{"error":false,"id":["166810"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166810,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166810","日期":"2026-01-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-05T12:16:58+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-05T12:26:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:04","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b58702fc187613b38553011a53eea80ce16c8636dcd6d4218d921e6da3feca83ab35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"12:16:58 - 12:26:02","會議時間":"2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【1月5日及8日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.6634687500000003,"end":4.82346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.24534375,"end":5.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.52721875,"end":10.544093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.544093750000002,"end":10.712843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.712843750000001,"end":10.847843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.847843750000003,"end":11.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.25284375,"end":43.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":44.10846875,"end":48.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":48.563468750000006,"end":53.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":53.06909375,"end":53.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":54.689093750000005,"end":57.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":57.304718750000006,"end":61.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":61.540343750000005,"end":65.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":65.91096875000001,"end":67.21034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":67.24409375,"end":70.56846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.19721875,"end":81.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":82.11096875000001,"end":83.02221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.51159375,"end":85.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":85.26659375,"end":99.05346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.47284375000001,"end":88.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.59096875,"end":88.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.60784375,"end":88.65846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.65846875000001,"end":88.67534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.67534375000001,"end":88.69221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.69221875000001,"end":88.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.77659375,"end":88.84409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.69596875,"end":91.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.69909375,"end":102.34409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.61409375000001,"end":111.84471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.13159375000001,"end":115.11846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.64159375000001,"end":116.50221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.00846875,"end":117.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.09284375000001,"end":119.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":120.68721875000001,"end":122.47596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.16346875,"end":124.50096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.04096875,"end":125.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":126.13784375,"end":140.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.56596875,"end":151.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.23096875000002,"end":182.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.87159375000002,"end":205.04534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":205.48409375,"end":234.28971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":234.72846875000002,"end":244.70159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.14159375000003,"end":237.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.22909375,"end":244.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.70159375000003,"end":244.71846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.34284375000001,"end":278.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.08846875,"end":253.64534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.87784375,"end":280.42596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.61159375,"end":284.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.43846875,"end":282.