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一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定 議事錄確定二 國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌列席報告業務概況並被質詢本次議程有委員 外媒林等14人提出質詢均經國立故宮博物院院長蕭宗煌及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員 林沛翔 張雅琳提出順便質詢決定 一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員所提順便質詢後相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報"},{"start":1847.336,"end":1853.499,"text":"三對議委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以順便答覆 宣讀完畢請問各位委員 議事上次會議議事錄有錯誤跟遺漏之處沒有 那我們議事錄確定那今天議程是處理114年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算解凍案49案"},{"start":1874.946,"end":1899.539,"text":"那首先我們來介紹在場的官員先介紹委員我們吳佩奕委員范雲委員好 那我們來介紹與會的官員文化部李遠部長還有徐玉君常務次長那其他司長我們就不給介紹了"},{"start":1901.38,"end":1926.993,"text":"那再來我們來介紹文策院董事長蔡嘉峻蔡董事長國家電影及視聽文化中心楚明遠董事長公共電視基金會胡元輝董事長中央社胡婉玲社長行政院主席總署公務預算處王淺凱專門委員謝謝"},{"start":1936.021,"end":1944.988,"text":"那我們現在來處理114年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算解凍書面報告案第一案至29案請宣讀"},{"start":1947.738,"end":1968.029,"text":"1.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議277預算凍結書面報告請查詐案2.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議6.預算凍結書面報告請查詐案3.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議9.預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":1972.091,"end":1986.881,"text":"四 文化部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送影視及流行音樂產業局決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案五 文化部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送影視及流行音樂產業"},{"start":1991.531,"end":2011.261,"text":"決議二預算凍結書面報告請查詐案六文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第十九款第四項決議一預算凍結書面報告案請查詐案七文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第十九款第六項決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2014.502,"end":2038.499,"text":"八 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第十九款第九項決議一預算凍結書面報告請查照案九 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議二七八預算凍結書面報告請查照案十 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議一委辦"},{"start":2040.014,"end":2053.913,"text":"委辦會預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十一文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部決議八預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十二文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議"},{"start":2055.214,"end":2071.909,"text":"減送該部決議時預算凍結書面報告請查詐案13 文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議17預算凍結書面報告請查詐案14 文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第19款第二項決議"},{"start":2073.77,"end":2089.774,"text":"預算凍結書面報告請查詐案15.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第19款第三項決議3.預算凍結書面報告請查詐案16.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第19款第5項決議1.預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2095.456,"end":2107.752,"text":"十七 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議四 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案十八 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議十六 預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2112.819,"end":2138,"text":"十九 文化部函為行政法人文化內容測定院一一四年度預算決議檢証決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十 文化部函為國家電影及視聽文化中心一一四年度預算決議檢証決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十一 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢証該部決議二預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2142.003,"end":2164.955,"text":"二十二 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議五綜合規劃業務預算凍結八百萬元書面報告請查詐案二十三 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議七預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十四 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議十三預算凍結書面報告請查詐案"},{"start":2170.037,"end":2186.677,"text":"二十五 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部決議十五預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十六 文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國立台灣博物館決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十七"},{"start":2187.518,"end":2209.802,"text":"文化部函 為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國立台灣史前文化博物館決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十八 文化部函 為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國立台灣文學館決議一預算凍結書面報告請查詐案二十九 文化部函 為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國立台灣文學館決議二預算凍結書面報告請查詐案 宣讀完畢"},{"start":2222.615,"end":2235.303,"text":"那由於現在我們委員未足三人喔所以我們這個預算的書面解的話我們就先暫不處理那接下來我們進行討論事項我們現在請李部長進行報告時間八分鐘"},{"start":2249.828,"end":2270.24,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家好還有各位我們的文化部的同仁大家辛苦非常感謝大院安排我們文化部在114年度預算凍結項目提出報告加上備詢114年度文化部預算凍結項目一共49案"},{"start":2271.881,"end":2292.43,"text":"總金額34億461萬2千元我們各項報告資料已經送到大院以下就凍結的重點項目跟各位報告文化部的本部業務費凍結30%那我們業務費幾乎影響到整個文化部的包括推廣文化平權"},{"start":2293.59,"end":2311.11,"text":"推動社會營造和地方創生支持博物館的內容開發影視音的發展文創產業的活絡還有文學的發展閱讀的推廣表演藝術和視覺藝術的扶持甚至於到國際文化外交都會運用到業務費"},{"start":2313.073,"end":2335.632,"text":"這筆預算凍結的理由是文化部的黑槽計畫支持聚集淋浴攻擊我在這裡再次跟委員報告文化部所有的補助或者投資都是很嚴謹的按照相關辦法來進行由委員會在審查 一切都符合規定我們將來也會以這個精神繼續鼓勵很多元的題材的創作"},{"start":2337.281,"end":2352.75,"text":"文化資產局的業務費凍結30%這筆預算直接影響到有形和無形的文化資產各種層面我們常常要跟時間賽跑來搶救文化資產"},{"start":2354.051,"end":2371.469,"text":"尤其以台灣的地理特質經常地震颱風許多文化資產在修復一刻立刻發生不能等我們的人間國寶也是他們多半年紀都已經很大他們的知識記憶的傳承非常急迫"},{"start":2372.33,"end":2386.587,"text":"所以我們都抱著不能失傳的使命來執行這些業務還有不易移植的專法沒有通過前我們也將持續進行相關的研究做好準備加速未來審議的公告期程"},{"start":2387.768,"end":2405.888,"text":"還有影視局的業務費也被動30%現在是台灣影視因發展產業的關鍵時刻這筆預算對我們的影視因產業發展人才培育都非常重要像是金鐘獎、金曲獎、金鷹獎等等還有電影國片的推廣"},{"start":2407.61,"end":2417.042,"text":"國際專業人士的交流都會利用到這筆預算我們會持續努力推廣業務健全整個台灣影視音產業的生態系"},{"start":2419.345,"end":2442.124,"text":"傳統藝術中心的業務費被凍結30%台灣的傳統藝術是非常有辨識度的文化我們除了一直在培育人才鼓勵創作創新展演我們也致力於推廣和國際交流培養更多新興的觀眾我們會持續努力特別是向下扎根扶持兒童劇團讓台灣的傳統藝術傳承下去"},{"start":2447.711,"end":2469.005,"text":"國美館跟它所屬的業務費用也是凍結30%這筆預算影響到文化外交和在地深耕國美館作為國家級的美術館長期以來扮演和國際藝術交流的橋樑生活美學館則深耕地方就像文化部的微學館把資源送到地方"},{"start":2469.665,"end":2482.915,"text":"服務新住民、兒少、高齡等族群推動文化平權我們將持續努力深化國家藝術發展保障地方文化的禁用公益中心的業務費被凍結50%"},{"start":2486.358,"end":2512.548,"text":"台灣的工藝文化面臨人力老化在技術傳承、行銷推廣方面缺乏足夠的資源所以我們編列預算推動健全台灣工藝產業的生態系我們會持續努力吸引人才投入工藝、培養消費人口強化工藝產業的發展台灣Plus凍結了30%台灣Plus成立到現在快4年"},{"start":2514.957,"end":2534.471,"text":"他們非常努力希望把新聞和節目都做好把台灣觀點和故事傳播到全世界除了傳統方式之外現在台灣plus也利用社群媒體將內容推廣出去也跟國際合作授權節目到國外頻道播放"},{"start":2535.091,"end":2558.999,"text":"不斷開拓新的新聞主題報導加強CNN Fox News等國際媒體的露出雖然這一路上跌跌撞撞台灣Plus始終做出了一些成績漸漸獲得國際肯定他們會繼續努力製作優質的內容傳向世界公共電視凍結25%其實從國際的標準來看台灣的公共電視預算非常少"},{"start":2564.221,"end":2589.976,"text":"但是公共電視最近來的成績大家有目共睹不管是製作出非常優質的劇集節目現在公視將台灣plus納入經營甚至還增加一個兒少頻道的經營他們的任務更加重大在新聞和節目的直播上他們有一套專業的準則和程序他們會持續努力製作"},{"start":2591.363,"end":2605.89,"text":"更好的節目最後是視覺及表演藝術的策劃與發展凍結10%這筆預算直接影響到我們的表演團體視覺藝術家青年藝術家等等到國外"},{"start":2606.61,"end":2627.484,"text":"未來我們會持續努力投入視覺藝術和表演藝術的正向發展並落實公共藝術政策,營造多元豐富的藝文環境我個人在這裡要非常感謝這一年來我們的在教文會的昭偉、范雲、萬美玲還有各位委員對我們的照顧"},{"start":2628.425,"end":2643.32,"text":"其實預算在我們委員會當初只被刪減2000萬元動5億後來到了大院才會被刪到11億還有被動34億但是我們的同仁還是很努力的"},{"start":2644.641,"end":2663.995,"text":"並沒有因為這些刪除而工作更減輕反而是更加努力所以今天希望各位委員讓我們可以解凍也非常感謝你們幫忙排第一個以上檢要報告再次感謝各位委員懇請各位委員同意凍資預算謝謝大家"},{"start":2667.807,"end":2683.76,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝李部長的口頭報告那我們現在先來處理114年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算節奏書面報告案第一案至29案那我們在場委員會共同那我們現在決定均予以被查提報院會"},{"start":2684.901,"end":2708.132,"text":"好那我們現在來進行綜合詢答每位出席委員質詢六分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘立席委員質詢時間為四分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午十點三十分委員若臨時停案也請於上午十點三十分前提出並於本會委員范雲委員質詢結束後進行解凍的專案報告案及臨時提案的處理"},{"start":2713.594,"end":2718.197,"text":"處理提案時,若提案委員及連署人均不在場,原例不予處理。"},{"start":2751.85,"end":2774.808,"text":"委員好部長好進入質詢前我想首先還是要跟大家說明一下為什麼本週的議程直到禮拜一才終於正式決定那這其實就跟黨團簽預算解斷不附議同意書的進度有關那本來預期上週五就能確定各黨的同意可以同意"},{"start":2775.368,"end":2801.304,"text":"解凍案的那個不復翼那畢竟早日審查這個解凍案其實是大家的共識那民進黨當然沒有反對的理由那同時也是國民黨在本會期每次質詢都強烈要求你們要趕快送出這個解凍案的那可是在國民黨上個禮拜五下班後才簽出不復翼的同意書那"},{"start":2803.987,"end":2827.415,"text":"這個禮拜一又把不附議書抽回那直到昨天教委會才正式收到公文說他們同意不附議的同意書所以確定這個今天可以來解凍文化部的預算其實是考量到諸多的不確定性那所以本席才會用這個黃牛的專報來當預備的議程我想透過這個機會跟大家說明一下"},{"start":2831.936,"end":2848.754,"text":"文化部我們的預算解凍案49案那其中有29案就是要求提出書面報告20案是要提出專案報告那剛剛我們書面報告已經處理完畢那我們等一下來處理所謂的專案報告的部分"},{"start":2849.435,"end":2869.653,"text":"那我想total剛剛部長也有報告我們這次的解凍案的總金額是34億其中有5億2400多萬是在委員會凍結的那其他的28億8千多萬是在院會被凍結的所以其實想到這個就覺得說其實我們"},{"start":2871.397,"end":2896.634,"text":"今年度教育委員會在審查預算的時候其實我們是零案保留也就是說我們沒有一個任何的預算案是要進到協商程序那這是我們不分黨派所有教育委員會的最大的共識而且花了一整個會期努力的討論努力的這個大家研究之下的結果可是換句話說在院會被凍結將近29億的預算"},{"start":2902.597,"end":2924.566,"text":"這個本委員會同意的所以這個其實我們是覺得很當然對這個過程覺得很不滿那當然今天我們還是要呼籲一下我們一定要無條件攜手來支持這個解凍案全數可以解凍那第二點我是希望大家能考量是說文化部除了預算被凍結了34億另外我們還被刪掉11億那"},{"start":2929.008,"end":2953.789,"text":"不只文化部的宣傳費被刪掉作為第四權的公共電視喔台灣Plus也被刪了2.4億那中央社也被刪了1600萬喔所以連最基本的文化部的事務費、旅費、水電費這些行政的必要資源也都刪了5.9億所以今天處理的解凍案其實就算是委員會"},{"start":2954.85,"end":2983.997,"text":"解凍的部分我們也希望說大家能夠評估綜合評估我國這個文化預算的整體損失然後做最大程度的給予解凍因為其實也是解一時的燃眉之急而已好 那我想針對剛剛部長其實當然也有提到說在報告有提到說今天面對這樣的解凍的那個態度是不是你再請你說明一下跟所有的委員做一些呼籲關於今天的解凍案"},{"start":2987.163,"end":3010.19,"text":"謝謝委員其實我剛一直強調本來我們在我們的委員會裡只被三兩千萬然後動五億左右我本來以為這樣子一個是蠻合理的後來得到這樣一個結果那其實這個結果對我們來講影響太大譬如說我們每一個管所他的錢都用在一些像業務費這種都是一個水電清潔保全景觀等等還有"},{"start":3011.71,"end":3036.292,"text":"我們很多的錢如果在不解凍的情況下在8月之後就完全沒有辦法營運了還有一些是跟國際簽約這些合約我們也沒辦法付款其實我講一個蠻實際的就是當我們被刪以後被凍以後其實我們有些活動已經透過企業募款才能夠出去因為"},{"start":3037.62,"end":3061.698,"text":"所有的活動都從去年就開始簽約所以我們不可能等到錢下來所以我們開始跟企業募款包括在台中那場跟龐貝都的一個展覽我們也是透過企業募款所以講到這裡我就覺得說我們大家都很努力所以請求大家一定要把這個錢要給我們不然我們八月份以後真的是會停擺"},{"start":3063.072,"end":3090.088,"text":"當然啦剛剛部長有提到其實我們所有的這個所謂的文化部轄下的藝文管社也都被無差別凍結了30%那當然今天因為時間的關係我沒有辦法一一請這個藝文管社這些館長或主任上台那可是我想還是要請部長代表說明如果這30%的業務費沒有順利解凍的話那這些管社的影響部長"},{"start":3092.475,"end":3109.686,"text":"其實每一個管事他都有一定的功能譬如說有一些是保存一些很重要的史料他需要的經費還有就是他每一檔每一檔的活動都排下去如果你這個錢不給的話我們那個檔可能要縮減然後對民眾來講他會覺得我們一直在變動其實說穿了"},{"start":3114.278,"end":3128.785,"text":"文化部的預算非常的緊他每一筆錢都用在剛剛好所以而且全世界的國家都會把錢用在文化部所以為什麼我們這次文化部被砍這些錢或者動這些錢整個文化界會覺得非常"},{"start":3129.673,"end":3145.934,"text":"那個驚訝就是因為這個錢尤其是這些管所都分布在每一個縣市直接跟每一個地方上每一個人的禁用是切身關係的所以我剛才解釋了每一個管的要付的錢"},{"start":3147.296,"end":3156.182,"text":"你聽起來好像說保全 清潔什麼要那麼少錢包括薪水 很多都是我們的外部人員基本的那個維育費用啊對 這個都發不出來那我這樣講其實是真的所以希望大家給我們趕快過好 那我們再來先請教一下公共電視胡董事長"},{"start":3164.747,"end":3191.615,"text":"就公共電視跟TimePlus的預算遭刪除跟凍結的數目相加總共有十億多想要請董事長說明就少了這些預算在目前為止在目前為止就你在媒體經營上遇到什麼樣的困難跟挑戰還有就是另外就你服務與這個媒體跟學業的學界的專業也請你說明一下就什麼叫做政治與媒體互動的必據原則"},{"start":3194.864,"end":3214.649,"text":"謝謝委員的關心這一次我們在凍結的部分台灣plus大概有四億三千多萬那麼在公視小公視還有台語台的部分大概凍結了有六億三千多萬那這些比例呢事實上對我們影響是很大的"},{"start":3215.089,"end":3243.108,"text":"那以舉例來講我們幾乎所有要新開發的項目因為這樣的凍結我們都很多都已經把它暫停或者取消那對立場的業務來講其實它會構成很大的一個影響就是說我們很多的作業您知道影視的產品它是分年期在進行所以我們對於在未來要如何進行下一期的作業我們都非常謹慎所以這一塊我們要小心那有關於這個必具原則的部分謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":3245.289,"end":3264.217,"text":"因為一般運用到媒體領域最簡單的說法就是因為媒體跟政治力的關係非常密切但是因為這樣的密切所以他需要政府對於媒體有一定的尊重跟這個保障他的自由所以在這個角度上來講就好像類似我們的幣"},{"start":3265.197,"end":3291.435,"text":"手臂看起來就避懼之遙但事實上它一定要有這樣的一個距離來保持政治跟媒體之間敏感的那種微妙關係對公共電視來講尤其如此因為任何一個作業的副作用它是很微妙的所以這種政治上的避懼原則對我們來講也是全球民主國家的公共媒體都在重視的一個基本原則跟慧恩報告一下好 謝謝董事長的說明所以就是說"},{"start":3292.296,"end":3302.499,"text":"其實這個不能用政治去干涉剛剛部長在報告的時候有說不能用政治去干涉我們這個劇要怎麼樣做這個劇不能這樣做對不對這個某個程度就是我們媒體跟戲劇這個的角色是這樣"},{"start":3311.581,"end":3339.22,"text":"就是說政治跟媒體其實這個距離其實就是一個手臂的距離可是這個手臂的距離雖然不長可是它確實是有一定的距離對不對其實那個自從黨政軍退出媒體之後我個人在這些年當評審從來沒有人干預過要選哪一步或者怎樣新聞要怎麼報這點外界一直誤會我們這點做得非常好"},{"start":3340.06,"end":3368.495,"text":"就至少我個人的經驗從來沒有干預過任何一個戲任何一則新聞我實際上在最後才看到哪些戲要拍通過了我們的補助等等這點是我在這裡保證我們其實這方面從戒嚴以後解除戒嚴以後走到今天算是一個自由民主的國家所有的媒體都謹守分寸文化部也絕對謹守分寸不會去干預到跟政治意識形態等等都不會干預"},{"start":3369.455,"end":3385.971,"text":"所以因為這樣被成為凍結的理由其實我們會覺得其實是非常的不合理啦好 另外30秒的時間不好意思就是說跟部長討論的是說在台南喔這個國家美術館籌備處揭牌的那天我們包括陳承波啊"},{"start":3387.372,"end":3404.671,"text":"郭雪狐在內很多台灣的前輩藝術家的後代都有共同簽署這些前輩藝術家的作品的捐贈的這個典藏的意象那其實這是台灣人的榮幸也是台灣人的幸福喔那可是我們現在遇到一個很嚴重的問題是說就典藏空間不足"},{"start":3405.231,"end":3434.024,"text":"那新成立這個台南國家美術館的庫房其實非常的不足所以我們為了解決這個問題文化部有決定要在台南首府大學的這個退場的這個校地要興建一個聯航聯合的典藏中心那也編了一筆預算總共一億多那可是要做清洗的規劃可是這個一億多現在被全部刪掉那請問部長因為面對這些珍貴的藝術品那這個經費又被刪掉那你打算要怎麼應付"},{"start":3436.325,"end":3457.258,"text":"這點其實我們很著急因為很多很多前輩藝術家都在這幾年宣布他們願意把他的後代願意把他的父母親啊或者祖父母的精彩作品捐給我們我們必須有責任保存所以我們其實如果還沒有拿美管之前我們就不太夠"},{"start":3458.399,"end":3480.114,"text":"然後每蓋一個這個管設要非常長的時間規劃到設計到蓋那這點真的是我們心裡很著急只能去盤點現在現有的空間看能不能夠保存或者甚至於有一些還是保存在家屬那一邊他們用他們的庫房再保存我們付錢這樣子"},{"start":3481.215,"end":3488.64,"text":"好 那就期待明年再續編把這個先行規劃再把它做好好 謝謝部長 謝謝董事長 謝謝謝謝主席好 我們再來請郭育晴委員謝謝主席 有請部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":3515.267,"end":3534.68,"text":"委員你好部長早安本席現在要質詢的其實不單純是黃牛上面的一個問題而是是否有所謂的境外的中資要透過港澳的空殼公司來到台灣來主辦相關的一些藝文的活動因為這一陣子我們接收到不少的"},{"start":3535.2,"end":3550.519,"text":"相關的一些陳情喔那我們當然也會擔心像類似這樣子的一些藝文活動它會有所謂的壟斷票源規避法規甚至會破壞我們對這個文化的治理跟消費者權益一些重大的一些漏洞啦"},{"start":3551.039,"end":3570.575,"text":"那當然我們接獲到他們的成形是以近期Ling-On的這個見面會為例那他的主辦單位是超級娛樂澳門文化傳播有限公司那這個活動呢他也宣布是在5月10號禮拜六才要在台灣正式來做這個售票"},{"start":3571.155,"end":3590.422,"text":"但是目前其實在網路上我們已經看到有很多的中國相關的一些境外的平台已經在預售大量的高價的票券甚至還可以附加選位或者是加價的一個服務那這樣子的一個做法其實是完全跳過台灣的票務的系統跟管道啦"},{"start":3590.902,"end":3611.948,"text":"那我想這是不是也會讓這個文化部原本應該有的所謂的監管的這樣子的一個功能會失去這樣子的效果那講白一點就是消費者其實他沒有的選擇那也沒有辦法保障自己的一個權益那我們的藝文產業是不是也有可能被這樣子的一個境外的資本牽著鼻子走那這是我們比較擔心的"},{"start":3612.788,"end":3623.947,"text":"過去其實我們碰到一些黃牛的部分大部分是用搶票的程式搶票的程式然後再來再釋放到網路上去做這樣子的一個轉賣但目前呢"},{"start":3625.031,"end":3652.839,"text":"我們都是用這個文創法的第十條之一來處罰跟開罰但是效果當然是有但畢竟還是抓到的部分可能還是有限那以我剛剛講的這個目前5月10號即將要來做這個見面會的這個售票的這樣子的一個狀況他如果他的操作是完全發生在境外我們是根本監管不到那如果發生了所謂的消費者的一些糾紛那"},{"start":3654.899,"end":3683.589,"text":"會不會也申訴沒有任何的管道沒有任何的保障這形同這個權益喔都是真空的一個狀態那我們知道其實文化部從去年的12月開始我們就要推廣所謂的票券的實名制那也跟六都有開過會議但針對這個萬人以上的一些大型的活動來做相關的一些補助喔但如果從這一次的這個事件來看針對境外主辦繞過正規的售票甚至大規模的黃牛化的一個行為喔"},{"start":3684.389,"end":3687.913,"text":"我們文化部要怎麼正視這個問題我們怎麼補上這個缺口那將來是不是也會主動跟這個投審會還有陸委會來成立跨部門的一個集合的一個機制請教部長好 