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謝謝召委 我們有請顧部長請顧部長好 部長早"},{"start":12.985,"end":35.132,"text":"部長 針對目前大家所討論的這個軍備局205廠RDX海草根的這個火藥採購案那決標金額因為達到5.9億那也由於這個採購的項目是受到嚴格的管控的戰略物資那有人質疑說得標的廠商因為背景比較單薄會不會產生什麼樣的一個弊端"},{"start":35.872,"end":62.765,"text":"那部長您也在第一時間有出面做出了回應後續也看到國安部有進一步的這個說明那在這次的這個專報當中也針對廠商的這個資格標準資格審認的做法以及履約的管制作為等等有相關的解釋但是在這個輿論上針對採購專業和國安的疑慮仍然有相當多的這個臆測和解讀"},{"start":64.266,"end":81.615,"text":"那我想也藉由這次的巡打機會是不是請我們國安部針對疑點能夠盡可能的來釐清首先在這個報告當中那也有提到火藥的原物料受限於各國這個產量有限以及地緣政治的影響"},{"start":82.475,"end":110.656,"text":"那製造國往往優先滿足自身的一個需求加上嚴格的這個輸出管制導致供貨非常的不穩定表示說在這個原物料的供需上可能存在著失衡的一個狀況那如果國內廠商沒有這個產製能量也就必須在這個採購法的規範中來採取廣增商源的一個策略"},{"start":111.617,"end":140.38,"text":"確保我們彈藥武器的生產不中斷那我想先請教部長目前在這個國際間火藥的原物料取得有多困難那國防部在新聞稿當中又特別提到因為這個台灣在國際社會面對特殊的環境一旦商源開發受到惡意的這個破壞干擾採購將更加的困難那這樣的情況有沒有辦法可以避免"},{"start":142.756,"end":151.613,"text":"所以我想第一點我還是再特別強調就是說我們就是要廣增商源"},{"start":153.243,"end":181.577,"text":"我們的把關是在後面的履約的部分是那所以重點就是他能不能夠完成這個構案這個才是我們的重點嘛所以他要能夠拿到這一個當地政府的輸出許可的證明文件拿到原廠的證明文件而且這個品質是能夠經得起我們檢驗的這就是整個案子標案的一個重點這也才是話對重點那我們"},{"start":182.954,"end":208.9,"text":"過去 我要強調的是我們過去20年來過去20年來我們去統計的所有相關這些火料原物料的採購案都是如此 都是公開招標然後他訂的當然你要有公司你要有納稅證明其他另外一個條件就是你能夠從事國際貿易業所以你能夠從事國際貿易業的業務項目那你能夠拿到這個相關的這些"},{"start":210.441,"end":239.387,"text":"我們認為其實取得不易的當地政府的輸出許可的證明文件那他才會願意來進行參標啊那所以你訂定任何其他的資格或者你去計較這公司的名稱這個什麼資本額這個其實在我看來對於他日後能不能履約這件事情沒有相關性 沒有相關性"},{"start":240.731,"end":264.629,"text":"也就是他有辦法取得政府的輸出許可有辦法拿到原廠的證明有辦法從原廠拿到貨然後原廠願意承擔所有相關這些運送的包括要有專傳然後要有保險等等這些那運抵之後那能夠交貨那我們才會付錢"},{"start":266.601,"end":291.856,"text":"沒有辦法交得了貨我們不會付錢而且他還要承擔履約保證金被沒收他還要被停權所以我們認為整個的觀念就在於履約這個過程上面的一個嚴格的一個監督控管然後我們廣徵這一個商源讓大家都能夠有能力的人都能夠來參與"},{"start":293.693,"end":308.893,"text":"這也是我們針對投標廠商的一個這個審認的一個標準那也應該沒有廠商說來投標說他上面是標註他是這個火藥的這個供應商應該是沒有這種廠商"},{"start":309.784,"end":332.053,"text":"我們就是他能夠有國際貿易他能夠有一個代理的資格因為國內沒有自製產能那要從外面採購進來那他只要有從事國際貿易他能夠拿到我剛剛講的這些重要的這些許可的文件然後他能夠拿到貨這才是重點"},{"start":334.541,"end":362.48,"text":"我們國軍對於這個生產炸藥的資訊是相對的保密不過有其他的報宅指出我們在數十年前大概在1980年左右我們203兵工廠就曾經建立RDS炸藥的一個生產線並且在近年來205廠也曾經多次招標生產控制系統的違保案以維持RDS炸藥的一個生產"},{"start":363.94,"end":376.785,"text":"那我想再請教部長針對我們所需要的這個炸藥國軍是否有自製的一個量能那是因為什麼樣的一個需求或原因才有必要對外採購RDS炸藥跟委員報告"},{"start":378.806,"end":398.112,"text":"為了因應各式彈藥火炸藥的需求我們在民國63年就已經依照了美軍MILO