{"error":false,"id":["16632"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":16632,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16632","日期":"2025-04-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-19-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2025-04-30T08:29:59+08:00","結束時間":"2025-04-30T12:56:00+08:00","影片長度":"04:26:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db001fad9b8cd413af9b5fa2f296a93534f7d7f547ae197440a67b5eeab3ab724c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-04-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：審查： 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Kacaw等16人擬具「動物保護法第二條及第十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員李坤城等22人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員廖先翔等19人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十二、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、本院委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十四、本院委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條及第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n十六、本院委員陳亭妃等18人擬具「動物保護法第五條、第二十條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十八、本院委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n十九、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「動物保護法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、本院委員游顥等23人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第十條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法增訂第十四條之三條文草案」案。\n二十三、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、本院委員葉元之等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、本院委員蘇巧慧等17人擬具「動物保護法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、本院委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「動物保護法第二十二條之四條文修正草案」案。（詢答）\n【4月30日及5月1日二天一次會】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:29:59 - 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欢迎订阅我的频道"},{"start":615.189,"end":615.27,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":671.639,"end":671.721,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":791.8,"end":796.203,"text":"谢谢观看 欢迎订阅"},{"start":845.009,"end":845.129,"text":"感谢观看"},{"start":955.179,"end":955.486,"text":"MING PAO CANADA MANGA"},{"start":1139.69,"end":1139.77,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":1346.041,"end":1346.122,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":1992.697,"end":1997.401,"text":"請報告出席人數報告全體會出席委員11人已足法定人數"},{"start":1999.225,"end":2024.444,"text":"現在開會進行報告事項請宣讀商事會議事錄禮法院第十一屆第三會期經濟委員會第十次全體委員會議事錄時間114年4月3日星期三九十二分至十二時三二十一分地點紅樓101會議室主席委員賴月榮等十三人請教委員一人列席委員蘇巧慧等二十二人列席人員經濟部部長郭志輝國家發展委員會副主任委員高千貴等主席蔡昭吉委員一人"},{"start":2024.824,"end":2045.624,"text":"報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事錄決定 確定二 邀請經濟部部長國家發展委員會主任委員及衛生福利部首長就美國實施進口產品國安調查對我國產業之影響及因應之道進行報告並備諮詢經濟部部長郭志輝及國家發展委員會副主任委員高先貴報告後委員賴樂隆等事件提出諮詢"},{"start":2046.385,"end":2063.666,"text":"经由经济部部长郭志威等及其答复决定一登记发言委员除不在场者外其余均已发言完毕询答结束二文陈冠廷及黄杰所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报三书面质询和未及答复部分请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并赴资本会散会宣布完毕"},{"start":2067.774,"end":2083.546,"text":"現在繼續進行討論事項請一併宣讀討論事項一 審查本院委員林怡瑾等22人擬據《東北保護法》部分條件修正草案案二 本院委員李一林等16人分別擬據《東北保護法》第10條條件修正草案案"},{"start":2084.446,"end":2099.088,"text":"動物保護法第25條及第25條之一調完修正草案4.本院委員張志文等16人擬拒動物保護法第10條調完修正草案5.本院委員劉建國等16人擬拒動物保護法部分調完修正草案6.本院委員"},{"start":2100.009,"end":2122.99,"text":"本院台灣民眾黨黨團拟據《動物保護法》第25條之二條人修正草案7.本院委員林鄭娜等21人拟據《動物保護法》第14條之一第14條之二及第30條條人修正草案8.本院委員徐巧欣等17人拟據《動物保護法》部分條人修正草案9.本院委員鄭天才等16人拟據《動物保護法》第2條及第10條條人修正草案"},{"start":2124.391,"end":2153.283,"text":"10.本院委員李坤誠等22人拟據《動物保護法》部分條件修正查案11.本院委員廖新祥等19人拟據《動物保護法》部分條件修正查案12.本院台灣民眾黨黨團拟據《動物保護法》部分條件修正查案13.本院委員羅廷維等18人拟據《動物保護法》部分條件修正查案14.本院委員郭玉琴等16人拟據《動物保護法》部分條件修正查案15.本院委員楊瓊瑩等21人拟據《動物保護法》第25條及第25條之1條件修正查案"},{"start":2154.363,"end":2161.424,"text":"16.博焱委員陳廷飛等18人擬拒《動物保護法》第20條及第25條條件修正查案17."},{"start":2161.424,"end":2166.425,"text":"博焱委員林思敏等18人擬拒《動物保護法》部分條件修正查案18."},{"start":2166.425,"end":2171.266,"text":"博焱委員洪孟凱等16人擬拒《動物保護法》部分條件修正查案19."},{"start":2171.266,"end":2176.707,"text":"博焱民眾黨黨團擬拒《動物保護法》第2條及第5條條件修正查案20."},{"start":2176.707,"end":2180.848,"text":"博焱委員游浩等23人擬拒《動物保護法》第25條之1條件修正查案"},{"start":2181.408,"end":2191.725,"text":"第21至第24案為本院委員、院員之等17人分別擬據《高屋保護法》第10條條件修正草案案《高屋保護法》增訂第14條之3條草案案"},{"start":2193.468,"end":2211.469,"text":"動物保護法第25條條件修正草案案動物保護法第25條之二條件修正草案案 二十五本院委員蘇喬二等十七人擬拒動物保護法部分條件修正草案案 二十六本院委員吳佩儀等十七人擬拒動物保護法第22條之四條件修正草案案 宣讀完畢"},{"start":2214.639,"end":2231.625,"text":"本日議程所列討論事項動物保護法部分條文修正草案共計有26位委員提案那現在按照委員來到案的到委員會的順序我們首先先請洪孟凱委員做提案說明"},{"start":2238.629,"end":2268.25,"text":"好 主席各位先進今天我們經濟委員會在針對動物保護法的一個修法感謝謝一鳳召委特別排案動物保護法從民國87年11月4號公布實施以來歷經15次的修正這法令可以說是我國在動物保護動物福利以及相關飼養管理責任上重要的基礎隨著社會對於動物權利的日益提升民眾期待越來越高也因此我們也看到在現行法制面上面要有更"},{"start":2269.211,"end":2288.308,"text":"與時俱進的作為來符合國人的期待尤其是對於動物飼養的管理收容機制的完善以及棄養行為的處理目前仍存在制度面上面的困難也因此在這一次我們特別有針對動物保護法修正草案裡面"},{"start":2289.309,"end":2305.471,"text":"本席提出來希望能夠達成四大面向第一有利於動保檢查員的執法第二提升國人對於動物保護的意識以及第三加強事主的責任提高棄養動物的罰則以及第四"},{"start":2306.332,"end":2327.414,"text":"強化動物利用以及虐待傷害之管理及苛責特別跟說明我們與院版不同的地方是在於修正條文第10條灌水牛事件過去常常有不肖業者用灌水的方式來侵害牛隻所以我們也要明定除了醫療目的外不得已"},{"start":2328.135,"end":2350.615,"text":"不以屠宰場的場域為限均不得對經濟動物居於灌水灌食或是捆綁等行為第二修正條例第18條新增其他補習或是進修教育機構禁止未經監督及專業訓練的動物實驗課程避免不必要的動物犧牲還有我們也希望能夠修正24條跟29條強化動物科學運用機構的管理"},{"start":2355.287,"end":2375.303,"text":"尊重動物生命保護動物以及維護動物福利已經是普世價值也是我國社會跟人民的共識也因此我常說人是萬物之靈但人絕非不是高高在上我們要跟動物一起學習怎麼樣跟社會和睦相處以及共享地球這個資源"},{"start":2376.644,"end":2405.496,"text":"本次經濟委員會的排審非常重要希望進入實質討論再次感謝昭緯的排案也感謝我們今天在場不分藍綠所有的委員共同提出的修正版本我們希望行政部門能夠以傾聽開放的態度來充分討論每一個委員所提出的版本做最仔細的評估順利完成修法以上 謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請舒巧慧委員做提案說明"},{"start":2412.93,"end":2425.401,"text":"好 謝謝主席本席提案二要的說就是一 設置動物保護警察二 成立動物保護基金三 對動物提供更嚴密的保護四 對違法施以更嚴厲的處罰動物保護法自1998年制定以來已經修正了15次"},{"start":2433.427,"end":2451.478,"text":"這麼頻繁的修正代表動物保護的觀念不斷在改進也代表原先的立法還不夠周全造成施行結果無法達到尊重動物生命保護動物及確保動物福利的目的因此本席在本屆再度提出修正案第一設置動物保護警察"},{"start":2452.338,"end":2475.599,"text":"动物是具有感知能力的生命而根据研究虐待动物与家庭暴力犯罪有高度的关联性基于这两个理由先进国家通常会将防止虐待动物列为治安重点更重要的是动物保护案件的侦办涉及专业建议比照先进国家的做法设置专业的动物保护警察"},{"start":2476.44,"end":2500.565,"text":"第二,成立动物保护基金,透过稳定的裁员来改善目前动物保护的重大困境,包括受虐、受伤动物的救治、动物收容环境的改善、游荡动物的安置与保护等。第三,对动物提供更严密的保护,包括放宽虐待动物的定义、明定饲养的设备与方式、增订经营动物贩卖的规定等等。"},{"start":2501.425,"end":2528.682,"text":"第四對違法施以更嚴厲的處罰明定虐待動物行為人及因受處罰不論動物之生理上是否實質受到傷害加重傷害動物使動物受到傷害之處罰並在區分情節重大致動物發生重傷死亡的結果者加重其責就此本席願擬據動物保護法部分條文的修正案懇請各位立院同仁支持"},{"start":2530.776,"end":2534.197,"text":"好謝謝我們現在請羅廷慧委員做提案說明"},{"start":2548.953,"end":2576.324,"text":"好 謝謝主席大家早安我想這個所以社會對於動物保護意識的一個提升那現行的這個動保法其實部分的一些規定已經不足以回應整個所有的食物的一個需求跟社會的一個期待所以這一次也希望透過我們的部分草案的一個修訂能夠來強化第一包含飼主的一個責任另外還有管理動物相關的一些產業以及提升收容所的量能"},{"start":2576.94,"end":2590.135,"text":"那明確禁止虐待的一個行為跟規範動物交換贈與的一些行為另外還有保障實驗動物的一個福利並賦予動物保護檢察員也就是動檢員的一些司法警察權"},{"start":2591.226,"end":2620.174,"text":"那來全面促進動物的一個福利跟保護那首先呢這些重點包含第一個就是強化飼主的責任明確的飼養的一個規範然後來明定所謂的這個飼主應該要符合動物的天性的飼養的環境還有照顧的一個措施並且具體的規範基本的一個照顧的原則那禁止棄養另外呢在飼主呢在為寵物進行結紮等等的一些責任來強化飼主的一個責任跟義務"},{"start":2622.076,"end":2631.006,"text":"那第二點呢包含就是有效的管理動物相關的一些產業強化專業人員的一個能力跟寵物登記的一個責任那要求這個經營寵物"},{"start":2633.08,"end":2655.696,"text":"買賣業者必須要設置專任或者是專業的一個技術人員並且在每年要接受所謂的值錢的訓練落實登記跟許可的一個制度強化源頭的一個寵物的管理那另外在經營寵物食品業者的部分在整個所有的食品業的食品的包裝要明確的標示所謂的這個寵物食品的一個成分"},{"start":2656.116,"end":2680.155,"text":"那避免使用有害的一些物質那同時也要求現在網路的一些平台的業者也要配合提供規規的一個證據的檢舉加強整個所有網路對於寵物食品的安全的管理那第三個部分呢包含充實公共的公立的一個收容所的一個量能那我想這個收容所的量能一直以來也是非常大的一個問題"},{"start":2681.175,"end":2692.608,"text":"那如何要提升這個收容所的一個設施以及人力的一個資源並且授權中央主管機關負責來做評鑑跟公告的一個結果同時我們也希望政府能夠寬列動物保護的預算"},{"start":2695.066,"end":2719.872,"text":"以及專款專用來強化公部門在推動動保的一個效能那第四點就是保障動物的一個福利要明確的定義虐待的行為並且修正處罰的一些規定那將虐待動物的一個行為擴大到對於動物的生理或心理造成傷害痛苦緊迫以及恐懼的等等的不當的行為那麼另外還包含禁止有棄養或虐待紀錄者在飼養動物的"},{"start":2722.455,"end":2729.683,"text":"明確的黑名單以及灰名單的一個定義那另外再來第五點是禁止以賭博娛樂遊戲"},{"start":2731.414,"end":2759.703,"text":"以及營業以及宣傳等方式來做動物的交換或贈餘那這部分也是要抑止所謂的這個就是取得動物之後的一些棄養以及不當的一個問題那第六點保障實驗動物的一個福利那麼我們修法的第15條是希望能夠優先以非動物的替代的方式能夠貫徹減量替代以及精緻化的一個原則能夠促進科學研究"},{"start":2760.519,"end":2775.613,"text":"當中對於實驗動物的福利跟尊重以及這個保障那第七點其實剛剛有兩位委員也特別提到就是我們的動保警察的部分那這個部分我們希望這個農業部會同這個內政部能夠警政署來辦"},{"start":2777.659,"end":2799.026,"text":"訂定這個辦法能夠來強化對動物保護執行力以及執法力的一個期待那就是針對以上幾點我們希望能夠在現今我們的這個動保法的一個修法當中能夠真正落實對動物的福祉的一個照顧以上好謝謝我們現在請羅廷瑞委員做提案說明"},{"start":2806.823,"end":2825.528,"text":"好 感謝召委排審動保法在民國87年公佈實行以後我們歷經了這麼多次的修正成為我國動物保護福利及飼養最關鍵重要的一個法律基礎然而隨著社會一直不斷的逐漸對動保的意識提升還有科技的進步"},{"start":2826.488,"end":2848.184,"text":"我們近年來對於虐待動物、棄養動物、非法繁殖還有不當飼養以及網路許多的事件頻繁的在網路上、社會上曝光我們可以顯現出整個法制還有諸多的不足希望能夠與時俱進我們全面保障的動物基本權益以及福利"},{"start":2849.005,"end":2876.584,"text":"更希望能夠有效的抑制違法的行為特別是在動物飼養的管理收容的體系棄養的行為處理以及動物流向的管理網路平台的責任動物科學應用的機構監督還有相關等方面現行的規範我覺得還有明顯的一個缺口能夠希望再透過每一次的修法來加以補強"},{"start":2877.905,"end":2905.188,"text":"為此我們尊重生命提升國人對動物生命的價值的認識強化動物福利保障整個體系完整事主的責任我們更希望本法在部分條文修正來回應社會的期待健全動物保護的一個機制實現我們能夠跟動物和平共存我們更希望在這一次我所提出的版本能夠在整個"},{"start":2906.349,"end":2917.737,"text":"我們看到明顯的缺口能夠來補上也非常拜託我們所有立法委員一起來努力謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請李昆城委員做提案說明"},{"start":2927.432,"end":2941.561,"text":"謝謝主席今天排審這個動保法不過今天只有我們委員的版本看起來沒有行政院的版本行政院版其實在112年的時候有提出來那時候是68條68條那時候要做修正後來發現範圍太大了所以就濃縮濃縮到具有28條是具有社會高度共識的這個是在113年的時候提出來的"},{"start":2954.15,"end":2972.976,"text":"那但是呢現在已經是114年了那我覺得說這個農業部這個腳步還要再加快因為到現在這個我們都還是只有這個我們委員的版本還沒有這個行政院版的版本好那就以上就這一個本席所提出來動保法的修正案大概有六個面向來做以上的說明跟報告"},{"start":2973.496,"end":2996.372,"text":"那第一個就是說為保障多元寵物物種的動物福利那我們針對寵物進行分類然後並依各分類的物種的管理需求採取分級管理的措施那第二個就是說納管民間所設置的動物收容所或以非營利為目的的飼養犬貓達一定規模以上的大量的飼養戶因為這個有些"},{"start":3000.015,"end":3022.512,"text":"這個飼養戶的確是蠻多的 他甚至比這個可能比官方的收容所都還要多了那這部分要怎麼樣去納管 那請這個農業部要稍微考量一下那第三呢擴大進食基於經濟目的 以動物進行交換或贈與行為的這個樣態那我想說這一個這個修正條文農業部他有提出回應 那基本上是同意的"},{"start":3023.492,"end":3051.723,"text":"但是有一些跟民間商業文化或是說民眾的活動只有相關的再請農業部再去做考量第四點就是說在網路上散佈虐待動物資訊非法繁殖或買賣犬貓等違法網頁的資訊附有限制瀏覽或移除違法網頁內容且保存相關資料的義務這一條是新增第五個"},{"start":3052.768,"end":3079.082,"text":"完善寵物食品標示及廣告宣稱的管理規定那授權這個中央主管機關訂定寵物食品安全管理法那不過現在這個農業部已經有這個預告這個有這個寵物食品管理法那這個是在183年9月5號預告的那現在也114年的5月了希望這個寵物食品管理法能夠儘快送到這個我們立法院來第二點呢這個"},{"start":3081.363,"end":3103.172,"text":"加重宰殺故意傷害動物致其肢體嚴重殘缺或重要器官功能喪失行為者的刑度我想這個大部分委員提案都有這個共識但是這個刑度要如何加重那可能請農業部跟相關單位再做個討論那以上說明 謝謝現在請楊瓊英委員做提案說明"},{"start":3112.366,"end":3139.885,"text":"謝謝主席 楊瓊瑜發言針對於主席所排定今天的法案那巡檔本席給予高度的肯定那本院委員楊瓊瑜 羅廷偉 洪孟凱等21人有鑒於惡意傷害動物致使傷之事件屢見不鮮引起了社會的公憤那實務上因虐傷動物案件之判定"},{"start":3140.946,"end":3147.713,"text":"標準非常的嚴苛 導致許多明顯有虐待動物逝死的情況卻沒有辦法依照動物保護法來懲處 使有修法的必要並刪除動物需有負數之前提本席認為傷害就是傷害 沒有說要達到負數才能夠嚴懲"},{"start":3162.947,"end":3191.724,"text":"那增加暴力以及实施其他凌虐方式呢致动物死亡情节重大者也因相关的罚则来论处以减缓虐待动物事件发生落实动物权益的维护所以凝聚了动物保护法第25条及25条之一修正草案那也敬请大家来支持其中最重要的第25条呢也就是罚金的部分由原先的20万"},{"start":3192.945,"end":3214.421,"text":"到300萬為上限了我們調整到200萬為上限了那麼調整為30萬元以上300萬元以下的罰金那特別也就是原本的這個條文是致動物肢體嚴重殘缺或重要器官功能喪失那本席希望能夠改為"},{"start":3215.362,"end":3244.461,"text":"修正為致動物肢體或器官功能損傷損傷而不是整個喪屍這個也希望得到同仁以及行政部門的支持那麼25條之一最重要的就從剛剛本席所說的是致複數動物死亡情節重大者才能夠處一年以上五年以下的有期徒刑那併合法金那同時呢本席在這個25條之一是提案修正"},{"start":3245.782,"end":3269.679,"text":"使用药物枪械暴力或施以其他凌虐方式致动物死亡者希望修正如此能够好好的真正的维护保护我们的动物以上建言希望在修法的过程到时候我们在做整个法案的讨论时希望能够得到行政部门的一个同意跟各位同仁谢谢"},{"start":3270.66,"end":3276.039,"text":"谢谢我们现在请台湾民众党团一并说明三项提案要旨"},{"start":3288.407,"end":3309.447,"text":"很高興今天大家草野不分草野大家都為了動物保護一起來努力台灣民眾黨為了深化我國動物保護理念提升動物的福利並且是跟國際動保的潮流接軌所以我們這次提出了動保法修正草案我們有兩個非常先進的立法"},{"start":3310.424,"end":3337.935,"text":"第一個我們非常重視動物的福利層次所以台灣民眾黨特別重視動物的安養我們明確的徵定動物的長照規範我們要針對年長患有慢性疾病或者是長期傷產的動物我們要提供安寧跟中老的照顧這展現我們對生命尊嚴的一個重視"},{"start":3339.195,"end":3356.229,"text":"另外也有一個非常先進的一個立法就是為了要保護這個動物啊如果有發生騷擾傷害內帶棄養動物這個行為經過法院判決確定者我們要求要接受心理輔導"},{"start":3358.203,"end":3378.384,"text":"就是內帶動物者經過法院判決確定要接受心理輔導以預防他再犯進一步落實動物的保護這是兩個經過台灣民眾黨多次討論以後推動動物的長照第二個對於內帶動物者要求心理輔導這是兩個很先進的一個立法另外重點包括我們對於"},{"start":3379.685,"end":3395.978,"text":"動物病例進行擴充特別是在經濟的這個動物實驗動物跟寵物這個分類裡面我們新增一個繁殖就是確保動物從一開始出生的時候到中老他各個生命週期都在受到保護包括在繁殖這個階段另外呢這個"},{"start":3398.462,"end":3413.042,"text":"我們發現有一個很嚴重問題就是有些人用自行車或者動力交通工具或者是個人輔具他是用動物去做一個牽引所以我們在這個第五條裡面我明列的這個明定就是"},{"start":3413.763,"end":3437.152,"text":"包括動力交通工具 