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習世民主計處處長 李佩華資訊及電務處副處長 羅倩薇公眾外交協調會執行長 蕭光維非政府組織國際事務會執行長 江振維台灣日本關係協會秘書長 范振國"},{"start":1987.383,"end":2011.819,"text":"台灣美國事務委員會秘書長邱高維外交及國際事務學院副院長陳文藝領事事務局代理局長陳善友財團法人國際合作發展基金會副秘書長石立軍財團法人台灣民主基金會執行長廖達祺"},{"start":2015.7,"end":2036.391,"text":"裁判法人太平洋經濟合作理事會秘書長徐俊斌顏族民族委員會主任委員另有要工請假本席已准假由副主任委員鍾欣華代理綜合公開處處長"},{"start":2041.892,"end":2068.186,"text":"雅柏昇勇博伊哲怒經濟發展署副助長高文斌教育文化署專門委員馬勒夫勒夫杜納杜坦利茂社會福利署副助長董敬峰"},{"start":2069.844,"end":2097.274,"text":"原住民文化發展中心組長謝美蘭本會邀請外交部原住民委員會報告應用總和外交理念結合南島以西國家以發展價值外交願景之規劃以策略並備執行首先請外交部陳政務次長上台報告"},{"start":2108.789,"end":2135.936,"text":"主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家早非常感謝貴委員會的一個邀請那麼請代表外交部就今天的主題運用總和外交理念結合南大陸語系國家以發揮價值外交願景的規劃跟策略提出報告那麼我就則要的就口頭來向各位委員報告那相關的細節敬請各位委員參考本部完整的書面報告"},{"start":2137.864,"end":2165.378,"text":"那援助民族社群是我們國家的重要成員所屬的南島語系跟太平洋地區共享種族、語言、文化根源外交部持續以總和外交、民主、和平、繁榮三大支柱建構全球民主價值鏈的策略以創新的思維與包括南島語系國家在內的所有區域夥伴緊密合作"},{"start":2166.198,"end":2191.512,"text":"外交部的具體的作為跟規劃說明如下第一,我們結合南島元素推動高層外交蔡前總統在2017年跟2019年兩次出訪太平洋友邦賴總統在去年的時候也以繁榮南島智慧永續之旅都邀請了原住民委員會"},{"start":2192.552,"end":2220.355,"text":"主任委員擔任訪團的成員歷次的出訪也都將這個南島文化元素融入到我們的參訪行程裡面另外去年帛琉慶祝獨立30週年的時候總統也指派了原住民委員會曾志勇主任委員擔任總統的特使充分展現台灣跟太平洋友邦共享南島文化的深厚連結"},{"start":2221.857,"end":2241.271,"text":"二,我們會強化這個南島語系各友邦的經濟韌性,並且建立南島文化交流合作的一個機制。面臨到國際局勢的一個變動,外交部在總和外交的架構下,積極地推動跟太平洋區域南島語系各友邦間以數位、"},{"start":2242.652,"end":2252.2,"text":"綠色健康任性為主軸的榮邦計畫具體包括推動帛琉的永續觀光計畫跟馬紹爾群島經濟合作協定ECA在本年生效"},{"start":2258.965,"end":2282.03,"text":"以及協助土瓦魯填海造陸以及建置海底電纜等等此外外交部持續跟原民會合作推動與南島語系國家建立機制文化交流機制建構了文化交流的機制比如說馬薩爾群島跟馬薩爾群島簽署了南島民族文化事務合作協定"},{"start":2282.87,"end":2293.695,"text":"我們跟帛琉也簽署了原民事務合作備忘錄持續建立並且擴大台灣跟南島友邦的交流機制跟管道"},{"start":2295.441,"end":2313.076,"text":"那麼也推動太平洋區多邊參與以強化連結外交部持續透過太平洋島國論壇PIF以及這個太平洋海洋專員辦公室OPOC以及APEC架構之下在兩千"},{"start":2314.737,"end":2331.963,"text":"22年生效的援助民族經濟貿易合作協議等區域多邊機制積極強化跟南島語系國家連結。此外,我們也積極協助原民會辦理南島民族論壇。"},{"start":2334.044,"end":2338.806,"text":"2018年這個論壇從起到現在已經在我們太平洋兩個友邦包括帛琉跟馬薩爾群島各辦理過一次"},{"start":2349.77,"end":2375.804,"text":"那麼我們也促進南島文化價值融入外交人力建構外交部持續的辦理太平洋島國青年領袖培育計畫PILP那麼邀請10個太平洋島國派員來台參訓以具體的行動來推動我原名外交另外我們也十分注重將南島文化元素融入新進外交人員的培訓體系那麼"},{"start":2378.886,"end":2404.205,"text":"也安排了 比如說我們在本部訓練新進同仁的課程中安排了原民會來講授我國原住民族政策與原住民外交的課程並計劃安排新進人員陪同外賓赴我原民部落交流以提升總和外交之下原民外交的總體的效益"},{"start":2406.035,"end":2409.388,"text":"為用多軌外交深化南島民族文化交流跟連結"},{"start":2410.598,"end":2438.281,"text":"外交部一直透過民間交流的二軌外交促進我國跟南島與系國家之間的交流就以2024年為例我們就已經補助了15個原住民族民間團體進行國際交流那麼也支持我國的這個民間團體拓展國際參與空間此外我們也跟具有這個原住民族身份的這個無論所大使"},{"start":2439.982,"end":2456.168,"text":"這個富阿布達爾大使跟布辛大利大使合作以更靈活那麼以更務實的方式來推動我國跟這個南島文化國家之間的交流合作他們也拓展這個多元領域的交流"},{"start":2457.088,"end":2470.915,"text":"外交部持續透過運動外交、文化外交等方式深化我國跟各個原住民合作夥伴的關係原民會從2021年開始每年辦理全國原住民運動會"},{"start":2472.896,"end":2500.532,"text":"今年這個運動會也會邀請我國的8個友邦的留學生組隊參加另外該會也將於今年11月底到12月初舉行國際援助民族運動會外交部正在協助洽邀地區內各個國家組隊來參與並且將會跟原民會合作接待各國的代表隊並且提供行政的支持"},{"start":2501.432,"end":2517.25,"text":"透過運動外交建構南島語系國家向心力最後我們也曾在全球合作級訓練架構GCTF的架構之下在帛琉舉辦了南島語言副鎮國際論壇"},{"start":2519.713,"end":2533.573,"text":"那麼在之後每年協助人民會以這個南島民族語言附贈為題舉辦大型的國際研討會促進南島語系南島語言保存並且展現文化多元化"},{"start":2535.623,"end":2555.819,"text":"結論,台灣跟南島語系的國家不僅是一個共享文化、語言跟民主的夥伴,更是在地緣上共同面對威權挑戰的同盟夥伴。外交部會持續透過行政院的經濟外交工作小組平台整合跨部會的資源,"},{"start":2556.739,"end":2577.94,"text":"透過總和外交的價值理念實踐人人都是外交官步步都是外交部的精神打造台灣新世界世界新台灣謝謝接著請原住民委員會中副主委進行報告"},{"start":2587.506,"end":2610.845,"text":"主席各位委員大家早首先感謝大院外交及國防委員會邀請原住民主委員會列席報告讓我們有機會就本會就國際交流政策與執行現況向各位委員報告以下就簡要的說明台灣原住民族與太平洋多數島國同屬南島與西的民族"},{"start":2611.886,"end":2638.297,"text":"彼此在語言上文化上有深厚的連結自本會成立以來即以南島文化為基礎推動國際交流並在107年重啟南島民主論壇搭建與南島與西國家的合作平台近年來在政策交流青年與女性的賠利業務文化博物館合作以及產業發展等領域取得了豐碩的成果"},{"start":2639.751,"end":2652.734,"text":"儘管今年部分經費減少,我們仍將堅持三大原則,以南島文化為基礎,原住民族為主體,並配合國家總和外交策略,讓台灣原住民族文化走向世界。"},{"start":2653.939,"end":2676.951,"text":"第一 在深化南島連結方面今年12月本會將首度舉辦世界原住民族傳統運動會邀請來自太平洋、中美洲、紐西蘭、加拿大、澳洲等11個國家組隊與我國原住民族運動員共襄盛舉透過傳統禁忌連結海洋文化與族群的情誼"},{"start":2678.51,"end":2701.047,"text":"巴西瓦里的國際音樂節是我們從107年就開始推動的重要活動每年都吸引超過數萬人士參與今年12月也將首度安排音樂走入部落企劃讓國際業務團隊深入部落與族人實質交流共創音樂文化對話的可能在博物館的國際合作方面"},{"start":2702.029,"end":2729.776,"text":"國立原住民族博物館已經在今年4月正式進入籌備階段我們積極與馬紹爾阿雷雷博物館紐約大都會博物館洽談合作並與紐西蘭、日本等地持續深化博物館交流期望未來再成為南島語族共同的文化平台另外透過文化專屬的翻譯計畫我們已出版多本南島文化書籍今年也首度參與"},{"start":2731.254,"end":2742.877,"text":"台北國際書展獲得熱烈迴響我們也期待持續透過出版書籍讓全球的華語讀者更認識太平洋文化的豐富內涵第二"},{"start":2743.635,"end":2769.838,"text":"在青年與女性培力方面本會持續培養具國際視野的青年人才並將於今年辦理世界青年論壇暨部落社區服務計畫加強青年與部落的連結也將在今年12月辦理原住民族女性論壇以女性的任性的世代合作為題邀請各國原住民族女性領袖來台探討部落自覺與社會的發展"},{"start":2771.659,"end":2786.655,"text":"擴展女性父權的影響力第三在經貿合作部分本會與紐西蘭毛利發展部每年輪流舉辦台紐經濟合作協定原住民族專章的協調會議今年也一致討論推動繪本計畫出版"},{"start":2789.378,"end":2809.156,"text":"青年交流、企业对话、对接等合作另外在原住民族经济贸易合作协议的机制下本会也将与其他经济体合作规划在今年的8月大办了世界博览会相关活动让台湾的原住民族在国际经贸合作中发挥更重要的角色"},{"start":2810.188,"end":2833.46,"text":"主席還有各位委員台灣原住民族的文化是我們與世界交流的重要資產本會將持續以實際的行動落實總統原住民族政策與價值外交並善用現有的資源深耕南島文化的連結與外交部配合讓台灣的原住民族在國際舞台上發光發熱以上的報告謝謝各位委員"},{"start":2838.57,"end":2856.748,"text":"现在开始询答本会委员6加2分钟非本会委员5分钟10点半发言登记截止如有临时提案请以10点半以前提出11点左右处理现在请陈俊仪委员上台之行"},{"start":2872.193,"end":2887.276,"text":"好謝謝主席在場各位我們外交部及我們園民會的夜席的主管大家早安大家好那我先請我們外交部的陳次長次長早委員早"},{"start":2897.363,"end":2916.531,"text":"市長我想就這個台販我們跟范締剛的外交相關的發展走向來請教我們市長那在這個教宗方濟各的喪禮在4月26號已經舉行了那包括台灣在內有160個"},{"start":2919.719,"end":2931.316,"text":"160幾個國家的領袖及特使參加我們台灣則是派出陳建仁前副總統因為他與梵蒂岡"},{"start":2932.113,"end":2958.199,"text":"有一個深遠的關係那也在這一次的代表出席過程裡面收獲蠻豐碩的與多國的元首包括拜登前總統都有機會能夠來做意見交換那在這之前中共曾經要求叫停禁止台灣的代表團派員參加"},{"start":2959.861,"end":2964.892,"text":"但是被教廷以外交管道拒絕但是這個中共"},{"start":2966.263,"end":2992.065,"text":"最後就決定他們缺席來抵制這場的典禮那我想就這個問題就叫我們次長外交部在和教廷交涉的過程當中是否有感受到中共所帶來的壓力那在這一次中國的缺席事件是否會影響過去幾年台灣與范緹剛之間所建立的關係甚至會影響到新任教宗的選舉"},{"start":2993.379,"end":3019.879,"text":"是 那麼我們是一個正式的這個使團嘛那麼因為這個我們台泛的關係這個非常的長久已經83年了雙方的互動也都一直很密切那麼經過雙方的討論之後那麼因為陳前總統陳前副總統曾經六度的進建教宗方濟各並且獲得教宗親自來頒授教廷宗座"},{"start":3021.16,"end":3046.122,"text":"這個科學院的院士的證章那跟教宗的關係非常的深厚所以我們最後決定由陳前總統陳前副總統對不起代表我國的出席的這個教宗的一個上禮我相信說他的一個參與那麼其實也證實了說台灣跟范帝章之間的關係非常的這個兩邊的關係非常的好那麼這個是毋庸置疑的"},{"start":3046.742,"end":3066.721,"text":"至於這個是不是有感受到這個中方的來自於中國大陸的壓力那麼就我們來說我們不是去感受到壓力的一方而是這個范麗鋼那我們也很高興范麗鋼能夠還是堅持雖然是說這個放棄各教宗放棄各的喪禮當然是對於這個全球的這個"},{"start":3067.842,"end":3083.104,"text":"天主教徒尤其對於梵蒂岡來說是一個悲傷的事情但是他們在這個時候還是能夠基於台灣跟梵蒂岡之間深厚的友誼做出一個很好的決定好,就是不是我們的壓力"},{"start":3085.37,"end":3107.61,"text":"我們並沒有感受到這樣的壓力新任的教宗也在選舉當中今天臺灣時間凌晨應該到目前為止是沒有明確的結果我想在2013年方濟各教宗宣誓就職的典禮"},{"start":3109.191,"end":3125.935,"text":"所派出的是當時的馬英九總統伉儷那陳建仁副總統在日前也接受訪問的時候表示說我們希望在新任教宗就職典禮能有我們的賴清德總統能夠代表出席"},{"start":3126.735,"end":3149.089,"text":"對於這個部分,我們對於新任教宗就職的特使團,外交部是不是已經在進行相關的規劃內容?並且與教廷保持密切的聯繫,同樣會以安排我們總統出席作為最終的一個目標,有沒有可能?"