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:2104.22,"end":2121.109,"text":"時間中華民國一百日四年四月三十日星期三上午九十二分至九十三十一分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員黃國昌委員等十一人列席委員鍾嘉斌委員等四人列席官員未到主席莊昭吉委員瑞雄"},{"start":2122.149,"end":2135.388,"text":"報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請立法院秘書長 議事處處長法治局局長列席就3月25日晚間本院違法會議及違法表決之事法性是否有違公務員服務法 進行專題報告並被質詢通過臨時提案一項 宣讀完畢"},{"start":2141.124,"end":2159.169,"text":"好 我因為現在在場的委員不足三人我剛才看吳宗正走過來 再簽一下 再照去那我們等一下等人數達三人的時候 我們再行來確定那接著介紹在場的委員 向旁邊的 王玉昌委員 給他打招呼一下 有啊 一起來打招呼"},{"start":2165.613,"end":2169.516,"text":"及應邀列席官員沒來 還是沒來 今天沒人來 沒人捧場"},{"start":2174.642,"end":2193.872,"text":"那我們本次議程的排定是邀請我們立法院秘書長議事處處長還有法治局局長來列席針對防止立法院成為國安破口避免共諜滲透機敏資訊洩漏等國安事件的一個防制措施進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":2197.654,"end":2214.027,"text":"再一次來做一個說明今天我相信大家看到如果召委所排出來的這樣的一個議題防止立法院稱為國安破口避免共諜滲透 機敏資訊洩漏等國安事件的防治措施這個"},{"start":2215.868,"end":2228.718,"text":"是立法院秘書處的一個職責這個也是立法院必須不能只要求別人自己不做所以我們今天針對這樣的一個防治措施來進行專題報告再次強調具備公義性而且非常非常的一個重要很可惜我們今天的"},{"start":2239.266,"end":2261.062,"text":"秘書長 還有議事處處長 還有法治局局長沒來啦 這個是沒來的原因 實在是天黑一片啦就是我們的立法院發出的新聞稿 說幕僚人員並不是立法委員監督的一個對象我們必須要講 這種不請假 不報告 不出面"},{"start":2263.223,"end":2277.256,"text":"身份其實已經不是秘書長了這個身份其實就是一個太上皇了公務人員你說你不守法你國會還談什麼法治這個秘書處尤其周恩來秘書長還有我們韓國瑜院長其實應該給社會一個交代躲在藍白的後面來抵制我們整個一個委員會的一個召開"},{"start":2290.687,"end":2296.091,"text":"這個是非常的一個不當就算我們從禮拜一所排列的議程裡面來看的話針對3月25號違法表決 其實違法表決裡面大家很清楚就是你作案來的一份 連說明都不敢這個講說它是議會的一個活字典 這是很大的一個諷刺"},{"start":2314.742,"end":2335.642,"text":"那從這三次的排案開始大家應該也可以預測的到以後我們的秘書處在立法院是橫著走就像螃蟹一樣這個置外於整個一個制度一個監督這個我相信這個全民都不會接受我們也嚴重的一個譴責來 請問在場委員有什麼意見嗎 王一川"},{"start":2341.465,"end":2345.667,"text":"主席我問一下 如果這樣我們可不可以質詢啊有人來 你要對著空氣質詢沒關係啦好 來 第一位質詢委員 王一川委員請周恩來秘書長沒有來我站起來給你整理喔 你那個是什麼"},{"start":2373.508,"end":2392.284,"text":"王逸川委員還沒有開始質詢以前因為現在在場三位委員那我們之前的議事錄已經宣讀完畢現在 尚未確定啦那現在我們先確定議事錄請問各位委員上次會議的議事錄有沒有錯誤跟遺漏沒有 這樣我們的議事錄就確定我們接下來請王逸川委員質詢"},{"start":2404.482,"end":2414.364,"text":"那個年紀大大,你把它放好,要給人尊重不過來是遷就而已,我們這沒人羞辱的,要緊整理時間沒人來,隨他講好,謝謝召委,我們請那個周萬海秘書長"},{"start":2431.584,"end":2456.116,"text":"沒來啦 你的底啊好 沒關係這個自從韓國瑜當了立法院院長以後啊這個原本訂好的議事規則不管是周萬來寫的書啊國家考試啊考試院不管考什麼題目啊現在這切全部都要寫例外萬來有一個規則"},{"start":2457.796,"end":2483.61,"text":"現在都要改作例外情形我認同國家科企科立法院相關的規則的時候可能大家考生都要寫 以上寫完但是發生過例外這樣搞得算完整這次召委排了三天的會這些題目看起來有漂亮嗎 節目有漂亮嗎我講你不要把我打斷"},{"start":2486.036,"end":2502.724,"text":"這些題目看起來都還蠻中性的第一天白上第一天白立法院的資安要怎麼處理因為我們的各個行政機關從行政院開始到各縣市政府各級機關都有資安問題"},{"start":2505.578,"end":2516.109,"text":"這樣就請立法院包括相關的人員 秘書長 所有相關的同仁一起來跟大家說明一下立法院的治安第二個題目叫做立法院院區的空間 