{"error":false,"id":["166910"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166910,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166910","日期":"2026-01-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-36,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,26],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-07T11:35:06+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-07T11:45:11+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8a4de0f3676b468f87694c40252e0eec91c86f75780029905aa3b5816bd951ef0a92cda2594195eb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"11:35:06 - 11:45:11","會議時間":"2026-01-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部組織法第二條、第五條及第八條條文修正草案」案等10案。\n二、併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部兒少及家庭支持署組織法草案」案等7案。\n三、併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部長期照顧及社會發展署組織法草案」案等6案。\n四、併案審查行政院函請審議「衛生福利部中央健康保險署組織法第二條條文修正草案」案等5案。\n五、併案審查行政院函請審議「國家醫療科技評估中心設置條例草案」案等4案。\n六、併案審查行政院函請審議「國家中醫研究院設置條例草案」案等10案。\n【詳見議事日程】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.047218750000001,"end":10.52721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.763468750000001,"end":11.016593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.438468750000002,"end":12.332843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.906593750000003,"end":15.859718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.14659375,"end":27.047843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.50346875,"end":48.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.81659375,"end":53.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.064718750000004,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.477218750000006,"end":61.540343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.860968750000005,"end":64.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.64534375000001,"end":66.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.04159375,"end":78.73596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.88784375,"end":80.45721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.08159375000001,"end":81.65534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.44846875,"end":82.98846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.52846875,"end":86.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.61221875000001,"end":93.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.45096875,"end":97.93971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.71596875,"end":101.77034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.77034375000001,"end":102.63096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.51284375,"end":107.50784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.04784375000001,"end":115.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.65409375,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.27409375,"end":123.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.82596875,"end":145.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.78034375000001,"end":146.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.40034375000002,"end":152.80034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.28971875000002,"end":168.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.56159375000001,"end":174.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":174.41721875000002,"end":186.