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黄建斌所提书面质询列入记录刊登公榜"},{"start":2125.971,"end":2134.715,"text":"書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關與一周內另以書面答覆並附資本會決議以上個案均另定其繼續審查條文已宣讀宣讀完畢好請問各位委員上次會議意思錄有無錯誤或遺漏好沒有了我們意思錄確定那我們現在進行繼續進行討論事項請宣讀"},{"start":2151.977,"end":2152.297,"text":"宣读完毕"},{"start":2174.929,"end":2199.134,"text":"好本日審查之法案約定本會於114年3月19日本會期第四次全體委員會會議報告及詢答結束並決議均定定期繼續審查所以我們本次會議繼續進行審查我們現在介紹在場委員及列席官員我們有劉許廷昭為丁學忠委員吳祺銘委員"},{"start":2204.269,"end":2227.263,"text":"王美惠委員黃婕委員李柏毅委員我們有內政部政務次長馬世元消防署長蕭煥章我們現在我們就先進行協商好"},{"start":2324.683,"end":2326.126,"text":"第三條你們說明一下"},{"start":2330.24,"end":2356.848,"text":"第三條委員所提案就是配合我們行政院主改把部會名稱做一個調整就第三款的含害土石流大規模崩塌森林火災跟動植物易災這個部分現在是農委會改成農業部那這個是我們機關主管我們支持這樣的一個修正那在第五款裡面就是毒性及關注化學物品災害"},{"start":2358.028,"end":2370.52,"text":"那個還有懸浮地位置的一個物質災害不是啦你們就有沒有意見就好了我們同意就支持就好你不用講那麼我們不是對啊第七環再來謝依鳳的都一樣嘛都一樣嘛好"},{"start":2381.209,"end":2393.294,"text":"那我們第三條就就大家沒有意見就照這樣好不好就照這樣修正好那再來第19條"},{"start":2403.733,"end":2422.471,"text":"跟各位委員報告就是針對所謂官員管線要不要制定專法這件事情我們是考慮到行政院在106年他已經決議違規地方自行在管理那宜蘭縣政府也即將會在做廢管所以未來只有高雄市政府會有所謂的管線官員管線那目前他們其實有訂定兩項的法案在做管理"},{"start":2423.092,"end":2447.331,"text":"那對於經濟部後續呢我們當然也會秉持的中央立法監督地方檢查監理跟業者自治管理的三種的管理模式來運作讓它順暢那實際上就經濟部來講我們也成立所謂的工業管線諮詢中心我們會跟地方政府、高雄市政府共同來好好做相關的工業管線的查核管理跟監督以上所以希望委員能夠維持不是啦對我們是建議"},{"start":2448.031,"end":2450.414,"text":"這個我們都已經詢答過了嘛你說一下"},{"start":2458.386,"end":2484.341,"text":"那我在這邊雖然那個賴文偉沒有來啦那但是其實我們兩位高雄委員還是要表達一下高雄的立場就是我們高雄雖然有自治的管自治的條例就是管這個既有的工業管線可是過去我們為什麼會想要修到中央就是因為我們這些運用的單位都是經濟部管轄的工業部的工業的廠商這些工業區的廠商其實過去都是跟經濟部對接的嘛"},{"start":2484.901,"end":2509.807,"text":"所以變成說我們在地方想要管理他們其實一直都有很大的困難包括之前過去發生所有的事情都是跟經濟部在這邊沒有辦法好好的處理然後還有我們現在一直在討論就是我們大社工業區的到底要遷村或怎麼落日這件事然後我們高雄其實也都同意啦我們也都送上來啦那可是每次擺在中央你們審了多少次沒有進度"},{"start":2511.004,"end":2529.853,"text":"就是因為這樣所以我們才想說是不是既然都是經濟部管轄的我們是不是就統一處理所以我們會覺得剛剛的這個經濟部的回答我不是很滿意甚至會覺得有一點推卸責任這個高雄的從我們高雄的立場聽起來不是很開心"},{"start":2531.213,"end":2546.089,"text":"謝謝委員指教那實際上在整個我講一下我一起講完陳黃鐵委員剛講的這一些高雄市現在有的既有公縣管理自治條例以及這些收費辦法你知道從什麼時候來的嗎"},{"start":2547.734,"end":2566.729,"text":"是七爆以後七爆以後剛剛是趕快修的那我們現在希望把這個法放進來希望不管是高雄全國各縣市有工業管線的不要是地方自治事項而是中央尤其經濟部面對這些工業管線可以有一套管理跟"},{"start":2567.89,"end":2585.521,"text":"甚至圖說等等相關的這些條例都可以納進來那你剛剛講說高雄市已經有兩個自治條例了你把這個結果放到今天的說明來了我覺得還是會希望經濟部比較負責一點的"},{"start":2587.202,"end":2609.728,"text":"把這個條例納出來那不管是圖說不管是各縣市要怎麼管理做一個母法來管理我們會希望這樣子會比較負責任一點要不然其實很多縣市長改選完之後縣市長對這個管縣有沒有概念或者是各縣市的這些組織"},{"start":2611.088,"end":2634.215,"text":"組織的有做一些改組的時候那這些管理的單位會不會不見等等的我希望中央還是有個母法可以讓縣市政府可以去有這個概念可以去制定這個請你們再考慮一下不是 