{"error":false,"id":["166871"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166871,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166871","日期":"2026-01-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-22-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-07T09:58:06+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-07T10:12:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8a4de0f3676b468f2347490dd2fbf62f01bb1e1b9e929a613ec197a1c72cb6c41053e709b707af575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"09:58:06 - 10:12:46","會議時間":"2026-01-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員陳雪生等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員陳雪生等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十八條條文修正草案」案。\n四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第七條及第八條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第五條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員許宇甄等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員萬美玲等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員黃建賓等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員高金素梅等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員郭昱晴等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.792843750000003,"end":15.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.484718750000003,"end":12.501593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.51846875,"end":12.872843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.80034375,"end":18.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":18.99846875,"end":20.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.719718750000002,"end":24.989093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.15784375,"end":26.085968750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.65971875,"end":47.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.19471875,"end":32.24534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":48.20909375,"end":50.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":50.62221875,"end":91.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":53.406593750000006,"end":53.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.50971875,"end":68.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.82909375,"end":77.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.52284375,"end":133.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.90659375000001,"end":120.92346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":121.12596875000001,"end":121.19346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.74909375000001,"end":130.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.84596875,"end":131.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.58409375000002,"end":141.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.29159375,"end":141.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.40971875,"end":143.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.21534375000002,"end":143.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":143.60346875000002,"end":180.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.74534375000002,"end":192.92909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.72721875000002,"end":189.26721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.38096875000002,"end":190.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.18221875,"end":203.54346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.59409375,"end":207.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":207.66096875000002,"end":241.42784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":241.96784375000001,"end":250.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":250.64159375000003,"end":276.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":277.32096875,"end":283.