{"error":false,"id":["166647"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166647,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166647","日期":"2025-12-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-26,19,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[26,19,15],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會","經濟委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-24T11:16:44+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-24T11:24:44+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8b793423fad44d600348968031a7af4f8f4e93bf07b6087fd81c25c0c566a88adf12fd57e3ba24235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"盧縣一","委員發言時間":"11:16:44 - 11:24:44","會議時間":"2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境、經濟、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n一、委員陳冠廷等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員王美惠等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員劉建國等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第三條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員盧縣一等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第三條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員徐欣瑩等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員邱志偉等20人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員蔡其昌等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員呂玉玲等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員馬文君等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、委員徐富癸等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員游顥等26人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十六、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條、第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十七、委員邱鎮軍等17人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十八、委員陳超明等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n十九、委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十、委員何欣純等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、委員郭國文等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、委員陳瑩等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、委員陳秀寳等23人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、委員邱若華等16人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第三條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、委員陳俊宇等35人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第四條條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、委員林俊憲等18人擬具「老年農民福利津貼暫行條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案...等39案\n(因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)。\n【第三十八案，如經院會復議，則不予審查；第三十九案，如未經院會交付本聯席會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":3.8615937500000004,"end":4.755968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.95846875,"end":6.00471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.970343750000001,"end":10.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.40909375,"end":27.419093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.11096875,"end":28.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.21221875,"end":28.245968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.95471875,"end":30.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.97159375,"end":28.988468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.23284375,"end":37.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.27409375,"end":40.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.83471875,"end":55.954718750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.85159375,"end":43.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.289718750000006,"end":45.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.141593750000006,"end":48.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.954718750000005,"end":60.072218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.65471875,"end":59.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.44346875,"end":66.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.51409375,"end":70.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.53096875,"end":67.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.54346875,"end":68.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.58534375,"end":92.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.17471875000001,"end":79.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.20221875,"end":136.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.77346875,"end":158.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.92596875,"end":161.72721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.01409375,"end":164.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.59596875,"end":164.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.62971875000002,"end":164.66346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.66346875000002,"end":174.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.24846875,"end":180.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.40784375,"end":183.42846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.36096875,"end":184.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.56346875,"end":188.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.74409375000002,"end":193.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.46096875,"end":191.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.66346875000002,"end":192.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.82346875000002,"end":199.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.69596875000002,"end":224.04659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":224.08034375000003,"end":236.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.30221875,"end":236.39909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.39909375000002,"end":241.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.57971875,"end":241.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.61346875,"end":241.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.96784375000001,"end":242.37284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.42346875,"end":262.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.11221875,"end":268.42784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.47846875,"end":278.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.62159375000005,"end":271.24596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":278.95784375,"end":280.56096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.79721875,"end":282.75471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.75034375,"end":285.28596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":285.97784375000003,"end":293.