{"error":false,"id":["166939"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":166939,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/166939","日期":"2026-01-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-22-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-01-07T12:24:10+08:00","結束時間":"2026-01-07T12:36:38+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:28","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8a4de0f3676b468f11004cedbc1eadb201bb1e1b9e929a61a2318d3e8cde50e9e3cda55e1e93cba55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅廷瑋","委員發言時間":"12:24:10 - 12:36:38","會議時間":"2026-01-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員陳雪生等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員陳雪生等20人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十八條條文修正草案」案。\n四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第七條及第八條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第五條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員許宇甄等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員萬美玲等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員黃建賓等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員廖偉翔等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員高金素梅等17人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員郭昱晴等18人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十三、委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「偏遠地區學校教育發展條例第八條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.0772187500000001,"end":2.0897187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":3.03471875,"end":3.7772187500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.101593750000001,"end":45.002843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.32346875,"end":72.23909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.89721875000001,"end":75.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.90096875,"end":80.65971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.72721875,"end":89.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.01409375,"end":81.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.41784375,"end":97.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.78784375000001,"end":100.48784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.92659375000001,"end":155.29784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.31534375,"end":152.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.29784375,"end":155.36534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.43284375000002,"end":155.46659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.46659375000002,"end":206.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.96909375,"end":222.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.01971875,"end":207.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.16659375,"end":212.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.25346875000002,"end":228.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.02096875,"end":226.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":226.17284375000003,"end":226.25721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.18096875,"end":228.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.58596875,"end":229.24409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.24409375000002,"end":229.27784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.08784375000002,"end":230.12159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.12159375000002,"end":235.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.50471875000002,"end":235.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.55534375000002,"end":262.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.82534375,"end":236.07846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.15846875000003,"end":237.54659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.65159375000002,"end":241.