},{"start":3149.929,"end":3172.361,"text":"當然我們這個跟教廷隨時保持一個良好的溝通那畢竟現在教廷的最重要的一個事情是要選出新的這個教宗他們也很忙齁那麼後續的安排我們會密切的跟那麼我們跟這個教廷會保持好的聯繫那至於人選上面那個是主要是由這個總統府這邊來因為是這個不管是總統自己"},{"start":3173.742,"end":3188.175,"text":"這個去或者是說要派代表去我想都是由總統府來做決定那外交部是完全配合那麼盡力的爭取那麼達成這個總統所交付的使命為最高的指導原則好 很保守"},{"start":3190.38,"end":3218.042,"text":"並沒有保守 這個大概是因為這個牽涉到雙方嘛我想是說我們這一個也是總統府有做決策那麼軍外交部的角色來說我們就是全力的爭取然後跟對方能夠有好的一個溝通互動然後能夠確保我們的這一個雙邊的關係也能夠保持平衡那畢竟我們是這一個宗教自由的國家我想教廷對這個也非常的了解那麼台灣也有相當數量的這個天主教徒也需要"},{"start":3220.544,"end":3242.52,"text":"教宗的牧羊我想這些東西都是考慮在內那麼我們也把這些訊息傳達給教廷來做那現在也跟委員報告現在梵蒂岡他最重要的工作就是透過這個書密會議來選出新的教宗這是他們的最重要的工作然後後續再來安排他的相關的疑點市長 積極爭取"},{"start":3247.244,"end":3251.995,"text":"一定,全力爭取,我們全力爭取好,那在過去幾年齁,我們跟這個台灣的這個外交關係齁"},{"start":3257.113,"end":3280.918,"text":"有不穩的傳言不穩定的傳言包括之前我們林佳永部長也在節目上曾提及需要特別關注我們和教廷的關係但同時也看到台灣與范締剛之間保持密切的交流尤其是在宗教的對話合作上這幾天教廷跨宗教對話部的副秘書長"},{"start":3282.399,"end":3298.673,"text":"這個包林神父也來到台灣那有關下個階段要如何來加強鞏固我們與范緹剛的這個邦誼外交部有沒有具體的一個規劃我們這個都持續在做啦那也還是跟委員報告一下那麼有一些基本的"},{"start":3299.454,"end":3326.912,"text":"工作一直在進行包括護房那麼包括一起辦活動那麼也一直在傳達我們是一個尊重宗教自由的國家我想教廷對這個有完全的一個了解跟掌握那麼另外一個就是說新的這個教宗選舉出來之後他的整個的相關的教廷的一些安排那麼也緊密的來我們就非常這個注意相關的這個事情的發展"},{"start":3329.513,"end":3347.612,"text":"台灣與梵蒂岡的情誼、邦誼已經83年了我們也希望外交部能夠持續強化和教廷在各個領域上的合作讓我們能夠穩固兩國的邦誼共同保障宗教信仰的自由一定另外"},{"start":3348.172,"end":3361.182,"text":"就美國挺台灣參與國際的部分,我想就叫次長,在上個月美國代表在聯合國安理會批評中國誤用2758號的決議,到這個禮拜美國眾議院通過兩項重要的友台法案,包括"},{"start":3371.213,"end":3395.662,"text":"台灣保證落實法案最主要是要強化美台行政部門的交流另外還有一個是台灣國際團結法案它的內容非常清楚的表示聯合國2758號決議未處理台灣在聯合國及其相關組織中的代表權的問題也未對台灣的主權做出任何的表述"},{"start":3397.383,"end":3417.557,"text":"我想結合安理會與眾議院兩個事件是不是代表美國的行政和立法部門有共識會以實際的行動來支持台灣積極參與國際的機會能否有效來抵制中共的相關論述"},{"start":3418.698,"end":3438.744,"text":"是,那麼有關2758,那麼這個聯合國2758決議,那麼中共一直在國際上面散播很多的曲解,那麼那個錯誤的這個解讀,那麼也強壓它的這個國際社會接受,那我們在這上面結合理念相近的國家,全力的來"},{"start":3439.804,"end":3465.222,"text":"正確的去詮釋那我們也很高興看到這個美國在這個眾院裡面跨黨派的議員支持用兩個法案就像剛才委員所提到的那最重要當然提到了這一個27584這個台灣國際團結法案這個台灣International Solidarity Act這上面的東西那麼我想這個都充分的展示了那其實不是只有"},{"start":3466.142,"end":3489.786,"text":"這個立法部門包括行政部門也一再的在重複的傳達一個清楚的訊息還包括您剛才提到在安理會上面就是2758這樣的一個決議並不涉及這個台灣而且也沒有排除台灣有異議的參與那麼這個是這個我們跟理念相近的國家共同努力的一個結果好"},{"start":3490.832,"end":3499.746,"text":"這部分我想也是請外交部能夠對於美國的友好的表述,我們應該要積極的來做一個"},{"start":3501.717,"end":3527.586,"text":"這個回應,也要讓這個國際感受到我們對於這個美國的這種對我們的友好,我們希望所有的友邦或是一些國家都能夠認同也能夠來對於台灣的一個支持我想這樣才能夠增加我們台灣在國際上的一個能見度,也可以讓我們與其他的國家有一個更好的一個邦誼"},{"start":3528.57,"end":3551.281,"text":"絕對謝謝委員長我們外交部長我們林部長已經在這個具體的感謝這個行政部美國行政部門跟跨黨派這個對台灣的這個支持那麼事實上也跟委員報告不只是只有美國歐洲很多的國家很多世界上理念相近的國家就一而再再而三的強調2758沒有這個處理台灣的問題那麼也沒有排除台灣有異議的國際參與好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝市長"},{"start":3558.766,"end":3582.183,"text":"好謝謝陳靜雲委員好下面我們請黃仁委員質詢我們請顏明慧副主任委員委員好"},{"start":3584.057,"end":3607.57,"text":"剛剛我聽到這個外交部次長所提到的就是我國的我國總共有個八個邦交那後來你再也有報告之後你也報告說台灣原住民族與太平洋區域多數島國地區的人民同屬南島與西的民族OK好待會我來問"},{"start":3609.281,"end":3618.268,"text":"我們屬於南太平洋這個太平洋以多數的島國的地區那既然"},{"start":3620.017,"end":3646.544,"text":"既然是以國際交流的項目經費只不過是1976萬這哪像是一個國際外交的經費這個是我要跟你提醒的今天不是因為加減的問題是因為你們沒有前瞻性而且是只是做格式化"},{"start":3647.324,"end":3656.438,"text":"沒有突破性沒有前瞻性當然經費就會有縮減所以這個是要提醒你們的等一下我要講的是我們"},{"start":3658.049,"end":3678.375,"text":"依照延民會目前的組織編列編制負責延民外交或者是國際事務的組織單位是哪一個每年用以延民外交的預算有多少剛剛我提的對不對好那延民會的業務單位包含圖管處、工建處、經發處、社福處"},{"start":3682.233,"end":3695.35,"text":"教文處、中規處、所有圖館處及工建處其他業務單位都有可能接觸到原民外交的事務是原住民外交是一個原住民事務"},{"start":3698.482,"end":3721.778,"text":"再提的外交議題然後最主要的價值是在以利益而利益為主軸的外交戰場上以原住民的情感連結化解各自國家利益間的衝突所以本席特別強調的我們應該以原民外交為外交困境的突破口"},{"start":3723.459,"end":3741.674,"text":"不只是因為本席具有原住民的身份那主要的原民外交是以人而非以國家為交往的主體這也是顯示原民外交有非常多內涵可以跨口"},{"start":3744.177,"end":3765.973,"text":"找出一个共通性那因此本席再请教言明会副主委如果言明外交可以涉及到语言情感文化经济等内涵言明会是不是需要一个专者的业务单位以统合这些可以外交上发挥的内涵本席建议言明会思考成立国际处"},{"start":3767.249,"end":3788.602,"text":"的可能性這樣才能發揮到力量請問剛剛我們邦交有八個邦交可是我們屬於太平洋南太平洋的民主的一個南歐以西的民主你們只有在這八個裡面的範圍內而沒有突破性到其他的"},{"start":3790.302,"end":3805.41,"text":"這個屬於這個南島語系的民主嗎所以這個就是你們現在要有突破性要有前瞻性你只有一個一年的預算一千九百多萬而已這什麼叫國際外交你如何突破"},{"start":3806.667,"end":3820.999,"text":"傅志偉你來說明一下是跟委員報告陳副委員所提到的台灣的原住民族是屬於南島語族的地區的發源地我想大家都有這樣的一個認知所以我們在107年就重啟了南島論壇這樣的一個NGO組織那這個部分"},{"start":3824.793,"end":3847.184,"text":"已經有15個會員然後一個觀察員那除了這16個之外還有包括澳洲、美國、加拿大也都會參與我們的一些交流所以我們也在語言、文化、產業跟學術、政策的研究都有每年這樣的一個工作在推動那我們現在已經很早就成立一個中和規劃處裡面的一個國際事務科"},{"start":3849.665,"end":3875.567,"text":"我想我們事務科的工作人力以目前這樣的一個狀況來推動現在還算是很順利而且也推動了不少在南島以西國家的這樣的一個交流的工作我跟你講剛剛我已經說明你們都是一個格式化對不對格式化沒有突破性現在原民外交是最重要的一環因為它不是以國家的利益以原住民的利益"},{"start":3876.848,"end":3890.394,"text":"跟我們整個南島語系的民主做一個連結性、語言性跟共通性的結合這也是在外交以外的能夠讓我們外交突破的一個重點"},{"start":3892.575,"end":3916.254,"text":"所以這個就是我要建議的是不是要建立一個成立一個國際處而讓它的編制讓它的藝創會有更多的然後推動我們這些原民外交這才是真正要推展的因為現在我們的外交現在美當初是一個困境搞不好還要斷了一個外交"},{"start":3918.393,"end":3932.567,"text":"我們原名外交非常重要的一環所以我建議是不是你們責成跟各部會跟外交部跟其他的部會裡面做一個聯繫是不是成立一個國際處的"},{"start":3935.65,"end":3946.017,"text":"可能性,這是我特別提出來的那另外就是,聯合國在經濟社會理事會底下的一個機構為聯合國土問題常設論壇功能是專門為聯合國機構提供原住民問題的專業意見"},{"start":3960.956,"end":3979.023,"text":"請問外交部次長和嚴明會副主委我國在這個論壇參與程度為何出席演講發言還是參與討論而已外交部要如何強化我國在此論壇的參與那外交部你先回答一下長生論壇"},{"start":3987.339,"end":4011.758,"text":"聯合國經濟及社會理事會底下的一個機構為聯合國獨駐問題常識論壇這已經是一個專責的一個機構了專責的一個機構了所以功能是專門在聯合國機構提供原住民問題的專業意見請問外交部你來問一下我想外交部是最外行提到這個問題的來問一下是"},{"start":4016.116,"end":4038.917,"text":"是 那麼因為是聯合國的這個組織那當然我們這個在中共的阻撓之下那麼不好直接參加但是我們包括我們這個我現在先馬上糾正你的這些什麼中共第一個我們在聯合國裡面就是一個少數民族的一個"},{"start":4042.458,"end":4057.071,"text":"這個少數民族的一些關係的一個夥伴關係怎麼會是跟中共有關係呢聯合國已經設定我們在台灣的少數民族是一個夥伴關係的一個角色那既然今天他已經"},{"start":4058.071,"end":4074.845,"text":"設出了一個經濟及社會理事會底下的一個機構為聯合國土住問題常識的論壇它就是一個專制機構門給你打開了但問題是我們嚴明會我們嚴明外交根本沒有涉入這樣的一個重點第二個"},{"start":4075.906,"end":4095.465,"text":"為什麼要讓你成立一個國際處就是要把預算增加然後編制增加讓他們真正的對於外交以外原民跟聯合國南太平洋這樣的一個國家裡面做一個連結做一個聯通這才是真正可以發揮"},{"start":4097.507,"end":4118.083,"text":"也謝謝委員對原民在國際事務上的推動的關心那有關聯合國的長壽議題論壇其實我們每年都會有原住民租人參加像今年的部分四月份舉辦我們有三個團體我們都補助他們來參與這樣的一個活動剛剛我就講了嘛你們都是格式化嘛現在你有沒有突破性的一個方法你現在回答我"},{"start":4119.461,"end":4132.668,"text":"還是你現在下次麻煩你用書面詳細詳查的未來你們要推動的原民外銷現在我們已經有無認所的大使"},{"start":4133.821,"end":4151.617,"text":"現在我剛剛我在兩屆的上一屆的外交部長包含這一屆的林佳龍部長我都會提希望還有一個有認手的大使希望你提出一個原住民的有認手的大使真正能夠拓展到我說"},{"start":4153.049,"end":4171.799,"text":"我們外交部麻煩你們重視我們原民外交因為我常提的原民外交現在你們外交部現在也沒有辦法再突破能夠跟建立跟其他國家裡面再做一個邦交而且甚至可能會有斷交的可能"},{"start":4172.459,"end":4196.801,"text":"所以要借用原住民的原民外銷跟南太平洋的立場拓展這樣的一個業務這才是真正你們要重視的好不好是 那副主委麻煩你書面的詳查詳密給我有沒有可能成立一個國際處好不好好 我們會書面報告送給委員來讓委員了解因為你們這些報告裡面就已經提出來了嘛"},{"start":4198.561,"end":4226.183,"text":"台湾原住民以太平洋区域多数岛国地区的人民同属南岛语系的民族不是只有八个邦交你们应该这一句话就是要拓展更多的邦交的以外的南岛语系的民族 好不好好 谢谢是 谢谢委员 谢谢好 谢谢黄仁委员下面我们请罗密尤林委员发言 谢谢"},{"start":4237.865,"end":4241.149,"text":"謝謝主席 有請袁銘慧中副主委羅委員好"},{"start":4246.48,"end":4268.548,"text":"副主委好副主委為了今天的這個議題本席有上網搜尋了南島民族論壇的這個網站結果一直都沒有辦法連上這個網站甚至還有顯示說下架了怎麼回事啊我們這論壇已經執行了五年居然連個網站都連不上去到底怎麼回事請問副主委"},{"start":4269.088,"end":4289.037,"text":"是 根據委員報告因為在我們這一次的經費的部分有減列了一千九百多萬那包括網站的違印這個部分當然也是涵蓋在裡面所以我們本年度的網站無法進行在治安的檢查跟更新的違印工作所以我們為了治安的考量先暫時關閉"},{"start":4291.705,"end":4314.703,"text":"所以是因為我們被刪了一千九百七十六萬跟這個有關係因為網站無法維護所以我們就停掉了這個網站因為這個中維署裡面大概一千九百多萬這個包括開一些會議的部分維持營運的部分的經費我們這個部分就剪裂了所以我們就沒有辦法只好做一個為了治安的考量"},{"start":4316.053,"end":4340.374,"text":"那這樣子 我們今年的南島民族論壇還有辦法辦下去嗎 請問各位報告 我們還是有 