{"error":false,"id":["166631"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166631,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166631","日期":"2025-12-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-26,19,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[26,19,15],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會","經濟委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-24T10:36:39+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-24T10:45:27+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8b793423fad44d60ce25b6138c6b18098f4e93bf07b6087f91760b03f9a190b7faaab92e9403bad85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:36:39 - 10:45:27","會議時間":"2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員王美惠等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員劉建國等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第三條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員盧縣一等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第三條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員邱志偉等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員馬文君等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員游顥等26人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十六、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條、第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員陳超明等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員何欣純等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員郭國文等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、委員陳瑩等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員陳秀寳等23人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員邱若華等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員陳俊宇等35人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、委員林俊憲等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案...等39案\n(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)。\n【第三十八案，如經院會復議，則不予審查；第三十九案，如未經院會交付本聯席會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.32971875,"end":6.8990937500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.08471875,"end":7.759718750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.125968750000002,"end":13.58159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.93596875,"end":14.374718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.087843750000001,"end":90.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.98721875000001,"end":115.79346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.87534375000001,"end":105.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.09784375000001,"end":114.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.05096875000001,"end":116.13096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.13096875000001,"end":124.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.47659375,"end":118.81409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.10909375000001,"end":121.54784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.46721875,"end":141.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.13971875000001,"end":158.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.72971875000002,"end":147.02909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.94784375,"end":154.30221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.65596875,"end":158.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.41534375,"end":169.67534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.99596875,"end":172.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.13471875000002,"end":186.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.36034375,"end":188.13659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.82846875,"end":190.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.42721875,"end":203.49284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.71221875,"end":204.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.91034375,"end":233.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.59784375,"end":247.24971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.76221875000002,"end":235.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.39471875,"end":237.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":238.39034375000003,"end":238.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.67596875,"end":262.60596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.63534375,"end":271.75221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.79034375000003,"end":280.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.08034375,"end":278.35034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.89846875,"end":288.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.36596875000004,"end":286.43346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.04909375,"end":290.34846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.34846875,"end":293.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.26784375,"end":293.