{"error":false,"id":["166782"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166782,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166782","日期":"2026-01-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-05T09:53:19+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-05T10:03:12+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:53","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b58c591df63454a0da53011a53eea80ce16aea507db77ca691819d60a91c10e9f3c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"09:53:19 - 10:03:12","會議時間":"2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【1月5日及8日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.77346875,"end":3.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.047218750000001,"end":4.840343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.447218750000001,"end":10.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.476593750000003,"end":19.032218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.133468750000002,"end":29.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.410343750000003,"end":30.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.794093750000002,"end":34.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.70909375,"end":37.44284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.66221875,"end":41.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.32409375,"end":47.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.58471875,"end":51.533468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.837218750000005,"end":76.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.59284375,"end":80.47409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.81159375,"end":82.95471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":83.08971875,"end":99.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.14409375000001,"end":87.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.96034375,"end":103.22159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.50846875,"end":112.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.53659375000001,"end":115.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.24909375,"end":124.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":124.87221875,"end":127.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.26846875000001,"end":129.63096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.88409375,"end":131.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":131.48721875,"end":135.68909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":136.11096875,"end":137.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":137.68034375000002,"end":141.03846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.25784375,"end":142.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.64159375,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.53159375,"end":145.78034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.26971875,"end":149.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.56034375000002,"end":156.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.39471875,"end":161.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.72721875000002,"end":167.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.80221875,"end":171.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.98721875,"end":176.89784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.03284375,"end":180.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.13346875000002,"end":188.64284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.82846875,"end":191.20784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.47784375,"end":195.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.81471875000003,"end":204.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.31534375,"end":206.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.78346875000003,"end":208.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":206.83409375000002,"end":207.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.42034375,"end":218.14034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.34284375000001,"end":226.