{"error":false,"id":["166629"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166629,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166629","日期":"2025-12-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-26,19,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[26,19,15],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會","經濟委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-24T10:13:01+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-24T10:25:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8b793423fad44d60bc608ab7d7d38c598f4e93bf07b6087f91760b03f9a190b7faaab92e9403bad85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"10:13:01 - 10:25:07","會議時間":"2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員王美惠等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員劉建國等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第三條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員盧縣一等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第三條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員邱志偉等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員馬文君等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員游顥等26人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十六、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條、第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員陳超明等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員何欣純等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員郭國文等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、委員陳瑩等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員陳秀寳等23人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員邱若華等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員陳俊宇等35人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、委員林俊憲等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案...等39案\n(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)。\n【第三十八案，如經院會復議，則不予審查；第三十九案，如未經院會交付本聯席會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":8.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.379718750000002,"end":10.054718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.35846875,"end":12.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.032843750000001,"end":18.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.30221875,"end":19.977218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.16284375,"end":20.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.85471875,"end":23.79096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.976593750000003,"end":28.54971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":31.469093750000003,"end":32.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.51534375,"end":42.40409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":42.72471875,"end":43.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.159093750000004,"end":61.422218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.860968750000005,"end":81.28409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":81.30096875000001,"end":100.31909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.02784375,"end":119.42159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":119.59034375,"end":120.72096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.85596875,"end":122.13846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.69534375,"end":127.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.05721875,"end":132.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.22534375,"end":143.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.26159375,"end":152.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.45846875,"end":155.19659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.52159375000002,"end":158.