議事的空間"},{"start":2526.554,"end":2536.122,"text":"這當然牽扯到立法院有要拔除或是要去其他的縣區要刷去台中、武鴻、澳洲,要刷去哪裡刷去哪裡這些也可以討論請秘書長針對現在規劃的情形來報告也不來這是第二題第三題就要問說立法院很多的議事規則譬如說聽各位開一刀火"},{"start":2556.669,"end":2574.638,"text":"明明開會時間已經定好,到下午的六點,六點一到大家就解散了嘛,慣例就是這樣嘛,六點一到大家就解散了韓國瑜院長進來我就這樣七點十一開始開會,然後處理相關的議案"},{"start":2579.887,"end":2595.904,"text":"總是大家問這是慣例嗎這個如果符合議事規則那以後這個就是慣例喔那如果是慣例的話那以後可能不只這個立法院的院長啦 副院長啦 比如說這個"},{"start":2598.227,"end":2610.696,"text":"莊瑞雄召委,林耕英做召委,或是我做召委開會說今天開到5點半,我6點就收到去處理議案這是不是我們被管理,這也希望立法院的秘書長來跟我們說明一下,議事處長來說明一下今天要的題目"},{"start":2622.672,"end":2643.167,"text":"說立法院也有可能成為國安的破口嘛因為裡面有立法委員啊有國會助理啊有立法院的議事人員啊很多人都會接觸到所謂的國安的這個文件裡頭可能是有機密的我們今天有寫一個密的開會的時候啊這個機密會議最之前啊這禮拜有一個會叫做不公開會議"},{"start":2652.967,"end":2671.458,"text":"有一個公開會議 機密會議 還有一個假的 發明一個叫做不公開會議那到底是不是機密會議 總是大家可以問一下那這些題目啊 其實都還蠻中性的因為我們昨晚來秘書長啊 那個韓國瑜拚來當秘書長的時候吼 明天啊 把他抄大告 惡惡告"},{"start":2678.636,"end":2689.065,"text":"什麼活字典 什麼立法委員 國會助理 如果沒有把他寫的文章都不會開花好 現在大家來就很認真把他寫 要來做國會助理的 大家手頭都一本大家來議事處理到一半 不知道就拿一本給他寫看看我們這個活字典有跟我們說什麼嗎 同時就這樣超大 多高 多高"},{"start":2706.075,"end":2709.36,"text":"歷經多少院長,對什麼開始做什麼都罰什麼草野協商都罰,議事過去的爭議什麼都罰"},{"start":2719.602,"end":2725.926,"text":"後來當時很奇怪的, 韓國的做議長之後, 整個立法院開會都早晨,沒有叫幾次來走,在立法院職權刑事法、憲法、訴訟法、選罷法,不管是議事程序,還是對法律的解釋,這個昨晚來講的,有個另外一套, 把韓國的老闆弄亂了"},{"start":2748.922,"end":2757.51,"text":"韓國瑜如果坐在那裡,昨晚如果跟他說怎麼樣,他就怎麼樣我們議事處長說繼續唸,繼續唸,把他唸完,韓國瑜就把他唸完我姓韓國瑜,他不義韓國瑜就在旁邊這幾個一直跟他說,一直獨自調他,他就唸,一直唸,一直唸搞到現在立法院到底開會的規則是什麼,我也搞不清楚"},{"start":2775.029,"end":2783.778,"text":"所以我們召委就用心良苦,想說一天不夠,不然請秘書長來我們問三天不敢逮捕大家深入探討一下,不可以來,不可以來也很粗糙你如果不可以來,我六種方式,一種你就要親家嘛,親家也很多方式"},{"start":2797.203,"end":2806.731,"text":"請到一般一開始都要先靠一個電話,跟趙薇說,就另有要講,什麼怎麼做怎麼不可以來,我的價單還要跟他們報來第二種,為了電話沒要靠就一條,叫一條公文來,我就沒辦法來,不然就是全劑出來說,這怎麼做怎麼做,所以照過去幾十年來的慣例,我就心分上沒辦法去,所以怎麼做怎麼做"},{"start":2826.397,"end":2841.352,"text":"可是我們這裏的秘書長,這些動作都沒有做都沒有做,書面的文件都沒有,端端的不可以來,還有請韓國的寫一張文情並茂,還有燙金的什麼,那也不是叫請假單,那也不是什麼單,像現在還有一張抓來,這裏沒有人,這裏連一張抓都沒有"},{"start":2851.038,"end":2856.302,"text":"這次就是發動媒體,叫媒體跟各位委員說,我沒有要去就算是小白,昨晚來這種就算是小白啦,大型啦小白啦,大型啦,當作自己多厲害,賭多厲害啦我要說啦,那個什麼新聞稿啦,那個什麼湯津的那張大啦那絕對不是韓國的事啦,韓國還不夠多"},{"start":2879.11,"end":2883.012,"text":"那些人早晚來自己寫的啦 自己提自己寫說不要來的理由啦像這種的 在書上都會記載的 會記載那些缺席的像莊瑞雄早晚擺這個廢料 除了這個早晚來沒來 創下紀錄一番你這樣三天沒到黃國昌三天沒有登記發言"},{"start":2904.346,"end":2924.352,"text":"這如果算出席率就對了 該委員會出席率 黃國昌是缺席三次欸 你們這抄什麼給我看好黃國昌有三天沒有來開會 簽到完就跑了簽到完就跑 黃國昌有三天 簽完到就跑了沒有登記發言 第一次看到黃國昌會怕 不敢來發言為什麼"},{"start":2929.653,"end":2931.958,"text":"為什麼?因為現在北蘭的人說的就糾正了嘛,就靠你們說都不可以來不可以來,還要顧名釣譽,還要來遷到"},{"start":2940.609,"end":2944.972,"text":"你們白臘娘娘在這個會不可以叫祖母奶奶你們千刀就不可以 又沽名釣譽好 叫我會議紀錄頂管 沒我們的名字 哎呦 當個酸民的我們在廠裡說 國產老師怎麼沒有去開會 國產老師怎麼沒有去開會啊 過去 登記了 趕快來鬧跑 怎麼沒有登記發言"},{"start":2960.916,"end":2972.58,"text":"為什麼沒有登記花園啊王國昌你為什麼三天都沒有登記花園啊你給他唱啊 講好清楚那你如果不登記花園 你為什麼還簽到你為什麼還簽到 顧名釣譽啦顧名釣譽啦 他要過一個月才說我哪有簽到 但是連登記花園都沒有啊這個都是喔 