STANDARD海藻根的一個標準由瑞士碧雅材原廠計轉設置產線迄今原廠實施維護保養目前都均為妥善的運用那這次為什麼會在"},{"start":399.881,"end":429.325,"text":"外購是因應軍種未來不對稱作戰裝備的需求的量增加現有的廠人無法滿足我們超前部署然後自製以採購來並行所以這次買了170噸的一個海藻根我們後續會編列相關的預算我們會來擴限擴限完成之後我們就是自己來提煉達到國防自主跟滿足我們耳後所有武器裝備生產的需求 以上報告"},{"start":431.47,"end":431.851,"text":"部長還要補充嗎 沒有"},{"start":435.424,"end":462.487,"text":"我想另外對於這個炸藥的一個籌貨如果我們國內有自主生產的一個潛力那也應該考慮到投入更多的資源來強化我們國防自主的這個能力我想針對國內研發炸藥的這個項目這個議題 來 何部長您再做討論去年曾經有報載內容指出那國軍已經成功研製出CL20的一個炸藥"},{"start":463.248,"end":482.258,"text":"那它的這個爆炸效能和威力比現有的炸藥大概高出40%的部分過往這個包括美國中國甚至這個俄羅斯都有進行製造製作和運用那我們今年也有看到"},{"start":483.278,"end":499.627,"text":"快騎無人攻擊艇搭載CL20的炸藥的這個消息如果能夠結合各式的武器使用那對於國軍的戰力相當有所提升那我想請教部長有關CL20的炸藥我們目前生產"},{"start":501.168,"end":514.916,"text":"這個生產線的量能進度為何那生產的成本是否能夠再降低後續應用的這種各式國造的飛彈或無人載具有什麼樣的一個規劃可以做連結那"},{"start":516.497,"end":535.248,"text":"目前這個組織單位應該是中科院好 那針對這個部分部長或是我們院長是不是可公開的部分可以做簡要的說明是 第一個就是因為CL20的技術已經列入國家關鍵核心技術所以它的量能的部分我這邊沒辦法做很具體的描述"},{"start":535.828,"end":549.744,"text":"第二個就是有關它的產製的效益和那個價格的問題我們現在已經把CL20的前驅物質跟國內的化工廠商做合作前驅物質不牽涉危險性的部分都交給國內的廠商來做"},{"start":550.985,"end":566.241,"text":"後面要精煉的部分再由我們來執行所以它的價格已經比當時在實驗階段降低了一半以上降低一半是但是CL20因為在國際上大家都是一個很保密的技術也沒有公開的售價所以我們也沒有辦法去評斷說這個售價它的競爭力和標準"},{"start":569.665,"end":596.079,"text":"那至於未來運用的規劃部分沒有錯就是我們今年在快騎艇的公開展演上我們的確用了CL20炸藥進去來增加它的爆炸的威能那另外就是未來我們目前初步規劃就是CL20主要運用會在所有國軍自製的無人載具上面包含無人艇無人機只要攻擊型的無人載具我們盡量都把它裝上這種比較高能的炸藥來發揮它的攻擊戰力好"},{"start":599.639,"end":617.636,"text":"那這個火藥原物料的取得是否順利對於我們軍備的一個量能還有戰力的一個建構都有相當程度的一個影響那我也請國防部務必要以最高的標準嚴格把關那不論是透過採購或是我們自主的研發"},{"start":618.797,"end":647.684,"text":"都盡最大的這個努力來籌獲我們相關的一個戰略物資也藉由這次的事件來檢視未來我們怎樣來強化軍備的採購審查相關的一個規範不但能夠找到合法合規有專業乘坐能力的相關廠商同時取得在社會大眾信任的基礎上這也是需要持續精進的一個部分那這一部分我就請我們部長跟相關部委"},{"start":648.444,"end":671.89,"text":"我想簡單報告兩點第一點就是說我們身處特殊的國際環境剛剛陳委員也提到了我們其實原物料來源取得不易我們希望大家都能夠讓我們的火藥原物料來源不要因此而斷裂所以在這裡還是希望大家一起來"},{"start":674.812,"end":689.028,"text":"這個支持我們的這些建軍備戰的這所需要的火藥原物料那第二個當然就是說我們國防部都是經得起公開監督檢視好 以上的謝謝部長跟相關部會的答詢 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}