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.15784375,"end":241.74846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.82534375,"end":274.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.99221875,"end":280.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":276.15659375,"end":277.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.47659375,"end":302.36346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.17159375,"end":288.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.53221875,"end":331.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.59096875,"end":337.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.19409375000004,"end":333.39659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.95721875000004,"end":338.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.59846875,"end":358.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.69221875,"end":368.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.37096875000003,"end":362.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.85096875000005,"end":368.91846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":368.91846875000005,"end":368.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":368.96909375,"end":386.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.57659375000003,"end":369.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":371.90534375000004,"end":372.31034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":374.50409375000004,"end":374.53784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.53346875,"end":376.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.10596875000005,"end":407.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.49909375000004,"end":426.22596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":407.68034375,"end":407.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.52971875000003,"end":440.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.78909375,"end":453.24284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":453.71534375000005,"end":454.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.14971875000003,"end":464.65034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.51096875,"end":475.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.83846875,"end":486.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.65534375000004,"end":487.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.00534375,"end":491.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.58721875000003,"end":515.6297187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":515.2078437499999,"end":516.54096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.54096875,"end":539.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":540.5203437499999,"end":548.73846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.8059687500001,"end":549.8859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":550.3247187500001,"end":553.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.7334687499999,"end":558.6609687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.11659375,"end":559.94346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":561.3272187499999,"end":563.9765937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.9765937500001,"end":570.11909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":564.75284375,"end":565.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.0984687499999,"end":567.7565937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":569.6128437500001,"end":570.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.11909375,"end":570.1528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.1528437500001,"end":570.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.25409375,"end":570.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":570.35534375,"end":595.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":570.4228437500001,"end":570.