因為週末來沒辦法來演化的後續的這個效果"},{"start":2989.813,"end":2996.596,"text":"因為這個出來的效果好,但是說昨晚來不來,不來請教連書面資料也不給連書面資料也不給今天說這個立法院領綱的議事空間是要怎麼處理是不是有這個簽證啊什麼的計畫嘛這個案子很久了,很久了"},{"start":3016.974,"end":3039.066,"text":"阿目前的進度是怎樣阿昨晚來也來做一年多阿韓國的也來做一年多做一年多阿目前進度是怎樣連一張帳都不敢跟我們說連一個進度都不跟國人說明這是傲慢傲慢啦 漂白啦 大型啦就是這樣第二個"},{"start":3042.653,"end":3057.198,"text":"大家問說立法院有國安破口 立法院有沒有國安的機制啊防止這個破口 不管是資安的破口 人員啊可能涉及的這個國安相關的這個破口那另外一屆也有回到這個情形嗎"},{"start":3062.479,"end":3078.602,"text":"總是做一個立法院的行政單位包括秘書長、資訊相關的單位、副知人總是要來替大家報告一下說現在立法院要處理國安的問題、資安的問題現在到底我們做了什麼樣的努力要嗎?連一張座也不要"},{"start":3092.947,"end":3104.275,"text":"不要請教,不給書面資料,也不跟召委商量一下,說我怎麼樣就怎麼樣,怎麼樣就怎麼樣,沒辦法怎麼樣,怎麼樣也沒有這如果成為慣例,以後我們的行政部門,醫療就對了行政院長,也一樣如法炮製,衝一場燙金的端來"},{"start":3122.919,"end":3139.548,"text":"我還要講喔 領工啊 我們這什麼內政部長不可以去我們這交通部長不可以去 我也不可以去 我們就都不可以去 啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊啊"},{"start":3152.383,"end":3179.13,"text":"後來擺吳宗憲召委擺的議程請司法院的副秘書長來司法院的副秘書長來如果司法院一樣發一個公文來說不好意思比照辦理立法院秘書長不出席我司法院的副秘書長也不出席我的總統府以後也不要出席"},{"start":3180.031,"end":3184.238,"text":"那請問禮拜一 我就看禮拜一吳宗憲要怎麼主持看禮拜一吳宗憲要怎麼主持"},{"start":3192.958,"end":3207.041,"text":"你國民黨做招委,你就要求這行政部門的秘書長、副秘書長都要來啊如果不要來,不來就在叭叭叫動一動的,口水噴了,整個麥克風都熄,都在咆哮你香港的領導的立法院,昨晚來,立法院秘書長不要來"},{"start":3219.715,"end":3238.289,"text":"齁 你們這樣幾天沽名釣譽 命纏纏的繞跑不敢登記花園 不敢做任何的抨擊想去種的甘木耗 這草仔給我藏起來 你也看一看你民眾董的 點點 都可以不要來黃國昌缺席三次 蹺課 蹺課 蹺課"},{"start":3244.861,"end":3253.244,"text":"沒有人這樣啦,這趙薇喔,白傑文也很辛苦,我一天四塊就趙薇,白傑這帝寶我想說,這帝寶也很中性的啊你來就說明,沒辦法說明就叫車旁邊的處長,什麼議事處長,什麼處長來倒過也可以啊都不要來,沒辦法來跟你譴責是剛好而已所以今天去啦,當然這個我對面這個趙萬來秘書長今天是沒來啦齁"},{"start":3274.431,"end":3286.448,"text":"啊沒來,我們說實在的,沒來,如果我們沒辦法逼他來,我們這個遭遇也算客氣了你如果看到人家在拜日,吳宗憲面對人家沒來,人家的態度是怎樣?"},{"start":3290.015,"end":3305.753,"text":"對不對 你是跟資深衝突得好啊你如果要吳宗憲處理這條就沒什麼人了我就看吳宗憲後來拜他 有辦法像我們這個莊瑞相遭的劈起劍以後 再做一段娓娓道來"},{"start":3309.482,"end":3321.852,"text":"說一些成語好,我今天就質詢到這裡就請趙偉安排這三天的議程終於讓我在第三天有講到話了好,謝謝趙偉好,謝謝王一川委員"},{"start":3327.39,"end":3337.295,"text":"很認真,所以到場的也不能因為行政部門的官員沒有到場,讓大家都沒有機會來發言接下來我們請陳培宇委員發言我會說發言的原因就是說,要質詢就沒人,要自己想"},{"start":3349.532,"end":3363.972,"text":"這是我來立法院兩年多以來第一次面對空蕩蕩的備詢台這也算是一個全新的經驗不過我必須要說這個經驗是不好的經驗所以主席我們沒有現實報告主席我們沒有現實"},{"start":3365.354,"end":3373.244,"text":"我看你沒有按計時器時間自有調控一下反正現在來了少我盡量給大家方便好 謝謝主席來我們來看一下其實這三天的安排的議題其實對於整個立法院也好"},{"start":3380.934,"end":3400.315,"text":"都有非常重要實質的意義不管是秘書處、行政部門或者是總務處、人事處本來就要對相關業務是處於一個必須要向立法院報告的狀態可是我們非常遺憾的是過去這一年多以來在藍白多數主導立法院的情況下屢屢發生非常多荒謬的事情"},{"start":3401.016,"end":3408.803,"text":"我們就從其中一個司法法制委員會這個禮拜排的議案作為切入光是3月25號強行通過的違法會議非法表決所造成的空殼公投我要再一次強調如果我們來看這個時間軸事實上當天是早上9點鐘會議開始"},{"start":3421.773,"end":3433.987,"text":"可是當天因為有游志斌的事件到底他是誰的助理到底他是誰的辦公室的同仁不管是陳玉珍或者是韓國瑜院長都交代的不清不楚我們甚至懷疑有人說謊"},{"start":3436.51,"end":3455.093,"text":"一整天開始呢韓國瑜院長不願意處理不過韓國瑜院長不處理這件事情也不是第一次了在這一年多來他始終呢就是只會訂便當慶祝大家生日這個慷樂鼓掌非常盡責但是身為一個立法院長實在失職結果呢到了當天下午的