11924.533,"text":"幾乎就是在國民黨的黨主席朱立倫他在第一時間沒有承認說這是一個錯誤的事情反而拿這件事情再來消費民進黨我就看到了不論是德國在台協會或是以色列駐台代表馬上發出了這兩個嚴重的聲明那我再請教一下部長我們台灣民主集結會預定在這個月的月底"},{"start":11925.054,"end":11952.936,"text":"是不是會跟這個德國在台協會還有以色列在台的這個辦事處會共同舉辦一個國際猶太大屠殺紀念日的活動對這個活動我們去年也都有舉辦那個今年也都有外交部也都會支持也有參與副執行長有在場能不能就這個活動再做個說明那尤其在4月16日發生這件事情之後對於我們辦這個活動有什麼樣的影響"},{"start":11954.317,"end":11975.326,"text":"報告委員,我想辦理這樣子一個活動,我們台灣民族基金會是抱持著一個我們緬懷過去,我們不能遺忘過去,同時更重要的是要能夠積極的提倡我們台灣內部,對於這樣子一個在人類歷史上發生過這樣的悲慘的悲劇,這樣子一段歷史要能夠記憶,同時我們也要避免未來悲劇會持續的發生。"},{"start":11977.048,"end":11996.066,"text":"接下來我們會跟以色列駐台北的辦事處還有德國在台協會我們一起來共構這樣子的一個活動屆時也會有國內非常多的先進然後包括我們的總統也都會依照往例都會出席今年也設計了相當多元的一些活動"},{"start":11996.787,"end":12009.632,"text":"那主要的目標還是要提醒我們的公眾在這樣子的一個議題上面基本上它是一個沒有模糊空間我們對於這個人道對於人類歷史我們是應該要能夠正視這個活動是幾號開始辦"},{"start":12012.586,"end":12032.669,"text":"以我這個目前知道是4月23號4月23號辦那這個也有邀請總統來參加就對了那我在想說這件事情發生之後因為以色列跟德國代表處他們都有發出聲明他們有沒有來跟外交部來講這件事情來 部長我們都有保持聯繫所以其實外交部"},{"start":12034.025,"end":12060.291,"text":"在第一時間我在群組裡面而且我對用字譴制我是很慎重就是說外交部對這種以極為不當的方式表達個人意見予以嚴正譴責就是說嚴正譴責這是我想在外交上面是很重的就是我們對這件事情非常的重視而且認為這個是破壞台灣整體的形象"},{"start":12061.031,"end":12085.977,"text":"而且傷害其他國家人民的感情我們不容許這個有模糊的空間這一點我們也希望這個是不幸的事情我說這個包括就是這位這位去用納粹符號跟旗幟去表態的這一位國人我們也希望能夠作為一個負面教材"},{"start":12086.937,"end":12115.331,"text":"一個機會教育一個負面的示範那避免未來再發生我們也必須要就是利用這個事件來告訴國人這件事情是一個歷史的悲劇是人類可以說一個大慘劇我們不能夠把它當作一般的事情好像這個只是在嘲諷或是想要用這個東西去表達抗議這是沒有能夠就是混淆或模糊的空間"},{"start":12115.871,"end":12134.382,"text":"那以色列或是德國代表處有來跟外交部特別提到這件事情嗎?我們亞非斯負責的業務都有跟他們很密切的聯繫尤其最近要舉辦這個所謂國際猶太大屠殺紀念日活動我們很密切的來聯繫我們也會支持跟參與"},{"start":12135.683,"end":12159.883,"text":"好 我就希望說這件事情在當天的這個活動裡面能夠再把它做個說明那我最後也希望說能夠國人跟政府一起攜手努力我們展現台灣是一個就是民主自由尊重人權的國家對世界上不同的文化宗教跟族群要有同理心來實現更美好 更有包容性的未來OK 好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"},{"start":12161.904,"end":12175.278,"text":"謝謝李坤臣委員上台諮詢接下來有鄭天才委員上台諮詢鄭天才委員上台諮詢鄭天才委員上台諮詢鄭天才委員不在以上"},{"start":12177.364,"end":12191.953,"text":"登記實質的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議由林玉君委員提書面質詢請列入登記並刊登公報"},{"start":12192.953,"end":12210.331,"text":"委員書面及口頭諮詢未及答覆部分或要求補充資料者請相關單位以書面與兩周內答覆為另約定期限者從期鎖定本日會議到此結束 散會"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}