{"error":false,"id":["166286"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166286,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166286","日期":"2025-12-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-10T10:25:54+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-10T10:39:39+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a128e1119a2c25c0398c3afd9498ea14ff56a78bd28eb12244a569ea12001d971bd147f165fa27cb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"10:25:54 - 10:39:39","會議時間":"2025-12-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部及教育部就「身心障礙者特教融合、就業服務及自立生活現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n(討論事項)\n一、繼續審查\n(一) 委員范雲等17人、委員何欣純等17人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員廖偉翔等19人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員羅美玲等16人及委員劉建國等17人分別擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員郭昱晴等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第二條、第五十三條及第九十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(五) 委員徐富癸等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(六) 委員黃捷等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(七) 委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n(八) 委員柯志恩等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n(九) 委員柯志恩等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第六十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n(十) 委員馬文君等19人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第三十條之一、第五十條及第五十二條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一) 委員廖偉翔等21人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第五十條之一條文草案」案。\n(十二) 委員林楚茵等20人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n(十三) 委員洪孟楷等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法增訂第四十條之一條文草案」案。\n(十四) 委員陳俊宇等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(十五) 委員林楚茵等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(十六) 委員劉建國等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(十七) 委員邱若華等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法第七十一條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一) 委員林月琴等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二) 委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(三) 委員王育敏等17人擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(四) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「身心障礙者權益保障法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第二(四)案，如經復議，則不予審查】\n【專題報告及討論事項，綜合詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.55346875,"end":6.949718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.949718750000001,"end":7.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.62409375,"end":12.535343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.906593750000003,"end":16.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.88909375,"end":18.32346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.06596875,"end":20.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.63534375,"end":26.997218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.65971875,"end":35.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.768468750000004,"end":34.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.64159375,"end":36.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.48534375,"end":36.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.767843750000004,"end":38.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.18534375,"end":42.674093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.33221875,"end":147.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.93596875,"end":193.13159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.19971875000002,"end":189.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.35096875000002,"end":195.86534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.20284375,"end":213.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.34346875,"end":215.52471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.31784375,"end":221.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.54534375,"end":219.42284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.38471875000002,"end":221.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.56596875000002,"end":225.32909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.17284375000003,"end":227.03346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.50596875000002,"end":228.