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.28471875,"end":293.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.62221875,"end":296.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.54596875000004,"end":300.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.00534375,"end":300.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.97971875,"end":305.45159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.79346875000005,"end":308.94471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.14721875000004,"end":310.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.49721875,"end":313.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.20596875,"end":312.74159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.51784375,"end":315.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.81284375,"end":319.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.72409375,"end":317.26409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.49159375,"end":321.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.61784375,"end":324.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.82846875,"end":325.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.36409375,"end":331.23659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.15659375,"end":342.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.99846875000003,"end":343.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.01534375,"end":361.67909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.53846875000005,"end":344.85471875},{"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請陳部長來 請部長部長 老農今天行之有年尤其是高齡的農民退休之後的基本生活就是我們要來對他們做了一些保障所以跟農民的退休儲金這個制度我們雙雙都希望完善了農民的福利最重要的這個措施"},{"start":31.056,"end":59.367,"text":"但是隨著物價的攀升還有現行的農民的這個津貼的給付這個相關的金額的規定我們今天才會特別來排審這個老農津貼希望能夠符合他們生活上的需要那但是現在社會上很質疑的就是因為物價的高漲而我們的暫行條例這邊一直都沒有調漲所以希望我們能夠尊重我們的農民對他們做最好的照料那尤其是這個老農津貼在2012年的"},{"start":60.828,"end":89.867,"text":"七千元一直到現在的八千一百一十元我們是有調整但是不符合現在的這個通貨膨脹的嚴重跟物價上漲的情形所以我們希望能夠符合他們生活需要的一個重要非常沉重的一個負擔所以今天也請教部長在這個八千一百一十元這個一次要拉高到現在很多委員的版本那本席的提案是一萬元那有可能在至少一萬元以上嗎"},{"start":91.021,"end":114.394,"text":"我剛才說了基本上農業部是支持這樣子額度的調高因為他的基數過往的基數比較低了一點但是調高的過程中我們在試算我們每增加一千塊所需要的經費這是第一個第二個就是說這個增幅的比例也是要能夠跟其他的八大政府基金物價指數成長率作為依據"},{"start":116.215,"end":140.797,"text":"沒有 物價指數一定會動只是再把這個額度的基數再把它拉高那這個部分我想我們方向是一致的是 部長所以講到這基數的拉高跟物價指數可以做調整的話我們也必須要有依據那尤其是我們的調整有設限在四年一次這個調整的這個週期可不可以改成兩年一次或者是一年一次的週期呢"},{"start":141.297,"end":157.406,"text":"我想我們支持有一個期中檢討就大概是兩年來檢討一次檢討有一個標準就是他的CPI如果大達某一個百分比就觸動這個調整那我們現在初步的一個想法就是3%到5%"},{"start":159.462,"end":183.218,"text":"好那這樣很好那可是這調整中我們也要注意到一件事情剛剛也都提到排富條款有它的門檻就是農業以外他們的收入超過50萬的話還有第二個就是說除了他們的房子跟土地這個扣掉我們的農地或者是說他們的農舍以外超過500萬的話都會喪失了這個老農津貼是不是"},{"start":187.421,"end":204.367,"text":"那現在又因為土地會增值啊這個14年沒有改的這個門檻土地增值剛剛講的被排除在外的有一萬四一萬二這些人就是這樣子的喪失所以我們制度要與時俱進的做調整部長說是不是"},{"start":205.223,"end":233.446,"text":"絕對同意就是我們也是朝這個方向就是土地公告限制這麼多年來從102年到現在一直都沒有調那沒有調的話我們希望說它可以根據土地公告限制一步到位的把它調調到符合現在的一個基準那第二個部分就是我們的所得雖然說所得是跟CPI比較有關但是我們所得也沒有跟著當初跟著額度一起調我們一直都不動所以這一次的排富我們不只是在所得上面我們會拉高"},{"start":233.666,"end":261.869,"text":"所有的配套都要配進去不要單一這樣調整這樣子不合公平尤其現在的生活經濟的狀況跟我們的整個通膨物價高漲的情形通通要把計算進去所以我也跟委員報告其實委員提了39個版本我們都非常認真的去分析然後我們也設計了一個這樣的一個方案所以今天在這個報告其實我已經蠻正面的回應了那因為行政院現在還沒有通過院會"},{"start":263.68,"end":280.328,"text":"不適當馬上講我們的數值不過我想盡快的我希望能夠爭取行政院下個禮拜可是部長我們送進行政院已經四個月了那你也特別說到你有跟行政院做專案報告那專案報告到現在為什麼沒送出來"},{"start":280.948,"end":308.787,"text":"是什么原因我跟委员报告我跟包括院长包括政委那边报告版本是一次比一次好所以他为什么还不送出来一次比一次好那我们看看会不会更好更好那你不能一次到位的提出来我才会说我期待期待什么时候出来你一定会出来我想因为愿贵不是我决定的但是我会跟行政院争取看看你报告几次了看看你一次一次比一次好你报告几次了"},{"start":309.187,"end":325.278,"text":"我至少報告三次以上三次了所以行政院版本應該要出來了嘛然後我現在已經定案了就要進到院會所以應該是年底就會進來我是期待我會再跟行政院爭取已經定案就應該出來了嘛"},{"start":325.418,"end":342.452,"text":"沒有 行政院因為行政院院會排的案子很多嘛我們希望說排進行政院院會的包括因為行政院是希望說跟其他八項社會福利的這個一起做調整才一起進來嘛但是我們希望把這個農民的老農津貼這部分先行進來好不好"},{"start":343.512,"end":366.26,"text":"我想院長也有曾經這樣的一個想法啦就是說農民的經驗也許可以先行啦但是考慮的時候一定要同步考慮到其他的八大社會基金啦但是在同步考慮的情況之下那老農經驗是不是可以先行一直等到越等越久啦你都報告三次了也要尊重我們部長好不好"},{"start":367.76,"end":390.357,"text":"我們一直努力的讓這個案子能夠讓我們的老農做得很好那你們還沒修 已經定案了但是我們本期還是要提一下因為老農他們彎著腰守著土地在耕作從年輕到老我們他的生活 高齡的老農的生活我們要給他一個有尊嚴的耕好好的照料跟保障"},{"start":390.797,"end":414.337,"text":"那但是現在如果我們依一般的物價指數的這個成長率的話現在物價指數的成長率有分一般性的跟高齡的為什麼說高齡的因為年紀比較大的他們的食物啊醫療上他們的負擔會比較重比較大對不對所以可不可以依照高齡的部分來對我們的高齡老農的津貼的部分來做調整我以這個為依據"},{"start":415.878,"end":424.667,"text":"我跟委員報告你用這樣的方式又會把很多的指數搞亂那以老農我也在那個座談會我也聽到因為農民在從事"},{"start":427.905,"end":455.614,"text":"從事農業的時候他的所有的消費是不大一樣的跟一般的不大一樣的所以也有人認為說應該去調查農民農村的一個所得消費的一個形態那樣子可能會造成不同的版本所以我們目前還是依據就是主計處這邊的一個一般的這個CPI的方式來調整所以本系提供給你這個標準跟一般的消費跟高齡的這個家庭的消費是不一樣的指數"},{"start":456.675,"end":469.498,"text":"這個表格都看得到對而且你要調查農村的消費是不一樣的本期提醒你是他們的食物跟醫療不一樣是跟他們生活是不同的是不是"},{"start":472.392,"end":486.464,"text":"我講國營那個我覺得因為65歲以上那65歲以上真正的還能夠就是非常健壯的在田裡工作的人其實還不少那相對的可能他在八十幾歲七十幾歲"},{"start":487.905,"end":508.982,"text":"我可以發現說參加農保的人他的平均餘命其實比一般的還高一些所以不同的年齡層又不一樣了那就很難切啦所以還是請委員支持我們現在先用一般的CPI那如果說我們後續的這些其他的CPI的依據如果更精準的時候我們再來討論"},{"start":509.842,"end":522.629,"text":"我們希望我們的修法能夠更完善每個層級每個狀況都要考慮進去這樣的配套修出來法才會讓大家都能夠覺得對他們有能夠幫助好不好最重要保障我們農民的生活謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}