謝謝委員問這個問題因為基本上"},{"start":3702.423,"end":3712.155,"text":"這個這次的事件真的是的確在過去沒有發生過我們也展開非常清楚的去了解像那個易上有限公司他本身是在台灣負責一些活動"},{"start":3716.135,"end":3742.45,"text":"然後另外那一家超級娛樂他是一個澳門公司他負責在境外負責找一些藝人的聯絡所以我們就去找經濟部來詢問超級娛樂並沒有在台灣設立分公司或子公司也沒有辦法得到他的股權結構所以他本身在台灣是不能經營這個的那根據我們這個文創法第十條之一我們文化部所管轄的這個"},{"start":3744.605,"end":3748.789,"text":"活動是非常具體的定義在有音樂 戲劇 舞蹈"},{"start":3751.144,"end":3776.588,"text":"這些形式的表演中間發生這種黃牛事件那這些事情我想委員知道我們這些年來已經花了很大力氣在阻止這個事情所以部長的意思是說在台灣正式售票是由益尚公司來做主導那也就是說現在目前粉絲在網路上看到的境外的售票的部分是不受保障的是這意思嗎"},{"start":3778.249,"end":3799.831,"text":"應該這樣講 因為我們對於藝術公司在這邊辦這個活動見面會也好 其他會也好我們可能要呼籲網路上叫大家不要去買這個網路上販售不明票券可能會是一個詐欺之外我們還有一個社會秩序維護法可以用來作為一個消費者權益的保障"},{"start":3800.762,"end":3822.733,"text":"那至於環牛票本身的檢舉案我們會看他這個個案來處理不過委員問到這個問題我覺得的確是一個灰色地帶因為我們不知道就是剛剛我所提到的這個超級娛樂澳門文化傳播公司雖然這個藝商公司是跟我們文化部來提及這個屬於澳門就是剛剛講的這個超級娛樂"},{"start":3824.694,"end":3850.78,"text":"她雖然沒有介入到票券的一個處理她是處理藝人的部分但我們怎麼知道說藝商公司跟這間公司有沒有相關聯性在網路上來做直接黃牛就直接檯面化了啦這個部分我們是不是應該要更嚴謹的去查核然後再來剛剛有提到所謂的粉絲見面會喔或者是我們現在其實規範的其實沒有包含粉絲見面會但是這個沒有見"},{"start":3851.44,"end":3872.967,"text":"但這個其實是蠻大的一塊需要被約束 需要被查核的一塊我們的法規是不是應該文傳法要把這個類的部分的藝文的相關的表演的活動因為粉絲見面會當中其實還是會有表演的性質在裡面這個部分是不是應該之後也要與之俱進的一個來修法"},{"start":3873.929,"end":3899.641,"text":"當初我們設立文創法其實是本來是都是在鼓勵文創事業後來是因為黃流發生之後把它定在十條之一但是我剛剛有提到我們一直侷限在音樂戲劇舞蹈的正式表演那剛剛衍生出來非常多為了要吸引粉絲的見面會啊簽名會啊或者怎樣怎樣這些可能是社會秩序維護法之外我想我們"},{"start":3900.501,"end":3916.394,"text":"因為我們也擔心這些所謂的有中資背景的一些平台他們其實是會繞道來做操作等於是他們繞道做這個所謂的票券上的一個販賣的一個銷售掌控的一個操作所以這個部分這個灰色地帶我們想這個文化部可能我們還要再加把勁來杜絕"},{"start":3918.636,"end":3932.483,"text":"也就是說來保障更多的消費者的權益因為可想而知就算他是5月10號開始正式由這個藝商公司來做開賣的一個動作但可能在之前已經有很多人是在網路上用加價的方式來選位來做這樣子的一個"},{"start":3935.865,"end":3955.111,"text":"到時候如果真的產生所謂的消費者的糾紛那這個意商公司他可能講說這個不關我管啊這個其實是境外的這個公司的問題啊是你自己活該上當啊那如果這樣子的話其實在法規上的規避我們其實無法可管的一個情況之下其實就有可能會發生很多類似的糾紛這個部分我們文化部再來研議好嗎"},{"start":3956.076,"end":3962.439,"text":"沒問題我們再來去演繹像他這樣的行為好那這個時間有限我想這個最新的一個媒體報導就是川普他再次的拋出相當強硬的一個政策就主張對所謂的境外製作的一個電影要苛徵百分之百的一個關稅來保護好萊塢跟這個美國本土的一些內容的產業"},{"start":3977.105,"end":3999.415,"text":"但針對這一點我們有沒有因應的方法因為現在其實有很多的台灣的一些戲劇的一些作品或者是影音上的一個作品其實我們都是到美國去取景或者是跟美國相關的一些合作跟發行那也有很多部的戲劇或者是類似的這樣子的一個作品是跟這個ODT平台來做合作那如果說這類的作品將來也可能會面臨到這個部分的一個課稅的重稅的部分"},{"start":4004.557,"end":4020.145,"text":"我們會不會失去國際的競爭力我們有沒有因應之道其實基本上美國電影來台灣的比例遠遠高過我們台灣電影去美國的比例我們大概這五年大概只有五部電影去到美國但是未來的確會有很多國際合作"},{"start":4022.126,"end":4034.5,"text":"還有就是剛剛講OTT才是更嚴重譬如Netflix它大部分都是在國外拍那我們已經其實我們這幾天已經進行了一個重新盤點所有未來的可能因為川普講這個100%之後他"},{"start":4037.023,"end":4065.182,"text":"附帶的其他細節包括OTT或者是合拍等等他還沒有講出來但是我想我們整個文化部因為不只是在那邊拍才叫做這個作品他有可能有很多的後製有可能很多的其他的部分其實都是在那個地方做的包括動畫在台灣後製也蠻多所以剛剛委員講的這些東西我們已經在盤點各單位我們自己部門未來萬一有新的狀況發生我們有些因應之道"},{"start":4066.175,"end":4082.122,"text":"所以其實如果我們現在開始來做盤點其實也不能做個靜觀其變因為我們永遠趕不上這個川普他隨時說的這些變化所以可能要隨時都要Ready好 隨時準備好好 那今天因為時間的關係就問到這裡謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝 謝謝郭雨琴委員 部長請回我們接下來請劉淑冰委員"},{"start":4103.464,"end":4106.43,"text":"劉媛你好你好"},{"start":4115.543,"end":4137.356,"text":"想要跟部長就是溝通一個很重要的問題我們現在立法院的立法委員來這邊針對凍結預算的部分要做質詢等等的是我們的法定職權因為在立法院的在預算法當中說了立法院如果在針對審訊預算當中有一些疑義的時候是要請"},{"start":4138.857,"end":4164.517,"text":"透過凍結預算的方式請行政部門或是來做專案報告這部分是我們的法定職權是吧是當然是對所以這邊有一的部分我覺得這非常好所以有一的部分我們現在看到的是剛才我有聽到部長您提到說文化部隊公管集團都沒有下一些政治上面的指令我覺得這是非常重要的事情對吧"},{"start":4165.745,"end":4194.924,"text":"你們沒有下政治的指令就是要怎麼樣對 我們文化部針對包括中央社也好或者是剛才講的公廣集團也好我們絕對沒辦法下指令好 這樣非常好但是下面的公廣集團或是中央社有遇到有問題的情況例如說在Trump House這邊在美選的一個議題上面我知道你們有處理這就是說你們如果沒辦法透過新聞自律的問題呈現新聞自律來去達到效果的時候媒體或是立法院的監督事實上是有必要的不是嗎"},{"start":4196.185,"end":4224.474,"text":"是吧 是 沒問題那另外的包括在戲劇節目在那邊 聽海詠 公廣集團這部分 聽海詠這邊也有針對這個佛羅州的這個領事 羅領事他的夫人的事情這個史實也不同 所以在徵選的部分廠商如果是他沒有在徵選的過程當中對內容史實的部分涉及 應該做更多的偵查的時候立法委員或者是媒體這些報導事實上是很必要的 對吧"},{"start":4225.953,"end":4236.655,"text":"講到這裡我要想跟委員報告一下最近聽到的從斯卡羅到聽海湧到幾個歷史劇都是我心目中最棒的"},{"start":4237.315,"end":4260.84,"text":"我覺得這個也蠻棒的而且包括他已經拍到台灣所有戲劇裡面最高的那個境界我不太知道為什麼民間會有一些人從歷史的角度去挑剔他不是不是因為這是有涉及到史實因為這個柏油車領事但是因為我自己是做電影出身的台灣的劇集跟電影能夠拍到這樣子我們要給他拍拍手"},{"start":4261.36,"end":4287.539,"text":"這部分我可以跟郭同學我們是要讓他好上加好部長你承認吧好上加好好上加好就是包括品質嘛對 品質我是覺得不錯但是我覺得好上加好如果有史實不符的部分真的要做一個更正因為他對後面的這個他的後代或是在對外交官的這個影響是非常大的他基本上他我們只要透過小說也好電影也好創作不能夠違背史實這是很重要的原則"},{"start":4289.642,"end":4305.189,"text":"它是歷史劇不是紀錄片基本上我們講那個小說也好我們講fiction就是虛構我們一定要接受那個虛構的部分但是如果你們再不要想到說可能要必須要做一些更正這邊部分它有涉及到史實的部分那這一部分我就繼續往下去看"},{"start":4305.649,"end":4310.292,"text":"因為這是今天是解凍報告齁在台灣Plus的這部分呢我們看下去它有一個擴散國際鏈的這個規劃當中呢可以看到齁它有提到的是這個如何加強台灣Plus的影響力那我們再看下一頁可是在這裡面當中呢並沒有針對它怎麼樣去擴展國際鏈結的這樣的內容的規劃包括在地區啊騎乘人力跟法規地方因為它也涉及到說像有些國家在"},{"start":4336.31,"end":4345.216,"text":"那這些還包括喬加拿大跟英法等國那請問這個台灣PLUS這邊有針對這些的國際鏈結的未來規劃地區期程這邊有做一下事實上的內容的一個了解嗎"},{"start":4352.083,"end":4371.588,"text":"有我是不是請直接請執行長講更仔細謝謝委員報告就是主要鏈接的部分有兩種管道主要的是在傳播的方式比方說傳播我們如何讓節目新聞內容能夠到當地去落地這是一種第二種是合作製作節目比方說我們的戲劇或"},{"start":4372.908,"end":4396.27,"text":"節目或者新聞合制像現在我們一直在跟日本韓國還有馬來西亞還有這個新加坡還有在英國方面我們都開始在做接觸那因為這些都需要預算的這個進度跟對但是你沒有提出來您的這個詳細的規模在你的報告書當中因為目前沒有辦法知道預算規模所以我那個具體還沒有辦法跟人家談判如果說能夠有具體的規模的話我們這期程是抓得出來沒有問題可以報告給委員的"},{"start":4396.67,"end":4401.292,"text":"那好你就是報告委員好多分析那我們繼續再看一下同樣是台灣Plus的部分在根據立法院跟審計部的審核的這個報告當中有這個通知說應該要將KPI調整為觀看次數影音觀看時數還滿意度還有就是說APP的下載的次數那你們這部分呢卻是把剛才四項當中第四項的APP的這個次數這邊把它刪除掉而且你們存現三項的那個這些次數滿意度等等的"},{"start":4425.785,"end":4437.715,"text":"都是累計啊可是這個產生的效果是你們從大概110年就把這些這些樹木的這個累計出來可是如果你沒有算到每年度的這部分的話它的效果是不彰的啊"},{"start":4438.715,"end":4466.937,"text":"包委員每年度都有算每年度都在成長可是你們在上面並沒有呈現出來我可以把資料再補給委員沒有問題因為每年度都在成長至於那個APP它本身是因為在疫情過後全世界國際媒體的趨勢不太要用APP作為收視管道因此我們改記國際常用的觀看次數觀看時數來作為統計那觀眾滿意就是公廣集團本身在自律還有在評量本身的這個公共性來講很重要的指標所以我們就符合國際趨勢因應來做調整來報請文化部核准"},{"start":4468.44,"end":4482.371,"text":"那如果你這邊應該要說明一下跟審計部跟立法院做一個說明但我們現在知道審計部可能要再做說明那另外一部分就是黃流票的這個地方黃流票的情況我們看到的是說在"},{"start":4484.333,"end":4501.852,"text":"因為特別是這個文創法嘛這邊的所有的藝文票卷可是有一些比較大型的活動等等藝文活動當中你們甚至涉及到流行音樂的部分對不對那流行的節目可是其他的內容為什麼沒有想要幫助沒有把它納入到所謂在實名制的這個部分呢"},{"start":4503.086,"end":4526.806,"text":"一些所有表演藝術都算吧 包括那個舞蹈只要正式的演出 音樂各方面都算啊沒有沒有沒有 你們現在在因為根據這個文化創意產業這個法海關你們的各個辦法當中不是喔並沒有是只針對 只針對流行音樂我希望能夠擴展到其他的領域上面尤其是有些熱門的國際性的像"},{"start":4530.149,"end":4555.041,"text":"像有些像大型的國際的這個舞台劇或者是知名的這個部分都是希望有的但他們應該也是有問題我希望能夠您承諾是不是可以再擴展到其他大型的這種的國際性的節目的需求原來我們的文創法裡面音樂 戲劇 舞蹈都算有列入那個法裡面對 但是你的辦法目前我希望它能夠擴展可以承諾可以擴展到其他的也是屬於大型的嗎是 我們再來考慮"},{"start":4556.977,"end":4576.663,"text":"因為我們看到你們透過的這個實名制的掌握部分有補助嘛那補助發現到有34場的情況然後包括甚至有實名制不只是有人沒有透過你的補助但是在其他的自己用實名制的這個效果倒是不錯那你們在做要杜絕黃牛票的"},{"start":4577.523,"end":4592.814,"text":"這有兩種方式有的是蘿蔔就是用的補助讓他在有一些讓他可以採取實名制但有些部分是在用棍棒就是要檢舉的那我們現在看到的是說有掌握到想請問一下去年的這樣子的關於"},{"start":4593.695,"end":4608.096,"text":"沒有申請到演唱會有申請就是演唱會但是他沒有採取實名制的這一部分包括在大巨蛋還有包括小台北小巨蛋或是高雄的小巨蛋這邊部分的情況他們有些沒有採取實名制你們知道理由是什麼嗎"},{"start":4609.484,"end":4630.834,"text":"因為實名制本身它的進場手續非常麻煩我們沒有辦法強迫它用實名制所以我們除了鼓勵之外其實文化部最近做的最具體就是跟各大場館比如大巨蛋、小巨蛋、南港表演場等等希望他們用租給對方的時候就用一些折扣"},{"start":4631.634,"end":4655.119,"text":"換句話說這個部分我們做的已經比過去有進步所以願意用實名制的表演越來越多然後也越來越多的場館願意用譬如小巨蛋用八五折來鼓勵他用實名制等等那剩下的部分如果他不用實名制我們就回到用黃牛去檢舉可是那個過程說句實話是用了很多人用非常麻煩的"},{"start":4656.219,"end":4664.605,"text":"這就是我想要問的部分啦因為呢在沒有做實名制的活動當中就有八千件的檢舉就想問你剛才說人力不夠那怎麼辦呢其實八千件檢舉裡面我可以跟委員報告我們必須從裡面去找他的資料看是不是真正有這個人從開始找資料到補件"},{"start":4677.253,"end":4705.231,"text":"到去平台確定他是誰再到地方上有警察來抓抓到之後罰他多少錢之後如果他不服的話他還可以行使訴願文化部對就是說這個方法其實已經把文化部搞到非常吃力最後我們在訴願開訴願委員會我有時候覺得黃牛我們如果不從原始來杜絕的話我們快是用抓他包括地方政府也一直哀哀叫人力不夠說"},{"start":4707.132,"end":4732.2,"text":"所以我想部長你也已經發現問題了應該就是朝向鼓勵的或是說像你剛才說的那個場館的這個節目活動場地上面就是合作部分對就是這樣子的部分那希望說您繼續往這邊的部分那如果是預算在明年度的預算當中去編往這邊我想我們的我們立法委員會做支持的因為這個地方才覺得公平性這邊的一個效果存在著好那就這樣謝謝好謝謝委員"},{"start":4737.145,"end":4757.836,"text":"好 謝謝劉淑冰委員 部長請回接下來請吳佩奕委員謝謝主席 我請文化部部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":4764.353,"end":4777.298,"text":"吳委員你好部長好國人呢對於黃牛票的查緝都相當的關心那我想請教部長因為依照我們文創法屬於文創產業的其實至少15項15項以上相當之廣泛現在有一種樣態是很多是國外的影集或電影的演員來台灣舉辦粉絲見面會像這樣類型的見面會屬不屬於是例如他是電影或電視產業相關的"},{"start":4793.604,"end":4808.645,"text":"你認為這一點我們完全釐清剛剛我也有講到文創法裡面限制要真正的表演舞蹈戲劇還有演唱會才歸文創法所管那你剛剛講到這種說見面會拍拍照"},{"start":4811.088,"end":4830.028,"text":"或者別的方式的見面他只能算是廠商在促銷增加他的粉絲的商業行為這真的不是屬於文化部的文篆法裡面規範的他應該是社會秩序維護法這點我們對文化部來講是非常清楚而具體的"},{"start":4830.816,"end":4835.598,"text":"這個我認為像針對這種影視電影的演員他相關衍生的這些活動裡面也包括有一些是表演我認為他屬不屬於我們文創法所歸納的範疇這應該是在文化部裁量認定的範圍之內也就是說法規並沒有限制但是在我們的裁量權之內所以我認為文化部應該要跟上時代"},{"start":4858.326,"end":4869.649,"text":"這種影視演員的粉絲見面會其實它數量越來越多尤其是很多是國外的特別來到台灣舉辦這對我們來講也是我們很重要的一個文創產業所以部長你知道最近有一個個案嗎這個個案現在就出現了有民眾發現可能疑似有黃牛票這樣的行為"},{"start":4881.252,"end":4882.034,"text":"部長你認為這能不能夠來未來研議納入我們文創法規範的範圍之內"},{"start":4887.639,"end":4913.722,"text":"目前我們的進度是按照原來的文創法裡面剛剛規定的是一定要有表演過程我剛剛一直一直在強調音樂舞蹈等等要表演過程才屬於文創法但是如果剛剛委員講到那個現象我們也可以接受個案的檢舉來做判斷那至於要修文創法這件事情是知識非常體大因為我剛剛一直在強調官司把黃牛這件事情是是部長你聽清楚我剛剛講的"},{"start":4914.443,"end":4925.887,"text":"所以我認為目前其實按照既有法規我們在認定裁量上如你剛所說的依個案來看嘛它裡面如果確實有表演的活動行為我們就可以納入文創法來規範目的是什麼文創法當初的設立就是為了來能夠去防堵黃牛票對不對所以呢我希望文化部"},{"start":4935.33,"end":4942.119,"text":"可以按照現行文創法的法規更去仔細的去分析跟了解我們現在這種影視產業所衍生活動的樣態倘若是屬於我們文創法的範圍我們應當在有黃牛票一律的時候就要開始來關注部長這可不可以做到"},{"start":4954.935,"end":4973.41,"text":"環流票本身如果它是一個還是回到剛才那個三頁行為它自己有票捐的話它違反的不是我們文創法它違反的是它三頁行為我們可以接受個別檢舉在檢舉中我們再慢慢去了解這個算不算文創所以在個案的檢舉當中如果你們認定它裡面的這個活動確實屬於我們文創產業相關的母花不就可以來關注嗎是不是這個樣子如果說它跟那個"},{"start":4982.517,"end":4986.14,"text":"那我就告訴部長我希望未來這些個案你們不要說還沒有開始了解個案就直接說這不屬於文創法的範圍你必須要了解嘛 如同剛剛部長所說那了解裡面的內容再來看是不是屬於文創法的範圍倘若屬於我們範圍文化部就當然要專心好不好譬如說簽名會有沒有唱歌啊 唱一首啊 兩首啊"},{"start":5002.751,"end":5026.685,"text":"等等我們會來了解我就是這個意思所以希望文化部要更廣泛跟細節的來了解除了個案以外黃牛票的查緝文化部給我們數字今年三月底我們總共收到檢舉案件是將近一萬件那最後呢這個處於文創法管轄範圍又完備是兩千多件這個比例大概就是四分之一也就是說四件裡面有三件是不符合我們的範圍的"},{"start":5028.266,"end":5040.298,"text":"那這個不符合當中呢有很多最大宗的你們是認為說他的這個資料不完備不全這個部分我們在行政的措施上面能不能透過再來加強的宣導然後讓民眾提供完備的資料讓確實有收到黃牛票影響受害的個案他能夠有一個申訴的空間"},{"start":5053.24,"end":5067.75,"text":"你是說我們好像只能加強宣導對啊我的意思就是說我認為你們宣導不足啊就是在這一萬件裡面有這麼大量的都是因為資料不全所以根本沒有辦法申訴跟救濟"},{"start":5068.49,"end":5078.464,"text":"那這個當中有可能是可以救回來的個案有可能民眾是真的因為黃牛票而受害只是資料不全這部分我希望文化部跟我們地方政府可以再來加強好 那關於這個預算的解凍案我們今天要處理的解凍案總共有49案"},{"start":5085.214,"end":5102.248,"text":"那我覺得呢其中最嚴重的是我們當時在委員會只刪除了兩千萬凍結了五億但是跑到院會去了之後凍結立刻膨脹到了六倍刪除更是這個膨脹的數字更是達數十倍這個我認為簡直是亂山亂洞一通"},{"start":5106.258,"end":5110.502,"text":"這樣子的結果其實等於我們委員會中心主義整個心痛虛設因為我們在委員會是經過仔細的來討論的其中我舉兩個最不合理的這個公視今年被凍結5億凍結理由是因為台灣Plus"},{"start":5122.123,"end":5149.692,"text":"這個可以說是根本是走錯棚三錯筆 動錯筆太陽Plus有另外一筆預算那造成什麼的影響呢不只是公視台本身包括台語台小公視的營運一併受影響然後呢我們今年有一些新的節目新的動畫在預算解凍前到現在不敢來啟動那我們公視有很多相關的協力團隊例如跨年度的專案像什麼書畫等等這些到現在都受到影響那事實上真正"},{"start":5150.492,"end":5166.013,"text":"到院會去 這個當時提案的委員是國民黨陳玉珍委員然後後來由國民黨黨團提案 凍結事實上真正跟台灣Plaza營運有相關的是另外一筆預算嘛是發展國際數位傳播嘛這怎麼會這個理由跟預算科目根本倒不起來這我覺得非常的可惡"},{"start":5166.934,"end":5170.197,"text":"不應該出現這種錯誤那真正在這筆預算原列是10億最後呢被刪減跟凍結加走是6億多也就是有7乘57乘5都是要刪凍造成什麼影響這個台灣PLUS本來是由公司跟文化部簽約嘛到現在簽約了沒有 還沒"},{"start":5185.829,"end":5201.22,"text":"沒簽約會造成什麼影響Talent Plus不敢做新節目啊都還沒簽約怎麼去跟廠商簽約所以更不敢Talent Plus也沒有不敢去找廠商不敢簽約然後呢 這個我們每日Talent Plus總是要每日新聞常常新內容這些日常營運經費嘛結果甚至有由公視先行墊付的情況所以這個我認為立法院我們對於這個文化部預算尤其我剛舉的這兩筆我覺得最荒謬的"},{"start":5214.09,"end":5233.395,"text":"不成比例不合比例原則的煽動它造成的不是幾個數字的改變而是連日常的營運然後整個我們執行過去的這個節奏通通都受到影響今年已經過到五月了到現在今年度的計畫還沒有簽約"},{"start":5236.045,"end":5259.741,"text":"這可想而知受到的影響之大所以呢我希望台灣plus它的定位目前是我們台灣唯一對國際發聲的全英語平台我個人也因為台灣plus它有很多改進的空間但是我希望我們委員會在針對預算的動山的時候第一個理由跟預算科目至少要合一"},{"start":5260.822,"end":5276.014,"text":"怎麼會去出現理由根本跟預算科目不合的情況相當之荒謬 對不起國人對我們的期待第二個 要提出具體可改善的理由依我現在看到的情況去年對文化部這預算的動山造成的結果不是讓我們業務的進步成長反而是造成我們業務的阻礙所以我希望文化部你們也有責任未來再加強跟立法院 再加強跟國人的說明"},{"start":5288.504,"end":5296.009,"text":"在預算審查的時候就不只要跟委員說明我期待你們在預算審查的期間就可以更積極的向社會來說明為什麼文化部需要這些預算我們打算為國家台灣帶來怎麼樣的文化的進步不只跟委員說明要跟民眾說明因為他們是真正的民意不希望說之後再有已經預算被錯誤的被立法院動三之後"},{"start":5316.75,"end":5343.685,"text":"社會才開始了解到原來我們哪些的文化預算已經遭受到災難性的動山好不好委員說得非常好就是他三道的項目是不相同的那這個是非常荒謬的他去三道公共電視的所有頻道的錢你剛才講的就是真的最荒謬那我們文化部員努力的去跟所有本來對文化部"},{"start":5344.705,"end":5358.025,"text":"預算結構不太懂的民眾其實我非常努力的去解釋到底什麼是文化預算到底要怎麼用這點我們導致在這一次因為被刪減的這一次的機會 我們的確有努力對外宣導解釋"},{"start":5361.01,"end":5383.021,"text":"是那我的期待就是未來我們可以在審查的期間在委員會審查期間我們可以再積極的跟民眾來說明因為其實很多國人都相當關心我們的政府的預算到底是如何被運用他們也相當關心立委當然是要監督預算但是監督的理由要合理這是國人的標準所以我們可以更積極的向民眾來說明好不好好謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":5387.005,"end":5393.367,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝吳佩奕委員 部長請回接下來請葛如君召委諮詢好 謝謝主席 有請文化部理院部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":5416.38,"end":5421.224,"text":"委員你好部長好今天非常感謝趙偉排今天的相關的議程我想我們現在因應到關稅的變局我們的匯率大幅的波動台灣有可能在這個時間點真的是變窮了所以我想我們相關的預算相關的說明我們都積極的來進行"},{"start":5436.778,"end":5455.967,"text":"那再來呢我想要請教一下部長就也跟您說明一下其實大阪萬博呢已經在4月13號開幕那上一次呢本席有質詢王實施次長當時呢有跟次長一起呼籲我們的經濟部不要忽略了我們文化部也是有出錢出力的這個我們文化部呢這一次光是勞務採購就花費了將近兩千萬大概一千九百多萬"},{"start":5460.509,"end":5474.352,"text":"這個雖然文化部呢8月才要赴日參展但是既然錢已經花了就必須要達到我們台灣的文化宣傳的效果那既然經濟部好像我們是最近都沒有看到有更多的曝光那我想也許背後是不是經濟部忘了給還是不給機會沒有關係本席希望在此給部長30秒的時間宣傳一下萬博這個大阪萬博的展覽的這樣的一個文化部的參與啦"},{"start":5486.155,"end":5491.483,"text":"是不是請部長的重點的這個部分呢簡要的向國內外的媒體朋友還有有興趣的民眾做個簡短的說明"},{"start":5494.059,"end":5518.661,"text":"那時間是在8月2號到8月20號這個範圍內在兩個場地辦然後我覺得我們很不錯就是很早就去跟日本單地的政府接觸然後有些名稱我們就用我們單地的這個日本文化中心去接觸那幾乎是動員到全台灣所有藝文的可能性表演的 音樂的 演唱會還有這個"},{"start":5521.003,"end":5536.252,"text":"繪本漫畫幾乎動員到所有台灣能夠表達台灣文化的特色那台灣文化有什麼特色呢就是我們的包容 多元 融合我們的設計的Logo是一個史萊姆那樣的東西非常可愛它隨時可以"},{"start":5539.174,"end":5561.908,"text":"變形 然後吸收別人的文化等等我預期它會效果非常好至於你剛剛講的經濟部或者外交部其實我們都有聯絡希望它是一個整個團隊在做的好 