{"error":false,"id":["166355"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166355,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166355","日期":"2025-12-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-22-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-11T10:31:53+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-11T10:42:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:09","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/83ea75f4c686a7b173000fdbf988f633b5fe7457644078f046f29551fe3ea0e5ec4005c00d4bcaf05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張雅琳","委員發言時間":"10:31:53 - 10:42:02","會議時間":"2025-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【12月10日及11日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.11034375,"end":6.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.050968750000001,"end":7.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.41784375,"end":9.700343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.52596875,"end":20.297843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.820968750000002,"end":46.791593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.80409375,"end":51.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.837218750000005,"end":62.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.04221875,"end":65.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.40471875,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.64471875000001,"end":75.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.24284375,"end":75.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.86721875,"end":78.16221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.95534375000001,"end":98.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.44596875,"end":116.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.66034375000001,"end":103.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.98096875,"end":104.04846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.64971875,"end":131.26784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.33534375000002,"end":131.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.45346875,"end":132.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.21284375000002,"end":142.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.65846875,"end":145.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":145.71284375000002,"end":151.16346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.36596875,"end":151.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.38284375,"end":151.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.46721875,"end":151.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.20971875,"end":154.40346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.50471875000002,"end":154.94346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":155.29784375,"end":163.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.90909375,"end":159.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.92096875000001,"end":166.01346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.74346875,"end":183.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.31284375,"end":168.02159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.22284375,"end":176.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.23971875,"end":176.62784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.62784375,"end":176.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.32284375,"end":192.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.58409375000002,"end":186.97221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.41034375,"end":196.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.82721875000001,"end":205.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.16846875000002,"end":200.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.17596875,"end":229.64909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.44221875000002,"end":236.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.47909375,"end":240.70221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.46159375000002,"end":243.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.56659375,"end":259.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":259.36596875000004,"end":263.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.04034375000003,"end":268.