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安諾在警政署十月份的時候公布我們上半年對於全國人民對於治安滿意度的狀況調查中顯示出國人對於在住家或社區附近各縣市的治安滿意度是高的但是卻對於全國整體治安只有51%的滿意度"},{"start":34.788,"end":61.814,"text":"這個形成很強烈的對比也就是說到我家附近我都覺得很安全但是對於全國治安不滿意度這個比例非常懸殊那我們探究的原因最重要的因素不同於過去黑幫槍械或毒品犯罪或詐騙其實是直接威脅到全國人民感受最深的覺得台灣治安不好它只有五成一的滿意度"},{"start":63.354,"end":78.401,"text":"雖然我們政府無論警政署無論金管會這邊我們丟出各項工具我們都努力的打仗但是從目前的成效來看大家國人對於打仗的成效其實大家還是不滿意的"},{"start":79.232,"end":94.363,"text":"那我覺得最糟糕的是大部分被詐騙民眾被詐騙了之後錢拿不回來這個是最主要原因因為很多人問我說錢拿不拿的回來我都只能很抱歉的跟他講說我覺得有一定的困難度"},{"start":95.423,"end":123.07,"text":"那個時間一超過車手一轉出去之後錢幾乎是回不來了所以銀行局我們底下做了很多的努力包括很多經濟的措施包括零貴的關懷包括阻攔非法的金流我們做了很多的努力但是在這一塊我想先請問主委你對於目前打炸的方向你個人滿不滿意你可以自己打幾分在金管會的部分"},{"start":123.769,"end":141.075,"text":"我覺得打炸就是我當然不滿意因為主要是這個還是非常的多但是呢我們因為冰冷的數字沒辦法對國人有相同的感受是 主委你講對了因為我今天問題很多你不滿意國人也不滿意那當然"},{"start":142.976,"end":160.047,"text":"錢拿不回來最主要原因但是我們更擔心的是你很多的靈慧關懷去攔阻非法的金流很多人也擔心說被騙的錢拿不回來但是沒被騙的帳戶被凍結這個是我相信很多委員都在現場跟"},{"start":161.668,"end":173.582,"text":"主委溝通過的很多民眾就對於打詐失去信心被騙了拿不回來我真的有要啟用的時候我被攔截而且解凍還要花一段時間這才是最麻煩的"},{"start":176.305,"end":199.094,"text":"就是說金融業在零貴關懷的部分做過了頭沒有一個更清楚的標示跟標準有時候馬上要急用的反而花了好幾個鐘頭甚至一天的時間他才可以解凍這個是現在我們所聽到在基層跟我們澄清的方向那當然我們在上個月11月15號我們金融業防詐的措施"},{"start":200.054,"end":227.406,"text":"主委你宣布了有幾個三大重點我們要以AI防制以精準為目標服務不中斷申訴要迅速阻詐要徹底聯防要到位剛才主委已經說對於目前的成效是不滿意的我這邊接受到的成績除了我剛講的之外人工的複合流程有時候要達到一天到兩天這個就對於很多急用的人"},{"start":228.393,"end":252.829,"text":"他也求助無門有些人還會找上我們幫他證明說這個真的是誰誰誰找他家人一起來身份證一起確認有些人他不認識任何人他真的有急用家裡有緊急傷臟住院還是繳什麼費用的時候真的無從去解決沒有辦法去找到一個平衡點所以主委我要提醒你就是說我們現在AI造成的帳戶誤動的現況它不是偶發性的"},{"start":257.079,"end":279.677,"text":"如果從我這邊聽到還有很多委員不同黨派大家都在這邊澄清我們就可以關注到那個AI的錯誤它有可能是呈現結構性的偏誤所以我們現在有四種AI結構會造成偏誤的狀況包括高齡者跟小兒戶很多高齡的長輩他通常是現金交易轉帳的頻率低可是他"},{"start":280.558,"end":306.763,"text":"突然轉帳就會被視為是異常有這個需求 他就變成異常零工族跟平台族他的收入不穩定 很多元那他會被容易判斷是可疑的金流跨區就學者或家庭的支持者經常因為進行跨縣市的匯款他時間不固定所以會被認為是人頭帳戶會被認為是警示帳戶所以他臨櫃的時候有時候都會接到電話"},{"start":308.163,"end":324.236,"text":"被關注到這會變成他們的困擾包括受補助或零貴資金入帳的時候因為帳戶很長時間沒有動用那突然有補助或親人入帳可能會觸發中型敏感的那個警示出現所以"},{"start":325.225,"end":350.893,"text":"主委就是說我們這樣的系統的問題偏誤是背離我們普惠金融的要求我想主委你非常清楚知道我在說什麼所以未來AI的訓練其實是非常重要的其實AI是可以透過訓練的那我們AI當然也可以評估做風險高低的評估區分譬如說限額轉帳他轉帳只有低以下的金額你不要花那麼多的"},{"start":351.793,"end":360.198,"text":"利器 