{"error":false,"id":["166662"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166662,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166662","日期":"2025-12-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-12-24T11:46:34+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-24T11:55:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8b793423fad44d603254cf02210e11de1d90d5b7b1a8c99953d00c89e76a212f2843dd09ca1b81945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"11:46:34 - 11:55:59","會議時間":"2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會及國家通訊傳播委員會就「社群平台打詐成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【12月22日及24日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.81971875,"end":5.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.4478437500000005,"end":10.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.599718750000001,"end":6.072218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.77596875,"end":14.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.15971875,"end":13.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.10034375,"end":15.927218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.66971875,"end":17.395343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.812843750000003,"end":20.06159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.247218750000002,"end":23.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.81596875,"end":27.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.50346875,"end":53.642843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.828468750000006,"end":55.752218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":55.49909375,"end":68.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.62784375000001,"end":71.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.29409375,"end":73.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.70721875000001,"end":73.74096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":73.75784375,"end":73.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.79159375,"end":85.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.65096875,"end":83.20784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.41846875,"end":98.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.41221875000001,"end":102.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":98.71596875,"end":98.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":101.66909375,"end":101.85471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":103.12034375,"end":107.86221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.93409375,"end":108.70596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.82409375,"end":110.42721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.44409375000001,"end":110.56221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.27096875000001,"end":112.97534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.38846875,"end":116.38409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.75971875,"end":115.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.82721875,"end":115.86096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.86096875000001,"end":115.87784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":115.87784375000001,"end":117.14346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.14346875000001,"end":117.54846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":117.19409375000001,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.54846875000001,"end":129.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.56534375000001,"end":117.58221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.81659375,"end":138.99659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.99659375000002,"end":183.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.90409375000002,"end":164.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":183.51284375,"end":188.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":188.79471875000002,"end":199.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.69221875000002,"end":200.53971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":199.25721875000002,"end":199.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.82659375,"end":204.23534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":204.37034375000002,"end":218.19096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":218.59596875000003,"end":219.