{"error":false,"id":["166772"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166772,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166772","日期":"2026-01-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-05T09:32:29+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-05T09:42:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b58925b3f0111aa03663011a53eea80ce167d23619189f10e6ce3b48d9307feac045ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"09:32:29 - 09:42:28","會議時間":"2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【1月5日及8日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.29221875,"end":8.08034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.36659375,"end":13.244093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.15534375,"end":16.129718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.90596875,"end":18.188468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.01534375,"end":19.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.43284375,"end":21.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.01471875,"end":24.145343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.15784375,"end":27.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.33034375,"end":31.300343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.941593750000003,"end":43.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.51346875,"end":45.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.69471875,"end":48.479093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.424093750000004,"end":50.048468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.92596875,"end":51.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.22534375,"end":56.14034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.96721875,"end":57.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.43534375,"end":59.211593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.22409375,"end":62.080343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.603468750000005,"end":70.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.03659375000001,"end":73.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.36534375000001,"end":77.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.89221875,"end":80.40659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.89596875000001,"end":88.91159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.68784375,"end":96.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.46721875,"end":100.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.07846875000001,"end":108.67221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.84096875,"end":111.47346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.64221875000001,"end":116.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.17721875000001,"end":124.34909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.38284375,"end":145.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.52284375000002,"end":153.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.55971875,"end":154.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.78721875000002,"end":157.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.30159375000002,"end":160.41096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.33909375000002,"end":184.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.77846875,"end":190.33034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.52846875,"end":192.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.13159375,"end":203.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.47596875000002,"end":215.84534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.68909375,"end":230.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.49284375000002,"end":234.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.38659375,"end":266.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.28471875,"end":267.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.20846875,"end":272.27534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.76471875000004,"end":277.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.72596875,"end":304.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.74284375,"end":308.