三點半巨傳有竹聯幫"},{"start":3456.094,"end":3473.93,"text":"要在康源餐廳聚餐選幫主那其實這件事情呢第一時間內政部就有處理可是我們要問到底是誰放任黑道做這樣的事情到了五點鐘我們發現黃國昌為什麼要針對黃國昌呢因為他當天提出一個要延長會議"},{"start":3475.351,"end":3501.203,"text":"的臨時提案可是他一整天都沒有來立法院而且呢這個延長會議的提案事實上他也必須要主席宣布可是很奇怪是主席也沒有宣布他們兩個就像彼此都會通靈一樣喔在六點鐘以後呢所有的國民黨還有民眾黨委員就一起衝進立法院在會議時間之後要一起來開會然後呢當時我們就問他到底現在是不是開會時間他其實也講不清楚結果"},{"start":3503.113,"end":3531.253,"text":"當時國會頻道的直播我們還發現他切換到休息這個畫面也就是說他們呢自己知道這件事情是有問題的所以他們選在一個奇怪的開會時間而且我們要再次強調當天其實已經超過了法定的開會時間可是他們依然還是要強行開會而這個主導者不管是傅坤祺不管是韓國瑜不管是黃國昌我想國人都看在眼裡那接下來我們來看一下關於立法院的資安防護這件事情"},{"start":3531.733,"end":3545.892,"text":"事實上在去年司法法制的鍾嘉斌委員就已經有問到立法院每一個月遭受到資安的攻擊將近90萬次每月90萬次是一個什麼概念一個月如果30天來算"},{"start":3548.56,"end":3568.312,"text":"這個算法算下去我們可以想見立法院絕對有很大的問題那遭受到這個攻擊到底資安人員如何面對或是相關的系統如何處理而韓國瑜身為立法院長他主理著行政單位他們有沒有意識到這件事情還是他們認為來自對岸的敵意不需要處理反正呢"},{"start":3568.972,"end":3594.925,"text":"國共一家親這件事情好像已然是一個事實所以他們完全不想去防護完全不想去保護立法院相關子安的安全所以他們才決定今天不來嗎是這樣嗎接下來呢他們又說他們非常非常在意共諜的案子那我們就說該查就查該辦就辦事實上所有的民進黨籍立委當時有牽涉到這個相關共諜案的立委也都說該查就查該辦就辦絕不寬待"},{"start":3597.586,"end":3609.535,"text":"那我想這個立場如果已經這麼清楚了為什麼藍白在這件事情上始終不敢面對這件事情還有之前我在司法法制委員會質詢過關於連署造假、抄錄名冊、死亡連署的議題國家無分黨派滲透行為無分藍綠白只要有違法疑慮應該就要秉公查辦絕不護短"},{"start":3620.023,"end":3639.852,"text":"那民進黨也絕對不會像國民黨一樣去支持違法或造假的行為很可惜我們看到國民黨不只造假昨天還有人公開承認自己就是促成這個錯誤案件的人講到共諜其實共諜最大受害者是國民黨但國民黨恐怕已經忘記了自己的歷史過去呢"},{"start":3641.044,"end":3659.844,"text":"在國共內戰的時候很多人都發現了相關的史料裡面發現了中國共產黨派非常多的人滲透在國民黨的身邊不管是連開會的人啊會議記錄甚至是做小小小小事情的人大到官階將領都有共諜在滲透在中國國民黨裡頭"},{"start":3660.845,"end":3688.614,"text":"所以呢這可能也是當時國共內戰國民黨整個大敗的原因如果國民黨就是深受共諜毒害最深的苦衷那他們為什麼到今天為止卻選擇跟共諜站在一起就連昨天國台辦都出來幫他們說話說426他們做得好good job我實在是不知道到底誰才是應該最努力反共諜但現在卻跟共諜站在一起的中國國民黨你們真的對不起你們的老祖宗"},{"start":3689.614,"end":3707.402,"text":"好 接下來我們要繼續講我主席 我實在是覺得沒有人回答我 好煩喔心情很不好餒好 接下來我要講喔國民黨不只做這樣的事情他們甚至提名了一個不分區上一屆的不分區 無私懷"},{"start":3708.682,"end":3728.002,"text":"吳斯懷這位退將呢他當時被提名為不分區他也做了一屆可是當時他卻協同多名退將到北京的人民大會堂聽習近平講話你看他做那個端端正正的樣子一副好像要效忠國家的樣子但是我們來看一下他效忠的國家是哪一國"},{"start":3728.88,"end":3743.43,"text":"是中國內這樣子的國民黨不分區立法委員難道還要我們相信中國共產黨是反共的嗎中國國民黨是反共的嗎當然不是甚至他們的國安破口翁小林還在公開質詢的時候要求農業部陳部長"},{"start":3745.131,"end":3767.385,"text":"提供所謂的暫時的糧食配送站地圖這個更加的荒謬如果是暫時的機敏資料現在提供給你們這些舔共賣台的立委真的適合嗎?而你還敢在公開視訊講這個話真的是在跟主子告訴主子說我做得很好good job 嘉義還是說你其實要惹怒更多的台灣人"},{"start":3769.073,"end":3786.362,"text":"那很多時候中國國民黨會說到底誰才是共諜誰才是跟中國站在一起的人可笑的是在四二六的前夕今年四二六前夕連勝文也就是國民黨的副主席他才跑去見宋濤他說了什麼話呢他說"},{"start":3787.643,"end":3802.294,"text":"中國在面對關稅衝擊的時候台灣應該要主動幫忙中國這是什麼荒謬的言論接下來4月17號往前推個幾天洪秀柱一樣去拜見國台辦主席宋濤他繼續談兩岸一家親他繼續談九二共識"},{"start":3806.397,"end":3829.447,"text":"他們呢每一個人都急著去填貢每一個人都急著要把台灣賣出去大家更不要忘記去年4月26號在0403大地震之後呢傅昆奇說要去促成兩岸交流他帶了16名國民黨立委去拜見中國的網顧你更不要說他在2025的時候去到香港在香港的公開會議上說他代表中央政府"},{"start":3830.047,"end":3846.772,"text":"這就是現在國民黨的