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現在因為詐騙的不分年齡我們希望說你有這樣的一個反應的工具他並不是保護自己他反應出來之後他可以幫忙很多人不管他是幾歲的所以我們統計一下"},{"start":69.013,"end":78.283,"text":"我們全國15歲以上人口2061萬人他的占比現在是千分之二大概未來有什麼計畫再讓他推廣你有什麼想法"},{"start":79.436,"end":104.084,"text":"非常謝謝委員的鼓勵的確我們現在這個我們網站通報查詢網算是得到不錯的成效因為現在經過這個機制已經下架了超過24萬則的詐騙訊息但是使用人數還是太少所以現在使用的人大部分都是一些很熱心的民眾一些熱心的民眾單一的人我上次知道就是說他通報的件數就是超過2000件是不是"},{"start":105.345,"end":121.039,"text":"一個人就通報超過2000件可是這些都是熱心民眾但是一般的民眾他應該也可以即使不通報他上去也應該做查詢所以我們會加強我們的宣導我們過去的宣導可能是太保守了一些"},{"start":122.12,"end":147.594,"text":"我是建議說你們特別去了解一下當他上網之後APP一年之後你研究一下可能是固定年齡層的人使用者通報的人熱心人是比較多但有些可能相關的一些年齡他可能沒有什麼人但是不同年齡層他有時候受到不同的詐騙訊息是不一樣的第二個問題我想問警政署今天張主任張主任請教一下"},{"start":148.715,"end":175.384,"text":"我接下来谈一下 我认为说这个诈骗案 诈骗本身是真的是应该要好好把它找出来 舍不舍平台当然也有责任所以你说对任何平台做什么样的处理我个人是没有意见但是你要注意一件事它政策的公平性跟一致性这个是非常非常重要的所以我今天跟你讨论这个因为在小红书这个封锁的一个"},{"start":176.264,"end":197.419,"text":"事件裡面我們聽到了這個看到你們的一個新聞稿就感覺說事實上我們警政署在辦這個案子有這個急迫性然後也很緊急的去做了一個處理但是呢這個小紅書公司他已讀不回嘛也就是說我們感覺我們窮盡了一些一切方法但是他沒辦法所以最後才有直接"},{"start":198.76,"end":225.879,"text":"直接在我們這個所有的法律啊特別為了網路有一個專章總共16個條文其中有15個條文是想說哇 加大業大像Meta 像Google它對社會影響一定比較大就像你也承認它現在詐騙金額還是最大的所以我們其中有15個條文很綿密的去規範這個對台灣社會影響最大的現在規定5%以上的就沒想到我們留了一條"},{"start":227.04,"end":244.65,"text":"劉慧條就說你不夠大你就大概是唯一死刑的概念所以你到底是不是窮盡一切我想請教一下這個張主任是這是你們的通知嘛你確認一下好不好你們的通知稿裡面新聞稿特別講你們有通知小紅書應該自行針對平台內不法內容"},{"start":245.57,"end":260.06,"text":"進行有效管理影響比較小的方式你們主要內容是這個嘛要求他你這個有詐騙內容這不法內容你要進行有效的管理這是你們的一個新聞稿最後是小紅書他沒有回應嘛"},{"start":261.261,"end":276.172,"text":"對不對是 包委員 這個是你們新聞稿對 我們新聞稿那就是說它的前提的原先的部分是行政院打壓中心這邊有針對這一個小紅書先通知他們做個有效管理那因為沒有回應"},{"start":278.063,"end":300.199,"text":"很好 那我就請問一下因為我們想有一些法律因為這個境外的網路所有在世界各地都有都有有時候也許阿拉伯的軟體我們目前沒有用但是未來有可能用在境外的像這種平台是非常多的我請問你的一致性因為現在網路包括一堆人在說的主要的原因主要原因就是它沒有落地"},{"start":300.859,"end":327.916,"text":"主要在外面論述包括政論節目包括某黨的po文第一個就是因為我們叫他他不落地那當然待會問數位部嘛因為數位部你沒有依法公告他是一定規模的所以他當然就沒有落地的一個所以你在講這個到底是你要求他管理還是因為他沒有落地就你警政署是因為他沒有落地嗎所以把他封鎖一年是不是因為他沒有落地是還是不是"},{"start":329.097,"end":357.183,"text":"包委員這個當然因為他沒有納管所以沒有因為他沒有落地嘛所以當然沒有納管那我這邊跟委員報告其實很謝謝委員這邊的指導現在其實跟您報告其實我這邊講一個數據其實大概委員們也都知道啦其實現在七個平台跟小紅樹的話數據的部分其實我跟大家報告其實確確實實在詐騙的數據大家看到因為他的用戶多嘛所以沒有他用戶多相對他會招詐的人數也會比較多不是啦是不是他沒有落地啦你剛剛那個邏輯錯了啦"},{"start":358.243,"end":382.55,"text":"因為他沒有落地 