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":219.82784375000003,"end":222.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":223.00034375,"end":226.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":226.99971875000003,"end":230.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":230.64471875,"end":234.42471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":234.61034375000003,"end":238.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":239.03159375,"end":239.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":239.77409375000002,"end":246.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":246.57471875000002,"end":251.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":251.35034375,"end":253.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":253.61159375000003,"end":259.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.58971875000003,"end":260.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":259.90596875,"end":260.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":260.76659375,"end":262.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.74534375,"end":279.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.53159375,"end":342.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.28471875,"end":320.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.70159375000003,"end":325.95471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.96471875000003,"end":344.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":345.59721875,"end":345.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":346.32284375,"end":350.13659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":350.60909375,"end":365.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.16034375000004,"end":360.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.83471875000004,"end":367.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":368.32784375,"end":379.60034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.63846875,"end":382.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":382.92471875,"end":386.73846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.77221875000004,"end":398.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.67409375,"end":394.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.92221875,"end":429.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":429.31409375000004,"end":433.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.26721875000004,"end":444.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":444.90659375,"end":445.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.19346875,"end":448.61909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":448.83846875,"end":452.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":452.19659375000003,"end":455.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.10346875000005,"end":454.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":455.63909375000003,"end":459.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":459.48659375000005,"end":460.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.39784375000005,"end":467.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":467.68784375,"end":469.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":470.30346875000004,"end":478.67346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.87596875,"end":481.91346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":483.26346875,"end":486.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.46971875,"end":495.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":494.67096875000004,"end":504.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.10409375000006,"end":509.99346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.82034375,"end":511.73159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":514.7353437500001,"end":516.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.2709687500001,"end":516.5578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":516.5578437500001,"end":516.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.65909375,"end":516.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":516.77721875,"end":516.96284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.96284375,"end":517.