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10:08:05","會議時間":"2025-12-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"(變更議程)立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、衛生福利部部長、交通部部長、警政署署長、國家安全會議秘書長、國家安全局局長、法務部部長就計畫性攻擊事件進行「社會治安維護之檢討與精進」專題報告並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.60471875,"end":4.2497187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.87409375,"end":6.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.177218750000002,"end":16.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.379718750000002,"end":9.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.36159375,"end":61.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.687843750000006,"end":74.12909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.44971875,"end":90.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.61159375000001,"end":102.61409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.55909375,"end":110.56221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.73096875,"end":111.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.31721875000001,"end":116.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.89034375000001,"end":135.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.70596875,"end":139.55346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.90784375,"end":146.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.16409375,"end":151.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.39971875,"end":152.83409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.15471875,"end":155.75346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.22596875000002,"end":166.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.73909375000002,"end":169.77659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.72159375,"end":172.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.06721875000002,"end":181.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.18846875,"end":181.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.04471875000002,"end":191.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.19096875000002,"end":202.63221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.27346875,"end":204.40409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.69096875000002,"end":206.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.36159375000003,"end":212.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":213.38159375,"end":215.54159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.87909375,"end":220.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.62096875,"end":222.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.69659375,"end":229.83471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.39159375000003,"end":235.20096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.67346875,"end":236.68596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.97284375,"end":243.23346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":243.75659375,"end":247.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.89096875,"end":248.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.32534375,"end":250.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.67096875000001,"end":257.61096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.88096875,"end":259.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.97346875,"end":260.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.20534375,"end":269.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.94659375000003,"end":325.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.28096875,"end":317.48346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.22909375,"end":328.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":329.22846875000005,"end":348.36471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.70221875000004,"end":351.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.65534375000004,"end":355.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.32971875000004,"end":368.05784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":363.77159375,"end":363.82221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":367.90596875,"end":368.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.37846875,"end":371.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.68221875,"end":375.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":373.25534375,"end":374.40284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.33096875,"end":376.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.96784375000004,"end":401.