樣態所以呢可能是因為國民黨現在這個囂張的樣子才讓周萬來他可以選擇不來才讓周萬來和韓國瑜出一個新聞稿就可以做出藐視國會藐視主席這樣的行為最後我們來看一下為了情資的控管"},{"start":3847.672,"end":3874.499,"text":"民進黨的委員提出了多項關於國安法案也就是兩岸人民關係條例我們辦公室當然也有提案我們的要求非常簡單立法委員附中必須申報可是卻在程序委員會多次被擋下到目前為止所有委員提案被擋下的次數已經超過300多次而這樣子一再阻擋卻告訴我們是要挺國安國民黨居心何在其實我們真的都看不懂"},{"start":3875.299,"end":3898.39,"text":"基本上在台灣所有的政務官縣市首長還有大多數的基層軍公教去中國以前都必須要報備這個是有相關的法規範可是掌握這麼多權力跟機密的立法委員卻沒有相關任何的風險管理機制我們真的覺得非常的荒謬更可笑的是林國成民眾黨的立法委員還在總質詢當中聲稱說這沒有黨啦這叫暫緩"},{"start":3904.073,"end":3919.734,"text":"就像陈玉珍打我一样却叫做排除这就是现在的国民党跟民众党在做的事情他们不仅党法案他们在立法院有暴力行为甚至连同周万来秘书长都可以不尊重司法法室委员会都可以选择不出席"},{"start":3921.497,"end":3943.136,"text":"藐視司法法制委員會我想這個是他們到底做了什麼樣的壞事大家真的都看在眼裡這個打假球的行為我想真的是要停止所以我簡單的呼籲雖然他沒有來我還是要講給他聽如果國民黨或是民眾黨認為國會助理有涉共諜案我們堅持部分黨派該查就查該辦就辦而立法院我們自己也"},{"start":3943.536,"end":3966.588,"text":"應該要快速訂定相關的內規防止國會助理涉入共諜案還有相關的立法委員附中必須申報的法案我們希望可以儘速排審進入委員會不要再被擋在程序委員會了如果藍白兩黨真的在乎國安就請不要再打假球好 以上空氣質詢完畢謝謝主席好 謝謝程培委員接下來我們請吳思瑤委員發言"},{"start":3984.008,"end":4000.181,"text":"謝謝主席我相信周萬來秘書長此時此刻他仍不敢來到司法法治委員會但他一定在立法院的某一個空間某一個辦公室"},{"start":4000.683,"end":4015.097,"text":"正在看著司法法治委員會的線上直播所以我相信我現在對於周秘書長所提出的各項議題的質詢他就算沒有來也應當認真聽也應當做筆記畢竟能夠來成為立法院的秘書長"},{"start":4022.063,"end":4041.029,"text":"是國家賦予責任是人民對國會有所期待秘書長即便成了州亂來成了州不來但是他還是中華民國立法院的秘書長該做的事還是應當做好"},{"start":4041.909,"end":4061.048,"text":"而不是一再的代乎職責首先要跟主席先報告今天本席依舊會再次提出臨時提案周秘書長一次不來我們就譴責一次我想這也創下了立法院有史以來單周"},{"start":4061.849,"end":4078.69,"text":"第三次被譴責的任何一個我們的從政人員應當是也創下了史上被譴責次數最密集的一個記錄而這個負面的記錄是他自己做到的"},{"start":4079.861,"end":4105.142,"text":"那今天我很認真的針對這一週我們沒有辦法來發言來進行民主討論理性對話的三個主題簡要盡可能濃縮為一次的發言我希望能夠透過議事記錄能夠明確的登載因為立委的問政向公民負責向社會負責那今天我們要來看看"},{"start":4106.363,"end":4130.723,"text":"立法院已經成了太上院除了去年國會擴權的法案一再的被大法官打臉國會並沒有國會優位但顯然藍白的委員還有韓國瑜主導的立法院是憲法於無物立院最大就像是一個傳染病一樣"},{"start":4131.824,"end":4141.981,"text":"不只立法院自己認為他是所有憲政機關地位最高的權力最大的連在立法院內部"},{"start":4143.717,"end":4171.707,"text":"的監督質詢民主運作居然韓院長跟周秘書長聯手立院最大在立法院的內部也成了一個上癮之前說違憲上癮現在是立院最大已經都成癮了所以今天我們除了再次的提出譴責之外我們要很嚴正的表達"},{"start":4173.127,"end":4196.838,"text":"這不是針對任何的個人立法院的秘書長今天是周萬來過去有林志嘉有不同的人未來也會有新的人來接任但不管誰擔任這個職務都要恪遵議事中立我們關切的不是對於個人的批判而是對於制度的捍衛"},{"start":4198.118,"end":4220.003,"text":"昨天我們的主席莊昭偉說得非常好周恩來一再地藐視國會缺席司法法治委員會依程序議題合理正當所發出的備詢的邀請這個作為是對整個民主制度的背叛"},{"start":4222.336,"end":4238.43,"text":"這樣子的缺席藐視國會不循程序請假甚至要造成我們的會議沒有辦法進行這樣的惡行惡狀是一種對於台灣國會民主制度的背叛原來啊"},{"start":4241.482,"end":4268.259,"text":"我們的院長就是始作俑者居然院長無視於我們的內規院長要意識中立院長更要政治中立但是呢我們韓院長426上凱道我們固然尊重他的言論自由但是身為立法院的院長用許多不倫不類的比喻"},{"start":4271.041,"end":4288.827,"text":"來闡述台灣現在民主的危機我如果要套用韓院長的話他所謂的賴清德只會清一色而事實上真正清一色的人就不折不扣是韓國瑜"},{"start":4290.373,"end":4301.38,"text":"因為立法院已經成了藍白一色這藍白一色是什麼就是意識毫不中立政治也毫不公正"},{"start":4302.611,"end":4327.353,"text":"那只要藍白要的什麼都給都開