{"error":false,"id":["166358"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166358,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166358","日期":"2025-12-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-36-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-11T10:46:39+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-11T10:57:20+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/83ea75f4c686a7b1b6fcf56dbb9013d6feb4e86bf6119d126cb862312e5c4d1f9af2e74e98a9ffb35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳秀寳","委員發言時間":"10:46:39 - 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先請教您陳怡貞委員提案的立法院組織法第32條、第33條、第35條條文修正草案將公費助理的公費兩次刪除也刪除聘用助理人數上下限的限定又將立委助理費及辦公事務預算等等直接撥以在立委的統籌運用而且免檢據核銷"},{"start":50.528,"end":69.437,"text":"秘書長您是法律系的兼任助理教授我想請教您這是進步的修法嗎當然剛才有委員問了你好像也不太好意思回答那沒關係我也不為難你但我想知道您覺得這樣子的修法是能夠保障是能夠保障國會助理工作的權益嗎"},{"start":70.397,"end":98.639,"text":"這樣的修法我們的修法之後我們的助理還能適用勞動基準法嗎那免卷據核銷可以確保我們助理領到的是他應得的薪資嗎您覺得謝謝委員我想立法院及院長都非常重視我們助理的權益行政幕僚人員本於行政中立原則也不適合也不能夠評估任何委員的提案來沒關係來我請教一下那個李專委"},{"start":99.62,"end":116.019,"text":"公費助理適用勞基法但是如果未來改為委員自聘助理也且不用提供助理名冊那這樣的助理還能適用勞基法嗎助理會變成是民法的雇傭契約嗎他的薪資勞保勞退的這個權益還能受到保障嗎"},{"start":120.273,"end":142.826,"text":"在勞基法裡面它其實就是看有沒有成立雇傭關係那當然勞基法不會去處理要不要提供助理名冊的這件事情我們其實就是看實際上有沒有聘僱那如果有成立聘僱關係的話在勞基法上所有的權利助理們應該要得到的權利還有勞基法規定的事項其實都要符合"},{"start":143.186,"end":163.055,"text":"好 謝謝專委喔那我在這邊還是要做一個澄清啦這一次呢助理要求撤回法案的這個連署有媒體報導是有派系是由政國會發起的這不是事實我在這邊真的要特別的澄清避免以訛傳訛雖然發起是我的助理我到昨天下午才知道他們不敢讓我知道怕我有壓力也怕我反對"},{"start":163.635,"end":178.848,"text":"但我知道之後我鼓勵他們支持他們要自主決定我也跟他說你要跟你們的助理夥伴們你們一起站出來因為這是你們的權益如果你們自己都不發聲我該怎麼替你們做我該為你們做什麼但是我有嚴格的要求"},{"start":179.528,"end":195.971,"text":"就是連署的助理的個資不能外洩絕對不行所以他們後來給出來資料是有做模糊處理的那我想請問副秘書長如果連署的助理有遭到秋後算賬明年不被續聘那立法院能不能保障他們的權益"},{"start":198.097,"end":212.706,"text":"我想這是一個假設性的問題啊不適合在這個地方做因為當然我們也知道說媒體有報導有那個來簽了之後又被迫撤簽的那也有辦公室是阻止他們的助理來簽的這樣的狀況其實你都一直說你們行政中立不好說"},{"start":214.247,"end":241.819,"text":"而本席認為如果嚴重的強害國家助理的國會助理的正當權益的法案一旦立法完成這麼多年好不容易爭取來的國會助理的相關的制度這些福利這些保障包括他們的職位尊嚴都會被破壞未來我們的立法權能夠有效監督行政制衡行政的這個能力也會受到波及最後影響的就是人民的權利"},{"start":244.332,"end":260.556,"text":"另外我這邊要提一下過去福建金門地檢署曾經發函來立法院要求回復立法院編列之公費助理費是否得由委員統籌支付之用那當時的立法院秘書長以台立"},{"start":261.276,"end":290.236,"text":"願人字第097003623號回覆本院委員公會助理由委員自行聘任其雇主為委員本院警隊其應聘人數及酬金總額是否有合法定人數及性額內作審核其餘事項非本院所問表示他們不同意可以由委員統籌之用那麼請問副秘書長現在您的立場是改變的嗎是支持由委員統籌之用嗎"},{"start":291.