因為還有部分的經費也還在因為剛剛也提到我們的南島論壇或國際事務的部分不是只有在中規處 包括教育文化處 經濟發展處 社會福利處都有相關的一些經費在做國際交流或者世界研究民族的合作的相關工作"},{"start":4340.839,"end":4356.739,"text":"所以這個論壇還是可以繼續下去論壇的部分部分的工作可以繼續下去我們說你想的會有哪一些啊因為本席在想本來想說連這個網站都我本來想說看看過去五年來我們這執行的內容是什麼結果完全看不到所以除了臉書之外"},{"start":4357.359,"end":4368.003,"text":"這個我本來想說這裡面自己的專網可能會比較清楚結果完全連不上去結果是跟這個經費被刪有關係那我們這次如果是這樣子刪了1976萬將近2000萬的這個經費那我們這個六年計劃南島民族論壇六年計劃會受影響的項目會有哪一些呢"},{"start":4376.165,"end":4404.74,"text":"對這一次因為檢列了1900多萬大概都是在中規處裡面的業務費用中規處裡面的很多業務幾乎都沒有辦法進行了是不是包括所謂的可能執行委員會的會議還有論壇大會可能就會停辦論壇大會對還有包括帛琉總部以及台北秘書處可能暫時先停止營運大概是這樣子那這個部分也是因為檢列之後也要符合預算法的相關規定來做執行"},{"start":4405.359,"end":4419.735,"text":"所以目前這個都沒有辦法因為它是整個就刪掉了所以就沒有辦法挽回了對 如果是說凍結的話它有解凍可是這個是整個刪除所以目前今年度次勢必這些副主委剛才所講的部分是完全沒有辦法執行的"},{"start":4420.456,"end":4442.074,"text":"是 因為也要符合預算法的相關規定 既然沒有 既然是檢驗的話這個部分的業務大概要推動比較不容易OK 那當然剛剛我們莊委 黃元莊委剛剛有提到就是南島民族論壇計畫這個部分已經執行五年了 當然有很多需要檢討的這個地方因為像之前我們也看到這個立法院這個"},{"start":4443.435,"end":4464.004,"text":"也有提出來一些我們有些成果型跟效率型的這個績效這個指標需要去去做調整去做加強因為再來我們後面還有115年到120年的第二期的這個計劃那這個第二期的計劃能不能獲得支持我想未來調整的方向很重要這部分我在想黃榮主委剛才講趙董講的部分就是說績效的部分我覺得這個是有它的道理在"},{"start":4470.807,"end":4490.386,"text":"這個部分的話 我在想原民會這個部分要來做調整只是比較可惜就是說我們說我們比較擔心就是說會影響到我們這個國際交流的這個部分那剛剛一開始我們原民會就有提到就是說我們跟很多南島國家其實呢在語言文化上面有很多相似的這個地方那本席呢也是來自我們我在這個"},{"start":4492.388,"end":4509.479,"text":"南島語系國家出生長大所以也很清楚就是說我們的馬來語馬來西亞的馬來語其實跟台灣原住民的語言很類似是副主委您是排灣族嗎我排灣族屏東的那像這個數字我講四好了排灣族怎麼說四百四百我們馬來語叫N百然後五呢數字五呢五阿美族也是五對不對那十呢雙倍"},{"start":4521.49,"end":4537.19,"text":"那馬來西亞語 馬來語叫所以其實是非常相近的那我再請問一下我們 趙偉我們怎麼說阿美族 吉他我們也是吉他 或是咖咪對不對咖咪也是一樣對不對那你們呢"},{"start":4538.978,"end":4541.641,"text":"跟馬來語幾乎都是一樣嘛那周偉 姐姐 我 姐姐 怎麼稱呼 姐姐 哥哥馬來西亞語 馬來語也是哥哥"},{"start":4558.735,"end":4570.198,"text":"我們也叫嘎嘎 兄弟姊妹都叫嘎嘎 加名字就知道是哪一個嘎嘎眼睛都不用說了 嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎嘎"},{"start":4583.609,"end":4611.222,"text":"我们也叫Hujan,马来语也叫Hujan这样讲一讲,十几二十个单字是一样的所以你看我来自于马来西亚我们国家的马来语跟台湾族语跟阿美族语几乎都是一样嘛对不对那当然我知道像过去有很多马来西亚的这个原住民其实也到访台湾像我们马来西亚砂劳越的伊班族其实跟台东我们蓝语的这个达沃族"},{"start":4611.882,"end":4630.501,"text":"語言文化服飾幾乎都是一樣的所以我們跟這些南島國家的這個交流絕對不能夠斷這個因為說實在可能都還是有很濃密的這個血緣的這個關係所以我在想說我們真的是要善用我們在這些南島國家的這些資源"},{"start":4631.301,"end":4650.058,"text":"也許在國際上面有一些困難可是我們甚至可以經過民間的資源來拓展我們的原民文化我們原民的外交跟國際來做接軌那當然我必須要強調就是說其實我們不單單只有跟八個邦交國互動我們跟很多南岛"},{"start":4651.119,"end":4676.539,"text":"語系的國家互動印尼、馬來西亞、菲律賓我們都有很多很多的互動我在想說我們經過文化語言的共通性我們可以共同來建造一個台灣跟原民更加美好更加國際化的一個未來這是我在這裡很期待的一部分當然這也跟我自己的背景出身有很大的關係"},{"start":4677.72,"end":4698.884,"text":"那尤其是我在台灣跟很多的原民朋友在聊天的時候堂堂會發現說我們有很多的語言其實是非常的類似所以以本席的立場當然很希望就是說原民會這邊還有外交部這邊能夠積極地來拓展這個南島文化我想這是台灣一個很重要很美的一個資源啦"},{"start":4699.364,"end":4714.418,"text":"對啊那當然最後我還想問主委喔您認為說南島國家像太平洋很多小島都有很多南島民族他們到底起源是來自於哪裡大家都在討論您覺得是來自於哪裡"},{"start":4715.154,"end":4731.243,"text":"我想我們比較認同的論說是台灣是南島起源說因為從語言的複雜性還有植物的原生種很多都是來自於台灣那從語言學家植物學家甚至基因的研究台灣應該是起源我想有這樣的一個說法"},{"start":4733.965,"end":4750.901,"text":"民族的起源嘛所以像我知道說最近也有一些中國的統戰言論也就是說他們東南沿海才是可是我們可以發現那我自己本身來自於南海國家我們很清楚不管是在語言民族上面其實我們跟中國東南沿海其實有很大的這個相差很大"},{"start":4752.663,"end":4776.319,"text":"所以其實台灣應該還是真正的這個起源因為台灣的原名算是南島語系民族它跟漢藏語系民族的確是不太一樣是完全不一樣那剛剛委員特別提到的有關我們六年中長城計畫的部分我想我們也正在炒您下一期的六年那我們也會把委員還有主席剛剛的建議我們都會納入我們的新的計畫裡面OK 好 這個應該要改善了讓它更好 謝謝副主委謝謝"},{"start":4782.199,"end":4808.504,"text":"謝謝羅美玲嘎嘎的發言接下來由陳冠廷委員上台發言我們請次長蔡委員早"},{"start":4809.448,"end":4827.683,"text":"市長好市長最近我們阿里山它受到國際的矚目我看2025年5月6號國家地理雜誌它選列阿里山為台灣五大秘境那強調我們是雲海啊日出啊還有從日治時代到現在的這個檜木的歷史文化"},{"start":4828.103,"end":4852.978,"text":"他說阿里山是外國旅客除了台北之外最值得造訪的世外桃源那2025年也是今年的1月10號那在紐約時報也有公布2025年最值得去的52個地方那阿里山也是名列第19位那2024年10月那還有專文來介紹阿里山的這個神木的遺跡高山鐵道雲海日出等等那最近這一個這個升鐵"},{"start":4854.679,"end":4873.067,"text":"那重新請用那包含戴金德總統也還有行政院院長都有來嘉義我們一起來促進這些觀光我想請教一下外交部有沒有掌握這些近期的國際這些媒體對阿里山的正面報導有沒有考慮說讓邀請過去也有過2017年"},{"start":4877.028,"end":4892.177,"text":"現在跟過去2017年台灣的在國際的能見度是完全不一樣是增加很高的能見度所以我想請教一下有沒有儘速邀請駐台的使節包含眷屬來阿里山來參訪再一次來擴大辦理呢"},{"start":4892.952,"end":4911.702,"text":"如果我們一定會往這個方向來規劃那麼有的時候這個駐台的使節這個比較容易時間比較在都在這裡那麼另外說我國外的訪兵如果來台訪問那麼我們都會鼓勵他在台灣如果多留一下可以多看看那我們常提到是說這個阿里山的這個"},{"start":4914.564,"end":4936.705,"text":"這個阿里山跟蘭嶼這兩個是一個很好的應該要去訪問的地方那麼還有台南的這個台灣的這個最古老的那種文化傳承阿里山的這個山林之美那麼在這個蘭嶼的這個海洋之美我想這些地方我們都是希望能夠外國訪兵可以多探訪的地方"},{"start":4937.185,"end":4954.546,"text":"之後我們一定會安排這個駐台的使節去阿里山再去能夠去那邊看一看那麼了解台灣的這個很特別的地方配合今年這些重大的這些媒體的這些報導我覺得是可以好好的來去宣傳一波"},{"start":4955.046,"end":4980.88,"text":"那除了這個之外阿里山的森林鐵路也是我們台灣推展世界遺產的一個重要的潛力點那當然包含文化資產的保存法第11條之一要求政府繼續推動這個我國的世界遺產潛力點還有一些非物質文化遺產的潛力點等等的那我希望外交部也來全力協助好不好因為這個是已經不是我們嘉義我們的選區的這一個重要的一個"},{"start":4981.72,"end":5005.659,"text":"警官而已他甚至是具備台灣挑戰世界遺產的潛力點那我們這些能做的我們就把它再擴大辦理好不好一定那另外就是我們今天有提到原住民族那包含原住民原民會有邀請駐台使節來參與這個座主年度的大型祭典表示說這些跟其他國家的這些原住民族也有這個交流的可能性"},{"start":5006.099,"end":5024.449,"text":"所以這部分是不是也跟跨部會一起來協助協調當然那麼這也是我們部長的理念我們部長才在提到就是剛才所說的總和外交那我們也把這個原民外交能夠放在這個裡面第一個是推廣我們的原住民文化它的這個豐富跟它的美以及對於整個台灣"},{"start":5025.149,"end":5051.073,"text":"文化的這個豐富多樣性的一個充實這是一個命案第二個是說那麼像我們讓這個更多的原住民參與到這樣就好像剛才趙偉所提到的那麼很多時候我們在國際上面可能遇到一些困境但是從文化的角度從這個民族的角度切近我想是一個非常好的一個方向這我們就在總和的外交裡面我們都把它放在一起來思考"},{"start":5053.052,"end":5062.59,"text":"市長這個歐洲的這個勝利日是在幾月幾號歐洲的勝利日二戰的這個勝利日5月8號那今天是"},{"start":5063.57,"end":5091.819,"text":"今天是5月8號所以我們今天有規劃總統我規劃這個相關的活動對這是一個很重要的一個活動因為過去我們應該沒有這樣的潛力嘛對不對今年是因為是80年齁那麼他的意義比較重大那麼也在說說明了一個事情就是說其實這二次大戰的一個基因就是那麼侵略必敗嘛齁那麼這個這個各個國家那個民眾他的自發性的這個抵抗那麼我覺得這是一個意義重大的一個事情"},{"start":5092.579,"end":5111.894,"text":"對 意義重大的事情那中共它是長年去壟斷它二段的敘事就是它們的這種它們的敘事前把勝利歸功於是中共它自己但是事實上大家都知道在不管是整個對二次世界大戰對這個反抗極權的這一個努力來說的話基本上"},{"start":5113.033,"end":5132.965,"text":"中共基本上都是在國軍的後面所以透過這種類似用我們跟這個二戰勝利80週年的紀念活動把這個話語權拿回來對我國的敘事模式是非常重要的這個部分今天有沒有掌握大概我們會不會用什麼樣的方式去詮釋我們這個二戰勝利的意義"},{"start":5135.006,"end":5161.404,"text":"我們了解到今天這個總統會發表相關的演說那重新定義我們中華民國在整個二次世界大戰之中的一個地位尤其要再一次的提醒國際社會那麼在這個中國在土地上面領導這個軍民那麼去打贏的這個二次世界大戰是在這個中華民國政府的領導之下那麼中共就像剛才委員所說的"},{"start":5161.964,"end":5181.852,"text":"中共從那個時候的策略都講得很清楚,最重要是要保存實力,也要跟國民黨在鬥爭,我想這個東西必須要很清楚的做。今天我們注意到習近平在去莫斯科參加二次大戰勝利日的文章也指出了,"},{"start":5185.553,"end":5199.725,"text":"扭曲了這個歷史第一個是說當然是中華民國領導這樣的一個二次世界大戰這個中國地區的人民的軍民的這個反抗第二個很重要的是我們跟理念相近的國家結合一起的取得了這個勝利"},{"start":5200.575,"end":5224.706,"text":"好 謝謝次長 另外就是說最近包含美國的這些參眾議員的這些國會議員都有一再強調還有包含2758號決議文的中共的這個錯誤詮釋我覺得已經開始起到效果了 這已經有國際上面慢慢有創造出新的這個共識那過去他們想要用自己的敘事權來扭曲2758號決議文已經有 已經被我們相當程度的來去破解了"},{"start":5224.966,"end":5245.969,"text":"所以這部分也請次長跟這個外交部來一起去把這個2758號決定的物用物體來形成全球民主國家要聯手的一個修正錯誤認知的一個趨勢再來最後韌性台灣的論述我想次長應該有看到最近的一期的經濟選是在以台灣為封面"},{"start":5246.837,"end":5271.763,"text":"那我要講一件事情就是說當我們講到以色列的時候我們會不會覺得說他怎麼一直都面對著這一個很多的這種周圍國家的挑戰你會覺得他是一個風險很大你就會覺得他是一個很危險的一個地方嗎還是你會覺得以色列是一個有能力面對這些挑戰有能力面對這些風險可以管理這些風險還可以運用自己的科技來去反制這些風險的一個國家"},{"start":5273.325,"end":5297.591,"text":"我想委員說得很正確就是說其實以色列一直被當成是一個在強靈還世的情況之下能夠那麼自詡保持自己自身的獨立那麼能夠面臨到任何的因應任何的挑戰包括您所說的就是總體的這個國力科技等等的這的確是台灣的模範我們也希望台灣之後會被人家看到那這也是說在這個賴總統的帶領之下"},{"start":5299.711,"end":5321.243,"text":"在這個內容的帶領之下我們要增加韌性台灣要增加國防要能夠全社會韌性這種種的東西我們希望讓人家知道我們是一個能夠堅持我們的國際地位堅持我們的國家主權堅持我們的民主生活方式的一個國家所以說你們要特別是外交部就必須要把這個論述講清楚"},{"start":5321.863,"end":5349.809,"text":"就是說我們不會否認風險的存在但我們不是一個被動等待風險的一個受害者而是一個能夠管理風險然後來去面對風險然後來去可以面對強權的時候還能夠有韌性去定謀的一個力量這個論述外交部要趕快統整好 跨國部會統整好好 謝謝謝謝陳冠廷委員的諮詢接下來有徐巧欣委員上台諮詢"},{"start":5359.223,"end":5362.786,"text":"謝謝主席那我們有請這個外交部的次長委員好"},{"start":5370.67,"end":5389.555,"text":"你好,那對於這個教皇的離開,我想大家都感到非常的難過,因為這個梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲的唯一而且重要的友邦。