自行車跟個人行距皆不得用寵物來牽引以防止他有時候高速牽引導致動物的受傷而且一方面也是保障我們其他行人的安全另外對於違反動保法規定的行為我們這次修法要加強執法權的行使前線包括明確授權給主管機關跟動保的保護員你可以進入"},{"start":3440.433,"end":3465,"text":"各類動物的這個場域進行稽查取締並且在必要的時候你可以採取及時的這個強制的這個措施保護動物免於受到這個危害另外我們這個法則這次也會要求要加重法則規範從犯者如果一犯再犯這個從犯者要特別加重他的有期徒刑藉以提升法律的這個威嚇力量跟執行力量"},{"start":3465.814,"end":3487.926,"text":"好 這一次的動保法修正是不分朝野我蠻期待農業部可以早一點提出這個對案共同來保護我們這個動物那這一次最主要是要建立一個周延的動物保護這個體系強化社會尊重生命這個價值更重要的也要符合國際社會的這個標準讓我們整個台灣那個動物保護整個水平是可以拉高很期待我們朝野一起來努力 謝謝"},{"start":3488.985,"end":3505.253,"text":"好 謝謝現在先確認上次會議議事錄請問各位同仁上次會議議事錄有無錯誤沒有的話議事錄確定我們現在請農業部陳俊濟部長就委員提案進行報告"},{"start":3517.08,"end":3530.653,"text":"謝沙偉各位委員各位女士各位先生大家早今天大院經濟委員會就我們立法委員所提的26個版本的動物保護法修正的草案進行審議農業部非常"},{"start":3536.102,"end":3560.284,"text":"榮幸能夠受邀到委員會來這邊做相關的動物保護現在目前修法的進程跟規劃的一個報告那以下僅就整個農業部所擬定的這些相關的動物保護法同時去比較我們委員提出來的26個版本去做相關的一個說明那整個大綱如下請各位參考"},{"start":3561.525,"end":3579.083,"text":"動物保護法其實剛才很多委員都說到了我們在民國87年立法以後經歷了15次的修正在24年間經歷了15次的修正那最近的一次是在110年進行修正但是在110年修正的過程後"},{"start":3580.393,"end":3605.396,"text":"其實我們在相關的執行面還有相關的這些委員也好或者其他的動保團體也好或執行面也好都發現說110年的版本還有一些值得去討論跟修正的一個空間那主要的一些問題包括事主責任的規定不夠明確那第二個部分是整個動物保護執法的行政的調查權的不夠"},{"start":3606.357,"end":3629.059,"text":"那第三個部分是特別是有關於對動物虐待買賣用的特種的源頭管理流向不明確那另外還有很多虐待傷害動物的嚇阻力不足那根據這樣子的一些我們外部收集到的意見所以我們在112年就啟動了就是相關的動物保護法部分的修正的草案然後同時也經過預告的動作"},{"start":3630.62,"end":3658.454,"text":"那透過預告以後其實我們獲得的更多更多的這些資訊所以我們在經過資訊的一個整理那有一個前提就是因為動物保護法可能不同的人的見解不一樣我們是以有共識的條文先納入那如果說還沒有達到共識的條文我們先就是繼續著做溝通所以我們從111年的5月16號開始開始進行我們內部的法國月審查在113年就是去年的8月16號其實已經"},{"start":3660.335,"end":3686.94,"text":"將我們內部的就是版本已經轉到行政院去審議那行政院到目前為止我們所知道行政院已經完成了所有的審查的動作只差我們的院會做報告以後就可以送到立法院了所以我真的也很期待就是在下個月就在這個月應該5月5月就應該能夠送進立法院來進行訂我們的我們委員的版本來進行審議那"},{"start":3689.6,"end":3715.561,"text":"整個我們抱怨的這些版本裡面大概有五個對策那主要的目標跟所有的委員都一致的就是我們希望說能夠針對寵物的飼主責任更加重然後對於我們動物的福祉能夠更精進而且更明確所以這五個策略裡面包括了加強飼主的責任然後提升動物收容的管理那還有講話動物的保護"},{"start":3716.181,"end":3725.821,"text":"以及精進寵物的產業管理那更重要的是我們希望說透過這次的修法能夠給予動保檢查人員的一個執法的一個權利"},{"start":3727.52,"end":3751.849,"text":"那我們也針對委員所提出來的26個版本我們也去做了相關的分析然後逐一的跟我們的版本做一些比對那這次經濟委員會總共提案的總共有26個版本那這26個版本如果我們把它分類的話大概它修法的重點大概分為六項包括事主責任動物收容管理的議題動物保護的環境的議題然後產業管理議題還有"},{"start":3756.992,"end":3772.968,"text":"凍檢人員執法的一個賦權還有嚇阻虐待動物這些議題那以下就這六個議題我做一些說明那第一個部分是在事主的責任的部分那事主的責任的部分大概總共有13個版本"},{"start":3774.369,"end":3795.578,"text":"13個版本是跟事主責任是有關的那主要的修正的重點包括不得為寵物佩戴電擊的一個項圈還有動力交通工具不能用電力的交通工具去牽引那同時也要更明確事主的夠養條件以及要完善寵物的犬貓的這些管理的一個制度"},{"start":3796.118,"end":3803.913,"text":"那這些委員所提的版本最主要是在強化市主的責任來保障多元寵物的動物福祉那與本院報"},{"start":3805.578,"end":3833.196,"text":"本部抱怨的版本是相符所以我們也期待說這個方式能夠支持去推動那第二個部分是在收容動物收容管理的部分那動物收容管理的部分有委員的版本有兩個版本是跟這個有關的那包括就是剛才民眾黨團所提到的就是正列動物收容所具長期照顧失能動物的法定義務然後另外是正列中央地方執行救援之法定的義務那"},{"start":3834.657,"end":3862.884,"text":"以本部來講以實務面來講其實目前我們最大的一個問題是在動物收容的量能嚴重的不足那以現在的規範就是在特定的一個情況之下可以做相關的人道的處理的方式那如果說要用長期照顧失能的動物那勢必要有更多的這些收容所如果沒有更多的收容所的話可能會導致整個收容"},{"start":3863.564,"end":3875.519,"text":"的一個一個周轉率會降低然後影響到我們另外一個議題就是遊蕩犬的族群的控制會產生負面的影響那同時如果增列相關的法定義務事實上很多"},{"start":3876.713,"end":3900.841,"text":"動物的救援其實已經在做了如果說把它列入法定義務的話那就會變成必須要遍列更多的一個人力跟經費那這個部分在建請我們委員在版本討論的時候能夠有所大家一起來討論這個議題那第三個部分是有關於動物保護環境的部分那動物保護環境的部分總共有11個版本是"},{"start":3901.941,"end":3917.636,"text":"是跟這個議題是有關的就是擴大建築基於經濟目的以動物進行交換或證語的行為樣態那這個部分我想基本上本部的這相關的動保法修正也是朝這個方向來做但是因為"},{"start":3918.837,"end":3946.557,"text":"有限於現在目前部分的商業文化跟民眾的休閒的一個生活的一個習慣所以我們希望說建議說有一些但書的規定來授權中央主管機關令公告不受禁止的條件活動跟場所那這個議題其實在公眾討論的時候也有非常多的討論那我們也希望說這個重點也許在後續的這些逐條討論的時候大家都可以來討論"},{"start":3948.473,"end":3965.887,"text":"然後接下來是有關於也是動物保護議題裡面的部分那這個部分有七個委員是七個版本是跟針對這個有關的就是含金屬材質彈簧蓄壓式的套索陷阱不得使用那非經狀態主管機關的許可不得製造販賣陳列或輸出入"},{"start":3967.788,"end":3981.98,"text":"那我想增列禁止使用製造販賣或陳列輸出路的這些陷阱套走是跟本部的立場是相符的但是可能我們在處理這一條的時候可能要跟現有的野保法"},{"start":3983.641,"end":4004.655,"text":"之間的一個競合我們必須討論那野保法裡面現在的這些山豬調等因為基於原住民的狩獵的需要跟有一些農民妨害那個就是阻止這些農作物受損的還有部分的還是可以使用的所以未來討論這個議題可能要討論到相關的跟野保法的一個競合的問題"},{"start":4007.492,"end":4030.872,"text":"那在動物保護環境裡面還有一個重要的就是委員所提出來的版本所提出來的明確動物收容內得安樂死的動物的要件那這個部分我想我們也是支持這樣的一個相符但是我們希望說相關的文字也許在委員討論的版本裡面可以去做一個相關的文字的一個調整"},{"start":4036.36,"end":4051.186,"text":"那接下來還是動物保護環境的議題裡面那總共委員的版本裡面所提到的是要加強加驗我國動物實驗科學管理的一個相關的一個條文那事實上我們"},{"start":4053.597,"end":4081.258,"text":"國內的實驗動物的一個管理包括3R的部分那其實已經在各個相關的實驗單位有相關的一個自主性的一個管理同時也要求實驗單位公佈他的實驗計畫的資訊的時候可能會涉及到一些智慧產產權問題那這個部分可能後續在討論的時候是必須要解決的所以在這邊我們是建議應該要有一些更多的討論跟共識以後才納入相關的法條裡面"},{"start":4084.094,"end":4105.482,"text":"接下來有關於動物保護環境議題裡面委員所提到的是要保障多元的寵物物種的動物福利然後民定中央主管機關得依寵物的物種實性、習性、生理需求等生物特性等對寵物進行分類並進行相關的一個管理"},{"start":4107.103,"end":4117.255,"text":"那這個部分與我們本部的立場是一致的所以我們也期待說這個法條在後續討論的時候能夠順利的通過那接下來第四個部分是有關於"},{"start":4118.926,"end":4142.468,"text":"寵物產業的一個管理那寵物產業的管理所提案的委員也相當的多那其中其中有關於經營寵物業者應任專任人員然後要接受在職訓練然後特別強化繁殖買賣特定寵物的源頭的流向管理以及寵物食品不得含有變質腐敗或有異物"},{"start":4143.83,"end":4167.548,"text":"含有義務然後中央主管機關指定不得使用的物質也不能含在裡面那同時未經許可擅自經營的時候必須要有相關的一個罰款那這個部分都與本部的修正報院的修正的條文是一致的所以我們可以建議說相關後續的討論的時候我們就做相關的文字修正的部分"},{"start":4168.268,"end":4187.086,"text":"那接下來是寵物常務管理裡面委員所提到的要強化寵物食品的安全管理那這個安全管理裡面上次也跟在上個會期開始其實也跟委員報告也依委員的要求我們將原來動保法裡面的寵物食品的這些條文"},{"start":4187.646,"end":4206.659,"text":"我們已經把它變成一個寵物食品管理法的一個專法用專法的方式去處理因為寵物食品的管理從邊境一直到生產製造到產品的標示到販售它有很長的一個供應鏈必須用專法的方式去管理那這個部分我想"},{"start":4208.224,"end":4225.714,"text":"寵物食品的專法我們預計會在5月底就會送到行政院那我也期待說在這個下個會期能夠送進立法院來進行相關的審議所以建議這個相關有關於寵物食品的專法那個管理的條文可以在專法內一併來討論"},{"start":4228.117,"end":4249.833,"text":"然後接下來是有關於動保檢查人員的部分那相關的動保檢查人員的部分那我們曾經與各個部會去討論那我們希望說在這個檢查人員行政調查的職權跟我們的立場是一致的可以做相關的這些文字修正應該就可以執行但是"},{"start":4251.325,"end":4268.396,"text":"有關於動保檢查人員的部分因為有牽涉到內政部的一個職權的管理然後也經過多次的討論那我們希望說這個部分可能可以用其他的方式來替代不宜說直接貿然的去推動這個相關的動保檢查人力"},{"start":4270.063,"end":4285.22,"text":"那接下來是有關嚇阻虐待動物的部分那委員有修正就是加重這種宰殺故意傷害等相關的一個刑度那這個部分跟本部的立場是一致的我們也支持這個法能夠盡速的一個推動"},{"start":4286.55,"end":4302.284,"text":"那有關於走私動物致死被消費的形式規定的部分那我們的立場是因為走私有應該回歸到相關的走私的作用法裡面如果動保法在修正的話可能相關的這個法之間有相關的一個競合的問題"},{"start":4303.618,"end":4321.777,"text":"那接下來是賀祖的有緣提案有關於增訂虐待傷害動物的行為人必須接受一些所謂的評估然後做心理跟教育的一個輔導那這個部分其實牽扯到人的部分牽扯到心理治療專業及心理矯正的部分"},{"start":4322.818,"end":4346.78,"text":"這個部分可能必須要洽我們的衛福部相關的一個意見是不是說在相關的法裡面已經有這樣子的一個條文那同時當你去做受刑人的心理評估的時候其實可以回歸到監獄的矯正處理相關的作用法那這個部分我想後續也可能在條文討論的時候可以請法務部來做一起的討論"},{"start":4348.181,"end":4372.796,"text":"那最後我想也非常感謝我們的委員這麼熱心因為我們的寵物是很多人的朋友也是家人那我們期待說大家一起針對我們過去所做的不足的地方能夠透過這次動物保護法的條文的修正讓我們的動物保護的制度能夠更與時俱進然後更能夠就是朝向動物福利的國家邁向以上謝謝"},{"start":4374.717,"end":4376.378,"text":"現在請登記第一位林黛嬅委員做詢問"},{"start":4411.735,"end":4412.285,"text":"好有請部長"},{"start":4419.639,"end":4448.295,"text":"好 部長您在這個報告當中有提到這個行政院的版本但本席認為是不是真的能夠解決相關現實面的成科的問題本席是強烈的質疑第一個你說加強事主的責任你說凍檢員的執法的賦權以及提升動物收容管理好 光是動物收容管理我剛才很清楚的聽到幾個提案委員"},{"start":4448.695,"end":4471.836,"text":"不管是郭育晶郭委員或者是民眾黨的版本那你們都說你們是支持納管民間東部收容所的可是考量到地方行政能量及無法取得合法用地之狗場退場的困境那也表示說無解啊所以你這個法通過之後你對於整個收容量的增加"},{"start":4473.171,"end":4492.028,"text":"你沒有辦法所以還是一樣啊在收容所裡面還是很擁擠啊那這個民間的部門還是很雜亂啊那我為什麼提到這一點你們這個江文權江市長我剛才還到他的位置跟他確認他是非常非常清楚在12年前的時候本席就提出了"},{"start":4492.648,"end":4516.272,"text":"在這個陳寶基主委的時候我希望能夠協助你們我也一直倡議針對民間收容所的部分我如何在他的設施設備硬體當中給予導入因為包括你的汙染啊廢水處理的汙染啊你的排泄物的汙染啊包括你的噪音啊他對於鄰居的部分是不是那個地點適合啊"},{"start":4517.272,"end":4523.818,"text":"然後呢這個包括他我呢一直希望導入家福系統對於我們人當中的家福系統的一個制度我們有哪些專業的人力有獸醫師的配合有檢查這個你進來當中有一些該有的一個動物福利的相關的這個人員的"},{"start":4539.211,"end":4561.521,"text":"導入在這個民間的狗場裡面或貓場裡面的去扶植他們的專業人力但是你們沒做你們申請下來之後擅自挪用本席的主張全部投入公立收容所的修建然後對於各個民間場域的專業人力你有愛心不代表有專業啊"},{"start":4562.95,"end":4577.783,"text":"但是你們也沒有投入剛才文泉這個師長是說因為當初爭取的中期計畫行政院是給了六成 六成還是可以做事啊你光是經過這12年如果你真的用心輔導私人的這個"},{"start":4579.905,"end":4589.614,"text":"流浪狗的收容的地方 你早就可以做出一些神蹟了你們沒有 可是即使你到現在你聽到你的這個質詢 聽到你的報告我認為還是一樣 陳柯依舊你沒有什麼作為啦 然後你說加強事主的責任好 那我們來看今天本席 我提出來了"},{"start":4599.884,"end":4602.906,"text":"這個我認為TNR我沒有反對TNR聽好我沒有反對TNR我認為農業部帶做的是TNR之後的配套的管理措施是沒有的所以你看這個是"},{"start":4630.024,"end":4644.704,"text":"的選擇的襲擊巢穴這是學者專家他在保護他又有那個監視系統怎麼發現到怎麼會是出現流浪狗來把他襲擊的所以這是學者專家有在保護的敏感區域其實是有的"},{"start":4645.245,"end":4673.374,"text":"所以這個部分你們是可以介入做相關的加強巡檢所以流浪狗的管流浪犬的管理證明你們如果採用TNR補妝絕育回治意圖是要降低流浪犬隻的繁殖數量但是我們變成流浪犬隻卻成群結隊的攻擊其他的民眾或保育類的動物那我們來看這則新聞比特犬在4年前你們就把比特犬列為指定禁止飼養的輸"},{"start":4674.634,"end":4679.056,"text":"輸入的動物 飼養或輸入的動物這個政策好不好也好啊但陪他有沒有 沒有啊所以你們對於現有持有比特犬的飼主你要求他說你要來登記那真的登記了嗎好 那反而沒有登記的這個政策一出之後變成什麼大量的比特犬大量的棄養"},{"start":4700.966,"end":4716.777,"text":"所以他可能棄養之後他自己再跟其他的物種衍生了一些生育的問題所以那另外的流氧這個比特捲的氏族那你有沒有教育他也沒有啊所以光是你這個版本說加強氏族責任你們院版本出來之後會改善這樣的問題嗎我想可能等期點出來看你們會不會去做了好再來我們第一線的人員缺乏動物處置的專業我不講動檢員"},{"start":4731.086,"end":4752.17,"text":"好我不講洞檢委我就先講這個我不要講到那麼高層次你看了這個是今年的判決農業局啊桃園農業局的技工啊他遭判八個月但是他大概是在20大概前兩年的時候發生的就是東非的廢廢啊遭獵人獵殺六佛尊的一頭東非的廢廢遭圍捕食重擔身亡啦對獵人發出指令的是桃園市的農業局的前技工"},{"start":4760.651,"end":4784.165,"text":"但是獵人是沒事的 技工是有事的我認為為這位技工報平的地方是他找誰 他找獵人 獵人的專長是什麼他就是在獵殺動物 但是你說他不找獵人我們有專業的人力是安全捕抓的動物捕抓員嗎"},{"start":4785.646,"end":4802.736,"text":"安全捕捉的動物捕捉員這件事情有嗎沒有所以你叫公務人員他真的要去抓的時候他要叫誰沒有專業的安全捕捉的動物人員他請了獵人獵人不是動物不是安全捕捉的專業他們是獵殺動物的專業"},{"start":4805.618,"end":4812.905,"text":"所以這個是很冤枉的一件事 所以如果你的本你的這個版本出來之後 洞檢員的執法賦能我不曉得能不能解決這個狀況所以我才說 只是安全普照的專業人員 還不到洞檢員的層次喔光是這樣 你讓我基層的洞保人員 洞保的公務人員要下指令的時候 他要找誰"},{"start":4831.509,"end":4846.693,"text":"連安全補助都沒有所以農業部在規劃流浪犬隻的政策的時候忽略民眾或動物造成的負面影響而地方農政 這是你們中央地方農政雖然有動保處但是缺乏面對緊急突發狀況的動物保護的專業訓練沒有專業的"},{"start":4851.194,"end":4872.919,"text":"裝置器具也沒有相關的配套反映出中央地方政府對動保議題是什麼頭痛醫頭腳透音腳啊其實你的版本出來還是這樣啊所以本席有幾個建議啊第一個檢討現行的TNR政策禁止將流浪犬移入特定生態敏感區譬如石斧啦草蕭啊等保育動物"},{"start":4874.119,"end":4892.309,"text":"物種這個出沒的區域而且這些區域要強化專能巡檢針對這個動物流浪動物與保育野生動物的衝突你要制定前期的預防跟整合管理真的聽好 第二對於遭棄養且居高攻擊性的流浪物種尤其還要寒"},{"start":4893.61,"end":4907.588,"text":"他去混種衍生的犬隻喔這個東西你們怎麼去找出來所以制定於有別TNR的具體措施也就這些攻擊的物種你不能再實行TNR了把它掘渣之後再放置棄養的話我抓到再放置你要怎麼的管理啊"},{"start":4911.272,"end":4934.018,"text":"這才是重點啦 而且對現有的事主 既然你已經允許他保有他現有的這些比特權的部分那這些事主你要怎麼的訓練啊要不然他只要 他這個東西就是比特權 他站在後事主把他載在後面 天窗一開 他就是這樣跑出來去咬旁邊的機車主啊"},{"start":4936.317,"end":4955.688,"text":"所以這個是你們要去預防的第三個 中央統籌辦理 提升地方執行人員我說中央統籌你不要各地方政府在自己去辦因為到底什麼叫做安全的動物保護的專業訓練安全捕抓只是其中一項"},{"start":4957.27,"end":4976.391,"text":"所以對中央同學你要提升到中央才能是統一辦理全國只要有關相關地方執法的人員他的法規的常識他的專業的訓練通通都要有提高緊急事件的應變能力令第一線執行人員有足夠的職能履行部長你怎麼看"},{"start":4977.66,"end":4995.166,"text":"這三個建議非常謝謝委員的一些建議您所提的這些建議的確是一個問題而且我認為這邊寫的這三點主張我認為在不修法的過程中我們也應該要做那特別在那個TNR的部分我們現在已經就是有一個SOP就是說"},{"start":4995.726,"end":5010.752,"text":"在生態敏感區跟環境敏感區的部分我們在回治的時候就不去往那個地方去做回治這第一個部分第二個部分就是具高攻擊性的這些犬隻包括他的雜交犬後代的部分我也認同就是說"},{"start":5011.432,"end":5032.502,"text":"它跟有攻擊性跟沒攻擊性的它的回適的方式是絕對不一樣的所以這個部分我想不修法我們也會來做那第三個部分專業訓練我想我們也可以立即來做就是我要求我們的動保師那你對民間的收容所的部分怎麼處理那第四個部分的民間收容所我們也認同我個人認為認同這個方向但是相對的就是"},{"start":5033.602,"end":5043.484,"text":"可能要有一段的輔導期不然如果強制去納管造成衛生安全的時候沒有一個民間場如果合格的時候那個部長這樣啦我再重提請你們姜文泉姜師長提出來然後您來做核定做審查跟核定再提出一次的中長城的這個計畫而且是針對私人的這個動物保護場"},{"start":5061.688,"end":5075.594,"text":"那你一定會涉及說那個土地不是合法的用地我沒有意見你們看怎麼針對有合法用地沒有合法用地以及不能影響到周邊的居民的民眾的也不能影響到保護動物的這個部分我建議你還是提出中長程的計畫12年過了一四五成"},{"start":5083.317,"end":5110.499,"text":"本席所提的現在還是委員提出來所以這個部分你要不要這個評估一下提出中長期針對私人這個動物流浪犬貓的收容所的部分你要做一個中長程的計畫我想收容所的一個建制不管是公立的或私人的它是一致性但是後續的經費的比例可以有一部分的比例去做部長我現在是以立委的身份來支持你我知道"},{"start":5110.819,"end":5133.433,"text":"我現在是因為你公立受動用已經用了那一筆12年前我建議的部分挪用去做了我現在把你私人的 為什麼我倡議私人你要納入因為他也是你管啊有些過多的公立的部分是不是有可能也移到民間因為動物不像人啊 我人住在高雄住久了你要叫我搬到台北我會不適應啊"},{"start":5134.514,"end":5155.433,"text":"但是狗狗貓貓不是說他們沒有這個問題可是當哪一個地方他有容納的空間的時候你可以在私人跟公司之間你可以去怎麼樣的納有一個大水庫的納位我的想法是不是私人就私人公立而是公司是一體的因為我們的量要再增加這種收容的場所"},{"start":5158.035,"end":5169.303,"text":"是有限的 因為它是一個零幣設施嘛你設在哪裡人家就抗議嘛所以你只有就現有的私立的部分有可能可以納管在不影響民眾不影響保育的情況之下我們納管 環保做好"},{"start":5175.147,"end":5182.793,"text":"把水做好 把噪音做好該有的動物福利做好 做出幾個典範那這個是要你現有的預算是不夠的部長 是公司的空間要整合在一塊而不是獨立 你才有辦法去嘗試的把已經過量的公立收容所的部分 唱怎麼可能的納到民間來那民間的部分也因為有你們的輔導有愛心必定有專業 