{"error":false,"id":["166098"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166098,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166098","日期":"2025-12-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-20-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-03T10:01:49+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-03T10:13:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d5a4ce084af309d6b476ab3cd77fc91509a18256bf6bdfeb7be3e8fe055fbc131a06a885b33e9f7b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴惠員","委員發言時間":"10:01:49 - 10:13:33","會議時間":"2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查本院委員蔡易餘等16人、委員牛煦庭等26人分別擬具「銀行法第一百二十五條及第一百二十五條之四條文修正草案」等2案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.3134687500000002,"end":4.418468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.79409375,"end":4.77284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.16096875,"end":6.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.1353437500000005,"end":9.447218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.73409375,"end":10.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.544093750000002,"end":11.640968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.927843750000001,"end":14.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.762843750000002,"end":17.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.47971875,"end":18.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.01534375,"end":24.12846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.465968750000002,"end":25.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.035343750000003,"end":27.047843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.402218750000003,"end":30.304718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.60846875,"end":40.142843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.41284375,"end":52.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.533468750000004,"end":51.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.752843750000004,"end":51.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.001593750000005,"end":60.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.44346875,"end":79.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.08846875,"end":64.24034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.66846875,"end":78.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.80346875000001,"end":78.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.86659375,"end":87.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.91596875,"end":93.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.25721875,"end":91.74659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.65346875,"end":93.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.67034375,"end":94.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.75471875000001,"end":93.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.80534375,"end":102.98534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.45034375,"end":97.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.17534375000001,"end":104.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.45784375000001,"end":153.23909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.01784375,"end":138.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.08534375000002,"end":138.11909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.11909375000002,"end":138.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.23909375000002,"end":153.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.49221875,"end":153.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.57659375,"end":168.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.59346875,"end":153.66096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.73034375,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.85971875,"end":196.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.28284375,"end":203.