蘇巧惠先舉手的啦蘇巧惠委員是是是"},{"start":2641.153,"end":2658.076,"text":"對 我們其實因為各行各業這個各行如隔山我們也是像剛剛延續博弈委員講的其實大家都會想要知道首先比如說工業管線好了現在給我們資料是只剩下高雄有那可是在未來在什麼樣的情況下其他地方也會不會有"},{"start":2658.777,"end":2674.614,"text":"就現在只有高雄有就算現在只有高雄有那未來在其他地方會不會有其實我們也不太知道那如果是在這樣的狀況下是不是其實把這個放入法了之後其實你可以訂比較通則一點的部分嗎就是說"},{"start":2675.635,"end":2703.94,"text":"你訂一個大綱規範就有點像是我們在做交通規則啊等等其實它也會有一個通則的部分至少讓大家知道說啊原來國家對這件事情的標準就是是這樣那未來地方如果因地制宜還要有更細部的等等的之類的我覺得在做地方的去規劃自治事項的規劃我覺得其實這也是一個道理所以這是當初我們支持賴瑞榮賴委員版本提出的時候我們有支持他的原因就是整件事情"},{"start":2704.6,"end":2727.553,"text":"你不一定我的想像是你不一定現在入法然後叫你我們現在是入法要求中央要提出一套規則但這套規則不一定要像現在高雄的戲成這樣也許它是一個比較通案性的狀況我們這是我們的理解啦但我們不知道實際專業上面是不是可以這樣才新所以等一下也請回答看看這樣我們請劉徐鼎召委"},{"start":2736.698,"end":2753.275,"text":"我看一下它的賴樂仁委員的提案大概就兩點第一個叫做工業管線的防救業務計畫是要交給立法院被查等於提升它的監督成績第二個就是說要有專法定制我覺得第一點就是說送立法院被查這件事情我覺得行政院應該要接受"},{"start":2753.695,"end":2777.857,"text":"因為我覺得不管怎麼樣 它不管是地域性 單獨性或怎麼樣你讓相關的業務計畫提升監督層級我想這個部分黨派大家都應該要支持啦尤其是高雄的委員 我覺得他們站在高雄發展的立場希望多了解一點狀況 以利監督 以利精進我覺得這是好事 我希望行政院這邊可以予以支持那第二段的部分 是不是一定要以專法定制然後有沒有必要寫在這個裡面 我覺得有討論空間因為即便不寫 還是可以訂專法"},{"start":2779.258,"end":2779.498,"text":"王美惠惠"},{"start":2805.12,"end":2812.183,"text":"主席 在這裡我要跟很多人說 現在要修法是可以問題修出來比較透明化不然你們都覺得這個麻煩 這個不用修 不用做了這樣就不知道大家的意見 什麼事情發生跟在那裡說要來補救什麼 要來補救什麼都不會有"},{"start":2828.689,"end":2841.717,"text":"我們現在就有這個情形看要怎麼修可以讓他們更了解各地人的更了解尤其你們看到高雄這個情形的時候你們應該是要更嚴謹想看怎麼修可以更好才對不是說我們不修這樣就覺得不知道今天這麼多人來開會以上你們回答一下"},{"start":2860.233,"end":2880.186,"text":"各位委員好 謝謝各位指教跟各位委員報告 實際上在災防法裡面它有律定22種不同的管線的管理機制就目前來講我們所看到在高雄市它所訂定的不管是既有管線它的自治條例也好或相關的管理辦法也好"},{"start":2880.606,"end":2904.333,"text":"他對於整個管線的安全維護管理檢查還有維護等等之類其實都分別都定有條例他很清楚的去界定什麼時候該去提他們的計畫什麼時候應該去做什麼樣的演練等等之類的那我們是考慮到是說以目前大概院裡面也希望是朝向中央來去做立法監督由地方來好好做整個監察的管理的部分"},{"start":2904.853,"end":2927.687,"text":"那地方那業者他當然也要肩負起所謂的自主管理我們是希望藉由這種所謂的地方中央跟業者我們三方面大家共同來做努力那當然整個現在目前整個機制如果剛剛市政府在訂定一些規範的時候我們一樣會follow整個災防法還有相關的業務計劃就是經濟部所訂的跟要求業者要提出來的我們會共同來要求"},{"start":2928.147,"end":2948.176,"text":"在怎麼樣納入這個地方方面的管理機制更嚴謹那我們是希望是說因為現在針對整個工業管線是其中整個災防法裡面22種綠定其中的一項那是不是可以尋現在目前這樣的管理機制在那我們再強化怎麼樣中央跟地方共同來做好這樣的管理跟監督謝謝委員來內政部說明一下"},{"start":2954.381,"end":2975.409,"text":"委員好 