482,"end":320.272,"text":"我想當時的這個發函是人事處在主辦可不可以請人事處來做回應所以你們不反對我們沒有辦法做這個部分的一個回應那草案的說明也提到說免提供助理名冊表示助理是變成由公家助理變成私人助理那我想請問副秘書長怎麼樣確定這個誰是助理無法確定誰是助理的時候那怎麼來管制他們進出立法院的安全維護工作你要怎麼做要怎麼管制"},{"start":323.953,"end":329.983,"text":"其實我也在法治局待過所以說法治局的同仁沒有就任何委員的提案做過評估"},{"start":332.162,"end":351.053,"text":"我知道你們現在就是你就是來這邊你覺得說委員問了什麼你就用你們很公式化的很官方的這樣說法來回答但是整個影響整個立法院的運作現在全部的助理都非常的焦慮包括我知道有藍營辦公室的助理們就覺得"},{"start":352.094,"end":366.925,"text":"他們很想簽不能簽因為他的老闆說不能簽他們覺得非常非常的為難他們想要站出來捍衛自己的權益可是他們不能做整個立法院為了這個事情整個沸沸揚揚你今天跟我說我們不好說這個我們不能說這個我們不能決定這個我們不能做"},{"start":370.12,"end":397.245,"text":"好 韓院長前天有發聲明指出立法院尊重每一頁委員的提案權身為立法院院長會全力捍衛國會助理的權益並且告訴每一個黨團任何修法都不該侵害國會助理工作權益包括工作權 待遇 福利以及各項法定的必要保障那我想請問副秘書長您覺得院長這樣的聲明是不是他也覺得陳昀臻委員的提案這個已經侵害到國會助理的工作權益"},{"start":399.436,"end":417.904,"text":"這個部分我想我無權發表個人的評論那立法院是一個合一致那我想請問你喔那院長有說呢他會告訴每一個黨團任何一個修法都不應該侵害這個國會助理的工作權益那麼已經有告訴每一個黨團了嗎或是有指派秘書長或是您副秘書長去告訴每一個黨團了嗎就我的部分是沒有那至於其他部分我不清楚所以都沒有嗎"},{"start":425.293,"end":448.16,"text":"那既然院長已經發了這樣的聲明是不是請副秘書長您轉告秘書長也轉告韓院長提醒他他已經發了這樣的聲明了請趕快去親自告訴每個黨團並且溝通不要等木已成舟了就拉不回來了我們已經立院的助理委員助理是我們最親密的我們作戰的夥伴"},{"start":448.976,"end":469.256,"text":"有一些助理的年資比我們都還要資深他們進來立法院這麼久對整個的議事運作對整個的質詢對整個的議事的這個規則他們都比我們還要清楚所以我進到立法院來我非常尊重我的助理他們很多事情比我們都還要了解他們經過這麼多年的努力"},{"start":471.115,"end":490.48,"text":"才建立了這樣的制度才有這樣的保障才有這樣的福利雖然不是滿分我覺得大概有80分但現在你要把它打回去連及格的邊緣都沒有我覺得對助理真的是非常的不公平那好吧我的時間也到了我可以借一點時間嗎我想要問主計處主計總處的陳副主計長"},{"start":500.286,"end":503.368,"text":"請問副主席長如果陳一貞委員這個法案通過之後統籌運用這個預算要用什麼科目來編列對就是說這個就是一個重點就是說如果我們現在界定的就是說是一個就是助理的薪資的概念跟未來"},{"start":522.985,"end":548.179,"text":"把它界定成是一個補助立委的概念它的本質就會產生改變所以如果是補助的概念的話那它到底是用在人事費還是其他的業務費它產生了自主的空間那如果沒有相關的配套的話是不是真的會未來會用在這個公費的助理上就會產生一個模糊的空間"},{"start":549.079,"end":576.369,"text":"所以對於未來是不是真的就是說它本質如果是一個補助的概念以後就必須要看未來立法院在執行這個補助的時候它的配套的要求所以以主計總處來講現在的公費助理的這個費用呢是編列在第三款立法院主管第一項立法院第二幕委員問政業務第二節公費助理"},{"start":576.869,"end":602.302,"text":"是編在這裡就是目前非常明確是一個人是非的概念那未來如果是統籌運用的那未來如果是補助的概念它的本質就會產生改變而且助理的人數沒有上下限的規定會不會有人超高薪有人領低薪然後免減拒核銷我們真的沒有辦法確保我們的助理是能夠拿到他應得的這個酬金享有他該有的福利跟權益是不是"},{"start":602.862,"end":620.458,"text":"等於說這個法的未接我們就沒有辦法看出來它相關的控管的機制就必須假設法的未接不明確那未來的配套怎麼樣去處理這個公費助理薪資的部分就有待就是說立法院未來再配套必須去強化"},{"start":621.659,"end":625.522,"text":"謝謝副主席長我還是要再告訴一下副秘書長回去一定要轉達秘書長再轉達韓院長請好好跟每個黨團告知我們不可以損害侵害到國會助理的權益以上 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝陳秀寶委員好 謝謝這個比較可惜"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}