那我想要詢問這次教皇的喪禮,為何我們的賴總統是沒有辦法出席的?"},{"start":5392.659,"end":5414.33,"text":"第一個是基於陳前副總統陳建仁是教廷的長期這邊然後他跟教宗有非常密切的關係我們跟教廷協調了之後畢竟他們是因為教宗逝世他們是主要的"},{"start":5416.351,"end":5440.826,"text":"我們大概講的就是商家尊重他的一個意願尊重對方的意願然後能夠有給我們好的一個安排所以對方認為說尊重他們的意願是陳建仁前總統、副總統去而不是我們的賴金德總統去嗎因為呢當時2005年我們教宗這個《若望保祿二世事事》的時候是由前總統陳水扁總統到梵蒂岡參加追思彌撒的"},{"start":5446.169,"end":5464.363,"text":"那所以呢那當時都有報導說呢這次的出訪簽證到通關都讓這個義大利政府的最高得到這樣子的領域因為他也有過境的這樣子的一個狀況那我想要問說為什麼這一次那就只有層級上比過去還要來的低"},{"start":5465.723,"end":5488.091,"text":"我想應該不能夠這樣看啦 層級上面齁 那麼這是一個國家的象徵第二個 但是它是一個宗教的一個國家齁 那麼梵蒂岡 所以是說我們有沒有提出說我們希望賴總統去 還是說我們也沒有做這樣的提議我覺得這個是都是由總統來決定齁 這個由誰他自己或是由這個他指派的誰來當代表 這個決定權是在總統"},{"start":5490.9,"end":5509.836,"text":"所以你不確定總統有沒有提出他希望可以參加喪禮他也有可能他提出來就是不希望參加由陳建仁去就好了我相信這都是在雙方的一個好的溝通互動的協調裡面是嗎那陳建仁在擔任特使那請問他有沒有見到川普總統本人呢"},{"start":5511.603,"end":5530.204,"text":"據我們的這個媒體的掌握是沒有沒有那只有跟前總統拜登合照是那麼這次是否跟美國前總統合影你們認為叫做重要的外交突破那如果是的話為什麼我們在新聞稿裡面呢是沒有提到的"},{"start":5532.711,"end":5553.825,"text":"您說說我們不會把教宗的喪禮當成是一個純粹外交的堂合跟前總統拜登的合影那變成是說我們在外交上有重要的突破這跟所謂的出席喪禮是不一樣兩件事情"},{"start":5555.166,"end":5582.677,"text":"我們是跟這個陳前副總統代表總統主席之後可是你上面都有提到啦我們跟巴拉圭然後呢其他的這個部長啊我們都有交流之意啊所以如果您說您看齁如果您你看這是我們的新聞稿啊然後我們有哀悼之意嘛然後叫停統計嘛有多少人去嘛陳特使抵達的時候呢引導然後呢跟哪一些人都有見面之外呢還有跟巴拉圭的眾議長"},{"start":5584.378,"end":5588.459,"text":"然後伉儷瓜地馬拉文化系體育部長及邦交國及有盟國家代表交流之意所以跟您剛剛講的是不一樣的啊您剛剛說我們因為去參加這是人家的喪禮所以我們不會把這個跟對方可能有其他的國家有合影啊或者是有互動啊寫出來"},{"start":5608.226,"end":5632.895,"text":"可是不對啊我們的新聞稿上面就寫了我們跟巴拉圭以及瓜地馬拉這樣子互相交流之意的部分但是我們見了這個拜登前總統卻完全沒有提到為什麼會這樣為什麼會要做這樣的決定呢沒有沒有我覺得這個事情不是這樣就是說我們是自然的互動然後我們那跟拜登總統就不自然嗎"},{"start":5633.988,"end":5640.655,"text":"很自然啊很自然嘛對啊所以自然所以我們有照片也有照片露出啊欸不是啊我就問嘛為什麼我們的新聞稿沒有發"},{"start":5642.475,"end":5661.263,"text":"的原因 理由是什麼啊就是你們因為你剛剛告訴我說你們沒有發的原因在於你們沒有發的原因在於這是人家的這個告別式所以呢我們所有的這一些跟其他的友邦也都不會寫出來可是沒有啊你們新聞稿上有寫啊所以你剛剛說的並不是實話啊那所以說既然今天有跟這個這個我們拜登前總統合照那為什麼不放呢"},{"start":5673.014,"end":5701.093,"text":"我想一個照片應該說明了很多的事情是嗎那新聞稿沒有寫那又說明了什麼呢好有2013年我們方濟哥就職的時候前總統馬英九也到了梵蒂岡觀禮在教廷人員引導之下呢一起見到這個我們的教宗然後呢有熱情的握手好那在這個就職儀式上面馬英九前總統被安排在第一排的位置那我再請問喔"},{"start":5702.134,"end":5727.51,"text":"接下來他們正在進行改選請問賴清德總統會不會到梵蒂岡我們盡力的盡全力來跟對方協調但是那個現在教廷最重要的事情並不是來處理這個外交的疑解而是要先透過書密會議選出新的教宗我當然知道啊但我問的是接下來因為前面我告訴你啊那前面呢這個是陳前總統喔"},{"start":5729.972,"end":5746.102,"text":"那他呢都會去參加了這樣子的一個喪禮然後呢這個呢上任新的教宗呢前馬總統呢也都有去那問題是這樣子兩次的就是說如果說這個告別式的部分那我們"},{"start":5748.124,"end":5764.277,"text":"這個我們的賴總統沒有去那呢人家新任的教宗上任了之後我們也沒有去會不會覺得那中間是發生了什麼樣的事情導致於導致於說都沒有辦法參加是我們不願意去參加還是別人沒讓我們參加"},{"start":5765.837,"end":5783.214,"text":"跟委員報告 這個還牽涉到是說其實總統他的行程的安排那麼他的這個整個總統的安排行程的安排有比參加這個重要嗎他有什麼行程是賴總統是有什麼行程是比參加我們的友邦教皇的這個告別式還要來得重要的"},{"start":5784.335,"end":5804.041,"text":"我想不透欸我們 鮑偉勇我們一定全力的爭取跟對方的協調能夠促成適當的由總統指派或是總統親自出席這個我們一定會全力的來拍對啊 那你們都說全力會了那可是我們在教皇喪禮上面那就沒有看到這個賴總統嘛所以賴總統沒有去是派我們的這個副總統去陳副總統去是因為他行程太忙"},{"start":5813.922,"end":5823.603,"text":"我想這個總統沒有告訴我們他的考量是什麼我們雙方一定是有好的協調那你們好的協調那是不是請問義大利有沒有反對"},{"start":5825.567,"end":5845.026,"text":"義大利沒有義大利那個教廷這還是主要是跟教廷的這個互動你們因為但是會經過義大利嗎對一定會經過義大利對啊所以我問的是義大利有沒有反對義大利有沒有跟你們協調我們主要還是跟教廷協調之後再來跟這個義大利協調所以嘛我問了我想是包括我問了嘛義大利部分"},{"start":5845.626,"end":5859.898,"text":"有沒有反對沒有反對沒有聽說沒有聽說所以完全就是因為賴清德總統他自己有行程所以沒有參加不是 我也不是這樣說我想是總統有他的來決定所以總統決定不參加的"},{"start":5861.829,"end":5883.698,"text":"總統覺得是說陳前總統陳前副總統跟教宗的實際的這個有個人的情誼本身又是天主教徒非常受到教廷的重視我想這是一個陳前副總統是一個尊重商家的決定但是問題是賴總統如果去的話成績更高啊"},{"start":5884.656,"end":5904.532,"text":"那當然都很好那我覺得就是說總統有他的一個想法跟他的決定那所以說未來我們如果說選出新的教宗也一樣是派陳前副總統去賴清德總統身為這個很重要的我們的歐洲的友邦結果呢他都不去參加因為他行程很忙然後他認為說這個呢這個陳前副總統那跟這個教宗然後跟教廷比較熟就派他去那問題是這樣子的話對我們國家的友邦"},{"start":5914.94,"end":5935.175,"text":"當然我知道陳前副總統他跟梵蒂岡他是天主教的那是有好的關係但是更重要的是我們如果是賴總統去的話他的層級更高能夠代表我們中華民國去致意那是更重要而且更讓對方感受到這是我們友邦"},{"start":5935.755,"end":5942.058,"text":"這一定是如此的嘛所以我才會覺得說為什麼第一個我再把問題講一次那時間到了也不用特別回答就是第一個為什麼我們的賴總統是不是自己去參加而是呢請了我們陳前副總統去參加第二個我們在過程當中呢總統是怎麼樣去決策的是行程太忙還是受到什麼樣的一個打壓"},{"start":5960.726,"end":5967.891,"text":"第三個前面的包含是陳前總統就是陳水扁總統以及馬英九總統都有親自到了這個梵蒂岡那為什麼我們到現在我們的賴總統都沒有去過再來呢跟拜登拍照前總統拜登拍照為什麼我們沒有放在我們的新聞稿裡面而是放了其他的一些我們的友邦的互動最後我們也要強調的是那接下來接下來"},{"start":5988.624,"end":6008.83,"text":"如果教宗選出來之後我們要到就職的官裡那到底是賴清的總統他去或是不去那我們當然都希望賴清的總統可以爭取去而不是像這次這樣子我知道陳前副總統他跟教宗他跟這些梵蒂岡的官員是非常親近的"},{"start":6009.85,"end":6022.84,"text":"但是他身為我們的友邦我國的元首出席那是更重要的一件事情所以我們也希望就是說呢我們能夠在接下來的這個官裡的部分因為總是會選出來嘛那還有一段時間選出來官裡的時候我們是由賴總統親自到"},{"start":6029.125,"end":6052.777,"text":"而不是說呢哎呀我行程很忙那所以呢就沒辦法去就再請別人那因為我覺得你呢你們比較熟我就請你去不是的梵蒂岡是我們在歐洲重要的友邦應該由我們的元首出席這才是我們中華民國對梵蒂岡最大的敬重所以我希望外交部可以有機會的話也要跟總統溝通這一點"},{"start":6055.638,"end":6079.35,"text":"不是說因為你跟他們很熟就這樣不是我們是元首代表中華民國到梵蒂岡跟我們的友邦致意無論是喪禮或者是觀禮都是一樣的所以我們希望能夠外交部能夠促成這樣子的一個行程才能展示出我們對於梵蒂岡作為一個友邦的最高重視謝謝謝謝謝小新的資訊接下來有馬文金上台資訊"},{"start":6094.948,"end":6096.774,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩請次長沒關係 慢慢喝"},{"start":6106.505,"end":6116.85,"text":"市長好市長今天我們特別在外交部的議題上面可是剛剛也有委員關切到就是包括2758號決議的這個部分其實它對我們來說其實影響是非常大"},{"start":6126.415,"end":6154.746,"text":"看到索馬利亞民航局在4月底的時候他通告索馬利亞政府根據聯合國大會第2758號決議堅持一個中國的原則通知所有航空公司的營運商還有就是所有由台灣或其附屬機構所簽發的護照跟相關的旅行證件他都不得再用於進出及過境索馬利亞的聯邦"},{"start":6155.782,"end":6171.1,"text":"也就是說它禁止持台灣護照入境或過境外交部對此事其實已經有提出強烈譴責而且也要求立即撤銷禁令也呼籲我們國人暫務前往索馬利亞跟索馬利蘭"},{"start":6172.882,"end":6202.066,"text":"那就我們跟索馬利蘭在2020年7月的時候我們已經有互設代表處然後其實在這過程當中我們也捐助了一些糧食還有其他的可能一些資源我們有協助興建台灣大道那現在發生這樣的事情我們目前要怎麼因應除了我們去抗議或者要求他撤銷禁令那他如果不願意呢那我們目前住管的人員有多少"},{"start":6205.562,"end":6232.968,"text":"你回答一下委員好我們目前在那邊駐館人員包含我們技術團跟那個對在索馬利蘭原則大概20位左右包含技術團及醫療團的人員那他們現在可以自由進出嗎他目前的話呢因為他目前都還沒有進出的這樣子需求那我們因為這個事情是在發生在4月底的時候目前跟我們一些理念相關的還有索馬利蘭政府我們共同的一直在解決這個問題希望可以進出有一個比較好的一個結果"},{"start":6233.408,"end":6251.966,"text":"因為他現在限制我們使用我們的護照那會是很大的麻煩而且我們也互設了這樣子的代表處所以他今天這樣的作為他雖然現在還沒有立即可能要離開這樣子的需求可是他遲早一定要回來那就這個部分我們希望可以有更積極的作為那"},{"start":6253.087,"end":6273.144,"text":"要怎麼樣去維護他們的權益跟安全這個可能因為也剛發生可是我們特別提到這個部分我們也希望就這個我們接下來也一起討論好了因為近期如果有什麼樣的進展再提供給我們我知道美方可能也有一些動作可是能夠達到什麼樣的效果我們不知道"},{"start":6275.202,"end":6294.568,"text":"我們相信應該是會有效果的那麼我們當然也跟這個索馬利亞表達強烈的一個抗議尤其是遺憾的是他們錯誤的去扭曲解釋2758號決議文然後用這樣以為理由來禁止我們持有我國的護照的這個民眾"},{"start":6295.128,"end":6299.089,"text":"經過這個索馬利亞進出索馬利蘭那這是一個遺憾的事情剛剛提到這樣子因為我們在國內我們怎麼樣去譴責或者我們要去訴求其實都沒有用因為事實上它不斷的在發生就像之前南非我們本來也是設代表處後來"},{"start":6313.394,"end":6320.198,"text":"把它降成經濟文化辦事處這個也是因為他們大概也是以2758號決議這個來做決定的另外有很多我們參與國際組織的障礙大概也都是因為這樣包括國際刑警組織過去我們也曾經以中華民國的名義其實曾經是正式會員"},{"start":6334.605,"end":6339.247,"text":"可是後來被排除了那還有國際民航組織還有世界衛生組織等等我們至少在WHA其實我們也曾經還是觀察員可是現在什麼都不是所以在我們就這些發生的事情"},{"start":6353.58,"end":6378.719,"text":"顯然大家沒有辦法去同時去認可2758號決議的這個部分所以就這個發生的這些我只是舉例那其他還有更多因為我們面對國際非常多的國家大概都是以這個他們自己國家的解釋我們沒有辦法去改變那對我們來說就會線索越來越大影響越來越深而且我們可能也會受到更多的一些傷害"},{"start":6380.26,"end":6388.181,"text":"那在4月底的時候美國在聯合國安理會會議中他就2758號決議美中在對此有激烈的辯論代表這個議題其實在安理會至少被實質討論而不是只有在每年的聯合國大會裡面靠友邦或者友好國家的發言支持而已這可能也是開啟我們能否參與國際組織實質的第一步這是其中一個另外"},{"start":6409.465,"end":