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那請部長看一下這張圖那我這樣問的理由是因為全國每天除以產生是2115噸是加戶的593噸加上養豬外的其他利用除以791再加上事業731噸但是2026年底 明年底"},{"start":63.3,"end":75.092,"text":"這個環境部的總設施量才有1720噸也就是說在過一整年之後才可能達到2119噸那麼是否這個2027年累積的所有的這個廚餘還有多的395噸廚餘就必須靠焚化跟掩埋了"},{"start":81.758,"end":94.602,"text":"那但是現在這個政府這個部分這個焚化跟掩埋還是量能不足你現在的數字是284那我估計每天還多了這個100萬噸100噸對不起100噸那你要怎麼處理呢能夠繼續燒嗎有辦法繼續燒嗎好 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有幾個縣市它的廚餘的代溶性的量比平均值還要低很多"},{"start":243.551,"end":249.06,"text":"我在剛剛你聽你說你覺得用電網就可以全面阻擋這個可能這個也是動物去翻動那個掩埋場的這個部分嗎對目前這個是農業部的那個動保處這個方法看有效嗎他們這個是他們給我們一些建議避免野豬能夠去翻動"},{"start":258.815,"end":265.381,"text":"不等11月豬隻禁運禁載嘛那農業部有說會擴大這個積壓額的供應量但事實上屠宰量受影響為什麼因為過去來當廚餘養豬的動物性肺渣下腳料也就是雞爪等等因為沒有辦法拿去餵豬了所以影響屠宰量那目前也有報導指出未來禁止這個全面這個廚餘養豬的積壓額等這些禽類的這個下腳料要額外有清運處理的話"},{"start":287.239,"end":288.861,"text":"每隻雞至少會漲價10塊錢以上請問農業部就你有跟農業部討論過這件事嗎你可以避免嗎因為物價膨脹大家都有感染那你要繼續讓這些這個雞鴨額等繼續漲價嗎"},{"start":300.106,"end":310.612,"text":"包委員 這個的處理它的去化是農業部他們有一個化製廠在處理不是我們這邊來最後的處理你們要關心就是說因為要處理然後就是變成說你這個費用是上漲的部長請你繼續看這張圖片12月5號環境部的記者會上把家戶處理就是小吃攤 公寓 大樓等處理歸類為不可養豬 這個OK那現在遇到的問題是環境部在簡報上規範分流"},{"start":328.243,"end":350.084,"text":"竟然是讓公寓大樓的廚藝是交由已清業者來處理那麼請問原本跟公寓大樓簽約的那個秉清業者呢只要是合法清除業就是可以部長現在的問題就是說你禁止這個養豬之後那我現在告訴你秉清業者他成本增加很多為什麼因為他現在跟簽約的價格他沒有辦法他會賠錢而且他需要排隊進場"},{"start":352.566,"end":373.103,"text":"他排隊等一下我跟你講排隊三四小時他如果進不了場他還必須找個地方暫時堆置所以他們就跟這個社區大樓說他們沒有辦法去做了因為你的報告就寫你看你這張圖公寓大樓是要已清啊所以他們就把這個當個藉口他們不做了那如果這個公寓大樓又轉到已清去已清說他們沒有辦法接新客戶"},{"start":373.703,"end":393.383,"text":"好那所以現在不是一個社區我現在已經看到很多社區的這個陳情了所以你這個分流從頭到尾都沒有寫秉清那如果真的秉清可以你就把它放上去啊你沒有放上去結果部長你知道放在什麼地方嗎部長非常可笑你看下一頁常見問答那這個重要的問題你寫說值得"},{"start":396.67,"end":409.241,"text":"可是他們問丙親不可以嗎然後你們回答就是說只要合法機構都可以所以甲乙丙親都能夠再廚餘這個地方不是澄清地方欸這個地方是這個民眾的問答你把這個重要問題放在這個地方而且你那寫話這個寫東西很離譜欸都能再廚餘你沒有說再廚餘去焚化爐喔"},{"start":420.391,"end":442.689,"text":"對 