很好我想除了萬博會以外大家持續期待也希望大家民眾也都可以一起參與本席認為另外一個非常需要好好宣傳的其實就是我們的國片"},{"start":5563.149,"end":5580.341,"text":"那部長您上任至今呢一直我是沒有機會跟您談談國片政策構想還有相關的撥話那前幾天有看到您出席這個國片的宣傳造勢活動在致詞當中您有提到聽到國片起飛這四個字心中不免泛起一絲感傷因為這句話您聽了很久"},{"start":5583.383,"end":5603.166,"text":"這個甚至在20多歲的時候變投身這個電影產業希望能夠讓國片真正的起飛我身為國粉這個不是蘋果的果是國片粉其實對於這樣的一句話其實也是非常感同身受的但是我想您就任也將近一年了其實文化部的電影年報的統計數據我們去年國片的市場是大幅衰退的我想43%的衰退真的可以說是大幅近乎腰斬"},{"start":5612.248,"end":5619.235,"text":"到2024年剩下263萬人次想請教部長您對自己對提振國片的表現打幾分"},{"start":5621.138,"end":5649.606,"text":"整體來講那個大家都知道關於電影的衰退是因為OTT平台起來以後大家觀影的那個習慣改變所以整體來講國片本身的確總營業額是下降但是它佔在整個台灣的電影的比例是增加的前年大概是佔全台灣的營業額是7%去年是11%這點我當然是非常焦慮所以必須由政府提供一些投資或者是輔導"},{"start":5651.347,"end":5670.419,"text":"讓這個產業不能夠消失沒錯我想不能說OTT這樣子我們就放手因為確實您講的這個結果也很棒占比是增加的但是我們還是要有中長期的規劃我們不要被這個短期的狀況打亂正腳那我們本席有向文化部所知想要了解部長對於我國片發展的中長程規劃到底是什麼"},{"start":5672.301,"end":5685.481,"text":"結果文化部的同仁是用一面A4紙拿來給我們做一個回應部長您可以看一下我不確定這份A4你有沒有看過這是我們的國片起飛的中長程規劃嗎"},{"start":5687.364,"end":5708.022,"text":"事實上我們其實非常驚訝裡面呢這個一共只有407個字我想您是電影人用這樣的一個方式來帶領國片起飛這會不會變成在您的任內變成口號我相信不會我是您的忠實影迷我剛剛也說了我是國粉我們不希望這種態度去影響我們的國片發展"},{"start":5708.763,"end":5729.802,"text":"文化部會後能不能提供一份完整的部長對於台灣國片發展的中長期規劃我相信你們有可不可以提供給本席辦公室不然這個407個字說是我們國片中長期規劃我覺得有點太精華了齁這個沒問題啊因為我們這個七點是一個大概的每一個項目我們有非常仔細的那個"},{"start":5731.3,"end":5759.061,"text":"甚至於輔導政策的調整那為什麼我們問的時候不能提供完整的不是 它太多了它項目太多我們很有時間閱讀因為這是我們的工作好不好請文化部同仁一起配合我事後把它提供我想接下來關稅的議題大家也很關心我想我們這一次的談判代表團帶隊的是鄭麗君副院長她過去也是前文化部的部長我們想要請教一下部長有沒有參與行政院對美關稅談判小組"},{"start":5761.446,"end":5779.151,"text":"這個部分真的是沒有因為文化產業在目前這一波裡面並沒有被列入但是因為最近因為川普的一句話我們就超前部署各部門已經開始討論未來有可能包括電影100%的這種進入美國等等這些我們就開始做一些預備"},{"start":5780.191,"end":5793.242,"text":"沒錯我想部長您應該也可以發現台灣對美國來講可以說是一個不折不扣的電影入超大國我們也幫忙整理了美國電影在台灣上映的情況這個數字琳瑯滿目2025年光第一季四分之一就99部收入也不錯美國說他們都沒有賺我們的錢我們賺他很多錢他賺我們很多錢在數位的在文化上面"},{"start":5806.893,"end":5822.963,"text":"結果呢我們台灣根本沒有賣過去我先講我要給這幾部賣到美國的拍拍手謝謝文化部支持但是我們今年還是目前為止掛鈴的但是這些數據都可以幫助我們的行政院在跟美國關稅談判的時候去講說我們台灣買你很多東西啊你買了你的文化啊"},{"start":5827.586,"end":5834.711,"text":"買了你的內容啊不僅如此啦我們就發現我們這一次的特別條例我們的執行部會裡面完全沒有文化部4100億裡面完全沒有文化部難道我們的關稅變局我們的匯率的這個波動就不會影響到文化人嗎就不會影響到文化產業嗎我想我作為一個再講一次我作為一個國粉我作為一個關心台灣文化的人我相信我們都很關心我想要請教一下"},{"start":5856.824,"end":5863.108,"text":"這個相關的這個特別條例我們能不能列入進去能不能爭取一下然後我們現在又看到有這個川普的這個電影稅要進來了我們中長期的發展裡面有一大堆都提到了這個拓展國外的"},{"start":5872.674,"end":5884.379,"text":"海外市場這個跨國合資合智全部都是在走這個路線啊那所以現在川普這件事情假設成真我們中長期規劃可能還要修改因為他來台灣做反而變貴了我們去跟他合作他可能不願意全部連電影都要美國製造了所以文化可能會遇到所有跟科技業電子業一樣的問題有沒有要做調整能不能去爭取一下列入特別條例"},{"start":5899.144,"end":5925.634,"text":"其實你講到這一點它這個真的會影響到我們整個產業2001年WTO美國電影全面進台灣的時候我們國片甚至於跌到佔全部電影的0.3%連1%都不到2001年WTO2003年的時候我們已經跌到1%都不到國片甚至於已經被消滅到2011年的時候"},{"start":5927.715,"end":5941.846,"text":"國變整個又復甦 佔百分之十六所以我在這裡要替台灣的電影人講話就是我們完全靠自己努力的突破這個所以您剛才講的是講到我的心裡的要害就是文化產業"},{"start":5943.067,"end":5953.778,"text":"並沒有被列入第一波所以我剛剛已經講到我們超前部署我們其實開過很多會就是開始把未來有可能跟美國之間涉及到這樣子的文創產業的一些可能發生的狀況更了解"},{"start":5958.562,"end":5982.555,"text":"上次我幫王十四次長向經濟部喊話不要忽略我們文化部我們幫你們向行政院卓院長喊話不要忽略我們文化部不要忽略文化為什麼因為這張圖我幫你整理了我們現在電子業科技業我們的實體貿易的第一大的對象是中國大陸第二大是美洲美國文化的情況一模一樣我們的電影的產業海外收入來源一樣"},{"start":5983.115,"end":5992.918,"text":"第一大是我們的中國大陸第二大就是美洲所以如果美國在關稅或全世界關稅有這個變動的時候我們的文化產業是會有變化的我們一起努力最後一個地方也還是要再請教一下部長最後一塊主題就是我們的主權AI我先非常謝謝文化部之前我們質詢說YouTube繁體中文出不來相信應該是文化部有去幫忙溝通一下現在修復了"},{"start":6010.883,"end":6036.33,"text":"雖然上不完美但持續改進真的非常的感謝但是我想現在的大語言模型AI的工具都有簡體中文覆蓋的問題因為他們讀了十倍甚至百倍以上的簡體資料我們凡中資料不足我在總質詢在許多部會都提到我們應該要有國家層級的AI訓練資料庫那速發部呢有著手在訂定所謂的台灣語料訓練資料庫的授權條款我想請教第一點"},{"start":6040.131,"end":6058.959,"text":"這個部長贊不贊同有這樣的一個AI訓練資料的資料庫贊成啊太好了那我想問速發部在著手制定這個台灣語料的訓練資料庫有沒有跟您徵詢文化部的意見有 而且我們已經開始進行整理文化部的東西其實非常多"},{"start":6059.959,"end":6080.775,"text":"我們其實還看到有一個寶庫叫做中央社其實中央社社長有跟我們來溝通說他有非常多的語料資料歷史的內容可是我們最近看到中央社的方向好像有點多頭馬車好像一下又說要做電視台一下又要做文化內容我想請教文化部部長中央社的定位到底要是什麼"},{"start":6081.909,"end":6099.544,"text":"中央社會作為一個歷史悠久的媒體它有兩個很重要的任務一個任務就是它本身的資料保存是非常完整的所以你剛才講到AI這個部分它的確是深負重任第二個它是代表國家的媒體它必須向國外發聲"},{"start":6102.503,"end":6128.531,"text":"國外的駐點 然後國外宣揚台灣的所有狀態所以中央社責任是蠻重大所以它到底是文字媒體 還是網路媒體它現在YouTube也做 還是電視台它現在好像說要做中央社電視台這個都太分散了 會不會力量不集中根據我了解 以前中央社就有做一部分YouTube大概是因為 目前大家在瀏覽的情況下還是很習慣看這種影音的"},{"start":6129.031,"end":6150.371,"text":"他只要不再違反我們本身中央社原來做的事情的話這個部分我不知道結果會如何但是我一再跟你跟委員強調中央社它最大的任務就這兩個嘛好 這個朝偉已經站起來了希望我們能夠一起加速國家級AI訓練資料庫的設立我希望文化部持續有跟速發部來交流"},{"start":6150.771,"end":6160.379,"text":"希望把交流結果三個月內以書面提供給本席我們真的非常關心最後提醒部長啦我們的公眾的錢好像下一頁不見了沒關係我們公眾的錢呢就是應該要給公眾公眾的錢公眾的知識我們的相關的資料歷史的內容文化的內容我們希望讓AI來訓練讓全世界的AI都有台灣語料台灣資料"},{"start":6175.872,"end":6191.242,"text":"當然也才會有台灣價值我們的主權才能夠確立這樣可以嗎是 文化主權應該是我們文化部最重要的一個任務讓台灣有文化主權的方式就是您剛才講的AI的內容這點我非常同意我們也會努力做謝謝 謝謝昭偉 謝謝部長謝謝葛如君昭偉 部長請回接下來請柯志恩委員"},{"start":6207.267,"end":6236.69,"text":"好谢谢我们请部长好有请部长柯委员你好部长好刚刚听到葛卫军委员问你有关中央社的问题显然中央社目前新任社长的一些未来的一个走向跟你当初刚刚所回应有关于中央社的终止跟目标是有一点点的落差不过这个部分我们等一下在审预算的时候在解冻案的时候我们再一一来做讨教"},{"start":6237.33,"end":6257.122,"text":"在没有进入我们这个解冻案之前我先用一个比较大的方向来请教部长我们看一下这个数据政府的文化支出各位部长你知道吗在十年当中实际上是增加一百亿的这个数据可以显示出来但是呢比较可惜的是占政府的总预算的比率是比较小的"},{"start":6257.642,"end":6273.706,"text":"是略降的所以说表示我们对文化这一块来说显然这十年来中政府的看重度不如我们所看到的接下来我们再来看一个而且通常来说文化部的预算很多是在作为奖补助的我们看一下从2013年56亿"},{"start":6276.787,"end":6280.048,"text":"到2024年可以增加到193亿它的征服是244%膨胀大概是3.45%我想部长看到这个你可以说因为很多的人事成本还有很多的技术都会膨胀这没有问题但是呢膨胀到3.45倍很显然我们的补助是逐年在增加的"},{"start":6299.375,"end":6318.414,"text":"好那既然在逐年增加当中我们就要问了我们要问的就是说这么一个大量的补助到底成效会在什么地方那我们就从很多不同的面向可以一一来去看部长可以给你看到近五年来我们休闲文化跟教育的支出大概是占家庭消费支出比率是下降的"},{"start":6318.934,"end":6329.297,"text":"也就是大家即使我們花了這麼多錢來做一些補助來做一些獎勵但是大家因為很多不同的因素我們對於這樣的一個開銷是下降的我們再往下更清楚了電影的參與率我們從2016年基本上是47%那中間當然是經過新冠肺炎的關係可是到現在大概是35.3%"},{"start":6341.32,"end":6363.44,"text":"所以这个身为电影人的小野部长你应该看得也非常的有感慨吧那川普对于这个好莱坞他前天特别提到了因为好莱坞的电影太多的因素了让他们的这个编剧啊一些工作人员大概是有两万多个人失业所以他提出了一个方法就是百分之百扣关税只要进到美国不是美国产的他就给你扣你建议这种方法在台湾吗"},{"start":6365.151,"end":6368.854,"text":"有機會嗎我們會不會這樣做嗎對啊我們去抵制好萊塢嗎沒有我是說川普就是大盜議會當然部長我也相信你不會做出這樣的建議我只是說川普為了救美國的電影產業對於國外進口美國的進入美國他做100%的一個關稅上面這樣的提告你說我贊不贊成是啊對啊"},{"start":6386.866,"end":6411.04,"text":"那可能川普不太懂電影因為電影本來是一個非常多元什麼這句話你不要讓他聽到因為你現在還在關稅時間來這個電影參與率然後往下他的確不太懂電影所以他才會做出這樣的一個說法你比他懂很多但是你看一下我們的文化參與率給了這麼多的補助除了視覺藝術比較調升之外你看其他的部分都是下滑再往下看"},{"start":6412,"end":6430.839,"text":"更不要说我们国外的艺文团体或是个人来我们这个十年当中场次大概少了一万多场再往下看我们的文化展演真的不管是场地少人口稍微增加一点点但是呢每百万民众享受的文化展演我们确实从189个变到154个"},{"start":6434.182,"end":6458.938,"text":"所以部长我这样子不断的这样子然后我们再往下看我们参加影展的补助你当然人次是增加了然后我们入选的也是增加了但是真正获奖的是下降了当然你也会告诉我就说因为获奖不代表什么只要能够入围就是得奖但是我还是要提出来我们有的这么多的补助这些是成效上面我们可以用一些数据来做一个佐证的"},{"start":6459.378,"end":6472.534,"text":"所以我们就要问这么久以来十年来到底我们的文化有了这么多的部分里面你身为一个文化部长你可不可以用很简单的方法你对于我们文化涵养的一个提升这十年来有所增加吗部长"},{"start":6475.177,"end":6501.95,"text":"我如果有文化涵養這個字眼我覺得我沒辦法回答你但是我沒辦法回答你是我們到底台灣的文化大家水準有變高這我沒辦法回答但是對於文化部來講努力要做的就是反而是就這個部分能不能提高民眾的參與文化的活動包括我們剛才講到我們有文化幣來鼓勵民眾去看表演我們有青年席次類似這種的"},{"start":6503.07,"end":6523.92,"text":"我们希望因为我给我给予的是2023年我希望到2024到2025年开始有文化币开始有很多你的政策特别是你在身份文化部长我希望这个人次还有这个季节可以增加因为这是代表一个我们的努力可以让民众更多的公众的参与但目前为止过去十年钱多了"},{"start":6524.6,"end":6543.332,"text":"但是呢显然参与度是逐年下降这才是一个我们需要去做很大的警讯的接下来我们要请教一下公示第七届董事长5月19号就要届满了但是呢像目前为止你的这个审查委员很早就出来了请问什么时候这个新的董建市名单会出来"},{"start":6545.645,"end":6567.245,"text":"委員問到一個 給我一點時間就是半年前我們就開始做這件事情 按照規定然後我們列出來的名單 希望它能夠被大家接受大家指的就是文化界 還有審查層接受所以我名單其實經過行政院同意之後 開始一一去邀約"},{"start":6568.686,"end":6587.997,"text":"在這裡我要跟你講一個我很心酸的心情就是本來所有人接到電話應該是高高興興可以當到這個董監事對不對委員你也知道還好啦沒有人很高興啦因為這都是一個非常辛苦的一個工作那現在目前結果是怎麼樣結果就是我要不到人啊"},{"start":6589.597,"end":6614.931,"text":"你現在邀不到人是不是我一個一個電話打去他家裡談理由是什麼理由就是他不一定會被選上啊如果我電話打去他就是的話我想我就一個禮拜內就把這個團湊起來所以很多人不願意這樣部分是因為他不見得會選上可能因為我們現在的審查委員會裡面有不同的意見非打電話然後再經過這樣子把名單都放出來然後自己的名字在委員會裡面互相來這樣去做處理的時候"},{"start":6617.812,"end":6625.556,"text":"為什麼他要是社會上很有名望的人為什麼要把名字排在上面那你怎麼辦呢因為我還是要提醒那現在怎麼辦我當然怎麼辦我就是一直求啊那你求到什麼時候我還是要提醒喔請放心5月19號就要接滿了對啊我現在只差一兩個啦"},{"start":6633.7,"end":6657.069,"text":"你現在差一兩個我求到現在為止你不曉得我多麼辛苦的去拜託他們說好那我們就來看一下吧因為我還是要提醒啊因為第七屆五月五號的時候公布五月九號就開審查會很短的時間而且你第一次審查沒通過你還有第二次到第三次每天就對這些人來說就像零吃一樣問題是過去就審查過好幾年啊是啦是啦"},{"start":6657.629,"end":6684.475,"text":"那个是多么羞辱的我多么期望这一次我们两党之间的派出来的议员让我一次就过所以呢我还是要提醒呢5月9号5月19号就马上如果没有的话我们真的有些时候不知道你有这么多努力还好利用这个时间让你讲出我的心酸事否则我们都会认为过了5月19号是不是要让原邦人马再继续来演任这个东西对很多人来说对公事来说公事上来这个董建士名单一向都是一个非常困难难产的是"},{"start":6686.396,"end":6691.718,"text":"這個層面啦所以你保證就是應該在5月19號之前應該會有個明朗的一個結果就對了只差一兩個而且我在這裡懇求所有的審議委員不要像過去一樣一直羞辱的方式去刪掉一些人那些人實在是很糗因為這些人都是社會很有名望的人"},{"start":6705.646,"end":6711.228,"text":"跟這個評審委員已經不斷在呼籲了我們很快再來提到那上次我有提到華氏為了要出租進行這個整裝那我真的是覺得目前來說是搞個大罷免那華氏在搞大搬遷為什麼我特別提出來因為大樓整裝必須要有試裝的許可但是因為台中星光三月的事件所以說引發很多人就需要有嚴格的再來審查但是這一次華氏被檢舉了"},{"start":6731.613,"end":6746.608,"text":"因为他们认为对照原始的设计图累积加罚的话可能会受到一个罚款这些还不包括华氏大楼的六七八楼为了要对外租赁然后开始要隔间所以说预估总经费要七八百万"},{"start":6748.15,"end":6765.767,"text":"这个部长我觉得这有点本末倒置的我们应该关心的应该是你的新闻你的节目制作等等那你现在又是搞租赁我相信胡董事长应该非常的辛苦了他为了要让华视起死回生他用了非常多的方法我相信你要租赁也是要减少华视的这样的亏损的我同意应该是这样子对不对"},{"start":6766.468,"end":6770.05,"text":"好然後我接下來把問完你可以移平來部分然後呢你看這一下來花費來說的話租金到底可以回到多少你這整個部分裡面來說到底真的對華市的虧損到底有沒有任何的幫助我還是要說第一季6800萬"},{"start":6781.838,"end":6798.343,"text":"这一年要到2.5左右亏损的原因到底什么时候可以来止血接下来很快因为等一下跟我们的东西有关然后呢我们也知道华氏不仅是为了要减损亏损了不仅有的新创公司有的租赁部分我现在只提出一个因为等一下我们马上就要解冻"},{"start":6798.883,"end":6819.455,"text":"你们所给我的这个部分当中呢对于新创公司上次我们花了很多时间来讨论但是呢你们虽然给我一些资料但是我还是要请求部长我先请问你我请公事提供新创公司未来三年的现金流量的预估风险管理的机制投资管理办法你觉得这合理吧提供这些应该合理吧"},{"start":6821.141,"end":6850.461,"text":"因為目前還沒有通過所以他沒有辦法寫出這個東西吧怎麼可能你要預估你成立一個公司你只要告訴我未來三年怎麼可以說沒有辦法這是一個預估雖然星創公司是華資投資51%公視49%但是公視占華視的股權83%所以不是只有你表象上裡面只有49%我覺得對一個星創公司來對一個公司的部分這個星創公司我覺得要求這些東西來做不是不解凍但是解凍要有前提就是我要看到這個"},{"start":6851.401,"end":6866.96,"text":"一個比較是可以讓我們覺得未來不要再困屬下去所以我只問部長合不合理嗎提供這些合不合理嗎應該他董事會都還沒有通過這個案子董事會還沒有通過但是你要跟我們講這個東西我們現在目前是凍結的"},{"start":6868.289,"end":6887.561,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個案子基本上來講是華氏的部分通過公視 您監理的是公視公視董事會還沒有通過而且公視董事會並沒有放在預算裡面所以你這個部分目前為止來說可是目前這是在我們的解凍案當中他沒有放在預算裡面"},{"start":6887.961,"end":6903.758,"text":"所以说呢这个部分里面好那我们现在只能说如果是这个东西提供的话如果要让这个部分来提供的话我必须要看到这三个我才有办法让这个新创公司的未来的一个发展我才有一个依据才可以有办法做一个讨论我觉得这个东西是算合理吧可以吧"},{"start":6905.467,"end":6932.337,"text":"我们接下来还有一个还有一个就是有关台湾Plus那个主席我知道后面来说的话我还是强调台湾Plus有很多人有意见等一下我们解动案也会稍微看到一些项目要合理完全同意因为我们在委员会里面对这个东西做了非常多的一个讨论我只说很多员工的爆料还有我们说看到的一些我死死的问题我必须很遗憾的说没有人在事后来跟我"},{"start":6933.397,"end":6959.003,"text":"報告這些狀況 到底處理的狀況是怎麼樣面對這樣子等下的解凍案我希望利用空檔的時間可以讓我多了解我們可以節省彼此的時間這一點應該是台灣Plus或是公視可以做到的 對不對好 感謝好 謝謝柯之恩委員部長請回我們在陳秀寶委員質詢後休息五分鐘好 我們接下來請伍麗華委員"},{"start":6966.389,"end":6966.71,"text":"好 有請部長"},{"start":6977.11,"end":7003.61,"text":"委員你好部長早部長在我們台灣原住民有一種文化叫做靈媒文化或者巫師文化我想你都很清楚那我要跟你講一個故事在過去我們有推動太空發展法那在這個法三讀通過之前呢也有在屏東旭海那邊三攝屏"},{"start":7004.691,"end":7031.409,"text":"有去做一個科研火箭的發射場域那當時呢2022年的7月我們在等待第一枚科研火箭升空那當時叫做科技部長錢瞻師長還有邀請很多人我們就在那個地方借了早上6點到8點的空域要等待那枚科研火箭發射"},{"start":7032.37,"end":7048.219,"text":"第一次我們從凌晨四點等到八點升空失敗就解散第二次的時候部長沒有來剩下前瞻司長我們也是從凌晨一直等到早上八點失敗就解散"},{"start":7049.119,"end":7075.355,"text":"那那個時候我就忍不住我就跟這個太空中心主任吳宗慶阿伯講說其實你們來到原住民的傳統領域應該要做一個敬天拜地這樣的一個祭儀其實這邊就有所謂的布林奧我說要不要試試看至少來到這個地方總要跟這邊的土地拜一下嘛"},{"start":7076.135,"end":7090.298,"text":"那他欣然接受所以第三次也就是七月十號的時候我們請到這一位張順之夫夫他就在五點多開始準備就在那邊敬天拜地好"},{"start":7092.628,"end":7117.579,"text":"6點12分一次升空那吳宗信 太空宗信阿伯他說飛得非常漂亮那我其實不是要在這個地方要告訴大家林美友多厲害我不是要在這邊怪力亂神而是說其實在原住民這樣的一個文化很珍貴但是視為卻很重要"},{"start":7118.659,"end":7140.355,"text":"到了2023年 我給您看第二個例子因為為了迎接去年2024是牡丹社事件的150週年為了迎接這個150週年 我協助園民會我們在愛丁堡大學有發現牡丹社事件的遺骨"},{"start":7141.135,"end":7153.98,"text":"那也在那個地方交涉他們也欣然的願意把這個遺骨返還所以呢去迎接的過程中你看這個照片中是我們牡丹社他們的頭目跟他們的靈媒"},{"start":7157.662,"end":7176.771,"text":"在那個地方做記憶當時這個愛丁堡大學的這位捷捧學主任他在旁邊觀禮這個Gillingwater他說這是很動人的經驗我可以感受到儀式對在場的所有人員而言有多麼的重要"},{"start":7177.991,"end":7198.782,"text":"那現在在屏東4月22到10月26呢 終於其實我們很多人一直在談這件事情我們怎麼樣去重視這一些靈媒所以終於在今年周春米縣長他有在屏東 屏煙那個地方辦了一個靈媒與他們的產地的一個特展"},{"start":7204.585,"end":7217.575,"text":"現場這一些就是碩果僅存的這一些靈媒那這個其實比起十年前是多的為什麼因為這一些年有很多年輕的靈媒"},{"start":7218.996,"end":7237.204,"text":"他因為具備有這樣的傳統身份他們很多是放棄工作像我以前在園民處我的一個同仁他就放棄工作因為他覺得一直在召喚他回去要接這個工作所以他就毅然決然的回去投入靈媒文化"},{"start":7238.28,"end":7258.448,"text":"所以在這邊我其實要講的是文化資產文化資產這一塊很重要那我們也看到這一些年我們一些文化保存者像去年正是新聞有一個阿美族的巫師記憶保存者叫阿比他在去年的七月過世"},{"start":7259.833,"end":7277.26,"text":"享年86歲那去年年底12月呢也有一個阿美族的巫師的一個保存者叫做Iba Agus 96歲過世一個一個凋零我們很擔心的就是說這樣的文化就要結束了嗎"},{"start":7278.345,"end":7293.538,"text":"有沒有年輕人願意接但是我們看到這樣的保存者其實不容易很困難雖然剛才屏東我們看到出現這麼多的靈媒在那個地方但是有做文化保存的是零 沒有"},{"start":7295.56,"end":7309.271,"text":"那為什麼 因為他們這個工作其實很重要像是我們所有的祭典其實都會想要請到靈媒出來去做一個祭儀他就很像現在我們也會在後面補一個宗教的禱告祈福是一樣的一個意思對傳統祭典 傳統醫療 心理的輔導等等"},{"start":7317.157,"end":7332.406,"text":"那在這裡他的文資身份就很困難因為他必須要跟著人才能夠被保存但是有一些東西像這個記詞它是古文言文其實我們一般人也根本聽不懂"},{"start":7333.166,"end":7356.702,"text":"那對於這些學習的學生來講他們也覺得很困難因為他們可能要用錄音的方式一直聽 一直背 一直問所以他們現在面臨的困難非常的多所以很難被認定文字身份那為什麼我們現在很在意文字身份因為政府會給予一些資源例如會有師徒制 給予徒弟那這樣子呢 對一些"},{"start":7357.603,"end":7367.753,"text":"把工作辭掉的人來講他就會增加他的誘因投入這樣的一個文化傳承我也看到去年監察院的教育文化委員會他們也有針對我們很多的族人給予這樣的一個陳情去做了這樣的一個建議報告"},{"start":7377.122,"end":7398.273,"text":"他們是希望說文化部跟園民會可以來討論原化保存的具體合作機制建立文資保存跟傳統智慧保護的一個整合平台所以這個部分我想問一下就是部長您對這個有沒有收到這樣的一個相關訊息那我們有沒有做什麼樣的一個回應跟預備"},{"start":7399.471,"end":7414.142,"text":"有就是屏東縣政府已經有送來一個案子一個研究計畫在5月會提送我們來申請委員剛剛講那個東西我個人是蠻感動因為無形文化資產尤其是剛剛講那個林美其實在"},{"start":7415.163,"end":7430.007,"text":"電影也好 小說也好已經開始被很多作家來開始描述但是因為我們鑑定無形無法資產的時候會組織一個專家學者那我覺得我們可能要打破這樣一個制度因為了解的人太少"},{"start":7430.527,"end":7455.129,"text":"包括剛才講的那個記文等等那文化部很願意來努力來研究這個部分看能不能來保存它我個人是覺得台灣最珍貴的都在這些信仰然後尤其是快要已經失傳的這些東西我覺得我會 我們來努力謝謝部長肯定積極的一個態度回覆那其實我在解凍報告當中也有看到"},{"start":7456.09,"end":7473.891,"text":"文資補查機制那你們也有提到說鼓勵優先提報補查的補助計畫我覺得這很好因為追根究柢地方政府他基於人力不足或專業不足其實他們要完成這件事情是很困難的那我常常講"},{"start":7474.992,"end":7483.44,"text":"我們地方的這些擁有文化智慧知識的這些人他不見得懂得行政機關的遊戲規則對他們來講很困難所以應該是由政府來主動積極的去找到他們協助他們那我希望說這樣的一個補助計畫能夠多加的宣傳推廣"},{"start":7495.471,"end":7513.922,"text":"讓需要的人可以用得到那您剛才有提到啊像這個全世界最多人看的哈利波特就是一個西方的一個巫師學校他是很被推崇的很吸引人的那我覺得在這個當中他們是跟我講啦我們也可不可以有巫師學校啦"},{"start":7514.588,"end":7539.268,"text":"他們說 委員 那個那麼好我們一樣是在傳承語言文化可是現在政府那個教主語的都有給他們什麼主語專職教師縣政府 地方政府 相公所的語言推動組織人員都有給他們薪水那為什麼我們這種這麼稀罕稀有的文化保存為什麼文化部可以比照嘛"},{"start":7540.109,"end":7550.851,"text":"給我們一個老師嘛 讓老師 至少老師有收入他就可以教學生我不知道部長您對於這樣的地方的聲音 您有什麼看法"},{"start":7551.813,"end":7579.125,"text":"這點我是不是請我們那個文資局局長來回答因為這個蠻具體的比如說我們要一個無私學校類似這樣的我想請他來回答好 