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.31846875000002,"end":164.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.37221875,"end":168.35909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":167.65034375000002,"end":169.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.28721875000002,"end":182.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.97284375,"end":185.43659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.75721875000002,"end":186.38159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":186.33096875,"end":187.37721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.80346875,"end":194.29596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":194.29596875000001,"end":195.27471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.98784375000002,"end":201.95721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":196.33784375000002,"end":197.92409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":201.95721875,"end":203.13846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.44659375,"end":209.75346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":208.45409375000003,"end":224.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":224.60346875000002,"end":226.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":227.28659375,"end":232.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.46784375000001,"end":230.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.61096875,"end":231.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.02846875,"end":253.57784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.34034375000002,"end":234.64409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":252.63284375,"end":255.23159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.57346875000002,"end":273.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.91221875,"end":274.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.34659375,"end":300.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":300.62534375,"end":309.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":310.29471875,"end":314.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":315.88034375,"end":326.86596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":327.54096875000005,"end":330.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":331.86096875000004,"end":332.95784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.88596875,"end":336.99096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.37909375000004,"end":347.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.72346875,"end":348.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.39846875,"end":358.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.65846875,"end":362.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.62409375000004,"end":364.024718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大家都很積極所以就理性討論好 謝謝接下來請張志倫委員來做詢問農業部有很多出席的官員都沒有寫在裡面等一下補充一下給你們補充介紹不然你來這邊就坐得有點渺茫來"},{"start":33.183,"end":35.104,"text":"謝謝主席 各位委員各位官員好有請農業部陳部長以及原住民組委員會洪副處長"},{"start":44.295,"end":60.352,"text":"來 我也好好 謝謝部長那首先今天這個是我們這個未還跟內政委員會等等的聯席所以今天本席特別到現場針對老農的相關的津貼就由部長來就請教那我想要先請這個"},{"start":61.954,"end":79.844,"text":"原住民組委員會的代表就是你們先可不可以講一下說根據這次的修法針對50那個原住民從55歲起請領津貼其實你們今天在報告裡面寫到特別有寫到因為原住民的平均壽命比全體國民大概少了7.54"},{"start":82.246,"end":100.056,"text":"稅這是一個殘酷的科學的現實所以代表原住民原住民的農民在身體上能領取津貼的時間比一般農民少了7年之多這是你們今天在報告裡面明確去寫的可是你們今天的報告被這個農業部打臉他說可是雖然你們講的很對啊可是"},{"start":102.17,"end":127.244,"text":"這個農業部的報告裡面寫說老農今天屬於職業屬性不應該針對特定族群有特別規範那也違反你們今天裡面報告裡面寫的這個原住民基本法的部分應該對原住民族的這個社會福利事項應該要積極的辦理補助所以這邊是不是先請這個原住民委員會的處長你要堅定你的想法是不是可以請你表達幾句"},{"start":129.167,"end":152.013,"text":"是謝謝委員那根據我們就是委託那個國家衛生研究院的那個研究最近113年的報告的確就是原住民的那個平均餘命的部分跟非原住民的朋友們大概是相差7.54歲那這個部分的話就在因為"},{"start":153.693,"end":170.902,"text":"不要緊張 