{"error":false,"id":["166929"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166929,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166929","日期":"2026-01-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-15-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-07T12:00:14+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-07T12:08:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8a4de0f3676b468f1bde1c36e8ba311f781827afd94ae333a2318d3e8cde50e9ce5da3b85f5c283a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"12:00:14 - 12:08:05","會議時間":"2026-01-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「國家安全法部分條文修正草案」案。二、繼續審查委員陳冠廷等21人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。三、繼續審查委員沈伯洋等17人擬具「國家安全法第十三條及第十三條之一條文修正草案」案。四、繼續審查委員陳冠廷等23人擬具「國家安全法第四條及第八條條文修正草案」案。五、繼續審查委員邱志偉等16人擬具「國家安全法第三條條文修正草案」案。六、繼續審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。七、繼續審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。八、繼續審查委員沈伯洋等20人擬具「國家安全法第三條、第八條及第十八條條文修正草案」案。九、繼續審查委員陳冠廷等19人擬具「國家安全法增訂第十九條之一條文草案」案。十、繼續審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條、第三條及第七條條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員陳冠廷等16人擬具「國家安全法第十三條條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員王美惠等17人擬具「國家安全法部分條文修正草案」案。十三、審查委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「國家安全法部分條文修正草案」案。十四、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國家安全法第七條、第八條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案。十五、審查委員邱志偉等19人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。十六、審查委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「國家安全法增訂第十三條之一條文草案」案。十七、審查委員王定宇等16人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。十八、審查委員吳沛憶等17人擬具「國家安全法第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。十九、審查委員郭昱晴等18人擬具「國家安全法部分條文修正草案」案。二十、審查委員李坤城等16人擬具「國家安全法第四條及第四條之一條文修正草案」案。二十一、審查委員徐富癸等20人擬具「國家安全法部分條文修正草案」案。二十二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等19人擬具「國家安全法第六條條文修正草案」案。二十三、審查委員李坤城等19人擬具「國家安全法部分條文修正草案」案。【詢答及處理；第一案、第二十一案及第二十二案如經復議則不予審查；第二十三案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查。】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.36409375,"end":4.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.00909375,"end":6.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.15159375,"end":11.320343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.320343750000003,"end":11.691593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.94471875,"end":19.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.80846875,"end":21.85034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.985343750000002,"end":28.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.76909375,"end":38.657843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.91096875,"end":57.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.54659375,"end":50.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.659093750000004,"end":58.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.30034375,"end":61.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.13096875,"end":68.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.18909375,"end":68.52659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":69.13409375,"end":81.94221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.12784375000001,"end":82.76909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":82.90409375,"end":84.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":84.57471875,"end":84.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.51971875000001,"end":91.45971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.79721875,"end":95.84721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.88096875000001,"end":98.39534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.46284375,"end":113.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.52784375,"end":127.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.31909375000001,"end":136.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":136.26284375,"end":142.33784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":142.74284375000002,"end":144.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.97034375,"end":146.42159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.47221875,"end":146.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.31596875,"end":150.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.85971875,"end":152.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.68221875,"end":154.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.67346875,"end":164.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.62971875000002,"end":168.73034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.16909375,"end":170.