謝謝委員剛才提到這個林梅這個案子我想第一個就是我們希望他有文化資產身份那現在屏東縣政府現在會做先期調查研究我們會輔導有一些個案像南排灣族的林梅這個案子他上次提來有一些還要再修正再送來我們讓他有文資身份之後我們會補助他做所謂的保存維護計畫"},{"start":7580.145,"end":7592.279,"text":"那可不可以快 多這個我想我們可以跟屏東縣政府我們很痛苦的就是文資保存我們都覺得慢少"},{"start":7593.787,"end":7613.4,"text":"我們會加速主動跟屏東縣政府來積極聯繫我是覺得如果真的沒有辦法快多就倒不如就推一個政策就像我們現在很多的主語推動的政策也有語推人員也有主語專職教師他其實也可以用政策來推動"},{"start":7614.741,"end":7631.655,"text":"那我請局長跟部長來思考看看好不好那以上的這些問題我是希望說也能夠再到辦公室跟我做一個說明可以嗎可以沒問題好謝謝部長也謝謝主席好謝謝吳麗華委員部長請回接下來請陳秀寶委員"},{"start":7641.257,"end":7644.82,"text":"謝主席 請文化部李海部長好 有請李部長陳委員你好部長好 在本席質詢之前呢針對我們這些又多又繁雜的這是近乎是刁難的解凍報告呢本席這邊要先肯認文化部同仁進行來撰寫解凍報告因為其實文化部的預算呢在我們"},{"start":7669.42,"end":7687.26,"text":"委員會的山洞之外呢還有被大會山洞的還有被統山統洞之後你們分配到的所以這可以說是史上規模最大最複雜的這個預算的山洞那同仁呢真的文化部的同仁已經非常的努力所以我希望在野的同仁可以一起來支持文化部的解凍"},{"start":7688.001,"end":7692.424,"text":"好那接下來呢這邊要先關心小公視的經費的這個狀況預算案中文化部對公視的這個補助呢是減列了2300萬並且凍結了25%那再加上呢影視及流行音樂與輔導呢凍結了5000萬文化部的報告裡面有提到說因為預算會影響到小公視那本席這邊先請教說對小公視的影響以及目前節目直播有沒有延宕或是停擺的狀況"},{"start":7716.684,"end":7724.916,"text":"我想一定會吧我想請董事長報告因為這個部分我們固定的預算如果不能給的話那董事長這邊您先簡單的報告一下"},{"start":7727.827,"end":7752.119,"text":"謝謝委員的關心目前對小公司的影響是還蠻大的3的部分當然我們就必須要做一點項目的調整那也使得有些計畫沒辦法繼續但最主要是因為動的部分也蠻大的數字那這個部分我們目前有13個新的創的計畫目前為止都必須先暫停然後其他有些在進行中的項目我們都必須要做斟酌的修剪"},{"start":7752.959,"end":7775.415,"text":"或者是做一些调整这块我们还是蛮希望能够立法院赶快解冻因为这对国家的儿少教育的发展对儿少的这个成长影响很大是是好那这个部分呢因为今天是解冻案我们都希望说可以顺利今天会提到小公事是因为近期有不少的家长跟我分享也且称赞我们有个节目叫做欢迎光临我的牧场"},{"start":7776.235,"end":7791.999,"text":"裡面就是帶孩子們去認識養殖動物的辛苦以及相關的工作內容很有趣那孩子很喜歡看我們家的小子子也很喜歡但是家長就會擔心啊這麼優質的節目如果相關經費沒有順利解凍是不是就影響相關的這些節目的製播那部長你有看過相關這個影片嗎"},{"start":7794.98,"end":7812.898,"text":"有你自己有看過其實那個文化的那個節目的製作是很長一段時間他不是臨時要做所以那個山跟洞對我們來講傷害很大因為我們可能做一半做不下其實這個節目在youtube可以看到所以家長非常的喜歡他可以重複的播放給孩子們看"},{"start":7814.119,"end":7839.762,"text":"那我想部長你一定了解家長的憂心啦所以我在這邊還是要呼籲說在野黨真的你們要放下這個砍預算的屠刀我們要回歸我們審查預算的專業不要讓這麼優質的兒少節目受到影響影響到兒少的權益喔 謝謝那再來我要針對文資修復的部分本席也非常關心本席的選區鹿港是我國著名的古蹟聚落所以對文資修復的這個需求量非常的大"},{"start":7840.202,"end":7854.341,"text":"那本席在週一的時候也才到我們鹿港的三三國廟以及信安宮來考察修繕的成果那我相信部長也一定很支持文資修復再利用但是現在目前文資局的文化資產業務被凍結了五百萬業務費被凍結了百分之三十"},{"start":7857.205,"end":7881.039,"text":"那這個都會影響到文資局推動相關的有形的無形的這些文化資產保存的維護的工作那這次的考察裡面其實地方的文史工作者以及相關的古蹟的管理者都提出了可以再協助的相關的事項因為你修繕之後古蹟修繕之後就會有彩繪泥作等相關的這個後續的維護需求那當然我們文資的這個修復跟再利用不會有終點"},{"start":7882,"end":7903.415,"text":"所以我希望說替我們鹿港大大小小的文資來爭取我們一定要先支持文資局的解凍這個預算的解凍但是我會希望說以後我們在編列預算的時候是不是可以逐年的來增加對於文資方面這些相關的預算呢請部長您說一下您的想法其實我們始終不夠因為"},{"start":7904.515,"end":7931.328,"text":"剛剛我在前面報告說就是台灣的災情隨時發生各地方上的宮廟也好還有一些古蹟也好他隨時需要我們幫忙然後所以文資局所承擔的業務跟修繕是很重的所以這個部分的預算當然是一定要增加所以我剛才一直強調其實文化部的預算為什麼有時候我被刪或者被凍會覺得"},{"start":7932.729,"end":7938.393,"text":"很難過是因為他本來就不太夠就像你委員剛剛講他是不夠的我們隨著時間的推移需要我們修上維護的會越來越多經費也越來越龐大所以這個部分我也一再的在每次質詢的時候我會提到說希望對於文資的修復這個部分我們"},{"start":7949.54,"end":7965.656,"text":"可以更重視可以爭取到更多的預算當然有一些民眾怕人不理解他們以為他說那今年的預算煽動之後不是跟以前的規模一樣嗎但是其實我們對預算的需求是越來越高的我們必須逐年去增加逐年去編列那這個部分也請將來就是我們在編預算的時候在這一塊呢我們能夠多注意然後能夠多支持"},{"start":7972.182,"end":7981.851,"text":"好 那這個部分我先在預算的部分先這樣子我要先講一下現在民眾非常關心而且網路上很熱議的就是關於黃牛票查緝的問題因為這是攸關民眾的權益那如果說我們在黃牛票的查緝有擾民的話是不是我們應該改善檢舉的資訊"},{"start":7992.02,"end":8008.17,"text":"在日前有媒體指出有民眾在社群平台原價讓售演唱會的票卷去遭到文化局要求說明的這樣的事件那衍生出來就是有大家很熱烈的討論那其中有討論到的就是說文化部的這個黃牛檢舉專區資訊填寫的問題"},{"start":8013.073,"end":8032.7,"text":"這個部分我們資訊體檢要求要寫包含座位等詳細的訊息就是提升檢舉的難度因為現在很多黃牛他在賣票的時候是透過LINE的群組的方式來賣但是他不會透過真正的座位的訊息他會提供一個大概的區間大家自己排自己幾個座位這樣"},{"start":8033.36,"end":8043.474,"text":"那如果民眾他發現有這樣的情勢他沒有辦法檢討因為他沒有買到票啊他還沒買票的時候他就不知道真正的座位的這個訊息所以這個部分我們文化部是不是可以來研議檢討這個改善這樣的機制"},{"start":8046.343,"end":8074.313,"text":"其實這個真的是兩難因為如果我們的資訊不足的話我們無法確定他這個檢舉是不是本人然後我們要如何去把它確定資料所以剛剛講的真的是對我們文化部來講是兩難因為他資訊不足我們官司把它找到這個確定是坐在哪裡哪個位置我們都沒有辦法但是你會變成說如果你要貼這樣的訊息你沒有拿到票你不知道真正的訊息的話你明明知道有黃牛的情勢你卻沒有辦法去追啊"},{"start":8075.444,"end":8087.452,"text":"所以這點我們再來改進來了解一下你們在研議一下這個如何來改善那當然也有民眾他有反映出說只要在網路上有加價販售這個認定你們現在已經擴及到只要有上架的行為就處罰"},{"start":8093.396,"end":8099.421,"text":"就票卷沒有賣出也是一樣所以這樣子的做法是不是會衍生出檢舉黃牛這個產業的這個隱憂所以對於我們文化部來追這個黃牛票有擾民的這個部分部長您說你們可以來研議看有什麼比較周全一點的方法"},{"start":8112.37,"end":8128.156,"text":"昨天內政委員會他們有出審設違法對於運輸遊樂票券黃牛票的罰款有提高來打擊黃牛大文化部這邊是不是也可以跟內政部這邊加強合作我們來提升打擊黃牛票這個效率以及精準度"},{"start":8129.562,"end":8153.463,"text":"是 剛剛講到那個販售的定義是 善價陳列 多售多算但是剛剛講到老民跟我們的效率的確是我們未來要討論的一個部分就是在不老民的情況下 又要很有效率的抓到這個黃牛然後抓到黃牛之後 他本身要罰多少錢譬如最近抓到之後 罰太重的話 他就訴訟"},{"start":8155.36,"end":8180.146,"text":"還是跟文化部疏遠所以這一套機制其實是因為其實黃劉佩好說真的他可以有這樣的手法去販售他就是可以鑽這些漏洞那我們如果去補這些洞就變成說我們可能要多費心那這邊我還要請教部長關於剛才有很多委員非常關心的粉絲見面會是不是屬於藝文表演的一種型態"},{"start":8181.499,"end":8207.145,"text":"您覺得我剛才其實一再強調當年我們的文創法裡面加了這一條黃流的票是界定表演藝術 音樂表演一定要正式的有一個表演售票但是屬於剛剛您講的那個粉絲見面會它這個情況是各式各樣會一直變化我們要是把它界定成是表演的話那這個將來是量量是非常大而且是一個灰色地帶"},{"start":8208.265,"end":8231.622,"text":"您不覺得說因為影視產業的內容是非常的多元它有各種的太陽那如果說我們很狹隘的去認定說那粉絲見面會不屬於是藝文表演它不屬文創法的規範的話那我們要如何去抑制這個黃牛票這樣子四處的串行因為其實"},{"start":8232.483,"end":8254.292,"text":"任何應該以民眾來講他們會認為說任何的藝文表演有關的都會可以是適用文創法那部長您現在以你們的想法是覺得說這樣子它不算是表演所以它就不適用文創法嗎是它不算表演因為我剛剛有特別提到這個灰色地帶將來會一直蔓延譬如說見面簽名"},{"start":8256.033,"end":8278.852,"text":"唱一首歌算不算 唱兩首歌算不算它實在是一個商業行為在圈粉絲的過程中是一個商業行為它要賣票跟表演是不太一樣文化部當年會把黃牛拉進我們的文創法裡面其實已經給我們帶來無限的麻煩我們整個文化部為了抓黃牛這件事情我剛才講過從抓到"},{"start":8280.754,"end":8296.283,"text":"地方上警察抓到之後他訴怨等等我覺得我們如果再加進這一項其實我可以理解部長您現在講這樣子的文化部的困擾對一個文化推動者一個產業的推動者協助者那在"},{"start":8297.023,"end":8300.346,"text":"文化推動跟商業行為跟黃牛票之間你們要如何在這個中間找到一個平衡而且又能夠扶植到產業也不會讓這些黃牛有機可乘而傷害到我們產業或傷害到我們的民眾的熱情這個部分取捨或者說這個斟酌"},{"start":8319.442,"end":8340.403,"text":"這個部分當然也需要說文化部的同仁來費心但是其實如果你沒有一個相關的規範相關的一個制度去遏止黃牛票的話其實對產業的傷害也是很大的那這邊我再請教部長您之前有說跟更長管家洽談這個實名制的這個優惠方案我想知道說相關的進度如何"},{"start":8340.663,"end":8357.917,"text":"我覺得還不錯就是像小巨蛋他就願意如果你願意實名制他就八五折這個部分可能是我們最有進度的部分就是我們不斷的跟這些最大型的場館去談實名制我們文化部也編了預算鼓勵實名制"},{"start":8358.277,"end":8380.67,"text":"其實已經有願意開始配你過去好很多而且各場館也知道這個環遊的問題之後他們會主動編列那個優惠像剛剛講小巨蛋就編了85折如果你願意用實名制的話我的租賃給你是85折像這個就算是很大的進步這就很成功了對因為我們如果不從源頭去解決的話我剛剛講到一方面又要維護這些"},{"start":8382.651,"end":8387.295,"text":"他個人的個資有沒有然後一方面要去抓他抓到之後他又宿院我們整個文化部真的是為了這個黃牛我們的同仁真的很辛苦所以我們必須從源頭把他杜絕那源頭杜絕就是拜託這些場館"},{"start":8398.385,"end":8402.609,"text":"我希望文化部繼續努力還有我剛剛提到的部分關於粉絲見面會、握手會、簽唱會或是相關的各種名稱也希望你們要通盤檢討相關的機制我們要納入各種的太陽來考量才能夠真正落實查其黃牛票"},{"start":8425.643,"end":8430.79,"text":"好 謝謝陳秀寶委員 部長請回那我們接下來休息五分鐘"},{"start":8925.489,"end":8930.692,"text":"好 我們現在繼續開會我們現在來邀請張雅玲委員質詢謝謝主席 我們有請部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":8947.318,"end":8969.328,"text":"委員你好部長好 今天我想要針對一個最近你們也看到網路上面有非常多的討論有關於一個泰國知名的居兒劇的組合Lingo他們現在要來台灣辦一個見面會但是這裡面有幾個疑點 可能今天要來跟部長做個討論第一個疑點就是這一場的主辦單位似乎是境外公司 是中資的超級娛樂"},{"start":8971.269,"end":8991.243,"text":"我們可以看到這個資訊上面它登記在中國澳門總公司位於中國珠海那根據兩岸人民條例或是港澳條例或是公司法未經許可其實都不可以在台灣舉辦相關的活動營業那這可能會造成一些境外它是經流在境外那它會有很多的問題這樣子那我想先請教因為其實我們之前就已經來詢問文化部了"},{"start":8998.028,"end":9016.733,"text":"但是文化部告訴我們這一場的主辦不是超級娛樂而是台灣的一間叫做藝尚的一個公司但是我們在iBone上面看到的主辦單位都還是超級娛樂所以到底是超級娛樂還是藝尚製作呢這一點可以先來幫我們做個釐清嗎"},{"start":9025.51,"end":9041.297,"text":"剛剛我其實有回答過他們是一個合作的方式啦但是主辦到底是誰主辦他是藝善在台灣的部分是由他負責但是這個抄襲是在他是澳門公司嘛他有負責找藝人好我想先確認一下因為這個東西喔"},{"start":9042.037,"end":9066.703,"text":"最主要就是說如果到時候發生了票務上的糾紛等等到底是誰要來去處理呢或者是說現場發生了一些狀況一些意外而需要求償的時候到底是向主辦求償還是向協辦來求償呢因為我們的認定他們是合作但是一定通常我們辦活動都會分這個主辦跟協辦所以到底到時候發生這些糾紛是跟誰來求償"},{"start":9068.837,"end":9090.088,"text":"益善公司在台灣負責全部的這些活動我們當然是找益善好 那我想問一下部長不知道益善的資本多少這個我不曉得100萬是可是我大概算了一下以這個票價乘以它現在的一個座位數而且我不是以最低票價來算我不是以這個什麼7980塊這個票價我大概以一個5000塊的票價來去計算它的席次"},{"start":9097.071,"end":9119.081,"text":"他大概這個收入就會有1500萬那到時候如果說只有一個營業資本額只有100萬的公司第一個他有辦法去負責他有辦法賠償這1500萬的就分嗎第二個如果說他到時候說我只是一個協辦主辦是超級娛樂他推到超級娛樂身上的時候到底會不會最後不了了之呢"},{"start":9120.49,"end":9133.221,"text":"這個是我覺得部長我們可能需要來釐清到底誰要來承擔這些相關的責任因為這是影響到台灣的追星人的消費權益所以這個部分我們是要再跟議上確認嗎還是怎麼來處理呢"},{"start":9135.759,"end":9150.865,"text":"像我們有去跟經濟部了解剛剛講到這個超期他的股權結構他的資金等等然後意義上他所扮演的角色我們目前所知道就是負責全部台灣這個部分那這種事情我覺得"},{"start":9151.545,"end":9174.641,"text":"就是我們未來要很注意的就是一個灰色地帶我想我們現在就要非常的注意這個灰色地帶因為其實像這樣子的模式這個不是第一期今年已經去年也都有就是有非常多中資用這種方式他在台灣沒有落地他找了一個小型的公司那甚至網路上面有在傳這可能是個空殼公司可能就是在活動的前幾個月他才舉辦那有些資本額可能只有20萬"},{"start":9176.635,"end":9195.603,"text":"那這個就會變成是一個漏洞讓中資可以用漏洞的方式來台灣做這樣子的工作那甚至會不會除了消費爭議可能還會有這個逃漏稅等等的問題會不會甚至有詐騙我覺得這個是需要這個部長我們可能需要盡快的來針對這個方面來去做一些處置"},{"start":9198.003,"end":9226.529,"text":"這部分是不是可以請部長來盡快來幫我們做個研議呢這個對於其實已經不是只有環流問題它可能涉及到國安等等我想說經濟部也好我們陸委會也好我們盡快跟各單位來協調對我們是不是可以跟陸委會經濟部像這種事情已經是到國安或者是中資進到台灣來換一個方式進到台灣來決定這些演唱會的內容等等這點的確是不只是環流了"},{"start":9226.869,"end":9250.669,"text":"好 但是我先跟部長講因為這個票10號就要開賣了可是這個可能就已經有我們剛剛講的消費就很爭議存在我們是不是可以在這幾天跟文化部也還有一起來開個會來討論這件事情我們可以怎麼來處理其實我們可以接受個案來檢舉啦就是我們雖然在我們的文創法裡面有這一條譬如說見面會算不算是我們文化部但是我們可以接受個案來"},{"start":9251.73,"end":9255.495,"text":"個案來檢舉那我們也盡快的委員您剛剛講到的這種我們盡快來跟相關單位來聊好 這個會後我們來約時間好不好因為我們還是要確保我們所消費者的權益啦讓他們追得到人找得到錢啦好不好那再來第二個部分就是說"},{"start":9267.05,"end":9290.395,"text":"見面會到底是不是用文創法我先跟部長有個簡單的概念其實在我小時候因為小時候就開始追星啦那時候叫做簽唱會那是對於歌手的部分但是大家可能部長也非常清楚對於演員的部分其實我們一直都沒有相關的形式過去在台灣沒有任何形式可以跟喜愛他的這個粉絲去做一些交流所以這也是為什麼後來韓劇大夯之後呢"},{"start":9293.135,"end":9308.032,"text":"我們可以看到韓國發展出了一個叫做見面會的形式其實他就是透過一個這樣子的形式來跟粉絲做互動那這些藝人本身他就是一個有名非常非常有名因為他的戲劇作品受到非常大的喜愛的一個"},{"start":9309.113,"end":9329.52,"text":"那個人物喔那可是我們現在的文創法裡面卻把這個東西不納入進去而導致我們不能抓黃牛欸可是我要跟部長講喔在這個見面會裡面其實都一定有歌舞表演欸都一定有歌舞表演而且這些見面會的營收是相當驚人的喔如果我們來看2023年這是我自己從網路上面"},{"start":9330.3,"end":9348.794,"text":"我們用工人聚會去手動去計算出的一些場次所以可能有一些沒有抓到的但是以2023年你看33場2024年40場2025年到4月而已已經11場了所以這個場次其實是越來越多的而且如果以席次而且也不是一個很大的館場台大體育館一個"},{"start":9349.915,"end":9372.302,"text":"管大概2000我算八成就好收入大概你看2023年就1.85億2024年就2.24億那2025年到現在4月就已經0.62億了所以這是一筆不小的錢耶而且他們的票價其實都是像剛剛你有看到嘛7980塊這個東西不納入文創法我覺得就是讓黃牛可以鑽漏洞啊這部分是不是可以來做一些處理呢"},{"start":9374.449,"end":9402.061,"text":"這部分是不是可以來研議把文創法來做一些調整我們可以討論一下因為那個黃流這個事情也許有的是在運動有的是在這種譯文那我想我們能夠做到的就是先接受個案的處理然後再下一步就是這個法案要不要修怎麼修我想這是我們要慎重的所以我聽起來部長其實您是開放的嘛對不對因為對於見面會因為這個其實這個形式是一直不停的在跟粉絲的交流跟互動其實是一直不停的在變"},{"start":9402.381,"end":9421.213,"text":"他個案每次到底做到什麼程度 見面會本身到底有沒有唱歌那剛才講賣票當然沒問題 一定有賣票那我們要怎麼樣去界定他是屬於文創法裡面可以管轄的這點我想我們要慎重的來考慮但是我們目前能做到就是個案來審查"},{"start":9423.359,"end":9452.979,"text":"那這個個案審查我到時候可能會再問一下到底要怎麼樣來提供相關的資訊來審查這個個案好不好那再來就是一個部分我先問一個最重要的一個問題因為其實之前大家文化部都有講說如果有大咖要來台灣的時候你們一定會去先跟他做遊說希望他可以使用實名制我想要問一下七月GD這是震撼亞洲非常大的一個大咖他要來台灣了我們準備好了嗎我們跟他們接觸了嗎"},{"start":9454.621,"end":9458.148,"text":"可不可以做個說明請我們的司長回答"},{"start":9461.537,"end":9484.21,"text":"那因為基本上其實民間辦理演唱會還是民間的自由機制那這一場委員提醒的我們來試著找一下它台灣是由哪一家公司來辦理我們會先試著能夠聯繫跟打電話提醒好那我們大概什麼時候可以追蹤這個進度呢因為這個東西一定到時候會有非常非常多的可能大家非常關注的啦大概什麼時候我們可以來追蹤後續的進度"},{"start":9484.73,"end":9506.283,"text":"委員因為我們現在真的不知道他現在台灣是找哪一間所以我們真的就只能是多方的去詢問看看願不願意先事先透露給我們那可不可以委員讓我們能夠有消息的時候就趕緊跟您這邊做說明不然這樣好不好我們五月底之前好不好五月底之前再來徵詢一下現在的進度那這邊我再做一個提醒因為其實之前在這個"},{"start":9507.984,"end":9527.273,"text":"周杰倫的時候蔡依林的時候這種非常大咖都有黃牛詐騙的問題那我非常擔心GD這一場也會有黃牛詐騙他們在網路上面說賣票可是最後其實他是用黃牛這個形式來做詐騙這個部分我們是不是可以跟我們的金管會還有這個不是金管會啦跟這個法務部"},{"start":9528.747,"end":9551.512,"text":"速發部一起來討論我們如何來預防這樣子的詐騙行為是不是可以來做這件事情 部長是 我們其實跟速發部那種已經有合作怎麼樣把它那個詐騙下架等等我想我們會進一步來研究這個那這部分我一樣五月底來跟文化部再做進一步的討論好不好我們如何來預防這一場也變成黃牛因為這是一個犯罪行為好不好 好 謝謝"},{"start":9554.172,"end":9559.534,"text":"好 謝謝張雅玲委員 部長請回我們接下來請羅廷偉委員謝謝趙偉 有請部長好 有請李部長羅委員你好 部長好"},{"start":9582.725,"end":9609.075,"text":"部長 我想跟您先請問一下委員會答詢的一個回覆大概多久會回平均這個時段平均要看什麼案子吧您覺得兩個月會不會有點久還是要看什麼案子好 那我們來討論看看您還記得上一次在委員會的時候我有給你考各個布袋戲相關的角色人物 您還記得嗎"},{"start":9611.093,"end":9627.633,"text":"記得啊 記得你考我那個布袋系 可是我又忘記了喔 沒事沒事沒事 不過我們沒有說要你記得喔 那我想我在3月27文化部的業務報告那有問這個文化傳承的一個布袋系問題喔 那時候考了這個幾個人物問題"},{"start":9629.475,"end":9654.97,"text":"但是呢我是希望說部長為避免繼續失去這個寶貴的偶系文化布袋系的扎根教育從國小、國中、高中要怎麼來做在文化的保存又要怎麼來做那時候有強調嘛那教育體系對整個布袋系的完整的一個傳承重要性那當時不要說我建議說不要把它當成是短期的一個興趣培養這樣會不夠長久那部長您也回應我非常認同"},{"start":9655.931,"end":9678.997,"text":"但是3月27到5月7號一個月過去了並沒有看到文化部的一個回覆部長您覺得這樣子是不是好像不夠重視呢當初有答應多久是沒有答應沒有沒有答應那個但是我記得正常我們回應的話至少也不要超過15天吧"},{"start":9681.621,"end":9707.692,"text":"其實我們對整個布袋系的那個傳承我們這個負責的部門其實有一整套的就是固定每一年的編列預算還有加強這個布袋系我們從頭到尾都沒有減少過包括劇本的創作 人才培育這個我相信 但是我需要資料啊所以我想 部長那兩天可以給我資料嗎因為已經一段時間了我們其實現成了吧 兩天"},{"start":9709.386,"end":9734.609,"text":"三天一個禮拜一個禮拜其實我們這個東西真的是每一年都在做所以一個禮拜給你詳細的計畫但是當時我有跟您建議就是說你也有認同就是說不只是把現有的這些計畫給我還有更重要就是我們當時有講的不要把它當成短期的興趣在教育體系上如何做一個重視那這個部分上有所突破那這個部分有沒有在做研擬"},{"start":9735.868,"end":9753.09,"text":"有啊 我們去年最近在討論明年預算的時候我們還特別針對布袋系我們要如何去推廣 這個有啦好 那就一個禮拜把資料給我 可以嗎好第二個問題 蔣部長中央社作為國家通訊社 你對它的期許是什麼"},{"start":9754.571,"end":9780.574,"text":"中央社非常重要因為它的歷史悠久所以我有兩個非常重要的任務一個就是它本身對過去所拍攝到的東西的保存因為它其他單位大概沒有它這麼多第二它有另外一個任務就是對國外的我們的駐點其實我記得文化部有一支播預算給中央社試著到每一個地方駐點包括實習生等等"},{"start":9781.155,"end":9801.074,"text":"沒有錯中央社是國家通信社我相信它不是商業的電視台那外媒對台灣的新聞需求是越來越高的一個情況之下但是最近呢上報一連四篇有關中央社的報導那不曉得部長有沒有看過我大概知道但是我沒有仔細看因為基本上我們文化部針對我們周邊這些"},{"start":9803.596,"end":9822.005,"text":"譬如中央社啊什麼公關集團等等我們是維持一個尊重他的他們怎麼樣去經營這個團隊而且這個團隊每個團隊都是歷史悠久那文化部的立場就是尊重部長我們探討是希望進進"},{"start":9823.286,"end":9841.318,"text":"我們不會說希望藉由這樣子的一個探討變成是批判我們更希望中央社越來越好那中央社員工從上班的8小時改為8加1部長請問為什麼會引起這麼大的反彈您個人有研究嗎這點我必須了解整個細節因為我們當然聽到都是一個"},{"start":9842.439,"end":9863.729,"text":"聽到的都是一個簡單的8加1我並不了解這個真的細節是什麼因為他的媒體新聞報導他是說那這個整個中央社員工的工時從8個小時變成8加1的一個背景主因是絕大多數的一個員工一直都依照8小時工時上下班 中間如需用餐休息"},{"start":9864.549,"end":9880.051,"text":"則是請員工自行安排時間找空檔那如果按照這樣子的一個新聞所述部長您覺得中央社實際上班8小時到底有沒有履行勞基法工時繼續工作4個小時至少應有30分鐘的休息時間的一個規定呢"},{"start":9881.66,"end":9895.769,"text":"其實上報這個事件那個中央社已經對外有聲明您介不介意請中央社不建議我們探討嘛介不介意換我不建議大家都是希望對有所回應讓能夠解釋一下"},{"start":9896.394,"end":9900.34,"text":"好 