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10:51:51","會議時間":"2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、國家發展委員會副主任委員、內政部次長、外交部次長、國防部副部長、教育部次長、法務部次長、經濟部次長、交通部次長、勞動部次長、農業部次長、衛生福利部次長、運動部次長、環境部次長、文化部次長、數位發展部次長、僑務委員會副委員長、國家科學及技術委員會副主任委員、海洋委員會副主任委員、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會副主任委員、人事行政總處副人事長、國立故宮博物院副院長、原住民族委員會副主任委員、客家委員會副主任委員、中央選舉委員會副主任委員、核能安全委員會副主任委員、公平交易委員會副主任委員、國家通訊傳播委員會副主任委員、大陸委員會副主任委員、公共工程委員會副主任委員就「115年度中央政府總預算案至今尚未審查，近3,000億元之新興、新增計畫將無法推動，對國家整體發展之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":0.03096875,"end":5.042843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.7009687499999995,"end":9.177218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":11.77596875,"end":15.640343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15.809093750000002,"end":18.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":20.80409375,"end":22.47471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.082218750000003,"end":29.76471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.06846875,"end":30.827843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31.13159375,"end":35.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":36.49784375,"end":41.087843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.45909375,"end":43.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":44.040968750000005,"end":51.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.28034375,"end":61.523468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":60.696593750000005,"end":62.04659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.557218750000004,"end":66.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":64.47659375,"end":65.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":67.02471875,"end":71.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.43784375,"end":71.00721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.02409375,"end":72.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":72.88034375000001,"end":74.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":74.97284375000001,"end":76.42409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.85409375,"end":79.63034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":82.51596875,"end":83.19096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":83.19096875000001,"end":90.80159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":84.15284375,"end":84.23721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":90.83534375,"end":93.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":93.85596875,"end":113.04284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.04846875000001,"end":105.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":113.09346875000001,"end":117.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":118.02096875000001,"end":126.47534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":126.54284375,"end":130.99784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":131.30159375,"end":144.88596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":145.17284375,"end":148.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":149.35784375,"end":155.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":155.61846875,"end":174.19784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":174.60284375,"end":177.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":178.31534375,"end":178.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":179.31096875,"end":193.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":193.50284375,"end":215.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":216.21659375000002,"end":230.08784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":230.83034375000003,"end":232.93971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":233.61471875,"end":242.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":239.11596875,"end":239.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":241.10721875000002,"end":243.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":242.59221875000003,"end":242.60909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":242.89596875,"end":243.28409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":243.48659375000003,"end":249.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":249.30846875,"end":259.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":260.46284375,"end":268.03971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":268.69784375,"end":273.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":274.26659375,"end":275.26221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":275.71784375000004,"end":279.