綠燈只要少數黨民進黨的主張一再的被噤聲被閹割下一頁第一個最大的檔案是議事爭議也就是週三召委所排的這個議案想就教於周恩來秘書長違法會議可以弄假成真嗎非法表決"},{"start":4330.195,"end":4345.142,"text":"可以成为国会的惯例吗如果以现在国民党上上下下挺作弊挺违法挺造假的这个逻辑看来"},{"start":4346.704,"end":4369.403,"text":"周恩來乃至於韓國瑜院長在立法院所進行的非法會議違法表決也不過是整個國民黨體系系統性集體性的一種違法作弊的行為的延伸所以郭平動上上下下一個樣"},{"start":4370.902,"end":4399.838,"text":"我這裡列舉出來的議事爭議包括第一大類違反程序正義國會沒了民主討論第二大類是議事雙標行政中立蕩然無存第三大類是操弄行政程序居然可以把立法院三讀通過的法案作為人質肉票壓在立法院不送就不送"},{"start":4400.999,"end":4421.067,"text":"想送才送出包括選罷法延宕35天才送出裁劃法延宕62天才送出包括總預算延了30天送出一個沒有完整數額前所未見的預算審查案細節我就不多說"},{"start":4422.407,"end":4439.725,"text":"所以說 韓國瑜院長的藍白一色 韓國瑜院長的青一色就是一再的護航包庇藍白拔拍掉 意識不中立 成為台灣民主的常態其實剛剛裴宇委員說我們在這裡對著空氣說話 其實是蠻煎熬的"},{"start":4445.871,"end":4470.963,"text":"那我今天也有一點另外的感慨週一週三司法法治委員會有許多的媒體同仁來關切他們想要探尋立法院的秘書長會成為違法院的秘書長嗎週一週三還有很多媒體關切這個事但今天週四媒體在現場已經寥寥無幾"},{"start":4474.997,"end":4501.402,"text":"我要說的是如果在立法院舉手表決第一次民主倒退30年在國會擴權法案表決的時候舉手表決造成台灣社會多大的震撼可是第二次第三次在12月20號的限訴法選報法裁判法再一次動用舉手表決的時候台灣的社會可能已經麻木了可能覺得"},{"start":4503.386,"end":4526.802,"text":"過去有舉手表決 那現在再來一次也沒什麼關係了就像今天會議一樣周恩來一次不來 兩次不來媒體會追蹤 會報導 社會會譴責 會批判可是到第三次的時候 整個社會恐怕也麻木了一個立法院秘書長對於制度的背叛"},{"start":4528.674,"end":4553.342,"text":"當社會都已經麻木不仁不再關切也就是讓惡力成了慣例讓違法成了常態我認為這真的是台灣民主最大的悲哀所以周恩來秘書長號稱立法院的活字典我們從國會助理大學讀書研究所念政治一再的都會拜讀周恩來秘書長所寫的議事規則"},{"start":4556.519,"end":4578.778,"text":"但是當他自己踐踏了打臉了過去書中所闡述的意識規則跟意識中立那讓這樣子的意識不中立成為立院的常態我真的覺得比悲哀更悲哀下一頁我進入第二個主題就是國會擴簽件的爭議"},{"start":4581.46,"end":4602.07,"text":"是周一召委用心良苦想要了解的議題在游錫堃院長擔任第十屆立法院院長的時候國會擴建 簽建有具體的進程跟規劃甚至在2021年啟動成立了產官學研跨領域的專家委員會"},{"start":4604.464,"end":4621.742,"text":"經過幾年的討論也評選出六處優先考慮的擴遷建的基地長址包括中正紀念堂的園區包括空總的舊址也有委員提出土城看守所的限址"},{"start":4622.503,"end":4638.715,"text":"也有人提出台中成功嶺的營區或是高鐵彰化車站特定區乃至於中興文化創意產業園區在南投這是過去的第十屆專家學者討論的幾個擴建基地的選址我們以為"},{"start":4644.911,"end":4671.102,"text":"這樣子的討論會延伸不論選擇在哪裡台灣要作為一個國會的民主表徵它能夠成為民主監督的基地可以成為公民社會成炕的場域可以成為台灣民主教育的空間能夠成為國會外交的場址可以成為民主觀光的景點"},{"start":4672.783,"end":4690.783,"text":"當初這是由院長提出來的幾個宏觀的vision但是到韓院長的任內呢他一再推給黨團來協商再來討論後續但是黨團要不要協商是韓院長你要不要主持啊"},{"start":4692.004,"end":4704.409,"text":"韓院長就把立法院的擴建簽件這個時代的使命推給黨團協商而他本人不開協商然後連帶影響立法院已經編列的709萬的先期規劃評估報告一直暫緩執行到現在"},{"start":4713.334,"end":4738.854,"text":"所以擴遷建的爭議我們需要有宏觀遠見的立院院長來持續的撥劃擴大公共的討論很可惜那個具有宏觀遠見的立院院長不是韓國瑜下一頁我昨天在會議上也對召委提出詢問如果周恩來秘書長成了周不來"},{"start":4740.526,"end":4768.658,"text":"我們這會期要解凍預算那立法院的解凍預算不解凍了嗎雖然立法院的解凍預算金額不高好像只有800多萬但是循程序秘書長還是要來列席而我這邊具體針對立法院的預算執行的爭議我也想要就叫周萬來秘書長我相信他現在正在看直播"},{"start":4770.066,"end":4786.218,"text":"立法院一直二砍二删其他的憲法機關的預算其他政院部會的預算可是韓院長花錢不手軟用公帑來做個人的人情院長不折不扣就是康樂股長我們看看喔"},{"start":4788.832,"end":4809.244,"text":"這一張照片是國民黨的委員他在社群上PO出的他很開心的說韓院長呢很體恤立法院的職工員工買了五星級精華五星級精華酒店的月餅禮盒每一盒高達1380元立法院的職員工有1149位換算出來這一個花大錢"},{"start":4819.458,"end":4842.616,"text":"來做人情的花費就高達159萬我們認為職員工都很辛苦可是過去沒有任何一個院長花這麼大的金額一次性而且是五星級的月餅這是對應於我們在二崁二山其他院預算的同時間"},{"start":4845.802,"end":4864.647,"text":"立法院長可以這樣大手筆的花錢然後容許我們持續的去惡砍別人的預算嗎 