謝謝委員我覺得現在來回答這個用這個題目我有點委屈但是我來面對沒事沒事我覺得上報的報導我們就是探討所以我剛剛說沒有要批判我說上報的報導我覺得非常不實在"},{"start":9911.496,"end":9915.938,"text":"他前面擬了一些題目呢那我們做了說明他也不見得採信我覺得他有立場的講進來那我願意我在社內也做了跟同仁在溝通說明因為有些東西我見了報導才知道那麼我們內部就在做協調跟說明我先講一下這8加18加1的工作制度是央社配合政府的在我們在103年就已經納入社規而且經過勞資協議有升級勞資協議"},{"start":9938.166,"end":9942.169,"text":"勞資協議通過所以這件事在政府的立法有字號的那麼到了這個我進了社裡後我就發現這個社裡怎麼有人上班是8加1那我們的記者是8加1或8加2在外場實際工作時間計算但是有少部分輪值的同仁是全天就一來不管你中間有沒有休息吃飯喝咖啡等等就是8個小時就可以走那就變成兩個制度所以我們那時候探討了結果那在過程協議"},{"start":9968.647,"end":9981.739,"text":"說要不要統一可是後來討論到說有些輪班制度的同仁尤其是編輯同仁其實這部分同仁不到社內的三分之一我要講我們三分之二的同仁都是8加1的公時沒關係我只要有確認我跟個別勞工協商"},{"start":9984.621,"end":10007.512,"text":"對有當初8加1是勞工協商而且納入了社規所以我們後來也不勉強同仁也是給你這個機會來做解釋嘛好不好我們都是可以溝通可以解釋的好不好但是藉由這個平台讓我們來了解我們也希望說任何一個員工不要有這個勞動權益的受損好不好謝謝你的一個解釋那再來我想請問一下部長"},{"start":10009.022,"end":10035.903,"text":"我想這幾年演唱會經濟大家都非常關心那在台灣可以說是百花齊放那帶動文化的一個產業發展也深受年輕世代的一個喜愛這個議題我們在委員會其實很多次的都在討論像是周杰倫演唱會那一次我們說即將發生搶票的時機點我想印象你也很深刻但是相關政策我們看到黃牛票的問題並沒有因為修法而因此有所改善"},{"start":10036.864,"end":10047.501,"text":"那反而逐漸成為文化部必須面對的一個尖銳挑戰我肯定文化部對於黃牛亂象的一個積極態度但是2023年5月修正的文創"},{"start":10048.956,"end":10067.381,"text":"文創法明確禁止藝文票券加價販售同時也設置檢舉專區展現整個要打擊黃牛的一個決心但是修法之後呢法條是否真正的落實效果是否有如預期這是我們目前最大的一個考驗那我覺得"},{"start":10068.061,"end":10085.516,"text":"我想引用台中市實際狀況來作為一個案例說明因為文創法最後修法目前警察如果查獲相關的黃牛行為會將案件移送至縣市政府裁罰但是呢我們看到上次我們在內政委會審查涉違法的時候警政署有說目前至少"},{"start":10086.577,"end":10106.042,"text":"至今喔 今年開始就沒有用社會法開罰了好 那5月1號的時候 台中市政府新聞局就對媒體說啊文化部在修法之後 台中市政府新聞局已經收受了113件的一個檢舉案件包含以不正方式取得票券4件 加價轉售109件"},{"start":10108.883,"end":10129.343,"text":"以不正方式取得票券有三件資料不齊一件是資料完整經警察局協助調查之後已經移送了地檢署但是加價轉售的案件多達63件檢舉資料是不全所以已經結案了資料完備可進行的後續調查只有46件"},{"start":10131.277,"end":10147.177,"text":"針對可續行調查的46案其中29件已經處理完畢其餘17件辦理行政調查好 這些數據我是要反映兩點第一 地方政府確實有投入行政資源執行"},{"start":10148.078,"end":10171.808,"text":"法規但是呢大量的案件無法進入實質的調查主因是資料不完備還有收證困難我沒有要你記剛剛的一個數據只是要大概去引述這樣子的一個資料舉證困難部長現在各地方文化局第一線接受檢舉執行行政調查有些縣市政府的人力只有兩三人處理數十案"},{"start":10172.948,"end":10201.553,"text":"像這樣子的案件不只要像原始的購票方式去查證還要找警方協助調院票券轉售記錄還要設平台的一個資料調查電信記錄我們都知道現在已經高度數位化了已經常透過匿名的社團網路拍賣私人LINE去轉傳相關的信用卡預購的一個權利所以這樣子的一個方式變成檢舉成功率偏低文化部有沒有辦法提供統一的行政查處流程"},{"start":10202.233,"end":10229.482,"text":"支援地方來做一個執法有沒有規劃其實我們文化部是有教有做教育訓練然後我們也會了解各地方他們所遇到的問題其實我們一直在一直在做這些事情我剛剛講出這些我希望你最後能夠關心統一的一個行政查組我要真的要提醒文化部黃牛亂象不只還在民眾也感受不到修法的一個改善"},{"start":10230.182,"end":10230.322,"text":"部長可以嗎"},{"start":10256.55,"end":10277.662,"text":"可以沒問題我剛提的希望你能夠感受到好不好一起來努力好謝謝羅廷偉委員部長請回我們接下來請萬美玲委員好謝謝周偉我們有請林委員部長好有請李部長"},{"start":10284.946,"end":10306.951,"text":"王委員你好部長好部長我想在日前我們在文化部本席有這個質詢那時候我才說到說我們娛樂文創產業受到關稅的影響是最少的當時有講出一些背景同時我也有要求文化部跟文策院我們在投資上面要非常的謹慎我們才剛談完這個議題我們就看到美國的川普總統馬上在週一就宣布要針對"},{"start":10313.573,"end":10333.782,"text":"所有在美國以外製作的電影課徵100%的關稅我想這件事情其實影響也蠻大的那當然部長好像也有提到說那事實上現在就是說在台灣來製作的這個影片這個電影不太多不過我想部長是不是應該還是認為還是會影響到我們影視產業的發展"},{"start":10338.896,"end":10361.184,"text":"會 因為我們未來想要開始發展國際合作那我們就要考慮要不要跟美國合作因為這一點就是所謂的影響好 我想除了國際合作還有這個交流很重要嘛那當然這也會影響到說雖然現在我們自己自製的國片進軍到美國的片子不太多但我們總是希望"},{"start":10361.724,"end":10391.099,"text":"就有朝一日我們的國片的這個水準啦我們的製作啦我們的成果啦可以在世界各地不管美國歐洲而且我們都可以進軍我想這一定是一個我們的長遠的目標遠大的理想我們希望去達成嘛所以我想這個都是有短中長期的一個影響那第二個呢除了說我們自己的國片進去以後會百分之百的課稅之外那針對於美國也提到說如果他們的自己的這個製片是在美國以外的地方喔"},{"start":10391.519,"end":10415.528,"text":"取景或者制作或是哪些地方有参与到是不是也会在这个课税范围之内文化部第一个有没有去了解第二个如果是的话这个影响真的很大其实我们有很多的美国的片子他在我们这边去取景对于双方的交流对于提升台湾的国际能见度都是很好的所以到底什么课税范围这部分部长有了解吗"},{"start":10416.448,"end":10428.316,"text":"其實我覺得川普當年講這個百分之百的割稅他裡面的更詳細的情況我們真的沒有辦法了解因為他沒有在往下講包括您剛才講他鼓勵大家"},{"start":10429.451,"end":10445.865,"text":"他其實是鼓勵所有的美國變回美國拍攝不要到紐西蘭澳洲各國去拍他想用這個方式來抵制可是事實上因為這樣子結果他成本會變更高等等所以我們文化部所接到的是那個訊息大概就是這樣子"},{"start":10446.846,"end":10464.062,"text":"部長其實您看喔您看一下我今天提出來就是說你看我們來台取景拍攝的國際電影其實不少喔那從我現在看到不管台北催淨令啦 露西啊什麼等等很多那事實上喔我覺得對於就是我們台灣電影的這個鼓勵啊跟雙方的交流我覺得都有達到一定的這個目標啦"},{"start":10466.184,"end":10482.676,"text":"所以其實在這個川普發表說我們課徵百分之百的相關電影的關稅文化部在第一時間本身看到我們的回應是說我們會去了解這個關稅政策所包含的範圍然後會去這個嚴理因應的一個方案不過剛才我在跟這個部長這個交換意見當中我們顯然"},{"start":10486.158,"end":10496.064,"text":"我们也不知道恐怕连自己好莱坞的媒体产业都一头雾水那我们怎么去了解那又怎么去因应呢有没有一个短期上面我们的想法"},{"start":10497.014,"end":10523.639,"text":"有 其實文化部本來就有一個單位是經貿小組其實我就在前幾年我們自己開的會決定把各種可能就是跟美國之間的那種有可能那個輸入的文創產品將來萬一課稅變多了我們怎麼營運 其實我們有在做只是因為事實上我們真的輸進美國的電影譬如說這幾年只有五六部就算那個加起來的那個"},{"start":10524.939,"end":10530.624,"text":"票房五六千萬 好 沒關係 部長這樣我了解目前我們當然是比較少 當然我們分兩個第一個就是我們輸出到美國去的這個電影第二個就是說他來取景的部分 這都是有影響的那是不是會後請 文化部這邊提供給我們說你們模擬的這幾個狀態大概是要怎麼因應 那我想會後給我一份這樣的資料另外我想"},{"start":10549.199,"end":10573.465,"text":"我們這一次立法院有朝野的委員訪美團這個委員同仁回來有講到說我國應該是關稅談判第一群四國也就是台日韓越我們會在這裡面所以看起來我們這個談判很快就會來到關於這樣的一個情形我們有沒有向行政院台美貿易談判小組去反映說到時候是不是要順便把電影的關稅納入這個談判當中"},{"start":10575.746,"end":10588.241,"text":"沒有耶 因為我覺得我剛剛在前面也解釋過在WTO之後因為我們對美國的讓步之後台灣電影幾乎是被消滅的所以我也不知道我們能夠"},{"start":10589.278,"end":10590.739,"text":"我們主動提供一些我們可以想像的狀況提供給行政院"},{"start":10612.321,"end":10629.713,"text":"好 那部長再來我想文化部最近其實這幾年為了我們國產電影的這個量跟值就是產量跟品質的提升那我們也提這個國產電影長短片的一個輔導金這輔導金顯然其實都蠻重要的但我們看一下這個數據從111年的76部到113年的83部我們看到量是增加了那這個增加跟輔導金有沒有關係 您認為"},{"start":10638.927,"end":10666.014,"text":"當然是有因為我覺得有直接關係我們看到在文化部自己的資料上面還有顯示接受文化部輔導金的國產電影數量其實是呈現下降的趨勢的所以您剛剛說是有關係但我們看到有接受文化部自己的這個輔導金的數量是下降的那我們看到111年接受國片輔導金有57部113年下降到51部那這個意味什麼這第一件事"},{"start":10666.434,"end":10693.908,"text":"第二个我们再来看到虽然辅导金的补助案件刚刚本席有提到是下降的可是我们看到你整体辅导金的金额并没有下降反而是上升从111年的补助3.6亿提升到4亿这是什么一个情况是因为我们要刻意减少补助的量让我们受补助的金额增加还是这个评选上面有什么问题这个补助的方向是什么能不能部长提一下这两个数字"},{"start":10694.508,"end":10716.994,"text":"好 簡單講其實我們在福島上我們不但沒有減少還把上限從3000提到5000但是我覺得這根本的問題還是在民間的資金因為我們大概都只能給他到一半我們不可能給他全部嘛那剩下的那一半他要去找到有人願意投資那願意投資的人一定看到回收那電影的確是一個沒有辦法在"},{"start":10718.277,"end":10745.1,"text":"承諾那個投資者一定有回收的所以他被減少有各種原因部長我能理解你現在要講的但是呢我覺得你還是去看一下因為我們並不是他送上來我們全部都合嘛所以其實我們合的量其實是有下降的啦但是我們雖然合的量是下降的結果呢我們自己輔導金的總預算是往上的所以這一點很奇怪部長針對這個有說法嗎還是要會後你要把資料再給我一下"},{"start":10745.786,"end":10760.931,"text":"這個部分有各種原因 譬如說我們會選比較少一點是因為過去的經驗就是你選太多結果他都沒有完成所以我們的評審委員可能會挑選一些他判斷上會完成的影片這個各種原因"},{"start":10761.651,"end":10779.521,"text":"我想針對各種原因就是未來我們這個輔導金其實要更公開透明一些我們希望盡量的來輔導但是怎麼做這個機制我覺得要更清楚那再來我想我們的國產電影在國際影展當中的獲獎數其實我覺得它也是一個就是我們正面去看待我們的電影的狀況"},{"start":10782.102,"end":10788.884,"text":"所以我們看到逐年有提升從111年的8部電影獲得了10個獎項到112年13部電影獲得了18個獎項113年13部電影更獲得23個獎項我想這是非常值得讚許的但是我們看到在國際影影展獲獎的電影裡面得到文化部國產電影輔導金的真的是"},{"start":10805.729,"end":10824.396,"text":"沒有幾部寥寥可數你看到我們在111年剛說的獲獎當中八部只有兩部112年的十三部也只有四部那113年的十三部獲獎電影當中也僅有六部 二分之一都不到所以能不能在這裡說明一下為什麼我們獲獎成績其實很好但我們的輔導金是不是沒有給予幫助或者方向是錯誤的"},{"start":10833.747,"end":10851.859,"text":"這點我沒有辦法立刻回答的原因是我也不太了解他沒有拿到輔導金然後他得了獎但是我必須承認我來以後我想說剛剛您講到機制譬如說評審委員用什麼東西怎麼組成然後他到底要給哪一種電影比較商業還是比較藝術這個我覺得"},{"start":10853.08,"end":10867.797,"text":"那這樣子好不好謝謝部長其實您對於您不太了解的狀況我覺得也是直訴的回答那就是我們共同面對這樣的問題那本席既然把它提出來了我覺得值得這個部長去了解看看那是不是能夠在一個月之內"},{"start":10868.357,"end":10885.712,"text":"把今天我所提的问题当中你也发现说这个外委员提出来的问题的确是一个问题在我们怎么样让辅导金的机制更透明然后刚刚本席所提到的说获奖无数但是其实我们给的辅导金又这么少那整个原因是什么我们怎么去做改善一个月之内跟本席书面的答复可以吗"},{"start":10886.552,"end":10908.007,"text":"其實我們多了一個文策院之後有些不是文策院他在投資這是我猜想因為我看這幾部感覺不可能自己拍可能是文策院有投資那輔導金是兩個不同的機制我想我們整理一下好 部長就是整體的因素我們用素面一個月之內跟北溪回覆一個月可以嗎可以 因為這個我蠻完整的謝謝好 謝謝萬美玲委員部長請回接下來請葉元芝委員"},{"start":10928.473,"end":10930.795,"text":"我們請部長好 有請部長部長好葉委員你好部長 我也是想要來請教一下延續剛剛那個輔導金因為我們是有列另外一個標準就是用市佔率就是看它的票房"},{"start":10948.348,"end":10976.701,"text":"當然以票房來講的話這是前十名可不可以一樣就是提供我一個報告就是講一下為什麼有的電影它是有領到輔導金然後是領多少然後標準是什麼這樣子好不好今天不用回答了就是事後再給個書面報告這個也是我們本身文化不該重新去想那個機制所以謝謝你問這個因為我們看到市占率比較高的電影就是票房比較好的電影好像都沒有來申請輔導金"},{"start":10977.961,"end":11000.989,"text":"那有的可能是他認為他來申請也申請不到啦所以就放棄申請啦那也有的可能是沒有給那有的是領到之後 領到輔導金票房很好那有的可能是領到輔導金票房不好所以我想要依票房順序可不可以提供給我們一個資料 說明資料好 謝謝第二個我想還是想講一個我滿關心的黃牛的議題"},{"start":11003.562,"end":11027.14,"text":"之前文化部兩千多萬打黃牛辦公室後來我們都沒有凍結也沒有刪除就是希望文化部打黃牛這塊可以非常認真去做那三月多的時候我有去 因為我們有執行執行結果發現裁罰量在三月的時候裁罰量是145件其實比例是很低"},{"start":11027.941,"end":11052.931,"text":"那今天是已經到五月初了大概過了一個多月那裁罰量增加到160件大概一個多月只增加15件全台灣喔黃油的裁罰量只有增加15件我也是非常的不滿意啦那等一下再請部長回答啦有一個地方政府的局長他是在媒體上面公開的把問題點出來他說"},{"start":11056.223,"end":11073.068,"text":"因為地方的人力不足以桃園來講人力大概就只有兩個人所以結案率很低目前結案不到三分之一所有結案應該是中央打黃油辦公室收案之後分案分給桃園那分給桃園的案子他們到現在結案"},{"start":11073.948,"end":11087.34,"text":"不到三分之一那也不是說他們不認真他們非常認真但是人力就不足啊而且中央分給他們的案子裡面後來發現無效案件高達四成等於是花了很多時間在查無效案件"},{"start":11089.844,"end":11113.749,"text":"那其中還有一個問題就是他們需要很多不同的機關的支持例如說他們需要警察的支持他們還要去問當事人然後甚至於還要去問售票系統那售票系統會不會願意把資料給他們這也是一個很大的問題所以困難重重啦地方沒有什麼人力所以現在他們桃園是直接跟中央要人"},{"start":11114.329,"end":11126.762,"text":"那我的了解應該不是只有桃園有這樣的狀況因為機制是一樣的嘛中央接到案子之後由打黃牛辦公室來分案分給地方去查然後最後做裁罰"},{"start":11128.018,"end":11148.786,"text":"如果地方現在面臨人力不足所以黃油票在查的速度比較慢然後一直沒有辦法結案請問一下 我問一下那個部長能不能調整一下這個人力分配啊既然你們都已經編了兩千多萬成立打黃油辦公室在中央那中央這個打黃油辦公室能不能分擔一些地方的負擔部長"},{"start":11149.67,"end":11173.923,"text":"我想你剛才講到桃園市政府這一點我們能夠做的就是我們評估一下他們需要什麼經費其實我們的經費也不多啦評估一下他需要什麼協助因為我們對於地方上我們有個法律諮詢單位也做過教育訓練一個是法律知識 一個是人力那人力在地方上不足這是普遍的現象"},{"start":11175.504,"end":11202.889,"text":"我們的文化不能做就是知道他需要什麼我們能不能幫助這個應該不會只有桃園有這個狀況因為我們剛剛看到全國的整個黃流票的裁罰量就是很少嘛一個多月只剩下15件主要是他的那個裁罰過程非常的繁複那中央已經花兩千多萬都成立那個打黃流辦公室啊那這個打黃流辦公室不能多負擔一點工作嗎為什麼他們只負責收案跟分案"},{"start":11208.776,"end":11217.587,"text":"然後是由律師事務所承接對 然後其實他們也可以初步也可以做一些查詢的工作嘛不見得全部都要都丟給地方去做啊"},{"start":11219.89,"end":11242.417,"text":"我們人力也不太夠耶怎麼你們都編那麼多錢成立打黃牛辦公室國家隊耶他主要是那個程序沒有啦不講我們現在是把這個問題提出來因為黃牛大家都深惡痛絕那不要因為什麼中央地方權責什麼人力這種東西讓黃牛沒辦法打下去嘛這其實影響的是消費者的權益啦"},{"start":11242.657,"end":11269.882,"text":"因為打黃牛這也是文化部既定政策而且我們文創法也修了嘛法律也有配套所以現在應該思考說在質詢過程如何讓它更完美嘛那現在的問題就是第一結果確實不好因為增加的件數不多第二個其實是卡在人力不足造成結案率很低這些問題我們都看到了所以當然文化部應該針對這些問題提出一個解決的方法嘛才能讓打黃牛這個事情比較順利啦"},{"start":11272.624,"end":11295.711,"text":"長遠看的話這個問題應該是有地方上編預算把這個人力再補助長遠怎麼樣我希望說你們去找地方政府討論因為現在你也不能說中央怪地方地方怪中央然後事情沒得做然後大家黃牛就是一直存在我覺得這的確是一直存在好不好部長我希望快一點因為文創法修法也好幾年了"},{"start":11297.077,"end":11318.215,"text":"這個可不可以提出一個檢討的報告出來可以嗎部長可不可以檢討報告不好意思委員這邊是希望我們跟地方大聲一點我聽不見委員這邊是希望我們再跟地方政府討論一下現在問題已經提出來給你們了啊然後對啊你總是要提出一個解決的方法出來嘛可以嗎"},{"start":11321.089,"end":11335.222,"text":"多久其實黃柳的問題從我來上任以來委員你大概記得吧您的質詢一直在問黃柳其實我們已經到了行政院層級開了很多會然後跟每個部位都討論過"},{"start":11336.403,"end":11342.706,"text":"最後我們能夠執行就是就到地方去找每一個場館拜託在實名制的時候現在結果就是這樣嘛不然我們會一直在循環這些查證啊 警察抓完之後抓要罰錢啊然後他再來說怨啊不是 他會罰"},{"start":11354.45,"end":11382.839,"text":"不要去找理由啦 不想聰明的人找方法啦好不好現在的問題就是沒有解決那請大家針對問題想到一個方法來解決就是這樣子 好不好想一個解決方案出來啦 盡快啦好不好 不想好 盡快這個 叫你想一個方法解決問題本來就是你的工作啊 這個不是我對啊 它本來就是你的工作啊這個本來就是個難題 譬如說要處理啦 不然我們文創法是修心酸的喔"},{"start":11383.971,"end":11397.672,"text":"那現在就是卡在說人力不足然後結案率不到三分之一啊他結案率的問題太明顯了而且這個全國都這樣因為我剛剛講一個全國數字嘛我剛剛講全國數字一兩個月還增加15件而已那麼多人在檢舉好啦 部長這個問題要解決了這絕對不會是在"},{"start":11400.235,"end":11420.275,"text":"為難你啦這真的是要解決的問題啦然後再來我提醒幾件事情第一個是我們在平台上面賣黃牛票的狀況可能還是蠻嚴重可能要請你了解一下這個是六月份五月天的演唱會他的票在他的賣票系統上面都已經官方已經完售了可是我們有發現一個以前曾經媒體有報導過一個跨國的"},{"start":11423.24,"end":11439.055,"text":"票券的販售平台你可以看到他還是在這個平台上面還是買得到五月天的票喔而且一張票可以賣到九千塊啊這個很擺明就是黃油票因為有加價出售嘛那這個因為我不想幫這個平台打廣告所以我就把這個平台"},{"start":11441.474,"end":11467.648,"text":"隱蔽在上面討論演唱會門票的人是非常的踴躍而且曾經在2018年的時候有媒體報導過這個平台當時是直接把這個平台定位為黃牛票網站那我想因為2023年之後因為我們文創法修之後可能沒有那麼猖獗已經不敢那麼明目張膽但是他還是繼續以一個那個門票販售平台的形式經營只是平台形式經營就是會出現黃牛票"},{"start":11468.513,"end":11486.29,"text":"所以這個我們會後再提供給文化部像這種媒體報導過的然後民眾也關注的很知名的類似的平台文化部應該會有相關的訊息我不知道為什麼連這種東西都沒有我們其實剛才委員問的就是我們找過速發部去研究"},{"start":11487.45,"end":11515.568,"text":"檢舉裡面有7個常見的售票帳號有22篇文章速發部也協助我們把它下架基本上我們在剛剛委員所提的問題其實我們有非常努力的用各種方式去防堵包括其他部會的合作還有警政單位你們可以建議速發部成立一個APP因為他們之前有做一個打炸APP打了APP就是讓民眾去檢舉去APP檢舉然後他立刻會找相關單位回覆說這是不是一個詐騙"},{"start":11516.388,"end":11528.834,"text":"其實也可以弄一個APP就是打黃牛的只要有人看到黃牛資訊就趕快去APP他就可以自動回覆啊好 謝謝好 謝謝葉雲芝委員 部長請回接下來請范雲委員有請部長好 有請李部長"},{"start":11545.231,"end":11551.38,"text":"方委員你好部長早安我想首先就是針對黃牛我也想繼續追問下一頁"},{"start":11554.8,"end":11566.365,"text":"為什麼沒有辦法下一頁那其實我想林益景召委也在這裡我們從上一屆就一直在關心黃牛的議題那以我個人找出黃牛議題的追蹤記錄從一開始質詢文化部要求解決然後到擔任召委的時候辦過黃牛票的公聽會那後來終於我們排審了就在當時我排審的文創法的修法我們制定了黃牛條款"},{"start":11581.132,"end":11596.827,"text":"那後來也發現還是不夠所以又過了半年我提出預算案還有質詢要求文化部說明實名制的鼓勵因為當時你們主張要鼓勵還有二手票券的交易平台的規劃那到去年4月"},{"start":11597.547,"end":11617.482,"text":"我們發現其實已經有了黃牛檢舉專區就是你們文化部做的可是發現檢舉門檻所以也不一定要不用再去做什麼APP你們本來就有黃牛檢舉專區發現檢舉的門檻太高所以我兩次都要求文化部要降低可是今天 下一頁"},{"start":11618.803,"end":11635.752,"text":"就是這個部分我們就不用講了我們修法的內容那現在還是未成案比例太高所以問題是出在你們這個檢舉專區很多人認為說因為你要有就是座位的號碼所以讓大家變成是說要先成交然後才能檢舉成功"},{"start":11639.895,"end":11654.27,"text":"那這個部分下一頁就是我之前的質詢就是希望你們改這個檢舉黃牛專區的設計那當時你們也答應了就是說不需要先成交就可以檢舉"},{"start":11655.411,"end":11671.387,"text":"因為成交就更難了嘛那為什麼超過一年你們還是沒有修正喔那下一頁喔那你們給我們的公文就說文化部其實台北市政府也來問這個問題那你們有函附台北市政府說未成交也可以開罰"},{"start":11672.748,"end":11700.687,"text":"那但是呢很多人那重要是說你的相關的辦法也還沒改一個就是黃牛專區因為我們去查了一下其實你可以自己修正這個執法就是檢舉案件處理及獎勵辦法裡面規範了要座位號碼入場序號那不就等於要買成這個黃牛票才能夠嗎那你明明就可以去改變的部分那所以就發現你們沒有處理這個部分這是我今天第一個想問的問題下一頁"},{"start":11702.908,"end":11718.027,"text":"那第二个我觉得我们现在要聚焦问题当时我们鼓励你们做实名制因为日本的实名制就非常有名其实也证明实名制你们的给我们的报告中95%的检举是发生在没有实名制的"},{"start":11718.527,"end":11745.38,"text":"所以其實只要實名制 它就不會有這個部分可是我們現在看到的 譬如說周杰倫張學友這些在台北大巨蛋 還有包含高雄順暢還是有一些沒有實名制 再下一頁所以你鼓勵實名制已經有一些成效你核定的效果 目前的計畫是這樣所以下一頁所以我今天很具體的想問就是說第一個就實名制文化部如何繼續推動"},{"start":11746.641,"end":11771.921,"text":"那這些還沒有辦法譬如說小巨蛋這次他就有推出方案實名制可以享受活動日場租八五折這樣不是很好嗎那那個主辦單位他就會去考慮實名制那可是台北大巨蛋林口體育館還有其他的都還在研議所以是不是文化部第一個可以就實名制下一頁"},{"start":11773.37,"end":11796.603,"text":"未來的多場大型演唱會比如我自己也很喜歡的孫燕姿要來了大家有看到新聞喔那能不能夠採實名制然後困難在哪裡那在下一頁喔那還有我剛剛前面所講的其實你們自己的執法要修還有那個黃牛專區的平台的修改那部長是不是可以簡要回答我"},{"start":11799.881,"end":11815.456,"text":"一個是實名制目前還是有一些場館沒有辦法推動成功的那部長是不是可以更積極的去推動還有剛剛講你們只要修職法拿掉那些票卷等具體名稱的這個兩個事情是不是可以再精進再努力"},{"start":11815.856,"end":11841.597,"text":"好 謝謝其實我剛剛有在前面回答過就是實名制這個因為我沒辦法在法律上限制對 用鼓勵的我們其實都知道是要鼓勵的對 但是我們也很感謝各地方政府跟那些廠廣跟我們開會完他們也積極的盡量鼓勵用實名制那效果的確不錯就是大家可以看到那個增加的速度蠻快的然後我們也補助他另外他們也用那個"},{"start":11842.899,"end":11849.588,"text":"用獎勵的譬如你以實名字我就給你八五折那目前只有小巨蛋那這個部分我們會再來你們再精進好嗎那還有剛剛我講的說修職法那個部分還有你的檢舉黃流專區的改變這是不是可以簡單你們自己就可以做到的"},{"start":11859.045,"end":11885.118,"text":"這個好像很難很難嗎因為時間的緣故你們去研議然後可不可以一個月內再給本席報告呢相關的報告好嗎如果需要報告我們會再提供這邊先簡單說明一下之所以需要有這些檢舉資訊主要是因為我必須能夠循線追查地方政府他其實沒有任何可以去追索的線索的時候這些事情都沒有辦法做進一步的查證"},{"start":11886.158,"end":11906.29,"text":"那這樣有一個矛盾啦因為你們給台北市的公文說不需要買成票嘛就是跟委員報告其實現在其實我們也一直在跟民眾消費者大眾其實在呼籲其實現在網路上有非常多他宣稱他有票但他無法提供票號或是座位號的時候實際上他可能就是99.9%是詐騙所以基本上我們不鼓勵不鼓勵買黃牛票這個矛盾是在哪裡不用買成票就可以檢舉可是黃牛專區卻要有詳細的票號"},{"start":11915.575,"end":11940.334,"text":"那個沒有買成的他其實是有跟對方詢問你是不是可以給我看你的票號那他其實提供票號之後我們這邊就可以追查到那他也是就是道高一尺磨高一丈他可能就知道要檢舉那就給我相關報告好不好如何精進這兩件事還沒有辦法實名制的場館提出誘因那另外就是說有沒有辦法不需要票號就檢舉我是覺得還是要再努力一下"},{"start":11941.255,"end":11968.539,"text":"那另外一題下一頁就是國家人權博物館的組織法這是我跟今天的解凍案有關的那我當時跟大家一起並動一百萬就是明明就是有第二條本館長理威權時期相關人權檔案等之典藏研究展示及教育等所以關於政治檔案就是威權時期的人權檔案這個部分部長了解下一頁"},{"start":11969.139,"end":11992.992,"text":"那所以我當時我的預算希望你們能夠針對就是當時的政治監控檔案提出研究或服務的計劃研究就是說能夠有人去研究是最好的不管是鼓勵或是你們的研究員服務計劃就是說也許有很多人不知道怎麼去看政治檔案怎麼去了解像你們有辦過的工作坊就相當不錯嘛下一頁"},{"start":11994.195,"end":12004.584,"text":"那可是你們回給我的好像是模擬兩可可救 可救不代表要研究那第三個說你們已經研究的可是你們已經研究這個是以不易移植的空間為主體的政治檔案跟我所講的是以受害者為主體的政治檔案是不太一樣的我覺得這個非常好以不易移植"},{"start":12015.754,"end":12031.801,"text":"是安康接待所金門歷史長旨那可是有更多的譬如說軍中的政治檔案這些其實並沒有被抓去關的或者在抓去關之前它其實也有相關的政治檔案的那這部分"},{"start":12032.801,"end":12053.015,"text":"那我下一頁譬如說這是你們目前有做的那我覺得第三個部分這個政治檔案解讀工作坊就非常好報名就馬上截止了馬上報滿應該要繼續辦那再下一頁那跟部長講分享一下經濟學人最近有刊出這一期都是台灣專題有一個專題是講台灣的政治檔案"},{"start":12056.317,"end":12074.63,"text":"他說我們的政治檔案疊起來等於是六倍的高塔就是六倍的101的高度這算起來是多少量啊所以現在我們的研究跟有知還是非常非常的少那因為國家人權博物館幾乎就是促轉會解散後非常少數能夠針對人權檔案做研究的"},{"start":12080.874,"end":12096.736,"text":"所以是不是能夠請人權管,我知道你們的預算有些被煽動那更加積極的在你們能夠努力的範圍內去研究政治檔案並向大眾推廣怎麼去申請使用看這些政治檔案好嗎?