6430.945,"text":"在去年5月巴勒斯坦在聯合國會議會員的聯合國會員議題上面也被聯合國大會以壓倒性的多數通過決議雖然最後認定他符合聯合國憲章應該是要被接納雖然最後這個案子被安理會否決可是至少巴勒斯坦"},{"start":6432.346,"end":6440.452,"text":"獲得了國際上普遍的一個支持跟認定這是他們努力的結果我們很希望如果我們可以得到國際的認可這個還有很多要努力的方向就我們剛剛提到的一個就美國在安理會的這個部分他們做了實質的討論那我們不要每年都是只計算多少友邦幫我們發言然後我們不斷的在原地踏步另外還有一個就是"},{"start":6461.026,"end":6474.117,"text":"日前美國眾議院他通過台灣國際團結法案那在這個部分他強調2758號決議沒有處理台灣或台灣人民在聯合國或相關組織的代表權問題他們現在主張是這樣可是這個在"},{"start":6480.462,"end":6499.61,"text":"過去2023年吧他們也曾經通過對不對後來他沒有成為正式的法案是為什麼因為既然美國這麼支持我們眾議院也通過了可是他也沒有成為正式的一個可以執行的法案那時候是為什麼那你現在又提出來他不會面對同樣的問題嗎那我們請北美司來回答一下"},{"start":6505.031,"end":6524.318,"text":"那我以為那個美國國會的立法它必須要透過就是它一個法案必須要是從這個要參院跟這種兩院都要通過要這種生效2023年你講那個它應該是一個決議案啦決議案基本上是它不是沒有法律拘束力的這樣所以其實那個並不是說有沒有這個生效的問題這樣子"},{"start":6525.498,"end":6529.94,"text":"因為就是他提出來他們也希望也是一樣通過那就跟現在一樣那當然還需要參議院然後最後還要總統他支持通過他可能才可以執行可是如果我們一直重複在這些動作剛剛我們講的其實2758號對我們所有的線索越來越嚴重"},{"start":6545.006,"end":6570.647,"text":"包括我們在民航組織裡面其實我們現在很多航空公司已經把我們的名稱全部都改掉了越來越矮化可是我們也拿他們一點辦法都沒有包括過去其實甚至在川普總統第一任的時候他對於中方這樣的要求其實他是有強力去抗衡的可是現在還是全部都被改掉了那我們有什麼樣因應的做法"},{"start":6571.167,"end":6585.563,"text":"因為他都改成中國台北我們還是一樣結合理念也跟委員報告像剛才您所說的這個眾院通過了一個非具有強制力的這樣的一個決議文之後我們也看到了"},{"start":6586.404,"end":6614.296,"text":"雖然他沒有變成一個法案他本來就是設計是這個樣子但重點是在於是說我們看到在聯合國那個上面的時候美國的代表美國的這個政治參事就像您這上面所說的這個吳庭他也很正式的來在上面表達美國的一個立場然後在美國的行政單位也多次的表達他們對2758他們的詮釋他們的立場其實是跟眾院參院所提出來的決議文是接近的所以這是我們的努力的話"},{"start":6614.716,"end":6616.657,"text":"還有更多的國家因為時間的關係我覺得不用用文字上的敘述我們要的是實質的結果就像我們為什麼特別提巴勒斯坦來做一個對照其實主要就是這樣因為你今天如果已經有"},{"start":6632.721,"end":6658.477,"text":"這樣子的一個方向那可以做到什麼樣的程度因為你要受到國際普遍的認同我們現在是越來越限縮它不像是有被更認可的一個現象發生所以這是我們現在困境這也是外交部要努力的部分不然我們編了那麼多的預算我想在重要的這個部分其實它是沒有被山東預算這個部分如果要把它做到更好這個才是一個好的成績好不好"},{"start":6659.818,"end":6684.426,"text":"好 謝謝委員的鼓勵 這也是我們外交部的未來努力的方向後續的進度 剛好我們講的蘇瑪麗蘭這個部分可能提供一些書面 比如說現在應該要怎麼做那會有什麼樣的一個因應的措施我們現在在那裡的人員包括技術團還有我們的駐在的一些相關的人員他們的處置方式提供書面資料 謝謝"},{"start":6687.861,"end":6690.703,"text":"謝謝馬文君的質詢 接下來由沈伯陽召委質詢謝謝主席 有請次長"},{"start":6713.267,"end":6727.69,"text":"因為這次今天的題目是跟這些南島國家南島於西的國家有關所以我先稍微問幾個小細節但是在這個之前剛好昨天發生了一件事情就是德國在台協會有特別發文針對國民黨的主席去指控對方是納粹這樣的用語"},{"start":6735.672,"end":6747.324,"text":"那我覺得說真的啦大家對外都是要一致所以這雖然這是一個國民黨的行為但畢竟這是一個等於是德國在野協會等於是一個外交上他們提出這樣的一個譴責那我們應該用什麼樣的態度來回應"},{"start":6748.476,"end":6772.217,"text":"那麼想說德國在戰後對於他們自己過去這個侵略別的國家那麼對內發展這個極權統治然後壓迫國內民眾深刻的一個反省這個我想這個應該是世界的一個共識那麼昨天的這個德國在台協會也說不要做一個不當的類比我想這也是一個很好的呼籲當然我們沒有"},{"start":6773.178,"end":6794.441,"text":"這個透過這個東西來介入到這個國內的政黨之間的競爭或者他們互相的一些這個說法但我覺得是說對於就外交的這個觀點來看的時候那麼我們尊重別的國家歷史尤其一個國家能夠深刻的反省他們過去的侵略的行為他們過去的這個獨裁統治我覺得這是我們要必須尊重的地方"},{"start":6795.081,"end":6822.436,"text":"對 因為我覺得這件事情畢竟它就是一個我覺得算是一個外交事件那我現在覺得比較困擾的地方就是說像我前陣子在接待這些外賓的時候他們也會問說那為什麼你們在這個立法院的黨編會說你是美國的間諜那因為他這樣講好像把美國當作是一個很負面的名詞那今天這個等於是國民黨的主席在用這樣的一個詞語的時候其實在當然是在外交上面我認為當然是一定是不當啦但是我們要怎麼去解釋說現在台灣產生這樣的一個現象"},{"start":6824.977,"end":6847.955,"text":"為什麼會有這一個國會的最大黨然後會用這樣的方式來指責有時候我們可能還是需要一個對其他國家的一個完整的說明因為我覺得當然我們可以講說這是一個政治上的對方在攻防但我覺得就是說台灣在尤其是這個歷史脈絡尤其這五六年以來到底為什麼這樣的一個用詞可能變多了那我們應該要怎麼去做因為這個最早期這些用語都是中國在講的"},{"start":6848.975,"end":6867.238,"text":"中國很愛用這些什麼納粹、蓋世太保等等的用語所以就是說這種因素是怎麼進入到台灣社會今天我覺得其實我們也是可以去做一個說明讓國外的人知道現在台灣產生的一個現象小小的建議因為回到今天的題目因為今天題目最主要還是這個"},{"start":6868.789,"end":6892.798,"text":"我們的這個南島語系相關的一個國家那第一個呢這也是最近的一個新聞就是說這個中國對帛琉的滲透手法的一個系統化就是說那這個當然因為是我們的邦交國他想要去爭取想要去滲透這個所在多有但我想要問的反而是另外一個就是我想次長也應該知道我們之前都有在做這一個所謂的中國滲透指數是那我稍微在這個review的過程當中我就發現這個"},{"start":6897.181,"end":6915.698,"text":"這個以新加坡、馬來西亞、印尼等等這些國家為例這個印尼的排名在我們的指數裡面開始往前了然後即使其他的國家看起來稍微掉了一點比如說馬來西亞等等但是其他的分數其實都還是很高所以我把它幾個稍微做了一下盤點這個今天有點蕩蕩的"},{"start":6918.56,"end":6941.539,"text":"第一個呢這個是印尼的部分那個比較深顏色的那個圈圈是這一次那比較淡顏色的那一個紅色呢是上一次2022啦也就是說這兩年之內呢印尼呢在那個中國對印尼的影響力軍事還有一般的這種社會比如說像TikTok的使用等等之類還有在學術它就變得比較強了那另外呢我們再看到這個"},{"start":6943.438,"end":6967.993,"text":"這個新加坡新加坡反而是媒體的影響變強我覺得這是一個警訊然後最後呢我記得這邊有列了馬來西亞就是馬來西亞是在軍事然後還有在這一個媒體之內都變多了然後還有科技所以就是說呢像他們這種滲透尤其是在這幾個說真的對我們來講也都是要爭取的國家那這個都有在特定的幾個面向增強那這個針對這一點外交部有沒有什麼策略"},{"start":6969.145,"end":6990.458,"text":"當然我們這個就整個的媒體我想重要的東西對於FIMI那麼剛才委員所提到像對於媒體對於各界的這個進行的這種滲透的這樣的一個事情或是透過影響力作戰來進行的這種對於他的這個認知的這個形塑那麼我們一定要提供一個另外一個另類的論述"},{"start":6991.138,"end":7012.591,"text":"我們希望能夠分享我們怎麼樣子在台灣能夠去跟這個外國的這個影響力的這個作戰能夠對抗的過程我想這個很多的單位在做我們政府也結合了民間的一個力量同時他也是在我們全社會任性的這個考量裡面那麼希望能夠透過我們的公司合作透過我們的外交上面的交換的關係"},{"start":7013.672,"end":7038.549,"text":"也跟委員報告是說這是一個完整的東西包括從智庫包括從為學者學術的交流到政府的這個組織的互動我們希望能夠來跟這個友邦在這上面理念相近的國家能夠有好的一個互動能夠共同的來對抗這個中國在這個地方進行的這個認知作戰以這個菲律賓為例那麼他們非常重視這樣的一個問題他們也尋求跟我們能夠"},{"start":7040.23,"end":7068.931,"text":"經驗分享那麼菲律賓我們剛才不在這個委員的這個提到這個裡面來說他們也面對到非常多的這個媒體的這個滲透那麼有利於這個大陸的這樣的一個言論的一個形塑那麼像在您所提到的馬來西亞這個印尼跟這個新加坡那都會面對到同樣的一個問題我想這個透過公司公司協力透過這樣的很好多層次的一個互動我們希望大家能夠共同面對到這樣"},{"start":7069.711,"end":7087.626,"text":"但做最後面來說的話,一個還是一個他們的執政的想法,他們選擇跟誰站得比較近。第二個是我們很願意跟他們的各個層面的交流,如果說他們的執政黨對於這個東西比較不重視的話,我們希望能夠跟他們的民間社會跟他們的學術界能夠有多的互動。"},{"start":7088.106,"end":7104.344,"text":"對我覺得跟民間的交流真的很重要因為我覺得像這個軍事的增強外交部大概不太能做什麼啦但是譬如說媒體的部分假如他們媒體的滲透變多就表示他們在當地接收資訊的時候可能中國的資訊就變多了這也是說真的就是過去台灣就是我剛剛前面那個問題過去台灣這個"},{"start":7106.526,"end":7135.425,"text":"幾年以來中國的資訊在台灣變得非常非常的多所以才會像那種中國像納粹啊什麼等等的用語真的是非常滲透到我們整個台灣人對於這個彼此之間的攻擊那其他的國家也可能會有面臨一樣的狀況因為它等於中國的媒體變多嘛那我們在做這一個總和外交的時候我們非常強調像剛剛提到智庫啊學者啊等等的交流但是就是對於一般人民這一個部分我就好幾次在這一個外交部的質詢都一再的強調就是因為"},{"start":7136.566,"end":7155.455,"text":"因為剛剛我們講的這幾個媒體的中國滲透的加強他們的人民會被影響那我們要怎麼去反過來能夠去影響他們也會變得非常的重要不然他們就偏聽嘛他們可能就只會聽其中一邊的聲音那我們的聲音會變少那這當然跟我們的預算有很大的關係啦但是無論如何就是要怎麼去加強這一塊我覺得應該是最重要的"},{"start":7156.275,"end":7171.336,"text":"我們最近在跟外館的這個溝通互動上面我也請他們特別注意到有關於這個所謂的社群媒體上面我們是不是能夠找一些網紅能夠比較是客觀中立的網紅然後把我們的資料提供給他們"},{"start":7172.137,"end":7196.921,"text":"但是事實上有的時候就是說在社交媒體上面的這個空間畢竟很多的網紅還是有他的流量的一個需求還有他的一個可能有一些精神的考慮那這個方面因為的確像委員所說的我們很多的預算比較有困難所以我們希望我也鼓勵我們的外館能夠用比較有創意的做法比如說找"},{"start":7197.601,"end":7213.001,"text":"更多的網紅來報導我們的這個活動這個東西我們在這個努力加強對 因為我覺得齁這個內容的本身應該是非常的重要因為中國在砸這樣的東西的時候它的錢會越砸越多那如果我們跟它變成一種金錢上的軍備競賽我看大概也是贏不了"},{"start":7213.582,"end":7240.07,"text":"所以就是說外館在這件事情上面要怎麼多多去跟當地的NGO合作因為這個NGO有動能那NGO的動能它可能雖然只佔當地的社會不到百分之一但是它是能夠常常上街頭的它講話可能會有對人民的說服力我覺得這方面的加強可能甚至會比學者來得更為重要那麼我們就遵照委員的指導我們在加強跟公民社會的互動上面"},{"start":7240.41,"end":7267.682,"text":"我們也請我們這個台灣的公民社會團體關心這個問題的公民團體包括增加媒體嗜讀提升媒體嗜讀的公民團體一起來合作努力對然後這個我剛好就連結到不好意思再給我30秒就是說呢我們看到我外交部有這個海外青年宣傳的先鋒人才啦那這先鋒人才其實是對對方對方的那個人才來做培育我覺得這個應該就是可以加強的部分因為他們很有可能他的出身本身他可能就是NGO然後呢他又有動人"},{"start":7268.422,"end":7286,"text":"然後如果他能夠進入這樣的一個專案他就能夠在當地對於我們台灣到底現在在國際社會的處境我們台灣目前主張的這個民主的價值有多重要啊為什麼我們在對抗中國這樣遏止的這樣的一個侵略其實這個對他們來講在這樣的一個專案裡面我認為是應該可以再往下發展"},{"start":7286.431,"end":7309.967,"text":"我們完全認同,那麼事實上就好像以今天的這個主題,原住民外交為例那麼我們也找了很多特別很多的太平洋島國的青年領袖來台灣一段時間跟我們的公民社會團體,跟外交部,跟我們的政府,跟我們的民意代表能夠互動,能夠提升就像剛才委員所說,我們不太可能跟他玩金錢遊戲"},{"start":7311.388,"end":7337.324,"text":"那麼中國的這個整個的經濟量體那麼大他可以做這個很多用黨活的力量我們希望能夠建構跟這個民間社會跟這個社區領袖未來的社區領袖之間緊密的關係我們在我常常提到是說如果他們在做一帶一路這些大的這種土木工程的話那麼我們希望能夠增加他的苛責性有公民社會的accountability是我們能夠著重的重點"},{"start":7338.024,"end":7365.795,"text":"對啦 因為我覺得像今天排這個題目它之所以還有一個重要性就是原民來講說真的這個因為中國現在對原民也是做出很多的動作他們嘗試要把原住民做重新的定義嘛而且是對台灣的原住民做重新的定義那如果我們這邊沒有一個相對應的對策它應該就不是單純原民會的事情了它應該會是跟外交部有關的因為它這個定義是要對其他的國際社會說我能夠去定義台灣的原住民這個對我們來講是危險的是 