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.48284375,"end":591.8372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.0265937500001,"end":595.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":595.12784375,"end":606.5522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":595.22909375,"end":595.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.88534375,"end":611.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":609.5559687500001,"end":610.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.88471875,"end":614.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":614.26409375,"end":618.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.56284375,"end":625.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":625.36784375,"end":628.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":629.0972187500001,"end":632.77596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":633.5522187500001,"end":635.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.4422187499999,"end":639.7622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":640.0659687500001,"end":653.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.75284375,"end":646.2253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.3003437500001,"end":673.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":665.3953437499999,"end":665.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":667.2009687500001,"end":667.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":673.74846875,"end":677.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":677.7140937500001,"end":687.9909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":683.6709687500002,"end":690.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":689.35784375,"end":691.9734687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":691.9734687499999,"end":701.59221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":693.52596875,"end":694.3190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.86221875,"end":711.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":704.6297187499999,"end":707.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":711.44721875,"end":714.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":714.7547187499999,"end":717.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.9990937500002,"end":723.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.1840937500001,"end":739.3247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":728.7609687500001,"end":731.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.5659687500001,"end":734.8528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":740.50596875,"end":742.1765937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":742.90221875,"end":743.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.79659375,"end":745.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":748.99409375,"end":750.07409375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.59,"end":22.109,"text":"謝謝主席 有請次長好 有請次長羅永宇好好 次長好次長今天討論平原地區的這個相關條例啊你應該再熟悉不過啦因為當年這部專法能夠順利的推動立法林鄭是其中重要的推手之一"},{"start":22.89,"end":35.934,"text":"我想在這個發展條例三讀以前當時偏遠地區面臨的困境不管是學校的教師員額不足難聘還有流動率高缺乏專業的發展機會行政的負擔過重"},{"start":40.255,"end":60.725,"text":"優秀的教職人員長期服務和地方的政府教育資源不足當時正是為了扭轉這樣子的一個惡性循環所以才在106年11月三讀推定我們的偏遠地區學校教育發展的條例希望藉由這部專法能夠強化整個學校的教育措施"},{"start":61.445,"end":88.782,"text":"宽列经费弹性运用我们人事包括我们提高教师的福利措施等都是希望能够解决资源的一个落差首先我想先请问一下次长您从当年的立法委员走到了今年今天已经担任次长从立法到行政端如何总结这八年的偏向条例落实成效"},{"start":89.562,"end":117.365,"text":"从当初理想中的制度设计有没有执行过程有所谓的偏离实际的推动你觉得遇到的最大的关卡在哪里我想谢谢委员关心我想这个条例当时在成立的时候当然就是要解决偏乡老师比如说师资的部分他的培育的这个那个品质的问题还有流动率的问题那如果从流动率来看我们从教育部的"},{"start":118.745,"end":142.51,"text":"這個統計裡面我們從107年度當時的國小偏遠地區的老師的那個流動率是2.14%那現在是113學年度我們今年度是已經降到1.21%所以有相當的一個幅度2.14降到1.21那國中的部分在107年度開始實施偏鄉條例的時候是1.92%"},{"start":144.17,"end":166.3,"text":"那到113學年度已經降到1.36%也降了大概三成多一定多多少少會有幅度的進步因為它每年移住了四十幾個但我現在問的是您覺得困境呢一定會有困境吧我們當然就是因為偏鄉條例規定就是它要跟地方每三年要做一個檢討那平常會在地方召開分區的一些座談"},{"start":167.04,"end":173.424,"text":