下一頁預算的爭議還有一個立法院的電梯 中心大樓的三座電梯一直故障 怎麼修怎麼故障"},{"start":4866.551,"end":4889.384,"text":"韓院長很重視 所以要編預算再來修 我們支持 因為這涉及安全可是呢 立法院的預算這麼多 可是我赫然發現立法院要修電梯啟動的二倍金2350萬 是要求行政院之應啊"},{"start":4890.485,"end":4915.72,"text":"立法院修電梯自己不掏錢拗行政院買單而這個時刻還是立法院在大砍行政院預算的時間這樣的預算爭議立法院花不起這筆錢嗎周恩來秘書長在直播的另一邊您好好思索這個問題希望您以書面回答 下一頁"},{"start":4917.358,"end":4941.684,"text":"我也要請立法院秘書長以書面回答當我們砍監察院的預算砍了97%連監察院買衛生紙都綁手綁腳可是立法院添購新的設備卻是大手大腳大手筆我就發現最近立法院一直在換電視我不曉得張偉還有在場的委員是不是觀察我們的辦公室的電視一換再換"},{"start":4944.52,"end":4948.642,"text":"113年貸換一次花了將近160萬114年又編了將近125萬加36萬要再換100台的電視電視都壞光了嗎為什麼一直大手筆的在花錢呢就我自己的辦公室電視都還可以觀看都還很新為什麼要花這些冤枉錢好再來講電話"},{"start":4974.471,"end":4982.817,"text":"我赫然發現立法院編列預算汰換電話2900台以及行動分機500台藥花公帑6,899萬當我們大砍其他的部會的預算的時候我們自己買電視換電話這樣子的預算執行爭議請周萬來秘書長用書面答覆"},{"start":5004.025,"end":5024.855,"text":"第三個主題是今天召委排的主題小心匪諜就在立法院這絕對是嚴肅的國安漏洞公民監督聯盟所票選出來2024立法院的代表字居然是匪共匪這個匪"},{"start":5026.892,"end":5034.082,"text":"代表共諜是不是滲透進入了立法院這已經成為社會高度關注的議題下一頁"},{"start":5036.553,"end":5061.351,"text":"袁紅冰教授去年已經點出習近平下達指示在立法院的新國會鎖定韓國瑜、鎖定傅坤祺乃至於附隨組織黃國昌只要能夠影響這三人戰場就在立法院不論是以查弊案之名來破壞台灣的國防自主或經濟安全"},{"start":5062.492,"end":5083.833,"text":"或者是用國會改革的名義來遂行國會的擴權讓立法院成為台灣實體政治權力最大的舞台當然還包括要強化跟中國的統戰互動這些等等袁紅冰作家教授所說的每一件事情都應驗了下一頁"},{"start":5085.054,"end":5110.768,"text":"所以說共諜的爭議無所不在無孔不入國會極有可能是破口法務部我們上週所排列的專案報告吳宗憲委員所排的法務部所提出來的匪諜滲透的破口沒有辦法提到立法院因為立法院要自我克責自己來保密防諜下一頁"},{"start":5112.267,"end":5133.005,"text":"但是共諜的事件層出不窮是不分黨派在立法院藍白委員最近都在打2025年4月發生的前院長游錫堃辦公室的助理涉及向中共洩露立法院的相關機密當然該辦有共諜一定要辦不分黨派"},{"start":5134.326,"end":5144.411,"text":"但是藍白的委員不要忘了2020年立委陳淑慧的前助理立委張立善的前助理都涉犯了共諜案"},{"start":5146.745,"end":5166.951,"text":"2024年李上典郭沛晶兩位涉及收受中國的資助來為立委鄭天才助選免費招待選民赴中旅遊2024年的8月民眾黨的發言人桃園黨部馬志威收受中國資助百萬來選立委"},{"start":5170.092,"end":5191.633,"text":"這不都是共諜滲透的明證嗎更不要說陳玉珍號稱他的助理游志斌有中國籍還來大鬧國會所以要查共諜不分黨派都有被滲透的可能或是現在進行是大家修法立法要一起來下一頁"},{"start":5193.632,"end":5222.912,"text":"我具体的提出现在公部门对于公务人员的查核拒绝或者是情治人员国安人员资安人员有不同的查核跟调查的程序跟这个分级分类立法院目前没有任何查核或拒绝的机制请在线上观看直播的周万来秘书长好好来研究一套国会如何防范共谍"},{"start":5223.812,"end":5237.811,"text":"的自我克責跟相關的內規這是立法院要做的事不分黨派都要來做來最後而民進黨在這裡宣誓民進黨"},{"start":5239.817,"end":5266.114,"text":"會先行就以附中登載公開揭露的這件事情在立委的層次我們修的兩岸人民關係條例港澳人民關係條例等等已經被藍白聯手擋了363次如果說連立委附中登載一再被擋那未來如果要擴及立委的團隊助理"},{"start":5267.034,"end":5289.512,"text":"恐怕在立法院也很難過關但是民進黨團會先行我們已經啟動研議針對民進黨團的立委或助理群我們研議已簽同意書來做到主動揭露附中的相關資訊希望能夠藉由這樣子的一個動作"},{"start":5291.033,"end":5303.401,"text":"公開的登載能夠來達到事前報備事後報告來做很多防止共諜滲透的可能性的防範"},{"start":5304.744,"end":5327.932,"text":"所以藍白不做的民進黨團會先行但是我剛剛就教於周恩來秘書長的立法院如何建立一個內部的自我