{"error":false,"id":["166807"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166807,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166807","日期":"2026-01-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-05T11:44:27+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-05T11:55:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b5888b636a9d743ea263011a53eea80ce16c8636dcd6d4218d99fb3dd3e97491ffa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐富癸","委員發言時間":"11:44:27 - 11:55:02","會議時間":"2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【1月5日及8日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.7815937500000003,"end":4.705343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.042843750000001,"end":5.8697187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.084093750000001,"end":21.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.816593750000003,"end":52.883468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.25471875,"end":62.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.43471875,"end":66.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.44659375,"end":68.44221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.52659375,"end":71.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.96909375,"end":73.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.15846875000001,"end":76.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.45784375000001,"end":78.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.12846875000001,"end":78.97221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.97221875000001,"end":88.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.05096875000001,"end":90.78471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.20659375000001,"end":94.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.68284375,"end":98.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.81721875000001,"end":104.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.06096875,"end":111.49034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.11471875000001,"end":115.23659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.19846875,"end":117.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.44284375000001,"end":122.37471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":122.49284375,"end":124.82159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.82159375,"end":126.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.98596875000001,"end":129.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.73221875000002,"end":129.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.91784375,"end":132.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.95159375,"end":130.00221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.66846875000002,"end":133.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.71471875,"end":134.86221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.35159375,"end":138.18659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.81096875,"end":140.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.97096875,"end":142.08471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.57409375,"end":148.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.08784375000002,"end":150.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.87659375,"end":163.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.46096875,"end":167.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.93721875,"end":169.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.65846875,"end":186.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.43221875,"end":191.05596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.19096875000002,"end":192.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.19909375,"end":197.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.42221875,"end":197.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.26596875,"end":204.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.78034375000001,"end":200.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.35346875000002,"end":216.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.41471875000002,"end":224.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.78909375,"end":225.53159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.34159375000002,"end":227.01659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.13471875000002,"end":232.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.38284375,"end":233.