{"error":false,"id":["166801"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166801,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166801","日期":"2026-01-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-05T11:32:08+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-05T11:44:14+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b5822ebf4dac941f4553011a53eea80ce164a653833dddfd2f1a5ef969bfb1957e05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何欣純","委員發言時間":"11:32:08 - 11:44:14","會議時間":"2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【1月5日及8日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.03909375,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.5153437499999995,"end":9.447218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.7428437500000005,"end":8.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.31596875,"end":13.007843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.855968750000002,"end":17.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.96909375,"end":20.09534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.41596875,"end":103.60971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.96409375,"end":106.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.95096875,"end":111.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.04721875000001,"end":136.43159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.81971875000002,"end":152.04096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.44596875000002,"end":167.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.02159375000002,"end":168.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.57846875,"end":173.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.93221875,"end":176.03721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.34096875,"end":184.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.41659375,"end":178.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.82159375,"end":178.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.25159375,"end":181.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.25096875,"end":190.39784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.47409375,"end":188.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.92534375000002,"end":194.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.92909375000002,"end":204.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.24784375000002,"end":211.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.05284375000002,"end":239.11596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.58846875,"end":240.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.20846875,"end":242.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":242.37284375000002,"end":294.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.34346875,"end":321.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":322.73159375,"end":323.33909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.62596875,"end":335.06721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.48909375,"end":340.07909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.55159375,"end":351.60471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.02659375,"end":356.17784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.24534375,"end":358.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.95409375,"end":392.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.59409375,"end":403.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":405.30096875000004,"end":406.27971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.70159375000003,"end":410.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.81909375000004,"end":414.32909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.20659375,"end":423.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":423.79596875000004,"end":426.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.22596875000005,"end":429.53346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.02284375000005,"end":431.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.99721875,"end":436.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":436.58721875000003,"end":440.50221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.92409375000005,"end":442.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":443.18534375,"end":445.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.91909375,"end":457.36034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.98659375000005,"end":446.42534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.11721875,"end":447.80909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.35721875,"end":450.