我一直強調有這個"},{"start":5203.667,"end":5217.274,"text":"包括他的動物福利的設施我最在意的就是那個污染跟噪音啊那個才是民怨之所在那你要輔導他要不然他一個人怎麼去面對那樣的污染呢排水系統的排是區域排水是地方政府在管這個污水處理這個部分也是地方政府在管可是你要不要跟他整合在管"},{"start":5224.737,"end":5252.159,"text":"要啊我們任何工廠的設立任何的機關私立的這個民宅的設立他都有法規規定你怎麼去接我地方的區域排水地方的污水系統所以你這個怎麼能夠獨立呢當然你一直都在如果你不處理私人的部分納入你公立的納管當中你永遠都沒有辦法處理解決那個量你永遠都沒有辦法去處理他那個污染跟噪音的問題好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":5256.124,"end":5276.391,"text":"謝謝 我們現在請鄭天才委員做詢答主席 委員 請部長部長好部長好 這個"},{"start":5284.81,"end":5307.471,"text":"今天的主題 動物保育法的修法 動物保護法那從原住民的觀點又不一樣從原住民文化和狩獵來看原住民以黑熊 我們就以黑熊作為為例當然各種動物又不太一樣"},{"start":5309.141,"end":5336.988,"text":"布農族看黑熊是友伴同盟尊敬恐懼大家比較不知道以為我們原住民就是專門去狩獵的其實不是這個在布農族裏的這個黑熊各不同的部落有不同的稱呼也有Dumas也有Dumas像阿美族是Dumai阿美族叫Dumai是這樣不同的一個稱呼各族群都有不同的"},{"start":5338.584,"end":5356.404,"text":"這個年輕的人他寫了一首詩黑熊是原住民生命中的一部分非常的貼切他是神話中的生命文學他被視為以人甚至比人更高一級的生命體所以這個部分這個從"},{"start":5358.922,"end":5379.821,"text":"原住民跟這個動物,野生動物之間其實上有非常多不同的一個關係好,我們看這個台灣黑熊剛才講過了,就不再講這個它是台灣唯一原產的熊類"},{"start":5382.531,"end":5392.457,"text":"這個過去被列為濱林節種野生動物但是目前已經在台灣也有200到600隻算不算還算不算濱林節種部長"},{"start":5397.316,"end":5422.629,"text":"在還沒有解除之前應該還是瀕臨絕種那現在的物種統計的情況之下它逐漸可能會變動而且我們要確定它是不是瀕臨絕種不能一個時間點看要看長期的一個監測好這個之所以黑熊會被列為瀕臨絕種主要的原因了解嗎主要的原因為什麼會越來越少"},{"start":5424.011,"end":5448.58,"text":"是以前啦 現在有比較增加了 他的族群數量越來越少那越來越少他有很多種原因包括這個棲地的問題包括我想獵捕的問題可能是非常少之有少但是可能是主要是棲地不適合他的時候造成族群的一個降低 完全正確主要是棲地我們很少獵捕這個黑熊主要是棲地事實上從1932年1932年日本"},{"start":5452.97,"end":5481.647,"text":"探險家傑川安氏的調查報告就提到土地開發導致黑熊的棲息地喪失主要是棲息地所以土地開發才是一個最重要的我之前一直也強調這個部分絕對跟不是跟原住民的狩獵有關係好我們看最近的一個情況去年"},{"start":5484.531,"end":5507.824,"text":"11月濁西鄉石坪部落海拔200到500公尺的雞舍遭黑熊入侵入侵400隻雞受損了總共有5個養雞場受到受傷害然後今年的1月"},{"start":5508.851,"end":5536.744,"text":"黑熊入侵這個養蜂場吃這個蜂蜜這個相關的這個也只有海拔這個石坪部落只有海拔317公尺這個相關的這些好今年的4月最近就這個月這個月這個部落中正濁西鄉的中正部落這個黑熊"},{"start":5539.084,"end":5562.825,"text":"這個對我們的雞還有狗都這個被侵蝕所以這個部分這個相關的這些被甚至人都受到威脅了距離住家這個被拍攝到的距離住家只有50幾公尺"},{"start":5565.115,"end":5592.706,"text":"只有50幾公尺所以對於我們的部落對我們的住家人身安全都受到很大的影響當然這些我們養的這些雞啊狗啊或是相關的這些動物都被受到嚴重的侵害所以反而現在怎麼樣我們一直講保護保護動物啊"},{"start":5594.395,"end":5620.981,"text":"現在是以這個案例來講啊怎麼樣保護我們的部落啊怎麼樣保護我們的人怎麼樣保護我們的所養殖的這些對不對所以從另外一個觀點不一樣啊所以在討論這個野生動物保護法的時候確實有它的不同的地方"},{"start":5622.368,"end":5646.476,"text":"所以這個部分當然有時候就產生一些不得不防身的地方就必須產生這些問題所以這個部分你看左西鄉的中正部落這個海拔只有170到220公尺跟早期的1000公尺以上的棲息地"},{"start":5647.312,"end":5669.806,"text":"已經不一樣了,所以要做不同的處理了所以這個部長,你看了之後有什麼樣的想法我想跟委員報告,就是在濁西鄉本身的歷次的黑熊的一個入侵到部落的範圍之內不是同一隻熊,是有不同隻熊"},{"start":5670.866,"end":5694.558,"text":"在入侵那同樣的就是說我們也非常關注就是原民部落本身的一個安全性就是有一些黑熊雖然說我們很尊重他在部落很尊重他但是必要的這些防範也是應該的所以我們透過那個生態給付的方式跟原民部落做共同的合作希望說原民部落如果發現到"},{"start":5695.919,"end":5715.749,"text":"黑熊的中繼的時候能立即通報那我們就有專業的捕捉人員能夠前往去做相關的捕捉所以只有透過這樣的一個合作方式才能夠避免我們的原民部落受到一些這些野生動物的一個攻擊事實上通報是來不及有案例我們的鄉親確實是通報"},{"start":5718.752,"end":5737.731,"text":"你們的人員其實是很演的我們也不能怪你們的人員所以這個部分這個機制怎麼樣去因應所以我們在談動物保護法的時候條文裡面怎麼樣去農業部也要去思考怎麼樣保護人類所以這個部分保護這些"},{"start":5740.404,"end":5741.364,"text":"我們現在請李玉玲委員做詢問"},{"start":5770.098,"end":5771.18,"text":"謝謝主席 請陳部長陳部長"},{"start":5780.472,"end":5806.917,"text":"部長在這幾個月都有不斷傳出說比特犬有攻擊的事件尤其是3月份在台北就有比特犬惡毒的咬人的事情那在4月份的時候又屏東又出現狗咬狗比特犬去咬柴犬結果這個柴犬傷重而離世而這個比特犬我們經過調查之後的話它是未完成寵物登記或"},{"start":5807.577,"end":5833.142,"text":"可絕育的這個情形那當然市主也因為動保法被裁罰了但是我們在2022年的3月1號我們也有要求比特犬是禁止飼養跟輸入的動物這農業部都已經做了但是現在發生了這個沒有登記完成的那有登記完成在目前造冊的有3974隻那沒有沒有"},{"start":5837.642,"end":5843.474,"text":"登記跟決議的這個比特權 你們有什麼手 有什麼方式來做這個稽查"},{"start":5844.875,"end":5867.495,"text":"我想這也是我們農業部的一個困擾就是說當我們就做禁止然後叫他們來登記的時候那一定有一些黑樹啦那這些黑樹一旦被抓到的話那等出事之後再罰就是了不是本末倒置了對 但是相對的我們一定會加強宣導透過地方政府去加強宣導那宣導的時候他不出來我們也沒辦法如果如果有人透過檢舉"},{"start":5868.876,"end":5887.942,"text":"方式或是工具手段的嗎我們現在就是說可以透過現在一直發生這種工人事件 夭壽這種悲劇的情形你不要說沒辦法不是 我剛才講沒辦法就是說永遠在登記的時候永遠有一些黑數那這些黑數我們第一個就是要讓他宣導 讓他知道"},{"start":5888.562,"end":5910.276,"text":"那他如果知道而不出來的時候那他一定會帶狗出來外面散步的時候你怎麼查然後透過沒有他散步的時候透過一些檢舉的方式通報的方式我們就可以去追蹤誰會跟你通報我想還是有一些人民看到民眾看到的時候都會來通報的部分他通報他怎麼知道這狗沒有植入晶片或者是沒有登記"},{"start":5912.401,"end":5925.108,"text":"他看到這比特權的部分如果說他沒有依照相關的規範去去做遷移的時候那相對的本身民眾就可以來通報通報的話我們地方的動保檢查人員就會去去查訪"},{"start":5926.038,"end":5943.36,"text":"一定要去稽查 因為很多黑素像這次狗咬狗的情形就是黑素好不好那因為這個動保法我們已經你們農業部已經在去年的8月已經送到行政院到現在什麼時候要送到立法院"},{"start":5944.69,"end":5972.44,"text":"我們已經質詢好幾次了欸都是巡打沒有辦法處理就是因為沒有你們的版本我跟委員報告齁我剛才在報告的時候有講我們現在動法修正在行政院已經審查完畢只在院會通過就可以送到行政院那我會盡快的跟行政院溝通能夠在下一次的院會排進去的時候五月就可以送進來你們每一次都回答我說年底就會送進來過了好幾個年了年底都沒有送進來沒有喔那個"},{"start":5974.075,"end":6001.873,"text":"因為您當召委的時候有排過一次齁那那個時候我們也如期送到行政院那行政院因為還有很多法案被排審希望你們趕快催促啦好不好趕快催促那因為本席會這麼提的話就是因為我們在動保法裡面其中的20條的第二項裡面針對有攻擊性的這個寵物出入公共場所的時候我們要有防範的措施齁不管是成人陪伴或者有要求說可以的話就要簽審嘛"},{"start":6003.574,"end":6031.091,"text":"有牽繩的方式的話那之前部長回答說因為是各縣市各自處理那我們希望統一的方式來處理那也希望說我們農業部要把這條牽繩的這部分把列入參考列入這個規範好不好我們一定把它放進去一定要列入因為這個不同的犬隻的類型大小不一樣如果飼主啊你如果說不當著飼養小狗會變惡犬"},{"start":6032.612,"end":6054.146,"text":"對不對所以一定要好好的規範好不好那接下來要討論的就是說我們的糧食的自給率的下降這個糧食自給率我們看到我們在2011年的時候有針對於我們這個糧食供需這個年報裡面也有要求說希望我們的自給率可以達到40%"},{"start":6056.067,"end":6085.622,"text":"但是逐年一直下降到現在剩下的30%那在2011年我們就訂說在2020年的話我們要達到40%現在還是沒有達到那部長在這方面的話我們可以如何去訂定我們的期程或時程能夠給這個自給率能夠提高好 謝謝委員的關心我第一個要說明的就是糧食自給率不等於糧食安全那糧食自給率它是一個進口出口之間的關係我如果減少出口增加"},{"start":6086.443,"end":6090.631,"text":"減少出口減少進口的部分 增加出口的部分那你的一收現在30%是安全嗎"},{"start":6092.267,"end":6120.645,"text":"不是 我剛才說糧食自給率是一件事情它不是說糧食自給率低我們的糧食安全就低那要看糧食安全的品項我們在糧食安全的時候我們有針對主要的糧食那主要的糧食像稻米我們的自給率是百分之百我們蔬菜是百分之八十幾所以要看我們的糧食安全是要看我們的主食跟副食的部分可是你們既然訂出這個目標是要達到百分之四十嗎那你們有預估什麼時程可以達到百分之四十我個人很坦白講"},{"start":6122.106,"end":6141.954,"text":"當年很早大概十幾年前就定在40%那個是一個願景一個目標那我們就朝向這個目標在走那現在會拉糧食製魚往下拉最主要就是我們的所有的黃小玉的飼料為主的這些原物料都是進口的對大部分的進口啊都是這個部分拉下來的"},{"start":6144.235,"end":6159.235,"text":"所以就是因為我們都依賴進口所以沒有給自給力不高那萬一有什麼環境時空背景的話讓我們進口進步來怎麼辦所以我們現在就是說我們找到糧食自給力下降是因為飼料的部分進口所以我們現在"},{"start":6160.376,"end":6174.812,"text":"做了很多對地綠色給付還有雜糧轉做就是這個目的我們希望說這些雜糧的種子能夠拉高以後那自給率就會上升我們是朝這個方向來走好所以您這樣講的話那部長因為齁這個美國這個"},{"start":6178.601,"end":6205.579,"text":"我們大部分都在美國進口這個黃小玉嘛對不對那因為黃小玉我們都依賴進口那美國這一次因為這個貿易的逆差要調高這個關稅到32%那現在雖然暫緩了90天但是要做一個談判的這個節奏在各部會的話在調整說怎麼去購買美國的那個產品那尤其是部長這邊有提到要增加對美國黃小玉的採購那請問部長"},{"start":6208.261,"end":6222.032,"text":"黃小玉的採購的話這個雜糧的部分的話我們在對黃豆跟小麥跟玉米我們的自給率非常低非常低都是0點多而已尤其是這個在2016年到2023年的話我們看到黃豆的自給率只有0.18"},{"start":6226.636,"end":6252.75,"text":"小麥的話0.35還有玉米的話才會多一點才2.98%那你看其他世界各國在鄰近我們這附近的話你看日本的話是38%他們的糧食供應是38%還有韓國的話是45%的自給率我們在這方面的話我們是不是有要提高它但是你又碰到說像美國你要提高黃小玉的擴大購買"},{"start":6254.011,"end":6278.772,"text":"增加購買的話 那你又要讓我們的農民要推廣他們對雜糧的這個轉作你特別提到的 就是說一轉對於綠色環境給付的這個計畫 一級二轉 三加三 這個部分那你要如何去讓農民能夠安心 我種的這個黃小玉可以保障他的收購價格 因為"},{"start":6279.735,"end":6299.483,"text":"你看美國的部分的話他的黃小玉在品質上或者是他價格上都比較優厚啊那農民的話你這樣子的話農民更不敢去種這個雜糧的部分啊我要跟委員報告就是說就成如你剛才說的我們自己做的我們的自有力非常低所以進口跟"},{"start":6300.283,"end":6327.519,"text":"進口跟我們自己種的它有一個平衡比在那邊以黃豆來講我們的黃豆最主要是實用可是我們進口用的黃豆最主要是炸油所以它有市場區隔那小麥的部分因為美國的小麥它的筋性是比較符合我們的一些飲用品質那台灣的麵粉小麥的筋性是比較適合做餅乾之類的或其他麵條之類的所以它也有市場區隔那同樣玉米也是一樣所以我們會"},{"start":6328.76,"end":6356.722,"text":"用大量進口用大宗採購的方式是希望降低成本因為飼料是我們的畜牧產業很重要的成本之一所以我們透過大量的進口以後去降低成本能夠讓我們的畜產業的飼料所以部長你要提醒你的就是你要記得自給率的問題你不能完全靠進口我們剛剛提到說不管是環境或者是整個持空背景萬一進不來的時候"},{"start":6357.503,"end":6380.657,"text":"我們可以有個自己的自給力才能夠保障那現在你要農民轉做這個雜糧的話你要什麼誘因去保障它就是價格上的能夠保障收購讓他們才種得下去才能夠賣得出去這是最重要的部分嘛所以在這部分的話我希望你能夠做調整你們的政策你們的計畫都做出來了一轉二做三加三的話"},{"start":6381.297,"end":6399.797,"text":"你都已經提出來了但是你現在又提個要擴大對美國的採購對農民他們會擔心我種下去到時候價格又降下來我賣不出去怎麼辦所以請你們要嚴格審查而且要保障農民他的權益有保障收購的制度好不好"},{"start":6400.097,"end":6420.312,"text":"好 謝謝委員的提醒我們針對我們現在推動的一級二轉參加餐本身對於飼料對於玉米的部分種植的部分我們在續產會那邊有一個收購的機制在那邊我們也絕對不會因為進口量變多而影響到農民的權益這個絕對不會發生的我們一定會確保農民的生意"},{"start":6420.472,"end":6436.641,"text":"不要一直都靠進口了 自給率要來提高提高這自給率好不好那你那個10成整個你的40%的這個自給率的部分那糧食的自給率部分你要把這個10成跟整個規劃出來好不好我們努力會來朝這個方向來做2030年可以嗎你現在訂2020年嘛現在給你10年時間達不到40%嗎我講坦白話可能2030年也達不到40%"},{"start":6447.746,"end":6469.943,"text":"至少要提高我們會提高我們會朝這個目標所以我剛才說我會從品項來看有些品項是跟量產業有關的我們會盡量拉高把整個時程跟目標產項都把它定出來把這表格送給美食我們會 好好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝我們先做一下宣告在楊瓊英委員結束後休息五分鐘現在請鄭正前委員做詢答"},{"start":6480.594,"end":6503.984,"text":"謝謝主席我想請問農業部陳部長陳部長部長好非常感謝主席今天特別安排動保法的一個法案修法的審查那我想說先請教一下部長你知道全球第一個動物餐廳寵物餐廳在什麼地方嗎"},{"start":6505.598,"end":6527.098,"text":"全球我不是很清楚沒關係因為這問題很小可是因為全球第一個寵物餐廳其實在台灣在台北士林它充分反映了台灣人就是很有愛心然後也很有創意的一個狀態那在寵物餐廳的時候其實就讓很多動物它可以陪伴人一起在"},{"start":6527.738,"end":6556.309,"text":"吃飯喝茶享受這個部分所以這個部分我覺得某個部分也是台灣很有創意的一個表現那事實上現在其實有很多寵物餐廳不只是貓狗部分還包括有兔子、貓頭鷹、山羊等等很多種不同的寵物餐廳不過因為從那個2019年COVID-19開始的時候那國際上對於這樣的一個所謂的動物餐廳其實也開始有一些的一個反省跟調整像韓國他們在2023年就直接"},{"start":6557.089,"end":6583.027,"text":"就是開始禁止這樣的一個動物餐廳那他們考量點是因為人畜共通傳染病的問題那英國他們對於所謂的一個貓咪餐廳他們也在重新再做一個檢討那我想說請教一下部長在這個部分就是說我們目前台灣的這個所謂的動物餐廳這些動物餐廳他們需不需要去申請動物展演場所"},{"start":6584.305,"end":6609.364,"text":"我跟委員報告這要分不同的情況那基本上如果在餐廳有展演的行為的話那是一定要的那有一些特定的你如果在餐廳裡面特定的時間特定的時段然後讓寵物在那邊做一些活動那這個就需要做登記但是有一些家裡有養貓或養狗他可能就放在那邊那那個東西就不需要申請"},{"start":6611.105,"end":6625.772,"text":"所以說你在這個報告當中你有特別提到說目前台灣有95家的一個那個動物展演場所裡面有所謂的寵物餐廳或動物餐廳在裡面嗎有在裡面裡面有部分的動物餐廳是在裡面的"},{"start":6626.972,"end":6643.878,"text":"是在裡面的OK那我想說要特別提到這狀態就是說因為針對整個龍出宮傳染病這樣子的一個問題當中的時候我想我們也希望針對這樣子的一個寵物餐廳因為確實就像那個部長剛剛提到的因為有很多"},{"start":6646.319,"end":6674.938,"text":"熱愛寵物的店主他們很多時候就把家裡的寵物帶到工作場合去那可能不一定是我們所謂的一個展演的場所可是我們希望這部分能夠加以去規範因為這不只是對於整個動物的福利來說對於我們的一個公衛的問題也是一個很重要的部分所以我們希望說整個農業部可以針對這部分的時候去進行進一步的一個去管理這部分有沒有問題"},{"start":6675.578,"end":6698.292,"text":"我想謝謝委員的一個關心也提醒那我想後續就算他不需要許可的時候那我們也會去宣導去落實他的寵物的登記第一個登記 登記以後他後面的這些疫苗的注射有沒有也會接到我們的後面的管理的系統裡面去所以這個部分我們會去更關心這些人序共通的這些傳染病"},{"start":6698.612,"end":6720.381,"text":"OK那我想說這是一個很好的狀態不過你剛剛特別提到說寵物可能針對貓狗的部分只是現在動物餐廳其實它很多元所以我接下來我想請教一下就是說部長就是說我們現在對於網路上面在販售活體寵物這個部分的時候有沒有特別的一個規範"},{"start":6721.474,"end":6741.273,"text":"如果你在網路販售寵物的時候你必須要有特種登記證要在你的網路的廣告欄裡面要有登記證的字號那因為所有的特種的寵物做寵物營業就要有申請那申請水果就有登記證你一定要有那個登記證你如果沒有那個登記證你就是違法"},{"start":6741.824,"end":6765.926,"text":"部長沒有問題 因為你特別提到特種寵物我們對於特寵的部分其實是有專法在管理的那對於異寵的部分 請問目前有沒有這樣的一個管理的準備很抱歉的 目前沒有 雖然目前沒有那你知道是不是現在我們在異寵的部分你知道在網路上面販售的種類有多少樣你知道嗎 多少物種你知道"},{"start":6766.874,"end":6790.27,"text":"一定很難 這具體數字大概都很少可是跟部長特別報告有一兩千種的一個異蟲的狀態在網路上面販售這是媒體這邊報導出來的一個狀態所以表示說我們特蟲其實有專法可是對異蟲的部分其實完全沒有一個法可以去管的時候所以我這邊因為今天是我們動保法的一個聲明我想針對這個部分我們農業部這邊會不會針對異蟲的部分也會有準備要加以去規範去管理"},{"start":6797.494,"end":6817.563,"text":"我跟委員報告我們要處理異寵的這些管理的時候登記的時候第一個我們就會要進行寵物的分級分類的管理那分級分類有些是禁止的有一些在特定情況是許可的有些是一般性的那一般性的就可以回到特寵這邊來管理然後對於禁止的部分我們就不會讓他去做飼養"},{"start":6818.183,"end":6844.829,"text":"你說一般性的會回到特寵這邊來管理對 就是當你可以飼養的時候我們就會逐漸滾動到我們的特種這個業者裡面去管理針對這個部分部長因為針對這個部分可不可以有更具體的一個內容因為坦白說我最近碰到了很多的一個動保團體包括說他們防止虐待的一個動物團體這樣的協會那也碰到了很多異寵相關的業者"},{"start":6848.23,"end":6871.078,"text":"他們很多的一個協會一起來澄清這件事情他們有幾個訴求第一個希望說我們對於整個異寵的部分也能夠有更具體的一個法規的一個管理讓他們自己有一個很具體的一個遵循的一個方向那麼對於整個網路上面的一個異寵的一個販售的時候我們希望"},{"start":6871.798,"end":6890.256,"text":"能夠嚴加禁止因為現在很多異寵在網路上販售打廣告因為特寵可以那異寵在他們打廣告之後的時候呢很多的一個運輸的狀態很多的小動物都死在這運輸當中的過程因為語法沒有管"},{"start":6890.876,"end":6914.384,"text":"所以大家就隨便做都產生很多的一個亂象出來所以針對這個異蟲的部分的時候是不是可以請部長針對因為我知道異蟲的種類太多了像你剛剛也講到了一個有很多異蟲的狀態也分很多種可是我在想說我們還是必須要給他們有一個比較好的規範讓他們能夠有一個遵循的方向"},{"start":6914.924,"end":6922.173,"text":"那針對這部分的時候可不可以請農業部這邊加加油那針對異蟲的部分我們有更好的一個管制的一個規範出來"},{"start":6923.68,"end":6949.08,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒那您剛才講的就是說你如果有即時的合法登記證在網路購買那我們會有規範跟指引去要求它的運輸的條件我覺得這個蠻重要的那第二個部分針對異蟲的部分那我們現在持續在做溝通你也知道在異蟲裡面禁止飼養的部分前一陣子到的非常多的一些不同的聲音那我們持續在做溝通我想沒有"},{"start":6950.601,"end":6978.949,"text":"不能溝通的啦所以我想在這個部分如果沒有達到共識之前我們不會貿然的去做這個分級跟分類一定要有共識的情況那我在想說因為針對這部分我們今天聊到這部分的時候就是針對整個網路的平台業者這個部分的時候我們也希望能夠強加管理跟要求如果在網路上面有一些不當的內容的時候我們希望政府有權利然後能夠要求這些平台業者下架"},{"start":6979.609,"end":6999.774,"text":"這個部分可不可以要求我們在這次修法就有納入了那這樣很好那另外一個部分就針對於比方說台灣人其實很有愛心可是呢也會發生很多虐待動物的一個行為發生所以針對這部分我們也希望能夠加強加重罰則所以這部分我們也都在做有在修法裡面"},{"start":7000.834,"end":7028.696,"text":"那最後一個部分我想針對有關於遊蕩犬的一個部分因為那個我看到就是部長你報告當中的時候針對遊蕩犬你也花了很多的一個篇幅那目前的時候因為這個月的時候在新竹南寮地區的時候又發生遊蕩犬傷人的事件那我們農業部對於遊蕩犬傷人的統計有沒有一個全面性的一個去做一個"},{"start":7031.043,"end":7050.048,"text":"統計的一個狀態我想第一個我們能夠掌握現在遊蕩犬的數量比上次統計上次統計是15.9萬現在已經到了11.4萬所以遊蕩犬的數量是在下降但是至於說咬人的部分我們現在我手邊現在目前並沒有這個數據"},{"start":7051.388,"end":7074.403,"text":"OK 