我想剛剛提到的兩個修正的兩項第一個是因為我們在澳門有22個災害如果大家回頭看我們第三條的話這22個災害我們目前都是在行政機關去審議完以後就直接公告沒有到立法院被查這個程序"},{"start":2976.309,"end":3003.012,"text":"那如果說針對工業管線災害單獨送到立法院被查的話他就會跟其他的災害的這個計畫有不一樣的做法我想這個是第一個要請我們大院考量的那第二個就是說如果工業管線需要專法的話因為這個是牽涉到在經濟部主管的這個轄下要不要去訂那訂在災防法的話因為每一個災害如果都寫在這裡的話那每一個都要訂專法"},{"start":3004.253,"end":3031.314,"text":"比如說跟各個地方我們像地政我們就沒有專法所以每一個都要訂專法的話那等於是這個災防法會變得很龐大所以內政部這邊是不是建議就是說如果這個部分我們覺得很重要事實上我們也覺得很重要那能不能夠用附帶決議的方式就是未來請經濟部去對專法的部分去做處理那災防法的話我們是原則上因為它是一個比較架構性的法律來訂定那內政部最後可以補充 謝謝"},{"start":3033.8,"end":3060.691,"text":"還有沒有委員我個人看了一下啦齁其實災防法如果把它寫的像賴委員的版本寫這樣好像不是法律的條文是說你要做什麼做什麼做什麼這樣入法好像也是我的建議是這樣啦我們做組決議然後要求經濟部或什麼的他們要去處理這個齁齁"},{"start":3063.942,"end":3067.188,"text":"我們這樣子來處理啦我不知道各位委員"},{"start":3075.948,"end":3096.119,"text":"主席我是覺得剛剛內政部和安京部這樣的說明其實也是有它的道理因為就是說確實整部的災防法從它的橫平性來看的話如果單獨把一種災害拉出來然後寫的跟別人都不太一樣確實是有它的就不平衡的狀態是沒有錯"},{"start":3102.662,"end":3122.009,"text":"那所以如果是這樣的話是不是應該是說其實主管機關都了解怎麼運作啦反而是我們平常這不是我們每天日常的狀況嘛所以是有什麼樣的方式可以讓彼此之間或者是要了解的"},{"start":3122.549,"end":3152.049,"text":"人可以更快速的进去然后也在比如说我们委员们之间要监督行政部门到底做的好不好对不对的时候那我们也有第一有脉络可循有步骤可循那第二的话就是说未来我们确实你有这个可以做的更好你现况是如何那你将来我们才有一个比较的基准所以这个附带决议也好主决议也好是不是能够把要求他们要积极去处理的"},{"start":3152.509,"end":3172.586,"text":"然後現況和未來的比較的就現況基準的這種查核的機制的那也能夠一併說明這樣子我個人是認為賴慧龍委員這個提案有他的意義在有他的那個價值在但好像就像內政部講的我們如果特別寫在這裡好像"},{"start":3173.947,"end":3197.325,"text":"未來災防法或什麼的可能越修越多啦但我覺得他這個方向是對的所以我跟你講你們現在內政部跟經濟部你們現在馬上把附帶決議趕快給我趕快寫出來那我們現在先往下走你們先趕快寫出來好不好寫出來等一下我們大家看然後再來第22條這個"},{"start":3203.754,"end":3217.398,"text":"內政部你們看法這個22條包括內政部支持那再來48條呢48條也是內政部支持那我們現在就只剩剛剛的這個19條附帶決議你們趕快寫出來"},{"start":3250.508,"end":3252.029,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":3280.227,"end":3281.788,"text":"一件事很"},{"start":3303.712,"end":3315.459,"text":"主要是今天的協商結論就結束啦20分鐘之前就結束好幾分鐘之後那什麼發言啊不是他們不講話我們沒事他們一講的時候沒有因為什麼只有高雄有的時候我們不說"},{"start":3333.347,"end":3342.437,"text":"對啊 沒有啦 只是他們講了我就覺得超不尊重的什麼叫做高雄只有高雄有所以我們不兇啊在講什麼東西啊"},{"start":3362.125,"end":3366.168,"text":"今天就這樣決定了"},{"start":3392.576,"end":3405.547,"text":"來啦咧,好,我們不再覺得緊張了請問跟黃姊姊有什麼關係?