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.91846875000002,"end":240.60096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.10721875000002,"end":245.62971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.91659375,"end":247.31721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.85721875000002,"end":249.94971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.45159375000003,"end":309.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.29471875,"end":314.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.98596875000004,"end":315.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.04909375,"end":318.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.35659375,"end":320.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.74034375,"end":321.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.2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主委我們現在邁入2026年那我想這個新的年度當然我們期待新年新年要有新的氣象但是因為我們今年的總預算到目前為止都還沒有審議那我想這個對於屏東的發展我們真的是憂心忡忡那尤其主委過去也很關心屏東的許多的一些重要的一些交通建設還有一些產業發展的一個問題那我想主委面對這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":41.372,"end":65.86,"text":"那當然我們依目前預算法第54條的規定我們原本的一些預算的支應上面能夠照比較去年的一個規模但是很多的新興計畫完全沒辦法推動那像是我們屏東的微小南溫還有高屏二塊這些都攸關屏東重要的交通發展跟觀光的一個發展那主委面對這樣的困境主委能不能說明一下"},{"start":68.812,"end":70.575,"text":"北回之巔是新興計畫高頻二塊"},{"start":75.462,"end":104.302,"text":"應該核定了吧對但是預算都綁在今年的預算裡面好那因為相關規定是這樣如果新興計劃當然按照預算法規定是我們行政計劃是不能執行但有一個例外如果是立法院同意的話立法院同意的話是可以執行所以如果說雖然115年度總預算還沒有審查完畢那但是新興計劃如果立法院同意那麼執行還是可以執行"},{"start":105.522,"end":109.014,"text":"主委 那依目前這樣的政治氛圍你認為這個國民黨跟民眾黨會放行嗎"},{"start":112.599,"end":137.942,"text":"不過就是總預算我們幾乎沒有很少說有整個年度115年結束了預算還沒有審查還沒有覆違的你以前這麼多年來所以我認為115年的總預算總是要解決的總是要解決的這個解決就是說到底要怎麼編列那麼是不是總預算先覆為審查"},{"start":138.843,"end":149.876,"text":"那副委審查再來討論哪些預算要調整那這個才是我們行政機關也希望大院能夠來支持的"},{"start":151.079,"end":168.97,"text":"主委我想最重要的一個邏輯這個建設不分藍綠那尤其這個預算卡關之後會影響到我們整個這個交通也好治水也好甚至很多社會福利社會住宅的一些公共設施那這部分我想對於百姓都是切身之痛那請教主委"},{"start":169.83,"end":185.61,"text":"我們目前我們工程會有沒有統計 針對我們的新建工程 公共工程有多少案件會因為這樣的總預算沒有通過造成影響 甚至這個未來有可能會面臨這個要再追加金額的一些狀況 我們有沒有做這樣的一個分析統計"},{"start":186.491,"end":203.593,"text":"比較具體的就是有一個新興計畫是編載經濟部四年一千萬那是補助地方政府就地方管河川的治水計畫四年一千億四年一千億這個完全是要補助地方的那這個新興計畫如果沒有執行的話我們馬上會遇到困難"},{"start":204.494,"end":222.985,"text":"就是說有的縣市政府他的治水他這個已經排隊在這邊要等著要補助的那麼有的已經可能是前年度已經就是說有些計劃他有相關預算但不夠的部分是希望透過這個4年1000億的錢"},{"start":227.641,"end":249.617,"text":"來補助那現在這些錢都沒有辦法用所以有可能有些預算已經執行到一半了有些計畫已經執行到一半了就是本來打算用這個錢來協助的那就變成沒辦法動那整體來講影響各縣市政府的縣管河川縣市管河川的治水是影響非常大"},{"start":251.662,"end":276.088,"text":"主委剛剛講到重點我想過去這個尤其我們這個屏東也好過去我們都很重視這個治水的一個問題所以不管是過去的八年八百億六零六百億我們主委剛剛講的我們有很多的分期第二期第三期第四期的計畫都已經在進行當中尤其我們人民汛期五月份汛期就來臨了我們都很擔心這樣一個政治的一個惡鬥會造成我們這個百姓的一個災難"},{"start":277.368,"end":292.287,"text":"所以我們還是在這邊呼籲我們今年度的這種預算要趕快來審議那切入今天的主題主委剛剛大家都在討論這個你們的採購法的修正草案那當然我們這次總共的增修訂的增刪的部分大概有52個條文"},{"start":293.689,"end":318.024,"text":"那最重要的就是刪除首次公開招標要有三家投標的一個限制未來只要一家就可以決標那當然這個就會有正反兩面的一個論調那主委面對這樣的狀況你們有沒有相關的一個防備措施能不能再說明一下我們已經在預告 那麼修法之前也徵詢各各工協會或各地方政府的意見"},{"start":319.64,"end":341.702,"text":"贊成的也有那不贊成的也有那如果以我這樣來了解贊成的居多啦贊成的居多比方說地方政府採購人員或者是比較小的營造商那麼贊成的居多那反對的也有反對的比較偏那個大型的企業啦那總是我們會做參考那麼將來"},{"start":343.283,"end":358.011,"text":"那透過行政院這個審議之後會報大院來一併審查那當然我們有些配套措施這個配套措施就是每個機關那預算通過之後要限期就要來公告那對外來說明那"},{"start":360.652,"end":382.467,"text":"等標期也要拉長那麼相關的評選等等都有配套措施那主要是說這個87年通過的採購法沿用以前幾十年前的這個規定那以防弊為主那這裡面呢這個資訊的透明化跟通路已經"},{"start":383.519,"end":401.268,"text":"差太多了我們現在是115年所有的政府採購都在電子採購網上面都公告了領標都不用本人去領投標也都不用公司派人去投標那公告的方式也都很清楚資訊這麼流通所以雖然我們把"},{"start":402.308,"end":418.412,"text":"三家才能夠開標改成一家但是這樣反而有助於這個更熱烈的參與我是判斷真正一家決標的情形不一定會增加反而會減少"},{"start":421.65,"end":449.058,"text":"主委那我看以我們釣魚的資料當然我們比較擔心是過去公共工程這個流標狀況非常的嚴重那像我們中央部門來講勞動部國防部這個都高達兩三成還有經濟部那我想這部分我們未來當然是期待這樣一個修法之後能夠能讓我們的這個投標或是這個招標的部分能夠更順利但是當然我們也是要求未來的公共工程的品質的兼顧的部分應該要強化"},{"start":450.498,"end":479.119,"text":"那我想去年我也特別有請教這個主委有關於這個土質廠的問題那果不然這兩三個月真的狀況非常的嚴重包含我們這個去年諮詢的時候土方的處理價格從三四倍的起漲到最近已經調漲到甚至到高達十五倍很恐怖的 主委那面對這個困境主委這邊有沒有什麼樣的進一步的一個處理的一個機制"},{"start":481.006,"end":497.079,"text":"當然土石方的管制是屬內政部的業務當然也是我政委的部分督導的那這裡牽涉到土地的分區使用的許可包括農業用地或山坡地等等那也包括這個"},{"start":498.94,"end":517.909,"text":"建造的申請等等是要跨部會的協商那我們最近也在討論我們希望整合各部會那麼來整理出一套有效去化的方法那麼不至於亂到但是要實務比較務實的來解決這個問題但畢竟這個是"},{"start":522.251,"end":548.148,"text":"銀件土石方他並不是比方說化工廠的廢棄物也不是硫酸什麼這些酸液的廢棄物那這些土石方事實上可以再利用的那到底用什麼方法來解決我想我們會整合各部會提出一個比較務實的方法那當然啦也需要各部會不要本移不要本位主義然後呢這個把這個問題就沒辦法解決"},{"start":550.236,"end":572.67,"text":"主委我想這個真的要列入一個很重要的一個課題尤其我們目前也接到很多的澄清案件包含很多的這個公共工程標不出去因為就是這個土方去化的問題但是這裡面我們呼籲這些業者 清印業者或者是處理業者那麼也不要這個隨便這個抵制拉抬"},{"start":574.128,"end":593.545,"text":"當然當然但是我們現在發現就是說上有政策下有對策有的就不給你賺公房也不給你賺有地方賺的地方都不給你賺另外就是說像這個建造的申請實照審查還有土方的區域基本上屬於地方政府應該負起的責任每個縣市政府"},{"start":594.065,"end":612.825,"text":"你至少要公辦的土質廠那有公辦的戰事廠公辦的企劃計劃每個縣市政府都要這樣處理那至於內政部他大概是管一個政策所以縣市政府才是重要的縣市政府你不能說你沒有設置土質廠這些土資 土石都亂到沒辦法"},{"start":613.345,"end":633.581,"text":"然後來怪中央政府說政策太嚴苛或政策是有問題基本上我們回到地方自治事項地方政府的首長他本身就要建置地方這些土石方廢棄物的處理的計畫跟處理的政策我想這個才是正辦好所以我們還是期待趕快這個找出對策趕快來處理了好謝謝好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}