部長這就是我要特別講的狀態因為我們每兩年其實政府這邊會針對遊蕩犬的數量去做一個調查每兩年會調查一次那我發現其實教育部跟交通部他們都對於遊蕩犬跟人產生的一些衝突都有一些統計可是我們農業部主管反而沒有那我看你報告這邊有講到說"},{"start":7077.205,"end":7101.287,"text":"經統計媒體的報導的數量是減低的可是因為媒體報導不一定是每個案件都會出來所以我們希望能夠有官方的一個統計針對這部分然後能夠來好好來解決遊蕩犬相關的問題因為我發現你對遊蕩犬這邊你確實有些琢磨那我們也希望就是你這邊有提到說我們下一個階段要再增加就是各地方的一個收容量的問題"},{"start":7102.668,"end":7122.601,"text":"那我們也希望好好的去做那對於林菩薩這邊也能夠真正去落實好不好好謝謝委員提醒我想針對這個遊盪犬攻擊人的事件我想我們會有重新做一個有系統的調查這樣的話才能夠掌握這樣的一個案件跟數據OK好謝謝部長好謝謝好謝謝我們現在請陳廷飛委員做詢問"},{"start":7134.645,"end":7157.84,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請陳部長今天我的議題比較多 那你就簡單回答我想今天我們在談這個動保法 我們已經等很久了終於我們也看到我們的一個修正公告的一個狀況"},{"start":7159.801,"end":7183.067,"text":"我要必須請教的是現在兩個非常重要的議題這個在我的修法版本裡面都有就是說我們怎麼去更詳盡規範我們對寵物的飼主管理的責任更能夠加重在於如果飼主虐待或是故意傷害宰殺動物的行者這個部分我們怎麼做"},{"start":7184.4,"end":7214.013,"text":"我想針對這個虐待跟宰殺的部分我們會再加重刑罰加重刑責的部分這個刑責的部分我們在這次修法都有就有放進去都有放進去所以這個部分是我們從過去到現在我們愛動物的人士其實一直看待看到心裡都很痛的部分所以這個部分我們在這次動保法裡面有嚴格再去加強做一個修正"},{"start":7214.634,"end":7229.028,"text":"還有一個我跟委員補充就是委員非常關心的就是另外一個方式就是棄養那過去棄養的時候沒有很明確的界定什麼叫棄養所以這次的修法裡面也納入了比較明確的棄養就是說"},{"start":7230.249,"end":7248.972,"text":"當你不要養的時候你一定要經過收容的這個程序你才能夠所以有一個SOP啦就是說你如果說你要棄養你不能隨便丟你要經過整個收容的整個過程有一個SOP不是說不行就是說你如果"},{"start":7250.073,"end":7264.705,"text":"養寵物養到你自己覺得你的經濟能力有問題了你想把它能夠找一個比較好安置的地方可以透過收容不要棄養對 這個也是委員之前關心的對 我們一直在強調的那第二個部分就是說"},{"start":7265.606,"end":7284.1,"text":"在我們現在看到很多寵物出入公共場所那因為沒有做好很好的防護措施而造成別人一般民眾或是動物的傷害那這個部分呢現在這幾天這一段時間最多的就是比特犬那這個部分我們怎麼做"},{"start":7285.117,"end":7300.479,"text":"在比特犬的部分雖然說我們已經列入了相關的這些禁止飼養而有強制登記但是相對的這些登記有一些黑數的部分我們會盡量再把這個黑數找出來那更重要一點就是以比特犬跳窗這個案件來講"},{"start":7301.36,"end":7317.372,"text":"他之前已經傷害過一次了可是我們現在開始在做規劃就是說當這個具有攻擊性的犬隻你如果施主沒有盡到責任咬到人的時候我就會沒路一次就沒路而不是讓他用裁發的方式去處理"},{"start":7318.012,"end":7345.007,"text":"除了没入之后呢在我们相对的对于一般民众跟动物的保护该怎么办就是说他今天如果因为这个宠物出入公共场所然后没有做好一个适当的防护措施造成人或动物的伤害这个部分除了没入这个犬吃这个没有问题可是下一步其他的呢"},{"start":7345.649,"end":7361.131,"text":"我想我們基本上像這些比較具攻擊性的我們出門一定有一定的規範包括事主的責任就是你的鏈條的長度你的戴口罩然後你一定要成年人才能夠戴出去這些規範都有你如果沒有"},{"start":7361.852,"end":7382.609,"text":"有這個規範然後造成了傷害的時候你那個行者是會被加重的所以就會有行者加重的問題所以我們這一次有把它很清楚的訂了SOP就是說你今天把我們的寵物帶出去如果是一個比較有攻擊性的一些犬隻可能我們要做到什麼樣的防護"},{"start":7383.57,"end":7402.358,"text":"SOP都有了那如果沒有造成傷害那麼就會有加重刑責的部分說真的我們希望進到更多的呼籲跟宣導我說真的這是最後這個刑責都是最後那我們前面宣導很重要"},{"start":7403.018,"end":7424.184,"text":"這也拜託我們的農業部就是說我們訂了這些SOP我剛剛所講的就是市主的管養責任還有我們市主帶出去應該有的一些防護措施這些都已經有SOP了在這一次的動保法裡面我們要去宣傳要讓大家更知道了解而不修完之後"},{"start":7424.804,"end":7449.151,"text":"就不見了大家不知道應該更清楚讓大家知道你該怎麼做然後如果沒有怎麼做你就會有怎麼樣的一個刑責跟處罰所以包括棄養的部分現在也有一定的程序所以我覺得這個都要把它做很清楚的一些公佈跟宣導這個再拜託我們的部長謝謝委員的提醒我們會加強來做然後呢"},{"start":7449.691,"end":7450.492,"text":"現在台南的土地很多"},{"start":7467.418,"end":7491.327,"text":"只能清飯去啊 要洗啊 啊這五百萬清菜基本上都馬上就達到這個標準其實一個很小的地喔所以他們說這個部分該怎麼辦難道都沒有檢討的機制嗎我跟委員報告齁其實這個部分其實以農業部來講我們內部就有一些檢討而且行政院也有做一些溝通那現在就是說"},{"start":7492.769,"end":7509.663,"text":"農業部的老農津貼牌部的條款我們有一些設計但是整個是要跟其他的八大社福的津貼要一致性那現在正在做溝通因為當時候我們在處理這一塊我們有討論過希望說是不是可以照著什麼樣的一個指數調整可是"},{"start":7511.424,"end":7533.743,"text":"當時候有很多就像你講的要搭八大社福津貼下去做調整所以我覺得這個部分因為牽扯的就是我們的市值的問題現在整個市值物價都往上提升所以包括我們八大社福津貼都應該一致性的調整"},{"start":7534.343,"end":7563.163,"text":"我覺得應該是這個樣子 因為已經沒有辦法跟著上整個世代潮流的一個轉變了所以大家都站在這裡恐怖結果我們的社福今天還在一個最基本數所以這個是不對的所以我拜託部長這個部分是我們這段時間在走訪基層的時候所有農民每一個人大概都提出這樣的意見他說沒辦法我們農民都被排掉了是"},{"start":7564.023,"end":7585.168,"text":"馬上就被排掉了而且那是很小喔很小的一塊地喔那我們也感同身受因為我們希望是地方的發展台南的發展發展之後得給的撲阿這是相對的嘛所以我覺得這個部分拜託我們的部長多久你可以有一個方向跟我們的相關單位去討論"},{"start":7586.688,"end":7604.757,"text":"我想我們農業部在內部的評估其實我們已經有完整的評估但是我們也提到了行政院去做討論所以我會把我們這段時間不只您還有很多地方的聲音都有這個議題我會再跟行政院反映看看可不可以在中間啟動"},{"start":7608.519,"end":7629.986,"text":"一定要重新啟動我個人是覺得說是應該要調整啦所以我會再跟行政院來反映再拜託啦我覺得我們也會跟院長去報告這件事情那另外就是說部長在這一次我們的特別條例特別預算裡面我們農業在這一次關稅的衝擊所編列的預算太少了吧"},{"start":7630.982,"end":7644.128,"text":"我跟委員報告我們編列現在目前編列是181億但是有一個現在比較困擾的地方就是現在的關稅32%是暫緩實施90天是以10%的基準關稅為主所以它的關稅還沒確定之下以現在10%我們覺得現在這10%裡面181億是可以去支持的"},{"start":7653.692,"end":7682.791,"text":"但是未來如果有調整的時候請問這個彈性是誰在定你現在送出來就180億啊而且部長我再跟你強調一點你還記得在第一時間發生的時候就在這個質詢台當中我就跟您就教蝴蝶蘭的問題也請你一個月要提出我們在蝴蝶蘭轉移陣地轉移基地到美國台堂基地去做這樣的一個聯盟機制"},{"start":7683.772,"end":7690.419,"text":"打一個台灣隊打一個國家隊這個很重要但是這個部分你預算好像沒看到"},{"start":7692.541,"end":7719.352,"text":"這個部分是在增加對外投資的部分對外投資啊可是也在農業部的部分相對的我們有把這個議題列入就是說當他到美國去的時候他的一些融資有沒有他的一些融資的減免的部分利息減免你只有融資減免你知道他如果一個產業要去到美國台糖基地就只有融資嗎"},{"start":7721.133,"end":7729.633,"text":"救救融資嗎 你有沒有看到我們經濟部我們經濟部在企業的一個協助當中跟我們農業差太多了吧"},{"start":7731.448,"end":7759.025,"text":"部長猜太多了吧所以在這個國際競爭力當中胡鐵人剛好是一個很重要的標的剛好有台塘基地如果你沒有這個台塘基地他也沒有辦法剛好有這個台塘基地他可以依照台塘基地讓我們的產業進駐然後協助產業去做一個聯盟打一個國家隊這個部分你們要列入優先啊"},{"start":7760.146,"end":7778.514,"text":"跟我們報告 福田產業我也親自跟業者座談了然後針對台糖的基地我們現在也在跟台糖那邊去協調我知道你們有在談我的意思是說你沒有協助經費的到位轉型我告訴你這些廠商要怎麼有信心呢這是第一點 所以我拜託"},{"start":7779.614,"end":7799.822,"text":"你這個部分你一定要增加進去第二個就是我們的台灣雕其實在台灣雕 台南端兩項最重要而且所有節目比例最關鍵的一個就是蝴蝶蘭 一個就是台灣雕所以台灣雕你知道嗎我們現在不能只有把眼睛放在我們的美國"},{"start":7800.962,"end":7820.283,"text":"也就是把雞蛋放在美國的這個籃子裡我們勢必是要把所有世界各國的通路都找進來所以台灣雕什麼很重要整個的加工製造很重要對不對我們現在台灣雕說真的它是可以做成"},{"start":7821.224,"end":7843.113,"text":"真空然後完全食材都在裡面他只要加熱這符合外國他實用的一個習慣放下去加熱之後就可以用了所以我們要怎麼把這個加工增加加強跟我們的產業給他們更有信心這個也是我們這一波一定要加強這個已經放進去包括"},{"start":7843.893,"end":7851.319,"text":"那個台灣雕的魚片魚凍條跟整個生鮮生鮮的部分生鮮的部分我是說加工加工真空加工等等你的預算是納入預算不夠啊部長"},{"start":7859.465,"end":7884.298,"text":"現在我們就要利用這一波給予更多的支持我是可以提醒了因為我在台南我很清楚蝴蝶蘭跟台灣貂是我們兩個很重要的指標在這一波關稅的影響而且它佔的比例是全國最高所以這個部分麻煩一下我們需要的這些是協助經費的協助讓我們有感謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":7890.091,"end":7901.99,"text":"謝謝 接下來我們請謝玉鳳召委請做巡檔謝謝主席 我想要請陳部長我們請部長"},{"start":7909.895,"end":7921.487,"text":"委員好部長好其實動保法我看到今天所有委員都非常關注行政院的版本我想要請教一下行政院的版本什麼時候會送進來"},{"start":7923.905,"end":7942.707,"text":"我跟委員報告行政院我們去年8月送到行政院行政院的內部的法規會審議已經完成了那就剩最後一個階段就是要通過行政院院會就可以送立法院我想我會盡快的跟行政院聯絡盡快的排到院會裡面去做報告以後"},{"start":7942.927,"end":7959.978,"text":"你有沒有信心啊你有沒有信心真的下一次院會就可以送出來啊是不是大家都在關心嘛這個沒有什麼爭議的有非常多的條文都沒有爭議我想我會進行溝通在下個禮拜的院會看可不可以排進去排進去完了以後就可以送送出來了你有沒有去溝通啊"},{"start":7962.028,"end":7986.051,"text":"因為院會裡面排的一些案子我們還是有跟有優先次序嘛我們還是有我知道我知道可是這個東西沒有沒有爭議的是不是能夠緊迫的送進來我希望朝向下個下個禮拜看會排進院會然後排進院會以後我們在5月的上旬所以你也沒有信心你沒有信心下次有有好謝謝希望你要有信心我們下次排進去"},{"start":7986.972,"end":8013.284,"text":"還有我去年去到日本的時候因為疫情結束了現在觀光客都進到日本去造成日本的米荒以及日本的米價格都上漲了你認為這是一個很好的機會讓我們台灣的稻米可以出口到日本畢竟我們台灣的稻米跟日本的稻米是非常相像的就是"},{"start":8014.405,"end":8025.185,"text":"大家食用的習慣以及米的品種都非常的相似在這樣的情況下有沒有辦法促成台灣米進口到日本"},{"start":8026.188,"end":8047.43,"text":"謝謝委員的關心那的確這一年多來日本的稻米它的量不夠的時候那我們預估往年我們每一年外銷的量大概是三千多噸今年我們預估可以到一萬兩千到一萬三千噸可以足足增加一萬噸那現在我們跟日本在談的其實日本的"},{"start":8049.911,"end":8072.337,"text":"1萬噸喔 以前只有3000多噸而已所以我想我們會努力像委員一直關心這個U值米的外銷那我們也朝這個方向來努力啦那特別是一些極端產區這次的極端產區有很多業者都跟日本有一些合約的訂購所以我們預估這個米在今年度會有比較多的外銷成長"},{"start":8073.206,"end":8087.933,"text":"因為我看到了4月25日的時候你們的胡刺有到日本去嗎還有跟一些團扇跟一些當地的米的進口的業者有進行座談嗎那我不曉得說這樣子的一個進展"},{"start":8088.393,"end":8116.769,"text":"未來會不會加速以及過去以來就是說根據WTO的規範只有開放10萬公噸的稻米想關稅的優惠那但是這個10萬公噸有沒有是各國分配不是全部都給台灣嗎那台灣只有分配到1萬公噸那這個部分有沒有辦法再增加呢我想對日本的部分一部分是"},{"start":8118.571,"end":8144.532,"text":"關稅配額內的關稅 配額內的部分那其實配額外的關稅如果能夠適度的調降的話對台灣也是有機會的配額內 你所謂的配額內沒有 有配額嘛配額內配額內的部分它現在的總量是有管制的但是配額外它的關稅用該高關稅的方式去處理那我們希望說能夠在配額外的關稅能夠做適度的調整"},{"start":8145.192,"end":8164.677,"text":"那這樣的話我們的米的競爭力就會夠那第二個部分就算他現在關稅不調降的情況之下其實我們還有很多台灣的有機米跟U子米還是外銷到日本表示說我們加上關稅的一個價格在他的高端市場還是有潛力的"},{"start":8165.157,"end":8179.387,"text":"因為其實不只在高端市場在平價市場你看日本的米的價格5公斤是4,026日元等同大概915元左右的台幣"},{"start":8183.55,"end":8202.436,"text":"那我们目前以台湾的就是说彰化县的米价来讲平均的零售价格也在5公斤在225元左右所以日本的零售米价超市的零售米价是我们的4到5倍"},{"start":8204.176,"end":8225.064,"text":"所以如果我們的稻米能夠輸到日本去即便有少許的關稅對於我們還是很大的利基啊是不是是我剛才說的就是說就像配合的關稅高以現在的價差來講還是有它的一個利基所以我們現在更積極的跟國外日本的通路商在做連結"},{"start":8226.264,"end":8250.817,"text":"那這樣子連結到了以後像我們跟西武的那個西鐵的那個鐵道公司還有很多大的通路公司在合作那後續就會幫我們的像包括彰化有很多極端產區的部分我們就會將這些優質米能夠透過這個渠道進到日本市場對因為過去像這個一萬公噸的這個配額有時候是掌握在少數的日本商社手上對不對"},{"start":8251.938,"end":8267.719,"text":"那一般的業者沒有辦法找到這些入口的就是要出口的這樣子的一個管道那我們要怎麼樣協助其實我們也在做就是就像您說的配額內的有一些掌握特定的商社"},{"start":8268.32,"end":8282.285,"text":"那這些特定的商社他也有一些特定的廠商那我們也在跟他談是不是有一些是可以我們推薦一些比較優質的這些米讓他來選擇這樣的話也是另外一個機會能夠讓我們的稻米能夠外交到日本"},{"start":8283.585,"end":8308.962,"text":"還有就是過去我們台灣米進口到日本的市場我們主要都是業務用米或者是到監獄這樣子其實對於米價是沒有幫助的那未來如果我們要進口到日本的市場那我們一定要走零售的嗎一定要走高單價的通路嗎那這個部分怎麼樣子去做呢"},{"start":8309.582,"end":8325.737,"text":"不過我想這個牽涉到跟日本的通路的合作那以我們最近在談的這些稻米的部分就是因為像我們的有機就可以走高單價的那我們的U子米像我們的一級的U子米的部分那其實可以進到它的賣場"},{"start":8326.758,"end":8345.564,"text":"那這些賣場過往在我們在行銷我們的鳳梨的時候這些通路都已經在了所以我們現在更積極的跟現在的通路通路能夠加上一項農產品去行銷是比較快的啦所以這個部分包括鳳梨包括米的部分我想我們會積極的進到不同的通路系統去"},{"start":8346.044,"end":8363.221,"text":"但是我們還是要重塑我們自己台灣米的品牌啊是不是你要進到這種零售市場要進到這種高單價市場對於台灣米的品牌你一定要重塑不能夠讓日本的"},{"start":8363.761,"end":8385.311,"text":"這些通路認為我們就是過去的業務米啊過去的要販售給監獄的用米啊你如果沒有改變這個形象的時候我們就沒有辦法進到日本的零售市場委員非常了解就是說有一些過往銷到日本他是用類似公糧的配米出去的"},{"start":8385.951,"end":8399.603,"text":"那現在我們會重新去塑造台灣米的品質就像我們用台灣鳳梨一樣去做市場的區隔啦那這樣的話我相信後續我們的台灣米的品牌能夠在日本市場就建立這個我想我們會繼續來努力好 謝謝喔 謝謝部長 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":8417.428,"end":8428.957,"text":"現在請楊瓊英委員做詢答謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請部長陳部長"},{"start":8437.966,"end":8460.064,"text":"今天張偉排了這個議程不管是藍綠白的委員大家都非常的關心而且都提案方向大家的凝聚力共同點也都是朝大概這個方向所以本期要請教那麼我們院版什麼時候會送到立法院來"},{"start":8460.945,"end":8484.537,"text":"因為你們從去年八月份的時候本席也在經濟委員會 一再跟你討論這個議題所以我們也希望在草野都能夠去惠及真正對社會有幫助而且保護我們這些的動物所以在這種情況之下請教從去年八月你們到底什麼社會送來"},{"start":8485.566,"end":8512.22,"text":"我剛才特別提到就是我們現在只差院會通過以後就可以送立法院那我回去我可以跟行政院做溝通明天是禮拜四啊 院會啊明天是不會有啦 不會有喔下禮拜四 我說下禮拜四進到院會院會完以後就可以送到立法院來所以我希望說在5月的上旬下個禮拜四可以送進去院會這個可以 我想跟行政院那邊溝通一下"},{"start":8513.2,"end":8535.742,"text":"排進去到下個禮拜的院會裡頭有這個信心下個禮拜是送到有齁你這個有一個微笑喔所以我們本期要請教那大家既然共識點都很雷同喔那請問從去年八月到現在你們終於說下個禮拜是要送到院會裡頭充分的溝通你改變了哪些"},{"start":8536.883,"end":8564.559,"text":"來 請做說明特別剛才跟委員講就是在111年上次修正是110年那110年修正完以後我們發現幾個很重要的事情事主的責任還有虐殺動物有沒有還有就是虐待動物的部分那個事件層出不窮但是我們的法本身並沒有很明確的管理還有一些棄養的動作棄養的那個事件的定義也不明確所以我們這一次經過了"},{"start":8565.76,"end":8581.045,"text":"一些溝通以外針對事主的責任經過動物保護強化的部分還有寵物的一些管理的部分另外就是動保檢查人員也要有一些執法的權利所以針對這幾項我們去做一些修法的一些安排"},{"start":8581.325,"end":8606.822,"text":"那這個你們主要的這四大方向呢跟我們藍綠白的委員提案大家都有一致的這個方向那所以本席繼續來跟你討論也就是說惡意傷害動物自死自傷的事件陳榮銘剛才說的是屢屢發生那引發社會高度的一個公憤但是我們現在動保法的規定裡頭對於虐待動物的認定標準過於嚴苛"},{"start":8609.944,"end":8634.274,"text":"常常出現了很明顯的虐待但是沒有辦法去定罪的這個情況它不但打擊了你們執法單位的士氣而且也嚴重的損害了動物保護的這個精神所以本席要請教部長本席所提出的動保法第25條及25條之一的修法方向那您是否支持 請說明"},{"start":8635.59,"end":8658.092,"text":"我們絕對支持非常感謝你的絕對支持那麼我們就繼續討論原本必須要複數動物死亡才能夠處罰的這個限制將這個複數必須要刪除因為本席在提案說明的時候也特別說傷害就是傷害 凌虐就是凌虐怎麼還要到複數以上呢請做說明"},{"start":8659.893,"end":8679.592,"text":"我委員報告喔 你不是這邊說而已 你這邊上面就說了對 本席非常重視所以我們這次就把那個複數把它槓掉了同意槓掉 好 我們有一個共識接下來本席要講將暴力或者是私有其他凌虐方式致動物死亡的這個行為明確納入重法的規範 您的看法"},{"start":8682.517,"end":8685.758,"text":"好 這一個同意 接下來我要再請教對於傷害至器官損傷或者是死亡情節重大的案件 罰則也要加重因為你原先是要將動物的器官要喪屍耶這個太嚴苛了 他已經損傷了"},{"start":8705.939,"end":8718.869,"text":"本來就應當要罰 贊成嗎 將喪屍改為損傷我們現在已經加重刑罰了對 一定要加重刑罰你也同意修正這樣子的一個條文好 這個非常的感謝終於聽到這個行政部門對本席的提案部長你這邊全力的來支持所以我們希望這個罰則加重了就是"},{"start":8732.745,"end":8757.454,"text":"整個社會的一個期待那真正的也要發揮一個嚇阻的這個功效本身認為作為文明的社會他不應當讓虐待動物者輕易脫罪應該要比照美國跟日本這些國家來提高虐待動物的刑責以及這個罰金才是真正的能夠遏阻這些的惡行"},{"start":8759.315,"end":8778.229,"text":"也能夠保障我們整個保護動物的這個精神讓這個飼主以及動物應有的權益都能夠受到保障那我們就期待我們希望盡速的在你下個禮拜四送進院會的行政院板趕快送到立法院我們完成的這個法案這個"},{"start":8779.87,"end":8783.772,"text":"接下來本席要跟你討論的我們犬貓的登記到目前為止是有222萬隻其中犬的部分是140萬隻貓的部分是82萬隻但是我們看到寵物相關的產業"},{"start":8796.457,"end":8804.083,"text":"它的銷售額它已經達到387.3億那可以顯示出我們的寵物市場的規模是龐大而且日日在增加隨著市場的發展那市主對於寵物食品的品質與安全的要求越來越嚴格本席也數次跟您討論過這個議題我們要吃的健康我們的寵物更應該它的食品的來源更應該要讓它健康那本席也看到"},{"start":8825.299,"end":8842.786,"text":"你們在4月24號針對於寵物食品中的重金屬 拱跟黴菌的毒素的容許標準做了調整來確保整個產品的安全性所以因此本席要來跟你討論的也就是說"},{"start":8844.502,"end":8872.128,"text":"你們在這樣的一個情況之下呢本項請教4月22號的公佈這是非常好的一個起點但是你們要怎麼樣去確保這些新標準在市場上有效的來落實而且他是必須要有一個有效的監管跟查核機制才能夠讓這些製造商呢他能夠有所遵循請教"},{"start":8874.212,"end":8892.552,"text":"跟委員報告您這邊所提到的那個犬隻的隻數貓特別快這是在去年年底的現在兩個加起來已經是251萬隻了很好而且會陸續增加會增加那第二個部分就是我們針對我們提出來的這些那個寵物食品的那個對"},{"start":8893.453,"end":8911.575,"text":"那個有害物質跟我們會加強抽測過去我們大概是四五百件我們會再加強這個抽測的比例然後同時每一次的抽測完了以後我們就會公佈我們用公佈的方式讓廠商有警惕啦"},{"start":8912.657,"end":8935.198,"text":"所以這個部分我想我們可能會更加強然後針對寵物業者現在寵物業者大概有三千多家的寵物業者寵物食品業者的部分有大概八萬多件的寵物食品我們也會同步的加強這些抽測包括進口的也是一樣加強抽測同時你也要加強宣導讓這個公布呢讓大家都知道我們要一起"},{"start":8935.738,"end":8961.432,"text":"向上 善的循環向上 深厚 加油接下來最後一個議題本集請教我國漁船涉入宰殺保護類動物的國際指控案件層出不窮顯示了現行的監管跟教育以及處罰機制仍舊有很大的缺口所以本集希望要有積極的作為那不然恐怕將使我國在漁業國際間背負了沉重的負面評價那據媒體報導"},{"start":8964.033,"end":8988.211,"text":"有船主在6月2024年的6月駕駛了這個漁船作業期間那指示的外籍漁工呢在西北太平洋非法捕捉並宰殺我國列為二級保育類的海豚將以血肉吸引殺魚哇 這個嚴重的違反到我們的野保法不僅破壞了我們的海洋生態更重創我國國際的一個形態所以本期要請教"},{"start":8992.674,"end":9016.997,"text":"像這樣的事件我們政府怎麼樣的作為怎麼樣讓我們在國際間不會有這些惡性的一個負評我第一個問題報告像這個遠洋漁業的部分一定要透過國際的合作那以今天這個案例是加拿大跟我們合作的加拿大本身的巡航的那個飛機有拍攝到儀式的所以第一時間通知我們以後"},{"start":9017.597,"end":9044.863,"text":"等這漁船進港的時候我們馬上做漁獲的清查調查跟檢查才順利的把這些可能疑似這些有這種宰殺野生動物的這些這些犯罪的事實跟證據能夠保全起來所以這個部分我想後續他已經違反了相關的IUU的部分那現在目前特別是IUU是全世界一直在認真對待的事情那我們台灣有所謂的那個"},{"start":9046.004,"end":9060.859,"text":"國際人權的一個相關的條例漁業人權的法案我們會持續的去加強還有包括相關的監管在各地的港口我們也會有監管員會上船去做查核這個部分我想我們會努力來做部長當然這個"},{"start":9064.402,"end":9082.92,"text":"國際國家通知我們當然我們配合IU也非常的重視我們要的是說我們要再怎麼樣在國際的這個富品不能再有所以因此我們也不能只坐著人家通知我們而我們必須要好好的從觀念教育讓我們的"},{"start":9083.801,"end":9104.634,"text":"漁船知道大家一起來維護國家的一個顏面這才是重點你要多多的從教育從觀念然後去加強這樣子才能夠這個進動一起來才能夠不會再有這樣子的一個負評好謝謝委員的提醒去研議方案好嗎謝謝好謝謝我們現在請張錫凱委員做詢答"},{"start":9115.27,"end":9115.75,"text":"好來請保證慢慢喝"},{"start":9147.269,"end":9173.02,"text":"我們現在繼續跟同基層同聲明的農民討論三天我今天要跟你討論的是漁電共生的大漏洞我在三個地方問你這個漁電共生的事情漁電共生這段時間出了很多問題包括下面被埋的那個什麼爐渣啦廢土啦然後慢慢要去做一些改善可是我發現更多的陳情有一個大的問題就是那個覆蓋力的問題"},{"start":9174.437,"end":9188.045,"text":"我三位都有問你嘛,你做了這個回答嘛,你看一下那個字幕,你說漁電共生的基本上光電的覆蓋率是40%嘛,然後包括漁種你都有講嘛,我現在很明確的,這個40%應該是漁溫的40%對不對?