{"error":false,"id":["166233"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166233,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166233","日期":"2025-12-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-19-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-08T11:49:45+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-08T11:55:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:31","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e238918248e277b332d5827612c5763846ee6dd7c9e9cb529da9d853841b9c5b74a0a456827cbec75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"11:49:45 - 11:55:16","會議時間":"2025-12-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：審查： \n一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員陳亭妃等19人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查) (詢答及處理)\n【12月8日及10日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.78596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.61596875,"end":11.10096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.35409375,"end":13.193468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.10471875,"end":32.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.83034375,"end":15.336593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":32.970968750000004,"end":33.291593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.94971875,"end":51.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.86409375,"end":42.235343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.92721875,"end":43.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.260343750000004,"end":45.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.58909375,"end":47.820968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.02346875,"end":52.562843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.66846875,"end":56.10659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.946593750000005,"end":57.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.60846875,"end":76.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.18971875,"end":64.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.14971875,"end":142.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":80.44034375000001,"end":81.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.55784375,"end":85.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.81346875000001,"end":96.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.08596875,"end":107.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.87909375000001,"end":108.23346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.02596875,"end":113.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.05971875,"end":113.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.70909375000002,"end":162.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.67221875,"end":163.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.68471875,"end":165.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.67159375,"end":169.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.23221875000002,"end":202.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.58596875,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.98159375,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":208.06596875000002,"end":208.18409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.76596875,"end":211.06971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.38346875000002,"end":228.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":231.03284375,"end":231.13409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.23846875,"end":238.57596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":239.31846875000002,"end":241.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.05659375000002,"end":241.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.16159375,"end":251.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.57846875,"end":249.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.76409375000003,"end":249.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.65409375000002,"end":255.68721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.48909375000002,"end":254.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.85596875000002,"end":263.19659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.44971875000005,"end":271.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.76909375,"end":278.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":278.80596875000003,"end":286.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":284.34096875,"end":302.54909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.56596875,"end":306.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.25721875,"end":307.84784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.51034375,"end":308.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.72096875,"end":313.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.22659375,"end":315.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.81284375,"end":322.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.45784375,"end":319.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.63034375,"end":324.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.66409375,"end":322.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.90034375000005,"end":322.96784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.22909375,"end":330.24096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.15221875000003,"end":332.58659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.083,"end":11.577,"text":"現在請郭國文委員質詢謝謝主席 有請陳部長陳部長就在那邊等我們來 陳部長"},{"start":14.161,"end":32.993,"text":"部長我剛剛聽到跟那個蔡議委員的這個答詢當中就是有關於我們這個老容津貼的這一個部分的排付條款的部分事實上之前兩年多前本席提案的時候就說後來顧慮到跟其他的社福津貼八大津貼掛鉤在一起不想要單獨處理聽起來是不是已經脫鉤了是不是"},{"start":34.528,"end":56.577,"text":"我跟委員報告就是之前委員也有一些建議嘛然後還有就是我們也根據一些委員的建議設計的版本我們已經送到行政院去的所以說你們是打算脫鉤處理沒有 我們是希望脫鉤啦脫鉤處理嘛行政院一直沒有進到應該要脫鉤早早就要脫鉤掛鉤其實是沒有道理的嘛因為行政院一直沒有排到院位其實還沒考量就是要跟八大涉糊那個整個"},{"start":58.157,"end":76.245,"text":"時代的轉變那個門檻越來越嚴格當初我就換算那個整個物價指數等等加起來應該要提高到800萬了沒關係這個態度有轉變是重要的條文內容以後再討論那今天我們在討論這個農民退休金條例的這個部分"},{"start":77.245,"end":100.112,"text":"在之前我們委員會其實就已經有所討論了我當初的主張就是在從1比1變成1比1.5就這一次您提出來的這個方案當中40比60在倍數上是有呼吻本席的這一個說法但是就總額的部分還是有落差因為你總額沒有增加也就是說你一樣是用29500的這個部分2乘以2"},{"start":105.174,"end":132.87,"text":"然后再把它切成四六笔的这个概念基本上你会影响到最终的这个所得替代额的部分比如说你没有管替代率你变成一个总额把它框架住但是你没有管未来的所得替代率是否能够增加所得替代率你没有增加的情况底下你基本上你的社会安全体系就没有办法强化这第一点本席要跟你说明了第二个呢从十月份最新的数字当中我们这一个"},{"start":134.53,"end":161.917,"text":"預計這個投保的人數加總起來大概只有八萬九千人也就是不到三成啊青龍的部分大概只有25%那過往呢其實就我們一直在argue說為什麼比例這麼低原因就是那個誘因的問題啊這誘因有兩種嘛一種是什麼你的這一個提撥金額嘛一種是你的給付金額嘛那你現在的這個方案只有提撥優惠但是給付社會安全法中都沒有嘛主委"},{"start":162.959,"end":164.929,"text":"部長 我意思是說你這個有盲點啊"},{"start":166.881,"end":192.841,"text":"我跟委員報告 第一個部分就是您剛才講的就是說最後30年後到的時候我們會每一年都會隨著基本公司的調整然後如果說用1比1.5的時候我們試算過了就是說未來農民的部分大概一個月可以領到4萬5左右那我們也考量多說當我們送進行政院的時候一定會跟其他的社福基金相比那一般勞保的部分大概只有3萬3所以"},{"start":194.882,"end":211.696,"text":"那個通過性的機會比較比較比較小啦所以我們才會設計6比4然後增加一些其他的誘因那個你跟老闆比較你們當然會跟老闆比較但是時間性的那個時間相對不一樣啊因為我們這個執行的時間相對比較短嘛那為何以後拉長的時間的變數比較大"},{"start":213.638,"end":225.344,"text":"更何況你所說的這個30年也不容易有30年齡為什麼因為這些95%的部分大部分都是屬於這一個40到64歲你如果現在60歲 50歲你是怎麼可能再做30年那是不可能的事情 對不對"},{"start":230.926,"end":255.329,"text":"部長 所以說你這個30年的這個估計方式基本上就有前提上的一個誤判就是鼓勵親農 我們鼓勵親農就是有一個誤判嘛所以說你不可能所得替代率會那麼高嘛你跟其他的勞保的部分來做比較勞保的部分兩種加總起來他還有勞退的部分他不當當加起來也不只如此啊所以我是覺得"},{"start":256.03,"end":280.171,"text":"那個部長 你這個部分真的要再重新思考清楚第一個呢 前面的部分呢整個社會安全網的強化不夠那你沒有從幾副觀念 你只有從提撥的概念可是呢 就30年的計算方式 你又不死所以說你會變成這個所得替代率不足的情況底下而社會安全網不夠啦我請那個部長再回去思考一下我想我們會從不同的年齡"},{"start":281.332,"end":308.438,"text":"投保的年齡有沒有 我們另外算出一個他可以領的部分對 集聚的部分我們再來做分析不是他們不當當全部弄起來而且還有一個就龜丹溫泉的最近有一個1.2億你們林業署的這個燃沙壩花了1.2億還有覆潑設施本來是用來做農業的灌溉還有包括土地的流失啊最近說要把它拆掉啦這是什麼一回事啊這個已經取消施作了喔什麼 已經施作了"},{"start":309.858,"end":329.349,"text":"跟委員報告那個我們那天開說明會完之後那因為那個民眾他們里長他們的那個意見我們都非常尊重對你們要尊重嘛對好不容易花了1.21才沒多久而已那整個南溪龜灘那邊的農民都在反彈啊取消就好了謝謝謝謝郭國文委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}