管控自我克責國會的自律針對防止共諜滲透的這件事情請立法院要以書面報告來答覆委員會"},{"start":5329.452,"end":5352.752,"text":"最後我用一分鐘的時間我要代表柯建民總召他已經具體針對周萬來秘書長高百祥議事處長還有郭明正法治局長具體提出了刑事的告發而告發的理由當然奠基於這一年來"},{"start":5354.738,"end":5375.468,"text":"被告周萬來高百祥身為立法院重要行政幕僚本應依公務員服務法及相關職責來確保議事程序之中立公正與合法為兩人明知議事規則之適用卻蓄意濫權代呼職務協助違反正常運作"},{"start":5377.413,"end":5405.654,"text":"協助違反議事的正常運作並縱容議事失序進而造成國會內部的民主癱瘓立委投票權也屢屢遭受非法妨礙因此柯建民總召對於上述三位提出了刑法第130條公務員廢除職務釀成災害罪來提起刑事的告發所以在這裡"},{"start":5407,"end":5433.68,"text":"這一個告發已經提出不管是公務員要送工程會懲戒或者是來做進行司法後續的告發跟偵辦我想民進黨團我們針對的不是個人我們針對的是對國會民主的制度那也要最後請教於昭偉我看到吳宗憲昭偉已經排了下週的議程"},{"start":5435.802,"end":5453.123,"text":"如果州案來所引用的立法院各委員會組織法第二條成立的話吳宗憲下周他不能排任何一個未經院會交付的專題報告可是他禮拜一跟禮拜三都排了專題報告"},{"start":5454.898,"end":5481.625,"text":"如果韓國瑜引用的條文成立的話吳宗憲召委也不得邀請擔任幕僚長的總統府秘書長國安會秘書長列席司法法治委員會所以這不是雙標什麼是雙標這不是藍白要的什麼都可以少數黨所排的案一律都封殺所以奧勒拜拿捏這幾個秘書長"},{"start":5484.269,"end":5504.011,"text":"是不是也可以如同州案來秘書長一樣不請假就不來開會這樣的專案報告是不是就不能成立不能成會我們不能監督不能質詢不能討論了呢所以這是一個非常嚴正的提問那我也在這裡結束我今天的"},{"start":5505.382,"end":5520.698,"text":"三次會議集合一次的質詢我們希望列為議事記錄希望在線上觀看的周秘書長周秘書長好好的以書面報告來回答今天本席所提出來的相關問題"},{"start":5522.355,"end":5524.478,"text":"好 謝謝吳世耀委員跟委員會報告接下來請審發會委員 審判員就不快點了那審判委員提書面所有登記委員"},{"start":5538.339,"end":5560.283,"text":"都已經發言完畢委員質詢要求提供的相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會委員稱陪於審判會所提書面質詢均列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關書面做答覆主席在這邊主席在這邊在特別在強調在強調"},{"start":5570.031,"end":5592.968,"text":"按照我們憲法第67條啊我們立法院本來就是得設各種委員會然後各個委員會呢得邀請政府人員跟社會有關係人員到會來備詢我們立法院的秘書處啊你不能享受這個公務人員的一個保障然後卻完全不盡義務發了"},{"start":5600.575,"end":5620.642,"text":"一篇新聞稿這絕對不會是免死金牌五院都是憲政機關你就把它看司法院秘書長還有考試院秘書長甚至於行政院秘書長還有監察院秘書長"},{"start":5622.762,"end":5648.604,"text":"都來到社會法治委員會來備詢行政院秘書長當然是在內政委員會也就是說各個憲政機關五院裡面院長的部分當然是基於整個憲政上的一個尊重都是秘書長都會到立法院來備詢今天我們看到從過去的慣例過去的慣例"},{"start":5650.134,"end":5674.947,"text":"不管是國民黨當召委或是民進黨當召委立法院秘書長都會到社法局委員會來做專題報告並備詢而且呢憲法67條也明文我們本來各委員會可以邀請政務人員到會來備詢那所以呢周萬來秘書長他不是不知道周萬來秘書長他其實"},{"start":5677.268,"end":5692.539,"text":"也到過我們不管是鍾嘉斌委員 或者說吳宗憲 趙偉他們在張昭偉的時候都邀請他們到我們委員會裡面來備詢過那刻意的這個禮拜開始就不來了 目無法際"},{"start":5694.045,"end":5711.061,"text":"那你講不出理由不敢來發個新聞稿當民使金牌 這個很明顯就是迴避監督保守又反動 毫無民主素養 還是要提出譴責接下來我們看臨時提案"},{"start":5722.654,"end":5724.275,"text":"還沒硬先宣讀吧我們現在收到委員提出臨時提案那依本會的往例通常是在上午11點處理但是今天列席的機關都會到場請問在場的委員我們是否現在處理臨時提案那請宣讀"},{"start":5745.585,"end":5767.431,"text":"臨時提案 立法院秘書長周萬來 議事處處長高百祥 法治局局長郭明正等人未經請假程序 近自缺席司法及法治委員會未提供會議主題之書面報告文件 更曲解毋庸立院內規立法院各委員會組織法第二條今日三度缺席 再次迴避國會監督 嚴重踐踏民主 呆乎職責 藐視國會"},{"start":5769.311,"end":5786.378,"text":"惡例已成慣例 違法已成常態 特此提出譴責提案人委員 莊瑞雄 吳思瑤 王逸川 審發會陳培宇 宣讀完畢請問在場委員有補充說明針對臨時提案 請問機關有其他意見或說明如果沒有的話 臨時提案 照案通過那本次啊 會議啊就到此結束現在 散會 謝謝大家"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}