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.51721875000004,"end":453.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":457.47846875000005,"end":458.37284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.94659375000003,"end":459.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.97596875000005,"end":462.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.33846875,"end":465.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.62534375,"end":462.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.91596875000005,"end":473.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.94971875000005,"end":466.47284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.41784375000003,"end":467.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.74596875000003,"end":477.93096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.20096875,"end":480.25971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.68159375000005,"end":491.75159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":485.33909375,"end":485.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.30096875000004,"end":486.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":492.10596875000005,"end":498.40034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.47721875,"end":492.89909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":496.86471875,"end":497.59034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.87284375,"end":501.74159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.23096875000005,"end":507.95159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.39034375000006,"end":512.3897187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.34784375000004,"end":510.41534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":512.55846875,"end":514.81971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.3090937500001,"end":518.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.8190937500001,"end":528.9609687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.41659375,"end":541.3472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":534.3103437500001,"end":536.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.5834687500001,"end":546.9665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.33784375,"end":550.4597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.84784375,"end":551.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.6028437500001,"end":554.4084687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.5265937500001,"end":555.4040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.99471875,"end":557.2097187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":557.41221875,"end":561.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":560.70284375,"end":561.0234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.0234687500001,"end":566.00159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.07409375,"end":561.7153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.48284375,"end":566.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":566.42346875,"end":574.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.48596875,"end":571.9922187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":575.28284375,"end":576.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":575.85659375,"end":593.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.0815937500001,"end":598.3003437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.7053437500001,"end":610.3490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":610.88909375,"end":659.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":659.8940937500001,"end":663.9778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":664.48409375,"end":676.1784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.80284375,"end":677.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":678.6084687500002,"end":679.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":680.65034375,"end":690.89346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.5347187500001,"end":692.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.57659375,"end":695.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":696.81659375,"end":703.