所以沒有納管 那個法條就規定先要把他公告5%以上 或者一定規模以上他才按照第28條裡面他有一些權利義務才出來嘛報委員他的27條規定是這樣就是說他每一個月獨立的訪客數我知道 數位部在後面嘛數位部的公文公告就沒有小紅書所以他會到達那個規模啦"},{"start":383.41,"end":411.588,"text":"沒有到達規模所以跟他落不落地因為法律沒有要求他落地所以不是這個原因坊間很多亂傳也不是你們你們要求是因為他沒有落地第二個請問一下因為這個送達通知很重要你們尤其我們警政署檢調在辦案都很重要就是說我通知一定要通知到你不然到時候你可以講說你是當事人所以你們現在不斷說我透過陸委會透過海基會然後就"},{"start":412.569,"end":440.205,"text":"就通知了嗎難道你不知道海軍會陸委會已經已讀不回已經很多年了嗎我就請教你如果你的公文書在其他人手上沒有送到你的我是法人也好我是個人沒有送到我送達通知或者到我的派出所做一個寄存送達通知我們台灣的法令嘛對不對你的意思就是說你推定小紅數位回應但我就請教一下"},{"start":441.431,"end":449.573,"text":"海基會有沒有跟你說已經把這個公文對方已經透過海協會送給當事人簽章的公文有回給你嗎"},{"start":452.124,"end":475.739,"text":"報告委員因為我們是在跨部會討論的時候那有受上級這個黨派總統這邊有開會所以沒有嘛所以就是說我丟出去了即使是中間人那也不管我不管可是你這樣去推定一家法人不好意思因為你收到的通知不作為其實我是覺得在法理上是有問題的再來現在明明就是網路嘛"},{"start":476.579,"end":487.261,"text":"那就請問一下你們辦案的那種精神有沒有透過他的網路網站或者他直接透過網路直接跟這家法人小紅書聯絡有沒有"},{"start":489.625,"end":510.381,"text":"因為我們這個偵查面的部分就是沒有一個窗口可以去掉所以你這麼緊急的事耶你用42條是非常緊急對我們人民非常危害所以你一通電話也不願意打給當事人你一個網路也不願意給他的話然後你就說做這樣推論那我就第三個請教你的專業"},{"start":512.096,"end":533.228,"text":"你們12月6號才你們刑事局才公布而且不要誤會兩岸共打好好的一切非常好那我就請問一下你們公告一切非常好的在小紅書事件上面你們要交換情資相關的打擊犯罪不管是這個平台業者是提供犯罪的一個場所他都是你們兩岸共打的可以交換情資"},{"start":534.408,"end":556.793,"text":"請問一下小紅書這件事情在封網之前你有沒有透過兩岸共打要求他傳遞訊息或者提供情資 有還是沒有幫委員 那個 跟您報告其實在各類重大案件的部分如果外勤大隊有查到嫌犯在大陸那邊都會透過兩岸共打由我們的刑事局 兩岸科不是啦 那你這個這麼好的管道你透過它因為各案 因為7 像今年1到4月是756件沒有 我跟你講"},{"start":562.854,"end":590.694,"text":"我想因為時間已經快到了我只是說啊未來換了一家在美國在韓國在哪裡的我覺得你們沒有道理這個信記了不管有沒有就是我送達他不回應你又這樣去推理怪怪的第二個呢也不要省力他有電話那麼緊急的事情你為什麼不打他有email"},{"start":591.354,"end":616.593,"text":"他有Homepage你不聯絡就是我什麼能做都不做不好意思就是他不理我我覺得這很離譜那就請問一下警政署再請教一下那請問一下你們未達5%的你看右下角未達5%的小紅數字牌第二嘛詐騙的件數目前你們打詐一標板警政署公布的他第二名447件那就請問一下第一名Telegram"},{"start":618.594,"end":637.291,"text":"2254件 那目前你們是警政組怎麼弄 危害很小他危害比較小就 我不講Meta好不好就是5%以下未公告的這一群弄在一起你們打造一標版 Telegram 你目前做什麼處理嘛我講說 處理一致性就好啦你們做什麼處理 請說明"},{"start":638.63,"end":660.229,"text":"包委員這個部分我們會回去我會再去做檢討所以每一個部分是你掛在那一標板掛了快大半年耶因為我們一標板它的數據會一直更新的每天都會更新可能昨天是2248件你不講這個事這是很無聊我在問你們你們警政署辦這個案我講支持嘛平台這詐騙本來當然就有責任嘛"},{"start":661.03,"end":675.565,"text":"他應該要回應嘛 