{"error":false,"id":["166235"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166235,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166235","日期":"2025-12-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-08T11:29:44+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-08T11:38:49+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e238918248e277b3f4bdaeede0058f0cb5dd3a7969bdec96955b66d75a5d5968a3edfb217b8fd1275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"11:29:44 - 11:38:49","會議時間":"2025-12-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查一、委員羅智強等55人、二、台灣民眾黨黨團及三、委員翁曉玲等24人分別擬具「衛星廣播電視法部分條文修正草案」案、四、委員陳雪生等23人及五、委員傅崐萁等24人分別擬具「衛星廣播電視法第五條條文修正草案」案、六、委員葉元之等22人擬具「衛星廣播電視法第十一條條文修正草案」案、七、委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「衛星廣播電視法刪除第五十條條文草案」案、八、委員許智傑等27人及九、委員洪孟楷等22人分別擬具「衛星廣播電視法第六十四條條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【12月8日及10日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.11909375,"end":5.464718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.58284375,"end":6.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.067218750000002,"end":11.084093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.084093750000001,"end":11.759093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.759093750000002,"end":11.792843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.792843750000003,"end":11.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.84346875,"end":11.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.87721875,"end":11.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.89409375,"end":11.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.231593750000002,"end":24.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.10721875,"end":30.675968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.81096875,"end":36.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.15596875,"end":39.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.501593750000005,"end":40.125968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.49721875,"end":41.189093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.47596875,"end":42.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.94409375,"end":50.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.470343750000005,"end":72.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.49221875,"end":104.08221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.04409375,"end":107.49096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.60471875,"end":111.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.31721875000001,"end":117.12659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.44721875,"end":121.37909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.78409375000001,"end":140.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.62096875,"end":149.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.31971875000002,"end":176.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.12159375000002,"end":186.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.00596875000002,"end":190.04346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.34721875000002,"end":194.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.00471875000002,"end":196.65846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.11409375000002,"end":198.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.83096875,"end":200.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.99971875,"end":204.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.23096875000002,"end":206.