不要緊張幫忙原住民朋友講出來就本位的立場來看就是因為這個有關於老農的那個政策的一個規劃雖然是原住民老農也是很重要對 雖然是農業部在規劃但是這是一種集體權的一種保障"},{"start":177.586,"end":193.207,"text":"那我的意思也就是說如果說假設對於那個老農經貼的那個那個年紀年齡對年齡的如果是放在65歲的話那也就表示說其實大部分的針對這個"},{"start":194.349,"end":222.288,"text":"原住民對老農的今天的政策規劃原住民農民是領不到的嗎對原住民的農民是沒有辦法領到的好謝謝再基於就是我們的委託研究的部分我們還是認為說可以支持好謝謝洪處長好那洪處長謝謝那請部長部長你有沒有聽到這個原住民族委員會的心聲是不是請你你是不是你這個報告裡面就是用一句話就寫說就把這個把他們的這個"},{"start":224.849,"end":250.154,"text":"修法把他給整個給這個不同意啊我跟委員報告是不是你們可以想個比較好的方式來解決我先跟委員提供一個數據剛才原民會這邊提到的是一個全體原住民的年齡嘛平均的年齡嘛那我們是針對有清零老農津貼的這些原住民他的平均餘命是82.7比全國的零老農津貼的還高"},{"start":250.894,"end":274.518,"text":"所以他從事農業的這一群什麼數字從事農業的這一群原住民退休的平均餘命是82.7歲比全國的這些人齡80.8歲還高所以我們老農津貼關心的是從事農業的這一群原住民他的年齡不會比較低"},{"start":275.69,"end":299.938,"text":"不會比全國的低反而比全國的還高所以我們是從這個角度去建議說還是維持65歲那我不是說原委會的資料是錯的他是用全部的原住民不管你是從事任何行業的所以這兩個基準不一樣可是以農業部來講我們處理的是老農津貼所以我們會看零老農津貼的餘命是多少是82.7歲比一般的還高"},{"start":300.66,"end":329.569,"text":"可是我要跟部長講你這樣你這個數字是剛剛你提出來的那我覺得你這樣提出來的話如果就像你的數字來講是正確那當然我覺得大家是可以討論不過你在裡面就是直接就是裡面就是強調說就是不能因為不同族群有特別規範你直接這句話去回覆我認為是不太恰當的就像你剛才解釋如果是真的數字的話其實我相信不曉得原住民族委員會的代表能不能認同你認同嗎"},{"start":331.877,"end":356.668,"text":"你要不要再解釋一下是 我們是認為說就是因為我相信剛剛部長的那個數據應該是是依照他們去調查的數據那就我們這邊的立場我們是認為說就像剛剛我所講的這個部分是一個集體政策的一個規劃所以我認為說既然我們在我們通過"},{"start":358.789,"end":378.754,"text":"委託國家衛生研究院的那個報告是這樣出來的話我們還是認為就是你整個政策居然是要造福所有的那個那個這個族群的話應該就要讓他有接受到這個政府政策的那個規劃的可能性那我們自己也也有稍微去也是依據農業部這邊的資料那其實"},{"start":382.935,"end":410.785,"text":"原住民55歲以上未滿65歲的頭保的農保人數在7500多人那從110年的時候是8000多人那到111年的時候是7500多人所以其實人數都是在大概是呈現500到600之間的那個削減所以我認為說如果說假設要照顧這個呃農民的老年的生活的話我認為"},{"start":413.168,"end":430.402,"text":"應該還是能夠我們還是建議可以張照55歲比照國民年金給付的方式去去做那個農民的給付但是這個部分的話我也跟委員報告我們很希望就是說可以降低原住民勤領津貼的那個年紀不過我們也"},{"start":434.693,"end":452.148,"text":"也尊重這次農業部對整個農民生活的一個政策的規劃好 謝謝副處長有請部長那就是說這件事情就是說因為剛剛我們副處長有特別講其實原住民依照勞基法"},{"start":452.728,"end":466.544,"text":"他的這個原住民給付的年齡也是調整到55歲所以這未來再好好檢討一下多跟其他部會大家多溝通聽聽其他部會的聲音那另外一個其他我要跟你請教就是今天最大家最討論最多的這個"},{"start":468.755,"end":487.015,"text":"導入今天的戰刑條例這次的修法是第二條 第四條跟第七條重點在第四條就是有關於年金給付的金額到底是多少就本席所了解你們8月7號已經將戰刑條例的修正案送給行政院"},{"start":487.535,"end":515.527,"text":"現在已經過了四個多月為什麼行政院的版本到底在哪裡我們有懷疑這像是不是牛布化的行政效率既然你想要調整那為什麼現在政府行政院為什麼都沒有提出版本那這樣到底有沒有我們感受到好像照顧農民的那個心不是是不是就是口號那我想要請教說現在的草案的問題到底是卡在哪裡那你們是不是可以簡單來跟大家講一下"},{"start":516.788,"end":531.48,"text":"我跟委員報告就是從部的角度來講我們可以針對農業的相關的這些法律案或是相關的政策我們可以做一個很好的規劃送到行政院的時候那基本上行政院考慮的不只是這個法"},{"start":532.461,"end":561.346,"text":"他會考慮到跟這個法有關的其他的社福基金的一個橫平性跟一致性所以在這個過程中也考慮到我們的物價指數也逐漸的提高了也考慮到排富的這些土地公告協定來變動所以我們也是在行政院不是等待審查是在討論非常多次的過程中不斷的去精進我們的版本所以我們這一次剛才報告的過程中其實也大致上符合委員的版本"},{"start":562.006,"end":585.525,"text":"就是額度是朝提高的方向我們有適當的排富這個東西都已經符合委員的期待只是那個額度到底要多少這個就是到時候我們再來看怎麼樣的去討論找到一個平衡點我先有看到你們農業部有一個有針對各委員提高的版本你們有做一個統整表那請問一下部長你有沒有哪一個版本你是看起來覺得你比較能認同的"},{"start":586.366,"end":610.858,"text":"我剛才說的齁這個還是要去尊重委員的版本齁那我只針對這個現在這裡面的部分齁那我剛才說的我把這裡面的經費 你本身的意見咧我的經驗就是要看我們的財政的負擔我們要看財政的負擔那現在有很多版哪一個金額是你比較認同我們的金額會落在這裡面就是說你八千到一萬二都考慮只是說都考慮"},{"start":611.843,"end":627.599,"text":"我們都有考慮都有試算那我們我們最後的建議版會落在這個之間就會在這之間對好因為很抱歉了因為行政並沒有核定我沒辦法所以意思就是說這四版那我在講今天呃所以這四個版本你認為"},{"start":628.925,"end":655.751,"text":"都不會 未來只要發布三讀通過都可以實行就對了你的意思是這樣子嗎對 我剛才一個強調就是說因為我們行政院在設計經費的時候一定考慮到我們的財政的一個負擔嘛所以在這個財政的負擔我才會有一個分析表就是從那個九千塊一直到一萬五的財政負擔所以政府都是有能力負擔的不管是九千塊到一萬二你們都有討論過我們提出來的是我們覺得"},{"start":658.312,"end":678.673,"text":"你剛剛是說部長不是說你的版本你所有版本都能接受落在這個之間包含嗎包含12000到8000我說落在這個之間不代表就是這個之間都可以這兩個不同的意思喔那你你不回答到底你的想法是什麼你回答一個很廣泛的就是落在這個之間"},{"start":683.21,"end":702.169,"text":"這個聽不太懂啦那最後就要跟這個部長拜託為什麼有這麼多不同的版本剛剛張家俊委員也說有一萬二的版本其實就是考慮到老農他的生活的等等相關的負擔而且以及我們大家最常講的就是這個這個有關於這個他們的一般的這個"},{"start":705.63,"end":726.298,"text":"這個生活的基本生活費等等的都是他們在參考的一個重點所以還是要拜託部長在這邊的時候盡量可以針對接近他們的基本生活費就像剛剛張家俊委員講的不然他們生活其實是相對來講比較辛苦在這拜託部長幫忙 謝謝好 謝謝張委員那委員會在這邊公告"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}