我指第一個問題說你們該去做的事情 該通知的你真的有沒有把他當作一件詐騙 人民受損 這麼危急的事件一個email也不願意傳 一個電話也不願意打我就覺得有點莫名其妙Telegram"},{"start":677.229,"end":696.423,"text":"你們現在沒有處理嗎來你們有沒有處理Telegram第一名所以你現在就人家在問這個問題好不好你不要講公告的那四家七個平台那我就講這第一名你們意思說第一名沒有處理第一名有沒有通知包委員這個部分我回去再了解我的天啊"},{"start":698.12,"end":716.788,"text":"你有沒有通知你要通知他我們在案件裡面偵查裡面基本上只要是我們都會也都會聯繫你答不出來我就懂的所以實際上email也會發你是誰啊你是誰張主任是是我很尊重你你是專門負責這個詐欺方面的你是專業的你是這個人的主任"},{"start":717.708,"end":746.014,"text":"你對這麼大的一個平台業者你居然答不出來我覺得真的是我覺得是這個事情就有點悲哀了但是Telegram你要通知誰啊是要通知他我們目前實務上面確實也都無法通知你要通知他俄羅斯的原創者還要通知他英國的公司還要通知他杜拜的開發團隊你要通知誰我告訴你根本沒有通知我的意思就是說你們怎麼在處理這個我就2,250事件是加注在我們人民的詐騙案件"},{"start":747.054,"end":754.101,"text":"你痛不痛 你不痛 你不會痛嘛那看到別的覺得很痛我是希望這個處理的一致性最後一個問題請教"},{"start":756.628,"end":778.472,"text":"請教那個數位是NCC上來一下好不好其他我就不用問這個法律我就不問了最後一個問題請教一下剛剛講了這麼多到底譬如說像小紅書這類的不管是平台網路廣告業者到底屬於誰管啊我兩邊問來問去啊那個先請問蘇部長蘇衛部部長是"},{"start":779.212,"end":802.07,"text":"這個是到昨天為止你們這個產業署署長特別還親自跟我確認他認為小紅書屬於UGC下面有說明就使用者生成的內容他認為類似現在NCC管理的PGC專業生成內容他認為是一樣的所以這個事情應該是NCC管你認不認同署長這樣說的"},{"start":805.185,"end":830.222,"text":"因為小紅書它有三個特性它一個是網路短影音的社群平台所以第一個是平台然後短跟影音影音的話是NCC來管可是社群平台實際上是我書發部在管的所以這個地方會有一些疑義會在這個地方所以說人家用影音被騙了就去找NCC"},{"start":831.844,"end":850.625,"text":"然後網路被騙找你是什麼意思啊這個地方我在努力在你們再協調一下好不好因為我發現雙方說法完全不一樣該是我們要管的我們就應該管因為社群平台這個是我們在管的然後那個如果說不是社團社群平台形式的那個短影的影音的話像那個"},{"start":851.946,"end":879.554,"text":"像那個Netflix那些是NCC在管這個部長我覺得你們要協調好因為我要幫這個警政署講個話他們業務這個到底針對是誰到底怎麼樣去做是最精準最快不要轉說抱歉這是影音所以給找他這是我我覺得這樣不行那NCC陳處長嗎你講一下你們今天的報告你們認為這個是主管機關就是數位部嘛想說是數位部嘛NCC只是幫忙協力嘛是不是"},{"start":880.562,"end":897.935,"text":"跟委員報告其實網路內容的處理在行政院有訂了一個網際網路內容處理及分工原則裡面有相關的部會有相關那分工給誰你覺得這個網路的內容裡面這個影音的部分在那個分工原則裡面有規有規範在裡面給誰"},{"start":900.379,"end":917.222,"text":"目前是看他的內容是屬於哪一部分就剛剛我真的很佩服你們最後一句話啦大家都期待我們打造的團隊在第一線全職還搞不太清楚很多的一些問題像Telegram你怎麼會"},{"start":919.311,"end":943.688,"text":"抓中間的然後去忽略到對我們危害最大的然後你新聞稿口口聲聲說這已經對我們我們的人民危害非常嚴重400多件嚴重不得了我支持 平台要負責然後200多件還沒處理我是希望說幾個單位拜託能夠帶回去參考好不好我們會盡快釐清這個權責我們也很希望把這個權責劃分清楚這樣我們才好辦事好的 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}