這個部長可以答應嗎?"},{"start":12097.953,"end":12125.968,"text":"其實我們的預算真的少到我來做才發現非常少所以他能夠做的東西包括他空間的不易移植等但是研究我們會往下做好那針對我剛講的不是以移植的空間而是以受害者為核心你們可以去用訪談或者工作坊教大家怎麼做多給我們一點預算我們可以增加人力我們一定願意多給你們因為這個部分我自己看我們的預算編列這個人權管真的非常少"},{"start":12126.348,"end":12140.984,"text":"那如果不夠的話部長明年也可以自己再增加預算這個部分我覺得繼續要增加因為這次有些被刪掉了才會有人力但是開始規劃是必要的那是不是也可以一個月內可以給我一個規劃的報告好嗎可以嗎其實我們有待做謝謝 感謝謝謝部長"},{"start":12150.316,"end":12159.217,"text":"好 謝謝范雲委員 部長請回那我們接下來要來處理解凍專案報告案喔那我們先休息三分鐘"},{"start":12423.786,"end":12433.403,"text":"好 各位同仁我們現在開始開會那我們現在來處理解凍專案報告案第一案至二十案請議事委員宣讀"},{"start":12437.209,"end":12445.871,"text":"1.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議2.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議"},{"start":12465.629,"end":12494.519,"text":"二六九預算凍結專案報告請查詐案四文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第十九十九款第六項新增決議單一五預算凍結專案報告請查詐案五文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第十九款第九項新增決議三二四預算凍結專案報告請查詐案六文化部函"},{"start":12495.659,"end":12517.73,"text":"為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第十九款第九項新增決議三二七預算凍結專案報告請查這案七文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議十一預算凍結專案報告請查這案八文化部函為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議十四預算凍結專案報告請查這案"},{"start":12524.71,"end":12545.808,"text":"10.文化部函為1.14年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部新增決議279預算視覺及表演藝術之策劃與發展預算凍結百分之十專案報告請查詐案11.文化部函為1.14年度中央政府總預算決議減送文化資產局新增決議290預算凍結專案報告請查詐案12."},{"start":12549.847,"end":12556.533,"text":"文化部函為一四年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第十九款第四項新增決議306預算凍結專案報告請查詐案"},{"start":12560.668,"end":12572.399,"text":"13.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送稅出第19款第5項新增決議310業務費預算凍結30%專案報告請查詐案14.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議減送該部決議12預算凍結專案報告請查詐案"},{"start":12583.63,"end":12600.226,"text":"15.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部新增決議223預算凍結專案報告,請查詐案16.文化部函為114年度中央政府總預算決議檢送該部新增決議235文化資源業務預算凍結專案報告,請查詐案"},{"start":12604.83,"end":12624.983,"text":"十七 文化部函為一一四年度專案政府總預算決議檢送該部新增決議二九八預算凍結專案報告請查詐案十八 文化部函為一一四年度專案政府總預算決議檢送國立台灣博物館新增決議三二零預算凍結專案報告請查詐案十九 文化部函"},{"start":12625.923,"end":12644.823,"text":"為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國立台灣史前文化博物館新增決議三二三預算凍結專案報告請查詐案二十文化不含為一一四年度中央政府總預算決議檢送國立台灣文學館新增決議三三二預算凍結專案報告請查詐案宣讀完畢"},{"start":12646.783,"end":12670.004,"text":"好那我們來一案一案處理齁那第一案第一案凍結百分之二十兩千零四十七萬五千元對對對對剛宣讀完了嘿對好那第一案第一案大家有沒有意見各位委員"},{"start":12671.308,"end":12687.945,"text":"第一案 沒有意見 那就準以動之提報院會好 第二案 第二案是凍結30%2億3千208萬元第二案有什麼意見沒有好 那我們請柯政委員 再來請萬美玲委員"},{"start":12688.886,"end":12715.123,"text":"好 因为第二案我说现在预算的解冻真的是包山包海第二案大家比较关切刚刚有很多委员人质询就有关于黄牛票的部分我当然也问了文化部他也给我一些检举案的资料谢谢文化部但是我还是要讲还是没有办法告诉我对于黄牛的猖狂到底我们文化部有没有比较积极的一个做法"},{"start":12715.663,"end":12739.698,"text":"因为你虽然调列的非常多像检举数等等之类的我也看了但是呢我还是要提出这两个样态当中有关于这个加价的转售的案件当中不好意思成案率只有26%而且你的裁罚率带只有6%而已这个东西竟没有也还是没有太大的一个改进那有关于像你说不正方式的这个案件像什么机器人这些等等等等更惨"},{"start":12740.959,"end":12766.247,"text":"它这个成案率只有2%然后呢你的起诉率大概也只有7%所以对于文化部给本席的这样子的一个回应好像还是没有在我们当初要冻结时希望你们能拿出一个更积极的做法所以这部分呢我们还是要再请文化部是否可以给我们更正向的一个回应好不好因为这个回应还是没有当初我们冻结的理由上面还是没有办法厘清我们的疑虑了"},{"start":12768.612,"end":12781.839,"text":"好 這個案子好像是Town Plus的案 第二案不好意思 理解錯誤那我們再先請萬美玲委員"},{"start":12784.027,"end":12797.585,"text":"好 謝謝昭緯我想徵求昭緯的同意我想我等一下就是針對第二案 第三案跟第七案其實是還有相關的我想我都是同時講一下因為二 三 七我想昭緯應該也知道好"},{"start":12798.626,"end":12819.884,"text":"那第一個就是我們針對這個公視還有這個台灣plus的這個預算凍結案我們可以看到這個文化部提出來的報告其實很多那裡面也列舉了不管是在公視的主評還有我們小公視或者是台語台在過去有很多很豐碩的成果包括了金馬獎啦或者影展得獎作品等等我想我們都相當的肯定"},{"start":12820.584,"end":12832.376,"text":"但是這一些其實大概都是過去我們拍攝的一個成果我們比較聚焦報告上比較聚焦可能在過去的一些榮光但是我們希望更可以看到的就是我們對於未來的經濟以及我們相關的檢討能不能更仔細更詳細在這份報告當中"},{"start":12838.502,"end":12862.251,"text":"其實本席很仔細的看過我們對於未來規劃的這個描述上面我覺得還是略顯薄弱那針對這次解凍案我們最關鍵在公視的新聞及節目製作上面的相關成效還有我們在委員會審查的時候提出來的很多的問題我想這個文化部雖然有大概提到那我希望在還有三個比較核心的問題上面那能夠得到更明確的答覆"},{"start":12862.651,"end":12879.841,"text":"第一個就是在這個台灣Plus我們在這個歐美這個低觀看率的部分還有內容定位的問題我們是不是已經完成了觀眾需求調查還有策略的調整那尤其是我們現在又針對了看到了美國關稅政策的一個衝擊會不會有一些其他的變化"},{"start":12881.042,"end":12908.662,"text":"再来就是我们看到我们影剧产业透过台湾Plus的播出会不会也有相关的课税有没有一些影响那这些能不能够再说得更仔细一点那第二个部分也就是在我们新闻内容曾经因为有一些新闻这个节目的事件那可能有一些比较偏颇的立场的部分那有影响到一些相关的我国形象我们也要求了公司要能够强化新闻编采的标准跟内控的一个机制哦"},{"start":12909.122,"end":12935.027,"text":"所以我們還沒有看到尤其是我們文化部有提到說我們的做法上就是要加強教育訓練延攬台一級的主編來加入研議制定國際新聞直播的一個準則專章可是呢我想本席在看的時候還是沒有看到我們到底要怎麼強化公視的節目暨新聞自律委員會對於新聞直播確保客觀性跟中立性的一個方案那另外"},{"start":12936.627,"end":12955.787,"text":"我想这文化部提到的国际新闻直播准则要这个相关的研拟这个进度上面是什么什么时候可以完成这个部分呢也希望文化部能够再说清楚一些那第三个我们看到我们在预算的执行透明度跟责任的机制上面看起来还仍显不足"},{"start":12956.508,"end":12981.667,"text":"那是不是能夠看到這個台灣Plus我們歷年的預算是非常龐大的可是相關的資金的分配還有我們內容的採購的流程以及成效的評估等等的資訊公開是不足的所以過去都是看到在公視的一個董事會那我們外界其實難以全面的來了解跟監督那現在我們在報告上有說到說要把這個年度的報告"},{"start":12982.307,"end":12990.174,"text":"要放在我們公共電視的官方網站當中年報跟訊息的專區想要充分地去公開具體的成果"},{"start":12991.533,"end":13020.846,"text":"可是我必須要請教一下部長就是說我們實際到底會揭露哪些內容怎麼揭露還有過去我們台灣PLUS這個KPI的這個指標的修訂我們把下載數改成觀看數跟滿意度那其實我想是不是可以建議我們應該要主動建立定期可以查核的制度以及我們公平這個公開這個平台這個流量還有我們觀眾分析的相關的數據也就是說我們可不可以把今天你提出來一個大方向"},{"start":13021.246,"end":13047.958,"text":"更落實起來所以我想我們的預算其實是人民納稅前我想我們要嚴格的監督落實的執行這個是最重要的所以在這裡我也特別提出來說我們今天的解凍案子我想今天文化部提出了很詳細的說明我們也很仔細的去了解原則上我們都是支持但我希望能不能在解凍的部分我剛剛提到那幾項我們請文化部可以督促公視在三個月內"},{"start":13048.718,"end":13063.49,"text":"可以完成對外公布關於我們提到的國際新聞製播準則而且能夠針對我們台灣PLUS的國際行銷成效還有收視表現跟觀眾那個…是不是那個…我們可不可以稍微…謝謝"},{"start":13065.371,"end":13080.903,"text":"因為我怕部長聽不太清楚我們現在跟他提的要求所以拜託一下各位同仁謝謝你們就是最重要的就是這一點我們請文化部督促公視三個月內完成對外公布國際新聞製播準則這個很重要因為也是文化部提的另外針對台灣Plus的國際行銷的成效收視表現還有觀眾輪廓能夠進一步來做評估"},{"start":13086.508,"end":13095.304,"text":"讓我們的委員會能夠更清楚知道這個補充報告三個月之內麻煩文化部能夠把它提出來以上等一下請文化部做一個回答 謝謝"},{"start":13097.554,"end":13123.36,"text":"好 我想是一案一案是因為萬有委員說他就是一併他是一併把二三七一起講 等於是他第三案跟第七案基本上就不發言了嘛 是這個意思 對不對那好 那我現在還是第二案喔 好不好第二案喔 齁好 這樣第二案那就吳立華委員 劉淑冰委員 柯子恩委員 好"},{"start":13127.006,"end":13147.909,"text":"謝謝主席針對第二案這個台灣Plus我其實也有收看那我之前質詢的時候也有提到過因為我們都知道台灣Plus它標榜要掌握國際話語權向世界傳播這個台灣的觀點但是我經常看到裡頭的一些內容例如像原住民小朋友"},{"start":13148.49,"end":13161.444,"text":"穿著竹符喝珍奶講華語我想華語怎麼說全世界很多人都聽得出來但是當台灣的原住民小朋友穿著竹符然後講著華語"},{"start":13164.146,"end":13188.042,"text":"說起來就是他其實是把原住民的文化當作是客體而不是一個主體所以在這個部分我就是想要請文化部這邊具體的說明一下一旦涉及到不同的族群文化跟族群語言的這種內容那未來會怎麼去強化它的品質然後尊重族群的主體性那當我們在跟世界發聲的時候能夠去傳達一種正確的台灣觀點 謝謝"},{"start":13193.413,"end":13211.96,"text":"好 我們接下來請劉淑冰委員好 謝謝昭葦早上的詢答當中已經有提到關於黃油票採實名制這一部分有一些成果但是在沒有採取實名制的活動"},{"start":13213.48,"end":13230.393,"text":"影視藝文這部分的情況呢卻有八千件的檢舉那文化部部長他也提到說這個人力是否足夠的問題也是很大然後警察機關配合這部分他也是承認這個很大很大的問題他覺得這個包括後來什麼定罪等等的都是"},{"start":13231.966,"end":13246.12,"text":"曠日廢時那這邊等於說文化部認為是一個很大的一個能力沒辦法支應的狀況那怎麼樣的可是文化部卻沒有對於說怎麼樣的再去處理這些部分尤其是目前只有說80場是針對有"},{"start":13248.863,"end":13268.561,"text":"實名制的部分 可是可能還有上百場沒有實名制的這個情況那就是產生這樣才8000件的因此要詢問的是針對文化部這邊對在做檢舉的案件上面的這個處理我覺得應該要做更深度的有些時程上面的一些回應 不然的話其實這個部分造成一個是更多的問題出現"},{"start":13270.695,"end":13299.369,"text":"好 谢谢再请柯志恩委员对 因为我刚刚特别提到的这个第二项这真的是包山包海那既然是扯到这个台湾Plus那我们当然就把有关台湾Plus的部分也可以稍微提出来那第三案其实也跟这个都是有关系那就成如我上次所提到的但是我觉得在这一次的解冻当中并没有针对我的问题提出我希望能够得到的一个答案希望利用这一次的机会像我上次就特别提到的"},{"start":13299.949,"end":13326.525,"text":"很多内部上面里面的一些的检举就说它是完全是高于市价的外包的制作费那节目部都是外包成本高的惊人那这一块我不晓得台湾plus的相关单位有没有要来做一个澄清的还有呢我上次也特别提到因为去年度的预算花不完然后呢113年度的预算还剩下一亿多然后呢还跟文化部有做这个预算延约的这个程序"},{"start":13327.085,"end":13349.258,"text":"也就是说你还有半年要处理去年花不完的钱然后你现在要告诉我们还要更多的那这样的一个预算的控管还有这个管理的部分显然在给我的回应上面并没有让我得到某种程度的澄清所以我个人觉得还有包括上一次这个内部的检举的信函当中我比较遗憾的是经过这么久的时间在质询台上问了这些问题我都没有得到这个"},{"start":13353.16,"end":13365.094,"text":"立即的一個回應我想利用這次機會在解凍案的部分請這個文化部一併來做一個說明 謝謝好 如果沒有其他委員有意見的話那我就請文化部來回答部長"},{"start":13369.275,"end":13369.835,"text":"好 那我們請胡董事長嗎"},{"start":13393.344,"end":13413.552,"text":"謝謝委員指教 關於台灣Plus的改革的部分我們事實上董事會在剛剛5月份的董事會經過深入的討論奠基於前面我們有一個三人小組的調查案這個調查報告提出來之後然後經過我們的台灣Plus提出一個改善方案 一共有四項"},{"start":13414.372,"end":13437.22,"text":"然後董事會同時也通過了一些相關的決議希望能夠貫徹新階段的改革這所有的資料我們都可以提供那在方向上基本上就是包括媒體定位內容策略新聞資源跟主管聆聘這些東西我們都已經提出一些改革方案希望在未來的三個月內能夠逐步落實跟委員做個說明那如果需要這些資料我們都可以提供好是"},{"start":13443.652,"end":13459.6,"text":"有關於其中的一部分那您還要就是關於您剛才提到說有一部分內部的組織還有同仁提出的一個檢舉等等相關的事項所以現在已經有了對不對對就是剛剛本月份的董事會通過可以立即給你沒有問題"},{"start":13462.789,"end":13474.925,"text":"那董事長我還說你們可以立即給我為什麼要我提出來你們才給我因為在這次解凍案之前就應該先給我們就是剛剛這個月的董事會才通過對所以現在才你們董事會這個月董事會什麼時候開五月的"},{"start":13479.76,"end":13501.995,"text":"四月董事会现在是5月7号我们董事会还有会计还经过每一位董事的确认他有一个流程这个是我上次在质询台上面就是一个要解冻案的先决条件那意思说我如果今天坐在这个地方不提出这个部分你四月份开完董事会我现在不提出你就不会给我了吗"},{"start":13502.588,"end":13522.866,"text":"不會啊 我們這些東西還沒有經過 剛剛已經報告 它有一個process這個流程還沒有經過 我們會正式對外公開的所以你要make sure就是你裡面包含我剛剛所提到的有關於外包的製作費有關於這個113年就剩1億的這個預算延約這些都可以在你要給我的報告當中都會有清楚的呈現 是不是"},{"start":13523.186,"end":13548.118,"text":"有關於您所謂的外包製作費的部分我們現在馬上就可以做說明但有一個部分您剛才提到說延續這個部分其實公廣集團的其他的單位也都常常有一些預算因為這是影視製作裡面所發生的一個問題它不可能在所有的流程都能夠發生說確定的掌握所以它會在處理上它都有一些預算要保留到未來"},{"start":13548.638,"end":13558.669,"text":"所以他不是一個唯一的這個狀況那當然他們怕是這次數字是比較大那這個等一下原因什麼我們請那個執行長可以很快的解說一下好來麻煩"},{"start":13561.343,"end":13582.649,"text":"跟委員報告很快就是您上次有提到就是跟國際合作像是Discovery那個那最主要因為在台灣Plus成立第一年的時候還沒有在國外落地那在台灣Plus還沒有落地之前要委託Discovery來播映就需要當地的落地的這個費用以及當地的這個Channel的費用因此在第一年費用比較高的原因是在這裡那第二年之後我們就"},{"start":13583.469,"end":13599.963,"text":"減了變成七成的比例因為我們可以自行落地第三年就沒有再繼續合作這第一件事情第二個有關您講預算沒有完全用完是因為去年我們跟文化部申請到獲得是只有七到十二月也就是去年只有六個月的製作期所以六月製作期在"},{"start":13600.563,"end":13617.642,"text":"六個月簽約以後跟日本韓國啟動國際合作的簽約花了大概兩三個月才成案所以這一億多大概其中大部分是包含跟日本韓國新加坡以及跟歐洲的丹麥德國合作的費用所以他要一個negotiate一個談判期會比較長那今年六月以前都會完成"},{"start":13618.413,"end":13640.9,"text":"六月前都会完成那我是不是先呈现你刚刚解释Discovery的部分你说第一年当然付出的成本比较高第二年就会变成七成你说第三年怎么样我们就没有再合作续办了因为我们可以自己制字或者是做其他的节目来替代所以说两年还是花六千万目前为止你觉得这个部分应该是合理的吗"},{"start":13641.38,"end":13667.618,"text":"因为第一年真的是比较高因为它含在Discovery的频道我们在东南亚地区一共有大概六个国家播映这个费用他们有依照Discovery的报价那这报价都经过公共电视的采购合法的所以你应该告诉我们从第三年开始你就因为有了六千万的投资所以第三年开始你们就可以有办法自制了是这样的一个概念吗对 相关类似的主题我们可以自己来处理就没有再委托Discovery了"},{"start":13669.073,"end":13696.671,"text":"好 OK所以兩年六千萬這個部分好因為它東南亞上架費依照它的報價然後再經過議價程序我們依法再跟它所以你認為這樣的支出還是合理的其實國際的媒體的價格是有一定的行情我們就依照它的報價來處理好那你的問題有沒有得到解決好 那這樣如果沒有其他委員有問題的話那是不是我們第二案"},{"start":13698.038,"end":13710.788,"text":"就准予動之提報院會好那我們現在處理第三案第三案也是TOMPLUS還有這個公共電視的一些預算那凍結25%5億7千151萬2千元這案有沒有意見委員"},{"start":13721.513,"end":13742.413,"text":"好 那我們請吳佩奕委員有 這個第三在我們報告當中就是第307頁嘛 是不是這個因為我剛質詢的時候有提到當初的這個提案人是陳玉珍委員國民黨的黨團然後這個提案的理由是講台灣Plus但是其實這一筆預算的項目是公式"},{"start":13744.2,"end":13762.931,"text":"所以你看後面文化部提供的報告說明都是關於公視的業務內容因為有很多國人都很關切所以我還是希望可以請因為如果提案委員不在國民黨黨團的委員是不是可以來協助說明一下這當初的提案理由是不是有錯誌如果有錯誌的話我覺得應該要去說明因為不然這樣浪費大家時間其實我們今天不需要做這一案的專案報告的"},{"start":13769.935,"end":13777.842,"text":"因為這個裡面的內容根本跟台灣PLUS無關結果我們竟然在這邊看這個這個凍結預算理由跟用那種完全不搭桿的東西就浪費大家的時間所以我還是希望可以說明清楚有沒有國民黨的委員可以協助說明呢不好意思喔你們很多民進黨黨團提出來也不見得民進因為你不是屬於我們教文的委員也不是每一個黨團提出來你們每一個委員都可以回應喔對這個問題來說我覺得配議委員不需要直指國民黨的黨團的人"},{"start":13798.439,"end":13824.559,"text":"因为对于第三案来说我想第三案举手表决但是基本上面里面的一些内容的部分我还是讲你要我们要做这个部分我想陈玉珍委员当初是提案人他没有过来然后很显然就是他也看到了这个公示所以给予他的这样的一个回应他没有意见那请问我们需要个人还要再做出什么样的部分吗你好像直指我们必须要做出什么样的回应对"},{"start":13824.859,"end":13850.315,"text":"有需要這個有需要這樣子的一個必要嗎有需要這個必要那好那我們是不是候得住請陳玉珍委員過來的時候我們再來看看這案是不是要解凍我覺得這也是一種方法我想我在這邊個人要表達如果要這樣子的話那我們是不是就請當初的提案委員過來選擇陳玉珍委員我們到處是候在這邊嘛亂刪亂碰對不起那如果是這樣的話那我們第三個就暫時我對於解凍是沒有意見但是我還是認為必須要表達清楚因為事實上這一案今天是不應該再進行解凍專案報告的"},{"start":13851.756,"end":13856.978,"text":"因為當時提案的理由根本跟這個業務內容無關啊那如果是這樣子那我們尊重當初的提案委員我們當然不必代言當時提案委員來回答但是我希望大家可以就是了解清楚說我們現在因為我們不應該就是就是大家很鄉愿住在這邊假裝沒有這件事啊因為這個文化部提供的內容"},{"start":13870.283,"end":13876.749,"text":"公事內容根本跟當初委員凍結的理由是不同的啊那我要講的時候必須指出來那我們就請黨團請陳玉珍委員過來吧那我們就暫時候得住吧如果要是要這樣子你們剛剛也特別提到不需要其他委員代外回答的確這是委員會審查的一個機制我尊重不需要"},{"start":13886.977,"end":13908.524,"text":"我並不是要請委員代表回答但是我要表達我的意見沒有問題 可是剛剛配音的一個記錄對 但是你剛剛也特別提到說國民黨黨團要代表來回應嘛那我們黨團 我目前的提案就是說黨團可以代表回應的就是我們陳玉珍委員那我們是不是這一案就暫時候得住這麼大部分大家有意見來 呼叫陳玉珍委員過來吧等她沒有過來我們就暫時候得住這個主席你才是吧"},{"start":13909.164,"end":13928.493,"text":"好了我們先請范議員發言我真的覺得我們已經為了陳一貞委員浪費很多的時間那現在解凍非常的重要那但是我要講一下陳一貞委員一個人是沒有辦法讓一個預算的提案通過了是當天藍白都一起投票所以大家都有責任那今天我們個人我想我們剛剛吳沛委員是要表達一個很大的不滿跟譴責啦"},{"start":13932.935,"end":13945.255,"text":"那我們不想浪費時間那我想我們繼續下去那這個東西都會會議記錄那也希望大家可以廣為告知那我要再次提醒他的提案如果沒有藍牌的就是說支持跟舉手是不會通過的"},{"start":13946.94,"end":13963.646,"text":"好 我想伍佩奕委員很明顯啦就是對於當初的提案委員做一些這個譴責跟不滿那沒關係 我想今天我們就是實際上解決問題嘛我們今天就是要針對這個第三案來解凍那好 外媒林委員"},{"start":13964.506,"end":13990.391,"text":"我想我來補充一下因為我想我們在委員會在審查文化部預算的時候我也是召委那我們花了很多的時間我想不管是國民黨的委員或者是民進黨的委員或者是在當時我們民眾黨的委員我們對於每一筆每一筆的預算我們都盡我們的職責我們看得很清楚也問得很詳細所以每一個我們有刪除的預算或有凍結的預算其實在當時文化部其實也都接受"},{"start":13990.851,"end":14019.037,"text":"所以我想我們從過去到現在大家在這個教育文化委員會非常非常的久幾乎都是很久那我們其實都很認真在做喔那所以我想我再發言我們互相尊重一下因為呢我們教育文化委員會現在真的彼此都非常尊重啦那我也很這個贊成剛才昭緯所講的今天呢昭緯排案其實很清楚就是針對解凍案而且我必須要講我們各部會我們文化部的解凍案我們也是第一個出來做的"},{"start":14019.517,"end":14044.797,"text":"那針對過去就是小野部長我們林遠部長所提的有一些治癌難行的地方我們就馬上重新來審視那今天我們應該要趕快針對解斷的部分來看一看提出來的報告跟說明我們教育文化委員會所有這麼認真的委員我們能不能接受有沒有什麼地方我們是要再良性的告訴他說提出來的地方可能還不夠什麼地方要去再仔細再看那如果是沒有問題的那我們就把它解凍掉"},{"start":14045.498,"end":14064.696,"text":"这也是过去这么多届这么多年教育文化委员会一直来做的就是这样的事情我想没有人要刻意去刁难那当然大家对于事情的看法有不同的情绪跟表达我觉得我都是充分尊重但我是建议这个召委是不是能够回到我们在这个预算解冻的部分来做以上谢谢"},{"start":14066.052,"end":14085.288,"text":"好 