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":280.32471875000005,"end":286.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":287.04096875,"end":291.17534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":291.17534375,"end":297.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":297.89159375,"end":299.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":301.60409375,"end":311.32409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":312.30284375,"end":394.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.13909375000003,"end":389.06721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":395.63159375000004,"end":396.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":397.69034375,"end":398.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.96034375000005,"end":400.42409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.58784375000005,"end":405.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":405.62159375000005,"end":417.53534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":417.63659375000003,"end":421.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":421.92284375,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主席長我請教你啦這個立法院以三讀通過且公佈的法律案還有預算提案是否屬於必須編列的預算"},{"start":93.999,"end":115.209,"text":"是我們原則上是希望盡量來編列但是因為他本身他以那個財政紀律法有違他必須要先籌措裁員相關的裁員那第二個所以我們對於他執行的一個部分有滋生疑義所以我們申請釋憲所以這個部分我們以後就是等釋憲的一個結果我們來釋憲請醒來編列"},{"start":120.296,"end":127.488,"text":"其實立法院三讀通過的軍人待遇條例警察人員人事條例這些修正案在114年4月25號就已經總統公佈"},{"start":131.468,"end":152.799,"text":"也就是說這相關的法律已正式公佈生效對於已經正式公佈生效的法律行政院主計總處在預算編列算你還有選擇執行的權利嗎這是你的義務喔你可以選擇執行嗎對於立法院三讀通過的法律你可以違背這樣的一個憲政的義務嗎"},{"start":155.657,"end":176.714,"text":"我們還是一樣遵從院的一個指示那整個一個他對於整個的一個公務和包括所謂的各種公務人員的一個整個一個體制是破壞的所以這個部分呢在人種部分他會做整體的一個考量這個部分我們就會來遵循以上那個署長你的說法根本是違憲"},{"start":179.386,"end":199.419,"text":"你這樣的說法當然跟行政院的說法如出一策當然包含國防部或者內政部對於軍人加薪我想他們心理上的基本態度應該是支持的但是由於行政院不執行所以你們現在又附和說對於這樣的不執行你們說行政院的態度這樣是違憲但違憲不是你們說的算"},{"start":203.561,"end":229.732,"text":"違憲要經過大法官來解釋目前大法官也沒有作成暫時處分所以你們就有依法來執行這部法律的一個義務所以對於這相關的預算的編列上你根本沒有選擇執行的權利你就是要依法編列 依法行政將我們法律所生的支出需求如實的反映在我們的一個總預算的編列上"},{"start":230.911,"end":258.144,"text":"所以你這樣的說法根本是違憲我們是遵照院的一個指示那本身的部分這個也是會是整個一個釋憲的一個結果來做一個辦理在釋憲未有結果前我想行政院的做法已經超越大法官了我想我們依照憲法增修條文第三條第二項第二款規定附議案如今立法院維持原決議的情況下行政院就應該接受該決議"},{"start":261.146,"end":286.045,"text":"這個不是政治宣示啊 而是高度拘束的憲政義務這是憲政義務啊我想所有讀憲法的人都懂這樣的一個道理我不相信院長不懂啊所以主席長 副議被否決後在立法院維持原決議的情況之下是不是只能討論要如何執行而不能選擇是否要不要執行"},{"start":291.248,"end":310.865,"text":"就是只能討論如何執行而不是說選擇說我要不要執行啊要討論如何來做啊憲法沒有賦予你說你可以不執行的一個義務啦我想這個這樣的說法我想我們不能接受根本就是違憲的一個說法"},{"start":312.369,"end":329.589,"text":"我想預算的編列權不可以成為實質否決立法院已通過法律的工具如果按照你們這樣的運作模式已經使立法權淪為形式存在不編列預算已經構成對立法權的實質架空立法院在這樣的情況之下"},{"start":330.35,"end":346.548,"text":"是被迫審查一份未完全依法編列的預算這樣的預算程序完全不符合憲政體制以及我們民主責任的一個政治的一個體制最後我想我也要告訴國防部還有內政部"},{"start":347.609,"end":362.803,"text":"還有主委長立法院通過我們軍警人員的待遇退休福利的相關修法目的很清楚就是在於穩定國家的安全人力保障基層人員的基本生活在法律以民定權利內容的情況下"},{"start":363.644,"end":389.691,"text":"行政院卻未在115年的預算中反映相關的支出以造成制度上有法規且有預算的結構性風險所以不依法編列預算根本就是顯示政府你說要提升國防任性的同時卻對所有軍警人員的努力付出根本是投下不信任票所以我想我還是要呼籲你們依法來編列相關的預算"},{"start":391.551,"end":399.341,"text":"好 署長你請回現在我請教育部還有運動部來 請教育部市長 運動部市長"},{"start":407.276,"end":421.08,"text":"兩位市長我想上週一也就是12月15號財政委員會前往新竹縣竹北市考察國小體育設施與教育建設的實際狀況同時也同步檢視我們中央教育預算的執行落差"},{"start":422.02,"end":447.906,"text":"目前我國面臨嚴重的高齡化少子化的狀況但是本席的選區新竹縣卻是逆勢成長上週以我們走訪竹北新社國小 博愛國小中正國小 興隆國小 東興國小共五間小學走進校園以後我們實際看到各學校提出的都不是豪華的建設而是最基本的體育與教學改善空間"},{"start":448.846,"end":474.891,"text":"因為這些學校的操場 運動場 籃球場使用超過年限都有達到10到20年早已經超過使用年限必須以太舊換新我想如果繼續使用不免會增加孩子運動的風險我們的孩子每天在跑跳使用的這些空間不能因為場地的老舊維護不易而增加他們受傷的風險這個絕對是零容忍所以我請教"},{"start":479.752,"end":507.2,"text":"教育部 運動部關於補助國中小學體育設施過去是否都是編列在我們教育部體育署向下更為報告如果是屬於基礎的運動設施是編在教育部那如果是一些專業運經濟型的會在所以現在你們有做很明確的預算的一個分工所以現在這幾所學校的相關預算是編列在教育部的國教署嗎還是體育部也有相關的預算"},{"start":508.322,"end":537.86,"text":"我們每年都會受理學校來提出有關於基礎運動設施的申請對我知道我是說現在剛才你講你現在這個運動部可能都是對於全民運動或者專業運動的設施的一個補助那這些對於國中小相關的體育設施的補助是現在是會編列在教育部國教署教育部國教署是不是市長請回答一下是的那個一般體育教學用的是編在國教署"},{"start":538.57,"end":564.968,"text":"所以說如果我想了解如果說這一次我看到總預算會看到你們的報告如果說這一次總預算沒有省是否會影響我剛才所提的國中小他的教育設施的相關設備設施的一個補助會不會因為這個部分是歷年來都有是屬於延續性延續性跟經常性的一個設備的一個支出所以不受影響"},{"start":566.912,"end":581.813,"text":"如果說我們有要增加預算的話就會受影響但是目前看來這些都是延續性經常性的所以對於這個那個教育部你也講一下因為現在像這個經費好像是編載教育部對不對"},{"start":582.554,"end":584.756,"text":"所以我在這邊是對於說我們這次考察所爭取的這幾所學校的必要的運動設施的改善經費"},{"start":605.478,"end":632.301,"text":"包括竹北博愛國小爭取270萬新社國小爭取560萬中正國小爭取596萬新隆國小644萬東興國小爭取1373萬這些都是很明確有急迫性的這些整建操場跑道與相關的一些籃球場還有跳遠場的相關的一個設施是否可以納入優先補助名單"},{"start":633.527,"end":636.152,"text":"如果學校有提案的話我們會依程序來審查"},{"start":637.162,"end":663.323,"text":"好 謝謝我想教育不能等待也不能打折扣的一個投資面對新竹縣逆少子化帶來的結構性挑戰本席會持續站在第一線為新竹縣教育來打拼嚴格把關預算爭取資源我們希望教育部能夠會議補助讓每一分教育經費都用在我們真正孩子需要的身上好不好 體育部也一樣好 以上 謝謝"},{"start":665.955,"end":666.823,"text":"好 謝謝林思敏 召委"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}