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請一下林部長來 林部長請 謝謝"},{"start":16.049,"end":33.208,"text":"部長好完善社群平台的防詐措施保障人民的財產安全是我們共同的基本責任是那依照詐欺犯罪危害防治條例第三節就是數位經濟的防詐措施在"},{"start":34.609,"end":47.626,"text":"數位經濟的防詐措施裡面蘇發布是扮演重要的角色那當然要落實這種平台的防詐平台的落地跟平台的納管是一個重要的一個"},{"start":48.77,"end":76.903,"text":"我們目前對於平台落地跟平台落管蘇華部所掌握的狀況以及處置的情形來簡單說明一下目前就是像我們已經納管的基本上有四家公司 七個平台這四家公司分別是Meta Google Line以及TikTok它這個平台包含Thread Facebook"},{"start":77.443,"end":88.361,"text":"还有META基本上这个都已经在台湾都已经有设立法律代表了这是我们目前办理的状况"},{"start":89.293,"end":118.802,"text":"那相关的业者如果依照诈欺犯罪危害防治条例相关的业者他们也有相关的责任那这些相关的责任是什么目前执行的状况呢主要在法律上的责任他们必须实施广告实名制然后再来就是我们发现有涉及诈欺的广告或者讯息的时候我们通知他们他们必须在24小时之内下架如果他们没有确实执行的话我们就会对他们进行处罚部长目前当然法律已经有基本的规范了"},{"start":119.462,"end":140.141,"text":"平台有防诈的责任包括风险的分析评估广告的验证最重要的就是下架诈骗的资讯以及提供相关的资料部长说明一下目前各社群平台他这种诈骗讯息下架的状况是如何来说明一下"},{"start":140.421,"end":155.058,"text":"OK 我們現在就是透過電子化自動化的方式通知這些平台那我們在打炸專法剛實施的時候他們下架的速度都還比較慢一點但是目前的狀況是說我們通知Facebook如果是設炸的廣告"},{"start":156.559,"end":178.386,"text":"目前都在四個平均在四個小時之內我們通知他有四個小時之內就會下架這是平均數那另外就是非廣告是一般的訊息的話是在八個小時左右平均八個小時左右他會把它下架那我們是希望他們持續改善因為這個都是做自動化的處理只是說他們在這個"},{"start":180.226,"end":206.204,"text":"非廣告而是那個個人訊息方面他們會做人工的最後查驗那這個部分會稍微比較慢一點所以他需要8個小時這都是基本的規範但實際執行的狀況是不好的如果說目前我們看警政署的統計這種詐騙的訊息還是非常猖獗如果以Meta來講Meta的詐騙廣告其實是非常的嚴重那也顯示Meta的這種廣告的"},{"start":207.285,"end":221.081,"text":"服務管理系統它是有嚴重的缺失那數位部如何去要求Meta呢各位委員報告我們網站通報查詢網自從去年9月14到現在以來我們已經通知Meta下架了超過24萬則廣告"},{"start":223.204,"end":237.184,"text":"還有那個訊息那這24萬則的廣告或者訊息我們就交給MetaMeta就回去訓練他們的AI模型告訴他們的AI模型說台灣的詐騙大概是長什麼樣子然後利用這種機制那個Meta現在已經"},{"start":237.865,"end":265.465,"text":"下架了針對台灣780萬則的詐騙廣告或訊息所以其實依照我們的統計我們的那個巡查報告以及民眾的感覺我們現在我想現在應該很少看到有仿冒謝金河或者是仿冒黃仁勳的這種那個名人那個仿冒詐騙已經在Facebook上已經大幅下降了部長我要提醒你目前這種下架的速度是趕不上詐騙的速度"},{"start":266.482,"end":280.744,"text":"那罰款過低是否是有收到效果嗎是沒有效果嗎那如果我們看警政署的資料來看今年1月到9月下架7萬多則網路平台詐騙的廣告"},{"start":282.446,"end":305.268,"text":"但是依據蘇發部的網路通報詐騙平台每個月就有兩萬三千多則的詐騙訊息有一萬多則的高風險的訊息那問題的根源並不是平台業者沒有進到這些相關防詐條例的規定沒有做到網路廣告平台"},{"start":306.688,"end":329.009,"text":"這種防詐的義務那相關的罰款是不是過低 來說明一下OK 