{"error":false,"id":["166811"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166811,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166811","日期":"2026-01-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-23-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-05T12:26:15+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-05T12:35:13+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8c294bbfbc570b583bf8e0619e9b30a63011a53eea80ce160f44abb379efbafa74376f4625cb93f75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:26:15 - 12:35:13","會議時間":"2026-01-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員、交通部、國防部、法務部、司法院、勞動部及行政院主計總處就「公告修正《政府採購法》，以求精進政府採購效率、提高重大工程進度品質、堵絕惡質廠商投標可能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查(一)委員黃捷等17人擬具「政府採購法增訂第十七條之一條文草案」案、(二)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「政府採購法第八十七條、第九十四條及第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員賴士葆等20人、(五)委員陳培瑜等18人及(六)委員賴瑞隆等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十四條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「政府採購法第九十四條及第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員萬美玲等21人、(九)委員游顥等23人、(十)委員羅廷瑋等16人、(十一)委員林倩綺等24人、(十二)台灣民眾黨黨團、(十三)委員馬文君等16人、(十四)委員羅智強等17人、(十五)委員翁曉玲等17人及(十六)委員黃健豪等18人分別擬具「政府採購法第九十八條條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員許智傑等17人擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條、第一百零二條及第一百零三條條文修正草案」案、(十八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「政府採購法第一百零一條條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等20人及(二十)委員魯明哲等16人分別擬具「政府採購法第一百零三條條文修正草案」案。\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】\n【1月5日及8日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.61284375,"end":5.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.6334687500000005,"end":6.342218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":10.93221875,"end":11.57346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.77596875,"end":11.978468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.24846875,"end":13.007843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.547843750000002,"end":24.53346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.719093750000003,"end":33.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.62909375,"end":34.72596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.962218750000005,"end":35.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.67096875,"end":44.867843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.188468750000006,"end":112.26659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":112.78971875,"end":117.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.88596875,"end":117.91971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":117.97034375000001,"end":118.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.54409375,"end":119.50596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.28659375000001,"end":125.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":122.40846875000001,"end":123.85971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":125.86784375,"end":126.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":126.66096875000001,"end":129.69846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.98534375,"end":130.44096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":130.84596875,"end":132.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.65159375000002,"end":138.76034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":139.14846875,"end":139.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":140.76846875,"end":153.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.06284375,"end":148.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.47596875000002,"end":150.82596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.97784375,"end":151.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":153.98159375,"end":159.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":159.71909375,"end":163.98846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":164.54534375,"end":185.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.20596875,"end":176.61096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":185.85846875000001,"end":192.13596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.12409375000001,"end":187.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.14096875,"end":187.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":190.88721875000002,"end":214.51221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.59659375,"end":221.00909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.44784375,"end":231.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.40409375000002,"end":264.