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.82221875000002,"end":229.98659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.17221875,"end":230.88096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.59409375,"end":230.83034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.88096875000002,"end":231.72471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.65284375000002,"end":249.88221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.07471875000002,"end":233.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.18596875000003,"end":250.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.28284375,"end":253.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.48909375000002,"end":256.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.88534375,"end":256.93596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.95284375,"end":259.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.83409375,"end":261.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.08721875000003,"end":261.15471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.15471875000003,"end":261.18846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.18846875,"end":263.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.95971875000004,"end":272.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.79846875000004,"end":283.73346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.80096875000004,"end":295.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.52909375,"end":299.30909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.30471875,"end":300.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.19909375000003,"end":303.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.32096875,"end":308.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.60721875,"end":308.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.87721875,"end":313.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.22721875,"end":317.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.26034375,"end":315.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.55096875000004,"end":330.27471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.86534375,"end":343.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.79159375,"end":347.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.80784375,"end":350.38971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.94659375000003,"end":372.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.61409375000005,"end":376.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.20846875,"end":377.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":377.13659375000003,"end":381.05159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.86159375,"end":391.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.56909375000004,"end":391.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.39159375,"end":395.14221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.10846875000004,"end":395.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.81721875000005,"end":400.06971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.96409375,"end":425.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.43284375,"end":427.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":427.82909375,"end":442.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.79721875,"end":489.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.31721875000005,"end":493.03409375},{"spe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謝謝主席 是不是請我們部長來 部長林委員早"},{"start":12.95,"end":42.512,"text":"部長 我想今天跟你討論一個之前談過的議題就是說你知道這個未來的慢性病的防治重點大概會有哪些嗎 慢性病NCD 就是那個非傳染性疾病我們主要就是以三高跟CKD那就是所謂代謝症候群那代謝症候群成長的趨勢在台灣嚴不嚴重你覺得呢"},{"start":44.293,"end":62.367,"text":"很嚴重你知道這個肥胖問題不只是台灣成為全球關注的焦點根據今年3月在發表在刺客專的期刊一項分析全球200多個國家的數據的研究指出到2050年在不久的將來全球會超過一半的成年人"},{"start":68.672,"end":85.905,"text":"以及三分之一的兒童及青少年將會超重或者是肥胖但我們都知道肥胖不只是個人健康的問題它還會加重醫療體系的負擔甚至提升慢性病的風險"},{"start":87.046,"end":102.442,"text":"那我现在在特别在跟你指出来就是说国建署去年国建署的去年发布了2023年的工作人口健康促进的现况调查他的初步结果调查中发现"},{"start":103.804,"end":114.778,"text":"僅有不到一半的工作者體重正常受調查的全體工作者當中高達47.4%的體重達到過重或者是肥胖"},{"start":118.232,"end":147.432,"text":"主要当然就是缺少运动或者是膳食纤维蔬果的摄取不足目前的初步分析发现只有47.9%的工作者体重落在正常的范围27.2%已经是过重20.2%已经是肥胖的程度只有仅仅非常少的是4.7%是过轻的族群这种初步的分析里面"},{"start":148.973,"end":166.846,"text":"我們看到體重正常的工作者當中還有性別上的差異女性正常的裡面女性居多但是50歲以上的女性族群仍然有超過30%具有過重或者是肥胖的問題"},{"start":168.067,"end":192.87,"text":"這可能的因素很多啦 