{"error":false,"id":["166265"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166265,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166265","日期":"2025-12-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-20-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-10T09:37:57+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-10T09:48:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a128e1119a2c25c04e8827e107cd49cd9ecb9f93c172c551e95b9c653acd4d72f952555c339954dd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"09:37:57 - 09:48:42","會議時間":"2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「財政收支劃分法」7案：（僅詢答）\n(一)\t本院委員郭國文等17人、委員賴瑞隆等19人、委員賴瑞隆等17人分別擬具「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」等3案。\n(二)\t本院委員陳玉珍等19人擬具「財政收支劃分法第八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)\t本院委員邱議瑩等26人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(四)\t本院委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一及第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)\t本院委員陳玉珍等24人擬具「財政收支劃分法第三十條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例」2案：（僅詢答）\n(一)本院委員郭國文等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「國家金融安定基金設置及管理條例第四條及第五條條文修正草案」案。\n 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到現在還不復違的原因是什麼你知道嗎當然就是說跟軍警有關待遇相關的這個部分只有這一項而已嗎"},{"start":155.618,"end":159.901,"text":"另外就是才化法剛修正的11月14號的這個版本的問題"},{"start":161.98,"end":184.53,"text":"那11月14號才劃法這個版本它非常的自愛難行因為我們在8月底中央跟地方都已經把預算送到民營機關來審議了所以這個11月14號才通過我們的預算完全無法回溯所以這個有它的自愛難行我先問一個比較程序的問題"},{"start":185.811,"end":201.043,"text":"其實以我了解現在地方政府的議會無論是直轄市或是各縣市都已經在審查預算了那他們的明年的預算關於中央政府補助還有統籌分配稅款的部分如果中央的這個預算審查沒有過他們拿得到嗎就會受到影響影響是怎麼樣的影響"},{"start":206.604,"end":231.297,"text":"就是說我們主要就是可能個別部會必須去界定哪一些是新興的新興的就一定會受影響那因為115年度這個制度的變革比較大所以新興的會比較多我提早我現在建議你們你要提早爬書提早整理好不好不要到時候你才在那邊緊張我跟你講現在地方政府地方的議會都在審預算"},{"start":232.698,"end":258.232,"text":"因為我有服務團隊 我服務團隊裡面有議員啊他們就跟我講說現在在審預算啊那中央的要給他的補助啊 中央的這個統統分配稅款他們其實都有量定之後再去審那當然他們可以周轉啊 他們可以先借一下然後如果你中央撥下來之後他再 他再頂嘛問題是如果中央一直撥不下去那中央撥不下去的影響程度到底會到什麼程度你能不能先概估一下"},{"start":259.853,"end":279.355,"text":"現在如果沒有撥款下去應該蠻多地方政府他在調度的能力因為他這次影響的範圍比較廣所以那個調度的能力應該是不夠所以地方的很多的建設都還有跟地方有關的一些社會福利的項目都會受到影響"},{"start":280.336,"end":306.803,"text":"沒有辦法 因為現在他們的 有人看法是說我立法機關我用法律的規定 規定你要硬性支出搶奪你的行政權嘛那你現在這樣的法律剛剛你講說你們的看法是自愛難行嘛我舉個例子 他軍人一定要加薪多少錢軍人加薪喔 應該是行政機關的權利嘛但立法機關又跟你立法那我將來如果人多我可不可以立法 