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那我們一切都是依法雖然我認為上次這個衝衝修法那針對所謂叫做什麼叫做重啟什麼叫做再運轉講得不清不楚並沒有強化安全因為這個法很多都是舊的那但是呢依照現在的法規如果台電送出再運轉計畫河安會必須審查以下六項文件沒錯嗎主委 這個六項文件沒錯吧"},{"start":94.289,"end":102.761,"text":"沒有錯那這個第六個其他經主管機關指定的文件目前你們有指定什麼文件嗎第六項"},{"start":105.137,"end":133.538,"text":"前面就是老化等等當然監委已經告訴大家就是監委的報告談到跟地震相關的安全評估也請參考第六項其他經主管機關指定的文件你們決定了沒有跟委員說明前面我們是參考美國的換照的申請必須要提出來的文件另外我們也考量國內的管制的重點包括輻射相關議題跟耐震這部分"},{"start":134.238,"end":162.387,"text":"那這個第六項是什麼內容我今天有詳細的想要跟你們討論確定您剛剛講是依照就是美國的標準如果是依照2024年美國政府問責署那他的美國核能管理委員會有提到要充分考慮氣候變遷的潛在影響高溫乾旱野火等等這個部分那台灣這是講的是一般性對不對台灣的部分"},{"start":163.948,"end":181.725,"text":"2013年歐盟的河岸管制組織來台同行審查的時候就有提到關鍵風險應該要全面更新自然災害的評估特別是地震海嘯他們認為台灣的地震海嘯"},{"start":182.426,"end":200.45,"text":"的風險而且是複合式的非常的高特別是河山所在地斷層要更精細的研究那低震度後也要檢查建議我們重新評估斷層與地震的危害所以根據這個部分這個報告那個主委有看過嗎這個歐盟的河岸管制組織來台灣的時候給的建議不知道主委有沒有看過"},{"start":210.359,"end":238.642,"text":"我自己是没有看过那请主委再去看一下因为美国的这个部分是指一个一般性的那欧盟的这个核安管制组织给我们是针对台湾现在做的当时做的所以呢根据那个内容我这次为了就是质询特别再看了一次专家十年前就建议有三项重点要纳入第一个极端天然灾害地震海啸水灾台风第二个"},{"start":239.462,"end":267.979,"text":"喪失安全系統因為外部因素導致喪失電力的處理方式第三個嚴重事故的處理核災發生的時候你有可能道路斷裂或者是地震專業人員無法及時抵達的處理機制何恩惠是不是可以把你們剛剛的有一個依法的其他經主管機關指定的文件把這三項也納入請他們提供然後你們再專業審查可以嗎"},{"start":269.666,"end":295.266,"text":"跟委员说明那有关于当时候欧盟专家所提的意见那核安会已经整理核管案件那也持续在办理那针对耐震的这一部分那我们也特别关注就是把它纳进来也就是说要求台电公司机组如果要继续运转的时候要针对地震的可能危害那以及包括相关的安全防务都要纳入整体的评估来确保整个机组"},{"start":297.326,"end":314.431,"text":"我知道光地震这一项监察委员的报告今年11月田秋景等赵永青蔡崇义三位监委的报告就讲到地震的风险刚刚张亚林委员也有提到就是说耐震非常的不足所以这些东西都必须要提供"},{"start":316.192,"end":343.209,"text":"那这部分所涉及的可能的危害包括地震海啸这部分都有纳进来都有纳进来所以都会请他们依照这三项都会纳入审查没错吧这个有关于是电力的那个你讲的一些语言因为我们不是专业未必懂这三项欧洲专家十年前就建议的这三项重点这一次都会请他们提供然后纳入审核吧你只要说会还是不会"},{"start":343.869,"end":368.115,"text":"都有納入相關說明在會後給我報告好嗎這是關於審查的部分我們再次確定核安零風險今天我們還沒有機會講的重啟三條件核廢有解方核安零風險第三個社會有共識依照你們的專業理解核廢現在有解方嗎有或沒有"},{"start":373.483,"end":387.278,"text":"主委有或没有现在何非因为这个议题会一直持续进行中对现在连高阶的联法都还没出来目前有些国家处理方式很多人还认为不是最理想"},{"start":388.502,"end":403.197,"text":"有或没有解放台湾我们不能够送给其他的国家处理台湾有没有解放台湾现在选举条例都还没有对嘛连条例都没出来高阶的专法都没出来所以到目前为止没有解放好"},{"start