那現在就是這樣 部長如果真的是如你說的都可以 合法業者都可以因為美國公益道路他能夠簽約的對象等等是有限的啊那這個情況下是不是這樣子環境部你要嘛就是行文給這個這個清運業者啊不然就是折騰地方政府這個行文給地方人說是可以的不要讓這個秉慶業者拿這個你們的簡報當藉口說他不做了"},{"start":443.089,"end":452.592,"text":"好 謝謝委員 建議這個部分我們上禮拜有兩次跟地方環保局有開過會那這個也做了一個修正今天就會發布出去你要修正啊 你看這麼重要的問題你在簡報上是指定了已清這個是一個嚴重的錯誤那部長現在團善跟餐飲業面臨很大的壓力我先告訴你校園的團善發生什麼事因為他們為了排隊進這個焚化廠我剛剛講的每個要多花三到四小時"},{"start":467.037,"end":496.048,"text":"那如果沒辦法進場 要自己找地方放那除了這個時間成本 還有回收作業混亂之外有些業者因為調不到車 您知道嗎甚至以營養午餐的餐車再廚餘這種食安的疑慮都跑出來了你這個勢必要說小朋友的這個餐食的值餘量啊餐車可以再廚餘嗎因為他沒辦法啦 因為他等不到 他進不去啊他排不到隊啊所以部長 這個原有廚餘這個部分部長請你要務必注意"},{"start":497.129,"end":517.503,"text":"這個不得了 這個是跟食安市是違背的也跟委員報告我們上禮拜針對這個議題也請那個陳理事長跟我們各縣市環保局調那其實各縣市我在這邊都有報表哪個縣市有壓力的我們都知道陳理事長也有另外一個問題我先請教你原來廚餘處理有補貼你是不是要終止還是延長辦理基本上這個是到今年年底因為我們現在是中央應變中心還在開設當中"},{"start":519.164,"end":536.885,"text":"你不補貼OK了 不過就是委託方他成本就增加這成本將會帶動什麼 大概部長你心裡有數喔你剛剛講說陳理事長就餐食食品公會的全聯會理事長他的公司就是這樣他說以輕的報價是每公噸一萬三到一萬四可是你們環境部預期的是八千元啊"},{"start":538.359,"end":565.489,"text":"那差很大啊那這麼多的這個費用那你怎麼處理到最後你不要瘦了小孩子的這個營養餐啊營養午餐啊增加了國人負擔報告委員我也請大家想一件事情就是說我們的所有廚餘就是所有的這個團散公餐有三成變的廚餘這個是我們是不是可以有更好改善的空間那第二個呢是這個的費用會處理我們現在其實我們上禮拜也有跟陳理事長也有到我們的群組跟差很大啊兩個人數字"},{"start":565.929,"end":583.214,"text":"基本上這個不是全台灣都這樣就是有些縣市它的確會遇到一些短時間的一個陣痛我們都在處理當中各縣市都在處理當中當廚藝沒有氣促然後那個沒有去的地方然後它的輕運成本又提高你知道結果就是會有很多跟垃圾山一樣嘛氣質廚藝嘛 就開始出現了"},{"start":584.454,"end":600.852,"text":"基本上任何的製造的垃圾就有一定的成本然後任何的餐廳它本身的垃圾也都說過已經在清除了部長那我在這裡最後談一個也是垃圾引起的問題台南市烏樹林廢棄物佔自償的事它總共燒了十幾天那天你跟我說明天會熄火後來我想想說"},{"start":601.573,"end":626.153,"text":"已經超了差不多了吧那當然你大概預期要熄火了那我像正式就是說環境部要面對這次火災造成的嚴重污染問題請你看畫面你一邊看那我一邊講整個站市長的周圍全部農地也有農民在工作那土地或這個地下水