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.52096875,"end":281.72534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.89409375,"end":299.76471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.00096875,"end":301.70534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.61659375,"end":306.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.59909375,"end":315.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.39096875,"end":318.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.22159375,"end":320.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":321.07784375,"end":323.28846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.11534375,"end":329.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.00471875,"end":332.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.99159375000005,"end":338.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.88096875,"end":344.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":345.12471875,"end":346.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.55909375000005,"end":347.97659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.41534375000003,"end":350.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.14909375,"end":352.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.81971875000005,"end":353.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.69721875000005,"end":354.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.92909375000005,"end":356.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.79346875000005,"end":359.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":359.62034375,"end":366.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":366.82596875,"end":372.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":372.64784375000005,"end":381.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.69721875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那但是它影響所及第一個我們土方可以到的這個合法的這個土資場有限然後呢再加上就是因為這個新的制度很多你要符合現在國土署的標準的GPS的這個運送車它可能沒有這樣合格的標準"},{"start":58.172,"end":82.066,"text":"所以呢現在發生一個狀況就是有很多的土資廠都通知從今年1月1號開始他們暫停收容土方我想這你應該知道所以也引起了全省各地很多的工地停工那再加上他們的土方的處理那個價格暴增所以有的甚至暴增到10倍"},{"start":83.087,"end":111.743,"text":"那但是問題是說現在已經有陸陸續續的很多的土資廠的通知在他們沒有辦法符合相關規定之前他們是暫停收這個土方的那我想請問一下現在變成是全台就是有很多的工地因此而停工那我不曉得在我們公共工程的部分有沒有也受到影響或者您所了解這個狀況他有沒有一個辦法可以去做一個解決"},{"start":112.99,"end":137.567,"text":"基本上公共工程的部分比較少反正是建商的部分比較多很多不只是建商我知道只有民間的工地營造業民間營造業都受到影響這裡面有幾個問題就是各縣市政府他理應當他地方的這些清運清除業者或土地廠聯合抵制的時候他政府機關應該要有"},{"start":141.029,"end":163.847,"text":"他自己公辦的土資場或公辦的戰事場他要設法去戰事或區劃現在都很少就是各縣市政府很少因為這裡面問題很複雜所以當這些業者聯合抵制的時候的確造成一些困擾所以我在呼籲說業者並不是沒有任何空間能夠來收這些東西"},{"start":164.668,"end":187.554,"text":"不是零啦他還有空間只是價格問題所以我是呼籲這業者應該在這種情況之下應該來不要做這種聯合抵制的動作啦所以應該有多少就收多少那至於說這個裝GPS或現在不足的問題我剛才提過這裡牽涉到土地使用的許可"},{"start":188.974,"end":213.341,"text":"所以這個我們會整合各部位的意見來做改善也請工程會能夠做一個整合的意見我想這個除了土方之外包含的民間的工程還有當然希望是公共工程不要受影響因為時間關係我要趕快講就是我剛才也做了提案的說明那這次我們有關於政府採購法的"},{"start":215.562,"end":230.079,"text":"主要就是免除第一次一定要三家這個我沒有什麼太大的意見但是我長期在關心的就是我們很多政府的採購案長期以來為什麼有劣質的採購"},{"start":231.5,"end":253.255,"text":"就是因為我們這些被列為黑名單的這些廠商他們道高一尺 謀高一丈那當然你們這次修法去要阻止像這種就是今天我的A公司被你列為黑名單但是我用我的B公司 C公司 你們要防堵"},{"start":253.815,"end":277.053,"text":"但是問題來囉 現在問題是有很多 比如說我們在那個國防部的這個去一個茶葉公司去標那個電腦 這個電腦維修的案子男的被起訴了 結果他就找他的女的合夥人這女的當然由此一說是什麼可能是女朋友啦 或者女性的朋友他在找他的朋友來做這個負責人"},{"start":278.794,"end":299.303,"text":"繼續的去採購喔繼續去採購然後另外呢就是這些一再被列黑名單的這些廠商繼續可以來採購政府工程合理嗎我們曾經有幫你們計算過你知道最高被列黑名單的次數達到不是6次欸66次"},{"start":302.862,"end":328.628,"text":"你這是什麼意思啊 重考也不能重考那麼多次啊你已經被列為黑名單好幾十次 最高到66次然後只要他時間屆滿 他又是好漢一條啦要來繼續來標你政府的功臣 合理嗎完全不合理對不對還有國防部 最扯中科院都列為黑名單拒網名單喔拒絕網來的黑名單"},{"start":330.383,"end":356.356,"text":"國防部照樣給他標你以為這是很扯嗎 沒有 沒有喔沒有最扯 只有更扯竟然呢 他不但繼續讓他標連他被起訴他都不知道已經被起訴了 年終被起訴已經被中科院列為黑名單的廠商被起訴到了年末 國防部繼續把案子標給他"},{"start":358.9,"end":366.132,"text":"各位合理嗎我們的在我們眼皮子底下我們的政府採購可以這樣搞啊"},{"start":366.837,"end":388.362,"text":"我們也遵照委員在前兩個會期的要求提出政府採購法的修正草案那麼將這個公司或他代表人將來在成立的公司一併停權我看到你們這次有那第二個就是說有停權幾個案的我們這次把他停權時間要加計"},{"start":389.782,"end":401.289,"text":"不會說你同時停錢只是停個一部分而已我們是該停錢多久就把它加記起來我知道你們現在把它加記說到五年最高五年不同機關採購會不同時間來停權但是仍然會出現我剛才講說這種多次被停權它照樣來採購"},{"start":414.336,"end":434.176,"text":"中科院他是行政法人他可以不受政府採購法的施用我知道可是你今天不要跟我講行政法人嘛中科院跟國防部的關係誰不知道對不對然後還會發生這樣的狀況大家就是沒有辦法接受所以我仍然希望你們能夠支持我們也要評估對行政法人比較"},{"start":435.237,"end":456.8,"text":"什麼樣的行政法人可以不適用什麼樣行政法人他必須要適用或者是按照政府採購法的精神他應該有一些採購的準則這個我們會來精進這個其實我們是未來不要講行政法人行政法人就不需要遵守這個採購法你行政法人用的不是也是這個民脂民膏嗎"},{"start":457.421,"end":475.073,"text":"他也是百分之百是國防部的錢沒有錯啊也是完全是國防部的預算所以這一點我是支持但是基本上我這邊所提出來的三政條款我真的覺得要有一個次數你達到這個次數你就要永久除名不能再給他有重考的機會對不對合理吧"},{"start":483.678,"end":501.908,"text":"我們事實上有很認真的去研議這個問題那麼也在跟很多專業團體去討論通常一般來講是法律界比較認為說這種有點類似像有點像是判死刑的因為公司畢竟是人在"},{"start":503.129,"end":519.757,"text":"我們廢死到這種地步啊不是 因為公司的經營主體會變更啦他跟一般自然不大一樣就像現在上市公司他可能這一次是一個經營團然後下次會變因為我時間到了我意思說不能讓他重考到這種地步我說已經被列黑名單66次他接下來過兩年好漢一條繼續來飆你覺得我們社會觀感如何納稅人能夠接受嗎你們能接受我們沒有辦法接受啦好不好"},{"start":533.208,"end":534.894,"text":"好 這個還是希望你們能夠去檢討 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}