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.11159375,"end":301.31721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.43971875,"end":304.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.93721875,"end":303.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.21971875,"end":308.97846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.01221875000005,"end":309.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.94034375,"end":312.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.21846875,"end":316.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.01534375,"end":341.34471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.37409375000004,"end":344.38221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.20909375,"end":345.64784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.20471875000004,"end":347.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.43659375000004,"end":347.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.48721875,"end":347.50409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.50409375000004,"end":353.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":348.73596875000004,"end":351.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.38096875,"end":354.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.23721875,"end":365.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":366.13409375000003,"end":372.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":372.09096875,"end":386.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.95784375000005,"end":403.09034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.51221875000005,"end":409.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.51596875,"end":407.73096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":408.77721875000003,"end":436.99221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":410.48159375,"end":410.68409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.77659375,"end":413.14784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.33721875000003,"end":418.09221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":424.01534375,"end":424.38659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.62659375000004,"end":428.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.22971875,"end":429.70221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.99721875,"end":432.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.99221875,"end":464.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.90409375,"end":461.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.08534375000005,"end":462.22034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.98784375,"end":469.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.05534375,"end":465.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":469.83096875,"end":475.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":472.29471875,"end":472.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.90596875000006,"end":476.44596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.934,"end":30.721,"text":"是有請部長有請陳部長部長辛苦了因為今天一直在重複同樣的問題那我還是想從我們的8,110塊這個基數來談我們從民國84年開始3,000塊一直到現在的8,110塊那你覺得在世界的水準是大概是多少全世界的水準你在看的時候"},{"start":31.294,"end":59.271,"text":"我想全世界水準本身這要看看說他的國家有沒有像類似這樣的一個福利的制度我剛剛查了一下美國大概目前是一萬九千塊可是他們的制度不是那個瑞士最高一萬九千塊美國大概是一萬塊當然我們是優於日韓我在看的時候可是剛才你現在有一點點口誤就是說每增加一千塊的話應該是如果現行是五十四萬人的話應該是五點四億沒有一年十二個月OK一年十二個月"},{"start":60.512,"end":65.792,"text":"那我們再看的話有最低的生活費大概在全台灣是多少錢知道嗎"},{"start":68,"end":91.976,"text":"根據剛才委員好像是一萬五千多台北市的話是兩萬所以八千一百一十塊我看如果是老人家的話一天的餐費大概就差不多了那更不用說他要去做高鐵或是付水電費這些的費用那我是覺得說這個八千一百一十塊確實是有需要調整那你覺得到多少你覺得比較合理"},{"start":92.236,"end":115.734,"text":"不過我想我們在考慮這個額度的調整有幾個因素第一個因素就是說我們也認同現在的基數比較低跟現在的事業生活的一個水平是有一些差距但是我們也考慮到就是因為農業的經營比較特殊他不是65歲是完全沒工作像以農保的85萬裡面那將近有60萬將近有60萬是65歲以上的"},{"start":118.536,"end":136.373,"text":"那实际从农者也大概有30万将近30万是超过65岁的所以表示说他不只是单纯这个8110块当做他的唯一的一个生活的支出他也可以自己再从事相关的农业去得到他的这个所得这个也是我们考虑的"},{"start":136.513,"end":163.54,"text":"那我們再看那個就是最近在比較是勞農津貼跟那個勞退的那個金我是覺得一直很不公平就是說為什麼要拿三十年後的一個金額跟現在的勞工領了三萬三來做比較你覺得你有沒有在做一個詮釋或者是解釋的部分三十年後才會領到三萬八千四百七十九塊那為什麼一直在現在輿論現在都是在比三萬八跟現在的三萬三"},{"start":164.625,"end":192.862,"text":"不過我要跟委員報告就是我們對農民的退休後的生活的保障大概用我們的老農津貼當作基底然後我們也提出了一個農民退休儲金的部分去做一個堆疊式的你的意思是說這個三萬八是三十年後對不對對 三十年後這個老保的三萬三三十年後誰知道是不是三萬三是不是更高不是 我們都是用同樣的推估來算的"},{"start":193.871,"end":218.001,"text":"那他們會認為說老農領的比較多不過應該是要比的話應該是自體的儲金的比例對 應該是退休歸退休然後津貼歸津貼但是津貼的部分像勞保的部分的老年給付他每個月所繳的金額跟農民所繳的78塊他也有差那國民年金的話他一個月也繳到1250塊左右所以基本上這些給付"},{"start":218.641,"end":240.837,"text":"也要去檢視他的每個月的就是繳的這個金額來計算那現在的覆蓋率是41%左右然後年輕人是30%那我看到你們的那個計畫就說你們對農業的經營的準備金有給他們兩年大概72萬左右對 一年36萬對 那有多少人來申請這個錢那誘因是怎麼樣 為什麼不能提高"},{"start":241.621,"end":268.19,"text":"不過我想我們為了這是我想農業從事農業的唯一的沒有一個行業說他退休以後只要從事那個行業就一個月相當於一個月有3萬塊這是只有農業從事農農的部分那這個部分現在目前大概覆蓋率可以領到大概900多人那然後已經在領的大概從來申請這個方案的話大概是3分39%左右大概將近4成"},{"start":268.81,"end":282.467,"text":"所以說也有增加的一個比例那我們再看說國民黨的版本是一萬五民進黨是一萬二你覺得合理的大概是多少錢不過我剛才說的就是我考慮的第一個因素就是"},{"start":283.82,"end":311.859,"text":"本身基數跟現在的物價指數這是一個關係第二個就是說我們也考慮他過往的提繳的金額嘛跟其他的因為最重要的就是以行政的團隊一體的角度來講我們考慮農民老農經濟的時候也會同時考慮到八大社會基金你說版本差不多已經確定了嗎對確定了大概是落在我們是落在所有的委員的上下線中間所以不知道你還不能公佈答案"},{"start":312.284,"end":341.17,"text":"因為政院沒有核定沒有通過院會我們是不能對外說明的那我們是期待能夠把這個落實就是說能夠反映我們的物價指數那現在的外食的那個比例又這麼高我們現在的消費指數又這麼高我是覺得當然如果折衷一萬三一萬四當然是樂見那我們再看我們原住民的部分我想知道排富你剛才說排富到一萬兩千人左右那原住民有沒有被排富的"},{"start":342.478,"end":365.276,"text":"原住民有沒有被排富的沒有沒有統計這個部分是沒有統計還是不知道沒有統計沒有統計我們沒有把它分我是希望知道有一個這個我想我們可以來了解那一直在排富的話就是大概我們現在是五百萬嘛那麼現在的房子很容易就超過五百萬我們現在大部分的委員是提到八百萬以上到一千萬你覺得合理的數字大概是多少"},{"start":366.415,"end":385.53,"text":"我相信我們後續提出來的版本應該在委員會應該可以被接受OK好那我們現在有一個提到一個重點就是原住民的部分能不能降低到55歲的情侶就是因為我們的平均移民的問題可是每次提到這樣的一個公平性的時候會覺得說很像不能用族群來看那你認為呢"},{"start":387.031,"end":402.666,"text":"不過我想我們在考慮特別是剛才我也了解原住民委員會在他們的報告裡面有講到他們有統計到原住民的全體的漁民比全國還低可是當我在處理老農津貼的時候我的族群是以"},{"start":403.907,"end":425.595,"text":"從事農業這些老農津貼的人的餘命然後這個餘命是比較高的是 可以更細緻一點比如說他確實是從事農業然後他的男性的比例平均是82歲那我的意思是說可以就更細緻來細分的時候我是覺得從實際的那個年齡的差距去算這樣可以更"},{"start":426.535,"end":448.474,"text":"可以更說服國人說我們原住民的平均餘命在農人的時候大概是多少我們才可以更精緻來算大概是幾歲可以提前這樣子對 我跟委員稍微說明我們現在目前統計的就是我沒有分男女的部分就是65歲零老農津貼的這些人的平均餘命是82.7歲他比全國的80.8歲還高"},{"start":450.716,"end":475.973,"text":"所以我也謝謝委員的提醒我們後續會去更細分男的女的還有從65歲可能每5年每10年當作一個層級去做這樣的資訊讓我們的所有的原住民朋友們了解我們並沒有歧視他們我們只是用比較全國性的一致的標準去處理那謝謝部長用更細緻的方式來計算我們平均餘命那謝謝你的努力 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}