都可能有潛在的代澳新跟多路聯本請問部長環境部預計如何監測代澳新跟多路聯本多久一次"},{"start":627.034,"end":642.836,"text":"這個部分那個台南市環保局他們已經在做了那我們會要求他們把資料帶給我看台南市環保局很有問題等一下我再繼續跟您談就是說你要多久驗一次您覺得要多久驗一次你看到旁邊都是農地啊還有人在耕地然後燒了一塌糊塗燒了十幾天啊"},{"start":644.751,"end":666.803,"text":"這個部分我們會再跟他們做確認因為這個其實上禮拜很努力在第二個問題如果驗出來了你怎麼賠償農民還是要等他們自己去找國賠基本上我們有跟台南市環保局在討論這個事那他們也告訴說他們未來的規劃包含良策等等然後跟地方的在溝通部長還有你現在燒完的我一步一步來燒完的那個灰渣跟廢水你要怎麼處理"},{"start":667.666,"end":688.953,"text":"基本上現在我們都有補原來這個就有一定補助的經費在處理這塊的廢棄物因為台南市政府拿了3.4億的廢棄物處理但那是颱風之後結果這件事情就是台南市環保局他找的地他跟國軍借用的地無償借用的地然後現在超出火了他們不負責所以我上次就問你說那台南市環保局要不要開罰"},{"start":690.151,"end":702.125,"text":"要不要開罰 你叫他自己管就叫他罰自己你要出面啊這個部分他如果是最後的這個火災他台南市政府有責任的話他們就會自己罰自己不是台南市 他這個區長他挑的他拿了政府的補助費3.4億然後他處理結果出事了他沒有責任嗎不要告訴我行政機關沒有責任喔"},{"start":710.758,"end":726.57,"text":"他們等於是說到底失火的原因他不自己放火就沒事嗎不會自己放火啦但是他自己如果說違反了法律他自己要罰自己這個是明確的那另外一個你確定嗎他要自己罰自己當然這個因為他地方的開罰是他們自己我任何協調會記者他都不出現喔好那我要求說這個非常清楚上次有一個那個他們還回答我說要證明有空氣污染請問燒了十幾天還要證明有空氣污染嗎所以部長我要知道台南市環保局什麼時候開罰"},{"start":740.2,"end":763.073,"text":"罰多少錢 然後他提出清運計畫沒有這個是地方的事務 謝謝委員給我們建議我會去了解他們的狀況我們也會去追蹤你敢辦 請問你台南到底有說找私立在保護他部長你敢辦台南市環保局嗎這已經太多累積是慣犯累犯報告委員 全台灣的只要有犯罪的都是我們會處理你說的 你剛剛報告說藍綠白都辦喔那台南市環保局請你盯著他從來不面對民意代表"},{"start":768.036,"end":781.867,"text":"台南市政府是面對台南市議會不是對立法院但是你可以去管啊你身為環境部啊台南市環保局如果做得不當你是否要去處理呢這個我們會努力去跟他們溝通因為他們的監管單位是台南市議會"},{"start":783.086,"end":808.572,"text":"部長你簡直說你在投降嗎沒有沒有我原本不能這樣說每個都有分工都有權責這件事太清楚了他拿了3.4億的行政費用然後他去找了一塊地還無償的我問過國軍無償以後然後這個堆堆得很高堆得很高然後堆得很邊邊然後非常危險然後居民之前就來告訴說會起火燃燒我有告訴過你然後真的燃燒了然後現在你告訴我"},{"start":809.412,"end":828.326,"text":"他們沒有辦法 你只是監督他去處理對 我們會監督你這樣對得起台南市民嗎台南市民是最挺民進黨的你這樣對待他們對嗎我們會密切的去要求他任何的監測報告最後的罰則我們會來處理你報告得非常清楚我希望你要有骨氣要有承擔的勇氣謝謝委員 謝謝部長 謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}