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.91534375000003,"end":281.38784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":282.78846875,"end":288.39096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":289.01534375,"end":291.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":291.61409375,"end":294.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":294.82034375,"end":296.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.98034375000003,"end":301.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.58721875000003,"end":317.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":318.05721875,"end":355.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":356.63346875,"end":365.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.70784375000005,"end":380.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.80721875,"end":393.42096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":393.42096875000004,"end":399.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.53409375,"end":455.79096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":454.64346875,"end":470.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":470.26971875000004,"end":481.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":474.92721875,"end":475.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":482.09909375,"end":498.95721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":488.37659375000004,"end":488.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.03409375,"end":493.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.23659375000005,"end":493.30409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":493.57409375000003,"end":493.99596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":498.95721875000004,"end":499.44659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.44659375000003,"end":509.65596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":499.49721875000006,"end":499.56471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":509.94284375,"end":515.0559687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":515.5790937500001,"end":518.1103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.07221875,"end":521.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":521.7553437500001,"end":523.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.56096875,"end":526.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","st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謝謝主席有請次長有請次長"},{"start":18.007,"end":47.47,"text":"委員好次長好謝謝今天特別安排這個偏鄉條例的一個詢答那事實上我們其實在2023年的時候那個時候我們在新聞媒體上看到教育部有表達說會在2024年啟動修法那現在是剛邁入2026年所以想要先請教一下次長就是關於這個修法"},{"start":48.31,"end":68.416,"text":"教育部的态度是怎么样我们其实每年都在开分区的会议每年我们也看到委员提供了很多版本事实上在提供版本之后不管是对师资或者对偏乡学校的一些补助或者条件等等我们其实都一直在透过执法行政措施等等来做精进好"},{"start":68.956,"end":91.503,"text":"那在修法上像委員提到的像有些場所像司馬庫斯那個建築分區其實那個我們也很認同但是我覺得修法有時候反而是反不及急那我們反而會去希望能夠協調地方政府譬如說他在結構安全上他得到一些證書或者是他的安全性都無虞的空間下我們當然會"},{"start":92.603,"end":120.872,"text":"用其他的方式我們會予以協助就是說也把它認定那這部分我想委員的建議我們修法當然是長久的那個制度的設計的考慮就像剛才跟好幾位委員回答事實上我們這幾年來投入大量的資源每年40億不但改善了偏鄉學校的基礎設施對於教師流動率的下降其實也有很顯著的跟一般的地區的教師流動率來比較來講那個偏鄉地區下降的那個幅度是相當大的"},{"start":121.272,"end":142.672,"text":"所以這個也是立了偏鄉條例之後給了資源之後在偏鄉裡面產生的一些改進當然還有很多問題我們透過分區會議來蒐集委員的意見我們也會來參註好 謝謝次長不論講修法緩不濟急還是說到底我們當初立這個法我們想要達成的目標"},{"start":144.173,"end":165.56,"text":"有沒有獲得改善我們不得而知但是我們確實看到很多的條文是形同虛設像大家最愛舉的這個例子也是現場教師很關切的就是一個只存在條文中的專聘教師這四個字真的很多人不理解"},{"start":166.3,"end":190.837,"text":"那我去看了一下文字他文字是提到了最主要的關鍵是由主管機關採公開甄選方式可以禁用代理教師或以契約的專聘教師那麼他的母法裡面也沒有規定說一定要有教師證但是他的聘任辦法有提到有規定要合格教師的資格"},{"start":191.417,"end":206.33,"text":"那這個到底重不重要他們也覺得蠻重要為什麼因為我們看到專聘教師他除了要有合格教師證現分發偏鄉學校他也有晉級制度有考積獎金"},{"start":207.771,"end":223.011,"text":"可以公費進修然後任滿六年可以參加專任教師甄選有加分這確實很好很多人看到這個他是有誘因的但是就是奇怪全台專聘教師的人數就是零"},{"start":223.732,"end":250.095,"text":"那这个零大家也都知道出在哪里就是县市主管机关他没有办公开甄选那你说这些代科老师喜不喜欢公开甄选喜欢因为他们也不喜欢到处奔波他们也喜欢集中考试所以我不太晓得说刚才次长您说了我们有更好的一个解决的方式不需要修法缓不济济那您认为这一条怎么改善"},{"start":250.717,"end":276.698,"text":"其实专聘教师在当年我们那时候都也是立法院在设计的时候其实就会有一些不同的看法坦白讲那现在专聘教师为什么这个制度比较没有在使用的原因是因为地方政府大量是那个正式的缺