立一個說立法委員每個人每個月要加薪兩百萬"},{"start":308.083,"end":318.471,"text":"那立個法你要不要執行所以我舉這樣子的例子是說有時候這個東西是要經過大家協商大家研判那現在不省預算那現在把總預算當作肉票啊"},{"start":319.762,"end":345.676,"text":"擄人勒鼠你聽過嘛擄人勒鼠是抓人要拿錢嘛對不對那現在是擄總預算不讓你審查然後硬要逼你 你一定要吞下去嘛 對不對所以這在我來看跟擄人勒鼠有接近啦所以你的總預算會變成肉票真的沒辦法審所以你現在應該要趕快爬出來你不要等到12月底他說要延後一個月然後1月底你才跟人家講早點跟人家講讓人家早做準備"},{"start":347.082,"end":372.293,"text":"對不對 你覺得呢是 我們應該要來做這些事情好 那我是希望能夠了解說如果真的沒有預算審查影響最大的是 我知道大家的薪水都可以領啊沒有問題啊 因為照以前的法律規定你薪水都照領嘛但是新興計畫都不能做那原有的計畫 原有的舊有的計畫也只能夠做多少只能做一部分吧 不是百分之百吧就是以上年度的執行數為天花板"},{"start":373.537,"end":401.852,"text":"上年度的執行組的天花板所以增加的預算都沒有了對好那你要把這個仔細的整理出來提早讓透過媒體讓全民知道預算不審查所造成的後果先古人說不教而殺為之虐你先把這個造成的危害講在前面說清楚講明白將來發生的人家才不會跪在你頭上不然你希望以後主計部財政部吃不完兜著走"},{"start":403.098,"end":421.906,"text":"是你贊不贊成我這個說法是尤其就是說其實預算就我施政的表現那如果預算一直沒有過未來這個責任政治就會不清楚不清楚他不在乎啊他就現在在跟你搞政治他也不管你預算審查都已經把這個總預算當作肉票了他還來還來管你這個嗎"},{"start":425.269,"end":446.485,"text":"那你要讓國民知道說哪一些讓他們講清楚現在因為很多民眾很多國民的觀念裡面政府是一體的所以譬如說他拿不到租屋補貼到底我是應該要怪地方政府還是要怪中央政府還是要怪審查預算的這一些立法委員他們搞不清楚狀況啊那"},{"start":447.338,"end":472.554,"text":"我在外面走我在我的選區走常常被這樣問愛委員我們那個補助到底有沒有我也沒辦法回答他因為你預算沒有審查我也不知道那個補助會不會有我也不知道那個補助是應該要中方政府來付還是地方政府來付我也沒辦法回答他所以我現在都只能跟他講說你到服務處來我找那個秘書他們找那個行政機關跟你查詢查詢之後再回答你"},{"start":473.594,"end":498.684,"text":"連我都搞得不清不楚的那你現在跟一般的人怎麼會搞得清楚的所以是什麼樣的情況造成哪一些的補助會變成沒有辦法下來這是誰的權責是地方政府該給的補助還是中央政府該給的補助地方政府拿不到中央撥款之後他可能也沒辦法補助那他也可能轉頭他賴給說中央政府不給我錢所以我沒有辦法補助你"},{"start":499.662,"end":512.928,"text":"就像現在啊不是最近在討論那個什麼罰單嗎交通違規的罰單一大堆就說仔細去看原來地方政府拿了75%警察單位拿了24%那只有1%是拿來怎麼樣"},{"start":515.289,"end":543.599,"text":"結果很多人搞不清楚我以為開罰單就是交通部給我搞的每一個人都罵交通部我每次都跟他看說你看看罰單上面寫誰如果在我們新北市就是新北市政府警察局交通違規罰單我都會拿給他看新北市政府警察局他說不管啦反正也是交通部那邊訂的法律啦反正都怪你們就對了要賴給清德就好了啊所有的不如意所有的不愉快全部都賴給政府就好了都賴給清德就好了"},{"start":544.844,"end":561.219,"text":"所以我是希望冤有頭債有主啦不要造成這樣的狀況那你可不可以告訴我你多久可以這個東西可以爬出清楚我希望有一天在媒體上看到也不用你來跟我報告我希望在媒體上看到講清楚說明白這個會造成什麼樣的影響"},{"start":562.686,"end":574.474,"text":"有沒有辦法 跟委員報告就是委員講的這個這非常的重要 那其實我們已經持續都對外說明說預算沒有過的這個影響哪有 我就很少看到那我們會再更大力的這個"},{"start":577.142,"end":598.003,"text":"因為你講得不夠仔細 你沒有講說你的租屋補貼還會不會有你每一年給年輕人讀大學的 讀私立大學的補助還有沒有等等這些你要講清楚啊你沒有講清楚就講說我過了會很慘那許民眾聽了很慘是怎麼樣很慘 我不知道很慘是什麼意思"},{"start":599.622,"end":623.696,"text":"就是我們了解就是說我們院裡面會請各部會趕快去會診他的相關心境計畫的沒有過的影響對啊因為責任政治就是要可以可以那個可以知道誰在搞我誰在搞鬼然後我受害要找誰這個一定要弄清楚不然的話搞不清楚狀況我怎麼知道我這只好賴給反正都賴給政府就好了"},{"start":624.929,"end":633.934,"text":"千萬不要這樣啊誰做對不對 始作俑者岂其無後乎誰作勇 誰負責 好不好好 我們跟部會來合作 謝謝謝謝吳委員接下來我們請賴世保委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}