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.59659375,"end":189.16596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.62159375000002,"end":193.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.41409375,"end":196.79346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.43471875,"end":201.63659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.15971875000002,"end":207.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.04909375000003,"end":218.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.42284375000003,"end":220.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.53659375,"end":224.09721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.65409375000002,"end":226.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.11784375000002,"end":230.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.55596875,"end":235.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.15034375000002,"end":235.60596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.02784375000002,"end":237.66471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.08659375000002,"end":239.85846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.06096875000003,"end":240.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.49534375000002,"end":242.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.74409375000002,"end":255.70409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.75471875000002,"end":269.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.44034375,"end":270.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":269.72721875,"end":269.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.63846875,"end":288.50909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.72846875,"end":320.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.68971875,"end":322.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.61346875000004,"end":329.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.35909375,"end":335.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.70846875,"end":338.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.96534375000005,"end":339.82596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":340.29846875000004,"end":341.31096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.56409375000004,"end":343.18409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.89284375,"end":347.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.30159375,"end":348.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.02721875000003,"end":369.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.46346875,"end":365.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":370.82534375,"end":374.13284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37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謝謝主席有請我們衛福部我們石崇良 石部長好 請石部長中央委員好部長 我就問你就好啦不要叫我這麼多人其實剛剛啊國民黨委員的那個質詢啊那都胡說八道"},{"start":19.209,"end":40.578,"text":"我不會說 除了蘇清泉委員講的因為他生了四個小孩所以我給他加冕一下不然 人口每一個國家都希望維持一個人口的穩定所以不說人口要維持一個替代率多少 2.1% 2.12.1從哪裡 台灣哪裡就已經低於2.1了從1983年 人口維持的替代率那個時候就已經低於2.1了"},{"start":48.888,"end":51.417,"text":"到馬英九的時候2010年的時候他說 啊 慘了"},{"start":54.127,"end":81.392,"text":"台灣少子化會國安危機這馬英九在2010年提出來然後 到了哪裡呢提出來這個口號以後啊 毫無對策啊是到了2018年啊蔡英文總統上來以後啊才制定了 請國安會訂定一個國家少子化的一個政策綱領這為大家說得對那政府一直去做但是呢 有沒有成效看不到"},{"start":82.492,"end":97.367,"text":"看不到 如果要講人口政策 你就問我 我很會講英文都沒有補 如果真的要有補我建議大大說 我衛福部長石崇良 現在宣佈你如果生小孩 我一個人給你一百萬看能不能增加一百萬人"},{"start":98.772,"end":103.797,"text":"你看看王正旭笑眉眉,他生兩個,我不是你生幾個啊?