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.56034375000002,"end":208.50471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.61034375000003,"end":207.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.94784375,"end":207.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.79159375,"end":214.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.33096875,"end":213.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.05659375000002,"end":214.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.30971875,"end":238.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.72221875000002,"end":220.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.97534375,"end":221.09346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.09346875000003,"end":221.11034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.11034375000003,"end":221.12721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.66034375,"end":245.32596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.56659375,"end":244.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.57909375000003,"end":255.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.28284375,"end":251.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.85596875000002,"end":258.38721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.80909375,"end":270.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.41471875,"end":284.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.15096875,"end":300.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.87846875,"end":327.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.64221875000004,"end":329.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.43096875000003,"end":341.10846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.36159375,"end":342.64409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.88034375,"end":345.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.33971875000003,"end":348.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.97221875,"end":352.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":353.20784375,"end":355.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.33409375,"end":360.41346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.75971875000005,"end":359.18159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.58221875000004,"end":381.03471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.59909375,"end":360.97034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.45471875000004,"end":366.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.47159375,"end":366.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":372.37784375,"end":372.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.42846875000004,"end":372.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.64284375,"end":378.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":378.92534375,"end":379.29659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.68034375,"end":381.20346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.54096875000005,"end":392.17221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.18221875,"end":382.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":392.17221875,"end":408.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":408.55784375,"end":413.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.70971875000004,"end":409.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.54034375000003,"end":414.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.34596875000005,"end":422.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.74596875000003,"end":420.16784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.72034375000004,"end":424.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.20096875,"end":431.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":432.18284375,"end":435.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.89534375000005,"end":452.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.98971875,"end":475.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.52659375,"end":473.