你應該要讓他站在旁邊,很久了耶現在給他來"},{"start":3417.312,"end":3432.141,"text":"他就一直在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,都在那裡等著我,"},{"start":3446.749,"end":3460.492,"text":"對啊,那些都沒有了對啊,所以你現在是走路嗎?我都走路了,我就是走地上,大概就到了我現在是走地上,我房間都在那裡房間在那裡,工作車在那裡嗯"},{"start":3496.194,"end":3503.12,"text":"各位委員他們在寫啦那我們是不是休息五分鐘大家可以自由活動好那我們休息五分鐘"},{"start":3505.422,"end":3507.303,"text":"五分鐘喔 你們有聽到喔"},{"start":3533.323,"end":3533.664,"text":"好多人"},{"start":3549.016,"end":3549.036,"text":"唉"},{"start":3576.956,"end":3578.476,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":3628.276,"end":3630.625,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":3642.807,"end":3643.428,"text":"謝謝大家"},{"start":3669.148,"end":3669.168,"text":"鞭筍"},{"start":3698.527,"end":3700.25,"text":"谢谢观看"},{"start":3709.774,"end":3725.598,"text":"我昨天在翔哥的臉書上看LMC跑出來,他叫我遇到你,然後問你說你什麼時候想吃LMC啊,對那你怎麼想吃LMC?因為那個Irene,因為Irene很喜歡LMC因為她很大口對,我聽說"},{"start":3734.387,"end":3738.03,"text":"誒,我的燈光哪裡放死了?"},{"start":3758.628,"end":3758.828,"text":"來啦 換你"},{"start":3782.538,"end":3788.64,"text":"請問隨時都可以簽嘛對不對可以啊隨時簽就好他講簽到的你要簽到他要簽到就看你要不要採券就這樣"},{"start":3810.543,"end":3816.846,"text":"我留下來陪你,我幫你代理嘛好不好不是啦,我這樣其實還蠻難受的我們先看看這個佔案,到時候再看"},{"start":3843.86,"end":3856.995,"text":"工業管線管理運作安全維護監督局在房間宣傳請內部經濟部能以積極態度針對不專法引進研議並就委員提案監督的資訊應以適度公開揭露"},{"start":3878.199,"end":3888.182,"text":"我們現在繼續開會每個委員手上有附帶決議了嗎大家看一下有沒有意見"},{"start":3889.465,"end":3901.255,"text":"好 李柏毅委員我一個小意見齁第二行請內政部經濟部以積極態度就好了不用能力 好不好謝謝好 召委"},{"start":3903.336,"end":3914.984,"text":"好 吳委員好 針對我們的工業管線那個農體育我們用附帶決議 那會OK啦因為我們照現有的我們的條文那這樣應該 我們都加強就好了好 謝謝好 就這附帶決議 各位委員有沒有意見好 都沒有 那就是把李博義委員說的 把那個能化掉"},{"start":3935.957,"end":3959.042,"text":"把能化掉好 那你們再去印一份新的給所有委員還是要打字喔不用啦 這樣就算了啦然後請各位委員大家簽個名你們要改啊你們要重印一份給委員啊"},{"start":3964.823,"end":3969.946,"text":"打字比較快 重寫不是 槓掉了槓掉了"},{"start":3983.608,"end":3985.65,"text":"你剛剛講說要再學一次,我怎麼可能"},{"start":4017.429,"end":4041.237,"text":"各位委員大家看一下他上面還有寫委員提案我們這個附帶決議就是我們所有委員大家一起做成的決定了對不對那個委員提案我覺得就不要了吧沒有 他只把立法院劃掉 委員提案不是 他剛剛也沒看到 他只劃掉立法院"},{"start":4043.252,"end":4052.676,"text":"所以委員提案他沒劃掉啦我看一下大家看一下上面"},{"start":4071.603,"end":4076.846,"text":"內政部經濟部內政部經濟部內政部經濟部內政部經濟部內政部經濟部"},{"start":4093.934,"end":4115.633,"text":"舊工業管線運作安全維護監督級災害防救等事項然後應急急急態度對不對要不要直接應急急就好了感覺贅字很多就是應急急就好了態度也不用了"},{"start":4116.263,"end":4125.088,"text":"應積極針對立專法議題應該的應應積極態度兩個字刪掉態度兩個字刪掉應積極針對立專法議題進行研議並就監督監督級資訊應這一句也要修一下監督級資訊應監督方式嗎"},{"start":4154.197,"end":4169.244,"text":"不是欸你那個我個人反而認為監督就是一個罪詞他本來就要監督啊他剛剛應該是順我的話就是說我們要怎麼去監督他們的方式啊等等啦要改掉也沒有關係啦我覺得應該並就"},{"start":4172.572,"end":4194.668,"text":"並就監管資訊不用寫並就相關資訊一語四度公開揭露就好了這樣不最簡單相關資...