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":268.37721875,"end":272.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.23721875,"end":283.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.64909375,"end":303.13971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.61221875,"end":321.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.55034375,"end":321.98909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.68096875000003,"end":337.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.25221875,"end":349.17471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.64721875000004,"end":358.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.72159375,"end":361.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":361.86471875,"end":365.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.23534375,"end":370.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.63971875000004,"end":372.78284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.91784375000003,"end":384.03846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.42659375000005,"end":385.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.74284375,"end":387.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.93659375000004,"end":390.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.82221875000005,"end":397.84221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":399.15846875000005,"end":403.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":404.11971875,"end":423.12096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.40784375000004,"end":432.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":432.50346875,"end":442.10534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":442.15596875000006,"end":452.46659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.22596875000005,"end":454.64346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.87971875000005,"end":466.89471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.23221875,"end":469.61159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.80971875000006,"end":476.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.96909375,"end":482.62221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.07784375000006,"end":485.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":485.64284375000005,"end":486.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.46971875,"end":493.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":494.31659375000004,"end":508.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.76159375000003,"end":514.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":515.78159375,"end":516.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.8447187500001,"end":517.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":517.6884687500001,"end":524.4384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":525.0459687499999,"end":528.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":528.20159375,"end":528.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":529.02846875,"end":529.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.14659375,"end":540.5034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.5547187500001,"end":536.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":536.79096875,"end":536.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.9428437500001,"end":537.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.80721875,"end":543.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.60409375,"end":557.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.2097187500001,"end":566.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.6765937499999,"end":572.61659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":572.8022187500001,"end":574.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.04659375,"end":580.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.4297187500001,"end":586.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":588.1584687500001,"end":589.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":591.75284375,"end":591.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":592.9340937500001,"end":596.1740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":596.12346875,"end":602.13096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.0803437500001,"end":602.1140937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":602.13096875,"end":603.