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.69159375000004,"end":319.98096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.18346875000003,"end":322.12409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.64721875000004,"end":324.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.50346875,"end":327.05159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.43971875,"end":328.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.72221875,"end":330.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.32096875,"end":332.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.82284375,"end":334.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.89846875,"end":336.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.40034375000005,"end":337.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":337.42971875,"end":338.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.10034375000004,"end":347.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.89221875000004,"end":350.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.06909375000004,"end":351.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":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請我們工程會陳主委陳副主委請委員長主委 副主委 早一向工程會在本席當立委之後我非常重視雖然人家號稱小單位但是我認為非常重要的職責"},{"start":32.154,"end":58.902,"text":"為什麼 全國公共工程所有的合約 所有的析資一定要公共工程委員會他來做一些前提的規劃那當然 我在想我要談的議題跟昭緯談的議題差不多第一個 國防部最近"},{"start":60.67,"end":85.917,"text":"標案爭議頻傳這裡面啊就是要注意喔 請主委跟副主委要注意喔小蝦米吃大金翼人家不是要公平嗎但是我不管國防部 國防部過去他們在做事情當然他是以實際為準但是20年是這樣20年以後"},{"start":89.758,"end":116.108,"text":"的廠商思想邏輯跟他做生意的方法完全不一樣所以變成投機起腳的人就會變成公司小鯨魚他還是會吃大鯨魚這個亂象就請諸委一定要去注意那我還特別要提就是當我們疫情最嚴重"},{"start":117.248,"end":144.898,"text":"我們的蛋最嚴重的時候我就感覺到很奇怪啊資本額50億可以飆到1億多這個就是說資本額不對稱為什麼要設計資本額資本額不大當然就不能飆到我一個限制的金額啊你不能50萬的金額他公司破產都無法去賠償這個我要建議我們工程會要有所規範"},{"start":146.601,"end":160.201,"text":"就像很簡單啊你剛才所講的所有公司的有些規範是經濟不管但是我的看法跟你相反只要跟工程會有關的"},{"start":161.4,"end":190.106,"text":"公共工程委員會當然要管啊亂象你當然要去就政啊你亂象雖然沒法但是公共工程委員會組織架構這麼嚴謹你很簡單啊你要發現亂象要替老百姓該修的就要修像國防部他只有更改進出口41天他就可以標到這個案"},{"start":191.764,"end":214.62,"text":"這個很亂象就會變成剛才召委所講開茶葉店資本額10萬他可以飆到幾千萬的工程在台南裝潢公司他又去把這個經濟部把所有的業務把它增加他竟然可以飆到6億的炸彈"},{"start":216.738,"end":233.694,"text":"這叫什麼 這叫做小蝦米吃大鯨魚這類所以我們的法律沒有規範啊 你沒有錯啊但是問題亂象已經出來 既然亂象出來公共工程委員會勢必想辦法去應對"},{"start":235.436,"end":255.539,"text":"那當然國防部有沒有錯國防部當然也沒有錯啊因為我立人來就是這樣可是你到底我們公共工程委員會不是指責你們的錯誤可是社會亂象出來的時候我們租款機關就要未以從謀想像如何還備不是嗎"},{"start":256.42,"end":266.901,"text":"主委在這個部分本席當然講這些沒有指責公共工程委員會但是我也不贊成你去推給經濟部如果是這樣的話"},{"start":268.291,"end":289.153,"text":"那我們存在的必要是什麼存在的必要就是跟公共工程有關的有關法令規範因為任何一個公家機關是依照我們的準則來的所以在這個部分既然有社會亂象是否針對這些問題來研究因為我們接下來又要修華"},{"start":290.214,"end":299.637,"text":"修法當然不足的地方盡快修啊我們行政院版發生這個問題就以表現在執政黨發現這種亂象你們自動自發去做防備動作"},{"start":304.827,"end":313.233,"text":"主委本席提出這個看法你的看法如何好 謝謝委員的指教的確是如果說機關採購為了滿足或達到採購的品質我們希望機關在採購的評分上"},{"start":322.699,"end":351.794,"text":"或者是合約的要求上必須如果是專業採購那必須增加這個投標廠商的專業的時機另外他的履約能力如剛才委員所提的他的資本額很小但是這個標取的標案很大所以我們就比較考慮他有沒有這個履約能力或後續的保險的相關措施來作為決標的要件這個工程會來研究必要的時候那麼新增一些指引這個部分主委"},{"start":352.654,"end":378.767,"text":"因為我一向對於公共工程委員會陳主委跟陳副主委你們在領導之下的委員會我很少在指責你們我認為都是用鼓舞的方式建言的意識讓你們去把所謂這個亂象因為我說實在身為一個民意代表反對小蝦米去吃大金魚這一類叫做亂象"},{"start":380.131,"end":393.858,"text":"好這是要亂象所以我要拜託主委針對這些部分真的要盡快未以籌謀緩緩措施要把它因為我們政府機關本來發現問題就要趕快改進啊那這個亂象是真的這樣繼續下去對執政黨對"},{"start":401.002,"end":421.859,"text":"工程會都沒有什麼幫助啊他只有害處啊那既然是這樣你們沒有包庇的嫌疑那為什麼不能去修華去你最起碼如果我跟主委建議啦公共工程委員會該有的作為你就行文給各單位我管你國防部"},{"start":422.915,"end":452.518,"text":"我管你什麼單位你以後針對這些敬請貴單位要遵守公共工程裡面的公平競爭以及不利於老百姓的東西那這個部分你要去行文要告知他們提醒他們最起碼你們有動作所以主委我是建議這樣修華如果來不及要行文把你們立場講得很清楚"},{"start":453.058,"end":475.219,"text":"也就是老百姓遺溺的東西請全國標案各單位執行單位要去注意這些細節我想 主委 你的看法呢好 我們會遵照委員的指導來研議相關的含釋或相關的憲章的指引來喊醒各機關"},{"start":475.839,"end":493.739,"text":"最起碼人家才知道陳金德主委跟陳沪主委你們有作為啊對不對至於要不要修華來耶穌那是另外一個層次嘛行政院竟然要提出版本這其實很好啊把它規劃下去我相信這個小蝦米吃大鯨魚這個問題啊"},{"start":495.521,"end":522.567,"text":"我坦白講也不是你們叫他做也不是國防部要去包庇他是存在的一個亂象所以我還是希望主委這個部分要特別最後因為有很多事情人家說這個什麼叫做有利標什麼叫做有利標看起來這個就是他有後台有能力去做這個標案但是站在你們的立場"},{"start":524.236,"end":533.448,"text":"站在你們的立場 當然是公平公正這是最重要 也是你們的職責那我還是希望再度提醒我們主委"},{"start":535.247,"end":563.441,"text":"刪除三家的限制說實在的這些萬萬不可所以要重新考慮都聽聽協則專家他們的看法以及這不是找毛環這是基本的要素也就是投標廠商只有一家他就可以去標說實在主委以一般思考邏輯來講這個部分是不符合邏輯的"},{"start":564.722,"end":580.48,"text":"三家招標你說你第二次我們本來就有降下本來這個制度就有了第一次三家不能開標第二次的話他就沒有這個限制那為什麼要全部第一標就把它取消掉這個真的"},{"start":581.221,"end":596.986,"text":"建議主委跟副主委要稍微要研究一下這個路子後門一開那投標案子會更混亂這一點我特別提醒我們陳主委跟陳副主委一下好不好好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}