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.16096875000002,"end":221.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":221.17784375000002,"end":221.53221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.53221875000003,"end":221.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.89846875,"end":251.01284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.13034375,"end":228.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.00471875000002,"end":249.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.50221875000003,"end":288.28971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.05346875000004,"end":261.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.37409375000004,"end":296.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.72846875,"end":289.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":296.33909375,"end":302.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.59971875,"end":304.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.84409375,"end":317.31471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":307.49346875000003,"end":308.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":317.78721875,"end":332.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":332.97471875,"end":343.926593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衛達三家流標比例非常的高"},{"start":177.196,"end":193.824,"text":"所以你們要取消這個三家投標的這樣子的一個限制那其實流標應該也有其他的因素存在比如說是不是這個利潤太低或者是工程技術性太高難度太高"},{"start":194.725,"end":217.868,"text":"導致的流標所以未必說跟這個三家合格廠商為什麼會為打三家去投標可能會有其他因素我們是不是也要去衡量考量我再補充一下剛講的說取消三家並不表示說只要一家來就一定要給他因為他還是有基本"},{"start":218.729,"end":232.645,"text":"資格或是他的履業能力的限制嘛那在我們的這個決標方法上面還有一種就是合格以後他才能進入到最低標所以不會說因為取消三家任何一家來都一定得標不是這個意思啦"},{"start":233.326,"end":250.195,"text":"第二個就是說這一次修改這個取消三家除了效率以外其實因為在實務上看到非常多的這一些廠商就是剛文有提到他事實上是為了符合三家來的那他可能因此會處罰"},{"start":251.796,"end":265.907,"text":"他可能会被刑罚处罚会被停权那时候我们实务上看到非常多的案例甚至是机关请他去找三家来的所以他们会在这些案子里面不断的伸冤"},{"start":266.647,"end":288.064,"text":"另外一個就是說現在的這個所謂要三家才能開標的話等於是說因為我是這個如果是我正常的廠商我沒有辦法擔保會不會有三家可是如果沒有三家來變成是我負擔流標的責任等於處罰這個合格的廠商所以有這樣綜合的一個考量所以不是單一的目標啦"},{"start":288.504,"end":316.37,"text":"是那剛剛副主委有提到就是說會有一些履約能力相關的一個考量那這個應該跟我們在第三個強化政府採購契約範本的拘束率裡面這邊會有一些的條件的一個列就是把它列出來列舉那這個部分的話會不會造成說另外一種維標 綁標因為就是說我們如果在採購範本裡面"},{"start":318.251,"end":331.75,"text":"去針對這個工程的一個條件給他提高就是加鹽這個條件的話是不是就等於會在確保就是特定某家廠商才能有那個條件來投標"},{"start":332.998,"end":359.738,"text":"我們所謂把企業換本剛性化就是說我們目前的狀況各機關參考工程會所訂定的企業換本是原則所以很多機關它制定很多機關包括新政院底下很多機關它制定他們的採購企業換本有時候這個企業換本是有利於甲方的它對投票廠商的權利有時候會並不那麼的考慮到"},{"start":360.658,"end":385.712,"text":"所以我們希望基於站在雙方和平等的這個角色來把這個企業換本來個比較完善希望機關來遵循而不是說有些機關他長年一年幾千億的預算所以當然企業換本就是他們自己的企業換本就訂的比較條件很苛所以長期下來就這個對工程品質也不好所以我們希望來改這個企業換本"},{"start":386.822,"end":415.102,"text":"我想就是說剛剛我們蔡議長委員提出的建議我覺得這個真的是我們工程會要好好的去思考就是說我們如果刪除了三家的限制之後我們之後是不是還能夠兼顧這個房幣然後要如何兼顧對於公共工程的工程品質是否會造成影響這個是我們需要好好的去思考的就是說我們要怎樣真的又要就是連結又要效能"},{"start":416.303,"end":424.619,"text":"有達到這樣子兼顧的一個結果這部分我們工程會應該要好好的去思考那這部分是不是可以請主委再說明一下"},{"start":425.745,"end":451.93,"text":"我們目前這個比較大的案當然是符合資格的家屬比較少就都有利標那比方說小兒採個15萬以上的15萬以上說多不多縮小不小但是很多機關辦理15萬年以上的公開招標仍然是要三家以上所以有時候在湊足三家剛才副主委講的往往很容易觸發"},{"start":453.01,"end":475.721,"text":"這很多公務機關一直有反應這件事情所以他的金額不一樣開標方式絕標方式不一樣都我們都必須來考量謝謝委員的指教了是好那我們另外一方面我們的修法重點就是說針對違規廠商停權規定這個部分我們就是有這個廠商的免責條款就是說"},{"start":478.002,"end":504.996,"text":"要避免一人犯错全体受罚这样子的一个状况可是这样子的状况就是说我们目前修订的部分就是有增订说一定有合理监督管理机制并落实执行的这个部分我们就是会有免责的这样的状况可是这部分也会让人家产生一个疑虑就是说一定有合理监督管理机制那这个要由谁来认定"},{"start":506.383,"end":526.678,"text":"就是說是業務機關的承辦員或者是主管就可以來做一個認定還是說會在另外成立一個審查委員會來做一個認定報委 那個我們的將來停權的機制上面你要做成停權的一個認定必須組成一個停權審查委員會"},{"start":528.399,"end":545.198,"text":"第二個就是說這些免責事實上本來就已經存在於個別的法律譬如說民法裡面它有對於雇用人的免責條款那麼行政法裡面有對於雇用人的免責條款但是相對於那兩部法律的免責條款因為它非常空幻"},{"start":545.839,"end":570.174,"text":"在食物上運用的機率很少所以我們在取食物跟現實的狀況底下那麼才會取一個中間值就是說你要有一個實際的監督的機制而且你要真的去執行而且你不能因此得到利益那將來會有這個聽檢委員會以及將來處理申訴的機關甚至由法院會形成一個比較系統性的見解"},{"start":570.914,"end":590.143,"text":"是好那目前我們就是還在公告期間嗎還在收集意見那我們也希望就是說我們工程會就是要廣泛的收集各方的意見然後包括業務單位的或者是廠商的或者是一些專家學者的意見希望就是說在這一個修訂的草案能夠更符合實際的一個需求謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}