那我們就實際上來處理這個案子啦 柯真委員那這樣子的話 第三案如果沒有其他委員有其他意見 那文化部是不是要回覆沒有要回覆 因為跟台灣plus跟安古回覆也差不多了齁那如果第三案沒有意見的話 那我們就准予動之提報院會"},{"start":14086.53,"end":14105.142,"text":"好 那我們現在來進行第四案 第四案是凍結50%然後凍結一億兩千八百二十六萬六千元那這個案子是公益中心優惠的凍結那有沒有 委員有什麼意見"},{"start":14106.704,"end":14118.077,"text":"那沒有 那我們這個案子就逐一動之 提報院會好 那我們接下來進行第五案第五案是凍結30% 凍結了5788萬4千元那是有關於人權管 人權管的相關預算 有沒有什麼問題"},{"start":14128.735,"end":14156.818,"text":"好 沒有那我們第五案我們就逐一動之提報院會好 我們進行第六案第六案是有關於也是人權管人權管的問題那有沒有委員有意見第六案是凍結三百萬元沒有好 沒有 謝謝那我們就逐一動之提報院會好 第七案第七案是凍結了五千萬元"},{"start":14159.435,"end":14160.658,"text":"是我們委員會的 對"},{"start":14163.174,"end":14187.966,"text":"沒有那個 對不起啊 第七案剛剛那個我們的胡董事長已經跟我解釋因為我就是在諮詢台上不但提到這個新創公司的這樣的一個意見雖然它不在預算當中但是那也是文化部來撥款給我們公視那麻煩就是請你們在這個成案之後就是未來是否可以在這個就是我們的公視董事會成立完之後是否把你們更細節的一個問題再交一份報告給本委員可以嗎第七案的部分"},{"start":14191.946,"end":14193.607,"text":"第七案是有關於影視及流行音樂的業務"},{"start":14229.721,"end":14254.07,"text":"OK喔 當然啊 對不對可以嘛 通過完之後就給本席一份更細節的一個部分嘛好 謝謝好 那藉由這個案子我也提醒一下就是有關於這個華氏資產活化的這個問題喔我想這個問題其實部長也對這個事情有很大的這個想法所以我想這個應該是要好好的在"},{"start":14255.27,"end":14279.814,"text":"進步的思考那個資產要怎麼樣去這個看是不是要買回民股或者資產要怎麼樣活化我想這個應該要在你的院內要來解決這個問題不能這樣放著不管部長OK好 那這個案子第七案如果沒有意見我們就遵禦動之提報院會好 第八案第八案是凍結五千萬元"},{"start":14285.501,"end":14298.905,"text":"是有關於對 有沒有意見傳譯中心好 那如果沒有意見的話我們就準以動之提報院會第九案第九案凍結了30%凍結了8億6607萬6千元是文化部"},{"start":14308.652,"end":14334.086,"text":"全部的業務費 八億多好 有沒有委員有什麼意見 第九案好 那我們文化部的業務費我們就解凍好 主委動之 提報院會第十案 第十案是凍結了一億兩千七百三十萬六千元第十案有沒有意見"},{"start":14336.408,"end":14351.804,"text":"好 沒有意見 第十案是公共藝術經費喔好 那沒有意見我們就逐一動之提報院會第十一案 十一案凍結了30%凍結了兩億三千八百四十一萬四千元是有關於文資局"},{"start":14353.615,"end":14367.461,"text":"文資局的相關預算有沒有意見好 那沒有意見我們就諸語動之提報院會第十二案 凍結30%凍結了1億7千2百5十萬第十二案是傳譯中心業務費好 沒有意見我們就諸語動之提報院會第十三案凍結了1億1千3百5十7萬5千元是有關於國美館業務費"},{"start":14384.462,"end":14394.654,"text":"好 沒有那我們就終於動之 提報院會第十四案 凍結了一千萬元是有關於這個是我們委員會的"},{"start":14399.773,"end":14421.92,"text":"第14案我有意见好我们柯子恩委员因为这个委员会的部分我不是说要如何我只是希望因为部长当初也特别提到了嘛这个一次12块你自己是个受害者嘛对不对部长还记得我们之间对话那我还是要了解说到底这样子的部分里面电子书的部分里面明年要怎么去做那"},{"start":14422.58,"end":14448.522,"text":"第一次質詢的時候我們就希望部長能夠跟出版業者來做一個座談那我不知道部長到底跟他們談了沒有到底舉辦多少場能有多少的出版社來做一個參與因為最主要原因是計次案最主要的目的是我們要擴大來做閱讀但不代表其中隱藏的這個問題是可以不用去改善的所以我覺得一次十二元看起來是已經沒有辦法撼動文化部的一個政策"},{"start":14448.982,"end":14469.023,"text":"但是我还是希望文化部能够提出比较有效的一个辅导的一个策略可以增加出版业因为出版业真的是寒冬已经增加出版业的一个收入不然出版业真的赚得非常的卑微这是我要特别提出呼吁的还有一个就是说有些时候你们在这个补助的部分当中很多时候"},{"start":14469.924,"end":14488.988,"text":"一些中小型的而且有很有特色但是很努力的這個出版社就好像拿不到這些的補助對他們來說也是非常的辛苦的所以我們只希望在這個文化產業上面真的是這個雖然已經沒有辦法拿到很多你看你現在告訴我就說你已經增加了133萬好像增加了9.6%但是加數也增加了9家"},{"start":14492.549,"end":14516.145,"text":"所以你没有办法拿到更多的补助要加入新的出版社变成一个州增多但是和尚更多嘛那你这个部分没有办法这个让出版社在文化产业里面有很多的贡献我觉得这个部分你们给我的回应当中我需要有个更具体的这个层面特别在电子书层面了特别说在这边书场会说在这边我当时想到第九届的时候我们曾经为这个出版业其实着力很多你有没有发现"},{"start":14516.946,"end":14542.447,"text":"第十一屆坐在這邊講的也是同樣的問題好不好請妳發表一下妳也是要請文化部多多來努力一下為什麼我們第九屆講的事情到第十一屆講的還是一模一樣妳沒發現好不然妳坐在這邊幹嘛不讓妳發表一下好像也對妳說不太多她等待臨時提案在議委員好好好好我們是不是妳還有便當可以吃我們都還沒有妳要不要吃一下文化部要不要回覆柯之恩委員的問題"},{"start":14547.284,"end":14575.406,"text":"你可以先回答一下然後你細節部分給我書面資料因為我覺得出版業真的是相當相當的辛苦啦好不好我知道你有更細節但是你現在有什麼問題可以趁這個時間也稍微說一下因為都有會議記錄的我沒什麼問題我只是努力其實我們到今年我們的所有那個補助啊策略其實只有增加沒有減少那出版業本身的感受也有覺得這一兩年我們給他們的活動費還有補助是更好的那你說韓東"},{"start":14576.727,"end":14595.099,"text":"它是整個出版都一直在往下滑跟電影一樣但是我們努力的在從去年到今年的補助是有增加我們是不是請市長報告一下好 那劉淑冰委員要發言 來"},{"start":14596.377,"end":14618.824,"text":"好 這一案的因為國家語言政策上邊凍結的理由是說希望跟國科會要密切合作充實TIDE的模型資料庫跟國家語言的應用想要目前了解一下我知道國科會是在開發這樣的一個資料庫而且我們實際上去參訪的時候有看到那可以提出來目前國家語言研究中心這邊對跟國科會的合作是什麼情況嗎簡單說一下"},{"start":14625.356,"end":14652.327,"text":"因為它好像在運用方面沒有被推廣這個中心並沒有還沒有成立因為那個法案還在立法院所以還沒有成立這個中心那為什麼會寫那已經說起來就如何整合現在都還沒有成立這個中心啊送到那個立法院還沒有審還沒有審對不對那為什麼因為它那個中心一旦設立它是個蠻大的蠻大的組織"},{"start":14653.717,"end":14679.504,"text":"好 那我們立法院可能這邊叫我們要再去就是財務議程再討論這邊那要成立起來才有可能對 沒錯要司法法制對 就是我們跟司法法制聯席對好 那就請昭緯或是兩位昭緯就是幫忙就是在這邊跟我們語言交易但是我發覺他還包括的是在原住民語言上面蠻重視的這邊是好事情好 謝謝好"},{"start":14681.425,"end":14693.954,"text":"好我們再來那如果這個是案沒有意見的話那我們就主語動之提報院會好再來第15案15案是凍結了1500萬元是有關於綜合規劃業務對國內團體的獎補助被凍結這個案子有沒有意見沒有好沒有意見那我們就主語動之提報院會第16案16案凍結了100萬元沒有"},{"start":14709.881,"end":14728.909,"text":"文化資源業務講到一百好輕鬆好沒有意見好那我們就準以動之提報院會第十七案凍結了三十趴一億兩千零四百一十萬八千元第十七案是有關於影視局的業務費"},{"start":14730.765,"end":14758.217,"text":"有沒有意見好 沒有意見好 那我們是七案也准予動之提報院會第十八案十八案是有關於這個國立台灣博物館凍結三十趴六千控七百五萬好 沒有意見好 那我們這一個案子也准予動之提報院會第十九案有關於國立台灣史前文化博物館"},{"start":14760.624,"end":14767.01,"text":"凍結了30% 5455萬2千元好 沒有意見齁那我們就主語動之 提報願會最後案 20案 台灣文學館凍結30% 5216萬2千元 沒意見好 主語動之 提報願會"},{"start":14783.51,"end":14800.126,"text":"好那我們接著就來處理臨時提案喔謝謝各位我們這個凍結案處理完畢臨時提案今天有兩案那我們請宣讀臨時提案第一案建議近期泰國藝人林光來台舉辦這見面會引發嚴重黃牛票爭議"},{"start":14805.441,"end":14829.812,"text":"引發社會廣泛關注然文化部對此回應指出依文化創意產業發展法之規定所謂藝文表演票券續指音樂、戲劇、舞蹈或其他形式之現場藝文表演並未將見面會、握手會等於偶像與粉絲互動性質之活動納入範疇致使此類票券無法受到本法第十條之一對黃牛票行為之規範"},{"start":14831.634,"end":14835.643,"text":"為實際見面會與握手會行事活動行事多元常態包括"},{"start":14837.81,"end":14861.527,"text":"歌唱 舞蹈 談話與舞台互動等現場表演內容其本質應屬於藝文演出這一環若以現行定義排除四類演出不僅無法有效二子詞類活動 黃牛現象亦以現行藝文產業脫節 致使法律出現漏洞因而影響台灣消費者權益 原此請文化部盡釋原意"},{"start":14862.307,"end":14891.081,"text":"文化創意產業發展法第十條之一明確將見面會、握手會等活動形式納入藝文表演定義之範疇使相關票券之交易與轉售行為得以依法管理並強化藝文演出市場秩序以觀眾權益保障提案人張雅琳、吳佩儀、陳秀寶、吳立華、李瑾、范雲、黃婕第二案文化創意產業發展法"},{"start":14892.338,"end":14909.988,"text":"修正條文於去年5月修正通過其中特別因應社會事件以及產業變化通過的打擊黃牛以及投資內容產業應享有租稅優惠的相關條文其中本法有關打擊黃牛之立法條文第10條之一於2023年6月2日實行"},{"start":14912.609,"end":14929.149,"text":"然近期卻出現貴部對於藝文表演的僵固解釋認為粉絲見面會之形式非文化創意產業發展法所規範之範圍然藝文表演形式眾多粉絲見面會脫口秀音樂會等皆為形式之一"},{"start":14929.77,"end":14945.12,"text":"因此建議貴部認定藝人表演時應以是否有售票行為為認定標準並積極打擊黃牛票券確保藝人表演票券正常流通提案人 蘇巧慧 吳佩儀 黃婕 倪怡瑾 陳秀寶 范雲 張雅琳選讀完畢"},{"start":14948.356,"end":14968.589,"text":"好我們現在處理第一案第一案提案員是張雅玲委員雅玲要不要提案說明一下好最主要就是說因為其實現在的見面會的場次非常非常多而且是年年增加那其實這裡面大家也可以非常清楚的看到大家在炒作這個見面會的一個黃牛票的問題所以我會認為見面會雖然好像"},{"start":14971.451,"end":14998.514,"text":"在現在的藝文表演票卷上面文化部認定他並不算是這個藝文表演但事實上在許多的見面會裡面都有許多表演不然是歌唱啦音樂戲劇等等而且因為作為一個演員他跟粉絲互動的一些方式就是透過這些表演的形式所以我還是希望我們文化部可以來把這件事情納入不然這樣等於是讓黃牛有機可乘啦這就是個很大的漏洞"},{"start":15000.401,"end":15023.642,"text":"好 我們黃協委員好 謝謝那我補充說明一下因為其實大家知道說現在的見面會啊 牽手會啊其實它表演的形式非常的多元然後甚至是有的是你買的時候並不知道現場會有什麼表演它可能是包裝在它的驚喜裡面它可能現場會有一些"},{"start":15024.142,"end":15050.858,"text":"舞蹈或是歌唱或者是它有更多多元形式的表演是粉絲的所以如果你現在沒有辦法放進去的話到時候這個黃牛的猖獗等於完全沒有辦法處理到我們當初文創法修法的意旨那再加上說如果你們是事後才認定那請問粉絲是要先買了這個黃牛票到時候你們認定了他們再來救濟嗎"},{"start":15053.263,"end":15077.506,"text":"所以我不太知道說當這些事情已經在發生了那到底要怎麼處理呢是你先到底是鼓勵粉絲事後再檢舉還是說事前就先不要買那事前不要買是請問是粉絲都不能去參加見面會不能參加握手會簽名會嗎是不是可以給大家一個指引所以我比較具體的建議還是既然"},{"start":15078.703,"end":15095.08,"text":"表演的形式就非常多元那是不是把這些見面會握手會這種只要是售票的行為如果售票的藝文表演如果它有轉售然後加價的行為都把它納入在黃牛開罰的範圍裡面呢"},{"start":15098.22,"end":15103.649,"text":"OK 我想知道因為第一案跟第二案這個內容幾乎上是一樣的所以我們就一併討論好不好所以我們先請我們再請第二案的蘇巧慧委員來再來是范雲委員好 謝謝"},{"start":15113.524,"end":15134.271,"text":"好 謝謝主席 主席英明我就是覺得應該兩岸乾脆一起說就好了我想我們今天不管是張雅玲委員的提案或者是我的提案其實我們簽名的各位委員幾乎兩岸都是一樣的代表了蘇巧慧 吳佩奕 黃婕甚至林玉璟 陳秀寶"},{"start":15138.563,"end":15154.704,"text":"這所謂大家的委員齁其實都是認為現在的藝文表演活動的形式其實有非常的多甚至是新增的包括像現在所謂的見面會握手會甚至是粉絲這個這個"},{"start":15156.446,"end":15183.066,"text":"粉絲見面會 脫口秀 音樂會都是藝文表演活動的形式之一而已那麼我們在跟文化部今天在討論以及爭執的就是我們在處理社會上大家厭惡的黃牛行為我們創立了這個我們創設了文化 文創法那這個法到底能不能包含這種這麼多元類型的活動"},{"start":15184.207,"end":15187.07,"text":"那針點就是我們認為他是藝文活動而且是表演活動那應該屬於本條本法規規範的項目裡面所以他是會被處理的黃牛行為那可是文化部舉"},{"start":15199.104,"end":15222.7,"text":"当时第十条之一的立法理由来跟委员们讨论辩证说当时在规定这些所谓的表演活动的时候是有明确的指出他用第二项来说本条所称艺文表演票券只针对现场演出之音乐戏剧舞蹈"},{"start":15223.741,"end":15247.696,"text":"所以如果一場表演裡面 沒有音樂 戲劇 舞蹈就不算表演我覺得這是非常荒謬的說法為什麼呢 因為當時的這個 十之一的立法理由其實在音樂 戲劇 舞蹈的後面就有或其他形式 四個字啊 白紙黑字啊其他形式之藝文表演活動"},{"start":15248.576,"end":15275.007,"text":"然後我們再看到第三項第四項當時的立法理由清清楚楚的說鑑於文化創意產業之蓬勃發展相關藝文活動日趨興盛逐漸成為人民生活不可分割的一部分因此針對藝文活動的票券政府應建立健全的市場機制以促進文化產業之發展及保障民眾禁用文化的權利這就是我們本法規定的目的"},{"start":15276.528,"end":15291.448,"text":"所以我們的定義我們的目的是這樣然後我們要第四項甚至是考量以高價轉送藝文票券謀暴力的行為嚴重傷害消費者合理票價參與藝文活動權益我們的立法目的是這樣當時在立法的時候以"},{"start":15291.969,"end":15315.363,"text":"列舉的方式把音樂、戲劇、舞蹈列在其中然後後面還加了一個概括的或其他形式怎麼會今天用立法理由的三項列舉來把其他的新興項目排除在外呢這真的是非常荒謬的理由而且我說實在的剛剛如果舉例說今年什麼二月玄冰見面會然後兩千元"},{"start":15317.884,"end":15340.392,"text":"那這個因為他只有握手啊 簽名啊所以就不算表演各位 有人會相信玄冰站到那個舞台上不是表演嗎玄冰的一舉一動 穿什麼衣服 笑不笑其實跟粉絲的眨眼都是表演啊怎麼會有人認為這不是表演呢好 那你再說 如果你真的認定他不是表演你說那他就不能用文創產業來罰"},{"start":15342.173,"end":15366.588,"text":"那如果選兵這張兩千塊的票變成是兩萬塊錢了那請問你要用什麼來罰?用社會法嗎?你不覺得這很荒謬嗎?所以我們今天這些委員在這裡跟你討論的是現在社會上有非常多元形式的藝文活動正是應該用當時十之一的立法理由裡面的或其他形式被列入在該法規管轄範圍之內"},{"start":15368.689,"end":15396.908,"text":"以遏止社會上大家痛恨的黃牛行為就這麼簡單而已我不曉得文化部在抗拒什麼好喔 我們再來請范雲委員剛剛蘇巧惠委員已經說明得非常清楚了那我想既然當時我們為什麼會有這個十條之一就是希望處理這個大家禁用這些表演活動的公平權益那條文說明又有一個其他形式之異文表演活動"},{"start":15398.028,"end":15425.781,"text":"所以我想你如果去問所有關心文化產業的人問說見面會粉絲會算不算大家一定都會說算嘛因為他怎麼可能沒有表演那搞不好還唱了一點點歌所以我覺得那重點是你們這裡是現場藝文表演重點是現場嘛那所以我想文化部不要因為工作量的緣故因為從我們來講的話其他形式當然就包含這個見面會跟握手會那以上"},{"start":15427.657,"end":15435.517,"text":"好 看起來我們委員會的委員都充分表達文化部是不是來具體回答一下對於這兩個提案"},{"start":15436.325,"end":15461.883,"text":"好 謝謝 先謝謝各位委員幫助我們把所有的這個這個預算解凍了但是我自己回顧當年這個文創文創法其實是要強調創作然後保障這個創作那這個跟黃牛這是兩件事情我還是希望要以現場演出主體為售票但是因為為什麼我覺得"},{"start":15463.269,"end":15488.723,"text":"見面會 握手 有沒有唱歌我還是認為它是一個商業行為它不是一個創作行為它是要盡量吸收本事它在做的是商業行為我不覺得它是一個創作行為雖然各位每一個委員都這樣想但是我要表達我的個人看法我們是文化部我們再做下去我們變成黃油部我不是怕我們工作增加"},{"start":15491.049,"end":15515.212,"text":"他的表演形式各式各樣 我們可不可以個案處理因為他握個手 玄冰站起來 他穿著衣服設計OK 他就是要商業嘛 他就是要賺錢嘛他有什麼文化創意呢他所有的行為都是商業啊他所有行為都是商業 跟文化有什麼關係呢"},{"start":15517.165,"end":15532.152,"text":"流行文化但是它本身是他們在經營粉絲啊我們的文創法當年三國通過很多的戲劇作品很多的戲劇表演去累積了它的那這些戲劇表演不就是以其中的我們所說的藝文表演"},{"start":15534.064,"end":15559.038,"text":"沒關係沒關係 雅玲你繼續講我是表達我個人看法因為我覺得他們在經營這個藝人在經營這個藝人用各種方式見面拍照握手唱兩首歌它就是一個商業行為它不是一個文化行為它不是一個文化創意當年我們在通過這個法的時候我是沒有參與因為我現在才接手可是我現在重讀這個法律當初文創法是要保護文創的"},{"start":15560.279,"end":15576.718,"text":"它是保護文創 這個跟黃牛沒有關係館長 我個人的看法這個叫文化創意產業發展法產業 重點是產業它或許不是您認定的文創可是它是文創衍生出來的產業"},{"start":15578.817,"end":15583.161,"text":"好 我們請佩玉委員然後再來請佩玉委員我想每個人對於文化都有主觀的認知跟想法那這也是為什麼我們需要文創法規所以我覺得還是回到法規面的定義來看那剛剛前面蘇喬惠委員有提到了過去十之一條的立法理由"},{"start":15601.698,"end":15619.835,"text":"我們認為依現在現行文創法法規條文本身以及當時立法制理由應當是沒有排除其他形式之現場表演活動的黃牛售票行為納入文化部來主管這一點我想應該跟部長也可以有共識"},{"start":15620.856,"end":15632.203,"text":"但是再來我覺得回到法規裡面來談再來就是在行政裁量權上面接下來文化部有沒有要把這些其他形式剛剛部長你也同意認同有些可以個案來認定代表是可以有討論空間的有討論空間的"},{"start":15636.425,"end":15641.168,"text":"是不是也認同要去演你回去討論嘛到底有多少樣態見面會只是其中一種我們剛剛講的我今天講質詢講這個太白的影劇人員這也是其中一種樣態非常多所以文化部是不是可以今天我們有一個共識基於委員的提案我們認為現在"},{"start":15653.897,"end":15673.124,"text":"回到當初十之一條立法理由音樂戲劇以外音樂戲劇舞蹈以外還有其他形式的現場表演活動這一點我要不回去研擬倘若有黃牛售票行為也納入是否納入文創法來管理部長剛剛如果你也認同說有個案來討論空間的話"},{"start":15676.225,"end":15685.333,"text":"我認為就應該要去文化部要接受 回去來研討更多的樣態我們回到法規面來談因為我跟你對於剛剛講的文化創意可能想法就不同彼此尊重但是應該要回到法規面來談以法規面來說是沒有排除對 我沒有完全排除其他樣態的喔是不是 部長回到法規面沒有排除嘛"},{"start":15697.402,"end":15718.851,"text":"演繹這個內容到底到什麼程度算是表演 算是文化我剛才強調的是它內容各式各樣你說拍個照 握個手它的形態太多樣我們把它一股腦全部拉在我們的法案裡面你可以想像我們將來要怎麼去判定它真的蠻困難"},{"start":15721.656,"end":15726.478,"text":"好 謝謝主席我認同剛剛佩儀委員說的我真的要拜託文化部待會去研議我們今天坐在現場的人的平均年齡可能是40歲"},{"start":15746.977,"end":15763.195,"text":"我們是不是主要的文化產業消費者要看我們過去的生活經驗跟我們的成長經驗可是如果我們只用我們自己的成長經驗跟生活經驗來看待現在跟我們不同年紀族群我指的是可能是40以上40以下"},{"start":15763.996,"end":15784.759,"text":"不同年紀族群的消費在文化產業的這件事情是不是我們認為的文化那大家可以討論個三天三夜講不完所以我要談的是我手上有一個這個我不知道部長您知不知道它是非常重要的在兒童文學界裡面非常重要的經典角色它叫Miffy"},{"start":15785.987,"end":15809.114,"text":"不認識兒童文學的人可能以為它就是一個IP嘛它就是一個好可愛的小兔子嘛它就是我在某某文創園區辦周邊的時候我會去買的東西但是回到兒童文學界它剛開始是一個非常重要的角色它站在理解兒童的角色上去做這個故事可是等到這個故事它有不同的價值的可能性的時候周邊商品的廠商就會過來了"},{"start":15811.095,"end":15830.214,"text":"部長你記不記得我們之前在省文化部預算的時候你發下一個好語你說要讓台灣的動漫產業在三年五年內走上跟日本一樣的國際發展但是部長你可知道如果你以日本的動漫產業為例你可知道日本動漫產業它不是關起門來畫了IP就沒事了"},{"start":15832.276,"end":15847.529,"text":"他們在研究IP 研發IP的第一時間周邊廠商都已經進來討論了這個是日本現在的現實我舉前幾年一個非常紅的例子叫做鬼滅之刃鬼滅在畫的時候"},{"start":15848.69,"end":15866.024,"text":"創作者有發想出版商覺得是可以做的角色之後所有做周邊的 要做電影的要做動畫的要做各式各樣開發的人就已經進來團隊了所以那個漫畫家他絕對不是關起來做文化創作而已"},{"start":15866.744,"end":15886.205,"text":"因此它才會叫做文化創意產業如果部長您發酵的好語是深的希望成真我相信所有在座委員都希望成真的情況下請部長跟相關文化部的同仁要把產業發展的思維放進去不是只有文化創作而已"},{"start":15886.806,"end":15912.611,"text":"它才有可能產業化而我們在面對產業化的時候請不要再跟所有這些幫助我們發展產業化的商業廠商站在對立的角色商業跟文化在現在這個時代不可能分得這麼清楚我當然認同部長你說的文化創作是一回事但是我要拜託文化部待會去討論而不是在這裡就做出拒絕如果按照部長剛講的那個角色"},{"start":15914.131,"end":15928.217,"text":"現在每一個人手上假設每一個人手上我發一個MIFI這件事情搞不好部長你都覺得不屑如果你只回到兒童文學的角度來看你會覺得它是商品化的這個東西它可能污衊了這個角色在兒童文學當中的地位但是對我們來說"},{"start":15929.437,"end":15943.089,"text":"我再說一次所有要做文化創意產業的人在想的都是用各式各樣的方法跟行銷企劃讓這個角色的影響力深植每一個人的心中當這個角色發揮了影響力他才有創業的可能才有產業的可能但在部長剛剛您的回答當中我認為您確實忽略了"},{"start":15954.079,"end":15979.298,"text":"產業的多元面向在現在2025的當下它已經有不同的樣子了再回扣剛剛喬惠委員說的玄冰玄冰之所以站在舞台上有賣點或者是所有的明星站在舞台上辦簽名會有賣點都不是只是因為他每天出來裝可愛拍個照他一定是先有腳本先有劇本先有戲劇先有電影他才有後續的見面會如果未來"},{"start":15980.669,"end":16007.69,"text":"如果我們今天舉的都是因為國外的明星讓部長覺得聽了不舒服我要提醒部長台灣在發展台劇台流台灣電影的這些明星未來也有可能走上國際站在文化部的角度要不要協助他們做額外的創意的活動去promote這些角色promote這些演員是要的所以站在文化部的角色我再次強調站在文化部的角色當然要去想這件事情以上 謝謝"},{"start":16009.211,"end":16036.734,"text":"好我們再請蘇巧慧委員好謝謝我想這個我們繼續講下去其實可以講非常久尤其是我們在座的這幾位這個你可以說立法院的追星人都在這裡了那所以我也很感謝部長剛剛的回答已經就是比較態度上說可以至少可以研議這個感謝部長已經有打開第一步那我們等一下看看大家可以共同推進的結論是到什麼程度"},{"start":16038.235,"end":16051.063,"text":"但我在這裡因為這個是要必須留下記錄的所以因應剛剛前面大家討論我想我們還是再把這段話重申一下我們今天引用的法規是文化創意產業發展法它的第一條就開宗明義為促進文化產業之發展"},{"start":16056.966,"end":16080.697,"text":"建構具有豐富文化及創意內涵的社會環境運用科技與創新研發健全文化創意產業人才培育並積極開發國內外市場特制定本法第三條本法所稱文化創意產業指源自創意或文化累積透過智慧財產之形成及運用具有創造財富與就業機會之潛力"},{"start":16084.88,"end":16088.268,"text":"並促進全民美學的素養使國民生活環境提升夏裡產業從1到15是劣舉"},{"start":16094.943,"end":16118.797,"text":"16是蓋過 中間甚至是第五 第六都是 第五項是電影產業第六項是廣播電視產業所以我剛剛舉例的玄冰確實就是影視界的明星那如果他在這個框框螢幕上面 你說他就是表演那麼他走出了框框以後 