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.95034375,"end":722.4328437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":722.4328437500001,"end":722.7703437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":722.7703437499999,"end":724.05284375}],"whisperx":[{"start":2.042,"end":9.383,"text":"好謝謝趙薇我們請主委可以OK要不要喝口水是是是委員長這位好我想我今天關心的是我們公共工程的一個安全還有安心的問題來一開始我首先先肯定針對公共工程的一個品質那我們工程會有辦一個金職獎那很多人都說這是工程界的奧斯卡獎"},{"start":31.688,"end":49.13,"text":"也因為我們進入第25屆今年我看到報紙媒體是說1月21號要在台北這邊來頒獎那頒獎的目的當然是為了提升公共工程品質改善生活環境促進廠商的良性競爭那你有四大獎項"},{"start":50.171,"end":64.799,"text":"那今年度呢我必須要很高興的跟主委跟政委說那我爭取的兩件在台中的那剛好都有獲獎一個呢南台中就是在我的選區台慶四號的十九甲砸到的工程"},{"start":65.319,"end":91.986,"text":"那在北台中就是呢衛生福利部豐原醫院他附設了一個厚禮綜合長照機構那兩個呢當然一個呢是所謂的橋樑閘道土木工程一個呢是一個長照的一個建築機構那都是呢我們公共工程的金職獎而在這個興建的過程裡面那我也很高興這個第一個工程一切順利然後呢所有的工程"},{"start":93.506,"end":110.451,"text":"範圍內都平安我們從業人員也都安全接下來包括這個衛生福利部等一下 衛生福利部的這個在上一頁 上一頁 上一頁上一頁 上一頁 上一頁衛生福利部在這個台中後里"},{"start":112.171,"end":135.773,"text":"接著還有一個所謂的鼠立醫院的一個後裏分院那我也期許可以盡快的來進行完工也能夠可以獲得再申請這個金職獎我要講這一些是說我們重大的公共工程能夠去爭取我們公共工程委員會的這個奧斯卡獎金職獎事實上每年都有但是不多那這個"},{"start":137.555,"end":151.308,"text":"獲獎的過程包括審查的過程也好像層層關卡要一關闖過一關也不容易但是我最終還是希望所有的獲獎回到它最終的是一個品質"},{"start":153.831,"end":167.631,"text":"專業還有他真正對我們國人民眾生活造成的一個好的一個環境好的一個工程是樂利民生的這個我想政委應該同意吧"},{"start":168.933,"end":184.244,"text":"除了工程的相關的專業人員跟從業人員的安全平安很重要金子講就是他有比較長的查核期經過出品跟複品全部都是外部的委員"},{"start":185.505,"end":209.26,"text":"沒有工程會本身的人員參與全部都是外部的委員所以這個專業性跟他獲獎的公正性是值得肯定的尤其是在最後賦品的時候主審的委員還要能夠舉出理由說服其他的賦品委員說為什麼是這一家得優良不是那一家所以整個是一關又一關是沒有錯那我相信這兩個工程應該實至名歸"},{"start":211.181,"end":231.737,"text":"是 那我只是一個建議我們既然已經是第25屆了那表示我們歷年來獲獎的公共工程無數那獲獎的公共工程我們有沒有把它集結成一個可以讓國人清楚了解這個金子獎的意義跟它的重要性的一個平台"},{"start":232.538,"end":250.255,"text":"我覺得這個是第一個讓國人對公共工程的品質還有對這個獎項的一個政府的信心信任他才可以安心這是第一個我給的建議這個我不知道有沒有做如果有會後可不可以給我一個報告"},{"start":251.776,"end":276.756,"text":"我為什麼會談到這個呢國人對於公共工程的一個要求跟信心信任才牽涉到國人使用公共工程裡面的安全性還有它的方便性舒適性等等任何的公共工程都是要有利於民眾的生活那平安最重要所以我覺得現在要跟你講我們這個工程有金子獎那公安的部分呢"},{"start":277.236,"end":294.289,"text":"因為我剛剛看到其他委員也要再談到這個公共工程公安問題台中市最近發生了兩件事一個叫北區的中央市場的改建工程鷹架倒塌一人受傷一個是我們台中榮總的工地鷹架也是倒塌"},{"start":295.61,"end":321.624,"text":"雖然沒有造成人員傷亡但是呢每一件只要見報見新聞之後大家都會對公共工程的這個公安的問題到底有沒有做好那主委 政委你可不可以跟我講說這公安的問題呢是這個勞動部的問題是他的職責跟我公共工程委會可能沒有相關但是政委我要跟你講有相關相關在哪裡呢 下一頁"},{"start":322.779,"end":351.228,"text":"我們去年12月2號三讀通過了職安法修法要保障公安我們舉雙手贊成也一定要做而且這一次是大修那這一次大修的修法重點呢在於其中一個強化營造工程的源頭防災還有呢預防公安強化營造工程的源頭防災公安的問題那這兩件事情公共工程委員會可以做什麼"},{"start":352.088,"end":367.287,"text":"主委我不知道你有沒有去看過 治安法的修法內容你有沒有看過 要不要看過啦我不知道公共工程委會的 各位團隊有沒有人看過我建議去看一下好不好因為這會牽涉到 公共工程裡面的一些細節"},{"start":368.869,"end":391.714,"text":"修法之後呢要求工程業主將營造工程交付規劃設計跟施工時應該依工程特性分析潛在危害還要什麼編制安全衛生圖說還要什麼規範還要什麼還要預算然後還要使施工者採取可以採取預防的作為"},{"start":392.915,"end":400.505,"text":"這個看起來好像跟你們沒有關係但是實質上如果你去探討一下你們公共工程在執行面務實面甚至那層層的分包之後"},{"start":405.742,"end":431.651,"text":"那個什麼叫做分析潛在危害什麼叫做編制安全衛生圖說這個東西我們公共工程委員會要不要跟勞動部進一步跨部會來協商一下什麼樣的一個標準什麼樣的一個門檻什麼樣的一個制式的範本圖說是可以讓大家有所依循的"},{"start":432.011,"end":455.575,"text":"好 這個委員的意見非常好因為最近我們剛好有同仁去日本去他們實際上的大營造廠商演習回來日本的公共工程它那個施工圖說是很詳細的很具體的不是只有書面的設計要求而已它是一張一張的圖說那你施工者 廠商你就一定要按照這個圖說比方說這裡畫 比方說"},{"start":458.976,"end":485.311,"text":"多少個鷹架多少個防護網等等非常清楚這個我們正是要學習的方法那我們希望說政府採購法通過之後我們這次強調說我們那個企業範本希望剛性化將來的施工規範能夠強制那我們會參著先進國家比方說哪些國家這種施工最安全最重視我們看過大概就日本 德國"},{"start":486.932,"end":497.603,"text":"這個我親身見你到日本看它有一個路口一個施工是很多人在做比方說指揮車輛什麼很多人而且很忙忙進忙出的在做當然成本高"},{"start":498.942,"end":518.254,"text":"我也看過其他有非洲國家一個工程可能幾個人在做旁邊圍了一堆人在看所以這個文化是不同的那當然是制度我們有改進跟精進的地方讓我們同意委員的要求那我們進一步修法之後能夠來學習相關的國家的施工的"},{"start":519.415,"end":537.77,"text":"規範或設計施工的圖說你每一個不管是大包分包次分包都有這個圖說都有這個SOP拿去施工從制度面來減少這個職安或者是這些職安公安的發生對那另外就是招標"},{"start":539.031,"end":552.664,"text":"的時候我們希望說你如果這些都做到了沒有一些過去沒有一些勞安職安的問題那我們可能你的分數會有加分的地方那你如果這個有這個職安相關的"},{"start":556.047,"end":574.484,"text":"公安的问题的话就算你以前得到金职奖是会取消金职奖的而且你根本没办法进入连报名金职奖第一关就淘汰掉了所以这个要请业者来注意但是因为它层层分包或者是不见得每个施工厂商都会那么"},{"start":575.385,"end":592.862,"text":"那麼乖 我就是要提醒政委原則性我同意政委剛剛所講的我們要學習人家好的地方安全的一個公安的要求包括在工程特性的分析 圖說還有規範等等都要細緻化但是第一個"},{"start":594.424,"end":609.938,"text":"業界有沒有這樣子的專業人士做得到做不到這第一個人的問題要先幫忙想誰可以來做這些事情第二個我們的要求的這些層層的要求裡面在我們現在食物面"},{"start":611.259,"end":625.195,"text":"營造商大小包商參差不齊規模大小又差異很大那我們又要怎麼樣的分級分類的來要求第三個剛剛你講到分包我們現在呢"},{"start":625.956,"end":654.375,"text":"公共工程裡面呢在這個職安法的修法裡面也有要求工程業主若將工程分包給多個施工者施工者應指定其中一個施工者來負整體工程安全衛生統合管理責任這一個呢文字是這樣條文文字是這樣寫實際上到底是如何運作跟指定這個都事關公共工程委員會要怎麼樣的讓所有"},{"start":655.596,"end":674.971,"text":"參與負責公共工程的推動、發包、興建到完工、驗收等等這每每各各很多細節都需要公共工程委員會可能要想清楚因為你的執行面要能夠執行就必須把這些細節下一個"},{"start":676.912,"end":695.517,"text":"具體 具體明確你跟勞動部各司其職這樣子才能夠真正的確保公安也才能夠做得到啦不然我們訂了一些執法規如果是業界做不到的 也沒用啦那反而是反其道而行"},{"start":696.877,"end":723.573,"text":"沒了我們這樣子的一個美意啦所以我現在是提醒政委我也希望公共工程委會的團隊職安法修法了請詳細去看相關的細節那怎麼樣的我們公共工程委會可以做什麼讓他這個職安法真正的能夠在實務面能夠落實在公共工程裡面在公共建設裡面可以真正的落實職安公安好不好好謝謝政委謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}