"有很多包括在立法院也很關心有很多委員提出有關偏鄉條例執行要落實的問題要編經費的問題不足的問題等等都透過這些會議來反映我們也會針對這些反映來做一些修整"},{"start":183.689,"end":211.552,"text":"那包括我们那个施培的方面当时也有提到说很多在偏乡的一些没有教师证他想要去考然后他不利于他进修可是他又想在偏乡所以我们在施培上也多了很多这个培育的一个管道甚至在这个地方也是遍地开发就是说尽量去设连屏东都有市长我这样讲其实偏乡学校的硬体设施这几年有明显的改善"},{"start":212.492,"end":227.942,"text":"這無用質疑可是我們現在要再講的是我們可以看到實際的狀況就是部分偏鄉學校的教師流動率居高不下就我掌握的資料過去幾學年專聘教師的聘任人數還是掛零"},{"start":230.165,"end":245.331,"text":"对吧对专聘教师是因为当时建议的时候本来是其实针对没有教师证可是后来我知道定执法的时候教授团体认为应该有教师证所以我想问一下说后来有教师证的这些本来用专聘他如果做专聘的话他不如"},{"start":245.771,"end":274.137,"text":"因为现在大量市缺我就考正式的所以我刚才跟委员解释说他其实如果是正式缺他一定会对他的流动率会降低我知道这第一个第二个就是说代理教师也会减少所以等于代理教师的比例事实上也有减少的一个现象我想动一法牵全身我们大家都知道所以专聘教师现在就是有教师证但是没有取得教征的一个教师大家都知道现在状况都挂零没有人"},{"start":275.077,"end":290.072,"text":"那您覺得有沒有考慮讓專業教師現在買一個年限以後給予正式的教室資格我想當時八年前在立法的時候當然是希望說我們在偏鄉的師資盡量能夠穩定所以會有不同的禁用管道跟方式"},{"start":290.552,"end":314.191,"text":"那当然专聘的设计其实也是其中之一那后来他被其他的制度比如说我们因为拉近了代理教室的一个聘任成本就是我们给他13.5个月然后地方政府或许会认为说那与其让他流动率聘代理教室让他流动率变高我就聘正式的所以我们这几年刚才署长也跟大家讲说其实一年大概"},{"start":315.392,"end":342.194,"text":"這幾年大概設置了大概兩萬個正式的缺四年兩萬所以這幾年其實對於這個正式缺其實對於偏鄉的那個原額編制不但提升而且呢它的這個正式的那個編制的那個比例也提高我要強調方法很多種啦你們一定也都會彙整啦但是要不要滾動式的修正當然都有滾動式我們希望要有更具體的一個方法出來因為目前"},{"start":342.794,"end":368.771,"text":"专聘教师挂铃这个部分的资料还是让我们能够有掌握到嘛所以我希望说教育部这个部分偏向教育的关键在于人钱可以解决设备的问题但是人的问题目前我们看到了有进步的空间委员你可能有误解啦你说专聘教师大概现在就是要有教师证嘛对不对那我有教师证我为什么要用专聘教师的制度去评论我就去参加教证我能够变正式就好了"},{"start":368.831,"end":383.756,"text":"但是我們剛剛說的居高不下他的流動率還是很高嘛能不能把人留下來這是問題所在啊剛才我提供的資料資格是怎麼樣有進步我都知道但是我們還是看到有一些問題部分的學校所以我剛有強調部分的學校這部分"},{"start":383.916,"end":400.354,"text":"还是希望能够给予高度的关心地方政府如果有因为他现场在地方政府我们补助譬如说很多有关偏乡条例给的补助给地方政府我觉得也可以请地方政府去落实有需要我们中央协助像委员在地方都知道"},{"start":400.954,"end":425.584,"text":"就是说我们只要跟我们讲的话不管是设施设备或者是其他的资源我们都会有些这个会后我再跟你讨论因为今天时间有限第二个要跟你讨论的是说这一次教师加急终点费的全面调整以后课后照顾还有寒暑假的学艺活动终点费我认为被忽略我想在这一次我们去年12月31日"},{"start":426.644,"end":450.438,"text":"我們為了回應整個教學現場的長期教師荒我們宣布了加級3000變4000兼任待課終點費全面調高20%並且追溯到2025的9月1日起對2024對不起那我想市長這些數字也代表了整個教育部正式承認過去13年國中小的導師加級8年高中導師加級的動漲不動"},{"start":455.583,"end":461.717,"text":"現象已經確實不合理也承認長期偏低所以教師現場脫節今天終於願意補上這一塊"},{"start":465.703,"end":486.76,"text":"雖然很晚但是我們還是總算跨出了但是我要講的是我要提醒這一次政策有一個明顯的缺角就是課後照顧班還有課後輔導的終點費目前一般課後以及代理代課的一個終點費已經全面調升但實際從基層反映的是課後照顧班課後輔導"},{"start":488.261,"end":510.953,"text":"卻沒有被納入這一波的調整怎麼辦你要怎麼看那個跟委員報告其實它是根據不同的辦法就是說我們代理代課的終點費算是一個辦法那那個客戶照顧是一個辦法那個知己的那個方式那個輔導也是就是說它不是一般的代理代課的終點費所以當然很多委員也有提到說這個部分要不要一併來調整那我想我們會來持續來根據這個反應來做調整您認為要不要調整"},{"start":516.876,"end":534.621,"text":"我認為可以做整體評估因為裡面有涉及到這一次的補助是地方中央各50%那如果要調整的話以現在裁判法之後中央的財力大概是要跟地方政府尋求共同合作是不是一起來面對客戶照顧的終點費這個要持續來聽了好不好"},{"start":540.964,"end":559.905,"text":"我们那个资金你知道法制我们一定是按照各种办法来配合终点费代理代客那不可能代理代客终点费叫说才艺的客户照顾者来允这个办理这个可能会有一些用法的问题那如果要调整的话我个人认为说要跟地方政府好好谈因为那都在地方政府"},{"start":561.38,"end":577.409,"text":"我想这部分我们一定要转达到教学现场的一个状况我想委员来自基层也知道希望你能够把这个纳入到讨论里面可以我想台中市教育产业工会也跟我们呈请有关儿童课后照顾班国高中的课后照顾班的终点费"},{"start":578.069,"end":606.294,"text":"应该原则上要比一般课后教学高20%左右但目前实务上并未同步调整导致做相似的工作的老师人员领到的却是较低的终点费这部分我也希望说我们应该纳入到一起讨论我想各县市办理国中小的一个暑假学艺就像你刚刚说的学艺的终点费也常出现终点费比一般的课后低这个部分我希望都能够纳入到而且再来我也要"},{"start":607.93,"end":632.588,"text":"把这些事情反映给你听就是我问教育局他说之前你有找他们一起来开会讨论说要追溯的部分地方中央各50%对吧教育局给我的回应是说当下的会议其实蛮多各县市都在反映要他们去承担这50%他们没办法接受但是那一场会议"},{"start":633.615,"end":654.782,"text":"搞得像是通知而不是討論啦所以我問他們這50%你有承認你有願意嗎他給我的回應是說他沒有啦我不知道你們的溝通到底是怎麼樣的落實那我想我們都希望能夠趕緊將這個政策落實但是怎麼樣能夠更圓融委員我想跟你報告啦就是說當時"},{"start":655.842,"end":673.235,"text":"二十多個縣市大家一起來談我們已經有提過說其實中央想要做這個政策想要幫忙調高導師費想要提高工作獎金想要提高終點費利益良善希望地方政府一起來做因為利益良善那財化法之後一百一十五年我們也切了四千一百六十五億給地方"},{"start":673.837,"end":701.254,"text":"那地方政府的首长更应该重视教育那如果教育单位不愿意来负担我觉得他可以反应但我们没有收到他的反应台中是我没有收到的反应我们收到的反应是新北双四的同意但是我要跟你讲说新北跟台北都赞成硕智9月1号而且赞成负担反应不只是新北啦我跟你讲如果今天财务法能够真正落实将所有的这些款项到地方"},{"start":701.954,"end":714.046,"text":"我认为地方就应该要有责任帮忙协助负担对吧可是到底现在卓荣泰行政院他的态度卓荣泰院长要不要去落实整个才化法"},{"start":714.847,"end":738.414,"text":"我覺得大家社會自有公平我們115年是按照原來通過的第一版的財化法所以我希望能夠看到真正落實財化法去執行那當然我也舉雙手同意如果真的所謂的財化法有落實預算撥給地方地方就應該要來幫忙協助部分負擔好不好台中也多了200多億我希望看到是真的有拿到謝謝"},{"start":740.56,"end":749.502,"text":"好謝謝羅廷瑋委員請行政官員回座現在請楊全"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}