這非常重要的問題那我想說"},{"start":7367.435,"end":7388.206,"text":"這個中國人看跟我們這邊看原住民的事情是不一樣他們是用所謂的少數民族對我們來說原住民不是少數民族原住民是這個地方他的原來的主人那麼說面臨到後來的社會的變遷所以我們對於原住民看著他的地位他是原來的這個地方的主人跟他說"},{"start":7388.686,"end":7410.511,"text":"它只是一個少數的一個必要所以我們也希望在國際上面能夠結合有同樣的想法的這個國家或者是民間公民社會的領袖原住民的這個領袖原住民的這個社群一起來Promote這樣的一個概念好 那謝謝市長 謝謝縣長 謝謝主席謝謝沈榮亮召委的資訊接下來有林楚英委員上台資訊"},{"start":7413.635,"end":7435.306,"text":"在上海執行之前 待會王定宇委員執行完畢之後休息五分鐘謝謝主席 有請陳正次委員好"},{"start":7435.831,"end":7460.483,"text":"你好 早安 正是我要延續剛剛沈伯陽委員的話題就是有關於昨天這個中國國民黨的主席朱立倫因為用不當的類比把這個台灣目前的政治跟希特勒來做惡意的連結以至於在昨天晚上的時候德國在台協會很罕見的是在下班時間而且用英文原文的方式直接點名批判來看一下下一張這個是個最新的圖片"},{"start":7465.442,"end":7490.8,"text":"我必須要講法國在台協會也連結了德國在台協會他們的聲明荷蘭在台協會也連結了德國在台協會的聲明剛剛我特別去看了一下還有另外歐洲經貿辦事處其實也在昨天晚上連結了德國在台協會的聲明我不知道外交部有沒有看到這些連結"},{"start":7491.963,"end":7517.013,"text":"有有是我必須要強調這有可能形成一個外交災難我為什麼這樣講因為過去在立法院當中國民黨每一次都對外強調他們佔有60%的民意言下之意這一個一直強調自己擁有60%民意的在野黨正在引發外交危機因為"},{"start":7518.353,"end":7539.539,"text":"從德國到法國再到荷蘭再到剛剛我看到的歐洲經貿辦事處我知道身為外交人員是國家的你們剛剛包括您的回答都說這個是別的政黨的政爭但是我現在給你看到的是外交部要動起來喔"},{"start":7541.159,"end":7557.465,"text":"這個顯然已經引發了歐洲其他國家的不滿因為對於歐洲的民眾來說這是一段慘痛的歷史當他們被惡意的扭曲跟曲解而且是一個自稱在台灣擁有60%民意支持的政黨的時候這個會不會是跟國際社會說台灣有60%的民意同意這樣的講法"},{"start":7568.128,"end":7590.398,"text":"這會不會形成一個新的外交災難尤其是在現在此時此刻是一個歐戰結束80週年的時刻尤其是在歐戰結束80週年這個時刻我想大家都應該要稍微重新來這個審視一下這樣的一個歷史那麼這樣的一個侵略者侵略國家別的國家"},{"start":7591.438,"end":7612.005,"text":"在國內極權壓迫造成了很多傷痛的事情人類也為此經歷了一個世界大戰 死傷無數我想我們必須要嚴肅的來面對到這樣的一個問題我們是希望不會造成其他的外交的災難外交部也會盡全力來跟其他的"},{"start":7613.426,"end":7630.561,"text":"這個國外駐台的這個辦事處能夠說明這個絕非台灣的主流的一個民意同時我們也會跟其他的部會結合加強台灣民眾那麼尤其是年輕的人對於這個歷史的一個正確的認識正確的一個解讀"},{"start":7631.141,"end":7636.542,"text":"好我覺得這非常重要本席也不認同國民黨擁有台灣60%的民意的支持更不認同這個是一個台灣60%民意所會講出來的話台灣人民沒有像他們這樣這麼沒有歷史常識但是這個確實是一個非常危險的事情喔因為"},{"start":7650.426,"end":7667.272,"text":"對於外交部來講最近真的很忙啦來下一張本席其實發現外交部現在對於我們國內不斷的有造謠的情況發生比如像昨天外交部必須要及時來澄清就是有關於這個美台談判當中沒有涉及匯率"},{"start":7668.012,"end":7684.125,"text":"那這個部分呢都是外銷轉內銷直接引發國內的恐慌或者是製造事端那麼另外就是在更早之前國民黨的前立委蔡正元不時指控日本前防衛副大臣中山泰秀"},{"start":7685.166,"end":7698.476,"text":"然後去造謠這個無中生有的事情來抹黑賴清德總統我看到外交部也都第一時間有澄清這個我予以肯定但是其實本席也發現就是鄭次您過去也在國防院當任過執行長你也當過國安會的諮詢委員"},{"start":7701.918,"end":7722.524,"text":"在這樣的過程當中,我必須要提醒的是從剛剛的希特勒的說法,我不知道你有沒有注意過在2024年的6月12號海峽之聲就曾經用標題說越來越多的證據表明賴清德正在向希特勒靠攏我想你一定知道海峽之聲是一個什麼樣的媒體是,當然,這是中國的統戰媒體"},{"start":7725.885,"end":7748.772,"text":"而且也是跟解放軍有密切的關係所以本席其實要提醒的是在這麼多的國際的亂局當中這個如果也包含著中共聯手內外夾擊一方面中國在國際上面要前置台灣的聲音包括現在外交部你們知道嘛114年度的對外宣傳的總預算是被在野黨砍到一毛不剩"},{"start":7749.693,"end":7763.833,"text":"當中國在對外發聲而我們國內又有在野黨或者是有心人士在跟中國協同作戰的時候這個時候就變成是外交危機或是外交必須要有所警醒喔鄭次有沒有觀察"},{"start":7764.955,"end":7783.552,"text":"有,那麼也跟委員報告,如果容我再稍微說一下那麼在這個俄國侵略烏克蘭之前也是用同樣的一個說法那麼指控一個猶太背景的一個總統是納粹那我想這是一個非常不好的一個說法"},{"start":7783.732,"end":7811.852,"text":"而且是說用這樣的一個說法這個尤其是用海峽之聲這樣的一種管道來指控那麼我們的總統不時的指控我們總統我覺得是不是釋放出一種什麼樣的一個特別的訊息我們會非常的小心第二個是說我們也會跟這個國際社會再一次的澄清這個絕對不是台灣的主流民意那我們知道是說其實政黨之間有競爭這是一個民主社會裡面才會有存在的一個現象"},{"start":7812.452,"end":7841.306,"text":"像這樣的一些東西的存在正式證明了我們的國家非但不是一個極權統治的國家是一個這個民主自由的一個典範我們可以溝通這樣的一個概念好 謝謝鄭次的回應這非常的重要喔當這個中國的戰狼在國際上面不斷的咆哮要升高對立的同時如果台灣內部也變成是戰狼化而且不斷的附和中國這個是一個非常危險的尤其是我剛剛特別提到的那就是"},{"start":7842.086,"end":7845.749,"text":"現在外交部是沒有對外發聲的經費被砍到剩下付的那這個是相對的困難我們只能再利用更多的宣傳但是可能跟中國對比這種砸錢的遊戲我們是實在也沒辦法玩了來下一張"},{"start":7858.957,"end":7877.532,"text":"但是我們看到的是說至少過去台灣因為外交不同人的努力以及大家齊心協力我們確實還是看到了一些績效包括這一陣子以來我特別整理了從3月20號比利時聯邦眾議院關切中國持續對台灣的威脅的法案決議案再到這個歐洲議會"},{"start":7881.743,"end":7903.96,"text":"波蘭的友台小組捷克的參議院到5月5號也就是前幾天美國的眾議院都通過了台灣保證落實法案跟台灣的國際團結法案等等這都證明了就是中國的戰狼外交是失敗的所以他們現在想要用這種扭曲歷史或者是國際上面的決議的方式來"},{"start":7905.725,"end":7933.222,"text":"讓台灣在國際上消失是越來越沒有辦法是但是在這個部分本席還是要提醒就是當更多的國際友人支持我們的時候我們在對外發聲的部分還是要持續加強是好那麼繼續的我想最後利用土西我利用一點時間就是我們其他的民主夥伴相繼的發聲的時候那這個在我們參與國際組織包括接下來的WHO的會議當中我們是不是可能有更多的進展"},{"start":7934.281,"end":7960.373,"text":"那麼WHO一直是我們努力的一個方向我們希望WHO、WHA能夠秉持的這一個為所有人的健康那麼也讓沒有不落下任何不落下任何的一個人這樣的一個精神那麼尤其是說在疫情期間台灣的表現也再一次的說明台灣can help那麼我們參與到這樣的一個國際組織絕對是有正面的對於國際社會有正面的幫助那我們也透過兩個事情嘛"},{"start":7961.533,"end":7990.437,"text":"第一個是對於2758號的一個正確的一個詮釋各個國家紛紛的發聲第二個是說對於我們台灣能夠對於國際社會做出實質貢獻這兩點上面直接說服這個東西不是一個容易的路尤其是在於我們的外交經費被刪減的一個情況之下尤其是在這個國際的宣傳上面有它困難量但是外交部絕對不會放棄我們的職責我們會做所有的方法想出有創意的一些做法來能夠增加國際的支持"},{"start":7990.697,"end":8015.731,"text":"好 我不希望 我剛剛前面問的第一個問題有關一個德國在台協會這樣的一個聲明包括其他歐洲國家都串聯會影響到我們後續參與國際組織在這裡雖然歐洲是 夏思黨不在然後因為運功請假但是我要提醒歐洲絲必須要好好的來關注這個事情因為它已經是造成了歐洲國家的大串聯這個不可以等閒視之好嗎"},{"start":8016.874,"end":8039.58,"text":"好,我們今天就會跟所有的相關的這個歐洲駐台的這些辦事處能夠有一個互動然後跟他們再次的說明那麼我們會注意這樣的一個事情然後我們也跟他表達說這個一定不是台灣的主流民意好,謝謝謝謝林淑英的質詢接下來有王定宇委員上台質詢"},{"start":8049.509,"end":8074.93,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩政次市長我還是先從德國的駐台協會這個聲明來先講起在外交場域上其實駐地單位使館代表處"},{"start":8076.591,"end":8094.497,"text":"點名該帝國的特定政黨進行所謂的批評其實是非常罕見非常罕見那這已經是第二次是上一次是所謂的特定政黨就國民黨的上次一個年輕人穿著納粹衣服去法院"},{"start":8095.928,"end":8121.544,"text":"這一次是直接點名國民黨跟朱立倫喔我看德國在來協會的那個聲明裡面是點名台灣的特勤政黨跟黨主席然後用詞呢很重叫做失望與不安不僅是德國在來協會歐盟分享了德國在來協會的官方的這個聲明那我們都知道他們的態度那這其實是一個"},{"start":8122.952,"end":8140.48,"text":"有人說德國沒有權力干涉台灣內政這毫無國際觀反對納粹反對侵害人權是國際普世價值如果講到這個叫做侵害他國內政之鬧第二次笑話那我們知道以色列現在有一個國衛團在台灣"},{"start":8142.598,"end":8169.258,"text":"裡面有一個擔任過國防部長有一個擔任過農業部長有一個擔任過通訊部長三個內閣承認部長的重量級國會議員然後這個團呢我印象涵蓋三個到五個政黨人現在正在台灣所以我們看到歐洲的態度了請問一下以色列來到台灣訪問的團對這件事情目前有沒有態度或者Maya駐台代表有沒有態度"},{"start":8169.858,"end":8186.711,"text":"我們請亞非斯來報告委員,目前我們還沒有看到他們這個團有相關的一些態度的說明那以色列駐台協會呢?目前我們還沒有收到相關的一些資訊因為通常他們會是第一個反應可是講納粹,這一次是德國先有反應所以這會變成國際事件,這會上國際媒體"},{"start":8190.174,"end":8204.385,"text":"那我也相信這些駐台的代表們他們對狀況是很了解的他們其實就是怕國際誤以為台灣都這樣子他才點名特定政黨以免國際以為台灣人都這麼丟臉"},{"start":8205.766,"end":8234.159,"text":"而這個特定政黨不思反省還用網軍點名去攻擊德國駐台協會我覺得這個是本來是各政黨的內部我不想講但這個影響到台灣的國際形象所以外交部要妥適的處理是我們一定會跟這個各個國家能夠說明這個不是台灣的主流因為它裡面也特別提到在國際的評比不管是言論自由或者是所謂的施政的透明度反貪腐指數"},{"start":8235.259,"end":8255.533,"text":"或者是民主的排名台灣幾乎都亞洲排名前兩名國際排名我們甚至於是網路自由度亞洲的排名第一名這樣的國家去類比二戰時候的納粹已經是不倫不類了那如果要攻擊所謂的獨裁我們隔壁那個國家中國最獨裁你就拿那個類比就好了"},{"start":8256.618,"end":8271.591,"text":"所以這個事情不僅是把內政政黨的惡鬥搞到鬧國際笑話傷害的不是政黨之間的利益傷害的是台灣國際形象所以這個事情本席在這邊第一題就拿出來請外交部"},{"start":8272.472,"end":8296.562,"text":"可能有一個縮帖好好說明那這些政黨我相信這些駐台代表包含歐洲各國他特別會點名政黨其實相當程度是認同台灣整體不會這樣子我認識的台灣人民甚至我認識的國民黨朋友也沒有人這麼假的我不知道這個政黨怎麼會這樣子好我第二個要請問的是北美斯各位先請回北美斯有沒有注意到"},{"start":8298.035,"end":8324.014,"text":"在美國國務院有一個所謂的各國的關係的有個定義表比方說這個United StatesTaiwan Relations這個United States Relations with Taiwan有一個定義表那他們不是針對台灣啦他對全世界各地各國都會有這樣的定義表這個定義表上一次review更新是什麼時候"},{"start":8327.202,"end":8341.868,"text":"在台灣的部分是今年年初的時候2月嘛我印象川普就任後1月20號就職2月份才剛更新對台對中國大概對130幾國的關係表有重新定義那昨天"},{"start":8343.078,"end":8362.829,"text":"這一個國務院的對各國的關係表通通撤下來我看到有有媒體報導說台灣的被這個拉下來不是我看起來他是全部都有重新更新在更新中的時候二月份更新的頁面現在都看不見了北美是有沒有掌握了解目前是什麼狀況"},{"start":8364.843,"end":8392.432,"text":"其實這個情形已經有好幾個禮拜了那我們其實之前就已經問過就是透過AIT還有華府都有了解那美方的回應是說其實這個並不是針對台灣或任何是全面性的他們因為主要是那裡面它是美國100那裡面有100多個國家的專門關於介紹它是全面下架因為它說裡面很多國家的這些資訊都是兩年以上都沒有再更新"},{"start":8392.912,"end":8407.669,"text":"把國務院二月份剛更新嘛現在在五月份才過了不到一季他又全部重新要review一次他是把所有的他現在所有全部在更新所以全部先拉下來那台灣的頁面會不會有所變動"},{"start":8409.25,"end":8429.316,"text":"這個我們還要再繼續了解但目前就是說他們是要全面檢視然後在最後再重新把可能要掌握一下有關台灣的部分有關對亞洲各國日本中國我們台灣第一島鏈相關國家我們不能等它發生可能要先了解它大概有些更新如果台灣就跟二月份一樣不變能夠事前掌握"},{"start":8431.488,"end":8460.026,"text":"這一個川普在5月6號說了一件我覺得蠻有意思的就是這標準的川普風格說這兩天會宣布一個他用的英文叫做Earth