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.30721875,"end":296.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.94659375000003,"end":309.18096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.99096875000004,"end":310.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.98659375,"end":313.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.27721875000003,"end":318.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.03596875,"end":321.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.58409375,"end":329.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":329.56596875,"end":361.61159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.05034375,"end":364.41284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.32409375000003,"end":374.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.82471875000005,"end":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一樣麻煩邀請我們的陳主委陳主委請委員長主委午安先跟您請教一下地方的事情我們現在新北市的基隆捷運去年經過行政院應該前年經過行政院核定地方政府去年有送基本設計的審議到交通部了"},{"start":29.321,"end":52.255,"text":"那交通部也在去年底的時候完成了審議那目前已經是轉到工程會了我不知道主委知道這件事情那我想在這邊請教一下後續我們工程會審議的可能相關的一些規劃可以讓我們的民眾知道如果有進到工程會工程會會安排基本設計審查的委員是 那麼就會這個"},{"start":55.617,"end":81.494,"text":"這個進行基本設計的審查那我們現在的做法就是說在基本設計審查到一段落之後會到地方去做現勘是那麼委員你會到地方去那麼到時候呢就會邀請地方關心的委員來參加那能不能大概抓一個時間當然我知道審查過程中審查不代表叫做核備嘛一定有審查的項目嘛那我們大概的流程大概會是怎麼樣那時間性可以讓大家知道一下嗎"},{"start":82.145,"end":111.036,"text":"他主要是審議他的基本設計的工法是否合理尤其是預算那單價是否合理那這些中整之後會作為一個結論那麼再回到交通部他去辦理那以過去的經驗來講的話那大概這個流程在我們中順利的話地方繳交的一些資料跟報告都是符合規範的話那我們工程會大概可以在過去的經驗大概多久以內的時間可以審訊"},{"start":112.717,"end":121.294,"text":"就看案大小 沒有禁訴來辦理那還是業務單位可以補充一下嗎禁訴處來說明一下"},{"start":125.303,"end":149.149,"text":"委員好 金融捷運這一個案子我們在簽程中找委員那通常我們找了委員以後呢到現場會有大概有半個一個月的時間然後請業務地方政府做修正然後大概地方政府如果快的話大概又會半個月會送達我們審議過後大概total的時間大概一個半月"},{"start":151.309,"end":174.665,"text":"好以上謝謝那就再麻煩我們的業務單位再多多的協助地方政府如果說有缺失的部分再麻煩多給一些指導以上謝謝那再跟主委請教一下有關採購法的部分那我在應該是去年的時候也有提到就是我們公家工程如果說得標的廠商那他可能有些財務的問題那其實我們現在的機制有一個機制叫做監管"},{"start":175.725,"end":204.364,"text":"這個監管的一個制度嘛對不對那就是確定下游的一些廠商在施作的時候那他是可以可能這個透過這個機制他們能夠繼續拿到錢然後繼續把工程來完成那之前遇到一個問題就是說得標的廠商他有訴訟的關係那被其他的債權人去追討然後有一個支付命令了那導致說支付命令的一個法律未接高於我們的監管契約那就變成說"},{"start":205.605,"end":233.84,"text":"下游的廠商如果他繼續做的話那他就拿不到錢因為我們發報單位一定是先這個支付命令優先的話錢就會先到這個債權人身上去那可能就會導致我們公共工程的一個延宕甚至導致於我們下報的廠商他拿不到他應付的款項那這樣子的部分之前好像我們同仁有提到說有預計要修法要來改善這個問題那相信大家也可能有正視到這個問題那可不可以說明一下目前的狀況"},{"start":235.235,"end":250.009,"text":"基本上這次修法有納入就是分包商跟次分包商在這種情形之下那麼他會強制是優先債權那我詳細情形請副主委來跟您說好 謝謝跟委員報告就是說現行當然有一個監督付款的機制"},{"start":250.549,"end":280.029,"text":"但監督護管的機制是在沒有法院的命令介入以前有效如果有法院的執行命令進來因為他優先嘛我們沒有優先權所以這次我們是仿照海珊瓦的規定就是說可能這些廠商對於這個公共工程的可以完成他有特別的付出所以他只要經過一個這個類似公證或認證然後讓機關核備那他將來這個債權會得到保障所以只要機關核備就可以不一定要送到工程會來"},{"start":280.889,"end":308.509,"text":"不用送到工程會但是它可能要經過認證或者是公證那機關它有一個等於是一個揭示的一個效果不會臨時找一個自在假在全進來所以原則上它是透過這樣的一個機制保障它可以領到工程會讓這工程繼續往下走好 那謝謝那這個部分就我們想說我們立法院也儘速來審議好了保障我們公共工程的品質速度還有廠商的權益那另外再請教一下剛剛很多人在討論這個三家廠商投票的事其實當然"},{"start":311.072,"end":328.947,"text":"我相信会有这样子的一个讨论一定是就诚如主委讲的现在的资讯比较公开透明的那我也认同这样的一个论述但是你一个调了之后它实际的效益我是觉得说它实际的效益或许没有那么的大但是我们要我也不是说反对而是说我们要"},{"start":329.768,"end":347.046,"text":"來做一些我們可能預想到它可能產生了一些後續的問題因為如果說我們現在如果說一家廠商一個標案三家廠商沒有達到一家廠商來標的話其實機關不太會擔心因為我們只要再開標一次就是說等標可能會有一點點的一些時間要去等待但既然有廠商來標的話原則上它下次也會來標這個問題比較大"},{"start":350.189,"end":364.205,"text":"那比較怕的是這個工程的一個工程的一個編列經費有沒有符合市場的一個標的那是一個問題那我現在要提到另外的問題是我們現在如果說只一家廠商就可以來開標的話那我們擔心的是"},{"start":365.836,"end":393.011,"text":"這個標案的一個資訊的揭露充不充分那我以這個大家最近討論的很多的國防部的這個案子來講這個裝潢公司來採購這個炸藥的一個案子你說程序合法嗎我相信程序一定合法那個同仁怎麼可能做違法的事情但是這件事情合不合理那也就是說我們要得到得到要投標的時候我們必須要拿到原廠的一個授權對不對以這個標案來講的話必須要拿到原廠的授權它有一些門檻"},{"start":394.051,"end":408.746,"text":"那當我這個標案有門檻的時候我的採購機關他有沒有足夠的時間讓所有有意願來投標的廠商都有時間去處理這些前置作業跟門檻我覺得這是我後續會去擔心的"},{"start":409.266,"end":439.046,"text":"那就變成說如果說我以後有一個標案的時候大家擔心的時候你會不會跟某一家廠商講好了你先去準備前置的作業然後等到我一開標等標期我也不給你太長我就直接絕標了我們會擔心會有這樣後續的逼併所以我知道在一些很大的一些工程比如說剛剛講的捷運的工程都會有一些公開閱覽的制度讓所有有意願的廠商都有機會知道說這個標案要標什麼那我要準備什麼東西等到開標的時候大家公平競爭一起來投標但是當我們把這三家廠商的"},{"start":441.288,"end":455.343,"text":"這個規定拿掉之後這一家的時候那我就會擔心我剛剛講這些弊病我們未來要怎麼樣子的去去防範無論是我們公開提前的公開閱讀或是等標期的一個合理化拉長這部分麻煩這個主委能不能說明一下"},{"start":456.183,"end":473.072,"text":"這也是我們修法裡面有的 比方說我們要求預算審完了之後 比方說專案政府總預算11月底要審訊那審完了之後 機關就必須在一定時間之內對外來說明 對外來公告那大家就知道你這個機關有這筆預算了"},{"start":475.573,"end":499.539,"text":"要什麼時候要來採購那採購的時候那當然現在都登記在政府電子採購網上面那麼都會知道嘛那等標期那麼也要求比較長所以這個配套措施呢都已經有考慮到資訊對 尤其是一些特殊的採購我覺得我們工程會一定要去給機關一些約束啦就是特殊的採購剛剛講的也需要廠商要有前置作業"},{"start":500.7,"end":518.062,"text":"多久的前置作業是合理的那你就要給多久然後再給一些比較保守的空間讓這些廠商都去有時間去準備那才有一個公平競爭的環境等標期很重要我們也曾經看過比方說大的案它是跟國外廠商合作來投標但是那個"},{"start":519.872,"end":544.569,"text":"計畫是英文當翻譯要花一點時間所以如果這個等標期很短可能有人事先就知道這個案他已經準備好了那你如果說等標期很短他光把那個整個設計翻譯成中文就時間就不夠所以這個等標期要夠長這個我們工程會會做適當的要求好那麻煩謝謝主委謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}