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":517.19909375,"end":517.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":517.7222187500001,"end":528.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.31971875,"end":540.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.0772187499999,"end":563.50409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":1.837,"end":4.841,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那麻煩邀請我們速發部林部長 林部長請 寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶寶"},{"start":19.031,"end":39.471,"text":"大家無案喔 抱歉喔 我想說剛剛原本想說要不要直接消失一下 大家就下課了開玩笑 跟大家請教一下 這兩三個禮拜很多國際的新聞 東南亞的新聞 泰國 緬甸 柬埔寨一下是自己的軍隊去打KK園區 一下是F16去轟炸園區 對不對我想確認一下"},{"start":42.854,"end":71.083,"text":"那最近的相關的詐騙的一些各項統計數據有沒有因此變少包括你們網域的封鎖就是一些詐騙的網址或者是實際上有報案的案件是不曉得各單位依照我們速發部我們速發部這邊主要是針對網路上的一些那個偽冒訊息的防堵依照我們的統計那個事實上過去這一年多來都穩定在下降跟一年多比起來最近炸完之後有沒有在更明顯的下降"},{"start":72.004,"end":84.504,"text":"這個照完以後可能我不知道有沒有最新的數字一部分是您的網域的嘛與網域的封鎖的提報譬如我們之前那個APP啊不是也都有民眾在上傳一些詐騙網站的可疑網址嗎那這些數量有沒有因此而減少"},{"start":87.019,"end":111.913,"text":"這個數量 坦白講就是說增加跟減少不一定就代表詐騙的數量減少因為我們一直在推廣網站通報查詢網我們希望更多人使用 更多人詐近期發生這麼多事件有沒有因此減少我個人的感覺好像是有減少但是我那個就是實際統計可能手上沒有資料好 那沒關係 那其他單位還是要補充 你要幫書發部補充"},{"start":117.701,"end":127.255,"text":"我們這邊的話是有針對網址的停職解析的部分那今年到目前為止的11月底的話是有停職解析的4萬5千件的網址"},{"start":130.461,"end":153.175,"text":"好 沒關係 我是想說了解最近這個詐騙源區這源頭啦 現在了解一下大家都以為在東南亞那實際上詐完之後有沒有減少我覺得這個要先釐清一下非常謝謝委員這個部分其實我們也一直在思考到底哪一個策略奏效那實際上跟委員報告其實事實上詐欺的數據不管是在發生受理報案書跟財損其實從今年的6月很明顯的逐步的下降"},{"start":153.735,"end":182.309,"text":"那尤其他下架的最高峰大概就是在我們是希望持續會再下下去那11月像我們每天關注大概就1萬2萬如果看到3萬我們就好緊張那實際上就像委員您所指示的就是說最近減碳這個打仗的問題他大概也是最近大概這一個月到半個月之間但是實際上我們在看其實12月有點怕怕的因為12月感覺上好像有一點點有時候到3萬"},{"start":183.61,"end":199.504,"text":"然後就是感覺上每天看那個數據不如11月來的安心所以實際上就是委員你所講說這個他們戰爭這個部分到底是不是有影響其實我們目前還在觀察當中還沒有照明確的很明確的指標好 那我們這個"},{"start":201.045,"end":221.76,"text":"打壓中心呢有要補充了嗎還是你手上沒有數據跟委員報告就是其實詐欺在醫學上其實它是一種慢性病它不會因為一種藥方就會好了這樣其實就是其他就是它就漸漸好是因為它有任何的相關措施作為然後以那個最近東南亞的部分因為其實整個詐騙雖然"},{"start":223.041,"end":237.117,"text":"很多大宗司放在柬埔寨可是柬埔寨也很大然後現在被打擊的是跟泰國交界的部分所以說它是佔其中的一部分當然我們是希望因為那邊打仗 剩下的人會怕然後趕快跑這樣來減少這個數字"},{"start":239.159,"end":253.919,"text":"不過 假如以詐欺而言 你假如是機房被抄的話他不會立即下降 他會先升再降原因是為什麼 因為他可能詐騙是長期的在騙你一個月 兩個月突然他被詐掉 他就 我怎麼"},{"start":254.54,"end":278.419,"text":"很多人就本來有在定期聯繫的然後說總統突然沒有聯繫的我擔心一下發生什麼事趕快去報案我就覺得我們可以利用這個指標來確認一下因為我們過去都說這個犯罪的中心或者他們一個集團化都是在東南亞這些緬甸或者是柬埔寨那實際上如果說發生戰爭或者一些軍事的行動在攻擊的話那一定是會影響到他們的一個作業如果說"},{"start":279.62,"end":301.205,"text":"照常理來判斷有供給的話那相關的後續可能或許會有這個延遲性的一個時間但是一定會對數量或是相關的一些訊息的散布一定會有影響如果沒有影響的話就代表說我們過去的一些判斷那是不是會有一些失準我們以為我們的大宗的詐騙來源都是來自那一邊但實際上被抄完了之後如果說沒有變的話"},{"start":302.485,"end":320.879,"text":"那怎麼會這樣 一定是我們當初的判斷可能有一些問題後續可以以這個指標來做一下我們一些源頭的部分的一些釐清跟我們怎麼來做防範以上那另外要再請教一下我們蘇發部長 林部長剛剛有特別提到這個小紅書有提到說現在TWNIC有封鎖網域那APP的部分沒有嗎"},{"start":327.264,"end":344.495,"text":"我想確認一下APP的部分沒有就我今天也先不跟你們討論說這個意識形態還怎麼樣啦這個我指控你們也不會你們也不會承認嘛我們就討論客觀的事我們現在封小紅書的話網域封鎖那APP沒有進是因為進不了還是沒有去執行"},{"start":346.407,"end":367.549,"text":"第一個就是因為我們疏發部事實上並不是決策機關因為這件事情是內政部依照炸防條例第42條然後發文給TWNIC 請TWNIC用DNSRPG就你的專業如果說要進APP的話做得到嗎"},{"start":368.854,"end":381.913,"text":"坦白講因為internet的特性就是說完全進那個封組是很難的即使在中國中國他有網路長程但是中國人也是會利用但至少形式上制度上面的一個封做得到嗎"},{"start":383.37,"end":397.599,"text":"制度上的封因為是技術上還是制度上技術上現在就是一個普遍的譬如說你說TWIC你禁但是我是還是可以用跳板那是另外的一個手段嘛對不對譬如說我們不做另外的手段的正常操作使用下面禁得了嗎"},{"start":399.131,"end":421.687,"text":"跟我們補充說明喔因為App的方式的話它其實是一個以多網域多服務的架構所以它一個App可能會連到好幾個網域另外一個的話就是說它的多服務架構它可能有一些有一些服務是更寄生在這個CDN裡面喔所以這個的話就變成說你很難如果你要全封的話你可能不能精準打擊"},{"start":422.367,"end":448.286,"text":"所以這個在技術上有它的一個限制就是說你擋一個網域的話可能APP還是可以work那但是你全部擋掉的話你可能會變成傷及無辜那我再確認一下那個內政部有辦法或者是打到指揮中心有辦法說明一下為什麼當初只有發給TWN IC而沒有針對APP的部分去執行是做不到技術上面還是說我們沒有要做這樣子"},{"start":448.871,"end":463.927,"text":"因為在炸防條例的第42條部分只有情資解析意圖他沒有辦法請App Store或者Google Play也把那個就禁止下架所以說這段時間大家可能以為是不是民意的反彈"},{"start":465.189,"end":481.748,"text":"讓我們的政府是不是意識到我們民意就是採納民意的方式不要去禁小紅書但實際上我們政府沒有辦法把小紅書的APP禁掉並不是因為我們你們政府不想禁而是技術上做不到是這樣子是不是"},{"start":484.789,"end":511.4,"text":"就是技術上是有困境的所以是技術上做不到啦所以說之前院長說什麼一年的一個時間嘛對不對那一年的時間到了之後你們應該也是做不到啊所以是一個虛張真事我們是希望藉由這次來再跟小紅蘇請他再要提供相關的聯繫管道至少再停止再下架跟那就是院長講的這一年假設院長講的這一年的時間到了那他們一樣沒有落地的話那能有什麼作為"},{"start":515.112,"end":540.34,"text":"現行的機制好像辦不到嘛對不對好不好那我當然啦我個人是當然是非常不贊成這個封小紅書的這一項決策啦畢竟你知道我們要跟你爭你的認同但是你也知道我們普遍社會上面大家的一個認知都是認為說就是一個意識形態的一個操作啦那也希望說當然你們都是專業的幕僚單位啦那也希望說你們未來都能夠站在"},{"start":541.4,"end":562.957,"text":"民眾的立場來提供一些這個中央政府的一些決策的一些建議那未來如果說這個小紅書的問題這個看起來好像就是這樣啦你未來不可能再多進了嗎對我只要確認一下這件事情而已所以說大部分的使用者應該是可以放心啦我應該可以這樣子理解啦以上謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}