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.51346875000002,"end":214.32659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.03971875000002,"end":222.37596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":223.43909375,"end":225.86909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.47284375,"end":242.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.76096875000002,"end":252.80159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.56096875000003,"end":284.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.61534375,"end":288.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.57659375000003,"end":295.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.68096875000003,"end":300.30471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.30471875,"end":305.80596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.00471875,"end":314.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.21909375,"end":308.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.76659375,"end":315.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.91409375,"end":319.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.04846875000004,"end":329.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.38034375,"end":332.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.80596875000003,"end":333.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.78471875,"end":351.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.46971875,"end":352.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.10659375,"end":354.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.33846875,"end":365.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.74346875000003,"end":355.55346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.07659375000003,"end":356.29596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.62784375,"end":370.50471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.79159375,"end":398.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.35284375000003,"end":398.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.02346875,"end":400.17096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.30596875000003,"end":402.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.09471875,"end":406.98846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.51159375000003,"end":424.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.89721875000004,"end":431.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.49096875000004,"end":464.46471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.19034375,"end":472.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.95284375000006,"end":491.39721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.40159375,"end":492.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.69659375000003,"end":496.45971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.15596875000006,"end":502.90596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.20971875000004,"end":506.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":506.83784375000005,"end":509.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":507.59721875,"end":508.00221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.66034375000004,"end":525.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.5984687499999,"end":533.4665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.8547187500001,"end":540.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.88346875,"end":540.