我不應該這麼說就是你應該去區分我如果只是局部的凍結或限額的轉帳跟全部凍結它應該要有不同層次的管控才對我如果只是限額的或局部的轉帳你應該跟全部大量的轉帳你應該有不同層次的管控跟管理才對"},{"start":373.766,"end":399.713,"text":"而不是同一個標準警察派出所同仁也來然後兩三個人都圍著那些那只是幾萬塊的轉賬只是他面臨這四種不同的狀況所以主委我們在這一塊達到普惠金融的目的我覺得這一塊應該勢必要調整面對民眾的陳情那第一時間到底多快可以解凍我們排除了所有的問題之後"},{"start":401.073,"end":422.746,"text":"我們可不可以要求第一時間可以再多快解凍我覺得這個應該要更明確告訴我們金融業者主委你怎麼解決這些問題其實謝謝委員給我這個時間說明剛剛委員說我滿不滿意打詐騙消失之前我想政府官員沒有滿意的空間這是一個我們一定要做的"},{"start":423.578,"end":439.663,"text":"但是就是說我們不可諱言就是在主詐過程當中一定會有一個學習的過程剛才那個委員有提到但是被誤控的民眾的感受我想是特別強烈的但是我們我在這邊還要再講一次"},{"start":440.933,"end":461.047,"text":"我們政策上可以大家來討論批評但是我覺得在第一線的打炸的負責第一線的這些同胞包該委員提到在現場去主炸的員警跟航員我們都要全力的支持當然支持 但是我再提醒問題出在哪裡你要有不同層次的管控"},{"start":461.787,"end":484.159,"text":"其實我們在做的時候剛才第一波在採用的時候確實我覺得他們在學習的過程當中做得不好我們也把銀行找來特別特別的跟他們講了很多所以他們開始提出很多很多的管控我想最近應該是應該又有所改變我們也不可諱言的就是說我們做這樣的管控以後確實警示帳戶從這麼長遠來那個角度來看開始"},{"start":488.381,"end":508.98,"text":"減緩甚至下降我想這件事情就是一個明顯的過去這麼長久來警示賬戶都一直直線的上升我想這部分是努力但是我覺得這個成本如果說要由這些比如說剛剛委員提醒的這部分我們一定會來精進這個方法方向不變方法一定要調整我想這部分一定是我們在什麼時候可以有"},{"start":509.841,"end":528.668,"text":"不同的 方向不變我支持 當然方向不變因為我們要打仗 我們要阻斷金流但是 方法如何去做調整AI如何更精進的去做更多不同的訓練因為AI可以訓練嘛你有可以不同層次的管制措施我們的林桂官我也都支持 我覺得大家都很辛苦"},{"start":529.388,"end":552.632,"text":"但是你要趕快去有不同的標準趕快去有一個標準實施教育告訴金融業者我們針對不同的層次我們要怎麼去加強這個幾乎是我們同仁每天每天的工作每天都要跟這些因為我們會接到各式各樣的陳情我們也要去處理我們會跟銀行幹任何一個悟空的個案都成為很好學習的教材我想這部分我們會不斷的方法來進行"},{"start":552.952,"end":580.695,"text":"你刚讲教材主委我相信你知道这是教材那你也了解但是第一线知不知道包括AI人文训练林贵的金融业者第一线也了不了解这些事情我们听到的抱怨太多主委我不是在跟你吵架我是把问题让你知道那这个问题已经存在很久也不是我李燕秀一个人在这边质询过一定有别人跟你沟通过真正需要用钱在第一时间有紧急用的时候往往解冻的时间"},{"start":581.636,"end":605.318,"text":"不是幾個小時有時候到一兩天他變成要去跟別人借錢要跟別人臉皮很薄要去跟別人開口跟里長借錢所以這個是造成不便的原因這我們完全體會所以主委我今天要的就是說你多久時間可以把這些現況我不敢邀請說你一步到位達到我的要求但是你至少可以有層次的告訴我"},{"start":606.619,"end":620.668,"text":"在管制措施上你會趕快去做多少時間會做當然你或許不能打擾我百分之百的目的其實這是跟委員講這是我們日常在做的而且我們也不斷在優化在請他們在做我最後想講一下就是說"},{"start":621.926,"end":640.984,"text":"在主詐過程當中就像比如說我們真的被成功主詐了通常聲音很小但是呢比如說他認為誤控了聲音就會很大這是我們面對的壓力包括剪調有跟我們講說很多詐團員詐團員會利用這個輿論來主銷我覺得我都知道身為政務官 身為政府其實人民的要求永遠是"},{"start":642.605,"end":666.951,"text":"所以我剛才講說這些東西我們都應該要知道我只是說我們更要冷靜的去處理這個問題主委我還是要要求一個時間對我來說因為我把民意反映出來我其實比委員還急我知道那什麼時候可以看到進一步的改善給你一個書面的回應給我們可以沒問題我就把我們最近的改善的措施或怎麼樣我再給"},{"start":668.151,"end":676.716,"text":"很具體的我希望我下一次再問的時候這些問題可以有做層次方面的改善具體的回應具體的改善謝謝委員的關心謝謝李燕燊委員接下來請嚴寬衡委員質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}