它是設施容許裡面土地的40%"},{"start":9197.12,"end":9220.477,"text":"這個容許他申請容許面積的這個分母到底是餘溫的40還是這個所有土地的40不是他土地他容許是針對土地面積他這塊土地面積的容許那那塊土地面積他可能只有一小部分做餘溫喔那不一定所以我們的容許是用土地的面積的40%現在通通的問題就是很多地方餘溫上面蓋了滿滿的這個光電板嘛"},{"start":9226.081,"end":9253.663,"text":"對不對啊現在就是現在市民說這樣魚子吃不完嘛對不對那你3月26號你給我的答詢是來來保證來來來你看你二十八個月你的答詢是這樣子你說要有陽光照射嘛對不對是所以你說有40%的覆蓋那你60%可以陽光可以進來嘛對不對是可是現在問題出在什麼地方現在全國很多地方出現了一個很大的問題是餘溫百分之百都被蓋滿了"},{"start":9254.912,"end":9263.894,"text":"那就沒有達到你剛講的這個你前面會跟我說的40的40的覆蓋60可以射進來對不對那你如果百分之百把餘溫全部都蓋住了"},{"start":9264.887,"end":9282.885,"text":"哇 那就是零啦 對不對我給你們報告我們的餘電工程有兩類一類是室內養殖型的它的覆蓋率跟我剛才講的40%是戶外的部分所以這兩個是不大一樣的我們先來談戶外我們今天就鎖定戶外戶外就是應該戶外其實剛才你說的就是"},{"start":9286.989,"end":9315.879,"text":"宜溫不是百分之百蓋住嘛對不對至少是百分之四十嘛對不對這樣百分之六十有陽光可以設置的嘛其實你根據的這是有科學根據嘛你根據的就是水勢守的這個2018年的這個漁電共生的模擬試驗嘛對不對所以你是有根據的嘛可是現在問題來了來我給你看這個圖來你看這個來那個你看左邊這就是宜溫啦對不對對不對大到八八八"},{"start":9316.874,"end":9327.738,"text":"這是幾%?這是40%嗎?部長我甚至調那個空照圖給你看右邊這個就是宜溫電瓶全部都是光電板所以跟部長還有你水事所當初做的這個實驗是不一樣的喔對不對?我再給你看下一張這是一個暗場來下一張這個暗場也一樣"},{"start":9345.473,"end":9373.481,"text":"這兩個案場都是在疑問上面蓋了百分之百那這個違反了違反你的理解也違反了水事所當初做的這個結論這個就是我自己的鄉親啊他們一直在陳情啊其實保定你也很盡心盡力啦我聽各位問你的時候有一家不是被球場的異議對不對後來我們去努力讓他可以和解嘛現在在和解中這個就是我剛剛講的其中一個案場"},{"start":9375.828,"end":9396.931,"text":"他被光電裂折就是這樣搞搞到根本就沒辦法沒辦法再種魚電有沒有生出來不曉得可是魚死了嘛魚電共生結果魚還不曉得有沒有這個魚就死掉了這個就是現在鄉村裡面很多地方碰到的這個悲劇好那你有努力了你這個案子有要他們去和解了可是這個問題沒有解開"},{"start":9397.532,"end":9415.98,"text":"不過我想第一個我必須誠實跟委員說明用這樣的圖我沒辦法判斷因為在有一些土地它是地層下陷於不利耕作區它也許也有從事養殖的行為但是那時候的容許跟你地面的或是室內的是不一樣的規範"},{"start":9416.92,"end":9440.31,"text":"那以農業部的立場我們一定是要先確保養殖能夠成功也是事實然後光電才是加值的部分那如果有不法的部分我想都應該去查處啦對柏定我告訴你看的就是左邊這個是實景圖嘛這個是空照圖嘛我進一步再把這個地幕啊調出來給你看來下一張看下一張你看"},{"start":9445.154,"end":9464.662,"text":"這是整個暗場這是台灣第一個漁電共生的第一個模範區示範區也是第一個暗場就有兩個場來陳情碰到一個大的問題右下角這個就是上次我一直問你的你把前面都蓋住了魚都死掉就沒辦法養殖啊所以漁民就抗議啊"},{"start":9466.121,"end":9484.908,"text":"結果開發商供電商怎麼說我就求賞你一億那我們有努力了嘛現在已經和解了可是和解還是在現在進行式喔左上角那個更可憐我現在跟你講左上角你看上面畫的供電板這就百分之百都覆蓋了啦你從地幕我剛剛講空照圖這個從地幕都很清楚左上角發生了什麼事情移民工"},{"start":9487.472,"end":9515.4,"text":"你台元立能國營事業啊你還開口啊我就同意你來做光電啊結果轉了好幾手弄到後來台泥變成台泥台泥光電去了他左上角蓋出什麼也是百分之百結果那個農夫一直抗爭到後來就腦中風了兒子把工作丟下回去照顧爸爸到現在還在抗爭這兩個都是很大悲劇一個被酋長以疫"},{"start":9516.636,"end":9535.855,"text":"一個家裡面生活陷入困頓不只沒辦法繼續在養魚爸爸腦中風現在躺在家裡兒子現在在抗爭喔就來存錢那原因就是初桃我剛剛跟你討論的因為你們在法令的這個解釋上面讓光電業者去餘溫上面蓋了百分之百的"},{"start":9536.82,"end":9554.257,"text":"光電板那這個要不要處理不過我還是跟委員說明您這樣我沒辦法判斷因為光電的覆蓋率會因為你是農變的農地變更是一件事情然後你做室內的或是做戶外的那我在這邊有個數據可以跟委員報告就是我們也要求了"},{"start":9555.477,"end":9577.187,"text":"各縣市有做光電廠去做盤查去做清查有沒有不合法的地方有沒有不養魚的現在已經清查了122場那其中完全合格的大概是將近37場到40場之間所以表示還有很大部分是不符合相關的規範正在改善中所以"},{"start":9578.107,"end":9604.626,"text":"我也必須認同就是說的確有一些不合法的這項的光電板但是我們會要求地方政府去做一個有效的查核甚至於我們也希望說如果他沒有真正從事農業的漁業經營的話他就應該斷電啦就是讓他的電不再輸送啊如果讓他電繼續輸送他不斷的在改善那你就沒完沒了啊就是我想我們農業部的立場是這樣子"},{"start":9605.026,"end":9631.016,"text":"我對你很棒 你也承認說有部分是有問題嘛那你要去把它清查清楚至少這兩個地方要去清查清楚對 這個我想我們後續如果有資訊我們可以了解如果你去看了 確定是老蔣我已經給你很明確了空照圖也給你 地幕圖也給你 實景都給你的好 那你要更明確請最近就趕快去看這兩個地方好不好是那如果是確定你確認是我剛剛講的百分之百上面移運都蓋了這個百分之百的光電板那這個就不行囉"},{"start":9632.276,"end":9642.859,"text":"如果它是地面型的,它絕對不行啊對啦,宿外又是地面型的嘛,就是魚死地面嘛來,再看另外一個,剛才這兩個是假機,這張是台南的,來,看那裡一樣,地面也大跟密密麻麻,全部都是光電板,也是百分之百你是農業專家,你覺得這個光電發電之後,會不會比較容易起火"},{"start":9657.188,"end":9673.538,"text":"這個有餘電共生嗎?還是變生了,餘死掉了?這個你的專業判斷,這要怎樣?這叫餘電共生嗎?我如果全部看這張圖的話,我覺得下面是沒有什麼養啊對啊,它怎麼可以發電?可以通過你們這個許可還繼續再發電?"},{"start":9674.411,"end":9696.132,"text":"不是 我要跟委員報告我們農業部是針對他的經營計畫書裡面我們做容許那後續都是地方政府在處理的那我們當然會有一些指引跟規範去要求所以像類似有這樣的一個案場的時候我們都會要求地方政府要去嚴查啊這個才能夠確保 對這用常識 別說你專業 常識看就知道地面都浮屏啊"},{"start":9701.325,"end":9728.735,"text":"都是浮屏啊這個裡面如果有魚的話 魚就會把那個浮屏吃掉嘛根本密密麻麻都是浮屏 表示你會比較沒魚啊嘛啊第一個這個含氧量一定很高嘛 對不對 是這個根本沒辦法養魚啊 所以它不叫魚電攻生它叫電生的魚死掉了 是不是那這個 好 部長所以我們今天有結論喔我至少講的這個地步我會給你至少這三個地方你要去看過 好不好好 那我做明確的 明確的這個三個具體的要求來 我們看起來應該有共識啦 第一類 來 保定來"},{"start":9729.977,"end":9755.262,"text":"你要明確去界定餘電共生的這個覆蓋率像光電一直跟你講那個40%是全部的土地不是餘溫其實我們今天講的很清楚的餘溫覆蓋不能超過40要有60讓陽光可以射進來要不然餘就死掉了不叫餘電共生覆蓋率以餘溫為依據的話不能夠超過40%要明定下來不是以整體的暗場做計算這跌跌對不對反正這跌跌做得到嗎"},{"start":9756.708,"end":9773.315,"text":"我們本來就這樣規定剛剛講的那個看的那個都是違規嘛不只要去看要去處理然後這個法令一定是要這個規定一定要去確定好第二個你統計一下不只到現場去喔統計一下現在有多少移民本身覆蓋率超過40%的一個月夠不夠"},{"start":9775.697,"end":9803.336,"text":"一個月給委員報告 就是你持續去查嘛 我就那三個地方都給你我先跟委員報告就是我們要做這件事情我們一定發文給地方政府地方政府去查明以後回報那這個部分我們會盡量在一個月能夠給委員一個答覆但是有時候會牽扯到地方政府的查核的時間所以我現在不敢保證說一定一個月他們一定給我因為有時候地方政府不給的時候我們也沒辦法"},{"start":9804.016,"end":9827.811,"text":"今天就會發函就對了啦 儘快我想今天 我們這個禮拜好不好這個禮拜我們發函給地方政府就要去查明嘛這事情很重要的因為漁電共生是你的重要政策嘛現在一定又加速在推動 現在核電5月17號又停了一定又推得更急更急你已經發現有一些是違反你的規定了違反規定已經出現那麼多悲劇了我剛才說過 那真的是"},{"start":9829.518,"end":9857.396,"text":"一個農夫好好的本來過日子結果聽信你國營事業、台研綠能弄到後來腦中風兒子還辭掉工作要回來照顧爸爸現在繼續抗爭趕快看、趕快幫他們解決問題好不好第三個第三個就是我要講要怎麼去幫忙了對於現行你去查過後你有發現是超過40%的這個不合規定了嘛其實養不活就不是一定共生了嘛可是你在一方面提一個改善的計畫的時候你要原理"},{"start":9858.121,"end":9881.66,"text":"這些漁民現在是受害者 對不對不知道各位嗎 不見得喔不見得是受害者喔 各式各樣 可是像我剛才說的那兩個都是嘛 不一定 因為我現在沒辦法判斷喔因為漁電共生 一定是光電業者 要不然就租地 然後由漁民負責養有的是什麼 純粹是由光電業者養 所以它樣態非常複雜所以我現在沒辦法判斷說一定是漁民受害"},{"start":9882.844,"end":9901.745,"text":"部長我們把樣態集中一下我今天給你質詢的東西都是清清楚楚的第一個第一個就是在餘溫上面你本來說40%它蓋了百分之百到時候我都給你嘛你去看嘛對不對第二個我今天質詢的是非常明確的當初餘溫不能夠超過百分之40是有科學根據的是你水是走的"},{"start":9903.099,"end":9922.238,"text":"這個在法規上已經很明確了而且你都漏食了嘛對不對包括如果養那絲種魚你這邊都是有的嘛所以你要漏食這個嘛好OK你說有很多樣式嘛那如果是我剛剛講的把它凝聚是確實是違法的好那OK那我們就明確你去看過之後一個要清查嘛對不對然後確定去看是有違法的你是不是要考慮一下怎麼去幫國賠或者"},{"start":9924.22,"end":9931.929,"text":"這個我沒辦法同意因為我現在完全不知道因為餘定工生他的彼此之間光定業者跟漁民之間的關係非常複雜"},{"start":9933.379,"end":9961.017,"text":"那有不同的樣態不見得是漁民是受害者這個有時候也是光電是受害者我們所瞭解的當然你要去關心嘛一電共生這幾天的農業部重要政策國家重要政策這個到他們之間的合約的關係這個合約的關係就回到合約去處理不能動不動就國賠所以我們是有共識的去查然後確定如果是農民我們查了以後再看看說那個樣態怎麼樣再走下一步啦所以農民如果是受害我們就要幫他啦"},{"start":9964.479,"end":9979.926,"text":"農民如果是受害我們會來協助他看他怎麼去做後續的處理如果是受害者很明確的受害者我們會來協助來看怎麼樣去跟觀天業者去做相關的處理我用簡短大概時間超過我用30秒跟你講對於那個40%那個事情我去查了資料"},{"start":9986.289,"end":10008.564,"text":"你108年的3月6號本來講是宜溫的40%後來你再過了一個月啊過了一個月4月16號過了16號你有做一個放寬你就要修回來好不好就確定是宜溫40%好不好好啦那個主席已經在講了OK那我們就最終我們要照顧好移民然後把一個月內把它清出來好謝謝保定謝謝休息五分鐘"},{"start":10018.554,"end":10020.677,"text":"好 等一下"},{"start":10055.326,"end":10055.347,"text":"嗯"},{"start":10322.721,"end":10332.53,"text":"好 繼續質詢我們現在請賴慧蓉委員做詢問好 謝主席 請陳部長陳部長"},{"start":10340.706,"end":10348.074,"text":"館長你好這一次的部分特別面對關稅的問題那當然農業部也匡列了180億那我們也希望藉這個機會也調整我們的體質一方面幫助這些受影響的農業一方面也趁機調整體質讓我們更具有競爭力"},{"start":10357.304,"end":10381.033,"text":"我裡面特別想要帶到的是當然冷鏈這塊持續來推那另外我有看到的包括一些認證驗證的部分我也希望持續來加強那我也特別要提一下那個遠洋漁業的部分遠洋漁業的部分當時我們有一些的也是希望能夠有一些專案收購計畫這個部分經費上會不會受到影響"},{"start":10382.179,"end":10401.813,"text":"沒有 我們這次的經費的確我們在我們有被刪了20.14億對 有刪有動有刪有動的部分那我們會盡可能的去我所知道在刪的部分的統刪的部分其實已經一部分就影響到我們收購的這些但是我們想我們盡量去調整其他的"},{"start":10402.313,"end":10403.034,"text":"我們會盡量來調度其他的經費來支持"},{"start":10417.21,"end":10440.265,"text":"另外一個就是其實現在我們這個漁業的MSC的部分這一塊未來也對於拓展我們的歐美的市場也有相當大的幫助我也希望農業部持續來支持好不好這個部分我想跟委員報告特別是在鬼頭刀的部分從FIP到MSC的部分我們已經納入我們整體產業支持方案裡面非常重要的就是協助透過這種標章的認證來做市場的區隔讓我們更順利的能夠將漁產品外交到美國去"},{"start":10445.649,"end":10471.866,"text":"我希望未來朝這個方向就是說歐美這個市場一定要努力的打進去對 我們不會放棄對 這個持續長遠的方向也趁這次機會不斷的調整我們的體質然後可以給這些漁民給這些業者們更多的支持讓他們來具有更強的競爭力那這一次的關稅部分我想都已經做了相關準備那當然現在是180億嘛如果未來有更擴大的影響的話農業部會不會持續往上再增加更多的金錢"},{"start":10472.406,"end":10498.353,"text":"我想是因為現在的關稅的還有它的不確定性嘛還在談判當中對那未來如果關稅確定了以後我們會試關稅的那個最後的那個額度齁如果說經費有不夠的地方我想所以也請所有的農民漁民放心啦齁政府這件事情上會全力的挺住我們的農漁民啦齁就是當然現在是180億但是將來談判結果不論結果出來狀況如果影響有更重大的影響的話政府還會繼續加碼來支持我特別強調齁"},{"start":10500.313,"end":10522.022,"text":"院長也特別指示了就是說所有的政策一定是農業民優先所以這一點也請我們的農業民朋友來放心如果經費不夠的話我想我們一定會跟行政院爭取更多的經費來支持我們的農業我想一定也都會支持從院長到部長甚至到總統我相信都會支持農業民的這些經費絕不能讓農業民在這件事情上面受到影響"},{"start":10523.283,"end":10534.629,"text":"那另外當然歐美這塊市場還是要請部長磁力打進去我們不會放棄美國這塊市場吧是 我們絕對不會放棄而且我們有一部分我們反而趁這個機會還可以去擴大我們的市場的規模對"},{"start":10538.251,"end":10560.567,"text":"所以以關稅來講不同國家有不同的關稅因為美國是面對全世界所以當其他世界有可能更嚴格的時候有可能也是我們的機會產生的時候所以我們應該努力的打進美國的市場再來我想請教一下跟今天也有開始相關的我們現在的動保跟檢疫防疫其實都很需要很多的一些獸醫的人才但是因為很多人是被挖到了"},{"start":10561.187,"end":10586.874,"text":"民間去那當時的時候其實這幾年我們不管是寵物狗寵物貓甚至寵物的相關越來越多人數都持續增加那但是我們的獸醫師反到這個在政府機關內的反甩不開業獎金總統當時也做過承諾這個農業部有開始在做了嗎我想非常謝謝委員的關心而且也是委員一直關切的這個獸醫師的人力那現在獸醫師人力不足最主要是"},{"start":10588.197,"end":10607.594,"text":"公務單位本身的薪水比起外面的還低嘛所以那時候包括委員也在爭取那總統也同意了而且我們也擬定的跟人總也討論過了我們現在已經把獸醫師的不開業獎金已經送到行政院我們希望說能夠盡快的最快什麼時候可以開始來實施"},{"start":10609.291,"end":10631.043,"text":"我個人期待是五月底到六月初啦所以說五月底六月初院裡面支持了以後還是要循這個程序現在已經進到所以人種 農業部支持人種也支持我們跟人種都已經談好相關的這些不開業獎金的金額的部分所以等院宣布支持就可以了院長在之前也宣布他會支持這個方案總統也宣布他要支持這個方案嘛"},{"start":10631.403,"end":10653.54,"text":"所以我希望加快因為看來總統院長都支持希望加快那如果最快五月份有可能就可以來納入這個不開業的獎金我們是朝這個目標來我希望能夠盡快的這個等於更多優秀的人力能夠留在公部門裡面他不出去開業他留在裡面這樣更多人才他們在未來制定政策未來整個制定相關的法規有更強的"},{"start":10655.622,"end":10671.102,"text":"好 謝謝 五月份期待能夠儘速完成那再來是現在的寵物越來越多但是寵物的殯葬大家也越來越關切很多人甚至於要這個要離開的時候但是現在我們的合法業者非常的少甚至於很多的收費亂象部長 這個怎麼來處理"},{"start":10673.524,"end":10697.822,"text":"這個部分我覺得過去會有亂象最主要是彼此之間沒有一個合約的關係都是漫天喊價的關係所以我想我們農業部也針對這個議題部長那有定型化契約了嗎我們現在我們預計大概6月底就會公布這個定型化契約範本6月份會公布定型化契約的範本有這個範本以後我想所有的大家都要照這個範本來做的話就會減少相關的糾紛"},{"start":10701.224,"end":10730.315,"text":"好 那另外各個地方政府的部分它的殯葬的自治法規這一塊會去推動嗎現在大概有六個地方政府有在努力啦會鼓勵大家來盡量來訂定這樣的一個自治規範嗎我們現在目前就是相關的殯葬那個寵物生命紀念設施本身我們希望把這些相關的審查的權利都下放到地方政府那地方政府這樣審查都能夠加快它的速度這個部分我想我們也朝這個方向積極的在做"},{"start":10731.075,"end":10757.092,"text":"積極跟地方政府溝通好不好因為毛小孩寵物這個局越來越多了它其實對於人類其實有更多的這個很多人都其實跟毛小孩之間的感情也都很深厚甚至於它很多的陪伴的效果我希望這一塊時代的趨勢上是如此應該政府要更加重視那希望協助更多的地方政府來更有一些清楚的規範讓整個更具有相關的權益更加的清楚會 我想"},{"start":10758.172,"end":10768.785,"text":"動物的福利的重視是一個社會文明的指標啦對然後對於這種所謂的毛小孩或寵物的最後的一段路的話我們更應該給予尊重啦是這是我想農業部的態度所以我們講後續我們會更積極的針對後面的這些"},{"start":10773.07,"end":10788.044,"text":"生命紀念的設施的部分甚至於很多的一些公開資訊政府也應該更加的協助好不好當這些確認清楚的時候對於大家就有更多遵循的一些依據好不好這個請那另外我想請教一下寵物食品管理法的部分現在進入到哪邊了"},{"start":10788.624,"end":10817.993,"text":"寵物食品管理法現在在我們部裡面在法規會審查那我是要求五月底要完成相關的內部的審查送行政院所以五月底要送行政院然後我目標是在下個會期就可以提出來因為寵物食品的管理法希望下個會期完成三讀的程序對那個寵物食品的專法的部分它從原料的進來到生產製造銷售到標示跟它的產品安全都有一完整的一個規範我們希望說盡快的能夠上路"},{"start":10818.573,"end":10839.649,"text":"這個也越來越重要啦因為現在的寵物家裡越來越多人飼養寵物的時候那你的食品的部分他到底從吃的東西從哪裡來他的管制各方面的甚至於他可能衍生後續的很多的一些問題我認為應該有更清楚的一個規範那剛剛部長提到了嘛五月份會送出布裡面這邊嘛那下個會期送進立法院我們希望下個會期來完成這個三讀的程序啦讓"},{"start":10844.252,"end":10866.565,"text":"寵物的食品 也要請委員來支持啦這個一定支持啦我覺得這個是實際上面的現況就是大家更多寵物甚至於很多的食品到底哪裡來的它的一些相關的規範安全的一些部分都並沒有那麼明確我認為這個也都會是很多市主上遇到的問題啦我們希望更清楚的規範之後讓這個市場更加的明確同時也讓所有的寵物能夠有更安全的一些食品好不好"},{"start":10867.465,"end":10884.36,"text":"再來我最後請教一下現在很多的寵物的用品在家裡面有很多的寵物也都會拿那甚至有多更小的小朋友們可能都會影響到這個會不會能夠去建立一個標準的規範我也非常重視寵物的這些玩具之類的東西"},{"start":10885.06,"end":10911.547,"text":"那相對的他可能還有一些有毒的物質如果沒有管制好的話所以後續我們會比照類似我們的那個安全的用玩具的安全玩具的這個標準跟標章什麼時候可以來訂定這個應該一併也是在6月這個應該並不困難吧因為已經有很多的安全的標章有了對我們要參照那個安全玩具的標章我希望建立一個安全的標章好不好然後訂定清楚讓消費者選擇或者讓所有人有一個很清楚的依序我想我們會盡快來處理6月份嗎"},{"start":10913.507,"end":10940.188,"text":"五月份六月份我們六月份好不好六月份來好不好六月份把它訂定出來好不好因為出來之後一般這除了是對寵物的影響之外家裡如果有小小孩有時候有可能會受到一些影響對我知道對他有可能受到影響所以我希望這個東西照我們的一些相關的標章把它訂定出來之後那讓所有選購有一個清楚的依據哪些是政府做會認可安全的一個標準寵物的用具寵物的玩具好不好好謝謝部長好謝謝委員的提醒謝謝"},{"start":10940.868,"end":10962.759,"text":"好謝謝我們現在請邱志偉委員做詢答謝謝主席有請農業部陳部長陳部長動思物防疫檢疫署許署長許署長"},{"start":10968.402,"end":10990.808,"text":"這個部長,我們在桃園機場,它有這個動植液,就是回國的這個國人啊,他的所提的行李要再經過安檢一次,對不對?