Shattering就是地球會動的就震動地球的大消息而且告訴大家這跟貿易無關那而且對那個國家他有個特定國是一個他們想要得到卻一直沒有得到的一個大消息大發展"},{"start":8461.772,"end":8491.201,"text":"你們有沒有試著去猜謎看看或掌握這個情資他在講什麼這個我們大概不太好去猜啦但是說就這個台美關係的部分我們現在看到的包括他在這個聯合國首次的發聲這個聯合國我要糾正一下2758號決議文事實上從Greenfield擔任美國駐聯合國大使是一直到之前之前川普第一任的最後一任駐聯合國大使"},{"start":8492.486,"end":8520.62,"text":"都有講過2758號決議文在兩年前兩個助理次卿來到台灣把所有駐台的外國辦事處韓邦邦交國邀集開會請他們就2758號決議文的正確決議呢進行詮釋鼓勵大家認知到當年的2758號決議文那個文本大家隨便網路調都有了裡面根本沒有提到台灣講的是中國代表權由"},{"start":8521.32,"end":8539.528,"text":"所謂的毛澤東的中華人民共和國所取代結束完全沒有提到台灣所以2758號決議文無赦台灣這也就是這兩天剛通過的一個台灣國際團結法案的根本精神而台灣國際團結法案是美國的國會通過的"},{"start":8544.79,"end":8557.053,"text":"那在國際社會上大家現在包含了英國、澳洲、加拿大、美國、荷蘭、比利時、捷克、歐盟各國、馬紹爾群島都通過2758號決議文無色台灣美國有好幾個州的州議會也通過2758號決議文無色台灣你知道這是什麼嗎"},{"start":8563.775,"end":8583.785,"text":"這是台灣2300萬人參與國際社會的法律基礎那中國當然緊張因為中國就是從1971年開始拿2758號決議文說你們台灣已經被中國代表了所以你沒有資格參與國際社會任何跟台灣建交的或者跟中國建交的都要跟台灣斷交它的根基就是2758號"},{"start":8585.026,"end":8589.372,"text":"所以2758號決議文就是阻止台灣2300萬人國際參與的法律戰中國已經濫用了將近40年他亂搞這個東西錯誤的扭曲用這個阻止台灣參加IKEA INTERPOL"},{"start":8603.953,"end":8627.579,"text":"包含我們一直要參加的世界衛生組織都是跟2758號有關所以當你看到國際主流社會都在通過說對啊那個文字內容根本沒有談到台灣那中國會反擊索馬利亞就是一個反擊他叫他那個胡仔國叫中國的附庸國胡仔國索馬利亞出來說什麼"},{"start":8628.559,"end":8638.133,"text":"根據2758號決議文持台灣的護照的不得入境索馬利亞誰要去他那裡啊索馬利亞那海盜國我坦白講台灣去那邊很少啊"},{"start":8639.096,"end":8666.756,"text":"索馬利亞是一個不值得尊重國家但是他這個動作就顯示中國想要利用他的胡宰國來玩2758號決議文的法律戰而這法律戰建立在事實的根基上本來就無色台灣如果無色台灣美國兩年前兩位助理次卿來到台灣鼓勵世界各國了解2758號決議文的真實"},{"start":8667.697,"end":8677.19,"text":"然後鼓勵大家跟台灣可以進行官方的往來這是一個很大的突破所以我現在你剛才提到2758號我先跳離開那一題"},{"start":8678.462,"end":8698.334,"text":"根據不管是美國剛通過的國際團結法案或者美國在聯合國的大使我印象有三次提到27582的原文而且是跨民主共和黨兩任政府那目前這個國際法理戰中國除了用索馬利亞以外它還會你們有沒有掌握情資它還會叫哪些胡宰國出來講"},{"start":8700.866,"end":8726.085,"text":"你不好用這個字啊他其他的相關的邦交國因為我想他在全球南方喔那麼在這個索馬利亞這個事情並不是單獨的例子當然那包括之前跟我們斷交的南泰很多的國家跟他建交的時候都重新的在陳述了他每一個國家建交都會拿2758號出來說出來但我說會做大動作說禁止持我們國家護照的人不能入境目前還有沒有其他國家"},{"start":8726.724,"end":8744.661,"text":"目前我們並沒有感覺到有這樣的一個跡象會擴大那麼畢竟每個國家跟中國的這個關係因為禁止台灣拿台灣護照的路徑以現在國際社會來講損失的可能是那個國家這絕對是 台灣的經貿實力你不來就不來 不來就不來我們台灣是有實力的國家所以因為時間的關係"},{"start":8747.644,"end":8765.898,"text":"這個2758號決議文世界各國都根據事實做出對台灣國際參與有利的決議我本心很遺憾我們在立法院只有全世界民主國家現在我們台灣的國會無法就這個通過在來黨要提出的是恢復一中的決議文那個會鬧國際笑話所以2758號決議文在國際的氛圍這樣的狀況下我們在"},{"start":8771.002,"end":8798.529,"text":"這一次不管是世衛大會或者是Interpol ICAO這些相關民航組織等等兩年一次的會議各國應該會在那邊再重申2758號不應該作為阻止台灣參與的法律基礎是那我們外交部應該加大一些遊說的動作但我還是很遺憾我們對國際發聲的沒宣相關的費用被藍白刪到變零元你們是砍到零嗎是有沒有剩一塊"},{"start":8799.605,"end":8815.134,"text":"有沒有剩一塊好像沒有你知道砍到零跟剩一塊差別在哪裡剩一塊還可以追加還可以救回來砍到變零根據預算法我們還不能找其他理由編回來一個國家的外交是代表國家的聲音聲音被"},{"start":8816.095,"end":8839.411,"text":"把喉嚨聲帶都割掉了竟然是我們自己國家國會所為這個是比較遺憾但是外交人員辛苦了還是要幫國家發聲因為今天時間太短沒辦法把題目問完但是請注意到就是目前美國正在發聲的國際重新定義以及當然川普個人主義個人色彩很重所以他所有重新定義創下了一些先例"},{"start":8840.211,"end":8855.965,"text":"要往對台灣有利走如果對台灣不利的時候這個先例一旦設下來我們可能將來會費很大的力氣才能拉回來可能北美斯跟相關同仁要加油一下謝謝謝謝王定一委員的諮詢現在休息五分鐘五分鐘之後繼續詢問"},{"start":9215.812,"end":9220.775,"text":"現在開始開會我們請陳貝育委員上台置信好謝謝主席有請次長"},{"start":9236.158,"end":9264.577,"text":"委員好好 次長早安我想跟次長繼續來討論外交部可以做的運動外交是那運動外交這件事情其實我屢次的質詢都已經講過我們來看下一張在九月MLB海盜隊會有一個台灣日那除了台灣日這件事情我之前已經跟外交部討論我認為外交部可以做更多事情但很令人開心的事情我們台灣的無人鎖大使劉伯鈞他將擔任開球的來賓那我不知道次長您知不知道他為什麼會成為這個開球的來賓"},{"start":9266.738,"end":9288.104,"text":"我覺得她是表現非常傑出的一個女性她同時也是首個重要的一個女的裁判我想她具有代表意義市長講到部分的正確第一個其實是因為MLB海盜隊是第一個設置女性裁判室的大聯盟球場這是第一個"},{"start":9288.684,"end":9312.232,"text":"第二個 去年他們還舉辦了美國女裁判的主題活動所以對柏軍大使發出了這個邀請那當天他除了去開球之外我其實非常好奇我們外交部在這件事情上有什麼可以助力的可能或者是如何讓這個活動以外他除了去開球之外我們可以讓相關的效益放大我們有沒有可能有什麼樣的想法"},{"start":9314.928,"end":9336.886,"text":"除了我們的一般的行政協助之外我們也希望那麼劉伯鈞大使去這一趟能夠發揮最大的一個效應那麼就是說我們進行運動外交那麼一個具有代表性的人物在這麼具有一個重要性的一個球場做開球的這樣的一個事情我們希望能夠把它相關的效應能夠做到最大但是"},{"start":9338.155,"end":9365.693,"text":"還是遇到一個問題是說我們的的確是這個對外宣傳的一個這個經費非常的不是非常有限是沒有嘛所以我們希望能夠透過更加有創意的一些活動不只是跟這個橋界的互動也希望能夠跟這個美國主流社會能夠傳達這樣一個訊息我們是個非常重視體育的國家我們是非常重視運動的國家不過次長你剛講到了已經有兩個很有創意的方法一個是也許可以辦跟橋界的交流是"},{"start":9365.973,"end":9392.828,"text":"那甚至是呢跟當地的中小學辦交流我覺得這應該也是一個可能不需要花經費我們在沒有經費的節居的困難的情況下運用我們的創意讓台灣的運動外交可以擴及到在美國當地不同的生活圈不同的族群不同的文化生活經驗裡面所以剛剛你講到跟僑界交流也好啦跟當地的學府交流啦辦相關的演講啦座談會應該也是我們可以做的事情"},{"start":9393.308,"end":9412.966,"text":"那因為現在其實時間還早還有一點時間喔後續這邊我希望可以看到外交部更積極的規劃讓這件事情的效益放大好嗎是我們一定會這樣來做那因為你們外交部自己其實有一個外交部國際青年大使計畫是他有沒有機會做一個整合或是做一個結合"},{"start":9416.963,"end":9444.005,"text":"沒關係 讓您的幕僚來幫您回答委員好 我是NGO國際會執行長江振偉有關於外交部國際青年大使我先報告一下 今年的部分大概是在八月下旬會到馬紹爾跟關島進行相關青年大使的訪問團計畫今年的部分比較放在原住民的主軸上面"},{"start":9444.665,"end":9463.499,"text":"那有關於就是說是不是在明年可以結合相關的這個運動外交的國際賽事來辦理的話我們現在可以考慮朝這個方向來做思考那我們現在就是說明年的這個國際青年大使計畫我們會有把它擴大的一個想法"},{"start":9464.059,"end":9484.898,"text":"沒關係 我先尊重你們的工作期程安排喔確實我們提早規劃是對的但是因為我已經提到了外交部國際青年大使那就算錯過跟博軍今年到美國去的時間但我相信我們持續用運動外交作為主題應該是一個好的方向那不要忘記了美加墨2026世界盃也是可以提早規劃的事情好不好好 我們一定照辦"},{"start":9485.438,"end":9512.263,"text":"好 謝謝喔 來最後一個來第二個我們還有另外一個非常優秀的無人鎖大使戴茲穎那我想喔今天的主題是南島的問題嘛我們來看一下關於南島語系國家的總和外交我認為戴茲穎大使可以發揮很重要的角色在印尼跟馬來西亞這些國家他們對於語球的熱愛這件事情我相信如果透過運動外交的策略或者是相關有創意的方法應該也可以促成更多的互動對不對"},{"start":9513.733,"end":9531.378,"text":"絕對是好那就拜託你們要納入相關的規劃當中不管是透過剛剛這個執行長這邊你們必須用這個管道或者是其他的管道所以我想我就具體的要求外交部應該要持續跟MLB各對台灣日的規劃的可能性我覺得這個我們一起加油再來搭配既有的青年大使計畫不管是在"},{"start":9531.778,"end":9553.948,"text":"今年看起來來不及了 明年或者是後年還有所謂的美加末世節盃最後運動外交要拜託你們納入相關外交部持續長期推動的規劃因為它絕對不會只有運動部的事情 好嗎完全認可 而且要往這個方向來努力好 那我剛說的相關的事情有機會在一個月內給我們相關的規劃報告嗎可以 我們以書面來回答好 沒問題 謝謝市長 謝謝執行長謝謝 謝謝主席"},{"start":9558.062,"end":9581.399,"text":"謝謝陳培宇的質詢接下來有曾振全委員上台質詢曾振全委員曾振全委員曾振全委員不在接下來有李坤成委員上台質詢李坤成委員李坤成委員李坤成委員不在接下來有鄭天才委員上台質詢"},{"start":9593.406,"end":9621.475,"text":"主席 各位委員有請這個次長 陳次長還有這個中副主委次長好 中副主委好委員好你好 你好嗎的意思你好剛才這個羅美玲委員是這個用馬來西亞的語言"},{"start":9622.659,"end":9629.21,"text":"跟我們中副主委對話還有我們的召委是你的感受是怎麼樣"},{"start":9629.961,"end":9657.154,"text":"非常精彩喔那麼我們也認識到是說其實南島語系包括說這個馬來語裡面也有相當的一個成分我覺得那就讓我們對於所謂的南島的外交也能夠擴及到更大的一個範圍我覺得這是非常正面而且我也體會到是說其實台灣的這個原住民族還是有很多共同的地方然後跟在境外這也是昭偉剛才所提到的不是只有國對國我想說這一個民族文化"},{"start":9657.634,"end":9671.047,"text":"也是我們外交重要的一個資源完全認可這個我們委員會這樣的一個想法認同這個這個召委這樣的一個想法好,非常謝謝你這個從美國的語言學家"},{"start":9672.233,"end":9697.045,"text":"或是其他国家的演习家都认为台湾是南岛民主的发言地这个不是我们自己说的那我自己也是公务员出身我在人民会服务的时候民国88年开始在人民会服务当时"},{"start":9699.076,"end":9726.199,"text":"只要是跟南島民族國家我們的邦交國有相關的這些民族文化的活動或是需要去交流的部分外交部都會請人民會指派人員是然後帶我們相關的原住民的團體到這個相關的國家我自己啊"},{"start":9727.967,"end":9756.718,"text":"在這個當處長教育文化處長後來當副主委就去了這個諾魯瓦魯斐濟紐西蘭等國家當然其他的這個副主委或者是其他的主委也去過其他地方是所以這個部分我們去真的是"},{"start":9758.7,"end":9786.83,"text":"非常非常的我們就用自己的語言去跟他們對話非常非常的親切是我們被外交部邀請去參加經費都是外交部的是不是不是嚴明會的是外交部的經費所以這樣的一個互動對兩國之間不管是政府機關"},{"start":9788.513,"end":9806.579,"text":"或是這個人民都有非常非常好的一個互動對外交的這個非常非常的有幫助所以這個部分這個外交部這幾年做得不夠我來說這個也要透過部長去跟總統報告過去啊無論是"},{"start":9816.588,"end":9844.184,"text":"這個前任的李登輝總統他比較少後面的陳水扁總統或是馬英九總統他去這些南島國家都會請原住民的立委或是地方政府的相關的人員一起去這個就是能夠更好的一個"},{"start":9846.67,"end":9874.939,"text":"外交的一個交流所以這個部是一個很重要的請這個外交部來做參考是好 這個次長請回座來 