當然包括更年期等等那另外根據數據調查顯示男性過重跟肥胖的族群高達61.6%而且年齡分布在40歲以上的男性族群體重問題都以過重為主但是50到59歲則男性肥胖的比例最高是"},{"start":193.911,"end":213.309,"text":"肥胖比例最高的年齡段那我要講這個就是說我們都知道肥胖這個問題代謝症候群的問題這個是跟肥胖跟很多疾病息息相關那你知道部長現在茶餘飯後網路上大家最喜歡討論的關於跟肥胖有關的議題是什麼"},{"start":217.02,"end":227.887,"text":"最流行的又不是那一支 人家是雙效的雙效的GLP-1 另外一個效數是什麼有兩種 它是兩種的兩種嗎"},{"start":232.694,"end":252.447,"text":"大家都知道 討論度最高的處理代謝症候群的方法大家都是直接使用藥物而且號稱非常健效 非常有效那其實你看我 我其實是過重的我是過重的 真的我沒騙你我是過重的雖然大家都看不出來我很重"},{"start":260.926,"end":263.324,"text":"所以我也很动心您分量很重"},{"start":266.988,"end":294.171,"text":"但是大家都使用瘦瘦增經驗的真的很多我旁邊一大堆人那我們也去看自費的門診的人也很多那其實我建議我的一個子女他也真的他不是過重他已經是超級胖了我也會建議他要去看但是呢很多的診所甚至醫生都在招攬生意然後歡迎有興趣的需要的請到跟診所洽詢"},{"start":295.592,"end":317.251,"text":"真的是行力有夠好 藥水有夠好的好你知道這個瘦瘦針一年營業額在台灣有多少嗎成長率有多高嗎你們有沒有數據 來健保署 那不是健保 那是自費那是自費那個食藥署的那個銷售量去看"},{"start":317.631,"end":329.396,"text":"喔 對 好 到時候你給我一個數據真的 剛開始是丹麥的現在丹麥行李都倒了 美國里來打倒了但我是要在這裡要講這件事情是因為啊 你知道川普宣布跟里來和諾德兩家製藥的巨頭達成協議他們希望擴大美國民眾對減肥藥物的可及性"},{"start":343.863,"end":350.01,"text":"一個政府他們希望擴大減肥藥物的可及性"},{"start":351.144,"end":375.847,"text":"這是一個非常嚴肅的問題真的非常嚴肅他擴大這個可及性要求藥廠降價降價以後引起更多的人討論甚至連台灣都開始有人呼籲了呼籲政府要將這類的瘦瘦真藥品納入健保給付我剛剛講的我一個親戚122公斤女性年輕他依照健保他可不可以使用"},{"start":377.185,"end":399.779,"text":"他已經有三高問題了可以健保補助嗎不可以不可以啊因為他還沒達到糖尿病他血糖過高但是還沒達到糖尿病標準他有血壓過高有膽固醇過高可是沒有健保補助啊如果是病態肥胖的話會納入到我們對嘛那我說一個122公斤對一個24歲的女性是不是過度肥胖"},{"start":401.047,"end":426.481,"text":"是啊 肯定是啊 可是沒有給付但我不是要討論這個給付我是要跟你講說這個問題非常嚴重當減重的藥物被大規模的可進性可急性的時候社會對體重問題的理解還有分配資源整個健保資源 藥物資源分配的優先次序大家都想介入 都想改變"},{"start":427.882,"end":441.589,"text":"但是我們可不可以把肥胖當成是可以用藥物解決的疾病當川普這麼做的時候帶頭示範的時候他會衝擊到全世界各個國家的政府的壓力"},{"start":442.87,"end":460.482,"text":"所以這牽扯到預防肥胖當然跟預防跟營養政策跟生活型態的醫學還有跟醫療資源的分配很優關高度相關但是如果你缺乏公平而且精準的臨床的指引"},{"start":461.603,"end":489.582,"text":"資源有可能錯置啊他錯置在非高風險的族群裡面反而削弱了公共衛生政策的有效性啊所以我們在講說這是很嚴肅的課題但不僅是美國或全球正在面臨的課題也是台灣必須及早正式的醫療和社會政策的挑戰但我今天還在跟你講說但是事實上肥胖跟疾病就息息相關嘛"},{"start":490.402,"end":507.911,"text":"肥胖就跟疾病息息相關有哪些疾病太多了啦太多了這個跟這個血糖血壓血脂啊都相關直接相關的疾病你說血糖血壓血脂慢性的直接有疾病什麼都有相關脂肪肝"},{"start":510.012,"end":524.406,"text":"大家都知道這個體重過重或肥胖者罹患脂肪肝和肝癌的風險很高但是肝癌就跟我們的癌症防治有關了肝癌始終高居第二名高居不下"},{"start":525.347,"end":537.201,"text":"癌症死因的第二名但脂肪性的肝炎是肝癌的致病因子之一而且只要肝臟的脂肪超過5%就是脂肪肝了嘛所以在這種狀況裡面國際癌症"},{"start":540.365,"end":562.753,"text":"研究機構IARC他們報告也指出肥胖就是導致癌症的危險因子而且體重過重者相較於健康者高出1.5或到1.8倍罹患肝癌的機率所以你說這是要不要去處理 要啊要怎麼處理肥胖要怎麼處理"},{"start":564.571,"end":575.14,"text":"肥胖的這個因素很多調整的他是整個生活習慣的改變不是只是靠藥物人家靠藥物非常有效比你調整他更迅速更有效"},{"start":576.465,"end":604.388,"text":"你要不要納入從學理上來看那當然對於這個病態性肥胖的它可是一個輔助的藥物啦而且迅速有效喔那如果肥胖跟癌症相關你從源頭裡面來防治來預防的話人家會覺得說這也是有道理的喔make sense這個還是要經過醫療科技現在就是資源分配的問題而已嘛資源分配的問題是不是"},{"start":605.87,"end":629.289,"text":"對 一定是跟資源有關係大家都知道以肝癌為例台灣的肝癌大多數都是來自於代言者BC型的代言者但是也有非代言者的去確診的那台灣的BC型肝炎防治有良好的成效但是脂肪肝的發生率卻患者越來越年輕化而脂肪肝的10年變化趨勢"},{"start":632.091,"end":650.364,"text":"2015年發生率是44.5%到2024年變成52.3%結果脂肪肝的這個每兩人就有一個人脂肪肝40到49歲脂肪肝超過7成比例最高天啊在座40到49歲有脂肪肝的舉手"},{"start":652.048,"end":680.803,"text":"其實我當時就是我也是所以在這種狀況裡面20到29歲有幾%有脂肪肝你知道嗎20到29正年輕我告訴你有42將近42所以證實台灣脂肪肝真的是年輕化的趨勢在這種狀況裡面我們講那我們剛剛講工作人口的健康促進現況調查這麼嚴重如何將職場的健康不平等如何改善"},{"start":682.144,"end":692.162,"text":"當然不能是靠人手一針 瘦瘦針吧人手一支瘦瘦針不是辦法吧那你們職場健康促進的策略有哪些措施"},{"start":696.421,"end":723.072,"text":"職場健康的那個推動是我們國健署的主要業務之一叫他準備有什麼策略我先告訴你因為從勞保局的投保單位來看大型職場有0.4%中型職場只有1%大多數的職場都是小型職場98.6%小型職場常因為人力不足而且沒有資源可以推動健康促進活動所以你們的健康促進的政策"},{"start":723.692,"end":738.719,"text":"你們要變成職場健康促進的自主平和制度老實說 你們花多少錢你們鼓勵企業自主檢視 積極規劃 落實健康促進變成口號 口惠實不至"},{"start":739.699,"end":759.189,"text":"而你們去做了大型的職場成功案例做宣傳台灣美光 台化 愛潔旭相對這些比例最高的小型職場你們後續的效益評估資質未提你們到底有沒有辦法做114年到現在做了幾家的有幾家企業申請"},{"start":760.834,"end":775.41,"text":"不知道目前我們的累計的加數大概有1.8萬家啦1.8萬家喔 這麼厲害小心職場怎麼做的我們要職場健康促進自主平和的制度方向政策可以繼續推"},{"start":776.491,"end":791.897,"text":"但你沒有量化追蹤你沒有平和這個透明化和跨部會的協力可能就淪於形式啊所以我們希望你對於職場的健康促進尤其在這個代謝症候群上你應該提出三年的成效指標包括"},{"start":793.658,"end":819.393,"text":"不要講次數企業的參與率健康指標改善幅度還有地區分佈分析我們講健康不平等所以我們就希望職場的這上面的問題要正視它還有這個未來你要好好想一下人手一增收收增真的是適當的嗎可是是不是一個好方法美國都這麼做了其他國家要怎麼辦"},{"start":821.636,"end":823.841,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒我們朝這個方向來努力"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}