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":402.56721875000005,"end":406.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.38096875,"end":418.42971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.12159375000005,"end":448.06221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.48971875,"end":439.92846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.45034375,"end":450.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.25159375000004,"end":465.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.78096875000006,"end":467.31659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.72596875000005,"end":469.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.93221875,"end":475.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.17221875,"end":487.00971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.54284375000003,"end":479.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":487.00971875000005,"end":488.32596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.59596875000005,"end":499.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493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部長好 署長好今天講這個事情是真的很沉重啦然後大家也都覺得發生這樣的憾事非常的難過那我希望今天我們的討論不是要檢討任何的個人因為確實這個事件發生了三小時那中間從縱火三個地方到後來去北捷丟煙霧彈再到中山站持刀攻擊人"},{"start":33.769,"end":61.763,"text":"那其實這三個小時內大家一直在討論這個時間差到底是怎麼回事那其實我知道基層員警壓力也很大包括昨天那個所長第一時間也有出來說明那看起來他真的壓力非常大那我在這邊不希望說大家檢討這件事情絕對不是因為任何一個基層員警不夠努力大家都很努力那我們今天討論的是制度上到底有沒有可以補足的環節未來不要再發生這樣的事情"},{"start":62.734,"end":90.47,"text":"那第一個我先問一下這個即時通報啦因為確實他在三個小時內連續犯案而且前面是先在林森東路再去長安東路最後又到他的租屋處縱火完之後沒想到兩個小時內跑到北車丟完煙霧彈還是沒有抓到他也第一時間讓他繼續跑然後他中間還可以回到他的旅館再換裝再拿東西再到中山站拿長刀殺人"},{"start":91.653,"end":102.309,"text":"那中間這三個小時剛剛署長你說你們第一個時間在四分鐘六分鐘就已經有警察趕到現場了但是沒有逮到他是這樣子嗎"},{"start":103.601,"end":132.143,"text":"最主要就是趕到現場的時候一定要確定身份那我們第一時間就是從這個專報裡面有提到說他中午的時候中山分局是有在17點40分就知道他的身份通緝有到派員到桃園去查捕但是這個嫌犯就持續在做案中午之後大概他到住處去中午那緊接著就是又來做北捷的中午丟煙霧彈"},{"start":133.524,"end":149.902,"text":"那北捷那個時間開始知道他犯難的時間是17點23分那我們的同仁在6分鐘就到達現場到達現場的時候是煙霧一片只知道說丟只知道是煙霧但是不知道身份那第一次確認身份就趕快去調位這些的監視器"},{"start":153.206,"end":169.594,"text":"那我們發現他現場是戴這個防毒面具的跑的時候才脫掉那透過這件事情才知道跟縱火的比對才知道確定是同一個身份我想警方到達現場是跟時間在做賽跑"},{"start":171.085,"end":190.627,"text":"時間在做賽跑就是說盡快找到嫌犯的身份確定他逃逸的方向來進行做一連串的一個通報跟追捕這三件事情他從縱火然後到丟煙霧彈再到持刀殺人請問各轄區之間的員警有任何橫向聯繫嗎"},{"start":191.448,"end":212.46,"text":"這個是有通報 那我想就這樣子 就是這個案其實我可以在這裡講 因為目前的 因為資訊我覺得要讓大家了解這個案是 他是有計劃型的隨機襲擊的事件從他的計劃書裡面 他所計劃的這一些的點跟內容是相同的"},{"start":213.493,"end":234.442,"text":"是一個他計畫中的一個隨機殺人包括北捷包括中山站都是在他的計畫裡面那這個部分我們現在當然在了解他的這個動機那初步現在的這個狀況我們在因為人已經他已經死了嘛我們現在在了解各種跡象他到底是什麼樣的一個動機"},{"start":235.723,"end":248.51,"text":"那我們從這個有一些的資料現在還在解讀當中那我們現在有解讀出來了有發現因為台北市已經有發布有發現他是一個按照計劃的一個隨機"},{"start":252.307,"end":267.294,"text":"襲擊的一個事件那看起來他常去瀏覽尤其是瀏覽政界的這個狀況所以我們也有做這樣的研判是一個模仿的一個行為在精進版的一個隨機襲擊的一個行為"},{"start":270.014,"end":289.662,"text":"好謝謝署長說明我必須要講啦因為他三個小時內用了三種不同類型的方案的型態所以很顯然各轄區之間並沒有發現說這是同一人所為然後他又跨區所以我是希望接下來指揮調度如果各轄區可以更緊急的彼此通報說很可能是同一人所為"},{"start":290.342,"end":314.839,"text":"那或許我們可以加快時間或許他還來不及進行下一次的犯案你們就可以在前面幾個小時就可以先處理掉而不會讓他整個犯案時間長達三個小時這是我要這邊拜託署長的讓第一時間第一線的員警就可以掌握情況這個非常非常重要第二個關於通訊的問題剛剛其實你也有回答說所以沒有說北捷的警察現場無線電是不通的情況"},{"start":317.341,"end":319.104,"text":"也沒有說他們因為無線電不通而造成他們沒有辦法掌握台北捷運的情況是這樣子嗎我們依據台北市的這個調查是沒有無線電不通的問題"},{"start":329.281,"end":355.343,"text":"因為在網路上盛傳啦我也希望署長在這邊明確的闢謠也好告訴大家你們無線電系統設備這方面是沒有問題的也好因為網路上都說喔其實北捷的捷運系統他們北捷在巡邏的時候無線電就很常不通了還有人說這個什麼長期失靈我不知道到底有沒有這樣的情況請署長鄭重說明我想沒有這個問題因為北捷那個捷運的警察是有到場"},{"start":356.757,"end":361.002,"text":"那無線電失靈就情侶沒辦法運作馬上就會知道了我想要在這裡做屁是沒有這個問題是每天生活的情侶的一個最重要的工具那不通平常就沒辦法執行了所以網路上的謠傳說現場無線電不通我想說這很嚴重耶這不可能"},{"start":376.997,"end":400.877,"text":"好那第三個關於警力的配置跟人力負荷的問題因為大家也在檢討說是不是北捷的警察的配置人力不足因為大家討論說北捷其實有117個站但是總共外勤的員警只有168個那如果兩個人一組然後加上輪班的執勤在這117個站的警察大概不到80個"},{"start":402.638,"end":417.843,"text":"那會不會太少這個覆蓋率夠嗎請署長說明這個部分對於這個配置以及這個勤務的一個平均力也就是說他到場的一個平均力這個部分我們會來再去做檢討跟清淨"},{"start":419.178,"end":447.361,"text":"那當然除了人力不足是一個很嚴重的問題之外當然勤務的分配也要拜託署長回去再檢討真的有太多警察都說有很多無謂的勤務啊然後很多其實導致他們在重大時間的時候沒有辦法處理重大優先的事情我希望可以回去精進這個部分讓警察可以著重在重要的業務上那最後一點我還是要幫基層的員警請命喔很多基層的警察跟我說"},{"start":448.522,"end":464.808,"text":"他們很多基本的配備都是自己買的到現在還是這樣包括說可能辣椒水啊包括警棍啊甚至有人連防彈背心都自己買那他們說要嘛是沒有發要嘛說是公發的這個品質真的太差"},{"start":465.848,"end":487.839,"text":"很常是這兩種 我想這個是這個是沒有這樣的一個狀況 我想我們就基層員警跟我講的什麼叫沒有這樣的情況 就很多人跟我說他連密錄器也自己買辣椒水也自己買 甚至好一點的警棍好一點的防彈背心可能都還要自己想辦法找到更好的 他個人的行為啦"},{"start":488.649,"end":493.271,"text":"不是個人的行為我要我希望警政署當基層員警最強的後盾你們要給他們勇氣給他們當他們的後盾最好的方式就是給他們最好用我們的武器裝備設備都一定是會最安全然後會公發發給我們通來使用"},{"start":505.797,"end":528.277,"text":"那有些比如講像你的防彈衣你那個沒有透過測試你自己去買那是不安全的那我們公發的是透過這些測試安全的這個裝備那當然有些的這個個人使用的裝備我們未來就是為因應同等的使用的一個相關的便利性來做更加的一個加強的一個這樣的一個的裝備的一個購買"},{"start":533.041,"end":537.472,"text":"好 拜托署长正视这个问题给基层远景最好的工具好 谢谢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}