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.27721875000003,"end":488.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.59596875000005,"end":488.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.08534375000005,"end":547.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.0434687500001,"end":541.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.16909375,"end":558.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.8984687500001,"end":551.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":555.8259687500001,"end":556.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":559.0828437499999,"end":564.2803437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.7534687500001,"end":561.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":563.1159687500001,"end":566.3390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":564.9384687500001,"end":575.7722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.6128437500001,"end":570.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":576.2109687500001,"end":583.1297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.88534375,"end":581.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":582.1003437500001,"end":582.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":583.2140937500001,"end":597.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.3953437499999,"end":584.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.1147187500001,"end":599.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":600.03846875,"end":625.6884687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.8572187500001,"end":630.0928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":630.6328437500001,"end":632.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.64096875,"end":638.5303437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.08784375,"end":635.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":638.6653437500001,"end":652.90784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":643.81221875,"end":644.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.30096875,"end":648.55409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.0053437500001,"end":650.2922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.3003437500001,"end":655.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":655.32096875,"end":668.2978437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":656.83971875,"end":657.0928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":668.53409375,"end":670.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.0147187500002,"end":671.2847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.4365937500002,"end":683.70471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":681.59534375,"end":682.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.29971875,"end":693.6440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.0747187500001,"end":692.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.15909375,"end":692.1928437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.1928437500001,"end":692.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":692.26034375,"end":692.7665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.7665937500001,"end":693.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.42471875,"end":693.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.7747187500001,"end":700.84971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.329,"end":25.151,"text":"謝謝主席有請金管會潘主委還有銀行局銅局長委員早安是 主委早安主委針對今天銀行法第125條的修正草案基本上就是現行的法案將惡性的一個吸金跟地下匯兌混在同一個"},{"start":26.552,"end":47.722,"text":"處罰上面導致就是說在司法上的這個法官在那個現實的這個案例上我們常常覺得就是說地下會對的行為罪不至於而輕判讓真正年代的就是侵吞民眾的血汗錢的這些吸金的詐騙集團難以獲得應有的這一個重處所以"},{"start":53.064,"end":79.441,"text":"我不知道就是說主委站在今天的一個修法裡頭你看到了就是說蔡議委員還是牛喜廷委員他們兩個其實是有截然不同的一個思維喔那一個是就是他是把兩個那個地下會隊跟那個惡性細菌是擺在一塊的同一個法條上面的一個是把他就是分開的那我覺得我想聽聽你的一個看法"},{"start":79.941,"end":106.13,"text":"是 我剛才在書面報告跟口頭報告也就說明了其實我們銀行法本來就對違法匯兌跟違法吸金有分雙層次的處罰一個就是在一定金額以下的時候是三年 