跟委員報告目前我們開罰的部分我們是對於Meta已經開罰1850萬台幣那我們這個開罰的目的並不是為了報復最重要我們是希望它改變行為的模式就如同我剛才跟委員報告的他們已經利用AI的方式"},{"start":329.609,"end":352.239,"text":"主動攔阻780萬則涉及詐騙的訊息這些詐騙訊息不是說上架以後再放下來很多都是在上架之前Meta就利用AI的方式部長我再一次提醒你你現在這種金額雖然創下財閥的一個新高但是跟平台的廣告收益來相比"},{"start":353.602,"end":371.233,"text":"還是不成比例如果說我們按照歐盟的數位服務法就是DSA它是以全球營收的百分比作為罰款的一個上限那書法部應該來作為一個參考來研議修法的可能性來說明一下"},{"start":371.753,"end":389.352,"text":"是跟委員報告歐盟他是因為他用他這個營收的百分比來裁罰這個在歐盟跟美國之間產生了非常大的貿易紛爭我們也知道說現在美國對各國祭出所謂的"},{"start":392.495,"end":416.311,"text":"那個關稅那這個事情事實上是相當有爭議的因為照理說我們財閥應該是針對你犯了什麼錯跟你財閥什麼事情而不是針對對你說你的營業額是多少我抽一個百分之多少的一個財閥這個基本上是一種數位稅美國政府認為是一種數位稅我們不是完全贊同美國的方法如果以全球營收的這種百分比來它具有一個"},{"start":417.471,"end":437.857,"text":"爭議的一個空間但是目前的罰款過低也是一個不爭的事實如果跟他的廣告收入來相比的話是差距太大了是 這個我們也都完全了解那如同我剛才跟委員所報告我們最重要的目的是希望META改變他的行為那那個之前我想委員一定講的就是說"},{"start":438.397,"end":465.304,"text":"之前有一個新聞說那個Meta他有很大的10%的收入廣告收入是來自於詐騙集團這個事實上就是一年多以前Meta他自己內部的分析報告他們的檢討報告那我們知道這個事情以後我們也非常認為說非常的不合理所以我們就要求Meta一定改變他的行為他們以前認為說在打詐這件事情上他們只是一個旁觀者他只是一個bystander我們現在要求他加入我們加入我們這個好人隊一起做打詐的行為"},{"start":466.224,"end":486.231,"text":"部長目前詐騙集團是大量的利用第三方支付的平台申請虛擬帳號來進行相關的洗錢速發部當然有推動第三方支付能量的這種登錄的機制但是第三方支付仍然是詐騙跟洗錢的一個溫床"},{"start":488.032,"end":504.971,"text":"相關的蘇華部有什麼更具體的措施嗎在第一個就是說第三方支付原來台灣是採取登記制你只要登記就可以做這件事情那總共有一萬多家的廠商登記那我們自從實施這個能量登錄以後事實上真正"},{"start":505.832,"end":528.355,"text":"申請能量登錄的大概有80幾家然後通過的目前有53家然後我們在今年廢止了4家又新增了4家那廢止了4家就是我們去做實地查核以後我們發覺說他這個營業是有問題的他可能是涉及第三方支付的那個洗錢不然我還是要提醒你詐騙集團利用第三方支付來這種作為一個工具"},{"start":528.895,"end":542.433,"text":"他進行這種代收轉付導致這種金流的追蹤是極度的困難那財法跟納管的強度還是有待提升我們看目前多數的財法法"},{"start":543.929,"end":560.989,"text":"目前多数的财法都是依据洗钱防治法那其实它的花款只有15万至30万之间那对于动辄金手这种术艺金流的这种业者来说是不够相关的"},{"start":561.97,"end":574.921,"text":"鄭哲利 這個是必須要檢討的最後讓你說明是 我們事實上速發部這邊速產署非常的主動我們今年就是主動發現透過能量登錄我們主動發現像說台灣里"},{"start":578.266,"end":603.085,"text":"可不可以說明一下 我們請副署長說明一下好 是 委員我們針對這個第三方支付的部分我們其實是百分之百的去做行政查核那一旦我們在發現它的狀況有問題的時候我們就會提供情資給我們的相關的檢調單位跟法務部所以因為這樣其實我們這一次的台灣禮的破獲其實事實上是跟法務部一起共同來破獲這樣子的一個集團"},{"start":604.306,"end":626.302,"text":"部長最後我提醒你相關的數位經濟的防詐措施數位部有基本的對策跟做法但成效還是不髒有基本的規範這個要繼續努力啦我們會努力啦但是不至於成效不髒啦我們剛才那個報告也看到其實我們最近應該是做出一些成績出來了成效不髒這不是我在交通委員會的質詢"},{"start":627.717,"end":655.176,"text":"這是全民對於政府對於打詐的努力雖然有看到努力但是成效還是要繼續我們會努力我們絕對會努力但是也給我們的同仁一些鼓勵吧我想我們這個下架了這麼多的那個詐騙訊息然後我們就是因為這個詐騙有線上線下鼓勵要有督促也要有當然對於防詐是我們的一個基本責任保障人民的財產安全也是我們重要的責任當然謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}