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":542.0559687500001,"end":544.36784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.3172187499999,"end":545.7178437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":544.9753437500001,"end":545.8528437500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.764,"end":6.428,"text":"謝謝主席 再有請陳代理主委陳代理主委請"},{"start":11.286,"end":34.283,"text":"委員好主委好所以今天委員會排審衛星廣播電視法的修正案超越委員共同都提出了多個版本顯示一個共同的焦慮我們的廣電監理制度已經到了不得不修的地步了那本席今天也引用學界今年座談會的研討內容以及各政黨團的修法重點就叫足為幾個核心的問題首先針對換照制度還有執照的期限"},{"start":37.265,"end":54.574,"text":"主委NCC總是宣稱換照是為了把關內容品質但學者林立宇前NCC委員他在論壇上公開承認NCC的審查標準不明確那目前最大的問題是什麼就是好壞都是由NCC說了算"},{"start":55.895,"end":71.65,"text":"當評鑑的標準充滿主觀的內控機制還有營運計畫執行情形等字眼的時候換照就變成讓媒體聽話的緊箍咒那NCC想砍向誰就砍向誰那如果前委員都覺得標準像迷霧的話那請主委說明業者要如何適從呢"},{"start":72.8,"end":92.048,"text":"看完報告其實我們重大的案件深色評鑑換照其實都前置程序委員會議之前有專家協助還有公民團體的組成的諮詢會議來審議其實這意見是多元來呈現來把關的那重大的案件根據我們組織法還可以舉行聽證會"},{"start":94.249,"end":121.361,"text":"大家關心的就是個案上的其實當初也有舉行過聽證會其實就是說並不是NCC委員會自己門關起來就來做決定其實都有參採多元的意見來處理所以您說多元意見嗎那許多學者都批評你們的審查不透明然後理由也讓業者困惑的時候你們還是要堅持現行的換照機制嗎那這樣子專業的監理嗎還是為了保有生殺大權呢"},{"start":122.266,"end":149.703,"text":"沒有就當初其實NCC本身也是這個依法行政當初的立法的制度賦予NCC在這個框架上來執行那我們就是依法行政來純粹是來處理那當然這個衛廣法18條本身的換照也有規定一些程序那對這次的修法那許多委員都主張將執照換成永久有效嘛還有自動續照那除非有重大違法才撤照或是審查那您的態度是"},{"start":150.636,"end":172.453,"text":"我的看法就是其實委員提案版本有七年的也有九年的也有無窮期的那剛剛其他委員有提到其實各國的環境不一樣那台灣有台灣自己的這個當初立法的歷史脈絡那大家的各個國情不一樣那當初既然我們的衛廣法是長成這樣子一定有當初大家"},{"start":173.053,"end":197.495,"text":"社會各界的共同共識的一個期待的一個方式我們一直在討論審查嘛除了這個審查的迷霧之外還缺乏退場機制的問題那文化大學的柯智順副教授也指出問題在於進場容易他的進場他進場容易可是他後門緊閉缺乏缺乏合理的退場機制那讓換照變成唯一的你們的一個武器嘛那主委那針對這個問題"},{"start":200.738,"end":222.108,"text":"剛剛報告我剛剛聽到主委您報告說您有提到平埔是稀有的資源沒錯吧對那是五廣法裡頭會用到無限電比例那是稀有資源所以一般而言是五廣那邊的管制密度會比較高一點所以主委您也提到公益性嘛那您一直拿這個公益性來當擋箭牌如果現行的換照制度真的有效那為什麼行政院多次判決NCC在中天"},{"start":224.068,"end":242.214,"text":"跟我們報告26件處分裡頭其實很多目前NCC敗訴是7件26件只敗訴7件其實這比例並不是這個這個某些媒體這個重複算不同審計的結果的那種結果是不一樣的"},{"start":242.956,"end":252.241,"text":"其實本席的問題很簡單就是如果你們沒有辦法提出一套量化然後還有客觀不看顏色的審查標準那立法院為什麼要給你們每六年一次的看守媒體的權利"},{"start":254.281,"end":282.961,"text":"各位報告剛剛提到退場機制其實我們NCC過往其實這方面願意申請這個微信頻道目前微信頻道總共有298家願意來申請的其實如果市場的力量可以決定他要不要繼續在這個這個場域裡頭這個賽道裡頭繼續玩下去其實有些過往也有一些新聞台他申請到了可是他沒有露出的平台他後來自己他也繳為執照他也不要了所以其實NCC是開放的"},{"start":283.781,"end":295.072,"text":"主委您認為今天委員所提出的版本這些版本的內容是完善的嗎我覺得都有可取之處但是都有觀察關注比較沒有關注到的一個面向"},{"start":295.748,"end":319.25,"text":"那NCC會不會也提出一個自己的版本然後再送進來委員會我們希望可以但是因為我們目前沒有委員會所以行政院的版本是沒辦法您都會提到委員人數不足的問題難道你們就不用再回去然後也自己提出一個版本嗎什麼都要等到委員數足了之後才來做嗎跟委員報告官方的對案我們是沒有但是我們幕僚座位其實都準備好了"},{"start":320.1,"end":342.657,"text":"好 那主委我們再來討論那針對媒體金流移植的問題我們一直在盯著誰持有媒體股份卻忽略了金流才是真正的控制者那學者有痛批首長的新聞幾乎都是買來的那師大的一名鍾啟輝教授也指出這是尋逐型的正媒關係那現在政府不必違法去投資媒體只要通過龐大的宣傳標案就能讓媒體變乖"},{"start":343.738,"end":370.291,"text":"那我們也看到這次黨團還有委員有提出修正案的版本要求強制揭露政府採購補助還有廣告的收入這可能都是切中要害的災壓劑那主委剛剛也有委員提到那NCC整天查黨政軍一股都不能持有那對於政府一年砸了十幾億的預算給特定的電視台做廣編還有宣導甚至新聞置入NCC你們自己本身有沒有掌握"},{"start":371.454,"end":398.589,"text":"坑委報告分兩個部分政府的標案相關政府他是用採購法他依循採購法那他標案給新聞媒體新聞媒體本身其實就是政府就是預算法62條之一其實有已經有規範白話來講簡單來講是說某家電視台他受政府他接到政府的標案那某個政府他必須在那個政府的官網揭露說我我我我對誰補責所以NCC都有掌握什麼這個"},{"start":401.151,"end":406.355,"text":"這個我們都有掌握我們都有掌握那請問每年政府編的宣導費有多少流入固定的媒體請主委說明"},{"start":407.84,"end":431.253,"text":"這個在那個主地總署的官網有統合整個東西那個別政府採購法或標出去給相關媒體在各個機關都會有官網必須要揭露這些在採購法60條之一都已經規範了另外有黨團黨團跟委員提案來增訂公開發行的義務機揭露政府標案收入NCC你們的態度是什麼"},{"start":431.533,"end":455.734,"text":"我們基本看法是這樣的因為該提案的是參考是有限油管法油管法的其實他是大資本然後他當初也是對土稀對一般消費者來收拾費用那跟衛管幾乎是99%是土逼他是對平台的一些處理那太陽不一樣規模不一樣營業模式也不一樣那我們覺得說是否要比照這個"},{"start":457.175,"end":464,"text":"來達到他對這個新聞品質的把關是不是符合比例原則是不是適當我們覺得這個可以討論"},{"start":466.014,"end":492.077,"text":"主委您剛剛有提到因為規範有要揭露那是標案的履約管理那這是不是NCC的職權呢預算法裡頭要揭露是預算法的規定預算法主管機關他的規定任何政府機關他有標案給媒體來標他自己的官網要公佈這些我標出去的那些那NCC有沒有另外在做管理"},{"start":493.506,"end":509.078,"text":"這邊我們有做一些基本的一些觀察所以說這是不是雙標因為黨政居持股你們就說會影響媒體的獨立性可是政府用上億的標案來餵養媒體成為媒體的衣食父母你們說你們有一些管理到底是有沒有"},{"start":509.298,"end":525.504,"text":"我們意思是說這一塊因為是有採購法跟預算法來把關那政府的行政要講究效能不可能因為其他機關有在做我們又重複在做一樣事情這個對民眾期待政府要有效率這邊應該是相對的必須要符合這個原則的"},{"start":526.653,"end":544.097,"text":"OK好謝謝主委說明那今天本席是針對換照的制度希望NCC能夠主動的來做出改革那第二針對媒體的金流那如果不揭露那就是政府的合法政治收買那也請NCC這邊也主動去了解好嗎好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}