那主要目的是什麼?最主要是偵測,夾帶有這種動植物本身不可攜帶的這些物品,特別是要檢疫的。委外嗎?"},{"start":10992.202,"end":11020.422,"text":"委外嗎一部分委外委外的人力啦全部委外嘛我看不到你們的人啦我看不到你們的人全部都是委外的你一年經費會變多少錢有將近五億五億就執行這個安檢五億那執行這是在所有的在境外安檢的部分安檢的部分大概差不多一億一億好小港議長有沒有"},{"start":11022.836,"end":11052.163,"text":"小港機場沒有為什麼小港機場沒有空間的問題應該全國一致嘛你只要是港口只要是海關只要是機場應該是一致的嘛都從國外都從國外回來啊為什麼只有桃園機場我跟委員報告齁就是小港機場因為它的停機坪下來以後的那個空間的空間的動線的問題你不能因為空間但是它在海關那邊但是它在海關那邊有檢查全部檢查那你桃園機場你就把它撤掉用海關來檢查就好啦不是"},{"start":11052.603,"end":11079.478,"text":"那桃園市長因為人流比較多部長你不能一國多智我們給你一億就要做好這個邊境管制避免從國外攜帶這個農食產品對不對包括這個豬瘟的問題等等有綠色有紅色對不對我們多一個程序為了一個把關那你只有桃園市長有好我支持你但你要落實怎麼樣落實要專業人來看"},{"start":11081.397,"end":11109.261,"text":"是不是專業 有沒有收穫訓練他們說有收穫訓練啊有沒有證照他們看得出來這個是違禁品嗎那我請教你好 一年查獲多少 多少件數來 一年查獲多少一年查獲在全國來講應該原則上差不多全國只有一處而已啊對不對 只有朝陽機場有啊 崧山機場有沒有 崧山機場雙向沒有也沒有嘛那你不能一國多治啊 你要做就做徹底啊"},{"start":11110.595,"end":11128.189,"text":"我們給你預算你就好好去執行不要有任何破口不要有任何漏洞嘛跟委員說你原則上我們是因地制宜啦因為在台灣機場它整個台灣機場比較危險啊沒有它整個進來的整個人流其實它超乎我們在我們所有的不能因為人流多你就"},{"start":11129.7,"end":11149.601,"text":"你就管制人流少小港機場這個人流有不少耶那航班也不少啊在其他的機場比如說像在松崎還有在小港機場有的上海關幫忙那我們人員 政治人員也在現場那你海關可以幫忙的話我就跟你講你在移椅我們就把它砍掉了是不是給你移椅是要做好邊境管制嘛"},{"start":11150.402,"end":11171.468,"text":"對不對 你就要全面去落實所以我看了很多 台中也有國際競技場 對不對好 我們就小港 松山跟桃園我就覺得為什麼你這個桃園有 松山跟小港沒有另外啊 你們確實執行有沒有這個專業技術你執行查核多少數量 裁罰金額多少"},{"start":11173.17,"end":11192.449,"text":"這個資料是要請會後提供不要留意形勢或者不要有這個因地制宜防疫沒有因地制宜的啦高雄防疫比較強是不是高雄防疫比較弱我跟委員報告你所提的我會後會請環境局來檢討我已經提供好幾次了你去現場看看他們是怎麼在檢查的有沒有專業"},{"start":11200.104,"end":11222.015,"text":"這個我曾經到機場去視察過那這些檢查在那邊我沒有去視察我經過十幾次我當然充分配合也觀察這個他們檢查動線檢查流程沒有看到一個防檢局的人一位都沒有你可以完全委外嗎那麼公權力怎麼執行呢"},{"start":11224.645,"end":11230.73,"text":"證明好好確實檢討所以我們會來檢討不要講一講用什麼 欸明天就忘了不會這個齁 這個局長 那個誰局長 這個你要用心點 你要去看一下然後你要檢討一下為什麼小港不需要為什麼松山不需要 交給海關就可以了這個不是理由齁 你沒有辦法說服我另外這個"},{"start":11254.468,"end":11275.43,"text":"部長你去過日本跟韓國嗎應該常常去日本韓國不管是都會區或者一般的鄉村區流浪口是不是很少很少為什麼韓國跟日本流浪口那麼少你們有這個原因在哪裡這要不要說明一下您知不知道我先問你您知不知道"},{"start":11277.486,"end":11296.701,"text":"他甚至可以工作別人可以做到那麼好你應該去學習啊出國你就是了解別的其他國家哪一點做得好我們可以去學習你們可以跟相關的他們的單位主管單位去請教去學習或者去交流他們怎麼把流浪狗 流浪犬做好管理"},{"start":11297.521,"end":11322.482,"text":"我所了解就是說其實飼主責任是一個非常重要的關鍵那在日本因為牠有冬天所以牠的流浪狗本身冬天牠就不出來了沒有 台灣還有零撲殺這個政策那現在零撲殺的一些抓捕都是用收容所的量牠們對動物是 犬貓是非常友善的國度而如果有效的做好管理"},{"start":11323.673,"end":11338.113,"text":"給犬貓一個友善的環境那又沒有流浪犬貓造成的問題人家做得很好啊那我問你主管機關人家哪裡做得好你答不出來代表你沒有做功課來 市長"},{"start":11341.55,"end":11366.028,"text":"那個報告委員那個日韓主要的部分是兩個部分第一個是在施主責任的要求那這部分的要求是有相對徹底的那第二個部分那他們針對不同的一個地區的一個處理有採取不同的措施那他們今天我們可以學習嗎我們這要修法能不能入法呢目前我們一直朝這個方向在做那個法制上的建構人家做得到我們沒有做不到的道理啦"},{"start":11367.338,"end":11393.108,"text":"做不到就是我們主管機關這個沒有做好法治面不足 執行面不夠我就不相信人家做得到韓國韓國能做得到我們做不到我們一天到晚還在為流浪犬冒問題因為我一個選民因為流浪犬衝出來他下班途中"},{"start":11394.181,"end":11400.552,"text":"一個五十幾歲的一個媽媽這樣衝出來反映墓跡水淚殘人家就知道了這種絕對不是個案"},{"start":11410.881,"end":11429.652,"text":"流動權好好管理我在問你的報告裡面你103到11110年你編的多少錢補助各縣市來新建這個東部收容處所報告委員如果這10年的話平均大概應該是每年大概2億總共編的多少錢目前應該是編到18億"},{"start":11432.455,"end":11458.85,"text":"你就照你的報告來看 你的報告寫給我 照你的報告來問你嘛你編了二十億 補助二十一個縣市嘛 對不對那我目前啊 全國公立收容所總進可收容幾隻犬貓加起來總共有幾隻應該一萬一千隻一萬一千隻 這算是正確的你未來從一一四到一一九 還有沒有相關計畫"},{"start":11461.767,"end":11476.334,"text":"應該有持續嗎?報告委員,我們目前有提一支忠誠的計畫,那目前院還沒核定忠誠的計畫叫什麼名字?那個友善動物保護計畫的第二期錯!114-119是擴展動物收容量及場域優化計畫哪有第二期?哪有第二期?你會報告,你就沒心錯,你主管的機關在做什麼?"},{"start":11489.317,"end":11514.642,"text":"你來這裡不是說坐在那裡沒什麼事我們有準備我早上六點有來出門有時候就在那裡幫你擠筍子看你有準備沒有看你有好好的做行為沒有我站在你那裡不幫你問你怎麼打不出來我怎麼樣對你們有信心嘛是不是剩下的我其他用順便來問時間到了"},{"start":11517.3,"end":11539.756,"text":"農業部要加油啦 謝謝委員 我想我們會檢討我剛剛問的問題 我會繼續再追我希望你們讓國人能夠安心讓全貓有一個好的環境一個友善的環境把這些問題全部根除 根本解決日韓做得到 我們沒有理由做不到加油吧"},{"start":11540.879,"end":11559.491,"text":"好 謝謝現在做一下宣告我們中午不休息延長開會時間現在請張家俊委員做巡檔謝謝主席那我想請部長陳部長"},{"start":11562.93,"end":11578.318,"text":"部長剛才這個邱志偉委員在問有關於這個在入境的時候這個審查本席也接到很多的澄清就是說只要是從不是日本或者是歐美國家回來的都需要領一個"},{"start":11579.779,"end":11599.818,"text":"就是沒有一個卡然後必須在機場接受檢驗但是有很多鄉親意思說我也沒有手提行李啊但是他就必須大排長龍而且那個隊伍甚至高達一個小時是不是部長這邊能夠安排說檢查你有手提行李的你才檢查你沒有手提行李的你讓他在那裡排隊這樣合理嗎"},{"start":11602.332,"end":11629.981,"text":"我想第一個部分就是我們因為人流的關係我們是針對高風險區的時候才會進到手提行李的部分那你剛才說的在高風險區進來的話他沒有手提行李是不是要分流一下可以把它分流對對把它分流他沒有行李他也等了一個多小時然後他問現場說我沒有行李我可以先走嗎他說不行你要在這裡排隊那就不合理嘛好不好這個現在應該是不用吧沒有現在要這個禮拜天這個禮拜天我才有鄉親打電話來"},{"start":11632.182,"end":11635.907,"text":"現在打電話來抗議蔡昌清打電話來抗議而且這個都是一些企業家怎麼大家一群企業家去開會全部被塞在那個隊伍裡面好不好部長這一點如果說沒有帶行李的話我想我們用分流的方式來處理是這一點麻煩部長"},{"start":11650.205,"end":11669.815,"text":"那另外部長最近有很多返鄉從農的這些親農朋友就提出了一些困難點那我也想在這裡跟部長反映希望部長能夠正面回應協助解決那現行規定中農民如果要申請外籍移工通常需要具備這個農保資格"},{"start":11671.616,"end":11686.952,"text":"那我手上就有一個非常值得作為檢討範例的案例喔那我先問一下部長說部長您歡迎說過去可能是等於是勞保然後他可能非志願離職之後回到從事農業這樣子的勞動力嗎"},{"start":11690.896,"end":11707.236,"text":"我想這個是也是我們從事農業的來源之一啦就是過往他還年輕但是過往曾經從事其他的工作用勞保的方式那後來返鄉勿農以後我覺得這塊人也是需要照顧的所以部長是歡迎的是歡迎他們回來那"},{"start":11708.577,"end":11736.812,"text":"我舉例一下這個農民當初因為非自願離職遭資遣那符合勞保條例第9條之一規定說被裁減資遣且加保年資滿15年以上的這個勞工可以繼續參加勞保直到符合請領老人給付的日期那也就是可以一路加保到50歲因此呢他選擇就留在勞保體系當中確保更完整的這個退休保障那"},{"start":11738.553,"end":11764.084,"text":"選擇什麼樣子的社會福利是他身為公民的一個權益也是法律給他的保障那他來成農應該對於我們農業也是一個正面的幫助那所以我就想說部長那他已經確定回鄉復農多年但現在這不是個案喔因為他是勞保不是農保所以他在申請農業移工的時候面臨重重困難部長你可以有替他們解套的方案嗎"},{"start":11765.816,"end":11774.314,"text":"一個部分他如果原來城市農保他可以轉農保他的權益不會變他的權益不會變怎麼會不會變我也請我們的老保的那個同仁怎麼不會變"},{"start":11776.104,"end":11799.265,"text":"根委員報告他如果從勞保然後退保要參加農保只要符合我們農保的規定我現在在跟你講的就是我們的政府保障他身為公民的權益哪一種社會福利他怎麼選擇是他公民的權益他保勞保對他的下半身保障他可能退休一個月可以領一萬多他轉農保"},{"start":11801.267,"end":11814.878,"text":"他一個月只能領八千多 你可以理解嗎當然他希望他繼續勞保啦這是他身為公民的權益選擇不同的社會福利是他的權益欸你怎麼會說你可以退保加入農保啊你知道我真正在問你的問題嗎部長他不了解叫他去旁邊欸 部長"},{"start":11818.781,"end":11842.853,"text":"部長我在問你他不理解這個問題我知道我知道你不理解來部長就說那個輕農他可以選擇他原來要繼續在這個勞保體系或者他要加農保他要衡量他自身的這個權利是所以我問的不是這個問題我問的是假設他要升起移工他必須要農保那有沒有其他的解套方案呢"},{"start":11843.713,"end":11861.415,"text":"以現在目前的規定是沒有辦法因為以農業部來講我們是針對農保本身從事農業的人我們會來協助他申請外籍移工但是你剛才告訴我說你歡迎他們回來你歡迎他們回來務農但是你沒有辦法解決他們的困難"},{"start":11862.776,"end":11882.92,"text":"不具農保資格的部分如果你有銷售農產品的憑證的話這個我知道 全年銷售金額25萬以上或者是投入農資15萬以上並附佐證可是真正的困難就在這裡了 部長真正的困難就是實際上這套程序從佐證 舉證 審查到核可上難度明顯"},{"start":11888.257,"end":11905.331,"text":"高出農保非常的多那這一點呢我相信如果您去問實際執行這農糧署基層的單位一定可以了解很清楚說真的是困難重重所以我現在要跟部長反映的就是說我們既然歡迎這些勞動力回到"},{"start":11906.152,"end":11908.896,"text":"農業那我們有沒有辦法去解決他們的問題呢就是說你這個舉證的流程你審查的流程有沒有辦法簡化或者是放寬讓他們實際可以得到我們農業農糧單位的一個幫助呢"},{"start":11922.856,"end":11937.254,"text":"我想第一個部分如果在程序上能夠簡化我一定要求我們農養署盡快的把它簡化那第二個部分就是你剛才說的這些金額是不是有可能放寬那其實以現在來講它的生產資財一年15萬其實"},{"start":11939.557,"end":11944.5,"text":"合理 合理我只是希望說他的申請流程一定要簡化而且就是說你舉證你要讓他有多一點的舉證空間你不是說局限在什麼什麼因為你也知道現在農業你要開發票是很困難的你是不是有什麼購買的交易的評證等等"},{"start":11962.392,"end":11983.878,"text":"那包括說是不是他有沒有實際在務農其實我知道說你們規範這麼嚴格是怕說沒有實際在務農的人他也要利用這個等於是compound來請農業移工但是我是希望說真正需要的人我沒有想辦法去幫助他們甚至很多農會都可以舉證說這個人是不是有實際在從事農業是不是能夠放寬這個舉證的"},{"start":11988.699,"end":11997.545,"text":"條件 那還有多一點舉證的空間 而不是說單一說 你一定要什麼什麼那等於是限制了很多人 都沒有辦法來受到我們這個農業部的幫助"},{"start":12001.172,"end":12012.484,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒我想這個部分針對整個的流程包括你舉證的流程包括舉證的這些單據看怎麼樣的簡化我想我們會請農糧署來做一個檢討然後重新來規定麻煩部長了這個我覺得對於我們現在面臨的農業問題是一個很好的解決辦法因為"},{"start":12022.014,"end":12034.806,"text":"他們要回來我們都很高興啊那這些比較年輕的勞動力願意回頭投身到農業等於為我們這個農業注入一股活水啊但是他們面臨的問題比過去務農的這些傳統的務農的這些老農"},{"start":12038.65,"end":12055.067,"text":"更多元更不一樣那另外一個另外一個我必須要講喔就是說友善環境植物保護資材補助這個政策喔其實非常受歡迎非常受歡迎呢就是等於是補助有機肥料那在補助農民減少"},{"start":12057.809,"end":12071.74,"text":"化學農藥的使用轉而採用生物農藥那補助的金額是購買憑證所列的金額的二分之一申請是從年初到經費用完喔那今年的預算編列多少您知道嗎"},{"start":12073.592,"end":12102.361,"text":"大概六千五百萬六千四百九十幾萬大概六千五百萬左右六千四百六十九萬那是從這個農業發展基金所提撥的那它雖然是依各縣市農業現況來分配雲林也拿到了算是一個高的配比21%的對一千三百多對一個滿高的一個配比但是呢實際能夠仍然沒有辦法滿足實際的需求通常一開放喔"},{"start":12103.659,"end":12120.158,"text":"1月就用完了1月就申請完了所以這一點我必須要跟部長提醒說因為農友們之間會互相交流在其他的縣市類似桃園南投申請的難度就"},{"start":12120.839,"end":12146.233,"text":"比較低 因為他們的作物多元 不夠多元他們作物比較單一所以他們可能使用這個這個友善環境植物保護的資材比較少那是不是有辦法重新調配說需求比較低的地方他的比例可以釋放出來甚至說甚至說是不是整體的預算規模太小要不要增加這個預算規模呢"},{"start":12146.893,"end":12173.822,"text":"我第一個跟委員報告這個預算規模大概一年都是六千多萬左右那以去年來講如果不夠的時候我們還會去爭取相關的這些二倍金的部分不過今年就比較困難了因為今年我們在預算刪減的時候公務撥補基金被刪了九千萬雖然說刪得很少這個是一點點而已不對但是因為你刪了以後都不能動二倍金"},{"start":12175.004,"end":12191.383,"text":"我跟部長講部長 假設你真正有需求你提出我們本委員會不會不支持只要是地方真正的需求沒有 這個我一定要跟委員報告齁其他的經費刪減是一件事情但是你刪的公務撥補基金雖然說刪的九千萬很少"},{"start":12191.863,"end":12212.358,"text":"但是一旦刪的話依規定就不能動二倍金是 這個我們大家再來討論我先跟部長講就是說那針對這個友善植物環境保護的資產補助這個總預算你可不可以考慮下年度可以把它編高一點對 那今年是沒辦法下個年度我們希望能夠編高第二個部分"},{"start":12213.018,"end":12230.613,"text":"就像委員講的不同縣市它可能在時間上在種類上像雲林市比較多樣化所以我也要求防險署這邊分兩次然後第二次的時候如果說其他的縣市沒有用完的話我們就做調整大概用這種方式做調整因為真的有一些縣市它的作物比較單一它用不上"},{"start":12237.819,"end":12243.801,"text":"那是不是這個等於是用在真正有需要的地方我們盡可能做調度啦對 謝謝部長謝謝部長那最後我想可能時間也有限了那最後這一次特別預算4100億裡面本來我們農業部是說可以分到180億那"},{"start":12256.845,"end":12280.135,"text":"又增加了這個 等於是從880億增加到930億裡面我們農業部有沒有增加呢沒有 我們農業部還是維持180億這一點會不會太少了 我想部長一定要極力再爭取多一點我想第一個現在的關稅 最後的關稅還沒有確定嘛那萬一以後關稅定案以後 如果比現在的衝擊還大的時候我想我們一定會再向行政院去爭取經費"},{"start":12281.516,"end":12297.645,"text":"而且我目前本席聽到就是上次我們去關心那個台灣貂所有的中盤商現在現在上次我們不是說應該危機可以化為轉機嗎結果現在中盤商都出去壓低那個漁民的價格欸最近持邊價就已經上漲了2塊到5塊"},{"start":12298.646,"end":12324.215,"text":"沒有 昨天那好幾個那個產銷班都來跟我講 那個養殖班啊都來跟我講說直接產地價下殺10人如果有那個產地 產銷班的資訊你可以給我們我們可以來處理對啊 太可惡了 這裝盤商下去就直接給他殺10塊這可能是有特定的產銷班 那個產銷班去壓價啦對啊 太可惡了我想變成要個案去處理啦好啊好啊 那這一點也要拜託部長我們來處理 謝謝"},{"start":12326.869,"end":12341.097,"text":"好 謝謝我們現在請郭玉琴委員做詢答好 謝謝主席有請部長陳部長委員好"},{"start":12349.741,"end":12375.679,"text":"部長還記得這個不久這個新竹縣的一個動保團體苦追了大概有半年掌握了越南移工捕殺流浪貓犬跟山羌甚至石虎這樣子的一個案件那好不容易他們向這個彰化的動保處來做檢舉但是卻被動保處以沒有公權力為由所以他們轉而向警方來做投訴那後來警方也只能從旁去協助那到最後他們是找了這個"},{"start":12378.06,"end":12394.065,"text":"這個議員 這個江和樹議員但是因為江和樹議員把這個部分納為 揭露了他們苦追了半年原本應該可以抓到三十幾位涉案的人員現在目前只有一位被函送那這個部分其實也凸顯了一個問題就是沒有公權力這個問題"},{"start":12395.205,"end":12418.598,"text":"我想在去年的3月1號我想部長應該印象還深刻那時候您是代理部長所以那個時候其實我已經在這個總諮詢的時候已經明定了應該要從中央到地方我們要建立這個動保專責的一個單位就是能夠來及時制止這個加害者的一個執法的一個權利這是我第一次針對動保警察的事件來提出我的總諮詢"},{"start":12419.538,"end":12430.685,"text":"那個時候其實我們也有一個共識也有一個方向而且這個東寶警察的事件其實從2011年到2013年其實我們的民團就已經不斷的在倡議當中了但是呢"},{"start":12431.772,"end":12460.524,"text":"到了去年的6月28號總諮詢 另外一次總諮詢我想部長應該也又被我問到這一題了也是共識我們是賦予凍檢員司法警察權我們往這個方向來前進 當時部長也非常非常的肯定那我們當然也對這個部分所謂的凍保警察的一個編制我們也報了一份的信心但是呢到了這個去年的11月13號我在經濟委員會當中我再次的用凍保警察這個部分來"},{"start":12462.545,"end":12474.579,"text":"來做質詢那時候部長也承諾說會納入委員也就是我的一個意見來提出這個修法的一個版本但非常的遺憾到昨天我們確定向農業部動保司這邊來做確定動保司這邊"},{"start":12478.022,"end":12494.295,"text":"給我們的答案是賦予司法警察權將對體制造成嚴重的負擔實務上沒有辦法安排現有的人力接受長期的一個訓練所以不宜禁於修法推動沒有法規沒有編制當然就不會有源而我覺得這個部分是不是本末倒置了"},{"start":12495.543,"end":12508.087,"text":"我第一個跟委員說明就是我印象中在11月13日的時候我提出另外一個因為那時候在六月多的質詢的時候我們也曾經跟內政部做了一些討論事實上在更早之前在這個內閣之前也討論了"},{"start":12512.248,"end":12534.39,"text":"最主要是警察配合動保檢查人員當時配合得還不錯就是當你動檢員有需求的話警察就會來協助介入嘛介入來做這個處理但往往我們在事件發生當下比方說我們是一般民眾發生所謂的他檢舉了有人虐待動物他們過去的那個時間其實也會拉得很長對就是那個時間差的問題"},{"start":12536.212,"end":12556.133,"text":"那後來跟相關的內政部討論的時候他們還是覺得說能夠在我們自己的體制裡面去做處理所以我在11月份的時候也曾經提到一個用凍保檢查官就是凍檢的官就是類似是消保官的概念有沒有我那時候有提出來消保官的概念來去做因為現在最重要就是"},{"start":12557.074,"end":12580.1,"text":"跨縣市的還有中央跟地方還有一些地方的協調的部分那用動保官的方式來做協調那如果說我們把現在目前的動保檢察員賦予他的一個調查權力的話再賦予動保官的話那相對的也可以當作也可以取代現在目前的動保警察我現在我們回過頭來講我剛剛講到動保警察這個是真的"},{"start":12581.1,"end":12603.973,"text":"我們倡議了很久每一個委員幾乎也都會在部會的質詢當中也都會提到這個部分但問題是我們昨天接到的是這樣子的一個答案其實對很多人覬覦動保警察可以在我們在動物保護的這一塊發揮公權力的同時其實對這個答案對他們來講是非常非常令人失望的答案"},{"start":12605.101,"end":12628.927,"text":"我了解其實剛才委員所提到的我覺得我們同仁寫得不好當你入法以後就有編制就有原額你沒有入法就沒有編制就有原額所以我剛剛講了所以應該是反過來兩個是因果關係我剛剛講你沒有法規沒有編制當然就不會有原額但是你現在不能跟我講說因為人力不足所以我們現在不宜修法這個整個本末導致的一個這個回應我覺得實務上應該是"},{"start":12632.208,"end":12657.726,"text":"我們在處理動保法有很多不同的意見那我們都是有共識的我們先處理那以動保警察來講在部會之間的共識還沒有那我們的共識大概要處理多久因為從去年的第一個會期的3月1號我總質詢到現在已經經過了一年了我們還要多久什麼時候會有一個明確的一個共識可以出來可以讓我們有一個方向應該這邊有內政部的同仁吧是不是 