":404.218,"end":428.552,"text":"那再來我想要提一下危機來臨的時候核安風險那個主委您知道這個車諾比核電廠雖然就是他本身已經大家知道車諾比事件之後都已經停下來了那可是還是被無人機攻擊所以他的防護罩被損壞失去了主要的安全功能那烏克蘭"},{"start":429.772,"end":447.265,"text":"剛剛也都有委員講到扎波羅熱核電廠是歐洲最大的核電廠不斷的遇到就是斷電的問題而且它也沒有辦法成為備電的這個暫時的備電電源這個部分就是主委都知道吧對"},{"start":449.397,"end":475.625,"text":"但是我针对这个议题跟核安会请教过核安会给我的报告不知道为什么你们的报告内容完全认为不会有任何的风险然后详细列了第一个你们认为我们的核电厂在战争的时候据说不会成为攻击的目标针对战争风险的准备列了11点都是场内的应变只有在第10点提到"},{"start":476.405,"end":502.317,"text":"由核子事故中央災害應變中心統籌國家救援能量協助 結合全民防衛動員體系請問你們真的有跟全民防衛動員體系一起討論嗎這本裡面我翻了半天完全沒有如果發生烏克蘭的情況或者是像車諾堡的這部分到底附近的居民該怎麼處理"},{"start":505.263,"end":524.29,"text":"今天不管是停役或是重啟都有同样的风险为什么里面都没有核灾发生的时候该怎么处理报告委员在小局说的第12页有针对核子事故的一个应变第12页我现在看了是我看不懂吗第12页的下方"},{"start":525.143,"end":550.345,"text":"下方只有三行停電立即進入室內關閉門窗打開電視機政府會在適當時機發佈民眾配合措施如舒散服用點片等因為這個是第一階段最緊急的時候要請民眾進到室內去作業所以我們恆春人或新北人台北人只值得這三行字"},{"start":552.662,"end":572.596,"text":"那如果他在外面被輻射塵沾到了回家之後應該怎麼樣現在你可以告訴我報告委員如果外面有輻射塵我們也是請民眾趕快進到室內去做掩蔽那因為輻射塵就是要洗手洗臉把它清掉之後那這裡面有告訴大家要洗手洗臉嗎"},{"start":573.616,"end":588.688,"text":"因為小局書的部分是針對比較全民的我們另外還有核子事故的應變指南好 那應變指南你有發給就是所有在風險區的民眾像小局書一人一本嗎有的有的是"},{"start":589.429,"end":605.127,"text":"那我的老家在新北淡水我們並沒有拿到像這樣的一個小局書啊請問那我想告訴大家的就是說請參考一下月前式以下我們有月前式的就是房子核災和指南"},{"start":605.788,"end":624.605,"text":"那他有講到的非常清楚我們剛剛所講的穩定性點片是怎麼使用可以事前就使用然後如果是核災的時候你去相關的避難地點的時候必須像這樣穿雨衣要戴口罩手也要戴手套腳不能穿涼鞋"},{"start":625.245,"end":638.648,"text":"如果是在室內外面回來的時候衣服要脫掉相關的衣服要把它放在袋子裡頭進行隔離等等連氣窗都要關起來這些大家都知道嗎"},{"start":640.349,"end":662.375,"text":"这本里面都没有因为依照乌克兰的经验它是有可能复合式发生的我们不希望发生但是有准备是最好的是不是针对这个部分你们要怎么样能够不管是日本月前市的水准或者是小局书的补充是不是能够给本席一个报告因为周伟晶站起来了"},{"start":663.41,"end":683.068,"text":"好不好 可以參照辦理嗎在我們的核子事故應變指南其實都有相關的內容請把你們發放的範圍內容就是因為我在新北的居民家裡至少沒有看到小橘樹現在都還沒有發普遍我在台北市的家中也還沒收到所以"},{"start":683.768,"end":712.157,"text":"這個有沒有發放跟有沒有針對每個居民潛在風險區的都人手一本是很大的差距好不好可以把你們發放的範圍跟內容跟本席然後這本裡面是不是可以如果有改版的機會不要只有三行字所有在合一合二合三場合四附近的居民都值得一個更嚴肅的對待有準備最安全好嗎"},{"start":713.578,"end":716.001,"text":"好 給本席一個報告 多久之內可以給我兩星期可不可以兩星期你們準備得出來 好 兩星期喔謝謝召委 謝謝主委好 謝謝范雲委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}