所以说在偏乡学校过去以代理教师为主的这个教师生态里面其实这几年是有一些改善的就是说他因为用你用正式缺的保障绝对比"},{"start":277.418,"end":295.948,"text":"那个用专聘教师他的这种两年两年这样子的一个制度会比较好其实我会提这个问题您看一下偏乡学士后学分班我们看数据来说话像以110年度来看报名的人数"},{"start":297.029,"end":315.297,"text":"跟正取的人數其實落差還是有的表示不是說隨便報名就隨便可以考上你甚至看到114年度最近的你可以看國立嘉義大學他開一班喔他其實被取是206人錄取50人喔"},{"start":318.18,"end":342.759,"text":"所以这个偏乡学授学分班他是公布应求的在小教的部分是更为明显的可是我们来看现行的时候他有所谓的全额补助三年内要至少在偏乡四学期那么他就要自费的话在同一个县市要满六学期然后待客呢年资还不算要代理教师所以"},{"start":343.419,"end":365.545,"text":"很多的老師他其實是很在意的並不是不在意的所以當這樣的時候我們作為一個教育的主管機關市長您還能夠說修法緩不濟急嗎我想這個有關那個師資培育的部分委員關心的部分我們是不是請那個市長來回答其實委員關心的我們也有待討論好不好"},{"start":367.066,"end":386.489,"text":"謝謝委員的關心,那也因為各位委員的關心,我們在今年度也開設了將近500個名額,那在小教的部分的確是呈現,還有將近900多人。我直接講,其實偏鄉教師他很在意的就是他已經在夠偏遠的地區服務,"},{"start":387.35,"end":405.75,"text":"他很在意能不能去进修能不能公费进修市长你应该明白我的意思所以我们现在有比较友善的方式譬如包括线上线上的课程有二分之一以上我就是要提其实我们都很了解线上对于一个老师的学习来讲"},{"start":406.391,"end":423.423,"text":"其實他不見得能夠有很好的吸收他還是希望能夠好好的去進修所以我覺得站在偏鄉教育品質的一個立場跟偏鄉教師的一個權益我還是希望說修正一下就是"},{"start":423.903,"end":452.009,"text":"不論自費他的就讀資格還是要跟補助生要對齊啊就是例如你說你願意去修在偏鄉三年服務滿四個月四個學期他就可以去或者是說很多的代課老師他其實他的年資如果不採記的話是不符現狀因為偏鄉的代課老師很多都是一個星期超過20節那你至少設一個樓地板面積讓他可以採記那次長"},{"start":452.489,"end":467.26,"text":"这个部分您觉得你愿意来去做修正吗当然可以来修正我想我们现在宗教班的部分其实就降了两个学期就是也是因为委员还有一些地方的反应所以我们也根据报名人数 录取人数跟需求我们有做一些"},{"start":468.141,"end":487.769,"text":"做一些条件的一些好那我还是希望拿到报告因为大家在这边听就是希望能够解决改善那像刚才您提到我一直长期关心的偏乡教育条例第12条我希望能够参考长照服务机构的一个许可及管理办法第16条"},{"start":488.709,"end":517.891,"text":"用安全结构我要跟市长讲您说的缓不及急这个我们会不我五年前就进入要帮忙要修法一直没办法我也去县政府我也跟局长他们说要帮忙五年了我今天早上打电话给他们他们说他们今天两度气温两度斯马库斯的孩子你可以看照片不少他们到现在都是黑学校"},{"start":519.527,"end":545.3,"text":"都是一个不合法的学校那我觉得一个不合法的学校如果有一天他们真的发生了什么事情我们教育部情何以堪我想委员可能有误解我想反不及己是说我们当然12条修法的这个方向我们是同意的是支持的但是就是说现在要解决现场目前的问题我们可以内政部今天好像也有代表过来对"},{"start":546.921,"end":566.481,"text":"也许有一些条文大家有意见但是有一些没有意见的条文形同句文的我其实都觉得可以修那最后我就是要提到偏乡九任奖金因为代理教师有了专辅老师有了社工也有了但是学校里头的教练啊护理师啊"},{"start":567.509,"end":584.444,"text":"真的情何以堪我真的是希望說如果我們能夠有一個法源的一個依據在偏鄉教育條約裡面我相信大家都很願意一同的來為這些偏鄉努力久任的這些教職教育人員"},{"start":585.405,"end":613.707,"text":"不是教職還包括教育人員其實護理是公有大家都是學校的教育人員那希望呢能夠一同的讓他們在那個地方好好的服務但是我最近接到很多陳情因為年底有一些縣市發公文他說滿8年的計算是到114年12月7號問題是很多校長的調動是7月31號到期那8月1號要調到其他的學校已經飛偏了"},{"start":614.207,"end":635.368,"text":"又或者是老師呢他65歲退休了就差那麼幾天幾個月就沒有辦法領到9任獎金當然我不贊成因為這個制度的設計是為了要9任像那種調動的你說要去追溯他的比例我不贊同因為我們就是希望他滿8年嘛但是像這種特殊狀況不可抗力的"},{"start":638.05,"end":653.317,"text":"那導致他無法差幾天 差幾個月他沒有辦法領到九任獎金我不曉得次長您的看法如何能不能夠去按年資領取部分比例的九任獎金這個可以來研究啦我們來研究好 謝謝特殊的個案我們來研究"},{"start":655.638,"end":670.28,"text":"那最後一個就是偏鄉教育條例的第19條有提到要編列預算辦理偏遠地區學校教育狀況調查研究然後每三年要辦理全國偏遠地區的教育會議那我就直接講"},{"start":671.561,"end":698.695,"text":"因為我要質詢我要調資料我調不到關於偏鄉的代理教室的數據這個應該就是沒有依照第19條去做這樣的調查所以我覺得這個部分如果我們連偏鄉學校的無證代理的比例人數都沒有辦法掌握我不曉得說我們偏鄉教育條例要怎麼樣去檢討做出符合我們要的教育政策"},{"start":699.375,"end":717.535,"text":"所以在這裡我還是希望說能夠每兩年定期辦理偏遠地區教育的狀況調查然後資料有學歷表現學習資源師資流動學生流動文化融入社區參與等等指標然後建立一個偏鄉教育的公開"},{"start":718.976,"end":735.718,"text":"以表版或推動偏鄉資料的開放研究計畫或者發展偏鄉教育的指標系統那我這個部分是我的訴求那我知道質詢時間已經不夠了那我希望這個就次長您簡單回答該不該做好"},{"start":736.058,"end":755.865,"text":"其實在偏鄉交易會議裡面我們不管是分區或者三年一度的會議裡面那個資料都會在開會裡面來呈現那有些沒有公開的這個沒有在儀表板裡面特別去標註偏鄉一方面也是擔心說這個會有一些標籤的問題就是說我們希望但是至少我要質詢我就要不到資料"},{"start":756.758,"end":778.078,"text":"可以可以要到我们刚才包括那个统计处的那个我们刚才提到那没有关系就给我一个书面报告那我还是要最后做结论就是我长期强调偏乡教育真的根本之道就是在地人才在地培育在地长期留用我真的我真的这是我的"},{"start":779.179,"end":807.404,"text":"我們現在會往這個方向來做真的需要這樣子那我真的很希望就是我們可以新增第六條之一之類的就是跟地方的大學設一個偏鄉在地師資養成班優先的錄取在地青年結合在地的實習就業的留任保證我希望我們偏鄉不是只有讓老師來而是自己培養出來我覺得這才是根本之道也是當年"},{"start":808.064,"end":832.687,"text":"要開始推動偏鄉教育條例當時我還是一個偏鄉的老師校長我當年就是一直這樣訴求我認為要這樣子做這個偏鄉教育缺乏老師的困境才有辦法解決好不好謝謝委員的建議其實現在屏東大學那邊也有這樣的專班謝謝那個是我很高興的那個也是我爭取的但是我是希望說能夠全面來做"},{"start":834.088,"end":850.361,"text":"那因為最近中央總預算還在卡關那財化法也卡關我是代替很多縣市政府學校在問就是三張EQ啊還有有機食材這些那學校你們有沒有掌握到各地學校的狀況"},{"start":851.581,"end":880.361,"text":"细节我请那个署长我们其实是已经都跟地方有谈过了大概也从他们预算里面看出有些县市的编列的状况那么也在协助地方的相关的单位里面跟地方政府要求那还是说明一下因为很多学校就是有点紧张简单的讲我们会去用114年的预算做对照如果有差额的部分我们会新闻给他那个编列数请他们做垫付好谢谢谢谢市长署长谢谢主席"},{"start":881.567,"end":882.396,"text":"谢谢武力华"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}