有沒有"},{"start":12661.866,"end":12676.112,"text":"什麼時候什麼時候我們需要知道什麼時候因為這是從不管是之前誰執政到現在為止其實動保警察這個議題我們講了十幾年我知道我是可以請內政部就這個議題他們以他們部的立場然後我們再來啟動協調"},{"start":12682.47,"end":12696.428,"text":"我是內政部警政署行政署組長那針對這個動保警察這部分那實際上有幾點要提出報告就是說我現在其實沒有這麼多的時間我們事後給我辦公室一份報告好不好可以嗎"},{"start":12697.83,"end":12714.19,"text":"目前來講廣義的這個警察 當然我知道廣義的動保警察警察的人力是有限的但是因為我們跟農業部之前已經取得共識就是我們賦予所謂的動檢員他們有相對的可以執法的一個公權力"},{"start":12715.091,"end":12727.866,"text":"像我剛剛講的這個例子我們原本可以抓到三十幾個就是越南移工非法捕獵三槍甚至是石虎還有很多的流浪貓捲本來可以抓到三十幾個可是就因為我們的動保處就因為地方的動保處"},{"start":12731.69,"end":12750.411,"text":"沒有公權力這五個字一出現我們現在就是自害難行啊本來可以抓到三十幾個現在只有一個人被含送這個就是一個很大的問題啊農業部拜託想一下辦法我們往這個方面去去去有一點共識至少有一點成果給大家一個期待可以嗎我想兩個方式一個方式就是"},{"start":12752.006,"end":12767.643,"text":"我們會再跟內政部討論就是動保檢察員賦予司法的權責如果說內政部不反對就是由農業部這邊來處理然後包括後面的訓練由他們帶訓那這個部分我想委員就可以直接提案入法"},{"start":12768.163,"end":12792.022,"text":"入法以後我們就來處理好我們講的就是我們有法規才有編制才有緣和嘛對不對這個順序應該是這樣嘛不要回答我是反過來的順序說我們人力不夠所以沒辦法入法應該要有法規才有分明的編制最後一個問題我想這是公立收容所的一個問題我想爆倉的問題這個從2017年我們零撲殺之後其實不管是空間也好環境也好其實真的都造成很多的公立收容所他們在"},{"start":12792.702,"end":12812.939,"text":"整個所有內部收容的一個狀況那麼我們來看留於五年以上的是佔百分之二十那你要知道流氓貓狗其實如果真的待在收容所裡頭長達五年以上幾乎都是老的幾乎都是生病的但是也因為這樣孕育了很多的所謂的私人的收容所很多的愛爸愛媽他們的一個"},{"start":12814.76,"end":12836.241,"text":"私人收容所那時候其實我們跟這個動保處這邊我們真的也都有在溝通不管是地方的動保處也好或者是我們農業部這邊動保室也好我們都有在講是不是怎麼樣可以輔導這些所謂的私人的收容所讓他合法讓他入我們的一個管理我們把他弄成一個生命教育的園區來做這樣子的一個推廣一方面來減輕"},{"start":12837.202,"end":12856.202,"text":"公立收容所的一個收容的這個數量的壓力二方面其實我們也讓很多的生命教育讓我們的生命教育從小扎根讓它變成一個可以觀光的園區可以來學習生命教育的園區這個對他們來講其實真的我們是可以兩贏的這樣的一個方面我們這個部分可以進一步再來做研議嗎可以嗎"},{"start":12856.983,"end":12879.872,"text":"我非常認同委員所提到的就是說完全不能只靠公立的收容所那怎麼樣讓公立跟民間的收容所能夠成為一個協同協助的角色是非常重要的雖然說我們現在的動保法並沒有把這個民間的收容納入但是我想委員的版本有一些版本有納入那到時候審查的時候我想我們共同朝這個方向來做討論"},{"start":12881.613,"end":12909.778,"text":"我們現在得到您朝共同的方向但不要讓我聽了這一屆做完之後我還是聽不到真正的方向可以嗎可以 我想我們接下來討論主調討論的時候我們就把它確定下來好 那當然還有所謂這個公務照護的技術師啊但因為時間的關係我們用書面的我們到時候再請六月底這邊一起來願意六月底就會 上次有跟您承諾六月底就會送出來這個相關的指引好 謝謝部長 是謝謝主席好 謝謝現在請羅廷維委員做詢答"},{"start":12919.605,"end":12920.607,"text":"好 謝謝昭偉 有請部長陳部長"},{"start":12929.045,"end":12954.825,"text":"委員好部長好部長很多的委員對這個凍保警察都非常非常的支持包括我也是那我想在這個警察這兩字用在這邊對大家來說尤其是內政部其實他們是有蠻多的疑慮的那所以他們有一些自己的建議但我要講就是說其實基本上我們遇到的就是不管是你所謂的凍檢員或是凍保官"},{"start":12955.766,"end":12983.442,"text":"其實有很多東西我們都希望在文字上能夠去修正但主要是希望能夠賦予更多的公權力去執法那我們看到勞檢員勞動檢查法你不依勞動檢查法去規避甚至是拒絕做勞動檢查有3到15萬的一個罰款那凍檢的部分我們希望能夠給予更多的一些武器跟利器但是你也有提到一個很重要的就是沒有人力"},{"start":12984.52,"end":12992.386,"text":"那我想問一下你知道我們現在動保事件多半都是怎麼樣去查獲的嗎最一開始"},{"start":12993.78,"end":13021.401,"text":"這個通常都是民眾的一個檢舉最大宗的都是檢舉不管我們最近台中其實也蠻多有所謂的棄養路邊丟狗甚至有最近發生的就是捕犬貓食物來做食用販賣這些東西多半有可能一開始都是透過檢舉那我們我想要一個觀點跟你分享你知道現在警察有疫警"},{"start":13022.262,"end":13032.264,"text":"有民防你知道嗎知道透過一些訓練成為一個類似輔助志工的一個隊伍但是動保呢"},{"start":13033.223,"end":13054.04,"text":"有沒有這樣子透過專業的一個訓練把它納入當然有多半的都是所謂的公民團體他們在幫忙協助動保團體那我們非常感謝他們的一個協助但是能不能給予更多的資源先讓他們能夠加入這些動保的行列的時候有更多的保障"},{"start":13054.86,"end":13077.631,"text":"甚至有更多的一些資源給他們去用後續依序的慢慢在往我們的所謂的賦予更多的一個權力有所謂的洞檢員那洞檢員可能還會搭配更多的一些志工隊甚至這些志工隊不只是所謂的公民團體我們自己也有所謂的類似屬於洞堡的疫警洞堡的民防"},{"start":13078.371,"end":13091.946,"text":"明智不一定是要用這樣子但是他所賦予的一些相關的專業訓練資源我覺得這個是農業部可以給予更多的一個幫助您覺得這樣子的觀念可以嗎我跟你們報告其實現在就有義務的動物保護的檢查人員"},{"start":13094.629,"end":13116.729,"text":"義務的部分那也是我們的但是能力就我所知道並不是非常現在是比較少所以我想這個區塊是可以好好的去加強來協助因為現在全台灣的動員人員如果沒有記錯的話大概330幾個而已其實並不多啦所以我們整體的人力是不足的那所以幾乎都是靠這些所謂的動保團體公民團體在幫忙"},{"start":13117.85,"end":13136.159,"text":"所以勞動部要怎麼樣加強人力然後賦予更多的一些權力我覺得這是各個要去做一個探討然後多頭馬車去努力去執行的再來上次我有跟你提到農業部支持禁止夜市活體動物作為遊戲贈品希望設置落日條款進行一定時間的一個過渡"},{"start":13137.54,"end":13153.662,"text":"那本席也可以理解設置合理的緩衝期但是想進一步請教一下落日條款設計不能只有形式的過場真正要有助於政策的一個落實請問農業部合理的落日期間是多久半年一年還是兩年三年"},{"start":13154.703,"end":13175.257,"text":"這個部分我們必須要再跟產業因為這個議題在產業溝通的時候有兩極化的反應所以我們才會說在法裡面希望有一個能夠授權中央主管機關能夠指定公告的一個品項有沒有我希望能夠加強溝通趕快去訂定這一方面的一個期程但是我要提醒的是落日的期間"},{"start":13176.378,"end":13204.96,"text":"是不是也會同步要求業者改善動物飼養環境進行輔導落日的期間是否農業部可以建立定期的稽查違規的處理的一個配套我本席認為如果有這樣子的落日條款我們可以接受但是就應該要有明確的落日時間表明確的一個輔導機制協助業者轉型甚至是轉換非動物性商品的一個獎品我想這個落日"},{"start":13206.161,"end":13231.716,"text":"後續有項的違規才加重罰但是中間怎麼輔導這個設計的方案農業部是否能夠承諾在修法協商的時候也補充這個具體的方案我想我們在後續條文協商的時候我們一定會強化這個區塊特別是當如果說在討論的時候能夠受嚴重的話主管機關能夠公告不受這個禁止影響的部分也要有個弱智條款"},{"start":13232.136,"end":13254.49,"text":"在落日的過程中也要達到所謂的友善動物的這樣子的一個精神納在這個區塊裡面不是說你排除了以後就不管它了這個部分我想我們會來積極來處理這個部分我要麻煩你們要積極因為我們點出這些問題那實驗動物來源的缺乏管理我們一直在講實驗動物的這些動保權這個部分現在台灣有192個實驗動物機構每年使用的實驗動物數量高達"},{"start":13262.517,"end":13275.013,"text":"116萬隻還包含這個禽蛋魚胚胚胎等未納入統計的一個動物這代表台灣科學研究中使用動物的規模龐大持續的成長這些動物的來源主要如下國內的繁殖場"},{"start":13278.476,"end":13303.815,"text":"74.28%那自行繁殖的有13.16%在應用的是5.18%那市場或寵物店購買的是3.03%其他的有1.92%野外捕捉的是0.93%然後國外進口是0.82%學術交流是0.68%也就是說超過七成的實驗動物來自於國內的繁殖場而繁殖場的管理狀況如果不加也會影響到"},{"start":13305.076,"end":13324.871,"text":"實驗動物的一個健康狀態以及實驗結果的可信度所以帶到這些數字我希望你們能夠重視相關的國內繁殖場農業部有沒有訂定管理的標準比方說繁殖設置的設立標準動物檢查的疾病篩檢要求以及遺傳背景的登錄管理等等有沒有"},{"start":13325.992,"end":13340.066,"text":"現在的法並沒有做它的修正不過我們用現行法去做授權的執法來處理這個繁殖跟相關的飼養的這些辦法我想動保法超過20年了"},{"start":13341.487,"end":13361.784,"text":"農業部都沒有訂出實驗動物來源管理辦法那這個部分我希望我不是要究責但我希望我們要探討這個問題因為我剛剛已經講了它的健康如果它沒有設立得很好它就會影響到這些實驗動物的健康就會影響到實驗的結果我們希望能夠更加照顧也希望實驗結果有所成效"},{"start":13362.304,"end":13390.491,"text":"所以這個東西是有必要的我希望農業部能夠好好的在這一次修法的當中能夠也把這個實驗動物來源管理辦法的草案能夠訂定出來部長可以承諾嗎我想實驗動物本身因為它現在的機制就有它有一個實驗動物的一個審查辦法它一定是因為做實驗一定是非常重視這些動物的來源我想相關的部分部主我才會點出這個問題我希望你能夠承諾會後我會繼續追對我想這個部分也許可以在"},{"start":13392.152,"end":13396.535,"text":"調溫討論的時候 我們再來討論 看有什麼樣的方式能夠達到委員的意見 想法好 謝謝我們現在請葉元之委員做詢答請農運部長 謝謝陳部長"},{"start":13427.946,"end":13448.237,"text":"針對動保法我這邊有新增14條之三用意是修法的目的是希望能夠把民間的動物的收容數那一定規模的一些飼養戶希望能夠納管取得地方政府的登記或許可避免不當大量飼養動物的行為這個在"},{"start":13449.398,"end":13465.546,"text":"你們回應裡面都是這樣子寫說利益良善但後面這段我就不是太認同你們說但是因為這些收容所樣態複雜而且土地利用正義可能是說他可能在一些違法的土地使用上面做這個收容所所以啊"},{"start":13466.266,"end":13493.851,"text":"因為納管的話很多人會違法倒閉會造成問題所以就覺得不贊成這樣的立法那我其實對於農業部這樣的回應我是非常保留的態度啦以前也有很多未立案的工廠他也是會有土地利用的問題比如說在農地上面或在哪裡上面但是當時經濟部也有訂定未立案工廠的相關的管理辦法然後透過地方政府去輔導他們合法"},{"start":13495.308,"end":13512.746,"text":"過去都可以對於衛利案的工廠可以這樣做為什麼現在對於如果有收養大量飼養戶的這些民間動物送貨所卻因為可能管理很麻煩然後會導致他們可能會土地利用問題所以就不管了這個差別在哪"},{"start":13514.233,"end":13533.556,"text":"我剛才看了我們部裡面同仁回應的這個第二條的部分我也覺得不恰當啦你也覺得不恰當我也覺得不恰當啦因為相關的違法就是違法那不能說違法太多了以後沒辦法管的時候所以你這邊交給立法院的報告部長本人沒看過那你怎麼來備詢"},{"start":13534.875,"end":13560.507,"text":"不是他整個的部分就是相關的他們基本上我這個其實在會前有跟他們討論過因為那時候已經印了列印了所以我在這一次的簡報上面我就沒有寫這一個那對於這個那所以部長你對於你自己交出來這個報告你不認同這也太奇怪了那你沒關係我不為難你啦那所以如果是由你來撰寫的話你會怎麼回答"},{"start":13561.24,"end":13587.574,"text":"我想基本上我們會根據他的情節特別他飼養的這些寵物本身的危險性用這樣的一個動物的分類的概念去處理這樣的一個意義所以還是會納管我是希望是納管的你希望納管大園子還是會納管只是他們在寫這個理由的時候我是覺得文字他這邊就說沒有要納管他說建議還是由地方政府"},{"start":13588.514,"end":13596.063,"text":"以符合動物福祉的飼養方式輔導啊就沒有要納管的意思啊但是部長你現在意思是說你自己是支持就對了"},{"start":13596.952,"end":13621.151,"text":"我基本上是支持這樣的一種看法好 謝謝那接下來因為在總質詢的時候我們有問到川普希望能夠台灣取消一些非關稅的貿易障礙其中他對於我們的豬肉標示原產地一直很有意見這是美國啦美國一直很有意見那我記得部長你在總質詢的時候你回答說這個不是政府要求的這是"},{"start":13622.592,"end":13644.223,"text":"民間自發性的行為那我印象當中就不是這樣所以特別去把當時的一些新聞找出來你看這是那時候中央社報導第二行就很明確的寫得很清楚說政府要求業者必須標示產地然後衛福部跟農委會當時是農委會現在是農業部當時還各自推出標章"},{"start":13645.951,"end":13669.184,"text":"衛福部有自己的台灣做標章農委會也有台灣做標章所以還造成了一個標章之亂在那個時候所以明明就是農業部衛福部要求的然後前農委會主委陳吉仲那個時候在新聞版面上面大幅的出現拿這個標章來做宣導怎麼會現在忽然變成說這個東西跟政府無關這個東西是業者的自發性行為"},{"start":13671.412,"end":13692.603,"text":"我要跟委員報告我們當初設計的台灣豬的標章他在法上面我們是鼓勵我們台灣用台灣豬的商店去貼這個標章所以貼這個標章是屬於自願性的不是強制性的你自己看這中央社國家通訊社我還沒有講完但是整個的"},{"start":13693.323,"end":13712.928,"text":"租的標示的部分是衛福部那衛福部他有他的一個租及租可食部位的一個標示追溯的管理辦法在那個辦法裡面是規定是強制的我覺得部長我覺得你這種講法就有點甩鍋了那個時候誰不知道說是農業部衛福部一直要求大家店家要去貼這個台灣豬標章"},{"start":13713.908,"end":13730.79,"text":"就現在面臨到那個關稅談判的時候忽然又講說那根本沒關係喔如果有貼的話那個是業者的自發性行為喔不貼也沒關係喔你現在的態度就是不貼也沒關係嘛我們是一向是鼓勵那你有沒有鼓...那我問一下政府現在的態度還有沒有鼓勵"},{"start":13731.651,"end":13747.779,"text":"業者貼農業部現在有沒有鼓勵大家還是鼓勵我們還是鼓勵說他本身是使用台灣豬很好你們還是鼓勵嘛我們還是鼓勵好謝謝那如果今天美國說不好意思農業部你不能再鼓勵了衛福部你也不能再鼓勵了"},{"start":13748.559,"end":13776.659,"text":"最好這個標章是越少越好那農業部可以堅持說為了我們的食安或者是為了我們的農業你還是持續鼓勵大家一定要貼這個台灣豬標章嗎我相信我們的鼓勵是不會被挑戰的啦因為所有的鼓勵是業者的願意接受我們的鼓勵去貼的那是自發性的行為所以你是很多東西你都說鼓勵啦譬如說以前蛋價啊你們都會講說你們建議業者啊或者是你們沒有干預啊但實際上農業部有講話誰不會做"},{"start":13778.683,"end":13807.232,"text":"我覺得實務就不是這樣嘛沒有關係部長你剛剛已經承諾了啦因為我們現在就是怕說在關稅談判的時候會影響到我們一些食安的把關嘛那部長你剛剛已經講過你們還會還是會持續鼓勵我們的業者貼台灣做標章我覺得這樣就夠了啦這樣就夠了啦對這樣就夠了啦保護我們的農業嘛保護我們的食安嘛這是政府應該有態度啦就是說美國要幹嘛就幹嘛對我們農業部的職責啊好 謝謝"},{"start":13808.851,"end":13811.033,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們是有請農業部長陳部長部長好"},{"start":13839.022,"end":13849.628,"text":"部長我們事實上在早上9點的時候我們有開記者會我們是集會委員那我們是針對現在是這個關稅那這個國土強韌特別條例強化經濟社會及國土強韌的一個特別條例的一個草案"},{"start":13860.779,"end":13875.386,"text":"那這個草案編列的4100億那我們看到農業的部分大概還是維持180億那我們主要的一個訴求就是說你看從這個關稅的時候原本880億農業部是匡列180億"},{"start":13878.787,"end":13881.789,"text":"現在已經擴張到了4100億的一個規模但是農業的部分還是180億所以我想要請教部長你認為180億足以因應我們接下來因為關稅談判的一個結果"},{"start":13893.958,"end":13918.373,"text":"所對於我們的農水產品造成的衝擊180億過嗎我想跟委員報告就是現在關稅正在談判所以最後的關稅的結果是怎麼樣還有很高的不確定性那以現在10%的30天的暫緩期那在這個短時間之內透過金融支持跟後面的國內外行銷的部分這個經費看起來是足夠的"},{"start":13919.033,"end":13947.976,"text":"但是如果後續如果關稅定案以後關稅的衝擊我們會重新去評估這樣這樣的衝擊如果遠高於我們預期的時候那相對的我們需要更多的經費一定會向行政院去做爭取所以未來未來可能還是會跟行政爭取還是會繼續爭取現在關稅不確定性很高嘛到底是多少還不確定部長我要跟你提示一件事情齁所謂的關稅你說不確定性這個不確定性不只是來自於台灣跟美國的關稅不確定喔"},{"start":13948.796,"end":13969.224,"text":"甚至包括其他國家跟美國的關稅都會衝擊到我們台灣的產業尤其會衝擊到農業我舉例就是像類似中國縱使我們跟美國最後有一個關稅的一個定案但是中國跟美國之間的關稅好如果高達了現在說145%那勢必未來中國的這個農產品不會進入到美國的嘛"},{"start":13973.846,"end":13980.252,"text":"他會衝擊到我們其他的目標市場國對,然後中國的農產品就會遭到捕獲遭到捕獲一定就是手機就爛了所以這個的一個影響並不是說我們跟美國談的怎樣那到底我們未來跟美國的品項或者是我們要擴大採購美國的一些產品"},{"start":13994.986,"end":14016.252,"text":"也不是這樣而已,還有這個後面連帶的一個效應了解,就像委員所提到的,我以毛豆為例,毛豆我們最主要的產品是銷往日本那中國是銷往美國,那中國不能銷往美國的時候,它一定往日本市場到所以我們整個的一個方案支持也去強化的回防日本"},{"start":14016.972,"end":14039.039,"text":"就是我們要進去美國也要回防日本這個部分就是我們要去綜合考量除了我們跟美國的關稅以外還有美國跟特別是跟中國的關稅還有跟我們主要的競爭對手國的關稅是怎麼樣子我們才能夠評斷後續的產業支持方案怎麼去調整好所以我們就是類似在這個行銷的部分如果這樣看起來這個180億裡面你們這個擴大74億吧"},{"start":14045.588,"end":14050.451,"text":"我這邊看到72億嘛 擴大海外行銷是50億那擴大國內行銷是22億所以這72億大概就是在於行銷這部分那既然有這72億的話我想要請教部長我們的具體作為是什麼我想有分為幾塊第一個區塊就是"},{"start":14066.441,"end":14091.771,"text":"你持續外銷的時候有所謂的外銷獎勵的部分然後第二個區塊就是其實我們要趁這個機會去建構我們的國外的通路所以我們會加強我們的產品在國外的行銷的部分包括行銷的展覽或行銷的布展的部分甚至於跟國外的通路商連結的部分的這些媒合這個部分我們都會去加強然後不只是美國市場還有其他的主要目標市場我們都會來處理"},{"start":14093.174,"end":14100.92,"text":"那我們有可能在國內也辦了類似日本東京食品展類似這樣的一個策展我們也在規劃台灣有沒有能量辦這樣的一個策展邀請國際的一些業者國際的人採購來看台灣的農村產品"},{"start":14109.126,"end":14123.576,"text":"過去都是我們到東京去因為我們想賣到東京去我們現在每一年類似的像國際的食品展也在台灣辦那類似的展覽我們也正在評估看有沒有機會我們有沒有辦法爭取到類似這樣的一些國際策展然後在台灣舉辦然後讓台灣"},{"start":14126.198,"end":14146.23,"text":"的這個農水產品可以大量的在這個策展裡面被大家看見我想非常謝謝韋的建議我想我們會真的這個部分我們會用一個專案的方式來評估看有沒有機會去爭取國家國際的大展在我們台灣舉辦我覺得這部分真的是要對這個部分很好的想法我們會來努力來找那部長這部分再加油"},{"start":14147.711,"end":14173.908,"text":"那再進入一個產業的議題就是說現在那個養羊的協會雖然台灣的養羊並不是太多不過這個也是基於糧食安全事實上這樣的一個畜牧產業還是有它存續的一個需求那麼他們現在面對的就是價格的因素大概從過去的一個拍賣價格在260塊現在都降到了179塊"},{"start":14175.809,"end":14197.257,"text":"所以價格降很多那已經遠低於他們的成本價大概是在230左右所以面對這樣的一個產業的困境那農業部我們有沒有怎樣因應的一個作為呢我想跟委員報告這個羊肉的部分其實也超乎我們的預期就是一般羊肉通常在冬天它的比較吃得比較多比較有餡可是相比我們從一月到三月"},{"start":14199.618,"end":14222.186,"text":"溫度比較低的時候它的價格還是不斷的下降表示說我們的消費者對吃羊肉這些這件事情好像越來越不熱衷所以怎麼樣讓消費者從實這樣子吃羊肉的這樣子一個產品包括產品的開發包括行銷跟宣導我已經要求我們的畜牧師不能只注重牛肉羊有沒有還要針對這些"},{"start":14223.626,"end":14243.283,"text":"小眾的這個產業也要加強去做一些宣導跟提供一個讓國人知道的一個行銷的一個作為這個養羊協會是有具體說農業部能不能在他們這個比較寒冬的時候比較辛苦的時候對他們做一些這個屠宰的費用的一個補助啦"},{"start":14243.763,"end":14264.357,"text":"那我想這部分農業部是可以爭取一下我們會來評估但是更重要就是我想我們在接近寒冬的時候甚至不一定在寒冬啦就是要多一點的國內的行銷跟宣導讓消費者來飲用啦來使用我覺得這個部分我們會先來做那到時候的屠宰如果需要我對我也有吃過我們國產的油肉啦說實在的國產的油肉喔那個鹹味嘛那個鹹的味比較沒那麼重對啦我覺得是很好吃"},{"start":14271.162,"end":14292.596,"text":"所以這個事實上農業部事實上再幫他們宣導一下料理包的部分我們會支持啦然後最後土宅的部分的協助我們到時候再看它整個的行銷的情況怎麼樣沒關係我覺得說台灣是因為我們要每一種蛋白質都很重要嘛那不同的產類有的雖然比較是小眾但是遇到困難的時候我們農業部還是要給他們寓意我想我們會關注這個產業好那如果進入今天的這個議題我最後講一下"},{"start":14298.32,"end":14319.551,"text":"事實上整個流浪狗的問題在於鄉下,尤其是海邊,事實上是很嚴重的那尤其是在養殖業越發達的地方,大概流浪狗的問題就越嚴重因為現在的流浪狗,這個是成群結隊的,而且牠們很厲害牠們沒到蜜蜀的時候,牠們也會跳到溪溫,每次去抓魚"},{"start":14323.033,"end":14348.19,"text":"但是抓魚來吃,那是真的很厲害這個流浪狗已經都變成獵犬他們直接都可以自己抓魚所以我覺得要處理流浪狗的問題這個總共很複雜的所以柏定我剛剛有聽到你回覆了很多委員的質詢不過我覺得有幾個面向我們可能可以優先處理第一個就是說這個餵食的這個就是有很多"},{"start":14350.832,"end":14371.763,"text":"愛心比較豐富的會餵食流浪狗那他去餵食流浪狗這件事就是會變成讓這些流浪狗會置身會繼續然後會在這邊變成一個族群所以我覺得餵食這件事應該要適度的予以限制不要讓他們再餵食了"},{"start":14372.703,"end":14395.544,"text":"好,那如果沒有辦法把法定定到,含罪人這個餵食流浪狗的話那至少如果他有餵食的行為的話,是不是就要把他認定推定他們是事主那如果發生了流浪狗去追人,流浪狗造成追車然後讓我們現在的四大人騎腳踏車去流浪狗,要把他拔到手上"},{"start":14396.567,"end":14418.837,"text":"那是不是這一些餵食的人就是說因為如果有證據證明這次流浪狗他有餵食的話他就要推定為市主所以他也應該要負擔市主跟市主一樣的責任動保法第三條第一項第七款的市主責任謝謝委員事實上現在目前有一些案例也用這樣的方式判定了但是"},{"start":14419.497,"end":14440.436,"text":"要避免那個流浪犬群聚其實飼主的餵養的這個事件如果能夠適度的停止的時候會有比較好的結果那現在我們在自然保護區的部分就已經強制性的禁止餵養但是在社區的部分你要用強制的話可能會遭到很大的反彈所以我們會再更努力的讓"},{"start":14443.089,"end":14461.304,"text":"餵養的特定的人士知道如果那隻被你養的這隻狗 