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":603.6328437500001,"end":603.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":604.0378437500001,"end":604.4428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.56096875,"end":605.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":605.84346875,"end":606.1472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":608.5434687500001,"end":610.28159375}],"whisperx":[{"start":5.134,"end":9.517,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們邀請我們 主委好 請陳竺文"},{"start":18.544,"end":46.322,"text":"好 主委我想今天11月前幾天11月28號的時候經濟部核定了三座核電廠的現況評估報告認定核二跟核三有再運轉的可行性台電也隨即表示將會進行自主的安全檢查並在2023年3月會先提出一個再運轉計畫並且在2027年將自主安檢報告會送到核安會來審查我想"},{"start":48.344,"end":61.706,"text":"接下來這個核安會的角色到底是什麼就變得非常重要我們現在是我想要請主委回答我們核安會是被動的收建單位還是我們是核能安全的把關者"},{"start":68.759,"end":77.79,"text":"所以我们会非常想站在专业上面去做安全的实质审查对吗是的那我想就是说"},{"start":79.511,"end":97.722,"text":"當社會聽到這個聚在運轉可行性的時候呢就會認為你們好像已經在背書了我認為這個對你們的獨立性跟專業性會有非常大的考驗所以我希望你們還是能夠秉持著專業來去做實質的審查因為所有人都生長在這一片土地上面"},{"start":98.522,"end":113.489,"text":"好之前我們都一直不停的強調三個共識三個共識還是最重要的原則那接下來呢我也想要跟主委再請教就是根據核管法第16條之一我們確實是允許經營者先停出再運轉計畫再分階段來補齊第16條"},{"start":117.791,"end":144.85,"text":"所要求的一些重要文件包含整體的老化評估啊 耐震安全評估中期安全分析等等的但是我們也看到經濟部呢已經有提到說他們希望可以在2028年能夠進行再運轉那我想請教一下主委 根據您的經驗我們從專業的角度來看還有從國際的審查實務來看我們能夠保證在三年之內完成這件事情嗎核安會可以完成審查嗎 然後再運轉"},{"start":145.731,"end":162.861,"text":"河岸會一定依法根據國際的標準進行嚴格審查該做的項目很多時針上我們沒有辦法給個確定的日期多快可以審查完畢一切要依照依法實行"},{"start":163.991,"end":183.45,"text":"必要的安全检查所以我们依法行政嘛对不对依法执行嘛不会有一个确切的时间表嘛还是要回到就是国际的一个同财单位以及透过国际的专业审查来进行所有的实诚那是不是可以请教主委国际的专业审查的时程它们大概多久的时间呢"},{"start":185.564,"end":203.971,"text":"這也是不一定長短有的比較快有的會審查蠻長的對在我看到我今天收集到的資訊像法國就是像如主委說的差異時間非常的大法國甚至到了20年所以我想大家還是專業性在於安全的問題那"},{"start":206.232,"end":229.415,"text":"在11月的時候監察院其實也提出了一份報告就已經把問題講得非常清楚就是海淀在104年的時候就已經去做他們現在就依照了美國的SHAC Level 3的標準替三座核電廠做過機率式的地震危害分析結果發現我不曉得主委知道這份報告就是說三座核電廠實際可以承受的地震程度"},{"start":230.496,"end":258.688,"text":"比当年都已经超过当年建厂时的设计值也就是说其实我们的耐震力需要很大的一个调整因为这是有一个很大的疑虑那在114年核关法修法的时候呢我也要再澄清一个重点就是核电厂的运转执照其实都已经到齐了没有什么延续只有再运转所以我们所有的执行都必须依法重新来过依照这个SSHEC Level 3的分析结果把整电"},{"start":259.508,"end":272.558,"text":"整個核電廠的耐震 安全 色化老輩的問題重新評估之後才能夠重新申請再運轉執照我這樣子說對嗎 這個流程是這樣子嗎對 地震絕對是我們要檢驗的最重要的項目之一"},{"start":273.285,"end":302.785,"text":"好那接下來我也要來談核廢料的部分就是說我們現在呢其實不管怎麼講就是我們還沒有我們一直都有一個最關鍵的問題沒有處理就是像我們這個低放射性廢棄物選址條例從2006年立法之經將近20年我們都選不出一個最終處置場址那核二廠其實自己現在都是卡關的狀態因為乾式儲存設施沒有完工反映爐內的一個這個燃料棒還沒有退出來"},{"start":303.685,"end":321.681,"text":"就代表說我們到現在實務上根本無法執行那至於高放射性的廢棄物在經濟部6月的時候就已經公開他們會去提出高放選址的條例草案可是現在到12月了我們還是沒有看到任何的版本那"},{"start":322.742,"end":336.94,"text":"我想我們還是要非常坦白的去講過去國民黨在面對核廢料的問題其實都沒有真正來面對一直都沒有面對他們都一直停留在未來可以用乾式儲存先存40年再說"},{"start":339.281,"end":358.694,"text":"一直都沒有去面對最核心的一個核廢料處理的問題好那我這邊也覺得非常荒謬的是說我們今天還要協商青年基本法那其實在整個青年基本法討論的過程之中呢或者是我之前召開相關的環境的一個座談會的時候都會有年輕的朋友甚至兒少告訴我"},{"start":359.775,"end":383.61,"text":"我們現在所做的決定基本上承擔後果的都是他們因為在存40年之後在座的很多人可能都已經離開這個世界了可是我們的孩子就是要承受這一切後果的所以我就覺得非常的諷刺一邊說要尊重傾聽青年的聲音一邊要挺青年但是一邊我們做了這樣子的決議卻完全沒有去"},{"start":384.491,"end":402.452,"text":"考慮到下一代要承受什麼樣子的後果就只有把問題丟給下一代所以最後我也是想要再跟主委討論一下就是我們關於社會共識的部分核管法的第六條跟第五條其實都有去講到說我們的環評法"},{"start":404.878,"end":431.409,"text":"都有講到說我們需要保障我們的公眾安全而且要確保環境保護與生態保育那我想這個觀念其實一直在更新也一直在改變那環境部其實之前有說環評法需要修法彭啟明部長也在11月30號指出可以先進行政策性的環評但是實務上政策性環評只有遵循性質沒有任何的實質的否決權根本無法回應社會對於核電的一個疑慮"},{"start":432.609,"end":452.227,"text":"那過去呢 核安會也曾經在相關的報導說會是否要進行做環評呢 要由環境部來認定可是我認為作為核能安全的主管機關核安會有責任在相關的執法中清楚規範申請在運作時要具備哪些安全的 哪些文件"},{"start":453.328,"end":475.846,"text":"所以我想要請教主委在核電廠申請再運轉的制度上是否我們可以明確的去規範申請人必須檢部環評的相關資料我們可不可以把這樣子的一個要求納入執法裡面我們執法裡面也有包括輻射方面的安全評估"},{"start":477.085,"end":492.566,"text":"在河岸會的職責是對於輻射對環境的影響評估評估要負完全的責任至於其他方面的議題我們會和環境部來共同協商討論"},{"start":494.7,"end":512.47,"text":"我想其實大家一直在講環評就像剛剛講的環境部已經表示環評法需要修法他可以先做政策性的環評這部分環境部已經沒有問題了現在是說現在問題是在於要做環評這個是你們說這要由環境部來認定可是我認為這應該是你們要來認定的"},{"start":516.031,"end":543.587,"text":"問題在這裡我們核安會職責是針對那個輻射安全做環境影響評估這方面是核安會要負全部的責任但是問題是我們還有講到你們的第六條也有講到公眾安全還有這個環境保護跟生態保育等等的你們自己有提到我們現在是希望把這些東西也納入在環評裡面那這個是不是可以寫在執法裡面呢主委您的態度是"},{"start":545.642,"end":564.569,"text":"我跟委員說報告那核管法第五條是明確寫說要合於相關法令這部分那主管機關是回到環境部那核安會已經針對會裡面的主管事項就是輻射相關的議題包括對環境對工作人員的一些輻射的相關議題都已經納入到執法裡面"},{"start":566.75,"end":588.828,"text":"所以这部分河岸会已经按照自己的职责来处理那刚才那个主委也有提到针对非辐射部分的环境保护这部分可能会里面还会再跟环境部进行讨论那好因为我时间已经到了那我想就再给我一个时间你们大概会讨论多久我们可以来追踪过去的进度你们跟环境部"},{"start":593.007,"end":604.171,"text":"我們要跟環境部討論要再向委員報告好不好我想我需要一個時程表可不可以之後一個禮拜之後給我一個你們規劃的時程好嗎給我兩個星期好不好兩個星期好 謝謝好 謝謝張雅玲委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}