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.53596875000002,"end":174.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.02471875,"end":193.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.68846875,"end":199.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.61159375000003,"end":200.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.94471875000002,"end":204.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.33659375000002,"end":206.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.22659375,"end":208.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":209.29784375000003,"end":211.08659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.37346875,"end":217.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.15721875000003,"end":219.00096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.19096875000002,"end":218.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.28784375,"end":228.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":225.16034375,"end":227.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.38346875000002,"end":239.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.02784375000002,"end":236.51721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.14971875,"end":244.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.53346875000003,"end":241.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.97159375,"end":247.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.18221875,"end":247.19909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.78971875000002,"end":251.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.05534375000002,"end":249.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.29971875,"end":272.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.62034375000002,"end":252.00846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.68346875,"end":255.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":268.98471875,"end":269.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.48659375,"end":271.11096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":271.75221875,"end":272.51159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.69721875,"end":277.75971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":278.46846875,"end":280.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.83096875,"end":293.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":293.90909375,"end":299.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.68034375,"end":307.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":308.23596875000004,"end":315.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":316.45409375,"end":322.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.17034375000003,"end":325.56659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.44409375000004,"end":328.72221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00"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次長我先回答 請說明一下先回答最後一個問題因為目前草案裡面規範的都是行政處罰這個不會有這個問題OK 沒問題那你們敢不敢罰嘛不是 這個這個先問題就可以回答那接下來的"},{"start":232.873,"end":247.031,"text":"剛才委員所提到的這個都是四條一的這不是跑步的主則的條文沒有就請教你啊你們是行政院裡面最高法律的指導機關啊我想是不是由他們來回答比較好"},{"start":248.222,"end":255.286,"text":"那沒關係啦 因為我就說法律條文因為我們法律上的認知個人意見的表達當然總統說了什麼東西我最近很忙也沒時間繼續看那我的意思說在個人的意見的表達沒有客觀的一個具體的行為"},{"start":267.613,"end":292.556,"text":"這個是絕對是憲法保障的言論自由這個不能去規範的憲法保障言論自由現在變成要看顏色總統都可以講到2027會有完成武統台灣為目標這個意思武統喔他不是和平統一武統喔那就是戰爭嘛那我如果說明年會有戰爭這會造成軍心動盪外資撤資然後大家不敢來投資其實這對"},{"start":294.457,"end":314.513,"text":"對經濟是有影響如果這句話不是賴總統說而是我說我跟你講我現在可能已經被叫去問話等等的嘛所以沒有啦我可能言論免責如果是一個小老百姓說那可能就很嚴重了所以我覺得今天我們國家的一些法律設計上面其實充斥了很多不公平的地方甚至他辦誰變成是"},{"start":316.654,"end":325.063,"text":"這樣是很不應該啦這跟民進黨長期追求的言論自由其實有很大的不一樣那我想就提一個東西啦我跟櫃部有調一些資料"},{"start":327.222,"end":353.299,"text":"從112年到114年3月底你們那個檢察機關偵辦反滲透法我們過去啊2024年之前抓了一大堆里長婆婆媽媽抓了一堆人結果呢我們將近八成不起訴那已經起訴的目前已經有三件無罪定驗了也就是說過往我們在反滲透法等等這些案子總是搞一些不確定的法律概念在裡面"},{"start":354.159,"end":370.828,"text":"就不確定法律概念在裡面什麼人民會害怕我到底有沒有違法那執政者更可以自己自我解釋法律要怎麼辦所以啊這麼高八成不起訴起訴之後還一堆無罪的情況下我們這次的草案裡面有一大堆什麼"},{"start":371.408,"end":392.948,"text":"公開鼓吹戰爭 消滅我國主權等等的這些什麼叫做鼓吹 什麼叫做足以危害這些東西都是不確定的法律概念那以後是不是就 人民就任由執政者自行認定呢法律可以這樣不確定法律概念放在裡面嗎這是我對於這個草案的 我認為有非常嚴重的地方啦"},{"start":393.408,"end":416.851,"text":"那更不可以就我們不管將來任何政黨執政都不應該用法律來濫訴所以2024年之前超過將近八成的不起訴以及多大量的無罪這個就表示被濫用了反滲透法等等這些國安相關法律所以國家安全不能拿來作為政治攻擊的手段"},{"start":417.935,"end":439.802,"text":"我希望草案的任何一個法律定義必須明確這個是法治國的最基本原則以及是人民權益的最基本保障不可以搞了一堆什麼叫做鼓吹什麼叫做消滅我國主權我喊台灣國 我是台灣國的立委這有沒有消滅中華民國主權呢對不對 這也是一個問題嘛"},{"start":441.676,"end":460.01,"text":"然後那個八炯閩南人在唱歌裡面說叫解放軍趕快打過來那這有沒有鼓吹戰爭這都變不明確的法律概念我覺得不能這樣法律我痛恨背叛國家的人要嚴辦沒錯但是法律必須要必須要明確我只要求這個"},{"start":461.712,"end":471.126,"text":"嚴懲叛國者我百分之百支持強化國防百分之百支持但是不要有不明確法律概念這個會變成是執政者在修理人民的一個手段好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}