中副主委委員好剛才漏了這個我也跟次長講漏了一個中華民國台灣的原住民也曾經駐斐濟的代表尤哈尼伊斯卡卡夫的也請這個跟部長講"},{"start":9876.465,"end":9889.995,"text":"好這個南島民族的交流我剛才有講過去都是外交部那當然從這個人民會編列了這個擬定了這個南島民族論壇的計畫108年合定當初合定的計畫是7億3千多萬109到114年度"},{"start":9904.81,"end":9923.073,"text":"那當然這個到今年年度請問一下明年的你們還要訂嗎明年我們現在正在訂新的計劃好這個可能會變成是要訂可以訂但是千萬一定要審慎而且不要"},{"start":9924.195,"end":9949.721,"text":"因為我們研明會的預算已經夠少了啦是是研明會的預算夠少你應該積極的去想辦法去協調外交部提供相關的經費我剛講過過去都是外交部出的所以這個部分連那個你看對語言你都還要對國外的建築語言我們台灣現在是十六組對不對四十幾個方圓北"},{"start":9952.034,"end":9980.707,"text":"下次加上今年年底啊十月以後今年十月以後會增加什麼組十月二十八號按照憲判十七號可能會增加平埔相關族群對 平埔族群有幾個學者按照大概九到十六之間啦也是十幾個啊是那議員更是他們議員更是所以我們經費已經不夠啦他們的議員大概也都已經是兵委或是嘛你還要把經費給這個帛琉"},{"start":9982.143,"end":10007.192,"text":"你看 帛琉的辭典 我們還要協助可以請外交部協助啦我們協助 經費要由外交部啊所以這個部分 要花六百多萬對於原住民族而言我們的語言是瀕臨消失啊 對不對更需要去加強 這個時間的關係"},{"start":10013.37,"end":10015.311,"text":"接下來有鍾嘉斌委員上台諮詢 鍾嘉斌委員上台諮詢 鍾嘉斌委員 鍾嘉斌不在 蘇青前委員上台諮詢"},{"start":10034.917,"end":10057.877,"text":"蘇欽前委員蘇欽前委員蘇欽前委員不在楊瓊英上台諮詢楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英不在那蔡玉瑜委員上台諮詢蔡玉瑜委員上台諮詢蔡玉瑜委員蔡玉瑜委員不在接下來有林郁君委員上台諮詢"},{"start":10071.718,"end":10073.499,"text":"謝謝主席有請次長委員好次長好教宗方濟各安息主懷之後教廷預計今天開始繼任的教宗的選舉會議據瞭解因為教宗的會議大部分都是高度的秘密的會議所以一般外界大部分都"},{"start":10098.577,"end":10119.187,"text":"不太可以有機會掌握整個事前的情節知道繼任的教宗是誰但是目前全世界的主流媒體已經整理出九位繼任的人選請次長看一下外交部目前有沒有預測可能會是哪一個人選是比較有可能成為下一任的教宗的繼任人選呢"},{"start":10120.135,"end":10148.086,"text":"報告委員沒有耶這個我們對於這個教宗的這個繼任人選不做任何的猜測我們重點在於第一個是說能夠繼續的傳達我國是一個那麼重視宗教自由的國家第二個我們也有相當顯著的天主教的這個信徒需要牧羊第三個是說我們跟教廷維持良好的關係那我們對於個別的一個人選那麼也沒有什麼猜測也沒有這個特別的這個"},{"start":10149.647,"end":10150.029,"text":"要去影響"},{"start":10151.309,"end":10175.642,"text":"因為畢竟教廷是我們台灣現在歐洲唯一的邦交國也是台灣現在僅存的邦交的12個國家之一但是因為有中國的因素所以未來繼任教宗會不會有轉變影響到教廷未來的兩岸政策進而影響到我們台灣和教廷的關係所以請次長一定要密切的注意這些千萬不要因為教宗換人到時候我們兩國的邦交又出了問題"},{"start":10179.724,"end":10182.868,"text":"還有本席是期許外交部可以風光的成為一個為台灣增加的邦交國的建交部千萬不要跟前部長吳釗燮一樣被共諜滲透讓外交部變成了斷交部那可以嗎當然"},{"start":10196.525,"end":10223.796,"text":"那我們現在在這個林部長的這個帶領之下那我們在三個面向上面繼續努力第一個是在於這個故邦、榮邦、拓邦第三個拓邦就是希望能夠開拓更多的我們的國際友人讓大家能夠認同台灣的一個民主自由的一個理念那我們在這上面也跟委員報告我們盡了所有的努力那我們希望那麼很快的能夠有好的消息但是"},{"start":10224.296,"end":10246.904,"text":"也請委員了解到說這是一個不是很容易的一個過程尤其是中國在全世界所有的可能的場合都打壓台灣我們的駐外的工作人員非常的辛苦也非常的努力但是我們會全面的加把勁希望能夠很早日帶給國人同胞好的消息"},{"start":10247.662,"end":10259.024,"text":"好 謝謝那在接下來請問次長我們現在的外交理念是不是已經從過去最被批評的金錢外交已經把它轉成了價值外交了呢"},{"start":10260.117,"end":10281.878,"text":"報告委員我們中華民國的外交一直不是用金錢為重心我們對於理念價值那麼尊重中華民國的自由民主我想這才是最重要的現在來說的話我們的這個部長林部長現在有三三條鏈第一個是說這個民主價值鏈第二個是所謂的這個第一島第一島"},{"start":10282.819,"end":10297.062,"text":"第一島鏈這個所謂的地緣政治上面的重要性第三個很重要的是我們的在整個全球的這個供應鏈上面的關鍵位置那我們透過這三條鏈三鏈能夠推動我們外交的工作"},{"start":10297.984,"end":10314.295,"text":"那我想請問一下就是說,在太平洋地區,現在仍然與台灣維持外交關係的國家有哪幾個國家?南泰有三個國家,帛琉、這個馬紹爾群島以及這個土瓦魯。那他們各維持了多少年呢?具體的來,我們請我們的亞太司的司長回答。"},{"start":10320.605,"end":10339.375,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個馬紹爾是進入26年那那個柏流是25年然後那個土華魯是46年所以本席相信我們的雙方其實都能建交維持到25年其實那麼多年的感情應該都是真心的吧是"},{"start":10341.038,"end":10359.768,"text":"所以我再請問次長我們台灣是不是也有屬於藍島語族的26也是屬於藍島語族的26個國家之一嘛對不對雖然我今天有看到今天的報告發現外交部的確做了不少的努力但還是希望外交部還是可以再做更多的交流還有互動因為來深化我們台灣跟藍島語族國家的文化上面的連結"},{"start":10366.172,"end":10383.503,"text":"是那就好像剛才那個包括昭緯包括其他的委員也提到我們想說外交部會跟原民會一起配合在整個經費上面在努力上面一起的這一個合作能夠這個透展我們的原民外交這也是我們的這個部長他的總和外交裡面重要的部分"},{"start":10384.25,"end":10386.731,"text":"因為去年2024年的時候舉辦的第53屆太平洋島國的論壇所以聽說它這裡面有包含澳洲和紐西蘭在內的國家都很肯定我們台灣的貢獻還有參與而且非常的支持我們台灣在PIF的參與的地位還有去年7月12號和9月10號本席在立法院有陪同韓院長分別接待了"},{"start":10408.643,"end":10409.744,"text":"那個馬紹爾群島共和國的國會的議長還有土瓦魯的議長對他們長期支持台灣在太平洋島國的論壇的國際參與甚至聯合國有些WHA等國際場合為我國來發聲我們都是"},{"start":10425.733,"end":10430.956,"text":"給予特別的感謝所以次長本席非常的希望以後外交部邀請外賓來訪時尤其是和我們台灣原住民語言相近的藍島語族的國家我們可以在國內參訪那時候同時除了接待他們享用我們台灣的美食之外"},{"start":10443.865,"end":10445.286,"text":"更有機會可以帶著這些外賓到花蓮台東觀光舉辦更多的交流活動因為這樣可以趁機做好的國際外交也因為這樣也可以在我們花東地區因為0403的地震過後的經濟重新振興還有帶動整個景氣"},{"start":10462.057,"end":10466.539,"text":"此外我也發現我們和這個蘭島語族的吐瓦魯國的雙方的情誼可能不限在此還有更緊密的關係因為吐瓦魯的主要的語言是吐瓦魯語但是好像跟我們台灣幾個原住民族像魯凱族、卑蘭族所用的母語有比較接近還有卑蘭族這些大部分都是在台東還有魯凱族有些有分布在台東的嘉蘭村還有卑蘭村、卑蘭鄉這樣這是本席住的花東的地區"},{"start":10491.232,"end":10498.914,"text":"我想也是我們召委黃人委員居住的地方和選區所以你知道去年的時候土瓦魯的和馬紹爾群島的議長來國會拜訪的時候他們非常的熱情的邀請我們院長他還有邀請我們台灣的立委能夠有機會可以去他們國家進行一些交流這樣所以我想說我們已經跟他們維持那麼多年的友邦是不是應該再積極交流更多的深化的關係呢是"},{"start":10520.74,"end":10522.562,"text":"那本席想要建議一下請外交部可以安排國會外交到土瓦魯還是馬紹爾群島還是這些藍島語族的國家進行國會外交否則每次都是對方非常熱情的來台結果我們自己的國會都無動於衷"},{"start":10535.572,"end":10538.293,"text":"這樣是非常沒有禮貌的啦其實有時候是要禮尚往來嘛不然我們會非常的失禮啦還是請我們的原住民委員黃仁昭委主動安排一下考察到那個國家去我們可以進行一些交流不論是文化方面"},{"start":10553.058,"end":10582.524,"text":"語言方面還是醫療交流方面畢竟我們台灣的醫療那麼先進其實也是有機會進行一些國會上面的交流看看他們國家是不是需要台灣進一步的協助還是合作的地方讓雙方的友情更加堅定不移畢竟我們台灣現在應該沒有任何斷交的本錢了所以可以沒有辦法再繼續有人跟我們斷交了所以我們也不能有這種邦交國有分手的意外所以我們也更需要在這方面做更大的努力"},{"start":10583.308,"end":10604.932,"text":"我們外交部主動規劃積極配合如果說大院決定是說要去這些我們南泰的友邦來訪視的話我們一定會全力的配合做好規劃那麼讓雙方的這個交流達到更加有意義然後也提升雙方的邦誼到更高的一個層次這我們絕對要一起來努力謝謝好 謝謝謝謝林醫師的委員質詢"},{"start":10612.845,"end":10620.51,"text":"現在蔡議員委員在現場,我們尋慮給三分鐘的諮詢我請蔡議員委員上台諮詢好,謝謝主席,因為來不及,剛剛有被跳號的來,我們是不是有請我們外交部我們次長,陳次長"},{"start":10645.122,"end":10660.163,"text":"市長請問市長你知道跟台灣跟中華民國好了跟中華民國最近的國家是哪一個國家距離最近物理的距離物理的距離最近"},{"start":10662.861,"end":10679.614,"text":"哪一個國家是離中華民國最近的國家跟台灣啊 跟台灣島跟台灣島日本日本對 它最南邊的 雲納古島跟台灣島啦 因為還有金門馬祖所以跟台灣島最近的就是日本是"},{"start":10680.254,"end":10696.05,"text":"日本與納國島跟台灣距離111公里這個與納國島過去在二戰前二戰前台灣跟日本就同一個日本日治時代所以二戰前台灣跟這個與納國島"},{"start":10701.516,"end":10716.089,"text":"通商很頻繁,人跟人的交流也很多所以雲澳國島現在有很多他們地方的棋老,是都會說台語的二戰後,一邊為中華民國,一邊就是變美軍託管的就是Okinawa,琉球群島這裡所以貿易就變遭殊,人的交流就叫做託度所以這兩個國家就拆開了"},{"start":10729.654,"end":10749.968,"text":"現在很多人都忘了離台灣這麼近的一個日本的領土日本都把與那國叫做他們最後的太陽最後的日落啦因為它是在日本的最西側所以這個次長你剛才都說你都知道那我想要請教次長就是說因為我從過去兩屆我都會問台灣跟與那國的執行"},{"start":10758.447,"end":10777.864,"text":"到底現在推動的怎樣?從游錫堃前院長發動的那一次WeSooOut到UNAGO的直航之後,那後續呢?後續現在到底推動的怎樣呢?那麼在直航我們的推動,我們最近新宇航空開了這個新的班機嘛"},{"start":10779.785,"end":10800.524,"text":"你意思是說海運的部分嗎不管是海運還是空運空運的部分我們跟這個西蘭諸島現在有開了一個新的一個它是到宮古島是啊宮古島是啊就是我比較遺憾因為都要到宮古島它現在就是直航都是兩個啦一個就是到石岩島就是宮古島另外一個就是到沖繩縣因為它整個雲納國也是他們的沖繩縣嘛"},{"start":10804.127,"end":10819.162,"text":"所以你就要先到食鹽島,先到這個Okinawa,再轉機回到與那國所以它這樣繞一圈,變得我們台灣到與那國之間的因為這樣的轉機的因素,誘因變得很少"},{"start":10820.143,"end":10843.12,"text":"我覺得這個好可惜喔因為曾經這一個島跟台灣就是這麼的親近那我們現在跟日本竟然有這樣的一個良好的互動去推動我們跟與那國的直航對於未來我們兩個國家的友誼的交易一定是更往上提升的啊尤其是像我剛才說的與那國那附近是所有潛水者最愛去的地方你知不知道與那國旁邊是什麼"},{"start":10847.637,"end":10853.059,"text":"那裡是過去有金字塔的地方,海底遺跡所有的潛水者一輩子的夢想就是去那裡潛水結果你就要飛到食鹽島轉機回來,那裡潛水開了就沒有了"},{"start":10871.855,"end":10891.02,"text":"動機就少很多所以我是覺得說外交部我們努力這一塊所以這個如果推動成功台日關係更加提升而且對於整體的這個這個不管是希望透過平民的外交的方式都是很好好不好努力一下啦我們遵照辦理我講很久了我講很久了打拚一下是好 謝謝"},{"start":10894.975,"end":10907.754,"text":"謝謝蔡英宇委員質詢以登記執行的委員處不在場軍外發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有林倩琦委員吳麗華委員"},{"start":10909.858,"end":10929.857,"text":"提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢的為其答覆部分會要補充資料者請相關單位以書面以兩周內答覆委員另約訂期限者從期所定本會會議到此結束 散會"},{"start":10941.188,"end":10947.581,"text":"剪刀 剪刀剪"},{"start":10955.509,"end":10955.729,"text":"關一下"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}