到真實的世界裡面"},{"start":16119.858,"end":16122.84,"text":"跟你互動但這個行為需要售票的那這到底算不算是在文化創意產業裡面呢我認為當然是啊那這個算不算表演或至少是在當年所規定的十之一的立法理由的其他形式呢當然算啊這是我們的見解"},{"start":16143.897,"end":16153.727,"text":"我們今天如果因為這樣跟文化部還沒有辦法達成共識那我至少要期待文化部在一定時間內不但要帶回去研議而且在一定時間內要有結論好喔"},{"start":16158.581,"end":16176.661,"text":"好我們再請雅琳補充一下簡單補充一下就是說我知道文化部這邊可能會覺得說見面會的形式跟樣態非常多元那我覺得就是說因為見面會這的確是現在流行文化中非常非常重要的一個樣態"},{"start":16178.363,"end":16205.47,"text":"那是不是可以回去把所有的樣態盤點出來那我們再來看看說到底這個地方應該要怎麼來把它做納入可以嗎我們是不是可以用這樣子的方式來討論不然我覺得你說一條線切下去完全不討論完全不放進去我覺得這也不合理因為這不符合現在流行文化的一個發展對我可不可以講一點話短短的不然先請范雲講完最後一點再您再做一個結論好"},{"start":16207.591,"end":16211.972,"text":"是要跟部長對話一下部長當時講的是說我們要有這個當然一開始是要文化弱勢的還不夠產業化的協助他能夠減稅讓大家投入讓他更商業化更產業化那可是這個法條當時定義的文化創意產業裡面就有廣播電視產業流行文化產業所以是規範到的"},{"start":16233.936,"end":16249.793,"text":"那部長擔心的說文化部變成黃牛部是因為我們要解決黃牛的事情的時候當時主要都是來自音樂流行文化表演所以把它放在十之一嘛那是因為這樣子所以文化部感覺為什麼大家都關心黃牛"},{"start":16250.433,"end":16279.517,"text":"當然就是搶不到票商業化很成功的那我覺得您會有這個誤解是因為我們十之一跨在這下面可是回到這個產業裡面是包含流行影視文化的就不能說是只有創業的本來商業化程度高的就不在它規範內容內了所以我是想澄清這樣啦因為部長剛剛這樣講我擔心大家會有誤解那我們就回到當時的定義就包含影視流行文化都在裡面了以上"},{"start":16279.997,"end":16280.64,"text":"好 我們接下來請黃婕委員"},{"start":16283.015,"end":16299.268,"text":"那我在這邊還是要跟部長鄭重的說明啦因為剛剛部長的那一番話其實不只是對非常多的追星人是一個很嚴重的打擊也對於所有文化創意產業的從業人員是一個非常嚴重的打擊我真的認真建議部長你去參加一場見面會再來跟我們說見面會算不算在文創坊裡面涵蓋的範圍好不好"},{"start":16310.336,"end":16316.218,"text":"你完全不懂什麼叫做什麼叫做粉絲見面會它就是一個影視從業人員跟他的粉絲之間的互動它完全就是一個表演的形式啊為什麼我不懂為什麼在文化部認定的定義裡面會把表演形式如此的狹隘化為什麼會如此的甚至可以說是十古不化我非常的驚訝我真的非常的驚訝"},{"start":16340.014,"end":16367.312,"text":"因為在見面會裡面偶像跟粉絲之間多元的互動包括他可能會隨口唱一兩首歌他可能會隨時跳一兩首歌曲甚至是他有非常多就是應粉絲觀眾要求的非常多的可能一些影劇的畫面或者是說他有非常多元的跟飯撒等等的我不知道部長懂不懂"},{"start":16368.072,"end":16382.542,"text":"但是無論如何你剛剛講那一句說粉絲見面會不是文化創作只是純粹商業行為這句話真的對文化非常的不尊重難道演唱會就不是就是文化創作不是商業行為嗎各式各樣你們說的現場難道一場舞蹈的表演它就只是文化創作就不是商業行為嗎商業行為跟文化創作怎麼會是分開的呢所以"},{"start":16397.892,"end":16397.944,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":16398.995,"end":16427.163,"text":"我是覺得部長剛剛那一番話我建議你收回去因為非常嚴重這個聽在所有的追星人所有的影視的從業人員還有文化創意的產業人員耳裡非常的刺耳而且非常極其不尊重那甚至剛剛其實跟法規的內容其他委員都已經提過第三條裡面已經把各式各樣的文化產業都寫出來了在台灣一個影星一個非常有名的例如誰"},{"start":16430.208,"end":16452.419,"text":"蔡依林 許光漢 張惠妹這些他們難道沒有文化的成分嗎他們沒有帶動台流嗎所以這個怎麼會用一個商業行為去定義它呢所以我還是誠摯建議看是不是今天你們要回去演繹我們願意給你時間嘛一個月啊好不好一個月演你看看這些多元的樣態"},{"start":16454.178,"end":16478.87,"text":"那不要就馬上打槍我最後舉例一下那個Madonna她的超紅她在性別的流行文化上佔有非常重要的角色那蔡依林她最近的那個蛇蝎頭的造型也是非常有創意我看了覺得好厲害所以這個東西就是文化創意只是她商業化的比較成功那我們再來就請部長做回答"},{"start":16481.628,"end":16501.587,"text":"我想各位有點誤會你們對我有點誤會好像說我看不起商業看不起這個真的是誤會我來到文化部之後都把每樣東西都當作產業我從以前的工作都是到戲院看有幾票賺多少錢所以第一你們有點誤會了我純粹是想把它分類它屬不屬於我們這個"},{"start":16502.708,"end":16522.468,"text":"屬於文創法十之一由文化部來管第二你們對我有一點誤會因為我年紀比較大我74歲你們在跟我講話的時候有帶一點覺得我這個老頭子我怎麼會懂流行我跟你們講我也曾經是偶像我也曾經是偶像"},{"start":16524.336,"end":16540.594,"text":"對不起我這24歲去大學演講的時候是滿坑滿谷的人我知道什麼是偶像而且你們也不要不好因為我是74歲我知道你們現在講那個形式但是也不要因為我的年齡你們略帶諷刺"},{"start":16542.917,"end":16569.799,"text":"我有四個孫子他們才十歲他們會玩什麼東西我都知道我不會因為我的年齡而不懂年輕但那個見面形式你叫我去看他們表演我是一點興趣都沒有真的啊 為什麼叫我去看他表演為什麼我要去了解那個我一點都沒有藐視我沒有藐視三葉我也沒有藐視表演我只是想把它區隔說它屬不屬於文篆十之一法"},{"start":16571.308,"end":16585.506,"text":"那我願意帶回去研擬研擬的原因是因為我想知道這個法律當初怎麼定的然後我也想知道全世界對這樣的鑑別會是怎麼研擬的我只是希望你們不要誤會我的年齡"},{"start":16587.489,"end":16604.439,"text":"喔好像不是不是好像看不起年輕人那套玄冰怎樣怎樣不要這樣想我我非常年輕的我非常年輕的所以這件事情請大家不要誤會我只是就法律論法律OK那我回去研議好嗎然後時間"},{"start":16605.259,"end":16610.426,"text":"我簡單 我簡單部長你回應了嗎我簡單講一下就好我想部長我覺得大家可能在這個因為剛剛你有講一句話就是說他們只是站在那邊他們有做什麼表演我覺得在這一點上面聽起來我們聽起來"},{"start":16622.742,"end":16646.194,"text":"可能就會覺得好像有點貶低這樣子的文化但是你剛剛這樣說明這樣子我們理解因為我想因為現在追星人的文化雖然可能過去就像以前動漫這都屬於次文化可是現在其實有非常非常多的人關注啦所以我們剛剛只是想要多做這些說明讓部長來了解而已這樣子我們也要留紀錄我們很尊敬部長好所以剛剛都是解釋法條第一條第二條第三條"},{"start":16648.556,"end":16664.63,"text":"我也要澄清小野是我們當年的絕對沒有對部長有任何關於年齡的發言跟態度這個跟年齡都沒有關係純粹就是希望我們一起來討論就是到底文化產業怎麼樣更好拜託 謝謝"},{"start":16666.171,"end":16678.52,"text":"好 我們具體聚焦我們就聚焦在臨時提案上好不好那部長答應要研議所以基本上應該第一個案子應該就沒有問題吧要修改嗎就是把見面會跟握手會"},{"start":16694.079,"end":16695.521,"text":"後面哪裡都不要 什麼意思"},{"start":16715.36,"end":16734.414,"text":"因為你就是說目前我們想接受的是由於現場演出為主體但是其他的我們還有售票行為的但是至於剛剛講說那個握手見面那個我們與檢舉的個案來判定另外要不要進入到文化專業產業我們來研議嘛是不是這樣子"},{"start":16737.396,"end":16754.467,"text":"應該不是喔應該不是部長我們現在手上拿到的有這個有劃掉一些這個明確見面會形式這個地方劃掉然後有加籃子的這個版本是在我們剛剛這麼長的一段將近二三十分鐘的討論之前就拿到的那麼現在我們兩邊討論過之後"},{"start":16756.388,"end":16776.436,"text":"部長也充分了解我們的訴求那同時願意延誼了嘛那既然你是延誼了那是不是就是我們剛剛也是在講的就是見面會握手會了嘛只是延誼好不好那就是完全就是延誼就不要再糾結這些文字就是延誼委員提出來的提案我們先"},{"start":16777.436,"end":16802.791,"text":"劉卓紀委員也很清楚 延譯我們知道延譯是什麼意思啊我們現在沒有這樣直接納入啊好 那我們請常事次長 次長跟委員報告一下因為在最後的這一段裡頭因為寫的是要明確將見面會 握手會等活動形式納入事實上就是由委員講的因為形式非常多元所以叫明確將見面會 握手會納入的時候它反而是一種限制所以我們的建議 我們是寫等活動形式 等"},{"start":16803.351,"end":16831.302,"text":"所以我們會不會建議說可不可以不要有明確兩個字因為既然是延譯那就是將明確拿掉而已是嗎好可以我可以接受延譯後再做出沒有所以這整個來我們就是這段文字裡面一共就是原文只刪除明確兩個字這樣好不好就是我們張雅琳委員的提案只有我們可以再念一次好不好我們可不可以在這段再念一次就最後一段"},{"start":16834.123,"end":16860.146,"text":"好 原此請文化部盡速研議文化創意產業發展法第十條之一將見面會 握手會等活動形式納入藝文表演定義之範疇使相關票券之交易與轉售行為得以依法管理並強化藝文演出市場秩序與觀眾權益保障OK 好 我沒有問題好 那就修正通過喔好 那第二案要怎麼樣具體來修改因為第二案"},{"start":16863.733,"end":16886.195,"text":"是不是 見請貴婦言義認定藝文表演時 答答答答答答對啊 因為我也 如果我可以同意的話 我這邊見請貴婦言義好不好 我的言義來認定藝文表演怎樣怎樣然後 那這後面是我的建議嘛 以 我的想法就是最簡單就是以有沒有售票行為為認定基準嘛"},{"start":16886.855,"end":16899.458,"text":"因為藝文活動實在是太多了嘛形式也很多嘛所以我認為是用有沒有售票來區分是不是納入文創本法適用範圍嘛這是我的建議嘛給你研議這樣還不行喔這是我的建議啊我已經改從認定改成研議了嘛好那就後面那一趴因此"},{"start":16915.67,"end":16934.209,"text":"最前面應該是前年5月啦112年5月修正通過就第一句話就是文化創意產業發展系統就是它一個前年可是它是修正通過耶去年不是有修正嗎"},{"start":16935.564,"end":16946.589,"text":"是前面喔那應該是題目對 但是剛剛來溝通的時候有答應其實是在一個月之內要提出研議結果剛剛現在這樣兩邊都沒有寫上去了不要以為我忘記了"},{"start":16948.37,"end":16967.816,"text":"我有記得你來溝通的時候有說沒有然後我們不同意所以我們說一個月研議結果啊研議結果啊可以再討論啊對啊研議結果可那那兩個案子都要加要加在後面嗎後方一個月內提出結果啊一個月內提出報告啊要不然兩個月好不好折衷啊不是我們原因是因為怕會期結束了"},{"start":16979.253,"end":17002.445,"text":"可是會期不是要不一定會研會不一定會研會今年千變萬化誰知道千變萬化好 兩個月折衷嘛好不好 折衷兩個月啦 兩個月如果有研會的話好 那第一個案子喔我們就是在最後方加入於"},{"start":17004.042,"end":17004.623,"text":"兩個月內提交書面報告於教文會"},{"start":17016.513,"end":17038.796,"text":"最後一段原此請文化部禁訴於兩個月內研議文化創意產業發展法第十條之一這樣子是不是一個方法就是在第三段的第一句話的後面這樣後面就不用再寫那個教文會原此請文化部禁訴於兩個月內研議文化創意產業發展法第十條之一後面就都不用了"},{"start":17040.521,"end":17054.013,"text":"後面將見面會、握手會等活動形式我可以接受我們是基於對你的信任不然的話你只是兩個月內研議我要的是結果他會研議結果出來"},{"start":17057.536,"end":17060.478,"text":"那第二個案子第二個巧惠的案子我們就是倒數第二行的"},{"start":17073.724,"end":17088.303,"text":"第一句修正條文於前年五月修正通過去年改前年然後在倒數第二行因此建請貴部延譯加個延譯認定藝文表演時那最後"},{"start":17090.666,"end":17117.154,"text":"是不是在家 或者是次長有什麼比照剛剛次長的寫法就好 兩個一樣寫法的因此建請貴婦於兩個月內 延誼認定一文表演時就是都這樣 喔好 好可以 OK這樣子沒問題齁好 OK 好 那我們這個第二案子也修正通過OK 謝謝 謝謝提案委員好 我們接下來進行質詢"},{"start":17120.862,"end":17125.906,"text":"好 我們再請議事委員詳細登載在議事錄好 我們再來要請陳培宇委員好 謝謝主席 那有請部長 謝謝好 我們請李部長"},{"start":17142.944,"end":17167.946,"text":"好 謝謝部長好 委員好好 部長我們絕對沒有年齡歧視的問題我要再次重申這個立場非常的嚴肅好 我想要跟部長討論有一個案子是最近發生在花蓮的新城因為他們要蓋一個新建大樓是用國發基金結果在蓋大樓的過程當中發現有非常少見的大分科文化城市目前台灣最早的新石器時代群"},{"start":17168.667,"end":17191.256,"text":"那當地的議員跟文化局進而開了相關的考察會議很多專家學者說不要倉促搶救要嚴謹評估主要是因為在我們的相關辦法裡面呢如果有發現考古遺址在新建的大樓原地我們可以幾個方法一個是原地保留變更設計搶救發掘那目前可能最好的方法是原地保留"},{"start":17191.776,"end":17213.237,"text":"可是花蓮縣政府說因為這個錢國發基金來的不容易爭取很怕如果沒有往下蓋這個錢就不見了但是我們看到相關的文資審議跟辦法裡頭其實文化部應該可以有一些作為應該不要放任地方政府就做出倉促的決定在之前2018年南投埔里鄉為了設置鎮長歡迎您的一個電子看板"},{"start":17216.36,"end":17229.395,"text":"就破壞了當地的文資那已經無可挽回那我們很希望最近這個新的案例文化部可以有一些角色可不可以請部長回應一下就其實這個東西因為他全力在"},{"start":17230.376,"end":17253.709,"text":"那個地方政府所以我們其實已經知道這個事情我們請花蓮縣政府要按照文資法相關規定來辦理然後尊重審議會因為他會成立一個審議會專業審議這是在法令上但是在我個人來講這個真的是非常重要的一個發現六千年到四千三百年這個對台灣的歷史來講是非常重要的新時期時代"},{"start":17255.47,"end":17281.377,"text":"所以我想在我們權力範圍內我們會要求花蓮縣政府慎重處理這個好那因為我很怕花蓮縣政府只是被查報請文化部被查不管是審議會的專家委員夠不夠或者是可信任度夠不夠或者是有沒有請聽民意請聽當地議員的聲音我都希望文化部可以在合法規範的情況下積極的督導跟協助地方政府"},{"start":17282.017,"end":17303.831,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來跟部長快速討論一下文化幣已經上路兩年了那感謝文化部今年開始把年齡向下延伸到13歲這個事情非常重要可是相關政策我們都要來看現在實行的狀況第一個我們來看文化幣的消費點的分類我覺得有值得討論的地方現在把所謂表演藝術跟文化體驗框在一起"},{"start":17304.511,"end":17322.836,"text":"全台灣的體驗點15000多也就是佔百分之八十幾可是到底什麼叫表演藝術什麼叫文化體驗說實話現在的分類是不清不楚的根據文化部你們給我們的說明說所謂表演藝術跟文化體驗含了音樂表演視覺等藝術展演及文化體驗活動的"},{"start":17325.516,"end":17349.304,"text":"據點周邊展會市集活動票券售票平台可是如果我們要把這個文化幣消費的資料跟消費者的喜好變成未來產業發展或是文化部在擬定相關政策這些數據絕對是重要參考但是因為現在都混在一起了其實我認為光是你們文化部未來做政策規劃你們都會覺得很困擾到底這所謂的"},{"start":17350.464,"end":17372.969,"text":"一萬五千多個點混在一起到底是什麼狀況所以我認為這樣的統計沒有問題但是這個分類有問題所以才會得到這個統計數字這是第一個我覺得分類有問題第二個我們可以看到目前文化幣的消費點跟主要消費區域集中在台北台中高雄接下來才是另外三都新北桃園跟台南這是目前你們給我們的數據那我們來看一下"},{"start":17375.109,"end":17398.157,"text":"不同縣市的消費點我來抓一個最大的好了最大消費族群在圖書出版跟點位最多的表演文化藝術體驗這個變化量都不大可是表演藝術文化體驗的變化量比較大怎麼說因為縣市落差實在太大例如說在台北跟嘉義的獨立書店台中跟新竹的表演藝術文化部長這個相關數字你都看得見這些現象我認為剛好文化幣上路兩年了"},{"start":17404.119,"end":17427.504,"text":"我們應該要用這些珍貴的數字來看未來台灣在做圖書出版也好表演藝術及文化體驗不管是考慮到城鄉差距考慮到補助扶植產業各式各樣我們都要回過頭來看這些數據這是第二個方向提供給部長參考第三個我們來看領取率因為領取率其實對文化部應該最重要因為你們要知道達成率"},{"start":17428.164,"end":17448.469,"text":"現在各縣市的領取率全台灣是86%我們如果把不足80的標出來部長你這邊有看到台北市是不足80的可是我覺得有一個點很有趣部長你看一下台東是全台灣第三台灣台東喔台東它有全台灣第三多的文化幣消費點"},{"start":17449.929,"end":17478.577,"text":"它有2090個消費點僅次於台北4180個台中6796個第三名它的消費點是第三多可是它的領取率卻只有56%如果我們希望文化幣的發放是促成改善偏鄉跟城鄉差距的話我們應該要回過頭問台東有這麼多個點可是為什麼台東的青年領取率很低"},{"start":17479.597,"end":17494.667,"text":"我覺得我們有沒有機會來做這個分析跟研究或者是我們去做相關問卷去傾聽一下台東戶籍在台東那他可能是沒有下載也可能是他不知道或是他下載了之後他發現這兩千多個點他都不好用"},{"start":17495.467,"end":17510.944,"text":"因為我覺得很奇怪它的點這麼多是全台灣第三多但是它的領取率卻非常非常低幾乎是最低56%所以我剛剛以上講了這麼多我想要快速給文化部一些建議第一個我想請文化部把表演藝術跟視覺藝術單獨拉出來統計而文化體驗所含括的市集活動"},{"start":17516.57,"end":17535.262,"text":"票券消費平台要應該標示出來並且應該要在文化幣的網站使用報告上說明各類別的商家定義種類等重要資訊給藝文界參考也給文化部部內自己做政策規劃的參考還有我認為要設計相關的使用回饋問卷"},{"start":17536.423,"end":17552.895,"text":"因為已經上路兩年了錢已經花這麼多我認為相關的問卷會讓我們更加理解領文化幣的青年13到22歲他們的需求跟這些政策如何更靠近他們好 以上那部長可不可以給我們這個報告兩個月內我剛提了這麼多的問題"},{"start":17556.547,"end":17568.753,"text":"可以有兩個月內我們會往下推動謝謝妳的剛才提的非常有意思對我們來做一個報告一定需要的因為你們後續也需要做政策規劃好不好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝陳佩玉委員部長請回再來我們請黃婕委員好謝謝主席我們請部長好有請部長"},{"start":17590.575,"end":17609.492,"text":"黃委員你好好 謝謝大家辛苦了要到下午這個時間那我還是跟部長再次的澄清一下絕對沒有任何年齡歧視的問題這整件事情都跟年齡沒有關係我相信所有的年齡層都非常喜歡追星都有各式各樣的追星的活動"},{"start":17610.393,"end":17628.507,"text":"那所以我今天也是想要藉這個機會再次的跟部長來請教那我這邊是一個已經是一個即將發生的個案因為他們5月10號就要賣票了那其實早上也有委員提到他們是一個泰劇的兩位女性偶像那即將在台灣辦粉絲見面會"},{"start":17630.288,"end":17650.209,"text":"那首先我要請教的是因為我已經跟文化部詢問過那也進行過調查就是這一家這個活動的主辦單位到底是這個澳門的超旗公司還是台灣的藝尚公司那文化部是跟我回覆說是台灣的藝尚公司可是邀請部長看我們這上面的這兩張圖"},{"start":17653.152,"end":17669.883,"text":"一個是官方網站上面的頁面直接寫到主辦單位超奇娛樂那右邊是一位粉絲去私訊這個他們認定的藝尚主辦單位他想要跟他詢問一些售票的一些細節結果呢這個藝尚跟他說你好如果有問題請詢問超奇娛樂說他們不是主辦"},{"start":17676.667,"end":17701.778,"text":"所以現在出現了一個非常大的問題是有這麼多接下來可能會遇到的消費爭議可是連主辦到底是誰都不知道是不是可以請部長在這邊再次的回去請文化部請我們同仁好好的調查因為這攸關接下來粉絲到底會不會遇到任何的消費爭議的問題因為現在的消費爭議就已經很多了幫我下一頁"},{"start":17703.752,"end":17720.269,"text":"那這個是第一個想要請部長幫我們回去調查的一件事情到底有沒有合法因為如果他是澳門的公司必須還要符合一些中港澳在台的一些的商業行為的規範嘛那也要符合兩岸條例跟公司法"},{"start":17720.649,"end":17735.673,"text":"那第二個是這個超級娛樂我們也去調查了他背後的負責人這個澳門人他其實是中國的一個統戰部底下共青團的成員那如果他的身份又這麼複雜的話"},{"start":17737.674,"end":17765.071,"text":"也還有可能會違反兩岸條例裡面跟中國黨務有一些合作的行為也有可能違反兩岸條例所以第二件事情想要請文化部接下來也回去再跟陸委會一起協助的部分就是如果這個超級娛樂背後有一些就是類似統戰他們有一些相關的合作的話是不是有違反兩岸條例這個也要拜託部長好 下一個"},{"start":17766.53,"end":17784.801,"text":"好那再來就進到這個整件事情最大的爭議點這個是直接在網路上的一個看起來是已經是黃牛的一個販售行為在還沒有開賣之前我說5月10號才賣票嘛可是在此之前網路上已經有人在販售囉而且還是加價販售"},{"start":17785.842,"end":17802.577,"text":"然後他們是一個中國的公司那所以台灣很多粉絲就很困惑說那請問我現在像這個已經明確的黃牛我到底要怎麼處理如果你說在台灣的主辦單位叫做藝尚公司的話那像這種東西到底該怎麼處理呢再看下一頁"},{"start":17804.291,"end":17820.223,"text":"這個是這兩張圖都是目前已經出現在這個中國網站上面的黃牛的售票資訊那像這部分到底該怎麼辦是不是先請我們文化部部長或同仁可不可以跟我們說明一下像這種情形到底該怎麼處理"},{"start":17821.325,"end":17848.276,"text":"好 這個問題其實我覺得蠻嚴重因為如果這件事情如果不面對未來會這種灰色地帶會一直生存所以我覺得我們文化部能夠了解就是其實我們已經開始進入跟經濟部什麼已經開始談將來下一步就是要跟陸委會經濟部來一起討論目前我們能做的就希望大家不要買因為它現在已經做成是一個它的操作是在境外"},{"start":17849.016,"end":17869.807,"text":"中國的操作然後剛剛委員有提供我們一個更勁爆就是他的這個負責人是一個有這種背景的有官方背景的那我一直是很贊成文化交流可是文化交流的另外一面就是文化滲透我們都了解中國現在對文化滲透是非常積極的"},{"start":17870.948,"end":17889.394,"text":"像这样的一个事情其实就已经有点接近了这件事情很严重那我想我们会积极的去跟陆委会还有经济部来了解像这样一个我们现在怎么制裁他在这么短时间内我们除了呼吁之外我们就只能追究在台湾的这一家善意这样"},{"start":17890.034,"end":17906.842,"text":"好 那所以所以我覺得接下來要趕快釐清因為現在其實文化部初步給我的回覆是說在5月10號官方開賣之前的所有的這些網站的票券都不要買嘛呼籲大家不要因為就等於是很有可能受騙上當"},{"start":17907.842,"end":17923.424,"text":"因為它等於就類似詐騙的行為了嘛對啊它不只是黃牛它甚至因為它沒有任何保障因為它不是來自官方的訊息所以在此之前也呼籲大家就不要購買了那一切的官方資訊以5月10號官方網站公告的資訊為主對嗎"},{"start":17925.188,"end":17941.225,"text":"就是第一個我覺得委員提出來之後這個馬上就會變成一個話題一個議題應該很多人會注意到這個地方好 就是第一個但是現在的問題是說很明顯現在這個上億公司很有可能它只是一個就是境內的代理"},{"start":17941.946,"end":17959.731,"text":"他是一個空的沒有實質在運作的所以如果接下來如果消費者有跟這個主辦單位有任何的消費爭議就例如說他售票退票換票然後有任何的可能有私下的一些黃牛的行為那我們是可以請這個易上公司出來負責的嗎"},{"start":17961.55,"end":17980.433,"text":"我們已經通知這個益善公司跟他講說這個所有行為包括他的iPhone要怎麼賣這些我們都提醒他萬一出事我們就追究好 謝謝部長的承諾這件事情非常重要因為直到現在官方網站上面寫的主辦單位都還叫做超期"},{"start":17981.514,"end":18003.923,"text":"也就是說他們大剌剌的把這個中國的網站這個澳門的這個家公司當然背後也是中國的一個母公司啦他直接寫說他是主辦單位喔等於是如果我們沒有去跟他確認說在台有一個合法的一個公司的話看起來就是我們讓一個中國的公司在台灣辦一個非法的活動喔"},{"start":18004.743,"end":18030.032,"text":"這個必須要釐清所以他沒有在台灣登記子公司沒錯他是違法的他在台灣沒有登記所以這件事情一定要讓更多人知道這個主辦單位他上面這個寫超期是不對的不可以這樣寫這個也要拜託我們文化部跟這個上億公司想清楚說你不能在台灣辦活動結果你直接用一個境外的公司直接大剌剌的寫你是主辦好謝謝那最後最後葉"},{"start":18034.332,"end":18055.454,"text":"好最後兩個就是我給部長看的一個示範圖這個是普信會的見面會然後下一個這個是李敏昊的見面會那其實從照片就可以很明確看到他們在演出嘛那所以我在這邊還是再次的呈置最後一次的建議就是我們剛剛也做成了臨時提案的建議"},{"start":18056.135,"end":18077.162,"text":"就是拜託文化部回去演你因為實質上粉絲見面會這種簽名握手會雖然是叫這個名稱但它實質上就是一個演藝人員的表演活動然後他們這種販售的售票行為其實往往都是更搶手的因為可能名額很有限因為要可以互動所以這種等於是小型的等於有點類似小型的演藝活動了那這種"},{"start":18082.465,"end":18098.26,"text":"這種因為它名額很少所以那種搶購的樣態更多那很擔心就是會有人從中謀利當然我們要杜絕這樣的黃牛一定是要更積極的查處才行那我也知道文化部非常辛苦因為檢舉量很大"},{"start":18100.402,"end":18118.51,"text":"然後跟各地的縣市政府的合作也必須要非常保持密切這非常感謝你們但是最後我還是希望這類型的表演活動它都是一種文化產業的型態那所以希望能夠適用文創法最後建議 謝謝部長謝謝 謝謝好 謝謝黃婕委員好 部長請回"},{"start":18127.011,"end":18153.398,"text":"我們接下來請邱志偉邱志偉委員質詢不在好那我們今天質詢登記質詢委員均已發言完畢另外有邱志偉委員提出書面質詢那關於今天會議作如下決議報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報"},{"start":18155.198,"end":18177.295,"text":"對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆部分請相關機關尽速書面答覆114年度中央政府總預算有關文化部主管預算解凍案49案業已處理完均准予動之提報院會報文會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"},{"start":18187.267,"end":18188.048,"text":"謝謝收看,下次見!"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}