如果貓如果發生 造成一些人權衝突的時候他必須要負擔事主責任事主責任 這樣的話他們可能就會讓他們有點擔心啦所以這個宣導就變得非常重要我想後續我們會再"},{"start":14462.505,"end":14480.32,"text":"所以部長你說得很清楚嘛現在他有餵食如果這部分被人家拍照起來證明說這一隻雖然是流浪狗但是他就固定在餵食他嘛只要有證據的話他就要負擔事主責任至少部長你在這一個點你是支持而且你會貫徹這樣做而且我們應該更加強宣導讓他們知道啦這樣的話可能會減少這些飼養的行為"},{"start":14486.886,"end":14496.451,"text":"好 那就從宣導面先加強啦那這郵輪局的問題 我覺得這集結實在時間不夠了以後有機會再跟部長來討論 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝好 謝謝我們現在請李坤澄委員做詢問謝謝主席"},{"start":14512.196,"end":14516.132,"text":"我先讓部長喝口水來問請陳部長陳部長"},{"start":14523.962,"end":14545.316,"text":"委員好部長好這早上我在做這個提案說明的時候我有特別提到說我們行政院的版本還沒有來那請問一下行政院版本現在是卡在哪裡沒有現在就是最後一步就是要通過院會以後就可以出立法院那剛才我也跟包括謝議員委員召委這邊提到的就是我們"},{"start":14545.876,"end":14568.328,"text":"目標是下個禮拜希望能夠協調行政院能夠納到下個禮拜的院會報告院會報告以後在五月上旬看看有沒有機會送到立法院來審議那所以這樣聽起來應該是在院那邊應該沒什麼大問題因為已經審查完了最後一關就是要在院會報告那審查完基本上有什麼大問題嗎"},{"start":14570.554,"end":14598.159,"text":"有一些問題但是經過溝通大概現在目前為止版本大概都已經定案了這樣子喔對那這個本席有提案那我覺得比較重要的幾點再提出來跟部長再討論那第一個你們現在有關於這個寵物食品安全管理法是另外一個法了對不對是那這個法現在也是在預告的部分嗎我跟委員報告本來動保法裡面有一個跟寵物食品有關的條文對"},{"start":14599.139,"end":14622.578,"text":"但是因為寵物食品是大家非常關心的從原料的來源到生產製造到產品的開發跟內容物的安全性所以他很多委員就提出說要變成一個專法你也說要專法所以這個專法預計現在已經完成了在我們的部裡面的法規會審查那我是要求五月底一定要出"},{"start":14623.839,"end":14643.059,"text":"農業部進到行政院然後目標是下個會期能夠進到立法院好 那這個這還算蠻明確的那第二個就是說在那個就是加重刑責這部分的話那這個我們農業部的版本咧"},{"start":14644.246,"end":14662.546,"text":"我們是有加重我們也同意這個方向至於刑度有沒有跟他的罰款併割罰金的這個部分到底是多少萬可能大家到時候版本提出來的時候大家再來討論所以這個刑責就跟你們預告的是一樣就是有加重有加重那就是跟預告的是一樣"},{"start":14663.687,"end":14685.544,"text":"不同的委員有不同的版本到時候我們再來看看哪一個刑度刑責跟他的罰款是大家可以接受的好那我早上有提到就是說我們現在有一些民間他有一些動物的收容所那他其實養的也蠻多的啦那規模也蠻大的那可是的話你們我是提案說納管那就是你們"},{"start":14686.742,"end":14701.212,"text":"認為說如果納管這個進去的話那會變成是說問題可能會衍生其他的問題啦那可是不納管也不行啦我是說這部分的話你們要做怎麼樣做處理啊我剛才也跟其他幾位委員提到"},{"start":14702.112,"end":14731.033,"text":"我非常認同就是說所有的這些動物收農不能只靠公家單位啦一定要公家單位跟民間的都協同作業的方式那雖然說現在民間的收農所不管它的土地的土地的合法性或是它設施設備裡面的設施設備的完整度跟它的衛生安全可能都有一些差異性那如果直接納管的時候其實同仁是擔心直接納管相關的規範一出來"},{"start":14731.773,"end":14753.989,"text":"可能完全 可能本來一百家 可能剩下十家但是也不能因為 但是也不能因為這樣子不做啦所以我覺得應該要有一個輔導期啦等於說訂了這樣 我想方向是我們都要認同透過公家跟民間的一起但是相對的民間的整個納管 應該要有一個輔導期"},{"start":14755.51,"end":14774.582,"text":"那這個輔導棋讓我們去協助民間業者取得比較安全衛生的環境來做這樣的一個收容的動作然後才真正的開始實施我們是期待用這樣的方式來處理好 那就是說就是有關民間部分的話還是會做管理就對了啦那管理就是會有一個輔導棋"},{"start":14776.983,"end":14802.345,"text":"那另外一個還是大家也蠻關心就是說這個動物檢查的這個職權那可是我剛聽這個部長的這一個你的概念應該是說他不是警察但是他是類似一個動物檢察官的意思嗎還是什麼小保官的概念小保官那那個概念是什麼樣我想我們現在目前實務上就是當有人檢舉然後我們的動保檢察員去訪查的時候如果需要"},{"start":14803.525,"end":14818.182,"text":"進一步的做調查的時候就會通知警察單位來協助目前現況是這樣子現在這樣但是我們也知道他可能有點時間差有點時間差所以有很多委員說因為這種時間差會導致很多他沒辦法"},{"start":14818.642,"end":14841.118,"text":"其實進去處理對所以希望有個動保警察但是動保警察就牽涉到警察的職務對這屬於內政部的那跟內政部討論警察還有警察的本身的一些很多業務所以我們基本上也尊重那如果不是用動物警察的這一個權利的話那有什麼其他可以去說然後剛才也有委員提到就是說我們賦予"},{"start":14842.839,"end":14855.972,"text":"動物檢查單元的司法職權我不一定稱它為警察但是它具有司法的職權的部分然後如果說大家有認同這個方向的時候也許我們可以透過後面的這些"},{"start":14857.372,"end":14874.878,"text":"入法以後後面的這些訓練但是我也必須提醒現在的動保檢查人員他能夠進來的科目如果是高考的話科目跟未來如果有賦予司法警察的人士的這些要求就不一樣了"},{"start":14875.798,"end":14898.285,"text":"那專業就不一樣了那個部分可能都要重新針對人力跟相關的調整那這個部分如果說我們後續再主要討論的時候如果大家有一致的共識那農業部基本上立場也是希望朝這個方向就是有更好的更有效率的但是也考量到部會之間我們也希望說大家也彼此尊重那看找到一個平衡點我們再來推動"},{"start":14898.925,"end":14914.293,"text":"好那最後一個問題請教就是說就比較不幸的事情就是說4月21號我們有一隻台灣黑熊那不幸在花蓮地方然後他應該是被我們這一個林業署的這一個管理員好像是那"},{"start":14915.974,"end":14932.952,"text":"那當然我看那一個整個的流程來講就是說他是為了要保護自己因為那個黑熊他其實已經有那個有那個動作就是殺一隻狗啊對那有可能對人會造成這一個危害所以我們那位管理員他有開槍啦"},{"start":14934.013,"end":14961.269,"text":"那我想起來就是說在兩三年前也有一隻台灣黑熊還要寫成一本書就是這個未完的旅程一隻台灣黑熊的人間啟示錄但也是一隻台灣黑熊他要回到他的家鄉回到他的住的地方大雪山可是在回程的過程當中也是因為比較輕就是已經到了這個人類居住的地方然後也引起這個人類的這個這個要自我保護然後也射殺了這個黑熊那我在想說"},{"start":14962.029,"end":14978.711,"text":"這件事情對於這個農業部或對我們林業署來講有沒有什麼要檢討的地方我覺得每一件事情背後都有它改進的空間其實在當下如果黑熊開始入侵這些民宅的時候我們做驅離那其實驅離就應該"},{"start":14981.311,"end":15001.32,"text":"更遠的方向去驅離因為黑熊如果有習慣去吃這些雞啊這些東西它有食物來源的話它就不容易離開啦所以那個時候如果說我們能夠在第一時間如果能夠將這些黑熊再去往更深山的地方或更其他的地方去也能夠避免這樣的一個情況當時有辦法這樣做嗎"},{"start":15003.542,"end":15018.001,"text":"因為我沒有在現場我不是很了解那我們曾經也檢討過如果但是相對我們並沒有抓到他只是我們人去去驅惑他的時候他就跑掉了那跑掉以野生動物來講我們不會去追他去抓捕他啦"},{"start":15018.963,"end":15036.406,"text":"所以後續我覺得還有就是因為當下在處理的時候他是比較黑暗嘛那因為熊的那個個體還有他當下剛好在吃那隻狗所以他有那個護那個食物的那個動作有沒有不管他是驚嚇看到人也會怕我相信他看到人也會怕啦"},{"start":15037.286,"end":15061.002,"text":"彼此之間 我想我們護管員的安全是非常重要的所以我們也不會就責說他開槍殺死這個捷寶動物因為他本身也是布農族的他應該也是布農族的在布農族他們的禁忌裡面是不能夠殺黑熊的所以相關就是當他自身安全受到影響所以後面的檢討其實我覺得後續如果還有還會發生這種情形的話我們在第一時間應該讓這隻黑熊遠離更遠的地方"},{"start":15067.086,"end":15078.456,"text":"避免再度的這樣子的一個來侵害我們的鄉村的那我再問一下我現在知道說我們台灣黑熊大概有幾隻嗎幾隻六百隻左右六百隻左右那"},{"start":15084.351,"end":15099.148,"text":"這個數字這個數字是應該是有保護成功吧對啊這個數字跟五年前族群有增加啦剛才有委員說已經增加600隻是不是還是還是保育類動物當然是啊還是啊"},{"start":15100.61,"end":15116.585,"text":"就跟食虎一樣啊都是保育類的動物我覺得台灣熊是一個台灣蠻具有特色的一個動物但是因為如果它數量多然後它現在那個因為它的清洗我看它的路徑也會到低海拔的地方那我覺得接下來怎麼去教導不管是"},{"start":15117.285,"end":15133.833,"text":"住在附近的人或是說遊客我覺得可能這部分關於人跟熊之間如何和諧相處這部分我覺得可能要多一些的一些指導原則出來我也跟委員報告我們現在推動了那個生態給付的概念就是說"},{"start":15134.773,"end":15153.973,"text":"特別是在原民部落的部分他可以領一些撐帶給付然後跟我們農業部門一起合作然後一起來遇到黑熊的話能夠通報我們然後我們來協助來處理的方式那也因為這個績效做得很好所以相對的這些黑熊被誤殺被獵捕的機會變少了"},{"start":15156.075,"end":15179.918,"text":"然後受傷被通報的我們能夠及時把他救回的個案也越來越多所以他的族群是越來越上面所以後續我們會持續用生態警務的方式讓原民部落跟我們做一個共同守護的一個動作好OK好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝我們現在請何新淳委員做詢問何新淳委員不在何新淳委員不在現在請吳佩義委員做詢問"},{"start":15188.854,"end":15190.779,"text":"好謝謝主席我請農業部部長陳部長"},{"start":15198.817,"end":15205.681,"text":"部長好 去年的6月我在針對院長的總諮詢當中當時你也在現場有提出關於寵物食品管理法這個專法訂定的關切那因為其實台灣需要一部寵物食品管理專法這個從20年前就開始討論了所以這是全國的4組以及300隻的犬貓隻大家共同的期待"},{"start":15224.031,"end":15249.993,"text":"那我知道去年你們也開始啟動然後也邀請各界專家民間團體等等來進行研議剛剛我聽到部長說是預計下個會期要送到立法院嗎對我跟委員報告這個寵物食品專法本身包括委員多次的質詢我們也多次的討論然後在5月底我們一定在內部完成我們的法制作業會送到行政院去"},{"start":15250.493,"end":15276.989,"text":"是那行政院會經過法條的審議我們目標是下個會期送到立法院來好那原先我們其實是期待你們這個會期可以送進來但是我知道因為他需要跟很多各界大家要審慎的來把他完備討論要去修正沒有錯這我們也認同那除了這個這次本次的修法等於是我們首度把這一個業者的責任如果製造販賣不合格的儲物食品"},{"start":15277.449,"end":15286.275,"text":"然後危害到安全的話首度納入刑罰除了刑罰以外其實更加重要的是未來我們要如何來輔導跟執行所以我想現在法下個會期送進來那你們針對未來這個寵物食品專法上路之後例如說我們現在要求業者要自行檢驗"},{"start":15296.122,"end":15317.582,"text":"未來這個像實驗室的量能是否充足未來的稽查的工作中央地方的分工對相關的這些輔導有沒有已經開始來跟業者以及跟地方政府來進行討論溝通我想我們已經在法雖然說現在還沒送到立法院來還沒有完成公告但是相關的配套措施包括您剛才講的"},{"start":15319.713,"end":15345.444,"text":"產品寵物食品的安全非常重要所以雖然說自主檢驗他可以委託的時候有沒有所以SGS的相關的標準實驗室相關的實驗室那因為我們農業部目前我們針對包括農藥包括其他的有害物質的檢查的相關的點位非常多所以我們為了媒合就是讓寵物業者這些食品業者能夠知道相關的這些檢查站在哪邊然後怎麼樣的收費這個我們開始就在討論了"},{"start":15347.205,"end":15355.575,"text":"好所以我們希望啦這個法新法要訂定但是在中央跟地方政府之間我們要有充分的來協作那因為這個專法下會期才會進來但是我很關切的就是剛講的儲物食品的安全所以在這次"},{"start":15362.142,"end":15364.464,"text":"我們今天是這個凍飽法的修法的詢答嘛我也提出了第22條之4的修法就是明確的把我們現在具體可行的就是包括如果說在這個寵物食品當中它有這個樣態是包括了摻味或假冒"},{"start":15380.398,"end":15395.366,"text":"變質或腐敗有這樣的情況我們就可以符合來進行下架這個我看到你們今天的報告裡面也有提到過去在食物上確實有就是已經有查到就是有不明的異物摻雜在寵物飼料裡面但是卻沒有辦法下架這個是什麼樣的問題呢"},{"start":15402.209,"end":15428.305,"text":"我們過去在食物上遇到的狀況是 報告委員我們查獲的目前法律的動保法的授權沒有包括義務所以我們沒辦法依據那個法規的要求要他下架甚至是做一個行政的一個處分所以我們這次的修法特別把這個部分也一併納進來包括便紙跟含義務的部分食物上會遇到的義務比較多樣態會是像哪些類型大概罐頭裡面的塑膠片"},{"start":15429.105,"end":15443.156,"text":"然後或者是製程裡面殘留的一些就是我們很明顯的一些 比如說塑膠珠或是一些包裝的所以明確有查到的 根據現行法規無法要求下架那像變質或腐敗 我明確知道它已經發霉了"},{"start":15444.497,"end":15459.659,"text":"也沒有辦法要求它下降這是我們現在遇到的情況目前我們查獲的就是有發霉可是這個部分是發霉沒問題可是變質打開已經有異位了這部分那我們檢測的標準也都符合可是這部分就是沒辦法採訪"},{"start":15460.6,"end":15489.447,"text":"那我們就是希望說我們現在我剛剛講這兩個樣態其實是比照食安法第15條啦兩個樣態先把它先行先修及我們現在動保法第22之4條這個部分是我今天的提案版本那我希望說動保法先行先修這一條但是我們還是需要一部完整的重複食品專法就等待你們下個會期送進來那有相關的因為過去我們在地方市議會有很多地方政府執行也會遇到的一些情況也會再跟你們進行討論好"},{"start":15490.367,"end":15502.646,"text":"我想基本上專法要公佈還有一點時間但是我們現在用現行的動保法裡面去把寵物食品比較該注意的先放進去去修法的話還是能夠確保一些寵物食品的安全好 謝謝"},{"start":15504.435,"end":15516.703,"text":"好謝謝我們現在請王美惠委員做詢問王美惠委員不在王美惠委員不在我們現在請蘇清泉委員做詢問蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在我們現在請羅明財委員做詢問羅明財委員羅明財委員不在我們現在請陳培宇委員做詢問好謝謝主席那有請部長陳部長"},{"start":15535.575,"end":15555.433,"text":"委員好部長午安關於今天審動保法的部分其實我知道農業部在相關事情上真的已經做了非常非常多努力可是我想我們人力的不足 量能的不足其實可能還是農業部最需要積極協助的地方我們來看一下關於這個動保這個我想這個遊蕩犬的事情野生動物跟人之間的衝突的案件我就不再多說"},{"start":15556.193,"end":15583.723,"text":"那我知道目前全國超過14萬隻這件事情非常的困難那有很多老師也提醒我們相關的動物學家生態學家都認為目前熱區的管理強度不夠那我知道其實農業部真的有一直一直很努力那之前張阿玲委員跟洪珊漢委員現在勞動部長他們在相關的事情上部長也已經給了積極的承諾但我知道目前還有一些事情還沒有達成進度未明這個部分要不要讓部長來說明一下"},{"start":15585.051,"end":15611.95,"text":"我想有關於這邊所提到的有關於生態熱區的禁止餵養的部分我們現在已經在所謂的自然的保育區這個部分都已經在做了先會擦牌子先會擦牌子然後宣導以後就會開始禁止然後生態熱區的部分是在流浪犬的部分因為那時候因為太多的這些有愛心人士去飼養的時候會讓牠群聚所以我們在生態熱區我會先要求"},{"start":15613.631,"end":15637.091,"text":"它不能餵養然後你那個TNR的部分的回制的部分我們也不會回到生態熱區來確保整個生態熱區的一個支柱的一個控制大概目前是這樣子好 這樣看起來確實是有相關的進度那我們來看一下其實另外一個問題是人權衝突熱區目前我們當然有相關的訴求然後也有相關的法規範"},{"start":15637.952,"end":15657.281,"text":"可是我們現在看到的困境是說有沒有辦法設立宣導期期滿的時候再強行執法或者是挑選比較嚴重的前幾區所謂的人權衝突熱區優先執行因為它有跟林保署有關然後也有跟動保司有關那我們認為應該是要動保司來主責這個業務我不知道部長你們人權衝突的部分基本上還是動保司在主責"},{"start":15663.604,"end":15687.433,"text":"然後剛才也特別提到就是說特別是我們現在也請地方政府去提報一些可能的人權衝突的熱區那這個熱區列出來了以後第一個就是餵養的部分我們會先導然後剛才也聞提到就是說今天餵養如果造成這些被餵養的狗造成一些人權傷害的時候那餵養的人他負有責任"},{"start":15688.774,"end":15694.404,"text":"我們也希望說透過這樣的宣導讓餵養的頻度跟比例可以下降因為現在"},{"start":15695.782,"end":15714.09,"text":"在這個時間點用強制禁止餵養可能在現階段還不大容易執行而且也不大符合我們一般人的生活樣態所以我剛剛的建議是說我們因為我現在看了一下你們去年有框出一個所謂的優先補助管制熱區然後有包含生態熱區總共有204個村裡那既然生態熱區我們有加強規範那人權熱區我們認為應該要加入"},{"start":15720.433,"end":15742.568,"text":"可是我認為立刻執法的困境是有的如同部長您剛剛說的所以我在想那個宣導期我們可以怎麼去抓這個宣導期然後期滿再來執行或者是我們找出我們認為最嚴重的五個或十個先做如果是這個方向會不會讓你們在人力上或是相關的執法上不大有困難但真的有實體推進其實民眾也會有感"},{"start":15743.208,"end":15759.711,"text":"我們也非常希望說如果有意願先走的縣市我們會跟縣市討論我們可以當作幾個縣市或幾個縣市裡面的村裡先執行那有相關好的成果再去推動的話會比較快一點這個後續我想我們會跟縣市政府來挑幾個來重要的來做"},{"start":15760.011,"end":15783.334,"text":"好那我們就下一張那聽起來部長其實是有明白而且知道可以怎麼跟縣市政府溝通那我們就希望兩個月內有相關的規劃跟進度報告可以嗎好謝謝部長好我只剩一分鐘最後我想要談一談上個禮拜四月二十一在花蓮濁西所發生的黑熊射殺事件那當時林保署四月二十三號的新聞稿說黑熊雖然有列明所謂的瀕臨絕種野生動物可是數量很多說"},{"start":15784.315,"end":15807.106,"text":"已經沒有瀕臨絕種之餘啦 說近年來數量已經變多了可是其實很多生態學者老師就說林保署你要沒有確切的族群數量你不能用所謂的募集率還有活動範圍就做出這樣的宣稱很多生態學者專家告訴大家應該要更謹慎來看這件事情但是我必須還是要肯定林保署在這幾年推動所謂"},{"start":15807.606,"end":15825.531,"text":"黑熊通報生態給付這件事情的成果可是我還是要說在這一次所謂非熱區非自然保護的山區野生動物跟人類之間的接觸越來越頻繁要如何進行環境管理減少衝突和平相處這些事情我不知道農業部這邊後續會不會有更多的做法跟討論我們辦公室可以持續來追蹤"},{"start":15829.272,"end":15847.491,"text":"可以我想先說明一下就是當初講到就是有一些說已經沒有瀕臨絕種的事其實他是回應很多人是擔心他絕種是不是說想要把他瀕臨絕種降級啦是不是降級的概念所以不會有降級的問題沒有降級的問題是擔心有人擔心說"},{"start":15848.832,"end":15869.689,"text":"是不是還會瀕臨啊我們是用鼓勵的就是朝正面的角度去思考因為租金的數量有增加好聽起來這樣我們就比較放心那至於後續我們還有哪些事情可以去處理這個我剛剛提出來這些問題那因為今天時間有限我們辦公室之後會再跟農業部積極討論但也非常開心聽到部長明確說出不會有所謂降級這個問題好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝"},{"start":15874.434,"end":15876.316,"text":"我们现在请苏乔惠委员做询答"},{"start":15891.894,"end":15896.277,"text":"请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并复制本会本日议程询答完毕则其继续审查现在休息谢谢"},{"start":15922.261,"end":15922.739,"text":"by bwd6"},{"start":15953.183,"end":15953.412,"text":"by bwd6"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}