你生兩個,我告訴你,生幾個,那是合盤疑問的啦。你要生,你不要就不要生啦。你說什麼現在叫做生不如死,太生不如死。現在的社會經濟狀況都比過去還要好。以前你如果不生孩子,社會上會給你壓力。孩子生一生之後,有阿公阿嬤會幫你倒床。"},{"start":124.131,"end":128.916,"text":"以前多生一輩子,我們就多生一雙小孩,小孩就算了,像我們這樣小孩子,也沒有人管了啦我們在整個村子,大家說好了,你知道嗎?整個村子大家都生四個我們在上一輩的時候,還七個耶所以,社會越進步啦,人越獨立啦那尤其,以前墮胎,那是大件不重要的事情到最後,墮胎也合法化了"},{"start":147.795,"end":151.899,"text":"大家都越來越獨立了你現在要叫孩子生我看你們會制定什麼樣的一個政策我看是很困難啦但是呢我確實是少子化真的是一個國安的一個危機啦不然你人也越來越少啊我們長照對老大一直照顧那個本地都要照顧的啊但是生小孩這一代"},{"start":168.672,"end":173.473,"text":"你也不能逼啦 要怎麼制定法律叫大家要去生外來接觸的人連結婚也沒有結婚 對不對不要說小孩子啦可是沒有生小孩的人他也感受到沒有小孩對國家來長期的一個發展來講的話那確實是一個很大的一個危機啦這個 我不敢想跟你們說要用什麼保守啦但是啦 你確實是踏入一切 他也不可以生啦"},{"start":197.526,"end":200.749,"text":"越好好的之後,他不跟你生了,他覺得不跟你這樣,是一隻寵物,他也覺得很開心啊,不需要有那個負擔,不需要付那麼多責任,不需要生孩子,少子化有太多太多的一個因素了,尤其社會去做改變了,但是呢,政府都束手無策,這也不行。"},{"start":220.469,"end":223.732,"text":"我們很多政策都怕人家罵 站出來而已你知道嗎我們很多政策都是怕外界罵然後我們提出來真正有沒有用"},{"start":231.584,"end":245.455,"text":"你也知道 我也知道看數字就知道 都真的沒有用也還好有那些政策沒有那些政策的話 搞不好崩得會更快再想一下但是我還是要來就教幾個問題就是說國建署最新的統計很快兩位台灣人裡面 請我一位"},{"start":256.021,"end":260.482,"text":"體重都差不多超標的所以為什麼現在很多人在找那個有效的減肥的方法傳統的吃下去之後 哇 少吃都說快人少吃 多動 太慢了現在有瘦瘦症對不對但是啊我看到特別看到這個什麼叫猛健樂這個新藥因為衛福部要核准之後可以來做減肥之後市場簡直是殺紅了眼本期是比較擔心的就是說其實消費者的心態很簡單"},{"start":285.99,"end":291.354,"text":"他追求比較 呃 強效 安全 喔 雖然價錢比較貴擔保安他也要覺得有好就好啦可是呢 我們也發現很多 愛護部要特別去注意到的就是說好多的亂象 你像比如說團購 喔 吃團購 也有陷阱我看LINE也有啦 臉書也有啦 喔 盤商這裡喔 員工這裡喔這個價格來源是什麼 我們也不知道 這第一個第二個就是說 啊不然就整頓把它拆裝變零售 四季的料 喔 啊 就"},{"start":315.451,"end":325.739,"text":"就把單季的價錢壓低這個都有潛在的膽膽的風險另外最怕擔心的是境外的將進來的像譬如說我們中國那邊就縮小一點同樣的成分價格只有十分之一"},{"start":330.402,"end":338.631,"text":"我很擔心這個 我不知道部長你看到這樣的一個亂象 亂象問題是說要給糖尿病的人要應援 要不然大家覺得這好談呢我看很多醫生 大家都聊下去不曉得部長你的看法怎麼樣 有一點失序啦對 確實從整個銷售量的成長"},{"start":353.846,"end":368.285,"text":"過去這五年從一年不到十萬劑十萬針到去年已經超過一百萬確實我們看到這個量的增加太可怕所以有幾個事情我們會強化的第一個這個"},{"start":371.128,"end":386.953,"text":"這個是一個處方藥啦所以沒有拿到台灣的藥證那個就是偽藥 那個會重罰所以這個一定是從安全的角度第一個先切入沒有達到藥證在賣的像中國版的這個就是偽藥這個我們會重罰我們會來強化這個稽查"},{"start":390.894,"end":405.433,"text":"那第二個這個藥本身是醫師的處方要有醫師的處方才可以買所以不可以隨便亂賣所以團購也好或者是隨便到什麼地方就可以買得到那個都是違法的他一定要有"},{"start":406.614,"end":422.852,"text":"賣的人要有藥商的資格那麼要有買的人要有一絲的處方才可以所以我們會來強化這個管理所以博丁我要講的就是說這一個監管有一點慢半拍就像你講的市場確實已經失序了"},{"start":423.753,"end":435.098,"text":"這個真的要非常小心啦你醫療科技當然會進步但是如果你缺乏有效的監管的市場機制底下你上游開始走私啦經濟不知道啦中游到去排擠到整個病患的一個權益再到下游這個地方又有感染這樣的一個風險我特別特別的提醒衛護部這個部分真的要加把勁啦好不好好 我們會來加強管理"},{"start":448.504,"end":471.861,"text":"那另外今天我們整個衛福部我們今天在排審這個組織法裡面我倒有一個想法就是說你這個成立專責機構以後你預算跟跨部會的整合資源你要去有效的到位啦有效的一個到位啦你譬如說我們目前兒童跟少年相關的預算你現在GDP多少幾%2%而已你OECD的部門是說要幾%要6%所以這個部分"},{"start":476.544,"end":492.213,"text":"這個如果說你只是說多一個組織啊 只把既有的資源去重新分配我看這樣你也達不到效果啦你自己組織起來之後你如果沒有資源在相對的一個到位的話你達不到你想要的效果啦"},{"start":492.973,"end":507.081,"text":"還有大家在講的 我聽了好幾位委員在談到的 也是有點道理的就是說你這個組織裡面的位階 你等於三級機關那是不是承受得了那種高度的一個跨部位的協調的一個任務啊這個部分喔 特別特別要去注意啦我看我們這個兒少福利跟權益保障法裡面的規定裡面那個任務行為是保生保害 你知不知道"},{"start":518.408,"end":532.46,"text":"跨部會 跨院好多好多的地方我們確實是對於整個跨部會整個的問題跟人力的一個擴編這部分我們希望這個組織法我們來幫忙以後你們也同步要去做一個落實"},{"start":533.801,"end":551.507,"text":"跟委員報告確實這個人跟錢要同時到位啦所以我們有這個組織之後把它專責起來之後我們的人力也會希望增加啦不然那個預算就在膨大也要有人執行啦這幾年這個預算增加這麼多可是原額上也沒有什麼成長所以我們也趁這個機會"},{"start":553.288,"end":571.313,"text":"成立一個三級機關讓這個人力可以成長那同時更專業跟專責來做擬定對策計畫再去有計畫那就預算才能夠去爭取那才能夠去落實執行所以這個是會結合起來做當然跨"},{"start":572.333,"end":591.834,"text":"跨部會的協調永遠都是我們現在面臨到的問題都很複雜像食安問題也是跨部會的我們也不會因為只是一個食安署食藥署就沒有辦法做這些事情所以這個平台上我們有各種不同的機制跨部會的合作我們部裡面的協調的委員會"},{"start":595.077,"end":603.967,"text":"或者是在行政院層級的 也都有相對應的平台來做看報稅的事情好啦 換你支持 做出好成績啦 好不好 好 加油謝謝委員 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}