十年以下然後超過一億以上的時候是七年以上我想這個本來就是刑務已經做了這個刑期上已經就說你的危害重大的我就重大"},{"start":106.67,"end":128.616,"text":"那這次委員的提案裡面呢是把那個對於那個就是一億以上改成實質所得這也是我們最近就是我們也是比較擔心像比如我們現在打詐專法裡面很多時候車手他說我去領那個些錢我只是拿點手續費所以那個金額就比較小所以這次我們要把它調整成是以犯罪所得而不是以你的實質所得"},{"start":129.236,"end":152.937,"text":"那我想說這個就是我們在包括銀行法在司法的見解上已經非常明確了就是它還是以總額來看所以這是我們會建議說還是維持現有的方式剛剛也有委員關心就是說那假設我們詐騙很嚴重是否該把那個七年以上或者怎麼再把它提高這個社會可以討論剛剛我們其實法務部代表有提到就是這要跟所有的刑度來做一個橫頻的考量"},{"start":153.277,"end":166.89,"text":"好 卓偉我們看到你的態度啦那就是說另外再有一個議題就是說每一天的這個股市的交易量已經都是接近甚至就是說常常就是快要接近這個五千億的當日"},{"start":168.912,"end":196.692,"text":"那这个金融那个内控有没有失灵那个开户的一个瑕疵跟人头的一个代钞这些问题其实我们看到了就是说因为我们有很多父母是要帮孩子节税所以他帮孩子开户投资ETF还是说这个我们纳称他就是广称他是儿童股民那目前就有27万户这个是儿童股民"},{"start":197.392,"end":220.382,"text":"那公然的人頭戶代鈔在金管會的眼裡這個是不是一個正常嗎這個牽涉到就是前陣子你大概也熱議就是說未成年開戶這部分我想我簡短的請銀行局跟我們政經局局長給委員做一個簡單的回覆好 謝謝好 報告委員那個未成年開戶這個是回歸到民法上面的規定不管是限制行為能力還是無行為能力"},{"start":221.022,"end":237.905,"text":"我們銀行在辦理開戶的時候都會依照民法相關的規定去徵提他的這個法定代理人相關的資料那至於開戶之後相關帳戶的金流就是回歸到一般的管控程序不管是日常的強化EDD的這個程序銀行都還是要照做"},{"start":239.017,"end":257.879,"text":"好 謝謝局長我想好 OK 可以了那我還是回來請教主委主委我想銀行審查是不是有漏洞我們用20年前喬治馬利卡這一個事件造成了重大的一個金融的一個議題那相對的就是說"},{"start":259.18,"end":281.53,"text":"現有的這些金融機構他發行的信用卡可是有效的卡數我們可以看得到就是說大概集中在五成六成甚至還有第四成以下那這樣子的一個狀況那我今天要跟你探討的就是說這個銀行的一個開戶有沒有一些什麼樣的一個缺失那是不是會過寬過鬆還是過嚴"},{"start":285.651,"end":299.844,"text":"這個在後面後面我們再來提到就是說這個一些就是警示戶的一個問題那我用最新的一個開戶審查的一個指引裡頭來跟那個主委做一個探討就是說我們"},{"start":300.965,"end":320.921,"text":"前前後後就是說要拿到一張金融卡他可能就是說初次一個開卡那初次的一個就是辦卡的一個程序裡頭他一般戶那個時間建議是抓保守的一個小時我想如果是一個小時的話沒有人要跟你開戶了"},{"start":322.762,"end":327.384,"text":"這個是有點我們助理是寫的因為他們年輕人他們認為就是說要重演那事實上就是說整個證件跟查詢跟填寫這個申請書還有零零總總就是說刪證件還有拍照還有就是說金融卡的一個申請那這裡頭你認為這樣子的開戶審查"},{"start":346.47,"end":359.439,"text":"這個合理嗎有沒有需要改進的地方我問我個人的話待會可以請銀行局長跟我們簡單回覆其實我們自從我們上次因為那個反洗錢的規定以後我們走國際的標準"},{"start":361.22,"end":380.967,"text":"這很多的流程不是銀行這邊的資料他必須做很多的查證所以很多人他們也做好的宣導就是說實際上你真的要開戶的時候確實是需要這麼久的一個時間而且他們也都採用預約的方式盡量減少我們客戶的等待時間我想現在實務這樣做我想這個必要性我請銀行局長簡單回覆一下"},{"start":381.647,"end":407.583,"text":"局長這有很多的規定沒有執行還是就是在執行的過程裡頭有很多的瑕疵這一個是不是應該我們需要改善的是 各位委員包括在開戶的過程裡面銀行都會訂相關的規定沒有錯但最主要的精神還是回歸到RBA就是說他會看看客戶自己本身的風險屬性會施以不同的徵信調查結果舉個例子來講如果在開戶的過程當中他是新轉戶"},{"start":408.604,"end":423.772,"text":"那可能這個整個開戶的程序就會很便捷因為本身公司那需要用到一個小時嗎如果是新轉戶的話應該是不用因為他本身就已經公司就已經有跟銀行往來那他拿出這個資源的一個那如果完全就是一個新的呢"},{"start":424.272,"end":452.504,"text":"如果是一個新的話在銀行現在的納客政策裡面他會去做分層的一個管理比方說他有沒有地緣性他是不是就在附近的戶籍或者是他是學生背景等等他會依照這個客戶不同的屬性施予不同的一個徵信調查的一個結果但重點還是在於當他變成是銀行的客戶之後他在日常的作業當中怎麼去強化比方說像金流異常這個時候他就必須要啟動相關強化的審查程序"},{"start":453.084,"end":475.542,"text":"所以你認為就是說我們整個開戶的審查其實基本上是真的是落實的而不是說家住在就是說有一些是家住在這個開戶人的一個身上有一些就是說因為我們為了要衝這個那個業務量我們要衝這個數字結果我們把它清放了所以你認為是四平八穩沒有問題"},{"start":476.623,"end":498.645,"text":"目前來講法規有但執行面我不敢講說百分之百所有的行員他都有去落實這個也就是為什麼我們要透過經檢跟三道防線來去督導的一個制度好那就是針對著最近這個一萬塊普花現金一萬塊衍生出來很多的一個禁止戶跟警示戶的這一個問題"},{"start":500.006,"end":521.831,"text":"那這個卡來卡去的時候那有很多管制的措施到底是有銀行裡頭就是說他開了戶他一個月沒有用我們就把它取消掉有一些是六個月那這樣子多久沒有使用的一個管制措施當然就是說每一個銀行他的標準不一"},{"start":522.731,"end":546.628,"text":"那可是如果是禁止戶的話那萬一就是說禁止戶被鎖了變成警示戶的話那那個金管會你有講嘛你就說盡量要讓我們的國民趕快拿到這個現金一萬塊那你覺得這個禁止戶跟那個警示戶的一個問題到底出在哪裡"},{"start":547.368,"end":568.742,"text":"其實剛剛委員提到禁止戶跟警示戶應該是截然不同的概念因為警示戶是被有人去報警說這個帳戶用來詐騙有檢調單位通知銀行說這個把它凍結掉這是一個有犯罪疑義第三方的一個協賬禁止戶就是說他今天一個戶很久很久沒有動了"},{"start":569.642,"end":598.818,"text":"这件事情银行做了一些的比如说辅助的管控措施这个并不是说你这个就完全怎么样那是警示账户的发动权不是在银行是在于我们减掉单位减减掉的单位的发动所以这个不太一样我当然知道是不太一样那就是说主委现在就是说因为这个禁止户跟警示户造成民验非常地深所以我是不是要其实我希望的就是说这个到底有"},{"start":600.103,"end":625.399,"text":"有沒有其他的一個解決的方式像是線上的一個解鎖還是數位的一個確認不要每一次就是說你被造成了很大的一個民厭的時候就是說你隨時你被通知你是警示戶的時候還是就是說禁止戶的時候你都要再跑到銀行去然後拿著雙證件然後去解碼有沒有更好的一個服務方式"},{"start":626.065,"end":654.727,"text":"其實跟委員報告就上次因為我們在前一陣子的話有一兩家銀行他的所控產生社會上很多民怨我們就立刻就請他開始要做一些改善措施我想最近他們也大概都已經在落實做這個比如說他提供24小時的線上服務就是說怎麼用最簡便的方法去解控這些事情除非特別需要才到現場來這些部分我們都在精進中所以我們也看到所以我們在行政程序上我們一直在精簡"},{"start":656.168,"end":670.624,"text":"當然當然這部分我們會持續的要求因為這部分我們也會隨時關注這些民怨的反應我們會及時的跟銀行做那個及時的這些的這個所謂的監理的提醒跟管控"},{"start":671.044,"end":691.555,"text":"好 那就是說我們其實對於這個就是對帳戶應該是有管制那我們也希望就是有管理有更方便的一個管理方式不會造成民怨這麼深是 我們也在全力的希望在打詐的這個強烈要求跟民怨之間降低民怨取得一個最好的平衡好 謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":695.869,"end":699.838,"text":"謝謝賴委員 謝謝彭主委接下來有請林昭偉市民委員質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}