我覺得監管資訊怎麼樣就監管資訊怎麼樣我個人會覺得是不是監管資訊比較符合我們這次要強調的狀態"},{"start":4200.765,"end":4226.828,"text":"就相關監管資訊應適度公開結錄就好啦那個語也不用吧那不好意思喔那因為我們剛剛那個主持是內政部經濟部嘛然後他要做的事情是應積極針對立法進行研議嘛所以那個後面確實是第二項所以應該是逗點之後研議逗點之後其實真的是應該加個BIM吧"},{"start":4228.981,"end":4229.782,"text":"那適度公開 適度是什麼意思"},{"start":4236.259,"end":4258.401,"text":"現在大家在討論啊我覺得不用適度吧 就公開吧現在大家在討論啊我覺得適度好像有一點就不曉得什麼叫適度嘛本來就在公開嘛並就相關監管資訊應公開揭露這樣是不是會比較好因為適度好像是很模糊的一個形容詞啊"},{"start":4263.392,"end":4271.48,"text":"郭文貴總統,公共關係的諮詢要去揭露,我們擔心有些事常常發生,我們擔心,所以我們想做什麼都要有適度我知道主管習慣了"},{"start":4292.073,"end":4296.074,"text":"所以你們一定要監管對 我一定會監管 你的意思是要改善現在這裡就是相關監管"},{"start":4318.069,"end":4320.011,"text":"可是如果我們寫這樣他沒有試過他就全部要分開"},{"start":4339.107,"end":4349.69,"text":"那種東西不是在我們之前都說是密件的嗎?"},{"start":4360.299,"end":4369.226,"text":"就相關監管的意思就是他們的一定要公開不要因此"},{"start":4381.156,"end":4383.297,"text":"病舊跟...我覺得病舊兩個是對的"},{"start":4408.643,"end":4409.023,"text":"好 這樣子還沒有委員"},{"start":4433.078,"end":4437.361,"text":"如果沒在思考30秒沒有就請他們印出來囉好那印出來好了"},{"start":4445.435,"end":4447.716,"text":"沒關係 可以啊 那就是他要宣讀啊"},{"start":4472.92,"end":4481.185,"text":"對一下啦 這個不能做啊來 你要抓我而已"},{"start":4503.253,"end":4510.099,"text":"要這樣結商結賬也不用簽名嗎?因為沒有修正同意"},{"start":4525.311,"end":4526.752,"text":"哎唷 各位啊 各位"},{"start":4552.546,"end":4566.591,"text":"你們把我們地方搞得 齁 真是一堆我們賴總統又下令了可以簽嗎可以簽可以簽在那邊 要傳回來所以我 我想說今天這個我就晚一點報好 來 謝謝謝謝"},{"start":4608.572,"end":4609.413,"text":"好那我們請宣讀協商結論"},{"start":4612.56,"end":4635.708,"text":"在案防修法部份條文修正草案請行結論第三條依委員賴瑞榮等及委員謝一鳳等提案通過第十九條不予採納維持現行條文第二十二條依委員丁學忠等提案通過第四十八條依委員謝一鳳等提案通過通過附帶決議項宣讀完畢"},{"start":4639.639,"end":4664.411,"text":"好請問各位委員就剛才的協商結論通過請問有無異議沒有好沒有異議通過那我們做以下決議討論事項災害防救法第三條及第十九條條文修正草案等四案以並案審查完略拟據審查報告提報院會討論請問在場委員需不需要協商"},{"start":4668.51,"end":4686.686,"text":"不用啦齁好不需協商那本案與運會討論時由本席張昭紀委員洪祿做補充說明審查通過之條文相關法制用於授權主席及議事人員整理好那本次會議到此結束現在上會謝謝"},{"start":4691.429,"end":4693.21,"text":"謝謝 主席主持人辛苦了"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}